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View Full Version : The Giants are a mediocre franchise



MikeV
12-19-2011, 06:01 PM
Twenty years of mediocrity before Parcel's came along...what did owners and GM do? Ran him out of town...

Under TC same o same o...with exception of one Superbowl that I credit to Spag's defense.

Today, headed to our fourth year second half collapse under TC.

Clean house from Reece down....find ownership that really takes action to create sustained excellence and sell the team

Fans deserve more than we've gotten for the past 40 years!!!!

SweetZombieJesus
12-19-2011, 06:09 PM
Twenty years of mediocrity before Parcel's came along...what did owners and GM do? Ran him out of town...

Uh, no.

Parcells tried to quit after the 1986 Super Bowl but the Giants wouldn't let him out of his contract.

In 1990 he told people before the Super Bowl he was going to quit. Before the actual game. But he watched as all his assistants (including Belichick and Coughlin) left for other jobs, and quit on the Giants. AFTER rookie mini-camp, which left them with literally nobody to coach, and that's how Ray Handley got the job.

Then he shows up in New England in 1993.

Of course he screwed New England too. And then the Jets. And then the Cowboys. And then the Dolphins.

Learn your history if you're going to use it to try to make a point.

And really, you're going to complain about the Maras?

MikeSherrard
12-19-2011, 06:15 PM
Super Bowl in 2007, playoff contenders every year, very good QB for the foreseeable future. It could be A LOT worse!



Jets-Never Win. Perennial losers. No championships since '69.
Noone can argue, being a Giants fan has had a significantly better share
of great games and wonderful memories!



Eagles- Could you imagine if every single season that you watched you never once won a championship! I would be so miserable.



Skins- Could you imagine how hard being a fan of their team for the last 10 years would be?



Bills- ouch



Cleveland- oh god



Detroit- yup



Chicago- you'd be posting about how you hate cutler and the
terrible o'line and how sleepy Lovie smith looks on the sideline. Good
in the 80's but that was a long time ago and nothing to note in the
90's. 2000 was bland. Giants are better to root for!



Colts- yep they are looking good. ALthough they have been
kicking but with Manning and won a few Bowls, plus they had Unitas. It
wouldnt be too bad rooting for them



Rams- pretty glad i don't root for them! A little run with
Warner but overall, a losing franchise and I'm happier to be rooting for
big blue!



Miami- Hows that going for you? nothing to get excited about
since Marino and even he never won. Happier to root for the G-Men for
sure!



Cowboys- You would still be killing yourself over losing to the
Giants and you would be questioning Romo's passion for the game on the
message boards every day. If I had to see wade phillips in charge of my
team on the sidelines for 5 years, I would have puked. They had some
runs in the 90's and pretty good history but I'll take the Giants
because of the playoof win in 2007 and a more recent super bowl!



Cincinnati- dont think anyone can argue that we're in better shape then them



Atlanta- another winless franchise



New Orleans- yes, they look good now. Rooting for them is easy, they are dominating. But over the years they were a laughing stock.



Pats- that would be nice but they went decades of being awful



Pittsburgh- probably the best franchise to be a fan of in terms of consistency. I would be happy to be a fan



Green Bay- Great franchise but had some gut wrenching playoff losses with Favre. Overall, great franchise.



Minnesota- Another franchise that would make you a nut case-
culppepr blowing it, Dennis Green (ugh), gary anderson missed field
goal- I am much happier being a giants fan, plus we beat them to go to the
super bowl in 2000. G-men are better to root for.



Denver- had some good runs, they are fairly consistent but I
think being a Giants fan is better because we beat them in the super
bowl.



Arizona- Perennial losers, they made a run but really this would be just simply painful to root for this team



Kansas City- 10-15 years of futility you would be straight up miserable rooting for them



Houston Texans- they've done nothing and they get smoked by the colts no playoffs....no doubt being a Giant fan is more fun



San Diego-Talent and they lose, you would be asking for Norv Turners head on platter and ripping Rivers all day everyday



Seattle- Please, what a dull team in NFL history. Big Blue is better to root for!



49ers- I would have thrown up a lot of Sunday afternoons watching
Alex Smith. They did rule the 80's and 90's and pretty good in the
2000 with Jeff Garcia---Overall it wouldn't be horrible rooting for this
team my whole life.



Tampa Bay- Even with the super bowl in 2005 or whatever, this team is usually awful...Giants franchise is infinitely better.

SweetZombieJesus
12-19-2011, 06:23 PM
Pittsburgh- probably the best franchise to be a fan of in terms of consistency. I would be happy to be a fan

Ironically they were one of the NFL's doormats. Didn't even make the playoffs a single time from 1933-1972. Since then it's been slightly better ;)

Giantsin04
12-19-2011, 06:41 PM
Let me guess.... Yankee trash???

NY_Eli
12-19-2011, 06:48 PM
Super Bowl in 2007, playoff contenders every year, very good QB for the foreseeable future.* It could be A LOT worse!



Jets-Never Win.* Perennial losers.* No championships since '69.*
Noone can argue, being a Giants fan has had a significantly better share
of great games and wonderful memories!



Eagles- Could you imagine if every single season that you watched you never once won a championship!* I would be so miserable.



Skins- Could you imagine how hard being a fan of their team for the last 10 years would be?



Bills- ouch



Cleveland- oh god



Detroit- yup



Chicago- you'd be posting about how you hate cutler and the
terrible o'line and how sleepy Lovie smith looks on the sideline.* Good
in the 80's but that was a long time ago and nothing to note in the
90's. 2000 was bland.* Giants are better to root for!



Colts- yep they are looking good.* ALthough they have been
kicking but with Manning and won a few Bowls, plus they had Unitas.* It
wouldnt be too bad rooting for them



Rams- pretty glad i don't root for them!* A little run with
Warner but overall, a losing franchise and I'm happier to be rooting for
big blue!



Miami-* Hows that going for you? nothing to get excited about
since Marino and even he never won.* Happier to root for the G-Men for
sure!



Cowboys- You would still be killing yourself over losing to the
Giants and you would be questioning Romo's passion for the game on the
message boards every day.* If I had to see wade phillips in charge of my
team on the sidelines for 5 years, I would have puked.* They had some
runs in the 90's and pretty good history but I'll take the Giants
because of the playoof win in 2007 and a more recent super bowl!



Cincinnati- dont think anyone can argue that we're in better shape then them



Atlanta- another winless franchise



New Orleans- yes, they look good now.* Rooting for them is easy, they are dominating.* But over the years they were a laughing stock.*



Pats- that would be nice but they went decades of being awful



Pittsburgh- probably the best franchise to be a fan of in terms of consistency.* I would be happy to be a fan



Green Bay- Great franchise but had some gut wrenching playoff losses with Favre.* Overall, great franchise.



Minnesota- Another franchise that would make you a nut case-
culppepr blowing it, Dennis Green (ugh), gary anderson missed field
goal- I am much happier being a giants fan, plus we beat them to go to the
super bowl in 2000.* G-men are better to root for.



Denver- had some good runs, they are fairly consistent but I
think being a Giants fan is better because we beat them in the super
bowl.



Arizona- Perennial losers, they made a run but really this would be just simply painful to root for this team



Kansas City- 10-15 years of futility you would be straight up miserable rooting for them



Houston Texans- they've done nothing and they get smoked by the colts no playoffs....no doubt being a Giant fan is more fun



San Diego-Talent and they lose, you would be asking for Norv Turners head on platter and ripping Rivers all day everyday



Seattle- Please, what a dull team in NFL history.* Big Blue is better to root for!



49ers- I would have thrown up a lot of Sunday afternoons watching
Alex Smith.* They did rule the 80's and 90's and pretty good in the
2000 with Jeff Garcia---Overall it wouldn't be horrible rooting for this
team my whole life.



Tampa Bay- Even with the super bowl in 2005 or whatever, this team is usually awful...Giants franchise is infinitely better.

Excellent analysis.

How many of those teams are better than the giants? I can't imagine what it's like to be a hardcore Browns fan. Just sad.

BlueBlitzer
12-19-2011, 06:51 PM
Does your mommie know your on the computer again, playing Giant Fan ?

JMFP2
12-19-2011, 06:57 PM
Coughlin restored pride to this Giants team. Unfortunately, the talent on the team has gotten old and/or soft.

If Coughlin goes, I want to see alot of roster changes, because many of the guys that Reese has brought on board are overrated, soft, or both.

GameTime
12-19-2011, 07:29 PM
Twenty years of mediocrity before Parcel's came along...what did owners and GM do? Ran him out of town... Under TC same o same o...with exception of one Superbowl that I credit to Spag's defense. Today, headed to our fourth year second half collapse under TC. Clean house from Reece down....find ownership that really takes action to create sustained excellence and sell the team Fans deserve more than we've gotten for the past 40 years!!!!</P>


shut up......</P>


so as a football fan you take a super bowl for granted. And you are obviously on Spagnulos jock...</P>


find ownership??? WTF are you talking about...you want them to sell the team or something....</P>


good thing you're not a Browns fan......</P>

NYfanatic
12-19-2011, 08:23 PM
They are not bad. Had a bunch of NFL championships and then the only team to win a Bowl in the 80's 90's and 00's. Will it be the 10's as well? Who knows. But Do I bet the Gmen will be 10+ time champs by 2050? You bet.
Sorry we cant be the NY Yankees. I would love to see the giants win 27 champions but the NFL is a much harder league to win in. I have seen the yankees win a lot but cmon I am also a Knicks fan. They havent been good at all in the 00's.

BurnerNYG
12-19-2011, 08:27 PM
Super Bowl in 2007, playoff contenders every year, very good QB for the foreseeable future.* It could be A LOT worse!



Jets-Never Win.* Perennial losers.* No championships since '69.*
Noone can argue, being a Giants fan has had a significantly better share
of great games and wonderful memories!



Eagles- Could you imagine if every single season that you watched you never once won a championship!* I would be so miserable.



Skins- Could you imagine how hard being a fan of their team for the last 10 years would be?



Bills- ouch



Cleveland- oh god



Detroit- yup



Chicago- you'd be posting about how you hate cutler and the
terrible o'line and how sleepy Lovie smith looks on the sideline.* Good
in the 80's but that was a long time ago and nothing to note in the
90's. 2000 was bland.* Giants are better to root for!



Colts- yep they are looking good.* ALthough they have been
kicking but with Manning and won a few Bowls, plus they had Unitas.* It
wouldnt be too bad rooting for them



Rams- pretty glad i don't root for them!* A little run with
Warner but overall, a losing franchise and I'm happier to be rooting for
big blue!



Miami-* Hows that going for you? nothing to get excited about
since Marino and even he never won.* Happier to root for the G-Men for
sure!



Cowboys- You would still be killing yourself over losing to the
Giants and you would be questioning Romo's passion for the game on the
message boards every day.* If I had to see wade phillips in charge of my
team on the sidelines for 5 years, I would have puked.* They had some
runs in the 90's and pretty good history but I'll take the Giants
because of the playoof win in 2007 and a more recent super bowl!



Cincinnati- dont think anyone can argue that we're in better shape then them



Atlanta- another winless franchise



New Orleans- yes, they look good now.* Rooting for them is easy, they are dominating.* But over the years they were a laughing stock.*



Pats- that would be nice but they went decades of being awful



Pittsburgh- probably the best franchise to be a fan of in terms of consistency.* I would be happy to be a fan



Green Bay- Great franchise but had some gut wrenching playoff losses with Favre.* Overall, great franchise.



Minnesota- Another franchise that would make you a nut case-
culppepr blowing it, Dennis Green (ugh), gary anderson missed field
goal- I am much happier being a giants fan, plus we beat them to go to the
super bowl in 2000.* G-men are better to root for.



Denver- had some good runs, they are fairly consistent but I
think being a Giants fan is better because we beat them in the super
bowl.



Arizona- Perennial losers, they made a run but really this would be just simply painful to root for this team



Kansas City- 10-15 years of futility you would be straight up miserable rooting for them



Houston Texans- they've done nothing and they get smoked by the colts no playoffs....no doubt being a Giant fan is more fun



San Diego-Talent and they lose, you would be asking for Norv Turners head on platter and ripping Rivers all day everyday



Seattle- Please, what a dull team in NFL history.* Big Blue is better to root for!



49ers- I would have thrown up a lot of Sunday afternoons watching
Alex Smith.* They did rule the 80's and 90's and pretty good in the
2000 with Jeff Garcia---Overall it wouldn't be horrible rooting for this
team my whole life.



Tampa Bay- Even with the super bowl in 2005 or whatever, this team is usually awful...Giants franchise is infinitely better.I don't agree with the OP but if I weren't at work, I would break down why I think your analysis sucks. You're missing a few teams too.

DandyDon
12-19-2011, 11:31 PM
Twenty years of mediocrity before Parcel's came along...what did owners and GM do? Ran him out of town...

Under TC same o same o...with exception of one Superbowl that I credit to Spag's defense.

Today, headed to our fourth year second half collapse under TC.

Clean house from Reece down....find ownership that really takes action to create sustained excellence and sell the team

Fans deserve more than we've gotten for the past 40 years!!!!

Just curious. How old are you?

jhamburg
12-19-2011, 11:42 PM
Cowboys- You would still be killing yourself over losing to the
Giants and you would be questioning Romo's passion for the game on the
message boards every day.* If I had to see wade phillips in charge of my
team on the sidelines for 5 years, I would have puked.* They had some
runs in the 90's and pretty good history but I'll take the Giants
because of the playoof win in 2007 and a more recent super bowl!



As much as I hate the Cowboys I don't think you can really say this. They were great in the 70s, bad in the late 80s, dominant in the 90s, and mostly competitive in the 2000s. The Giants had much more prolonged periods of awfulness.

bigjeep
12-20-2011, 05:14 AM
Twenty years of mediocrity before Parcel's came along...what did owners and GM do? Ran him out of town...

Uh, no.

Parcells tried to quit after the 1986 Super Bowl but the Giants wouldn't let him out of his contract.

In 1990 he told people before the Super Bowl he was going to quit.* Before the actual game.* But he watched as all his assistants (including Belichick and Coughlin) left for other jobs, and quit on the Giants.* AFTER rookie mini-camp, which left them with literally nobody to coach, and that's how Ray Handley got the job.

Then he shows up in New England in 1993.

Of course he screwed New England too.* And then the Jets.* And then the Cowboys.* And then the Dolphins.

Learn your history if you're going to use it to try to make a point.

And really, you're going to complain about the Maras?


He was never the Giants choice in the first place. He replaced Perkins when he quite. I think Parcel won 2 or 3 games his first year! Almost got canned!

BlueJayC
12-20-2011, 08:03 AM
Twenty years of mediocrity before Parcel's came along...what did owners and GM do? Ran him out of town...

Uh, no.

Parcells tried to quit after the 1986 Super Bowl but the Giants wouldn't let him out of his contract.

In 1990 he told people before the Super Bowl he was going to quit. Before the actual game. But he watched as all his assistants (including Belichick and Coughlin) left for other jobs, and quit on the Giants. AFTER rookie mini-camp, which left them with literally nobody to coach, and that's how Ray Handley got the job.

Then he shows up in New England in 1993.

Of course he screwed New England too. And then the Jets. And then the Cowboys. And then the Dolphins.

Learn your history if you're going to use it to try to make a point.

And really, you're going to complain about the Maras?
He was never the Giants choice in the first place. He replaced Perkins when he quite. I think Parcel won 2 or 3 games his first year! Almost got canned!</P>


"Mr. Mike V, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul." - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7w64fbqYQY</P>


In all seriousness this may be the most unsubstantial, idiotic, semi-psychotic, inaccurate statement I've ever read......</P>

nihan87
12-20-2011, 09:52 AM
They are not bad. Had a bunch of NFL championships and then the only team to win a Bowl in the 80's 90's and 00's. Will it be the 10's as well? Who knows. But Do I bet the Gmen will be 10+ time champs by 2050? You bet.
Sorry we cant be the NY Yankees. I would love to see the giants win 27 champions but the NFL is a much harder league to win in. I have seen the yankees win a lot but cmon I am also a Knicks fan. They havent been good at all in the 00's.
</P>


</P>


Its a damn good year to be a Knicks fan. They look solid! </P>

Kruunch
12-20-2011, 09:57 AM
Twenty years of mediocrity before Parcel's came along...what did owners and GM do? Ran him out of town...

Under TC same o same o...with exception of one Superbowl that I credit to Spag's defense.

Today, headed to our fourth year second half collapse under TC.

Clean house from Reece down....find ownership that really takes action to create sustained excellence and sell the team

Fans deserve more than we've gotten for the past 40 years!!!!

Jerry we told you to stop posting here.

Back to your Palace in Dallas with you!

MikeV
12-20-2011, 11:05 AM
Who is ranting and raving...you are an idiot and a NYG bot!

NYSPORTS
12-20-2011, 11:09 AM
Twenty years of mediocrity before Parcel's came along...what did owners and GM do? Ran him out of town...

Under TC same o same o...with exception of one Superbowl that I credit to Spag's defense.

Today, headed to our fourth year second half collapse under TC.

Clean house from Reece down....find ownership that really takes action to create sustained excellence and sell the team

Fans deserve more than we've gotten for the past 40 years!!!!


You must be really young b/c your history is as inaccurate as your present views.

Dr Octopus
12-20-2011, 11:25 AM
No MikeV you are wrong
The Giants are the finest , most honourable and proudest franchise in the NFL
You are clearly a mediocre fan

Kase-1
12-20-2011, 11:28 AM
No MikeV you are wrong
The Giants are the finest , most honourable and proudest franchise in the NFL
You are clearly a mediocre fanWell said sir, well said...

plc
12-20-2011, 11:49 AM
All I can say is I am extremely proud to state "I am a Giant fan" There arenot all that manyorganizations in football that are truly legit in terms of doing things with intergrity, the Giants being one of them.Thank you to the ownership of this great and noble team.

RoanokeFan
12-20-2011, 11:58 AM
Twenty years of mediocrity before Parcel's came along...what did owners and GM do? Ran him out of town...

Uh, no.

Parcells tried to quit after the 1986 Super Bowl but the Giants wouldn't let him out of his contract.

In 1990 he told people before the Super Bowl he was going to quit. Before the actual game. But he watched as all his assistants (including Belichick and Coughlin) left for other jobs, and quit on the Giants. AFTER rookie mini-camp, which left them with literally nobody to coach, and that's how Ray Handley got the job.

Then he shows up in New England in 1993.

Of course he screwed New England too. And then the Jets. And then the Cowboys. And then the Dolphins.

Learn your history if you're going to use it to try to make a point.

And really, you're going to complain about the Maras?


This^

Mod_C
12-20-2011, 12:14 PM
Who is ranting and raving...you are an idiot and a NYG bot!

Let's try to just make points without insulting each other and name calling.

Gianthunter
12-20-2011, 12:19 PM
No they are not. They only play one on TV.

Tony Bruno
12-20-2011, 01:42 PM
Ummm no... The organization is one of the classiest in the league... We have had the same ownership for years... We have stood the test of time and still win superbowls...

I think that TC and Co. have pretty much hit the end of the road but that isnt something to discredit them or the organization...

We have been delt bad cards with injuries and whatnot.. I think that it would be tough for any organization from the GM down to the players to overcome some of this...

The only person Im pretty fed up with is KG... I feel that his style of O isnt what the Giants are used to... I can also same the same for PF as he doesnt play the D they were a accustomed to as well..

TroyArcher
12-20-2011, 02:15 PM
Twenty years of mediocrity before Parcel's came along...what did owners and GM do? Ran him out of town... Under TC same o same o...with exception of one Superbowl that I credit to Spag's defense. Today, headed to our fourth year second half collapse under TC. Clean house from Reece down....find ownership that really takes action to create sustained excellence and sell the team Fans deserve more than we've gotten for the past 40 years!!!!</P>


</P>


Run Parcells out of town? Talk about revisionist history. Sorry to use such a big word. It means you are lying about the past. Parcells wanted to go and showed that time and tiome again with other organizations. The Giants have played in 4 and won 3 SB's in the past 25 years. There are only 2-3 other teams in the NFL that have been as successful during that time.</P>

SweetZombieJesus
12-20-2011, 02:36 PM
Ummm no... The organization is one of the classiest in the league... We have had the same ownership for years... We have stood the test of time and still win superbowls...

I guess I have to go back to the dusty old resume for the Giants.

<ul> Competed for championships in every single decade but the 1970s. That's 8 out of 9 decades not including this one which is still young. That's long term excellence.
Played in 18 championship games with a title on the line. Played in 6 title games in 8 years (56 58 59 61 62 63).
Only team to win Super Bowls in 3 consecutive decades.
Tied with the Cowboys for most playoff appearances in NFL history Very few NFL owners are on the same plateau as the Maras. Maybe the Halas' and Rooneys.
[/list]

YATittle1962
12-20-2011, 02:39 PM
Ummm no... The organization is one of the classiest in the league... We have had the same ownership for years... We have stood the test of time and still win superbowls...

I think that TC and Co. have pretty much hit the end of the road but that isnt something to discredit them or the organization...

We have been delt bad cards with injuries and whatnot.. I think that it would be tough for any organization from the GM down to the players to overcome some of this...

The only person Im pretty fed up with is KG... I feel that his style of O isnt what the Giants are used to... I can also same the same for PF as he doesnt play the D they were a accustomed to as well..

same ownership for years?

how about since the teams inception

simms56
12-20-2011, 05:15 PM
As difficult as it has been since the Plex shooting you would have to be under 25 to not appreciate being a Giants fan. They are absolutely, without question, a top 5 franchise in the NFL. And by that I am saying historically and in the modern era, which I would say is since the Dwight Clark catch or so. Really the only franchise you could argue with certainty on being at least on par or better is the Packers. They are in it for the long haul but if you watched that team in the 80's...ugghhh....not pretty. Other contenders would be the Bears (similar to the Giants in many ways but I would still pick Giants), and the Steelers/49ers. People forget just how bad the Steelers were until the 70's. They were dreadful. The Niners have had their share of being bad too. The Cowboys are on fairly equal footing but how AWFUL would it be to throw yourself into that lot? I have never seen another franchise with more ludicrously absurd fans....Giants, Eagles, Duke/UNC, SEC, Yankees, Red Sox fans, etc. can't come within a country universe of that blind homerism.

Weygand
12-20-2011, 05:31 PM
Twenty years of mediocrity before Parcel's came along...what did owners and GM do? Ran him out of town...

Under TC same o same o...with exception of one Superbowl that I credit to Spag's defense.

Today, headed to our fourth year second half collapse under TC.

Clean house from Reece down....find ownership that really takes action to create sustained excellence and sell the team

Fans deserve more than we've gotten for the past 40 years!!!!

The sad thing is three seasons ago we were the #1 seed...now we're hoping for 8-8 and the 9ers are back on top of the NFC.

Where have you gone Wellington Mara? A fanbase turns its lonely eyes to you.

jakegibbs
12-20-2011, 05:42 PM
Twenty years of mediocrity before Parcel's came along...what did owners and GM do? Ran him out of town...

Under TC same o same o...with exception of one Superbowl that I credit to Spag's defense.

Today, headed to our fourth year second half collapse under TC.

Clean house from Reece down....find ownership that really takes action to create sustained excellence and sell the team

Fans deserve more than we've gotten for the past 40 years!!!!

How can you make an owner sell his team? If he owns it he has to want to sell it. He can't be made can he?

Weygand
12-20-2011, 05:44 PM
How can you make an owner sell his team? If he owns it he has to want to sell it. He can't be made can he?

Make him an offer he can't refuse.

barran21
12-20-2011, 06:25 PM
I love this mediocre franchise...

NYG 5
12-20-2011, 06:26 PM
While the Giants have been successful, they have another attribute unique to them.

They don't just lose. They suffer disasters.

How many bitter defeats do they suffer? All the miracle games that go against them? Sure, they finally got that dramatic win with the super bowl, but they're on the losing side of a lot of climactic games.

Also, they've had a lot of their success pillaged by other teams. Losing Landry and Lombardi were disastrous.

And don't forget, how soon plans were laid down to destroy old Giants Stadium just to get in on the "who's got the biggest johnson" stadium competiton with the other owners. Destroying the home of the Giants to make more money and share as equals with loser jets in an ugly building, disastrous! At least they paid for it themselves and didn't take money from the state the way Jerry did, although PSLs almost defeat the purpose.

UK-Giantsfan
12-21-2011, 06:38 AM
I love this mediocre franchise...


nice work barran

the only thing mediocre in this thread is the rationale of the original poster

Tony Bruno
12-21-2011, 02:58 PM
Ummm no... The organization is one of the classiest in the league... We have had the same ownership for years... We have stood the test of time and still win superbowls...

I think that TC and Co. have pretty much hit the end of the road but that isnt something to discredit them or the organization...

We have been delt bad cards with injuries and whatnot.. I think that it would be tough for any organization from the GM down to the players to overcome some of this...

The only person Im pretty fed up with is KG... I feel that his style of O isnt what the Giants are used to... I can also same the same for PF as he doesnt play the D they were a accustomed to as well..

same ownership for years?

how about since the teams inception

Sorry dude... My bad... I know this just didnt realize I had to be so specific.... ;-)