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View Full Version : Killdrive just plain old sucks



sheepdip
11-05-2012, 01:39 PM
He has no answer to what other teams are doing with there coverages. Also when we put a good drive together early in game 3rd and 1 he calls 20 yard down field back shoulder throw to 4th wr ??? is he a moron ? Also backed up in our end 1st down he blows a down by trying a hail mary near the sideline, which is a typical low % call. How about get the first down or some positive yards. This guy does not surprise me as I have been saying this for years. He has no feel for the game and when to call plays. He has no dump off plays to backs its all down field passing and low % plays. How about some slants underneath some of the deep routes. Where are the rb screens. I thought our running was pretty good at points and figured we should have stayed with it.

Fewel- Dumb dumb, when you call a blitz and Ben and steelers recognize it and then they call an audible, dont you think maybe you call off the blitz ???? are you that stupid ??? I would have more respect for you if you called a blitz and didnt actually come and surprise them. Or maybe call a blitz but if they smell it or you show your cards and they see this maybe just cancel it.

This team might not be able to tackle and are lose with coverage or take bad angles but the coaching is just as bad, just think we should have easily won this.

Scoring Tds in the redzone we would have put this away but just like the dallas game we have some serious problems. Killdrive run the ball inside the 20 and design some new plays as the usual plays arent working.

Bench Diehl too !!!

giantscolombia
11-05-2012, 01:47 PM
hahaha its kinda funny because my grandfather who is not a football fan at all and does not watch football was watching the game with me.

He laughed and said this blue team looks like they have really bad coaching, they look unprepared and kinda lacking will.... it looks like they have no game planning.

its sad how a person that doesnt know a thing about football can diagnose the problem the giants have. i hope the fans are not the only ones seeing how atrocious play calling is getting....

bashful
11-05-2012, 01:49 PM
I agree KG is a total idiot has been always will be - BUT BLAME ELI - lol

giantsforce
11-05-2012, 01:56 PM
hahaha its kinda funny because my grandfather who is not a football fan at all and does not watch football was watching the game with me.

He laughed and said this blue team looks like they have really bad coaching, they look unprepared and kinda lacking will.... it looks like they have no game planning.

its sad how a person that doesnt know a thing about football can diagnose the problem the giants have. i hope the fans are not the only ones seeing how atrocious play calling is getting....I have great respect for your grandfather! Any person with half a brain, except the homers here, will tell you that our coaching sucks. If you watch the Giants for a while, you will come to the conclusion that either they do not have a game plan or the game plan is so predictable that any one with a very limited football knowledge will be able to figure it out. If you do not believe me, go watch the replay of all the games and look at the play calling inside the 30: the majority is run, run, pass. No wonder we cannot score inside the 20.

alentown pa
11-05-2012, 02:10 PM
If the OP is a giant fan, I hate giant fans

alentown pa
11-05-2012, 02:11 PM
worst thread ever, lame use of the word Killdrive, poor job understanding the game, I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.

YATittle1962
11-05-2012, 02:17 PM
Also when we put a good drive together early in game 3rd and 1 he calls 20 yard down field back shoulder throw to 4th wr ???

why why why why WHY!!!!!!!......do you people keep insisting that Gilbride decides who the ball goes to ?????

do you honestly believe that play was designed to go to Randle?

do you honestly believe this?

my goodness

Eliscruzzz
11-05-2012, 02:20 PM
lol this is a funny thread...it really made me laugh.

Morehead State
11-05-2012, 02:21 PM
why why why why WHY!!!!!!!......do you people keep insisting that Gilbride decides who the ball goes to ?????

do you honestly believe that play was designed to go to Randle?

do you honestly believe this?

my goodness
To quote Duane Thomas.........."Evidently"

njg85m
11-05-2012, 02:48 PM
Posts like this make me realize that a huge number of people here have very little concept of how the game actually works and/or have never played it at any level whatsoever.

The OC calls the play, that's it. It's up to the QB to audible, call a hot route, adjust protection, or do nothing, and then finally pass to who he thinks is open. Some of you people seem to think it goes like this:

KG: OK Eli now you must throw the ball when RR is at the 20 yard line no matter what
Eli: DURR OK BOSSA MAN SANKS A BUNCH DERP


:rolleyes:

YATittle1962
11-05-2012, 02:50 PM
Posts like this make me realize that a huge number of people here have very little concept of how the game actually works and/or have never played it at any level whatsoever.


this is absolutely the case

get used to it

Morehead State
11-05-2012, 02:51 PM
Posts like this make me realize that a huge number of people here have very little concept of how the game actually works and/or have never played it at any level whatsoever.

The OC calls the play, that's it. It's up to the QB to audible, call a hot route, adjust protection, or do nothing, and then finally pass to who he thinks is open. Some of you people seem to think it goes like this:

KG: OK Eli now you must throw the ball when RR is at the 20 yard line no matter what
Eli: DURR OK BOSSA MAN SANKS A BUNCH DERP


:rolleyes:
"DERP"?

gumby74
11-05-2012, 02:53 PM
this is absolutely the case

get used to it
but people would rather blame KG than our beloved QB.

CuseGirl
11-05-2012, 02:56 PM
Posts like this make me realize that a huge number of people here have very little concept of how the game actually works and/or have never played it at any level whatsoever.

The OC calls the play, that's it. It's up to the QB to audible, call a hot route, adjust protection, or do nothing, and then finally pass to who he thinks is open. Some of you people seem to think it goes like this:

KG: OK Eli now you must throw the ball when RR is at the 20 yard line no matter what
Eli: DURR OK BOSSA MAN SANKS A BUNCH DERP
:rolleyes:Obviously that's not the case. But if someone were to say "Eli isn't making the right decisions pre-snap", that person would get lambasted too. It's not right to blame everything on Gilbride, but I have a hard time accepting that Gilbride's calls in the redzone are not an issue. It always seems like on 3rd and short at mid-field, they're throwing deep and it wouldn't be much of an issue if Nicks wasn't banged up or if Randle/Bennett could run the correct route. But I feel like he makes calls that in some situations are just wrong.

And I will say, the shotgun draw just grates me.

GMENAGAIN
11-05-2012, 03:06 PM
Posts like this make me realize that a huge number of people here have very little concept of how the game actually works and/or have never played it at any level whatsoever.

The OC calls the play, that's it. It's up to the QB to audible, call a hot route, adjust protection, or do nothing, and then finally pass to who he thinks is open. Some of you people seem to think it goes like this:

KG: OK Eli now you must throw the ball when RR is at the 20 yard line no matter what
Eli: DURR OK BOSSA MAN SANKS A BUNCH DERP


:rolleyes:

Yes, and this particular OP's lack of football knowledge is well-documented on these boards . . ..

YATittle1962
11-05-2012, 03:06 PM
but people would rather blame KG than our beloved QB.

I think they both deserve a little blame for this one

among many others

time to real in the line and make sure the bait is still on the hook

njg85m
11-05-2012, 03:25 PM
Obviously that's not the case. But if someone were to say "Eli isn't making the right decisions pre-snap", that person would get lambasted too. It's not right to blame everything on Gilbride, but I have a hard time accepting that Gilbride's calls in the redzone are not an issue. It always seems like on 3rd and short at mid-field, they're throwing deep and it wouldn't be much of an issue if Nicks wasn't banged up or if Randle/Bennett could run the correct route. But I feel like he makes calls that in some situations are just wrong.

And I will say, the shotgun draw just grates me.

Trust me, I'm not always thrilled with KG's playcalls in general. I'm just saying that when our QB repeatedly decides to lob the ball 35 yards down the field to a rookie who is blanketed on 3rd and 1 it is on him solely and anyone blaming KG here is just misinformed.

And I'm a huge Eli fan too, but I'll never understand why he chooses to make that pass over and over. Yes, It looks amazing when it succeeds, but when it doesn't it leaves me scratching my head as to why he didn't just run for the 5 yards the defense gave him or check down to the FB/RB for the first down and keep the drive going.

TextureDj
11-05-2012, 03:45 PM
Posts like this make me realize that a huge number of people here have very little concept of how the game actually works and/or have never played it at any level whatsoever.

The OC calls the play, that's it. It's up to the QB to audible, call a hot route, adjust protection, or do nothing, and then finally pass to who he thinks is open. Some of you people seem to think it goes like this:

KG: OK Eli now you must throw the ball when RR is at the 20 yard line no matter what
Eli: DURR OK BOSSA MAN SANKS A BUNCH DERP


:rolleyes:

Wait, thats not how it works?

Cloud57
11-05-2012, 03:47 PM
Eli has a man crush on victor cruz, that's the problem

sharick88
11-05-2012, 04:33 PM
Players play and coaches coach. I am seriously starting to question both the football knowledge and the sanity of our "proud" New York Giant fanbase. KG does NOT control who the ball goes to. The QB makes his reads and throws to whoever he thinks is open. If you want to rip into our offensive execution as of late, look no further than the QB. He is the one throwing the ball to whoever he feels is open or can make a play.

Drez
11-05-2012, 05:36 PM
why why why why WHY!!!!!!!......do you people keep insisting that Gilbride decides who the ball goes to ?????

do you honestly believe that play was designed to go to Randle?

do you honestly believe this?

my goodness
The sad thing is that they do believe it. It truly is unreal.

rainierjef
11-05-2012, 06:11 PM
I think they both deserve a little blame for this one

among many others

time to real in the line and make sure the bait is still on the hook

This.
Coughlin needs to take some blame as well. Deihl had no business starting, NO business!

JesseJames
11-05-2012, 06:23 PM
Eli told the press after last nights game that he feels there is nothing wrong with his game and that he's playing OK and if thats true and Gilbride and TC say the players need to execute better then the blame seems to lie with the players, sounds simple right? if thats the case then what the hell have all of these people been doing since last July, they should all know what to do by now unless they all have some kind of learning disorders

sheepdip
11-06-2012, 01:41 PM
Yeah I know nothing about football, um maybe I am just not a homer and it bothers the blind on this board. No one mentioned anything about Fewel on my post but rather chose to comment on Killdrive.

Ok lets say for a moment it is Eli's descion to throw 20 yards or 30 yards down the field on 3-1 how many times have we seen this ??? many times yet the OC aka Killdrive does nothing to correct it ??? hmm your guys case doesnt make sense. If Eli is in control of all the plays and he decides how far and what routes etc and if it is failing constantly then wouldnt an OC step in an correct it ???. Thought so !!

I have a much better handle on this team then most here.

VTGFAN
11-06-2012, 02:06 PM
There's so many things that need to be worked on its hard to list them all. I agree the play calling for the Giants has sucked for years. I'm not talking about which receiver Eli is throwing to (yes KG doesn't control that)...I'm talking about all the times we've been 3rd and short and the play is for a long throw down field (yes you can see that was the play called) because no receiver is within 10 yrds of the line of scrimmage. How many times can the Giants be on the other teams 20 and come out with either no points or a FG. What ever happened to the 20 yrd pass into the end zone once in a while. Why is it that we have to run the ball every single time from the 20....why is it always run/run/pass?....you think the other team doesn't know what's coming? I haven't been a Eli fan...never was...but some of the fault isn't his. I watched an interview recently when they ask why is it you're so good in the 4th qtr with only a little time left. You know what his response was? "Its because I call my own plays during those drives"....what does that tell you folks? He didn't outright call out KG...but it was as close as you're going to get. Running backs/Receivers/linemen and the QB still have to do their job on the field....but every week I'm questioning the play calls....We get up by 1 score and we play clock control for the next 3 qtrs.

giantsforce
11-06-2012, 02:09 PM
Yeah I know nothing about football, um maybe I am just not a homer and it bothers the blind on this board. No one mentioned anything about Fewel on my post but rather chose to comment on Killdrive.

Ok lets say for a moment it is Eli's descion to throw 20 yards or 30 yards down the field on 3-1 how many times have we seen this ??? many times yet the OC aka Killdrive does nothing to correct it ??? hmm your guys case doesnt make sense. If Eli is in control of all the plays and he decides how far and what routes etc and if it is failing constantly then wouldnt an OC step in an correct it ???. Thought so !!

I have a much better handle on this team then most here.Very well said! I have been saying the same thing about our HC. At what point does he step in and tell Killdrive Run, run, pass, Punt/FG is enough? at what point does he tell Fewell, enough with this soft coverage, unleash the dogs on the QB? At which point does he sit the players who do not perform up to expectations? We have been ahead in the division before at 5-3 and then we went 8-8, how much is coaching fault? But around here you cannot say anything about coaching because they "gave" us 2 SB's.

YATittle1962
11-06-2012, 02:25 PM
Ok lets say for a moment it is Eli's descion to throw 20 yards or 30 yards down the field on 3-1 how many times have we seen this ??? many times yet the OC aka Killdrive does nothing to correct it ??? hmm your guys case doesnt make sense. If Eli is in control of all the plays and he decides how far and what routes etc and if it is failing constantly then wouldnt an OC step in an correct it ???. Thought so !!



you are further proving how much you do not understand this offense my friend

Eli will throw the ball to who the coverage dictates he throw the ball to

Eli does not dictate how far the routes nor what routes.....the defense presented does

this is designed by Kevin Gilbride

when Eli sees a favorable coverage .....no matter if it is 2 and 10 , 3rd and 1 , or 3rd and 35.......if he sees a favorable coverage ...be it a 7 yard crossing route or a 9 route ....he will take it

the object is to get the ball in your playmakers hands



"many times yet the OC aka Killdrive does nothing to correct it ???

there is nothing to correct ....this is how this offense works ...this is how it is designed

it is an extremely potent offense when executed

...and what is failing?

he throws the ball to the favorable coverage and it either completes or it doesn't

why does no one complain when it completes?

bigblue58
11-06-2012, 02:38 PM
why why why why WHY!!!!!!!......do you people keep insisting that Gilbride decides who the ball goes to ?????

do you honestly believe that play was designed to go to Randle?

do you honestly believe this?

my goodness

It would've been a great back shoulder throw had Randle actually stopped to catch the damned thing!

giantsforce
11-06-2012, 02:38 PM
you are further proving how much you do not understand this offense my friend

Eli will throw the ball to who the coverage dictates he throw the ball to

Eli does not dictate how far the routes nor what routes.....the defense presented does

this is designed by Kevin Gilbride

when Eli sees a favorable coverage .....no matter if it is 2 and 10 , 3rd and 1 , or 3rd and 35.......if he sees a favorable coverage ...be it a 7 yard crossing route or a 9 route ....he will take it

the object is to get the ball in your playmakers hands



"many times yet the OC aka Killdrive does nothing to correct it ???

there is nothing to correct ....this is how this offense works ...this is how it is designed

it is an extremely potent offense when executed

...and what is failing?

he throws the ball to the favorable coverage and it either completes or it doesn't

why does no one complain when it completes?I may not know anything about how the plays are called and by whom, but I thought that the object of the game is to make 1st downs when you are at 3rd and 1 and not just chuck it 40 yards downfield. All I am seeing is that every time we need 1 yard for the 1st down there is not even one receiver close to the 1st down marker. Then when we need 9 yards for a 1st down they are running 5 yards routes instead of a 9 yard route. This pattern repeats over and over and now teams have figured it out. By the way, why would we complain if the play works? Do you complain to your doctor when you feel well?

YATittle1962
11-06-2012, 02:59 PM
I may not know anything about how the plays are called and by whom, but I thought that the object of the game is to make 1st downs when you are at 3rd and 1 and not just chuck it 40 yards downfield. All I am seeing is that every time we need 1 yard for the 1st down there is not even one receiver close to the 1st down marker. Then when we need 9 yards for a 1st down they are running 5 yards routes instead of a 9 yard route. This pattern repeats over and over and now teams have figured it out. By the way, why would we complain if the play works? Do you complain to your doctor when you feel well?

just watched the coaches film

the 3rd and 1 play where Randle misses the back shoulder throw ....and there indeed is noone running a short route

it looks like the back was going to hit the flat after chipping but the play never developed that far

very odd call on 3rd and 1 without a doubt

there is no way for me to defend that call whatsoever

GameTime
11-06-2012, 03:04 PM
I understand all the 'design" issues with the offense. However there is also something called football sense and adjustment. Will Eli 'robotically" throw to a pre programmed thought in his head ALL the time??? Sure defensive coverage dictates the flow of the play but at some point you have to huddle up and say..."Ok guys....lets just get a ****ing first down and go from there". A design is only as good as the situation it is allowed to function in. If the design doesnt fit the function then you need to adjust it.

gfanblue
11-06-2012, 03:08 PM
While I agree somewhat in KG being a good scapegoat I think his biggest downfall is he is too smart. Everyone that has called giants games says he runs one of the most difficult and complex offenses today. I really would like to see this team simplify things. Look at the game tapes, figure out what plays have the highest % success rate and use them. I don't care if he comes into the next game with 25-30 plays. If they work go with it. Early on in Elis career he came to the coaches and said what he is good at and not good at. Now we expect him to be Jesus and resurrect a dead team each Sunday. Keep it simple stupid.

YATittle1962
11-06-2012, 03:17 PM
I understand all the 'design" issues with the offense. However there is alson something called football sense and adjustment. Will Eli 'robotically" throw to a pre programmed thought in his head ALl the time??? Sure defensive coverage dictates the flow of the play but at some point you have to huddl up and say..."Ok guys....lets just get a ****ing first down and go from there". A design is only as good as the situation it is allowed to function in. If the design doesnt fit the function then you need to adjust it.

I just watched that 3rd and 1 play on coaches film ....the play where Randle did not expect the back shoulder throw

and I have to say that I am absolutely bewildered that the shortest route is about 10 yds down field

I am not a Gilbride hater nor huge supporter.....but I lean more toward a supporter ....and there is no way in hell I can defend that call

mindblowing

RoanokeFan
11-06-2012, 03:22 PM
"DERP"?

DUH: Eli Returns to Phorm!?

joemorrisforprez
11-06-2012, 03:23 PM
I just watched that 3rd and 1 play on coaches film ....the play where Randle did not expect the back shoulder throw

and I have to say that I am absolutely bewildered that the shortest route is about 10 yds down field

I am not a Gilbride hater nor huge supporter.....but I lean more toward a supporter ....and there is no way in hell I can defend that call

mindblowing


I agree 100%..... I can occasionally understand taking a shot on 3rd and short when a mismatch appears that can be exploited.

But like you said, why must the shortest route be 10+ yards downfield?

Why not run Bennett on a quick curl or slant, or look for Bradshaw out in the flat?

Of course, my preferred approach would be to run the ball......but even then, why not go play-action?

It is very frustrating, especially given how loaded this offense is on paper.

I really, really, really hope that they spend the bye week looking at everything in this stale playbook.

RoanokeFan
11-06-2012, 03:24 PM
I understand all the 'design" issues with the offense. However there is alson something called football sense and adjustment. Will Eli 'robotically" throw to a pre programmed thought in his head ALl the time??? Sure defensive coverage dictates the flow of the play but at some point you have to huddl up and say..."Ok guys....lets just get a ****ing first down and go from there". A design is only as good as the situation it is allowed to function in. If the design doesnt fit the function then you need to adjust it.

Time to get the Eye of the Tiger up :D

stormblue
11-06-2012, 03:26 PM
I understand all the 'design" issues with the offense. However there is alson something called football sense and adjustment. Will Eli 'robotically" throw to a pre programmed thought in his head ALl the time??? Sure defensive coverage dictates the flow of the play but at some point you have to huddl up and say..."Ok guys....lets just get a ****ing first down and go from there". A design is only as good as the situation it is allowed to function in. If the design doesnt fit the function then you need to adjust it.

+1 ^ this.
actually placing an importace on getting a first down or trying to sustain a drive is a stellar idea.
you got my vote .

GameTime
11-06-2012, 03:27 PM
Time to get the Eye of the Tiger up :D

yep....will do it later....

sc_markt
11-06-2012, 03:34 PM
He has no answer to what other teams are doing with there coverages. Also when we put a good drive together early in game 3rd and 1 he calls 20 yard down field back shoulder throw to 4th wr ??? is he a moron ? Also backed up in our end 1st down he blows a down by trying a hail mary near the sideline, which is a typical low % call. How about get the first down or some positive yards. This guy does not surprise me as I have been saying this for years. He has no feel for the game and when to call plays. He has no dump off plays to backs its all down field passing and low % plays. How about some slants underneath some of the deep routes. Where are the rb screens. I thought our running was pretty good at points and figured we should have stayed with it.

Fewel- Dumb dumb, when you call a blitz and Ben and steelers recognize it and then they call an audible, dont you think maybe you call off the blitz ???? are you that stupid ??? I would have more respect for you if you called a blitz and didnt actually come and surprise them. Or maybe call a blitz but if they smell it or you show your cards and they see this maybe just cancel it.

This team might not be able to tackle and are lose with coverage or take bad angles but the coaching is just as bad, just think we should have easily won this.

Scoring Tds in the redzone we would have put this away but just like the dallas game we have some serious problems. Killdrive run the ball inside the 20 and design some new plays as the usual plays arent working.

Bench Diehl too !!!

We got two superbowls under Gilbride. That's enough for me to want to keep him.

Roosevelt
11-06-2012, 03:39 PM
Yeah I know nothing about football, um maybe I am just not a homer and it bothers the blind on this board. No one mentioned anything about Fewel on my post but rather chose to comment on Killdrive.

Ok lets say for a moment it is Eli's descion to throw 20 yards or 30 yards down the field on 3-1 how many times have we seen this ??? many times yet the OC aka Killdrive does nothing to correct it ??? hmm your guys case doesnt make sense. If Eli is in control of all the plays and he decides how far and what routes etc and if it is failing constantly then wouldnt an OC step in an correct it ???. Thought so !!

I have a much better handle on this team then most here.

You obviously do not.

By and large Eli deserves the trust the coaches have placed in him. But there have times in the past when they pulled the reins in on him, and it was very apparent.

GMENAGAIN
11-06-2012, 03:41 PM
Yeah I know nothing about football, um maybe I am just not a homer and it bothers the blind on this board. No one mentioned anything about Fewel on my post but rather chose to comment on Killdrive.

Ok lets say for a moment it is Eli's descion to throw 20 yards or 30 yards down the field on 3-1 how many times have we seen this ??? many times yet the OC aka Killdrive does nothing to correct it ??? hmm your guys case doesnt make sense. If Eli is in control of all the plays and he decides how far and what routes etc and if it is failing constantly then wouldnt an OC step in an correct it ???. Thought so !!

I have a much better handle on this team then most here.

Aren't you the same tool that predicted a 4-12 record for this team before last year's Championship season? lol

bearbryant
11-06-2012, 05:43 PM
First of all on 3rd and 1 they should have a play in the book that ensures a first down, low risk, misdirection , hand off, what ever the D is giving to get the 1st down. But how many times have we seen that fail because our O line just doesn't have the power a Pitt O line has! ( We made redman an All pro) So gilbride goes to the trick book and instead of calling a quick slant w/ a WR set wide because none of our receivers know where the first down markers are. They're always short, always!!! So instead of coaching the receivers where the sticks are, Eli and gilbride go to the play ( back shoulder throw) that they feel has the best chance of success. But they throw it to a rookie who isn't up to speed yet and you get a INC. This game isn't as simple as fix one thing and youre good to go. This team has many issues, starting with the O line, I could go on but won't. We have an old school conservative coaching staff that will never take full advantage of all the talent they have. But there is always next week against Cincy.... Go Giants!!!

Morehead State
11-06-2012, 06:07 PM
First of all on 3rd and 1 they should have a play in the book that ensures a first down, low risk, misdirection , hand off, what ever the D is giving to get the 1st down. But how many times have we seen that fail because our O line just doesn't have the power a Pitt O line has! ( We made redman an All pro) So gilbride goes to the trick book and instead of calling a quick slant w/ a WR set wide because none of our receivers know where the first down markers are. They're always short, always!!! So instead of coaching the receivers where the sticks are, Eli and gilbride go to the play ( back shoulder throw) that they feel has the best chance of success. But they throw it to a rookie who isn't up to speed yet and you get a INC. This game isn't as simple as fix one thing and youre good to go. This team has many issues, starting with the O line, I could go on but won't. We have an old school conservative coaching staff that will never take full advantage of all the talent they have. But there is always next week against Cincy.... Go Giants!!!
What play "ensures" a first down when the other team is trying to stop you from getting the first down?

gfanblue
11-06-2012, 07:20 PM
I said that last week. Felt like he was being held back. I got blasted by a few people but I feel that way regardless

sheepdip
11-06-2012, 08:03 PM
what is the reason for Eli and his low pass percentages over the years ??? low % pass plays. We are downfield passing team yes but as you can see cruz and others can make plays even with shorter routes, 3rd and 1 throwing back shoulder play 30 yards away is low % play and ppl are actually defending it like it was a decent call ! these same ppl are saying I dont know football. what happened with that promising drive ??? thought so. For the record if we won I would say the same thinngs. Bottom line is we were lucky vs Cowboys and Skins. look at the yardage totals in last few games ?? We had balance vs Panthers and that was 1 of our best games. We had quick slants and run/pass ratios were good. Other teams are shutting us down. The cowboys game we had 6 takeways and did nothing. Our kicker is on pace to be the scoring leader and has over 100 points yet everything is great with Killdrives offense. If Fewel is too blame for bad coverage or leaky defense then Killdrive is the blame for an offense that cant move the ball anymore or score points.
Come ppl get your heads of out the sand.

Eliscruzzz
11-06-2012, 08:06 PM
what is the reason for Eli and his low pass percentages over the years ??? low % pass plays. We are downfield passing team yes but as you can see cruz and others can make plays even with shorter routes, 3rd and 1 throwing back shoulder play 30 yards away is low % play and ppl are actually defending it like it was a decent call ! these same ppl are saying I dont know football. what happened with that promising drive ??? thought so. For the record if we won I would say the same thinngs. Bottom line is we were lucky vs Cowboys and Skins. look at the yardage totals in last few games ?? We had balance vs Panthers and that was 1 of our best games. We had quick slants and run/pass ratios were good. Other teams are shutting us down. The cowboys game we had 6 takeways and did nothing. Our kicker is on pace to be the scoring leader and has over 100 points yet everything is great with Killdrives offense. If Fewel is too blame for bad coverage or leaky defense then Killdrive is the blame for an offense that cant move the ball anymore or score points.
Come ppl get your heads of out the sand.Very, very well said....

sheepdip
11-06-2012, 08:10 PM
Aren't you the same tool that predicted a 4-12 record for this team before last year's Championship season? lol

No your the moron that needs to exxeggerate my prediction to help your case. I forgot you were the one who predicted a 9-7 record and win the SB. Your such an idiot on this board.

sheepdip
11-06-2012, 08:11 PM
Aren't you the same tool that predicted a 4-12 record for this team before last year's Championship season? lol

it was 6-10 for the last time and I was 3 games off. I said this during our big losing streak. I didnt say once that I hope that would happen. I am just a realist.

byron
11-06-2012, 08:35 PM
what is the reason for Eli and his low pass percentages over the years ??? low % pass plays. We are downfield passing team yes but as you can see cruz and others can make plays even with shorter routes, 3rd and 1 throwing back shoulder play 30 yards away is low % play and ppl are actually defending it like it was a decent call ! these same ppl are saying I dont know football. what happened with that promising drive ??? thought so. For the record if we won I would say the same thinngs. Bottom line is we were lucky vs Cowboys and Skins. look at the yardage totals in last few games ?? We had balance vs Panthers and that was 1 of our best games. We had quick slants and run/pass ratios were good. Other teams are shutting us down. The cowboys game we had 6 takeways and did nothing. Our kicker is on pace to be the scoring leader and has over 100 points yet everything is great with Killdrives offense. If Fewel is too blame for bad coverage or leaky defense then Killdrive is the blame for an offense that cant move the ball anymore or score points.
Come ppl get your heads of out the sand. there is a nasty stubbornness with this staff to not adjust the game plan/or adjust period in game... and this is nothing new .....the short game has dissapeard over the last few weeks is that because of the game plan ? of coarse it is ....All I can figure is when they studied film of the Steelers D, they decided the short game wouldn't work, or they throught they could burn them with longer routes ..Idk...Now I'm not blaming it all on the coaching staff but they have to bare some of the burden of failure.... anyhow .. good post

sheepdip
11-06-2012, 08:44 PM
there is a nasty stubbornness with this staff to not adjust the game plan/or adjust period in game... and this is nothing new .....the short game has dissapeard over the last few weeks is that because of the game plan ? of coarse it is ....All I can figure is when they studied film of the Steelers D, they decided the short game wouldn't work, or they throught they could burn them with longer routes ..Idk...Now I'm not blaming it all on the coaching staff but they have to bare some of the burden of failure.... anyhow .. good post

Thanks.

sheepdip
11-06-2012, 08:48 PM
I just watched that 3rd and 1 play on coaches film ....the play where Randle did not expect the back shoulder throw

and I have to say that I am absolutely bewildered that the shortest route is about 10 yds down field

I am not a Gilbride hater nor huge supporter.....but I lean more toward a supporter ....and there is no way in hell I can defend that call

mindblowing

Geeez thank you I thought I was the only 1. This isnt the first time folks.

We have big play players and we dont need to throw hope and prayers on 3rd and 1. We have the same players and the same system yet it is so dificult to come up with 3rd and 1 plays. Hey what would sean payton do on 3rd and 1 ?? I bet he has hundreds of plays and yet we have the back shoulder throw ??? come on guys ??

Roosevelt
11-06-2012, 08:52 PM
. If Fewel is too blame for bad coverage or leaky defense then Killdrive is the blame for an offense that cant move the ball anymore or score points.
Come ppl get your heads of out the sand.

Ultimately, I guess he is. But your equating of an offense and defense is seriously flawed as you are forgetting one very important piece to the puzzle. The quarterback. Hopefully that needs no further explanation.

People need to better understand how our offense works if they wish to have any credibility when placing blame on the coaching staff.

Heck, Eli came right out and said he had a bad game and put the onus clearly on himself to improve, all while our message board geniuses have it all figured out and are certain the problem is Killdrive. You can't make this stuff up.

Captain Chaos
11-06-2012, 08:56 PM
I'm surprised TC isn't on the hot seat as well....

byron
11-06-2012, 09:17 PM
Ultimately, I guess he is. But your equating of an offense and defense is seriously flawed as you are forgetting one very important piece to the puzzle. The quarterback. Hopefully that needs no further explanation.

People need to better understand how our offense works if they wish to have any credibility when placing blame on the coaching staff.

Heck, Eli came right out and said he had a bad game and put the onus clearly on himself to improve, all while our message board geniuses have it all figured out and are certain the problem is Killdrive. You can't make this stuff up. absolutely true Rosey none of us know what the game plan is for any given game or what Eli's options are on any given play....We don't get a good view of the field "to our living rooms" to see if Eli had a better option on a given play ....What I saw a lot of Sunday was ru/run long throw,fail ....maybe I'm all wet...but this staff tells Eli what to do no? If he is screwing up they are going to tell aren't they, show him the pictures and such....Idnk it just seems they have no short passing game right now....put it on who you want I guess....I'd just like to see it fixed....we have the players to execute it I would think....anyhow good to see ya man

Roosevelt
11-06-2012, 09:40 PM
absolutely true Rosey none of us know what the game plan is for any given game or what Eli's options are on any given play....We don't get a good view of the field "to our living rooms" to see if Eli had a better option on a given play ....What I saw a lot of Sunday was ru/run long throw,fail ....maybe I'm all wet...but this staff tells Eli what to do no? If he is screwing up they are going to tell aren't they, show him the pictures and such....Idnk it just seems they have no short passing game right now....put it on who you want I guess....I'd just like to see it fixed....we have the players to execute it I would think....anyhow good to see ya man

Same here Byron. I wasn't referring to you BTW as I think your points are valid.

Execution is key. When our players execute Gilbride looks like a genius and when we don't he becomes Killdrive.

When Eli hit Cruz on that 3rd and 2 from our 19 - late in forth qtr vs Tampa that went for a touchdown I questioned the play call asking if it was "gutsy or stupid" and was surprised to see the support for the long ball when we desperately needed a first down.

The bottom line is Gilbride has had Eli running this offense for years and the moment our players don't execute there are those who simply throw Gilbride under the bus.

Eliscruzzz
11-06-2012, 10:36 PM
Ultimately, I guess he is. But your equating of an offense and defense is seriously flawed as you are forgetting one very important piece to the puzzle. The quarterback. Hopefully that needs no further explanation.

People need to better understand how our offense works if they wish to have any credibility when placing blame on the coaching staff.

Heck, Eli came right out and said he had a bad game and put the onus clearly on himself to improve, all while our message board geniuses have it all figured out and are certain the problem is Killdrive. You can't make this stuff up.Eli also said some of it has been play calling too on Mike Franesca on Monday. He said they need to "dink and dunk" more and get it into the playmakers hands and let them make plays with the ball. This leads me to believe that it is play calling too.

Eliscruzzz
11-06-2012, 10:38 PM
Same here Byron. I wasn't referring to you BTW as I think your points are valid.

Execution is key. When our players execute Gilbride looks like a genius and when we don't he becomes Killdrive.

When Eli hit Cruz on that 3rd and 2 from our 19 - late in forth qtr vs Tampa that went for a touchdown I questioned the play call asking if it was "gutsy or stupid" and was surprised to see the support for the long ball when we desperately needed a first down.

The bottom line is Gilbride has had Eli running this offense for years and the moment our players don't execute there are those who simply throw Gilbride under the bus.When it's 3rd and 1 and the wr are running 30 and10 yard routes that is play calling. All you need is a yard call something that is make-able

Roosevelt
11-06-2012, 11:02 PM
When it's 3rd and 1 and the wr are running 30 and10 yard routes that is play calling. All you need is a yard call something that is make-able

Please explain how you determined it's play-calling and not reads by the players.

Eliscruzzz
11-06-2012, 11:14 PM
Please explain how you determined it's play-calling and not reads by the players.IF everyone is running deep routes what else could it be or our players are just flat out dumb. Now the running back was in the back field I don't know if he was supposed to go out in the flat but it looked like his assignment was to block. Please explain to me how you determine that it is the read by the player and not play-calling. Look all I'm saying it's both cause if it was only the players then we seriously need some new ones if the players are the case ALL the time.

giantsfan420
11-06-2012, 11:29 PM
Gotta love how people are claiming their geniuses and are dead wrong. KG DOES DICTATE WHO ELI THROWS TO ON EVERY PASS. He creates all the plays, and its his scheme.
just bc eli may have diff options between the plays hes given by kg doesnt mean a thing, but we also have the choice between obama and romney and i dont consider either woth the **** on the bottom of my shoe.
Im not blaming kg for our recent woes bc of playcalling, more so ive always been a bit opposed to his scheme to and playbook. Just saying, kg absolutely is telling eli where to go by the designs of his plays and the running of his scheme. Who knows maybe all the good plays are when eli audibles off of kgs original play call and all the crappy ones are when we ran kg s primary ;)

Eli is still playing poorly tho, this slump aint on kg imho

byron
11-06-2012, 11:34 PM
Same here Byron. I wasn't referring to you BTW as I think your points are valid.

Execution is key. When our players execute Gilbride looks like a genius and when we don't he becomes Killdrive.

When Eli hit Cruz on that 3rd and 2 from our 19 - late in forth qtr vs Tampa that went for a touchdown I questioned the play call asking if it was "gutsy or stupid" and was surprised to see the support for the long ball when we desperately needed a first down.

The bottom line is Gilbride has had Eli running this offense for years and the moment our players don't execute there are those who simply throw Gilbride under the bus. no problem that never crossed mind....I guess sometimes depending on what the def is showing you might take that shot "catch them off guard"...gutsy call for sure.. and of coarse had it not worked it would have been a stupid call ! haha....that the way it goes around here....thing is man Eli does run the plays/offence with options....which are the individual/weekly game plans and options drawn up by the coaches....and sure execution mistakes are going to happen along with bad throws bad reads and such...Plus you got a D unit out there trying to beat ya ....I'm not trying to defend or throw anybody under the bus really I just see need for improvement all the way around .....hell we've all seem this **** before they'll get it straightened up....I hope .....lol ..Giants Football man !

Roosevelt
11-06-2012, 11:41 PM
IF everyone is running deep routes what else could it be or our players are just flat out dumb. Now the running back was in the back field I don't know if he was supposed to go out in the flat but it looked like his assignment was to block. Please explain to me how you determine that it is the read by the player and not play-calling. Look all I'm saying it's both cause if it was only the players then we seriously need some new ones if the players are the case ALL the time.

Dumb or confident?

Some here believe it's a no-brainer to go long on 3rd and 2 while we're on our own 19 with under 7 minutes to go when we're down.

Regardless, I haven't have called any player or coach out after this game so I have nothing to explain. I can easily buy that it's both. I only take issue that people are trying to lay this all on a coach.

Roosevelt
11-07-2012, 12:06 AM
Gotta love how people are claiming their geniuses and are dead wrong. KG DOES DICTATE WHO ELI THROWS TO ON EVERY PASS. He creates all the plays, and its his scheme.
just bc eli may have diff options between the plays hes given by kg doesnt mean a thing, but we also have the choice between obama and romney and i dont consider either woth the **** on the bottom of my shoe.
Im not blaming kg for our recent woes bc of playcalling, more so ive always been a bit opposed to his scheme to and playbook. Just saying, kg absolutely is telling eli where to go by the designs of his plays and the running of his scheme. Who knows maybe all the good plays are when eli audibles off of kgs original play call and all the crappy ones are when we ran kg s primary ;)

Eli is still playing poorly tho, this slump aint on kg imho


Maybe you can explain how Gilbride dictates the specific player Eli throws to when Eli is given multiple plays to choose from, and then must read the defense, and assess the pressure, while our wideouts read the coverage and adjust accordingly.

Morehead State
11-07-2012, 10:05 AM
Maybe you can explain how Gilbride dictates the specific player Eli throws to when Eli is given multiple plays to choose from, and then must read the defense, and assess the pressure, while our wideouts read the coverage and adjust accordingly.
Yeah..420's view is fantasy. Eli has a great deal of control in this offense.

GameTime
11-07-2012, 10:06 AM
Yeah..420's view is fantasy. Eli has a great deal of control in this offense.

Dont know why people dont know that yet...
however...conversly KG can radio in a play and say "look.....just get the ****ing first down"....no???

GMENAGAIN
11-07-2012, 10:22 AM
No your the moron that needs to exxeggerate my prediction to help your case. I forgot you were the one who predicted a 9-7 record and win the SB. Your such an idiot on this board.

This is my favorite type of post -- a poster who uses misspelled words and poor grammar to call another poster a "moron" and "idiot". Priceless.

GameTime
11-07-2012, 10:29 AM
This is my favorite type of post -- a poster who uses misspelled words and poor grammar to call another poster a "moron" and "idiot". Priceless.

how true....if I am going to rip someone I def make sure the grammar is good to go......

giantsfan420
11-07-2012, 11:06 AM
Yeah..420's view is fantasy. Eli has a great deal of control in this offense.
what? Who said he doesnt have control? But every decision eli can make is based on the plays that make up kgs scheme, the plays he develops. That doesnt change bc eli has multiple plays...just bc u have choices doesnt make them good. Like the election for example, both options suck.
Itd be like a chef following a recipe. Who would get credit for the dish? The guy who just cooked it or the guy who created the recipe for him to follow.
now, theres two sides to this tho, for those that complain when things r going tough and blame kg soley would then have to credit kg solely for when the offense is kicking ***. Me personally, im not blaming kg for the slump. While ive always oppsed his playbook and scheme some, this latest slump is a result of eli and the entire offense failing individually on diff snaps which then makes the offense unsuccessful.
but yeah, so funny how some people are like trying to talk down to ppl for blaming kg bc they claim he isnt making the decisions like theyre geniuses lol while on a snap by snap basis eli makes a decision predicated on delivering the ball on where kg has designed his scheme. Yea hes given three plays presnap, all three plas kg designed. Its not like eli is drawing plays on the dirt. And just occurred to me how ironic it is that some laud people for blaming kg solely while completely excusing. His responsibility and absolving him bc "eli is deciding where ghe ball goes", no the play kg designs predicates that.
oh and btw when u say a comment like where u talk to another person about someone and make a statment like, he lives in fantasy, well it instigates like 99%i of people into saying well you musta had a whole lotta dysfunction in ur life bc u seem to have no problem always trying to make people feel inferior bc someone or a bunch of people must have spent a lot of time making u feel inferior growing up bc a decent good genuine person doesnt enjoy doing so.
Now im not gonna say that but itd be easy to bc of ur attempts to instigate people like its ur job, but itd be easy too. Exactly the same issue with rosie just had to add to ignore bc when u and him are talking abiut me in a thread im not in or even posted in and rosie goes im elis gf, well it made me want to say those things to him bc the apply the same. But i dont want to bc then id almost be halfway down to ur levels, not all the way bc i dont enjoy defaluing people to try and boost a insecure ego bc i dont have one.
Y

brad
11-07-2012, 11:06 AM
Maybe you can explain how Gilbride dictates the specific player Eli throws to when Eli is given multiple plays to choose from, and then must read the defense, and assess the pressure, while our wideouts read the coverage and adjust accordingly.

KG and Eli are equally responsible. KG designs the plays, and determines (most likely with Eli) the strategy they will use to attack the defense. I believe KG is calling the plays, but Eli has the ability to change those plays at the line based on what he sees the defense doing and the personnel he has on the field. The couple of hours of football that we watch each week is just a culmination of many hours of practice and planning that takes place during the week leading up to the game.

This planning should lead to plays that take advantage of your teams strength while exposing a weakness in your opponent. Doing this reduces your reliance on perfect execution, instead giving you plays that continue to move the chains. It isn't execution vs coaching, is is execution + coaching.

If Eli is calling the plays, and KG is simply a spectator, as you seem to be suggesting, then KG is really just a fan watching games for free and drawing a nice salary. I want that job!

Morehead State
11-07-2012, 11:12 AM
what? Who said he doesnt have control? But every decision eli can make is based on the plays that make up kgs scheme, the plays he develops. That doesnt change bc eli has multiple plays...just bc u have choices doesnt make them good. Like the election for example, both options suck.
Itd be like a chef following a recipe. Who would get credit for the dish? The guy who just cooked it or the guy who created the recipe for him to follow.
now, theres two sides to this tho, for those that complain when things r going tough and blame kg soley would then have to credit kg solely for when the offense is kicking ***. Me personally, im not blaming kg for the slump. While ive always oppsed his playbook and scheme some, this latest slump is a result of eli and the entire offense failing individually on diff snaps which then makes the offense unsuccessful.
but yeah, so funny how some people are like trying to talk down to ppl for blaming kg bc they claim he isnt making the decisions like theyre geniuses lol while on a snap by snap basis eli makes a decision predicated on delivering the ball on where kg has designed his scheme. Yea hes given three plays presnap, all three plas kg designed. Its not like eli is drawing plays on the dirt. And just occurred to me how ironic it is that some laud people for blaming kg solely while completely excusing. His responsibility and absolving him bc "eli is deciding where ghe ball goes", no the play kg designs predicates that.
oh and btw when u say a comment like where u talk to another person about someone and make a statment like, he lives in fantasy, well it instigates like 99%i of people into saying well you musta had a whole lotta dysfunction in ur life bc u seem to have no problem always trying to make people feel inferior bc someone or a bunch of people must have spent a lot of time making u feel inferior growing up bc a decent good genuine person doesnt enjoy doing so.
Now im not gonna say that but itd be easy to bc of ur attempts to instigate people like its ur job, but itd be easy too. Exactly the same issue with rosie just had to add to ignore bc when u and him are talking abiut me in a thread im not in or even posted in and rosie goes im elis gf, well it made me want to say those things to him bc the apply the same. But i dont want to bc then id almost be halfway down to ur levels, not all the way bc i dont enjoy defaluing people to try and boost a insecure ego bc i dont have one.
Y

Put it this way...the decision to throw a 30 yard, back shoulder pass down the sidelines on third and short was all Eli's.

brad
11-07-2012, 11:25 AM
Put it this way...the decision to throw a 30 yard, back shoulder pass down the sidelines on third and short was all Eli's.

So are you suggesting that Eli and Eli alone is to blame for the offensive slump and that coaching plays no part in the success or failure of the team?

Roosevelt
11-07-2012, 02:40 PM
KG and Eli are equally responsible. KG designs the plays, and determines (most likely with Eli) the strategy they will use to attack the defense. I believe KG is calling the plays, but Eli has the ability to change those plays at the line based on what he sees the defense doing and the personnel he has on the field. The couple of hours of football that we watch each week is just a culmination of many hours of practice and planning that takes place during the week leading up to the game.

This planning should lead to plays that take advantage of your teams strength while exposing a weakness in your opponent. Doing this reduces your reliance on perfect execution, instead giving you plays that continue to move the chains. It isn't execution vs coaching, is is execution + coaching.

If Eli is calling the plays, and KG is simply a spectator, as you seem to be suggesting, then KG is really just a fan watching games for free and drawing a nice salary. I want that job!

You are correct that on certain occasions Eli is running KG's play and then has the ability to change them. At other times he is sent in multiple plays to choose from on a given play. It depends on the situation, and I would suspect the first 10 or 15 plays are scripted.

The bottom line IMO is we haven't been executing as well the last few weeks. And I'm give the entire team a pass after what we went through with Sandy. I think we'll see a much more focused group out there this weekend.

But one more point about the supposed problem being Gilbride. Tom Coughlin has this to say about his recent talk with Eli: "Let's do a great job in recognition in terms of our adjustments. Let's be decisive. Let's get the ball thrown on target to the receiver, according to what the coverage does us to do. It's just a rhythm. The one thing that nobody's really picked up, which is kind of interesting, is that you don't get any continuity offensively if you don't make any first downs. We haven't had any first downs in two weeks." Sounds like execution is key.

YATittle1962
11-07-2012, 02:55 PM
Put it this way...the decision to throw a 30 yard, back shoulder pass down the sidelines on third and short was all Eli's.

in all fairness there were no short routes run on that play

Eli had Nicks to his left one on one running what looks like a 10 yd fade and is covered well
Bennett running a seam route who was double covered
and Randle with an option to go or fade stop

Eli threw the fade stop and Randle wasn't expecting it

and he was 15 yards down the field not 30 ....the ball hits the ground around the 30 and was snapped at the 45

it also looks like Bradshaw was going to hit the flat after a chip block but the play did not develop that far

so that particular play the post snap was not on Eli

he took the option the defense presented

that was an atrocious play call on 3rd and 1

Morehead State
11-07-2012, 03:01 PM
So are you suggesting that Eli and Eli alone is to blame for the offensive slump and that coaching plays no part in the success or failure of the team?
No. I'm suggesting that Gilbride alone is not responsible.

YATittle1962
11-07-2012, 03:05 PM
No. I'm suggesting that Gilbride alone is not responsible.

watch the film

there was nowhere else for Eli to go.....no short routes ....the shortest route was Nicks on a 10 yd fade that was covered

Eli made the right decision and threw to the favorable matchup

if Eli did not check into that play.....which I do not think he did ........that one was on Gilbride and Gilbride alone

Morehead State
11-07-2012, 03:07 PM
watch the film

there was nowhere else for Eli to go.....no short routes ....the shortest route was Nicks on a 10 yd fade that was covered

Eli made the right decision and threw to the favorable matchup

if Eli did not check into that play.....which I do not think he did ........that one was on Gilbride and Gilbride alone

I read your first post. The poster I was responding to was referring to the slump, not just the one play.

YATittle1962
11-07-2012, 03:27 PM
I read your first post. The poster I was responding to was referring to the slump, not just the one play.

my bad More

disregard

OX1
11-07-2012, 03:42 PM
Dont know why people dont know that yet...
however...conversly KG can radio in a play and say "look.....just get the ****ing first down"....no???

You would think. What ever his offense dictates in any situation, it does not appear that gilbride
alters his original strategy when the scheme is flat out just not working. Does he assume
the scheme is so good, it HAS to work, so there is never a reason to alter it even slightly?.

Drez
11-07-2012, 04:56 PM
in all fairness there were no short routes run on that play

Eli had Nicks to his left one on one running what looks like a 10 yd fade and is covered well
Bennett running a seam route who was double covered
and Randle with an option to go or fade stop

Eli threw the fade stop and Randle wasn't expecting it

and he was 15 yards down the field not 30 ....the ball hits the ground around the 30 and was snapped at the 45

it also looks like Bradshaw was going to hit the flat after a chip block but the play did not develop that far

so that particular play the post snap was not on Eli

he took the option the defense presented

that was an atrocious play call on 3rd and 1
I wonder if any of the reads could have had any of the receivers running shorter routes. Just a musing...

And if Randle had known to look for the back shoulder that would have been a beautiful play.

But, I do find it surprising that there weren't any shorter routes being run.

Drez
11-07-2012, 04:58 PM
Some here believe it's a no-brainer to go long on 3rd and 2 while we're on our own 19 with under 7 minutes to go when we're down.



If you're talking about the Tampa game, you take that one EVERY single time it presents itself regardless of the situation.

Roosevelt
11-07-2012, 08:59 PM
If you're talking about the Tampa game, you take that one EVERY single time it presents itself regardless of the situation.


And when your offense plays like we did last week you'll lose more than you'll win.

Drez
11-07-2012, 09:14 PM
And when your offense plays like we did last week you'll lose more than you'll win.
That goes without saying. However, on that particular play you have to go for the home run. Opportunities like that don't come along very often.

We'll also lose more often than we'll win when the defense and special teams plays like it did on Sunday, too.

Morehead State
11-07-2012, 09:18 PM
That goes without saying. However, on that particular play you have to go for the home run. Opportunities like that don't come along very often.

We'll also lose more often than we'll win when the defense and special teams plays like it did on Sunday, too.
Actually..creating three turnovers wins almost every time.

Drez
11-07-2012, 09:23 PM
Actually..creating three turnovers wins almost every time.
Not when you allow the opposing running back to pick up over 100 yards after contact. Or get a penalty that erases a crucial 3rd down stop. Or allows way too many big plays.

You can go ahead and think that the defense is playing great because they can force a turnover or two if that suits you, but the defense has not been playing well either.

And against the Steelers we only forced 2 turnovers.

Rudyy
11-07-2012, 09:24 PM
Gilbride just needs to learn to adjust to opposing defenses, simple.

byron
11-07-2012, 09:29 PM
You would think. What ever his offense dictates in any situation, it does not appear that gilbride
alters his original strategy when the scheme is flat out just not working. Does he assume
the scheme is so good, it HAS to work, so there is never a reason to alter it even slightly?. 64,000 dollar question right there.....I will say this tho you see them on the side lines looking a pics and such so they are obviously mulling things over....

Morehead State
11-07-2012, 09:30 PM
Not when you allow the opposing running back to pick up over 100 yards after contact. Or get a penalty that erases a crucial 3rd down stop. Or allows way too many big plays.

You can go ahead and think that the defense is playing great because they can force a turnover or two if that suits you, but the defense has not been playing well either.
I don't think they're playing great. I just don't think they are playing terribly either. They are playing better than the offense right now. They are giving up yards but also creating turnovers. they also scored a TD themselves last week. Tying them with the offense in that regard.

Drez
11-07-2012, 09:33 PM
I don't think they're playing great. I just don't think they are playing terribly either. They are playing better than the offense right now. They are giving up yards but also creating turnovers. they also scored a TD themselves last week. Tying them with the offense in that regard.
However, when the defense has been getting gashed as it has the past few weeks it's difficult to win games, even with the turnovers they have been forcing.

Morehead State
11-07-2012, 09:33 PM
Not when you allow the opposing running back to pick up over 100 yards after contact. Or get a penalty that erases a crucial 3rd down stop. Or allows way too many big plays.

You can go ahead and think that the defense is playing great because they can force a turnover or two if that suits you, but the defense has not been playing well either.

And against the Steelers we only forced 2 turnovers.
You are right about the turnovers. But they did score a TD and the numbers are off the charts when your defense scores a TD.

brad
11-07-2012, 09:39 PM
However, when the defense has been getting gashed as it has the past few weeks it's difficult to win games, even with the turnovers they have been forcing.

The defense is giving up a ton of yards, but they aren't giving up a ton of points. If the defense gives up 24 points and scores 7, this offense should be able to put up more than 17 points to get you the win.

I am not absolving the defense, but I am saying they have been adequate, where you seem to be suggesting the defense is the whole problem without recognizing that the offense was horrible

Drez
11-07-2012, 09:39 PM
You are right about the turnovers. But they did score a TD and the numbers are off the charts when your defense scores a TD.
Don't get me wrong, I think that the offense really needs to get their heads out of their asses. But, as I've said before, the defense right now is all about the big play. They just aren't doing the little things very well, like tackling. Hell, Redman would have had like 50 yards if they could have just tackled the guy at first contact.

Roosevelt
11-07-2012, 10:09 PM
what? Who said he doesnt have control? But every decision eli can make is based on the plays that make up kgs scheme, the plays he develops. That doesnt change bc eli has multiple plays...just bc u have choices doesnt make them good. Like the election for example, both options suck.
Itd be like a chef following a recipe. Who would get credit for the dish? The guy who just cooked it or the guy who created the recipe for him to follow.
now, theres two sides to this tho, for those that complain when things r going tough and blame kg soley would then have to credit kg solely for when the offense is kicking ***. Me personally, im not blaming kg for the slump. While ive always oppsed his playbook and scheme some, this latest slump is a result of eli and the entire offense failing individually on diff snaps which then makes the offense unsuccessful.
but yeah, so funny how some people are like trying to talk down to ppl for blaming kg bc they claim he isnt making the decisions like theyre geniuses lol while on a snap by snap basis eli makes a decision predicated on delivering the ball on where kg has designed his scheme. Yea hes given three plays presnap, all three plas kg designed. Its not like eli is drawing plays on the dirt. And just occurred to me how ironic it is that some laud people for blaming kg solely while completely excusing. His responsibility and absolving him bc "eli is deciding where ghe ball goes", no the play kg designs predicates that.
oh and btw when u say a comment like where u talk to another person about someone and make a statment like, he lives in fantasy, well it instigates like 99%i of people into saying well you musta had a whole lotta dysfunction in ur life bc u seem to have no problem always trying to make people feel inferior bc someone or a bunch of people must have spent a lot of time making u feel inferior growing up bc a decent good genuine person doesnt enjoy doing so.
Now im not gonna say that but itd be easy to bc of ur attempts to instigate people like its ur job, but itd be easy too. Exactly the same issue with rosie just had to add to ignore bc when u and him are talking abiut me in a thread im not in or even posted in and rosie goes im elis gf, well it made me want to say those things to him bc the apply the same. But i dont want to bc then id almost be halfway down to ur levels, not all the way bc i dont enjoy defaluing people to try and boost a insecure ego bc i dont have one.
Y


Hold on Sherlock, you said: "KG DOES DICTATE WHO ELI THROWS TO ON EVERY PASS".

Now, unless the meaning of the word "dictate" has changed, that is just flat out wrong. Eli is the ultimate decision maker on pass plays.

To use your cooking analogy, if a recipe calls for jalapenos and the chef chooses to use scotch bonnets instead (causing a flame-thrower to be released at the rectal area of the unsuspecting diners) well then, it's not the creator of the dish that's at fault. The chef is.

You feel this need to support Eli at every turn, hence the jokes. Me, I'm just a Giant's fan.

Drez
11-07-2012, 10:22 PM
Itd be like a chef following a recipe. Who would get credit for the dish? The guy who just cooked it or the guy who created the recipe for him to follow.


Well, as a chef, when I make Hollandaise sauce I'm the one that gets credit for how it comes out, not the guy who created the recipe in the 16th C.

Hell, you could give 4 people the same recipe and you'll get 4 slightly different dishes.

GreenZone
11-07-2012, 10:51 PM
Eli told the press after last nights game that he feels there is nothing wrong with his game and that he's playing OK and if thats true and Gilbride and TC say the players need to execute better then the blame seems to lie with the players, sounds simple right? if thats the case then what the hell have all of these people been doing since last July, they should all know what to do by now unless they all have some kind of learning disorders

This is classic. It's just like there is never any competition on the field and that only the Giant players get paid. Why wouldn't this apply to the Eagles, Redskins and Cowboys even more, if true?

giantsfan420
11-07-2012, 11:01 PM
Well, as a chef, when I make Hollandaise sauce I'm the one that gets credit for how it comes out, not the guy who created the recipe in the 16th C.

Hell, you could give 4 people the same recipe and you'll get 4 slightly different dishes.

haha true. i am no chef. when i made that attempt of an anagoly, i was more thinking along the lines when I make those betty crocker choc chip cookies, i aint taking credit for how good the cookie is.
i dunno, to me its fairly simple. kg designs the plays, correct? those plays, make up KG'S scheme, correct? every route run, is of KG's design, correct? then, every pass is of KGs design as well. Granted thats rather ruidementary and doesnt get into all the inticacies of eli having to read the defense and see it as KG imagined when making the weekly gameplan. And I also know Eli can have diff choices of plays to call, each play tho is of KG's creation. And just bc Eli has options, doesnt mean any one is good.
And I also think its fairly obvious that if people want to solely blame KG, or Eli, then when things are going great, KG, or Eli should get all the fame. I dont subscribe to that, just bc Eli is my favorite player and the memories he's gifted me and mine are priceless doesn't mean I can't be objective. I know it may seem that bc eli is throwing the pass, that he's making every decision. but when every decision he can possibly make is defined by KG, in itself is thus techincally KG's decision. My take on it, and I stand by my statement that those absolbing KG completely bc Eli is simply the one throwing it are dead wrong, and it was classic watching them act like they were geniuses bc they were mocking the same thing they're doing, just the opposite end of the specturm bc they're techincally solely blaming Eli in their descriptions.
Maybe to be clearer and alter my opinion, I can say that Eli does have the ability to make choices, but choices that are provided by KG. We had choices of Obama and Romney that were given to us by a system in flux right now, personally neither we good ones imo. u see how I am trying to compare the two? not a political comment at least not intentionally, just using it to describe the current topic

giants8493
11-07-2012, 11:04 PM
No. I'm suggesting that Gilbride alone is not responsible. OK FINE. IM the one responsible! OK? All Hate can now go through me. Ill man up and admit when when I screwed us up.

Drez
11-07-2012, 11:14 PM
i dunno, to me its fairly simple. kg designs the plays, correct? those plays, make up KG'S scheme, correct? every route run, is of KG's design, correct? then, every pass is of KGs design as well. Granted thats rather ruidementary and doesnt get into all the inticacies of eli having to read the defense and see it as KG imagined when making the weekly gameplan. And I also know Eli can have diff choices of plays to call, each play tho is of KG's creation. And just bc Eli has options, doesnt mean any one is good.


Granted, some plays just may not be right for the particular situation (say the missed back-shoulder to Randle, as it was 3-short and all the routes run were 10+ yds. Eli made the right call on that, unfortunately Randle didn't come back for the ball).

I don't think anyone is absolving KG completely (or at least not very many), however, at this juncture execution is the bigger issue, and particularly that Eli isn't playing very well.

Roosevelt
11-07-2012, 11:19 PM
haha true. i am no chef. when i made that attempt of an anagoly, i was more thinking along the lines when I make those betty crocker choc chip cookies, i aint taking credit for how good the cookie is.
i dunno, to me its fairly simple. kg designs the plays, correct? those plays, make up KG'S scheme, correct? every route run, is of KG's design, correct? then, every pass is of KGs design as well. Granted thats rather ruidementary and doesnt get into all the inticacies of eli having to read the defense and see it as KG imagined when making the weekly gameplan. And I also know Eli can have diff choices of plays to call, each play tho is of KG's creation. And just bc Eli has options, doesnt mean any one is good.
And I also think its fairly obvious that if people want to solely blame KG, or Eli, then when things are going great, KG, or Eli should get all the fame. I dont subscribe to that, just bc Eli is my favorite player and the memories he's gifted me and mine are priceless doesn't mean I can't be objective. I know it may seem that bc eli is throwing the pass, that he's making every decision. but when every decision he can possibly make is defined by KG, in itself is thus techincally KG's decision. My take on it, and I stand by my statement that those absolbing KG completely bc Eli is simply the one throwing it are dead wrong, and it was classic watching them act like they were geniuses bc they were mocking the same thing they're doing, just the opposite end of the specturm bc they're techincally solely blaming Eli in their descriptions.
Maybe to be clearer and alter my opinion, I can say that Eli does have the ability to make choices, but choices that are provided by KG. We had choices of Obama and Romney that were given to us by a system in flux right now, personally neither we good ones imo. u see how I am trying to compare the two? not a political comment at least not intentionally, just using it to describe the current topic


C'mon man. If you're the wideout and it's 3rd and 5 and your call is to run an out, and you run it 4 yards deep, you want to blame the OC?

Sorry but football is not Betty Crocker simple.

The players need to execute. Period.

byron
11-07-2012, 11:20 PM
haha true. i am no chef. when i made that attempt of an anagoly, i was more thinking along the lines when I make those betty crocker choc chip cookies, i aint taking credit for how good the cookie is.
i dunno, to me its fairly simple. kg designs the plays, correct? those plays, make up KG'S scheme, correct? every route run, is of KG's design, correct? then, every pass is of KGs design as well. Granted thats rather ruidementary and doesnt get into all the inticacies of eli having to read the defense and see it as KG imagined when making the weekly gameplan. And I also know Eli can have diff choices of plays to call, each play tho is of KG's creation. And just bc Eli has options, doesnt mean any one is good.
And I also think its fairly obvious that if people want to solely blame KG, or Eli, then when things are going great, KG, or Eli should get all the fame. I dont subscribe to that, just bc Eli is my favorite player and the memories he's gifted me and mine are priceless doesn't mean I can't be objective. I know it may seem that bc eli is throwing the pass, that he's making every decision. but when every decision he can possibly make is defined by KG, in itself is thus techincally KG's decision. My take on it, and I stand by my statement that those absolbing KG completely bc Eli is simply the one throwing it are dead wrong, and it was classic watching them act like they were geniuses bc they were mocking the same thing they're doing, just the opposite end of the specturm bc they're techincally solely blaming Eli in their descriptions.
Maybe to be clearer and alter my opinion, I can say that Eli does have the ability to make choices, but choices that are provided by KG. We had choices of Obama and Romney that were given to us by a system in flux right now, personally neither we good ones imo. u see how I am trying to compare the two? not a political comment at least not intentionally, just using it to describe the current topic Clearly Romney didn't execute well enought win....;)

Rudyy
11-07-2012, 11:25 PM
Clearly Romney didn't execute well enought win....;)oooh..

Eliscruzzz
11-07-2012, 11:31 PM
Simple Players need to execute and KG needs to adjust his gameplan slightly. I love the fact that we are a team that throws it down field but when your qb is struggling lets lay off the option tree routes and let's run nice defined routes so Eli doesn't have to read the wr's body language and the wr aren't getting in the way of each other. Eli needs to take the checkdown and has to stop trying to be the hero and throw it down field. It's both. Like I said if it's only the player we need new ones. Get the offense in rhythm and then take your shots.

brad
11-07-2012, 11:33 PM
C'mon man. If you're the wideout and it's 3rd and 5 and your call is to run an out, and you run it 4 yards deep, you want to blame the OC?

Sorry but football is not Betty Crocker simple.

The players need to execute. Period.

Your right, its not "Betty Crocker simple"... but then go on, attempting to simplify it saying "players need to execute"... it's not that simple.

Any time you see the offense collapse as it has, it can be multiple things, execution being one, but not the only reason. It could be that defenses have learned the tendencies of the offense and have begun to implement strategies that make it more difficult to execute. The offensive coordinator, believe it or not, actually does have a job and role on the team, he isn't merely a spectator. His job in this case is to help implement strategies and plays that take advantage of the teams strengths, counter what opposing teams are doing and put his players in the best position to execute.

A player also has a responsibility, they need to execute the play.. no question about it. But even the most perfectly executed offensive play is going up against a defense, those 11 guys are hell bent on making sure that play doesn't work. If they also execute perfectly... there is a very good chance the offensive play fails. That's where strategy and play calling comes in.

Football is as much a chess match as it is physical.

Eliscruzzz
11-07-2012, 11:38 PM
Your right, its not "Betty Crocker simple"... but then go on, attempting to simplify it saying "players need to execute"... it's not that simple.

Any time you see the offense collapse as it has, it can be multiple things, execution being one, but not the only reason. It could be that defenses have learned the tendencies of the offense and have begun to implement strategies that make it more difficult to execute. The offensive coordinator, believe it or not, actually does have a job and role on the team, he isn't merely a spectator. His job in this case is to help implement strategies and plays that take advantage of the teams strengths, counter what opposing teams are doing and put his players in the best position to execute.

A player also has a responsibility, they need to execute the play.. no question about it. But even the most perfectly executed offensive play is going up against a defense, those 11 guys are hell bent on making sure that play doesn't work. If they also execute perfectly... there is a very good chance the offensive play fails. That's where strategy and play calling comes in.

Football is as much a chess match as it is physical.This....

giantsfan420
11-07-2012, 11:39 PM
Granted, some plays just may not be right for the particular situation (say the missed back-shoulder to Randle, as it was 3-short and all the routes run were 10+ yds. Eli made the right call on that, unfortunately Randle didn't come back for the ball).

I don't think anyone is absolving KG completely (or at least not very many), however, at this juncture execution is the bigger issue, and particularly that Eli isn't playing very well.
yeah he isnt playing up to the standard hes set for himself thats for sure. The good thing is kg/eli have faced these kinda issues and have come out on top. Id say eli had a poor reg season for what he coulda in 2010, likewise i think kg had a poor yr for what he coulda done to fix the run game last yr. Both instances were some of their worst reg seasons, and they turned it around into a lombarrdi.

giantsfan420
11-07-2012, 11:47 PM
Your right, its not "Betty Crocker simple"... but then go on, attempting to simplify it saying "players need to execute"... it's not that simple.

Any time you see the offense collapse as it has, it can be multiple things, execution being one, but not the only reason. It could be that defenses have learned the tendencies of the offense and have begun to implement strategies that make it more difficult to execute. The offensive coordinator, believe it or not, actually does have a job and role on the team, he isn't merely a spectator. His job in this case is to help implement strategies and plays that take advantage of the teams strengths, counter what opposing teams are doing and put his players in the best position to execute.

A player also has a responsibility, they need to execute the play.. no question about it. But even the most perfectly executed offensive play is going up against a defense, those 11 guys are hell bent on making sure that play doesn't work. If they also execute perfectly... there is a very good chance the offensive play fails. That's where strategy and play calling comes in.

Football is as much a chess match as it is physical.
thank you you explained it really clearly better than I could have. Eli could execute a play exactly as kg draws it up. Kg designs the play to goto a certain guy. The decision on where the ball is supposed to go is made before they ever run it, at least according to the design, like if the d does something, the play is designed to goto another target. Eli could run the play exactly as designed, and it still result in an int.
a wierd way of looking at it is suppose elis ints occur when he goes to a wr that the design isnt meant for. I know thats not it but i use it as an example, there are so many diff variations and reasons and ways plays go bad. Eli could make improper reads, kgs designed plays arent attacking the d efficiently, any one of the 11 guys on offense zigs when they were supposed to zag...
and yes eli has choices and could make poor ones, each choice is of kgs creation is what im trying to say

YATittle1962
11-08-2012, 12:01 AM
thank you you explained it really clearly better than I could have. Eli could execute a play exactly as kg draws it up. Kg designs the play to goto a certain guy. The decision on where the ball is supposed to go is made before they ever run it, at least according to the design, like if the d does something, the play is designed to goto another target. Eli could run the play exactly as designed, and it still result in an int.
a wierd way of looking at it is suppose elis ints occur when he goes to a wr that the design isnt meant for. I know thats not it but i use it as an example, there are so many diff variations and reasons and ways plays go bad. Eli could make improper reads, kgs designed plays arent attacking the d efficiently, any one of the 11 guys on offense zigs when they were supposed to zag...
and yes eli has choices and could make poor ones, each choice is of kgs creation is what im trying to say


there are plays that are designed to attempt get certain routes open

this is not the case with every play

pre snap there is no saying how the defense will react to the route tree .....this is why sight adjustments exist

the ball goes to either the open man or the most favorable matchup

bearbryant
11-08-2012, 12:22 AM
I find it interesting that no one has brought up the fact that on 3rd and 1 we're passing the ball. Where's the Run game???

Eliscruzzz
11-08-2012, 12:23 AM
I find it interesting that no one has brought up the fact that on 3rd and 1 we're passing the ball. Where's the Run game???Um half this thread was about the 3rd and 1.

miked1958
11-08-2012, 12:39 AM
I don't think they're playing great. I just don't think they are playing terribly either. They are playing better than the offense right now. They are giving up yards but also creating turnovers. they also scored a TD themselves last week. Tying them with the offense in that regard.actually the defense has scored a TD in past two games. JPPs pick 6 against Dallas and the Boley fumble return vs Pitt

miked1958
11-08-2012, 12:41 AM
I'm sure you knew that. Like someone above stated!! Bottom line is if the D is giving up 24 pts and scoring 7 then the offense should be able to muster more the 17 to win the game

Drez
11-08-2012, 07:24 AM
I find it interesting that no one has brought up the fact that on 3rd and 1 we're passing the ball. Where's the Run game???

"Where's the run game?"

That is the answer to why we were passing on 3-1.

Drez
11-08-2012, 07:26 AM
I'm sure you knew that. Like someone above stated!! Bottom line is if the D is giving up 24 pts and scoring 7 then the offense should be able to muster more the 17 to win the game
Despite all that they still aren't playing well.

Dallas should have never been in the position for Dez to barely not get the TD. We got gouged in the running game last week.

They've had a knack for the big play, but not for the standard one.

Steelman
11-08-2012, 07:39 AM
If the play doesn't work you suck. If it works you're a genius. LOL

Roosevelt
11-08-2012, 03:19 PM
Your right, its not "Betty Crocker simple"... but then go on, attempting to simplify it saying "players need to execute"... it's not that simple.

Any time you see the offense collapse as it has, it can be multiple things, execution being one, but not the only reason. It could be that defenses have learned the tendencies of the offense and have begun to implement strategies that make it more difficult to execute. The offensive coordinator, believe it or not, actually does have a job and role on the team, he isn't merely a spectator. His job in this case is to help implement strategies and plays that take advantage of the teams strengths, counter what opposing teams are doing and put his players in the best position to execute.

A player also has a responsibility, they need to execute the play.. no question about it. But even the most perfectly executed offensive play is going up against a defense, those 11 guys are hell bent on making sure that play doesn't work. If they also execute perfectly... there is a very good chance the offensive play fails. That's where strategy and play calling comes in.

Football is as much a chess match as it is physical.

I totally agree. But I never suggested at any time that KG has no affect our offense. My point was that it's ludicrous to put sole blame on him which is what the OP did. And then 420 took it a step further by stating KG dictates every throw Eli makes which of course is just ridiculous.

There are many factors that play into it as you stated, but don't forget there have been teams (Giants teams) that have lined up and even though the defense knew what was coming, they couldn't stop us.

The reason I kept bringing 'execution' was because of Coughlin's comments about our offense struggles were performance based.

Cloud57
11-08-2012, 03:24 PM
Gilbride gets away with murder because he kills drives

giantsforce
11-08-2012, 05:21 PM
I totally agree. But I never suggested at any time that KG has no affect our offense. My point was that it's ludicrous to put sole blame on him which is what the OP did. And then 420 took it a step further by stating KG dictates every throw Eli makes which of course is just ridiculous.

There are many factors that play into it as you stated, but don't forget there have been teams (Giants teams) that have lined up and even though the defense knew what was coming, they couldn't stop us.

The reason I kept bringing 'execution' was because of Coughlin's comments about our offense struggles were performance based.Of course Coughlin will say it is "execution". The coaches never make a mistake.

giantsfan420
11-08-2012, 05:41 PM
I totally agree. But I never suggested at any time that KG has no affect our offense. My point was that it's ludicrous to put sole blame on him which is what the OP did. And then 420 took it a step further by stating KG dictates every throw Eli makes which of course is just ridiculous.

There are many factors that play into it as you stated, but don't forget there have been teams (Giants teams) that have lined up and even though the defense knew what was coming, they couldn't stop us.

The reason I kept bringing 'execution' was because of Coughlin's comments about our offense struggles were performance based.
Just bc u cant understand something that requirec two brain cells doesnt make it ridiculous. My points have been made and people have agreed on them. Ur stance was, if u want i can quote it, that bc elis the one throwing the ball, he alone is dictating where it goes. U wre mocking posters for solely blaming kg and responded that its eli deciding.
i merely pointed out that while eli may be choosing, hes choosing from the options kg created and designed. The pass is supposed to go where kg designs it based on the d. Ever notice on the sidelines after a td eli and kg look at the film and eli will look to kg like "that was exactly as drawn up". Every single thing in our playbook is kgs creation. Every route run, sight adjustment, etc is of kgs creation. Yeah, id say kg is the one dictating where the ball is going based on the gameplans he puts together.
u seem to be the only one who cant grasp this, so, bravo. I dont even have to resort to ur petty lil namecall insult game.

Roosevelt
11-08-2012, 06:26 PM
Of course Coughlin will say it is "execution". The coaches never make a mistake.

So your point is what, our poor play is on the coaches? I disagree.

Roosevelt
11-08-2012, 06:43 PM
Just bc u cant understand something that requirec two brain cells doesnt make it ridiculous. My points have been made and people have agreed on them. Ur stance was, if u want i can quote it, that bc elis the one throwing the ball, he alone is dictating where it goes. U wre mocking posters for solely blaming kg and responded that its eli deciding.
i merely pointed out that while eli may be choosing, hes choosing from the options kg created and designed. The pass is supposed to go where kg designs it based on the d. Ever notice on the sidelines after a td eli and kg look at the film and eli will look to kg like "that was exactly as drawn up". Every single thing in our playbook is kgs creation. Every route run, sight adjustment, etc is of kgs creation. Yeah, id say kg is the one dictating where the ball is going based on the gameplans he puts together.
u seem to be the only one who cant grasp this, so, bravo. I dont even have to resort to ur petty lil namecall insult game.


See if you can follow along. KG sends in a play and Eli goes with it. No one's open; Eli feels pressure and throws it away. According to your logic, KG dictated that Eli threw it out of bounds. But of course the truth is the coaches, the players, the playing condition & even the crowd noise dictates what goes on. But ultimately the QB must decides where he's going with the ball. Sometimes it works out how the play was drawn up and sometimes it does not.

Eliscruzzz
11-08-2012, 06:47 PM
See if you can follow along. KG sends in a play and Eli goes with it. No one's open; Eli feels pressure and throws it away. According to your logic, KG dictated that Eli threw it out of bounds. But of course the truth is the coaches, the players, the playing condition & even the crowd noise dictates what goes on. But ultimately the QB must decides where he's going with the ball. Sometimes it works out how the play was drawn up and sometimes it does not.I don't think that is what he means. He means that if Eli throws the ball to the best option on that play( yes Eli dictates the throw)but it is KG 's play the dictates that he makes that throw. Do you get it?? I'm not trying to be a **** either just saying this is what he means.

Rusty192
11-08-2012, 06:54 PM
Can this thread die already.

giantsfan420
11-08-2012, 06:57 PM
I don't think that is what he means. He means that if Eli throws the ball to the best option on that play( yes Eli dictates the throw)but it is KG 's play the dictates that he makes that throw. Do you get it?? I'm not trying to be a **** either just saying this is what he means.
its amazing. He prob thinks im trying to blame kg too lol. Hes just got q hard on for me or something wierd always messing with me and talking bout me in threads i havent even posted in...he just got mad im right i guess i dunno. Its not solely kg AND its not solely eli. Some posters made the comments it was all kg to which rosie put that opinion down and the person as well, then stated the opposite, that it was all eli, as if he was a genius.
Thank u for making the point clearly i do have issues sometimes transferring my thoughts into explanations

giantsfan420
11-08-2012, 06:58 PM
Can this thread die already.

Its a zombie thread

Eliscruzzz
11-08-2012, 07:00 PM
its amazing. He prob thinks im trying to blame kg too lol. Hes just got q hard on for me or something wierd always messing with me and talking bout me in threads i havent even posted in...he just got mad im right i guess i dunno. Its not solely kg AND its not solely eli. Some posters made the comments it was all kg to which rosie put that opinion down and the person as well, then stated the opposite, that it was all eli, as if he was a genius.
Thank u for making the point clearly i do have issues sometimes transferring my thoughts into explanationsnp I get what you mean and quite frankly your right it is both.

Cloud57
11-08-2012, 07:02 PM
Its a zombie thread no matter how many times you kill it, it comes back to life

Rusty192
11-08-2012, 07:17 PM
no matter how many times you kill it, it comes back to lifeMaybe someone should say something political so that it gets deleted :P

Of course then said person would get banned.

MattMeyerBud
11-08-2012, 07:33 PM
I agree KG is a total idiot has been always will be - BUT BLAME ELI - lol

i am a huge eli guy, but im sorry he has NOT been producing and executing like he should. Its like its 2005 again and he has tunnel vision for plax only its Cruz this time.

Im not worried about it though and KG's offense has kept us as a top 5 offense since Eli came of age - ain't worried about him either

Roosevelt
11-08-2012, 09:35 PM
I don't think that is what he means. He means that if Eli throws the ball to the best option on that play( yes Eli dictates the throw)but it is KG 's play the dictates that he makes that throw. Do you get it?? I'm not trying to be a **** either just saying this is what he means.

With all due respect are you serious?

Have you ever heard of an audible? Who's play is that? Is the OC responsible for what the QB reads at the line? Who's play is it when the play breaks down? Should we blame Vince Lombardi when our power sweep fails since it was ultimately his design? This argument is embarrassing and just another example of 420 having a complex over Eli. But thanks for trying to stick up for him.

Eliscruzzz
11-08-2012, 11:16 PM
With all due respect are you serious?

Have you ever heard of an audible? Who's play is that? Is the OC responsible for what the QB reads at the line? Who's play is it when the play breaks down? Should we blame Vince Lombardi when our power sweep fails since it was ultimately his design? This argument is embarrassing and just another example of 420 having a complex over Eli. But thanks for trying to stick up for him.Forget it man I 've tried to put it in simple terms for you to understand but you just don't get it. Why you don't, I don't know but you just don't. IT'S BOTH ELI AND KG....KG even said it himself so your theory that it is just the players is way off. I posted a thread with quotes from KG go ahead and read it cause I'm done trying to explain it to you. You are accusing people of bashing just KG but in reality they are saying it's both and that is a FACT, it came from the horses mouth itself. Yes I'm serious dead serious.

Drez
11-08-2012, 11:47 PM
With all due respect are you serious?

Have you ever heard of an audible? Who's play is that?

The audible that Eli would call would still be a play designed by KG 99.8% of the time. Every so often there might be a "drawn up in the dirt" play, but even if Eli audibles completely out of the plays called in the huddle, it's still KG's play. Might be Eli's decision, but it's still KG's play.

Eliscruzzz
11-08-2012, 11:48 PM
The audible that Eli would call would still be a play designed by KG 99.8% of the time. Every so often there might be a "drawn up in the dirt" play, but even if Eli audibles completely out of the plays called in the huddle, it's still KG's play. Might be Eli's decision, but it's still KG's play.He doesn't get it don't even bother...lol.

giantsfan420
11-09-2012, 12:26 AM
With all due respect are you serious?

Have you ever heard of an audible? Who's play is that? Is the OC responsible for what the QB reads at the line? Who's play is it when the play breaks down? Should we blame Vince Lombardi when our power sweep fails since it was ultimately his design? This argument is embarrassing and just another example of 420 having a complex over Eli. But thanks for trying to stick up for him.

pls stop embarassing yourself...lmfao u think kg doesnt create the audibles as well? elicruz, I think its clear he's just not gonna grasp it. its ok. whats worse is he doesnt realize he's the only one...and guess I was right lmfao he does think Im blaming KG

giantsfan420
11-09-2012, 12:31 AM
The audible that Eli would call would still be a play designed by KG 99.8% of the time. Every so often there might be a "drawn up in the dirt" play, but even if Eli audibles completely out of the plays called in the huddle, it's still KG's play. Might be Eli's decision, but it's still KG's play.
and the decision on when to audible to that play based on what the defense is doing would be originally decided by KG, implemented throughout the week with eli and practicing on what to do when they see the situation that calls for the audibles kg created. lmfao i cannot believe he still doesnt get it and even funnier that hes the only one who doesnt, while that shouldnt be funny bc of the whole "bullying 'slow' people" but given rosies history, i love this thread...haha. i dunno whats worse, the fact that he couldnt comprehend when I said the slump is on Eli and the wrs and not on KG bc I dont think theyre on the same page and attacking the defense with consistency or that he was acting like a genius putting people down for solely blaming KG while he cant comprehend its not solely eli at all or even close...either way, again, im loving this classic display of failed football accumen

BillTheGreek
11-09-2012, 01:34 AM
I DON'T CARE WHO'S THE BLAME ! JUST FIX IT ...........ONLY 7 GAMES LEFT !

Roosevelt
11-09-2012, 10:58 AM
Eliscruzzz - Forget it man I 've tried to put it in simple terms for you to understand but you just don't get it. Why you don't, I don't know but you just don't.

Okay I'll play. You are trying to put the obvious in simple terms. Thanks very much.



IT'S BOTH ELI AND KG...

How about the other guys on offense. Do they factor into this?



.KG even said it himself so your theory that it is just the players is way off. I posted a thread with quotes from KG go ahead and read it cause I'm done trying to explain it to you. You are accusing people of bashing just KG but in reality they are saying it's both and that is a FACT, it came from the horses mouth itself. Yes I'm serious dead serious.

I refuted the OP who came up with this thread. Predictably 420 just had to rush to Eli's defense even though I never bashed Eli.

This "argument" has gone way beyond stupid.

Roosevelt
11-09-2012, 11:08 AM
The audible that Eli would call would still be a play designed by KG 99.8% of the time. Every so often there might be a "drawn up in the dirt" play, but even if Eli audibles completely out of the plays called in the huddle, it's still KG's play. Might be Eli's decision, but it's still KG's play.

I have never once argued who's play book it is. And can we please stop stating the obvious?

Roosevelt
11-09-2012, 11:11 AM
pls stop embarassing yourself...lmfao u think kg doesnt create the audibles as well? elicruz, I think its clear he's just not gonna grasp it. its ok. whats worse is he doesnt realize he's the only one...and guess I was right lmfao he does think Im blaming KG

Einstein, when did I state you were blaming KG?

For now on no more posting when your toasted.

You sound like an imbecile.

Morehead State
11-09-2012, 11:15 AM
and the decision on when to audible to that play based on what the defense is doing would be originally decided by KG, implemented throughout the week with eli and practicing on what to do when they see the situation that calls for the audibles kg created. lmfao i cannot believe he still doesnt get it and even funnier that hes the only one who doesnt, while that shouldnt be funny bc of the whole "bullying 'slow' people" but given rosies history, i love this thread...haha. i dunno whats worse, the fact that he couldnt comprehend when I said the slump is on Eli and the wrs and not on KG bc I dont think theyre on the same page and attacking the defense with consistency or that he was acting like a genius putting people down for solely blaming KG while he cant comprehend its not solely eli at all or even close...either way, again, im loving this classic display of failed football accumen

You guys can knock the play calling if you want. Its what all fans do. Including me.
But there is no basis to knock the offensive scheme that KG has in place here. Its a brilliant scheme that has created a very dynamic offense.
Ultimately the players have to execute it and the QB has to read defenses at the line and make his adjustments accordingly.
The ultimate success of our offensive productivity relies on those things.

giantsfan420
11-09-2012, 04:22 PM
You guys can knock the play calling if you want. Its what all fans do. Including me.
But there is no basis to knock the offensive scheme that KG has in place here. Its a brilliant scheme that has created a very dynamic offense.
Ultimately the players have to execute it and the QB has to read defenses at the line and make his adjustments accordingly.
The ultimate success of our offensive productivity relies on those things.

oh i agree. i dont think its the playcalling thats been the issue, i think defenses are doing a good job of confusing the eli to wr relationship, giving them different looks that has eli seeing one thing and the wr another.
we've played like the 2 best defenses vs the pass the last 2 weeks. if anything im confident this will help us in the long run, eli is the kinda guy to learn from mistakes/history. he's now seen how defenses can confuse him, now he can try and combat that with the wrs. i was merely stating that the people blaming solely kg or blaming solely eli are both the same kind of wrong, its a mixture of both, of eli executing the plays to kg's design and kg to design plays that work...

yo-ho
11-09-2012, 05:14 PM
I used to be a big Gilbride detracker, however, his play calling at the end of last season and through most of the beginning of this year has been pretty good. They almost never threw the ball deep prior to last year. Now this year, it looks like they try to goo deep too often to my taste, but what do I know? This lack of a consistent running game is a problem. I also believe that the opposing LBs are helping in coverage of the TE and WRs because they know they don't have to cover the Giant's backs because we never throw to them.

Gilbride can come up with good game plans, however he doesn't appear to be able to adjust when the offense is struggling.

Roosevelt
11-09-2012, 05:34 PM
http://boards.giants.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Morehead State http://boards.giants.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://boards.giants.com/showthread.php?p=572091#post572091)

You guys can knock the play calling if you want. Its what all fans do. Including me.
But there is no basis to knock the offensive scheme that KG has in place here. Its a brilliant scheme that has created a very dynamic offense.
Ultimately the players have to execute it and the QB has to read defenses at the line and make his adjustments accordingly.
The ultimate success of our offensive productivity relies on those things.




giantsfan420 oh i agree

What do you agree with because you've already stated "more so ive always been a bit opposed to his scheme to and playbook"?




. i dont think its the playcalling thats been the issue, i think defenses are doing a good job of confusing the eli to wr relationship, giving them different looks that has eli seeing one thing and the wr another.


Then why the hell would you go on ad nauseum about KG dictating every thing Eli does including when he takes a dump?


i was merely stating that the people blaming solely kg or blaming solely eli are both the same kind of wrong, its a mixture of both, of eli executing the plays to kg's design and kg to design plays that work...

And what was the OP's post about? It was about blaming KG. And what was my response to that? The problem wasn't just on KG, and that we should cut our team a break because of the storm we just went through.

You need help kid.

giantsfan420
11-09-2012, 05:58 PM
What do you agree with because you've already stated "more so ive always been a bit opposed to his scheme to and playbook"?





Then why the hell would you go on ad nauseum about KG dictating every thing Eli does including when he takes a dump?



And what was the OP's post about? It was about blaming KG. And what was my response to that? The problem wasn't just on KG, and that we should cut our team a break because of the storm we just went through.

You need help kid.

lol maybe in your senile world gramps...*still hasnt caughten on he's the only one whose been confused at all*(better get that checked out its usually the first sign)

it was one of ur posts among others for why i even chimed in. some people were blaming kg solely talking about firing him. you responded in your typical put down their opinion/person down and acted superior while saying since its eli making the throws he's making the decisions and its not kg throwing the ball...lmao and im not even going to bother trying to explain how wrong that is again

edit-and just to address one claim you made that i feel clearly exemplifies how one tracked your mind is. i have always been a bit opposed to certain aspects of kgs scheme. think most of us have. you do realize that doesnt mean this latest slump is KGs fault right? that bc I have disliked certain things doesnt mean I blame him for everything, just for those certain things I dislike. for example, your continual attention to those 3rd down and short passes deep which the tb game one was ur first citing. just bc u dislike that doesnt mean that when those plays work that you have to dislike the result. same thing in this case with me.
and going on ad nausem? me and a few others were having a football discussion, sorry if you couldnt keep up. we were merely conversing on how much KG does actually control and decide in this offense. I know I know, "eli throws the balls and audibles its all eli's decision" lmao

Morehead State
11-09-2012, 06:07 PM
lol maybe in your senile world gramps...*still hasnt caughten on he's the only one whose been confused at all*(better get that checked out its usually the first sign)

it was one of ur posts among others for why i even chimed in. some people were blaming kg solely talking about firing him. you responded in your typical put down their opinion/person down and acted superior while saying since its eli making the throws he's making the decisions and its not kg throwing the ball...lmao and im not even going to bother trying to explain how wrong that is again

edit-and just to address one claim you made that i feel clearly exemplifies how one tracked your mind is. i have always been a bit opposed to certain aspects of kgs scheme. think most of us have. you do realize that doesnt mean this latest slump is KGs fault right? that bc I have disliked certain things doesnt mean I blame him for everything, just for those certain things I dislike. for example, your continual attention to those 3rd down and short passes deep which the tb game one was ur first citing. just bc u dislike that doesnt mean that when those plays work that you have to dislike the result. same thing in this case with me.
and going on ad nausem? me and a few others were having a football discussion, sorry if you couldnt keep up. we were merely conversing on how much KG does actually control and decide in this offense. I know I know, "eli throws the balls and audibles its all eli's decision" lmao

Its only a problem to refer to another poster as a "senile gramps" when you use a term like "still hasn't caughten on". As if a non senile person wouldn't know that that comment has no resemblance to English.

In other words, when you personally insult someone, make sure you don't sound like a complete idiot in your response.
I say this with love in the desire to save you from any further embarrassment.

JesseJames
11-09-2012, 06:10 PM
Its only a problem to refer to another poster as a "senile gramps" when you use a term like "still hasn't caughten on". As if a non senile person wouldn't know that that comment has no resemblance to English.

In other words, when you personally insult someone, make sure you don't sound like a complete idiot in your response.
I say this with love in the desire to save you from any further embarrassment.



:)

giantsfan420
11-09-2012, 06:42 PM
Its only a problem to refer to another poster as a "senile gramps" when you use a term like "still hasn't caughten on". As if a non senile person wouldn't know that that comment has no resemblance to English.

In other words, when you personally insult someone, make sure you don't sound like a complete idiot in your response.
I say this with love in the desire to save you from any further embarrassment.
you mean like
"you need help kid"

Roosevelt
11-09-2012, 06:53 PM
lol maybe in your senile world gramps...*still hasnt caughten on he's the only one whose been confused at all*(better get that checked out its usually the first sign)

it was one of ur posts among others for why i even chimed in. some people were blaming kg solely talking about firing him. you responded in your typical put down their opinion/person down and acted superior while saying since its eli making the throws he's making the decisions and its not kg throwing the ball...lmao and im not even going to bother trying to explain how wrong that is again

edit-and just to address one claim you made that i feel clearly exemplifies how one tracked your mind is. i have always been a bit opposed to certain aspects of kgs scheme. think most of us have. you do realize that doesnt mean this latest slump is KGs fault right? that bc I have disliked certain things doesnt mean I blame him for everything, just for those certain things I dislike. for example, your continual attention to those 3rd down and short passes deep which the tb game one was ur first citing. just bc u dislike that doesnt mean that when those plays work that you have to dislike the result. same thing in this case with me.
and going on ad nausem? me and a few others were having a football discussion, sorry if you couldnt keep up. we were merely conversing on how much KG does actually control and decide in this offense. I know I know, "eli throws the balls and audibles its all eli's decision" lmao

What are you on that is causing you to ramble on continuously about nonsense and trying to put words in my mouth?

Why don't you do something constructive and go find where I singled out anyone in the thread for our recent struggles.

And finally, after Morehead said "there is no basis to knock the offensive scheme that KG has in place here. Its a brilliant scheme that has created a very dynamic offense," the first words in your response was "you agree." But of course we now know you really don't agree.

Here's a little bit of info for you. I'm a certified head coach for competitive youth basketball and turned down the offer to be commissioner of the league. I've designed and run clinics as well. I usually coach 2 to 3 teams per year and have been coaching 3 sports for about 10 years now. I think I have a little clue of what it takes to be successful as a team. But let me tell you something I think will be right up your alley. Even though I design and teach the kids how to run a motion offense, and all kinds of zone defenses. They don't always listen - gosh darn it!!!

So I'm going to step out now and watch you further tie yourself up like a pretzel. But please do me a favor and try not to hurt yourself.

ShakeandBake
11-09-2012, 07:00 PM
Its only a problem to refer to another poster as a "senile gramps" when you use a term like "still hasn't caughten on". As if a non senile person wouldn't know that that comment has no resemblance to English.

In other words, when you personally insult someone, make sure you don't sound like a complete idiot in your response.
I say this with love in the desire to save you from any further embarrassment.

Your ******ed

CowboysSuck
11-09-2012, 07:34 PM
This is cute, look at you guys getting all worked up.

Popcorn, slippers... :)

giantsfan420
11-10-2012, 04:12 PM
Ultimately, I guess he is. But your equating of an offense and defense is seriously flawed as you are forgetting one very important piece to the puzzle. The quarterback. Hopefully that needs no further explanation.

People need to better understand how our offense works if they wish to have any credibility when placing blame on the coaching staff.

Heck, Eli came right out and said he had a bad game and put the onus clearly on himself to improve, all while our message board geniuses have it all figured out and are certain the problem is Killdrive. You can't make this stuff up.


Please explain how you determined it's play-calling and not reads by the players.


Maybe you can explain how Gilbride dictates the specific player Eli throws to when Eli is given multiple plays to choose from, and then must read the defense, and assess the pressure, while our wideouts read the coverage and adjust accordingly.

pardon me for not differing to a peewee coach. would post more but theres a limit on multi quote posts. u further went onto cite audibles as to how eli is dictating everything bc "kg sends him in diff plays" etc. and i explained how wrong that and other points were with other posters. and in ur typical style, on top of being "elis gf" (comment u made in a post i didnt even post in), "am an eli fan, while u are a giants fan", "need help kid" etc etc again, which imo, exemplifies much of ur posts here; cannot understand a point that others are discussing, put down said point and person making the point, then withdraw from the situation by going "who me? i didnt do anything" which then leads to "dont tie urself up like a knot" (or whatever lame "put down" u used"...u've claimed and maintained throughout the thread that bc eli is the qb, those who blame kg are these simpletons, all the while u try to show examples of how its not kg and its eli...theres a few others who noticed u had difficulty understanding the points and explained it more clearly so i'd suggest reading their posts if any questions remain