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RoanokeFan
11-08-2012, 09:02 AM
Giants Putting In Extra Work Trying to Get Eli Manning Back In Synch With WR's, Especially Victor Cruz

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...icle-1.1198485 (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/giants-passing-attack-bad-case-blues-article-1.1198485)


Excerpt: "Eli Manning dropped back and watched Victor Cruz working against a single cornerback on an empty football field. Manning delivered a throw in rhythm.

The routine continued over and over again. It’s a simple one-on-one drill that is performed regularly in training camps. But this is what it’s come down to for the Giants’ struggling aerial attack.

On Tuesday Tom Coughlin met with Manning to discuss the Giants’ recent offensive doldrums. And then on Wednesday, midway through the regular season, the Giants took a mid-practice break from their preparations for Sunday’s game against the Bengals to work through a training-camp drill.

“We just threw it in,” Cruz said. “Once the season starts, we normally don’t do that as much as in training camp. We just threw it in there, just to get some timing down.”

It’s all because a high-flying air attack has been grounded for the better part of four games. Since his 259-yard, three-TD effort against the Browns on Oct. 7, Manning has averaged just 211.8 passing yards per game. He has thrown just two touchdown passes against four interceptions in his last four games, gradually falling off after a brilliant start to the season.

The breaking point came Sunday against the Steelers. Manning passed for 125 yards, his lowest game total since throwing for 111 yards against the Bills on Dec. 23, 2007. Cruz and Hakeem Nicks combined for 77 receiving yards, the second straight week that they managed less than 100 yards.

Manning’s meeting with Coughlin was simple, the coach said, and the two discussed “fundamentals and about getting us going.”

“Just how to get back on track, get back to playing at a high level,” Manning added. “Both of us want the same thing, for our offense to get back rolling and start scoring some points.” Read more...

brad
11-08-2012, 09:07 AM
Sounds like a good place to start to me

RoanokeFan
11-08-2012, 09:27 AM
Sounds like a good place to start to me

Very often we see all kinds of chatter about changing game plans, firing coaches, sitting players when all that's really needed is a return to fundamentals. Eli is no less a QB than he was a few weeks ago. I am confident they will get this turned around.

I think the new CBA's practice rules actually prevent teams from preparing for games. Far less contact drills, less days at practice, etc.

brad
11-08-2012, 09:34 AM
Agreed, I think a similar approach on defense would be a good idea... starting with tackle drills

Mercury
11-08-2012, 10:27 AM
Agreed, I think a similar approach on defense would be a good idea... starting with tackle drills

You took the words out of my mouth.

sc_markt
11-08-2012, 10:30 AM
What about the defense? Any "going back to basics" in that department?...

stormblue
11-08-2012, 10:31 AM
Agreed, I think a similar approach on defense would be a good idea... starting with tackle drills

there is no tackling in practice , part of the CBA.
EVERYBODY...might as well wear a red QB shirt.

Cloud57
11-08-2012, 12:04 PM
can Eli stop forcing the ball to Cruz

RoanokeFan
11-08-2012, 12:06 PM
can Eli stop forcing the ball to Cruz

Eli has done a great job spreading the ball around. You would need to provide some proof that he's "forcing the ball" to Cruz.

Ruttiger711
11-08-2012, 12:14 PM
Eli has done a great job spreading the ball around. You would need to provide some proof that he's "forcing the ball" to Cruz.

I wouldnt say he's forcing it to him, however Cruz looked like he was physically limited after the hit he took early and Eli kept going in his direction.

That may be more on Cruz telling everyone he's "fine". The play that comes to mind is Eli had Cruz over the middle on a pass he normally catches... it was out front of him but in no way unreachable. It looked like Cruz just couldnt extend for the ball like he normally does, either that or he short armed it just a tad because he surley would have taken a shot from the lb.

Flip Empty
11-08-2012, 12:26 PM
Eli has done a great job spreading the ball around. You would need to provide some proof that he's "forcing the ball" to Cruz.
Cruz has 100 targets to 57 receptions on the season, second only to Reggie Wayne's 101/61. Eli has attempted 318 passes which means almost a 3rd of his throws have headed in Cruz's direction.
Eli may not always be forcing it, but he's making it very easy to guess where the ball is going when he drops back.

Next on the list is Nicks, who's been targeted 47 times. Quite a big difference.


As an aside, I have Cruz in my PPR dynasty league, so I'm not complaining about Elisha's apparent salsa fetish :p

RoanokeFan
11-08-2012, 12:33 PM
Pos
Rec (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2012&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&conference=null&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_RECEPTIONS)
Yds (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2012&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&conference=null&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_YARDS)
Avg (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2012&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&conference=null&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_AVERAGE_YARDS)
Yds/G (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2012&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&conference=null&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_YARDS_PER_GAME_AVG)
Lng (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2012&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&conference=null&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_LONG)
TD (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2012&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&conference=null&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_TOUCHDOWNS)
20+ (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2012&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&conference=null&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_20PLUS_YARDS_EACH)
40+ (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2012&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&conference=null&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_40PLUS_YARDS_EACH)
1st (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2012&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&conference=null&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_FIRST_DOWNS)
1st% (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2012&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&conference=null&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_FIRST_DOWN_PERCENT)
FU (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2012&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&conference=null&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_FUMBLES)


Ramses Barden (http://www.nfl.com/players/ramsesbarden/profile?id=BAR116168)
WR
12
198
16.5
24.8
31
0
6
0
9
75
0


Will Beatty (http://www.nfl.com/players/willbeatty/profile?id=BEA648028)
T
0
0
--
0
--
0
0
0
0
--
0


Martellus Bennett (http://www.nfl.com/players/martellusbennett/profile?id=BEN379259)
TE
32
374
11.7
41.6
33T
3
4
0
19
59.4
0


Ahmad Bradshaw (http://www.nfl.com/players/ahmadbradshaw/profile?id=BRA254359)
RB
14
108
7.7
13.5
20
0
1
0
5
35.7
0


Andre Brown (http://www.nfl.com/players/andrebrown/profile?id=BRO251022)
RB
7
57
8.1
7.1
17
0
0
0
2
28.6
0


Victor Cruz (http://www.nfl.com/players/victorcruz/profile?id=CRU827288)
WR
57
717
12.6
79.7
80T
7
7
2
35
61.4
0


Domenik Hixon (http://www.nfl.com/players/domenikhixon/profile?id=HIX462619)
WR
25
372
14.9
46.5
41
0
4
1
16
64
0


Henry Hynoski (http://www.nfl.com/players/henryhynoski/profile?id=HYN548472)
FB
7
32
4.6
3.6
8
0
0
0
1
14.3
0


Jerrel Jernigan (http://www.nfl.com/players/jerreljernigan/profile?id=JER463741)
WR
1
6
6
2
6
0
0
0
0
0
0


Hakeem Nicks (http://www.nfl.com/players/hakeemnicks/profile?id=NIC726593)
WR
27
390
14.4
65
50
1
7
2
20
74.1
0


Bear Pascoe (http://www.nfl.com/players/bearpascoe/profile?id=PAS179616)
TE
3
19
6.3
2.4
7
1
0
0
1
33.3
0


Rueben Randle (http://www.nfl.com/players/ruebenrandle/profile?id=RAN372502)
WR
9
154
17.1
17.1
56
0
2
1
5
55.6
0


David Wilson (http://www.nfl.com/players/davidwilson/profile?id=WIL672509)
RB
1
3
3
0.3
3
0
0
0
0
0
0





















































































































































































































Nicks' absence has created what I think is an anamoly for Cruz's numbers. A healthy, on the field Nicks would make these numbers look different

stormblue
11-08-2012, 12:42 PM
without looking it up .....i would think targeting your #1 wide receiver 30% of the time
would probably be on the lower end of the league average.
why wouldn't you .

RoanokeFan
11-08-2012, 12:47 PM
without looking it up .....i would think targeting your #1 wide receiver 30% of the time
would probably be on the lower end of the league average.
why wouldn't you .

I think Eli has shown he goes through his progressions and finds the first open receiver. Obviously, when the pass rush is being effective, it throws off Eli's timing making him release too early to throw the ball away. I think if Nicks were healthy there would be a more even distribution between Eli's top 2 receivers.

GameTime
11-08-2012, 12:48 PM
at least they are trying something to get back in gear.

Job #1.....as TC and all of us said....Get first downs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Flip Empty
11-08-2012, 12:48 PM
Nicks' absence has created what I think is an anamoly for Cruz's numbers. A healthy, on the field Nicks would make these numbers look different
Absolutely; Cruz totaled 131 targets for the entire 2011 regular season, if he stays on pace, he could hit that around week 12 of this year.

While the ineffectiveness of Nicks is partly to blame, this lopsided target distribution either speaks to Eli's lack of trust in the team's 3rd option, or how the remaining personnel is ill-suited to the offensive gameplan.
The team has no replacement for Manningham which could explain why they're trying to work Randle in so soon.

RoanokeFan
11-08-2012, 12:53 PM
Absolutely; Cruz totaled 131 targets for the entire 2011 regular season, if he stays on pace, he could hit that around week 12 of this year.

While the ineffectiveness of Nicks is partly to blame, this lopsided target distribution either speaks to Eli's lack of trust in the team's 3rd option, or how the remaining personnel is ill-suited to the offensive gameplan.
The team has no replacement for Manningham which could explain why they're trying to work Randle in so soon.


Hixon has been a good # 3 and has better numbers than Manningham to this point in the season. When Eli is off, the entire passing game suffers

Flip Empty
11-08-2012, 12:54 PM
without looking it up .....i would think targeting your #1 wide receiver 30% of the time
would probably be on the lower end of the league average.
why wouldn't you .
It's at the high end. Larry Fitzgerald and Calvin Johnson territory.

Toadofsteel
11-08-2012, 01:00 PM
Hixon has been a good # 3 and has better numbers than Manningham to this point in the season. When Eli is off, the entire passing game suffers

I'd trust Hixon to run a route before Manningham... And honestly Manningham became superfluous after the 2011 season ended, since we knew we were getting Hixon back, and we still have Nicks and Cruz.

RoanokeFan
11-08-2012, 01:02 PM
I'd trust Hixon to run a route before Manningham...

Hixon's 1st down % is better than all other receivers except for Barden who had that one monster game. That's what you look for from your # 3.

Flip Empty
11-08-2012, 01:05 PM
Hixon has been a good # 3 and has better numbers than Manningham to this point in the season.
I meant replace in a skill-set sense.

Hixon is very solid but he isn't a big play guy like Nicks is, like Cruz is, and like Manningham was. While Manningham was inconsistent, defenses had to respect his ability to get open deep; with Hixon, that isn't the case.

Out of the remaining receivers, Randle best fits the bill to become that 3rd "big play" option. It could be why they're trying to force him in there now.

Just a theory...

stormblue
11-08-2012, 01:12 PM
It's at the high end. Larry Fitzgerald and Calvin Johnson territory.

yeah...it took awhile to go check it out. Dalton to AJ Green is 28%
looks like around 25% to 27% of targets to the #1 WR is closer to the norm.

well , stats can prove me wrong as well as right.
the stats (and you) ....busted me this time !! HA-HA

RoanokeFan
11-08-2012, 01:13 PM
I meant replace in a skill-set sense.

Hixon is very solid but he isn't a big play guy like Nicks is, like Cruz is, and like Manningham was. While Manningham was inconsistent, defenses had to respect his ability to get open deep; with Hixon, that isn't the case.

Out of the remaining receivers, Randle best fits the bill to become that 3rd "big play" option. It could be why they're trying to force him in there now.

Just a theory...

You said the right word, consistency. Hixon is where he's supposed to be all of the time. He runs perfect routes and isn't afraid to play in traffic.

Flip Empty
11-08-2012, 01:21 PM
You said the right word, consistency. Hixon is where he's supposed to be all of the time. He runs perfect routes and isn't afraid to play in traffic.

Yes but for a team which would rather find the end zone than the 1st down marker on 3rd and short, is Hixon the right fit for the offense?

RoanokeFan
11-08-2012, 01:32 PM
Yes but for a team which would rather find the end zone than the 1st down marker on 3rd and short, is Hixon the right fit for the offense?

They seem to think he is. They have two top flight play makers in Cruz and Nicks. I'm not trying to be flip, no pun intended, but getting first downs has been a problem lately. Mario is gone, Hixon is here and no one else in the rotation is ready to take over the # 3. If Nicks doesn't play against the Bengals Cruz and Hixon will be 1 and two with, I hope, Randle as the # 3. I am banking on Randle eventually being the # 3.

brad
11-08-2012, 01:55 PM
Yes but for a team which would rather find the end zone than the 1st down marker on 3rd and short, is Hixon the right fit for the offense?

I am hoping that is one of the things Coughlin and Eli are working on this week... going for first downs...

Rusty192
11-08-2012, 02:17 PM
When Eli is off, the entire passing game suffersI'm not ready to attribute our current offensive woes as simply Eli being off. More often then not, it's a combination of many things. Including what our receivers are doing in relation to what Eli thinks they are doing lol. Saying our offense suffers cuz Manning is just simply "off" seems like an easy excuse. There is more to this problem that the coaches and the offense have to work out.

RoanokeFan
11-08-2012, 03:29 PM
I'm not ready to attribute our current offensive woes as simply Eli being off. More often then not, it's a combination of many things. Including what our receivers are doing in relation to what Eli thinks they are doing lol. Saying our offense suffers cuz Manning is just simply "off" seems like an easy excuse. There is more to this problem that the coaches and the offense have to work out.

I was focusing on the passing game, not the entire offense. It's also not a knock against Eli to have a bad streak, it happens. But Eli's accuracy has been off for a few games and it's not all due to the pass rush. They are working on it and I am sure they will get it fixed.

giantsforce
11-08-2012, 05:19 PM
I am hoping that is one of the things Coughlin and Eli are working on this week... going for first downs...I am wondering if Killdrive was part of this meeting.

Chris Christie
11-08-2012, 05:49 PM
Whatever happened to the no huddle hurry up offense that Eli does so well with?
Why does killdrive seem to always move away from what works well?

Chris Christie
11-08-2012, 05:51 PM
We are so predictable, run, run, pass, punt as of late. I don't understand why Kev sticks with it.

Eliscruzzz
11-08-2012, 05:52 PM
We are so predictable, run, run, pass, punt as of late. I don't understand why Kev sticks with it.It's not him, the players don't execute. ( red font)

JesseJames
11-08-2012, 06:17 PM
Agreed, I think a similar approach on defense would be a good idea... starting with tackle drillsI've been following pro football for a long time now all the way back to the 60's and I'm seeing the worst tackling I have ever seen in my life going on in college and the pros

Rusty192
11-08-2012, 06:49 PM
I was focusing on the passing game, not the entire offense. It's also not a knock against Eli to have a bad streak, it happens. But Eli's accuracy has been off for a few games and it's not all due to the pass rush. They are working on it and I am sure they will get it fixed.Yeah he has times where he misses guys and stuff like that. But the problem we have here is much deeper and worrisome than just Eli having a bump in the road. That's my point.

Maybe we can fix it now so that we can avoid the annual collapse that we are so fond of :P

Cloud57
11-08-2012, 06:55 PM
We are so predictable, run, run, pass, punt as of late. I don't understand why Kev sticks with it.

it wouldn't be all that bad if you actually gain yards while running and then throw a short pass. but the reality is 1st down: gain 1 yard , 2nd down: gain 2 yards, 3rd and 7 throws the ball 30 yrds where it's incomplete or intercepted, then punt.

time of possession = 1 minute.

Chris Christie
11-08-2012, 06:57 PM
Bingo

Ruttiger711
11-08-2012, 07:41 PM
it wouldn't be all that bad if you actually gain yards while running and then throw a short pass. but the reality is 1st down: gain 1 yard , 2nd down: gain 2 yards, 3rd and 7 throws the ball 30 yrds where it's incomplete or intercepted, then punt.

time of possession = 1 minute.

All too real.

Eliscruzzz
11-08-2012, 07:43 PM
The lack of a running game is sickening. Sometimes I wonder even why we bother.