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View Full Version : whats going wrong with perrys defensive schemes



giantsacks
11-06-2012, 11:44 PM
When i watch us play i look at the defense like we need to be more aggresive that front four crap is out the window lets send them im only venting cuz i see teams play teams that we play like phi vs nawlins when we playd philthy we was real timid at comin for vick then i look at the saints send blitz afta blitz afta blitz and get home im like i kno our corners,dline,linebackers are 10 times better then da saints so wats da problem is perry scared !!!!!!!!!

Mr. G-Man
11-07-2012, 12:02 AM
scared to gamble and rides the coat tails of the amazing play making ability of our talented d players

Cloud57
11-07-2012, 01:24 AM
When i watch us play i look at the defense like we need to be more aggresive that front four crap is out the window lets send them im only venting cuz i see teams play teams that we play like phi vs nawlins when we playd philthy we was real timid at comin for vick then i look at the saints send blitz afta blitz afta blitz and get home im like i kno our corners,dline,linebackers are 10 times better then da saints so wats da problem is perry scared !!!!!!!!!

our LBs are slow and our secondary is poor so it's easier to get rid of the ball

Captain Chaos
11-07-2012, 04:58 AM
I think the game against the Steelers was plain and simple, the O continually went three and out, look at the 4th quarter they were out gas. I think the aftermath of Sandy also played a part in that as well.

Generation Eli
11-07-2012, 05:02 AM
its called poor play with regards to coverage and awful play call when it matters the most.

The worst thing you can do is play swish cheese zone against a possible future HOF QB when the game is on the line. We seem to play better when in man coverage but we've also had some broken plays when playing man. Its as if some of the players dont know who to cover at times. Anyways, whatever!

GameTime
11-07-2012, 05:47 AM
they are playing on their heels and not aggressive enough. IMO...due to the fact that they have been getting burned on cutbacks...

SO.....it comes down to discipline. They lack it

CDN_G-FAN
11-07-2012, 06:25 AM
every blitz i saw on Sunday resulted in positive yards for the Steelers unless the ball was dropped.

we don't have guys outside the front 4 that can get after the QB.

Diamondring
11-07-2012, 06:46 AM
our LBs are slow and our secondary is poor so it's easier to get rid of the ballIt doesn't matter cause offenses still move the ball. Our dbs need to learn how to cover cause they aren't doing that much of a good job. Don't forget it is all about the matchups and some of those matchups don't last long. What I mean by not last long? Well some plays have the qb get rid of the ball quick. As a result, our D-line is unable to get at the qb cause the qb is able to throw the ball quick on our dbs. As a result, it doesn;t matter if we blitz or put guys in coverage, our dbss are going to get beat.

Yet I am also worried about our offense cause it should have more talent.

Diamondring
11-07-2012, 06:56 AM
Our defense is really not that bad though.

Rat_bastich
11-07-2012, 09:16 AM
Containment has been poor and guys rushing the passer have just not gotten there. Sometimes they seem to pull up, instead of pinning their ears back and going for broke. I think the lack of consistent coverage has made it difficult on the line, but also lack of pressure makes it hard for the coverage to keep on a receiver for any length of time. I think the philosophy they follow is the bend-but-don't-break philosophy which should only be used when you are up by multiple touchdowns and the game is almost over....otherwise it should be beat down city aggressiveness all the time. They wait for something to develop before they try to counter. They need to dictate the game to the opposing offense.


The defense is a read and react defense which was much maligned when Ray Handley brought it years ago.

GameTime
11-07-2012, 09:18 AM
Containment has been poor and guys rushing the passer have just not gotten there. Sometimes they seem to pull up, instead of pinning their ears back and going for broke. I think the lack of consistent coverage has made it difficult on the line, but also lack of pressure makes it hard for the coverage to keep on a receiver for any length of time. I think the philosophy they follow is the bend-but-don't-break philosophy which should only be used when you are up by multiple touchdowns and the game is almost over....otherwise it should be beat down city aggressiveness all the time. They wait for something to develop before they try to counter. They need to dictate the game to the opposing offense.


The defense is a read and react defense which was much maligned when Ray Handley brought it years ago.

nothing wrong with read and react....as long as you make the right reads and are fast....
the Giants D is not that fast so even when they react correctly they dont get there....
the scheme needs tweaking.....

gumby74
11-07-2012, 09:20 AM
our defense is like the saints d when they won it a few years back. Terrible and couldn't stop anyone, but they get lots of turnovers.

However, our offense needs to play like the juggernaut it can be.

Rat_bastich
11-07-2012, 09:23 AM
nothing wrong with read and react....as long as you make the right reads and are fast....
the Giants D is not that fast so even when they react correctly they dont get there....
the scheme needs tweaking.....

It definitely takes a high football IQ for an effective read and react, which makes me question alot of the defensive captains at this point or event he coach.

GameTime
11-07-2012, 09:27 AM
It definitely takes a high football IQ for an effective read and react, which makes em question alot of the defensive captains at this point or event he coach.

no doubt....you need the right personell for any given D philosophy or scheme.

BlueJayC
11-07-2012, 09:32 AM
Wish they'd be more agressive and bring Rolle up to the line more.....seems to make plays against the run and pass when they bring him down in the box.....back end will be left open but make them make the play.

JesseJames
11-07-2012, 10:34 AM
when Fewell got here he described his defense as one that will give up a lot of yards but prevent the big play. What the hell is the difference if the other team scores a TD and it took them 10 plays to get into the endzone or just one big play, the end result is the same. We went through this same crap with Rod Rust and Tim lewis and this defense looks like the same thing all over again....

brad
11-07-2012, 10:38 AM
nothing wrong with read and react....as long as you make the right reads and are fast....
the Giants D is not that fast so even when they react correctly they dont get there....
the scheme needs tweaking.....

Either you don't remember the years of Handley or weren't around to see it... he did that with players that were far, far better than the talent the Giants have on defense today and it was without a doubt the biggest disaster I have seen with a Giants defense in the 30+ years of watching them.

GameTime
11-07-2012, 11:25 AM
Either you don't remember the years of Handley or weren't around to see it... he did that with players that were far, far better than the talent the Giants have on defense today and it was without a doubt the biggest disaster I have seen with a Giants defense in the 30+ years of watching them.
dude I probably older than you...
I remember...and there was lot mor wrong with Handleys team then just the scheme...

what you think that team and this Giants team are the only ones to use a read and react scheme???

stormblue
11-07-2012, 11:54 AM
actually , this defense is 3rd in the league with 25 sacks.
2nd in the league with 9 fumble recoveries.
and 1st in the league with 17 interceptions.

can you imagine how good they'd be if they could cover or tackle.
i know.....they can't.......but if they could.....wow.

brad
11-07-2012, 11:55 AM
dude I probably older than you...
I remember...and there was lot mor wrong with Handleys team then just the scheme...

what you think that team and this Giants team are the only ones to use a read and react scheme???

You may be older (42)... and while you may be right that there was more than just the scheme that caused problems for Handleys defense, you can't argue that the talent was far better then than it is now. The defense also dramatically improved when they got rid of him. Coincidence?

Yes, I am sure there are a few teams running the read and react defense.. I couldn't tell you who, but I believe GB does? They aren't exactly the defense you want to model yourself after. Read and react may be the right scheme for teams that have the personnel to play it, but the Giants certainly don't. They have always performed better when attacking and being aggressive. Read and react allows offenses to dictate to the defense and puts the players back on their heels more often than not.

Please name one read and react defense that anyone would consider great...

giantsforce
11-07-2012, 12:13 PM
they are playing on their heels and not aggressive enough. IMO...due to the fact that they have been getting burned on cutbacks...

SO.....it comes down to discipline. They lack itWhat? I thought Coughlin was the father of discipline! I wonder what happened and the children do not listen to him.

rtr1105
11-07-2012, 03:25 PM
Containment definitely needs to get better. JPP is good at it and Canty is pretty good too for a DT. We need to be more aggressive in coverage, especially at the corners. Instead of giving opposing receivers a cushion let's jam them more.

JesseJames
11-07-2012, 04:48 PM
a team either dictates or it gets dictated to and right now we're in the latter category and that is what needs to change.

GameTime
11-07-2012, 04:58 PM
You may be older (42)... and while you may be right that there was more than just the scheme that caused problems for Handleys defense, you can't argue that the talent was far better then than it is now. The defense also dramatically improved when they got rid of him. Coincidence?

Yes, I am sure there are a few teams running the read and react defense.. I couldn't tell you who, but I believe GB does? They aren't exactly the defense you want to model yourself after. Read and react may be the right scheme for teams that have the personnel to play it, but the Giants certainly don't. They have always performed better when attacking and being aggressive. Read and react allows offenses to dictate to the defense and puts the players back on their heels more often than not.

Please name one read and react defense that anyone would consider great...

which is exactly what I said.
I wouldnt know a read and react D unless some one actually told that was the scheme. I wouldn't know Fewel's was either. How do we know it is???

BTW....47.....got you by 5.....:)

brad
11-07-2012, 06:10 PM
which is exactly what I said.
I wouldnt know a read and react D unless some one actually told that was the scheme. I wouldn't know Fewel's was either. How do we know it is???

BTW....47.....got you by 5.....:)

Read and React defenses are the ones giving up a ton of yards... LOL

You got me by 5, now I will start calling you old man :D

GameTime
11-07-2012, 06:14 PM
Read and React defenses are the ones giving up a ton of yards... LOL

You got me by 5, now I will start calling you old man :D

:mad:

:cool:

bigbluetribe
11-07-2012, 06:36 PM
the problem is that we play against a lot of very fast and shifty receivers and our dbs cannot recover if they miss or get slowed down jamming, so we cant play as tight as we should or would like to, we either need a new scheme or players that can accomodate what perry wants to do. We also need lb that can play the run and blitz and well cover for that matter haha

jaxnygmen
11-07-2012, 09:06 PM
Our players seemed to get lost in zone coverage. There is poor communication even between the Vets. I agree with a need for a more aggressive approach. The saints killed the eagles. Yes you will get burned every now and then by being so aggressive but you will increase your chances of take aways. I also hate that we played off a WR, ten or more yards, when it is like 3rd and 3!! As far as the LB position goes. I have commented for years that the position has been neglected but it has still not been adequately addressed. Although I think Rivers has potential if he could stay on the field. We should have brought Spags back!!!

brad
11-07-2012, 09:46 PM
I don't know what they did at the end of last season on through the playoffs/SB... but, that is what they need to go back to.

rtr1105
11-07-2012, 10:13 PM
Our players seemed to get lost in zone coverage. There is poor communication even between the Vets. I agree with a need for a more aggressive approach. The saints killed the eagles. Yes you will get burned every now and then by being so aggressive but you will increase your chances of take aways. I also hate that we played off a WR, ten or more yards, when it is like 3rd and 3!! As far as the LB position goes. I have commented for years that the position has been neglected but it has still not been adequately addressed. Although I think Rivers has potential if he could stay on the field. We should have brought Spags back!!!

I don't know too too much about the X's and O's, but that seems like something that would be common sense. We gotta jam opposing WRs or at least play closer to the LOS.

JesseJames
11-08-2012, 10:54 AM
giving receivers a free run off the LOS is a recipe for disaster and we do it all the time and we pay dearly for it yet we keep doing it. Isn't this the reason why Witten has such great success against us, he runs timing routes that he and Romo practice together all the time and the way to defend a timing route is disrupt the timing by jamming receivers at the LOS and yet we just don't do it, why?

giantsfan420
11-08-2012, 01:13 PM
I don't know what they did at the end of last season on through the playoffs/SB... but, that is what they need to go back to.
what happened wasthe secondary got together on the road and study tape on their own as a unit they went to Phillips house or another players. They were all on the same page and it showed. Also pf and the secondary said they were more aggressive in their scheme and that pf allowed them to get up on the los more.
I dont get how the corners can shut down atl, gb,sf and the ne wrs in the postseason and can all a sudden look like this. Web and prince were kicking *** against quality wrs. I dunno whats happened but i know these guys have the skills to get it done at the highest of levels.
i think the loss of kp, which has gone unnoticed around here for the most part, is also playing a big part in the pass defense. He takes away so much field with his range. With him, we can at least take away some of the field. Seems lately every part of the field is wide open for the taking now aside from plays here and their of brilliance that result in a takeaway. Would gladly give some back for more consistency

giantsfan420
11-08-2012, 01:19 PM
I also think u guys areng being too fair with his off coverage. Yes, pf uses it at times that make u scratch ur head, but alot of our takeaways are coming bc pf is baiting qbs into throws they think are there and a lot of that has to do with off coverage bc u can goto diff looks.
i hate how we are playing off on 3rd and shorrs tho i simply dont get that. Simple slant is there for the taking. Also i guess pf uses it bc he wants to keep the action in front of the corner opposed to having them chase the wr in coverage, i dunno but the secondary needs to get back to watching film as a unit on their own time at kps house like last yr and pf has to let them be more aggressive imo

YATittle1962
11-08-2012, 01:52 PM
there is not much a good scheme can do for a defense if the middle of the D is getting blown up creating gaping rush holes

stop the run and the schemes will look a whole lot better than they look right now

scheme all you want .....if you don't stop the run the scheme goes right out the window

if a runner is consistently getting stopped on the second and third levels of your D .....you could get all the best defensive schemers in the history of the league together to build your game plan and they still won't know what to do

JesseJames
11-08-2012, 04:59 PM
I don't remember the article now but I did read the our defensive backs have said they all want play a bump and run defense and jam the receivers at the LOS, I wonder what happened with that...

MattMeyerBud
11-08-2012, 06:22 PM
I think the game against the Steelers was plain and simple, the O continually went three and out, look at the 4th quarter they were out gas. I think the aftermath of Sandy also played a part in that as well.

I don't know about the aftermath of Sandy, but your absolutely right about the offense being the issue. I mean the offense hasn't looked right for like 3 weeks now .

Redeyejedi
11-11-2012, 09:17 AM
when Fewell got here he described his defense as one that will give up a lot of yards but prevent the big play. What the hell is the difference if the other team scores a TD and it took them 10 plays to get into the endzone or just one big play, the end result is the same. We went through this same crap with Rod Rust and Tim lewis and this defense looks like the same thing all over again.... I disagree , The Giants play an opportunistic defense that is based on letting the offense make mistakes and avoiding the big play. The Giants have forced 26 Turnovers through 9 games "2nd in the NFL". Last year they were 4th in the NFL in TO's forced with 31. Perry's first year they led the NFL in Turnovers forced with 39. I get when Fewell is doing and it makes sense. The Giants lost last week because the Offense was awful and the Special teams was dreadful.

NewCoachPlz
11-11-2012, 11:05 AM
Spags was there but they stuck with Fewell. Boooooo.

jomo
11-11-2012, 11:17 AM
I disagree , The Giants play an opportunistic defense that is based on letting the offense make mistakes and avoiding the big play. The Giants have forced 26 Turnovers through 9 games "2nd in the NFL". Last year they were 4th in the NFL in TO's forced with 31. Perry's first year they led the NFL in Turnovers forced with 39. I get when Fewell is doing and it makes sense. The Giants lost last week because the Offense was awful and the Special teams was dreadful.I was with you until you let the defense off the hook for last week. (of course the O didn't play well either). Our D didn't allow our O to get on the field, particularly in the first half. How many times was the Steelers O looking at 2nd a 5? From my seat it seemed like every time. Your comments on our style are correct and I even subscribe to them as a philosophy. It all falls apart however when your D can't stop the run.

Redeyejedi
11-11-2012, 11:41 AM
I was with you until you let the defense off the hook for last week. (of course the O didn't play well either). Our D didn't allow our O to get on the field, particularly in the first half. How many times was the Steelers O looking at 2nd a 5? From my seat it seemed like every time. Your comments on our style are correct and I even subscribe to them as a philosophy. It all falls apart however when your D can't stop the run. Giants ran 46 plays and scored 13 points last week, Thats not the defenses fault . The Defense scored 7 points and gave them the ball at the Pitt 33 once. Pittsburgh had 1 TD drive that went 75 yards. All the other scoring drives started at around Midfield. The offense got no first downs and they played terrible special teams. Pittsburgh had drives that started at the Giants 12,35,and 48 they scored zero points. That game is on the offense all the way

L

YATittle1962
11-11-2012, 12:18 PM
Spags was there but they stuck with Fewell. Boooooo.

how's the Saints D looking these days ?