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BuffyBlueII
11-15-2012, 04:45 PM
Are you saying Hostetler ran a 4.28 40yd?!

No I am not. That was a typo. Hoss ran a 4.48 40 which is still fast as heck for a QB.

I think Bobby Gee the 3 was clocked at 4.38 and Mike Vick was clocked at 4.3 at their combines.

BuffyBlueII
11-15-2012, 04:56 PM
The fact that we won with Hoss is a combination of things. Excellence in coaching, and player execution of that game plan, along with the added dimension Hoss brought with his legs. I know you've thrown a lot of praise at our o-line back then but if my memory is correct, Hoss got the crap beat out of him despite being able to run.

I absolutely think we can win a game with David Carr at quarterback.

I also believe there is no way in hell we would have won the Super Bowl in 2007 without Plaxico. If Eli didn't have Plax that year it would have been real ugly around here.

Anyway, why is it people feel the need to try and rip Phil. Phil is #1 color guy on CBS, and he gets paid to talk about football. All the fuss is silly.

Besides some guys are big Simms fans and others love Eli. To each his own.

I have a good memory too and our offensive line back then was a heck more stout than it is now.

We not winning if David Carr starts. David Carrs job is to look good for the cameras while he holds the clip board. I like David Carr but I think we can do better at backup. Perhaps Coach Coughlin just wanted to give him a safe spot to recover from the hits he took while QB of Texans. Heck, judging from the Carolina Panthers game that he came in to do mop up duty for, the guy still has some serious PTSD.

Not gonna argue that Plaxico made some brilliant catches and we saw how quickly our offense derailed when he Cheddar Bobbed himself. However, Mark Bavarro with his great hands and ability to gain YAC was a great security blanket for PhiL Simms.

Phil said what he said and he thinks it to be true. I don’t agree with him but I really don’t care either.

I think Eli Manning is a better QB than Phil Simms was but that doesn’t mean I am not a Phil Simms fan. Phil was an awesome NY Giant and will always be remembered with love and fondness by me. The guy was and still can be a cranky schmuck at times but so what. I think he has often in his mind played the what if game like a lot of us fans have. I am sure that he thinks if he had been on a different team with a different coach that he would have had way better stats. I am sure that getting hurt the year we beat Buffalo Bills in SuperBowl XXV still hurts because that would have been an awesome statistical as well as winning season for him and in my opinion it would have been his ticket to Canton.

Morehead State
11-15-2012, 05:18 PM
I have a good memory too and our offensive line back then was a heck more stout than it is now.

We not winning if David Carr starts. David Carrs job is to look good for the cameras while he holds the clip board. I like David Carr but I think we can do better at backup. Perhaps Coach Coughlin just wanted to give him a safe spot to recover from the hits he took while QB of Texans. Heck, judging from the Carolina Panthers game that he came in to do mop up duty for, the guy still has some serious PTSD.

Not gonna argue that Plaxico made some brilliant catches and we saw how quickly our offense derailed when he Cheddar Bobbed himself. However, Mark Bavarro with his great hands and ability to gain YAC was a great security blanket for PhiL Simms.

Phil said what he said and he thinks it to be true. I don’t agree with him but I really don’t care either.

I think Eli Manning is a better QB than Phil Simms was but that doesn’t mean I am not a Phil Simms fan. Phil was an awesome NY Giant and will always be remembered with love and fondness by me. The guy was and still can be a cranky schmuck at times but so what. I think he has often in his mind played the what if game like a lot of us fans have. I am sure that he thinks if he had been on a different team with a different coach that he would have had way better stats. I am sure that getting hurt the year we beat Buffalo Bills in SuperBowl XXV still hurts because that would have been an awesome statistical as well as winning season for him and in my opinion it would have been his ticket to Canton.

I agree that David Carr sucks and that we would not win a lot without Eli for that reason. I've never been happy with our backup QB situation.

And as for our O line when Phil was here...It was lousy for most of his career. He had friggin Brad Benson protecting his blind side. Benson had one good game against Dexter Manley and that was about it. Now later when Jumbo and Eric Moore came along they had a very good O line. But don't forget that several years ago ours was considered one of, if not the best O line in football.

joemorrisforprez
11-15-2012, 05:26 PM
60 pages or bust!!!!

TheEnigma
11-15-2012, 05:39 PM
Yeah, Eli actually had some pretty good O-lines to work with early on in his career. Just ashame we couldn't have a good O-line and 2011 Eli at the same time.

johnson
11-15-2012, 05:47 PM
60 pages or bust!!!!

http://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/Sloth_f3b828_743517.gif

bigjeep
11-15-2012, 06:10 PM
I'm going for 100 posts!

We should have passed on Eli and picked a cornerback! Then take Tebow in the second round!

sharick88
11-15-2012, 08:24 PM
I'm going for 100 posts!

We should have passed on Eli and picked a cornerback! Then take Tebow in the second round!

Let's trade Eli to the Raiders this off season for Carson Palmer!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

Rudyy
11-15-2012, 08:29 PM
Let's trade Eli to the Raiders this off season for Carson Palmer!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOLWhy are you laughing? That's a great trade.

sharick88
11-15-2012, 08:44 PM
Why are you laughing? That's a great trade.

Just as good as a JPP for Richard Seymour deal :)

Rudyy
11-15-2012, 08:51 PM
Just as good as a JPP for Richard Seymour deal :)Who wouldn't do that!

Roosevelt
11-15-2012, 08:53 PM
You seem hell bent on stating that Simms was a braver and tougher QB than Eli. Agree to disagree lol.

Okay. But all I was saying is that Phil didn't worry about getting hit after a pass, while Eli does. Nothing wrong with that, and I did praise Eli because he's never missed a game.

And I'm not questioning Eli's toughness. He may not look tough but he obviously is tough.

Ruttiger711
11-15-2012, 08:57 PM
Okay. But all I was saying is that Phil didn't worry about getting hit after a pass, while Eli does. Nothing wrong with that, and I did praise Eli because he's never missed a game.

And I'm not questioning Eli's toughness. He may not look tough but he obviously is tough.


ehhhh.... im sure if you were to ask Simms himself he would say of course he was worried about getting hit. Simms was no he-man.

Blanket statements that Eli "worries" about anything are really just speculation.

Now Dave Brown, THAT was a qb worried about getting hit.

http://media.silive.com/giants_impact/photo/9055494-large.jpg

Roosevelt
11-15-2012, 09:52 PM
I have a good memory too and our offensive line back then was a heck more stout than it is now.

We not winning if David Carr starts. David Carrs job is to look good for the cameras while he holds the clip board. I like David Carr but I think we can do better at backup. Perhaps Coach Coughlin just wanted to give him a safe spot to recover from the hits he took while QB of Texans. Heck, judging from the Carolina Panthers game that he came in to do mop up duty for, the guy still has some serious PTSD.

Not gonna argue that Plaxico made some brilliant catches and we saw how quickly our offense derailed when he Cheddar Bobbed himself. However, Mark Bavarro with his great hands and ability to gain YAC was a great security blanket for PhiL Simms.

Phil said what he said and he thinks it to be true. I don’t agree with him but I really don’t care either.

I think Eli Manning is a better QB than Phil Simms was but that doesn’t mean I am not a Phil Simms fan. Phil was an awesome NY Giant and will always be remembered with love and fondness by me. The guy was and still can be a cranky schmuck at times but so what. I think he has often in his mind played the what if game like a lot of us fans have. I am sure that he thinks if he had been on a different team with a different coach that he would have had way better stats. I am sure that getting hurt the year we beat Buffalo Bills in SuperBowl XXV still hurts because that would have been an awesome statistical as well as winning season for him and in my opinion it would have been his ticket to Canton.
,
I have to admit, what I saw of Carr this year was not pretty. But a couple years ago he looked pretty good. Looked like he had a good arm while he has his issues dealing with pressure.

I think you are spot on with your assessment that I put in bold. Phil knew Bill Walsh was interested in him and the feeling was mutual. But I don't think Phil has any regrets about his career. His 86 Super Bowl performance catapulted his career in a sense that the result was that everyone acknowledged him as a legitimate high level QB. Remember, there were many fans who felt Phil could never win the big game. Not only did he prove them wrong with that game, he made them look like complete idiots.

The second Super Bowl definitely hurt. He has said that he felt like an outsider because he wasn't in there helping the team. He felt like like more of a distraction. But I think now he has grown to appreciate that second ring and the roll he played in that season. No doubt in my mind he'd be a shoe-in for Canton had he been the winning QB in the game.

Roosevelt
11-15-2012, 10:04 PM
ehhhh.... im sure if you were to ask Simms himself he would say of course he was worried about getting hit. Simms was no he-man.

Blanket statements that Eli "worries" about anything are really just speculation.

Now Dave Brown, THAT was a qb worried about getting hit.

http://media.silive.com/giants_impact/photo/9055494-large.jpg

I try not to talk out my *** much.

I've read one of Phil's books where he discussed what it's like getting hit as a football player. So I stand by my comments.

I didn't say Eli openly worries about getting hit. He tries to avoid getting hit more so than Phil did. But I've watched Eli (this year) throw off his back foot when he had no immediate danger. It was apparent that he was reacting to pressure that didn't truly exist. Think it was against the Cowboys...

But if you think I'm off base then let me ask you this: why did our GM call him skittish just a few years ago?

Ruttiger711
11-15-2012, 10:23 PM
I try not to talk out my *** much.

I've read one of Phil's books where he discussed what it's like getting hit as a football player. So I stand by my comments.

I didn't say Eli openly worries about getting hit. He tries to avoid getting hit more so than Phil did. But I've watched Eli (this year) throw off his back foot when he had no immediate danger. It was apparent that he was reacting to pressure that didn't truly exist. Think it was against the Cowboys...

But if you think I'm off base then let me ask you this: why did our GM call him skittish just a few years ago?

I see some trying to paint Simms as though he would go to the sidelines and chew on some glass... to me Simms was a great Giants QB... to others he's their hero and they shine a light on him brighter than the light they chastise Eli worshiper's for.

Reese called him skittish around this time of year in 2007..and it was in reference to his play at that particular time. As everyone knows he wasnt playing this best football..and thats what he was commenting on...he wasnt branding him and he refused to talk about it further because he saw how the media put such a magnified negative spin on what he said. You cant really blame the media for it though, but he sure as hell hasnt called him skittish since... its funny how thats some sort of "ace up the sleeve" to pull out as though it means something.

Please share Simms' comments - not being sarcastic, truly interested.

Roosevelt
11-15-2012, 10:53 PM
I see some trying to paint Simms as though he would go to the sidelines and chew on some glass... to me Simms was a great Giants QB... to others he's their hero and they shine a light on him brighter than the light they chastise Eli worshiper's for.

Reese called him skittish around this time of year in 2007..and it was in reference to his play at that particular time. As everyone knows he wasnt playing this best football..and thats what he was commenting on...he wasnt branding him and he refused to talk about it further because he saw how the media put such a magnified negative spin on what he said. You cant really blame the media for it though, but he sure as hell hasnt called him skittish since... its funny how thats some sort of "ace up the sleeve" to pull out as though it means something.

Please share Simms' comments - not being sarcastic, truly interested.

I think it means that our line needed to do a better job of protecting Eli. Looking at Eli's career vs Phil's injury-riddled career, you can surely make a case for the way Eli plays the game. Some may perceive him as not being tough while others realize that in the long run, he's very smart.

The thing I recall about Phil's comments was that as a player you get this 'tough-guy' mentality in which you get a charge out of withstanding those hits. As the season progresses you become desensitized to it as your body actually gets used to the abuse. Of course looking back on it now, Phil has said that he has wondered how his career might have been different had he played the way Eli plays.

zimonami
11-15-2012, 11:15 PM
I think it means that our line needed to do a better job of protecting Eli. Looking at Eli's career vs Phil's injury-riddled career, you can surely make a case for the way Eli plays the game. Some may perceive him as not being tough while others realize that in the long run, he's very smart.

The thing I recall about Phil's comments was that as a player you get this 'tough-guy' mentality in which you get a charge out of withstanding those hits. As the season progresses you become desensitized to it as your body actually gets used to the abuse. Of course looking back on it now, Phil has said that he has wondered how his career might have been different had he played the way Eli plays.
Exactly, Ro. Eli definitely tries to play smart... minimize the chances of taking an unnecessary hit.
Phil never took a step back. He defied hits, knowingly stepping into big hits many times every game, just to complete a pass with the best follow through. Eli starts moving his weight backwards, often throwing off of the wrong foot, as he minimizes the hit. I don't for one second think Eli is afraid... he's simply trying to minimize his body... his consecutive games played is testimony to that. Phil was often injured.

Ruttiger711
11-15-2012, 11:39 PM
Exactly, Ro. Eli definitely tries to play smart... minimize the chances of taking an unnecessary hit. Phil never took a step back. He defied hits, knowingly stepping into big hits many times every game, just to complete a pass with the best follow through. Eli starts moving his weight backwards, often throwing off of the wrong foot, as he minimizes the hit. I don't for one second think Eli is afraid... he's simply trying to minimize his body... his consecutive games played is testimony to that. Phil was often injured.I think he's even said as much - that he tries to wait to the last possible second and it was sometimes at the sacrifice of some fundamentals. How people are translating that into fear, I don't know - I cant make that connection.

eml
11-15-2012, 11:49 PM
This may be the thread that goes into the guinness book of records. I sat in those stands watching Mr. Simms and he was often inconsistent and I watched Parcells go redder in the face than TC when Simms got to the sidelines. I've heard Simms before make those kind of comments about his former team. He won the 86 SB and Hostetler won the playoffs and SB in '90. Guess who helped Simms stay in games. Yes Taylor and the rest of the 'lights out' defense. Carl Banks does commentary as well and tells it like it is but he provides excellent insight on why the play didn't devolpe and how it could have worked. I never heard him say anything like Simms does.

zimonami
11-16-2012, 12:06 AM
I think he's even said as much - that he tries to wait to the last possible second and it was sometimes at the sacrifice of some fundamentals. How people are translating that into fear, I don't know - I cant make that connection.
Me neither. I've never seen fear in Eli's eyes. Frustration is the one I see the most when he's hit hard and doesn't complete the pass. Once in a while anger at a receiver going to the wrong spot. It's at times like that, when Eli gets frustrated, and/or angry, that he looks like a whiney brat... which I know makes some people dislike him. It's just the way his face will always look. But, he's quite the opposite of whiney, or afraid. Just a level headed, gooney looking guy who enjoys the competition. Accorsi knew exactly what Eli's temperment was like... easy Eli.

Ruttiger711
11-16-2012, 12:28 AM
This may be the thread that goes into the guinness book of records. I sat in those stands watching Mr. Simms and he was often inconsistent and I watched Parcells go redder in the face than TC when Simms got to the sidelines. I've heard Simms before make those kind of comments about his former team. He won the 86 SB and Hostetler won the playoffs and SB in '90. Guess who helped Simms stay in games. Yes Taylor and the rest of the 'lights out' defense. Carl Banks does commentary as well and tells it like it is but he provides excellent insight on why the play didn't devolpe and how it could have worked. I never heard him say anything like Simms does.No? Mr Banks can be BRUTAL doing his commentary, it's never without good reason though.

Roosevelt
11-16-2012, 12:29 AM
This may be the thread that goes into the guinness book of records. I sat in those stands watching Mr. Simms and he was often inconsistent and I watched Parcells go redder in the face than TC when Simms got to the sidelines. I've heard Simms before make those kind of comments about his former team. He won the 86 SB and Hostetler won the playoffs and SB in '90. Guess who helped Simms stay in games. Yes Taylor and the rest of the 'lights out' defense. Carl Banks does commentary as well and tells it like it is but he provides excellent insight on why the play didn't devolpe and how it could have worked. I never heard him say anything like Simms does.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think our offense with Eli has ever been ranked higher in a season in the NFL than our offense with Phil.

Funny how our memory works.

eml
11-16-2012, 12:40 AM
If Eli had Simm's defensive team he would have the ball back enough to far exceed any offense that Simms ran.

Morehead State
11-16-2012, 12:51 AM
If Eli had Simm's defensive team he would have the ball back enough to far exceed any offense that Simms ran.
What color is the sky in your world?

sharick88
11-16-2012, 12:56 AM
If Eli had Simm's defensive team he would have the ball back enough to far exceed any offense that Simms ran.

Actually, I feel that if Simms played in today's NFL and had his receivers being able to run free, he would be pretty effective. Phil Simms had a receiving corps that was pretty average.The game today is way easier for a quarterback. I understand with you and agree with you to an extent, but it goes both ways.

Rat_bastich
11-16-2012, 01:29 AM
Actually, I feel that if Simms played in today's NFL and had his receivers being able to run free, he would be pretty effective. Phil Simms had a receiving corps that was pretty average.The game today is way easier for a quarterback. I understand with you and agree with you to an extent, but it goes both ways.

All of Simm's receivers are by what today's standards would be possession receivers. They caught the ball but usually didn't do a whole lot with it afterwards. They were not YAC guys for sure. I agree with you.

BuffyBlueII
11-16-2012, 03:59 AM
I see some trying to paint Simms as though he would go to the sidelines and chew on some glass... to me Simms was a great Giants QB... to others he's their hero and they shine a light on him brighter than the light they chastise Eli worshiper's for.

Reese called him skittish around this time of year in 2007..and it was in reference to his play at that particular time. As everyone knows he wasnt playing this best football..and thats what he was commenting on...he wasnt branding him and he refused to talk about it further because he saw how the media put such a magnified negative spin on what he said. You cant really blame the media for it though, but he sure as hell hasnt called him skittish since... its funny how thats some sort of "ace up the sleeve" to pull out as though it means something.

Please share Simms' comments - not being sarcastic, truly interested.

During the 2007 season, Eli Manning had a shoulder injury and they wanted him to sit 3-4 games to rest it and he refused.

BuffyBlueII
11-16-2012, 04:04 AM
Me neither. I've never seen fear in Eli's eyes. Frustration is the one I see the most when he's hit hard and doesn't complete the pass. Once in a while anger at a receiver going to the wrong spot. It's at times like that, when Eli gets frustrated, and/or angry, that he looks like a whiney brat... which I know makes some people dislike him. It's just the way his face will always look. But, he's quite the opposite of whiney, or afraid. Just a level headed, gooney looking guy who enjoys the competition. Accorsi knew exactly what Eli's temperment was like... easy Eli.

EA stated that there were 2 things that seperated Eli Manning from the rest of the QBs in the draft and that is the size of his left testicle and the size of his right testicle. EA knew Eli Manning is fearless on the football field and EA sticking to his guns and making the deal for Eli Manning is still paying dividends.

BuffyBlueII
11-16-2012, 04:05 AM
What color is the sky in your world?

The sky is Carolina Blue. That is how we know that God is a TarHeel.

BuffyBlueII
11-16-2012, 04:06 AM
All of Simm's receivers are by what today's standards would be possession receivers. They caught the ball but usually didn't do a whole lot with it afterwards. They were not YAC guys for sure. I agree with you.

However his TE was. Mark Bavarro was a big YAC guy. If Eli were on that team as QB instead of Phil, Mark Bavarro might have had Gronkowski type of numbers.

Morehead State
11-16-2012, 09:58 AM
During the 2007 season, Eli Manning had a shoulder injury and they wanted him to sit 3-4 games to rest it and he refused.
Who is "they".
The only thing that happened there is that the injury was misreported by Mortenson.

Ruttiger711
11-16-2012, 10:52 AM
Who is "they".
The only thing that happened there is that the injury was misreported by Mortenson.

The injury wasnt misreported... the time away he would need was.

Diamondring
11-16-2012, 10:55 AM
Eli is an Elite pocket passer but all qbs need talent around them so Simms is wrong to me.

Morehead State
11-16-2012, 10:58 AM
The injury wasnt misreported... the time away he would need was.
I disagree. They reported that he couldn't throw the ball with that injury. It wasn't a serious injury at all. I', not taking anything away from Eli because I'm sure it was something he had to deal with. But if he could throw the ball (which he could) I expect our QB to play.
Do you disagree?

Ruttiger711
11-16-2012, 11:08 AM
I disagree. They reported that he couldn't throw the ball with that injury. It wasn't a serious injury at all. I', not taking anything away from Eli because I'm sure it was something he had to deal with. But if he could throw the ball (which he could) I expect our QB to play.
Do you disagree?

oh definitely I would expect the same... Its not like he broke his pinky.

I dont remember the report of him not being able to throw, just that Mortensen said he could be out 4 even 6 weeks before actually even knowing the extent of the injury. I think he was reporting this the next day.

Morehead State
11-16-2012, 11:11 AM
oh definitely I would expect the same... Its not like he broke his pinky.

I dont remember the report of him not being able to throw, just that Mortensen said he could be out 4 even 6 weeks before actually even knowing the extent of the injury. I think he was reporting this the next day.
Again...it was bad reporting. Forgetting Mortenson, the injury wasn't serious if he could throw the ball normally which he could. No it wasn't a pinky, but it also wasn't a Jack Youngblood broken leg either.

Morehead State
11-16-2012, 11:12 AM
Again...it was bad reporting. Forgetting Mortenson, the injury wasn't serious if he could throw the ball normally which he could. No it wasn't a pinky, but it also wasn't a Jack Youngblood broken leg either.

BTW...a broken pinky on his passing hand would have probably kept him out.

CowboysSuck
11-16-2012, 11:15 AM
So is it official?

Simms will hopefully no longer be announcing Giant games? If he does I dont' want to hear him say a single good thing about Eli.


OMFG you know what my reply just reminded me about... I had a dream last night. And I think it was Lincoln from Prison Break I somehow met...but the guy kept telling me he was Kerry Collins. He wouldn't give it up. I was like are you a drunk? Wheres the 5 o clock shadow? Are you really Kerry Collins, gtfo. THERES NO WAY YOU'RE KERRY COLLINS! And he was just like...yes man, yes I'm Kerry Collins whats the big deal? It was the strangest thing ever. hahaha

Diamondring
11-16-2012, 11:18 AM
People shouldn't hate on Sims cause what he said about Eli. Simms was a former retired qb and Eli is the current qb. He hasn't retired and what if he went to another team and said somthing you didn't like about Simms?

Ruttiger711
11-16-2012, 11:20 AM
BTW...a broken pinky on his passing hand would have probably kept him out.

Yes of course... it was really just a jab at Romo.... Its legit, but it still seems pretty weak to be out for a pinky.

CowboysSuck
11-16-2012, 11:20 AM
People shouldn't hate on Sims cause what he said about Eli. Simms was a former retired qb and Eli is the current qb. He hasn't retired and what if he went to another team and said somthing you didn't like about Simms?.

What if Eli went to another team, and then said something negative about Phil Simms QB skills to the media?

How unrealistic is that?

Morehead State
11-16-2012, 11:40 AM
Yes of course... it was really just a jab at Romo.... Its legit, but it still seems pretty weak to be out for a pinky.
Its really not. Passing the ball requires feel. I suppose you could play with a broken pinky but you would suck because you would have no control of the ball as it left your hand. Not a matter of being tough or not, just a matter of the mechanics of throwing a football.

Ruttiger711
11-16-2012, 11:42 AM
Its really not. Passing the ball requires feel. I suppose you could play with a broken pinky but you would suck because you would have no control of the ball as it left your hand. Not a matter of being tough or not, just a matter of the mechanics of throwing a football.

I wasnt disagreeing with you man. :confused:

Morehead State
11-16-2012, 11:43 AM
I wasnt disagreeing with you man. :confused:
I know. I was rambling.

Harooni
11-16-2012, 11:48 AM
you are on some serious drugs people. Simms would tear this league up in todays pass friendly rules and pure speed talent at the WR position. He was very accurate and played well even at home during nov/dec , i know a QB that cant say that.

RoanokeFan
11-16-2012, 11:51 AM
you are on some serious drugs people. Simms would tear this league up in todays pass friendly rules and pure speed talent at the WR position. He was very accurate and played well even at home during nov/dec , i know a QB that cant say that.

Are you just trying for 100 pages now? lol

RoanokeFan
11-16-2012, 11:51 AM
I know. I was rambling.

Rambling? You? Odd

Ruttiger711
11-16-2012, 11:53 AM
you are on some serious drugs people. Simms would tear this league up in todays pass friendly rules and pure speed talent at the WR position. He was very accurate and played well even at home during nov/dec , i know a QB that cant say that.

just a little more bait - you can do better than that

Morehead State
11-16-2012, 11:55 AM
Rambling? You? Odd
Isn't it?

RoanokeFan
11-16-2012, 12:42 PM
Isn't it?

Like Leap Year

BuffyBlueII
11-16-2012, 12:44 PM
Who is "they".
The only thing that happened there is that the injury was misreported by Mortenson.

On the “Americas Game” video that covers that year, Eli Manning speaks about the doctor telling him he needed to sit for a month and that he said he wouldn’t because he wasn’t going to miss any games.

Harooni
11-16-2012, 12:45 PM
Are you just trying for 100 pages now? lol 70 !!!!

Rudyy
11-16-2012, 12:46 PM
70 !!!!700!

BuffyBlueII
11-16-2012, 12:48 PM
Its really not. Passing the ball requires feel. I suppose you could play with a broken pinky but you would suck because you would have no control of the ball as it left your hand. Not a matter of being tough or not, just a matter of the mechanics of throwing a football.

A shoulder injury also has to do with messing up the mechanics of throwing a football.

BuffyBlueII
11-16-2012, 12:50 PM
you are on some serious drugs people. Simms would tear this league up in todays pass friendly rules and pure speed talent at the WR position. He was very accurate and played well even at home during nov/dec , i know a QB that cant say that.

If Eli Manning had played back then on that NY Giants team with the offensive line, running game and defense we had, he would have won 3-4 SuperBowls. Also, Eli Manning would never leave the sidelines of a SuperBowl his team was playing in because he felt “in the way” and was upset that Jeff Hosstettler was out there. I know a QB that did do that.

MattMeyerBud
11-16-2012, 01:24 PM
"No, he is not one of the elites," Simms said in quotes distributed by CBS. "Because when I hear the word elite, I'm thinking about guys that can make unbelievable plays on the field by themselves. There are very few quarterbacks in that category.

"So yes, Eli has been a tremendous team player. He has been MVP of the Super Bowl twice. I know that. But the way I look at it, the answer is no."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/simms-eli-nfl-elite-qbs-article-1.1201145#ixzz2C8Eaubto

Here we go again.....

so Simms thinks hes a HOFer but not elite....

that makes complete sense

Rusty192
11-16-2012, 01:27 PM
Okay. But all I was saying is that Phil didn't worry about getting hit after a pass, while Eli does. Nothing wrong with that, and I did praise Eli because he's never missed a game.

And I'm not questioning Eli's toughness. He may not look tough but he obviously is tough.So perhaps Simms doesn't mind getting hit. Perhaps Eli also doesn't mind getting smashed either, but is smart enough to contort his body to take the blow. lol Hence the longevity of his career.

sharick88
11-16-2012, 01:28 PM
so Simms thinks hes a HOFer but not elite....

that makes complete sense

In my John McClain voice, WELCOME TO THE PARTY PAL!!!!!

sharick88
11-16-2012, 01:29 PM
700!

That might be possible.

MattMeyerBud
11-16-2012, 01:31 PM
In my John McClain voice, WELCOME TO THE PARTY PAL!!!!!

hahaha Simms has steadily declined in my eyes since i started watching Inside hte NFL again

sharick88
11-16-2012, 01:34 PM
hahaha Simms has steadily declined in my eyes since i started watching Inside hte NFL again

I actually had more of a problem with what he said about Marino, Fouts, and Moon (all hall of fame qb's), than I did with what he said about Eli. He's losing his mind. His son Chris must have slipped him a Mickey.

Delicreep
11-16-2012, 01:39 PM
Can someone save me some time: have we resolved this?

sharick88
11-16-2012, 01:40 PM
Can someone save me some time: have we resolved this?

Come on, you know that this is an ongoing battle with no end.

Rusty192
11-16-2012, 01:44 PM
Can someone save me some time: have we resolved this?It's very fun. The debate is whether Eli or Phil like getting crushed by 300+ lb linemen.....

Hooligans
11-16-2012, 02:06 PM
Eli's own Mother and Father know he isn't an elite QB...........but they know that Peyton is.

GameTime
11-16-2012, 02:07 PM
Eli's own Mother and Father know he isn't an elite QB...........but they know that Peyton is.

and I dont think they care either way.....

Harooni
11-16-2012, 02:11 PM
Eli's own Mother and Father know he isn't an elite QB...........but they know that Peyton is. i think they knew and that is why his father insisted Eli play on a great team.

GameTime
11-16-2012, 02:14 PM
i think they knew and that is why his father insisted Eli play on a great team.

had nothing to do with Eli's talent level. His family wanted Eli with a class organization. Not one like SD.
What parent wouldn't help their child with a life changing decision??

Harooni
11-16-2012, 02:37 PM
this is elite



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKRScrC9i34

GameTime
11-16-2012, 02:43 PM
this is elite



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKRScrC9i34

one game....a historical game at that. I love Simms But Elite he is not......

Harooni
11-16-2012, 02:47 PM
one game....a historical game at that. I love Simms But Elite he is not...... this is the biggest stage. its not 1 td in the fourth qtr its not a duck and chuck heave throw. if you notice his passes hit the numbers not jump balls. that is a real QB. sorry eli is good but this is legend status

Morehead State
11-16-2012, 02:55 PM
this is elite



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKRScrC9i34
There are only one or two QB's today who can throw the ball like that.
Those were friggin darts.
When Phil got on the biggest stage.....He threw a perfect game.

sharick88
11-16-2012, 03:04 PM
Phil wasn't elite IMO, but that was the best single game I have seen any giants QB play.

Harooni
11-16-2012, 03:05 PM
There are only one or two QB's today who can throw the ball like that.
Those were friggin darts.
When Phil got on the biggest stage.....He threw a perfect game. look at those tight spirals. man i miss those the foot work the proper mechanics. these young guys have gotten lazy at Qb.

Sarcasman
11-16-2012, 03:06 PM
Can someone save me some time: have we resolved this?

Completely. It was solved 543 posts ago.

Sarcasman
11-16-2012, 03:10 PM
this is elite



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKRScrC9i34


That first pass of the 2nd quarter was the crappiest pass I've ever seen ever. What a bum.

Harooni
11-16-2012, 03:11 PM
Phil wasn't elite IMO, but that was the best single game I have seen any giants QB play. i think if he had real receivers he would have been , mcConkey was smallish. and if the rules where better to protect a QB from injurys back then. he had the quick release the accurace the foot work and was athletic

Harooni
11-16-2012, 03:12 PM
That first pass of the 2nd quarter was the crappiest pass I've ever seen ever. What a bum. mc
Conkey was held ,lol

Morehead State
11-16-2012, 03:16 PM
mc
Conkey was held ,lol
When I hear people say that Eli has a better arm that Phil I go absolutely nuts. It has be be guys who didn't see Phil play. Phil had an absolute cannon and a very quick delivery. You can argue about who was better, but no one threw a better ball than Phil.

Roosevelt
11-16-2012, 03:24 PM
so Simms thinks hes a HOFer but not elite....

that makes complete sense

He may have a point. Guys like Joe Namath, Bob Griese, Len Dawson, etc are all in the HOF, but they weren't elite QB's. The reason they are in the hall is has more to do about the circumstances than them being truly great players.

Simms himself is in that category where he's was a very good/great QB but he wasn't elite.

Man, I hate that word.

joemorrisforprez
11-16-2012, 03:42 PM
60.....60...60....!!!!!!!

Harooni
11-16-2012, 03:49 PM
when you say HOF you are saying best QB in your time, clearly there are a few others competing for that. Eli does not lead the league in many stats since coming in, except ints

TheEnigma
11-16-2012, 03:54 PM
Neither Eli or Simms have "A Football Life" segment so they both aren't elite. That's how I measure QBs now.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXqd388A--I

This guy was elite.

Rudyy
11-16-2012, 03:56 PM
I'm elite.

TheEnigma
11-16-2012, 04:08 PM
I'm elite.

An elite BSer.

Harooni
11-16-2012, 04:10 PM
Neither Eli or Simms have "A Football Life" segment so they both aren't elite. That's how I measure QBs now.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXqd388A--I

This guy was elite.
legend. notice how he gets hit after throwing the ball over and over, today those are penalties the young guys benefit from.

Rusty192
11-16-2012, 04:10 PM
An elite BSer.That would be your department.

:cool:

ImElectric2
11-16-2012, 04:13 PM
when you say HOF you are saying best QB in your time, clearly there are a few others competing for that. Eli does not lead the league in many stats since coming in, except intsWell that and super bowl rings. I don't really care, just trying to push this thing to 60 lol

TheEnigma
11-16-2012, 04:14 PM
That would be your department.

:cool:

Just providing a service here. That's it and that's all man...

Am I elite though? It would mean the world to me to know I'm elite at my job.

Rudyy
11-16-2012, 04:18 PM
An elite BSer.I can live with that.

Harooni
11-16-2012, 04:20 PM
Well that and super bowl rings. I don't really care, just trying to push this thing to 60 lol well sb are team wins, imo that is why i consider dan marino the best , also the best movie role for a nfl player in ace ventura

Rusty192
11-16-2012, 04:26 PM
Just providing a service here. That's it and that's all man...http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/30333339.jpg

TheEnigma
11-16-2012, 04:32 PM
Awesome Fry meme

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/124/241/trolled-softly.jpg

zimonami
11-16-2012, 04:34 PM
one game....a historical game at that. I love Simms But Elite he is not......
This made my day... thank you

Morehead State
11-16-2012, 04:48 PM
He may have a point. Guys like Joe Namath, Bob Griese, Len Dawson, etc are all in the HOF, but they weren't elite QB's. The reason they are in the hall is has more to do about the circumstances than them being truly great players.

Simms himself is in that category where he's was a very good/great QB but he wasn't elite.

Man, I hate that word.
In today's world they have to label everything Rosie. No one had these kinds of conversations 20 years ago. Who's elite.....Who;s not. Its all vacuous nonsense.
Gone are the days we could just watch players and enjoy. We now have to justify our views with labels.

Rusty192
11-16-2012, 05:08 PM
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/124/241/trolled-softly.jpghttp://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcREh3qPTkzBzfNMYtVcYifMH30uOXchZ M9VDWpnDhrIXW8tVuKf0Q

ImElectric2
11-16-2012, 05:40 PM
well sb are team wins, imo that is why i consider dan marino the best , also the best movie role for a nfl player in ace venturaAhh, I like that. But, I may disagree on the movie role. Though slapstick, I love OJ in the naked gun films. Marino just had to play himself. OJ had some really funny faces in those movies right before getting messed up. Ace is an all time great movie, but is Marinos performance really elite? The rest of the cast really carried him. Take Einhorn away and I don't know that Marino even gets into the conversation :P

BuffyBlueII
11-16-2012, 05:41 PM
well sb are team wins, imo that is why i consider dan marino the best , also the best movie role for a nfl player in ace ventura

No way was that the best role for an NFL player. Brian Bozworth in Stone Cold was awesome.

MattMeyerBud
11-16-2012, 05:41 PM
Eli's own Mother and Father know he isn't an elite QB...........but they know that Peyton is.

Crrryyyyyyyy eagles crrrryyyyyyyy
Just a random thought: if I saw an eagles fan literally on a ledge of a building, I'd let him jump

MattMeyerBud
11-16-2012, 05:43 PM
When I hear people say that Eli has a better arm that Phil I go absolutely nuts. It has be be guys who didn't see Phil play. Phil had an absolute cannon and a very quick delivery. You can argue about who was better, but no one threw a better ball than Phil.

Eli is tougher, better, will win more superbowls, has a hitter wife, and will be in the HOF. I see why Simms and Simms enthusiasts are angry

MattMeyerBud
11-16-2012, 05:45 PM
He may have a point. Guys like Joe Namath, Bob Griese, Len Dawson, etc are all in the HOF, but they weren't elite QB's. The reason they are in the hall is has more to do about the circumstances than them being truly great players.

Simms himself is in that category where he's was a very good/great QB but he wasn't elite.

Man, I hate that word.

Those days are long gone. Nobody getting in, especially QB in this era will be somebody that doesn't truly deserve it. When Eli gets in it will stamp elite

MattMeyerBud
11-16-2012, 05:45 PM
And for the record, Moorhead still says Rivers is better than Eli

#donttrusthim

Morehead State
11-16-2012, 05:47 PM
And for the record, Moorhead still says Rivers is better than Eli

#donttrusthim
Rivers sucks right now.

Sarcasman
11-16-2012, 05:50 PM
mc
Conkey was held ,lol


WHA?? C'mon, you know the rules...it's always on the QB.

That's what I've read here. Over and over and over and over and over and...

Sarcasman
11-16-2012, 05:51 PM
When I hear people say that Eli has a better arm that Phil I go absolutely nuts. It has be be guys who didn't see Phil play. Phil had an absolute cannon and a very quick delivery. You can argue about who was better, but no one threw a better ball than Phil.

Not even Billy Kilmer.

Sarcasman
11-16-2012, 05:52 PM
Neither Eli or Simms have "A Football Life" segment so they both aren't elite. That's how I measure QBs now.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXqd388A--I

This guy was elite.

I concur! Martz was a good an offensive mind as this game has ever seen.

Morehead State
11-16-2012, 05:52 PM
Not even Billy Kilmer.
Hah!!!
Garo Yepremian showed a better arm in his one NFL pass than poor O'l Billie.

MattMeyerBud
11-16-2012, 05:53 PM
Rivers sucks right now.

Lol rivers has sucked for almost two full seasons. Eli has 4 subpar weeks and ur ready to nail him on the cross.

Morehead State
11-16-2012, 05:54 PM
Lol rivers has sucked for almost two full seasons. Eli has 4 subpar weeks and ur ready to nail him on the cross.
What does Philip Rivers have to do with Eli sucking for 4 weeks?

"sub-par".....you crack me up.

Sarcasman
11-16-2012, 05:55 PM
Hah!!!
Garo Yepremian showed a better arm in his one NFL pass than poor O'l Billie.

And here I was afraid that no one would be old to remember the old duck thrower...

RoanokeFan
11-16-2012, 05:57 PM
Rivers sucks right now.

So does .......NAH, we are getting close to the end of this thread

Morehead State
11-16-2012, 06:01 PM
And here I was afraid that no one would be old to remember the old duck thrower...
He did win football games.
Most people don't remember that it was Kilmer's fumbles (as a receiver) that Jim Marshall ran the wrong way with.

Sarcasman
11-16-2012, 06:06 PM
So does .......NAH, we are getting close to the end of this thread

Not if I can help it. I was just about to introduce the Ron Erhardt / Kevin Gilbride angle!

Sarcasman
11-16-2012, 06:07 PM
He did win football games.
Most people don't remember that it was Kilmer's fumbles (as a receiver) that Jim Marshall ran the wrong way with.

He did. Somehow he managed to get it done. At least until LT nearly killed him.

bigjeep
11-16-2012, 06:11 PM
Not if I can help it. I was just about to introduce the Ron Erhardt / Kevin Gilbride angle!

Y.A. vs Chucking Charley!

bigjeep
11-16-2012, 06:12 PM
And what about the all time horrible Sam Huff trade to Washington!

agentsinger
11-16-2012, 06:19 PM
Eli is elite! I also think Simms was a great quarterback. The reason he will not give Eli the credit he deserves is because anyone who was around to watch Phil knows that he did what he wanted to do and cried alot when Parcells kept him in check. I remember those years so well. The year Simms got hurt halfway through the season and Hostetler took them all the way, Simms didn't want the ring. He didn't feel that he earned it ??? I wonder if he treated others like they were beneath him by the way he is ??? Probably also upset that Chris didn't work out the way Eli did.

Roosevelt
11-16-2012, 06:34 PM
this is elite



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKRScrC9i34

Thanks for posting that. Brings back great memories.

Roosevelt
11-16-2012, 09:32 PM
one game....a historical game at that. I love Simms But Elite he is not......

Hence the words "this is elite."

Roosevelt
11-16-2012, 09:37 PM
this is the biggest stage. its not 1 td in the fourth qtr its not a duck and chuck heave throw. if you notice his passes hit the numbers not jump balls. that is a real QB. sorry eli is good but this is legend status

This is the thing we've been trying to tell the young guys. Phil was a great passer. If Phil had time his passes were money.

Eli will never be a truly great passer.

Roosevelt
11-16-2012, 09:38 PM
Phil wasn't elite IMO, but that was the best single game I have seen any giants QB play.

No doubt.

Roosevelt
11-16-2012, 09:44 PM
In today's world they have to label everything Rosie. No one had these kinds of conversations 20 years ago. Who's elite.....Who;s not. Its all vacuous nonsense.
Gone are the days we could just watch players and enjoy. We now have to justify our views with labels.

All because of Michael Kay and Eli!

Rusty192
11-16-2012, 09:47 PM
Phil wasn't elite IMO, but that was the best single game I have seen any giants QB play.


No doubt.It could be argued any QB for that matter.

Roosevelt
11-16-2012, 09:48 PM
He did win football games.
Most people don't remember that it was Kilmer's fumbles (as a receiver) that Jim Marshall ran the wrong way with.

I never knew that was Kilmer's fumble. Good trivia question.

If you're into that sort of thing like my uncle was.

BParcells777
11-16-2012, 10:42 PM
Simms is probably the best Football analyst since Madden.......Parcells is very good too

B&RWarrior
11-17-2012, 12:09 AM
Sims is right. This year Eli looks like the Eli before 2011 season. Even if he turns it on. He still had his erratic slump that he has every season save last year.

Harooni
11-17-2012, 01:35 AM
This is the thing we've been trying to tell the young guys. Phil was a great passer. If Phil had time his passes were money.

Eli will never be a truly great passer.

one thing eli is better at is reading the D and setting up his protection.

joemorrisforprez
11-17-2012, 03:53 AM
The quest for 70 pages is underway....

stormblue
11-17-2012, 09:26 AM
well , Simms had to watch and call that Bengals game on national tv.
i didn't see anything even closely related to "game manager" let alone elite.

and even though i think Simms ( who isn't elite either) should STFU about ELI ......he is still right.
i just wish he would steer clear of the subject.

GCGiant
11-17-2012, 09:35 AM
Off topic...but I wanted everybody to see this. This is my son and he has spent the week helping the NYPD. I hope this gains me some brownie points around here...

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s480x480/18105_437348036327483_1185156132_n.jpg

Gimaniac
11-17-2012, 09:43 AM
well , Simms had to watch and call that Bengals game on national tv.
i didn't see anything even closely related to "game manager" let alone elite.

and even though i think Simms ( who isn't elite either) should STFU about ELI ......he is still right.
i just wish he would steer clear of the subject.

That was Simms' chance to take a shot, hit him while he is down.

Where was he when Eli was hoisting Lombardies ?

DIPSET_ALL_DAY
11-17-2012, 09:57 AM
Off topic...but I wanted everybody to see this. This is my son and he has spent the week helping the NYPD. I hope this gains me some brownie points around here...

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s480x480/18105_437348036327483_1185156132_n.jpg He won't get any from me.

DIPSET_ALL_DAY
11-17-2012, 09:59 AM
That was Simms' chance to take a shot, hit him while he is down.

Where was he when Eli was hoisting Lombardies ? Exactly, and for the people saying Simms was better because he had a better o-line LAWL.

Someone forgot the 1986 Giants. Eli won both SB's with his back against the wall, we stumbled into the playoffs and had to rely on him being clutch. Simms wasn't clutch.

Ruttiger711
11-17-2012, 11:33 AM
Exactly, and for the people saying Simms was better because he had a better o-line LAWL.

Someone forgot the 1986 Giants. Eli won both SB's with his back against the wall, we stumbled into the playoffs and had to rely on him being clutch. Simms wasn't clutch.

You know after all 60+ pages of this thread i dont think the "clutch" factor was brought in yet.... ;) amazing - I think you guaranteed another 10 pages.

bigjeep
11-17-2012, 11:54 AM
You know after all 60+ pages of this thread i dont think the "clutch" factor was brought in yet.... ;) amazing - I think you guaranteed another 10 pages.

Who was "clutch"? Eli or Simms? No contest! Eli wins hands down. Two come from behind SB wins because our rotten defense can't hold a lead!

Diamondring
11-17-2012, 12:05 PM
Off topic...but I wanted everybody to see this. This is my son and he has spent the week helping the NYPD. I hope this gains me some brownie points around here...

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s480x480/18105_437348036327483_1185156132_n.jpgHe serves them the doughnuts? I'll take some to go please.

Roosevelt
11-17-2012, 12:51 PM
Exactly, and for the people saying Simms was better because he had a better o-line LAWL.

Someone forgot the 1986 Giants. Eli won both SB's with his back against the wall, we stumbled into the playoffs and had to rely on him being clutch. Simms wasn't clutch.

Was 4th and 17 clutch?

And let's not compare SB42 with SB46. Eli was two completely different players.

Roosevelt
11-17-2012, 12:54 PM
You know after all 60+ pages of this thread i dont think the "clutch" factor was brought in yet.... ;) amazing - I think you guaranteed another 10 pages.

Yeah, I jumped right on that and hit him with just one.

BuffyBlueII
11-17-2012, 01:16 PM
Was 4th and 17 clutch?

And let's not compare SB42 with SB46. Eli was two completely different players.

Eli Manning won those SuperBowls with two completely different sets of receivers, that is very impressive.

Eli Manning was purely brilliant in SuperBowl XLVI. He bailed the defense out again and again. He slowed the game down when our defense was gasping for breath and about to get blown out.

Eli Manning knew our defense couldn’t stop Tom Brady that day so he stopped him by keeping him on the sidelines.

BuffyBlueII
11-17-2012, 01:18 PM
Was 4th and 17 clutch?

And let's not compare SB42 with SB46. Eli was two completely different players.

That play against Minnesota is the only one you are going to be able to go to. Eli Manning is way more clutch than Phil Simms ever was. It is not even a contest.

22for25
11-17-2012, 01:48 PM
I'm pretty clutch.

Die-Hard
11-17-2012, 02:30 PM
The quest for 70 pages is underway....

It'll go straight downhill as soon as we get a few back from their suspensions, and the thread is almost guaranteed to get locked once that happens.

Gotta pick up the pace to 70 if you guys wanna see it happen!

Rudyy
11-17-2012, 02:37 PM
70 PAGES.
ALL IN!

bigjeep
11-17-2012, 02:57 PM
It'll go straight downhill as soon as we get a few back from their suspensions, and the thread is almost guaranteed to get locked once that happens.

Gotta pick up the pace to 70 if you guys wanna see it happen!

I think TC needs to go! He's lost control of the team. That coach down in Philthy will be free very soon. Or maybe the other one from that other scrub team in NY! They are winners!

Morehead State
11-17-2012, 03:12 PM
Eli Manning won those SuperBowls with two completely different sets of receivers, that is very impressive.

Eli Manning was purely brilliant in SuperBowl XLVI. He bailed the defense out again and again. He slowed the game down when our defense was gasping for breath and about to get blown out.

Eli Manning knew our defense couldn’t stop Tom Brady that day so he stopped him by keeping him on the sidelines.
Phil won with NO receivers.

And on the biggest game of his life...Phil threw the QB equivalent of a prefect game. Of course he wasn't clutch.

zimonami
11-17-2012, 04:22 PM
Phil won with NO receivers.

And on the biggest game of his life...Phil threw the QB equivalent of a prefect game. Of course he wasn't clutch.
Well, there were warm bodies playing in those positions...lol... but, I know what you mean, and it's too true. In '86 Bavaro was our No. 1 receiver, and then our two tops WR's caught 38, 39 passes for the entire season... that's just 2+ Rec/game. Hardly above average. He never had a WR like a Cruz, Nicks, Smith who caught over 70 passes in a season. He spread the ball to 8 receivers in completing his 22 passes in SBXX!.
Someone on here, I believe either Harooni or Morehead, said that Phil was a better passer than Eli. I believe that's very true. Watch Phil's passes in the SB. All tight, hard spirals. Rarely a wounded duck like Eli throws too often. No One was better than Phil in the wind.
Phil had a good running game and a great defense to help him win games. Other than the 4th and 17 against Minny, I can't remember many games where Phil was 'Clutch", making that last needed drive in the 4th to win a game. It just never seemed like he had to, unlike Eli who has pulled games out for us on many occasions.
It took Phil many years to learn how to read defenses. He had raw talent and great toughness. Eli came into the league with the ability to read a defense, nurtured over his lifetime by his dad, but his arm isn't as good as Phil's. They were different, and hard to compare. I believe Phil would have won SBXXV if he were healthy. And, I also believe if Phil were healthy, we would have had a bigger lead and Norwood wouldn't have been kicking a FG at the end, because they would have needed TD's, not a FG to win. Going 10-0 in his starts that year certainly shouldn't be forgotten.
Two great Giant QB's, in two different era's. Don't compare them... simply appreciate them both.

Rusty192
11-17-2012, 04:40 PM
Don't compare them... simply appreciate them both.If people could do that this thread would be 2 pages.

Also I agree wholeheartedly.

ShakeandBake
11-17-2012, 04:47 PM
I think TC needs to go! He's lost control of the team. That coach down in Philthy will be free very soon. Or maybe the other one from that other scrub team in NY! They are winners!

We are already budgeting gas here in NY because of Sandy, if Reid comes to town we will have to start budgeting the food supply as well, there simply is not enough food right now to feed both Reid and Rex Ryan.

gumby74
11-17-2012, 04:52 PM
IMO,

Eli has more raw passing talent. He is able to make the ridiculous throw more so than Phil. Phil was more accurate. If a WR is open, Phil would hit him between the numbers. Phil also was more consistent. I picture Phil and see him standing tall in the pocket. Eli chucks and ducks.

That being said, I don't think Phil was the type of QB that can "carry" a team the way Eli did in 2011. Phil was steady and solid. Eli is wild but can pull a rabbit out of a hat. 2 different animals.

Roosevelt
11-17-2012, 05:06 PM
That play against Minnesota is the only one you are going to be able to go to. Eli Manning is way more clutch than Phil Simms ever was. It is not even a contest.

Utter nonsense.

How's this one - on the biggest stage of them all, the man put on a clinic. If that wasn't an all-time clutch performance I don't know what is.

Let me remind you that #11 is retired along with just ten other player's jerseys. Phil Simms is an all-time great Giant.

And the few of you on here taking shots at him look down right shallow in your retaliation of of those petty words about Eli. Think about it, Phil simply stated Eli wasn't one of the greatest QB's of all time. That's what the man said, and now a few of you guys have turned that into some sort of insult and now are all offended. This is just ridiculous.

And one last thought on this 'clutch' issue. Ever consider the fact that our team finds itself in a position of having to win it in the end so often is not necessarily a positive thing?

Roosevelt
11-17-2012, 05:08 PM
Well, there were warm bodies playing in those positions...lol... but, I know what you mean, and it's too true. In '86 Bavaro was our No. 1 receiver, and then our two tops WR's caught 38, 39 passes for the entire season... that's just 2+ Rec/game. Hardly above average. He never had a WR like a Cruz, Nicks, Smith who caught over 70 passes in a season. He spread the ball to 8 receivers in completing his 22 passes in SBXX!.
Someone on here, I believe either Harooni or Morehead, said that Phil was a better passer than Eli. I believe that's very true. Watch Phil's passes in the SB. All tight, hard spirals. Rarely a wounded duck like Eli throws too often. No One was better than Phil in the wind.
Phil had a good running game and a great defense to help him win games. Other than the 4th and 17 against Minny, I can't remember many games where Phil was 'Clutch", making that last needed drive in the 4th to win a game. It just never seemed like he had to, unlike Eli who has pulled games out for us on many occasions.
It took Phil many years to learn how to read defenses. He had raw talent and great toughness. Eli came into the league with the ability to read a defense, nurtured over his lifetime by his dad, but his arm isn't as good as Phil's. They were different, and hard to compare. I believe Phil would have won SBXXV if he were healthy. And, I also believe if Phil were healthy, we would have had a bigger lead and Norwood wouldn't have been kicking a FG at the end, because they would have needed TD's, not a FG to win. Going 10-0 in his starts that year certainly shouldn't be forgotten.
Two great Giant QB's, in two different era's. Don't compare them... simply appreciate them both.

Great post Zim.

joemorrisforprez
11-17-2012, 05:25 PM
I was a big Simms fan back in the day.

Some of the older posters here probably remember that for a long, long time, alot of fans couldn't stand Simms. Prior to 1986, it was a very vocal contingent, but even after his SB win, there were still hard critics of Simms.

I've been a pretty big fan of Eli as well, and like Simms, there have been alot of fans that have been extremely critical of him during various times in his career.....since the Giants are entering their annual November swoon, the critics have re-emerged.

Personally, I think Eli is "elite", for the reasons Dan Fouts said......he's proven, on the biggest stage, that he can win.

2 SB wins v. Patriots teams lead by Brady and Belichick....... if that's not the sign of an elite QB, than this is really just semantics as far as I'm concerned.

Phil Simms was a more accurate QB...when he had protection, he was lethal. However, I think Eli recognizes things at the line of scrimmage better than Simms. Eli moves around the pocket better. Simms was like a statue back there.....when the protection was shaky, it was painful to watch.

Simms didn't have the wide receivers that Eli has.......but Simms always had a running game, and always had a brutal defense to keep him in virtually every game. And if Eli had Mark Bavaro, forget it.

One of the reasons why Eli has had to pull out so many comebacks is because his defense can't hold a lead, and his running game can't kill the clock.

If I had to pick one QB over the other, I'd pick Eli, but it wouldn't be a landslide. And yeah, I think Eli is elite.

Morehead State
11-17-2012, 06:27 PM
Well, there were warm bodies playing in those positions...lol... but, I know what you mean, and it's too true. In '86 Bavaro was our No. 1 receiver, and then our two tops WR's caught 38, 39 passes for the entire season... that's just 2+ Rec/game. Hardly above average. He never had a WR like a Cruz, Nicks, Smith who caught over 70 passes in a season. He spread the ball to 8 receivers in completing his 22 passes in SBXX!.
Someone on here, I believe either Harooni or Morehead, said that Phil was a better passer than Eli. I believe that's very true. Watch Phil's passes in the SB. All tight, hard spirals. Rarely a wounded duck like Eli throws too often. No One was better than Phil in the wind.
Phil had a good running game and a great defense to help him win games. Other than the 4th and 17 against Minny, I can't remember many games where Phil was 'Clutch", making that last needed drive in the 4th to win a game. It just never seemed like he had to, unlike Eli who has pulled games out for us on many occasions.
It took Phil many years to learn how to read defenses. He had raw talent and great toughness. Eli came into the league with the ability to read a defense, nurtured over his lifetime by his dad, but his arm isn't as good as Phil's. They were different, and hard to compare. I believe Phil would have won SBXXV if he were healthy. And, I also believe if Phil were healthy, we would have had a bigger lead and Norwood wouldn't have been kicking a FG at the end, because they would have needed TD's, not a FG to win. Going 10-0 in his starts that year certainly shouldn't be forgotten.
Two great Giant QB's, in two different era's. Don't compare them... simply appreciate them both.

I agree not to compare them......except to say that Phil was better.

Joe Morrison
11-17-2012, 06:34 PM
Don't know if anyone heard John Madden on Sirius NFL yesterday but he said Eli has won 2 superbowls and to many big games, Eli is an Elite Quarterback.

zimonami
11-17-2012, 06:47 PM
I agree not to compare them......except to say that Phil was better.
This was my laugh of the day.

I won't choose one over the other. They have both been great Giant QB's.
But, let me throw these interesting points out, just to give you younger peeps some appreciation for Phil.
In his career, the most times Eli has ever been sacked in a season was 30.
Phil had 10 seasons where his lowest # of sacks was 34, and in 4 of those seasons he was sacked over 50 times.
The man was tough.

sharick88
11-17-2012, 07:45 PM
Only here can a thread go from whether or not Eli is elite into a Eli vs Simms debate. LOL

BurnerNYG
11-17-2012, 07:49 PM
This was my laugh of the day.

I won't choose one over the other. They have both been great Giant QB's.
But, let me throw these interesting points out, just to give you younger peeps some appreciation for Phil.
In his career, the most times Eli has ever been sacked in a season was 30.
Phil had 10 seasons where his lowest # of sacks was 34, and in 4 of those seasons he was sacked over 50 times.
The man was tough.Tough as nails and he also had personality. Nobody got in Parcells face but Simms did. I'm not saying it's good for players to flare up at the coach but sometimes I do appreciate seeing emotions.

zimonami
11-17-2012, 08:14 PM
Tough as nails and he also had personality. Nobody got in Parcells face but Simms did. I'm not saying it's good for players to flare up at the coach but sometimes I do appreciate seeing emotions.
Phil wasn't afraid to argue with Parcell's... and he wasn't afraid to take on Ronnie Lott.
The Olineman always said no one worked harder than Phil in the weight room.
He paid his NFL dues in 14 seasons.
I believe Eli's SB performances and record of comebacks put him among today's elite, but I respect Phil having a different opinion.
And, Eli is inconsistently elite... lol... like over the last 4 games.

joemorrisforprez
11-17-2012, 08:17 PM
Don't know if anyone heard John Madden on Sirius NFL yesterday but he said Eli has won 2 superbowls and to many big games, Eli is an Elite Quarterback.

I agree.....if Eli's not elite, then maybe we shouldn't use that term for anything, because I have no ****ing clue what it means.

RoanokeFan
11-17-2012, 09:19 PM
I agree not to compare them......except to say that Phil was better.

LMAO

zimonami
11-17-2012, 11:13 PM
I agree.....if Eli's not elite, then maybe we shouldn't use that term for anything, because I have no ****ing clue what it means.
I never even heard it in reference to QB's until Eli answered the question last year. Now it's a game to see who will be tabbed the next 'elite' NFL QB, and what did he do to merit the label... while all QB's of the past are evaluated, post career, as to their 'eliteness', or not.
Everyone mocked Eli for thinking he was elite. Then, after he won his 2nd SB, everyone was tripping all over themselves getting on the "Eli is Elite" bandwagon.
Now, after his last 4 games, some of the rats are abandoning ship...lol. Humans... the only thing consistent about us is our inconsistency

YATittle1962
11-17-2012, 11:44 PM
I never even heard it in reference to QB's until Eli answered the question last year. Now it's a game to see who will be tabbed the next 'elite' NFL QB, and what did he do to merit the label... while all QB's of the past are evaluated, post career, as to their 'eliteness', or not.
Everyone mocked Eli for thinking he was elite. Then, after he won his 2nd SB, everyone was tripping all over themselves getting on the "Eli is Elite" bandwagon.
Now, after his last 4 games, some of the rats are abandoning ship...lol. Humans... the only thing consistent about us is our inconsistency

post of the year

Die-Hard
11-18-2012, 07:53 AM
I agree.....if Eli's not elite, then maybe we shouldn't use that term for anything, because I have no ****ing clue what it means.

Its just a stupid tag created by the media and fans. Honestly, thats all it is. Completely and utterly meaningless, but it still sends people into towering rages and leaves them foaming at the mouth while lying in the fetal position.

Am I being a little over-dramatic? Yep, but we're approaching page 35 of a thread based on a stupid, meaningless word. A little extra drama is warranted

BillTheGreek
11-18-2012, 07:58 AM
It's Like comparing Oranges to Apples, Phil was Good, but Eli is Better !

stormblue
11-18-2012, 08:15 AM
one thing eli is better at is reading the D and setting up his protection.

if he could just get it done before the playclock expires.
i'm starting to wonder if he isn't causing half of the confusion himself.

stormblue
11-18-2012, 08:39 AM
Who was "clutch"? Eli or Simms? No contest! Eli wins hands down. Two come from behind SB wins because our rotten defense can't hold a lead!

rotten defense ? the defense showing up in the playoffs is what did it.
they gave up only 14 points to a previously undefeated team that led the league in scoring.
then along came a helmet "clutch" and then a cornerback stumbled , leaving Plax wide open.
Eli was a paltry 19 of 34 for 255 yds 2td's and 1 pic. call those MVP stats if you want.....
compare that to Simms SB MVP stats.
and don't get me wrong i'll accept that SB42 win
and proudly take that 'ring' to the pawnshop anyday.....
but we all know it was stolen jewelry.

Morehead State
11-18-2012, 09:20 AM
rotten defense ? the defense showing up in the playoffs is what did it.
they gave up only 14 points to a previously undefeated team that led the league in scoring.
then along came a helmet "clutch" and then a cornerback stumbled , leaving Plax wide open.
Eli was a paltry 19 of 34 for 255 yds 2td's and 1 pic. call those MVP stats if you want.....
compare that to Simms SB MVP stats.
and don't get me wrong i'll accept that SB42 win
and proudly take that 'ring' to the pawnshop anyday.....
but we all know it was stolen jewelry.

Nonsense.
We were the better team on that field in SB 42.
And the "stumbling CB" came from a great move by Plax that they knew they were vulnerable to from film study and waited until the right time to use it.

Ruttiger711
11-18-2012, 09:20 AM
rotten defense ? the defense showing up in the playoffs is what did it.they gave up only 14 points to a previously undefeated team that led the league in scoring.then along came a helmet "clutch" and then a cornerback stumbled , leaving Plax wide open.Eli was a paltry 19 of 34 for 255 yds 2td's and 1 pic. call those MVP stats if you want.....compare that to Simms SB MVP stats.and don't get me wrong i'll accept that SB42 win and proudly take that 'ring' to the pawnshop anyday.....but we all know it was stolen jewelry.Stolen jewelry for Super Bowl 42 now...... Hey want don't we just say the pats "gave it to us" now?What a luxury you have as a fan to have a throw away Lombardi trophy - ridiculous.

Morehead State
11-18-2012, 09:26 AM
Stolen jewelry for Super Bowl 42 now...... Hey want don't we just say the pats "gave it to us" now?What a luxury you have as a fan to have a throw away Lombardi trophy - ridiculous.
We had more rushing yards, more passing yards, more time of possession, and oh yeah.....more points. We beat all the best teams in football that yearin our playoff run.
We were the deserving champs!

Ruttiger711
11-18-2012, 10:01 AM
We had more rushing yards, more passing yards, more time of possession, and oh yeah.....more points. We beat all the best teams in football that yearin our playoff run.
We were the deserving champs!

Cheers. Although mine is a coffee mug at this hour.

bigjeep
11-18-2012, 10:06 AM
rotten defense ? the defense showing up in the playoffs is what did it.
they gave up only 14 points to a previously undefeated team that led the league in scoring.
then along came a helmet "clutch" and then a cornerback stumbled , leaving Plax wide open.
Eli was a paltry 19 of 34 for 255 yds 2td's and 1 pic. call those MVP stats if you want.....
compare that to Simms SB MVP stats.
and don't get me wrong i'll accept that SB42 win
and proudly take that 'ring' to the pawnshop anyday.....
but we all know it was stolen jewelry.

If Simms was our QB In SB's 2008 and 2012, we would have lost both games!

Delicreep
11-18-2012, 10:39 AM
I agree not to compare them......except to say that Phil was better.

Honestly...I was trolling around this thread looking for some humor, but this actually caught my attention.

What struck me was two things:

1) most of us acknowledge that it is impossible to compare two players from two different eras, especially considering the differences in the game itself.

2) rarely does anyone ever make the best "apple to apple" comparison: How did opponents view them?

During his SB runs, Simms was not seen as a elite QB at the time (still not by most), but he was damn sure not seen as the player you were going to try to exploit. He was going to play a solid game, and he wasn't going to make any truly boneheaded plays.

Conservative, tough, accurate, and generally unflappable. And I don't remember any talk of HoF during his career.

Eli's first run could best be described as one in which every team saw him as exploitable. The Bucs flat out said it. The cowboys plan was to pressure Eli, The Pack (and this board) knew he couldn't play well in the cold.

Pressure him, and he will fold eventually.

Last years run? He achieved a status that Simms never did...if you were an opponent, Eli was the last guy on the field you wanted to have that ball-period.

Need a score late in the 4th? Call Eli.
Need an amazing series? Call Eli.
Game on the line? Call Eli.

We get the ball back with 2 minutes in 42, we all were full of hope and doubt.
We get the ball back with 2 minutes to go in 46, we all start celebrating. Chis Collinsworth literally said, "here we go again" after the Pats scored, cause it just seemed like you were not going to stop the guy. Brady actually said he wanted the ball last, because he had seen what Eli could do.

Simms was far more reliable, played in a tougher time, but there was a period of time when Eli achieved a status that Simms never did...one of the most feared players in the league.

And as for his comment? Love the guy and respect his opinion. Really like that he defined it well. Watching Eli now, hard not to agree with him. Elite does not equal erratic.

stormblue
11-18-2012, 10:54 AM
If Simms was our QB In SB's 2008 and 2012, we would have lost both games!

based on what ?
how each man actually played in the game ?
Simms had one of the top performances of all-time.
Eli had a "helmet clutch" and less than pedestrian stats.

had Simms been there in either 2008 or 2012 it would not have
come down to "E-LUCKY"

its "fire and ice" vs "deer in the headlites confusion"

and i bet you that this year Parcell's woulda benched his "goober-pyle" asterisk by now.

GameTime
11-18-2012, 11:12 AM
based on what ?
how each man actually played in the game ?
Simms had one of the top performances of all-time.
Eli had a "helmet clutch" and less than pedestrian stats.

had Simms been there in either 2008 or 2012 it would not have
come down to "E-LUCKY"

its "fire and ice" vs "deer in the headlites confusion"


and i bet you that this year Parcell's woulda benched his "goober-pyle" asterisk by now.

so why are you such a **** when it comes to Eli??
just curious

stormblue
11-18-2012, 11:32 AM
so why are you such a **** when it comes to Eli??
just curious

i'm not really .....other than Rodgers i can't think of anyone in the game RIGHT NOW , that i'd rather have
on this team.
but i like to keep it real....is Eli better than Simms ? hell , i dunno i'd take Simms , others would say Eli ...the debate rages on...

but this 'elite" crap is nonsense. neither one of 'em are/were consistent enough for that.

but to say the Giants would have flat out lost both SB games with Simms is quite a stretch.
Phil fared very well in big game situations..
had Phil not been injured we would have crushed Buffalo .
now , with Eli , it's like those Hostetler games...take away a helmet catch...and a Manningham miracle..

i like 'em both ; a little truth in the perspective is all i ask.

GameTime
11-18-2012, 04:06 PM
i'm not really .....other than Rodgers i can't think of anyone in the game RIGHT NOW , that i'd rather have
on this team.
but i like to keep it real....is Eli better than Simms ? hell , i dunno i'd take Simms , others would say Eli ...the debate rages on...

but this 'elite" crap is nonsense. neither one of 'em are/were consistent enough for that.

but to say the Giants would have flat out lost both SB games with Simms is quite a stretch.
Phil fared very well in big game situations..
had Phil not been injured we would have crushed Buffalo .
now , with Eli , it's like those Hostetler games...take away a helmet catch...and a Manningham miracle..

i like 'em both ; a little truth in the perspective is all i ask.

why was Manningham's catch a miracle?? If it was Brady to Moss everyone would say how awesome of pass and catch it was.
The helmet catch was a lucky outcome but Eli escaping the pressure was not lucky. Him seeing Tyree down field and throwing it right to him was not lucky.
You cant take away plays.....if are then take away Simms' plays and then what?? I love Phil Simms. I dont compare the two.

Sarcasman
11-18-2012, 04:45 PM
i'm not really .....other than Rodgers i can't think of anyone in the game RIGHT NOW , that i'd rather have
on this team.
but i like to keep it real....is Eli better than Simms ? hell , i dunno i'd take Simms , others would say Eli ...the debate rages on...

but this 'elite" crap is nonsense. neither one of 'em are/were consistent enough for that.

but to say the Giants would have flat out lost both SB games with Simms is quite a stretch.
Phil fared very well in big game situations..
had Phil not been injured we would have crushed Buffalo .
now , with Eli , it's like those Hostetler games...take away a helmet catch...and a Manningham miracle..

i like 'em both ; a little truth in the perspective is all i ask.


Just when I thought there were no more hilarious posters. This stuff is posting gold!

Kez Simpson
11-18-2012, 04:48 PM
i'm not really .....other than Rodgers i can't think of anyone in the game RIGHT NOW , that i'd rather have
on this team.
but i like to keep it real....is Eli better than Simms ? hell , i dunno i'd take Simms , others would say Eli ...the debate rages on...

but this 'elite" crap is nonsense. neither one of 'em are/were consistent enough for that.

but to say the Giants would have flat out lost both SB games with Simms is quite a stretch.
Phil fared very well in big game situations..
had Phil not been injured we would have crushed Buffalo .
now , with Eli , it's like those Hostetler games...take away a helmet catch...and a Manningham miracle..

i like 'em both ; a little truth in the perspective is all i ask.


Take away Simms dominant defense...a little truth in perspective, no?


Come on with this nonesene "what if's"

Sarcasman
11-18-2012, 04:57 PM
Take away Simms dominant defense...a little truth in perspective, no?


Come on with this nonesene "what if's"


C'mon man, enough with the cold water; don't ruin it.

Now say it with me: it was just a bunch of lucky plays and the Giants stole SB42.

Doesn't that feel better?

Kez Simpson
11-18-2012, 04:59 PM
C'mon man, enough with the cold water; don't ruin it.

Now say it with me: it was just a bunch of lucky plays and the Giants stole SB42.

Doesn't that feel better?

That's what my buddy, a Patriots fan, says to this day. :)

I guess if you say something enough it will become true, like that "Secret" book/movie.

Sarcasman
11-18-2012, 05:02 PM
That's what my buddy, a Patriots fan, says to this day. :)


How's that working out for him? He feel much better does he?

I didn't think so.

Roosevelt
11-18-2012, 05:18 PM
Honestly...I was trolling around this thread looking for some humor, but this actually caught my attention.

What struck me was two things:

1) most of us acknowledge that it is impossible to compare two players from two different eras, especially considering the differences in the game itself.

2) rarely does anyone ever make the best "apple to apple" comparison: How did opponents view them?

During his SB runs, Simms was not seen as a elite QB at the time (still not by most), but he was damn sure not seen as the player you were going to try to exploit. He was going to play a solid game, and he wasn't going to make any truly boneheaded plays.

Conservative, tough, accurate, and generally unflappable. And I don't remember any talk of HoF during his career.

Eli's first run could best be described as one in which every team saw him as exploitable. The Bucs flat out said it. The cowboys plan was to pressure Eli, The Pack (and this board) knew he couldn't play well in the cold.

Pressure him, and he will fold eventually.

Last years run? He achieved a status that Simms never did...if you were an opponent, Eli was the last guy on the field you wanted to have that ball-period.

Need a score late in the 4th? Call Eli.
Need an amazing series? Call Eli.
Game on the line? Call Eli.

We get the ball back with 2 minutes in 42, we all were full of hope and doubt.
We get the ball back with 2 minutes to go in 46, we all start celebrating. Chis Collinsworth literally said, "here we go again" after the Pats scored, cause it just seemed like you were not going to stop the guy. Brady actually said he wanted the ball last, because he had seen what Eli could do.

Simms was far more reliable, played in a tougher time, but there was a period of time when Eli achieved a status that Simms never did...one of the most feared players in the league.

And as for his comment? Love the guy and respect his opinion. Really like that he defined it well. Watching Eli now, hard not to agree with him. Elite does not equal erratic.

Another great post.

Roosevelt
11-18-2012, 05:23 PM
so why are you such a **** when it comes to Eli??
just curious

Have you ever questioned bj why he's such a ***** to Phil? The guy is probably in his 60's or 70's but acts like a friggin school boy.

stormblue
11-18-2012, 06:27 PM
Nonsense.
We were the better team on that field in SB 42.
And the "stumbling CB" came from a great move by Plax that they knew they were vulnerable to from film study and waited until the right time to use it.

i totally agree on the better team aspect ....read what i said ....i was defending the stellar effort by our defense
(which is what really won the game)
a defense that was being unjustly maligned by the poster... and also pointing out that offensively we were pretty much lackluster.

comparing Eli's MVP performance to Phil's is just....
there isn't even a comparison to be made.

LT_Hits
11-18-2012, 06:36 PM
Honestly, he is right. He has been a mess for the last 4 games. Out of the elite QB's in the NFL, how many of those guys have had 4 game slumps like this? I like Elli as our QB, but I have to agree with Simms on this one.

Me Too. Eli is a really good QB, but great is held up for a small select few. And in this league there are only four. Rodgers, Brady, Breeze and P Manning. Then there is Eli in his own class and then all of the other QBs in this league.

stormblue
11-18-2012, 06:39 PM
Stolen jewelry for Super Bowl 42 now...... Hey want don't we just say the pats "gave it to us" now?What a luxury you have as a fan to have a throw away Lombardi trophy - ridiculous.

don't put words in my mouth.
you obviously do not understand my analogy.
they didn't give us nothing....we took it.
the pawn shop analogy meant that it is still worth just as much , not really take it to the pawn shop.

stormblue
11-18-2012, 06:44 PM
Just when I thought there were no more hilarious posters. This stuff is posting gold!

real gold ..save it up for a rainy day.

stormblue
11-18-2012, 06:57 PM
why was Manningham's catch a miracle?? If it was Brady to Moss everyone would say how awesome of pass and catch it was.
The helmet catch was a lucky outcome but Eli escaping the pressure was not lucky. Him seeing Tyree down field and throwing it right to him was not lucky.
You cant take away plays.....if are then take away Simms' plays and then what?? I love Phil Simms. I dont compare the two.

take away any 2 entire scoring drives....and Phil still wins.
take away one first down.....and Eli loses.

anyways all you smug-asterisks jumpin' on board here to pummel me need to keep in mind
that i jumped in here to defend our defense....that really won the game.
stop making me compare Eli and Phil....it wasn't my intent.

stormblue
11-18-2012, 07:02 PM
We had more rushing yards, more passing yards, more time of possession, and oh yeah.....more points. We beat all the best teams in football that yearin our playoff run.
We were the deserving champs!

and what would be the over-all concept here....Eli tore up NE with 17 monster points ?
or might it be that our defense shut down a record breaking offensive juggernaut and held them to just 14 points.
a team effort indeed , but who were the real heroes ?

you folks decide which was the greater accomplishment.

stormblue
11-18-2012, 07:07 PM
Take away Simms dominant defense...a little truth in perspective, no?


Come on with this nonesene "what if's"

Elway got his 20 points....Phil doubled him up.

stormblue
11-18-2012, 07:13 PM
C'mon man, enough with the cold water; don't ruin it.

Now say it with me: it was just a bunch of lucky plays and the Giants stole SB42.

Doesn't that feel better?

nope , you keep leaving out the outstanding defense that really won the game.

GameTime
11-18-2012, 07:17 PM
take away any 2 entire scoring drives....and Phil still wins.
take away one first down.....and Eli loses.

anyways all you smug-asterisks jumpin' on board here to pummel me need to keep in mind
that i jumped in here to defend our defense....that really won the game.
stop making me compare Eli and Phil....it wasn't my intent.

I am not smug or am I making you compare. I plainly said I dont compare them.
Simms and the Giants had a historical game. So did Eli and the Giants.....

Sarcasman
11-18-2012, 07:25 PM
nope , you keep leaving out the outstanding defense that really won the game.


Don't put words in my mouth, I've never knocked the defense from SB42 nor is a comment such as that to be found anywhere in my post.

Imgrate
11-18-2012, 07:28 PM
Eli has played like a top 5 qb one season in his entire career.

stormblue
11-18-2012, 07:32 PM
I am not smug or am I making you compare. I plainly said I dont compare them.
Simms and the Giants had a historical game. So did Eli and the Giants.....

touche ...point taken (literally) ; and well received.

Morehead State
11-18-2012, 07:39 PM
Eli has played like a top 5 qb one season in his entire career.
I hate to say it but this is really the crux of the issue.
Eli has had one great season out of 9. If he was having another great season this year, you could make an argument that he has developed and has become a great QB. But he's been horrible in the last 4 games. He has rookie numbers with 12 TD's and 11 Int's..
Its actually very discouraging.

Ruttiger711
11-18-2012, 07:46 PM
and what would be the over-all concept here....Eli tore up NE with 17 monster points ?or might it be that our defense shut down a record breaking offensive juggernaut and held them to just 14 points.a team effort indeed , but who were the real heroes ?you folks decide which was the greater accomplishment.The defense was outstanding that game and you could say they "won sb42" however they did the exact opposite and gave up the lead with under 2 minutes to go. That's not subjective, it's not a matter of perception, luck or anything but what it actually was. They gave up the game winning TD and did anything but actually win the game. The contribution was enormous - they didn't win the game.

It's not a dis on the D - but it's just as foolish as saying it was the offense who LOST the regular season game against the Pats.

stormblue
11-18-2012, 07:49 PM
Don't put words in my mouth, I've never knocked the defense from SB42 nor is a comment such as that to be found anywhere in my post.

you are correct...but someone's else's post said that it was the defenses poor play
that resulted in Eli's having to perform an MVP comeback.
i defended the defense and pointed out the over-all ineptitude of the offense.
which is the truth.
then the Eli homers started jumping in ....

you climbed on board way later after things started getting twisted.
if you really don't think that SB wasn't classic "David vs Goliath"
and the defense was the slingshot.....then keep arguing with me.
but that's the gist of it.

if you actually read the whole thread you will see that my original posts
say that i like both players and that i thought Simms should STFU.
and i haven't been comparing Simms vs Eli careers....
only the SB performances were being discussed....which as i pointed
out are one-sided in Phil's favor.

more gold for you. really.

Rudyy
11-18-2012, 07:54 PM
Both QB's won us Super Bowls.
Whether Eli is elite or not, it doesn't matter, he has 2 Super Bowls anyway.

Now let's all hug and make up.

stormblue
11-18-2012, 08:01 PM
The defense was outstanding that game and you could say they "won sb42" however they did the exact opposite and gave up the lead with under 2 minutes to go. That's not subjective, it's not a matter of perception, luck or anything but what it actually was. They gave up the game winning TD and did anything but actually win the game. The contribution was enormous - they didn't win the game.

It's not a dis on the D - but it's just as foolish as saying it was the offense who LOST the regular season game against the Pats.

as i recall ....Brady got the ball back , did he not ?
oh , i guess that game winning defensive stand doesn't count.
must have been Eli and Plax out there in the dime defense.

oh that's right Brady had the last at-bat in SB46 too.
nice defense by Eli and Nicks.

Ruttiger711
11-18-2012, 08:05 PM
as i recall ....Brady got the ball back , did he not ?oh , i guess that game winning defensive stand doesn't count.Lets not pretend that it was an actual drive vs a few Hail Mary's... Or is it the last unit on the field that wins the game?

stormblue
11-18-2012, 08:15 PM
Lets not pretend that it was an actual drive vs a few Hail Mary's... Or is it the last unit on the field that wins the game?

whatever , Eli was elite and UNSTOPPABLE. a freakin' maniacal pigskin threat to world peace !!

but if you want to see a real deal QB MVP SB performance....i suggest you check out roman numeral XXI.
stardust.

lgwgiantlov
11-18-2012, 08:15 PM
Bet on it!

Ruttiger711
11-18-2012, 08:24 PM
whatever , Eli was elite and UNSTOPPABLE. a freakin' threat to world peace !!but if you want to see a real deal QB MVP SB performance....i suggest you check out roman numeral XXI.stardust.Never even said such things about Eli. Was more of a comment of yours about the offense being inept and lucky. An offense has to actually be on the field to be able to put up points. The Giants offense had a Super Bowl record opening time of possesion - that may have had just a LITTLE to do with the Pats low points as well. Personally my opinion of Simms SB performance is that it's practically unmatchable - so who exactly are you arguing with?

Parademon
11-18-2012, 08:30 PM
Joe Namath played for the NY Jets! That he was able to help them win their only SB in their history is reason enough for me to vote him into the HOF!

I grew up watching Simms play QB for us & he was a great QB for us when healthy. It's a shame he got hurt late in 90' & couldn't QB in the SB vs Buffalo. We would have won that game going away if he had. Hoss did an admirable job in that game, but I feel that we would have aired it out a bit more & put up more than just 20 points. I know the game plan was just like it was in SB 42 & Brady, keep Machine gun Kelley & that explosive Bills O on the sidelines.

A 2nd ring as the starter would have given Simms a great shot at the HOF. IMO, it's his right to state his opinion on Eli & no one here should be bashing him for it. Especially any of you that were too young to have actually seen him play.

Eli cannot make plays on his own when a play is busted. He lacks the ability to just take off an run for the 1st down like Romo, Brees & Rogers can do.

Sometimes the field is wide open in front of him & he'll still be looking for an open reciever! Just take off an run! I think that was one of the reasons Simms bashed him. Those other QBs can beat you with both their arms & legs, Eli can only beat teams with his arm.

Simms didn't have alot of 4th qt comeback wins cuz the Giants D back then didn't blow leads like this current D seems to do these past few yrs. Back then, if the G-men had a 21-10 lead going into the 4th, you knew the game was over, not so with this D.

Really could give a crap bout this "elite" status...much prefer the "clutch" title myself. I just want Eli to become "clutch" when in the RZ & get his team some early scores before the half & stop putting so much pressure on the D to keep the game low scoring. Asides from the Panthers, 9ers Cowboys rematch game, we hardly ever go into the half leading comfortably. And we almost blew the Boys game.

Look at NE vs Indy today, they never take their pedal of the gas! Huge lead on the Colts & they just keep attacking, attacking on O, we have like a 10 pt lead & get all conservative & kick Fgs & before you know it, a blowout turns into a last second struggle for a win.

The 9ers/2nd Boys games come to mind, could have been huge blowouts but our OC gets conservative in the RZ & we start settling for 3s when a few 7s would turn the game into a route. 9ers game should not even have been as close as the final score indictates. Same for the Boys game, Eli & the O couldn't come thru with all the numerous turnovers & short field that the D provided them in both games. So goes Eli, so goes the Giants.

Eli needs to get going!

GameTime
11-18-2012, 08:36 PM
I love Eli and what he has accomplished with the Giants. But my honest opinion out of the top QBs currently in the NFL Eli comes up with the worst games at times then any of them and thats his whole issue when comparing. I am talking Brady, Brees, Peyton, Rodgers, Ben, Ryan..(no particular order)

stormblue
11-18-2012, 08:44 PM
Never even said such things about Eli. Was more of a comment of yours about the offense being inept and lucky. An offense has to actually be on the field to be able to put up points. The Giants offense had a Super Bowl record opening time of possesion - that may have had just a LITTLE to do with the Pats low points as well. Personally my opinion of Simms SB performance is that it's practically unmatchable - so who exactly are you arguing with?

i'm not arguing with anybody.
that culprit instigator dropped out pages and pages ago.
whilst i am left dodging random sarcasms and innuendo
just defending what i said and why i said it.

it doesn't really sound like you are disagreeing with much at all...
i think i have been defending myself for so many pages that i'm
getting an itchy trigger finger.

sorry.

Ruttiger711
11-18-2012, 08:51 PM
i'm not arguing with anybody.that culprit instigator dropped out pages and pages ago.whilst i am left dodging random sarcasms and innuendojust defending what i said and why i said it.it doesn't really sound like you are disagreeing with much at all...i think i have been defending myself for so many pages that i'm getting an itchy trigger finger.sorry.I wonder if there are Montana/young debates like these on their boards.

Rudyy
11-18-2012, 08:54 PM
I wonder if there are Montana/young debates like these on their boards.Well I'm sure that their fans appreciate BOTH of them and understand that they were two different quarterbacks and aren't belittling one of them to make the other one seem greater.

Rusty192
11-18-2012, 08:59 PM
Well I'm sure that their fans appreciate BOTH of them and understand that they were two different quarterbacks and aren't belittling one of them to make the other one seem greater.Welcome to the GMB baby!

Rusty192
11-18-2012, 09:02 PM
I love Eli and what he has accomplished with the Giants. But my honest opinion out of the top QBs currently in the NFL Eli comes up with the worst games at times then any of them and thats his whole issue when comparing. I am talking Brady, Brees, Peyton, Rodgers, Ben, Ryan..(no particular order)Amazing how our opinions change after Eli has a few rough games.

stormblue
11-18-2012, 09:12 PM
Eli is an excellent QB when he's on.
and the heavens and homers adorn him -
but Eli is not always on , and when he's not
the pundits and haters will scorn him.

"when he was good he was awfully good , but when he was bad he was rotten"
or "good Eli and Bad Eli"

so , after 8 or 9 years , what has changed ?

Rusty192
11-18-2012, 09:14 PM
Eli is an excellent QB when he's on.
and the heavens and homers adorn him.

but Eli is not always on , and when he's not
the pundits and haters will gladly point it out.

"when he was good he was awfully good , but he was bad he was rotten"
or "good Eli and Bad Eli"

what has changed ?Not so much about Eli, but more how he "ranks" among the leagues QB's

GameTime
11-18-2012, 09:18 PM
Amazing how our opinions change after Eli has a few rough games.
nope....not for me. Eli has shown simply great football and horrid football over the course of his career more than any of the QBs I mentioned.

Rusty192
11-18-2012, 09:27 PM
nope....not for me. Eli has shown simply great football and horrid football over the course of his career more than any of the QBs I mentioned.So even after last year you would rank Rodgers, Ryan, and Ben over Eli?

Well I have to say if that's how you felt then I respect that.

GameTime
11-18-2012, 09:31 PM
So even after last year you would rank Rodgers, Ryan, and Ben over Eli?

Well I have to say if that's how you felt then I respect that.
Last year is one season of his career. Like any top QBs you will have periods that you are on the top of your game. Last year he was moreso than any other season. So I look at the big picture.....not game to game. Just because Eli had a great sseason doesnt make him overall a better QB than another QB.....

Rusty192
11-18-2012, 09:42 PM
Last year is one season of his career. Like any top QBs you will have periods that you are on the top of your game. Last year he was moreso than any other season. So I look at the big picture.....not game to game. Just because Eli had a great sseason doesnt make him overall a better QB than another QB.....That's cool. I still think you're crazy lol. but thats cool.

Rudyy
11-18-2012, 09:43 PM
This should be pinned, just because...

gumby74
11-18-2012, 09:44 PM
So even after last year you would rank Rodgers, Ryan, and Ben over Eli?

Well I have to say if that's how you felt then I respect that.

Hey how about that! I get respect! Haha.

Rudyy
11-18-2012, 09:45 PM
That's cool. I still think you're crazy lol. but thats cool.Haha I didn't know you live in Africa..




:D

Roosevelt
11-18-2012, 09:51 PM
take away any 2 entire scoring drives....and Phil still wins.
take away one first down.....and Eli loses.

anyways all you smug-asterisks jumpin' on board here to pummel me need to keep in mind
that i jumped in here to defend our defense....that really won the game.
stop making me compare Eli and Phil....it wasn't my intent.


You do have supporters on here. I don't think you said anything out of line.

Rusty192
11-18-2012, 09:52 PM
Haha I didn't know you live in Africa..




:Dyeah it gets a little crazy around tourist season but other than that its great.

Roosevelt
11-18-2012, 09:54 PM
Eli has played like a top 5 qb one season in his entire career.

Yes. He was elite for one full season so far.....

Rusty192
11-18-2012, 09:58 PM
Hey how about that! I get respect! Haha.Except for you.....

Roosevelt
11-18-2012, 09:58 PM
Both QB's won us Super Bowls.
Whether Eli is elite or not, it doesn't matter, he has 2 Super Bowls anyway.

Now let's all hug and make up.

WTF Rudyy?

The very reason this thread has over 700 posts is because Phil said Eli wasn't elite.

Roosevelt
11-18-2012, 10:01 PM
as i recall ....Brady got the ball back , did he not ?
oh , i guess that game winning defensive stand doesn't count.
must have been Eli and Plax out there in the dime defense.

oh that's right Brady had the last at-bat in SB46 too.
nice defense by Eli and Nicks.


I smell 10 count after this post. Nice job SB.

Rudyy
11-18-2012, 10:02 PM
WTF Rudyy?The very reason this thread has over 700 posts is because Phil said Eli wasn't elite.Me personally I dont even care anymore at this point. He doesnt have to be elite in order to be a winner.

Roosevelt
11-18-2012, 10:04 PM
Lets not pretend that it was an actual drive vs a few Hail Mary's... Or is it the last unit on the field that wins the game?

That's weak. Webster made a great play to break up a pass that would have made things very interesting.

Plus, do you consider Eli's pass to Nicks vs Green Bay last year an actual drive?

Roosevelt
11-18-2012, 10:09 PM
Joe Namath played for the NY Jets! That he was able to help them win their only SB in their history is reason enough for me to vote him into the HOF!

I grew up watching Simms play QB for us & he was a great QB for us when healthy. It's a shame he got hurt late in 90' & couldn't QB in the SB vs Buffalo. We would have won that game going away if he had. Hoss did an admirable job in that game, but I feel that we would have aired it out a bit more & put up more than just 20 points. I know the game plan was just like it was in SB 42 & Brady, keep Machine gun Kelley & that explosive Bills O on the sidelines.

A 2nd ring as the starter would have given Simms a great shot at the HOF. IMO, it's his right to state his opinion on Eli & no one here should be bashing him for it. Especially any of you that were too young to have actually seen him play.

Eli cannot make plays on his own when a play is busted. He lacks the ability to just take off an run for the 1st down like Romo, Brees & Rogers can do.

Sometimes the field is wide open in front of him & he'll still be looking for an open reciever! Just take off an run! I think that was one of the reasons Simms bashed him. Those other QBs can beat you with both their arms & legs, Eli can only beat teams with his arm.

Simms didn't have alot of 4th qt comeback wins cuz the Giants D back then didn't blow leads like this current D seems to do these past few yrs. Back then, if the G-men had a 21-10 lead going into the 4th, you knew the game was over, not so with this D.

Really could give a crap bout this "elite" status...much prefer the "clutch" title myself. I just want Eli to become "clutch" when in the RZ & get his team some early scores before the half & stop putting so much pressure on the D to keep the game low scoring. Asides from the Panthers, 9ers Cowboys rematch game, we hardly ever go into the half leading comfortably. And we almost blew the Boys game.

Look at NE vs Indy today, they never take their pedal of the gas! Huge lead on the Colts & they just keep attacking, attacking on O, we have like a 10 pt lead & get all conservative & kick Fgs & before you know it, a blowout turns into a last second struggle for a win.

The 9ers/2nd Boys games come to mind, could have been huge blowouts but our OC gets conservative in the RZ & we start settling for 3s when a few 7s would turn the game into a route. 9ers game should not even have been as close as the final score indictates. Same for the Boys game, Eli & the O couldn't come thru with all the numerous turnovers & short field that the D provided them in both games. So goes Eli, so goes the Giants.

Eli needs to get going!

Well said my man.

You're point about 'clutch' being able to score in the red zone is spot on.

gumby74
11-18-2012, 10:11 PM
Hey how about that! I get respect! Haha.


Except for you.....

As they said ages ago in grade school, no take backs!

Roosevelt
11-18-2012, 10:11 PM
I love Eli and what he has accomplished with the Giants. But my honest opinion out of the top QBs currently in the NFL Eli comes up with the worst games at times then any of them and thats his whole issue when comparing. I am talking Brady, Brees, Peyton, Rodgers, Ben, Ryan..(no particular order)

And that is not a bad thing. We're lucky to have Eli as our QB. This thread is really just about keeping things in perspective.

GameTime
11-18-2012, 10:13 PM
Joe Namath played for the NY Jets! That he was able to help them win their only SB in their history is reason enough for me to vote him into the HOF!



They didnt know that 5 years after he retired. That reason is non factor......

Rusty192
11-18-2012, 10:14 PM
As they said ages ago in grade school, no take backs!lol whatever you say gumbster

stormblue
11-18-2012, 10:22 PM
You do have supporters on here. I don't think you said anything out of line.

thanx...i try to come in here with facts , stats , reasoning , humor , sarcasm , humility and common sense.
that's probably where i go wrong ..ha-ha.

BuffyBlueII
11-18-2012, 10:30 PM
Utter nonsense.

How's this one - on the biggest stage of them all, the man put on a clinic. If that wasn't an all-time clutch performance I don't know what is.

Let me remind you that #11 is retired along with just ten other player's jerseys. Phil Simms is an all-time great Giant.

And the few of you on here taking shots at him look down right shallow in your retaliation of of those petty words about Eli. Think about it, Phil simply stated Eli wasn't one of the greatest QB's of all time. That's what the man said, and now a few of you guys have turned that into some sort of insult and now are all offended. This is just ridiculous.

And one last thought on this 'clutch' issue. Ever consider the fact that our team finds itself in a position of having to win it in the end so often is not necessarily a positive thing?

I didn’t take any pot shots at Phil Simms. Eli Manning is more clutch than Phil Simms was.

We are often in the position to have to come back in 4th quarter because of our piss poor defense.

On the biggest stage of all, SuperBowl XLVI, Eli Manning did more than put on a clinic. He was purely brilliant in the way he played and dictated that game. He knew he had to keep Tom Brady on the sidelines and that is exactly what he did by leading NY Giants offense to control TOP for almost 38 minutes.

Sarcasman
11-18-2012, 10:38 PM
you are correct...but someone's else's post said that it was the defenses poor play
that resulted in Eli's having to perform an MVP comeback.
i defended the defense and pointed out the over-all ineptitude of the offense.
which is the truth.
then the Eli homers started jumping in ....

you climbed on board way later after things started getting twisted.
if you really don't think that SB wasn't classic "David vs Goliath"
and the defense was the slingshot.....then keep arguing with me.
but that's the gist of it.

if you actually read the whole thread you will see that my original posts
say that i like both players and that i thought Simms should STFU.
and i haven't been comparing Simms vs Eli careers....
only the SB performances were being discussed....which as i pointed
out are one-sided in Phil's favor.

more gold for you. really.



I read the whole thread and it appears that as the thread wore on you may have adopted a purposefully provocative position in order to try to counter balance other posters (the cultists) who were arguing overly biased positions in the other direction.

Since I consider both positions incorrect I don't attach much credibility to either.

But I now understand where you're coming from and why..I didn't see that earlier with the original post to which I had responded. My bad.

stormblue
11-18-2012, 10:49 PM
I read the whole thread and it appears that as the thread wore on you may have adopted a purposefully provocative position in order to try to counter balance other posters who were arguing overly biased positions in the other direction.

Since both are incorrect I don't attach much credibility to either.

yes ... i was getting itchy trigger finger syndrome ...too many muggers all at once.
i have since acknowledged as much and offered my apologies for shooting hastily.

but all my points were valid and factual.....and i won't recant any of that.

Ruttiger711
11-18-2012, 10:51 PM
That's weak. Webster made a great play to break up a pass that would have made things very interesting.

Plus, do you consider Eli's pass to Nicks vs Green Bay last year an actual drive?

They cant all be winners :)

Of course it was a great play - the only thing im countering is that SB42 was won with an inept offense and completely on the D's back.

Sarcasman
11-18-2012, 10:52 PM
but all my points were valid and factual.....and i won't recant any of that.


Well, I'm not going to go back and re-read them all to check that, besides from my perspective a bit of literary hyperbole to make a point never really hurt anyone.

BuffyBlueII
11-18-2012, 11:05 PM
i'm not really .....other than Rodgers i can't think of anyone in the game RIGHT NOW , that i'd rather have
on this team.
but i like to keep it real....is Eli better than Simms ? hell , i dunno i'd take Simms , others would say Eli ...the debate rages on...

but this 'elite" crap is nonsense. neither one of 'em are/were consistent enough for that.

but to say the Giants would have flat out lost both SB games with Simms is quite a stretch.
Phil fared very well in big game situations..
had Phil not been injured we would have crushed Buffalo .
now , with Eli , it's like those Hostetler games...take away a helmet catch...and a Manningham miracle..

i like 'em both ; a little truth in the perspective is all i ask.

I don’t really know if anyone could have crushed Buffalo Bills in 1990 SuperBowl. The SuperBowl against Buffalo Bills would have been played at a much different pace if Phil Simms were the QB instead of Hoss. Now way to really tell but with Phil Simms as QB, we did lose to Buffalo Bills during regular season.

Lets put things in perspective. The “helmet catch” by David Tyree was on 3rd and 5. If he didn’t catch it we had another chance.

The “Manningham Miracle” was a perfectly thrown pass. Plain and simple. The success was possible because of how Eli Manning kept NE Patriots secondary in check that entire game. Patrick Chung was sure Eli Manning was gonna throw to the other side and he slightly cheated. Watch the offensive series throughout the game by us and you can see how Eli Manning kept that secondary on their toes. Heck, if MM catches the pass on the right side two series before the “Manningham Miracle,” we may not have needed such a comeback.

BuffyBlueII
11-18-2012, 11:11 PM
and what would be the over-all concept here....Eli tore up NE with 17 monster points ?
or might it be that our defense shut down a record breaking offensive juggernaut and held them to just 14 points.
a team effort indeed , but who were the real heroes ?

you folks decide which was the greater accomplishment.

Eli Manning scored the game winning drive in 4th quarter against NE Patriots, the number 4 ranked defense in NFL that year.

Eli Manning and NY Giants started the game with the longest opening drive in SuperBowl history at 9:59 and set the tone of the game. NE Patriots didn’t score till 2nd quarter and the long opening drive had a lot to do with that.

We scored a heck of a lot more points on them in the last game of the regular season and the defense couldn’t hold the lead. Do you think it makes sense that Eli Manning knew we had to control TOP and not get in to a shootout because our defense was unable to hold a lead?

BuffyBlueII
11-18-2012, 11:14 PM
as i recall ....Brady got the ball back , did he not ?
oh , i guess that game winning defensive stand doesn't count.
must have been Eli and Plax out there in the dime defense.

oh that's right Brady had the last at-bat in SB46 too.
nice defense by Eli and Nicks.

How much time was left on the clock when NE Patriots got the ball back in those situations? Exactly. Eli Manning made sure to eat up as much clock as possible. He wanted AB to not score because he didn’t want to give the ball back to TB with anytime left.

Roosevelt
11-18-2012, 11:39 PM
They cant all be winners :)

Of course it was a great play - the only thing im countering is that SB42 was won with an inept offense and completely on the D's back.

Our offense only put up 17 points. They had that nice opening drive which disappointingly resulted in 3 points, and then struggled until the 4th, when Boss broke it for 40, and then of course the final drive.

Now, while every homer gets off by telling us how our defense sucks, the truth is if our defense played their typical game THAT day, we would have gotten our asses kicked by NE.

stormblue
11-18-2012, 11:43 PM
well Buffy , 3 straight posts blasting cannons at me out of nowhere.
pleased to meet you...and howdy ma'am ....and ...you go girl !!

:cool:

BuffyBlueII
11-18-2012, 11:54 PM
Our offense only put up 17 points. They had that nice opening drive which disappointingly resulted in 3 points, and then struggled until the 4th, when Boss broke it for 40, and then of course the final drive.

Now, while every homer gets off by telling us how our defense sucks, the truth is if our defense played their typical game THAT day, we would have gotten our asses kicked by NE.

I am not saying that the defense didn’t show up but they did get help from our offense. The opening drive resulting in only 3 points isn’t really the point now is it? The very fact that the opening drive took 9:59 was what was important. We were able to keep NE Patriots from scoring till the 2nd quarter.

What happens is when we are all discussing we go off on tangents or put down another part of the team more than we really want to because we are defending our positions.

Do I think Eli is better than Phil was? Yes I do but I still love Phil and think he is an all time NY Giant great.

Do I think our defense has been soft at times during the past 5-6 seasons? Yes I do but I do acknowledge that they have showed up at crucial times, particularly in postseason. I also acknowledge at times that I may be over critical of them when defending my position in one debate or another.

Phil has the right to make any comments that he wants and I do think that they are being blown way out of proportion. I think Eli Manning is an ELIte QB but some folks do not and they do have a legitimate argument. If they are going to say that Aaron, Drew, Ben, Peyton and Tom are better then that would make Eli number 6 and technically, he wouldn’t be considered ELIte. Personally, I think that the only QB that is better than Eli is Tom.

The thing with Eli Manning is that when he is on his game, he is one of the most feared players in NFL. Phil as awesome as he was, never was like that. Its not a knock on Phil, just my opinion.

Another thing in the comparrasion with Eli and Phil is that NY Giants would win when Phil was off. Come on now folks, those of you like myself that watched Phil back then know that he put up some stinkers. He had some awful games too. When Eli is off, it is very rare that NY Giants win.

All the fuss about the “is Eli ELIte or not question” but folks sometimes forget to realize that Eli was asked the question. He didn’t just go out there and state “hey, I am in same class as Tom Brady.” He was asked the question and he answered it in the only way that he should have. Then he went out, had a great regular season and then an incredible post season where he threw for more yards in a single post season than any other QB in NFL history.The reporter asked him the question. Eli gave his verbal answer and then he went out and let his play do the talking.

BuffyBlueII
11-18-2012, 11:58 PM
well Buffy , 3 straight posts blasting cannons at me out of nowhere.
pleased to meet you...and howdy ma'am ....and ...you go girl !!

:cool:

Hehehehe.....I am not blasting cannons at you, just responding to the posts. Excuse me if I offended you, it was not my intention.

FYI, I am a man. :)

YATittle1962
11-19-2012, 12:04 AM
if we are going by the literal definition of the word

I dont think there are 10 QBs better than Eli in the league

and in general consensus the top ten of anything would be considered cream of the crop so to speak

therefor he would be among the group of elite players at his position

stormblue
11-19-2012, 12:05 AM
Hehehehe.....I am not blasting cannons at you, just responding to the posts. Excuse me if I offended you, it was not my intention.

FYI, I am a man. :)

sorry , never met a dude named Buffy.

GCGiant
11-19-2012, 09:47 AM
Amazing how our opinions change after Eli has a few rough games.
There are a few here that have been waiting a long time for this...and to be honest, I knew the day was coming. Eli is elite if he is protected, has receivers that can create separation, and has some sort of running game to keep the defense honest. In this scenario, he would be MVP every year, however we may never know. I compare him favorably to QB's like Brady and even his brother. If you take away one or two of those aspects and they become very average...especially the protection and we only have to look at our SB's to see what you can do to Brady if you don't give him time.

There are QB's out there that can succeed without great protection...for a while...but it seems these guys end up on the sideline for a stretch just about every year. How many times have you seen teams with QB's like these that head into the playoffs with their top QB out with injury?

I think the real problem here on this board is that there are people here who lived through the Simms era and became very attached to him. They don't want anyone else to come and take his crown, and that is understandable. I would venture to say that it happens all the time with other fans of other teams. I can only imagine if anyone ever went to SF and challenged Montana's legend. It would be ugly would be putting it mildly.

Like it was said before, elite is a subjective word. There is no set standard such as certain stats over a certain time to define it. Like I said before, I consider Eli elite because of the fact that he is chosen to endorse so many things, especially the ads that try to control the evils of the world. Not only has Eli accomplished a lot on the field, but he has gone about it in a way that is very honorable in a place that is not very conducive to such behavior. IMO, that makes him elite...but again, it will always just be an opinion when talking about a word like "elite".