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Cool Papa B.
11-13-2012, 02:16 PM
"No, he is not one of the elites," Simms said in quotes distributed by CBS. "Because when I hear the word elite, I'm thinking about guys that can make unbelievable plays on the field by themselves. There are very few quarterbacks in that category.

"So yes, Eli has been a tremendous team player. He has been MVP of the Super Bowl twice. I know that. But the way I look at it, the answer is no."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/simms-eli-nfl-elite-qbs-article-1.1201145#ixzz2C8Eaubto

Here we go again.....

Eliscruzzz
11-13-2012, 02:21 PM
Phil Simms was a great Giants quarterback but why, why say this??? I know he gets paid for his opinion but does this mean Romo is an elite qb cause he makes unbelievable plays?? Eli has made unbelievable plays too. 2 That come to mind is sb 42 and sb 46. Man what does this guy have to do to get some respect??

shane4177
11-13-2012, 02:21 PM
Ah Simms himself is/was not elite either.......saw his career stats, nothing special.

RoanokeFan
11-13-2012, 02:22 PM
Well, if anyone was wondering what we'd talk about for two weeks.......

Rusty192
11-13-2012, 02:25 PM
Well, if anyone was wondering what we'd talk about for two weeks.......lol

and so it begins!!!!

ashleymarie
11-13-2012, 02:26 PM
Well, if anyone was wondering what we'd talk about for two weeks.......

Two great minds think alike. LOL

sharick88
11-13-2012, 02:26 PM
"No, he is not one of the elites," Simms said in quotes distributed by CBS. "Because when I hear the word elite, I'm thinking about guys that can make unbelievable plays on the field by themselves. There are very few quarterbacks in that category.

"So yes, Eli has been a tremendous team player. He has been MVP of the Super Bowl twice. I know that. But the way I look at it, the answer is no."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/simms-eli-nfl-elite-qbs-article-1.1201145#ixzz2C8Eaubto

Here we go again.....

Honestly, he is right. He has been a mess for the last 4 games. Out of the elite QB's in the NFL, how many of those guys have had 4 game slumps like this? I like Elli as our QB, but I have to agree with Simms on this one.

bigjeep
11-13-2012, 02:26 PM
Simms can kiss my ***!

Harooni
11-13-2012, 02:26 PM
oh boy here comes the Simms hate now. lets go look at simms home record for nov/dec its pretty darn good . and not in an era where you cant sneeze on a qb like today,

sharick88
11-13-2012, 02:27 PM
This thread will have 10 pages minimum close of business today.

xRick52x
11-13-2012, 02:27 PM
"No, he is not one of the elites," Simms said in quotes distributed by CBS. "Because when I hear the word elite, I'm thinking about guys that can make unbelievable plays on the field by themselves. There are very few quarterbacks in that category.

"So yes, Eli has been a tremendous team player. He has been MVP of the Super Bowl twice. I know that. But the way I look at it, the answer is no."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/simms-eli-nfl-elite-qbs-article-1.1201145#ixzz2C8Eaubto

Here we go again.....

NO, here YOU go again....thanks for nothing, sir!

Eliscruzzz
11-13-2012, 02:28 PM
Rodgers had a bad stretch of games too in the very beginning of the season and no one was saying he wasn't elite. Eli will turn this around.

Rudyy
11-13-2012, 02:28 PM
20 page thread in 3 days, book it.

bigjeep
11-13-2012, 02:29 PM
oh boy here comes the Simms hate now. lets go look at simms home record for nov/dec its pretty darn good . and not in an era where you cant sneeze on a qb like today,

Simms was a good manager! Never made the plays that Eli has made!

Harooni
11-13-2012, 02:29 PM
Rodgers had a bad strech of games too in the very beginning of the season and no one was saying he wasn't elite. Eli will turn this around. maybe TC got simms to call eli out, seems to work when eli is called out he rises to the challenge

Cool Papa B.
11-13-2012, 02:29 PM
Honestly, he is right. He has been a mess for the last 4 games. Out of the elite QB's in the NFL, how many of those guys have had 4 game slumps like this? I like Elli as our QB, but I have to agree with Simms on this one.

You forgot to post this in red.

Buddy333
11-13-2012, 02:31 PM
This thread will surpass 10 pages this afternoon.

dillyyo1972
11-13-2012, 02:31 PM
I loved Phil and always thought he was an underrated QB, but he is talking nonsense. Eli might be the most wildly inconsistent elite QB in football history, but the kid has way more often come through in the clutch than not. Not to mention the magnitude of the games that he has done it in. Can't say I would take Eli over someone like Rodgers or Drew because the roller coaster seasons cut my life expectancy, but I have developed a feeling like Eli can get us out of any reasonable hole, no matter what the game situation is.

bigjeep
11-13-2012, 02:32 PM
maybe TC got simms to call eli out, seems to work when eli is called out he rises to the challenge

I also can rise to the challange!

Cool Papa B.
11-13-2012, 02:33 PM
NO, here YOU go again....thanks for nothing, sir!

?????.....

Uhmm.....you're welcome. And that's Mr. Cool Papa for you.

Rusty192
11-13-2012, 02:34 PM
The funny thing is Eli will go on a tear like he always does and completely light it up. People and their comments are prisoners of the moment.

What's with former Giants taking their pot shots? Quite puzzling.

Harooni
11-13-2012, 02:34 PM
eli has thrown more ints then any qb since his start. but at the same time great comeback wins and 4th qtr play to win sb's. its really hard to define what kind of qb Eli is.

He is a new breed a two faced QB

joemorrisforprez
11-13-2012, 02:34 PM
And to think just a few weeks ago the argument was "is Eli the best QB in the NFL"?

xRick52x
11-13-2012, 02:35 PM
maybe TC got simms to call eli out, seems to work when eli is called out he rises to the challenge

Either way, something (or someone) needs to fire these guys up a bit!

Harooni
11-13-2012, 02:35 PM
I also can rise to the challange! ewwww thanks for sharing

TheEnigma
11-13-2012, 02:35 PM
Eli was elite in 2011 and the beginning of this season. Not so much recently but I truly believe that a combination of external factors aren't exactly helping him out either. Pass Protection has been shoddy, receivers are dropping crucial passes, Gilbride's scheme has been exposed, I could go on and on...

Matt Ryan might take his place (and I mean that from a media standpoint) depending on what happens in the postseason with the Falcons.

RoanokeFan
11-13-2012, 02:36 PM
The funny thing is Eli will go on a tear like he always does and completely light it up. People and their comments are prisoners of the moment.

What's with former Giants taking their pot shots? Quite puzzling.

They are media heads and that's their job

Rusty192
11-13-2012, 02:36 PM
eli has thrown more ints then any qb since his start. but at the same time great comeback wins and 4th qtr play to win sb's. its really hard to define what kind of qb Eli is.

He is a new breed a two faced QBHarooni alone will make this thread reach 400 posts.

egyptian420
11-13-2012, 02:37 PM
I loved Phil and always thought he was an underrated QB, but he is talking nonsense. Eli might be the most wildly inconsistent elite QB in football history, but the kid has way more often come through in the clutch than not. Not to mention the magnitude of the games that he has done it in. Can't say I would take Eli over someone like Rodgers or Drew because the roller coaster seasons cut my life expectancy, but I have developed a feeling like Eli can get us out of any reasonable hole, no matter what the game situation is.This

Rusty192
11-13-2012, 02:38 PM
They are media heads and that's their jobAnd they are real good at it. ;)

dezzzR
11-13-2012, 02:38 PM
And to think just a few weeks ago the argument was "is Eli the best QB in the NFL"?Seriously. its ******ed

Harooni
11-13-2012, 02:39 PM
Harooni alone will make this thread reach 400 posts. lol, i did realize that Simms can be pessimistic at times after playing madden 13. i dont watch much afc games really. I dont think Eli is avg. he is just weird.

Hooligans
11-13-2012, 02:39 PM
Phil Simms was a great Giants quarterback but why, why say this??? I know he gets paid for his opinion but does this mean Romo is an elite qb cause he makes unbelievable plays?? Eli has made unbelievable plays too. 2 That come to mind is sb 42 and sb 46. Man what does this guy have to do to get some respect??

Simms said it because it is true.

YATittle1962
11-13-2012, 02:39 PM
this "elite" discussion is absolutely meaningless

every person you talk to has a different definition of the word as it pertains to a QB

Eli is our franchise and he will be until he is not anymore

why not talk about a topic that means something?......because this has absolutely no meaning whatsoever nor does it have an impact on how his play on the field will progress or regress

Hooligans
11-13-2012, 02:40 PM
This from Pro Football Today's power ranking after week 10 games:

11. Giants: Eli Manning doesn’t have a tired arm; his arm is in a coma.

Rudyy
11-13-2012, 02:40 PM
At this point, who the hell cares anymore?

RoanokeFan
11-13-2012, 02:42 PM
And they are real good at it. ;)

Phil Simms is one of my personal favorite former players. Someone responded that he also wasn't elite, and I agree with that. But Phil Simms was something to watch in that day and he played when beating up the QB was encouraged.

I don't think the fact that it's Phil Simms saying it makes it any worse or less/more valid than any other talking head.

TheAnalyst
11-13-2012, 02:43 PM
Here we go again. Eli will be elite one day, and not elite another day, then elite, then not. Whatever. He sucks right now. He is having one of the worst stretches in his career. Oh well. If he gets us another championship at the end of the year, he will be elite again. Im tired of this.

Corey Webster was also elite last year, and now completely sucks this year. Whatevs. Chris Johnson was elite a few years ago, now is a bust. Cam Newtown was elite last year, now sucks.

Flavor of the week.

Cloud57
11-13-2012, 02:43 PM
Phil Simms can say whatever he wants but this is a good thing because this team only plays better when criticized including Eli, people were saying he's the best QB in the league, then he comes out playing like s*** hopefully this will motivate him to play better.

sharick88
11-13-2012, 02:44 PM
Rodgers had a bad stretch of games too in the very beginning of the season and no one was saying he wasn't elite. Eli will turn this around.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/8439/aaron-rodgers

I wouldn't necessarily call those a bad stretch of games.

egyptian420
11-13-2012, 02:44 PM
At this point, who the hell cares anymore?LOL

Hooligans
11-13-2012, 02:45 PM
Phil Simms can say whatever he wants but this is a good thing because this team only plays better when criticized including Eli, people were saying he's the best QB in the league, then he comes out playing like s*** hopefully this will motivate him to play better.

NOBODY ever said Eli was the best in the league.......not even his mother.

GameTime
11-13-2012, 02:45 PM
At this point, who the hell cares anymore?

yep...+1

sharick88
11-13-2012, 02:47 PM
Elite or not, I am happy to have him, despite any flaws he may have. You have to take the good in with the bad. The thing about Eli haters is that they only look at the bad and the Eli lovers forget about the bad. Stay right down the middle with him and you will be GTG

TheEnigma
11-13-2012, 02:48 PM
Is Simms an elite analyst? Discuss.

sharick88
11-13-2012, 02:50 PM
Is Simms an elite analyst? Discuss.

I don't watch enough AFC games to actually have a real opinion. My brother though, who is a Bills fan, tells me that he drools over Tom Brady.

sharick88
11-13-2012, 02:50 PM
5 pages so far. 15 more to go

Eli2Shockey4aTD
11-13-2012, 02:53 PM
Is Simms an elite analyst? Discuss.

No he is up there, but once in awhile he says quiestionable things and underperforms multiple boradcasts in a row while others may only have an off day here and there. I think he should get a bye week to collect his thoughts and get away from football before he says anything else that is pointless. Of course he may just not be getting enough helped and exposed to too much bad information and runs with it. His team needs to step it up and stop exposing him to nonsense.

BuffyBlueII
11-13-2012, 02:53 PM
Nobody has ever accused Phil Simms of being a great analyst or being unbiased. I think Phil is talking out his butt on this one but I have no hate for him and I am not going to spew anger at him. The guy is a legendary NY Giant and one tough SOB.

Phil Simms was a great NY Giant. In another system with another coach, he would have had way better stats, although his career stats are not that shabby. The guy did throw for 500+ in a game twice and had a virtually flawless performance in SuperBowl. Heck, Bill Walsh was scrambling trying to trade to draft Phil Simms because of his size, instincts and arm strength. Can you imagine the numbers Phil Simms would have posted in San Francisco under Coach Walsh?

I have mad love for Phil Simms and will always appreciate what he did for NY Giants. I think Phil is just a little upset because Eli will soon surpass him in virtually every passing category in NY Giants history.

It is okay Phil. You were great but Eli is The Best QB in NY Giants History.

Morehead State
11-13-2012, 02:53 PM
Ah Simms himself is/was not elite either.......saw his career stats, nothing special.
I saw his career. He was very special.

But anyway....Is it required that only elite QB's can decide what QB is or isn't elite? If so, we all need to shut up.

Harooni
11-13-2012, 02:54 PM
This from Pro Football Today's power ranking after week 10 games:

11. Giants: Eli Manning doesn’t have a tired arm; his arm is in a coma. lol

Rusty192
11-13-2012, 02:54 PM
I don't watch enough AFC games to actually have a real opinion. My brother though, who is a Bills fan, tells me that he drools over Tom Brady.I've finally figured it out. Phil Simms is Morehead. And it took me this long to realize it...

Morehead State
11-13-2012, 02:55 PM
NOBODY ever said Eli was the best in the league.......not even his mother.
You obviously haven't been reading this MB since SB 46.

RoanokeFan
11-13-2012, 02:56 PM
Is Simms an elite analyst? Discuss.

Seriously?

RoanokeFan
11-13-2012, 02:56 PM
You obviously haven't been reading this MB since SB 46.

+1

Rusty192
11-13-2012, 02:57 PM
Phil Simms is one of my personal favorite former players. Someone responded that he also wasn't elite, and I agree with that. But Phil Simms was something to watch in that day and he played when beating up the QB was encouraged.

I don't think the fact that it's Phil Simms saying it makes it any worse or less/more valid than any other talking head.yeah he's just trying to make an honest living........by stirring up ***. :p

RoanokeFan
11-13-2012, 02:57 PM
5 pages so far. 15 more to go

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRNpbfTmP9MauwDwv0wBxGgtkyGZFDvv qsfKftdYKOCt3FDcDJk

TheEnigma
11-13-2012, 02:58 PM
Seriously?

Poking fun at the elite labels RF. I got Mike Mayock as my #1 and I'm just not sure where to place Simms. He has his moment where he fanboys over certain players but he can be pretty objective at other times. I question his consistency.

GameTime
11-13-2012, 02:58 PM
Simms is a great Giant and beloved by 99% of Giants fans and he was far from Elite.
Eli is a better overall QB (IMO) and gets less love overall. So what and who cares. Eli and his crew have two SBs. Good enough for me.....

RoanokeFan
11-13-2012, 02:58 PM
yeah he's just trying to make an honest living........by stirring up ***. :p

That's what they do, they get paid to do it. We make that possible.

dillyyo1972
11-13-2012, 02:58 PM
This from Pro Football Today's power ranking after week 10 games:

11. Giants: Eli Manning doesn’t have a tired arm; his arm is in a coma.

This whole "tired arm" crap is nothing but BS. The guy is one of the toughest QB's in today's game and one of the few that I feel could have still had a long career back in the day when QB's weren't treated like girls by the refs. Clear as day to me that the team together is dysfunctional and in some way create mental hurdles for themselves, season after season. The season will depend on if THIS YEAR the team breaks through their own mental hurdles. When we are clicking on all cylinders I don't believe we can be beat by any current team out there. Unfortunately, we just don't like clicking on all cylinders most of the year. lol

Rusty192
11-13-2012, 02:59 PM
That's what they do, they get paid to do it. We make that possible.yup sadly lol

Harooni
11-13-2012, 02:59 PM
if you go off eli;s career numbers you see last year he was very good, but other than that no "
elite" stats now if you are going off his 2 min drill comebacks intangibles and sb's i can see that also. But for the most part Simms is correct.

hopefully this lights that fire under eli.

dezzzR
11-13-2012, 02:59 PM
Poking fun at the elite labels RF. I got Mike Mayock as my #1 and I'm just not sure where to place Simms. He has his moment where he fanboys over certain players but he can be pretty objective at other times. I question his consistency.lol

Rusty192
11-13-2012, 03:01 PM
if you go off eli;s career numbers you see last year he was very good, but other than that no "
elite" stats now if you are going off his 2 min drill comebacks intangibles and sb's i can see that also. But for the most part Simms is correct.

hopefully this lights that fire under eli.man rooni's having a field day! I haven't seen him this excited since Tiki threatened to come back in the league. Or when Sehorn was in 'Days of our lives'

dillyyo1972
11-13-2012, 03:03 PM
Phil Simms is one of my personal favorite former players. Someone responded that he also wasn't elite, and I agree with that. But Phil Simms was something to watch in that day and he played when beating up the QB was encouraged.

I don't think the fact that it's Phil Simms saying it makes it any worse or less/more valid than any other talking head.

This is true, but Phil seems to be carrying a chip on his shoulders about various Giants players. He's made derisive comments about some over the years, but that's always been Phil. It shows on Inside The NFL with him and Chris and it shows the way he announces games. Somewhat Joe Theisman like, if you ask me.

Morehead State
11-13-2012, 03:03 PM
I'm very upset!!!!
We have the potential for a knock down, drag out thread with lots of vitriol and name calling.....and I have **** to do.

Nothing is going right today!!!

RoanokeFan
11-13-2012, 03:05 PM
Simms is a great Giant and beloved by 99% of Giants fans and he was far from Elite.
Eli is a better overall QB (IMO) and gets less love overall. So what and who cares. Eli and his crew have two SBs. Good enough for me.....

HOF = Elite

dillyyo1972
11-13-2012, 03:05 PM
I don't watch enough AFC games to actually have a real opinion. My brother though, who is a Bills fan, tells me that he drools over Tom Brady.

That's because the Pats are run by Bill B. and Phil drools over his jock, but then I do too. LOL

GameTime
11-13-2012, 03:06 PM
HOF = Elite

sorry Ro....
Joe Namath not Elite. More picks than TDs....

BlueSanta
11-13-2012, 03:07 PM
I am a little confused here because I watched Phil on Inside the NFL say the exact opposite of what this article claims he is saying now.

TheEnigma
11-13-2012, 03:08 PM
sorry Ro....
Joe Namath not Elite. More picks than TDs....

Well, Joe Namath got into the HoF because of the story behind SB3 and his prediction. I think he's a special case lol.

Harooni
11-13-2012, 03:08 PM
man rooni's having a field day! I haven't seen him this excited since Tiki threatened to come back in the league. Or when Sehorn was in 'Days of our lives' haha you are on a roll today

Morehead State
11-13-2012, 03:08 PM
sorry Ro....
Joe Namath not Elite. More picks than TDs....
Joe Namath was great. Maybe the purest passer of all time.
Stats are not the sole standard in the NFL. If they were Drew Bledsoe and Vinny Testeverde would be shoe ins for the Hall.

Eliscruzzz
11-13-2012, 03:10 PM
eli has thrown more ints then any qb since his start. but at the same time great comeback wins and 4th qtr play to win sb's. its really hard to define what kind of qb Eli is.

He is a new breed a two faced QBYou really think that our complex scheme has nothing to do with his ints??? Come on man give the guy some damn respect. Ints. are not everything. He just started his prime and already threw for 30,000 yards and by the time this year ends he will have over 200 td's. He is elite. You must be one of those fans that are stuck on Simms and never want someone to succeed over him. What other QB's are putting up the numberd he has?? It's a very few. To me Simms would've been better off saying that he considers Elite one or two players instead of what he said.

Harooni
11-13-2012, 03:10 PM
Warner said it best, Eli will need that league MVP in todays passing first nfl. guys are putting up numbers and you cant stick them all in the HOF it doesnt work that way.

Harooni
11-13-2012, 03:12 PM
You really think that our complex scheme has nothing to do with his ints??? Come on man give the guy some damn respect. Ints. are not everything. He just started his prime and already threw for 30,000 yards and by the time this year ends he will have over 200 td's. He is elite. You must be one of those fans that are stuck on Simms and never want someone to succeed over him. What other QB's are putting up the numberd he has?? It's a very few. To me Simms would've been better off saying that he considers Elite one or two players instead of what he said. remember the rules are different than 20 years ago. you will see many qb's achieve 30,000 and 200 td passes. hell, you will see 5,000 a season and 30 plus a year more and more just keep watching.

RoanokeFan
11-13-2012, 03:12 PM
if you go off eli;s career numbers you see last year he was very good, but other than that no "
elite" stats now if you are going off his 2 min drill comebacks intangibles and sb's i can see that also. But for the most part Simms is correct.

hopefully this lights that fire under eli.

25 pages anyone? :popcorn:

Eli2Shockey4aTD
11-13-2012, 03:12 PM
Simms should get more Hall notice and Eli will get into the HoF barring serious injury.

Morehead State
11-13-2012, 03:13 PM
You really think that our complex scheme has nothing to do with his ints??? Come on man give the guy some damn respect. Ints. are not everything. He just started his prime and already threw for 30,000 yards and by the time this year ends he will have over 200 td's. He is elite. You must be one of those fans that are stuck on Simms and never want someone to succeed over him. What other QB's are putting up the numberd he has?? It's a very few. To me Simms would've been better off saying that he considers Elite one or two players instead of what he said.
You put Simms in this system, coddle him like this staff has coddled Eli, given him Plaxico Burress, Amani Toomer, Hakeem Nicks and Victor Cruz (instead of Byron Williams, Lionel Manuel, Ernest Gray and Bobby Johnson) let him play with these rules in the secondary and roughing the QB, and he puts up all time great numbers.

Eliscruzzz
11-13-2012, 03:14 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/8439/aaron-rodgers

I wouldn't necessarily call those a bad stretch of games.lol he had 4td''s and 3 int. that not that great....my point was he went through a bad stretch of games too it happens.

TheEnigma
11-13-2012, 03:15 PM
remember the rules are different than 20 years ago. you will see many qb's achieve 30,000 and 200 td passes. hell, you will see 5,000 a season and 30 plus a year more and more just keep watching.

I'm sure Andrew Luck will hit 6,000 at some point in his career. That will be an amazing year of football.

TheAnalyst
11-13-2012, 03:15 PM
Warner said it best, Eli will need that league MVP in todays passing first nfl. guys are putting up numbers and you cant stick them all in the HOF it doesnt work that way.

No, they all dont... only the ones with 2 Superbowl MVP rings and multiple ProBowl selections to go with it?

Harooni
11-13-2012, 03:15 PM
You put Simms in this system, coddle him like this staff has coddled Eli, given him Plaxico Burress, Amani Toomer, Hakeem Nicks and Victor Cruz (instead of Byron Williams, Lionel Manuel, Ernest Gray and Bobby Johnson) let him play with these rules in the secondary and roughing the QB, and he puts up all time great numbers.bingo at the end of the day simms was more accurate and played better at home during nov/dec. simms would also stay in the pocket step up and deliver the ball not spin and shy away and heave it up for grabs.

RoanokeFan
11-13-2012, 03:15 PM
You put Simms in this system, coddle him like this staff has coddled Eli, given him Plaxico Burress, Amani Toomer, Hakeem Nicks and Victor Cruz (instead of Byron Williams, Lionel Manuel, Ernest Gray and Bobby Johnson) let him play with these rules in the secondary and roughing the QB, and he puts up all time great numbers.

AND, Beatty would have caught Simms' pass :)

tcseacliff
11-13-2012, 03:20 PM
Simms does not care for the giants. Eli included. you hear it in his voice when he calls the games. the name Simms and Elite never show up in the same sentence . Elite is not always the numbers. Eli has a presence as an elite QB and many times does play like and elite QB. Simms could only wish to have that! F Simms!

RoanokeFan
11-13-2012, 03:21 PM
Simms does not care for the giants. Eli included. you hear it in his voice when he calls the games. the name Simms and Elite never show up in the same sentence . Elite is not always the numbers. Eli has a presence as an elite QB and many times does play like and elite QB. Simms could only wish to have that! F Simms!

Did you ever see Simms play?

Harooni
11-13-2012, 03:21 PM
I mean if Simms, Warner Toomer, Tiki, Shockey Plaxico and Strahan said it at one point. Can we really say its all them and they are wrong?

joemorrisforprez
11-13-2012, 03:22 PM
bingo at the end of the day simms was more accurate and played better at home during nov/dec. simms would also stay in the pocket step up and deliver the ball not spin and shy away and heave it up for grabs.

When Phil Simms had time, he was virtually unstoppable.....it was either caught, or dropped, but he threw it on a rope, and hit his receivers between the numbers.

Seriously, he would absolutely carve up defenses.....but if he didn't have the time, he was a mess, because he was Dan Fouts slow.

Another thing.....of all the yardage Simms threw for, so many of them came on 3rd down. The old Giants ran a **** ton more than now.

If the NFL had a stat for "most 3rd down passing yardage while getting drilled in the ribs" .....Phil would be the all-time NFL leader.

sharick88
11-13-2012, 03:24 PM
lol he had 4td''s and 3 int. that not that great....my point was he went through a bad stretch of games too it happens.

It's better than 2 tds and 6 ints in a 5 game stretch. Yes, a 5 game stretch!! Those numbers are Sanchezlike. Anyways, don't get it twisted. I am an Eli fan. IMO, he isn't an elite guy right now. He'll be better no doubt, but you have the take the bad in with the good.

Harooni
11-13-2012, 03:24 PM
Simms does not care for the giants. Eli included. you hear it in his voice when he calls the games. the name Simms and Elite never show up in the same sentence . Elite is not always the numbers. Eli has a presence as an elite QB and many times does play like and elite QB. Simms could only wish to have that! F Simms! what?? SB XXI 22 of 25 passes completed for 268 yards and three touchdowns

and yet if eli throws 1 td the whole game you all call him elite and best player on the team. come on now be fair

BeatYale
11-13-2012, 03:25 PM
I don't totally agree with Simms, but I definitely understand why someone would say that. Outside of the 2 Super Bowl runs Eli hasn't been great when it comes to production. "But but but Eli is great in the 4th quarter"....that's the niche Eli has had to keep his name in the debate along with the 2 Super Bowl MVPs. What about all the issues though? Throughout the Coughlin era Eli and KG are the biggest constants on offense. Eli has to share a lot of the blame for the teams redzone issues. Elite QB's put up a lot of touchdowns. There's no debating that. So it's difficult to make strong arguments for Eli when he struggles in that department.

joemorrisforprez
11-13-2012, 03:26 PM
Simms does not care for the giants. Eli included. you hear it in his voice when he calls the games. the name Simms and Elite never show up in the same sentence . Elite is not always the numbers. Eli has a presence as an elite QB and many times does play like and elite QB. Simms could only wish to have that! F Simms!

I disagree completely.

Simms has a job to do as an analyst.....but he'll always be a NY Giant.

Toadofsteel
11-13-2012, 03:27 PM
Honestly, he is right. He has been a mess for the last 4 games. Out of the elite QB's in the NFL, how many of those guys have had 4 game slumps like this? I like Elli as our QB, but I have to agree with Simms on this one.

Well, to be fair, Brees started off the season with a 4-game skid, but you can just as easily blame that on lack of Payton.

Eliscruzzz
11-13-2012, 03:28 PM
I don't even care anymore... I wouldn't trade Eli for anyone. He doesn't need to prove anything to Phil Simms. He will go down as the Giants greatest quarterback of all time and that's fine with me. Yes he will be better then Simms when all is said and done.

BuffyBlueII
11-13-2012, 03:28 PM
You put Simms in this system, coddle him like this staff has coddled Eli, given him Plaxico Burress, Amani Toomer, Hakeem Nicks and Victor Cruz (instead of Byron Williams, Lionel Manuel, Ernest Gray and Bobby Johnson) let him play with these rules in the secondary and roughing the QB, and he puts up all time great numbers.


If you take Eli Manning and put him in the system that Phil Simms was in, Eli would have dominated that era. The system Phil Simms was in was painless and seamless. Eli would have thrived with that O line and run game. Heck, if Eli Manning were the QB back then, Mark Bavarro may have put up Gronkowski numbers. Our O line and run game was so great that when Hoss, a guy that ran a 4.28 40 took over, he rarely had to run.

I think Phil Simms would have had issues with this system under Gillbride. I am not saying that he would not have gotten it but it would have taken him longer than Eli. Heck, it took Phil awhile to get the system he was in down and that one was simple as it gets.

I am not spewing angst at Phil but in my opinion, Eli is a better QB.

Dwinsballgames
11-13-2012, 03:29 PM
I don't even care anymore... I wouldn't trade Eli for anyone. He doesn't need to prove anything to Phil Simms. He will go down as the Giants greatest quarterback of all time and that's fine with me. Yes he will be better then Simms when all is said and done.

pretty much this

sharick88
11-13-2012, 03:31 PM
Well, to be fair, Brees started off the season with a 4-game skid, but you can just as easily blame that on lack of Payton.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/2580/drew-brees

Their defense is horrible. That factors into that 4 game skid to start as well. He still got his though.

Harooni
11-13-2012, 03:32 PM
If you take Eli Manning and put him in the system that Phil Simms was in, Eli would have dominated that era. The system Phil Simms was in was painless and seamless. Eli would have thrived with that O line and run game. Heck, if Eli Manning were the QB back then, Mark Bavarro may have put up Gronkowski numbers. Our O line and run game was so great that when Hoss, a guy that ran a 4.28 40 took over, he rarely had to run.

I think Phil Simms would have had issues with this system under Gillbride. I am not saying that he would not have gotten it but it would have taken him longer than Eli. Heck, it took Phil awhile to get the system he was in down and that one was simple as it gets.

I am not spewing angst at Phil but in my opinion, Eli is a better QB. you couldn't be more wrong because eli hates to take sacks, he throws it up into double coverage hoping the wr talent can make plays on the ball and Eli doesn't have the accuracy simms had. in that era you could kill a QB, if eli gets touched he makes a face.

sharick88
11-13-2012, 03:32 PM
Halfway home to 20 pages.

RoanokeFan
11-13-2012, 03:32 PM
I disagree completely.

Simms has a job to do as an analyst.....but he'll always be a NY Giant.

+1

Kendo15
11-13-2012, 03:34 PM
WTF does elite mean?

I could not give a flying furry one if Eli is elite or not.

It's wholly subjective, media coined term, it means jack diddley squat.

He's our QB and I for one am grateful.

He's taken us to the big one twice, he'll take us to the big one two or three more times before he hangs it up.

That either makes him elite or it doesn't ........... either way, you'll never confuse me with someone who gives a ****.

dezzzR
11-13-2012, 03:35 PM
Maybe Phils jealous of Elis success....and the fact that hes a few tds away from breaking his record. Didnt Phil say Eli is elite after superbowl 46? I could be wrong

Harooni
11-13-2012, 03:35 PM
and another thing Simms knows what elite play is.

• 88.0% completion rate (Super Bowl record)
• 150.92 passer rating (Super Bowl record)

Gimaniac
11-13-2012, 03:35 PM
Simms is jealous Eli has 2 rings as QB, when he had to sit out and watch Hoss finish the job the second time around.

Then he eventually lost the starting job to Hoss.

Me thinks he still burns up inside and has some animosity towards the Giants.

sharick88
11-13-2012, 03:36 PM
Actually, Phil Simms does call Eli Manning "the elite one" in Madden 13. LOL

Rusty192
11-13-2012, 03:37 PM
WTF does elite mean?

I could not give a flying furry one if Eli is elite or not.

It's wholly subjective, media coined term, it means jack diddley squat.

He's our QB and I for one am grateful.

He's taken us to the big one twice, he'll take us to the big one two or three more times before he hangs it up.

That either makes him elite or it doesn't ........... either way, you'll never confuse me with someone who gives a ****.But people like their little words.

joemorrisforprez
11-13-2012, 03:37 PM
I didn't check the entire thread, but has anyone mentioned that in the same article, Dan Fouts disagrees with Phil?





But Hall of Fame quarterback Dan Fouts -- also appearing on the show -- disagreed with Simms’ assessment of Manning.

“You can’t spell ‘elite’ without ‘Eli’. The pressure situations that Eli has thrived in over his short career in my mind make him an elite quarterback," the former Chargers quarterback said. "Because that is when you’re judged. How well you do when the pressure is on, when you’ve got to win the game. And all you have to do is look back at his two Super Bowl wins and the way he beat the Patriots.”

Read more: Simms: Giants' Manning not among NFL's QB elite http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/giantsblog/simms_giants_manning_not_among_nfl_Av8AFLq9E7RceEH DvDF8iK#ixzz2C8YJ8fzn

Rusty192
11-13-2012, 03:38 PM
Actually, Phil Simms does call Eli Manning "the elite one" in Madden 13. LOLhaha talk about wishy washy. He's worse than this board lol

RoanokeFan
11-13-2012, 03:38 PM
Simms is jealous Eli has 2 rings as QB, when he had to sit out and watch Hoss finish the job the second time around.

Then he eventually lost the starting job to Hoss.

Me thinks he still burns up inside and has some animosity towards the Giants.

Simms has two rings

Rusty192
11-13-2012, 03:38 PM
I didn't check the entire thread, but has anyone mentioned that in the same article, Dan Fouts disagrees with Phil?Yes but that kind of talk doesn't grab the ratings.

Gimaniac
11-13-2012, 03:39 PM
Simms has two rings

Yup, second one on IR.

Harooni
11-13-2012, 03:39 PM
Simms is jealous Eli has 2 rings as QB, when he had to sit out and watch Hoss finish the job the second time around.

Then he eventually lost the starting job to Hoss.

Me thinks he still burns up inside and has some animosity towards the Giants. jealous my foot, he was injured.

he had the best SB performance of any QB, (not just in the 4th qtr when the other team is tired and in soft zone with a lead)

when Simms went 22-25 during SB XXI 2 incomplete passes were flat out drops and 1 he threw away to avoid a sack. he was perfection. no QB will ever touch his SB performance.

dezzzR
11-13-2012, 03:40 PM
Simms has two ringsBut not that second sb mvp. And Elis breaking all his records....:p

Gimaniac
11-13-2012, 03:40 PM
jealous my foot, he was injured.

he had the best SB performance of any QB, (not just in the 4th qtr when the other team is tired and in soft zone with a lead)

when Simms went 22-25 during SB XXI 2 incomplete passes were flat out drops and 1 he threw away to avoid a sack. he was perfection. no QB will ever touch his SB performance.

Yes, but it ended ugly between him and Gmen.

Morehead State
11-13-2012, 03:41 PM
If you take Eli Manning and put him in the system that Phil Simms was in, Eli would have dominated that era. The system Phil Simms was in was painless and seamless. Eli would have thrived with that O line and run game. Heck, if Eli Manning were the QB back then, Mark Bavarro may have put up Gronkowski numbers. Our O line and run game was so great that when Hoss, a guy that ran a 4.28 40 took over, he rarely had to run.

I think Phil Simms would have had issues with this system under Gillbride. I am not saying that he would not have gotten it but it would have taken him longer than Eli. Heck, it took Phil awhile to get the system he was in down and that one was simple as it gets.

I am not spewing angst at Phil but in my opinion, Eli is a better QB.

Phil threw for 4000 yards before Bavaro was on the team. His top pass catcher had 48 catches that season.
And no insult but Eli doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to have played for Parcells back then. Takes a unique guy to deal with Bill.

dillyyo1972
11-13-2012, 03:41 PM
what?? SB XXI 22 of 25 passes completed for 268 yards and three touchdowns

and yet if eli throws 1 td the whole game you all call him elite and best player on the team. come on now be fair

It works both ways. If Eli had that defense with the greatest defensive player of all time, that running/play action game, HOF coach in Bill P. and possibly the greatest coach of all time in Bill B., do you really think Eli wouldn't possibly equal or exceed what Phil did? Eli has shown he probably could have taken the hits QB's did then. Maybe Phil wouldn't have been so accurate in this receiver option route offense and maybe Eli would be more accurate in the receiver single route offense Phil played behind.

Morehead State
11-13-2012, 03:42 PM
Yup, second one on IR.
Started that season 10-0.

RoanokeFan
11-13-2012, 03:43 PM
Yup, second one on IR.

After he got the team enough wins

dillyyo1972
11-13-2012, 03:43 PM
If you take Eli Manning and put him in the system that Phil Simms was in, Eli would have dominated that era. The system Phil Simms was in was painless and seamless. Eli would have thrived with that O line and run game. Heck, if Eli Manning were the QB back then, Mark Bavarro may have put up Gronkowski numbers. Our O line and run game was so great that when Hoss, a guy that ran a 4.28 40 took over, he rarely had to run.

I think Phil Simms would have had issues with this system under Gillbride. I am not saying that he would not have gotten it but it would have taken him longer than Eli. Heck, it took Phil awhile to get the system he was in down and that one was simple as it gets.

I am not spewing angst at Phil but in my opinion, Eli is a better QB.

Are you saying Hostetler ran a 4.28 40yd?!

Rudyy
11-13-2012, 03:43 PM
I'm changing my prediction.
35 pages in one day, 2 days max.

RoanokeFan
11-13-2012, 03:44 PM
Yes, but it ended ugly between him and Gmen.

Whose fault was that?

ny06
11-13-2012, 03:44 PM
Can someone please explain to me how a player can be elite one moment and a few bad games he's not?
A few poor games should not change the fact that Eli is elite in this league. You don't put the numbers up and multiple championship mvp's by being average.

sharick88
11-13-2012, 03:44 PM
Phil threw for 4000 yards before Bavaro was on the team. His top pass catcher had 48 catches that season.
And no insult but Eli doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to have played for Parcells back then. Takes a unique guy to deal with Bill.

Tony Romo dealt with Bill. LOL. Just giving you a hard time :)

dezzzR
11-13-2012, 03:44 PM
Should rename this thread the Eli cultists vs the Simms cultists.

Gimaniac
11-13-2012, 03:44 PM
Started that season 10-0.

Yup, and was the backup the next year. He was pissed.

Gimaniac
11-13-2012, 03:45 PM
Whose fault was that?

Ray Handley's

Harooni
11-13-2012, 03:45 PM
It works both ways. If Eli had that defense with the greatest defensive player of all time, that running/play action game, HOF coach in Bill P. and possibly the greatest coach of all time in Bill B., do you really think Eli wouldn't possibly equal or exceed what Phil did? Eli has shown he probably could have taken the hits QB's did then. Maybe Phil wouldn't have been so accurate in this receiver option route offense and maybe Eli would be more accurate in the receiver single route offense Phil played behind.

ill tell you eli wouldnt have gotten more than 15 starts with Parcells he would have benched him. Parcells was a tough cookie. You didnt get that long to prove yourself back then.

sharick88
11-13-2012, 03:45 PM
I'm changing my prediction.
35 pages in one day, 2 days max.

**** it. I see your 35 pages and raise it 15 for an even 50

Rudyy
11-13-2012, 03:46 PM
Can someone please explain to me how a player can be elite one moment and a few bad games he's not?
A few poor games should not change the fact that Eli is elite in this league. You don't put the numbers up and multiple championship mvp's by being average.+1. You either think he's elite or you don't. You can't become un-elite, that doesn't make any sense.

Your last sentence is debatable, but in terms of him being elite one week,and not being elite the next is stupid.

Rudyy
11-13-2012, 03:46 PM
**** it. I see your 35 pages and raise it 15 for an even 50LOL

Harooni
11-13-2012, 03:46 PM
Im waiting for Kerry collins to weigh in on the subject.

Morehead State
11-13-2012, 03:46 PM
It works both ways. If Eli had that defense with the greatest defensive player of all time, that running/play action game, HOF coach in Bill P. and possibly the greatest coach of all time in Bill B., do you really think Eli wouldn't possibly equal or exceed what Phil did? Eli has shown he probably could have taken the hits QB's did then. Maybe Phil wouldn't have been so accurate in this receiver option route offense and maybe Eli would be more accurate in the receiver single route offense Phil played behind.
Phil won a lot of games and had a great defense..no doubt.
But his passing stats were held way down by RE's system. He was an absolute pure passer. I saw an interview with Joe Montana just a few years ago and he went to a QB camp with Phil and he talked about how shocked he was to see how great Phil still threw the ball. that would have been past 50.

Phil could spin the ball like few QB's. And no one stood in the pocket and took hits to allow receivers to break open like Phil.

sharick88
11-13-2012, 03:48 PM
Im waiting for Kerry collins to weigh in on the subject.

I am also sure that Dave Brown and Danny Kanell both have a take as well.

Harooni
11-13-2012, 03:48 PM
Phil was a Qb that had many games start to finish solid. He didnt start off cold and get hot for the 4th qtr. imagine a QB that was steady all game long. imagine that. imagine a QB that could sustain drives during the first half and allow his Defense to get some rest.

TheEnigma
11-13-2012, 03:49 PM
Benny Friedman > Eli Manning

Morehead State
11-13-2012, 03:49 PM
Tony Romo dealt with Bill. LOL. Just giving you a hard time :)
And it didn't go well.
Bill would go up to Phil before practice and tell him that he was going to abuse him all day and that he needed to take it to set an example for the rest of the team.
Phil was a special guy.

sharick88
11-13-2012, 03:49 PM
Phil was a Qb that had many games start to finish solid. He didnt start off cold and get hot for the 4th qtr. imagine a QB that was steady all game long. imagine that

What were his stats in that Flipper Anderson walk off game? LOL

joemorrisforprez
11-13-2012, 03:50 PM
If you take Eli Manning and put him in the system that Phil Simms was in, Eli would have dominated that era. The system Phil Simms was in was painless and seamless. Eli would have thrived with that O line and run game. Heck, if Eli Manning were the QB back then, Mark Bavarro may have put up Gronkowski numbers. Our O line and run game was so great that when Hoss, a guy that ran a 4.28 40 took over, he rarely had to run.

I think Phil Simms would have had issues with this system under Gillbride. I am not saying that he would not have gotten it but it would have taken him longer than Eli. Heck, it took Phil awhile to get the system he was in down and that one was simple as it gets.

I am not spewing angst at Phil but in my opinion, Eli is a better QB.

Very good point about the running game and offensive line......."The Suburbanites" were great...... and Maurice Carthon might be the best blocking running back in NFL history.

And of course, Simms had Joe Morris......quite possibly the best running back in NFL History.

ny06
11-13-2012, 03:50 PM
Phil was a Qb that had many games start to finish solid. He didnt start off cold and get hot for the 4th qtr. imagine a QB that was steady all game long. imagine that. imagine a QB that could sustain drives during the first half and allow his Defense to get some rest.
How quickly we forget many horrid games by our own Phil Simms.

dillyyo1972
11-13-2012, 03:51 PM
ill tell you eli wouldnt have gotten more than 15 starts with Parcells he would have benched him. Parcells was a tough cookie. You didnt get that long to prove yourself back then.

Guess you didn't get one of my qualifying statements. Maybe Eli would never have struggled in such a simple offensive scheme while having an all time great defense to cover his ***. Keep in mind Phil had a career avg mid 50% completion percentage. Point is there is no way to tell and it could go either way.

dezzzR
11-13-2012, 03:52 PM
And it didn't go well.
Bill would go up to Phil before practice and tell him that he was going to abuse him all day and that he needed to take it to set an example for the rest of the team.
Phil was a special guy.Cowboys had a great 07 season until they met us in the playoffs. And you dont think Tom is hard or can be just as hard on players? Thats baloney.

Harooni
11-13-2012, 03:52 PM
How quickly we forget many horrid games by our own Phil Simms. ll qb's have bad games, but iv never seen a QB so up and down as eli. When phil was on he was steady the whole game. not horrid and then great at the end. im going through tums like no bodys business.

Eliscruzzz
11-13-2012, 03:53 PM
Jesus are you guys seriously going to argue who is the better Giants quarterback??? They both are great, but the fact remains Eli still has a lot left to do and will continue putting up numbers and who knows possibly win another SB and will go down as the Giants best quarterback like it or not. There is nothing wrong with Simms being second at all. The game was different when Phil played but in his prime years he always had an elite defense where Eli's has a diminishing defense. You can make these arguements all day but WHO CARES they both brought the lombardi's to NY and for that I am greatful.

sharick88
11-13-2012, 03:53 PM
I knew this thread was going to turn into Eli Manning vs Phil Simms.

Harooni
11-13-2012, 03:53 PM
Cowboys had a great 07 season until they met us in the playoffs. And you dont think Tom is hard or can be just as hard on players. Thats baloney. he can be but he also can be very stubborn will keep guys in over and over till they succeed.

dillyyo1972
11-13-2012, 03:54 PM
Phil won a lot of games and had a great defense..no doubt.
But his passing stats were held way down by RE's system. He was an absolute pure passer. I saw an interview with Joe Montana just a few years ago and he went to a QB camp with Phil and he talked about how shocked he was to see how great Phil still threw the ball. that would have been past 50.

Phil could spin the ball like few QB's. And no one stood in the pocket and took hits to allow receivers to break open like Phil.

I agree and stated as so on the first page. My point is no one knows what each would do in reverse roles: Eli in simple system and great D; Phil in complex system with good by erratic D. Arm strength and variables the like do not always correlate to winning i.e. Jeff george

Morehead State
11-13-2012, 03:56 PM
Cowboys had a great 07 season until they met us in the playoffs. And you dont think Tom is hard or can be just as hard on players? Thats baloney.
That was Wade Phillips. We never faced Parcells in the playoffs.

And Tom coddles Eli. He knows Eli is a tad "delicate".

Morehead State
11-13-2012, 03:57 PM
What were his stats in that Flipper Anderson walk off game? LOL
I am still traumatized by that game. The fact that you would bring it up makes you hateful and mean.

And that PI call on Mark Collins was bull****!

dillyyo1972
11-13-2012, 03:58 PM
Phil was a Qb that had many games start to finish solid. He didnt start off cold and get hot for the 4th qtr. imagine a QB that was steady all game long. imagine that. imagine a QB that could sustain drives during the first half and allow his Defense to get some rest.

Erratic is Eli's greatest flaw and it seems to have influenced the team itself over his tenure. That is my biggest gripe with him, but for all of that, he's brought us two SBs and mostly on his shoulders. Phil doesn't win his SB without that quality of defense and he surely wouldn't win 25 without that D and BIll B. running that atypical 2 man down scheme.

dezzzR
11-13-2012, 04:01 PM
That was Wade Phillips. We never faced Parcells in the playoffs.

And Tom coddles Eli. He knows Eli is a tad "delicate".Thats right. My mistake.
You have no idea Toms relationship with Eli is like. If Eli was "delicate" the Giants would never sniff the playoffs with him at qb.

Morehead State
11-13-2012, 04:04 PM
Erratic is Eli's greatest flaw and it seems to have influenced the team itself over his tenure. That is my biggest gripe with him, but for all of that, he's brought us two SBs and mostly on his shoulders. Phil doesn't win his SB without that quality of defense and he surely wouldn't win 25 without that D and BIll B. running that atypical 2 man down scheme.
Our defense held the highest scoring offense in NFL history to 14 points in SB 42. They knocked Brady on his *** 19 times. That SB had one of the greatest defensive performances in SB history. No offensive player carried that team.

Morehead State
11-13-2012, 04:04 PM
Thats right. My mistake.
You have no idea Toms relationship with Eli is like. If Eli was "delicate" the Giants would never sniff the playoffs with him at qb.
I'm sorry...."sensitive" ....is that better?

Harooni
11-13-2012, 04:09 PM
everyone knows Tom doesnt yell at Eli and Tom never ever calls Eli out and says he has to play better even after horrible games. Now that doesnt mean Eli isnt good but he does get treated differently.

Eliscruzzz
11-13-2012, 04:11 PM
I'm sorry...."sensitive" ....is that better?What has Eli done to earn the sensitive tag?? It's not like he didn't get the crap beat outta of him in the NFCCG.

Eli2Shockey4aTD
11-13-2012, 04:12 PM
What has Eli done to earn the sensitive tag?? It's not like he didn't get the crap beat outta of him in the NFCG.

This

dezzzR
11-13-2012, 04:12 PM
I'm sorry...."sensitive" ....is that better?No because I dont think he is sensitive. Why do you think that? You cant play in New York if youre delicate, sensitive, thin skinned.

dillyyo1972
11-13-2012, 04:12 PM
Our defense held the highest scoring offense in NFL history to 14 points in SB 42. They knocked Brady on his *** 19 times. That SB had one of the greatest defensive performances in SB history. No offensive player carried that team.

Unfortunately, you don't just get to skip all season and playoff games just to get to the SB. Point I made was Eli carried that team more often then not through that season and runs they went on in the playoff. That's what I meant by mostly on the QB's shoulders.

Morehead State
11-13-2012, 04:14 PM
No because I dont think he is sensitive. Why do you think that? You cant play in New York if youre delicate, sensitive, thin skinned.
I'm ****ing with you Desilu.

dezzzR
11-13-2012, 04:14 PM
I'm ****ing with you Desilu.Simms cultists!!!

dillyyo1972
11-13-2012, 04:15 PM
everyone knows Tom doesnt yell at Eli and Tom never ever calls Eli out and says he has to play better even after horrible games. Now that doesnt mean Eli isnt good but he does get treated differently.

Tom is not like Bill in that he doesn't call people out in public, but I think he is just as tough as Bill was. I've seen him chastise Eli almost as much as anyone else.

gumby74
11-13-2012, 04:15 PM
Unfortunately, you don't just get to skip all season and playoff games just to get to the SB. Point I made was Eli carried that team more often then not through that season and runs they went on in the playoff. That's what I meant by mostly on the QB's shoulders.

In 2007 Eli wasn't stellar by any means during the regular season.

joemorrisforprez
11-13-2012, 04:16 PM
What has Eli done to earn the sensitive tag?? It's not like he didn't get the crap beat outta of him in the NFCCG.

My guess is that Eli would get along fine with Parcells.

When it comes to personality, work ethic, intelligence, etc., Parcells would be thrilled to have Manning.

Simms couldn't even stay on the field his first few seasons.

And when 1/2 of the team wanted to rebel against "old" Coughlin, Eli was unwavering in his support.....so it's not like he's not used to some fire and brimstone.

Morehead State
11-13-2012, 04:16 PM
Welcome to pro sports, many players get coddled. Eli isn't the only one.
Doesn't bother me at all that he's coddled. Whatever makes him play better. My point is that Phil was thrown to the wolves. Then when he tore up his knee, they discarded him. He had to claw his way back.
Our coaches have been very careful with Eli.

dillyyo1972
11-13-2012, 04:17 PM
In 2007 Eli wasn't stellar by any means during the regular season.

The whole team wasn't, but they all meshed during the run and during that time Eli showed that he could make any throw, in any condition with any game on the line.

Morehead State
11-13-2012, 04:17 PM
Simms cultists!!!
I think I'm going to have T shirts made.
The difference between me and the Eli Cultists is that I admit it.

Ruttiger711
11-13-2012, 04:18 PM
Our defense held the highest scoring offense in NFL history to 14 points in SB 42. They knocked Brady on his *** 19 times. That SB had one of the greatest defensive performances in SB history. No offensive player carried that team.

Or defensive .. individual player that is.

TD catch and then THE catch. Tyree could have been mvp.

Morehead State
11-13-2012, 04:19 PM
The whole team wasn't, but they all meshed during the run and during that time Eli showed that he could make any throw, in any condition with any game on the line.
Eli didn't play well during the season. He had two of the worst games I've ever seen a QB have. The 4 pick game vs. Minn. and that Buffalo game where KG was afraid to even let him throw a pass later in the game.

His performance in the playoffs was solid in that he didn't turn the ball over. His yards, TD's were right in line with his career averages.

gumby74
11-13-2012, 04:20 PM
In 2007 Eli wasn't stellar by any means during the regular season.


The whole team wasn't, but they all meshed during the run and during that time Eli showed that he could make any throw, in any condition with any game on the line.

I you said Eli "carried" the team which is not accurate. In 2011, he certainly did the lions share of work. In 2007? Absolutely not.

" Point I made was Eli carried that team more often then not through that season and runs they went on in the playoff"

dillyyo1972
11-13-2012, 04:21 PM
Doesn't bother me at all that he's coddled. Whatever makes him play better. My point is that Phil was thrown to the wolves. Then when he tore up his knee, they discarded him. He had to claw his way back.
Our coaches have been very careful with Eli.

Don't recall Phil tearing up his knee, but maybe you meant the ankle in Buffalo. Anyways, the demise of Phil after that was due to Handley's ridiculous preference of Hoss over Phil. By that time the team was fragmenting and we entered into an era where greats like Rodney Hampton were just farts in the wind of NFL legacy.

bigblue58
11-13-2012, 04:23 PM
"No, he is not one of the elites," Simms said in quotes distributed by CBS. "Because when I hear the word elite, I'm thinking about guys that can make unbelievable plays on the field by themselves. There are very few quarterbacks in that category.

"So yes, Eli has been a tremendous team player. He has been MVP of the Super Bowl twice. I know that. But the way I look at it, the answer is no."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/simms-eli-nfl-elite-qbs-article-1.1201145#ixzz2C8Eaubto

Here we go again.....


What does it all mean anyway? Elite...not elite?? It's a subjective opinion made by people who know no more about sports than you or I!
Marino was elite...he bombed in his one and only SB
Montana was elite and was great at the comeback like Eli is.
Favre thru more INT's than any QB in NFL history and he's a first ballot HOFer
Peyton is considered elite, he's a first ballot HOFer won one SB with an MVP, but his performances and record in the playoffs is horrible!
Brees has one SB ring with an MVP and the same year everyone was using the 25 INT's Eli threw as the argument why he's not elite and not in the same class as Brees............, Brees in the same season thru 22 INT's!
It's the reason why I think it a stupid pointless debate. Nobody can look at the examples I gave and show any kind of definitive criteria for what makes a QB elite or not!
Eli gave us those 2 SB rings....he earned every victory from the playoffs to the SB with his great performance and thats all that matters to me.
Is Eli elite? who cares.....those Lombardi trophies belong to the franchise and the fans and they can't be taken away.

Morehead State
11-13-2012, 04:23 PM
Don't recall Phil tearing up his knee, but maybe you meant the ankle in Buffalo. Anyways, the demise of Phil after that was due to Handley's ridiculous preference of Hoss over Phil. By that time the team was fragmenting and we entered into an era where greats like Rodney Hampton were just farts in the wind of NFL legacy.
No. Phil tore his knee up in a pre season game in (think it was) 1981. I also think it was against the Jets. He was laying in the endzone in pain while the crowd cheered.
Its incredible what Phil had to overcome to do what he did later in his career.

dillyyo1972
11-13-2012, 04:24 PM
Eli didn't play well during the season. He had two of the worst games I've ever seen a QB have. The 4 pick game vs. Minn. and that Buffalo game where KG was afraid to even let him throw a pass later in the game.

His performance in the playoffs was solid in that he didn't turn the ball over. His yards, TD's were right in line with his career averages.

You are gauging Eli on stats and that's not the kind of great player he is. His greatness comes in his clutch play when it's mostly needed. He made throws in an environment like GB that were sick. You also seem to disregard some of the performances the D had that season.

dillyyo1972
11-13-2012, 04:29 PM
No. Phil tore his knee up in a pre season game in (think it was) 1981. I also think it was against the Jets. He was laying in the endzone in pain while the crowd cheered.
Its incredible what Phil had to overcome to do what he did later in his career.

Ahh yes, I forgot about that injury. I think the culmination of his injuries in the early going was a definite hurdle, but i'm convinced they don't do what they did in the 80's without that D. Even an avg D and the Giants don't have rings. I don't really feel that way with Eli's teams because I think his D's have played avg even though I think they could have been better.

gumby74
11-13-2012, 04:35 PM
You are gauging Eli on stats and that's not the kind of great player he is. His greatness comes in his clutch play when it's mostly needed. He made throws in an environment like GB that were sick. You also seem to disregard some of the performances the D had that season.

This is a problem that a lot of people have actually. Instead of assessing a player's play based on EVERYTHING (reg season, post season, etc), people like to take a handful of moments here and there. Using the same rationale that a lot of people here used to defend Eli, I can make the case that Sanchez is a great QB also.

dillyyo1972
11-13-2012, 04:35 PM
I you said Eli "carried" the team which is not accurate. In 2011, he certainly did the lions share of work. In 2007? Absolutely not.

" Point I made was Eli carried that team more often then not through that season and runs they went on in the playoff"

Technically I also said more often than not. I have not gone back and looked at any stats, but I remember woeful games by all sides of the ball. I also remember Eli playing big in many important games during that season. Maybe I'm wrong, but I still stand by the position that not many Qb's could have done what he did during those games without being elite QBs in NFL history.

dillyyo1972
11-13-2012, 04:39 PM
This is a problem that a lot of people have actually. Instead of assessing a player's play based on EVERYTHING (reg season, post season, etc), people like to take a handful of moments here and there. Using the same rationale that a lot of people here used to defend Eli, I can make the case that Sanchez is a great QB also.

Not really because Sanchez has not brought home the golden egg or any egg really. He has not directly participated in all time great NFL plays to win SBs. Like I said 16+ pages ago, Eli is great but highly erratic. The fact that he could be great and so erratic is impressive in itself.

gumby74
11-13-2012, 04:55 PM
Not really because Sanchez has not brought home the golden egg or any egg really. He has not directly participated in all time great NFL plays to win SBs. Like I said 16+ pages ago, Eli is great but highly erratic. The fact that he could be great and so erratic is impressive in itself.

Haha. So true.

Roosevelt
11-13-2012, 05:08 PM
Ah, a thread right up my ally! Too bad I'm late for the party though and missed so much fun.

Forgive me if this has been posted already but don't you think Phil simply meant that Eli is not very athletic and can't make things happen with his feet?

Roosevelt
11-13-2012, 05:09 PM
Ah Simms himself is/was not elite either.......saw his career stats, nothing special.

His jersey was retired dude. What does that tell you?

Roosevelt
11-13-2012, 05:12 PM
I loved Phil and always thought he was an underrated QB, but he is talking nonsense. Eli might be the most wildly inconsistent elite QB in football history, but the kid has way more often come through in the clutch than not. Not to mention the magnitude of the games that he has done it in. Can't say I would take Eli over someone like Rodgers or Drew because the roller coaster seasons cut my life expectancy, but I have developed a feeling like Eli can get us out of any reasonable hole, no matter what the game situation is.

I thought Eli was "elite" early this year, but after the way he's been playing lately how can you call him that. He's way too erratic.

Harooni
11-13-2012, 05:13 PM
if Warner and Simms feel the same, who are we to judge. some of you work in a cubicle at enterprise car rental or subway for heaven sakes. These guys know what it isall about the position in and out and know what a HOF elite player is.

GameTime
11-13-2012, 05:16 PM
Joe Namath was great. Maybe the purest passer of all time.
Stats are not the sole standard in the NFL. If they were Drew Bledsoe and Vinny Testeverde would be shoe ins for the Hall.
yeah I know the "legend" of Joe Nameth. But his stats suck......more losses than wins etc...
but he is a legend and thats the only reason he is in....

Die-Hard
11-13-2012, 05:17 PM
This thread will have 10 pages minimum close of business today.

The over/under is 24 pages by Noon on Wednesday

You want in?

For the record, I agree with Simms. Elite QB's have an occasional bad game. Eli likes to string a bunch of them together pretty much every year. Too inconsistent to be considered elite IMO.

TheEnigma
11-13-2012, 05:17 PM
some of you work in a cubicle at enterprise car rental or subway for heaven sakes

Yeah but I'm an elite sandwich artist. When the pressure is on, I get that bread toasted to the perfect temperature and when someone asks me for extra onions, I put them puppies in the right spot between the lettuce and week old meats.

DVision
11-13-2012, 05:21 PM
His jersey was retired dude. What does that tell you?

Tells me he was the QB of some VERY talented teams! Having Joe Morris running for 100+ a game, a HOF worthy tight end, and a stifling defense helps any QB!

NYGabriel
11-13-2012, 05:24 PM
Simms is right. I called it earlier in the season. Eli is not an elite QB. I really can't get over how badly he's played for the last 4 games. Top QB's don't slump like this. His two SB MVP's show that he's no chump but this team with a Brady, Brees, P Manning or Rodgers behind centre wouldn't be as wildly inconsistent.

Harooni
11-13-2012, 05:27 PM
Yeah but I'm an elite sandwich artist. When the pressure is on, I get that bread toasted to the perfect temperature and when someone asks me for extra onions, I put them puppies in the right spot between the lettuce and week old meats. lol an honest buck. but still why are so many questioning these guys. if they are saying it their must be a reason, and its not jealousy they arent in their 20,s

Eliscruzzz
11-13-2012, 05:31 PM
Who cares if Simms is right..really. The guy is our quarterback now and he does his best to win games. That is all you can ask for. Why does he have to put up 40 td and 3 int.s a season to get some respect?? Not only did Simms say he wasn't elite and that's fine but he also said he is average. Average quarterbacks don't make all the high pressure comebacks and wins two SB. Eli wins games and plays his best once he gets to the playoffs I'll take that over most quarterbacks. Eli is a 20-30 td...10-15 int. quarterback that throws for a ton of yards and plays well in the playoffs. We can do much worse.

Harooni
11-13-2012, 05:32 PM
Tom is not like Bill in that he doesn't call people out in public, but I think he is just as tough as Bill was. I've seen him chastise Eli almost as much as anyone else.

http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/xx201/vidstar/DCC_Parcells-Haley-punch.gif

RoanokeFan
11-13-2012, 05:41 PM
The over/under is 24 pages by Noon on Wednesday

You want in?

For the record, I agree with Simms. Elite QB's have an occasional bad game. Eli likes to string a bunch of them together pretty much every year. Too inconsistent to be considered elite IMO.

The simple truth, whether we're talking about Eli or anyone else, is that the jury is out until the whole body of work can be examined and compared to whoever else played in relatively the same time span.

We needed two weeks of filler and this was a great start.

TopleyBird
11-13-2012, 05:51 PM
Haven't read the thread, too long.

But here is a bold prediction:

Eli will toss three touchdowns in our next game and will take over Simms' record.

/ELIte

RoanokeFan
11-13-2012, 05:54 PM
Haven't read the thread, too long.

But here is a bold prediction:

Eli will toss three touchdowns in our next game and will take over Simms' record.

/ELIte

If that makes him elite, then by inference, Simms must be elite as he's already there.

BeatYale
11-13-2012, 06:07 PM
When people are constantly having to defend a player for lack of elite production....is he really elite? Rodgers, Brady, Brees, (Peyton) Manning don't need their fanatics to dance around their stats and pick and choose certain things that make them considered to be elite. With those guys it's a lot more clear cut than it is with Eli. It's business as usual to see a 100+ efficiency rating at the end of the season from them. For Eli it would be more of a shocker because he's never done it before. He makes too many mistakes in regards to turnovers and accuracy compared to them. His play during our Super Bowl runs is pretty much how these guys play every week for the most part.

He has the capability, but lacks consistency.

Eliscruzzz
11-13-2012, 06:08 PM
:popcorn:

sharick88
11-13-2012, 06:16 PM
The over/under is 24 pages by Noon on Wednesday

You want in?

For the record, I agree with Simms. Elite QB's have an occasional bad game. Eli likes to string a bunch of them together pretty much every year. Too inconsistent to be considered elite IMO.

I already raised the ante to 50 by COB tomorrow. LOL

RoanokeFan
11-13-2012, 06:19 PM
:popcorn:

I strongly disagree with this

Manning
11-13-2012, 06:34 PM
I don't get this. Phil always defended Eli even prior to the first Super Bowl. This offseason he said Eli was a first ballot HALL OF FAMER. There's something wrong with Eli these past few game. I don't understand how his play could regress so badly for a string of games this long. He is right, the elite QBs never have this many bad games in a row. I don't think Eli has had this many bad games in a row since the Vikings, Redskins, Bills, Bears string of games in 2007.

Is Eli injured? Maybe, but we will never know. To me, Eli isn't passing the eyes test which tells me something isn't right.

Morehead State
11-13-2012, 06:35 PM
I strongly disagree with this
Are you kidding?
That's the smartest thing he's ever said!

Overdrive92
11-13-2012, 06:36 PM
I'm glad Simms said this. Good move. Light a fire under Eli's ***.

He seems to do best when people question or doubt his elite status. Remember when the entire world laughed at his "I'm in Brady's class" comment? That lit a fire under him.

Morehead State
11-13-2012, 06:41 PM
I'm glad Simms said this. Good move. Light a fire under Eli's ***.

He seems to do best when people question or doubt his elite status. Remember when the entire world laughed at his "I'm in Brady's class" comment? That lit a fire under him.
So you're saying that he hasn't been trying enough.

Rudyy
11-13-2012, 06:43 PM
Can't we all just get along?

bigjeep
11-13-2012, 06:52 PM
Phil Simms is one of my personal favorite former players. Someone responded that he also wasn't elite, and I agree with that. But Phil Simms was something to watch in that day and he played when beating up the QB was encouraged.

I don't think the fact that it's Phil Simms saying it makes it any worse or less/more valid than any other talking head.

I'm going with the "Bald Eagle"

Toadofsteel
11-13-2012, 07:08 PM
Phil Simms is one of my personal favorite former players. Someone responded that he also wasn't elite, and I agree with that. But Phil Simms was something to watch in that day and he played when beating up the QB was encouraged.

I don't think the fact that it's Phil Simms saying it makes it any worse or less/more valid than any other talking head.

I'm the one who said that. It just seems like some the super Simms homers (like Morehead, but in this case i'm not talking about Morehead because he's not like this) want to rub it in the face of all the Eli homers because secretly they don't want Eli to succeed...

SLUNK(three)AM
11-13-2012, 07:24 PM
I don't think there's much to debate about. Eli's in a slump. It happens to the best of players. If people thought Eli became a lesser QB because of this hiccup he's having, then I'd respectfully disagree. Eli's still the man - and it would be dangerous for anybody in the NFL to underestimate him. He possesses all the tools he needs to win, and he has consistently shown us that over his career. Maybe he is a little more prone to bouts of being off his game than other players - but that's just part of the game.

Lets take our losses like men, enjoy the victories as they come, and appreciate one of the most interesting eras of Giants football.

Cloud57
11-13-2012, 07:26 PM
I'm glad Simms said this. Good move. Light a fire under Eli's ***.

He seems to do best when people question or doubt his elite status. Remember when the entire world laughed at his "I'm in Brady's class" comment? That lit a fire under him. couldn't come at a better time

Overdrive92
11-13-2012, 07:43 PM
So you're saying that he hasn't been trying enough.

I'm saying he likes proving his doubters wrong. And clearly, Simms is doubting him by saying he's not an elite. This will hopefully get him to play better, as it has done in the past.

Martyr
11-13-2012, 07:46 PM
**** Phil Simms, the Giants won a super bowl with a backup Qb when he got hurt

P_Simms_#11
11-13-2012, 07:54 PM
**** Phil Simms, the Giants won a super bowl with a backup Qb when he got hurt

That should add at least 10 more pages.

DVision
11-13-2012, 07:56 PM
When people are constantly having to defend a player for lack of elite production....is he really elite? Rodgers, Brady, Brees, (Peyton) Manning don't need their fanatics to dance around their stats and pick and choose certain things that make them considered to be elite. With those guys it's a lot more clear cut than it is with Eli. It's business as usual to see a 100+ efficiency rating at the end of the season from them. For Eli it would be more of a shocker because he's never done it before. He makes too many mistakes in regards to turnovers and accuracy compared to them. His play during our Super Bowl runs is pretty much how these guys play every week for the most part.

He has the capability, but lacks consistency.

I also rarely see those guys having to chastise their receivers for not being on the right page and running wrong routes. QB play can not solely be judged by stats because personnel and system have a lot to do with it. A good example is Kurt Warner who was amazing running that West Coast offense and sucked in Gilbrides system!

Die-Hard
11-13-2012, 08:03 PM
The simple truth, whether we're talking about Eli or anyone else, is that the jury is out until the whole body of work can be examined and compared to whoever else played in relatively the same time span.

We needed two weeks of filler and this was a great start.

Brady, Rodgers, Peyton, and Brees are still playing, and they're considered elite QB's by most people today. The whole body of work isn't complete, but it's quite obvious that they are, in fact, elite QB's. I dont disagree with you, RF, but I'm pointing out a hole in your logic.

DVision
11-13-2012, 08:09 PM
Brady, Rodgers, Peyton, and Brees are still playing, and they're considered elite QB's by most people today. The whole body of work isn't complete, but it's quite obvious that they are, in fact, elite QB's. I dont disagree with you, RF, but I'm pointing out a hole in your logic.

In support of RF's logic, Phillip Rivers WAS on that elite list for a period of time also. Now you don't hear his name anymore.

nycisgreat
11-13-2012, 08:10 PM
Phil Simms was a great Giants quarterback but why, why say this??? I know he gets paid for his opinion but does this mean Romo is an elite qb cause he makes unbelievable plays?? Eli has made unbelievable plays too. 2 That come to mind is sb 42 and sb 46. Man what does this guy have to do to get some respect??

He mad because he will never get an opportunity to make to the hall of fame. lol.

bigjeep
11-13-2012, 08:11 PM
He mad because he will never get an opportunity to make to the hall of fame. lol.

If he buys a ticket!

Roosevelt
11-13-2012, 08:13 PM
Tells me he was the QB of some VERY talented teams! Having Joe Morris running for 100+ a game, a HOF worthy tight end, and a stifling defense helps any QB!

So had do you explain The Captain's jersey not be retired who BTW is a HOF'er?

Roosevelt
11-13-2012, 08:14 PM
if Warner and Simms feel the same, who are we to judge. some of you work in a cubicle at enterprise car rental or subway for heaven sakes. These guys know what it isall about the position in and out and know what a HOF elite player is.

You cannot argue with logic.

Roosevelt
11-13-2012, 08:16 PM
If he buys a ticket!


You certainly don't act your age do you?

Roosevelt
11-13-2012, 08:22 PM
**** Phil Simms, the Giants won a super bowl with a backup Qb when he got hurt

News alert: Hoss was a starter in this league for a long time.

Besides, Eli played like a back-up most of 2007, so what does that prove?

The sensitivity surrounding Eli is comical. Saying he's not elite doesn't in any way mean he's saying he's trash.

Phil is a borderline HOF'er but probably wont get in. There's nothing shameful in that.

Roosevelt
11-13-2012, 08:23 PM
I don't think there's much to debate about. Eli's in a slump. It happens to the best of players. If people thought Eli became a lesser QB because of this hiccup he's having, then I'd respectfully disagree. Eli's still the man - and it would be dangerous for anybody in the NFL to underestimate him. He possesses all the tools he needs to win, and he has consistently shown us that over his career. Maybe he is a little more prone to bouts of being off his game than other players - but that's just part of the game.

Lets take our losses like men, enjoy the victories as they come, and appreciate one of the most interesting eras of Giants football.

Well said.

BigBlueAllDay
11-13-2012, 08:26 PM
lol Phil Simms probably also got to watch some of the Bengals game too and got upset like the rest of us. He was just praising Eli during the Steelers game last week.

TheEnigma
11-13-2012, 08:28 PM
Oh, this thread...

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/dance-party/this_is_the_funniest.gif

Roosevelt
11-13-2012, 08:32 PM
This is true, but Phil seems to be carrying a chip on his shoulders about various Giants players. He's made derisive comments about some over the years, but that's always been Phil. It shows on Inside The NFL with him and Chris and it shows the way he announces games. Somewhat Joe Theisman like, if you ask me.g

Are you talking about guys busting each other's stones? Please. Phil speaks positively about the majority of NFL players. At least when I hear him.

Roosevelt
11-13-2012, 08:35 PM
Simms does not care for the giants. Eli included. you hear it in his voice when he calls the games. the name Simms and Elite never show up in the same sentence . Elite is not always the numbers. Eli has a presence as an elite QB and many times does play like and elite QB. Simms could only wish to have that! F Simms!

This should go down as post of the week. Do we have that?

Roosevelt
11-13-2012, 08:41 PM
If you take Eli Manning and put him in the system that Phil Simms was in, Eli would have dominated that era. The system Phil Simms was in was painless and seamless. Eli would have thrived with that O line and run game. Heck, if Eli Manning were the QB back then, Mark Bavarro may have put up Gronkowski numbers. Our O line and run game was so great that when Hoss, a guy that ran a 4.28 40 took over, he rarely had to run.

I think Phil Simms would have had issues with this system under Gillbride. I am not saying that he would not have gotten it but it would have taken him longer than Eli. Heck, it took Phil awhile to get the system he was in down and that one was simple as it gets.

I am not spewing angst at Phil but in my opinion, Eli is a better QB.


Way too much stuff I disagree with in this thread to respond at length.

Roosevelt
11-13-2012, 08:43 PM
How quickly we forget many horrid games by our own Phil Simms.

Of course we forget. We're old and we killed off a few brain cells during the years. But what does that have to do with his comments?

Roosevelt
11-13-2012, 08:43 PM
I knew this thread was going to turn into Eli Manning vs Phil Simms.

Which is just pointless.

Roosevelt
11-13-2012, 08:47 PM
Unfortunately, you don't just get to skip all season and playoff games just to get to the SB. Point I made was Eli carried that team more often then not through that season and runs they went on in the playoff. That's what I meant by mostly on the QB's shoulders.

Eli was the one getting carried throughout the 2007 season. And then down the stretch he started playing smart ball and we won. His SB performance was pretty shaky with a fantastic finish.

Roosevelt
11-13-2012, 08:51 PM
Haven't read the thread, too long.

But here is a bold prediction:

Eli will toss three touchdowns in our next game and will take over Simms' record.

/ELIte

And if he doesn't?

joemorrisforprez
11-13-2012, 08:52 PM
Eli was the one getting carried throughout the 2007 season. And then down the stretch he started playing smart ball and we won. His SB performance was pretty shaky with a fantastic finish.

If Eli's performance was shaky.....there would have been no chance of a fantastic finish.

The Patriots would have ***-pounded the Giants like they did with pretty much every other team they played that year.

Roosevelt
11-13-2012, 08:53 PM
Are you kidding?
That's the smartest thing he's ever said!

You got that right.

Giantsin04
11-13-2012, 08:55 PM
This is great. Phil's comments have angered some, and made others, somewhat happy it seems.

Since the day Eli inked his first NFL contract, he has been more successful, or as successful, as any other player in the entire league. Bar none! -this should make Giant fans happy.

Roosevelt
11-13-2012, 08:56 PM
If Eli's performance was shaky.....there would have been no chance of a fantastic finish.

The Patriots would have ***-pounded the Giants like they did with pretty much every other team they played that year.

We had that nice first drive and then did nothing until the 4th. But have you ever watched the SB 42 DVD with Strahan's voice over? Let's just say Michael didn't have a lot of confidence in his QB back then.

Toadofsteel
11-13-2012, 08:59 PM
The sensitivity surrounding Eli is comical. Saying he's not elite doesn't in any way mean he's saying he's trash.

The thing is, that's what Phil Simms is saying. Not that Eli played like trash the past couple of weeks, but that he was, as a whole, average at best. If you want to strip him of the "elite" title based on the past 4 performances, I won't hold that against you. But Phil is saying that the past 4 weeks is the "true" Eli, and that he outperformed immensely during the two SB runs and in 2008...

joemorrisforprez
11-13-2012, 09:00 PM
We had that nice first drive and then did nothing until the 4th. But have you ever watched the SB 42 DVD with Strahan's voice over? Let's just say Michael didn't have a lot of confidence in his QB back then.

Eli was definitely cautious, but not shaky. He helped keep the team in the game until the 4th, and then the rest is history.

At the time, the Patriots we not only undefeated, but they were 80-2 when entering the 4th quarter with a lead.



Call them the anti-comeback kids. If the Patriots have the lead heading into the fourth quarter, it's almost a lock that the opponent is going to lose. Since 2001, the Patriots are an astonishing 80-2 in games in which they've led entering the final frame, according to the Elias Sports Bureau. That's a .976 winning percentage. The next-best record belongs to the Steelers, who are 65-5-1 (.915).

If New England has the lead tomorrow entering the fourth quarter of Super Bowl XLII against the Giants and history follows suit, then history in the form of a 19-0 season is all but a certainty and the Lombardi Trophy will be paraded down Boylston Street for the fourth time in seven seasons.

http://www.boston.com/sports/articles/2008/02/02/just_call_it_fourth_and_won/?camp=pm



They were 80-3 by the end of the night.

brad
11-13-2012, 09:11 PM
Personally I don't see what the big deal is... by his own statement Simms is also excluding himself from the "elite" category. Simms was a great QB, as is Eli. However Elite means that the QB can take over a game all by himself.. and there is very few that could be considered in that league. Those QB's will score points week in and week out, they make the players around them better. If your having a few bad games, and those defending the QB are pointing to the O-line, receivers and running backs... there is a good chance that the QB isn't in the elite category.

That isn't a bad thing, in my opinion. Few elite QBs win Super Bowls all by themselves. I will take having a very good/great QB like Simms or Eli and a team around him any day over Dan Marino and no rings.

embeshAtYa
11-13-2012, 09:13 PM
Ahh. Eli can be elite. CAN be. Lot depends on the play of the team around him. He had and has plenty of talent around him to win. But once he is not feeling it, It definately seems like there isnt any hope for even a first down. How many times is there a wide open play right in front of him and he doesnt even see it. Or when he has the whole field to run and throws into double coverage. Im not talking about juking and cuting his way to the endzone. Im talking about making a quick decision, tuckn the ball and running 10 yards. Make something happen bro!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The throw to Tyree and the throw to Manningham? I guess so.

DVision
11-13-2012, 09:14 PM
So had do you explain The Captain's jersey not be retired who BTW is a HOF'er?

I don't get what your trying to say, but I said "HOF worthy" and I was speaking of Mark Bavaro who was the original "Gronk"! Who by the way is also in the Giants Ring of Honor!

Cool Papa B.
11-13-2012, 09:16 PM
Oh, this thread...

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/dance-party/this_is_the_funniest.gif

LOL LOL LOL.....

I can't stop laughing.....

Martyr
11-13-2012, 09:23 PM
That should add at least 10 more pages.

lol that killed me

Roosevelt
11-13-2012, 09:28 PM
The thing is, that's what Phil Simms is saying. Not that Eli played like trash the past couple of weeks, but that he was, as a whole, average at best. If you want to strip him of the "elite" title based on the past 4 performances, I won't hold that against you. But Phil is saying that the past 4 weeks is the "true" Eli, and that he outperformed immensely during the two SB runs and in 2008...

Is that so? I didn't read that.

But let me ask you this. Did any of us expect this type of play by Eli again? I know I didn't.

Eliscruzzz
11-13-2012, 09:29 PM
You got that right. Got what right?? That your still a moron trying to prove something...lol your agreeing with someone that said the 80's still rules his house. What's that say about you bud???:cool:

Eliscruzzz
11-13-2012, 09:31 PM
Anyway....

You guys care way to much about this elite crap. All I know is I will take Eli over anybody including Simms in his prime.....lol.

Roosevelt
11-13-2012, 09:31 PM
Eli was definitely cautious, but not shaky. He helped keep the team in the game until the 4th, and then the rest is history.

At the time, the Patriots we not only undefeated, but they were 80-2 when entering the 4th quarter with a lead.



They were 80-3 by the end of the night.

I would say he had some shaky moments. The Samuels pass being one of them. I'm not trying to knock Eli because he was young and came up so big against a great team. Just trying to keep it real.

sharick88
11-13-2012, 09:31 PM
Got what right?? That your still a moron trying to prove something...lol your agreeing with someone that said the 80's still rules his house. What's that say about you bud???:cool:

Why don't you and Roosevelt go get a room. LOL, JK

Rudyy
11-13-2012, 09:32 PM
Is that so? I didn't read that.

But let me ask you this. Did any of us expect this type of play by Eli again? I know I didn't.I didn't expect this type of play by anyone on our team, Eli included.

Roosevelt
11-13-2012, 09:32 PM
Anyway....

You guys care way to much about this elite crap. All I know is I will take Eli over anybody including Simms in his prime.....lol.

That means so much. Thanks.

joemorrisforprez
11-13-2012, 09:33 PM
I realize the term "elite QB" has just been abused to death.

I've seen Eli take over games .... the Tampa Bay game is a good example.

We've also seen games like Cincy, where Eli basically gift-wrapped a loss.

Given the offense Gilbride has installed, and given the defense Fewell employs, Eli has become completely indispensable.

Defensively, this is a bend and and hope for a turnover defense....they give up huge chunks of yardage, and can't get off the field on 3rd down. If the offense doesn't score at least 24 points, the Giants are screwed, because the defense is soft, as TC put it.

So people can argue if Eli is elite or not (I think 2 SB MVPs settles that debate, but that's just me)......but given the team he's got, it's pretty much mandatory that he plays well, otherwise it's likely going to be a loss.

No average QB could make the playoffs with today's Giants.

Eliscruzzz
11-13-2012, 09:34 PM
Why don't you and Roosevelt go get a room. LOL, JKI don't do buttholes lol.

Eliscruzzz
11-13-2012, 09:35 PM
That means so much. Thanks.just trying to piss you and your boyfriend off.

Roosevelt
11-13-2012, 09:37 PM
Got what right?? That your still a moron trying to prove something...lol your agreeing with someone that said the 80's still rules his house. What's that say about you bud???:cool:

No, seriously. I've been noticing your posts, and they're not impressive. How about the one where you referenced the loss of the Niners to the Rams to make your point when the Niners didn't lose? There's plenty more I could have ripped you for but you're too easy a target and I don't have the time.