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BallinNY
12-20-2011, 07:08 PM
Edit: there is a lot to read, but i think it is worth it

First off, I am a young college athlete and NOT a coach. I have no coaching experience, but I do have knowledge of the intricacies and techniques involved. I love the Giants, when the giants lose it ruins my week, when they win great all week, and when they win a super bowl (especially in the fashion of super bowl 42) I am eternally grateful.

I realize all (or most) of us fans are aggravated and upset, but you must realize that the wins are only great with losses to contrast. That win versus the Patriots will give me happiness for the next 40 years and then some.

This season was doomed at the start, we were ravaged by injuries, losses in FA (our leading receiver, our starting TE, our starting DT) , and were breaking in another new DC. Even when we had Spags, our defense took awhile to adapt to the schemes. To expect playoffs from that is asking for too much. Heck we've been starting free agent and late draft picks at linebacker from the start! We have a lot to be happy about.

Our offseason:
FA Losses: Steve Smith, Kevin Boss, Barry Coffield

INJ Losses: Terrell Thomas, Jonathan Goff, Clint Sintim, Marvin Austin, Bruce Johnson.

That's 5 starters (two pro bowlers), 2 Fringe starters, and one accomplished backup

INJ during the season:

Domenik Hixon, Justin Tryon, Michael Coe, Michael Clayton, Will Beatty, Stacy Andrews, Brian Witherspoon (All on IR)

.Prince Amukamara, David Baas, Ramses Barden, Travis Beckum, Ahmad Bradshaw, James Brewer, Mark Herzlich, Brandon Jacobs, Mario Manningham, Spencer Paysinger, Henry Hynoski, Aaron Ross, Devin Thomas, Justin Tuck, Osi Umenyiora (All missing multiple games)

Hakeem Nicks, Kenny Phillips (Both Banged up constantly and missing a game each)

When you look through our roster, it is hard to find players that weren't injured during this season. Without a doubt, we were overwhelmed by these injuries which happened to everyone and especially to our best players.

If I were the Giant Front Office, I would consider this into my equation, but there is no way I don't fire Fewell. His schemes are terrible, especially for a team that lacks linebackers and lost many starters. Secondly, our medical staff and trainers must be one of the worst in the league with the amount of injuries we have every year.

Regarding Coaches, there are a number of head coaches that have been(or will be) fired this year that would make excellent coordinators. Norv Turner, Steve Spagnuolo, Todd Haley and Jack Del Rio come to mind. Norv Turner's offensive system would be incredible for us, reverting back to a run team with placation base pass plays. Spags is ideal for us, not only because he has been a coordinator before for us or that he is familiar with the personnel we have, but because he runs man press, cover 1 shells, A gap pressures, and runs a variety of different blitz packages. We have the firepower to blitz and play man to man press with larger corners. He is also a player's coach, he is very emotional and inspires his players with his competitive drive. Haley and Del Rio both had success as coordinators, but I wouldn't want them as much because of their schemes not fitting our personnel as well.

Eli Manning has graced us with a season deserving of an MVP under normal circumstances. He has been our offense, made up for the faults of the entire team, and entered the realm of the elite without a doubt. He is a bright spot on the team, and no longer a liability in the pocket. He moves very well in the pocket and has developed such a presence that rivals his brother's. He may not have the strongest arm, or any mobility, but he is extremely accurate and good at putting his teammates in a position to make a play by reading the defense. We have something now that not many other franchises have, this development is worth the losses and interceptions.

Victor Cruz replaced Steve Smith's production and then some. He is a threat in the open field, he runs creative routes and gets a lot of separation, he makes spectacular catches, and gave us miracles that other teams can only envy. We lost a pro bowl receiver, and gained another that is a threat to score on every play instead of just a possession receiver. Great body control, great hands, just needs more experience and to stop running before he catches. Eli now has two money receivers in Nicks and Cruz.

Jason Pierre-Paul became the monster that Jerry Reese thought he'd be. Despite what (site that ranks players due to stats) ranks him as, he is easily a top 10 DE. He hasn't even developed pass rush moves for god's sake! His raw talent has been put on spotlight, and with the right coaching (our DL coach, Osi, and Tuck) and playing, he should be a premiere DE in the league. Not many teams have this either, pass rushers don't come as often as we have had, and for that we should be thankful.

Jacquian Williams has a bright future. Despite some rookie mistakes and bad coordinating, Williams has been a good overall linebacker versus the run and the pass. This guy is going to start for us, and his speed, blitzing ability, and fluidity will be very useful once he gains some coaching. He is definitely physically gifted and has a high motor just like JPP, he just needs to be put in a position to utilize them in the right way.

Mitch Petrus was a steal. Many people don't watch the offensive line, but this guy has done a number on DL's in the run game. He was a walk-on at Arkansas (also a wrestler) and played TE, FB, G, and C. He isn't as inept at pass protection, but there is no reason to bet against this guy with the effort he puts forth. Guard of the future.

Jake Ballard impressed us all. He is basically an extra offensive lineman at 6-6 280ish, He is very slow, but he is good at route running due to his suddenness and hands (which have become inconsistent). Production-wise, he is better than Boss, but it is important to know that Boss did open up things for our receivers outside due to his speed which occupied the safeties.

Michael Boley is one of the best linebackers in the NFC. He neutralizes opponents TE's and RB's, he and Williams are similar and both are the reason why we didn't get killed by TE's and RB's all year. Previously quick RB's and TE's were our problem, but no more. Boley has always been a good coverage LB, but since joining us he has developed much more as a passrusher, and is above average versus the run.

Ramses Barden showed us another flash of his incredible potential. He isn't quick off the line, he doesn't run the best routes, but he sure as hell can use his body and long arms to snag balls away from DB's. I know it's early, but I think we've got another very good receiver here.

Mark Herzlich is a very good run defender and special teamer. He isn't washed up by any means, but he isn't 100% percent yet. The longer separated from cancer he is, the better he will be. To expect him or Greg Jones to pop up unexpectedly and fill the role of MLB especially with this offseason is ridiculous. But both have a fire that the Giants like, and whether they start or are special teamers, they will have an impact.

Da'Rell Scott is lightning in a bottle. How we don't play this kid more is beyond me, he is the only back we have that can take it all the way any given play. He has the speed, has some shake, but he needs to be more fluid in his cuts and more sudden. He hasn't displayed elusiveness despite the preseason, but we know its there at least.

Prince Amukamara is having growing pains and everyone shouldn't be quick to judge. When a player has an injury and misses camp there is a much bigger learning curve, couple this with the shortened offseason and not receiving the playbook until the lockout ended, there is no reason to hate on him. Looking at him out there you can tell that he is struggling to know his assignments. When you are struggling to know your assignments and have to remember and act on them in the seconds before a play. You aren't sure on your job, how do you do that with 100% effort? Apart from the results of his play recently, he played well man to man in his first two games. He has the size, speed, and fluidity to play corner, he just needs to adapt to the speed of the game.

Osi Umenyiora isn't worth starting anymore. He only goes for the QB by overshooting the LT. He is capable of using other passrush moves, but the sack fumble is the easiest way to get it, and he is all about himself now. I do not want him on this team based solely on that and his attitude in the offseason. He may be utilized better with other teams, but for now he is done in NY. Get rid of him, you might get a late 2nd, or 3rd, but its worth it now.

Brandon Jacobs has become a straight ahead runner only. He has hardly any change of direction despite weight loss, and now he can only use his speed and power to get yardage. Whatever happened that set him off in this stretch of productivity beats me, but I am still tired of the plays he had where he stopped at the line and did nothing. They became lost plays for Eli.

With this young talent, and Jerry Reese as our GM, we can be sure we will have a team with a bright future.

Right now, if we lose these next two games, we could wind up with a pick anywhere from 9-13ish which would be a significant improvement in draft position from 21 which would be a one and done in the playoffs. There is talent in this draft, specifically at linebacker, OL, and DL where we need some help.

If we make the playoffs there is a small chance that we do well, but it depends on our coordinator and Tuck. If Fewell runs these zone coverages and lets receivers run free we are doomed, its a free release and our personnel is not equipped to cover the middle lack of linebackers. Tuck being healthy is necessary because JPP cannot be the only person to generate a passrush, there is clearly something wrong with Tuck and either he plays through it and plays well or he shouldn't play at all.

All in all the major changes I want to see made are:
-Firing Fewell and Gilbride (gilbride should do so much better than he is)
-Firing the training and medical staff
-Hiring Spagnuolo as DC
-Hiring Norv Turner as OC (wishful thinking)
-Letting Jerry Reese do his thing in the draft
-Let our younger players play the rest of the year so we can see what we have
-Rebuilding our OL
-Trade Osi
-Trade or restructure Jacobs's deal, he is not worth that money

BallinNY
12-20-2011, 07:39 PM
Bump (10 characters)

BallinNY
12-20-2011, 08:31 PM
Please respond!!!

giantsforce
12-20-2011, 08:42 PM
Nothing new here. We, the fans, know this. Tthe Giants management on the other hand is as incompetent as they come.

Robert21156
12-20-2011, 08:46 PM
Ok, sorry but Norv Turner isn't coming to the Giants to be the OC after years of being a head coach. Sad but Spags isn't returning either - think that was a bridge that was burned for some reason. I'm not convinced on Scott having enough moves to be a true "take it all the way threat". He hasn't played much but I just don't see enough elusiveness in his game. Petrus played, I'm pretty sure, at Arkansas, and he may turn out well. I agree with some other posters here who say that Amukamura looks slow - doesn't show much closing speed at all. I agree we have been decimated by injuries and I REALLY agree that the coordinators need to go. However, Coughlin won't fire both of them so Tom probably has to go as well. It's easy to get down on our team after what we've seen the last few weeks.

BallinNY
12-20-2011, 08:59 PM
good catch on petrus, I don't know why I said Wisconsin...I also agree on Norv Turner, its wishful thinking. Spags actually has a good chance of coming back, what other things can he ask for? He would be returning to a defense he is very familiar with, a GM and Front Office that has shown they will invest their draft picks and free agency signings to their DC's needs.

I agree on scott, he does have moves, but we don't see them often. The "take it all the way threat" is moreso referring to his speed, which makes him lethal to any defense.

I do agree partly with Amukamara, he looks slow but i attribute that to not knowing assignments well enough to go 100% speed and out of fear of making a mistake.

I have a feeling that Coughlin is already safe, as is Gilbride, but Fewell is G-O-N-E GONE.

jomo
12-20-2011, 09:07 PM
You sure said a mouthful young man. Overall, your analysis of players was very good. Let me nitpick. We are not breaking in another new DC. Fewell is in his second year.</P>


The only off season loss that mattered was TT (technically that was during training camp).</P>


Steve Smith was coming off IR and had to be let go. JR was proved right.</P>


Ditto for Boss.</P>


Cofield was just another DT, nothing special and therefore not a loss. We have to manage the salary cap and Cofield was a casualty.</P>


Goff and Sintim were not losses. They are below average NFL talent.</P>


Losing Hixon did hurt.</P>


Losing Coe, Clayton, Beatty and Andrews didn't hurt. They were no better than backup NFL players despite the fact that Beatty found himself a starting job with the Giants.</P>


Cruz was a steal and I love the guy but he needs to lost the drops.</P>


Nice job with breaking it down.</P>

Martyr
12-20-2011, 09:08 PM
IMO, its time for the coaching staff to go also, we have all seen the samething play out 3 years in a row. I also think the FO should take a hard look at some of these vets and start shaking things up by getting rid of those who dont want to be here. </P>


I cant stand watching games where they decide to just lay down and die, its time for a change or its going to be the samething next year</P>

BallinNY
12-20-2011, 09:43 PM
You sure said a mouthful young man. Overall, your analysis of players was very good. Let me nitpick. We are not breaking in another new DC. Fewell is in his second year.</P>


The only off season loss that mattered was TT (technically that was during training camp).</P>


Steve Smith was coming off IR and had to be let go. JR was proved right.</P>


Ditto for Boss.</P>


Cofield was just another DT, nothing special and therefore not a loss. We have to manage the salary cap and Cofield was a casualty.</P>


Goff and Sintim were not losses. They are below average NFL talent.</P>


Losing Hixon did hurt.</P>


Losing Coe, Clayton, Beatty and Andrews didn't hurt. They were no better than backup NFL players despite the fact that Beatty found himself a starting job with the Giants.</P>


Cruz was a steal and I love the guy but he needs to lost the drops.</P>


Nice job with breaking it down.</P>

You can say that Smith and Boss were meaningless now, but entering the season the general census was panic. Cruz and Ballard were nonfactors. We essentially had no TE and two WR's that hurt their QB with drops for interceptions. Boss and Smith were eli's safety valves, and although they were solid but not spectacular, they were very good players for us.

Smith's route running was second to none, he ran routes to pinpoint, and was able to get consistent separation, theres no wonder why he had over 100 receptions. I hope we resign him because Manningham will not be worth the money in all likelihood.

Boss had pretty good speed and caught balls and took hits (many gave us crucial first downs off of penalties) that had to make fans love him. He wasn't the greatest run blocker, never really set an edge, but his speed and height allowed our receivers to do work by occupying the safeties and we simply don't have that on our roster right now.

Technically, Spags wouldn't be new. He had a lot of these players on his defense, and his ability to play to his personnel's strength would alone be a dominating factor to picking Spags over Fewell. Zimmer is the only other DC I would want that could possibly be available, and he would most likely need to be signed as a HC.

As much as people like to hate on Goff, he was a leader and underrated by most people. I never really liked him because I wanted a freakishly athletic linebacker. But he was a monster against the run, great power and above average instincts. His pass coverage was average, but he wasn't as terrible as people want to believe, the backs that he was forced to cover gave Pierce fits in the past, and he did as well if not better than him.

Sintim was a sad coincidence. He never should've been playing as a 4-3 OLB. He simply didn't have the fluidity or agility to keep up in coverage. But man, he could rush the passer. If he wound up in a 3-4 i think it wouldve been an entirely different story, he played in a complex Al Groh system in virginia and racked up double digit sacks (mightve been the sack leader one year in the NCAA or pretty damn close). He had two bad injuries and was out of position, just bad luck.

Cofield was not just another DT for us. He got rush, we are severely missing interior rush this year. Him and Robbins were both well rounded DT's that were somewhat average in all aspects, but even having minimal rush mattered alot, now QB's can step up in the pocket and see over the line for easy throws in the middle. A gap pressure means a lot, it leads to alot of checkdowns and interceptions off of sideline throws (ball has to travel a longer distance) and sailed balls in the middle by not getting enough on a throw because the QB can't step up and plant. This is another reason why FEWELL SUCKS, no A gap pressure (spags loved to blitz the A gap).

Agree on Hixon, terrible field position off every kickoff and most punts.

Losing backup players still hurts, you cannot honestly say that it doesn't because you don't have full force of your roster. In a battle of fruition that the nfl has become, injuries to ANYONE matters. Coe and Clayton were also good special teamers, and with a special team like ours, we need all the help we can get.

Lol, Cruz was essentially a rookie this season, let him be! He's trying to do too much, running before he catches it, but its not like receivers don't do this. hakeem did this all the time, and has become a lot better. The drop nicks had was because of the sun, he needs to wear a visor.

jomo
12-20-2011, 09:51 PM
You sure said a mouthful young man. Overall, your analysis of players was very good. Let me nitpick. We are not breaking in another new DC. Fewell is in his second year.</P>


The only off season loss that mattered was TT (technically that was during training camp).</P>


Steve Smith was coming off IR and had to be let go. JR was proved right.</P>


Ditto for Boss.</P>


Cofield was just another DT, nothing special and therefore not a loss. We have to manage the salary cap and Cofield was a casualty.</P>


Goff and Sintim were not losses. They are below average NFL talent.</P>


Losing Hixon did hurt.</P>


Losing Coe, Clayton, Beatty and Andrews didn't hurt. They were no better than backup NFL players despite the fact that Beatty found himself a starting job with the Giants.</P>


Cruz was a steal and I love the guy but he needs to lost the drops.</P>


Nice job with breaking it down.</P> You can say that Smith and Boss were meaningless now, but entering the season the general census was panic. Cruz and Ballard were nonfactors. We essentially had no TE and two WR's that hurt their QB with drops for interceptions. Boss and Smith were eli's safety valves, and although they were solid but not spectacular, they were very good players for us. Smith's route running was second to none, he ran routes to pinpoint, and was able to get consistent separation, theres no wonder why he had over 100 receptions. I hope we resign him because Manningham will not be worth the money in all likelihood. Boss had pretty good speed and caught balls and took hits (many gave us crucial first downs off of penalties) that had to make fans love him. He wasn't the greatest run blocker, never really set an edge, but his speed and height allowed our receivers to do work by occupying the safeties and we simply don't have that on our roster right now. Technically, Spags wouldn't be new. He had a lot of these players on his defense, and his ability to play to his personnel's strength would alone be a dominating factor to picking Spags over Fewell. Zimmer is the only other DC I would want that could possibly be available, and he would most likely need to be signed as a HC. As much as people like to hate on Goff, he was a leader and underrated by most people. I never really liked him because I wanted a freakishly athletic linebacker. But he was a monster against the run, great power and above average instincts. His pass coverage was average, but he wasn't as terrible as people want to believe, the backs that he was forced to cover gave Pierce fits in the past, and he did as well if not better than him. Sintim was a sad coincidence. He never should've been playing as a 4-3 OLB. He simply didn't have the fluidity or agility to keep up in coverage. But man, he could rush the passer. If he wound up in a 3-4 i think it wouldve been an entirely different story, he played in a complex Al Groh system in virginia and racked up double digit sacks (mightve been the sack leader one year in the NCAA or pretty damn close). He had two bad injuries and was out of position, just bad luck. Cofield was not just another DT for us. He got rush, we are severely missing interior rush this year. Him and Robbins were both well rounded DT's that were somewhat average in all aspects, but even having minimal rush mattered alot, now QB's can step up in the pocket and see over the line for easy throws in the middle. A gap pressure means a lot, it leads to alot of checkdowns and interceptions off of sideline throws (ball has to travel a longer distance) and sailed balls in the middle by not getting enough on a throw because the QB can't step up and plant. This is another reason why FEWELL SUCKS, no A gap pressure (spags loved to blitz the A gap). Agree on Hixon, terrible field position off every kickoff and most punts. Losing backup players still hurts, you cannot honestly say that it doesn't because you don't have full force of your roster. In a battle of fruition that the nfl has become, injuries to ANYONE matters. Coe and Clayton were also good special teamers, and with a special team like ours, we need all the help we can get. Lol, Cruz was essentially a rookie this season, let him be! He's trying to do too much, running before he catches it, but its not like receivers don't do this. hakeem did this all the time, and has become a lot better. The drop nicks had was because of the sun, he needs to wear a visor.Not because of the sun. I watched as it happened and immediately after. The shadows ran to the goal line cones. Nicks was running between the hash marks. Of course it was in play becasue it was behind him but to say that the sun got in the way is simply an excuse. He should handle his mistake with more honestly, since he is close to being a top 5 receiver in the league. People loved Goff because he occasionally blew up a running play. All too often however, he too bad lines to the ball and he is too stiff to be effective in pass D. ......a very ordinary player IMO. Biggest single problem for this team is PF. We have way too much talent on Dright nowto be ranked #30. That is on him.

JJC7301
12-20-2011, 10:40 PM
I have no doubt that the Giants have a good amount of talent and much of it is young; and the team was absolutely decimated by injuries. I personally would have been less disappointed if they had crashed and burned because of the injuries, but they stayed in it so far. What makes it infuriating is that they are still in it, but still find a way to lose which has been the pattern the past few years -- injuries or no injuries. I'm done with the excuses.

BallinNY
12-21-2011, 05:32 PM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d82529efb/Hakeem-Nicks-drops-a-potential-TD

he is clearly in the light, he probably could see the shadow of the ball, but not the ball itself. This is hard for a receiver because you cannot locate the tip and see the rotation. If you don't see either, you can't depend on using your hands which is why he was trying to catch it with his body. It's just an unfortunate thing that could've been avoided with a visor.

Completely agree on PF.

JMFP2
12-21-2011, 05:54 PM
BallinNY.

Sorry for the late reply. As you said, that was a pretty long post, and took me some time to get through it all.

I don't agree with everything you've said, but that was a great post. Your opinions are clearly presented and supported with information or examples.

I'd love to see Spags return, but if the Eagles want to land him, I see them pulling Reese's pants down again in the offseason.

I'd like to see Del Rio as DC if Spags is not available. I think LB is a huge defensive need next season....it's should be Reese's number one concern.

I like your idea on Norv Turner, espeically with a guy as bright and gifted as Eli at QB.

At this stage of his career, Eli is capable of running the same sort of offense that Aikman ran under Turner.

The key is getting some new talent on the offensive line, and someone to replace Jacobs and Bradshaw next year.

Robert21156
12-21-2011, 05:56 PM
IMO, its time for the coaching staff to go also, we have all seen the samething play out 3 years in a row. I also think the FO should take a hard look at some of these vets and start shaking things up by getting rid of those who dont want to be here. </P>


I cant stand watching games where they decide to just lay down and die, its time for a change or its going to be the samething next year</P>


</P>


First thing I'd do is get rid of Reese, then the coaching staff. I know that sounds like a lot of instability, but I blame our lack of talent on Reese and the coaching inadequacies are pretty obvious. I'd instigate more wholesale changes on this roster than many people would like because unless we have MAJOR shakeups, I can't see us making a move up fast enough.</P>

BallinNY
12-21-2011, 07:00 PM
BallinNY.

Sorry for the late reply. As you said, that was a pretty long post, and took me some time to get through it all.

I don't agree with everything you've said, but that was a great post. Your opinions are clearly presented and supported with information or examples.

I'd love to see Spags return, but if the Eagles want to land him, I see them pulling Reese's pants down again in the offseason.

I'd like to see Del Rio as DC if Spags is not available. I think LB is a huge defensive need next season....it's should be Reese's number one concern.

I like your idea on Norv Turner, espeically with a guy as bright and gifted as Eli at QB.

At this stage of his career, Eli is capable of running the same sort of offense that Aikman ran under Turner.

The key is getting some new talent on the offensive line, and someone to replace Jacobs and Bradshaw next year.

Thank you, and thank you and the rest of you all for giving me legitimate responses instead of what other people do and give out immature comments or personal attacks.

I did hear rumors about eagles and spags, but we are at a point where we can't afford NOT to get him back. He is the ideal person for our defense. They need a kick in the *** and he does that, he knows how to motivate players. I would throw money, a future HC job, and keys to our personnel choices (to a certain degree like we did before).

As far as Del Rio, I am not as familiar with his schemes, but I know he likes to blitz so I have no problem with that. If you are not going to be aggressive then you are giving the offense free yardage and free first downs, prolonging a drive.

LB is really a huge need, I think we ignored it because we saw the transition to a passing league, but the problem is, you still need LB's who can line players up, who can diagnose a play or what the defense has to do to stay in position. Pierce was great at that, we need someone like that, a leader or quarterback of the defense. I like Vontaze Burfict, although he's a headcase, players feed off of him and he delivers difference making plays. He doesn't play controlled and sometimes gets himself out of position, but there is talent there that isn't in any other prospect i've seen this year.

Turner is ideal, he is a QB and WR friendly OC, and runs a system based on run. He and Spags both would fit us like gloves. I'm tired of Coughlin's Cover 2 coordinators, we aren't that kind of team, and i don't like the scheme itself because you are relying on quarterbacks trying to take too much. Its predictable and opposing OC's eat this up all day.

I agree with new offensive linemen too. McKenzie is done, he is average in all aspects now, even run blocking where he was very good two years ago. Diehl has taken a few steps back, Snee too. I think what would be best right now is to move Diehl to RT, keep Snee at RG. They already have a good relationship and work well together, so it won't be hard for them to gel next to eachother.

Next I would get rid of any hope I had for Beatty, he was sub par in all aspects this year, and I think he was alot of the reason why Diehl looked soo bad.

Petrus should be starting at LG, unless we decide to go out and sign a FA. Petrus is very good at run blocking and I don't think he will be a liability in pass blocking

Two prospects I really like are Peter Konz C from Wisconsin, and Riley Reiff from Iowa. Both could start early in their careers, both are great run blockers.

a starting line of:

Reiff-Petrus-Konz-Snee-Diehl

would create a much improved run blocking line. I don't like Baas, he is very average, and Seubert was much better than him for us IMO.

BallinNY
12-21-2011, 07:07 PM
IMO, its time for the coaching staff to go also, we have all seen the samething play out 3 years in a row. I also think the FO should take a hard look at some of these vets and start shaking things up by getting rid of those who dont want to be here. </P>


I cant stand watching games where they decide to just lay down and die, its time for a change or its going to be the samething next year</P>


</P>


First thing I'd do is get rid of Reese, then the coaching staff.* I know that sounds like a lot of instability, but I blame our lack of talent on Reese and the coaching inadequacies are pretty obvious.* I'd instigate more wholesale changes on this roster than many people would like because unless we have MAJOR shakeups, I can't see us making a move up fast enough.</P>

Reese is not the problem, he is one of the best GM's in football as shown by multiple sources and his draft picks. We are a very talented team, but we have a lot of injuries and have lost a lot of talent (for good) from this. Ex: Sintim, Phillips(still here but not the same), Ross, Steve Smith, Kevin Boss, Guy Whimper...etc.

I would like to see alot of changes to coordinators, but our personnel is not bad with the exception of OL and LB.

netplus
12-21-2011, 07:16 PM
a starting line of:

Reiff-Petrus-Konz-Snee-Diehl
.

Do you really want Diehl back next year? In my opinion he is awful. Watch him play this week and I think you'll change your mind.

Great write-up. I would love to see your opinion on the DB's ;-)

Idkaname
12-21-2011, 07:17 PM
You sure said a mouthful young man. Overall, your analysis of players was very good. Let me nitpick. We are not breaking in another new DC. Fewell is in his second year.</P>


The only off season loss that mattered was TT (technically that was during training camp).</P>


Steve Smith was coming off IR and had to be let go. JR was proved right.</P>


Ditto for Boss.</P>


Cofield was just another DT, nothing special and therefore not a loss. We have to manage the salary cap and Cofield was a casualty.</P>


Goff and Sintim were not losses. They are below average NFL talent.</P>


Losing Hixon did hurt.</P>


Losing Coe, Clayton, Beatty and Andrews didn't hurt. They were no better than backup NFL players despite the fact that Beatty found himself a starting job with the Giants.</P>


Cruz was a steal and I love the guy but he needs to lost the drops.</P>


Nice job with breaking it down.</P>
I think losing Goff was huge.

BallinNY
12-21-2011, 07:28 PM
a starting line of:

Reiff-Petrus-Konz-Snee-Diehl
.

Do you really want Diehl back next year? In my opinion he is awful. Watch him play this week and I think you'll change your mind.

Great write-up. I would love to see your opinion on the DB's ;-)

Diehl is fine, he has strayed from the pro caliber player we had a few years ago, he is definitely not a LT. He doesn't handle speed rushers well, and because of this he sometimes over compensates and gets knocked off balance by a bull rush. He is not a natural LT, but he would probably be very good at RT.

At RT he would most likely encounter slower passrushers, but better run defenders. This is an easier matchup for a former guard that is forced to take on DT's. Imo this would be even more ideal for us with the emergence of Petrus and so that the right side of the line along with a pulling left guard can be consistent for running yardage.

I will do DB's in a few I have to do something.

NoHuddle10
12-21-2011, 08:25 PM
a starting line of:

Reiff-Petrus-Konz-Snee-Diehl
.

Do you really want Diehl back next year? In my opinion he is awful. Watch him play this week and I think you'll change your mind.

Great write-up. I would love to see your opinion on the DB's ;-)

Diehl is fine, he has strayed from the pro caliber player we had a few years ago, he is definitely not a LT. He doesn't handle speed rushers well, and because of this he sometimes over compensates and gets knocked off balance by a bull rush. He is not a natural LT, but he would probably be very good at RT.

At RT he would most likely encounter slower passrushers, but better run defenders. This is an easier matchup for a former guard that is forced to take on DT's. Imo this would be even more ideal for us with the emergence of Petrus and so that the right side of the line along with a pulling left guard can be consistent for running yardage.

I will do DB's in a few I have to do something.



BallinNY -



The OP was dead on. If only we had more intelligent fans such as yourself on this board we would all be much better off.



Impossible to sum it up any better than this.



Great post sir, I agree with it all 100%

Martyr
12-21-2011, 08:44 PM
IMO, its time for the coaching staff to go also, we have all seen the samething play out 3 years in a row. I also think the FO should take a hard look at some of these vets and start shaking things up by getting rid of those who dont want to be here. </P>


I cant stand watching games where they decide to just lay down and die, its time for a change or its going to be the samething next year</P>


</P>


First thing I'd do is get rid of Reese, then the coaching staff. I know that sounds like a lot of instability, but I blame our lack of talent on Reese and the coaching inadequacies are pretty obvious. I'd instigate more wholesale changes on this roster than many people would like because unless we have MAJOR shakeups, I can't see us making a move up fast enough.</P>


Reese is not the problem, he is one of the best GM's in football as shown by multiple sources and his draft picks. We are a very talented team, but we have a lot of injuries and have lost a lot of talent (for good) from this. Ex: Sintim, Phillips(still here but not the same), Ross, Steve Smith, Kevin Boss, Guy Whimper...etc. I would like to see alot of changes to coordinators, but our personnel is not bad with the exception of OL and LB.</P>


Reese has been doing a great job of drafting the only thing I'd question is some of the FA's but we could be doning worse thats for sure. Its nice to see some guys step up like Eli, JPP, &amp; Cruz but some players have dropped off like Diehl &amp; Grant.</P>


</P>

BallinNY
12-21-2011, 09:15 PM
a starting line of:

Reiff-Petrus-Konz-Snee-Diehl
.

Do you really want Diehl back next year? In my opinion he is awful. Watch him play this week and I think you'll change your mind.

Great write-up. I would love to see your opinion on the DB's ;-)

All in all, the DB's are being misused and because of the lack of A and B gap pressure (see my previous posts in this thread), they are having to cover crossing routes while the QB's are able to step into throws, which makes it very hard for them to undercut those routes for potential interceptions or a deflection.

Antrel Rolle, we spent a lot of money on him but we aren't getting the playmaking ability we have seen. The plays where he is lethal is when he is in single high safety, which we rarely are able to use him in because he needs to cover the slot (our linebackers definitely cannot do this) or the runningback. He is a ballhawk, i suggest we use him that way or in blitz packages where we did last year. He is much more talented than his performance this year, and i attribute most of that to him not being used as he should. If you remember correctly, he did a pretty good job against Wes Welker as a SAFETY! that means a lot, and should tell you he is very very good. Now he does miss tackles and gives up plays, but any DB does that, especially if we aren't getting enough pressure with the front 4. He isn't extremely fast, but is quick, has good ball skills, and is instinctive.

Kenny Phillips isn't what we thought he'd be, but he is a pretty damn good player nonetheless. Very good in run support, covers a lot of ground as a deep safety, but isn't as instinctive as we thought. He is still growing as a player, but he has that constant knee injury that hinders his play. He's the most humble of our DB's, a good guy, and I am rooting for the light bulb in his head to really click. He isn't as agile as Rolle, probably a little faster, less instinctive, but he is more consistent versus the run.

Corey Webster is a top corner in this league. Yes, he has let up plays and touchdowns, but a corner without a rush is in deep water. Webster has become a lot more fluid, making it possible for him to overcome not having elite speed or agility. He's very physical, but very smart. This is why we see him being able to play with receivers despite Fewell's **** defense, he has more experience and was able to develop his game mentally and physically.

Terrell Thomas was a key loss for us not only because he was a starting corner, but he was a major turnover magnet. Turnovers are what fuel the Cover 2 defense. You are allowing receivers to run free and waiting for the quarterback to make an arrant throw. Thomas was very good at reacting to the ball in the air, he isn't very fast, but his quickness and play recognition are what made him one of the best corners in the league last season in that aspect. He however is a liability versus man, which is why the idea of him being used as a pseudo linebacker (as grant is being used now) was presented so that we could use him in a way that would be best fitted for his skillset. I am afraid that the ACL injury will most likely ruin him because of the suddenness needed to make these plays will most likely be lost. We'll see, different people recover in different ways, some worse or better.

Aaron Ross confuses the hell out of me. He hasn't had major injuries, but a bunch of nagging smaller ones, and many hamstring injuries. He is probably best fit for press man, but he hasn't been as physical as we thought he would, he doesn't get sufficient jams off the line, at least on a consistent basis. He is quick, fast, rangy, but he isn't as fluid as thomas or webster. He isn't mentally the player they are, but he has the ability of being a very good starting corner in the league. He is actually ok in most coverages, but bites on double moves and allows alot of separation. He's 29 i think, probably not worth keeping unless he comes back for cheaper than starter pay.

Deon Grant saved us this year in the secondary as far as I'm concerned. He plays very disciplined, which hurts us sometimes against players like Vick, but he is not anything more than average in most categories. Classic veteran player, good signing and true giants imo. He should be our leader on defense, he speaks with thought and plays with emotion.

Prince Amukamara is not a failure, people who say otherwise are dumb. He has a skillset that we are seeing more and more in the NFL being highly touted. He has size, speed, and although he doesn't have great ball skills, he is what we call an all around corner. He is very impressive versus the run (as are Thomas and Webster) and shows great ability to mirror the receiver. Problems he has are flipping his hips, and that is just about the only problem i have with him. He is fluid, but not comfortable in the position just yet. You have to remember that he has only been playing cornerback for 3 years prior to now. Regarding his performances of recent, you should take them with a grain of salt. He is playing with receivers in mid-season form as a rookie corner in preseason form that missed a training camp, and did not have the playbook until the lockout ended. If you have read my previous posts, you see my argument that he probably doesn't know his assignments well. If any of you have played football, even at the highschool level, you know that it is hard to play 100% effort without having your assignments down pat. He has had many plays against very good receivers, and some not so good plays. the plays that you see that are positive you rarely remember or actually saw, but the bad you do because they are obvious. Judgement is not final on him.

Bruce Johnson was a big loss imo, very underrated. He had elite speed, good quickness, closing speed, not very physical, but he was developing well. I hope we sign him again, unfortunate injury.

Coe and Tryon aren't very good, but not THAT bad, but i do not anticipate either being legitimate starters or contributing to this team as more than nickel corners or special teamers.

BallinNY
12-21-2011, 09:32 PM
IMO, its time for the coaching staff to go also, we have all seen the samething play out 3 years in a row. I also think the FO should take a hard look at some of these vets and start shaking things up by getting rid of those who dont want to be here. </P>


I cant stand watching games where they decide to just lay down and die, its time for a change or its going to be the samething next year</P>


</P>


First thing I'd do is get rid of Reese, then the coaching staff.* I know that sounds like a lot of instability, but I blame our lack of talent on Reese and the coaching inadequacies are pretty obvious.* I'd instigate more wholesale changes on this roster than many people would like because unless we have MAJOR shakeups, I can't see us making a move up fast enough.</P>


Reese is not the problem, he is one of the best GM's in football as shown by multiple sources and his draft picks. We are a very talented team, but we have a lot of injuries and have lost a lot of talent (for good) from this. Ex: Sintim, Phillips(still here but not the same), Ross, Steve Smith, Kevin Boss, Guy Whimper...etc. I would like to see alot of changes to coordinators, but our personnel is not bad with the exception of OL and LB.</P>


Reese has been doing a great job of drafting the only thing I'd question is some of the FA's but we could be doning worse thats for sure. Its nice to see some guys step up like Eli, JPP, & Cruz but some players have dropped off like Diehl & Grant.</P>


*</P>

We typically don't get premiere free agents, spending all that money on players holds up alot of our cap and makes it hard to resign our own talent. Our own talent is more crucial because getting a free agent means that we don't know if they will be able to translate their talents to our system. Free agents < own talent (most of the time).

Like I proposed in my first post, losing these two games could get us maybe even a top 10 pick. Give Jerry something to work with, making the playoffs with the coordinators, injuries, and attitude we have now is pointless. All it takes is one or two good drafts to return a team to a playoff powerhouse, especially with the players we have in place already.

Diehl and Grant are two players that have been very good for us, I don't think you can say that Grant has regressed, individually he is still as good as he was in past seasons. Diehl isn't showing the power in the run game as much as he used to, which is something that really alarms me. I do think that Beatty sucking had something to do with that, but you're right in saying that he hasn't performed as well. Next season i hope he's an RT







a starting line of:

Reiff-Petrus-Konz-Snee-Diehl
.

Do you really want Diehl back next year? In my opinion he is awful. Watch him play this week and I think you'll change your mind.

Great write-up. I would love to see your opinion on the DB's ;-)

Diehl is fine, he has strayed from the pro caliber player we had a few years ago, he is definitely not a LT. He doesn't handle speed rushers well, and because of this he sometimes over compensates and gets knocked off balance by a bull rush. He is not a natural LT, but he would probably be very good at RT.

At RT he would most likely encounter slower passrushers, but better run defenders. This is an easier matchup for a former guard that is forced to take on DT's. Imo this would be even more ideal for us with the emergence of Petrus and so that the right side of the line along with a pulling left guard can be consistent for running yardage.

I will do DB's in a few I have to do something.



BallinNY -



The OP was dead on. If only we had more intelligent fans such as yourself on this board we would all be much better off.



Impossible to sum it up any better than this.



Great post sir, I agree with it all 100%

Thank you, I am glad that people agree with me, but it is really frustrating that the changes that us fans see should happen don't. Getting our opinions out there shouldn't be for naught, ideas (especially over the internet) have ways of accumulating and finding their ways into anyone's laps, maybe even the Mara's?

JMFP2
12-21-2011, 09:36 PM
You sure said a mouthful young man. Overall, your analysis of players was very good. Let me nitpick. We are not breaking in another new DC. Fewell is in his second year.</P>


The only off season loss that mattered was TT (technically that was during training camp).</P>


Steve Smith was coming off IR and had to be let go. JR was proved right.</P>


Ditto for Boss.</P>


Cofield was just another DT, nothing special and therefore not a loss. We have to manage the salary cap and Cofield was a casualty.</P>


Goff and Sintim were not losses. They are below average NFL talent.</P>


Losing Hixon did hurt.</P>


Losing Coe, Clayton, Beatty and Andrews didn't hurt. They were no better than backup NFL players despite the fact that Beatty found himself a starting job with the Giants.</P>


Cruz was a steal and I love the guy but he needs to lost the drops.</P>


Nice job with breaking it down.</P>


I think losing Goff was huge.</P>


Hard to tell. He was okay last year, but nothing special.</P>


I thought he was coming on during the preseason, but without seeing actual improvement during games that count, one can only speculate on whether he was the answer in the middle.</P>


Next season, I really hope he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt.....the Giants need to stock this unit with talent and let competition play out.</P>

BallinNY
12-21-2011, 10:25 PM
You sure said a mouthful young man. Overall, your analysis of players was very good. Let me nitpick. We are not breaking in another new DC. Fewell is in his second year.</P>


The only off season loss that mattered was TT (technically that was during training camp).</P>


Steve Smith was coming off IR and had to be let go. JR was proved right.</P>


Ditto for Boss.</P>


Cofield was just another DT, nothing special and therefore not a loss. We have to manage the salary cap and Cofield was a casualty.</P>


Goff and Sintim were not losses. They are below average NFL talent.</P>


Losing Hixon did hurt.</P>


Losing Coe, Clayton, Beatty and Andrews didn't hurt. They were no better than backup NFL players despite the fact that Beatty found himself a starting job with the Giants.</P>


Cruz was a steal and I love the guy but he needs to lost the drops.</P>


Nice job with breaking it down.</P>


I think losing Goff was huge.</P>


Hard to tell.* He was okay last year, but nothing special.</P>


I thought he was coming on during the preseason, but without seeing actual improvement during games that count, one can only speculate on whether he was the answer in the middle.</P>


Next season, I really hope he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt.....the Giants need to stock this unit with talent and let competition play out.</P>

We're all underrating him. Even taking away the aspect of him being a leader of our defense (yes he started being a lot more vocal), he still made a lot of stops for us. He was very good at plugging the interior running lanes, but struggled in pursuit due to lack of change of direction. He was actually pretty good versus the pass, nothing great, but he was much better than he should've been.

Next season he is a free agent, is coming off of an injury that further limits his change of direction. This probably means that we won't be resigning him, especially with younger players showing some promise at his position. I feel for the guy because he was far outplaying his physical ability.

BParcells777
12-21-2011, 11:00 PM
You made a lot of good points but your inability to assign any liability to Coughlin makes you suspect

A team is only as good as their leader.........take a look at SFO with essentially the same roster as they had under Singletary

Coughlin has over-stayed his sell by date.........his motivation skills are hopeless...he choose Sheridan, and Fewell.......game over

also you downplay Osi as a part time player but game changer......otherwise I agree with everything you said

Its COWHER TIME........Its inevitable

Even if the Giants make the playoffs and get embarrassed in round one (which you can make book on)...........He has to GO .......like it or not.....are you related to Tom?

netplus
12-21-2011, 11:21 PM
Coughlin won a super bowl, and now he can't coach?

I guess fellow Super Bowl winner Jon Gruden was a bad coach. The year after they fired him Tampa Bay went 3-13.

JMFP2
12-22-2011, 12:10 AM
You made a lot of good points but your inability to assign any liability to Coughlin makes you suspect

A team is only as good as their leader.........take a look at SFO with essentially the same roster as they had under Singletary

Coughlin has over-stayed his sell by date.........his motivation skills are hopeless...he choose Sheridan, and Fewell.......game over

also you downplay Osi as a part time player but game changer......otherwise I agree with everything you said

Its COWHER TIME........Its inevitable

Even if the Giants make the playoffs and get embarrassed in round one (which you can make book on)...........He has to GO .......like it or not.....are you related to Tom?
</P>


</P>


Cowher.... a good, hard nosed coach, who had his share of disappointing finishes, and was on the "hot seat" several times according to the media, but was given the benefit of the doubt by ownership, and won a Super Bowl when he finally had the players he needed.</P>


Hmmmm......that story line sounds familiar.</P>


</P>

BallinNY
12-22-2011, 12:13 AM
You made a lot of good points but your inability to assign any liability to Coughlin makes you suspect

A team is only as good as their leader.........take a look at SFO with essentially the same roster as they had under Singletary

Coughlin has over-stayed his sell by date.........his motivation skills are hopeless...he choose Sheridan, and Fewell.......game over

also you downplay Osi as a part time player but game changer......otherwise I agree with everything you said

Its COWHER TIME........Its inevitable

Even if the Giants make the playoffs and get embarrassed in round one (which you can make book on)...........He has to GO .......like it or not.....are you related to Tom?


Coughlin won a super bowl, and now he can't coach?

I guess fellow Super Bowl winner Jon Gruden was a bad coach. The year after they fired him Tampa Bay went 3-13.

I didn't address Coughlin because I don't feel he is a major part of the problem. I am not entirely sure of my feelings if he has to go or stay, but I like that he doesn't want to take any bull**** from players. He is, in part, why we have developed so many good receivers (former Wr's coach).

Cowher has said that he wanted to coach for the giants, but he would command a lot. He wants control over personnel, and being an advocate of the 3-4, he would most likely like to implement it. I don't mind the 3-4, but a transition to it would take awhile, and we clearly do not have the linebackers.

Another thing, Eli is in his prime right now. We waste time breaking in a new system and rebuilding, we are wasting elite years of his career.

What leads you to believe Coughlin is a bad coach? Because players carrying someone after a win like they did shows that they like him.

You are right about his coordinators, they are usually terrible. He is way too loyal to them. The Mara's are also usually way to loyal to coaches also, so I don't see Coughlin going anywhere, but Fewell is gone imo.

burier
12-22-2011, 03:55 PM
I'm shocked that you would mention Norv Turner who is a total hack.

As much as we all want Spags back he's a grown man. Him comming back to the Giants would be like a kid comming home after running away telling Daddy that the real world is too scary. Don't think it will happen.


For some reason every time we have a down season someone is ready to blame injuries.

Goff was not a impact player. I was hoping (Since we didn't address linebacker early enough in the draft or in free agency) that he would make a leap but it was just a hope.

Same for T2. There's a tendancy to romanticize these players who were not all that good.

Austin getting hurt is beside the point since we don't even know what he could do.

Same for Prince

The guys we lost to free agency? Well tough titty. You lose guys to free agency. Thats the name of the game and thats beside the point because with the acception of cofield the replacements have been more productive.

Right now in the seconary we have nothing but first and second round draft choices so I expect them to be able to perform.

We don't have Linebackers and that is on Reese. It was IMPERATIVE that linebacker be addressed this offseason and it wasn't and now we can't play defense because of it.

David Baas is a bust and thats on Reese too. As a matter of fact. JRs complete vision of what the oline would look like has turned out to be completely misguided.

The bottom line is the state of the NY Giants is an epic failure.

Gianthunter
12-22-2011, 04:04 PM
I'm shocked that you would mention Norv Turner who is a total hack. As much as we all want Spags back he's a grown man. Him comming back to the Giants would be like a kid comming home after running away telling Daddy that the real world is too scary. Don't think it will happen. For some reason every time we have a down season someone is ready to blame injuries. Goff was not a impact player. I was hoping (Since we didn't address linebacker early enough in the draft or in free agency) that he would make a leap but it was just a hope. Same for T2. There's a tendancy to romanticize these players who were not all that good. Austin getting hurt is beside the point since we don't even know what he could do. Same for Prince The guys we lost to free agency? Well tough titty. You lose guys to free agency. Thats the name of the game and thats beside the point because with the acception of cofield the replacements have been more productive. Right now in the seconary we have nothing but first and second round draft choices so I expect them to be able to perform. We don't have Linebackers and that is on Reese. It was IMPERATIVE that linebacker be addressed this offseason and it wasn't and now we can't play defense because of it. David Baas is a bust and thats on Reese too. As a matter of fact. JRs complete vision of what the oline would look like has turned out to be completely misguided. The bottom line is the state of the NY Giants is an epic failure.The schemes are to complex for career NFL players to follow.

BallinNY
12-22-2011, 07:18 PM
I'm shocked that you would mention Norv Turner who is a total hack.

As much as we all want Spags back he's a grown man. Him comming back to the Giants would be like a kid comming home after running away telling Daddy that the real world is too scary. Don't think it will happen.

For some reason every time we have a down season someone is ready to blame injuries.

Goff was not a impact player. I was hoping (Since we didn't address linebacker early enough in the draft or in free agency) that he would make a leap but it was just a hope.

Same for T2. There's a tendancy to romanticize these players who were not all that good.

Austin getting hurt is beside the point since we don't even know what he could do.

Same for Prince

The guys we lost to free agency? Well tough titty. You lose guys to free agency. Thats the name of the game and thats beside the point because with the acception of cofield the replacements have been more productive.

Right now in the seconary we have nothing but first and second round draft choices so I expect them to be able to perform.

We don't have Linebackers and that is on Reese. It was IMPERATIVE that linebacker be addressed this offseason and it wasn't and now we can't play defense because of it.

David Baas is a bust and thats on Reese too. As a matter of fact. JRs complete vision of what the oline would look like has turned out to be completely misguided.

The bottom line is the state of the NY Giants is an epic failure.

Turner's offensive system is very good, especially for a team that wants to make a living of running the ball in order to pass. He may not be a great motivator or HC in general, but he's a damn good OC.

That is probably not a metaphor I would ever use for a coach that just lost their job, wanting to prove himself again.

Thomas is loved for his turnovers, there is no reason not to love that because he is so good at causing them. His man coverage really isn't great, but most people get exposed by Vincent Jackson if they dont have elite size and speed. Jackson is a nightmare for DB's. Thomas is legit, and i don't know how you don't love him because not only does he creat e turnovers and is above average in man, but he is very good in run defense.

Austin does hurt us, probably more than you think. In camp he had already worked himself up to our 3rd DT (which isn't hard to do with Bernard constantly underachieving) but he was showing that he had that burst and could shed blockers well. Like I've said time and time again, interior pressure is a lot of the reason why our DB's look terrible. If a quarterback can step into throws in the middle, they are easy completions because the time and distance the ball travels is significantly lowered, rendering DB's unable to act on the ball in the air.

I am tired of talking about prince, just watch now.

Really? Cofield's replacements have been more productive? I'd like to see the numbers on that. One good thing that came to Joseph being in the starting lineup is run defense, but he hasn't generated enough push to condense the pocket, or shot many gaps.

If you don't get consistent pressure you wont be able to cover everyone for that long. Coverage is only as good as passrush.

Besides linebackers, TE, and OL, we pretty much have a great roster. You're right though its been a problem a long time, and with the league transforming to a pass league, we've needed coverage linebackers. Boley was a very good pickup, and other than that we've been unable to avoid injuries in this position.

I don't know what is wrong with Beatty, he is just soft. In college he wasn't this soft, and was a very good pass protector. Baas was never that good, he was average and serviceable, and with Koets, O'Hara, Seubert all injured what options did he have? Put some blame on our coaches that couldnt develop them them, the talent is there.

burier
12-23-2011, 10:38 AM
I'm shocked that you would mention Norv Turner who is a total hack.

As much as we all want Spags back he's a grown man. Him comming back to the Giants would be like a kid comming home after running away telling Daddy that the real world is too scary. Don't think it will happen.

For some reason every time we have a down season someone is ready to blame injuries.

Goff was not a impact player. I was hoping (Since we didn't address linebacker early enough in the draft or in free agency) that he would make a leap but it was just a hope.

Same for T2. There's a tendancy to romanticize these players who were not all that good.

Austin getting hurt is beside the point since we don't even know what he could do.

Same for Prince

The guys we lost to free agency? Well tough titty. You lose guys to free agency. Thats the name of the game and thats beside the point because with the acception of cofield the replacements have been more productive.

Right now in the seconary we have nothing but first and second round draft choices so I expect them to be able to perform.

We don't have Linebackers and that is on Reese. It was IMPERATIVE that linebacker be addressed this offseason and it wasn't and now we can't play defense because of it.

David Baas is a bust and thats on Reese too. As a matter of fact. JRs complete vision of what the oline would look like has turned out to be completely misguided.

The bottom line is the state of the NY Giants is an epic failure.

Turner's offensive system is very good, especially for a team that wants to make a living of running the ball in order to pass. He may not be a great motivator or HC in general, but he's a damn good OC.

That is probably not a metaphor I would ever use for a coach that just lost their job, wanting to prove himself again.

Thomas is loved for his turnovers, there is no reason not to love that because he is so good at causing them. His man coverage really isn't great, but most people get exposed by Vincent Jackson if they dont have elite size and speed. Jackson is a nightmare for DB's. Thomas is legit, and i don't know how you don't love him because not only does he creat e turnovers and is above average in man, but he is very good in run defense.

Austin does hurt us, probably more than you think. In camp he had already worked himself up to our 3rd DT (which isn't hard to do with Bernard constantly underachieving) but he was showing that he had that burst and could shed blockers well. Like I've said time and time again, interior pressure is a lot of the reason why our DB's look terrible. If a quarterback can step into throws in the middle, they are easy completions because the time and distance the ball travels is significantly lowered, rendering DB's unable to act on the ball in the air.

I am tired of talking about prince, just watch now.

Really? Cofield's replacements have been more productive? I'd like to see the numbers on that. One good thing that came to Joseph being in the starting lineup is run defense, but he hasn't generated enough push to condense the pocket, or shot many gaps.

If you don't get consistent pressure you wont be able to cover everyone for that long. Coverage is only as good as passrush.

Besides linebackers, TE, and OL, we pretty much have a great roster. You're right though its been a problem a long time, and with the league transforming to a pass league, we've needed coverage linebackers. Boley was a very good pickup, and other than that we've been unable to avoid injuries in this position.

I don't know what is wrong with Beatty, he is just soft. In college he wasn't this soft, and was a very good pass protector. Baas was never that good, he was average and serviceable, and with Koets, O'Hara, Seubert all injured what options did he have? Put some blame on our coaches that couldnt develop them them, the talent is there.

first thing is I was excluding Cofield when I was talking about the replacements being better. Meaning Smith and Boss. If you're saying we miss Cofield this year I agree.

As far as Austin. I don't doubt the kids talent. But I haven't seen it in a real game and he wasn't on the team last season so to act like a rookie going down before we saw what he brought in real game scenarios is catastrophic is highly presumptuous.

When it comes to Turner I was never impressed. He gets good production with a good quarterback a good running back and a weak division in optimal weather all year.

He coorindated in Oakland with the big armed Kerry Collins and Randy Moss and couldn't get big play production.

His schemes are too simple for the juiced up defenses in the East.

I like T2. We're missing him against the run but my point is...when do we get to say someone else has to step up. If injuries to players are going to be an excuse we're going to have an excuse every year. If Revis goes down and your secondary's production falls off a cliff I get it. T2 not so much.

I've said this a million times. but we have nothing but blue chippers in our secondary despite t2 going down (Infact he was drafted the latest of the bunch and has the weakest upside on paper) If those guys can't hack it then someone needs to be accountable for that. Either the scout department, the coaches..someone. We can't just say.."Well our 3rd round draft choice got hurt so its ok to suck"

Beattly is fine at LT. Remember this is his first year as the full time starter. He'll improve. LT is more about technique than having a really defined mean streak. We don't run over his side very often. In fact historically the Giants run to the right regardless of the lineup.

The main thing is we need someone who can at least get in the way of the DeMarcu Wares of the world and beatty can do that. Eli will more often than not take care of the rest.

BallinNY
12-23-2011, 04:11 PM
I'm shocked that you would mention Norv Turner who is a total hack.

As much as we all want Spags back he's a grown man. Him comming back to the Giants would be like a kid comming home after running away telling Daddy that the real world is too scary. Don't think it will happen.

For some reason every time we have a down season someone is ready to blame injuries.

Goff was not a impact player. I was hoping (Since we didn't address linebacker early enough in the draft or in free agency) that he would make a leap but it was just a hope.

Same for T2. There's a tendancy to romanticize these players who were not all that good.

Austin getting hurt is beside the point since we don't even know what he could do.

Same for Prince

The guys we lost to free agency? Well tough titty. You lose guys to free agency. Thats the name of the game and thats beside the point because with the acception of cofield the replacements have been more productive.

Right now in the seconary we have nothing but first and second round draft choices so I expect them to be able to perform.

We don't have Linebackers and that is on Reese. It was IMPERATIVE that linebacker be addressed this offseason and it wasn't and now we can't play defense because of it.

David Baas is a bust and thats on Reese too. As a matter of fact. JRs complete vision of what the oline would look like has turned out to be completely misguided.

The bottom line is the state of the NY Giants is an epic failure.

Turner's offensive system is very good, especially for a team that wants to make a living of running the ball in order to pass. He may not be a great motivator or HC in general, but he's a damn good OC.

That is probably not a metaphor I would ever use for a coach that just lost their job, wanting to prove himself again.

Thomas is loved for his turnovers, there is no reason not to love that because he is so good at causing them. His man coverage really isn't great, but most people get exposed by Vincent Jackson if they dont have elite size and speed. Jackson is a nightmare for DB's. Thomas is legit, and i don't know how you don't love him because not only does he creat e turnovers and is above average in man, but he is very good in run defense.

Austin does hurt us, probably more than you think. In camp he had already worked himself up to our 3rd DT (which isn't hard to do with Bernard constantly underachieving) but he was showing that he had that burst and could shed blockers well. Like I've said time and time again, interior pressure is a lot of the reason why our DB's look terrible. If a quarterback can step into throws in the middle, they are easy completions because the time and distance the ball travels is significantly lowered, rendering DB's unable to act on the ball in the air.

I am tired of talking about prince, just watch now.

Really? Cofield's replacements have been more productive? I'd like to see the numbers on that. One good thing that came to Joseph being in the starting lineup is run defense, but he hasn't generated enough push to condense the pocket, or shot many gaps.

If you don't get consistent pressure you wont be able to cover everyone for that long. Coverage is only as good as passrush.

Besides linebackers, TE, and OL, we pretty much have a great roster. You're right though its been a problem a long time, and with the league transforming to a pass league, we've needed coverage linebackers. Boley was a very good pickup, and other than that we've been unable to avoid injuries in this position.

I don't know what is wrong with Beatty, he is just soft. In college he wasn't this soft, and was a very good pass protector. Baas was never that good, he was average and serviceable, and with Koets, O'Hara, Seubert all injured what options did he have? Put some blame on our coaches that couldnt develop them them, the talent is there.

first thing is I was excluding Cofield when I was talking about the replacements being better. Meaning Smith and Boss. If you're saying we miss Cofield this year I agree.

As far as Austin. I don't doubt the kids talent. But I haven't seen it in a real game and he wasn't on the team last season so to act like a rookie going down before we saw what he brought in real game scenarios is catastrophic is highly presumptuous.

When it comes to Turner I was never impressed. He gets good production with a good quarterback a good running back and a weak division in optimal weather all year.

He coorindated in Oakland with the big armed Kerry Collins and Randy Moss and couldn't get big play production.

His schemes are too simple for the juiced up defenses in the East.

I like T2. We're missing him against the run but my point is...when do we get to say someone else has to step up. If injuries to players are going to be an excuse we're going to have an excuse every year. If Revis goes down and your secondary's production falls off a cliff I get it. T2 not so much.

I've said this a million times. but we have nothing but blue chippers in our secondary despite t2 going down (Infact he was drafted the latest of the bunch and has the weakest upside on paper) If those guys can't hack it then someone needs to be accountable for that. Either the scout department, the coaches..someone. We can't just say.."Well our 3rd round draft choice got hurt so its ok to suck"

Beattly is fine at LT. Remember this is his first year as the full time starter. He'll improve. LT is more about technique than having a really defined mean streak. We don't run over his side very often. In fact historically the Giants run to the right regardless of the lineup.

The main thing is we need someone who can at least get in the way of the DeMarcu Wares of the world and beatty can do that. Eli will more often than not take care of the rest.

well exception isn't spelled "acception" so i thought you meant to say accepting. Boss may not have been as productive, but he opened up a lot more for our outside wide receivers, his speed and height drew the safeties in quite a bit more. Ballard obviously doesn't have the speed, which is why it is easier for Safeties to cover both. Eli has just been THAT accurate that he could take advantage of the hesitation by the safeties.

Austin is a very good passrusher because of his 10 yard split, instantaneous punch, and pretty good use of hands. Losing any type of passrusher is bad, especially when we were working him in to replace Cofield in that aspect. Interior pressure is crucial to stopping the pass. Think about it, why were we so good at stopping Brady in the Superbowl? We used Tuck inside and blitzed the A gaps, Brady couldn't step into throws and they couldn't use their short pass game to supplement a run game.

Norv Turner has been a OC or offensive gameplanner in more than just SD. He got production out of TERRIBLE WR's (players he was signing off the streets) a good quarterback in Rivers (I still don't think he is as good as Manning) and average runningbacks as of late. (Tolbert and Matthews don't wow me) He is the real deal, and would be very good for an offense that has high caliber WR's , a very good quarterback, and struggling run game. (SD offensive line is nothing special).

Oakland was terrible overall, but their run game was good with Fargas during this period.

T2 isn't shutdown, but he creates turnovers. A defense that is based off of making stops by getting turnovers is why he is as crucial to us as Revis is to Rex Ryan's heavy man defense. We do need people to step up, but our defensive scheme isn't making it easy for plug and play and there is no team that suffers more injuries than us on a year to year basis. Medical staff needs to be fired, this theme cannot be blamed on just the players being injury prone.

Beatty is done imo. He hasn't shown that he is committed to the weightroom enough, he hasn't built up his upper body much since he was drafted and that is a big problem for a player that had a knock on him for not having a mean streak in the run game. I don't care if he has the best technique in the world, he hasn't been strong enough or as disciplined as he should be. He is not terrible, but he is not good. He is a clear lliability in the run game, and isn't strong enough to hold up against stronger passrushers.

Most teams run to the right, not just the Giants. If we run up the middle, which is basically all that Jacobs can do, we need a player at LT that can hold his own and more.

I disagree, we need a guy who can run block as well, Riley Reiff from Iowa is that kind of guy. The game starts in the trenches, no matter how much of a passing league it becomes, this will always be true.

BallinNY
12-25-2011, 12:38 PM
Hakeem Nicks is getting robbed, he gets interfered with nonstop.