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BlueBlitzer
02-02-2009, 10:47 PM
I'm going to repeat my answer from a few pages back....</P>


I don't care who is better! I like Eli. That's who I want as our QB. I'm tired of all of the comparisons. Just root for who you have, and stop lamenting "what could've been" b/c you'll never know what it would've been like with the others. </P>


(p.s. - how come there aren't any comparison threads with our other players?)</P>


Eli really is a likable kid, kinda nerdy but in a nice way, he's like the Anti-Brady.</P>


<FONT color=#0000ff>Why do so many still refer to Eli as "the kid"? He's entering his 6th year in the league. Must be the baby face.</FONT></P>

He's always the Kid Brother in the Manning family. Guess that's why.

Hard to believe he's in his 6th year already... [:|]

Yes it's time to stop calling him a young quarterback.
Eli is a Man's Man, you're just a Weenie's Weenie ( And you cry like Women )

LuckOfTuck
02-02-2009, 10:53 PM
I'm going to repeat my answer from a few pages back....</p>


I don't care who is better! I like Eli. That's who I want as our QB. I'm tired of all of the comparisons. Just root for who you have, and stop lamenting "what could've been" b/c you'll never know what it would've been like with the others. </p>


(p.s. - how come there aren't any comparison threads with our other players?)</p>


Eli really is a likable kid, kinda nerdy but in a nice way, he's like the Anti-Brady.</p>


<font color="#0000ff">Why do so many still refer to Eli as "the kid"? He's entering his 6th year in the league. Must be the baby face.</font></p>

He's always the Kid Brother in the Manning family. Guess that's why.

Hard to believe he's in his 6th year already... [:|]

Yes it's time to stop calling him a young quarterback.
Eli is a Man's Man, you're just a Weenie's Weenie ( And you cry like Women )
I don't see a need to insult me.

jesefina24
02-03-2009, 09:08 AM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]
</P>


</P>


</P>


Just DIE</P>

Harooni
02-03-2009, 11:39 AM
Both Qb's have clutchness
im curious to see which one has more career 4th Quarter comebacks. i think ben had 3 this season plus the SB and eli had 1 i think maybe 2. does anyone know where to look up that stat.

Harooni
02-03-2009, 11:39 AM
Both Qb's have clutchness
im curious to see which one has more career 4th Quarter comebacks. i think ben had 3 this season plus the SB and eli had 1 i think maybe 2. does anyone know where to look up that stat.

LT= Lawrence Taylor
02-03-2009, 11:47 AM
Both Qb's have clutchness
im curious to see which one has more career 4th Quarter comebacks. i think ben had 3 this season plus the SB and eli had 1 i think maybe 2. does anyone know where to look up that stat.




Ben has the most with like 17 or 18 in the reg season and 2 in the playoffs since 2004. I think Eli is up there with him, but I don't know for sure... I only know Ben's because they showed a graphic during the SB.

Bluedude2
02-03-2009, 11:54 AM
I'm going to repeat my answer from a few pages back....</P>


I don't care who is better! I like Eli. That's who I want as our QB. I'm tired of all of the comparisons. Just root for who you have, and stop lamenting "what could've been" b/c you'll never know what it would've been like with the others. </P>


(p.s. - how come there aren't any comparison threads with our other players?)</P>


Eli really is a likable kid, kinda nerdy but in a nice way, he's like the Anti-Brady.</P>


<FONT color=#0000ff>Why do so many still refer to Eli as "the kid"? He's entering his 6th year in the league. Must be the baby face.</FONT></P>

He's always the Kid Brother in the Manning family. Guess that's why.

Hard to believe he's in his 6th year already... [:|]

Yes it's time to stop calling him a young quarterback.
Eli is a Man's Man, you're just a Weenie's Weenie ( And you cry like Women )
I don't see a need to insult me.
I do you pathetic dweeb.

Harooni
02-03-2009, 11:54 AM
Both Qb's have clutchness
im curious to see which one has more career 4th Quarter comebacks. i think ben had 3 this season plus the SB and eli had 1 i think maybe 2. does anyone know where to look up that stat.




Ben has the most with like 17 or 18 in the reg season and 2 in the playoffs since 2004. I think Eli is up there with him, but I don't know for sure... I only know Ben's because they showed a graphic during the SB.


thanks i saw a site that said Eli had 14 reg season comebacks but not sure how old that is. i wonder where they keep these stats?

either way we should just all agree they are both good. who is better debate will go on forever. in 2004 Some said give it 2-3 years then we can judge, some later said 5 years now still debate. i think it will go on forever in history. lol

LT= Lawrence Taylor
02-03-2009, 12:02 PM
Both Qb's have clutchness
im curious to see which one has more career 4th Quarter comebacks. i think ben had 3 this season plus the SB and eli had 1 i think maybe 2. does anyone know where to look up that stat.




Ben has the most with like 17 or 18 in the reg season and 2 in the playoffs since 2004. I think Eli is up there with him, but I don't know for sure... I only know Ben's because they showed a graphic during the SB.


thanks i saw a site that said Eli had 14 reg season comebacks but not sure how old that is. i wonder where they keep these stats?

either way we should just all agree they are both good. who is better debate will go on forever. in 2004 Some said give it 2-3 years then we can judge, some later said 5 years now still debate. i think it will go on forever in history. lol


That was from Nov. 2008. I saw that stat on CBS Sports MB

So he has 14 through November

I count Carolina this year (15 in reg season)

Super Bowl 42 (16 total)

Not bad at all...

Harooni
02-03-2009, 12:09 PM
Both Qb's have clutchness
im curious to see which one has more career 4th Quarter comebacks. i think ben had 3 this season plus the SB and eli had 1 i think maybe 2. does anyone know where to look up that stat.




Ben has the most with like 17 or 18 in the reg season and 2 in the playoffs since 2004. I think Eli is up there with him, but I don't know for sure... I only know Ben's because they showed a graphic during the SB.


thanks i saw a site that said Eli had 14 reg season comebacks but not sure how old that is. i wonder where they keep these stats?

either way we should just all agree they are both good. who is better debate will go on forever. in 2004 Some said give it 2-3 years then we can judge, some later said 5 years now still debate. i think it will go on forever in history. lol


That was from Nov. 2008. I saw that stat on CBS Sports MB

So he has 14 through November

I count Carolina this year (15 in reg season)

Super Bowl 42 (16 total)

Not bad at all...



yeah its good thanks, Both very clutch indeed.

Bluedude2
02-03-2009, 12:13 PM
Benn has proven to be one of the best QBs in the game. We could win with him and that's obvious

LT= Lawrence Taylor
02-03-2009, 12:15 PM
Would the Green Bay playoff count as an Eli comeback? I know it's a stretch, but he was the QB for the final drive in OT even though we only gain 5 yards...

Harooni
02-03-2009, 12:16 PM
Benn has proven to be one of the best QBs in the game. We could win with him and that's obvious
oh my, I see a new sig quote coming!!!! i'm impressed. and a little shocked.

LT= Lawrence Taylor
02-03-2009, 12:16 PM
Benn has proven to be one of the best QBs in the game. We could win with him and that's obvious

I have Eli and Ben in my top 5.

Harooni
02-03-2009, 12:17 PM
Would the Green Bay playoff count as an Eli comeback? I know it's a stretch, but he was the QB for the final drive in OT even though we only gain 5 yards...

yeah it counts i think, carolina counts and Eli did not even complete a pass in OT that game.

Bluedude2
02-03-2009, 12:21 PM
The Eli and Benn debate may end up being equal to the Peyton andBrady debate. I'd take either one. Or anyone of the four. I'm certanily good with Eli as our QB.

LT= Lawrence Taylor
02-03-2009, 12:23 PM
Would the Green Bay playoff count as an Eli comeback? I know it's a stretch, but he was the QB for the final drive in OT even though we only gain 5 yards...

yeah it counts i think, carolina counts and Eli did not even complete a pass in OT that game.


LOL... right... but he did complete the 2 point conversion in the 4th and I think he had a couple of other good throws, so he did stuff to help GET the game to OT, he just didn't do anything IN OT

Harooni
02-03-2009, 12:28 PM
The Eli and Benn debate may end up being equal to the Peyton andBrady debate. I'd take either one. Or anyone of the four. I'm certanily good with Eli as our QB.
yeah i see what you are saying. Eli has actually improved in a lot of area's this season. int's down comp up. I just hope it continues. and yes i am thankful he does not suck like a brown or kannel. I only wish he could play better at home late in the season, now i know weather effects a qb but it should not effect him more than the opposing QB, he should have the edge imo.

Harooni
02-03-2009, 12:29 PM
Would the Green Bay playoff count as an Eli comeback? I know it's a stretch, but he was the QB for the final drive in OT even though we only gain 5 yards...

yeah it counts i think, carolina counts and Eli did not even complete a pass in OT that game.


LOL... right... but he did complete the 2 point conversion in the 4th and I think he had a couple of other good throws, so he did stuff to help GET the game to OT, he just didn't do anything IN OT

yes correct.

MattMeyerBud
02-03-2009, 12:44 PM
i hope this thread dies a painful death, im sick of seeing it bumped

LT= Lawrence Taylor
02-03-2009, 12:58 PM
i hope this thread dies a painful death, im sick of seeing it bumped

Says the poster who bumps the thread...

Oh, the irony! [:)]

bigblue4417
02-03-2009, 01:02 PM
i hope this thread dies a painful death, im sick of seeing it bumped

Says the poster who bumps the thread...

Oh, the irony! [:)]

I told you this would happen LT. Bad part is you cant really argue it. Ben has 8 postseason wins and 2 Superbowls in 4 years. Only Brady was better.

Harooni
02-03-2009, 01:05 PM
i hope this thread dies a painful death, im sick of seeing it bumped

Says the poster who bumps the thread...

Oh, the irony! [:)]

I told you this would happen LT. Bad part is you cant really argue it. Ben has 8 postseason wins and 2 Superbowls in 4 years. Only Brady was better.

lol , yeah but they try, I hear two ridculous ones, one was Eli does poorly at times on purpose as to not pass his brothers stats. and another one saying Eli is better than Montana was.

bigblue4417
02-03-2009, 01:08 PM
i hope this thread dies a painful death, im sick of seeing it bumped

Says the poster who bumps the thread...

Oh, the irony! [:)]

I told you this would happen LT. Bad part is you cant really argue it. Ben has 8 postseason wins and 2 Superbowls in 4 years. Only Brady was better.

lol , yeah but they try, I hear two ridculous ones, one was Eli does poorly at times on purpose as to not pass his brothers stats. and another one saying Eli is better than Montana was.

Are you kidding me? Those people should not reproduce. Until Eli wins another Superbowl there is no argument. Hopefully the Giants play the Steelers next year in the Superbowl but it is hard to get back.

tonyt830
02-03-2009, 01:08 PM
well leave it up to me to keep this thread going! Well Ben is Ben and Eli is Eli---who cares who we have. If the Cards had any better of a D, Ben would have been on his back or making bad decisions as usual. the man hold the ball too long which most of the time is not a good choice. They both have pro's and cons about them, thats life. We have Eli now, we have gotten to the playoffs with him and he contributed in our Superbowl victory last season. He also made an amazing play to escape the sack of the Pats and get the ball downfield to Tyree who made 1 of the best plays in superbowl history. I think Gilbride just needs to go or come up with a more run oriented game plan. I know he doesn't run, throw, catch or tackle---but his playcalling is questionable. You don't give up on our POWER run game that is averaging 4.5 to 5 yards per carry and have Eli throwing into the wind at the Meadowlands. By the way, didn't Ben have the second or third most sacks against him in the league this year?

LT= Lawrence Taylor
02-03-2009, 01:13 PM
i hope this thread dies a painful death, im sick of seeing it bumped

Says the poster who bumps the thread...

Oh, the irony! [:)]

I told you this would happen LT. Bad part is you cant really argue it. Ben has 8 postseason wins and 2 Superbowls in 4 years. Only Brady was better.


Yeah, that's true... all true...

bigblue4417
02-03-2009, 01:15 PM
Greatness in the NFL is judged by Superbowl wins.

LT= Lawrence Taylor
02-03-2009, 01:17 PM
Greatness in the NFL is judged by Superbowl wins.


Something tells me then that they'll be even. I see Eli winning 2 more and Ben possibly 1 or 2.

This is gonna be the NFL's Bird vs. Magic IMO...

MattMeyerBud
02-03-2009, 01:27 PM
i hope this thread dies a painful death, im sick of seeing it bumped

Says the poster who bumps the thread...

Oh, the irony! [:)]

I told you this would happen LT. Bad part is you cant really argue it. Ben has 8 postseason wins and 2 Superbowls in 4 years. Only Brady was better.

lol , yeah but they try, I hear two ridculous ones, one was Eli does poorly at times on purpose as to not pass his brothers stats. and another one saying Eli is better than Montana was.


eli is on pace to have a better career than montana.. not superbowl wise... but even that is possible

logan9839
02-03-2009, 01:35 PM
For those of you that are grinding your teeth wishing we had Ben, as he is perfect, read this link. Every QB needs great WRs and luck. Our issue was that without Plax, we just did not have the tools to go deep in the playoffs. I really hope that we find a good replacment, or Plax comes back with a new focus and attitude.</P>


</P>


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/super-bowl/02/02/bigben.letterman.ap/index.html</P>

ManningBowl
02-03-2009, 02:33 PM
Lawrence[/b] Taylor"]
i hope this thread dies a painful death, im sick of seeing it bumped

Says the poster who bumps the thread...

Oh, the irony! [:)]

I told you this would happen LT. Bad part is you cant really argue it. Ben has 8 postseason wins and 2 Superbowls in 4 years. Only Brady was better.

lol , yeah but they try, I hear two ridculous ones, one was Eli does poorly at times on purpose as to not pass his brothers stats. and another one saying Eli is better than Montana was.
<FONT size=5>eli</FONT> <FONT size=5>is</FONT> <FONT size=5>on</FONT> <FONT size=5>pace</FONT> <FONT size=5>to</FONT> <FONT size=5>have</FONT> <FONT size=5>a</FONT> <FONT size=5>better</FONT> <FONT size=5>career</FONT> <FONT size=5>than</FONT> <FONT size=5>montana</FONT>.. not superbowl wise... but even that is possible</P>


Quote of the year</P>


Montanna </P>


http://www.nfl.com/players/joemontana/careerstats?id=MON392207</P>


Eli</P>


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6760</P>


Not even close... Now your comparing Eli to 1 of the most prolific passers this league has ever seen not even comparing saying he'll better... This is the same guy who can't break 2oo measly passing yards in a gameand now he is going to be better then Montanna </P>


Shakes head</P>

LT= Lawrence Taylor
02-03-2009, 02:44 PM
Lawrence[/b] Taylor"]
i hope this thread dies a painful death, im sick of seeing it bumped

Says the poster who bumps the thread...

Oh, the irony! [:)]

I told you this would happen LT. Bad part is you cant really argue it. Ben has 8 postseason wins and 2 Superbowls in 4 years. Only Brady was better.

lol , yeah but they try, I hear two ridculous ones, one was Eli does poorly at times on purpose as to not pass his brothers stats. and another one saying Eli is better than Montana was.
<FONT size=5>eli</FONT> <FONT size=5>is</FONT> <FONT size=5>on</FONT> <FONT size=5>pace</FONT> <FONT size=5>to</FONT> <FONT size=5>have</FONT> <FONT size=5>a</FONT> <FONT size=5>better</FONT> <FONT size=5>career</FONT> <FONT size=5>than</FONT> <FONT size=5>montana</FONT>.. not superbowl wise... but even that is possible</P>


Quote of the year</P>


Montanna </P>


http://www.nfl.com/players/joemontana/careerstats?id=MON392207</P>


Eli</P>


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6760</P>


Not even close... Now your comparing Eli to 1 of the most prolific passers this league has ever seen not even comparing saying he'll better... This is the same guy who can't break 2oo measly passing yards in a gameand now he is going to be better then Montanna </P>


Shakes head</P>


</P>


Montana played 16 years in the NFL</P>


He had 273 TD, 193 INT, and 40,511 yards</P>


Eli currently has 98 TD, 74 INT, and 14,623 yards. If he plays 16 seasons at the rate he his he will finish with</P>


313 TD passes</P>


236 INT</P>


46,793 yards passing</P>


313 &gt; 273</P>


46,793 &gt; 40,511</P>


His INT, if he continues to keep them down, that number will be better</P>


Who knows if he goes on to win some more rings...</P>


Do the math before you try to argue this point</P>


Shakes head</P>


</P>

gumby742
02-03-2009, 03:18 PM
Funny how Eli supporters throw in stats only when it suits their argument but then yell, "Stats lie!" when it doesn't. </P>


The best Eli defense I've seen so far was by i forget but he essentially said: "I don't care if Ben is better then Eli or if everyone thinks Eli has problems. I'm going to support my QB no matter what happens, and no matter how much proof everyone else. I'm willing to turn a blind eye towards all of this because he is our QB. People might be right, but i don't care."</P>


If ur a blind supporter, there's nothing wrong with it. Just don't pretend to justify it with rediculous pretenses and skewed stats and facts.</P>

bigblue4417
02-03-2009, 03:29 PM
Lawrence[/b] Taylor"]
i hope this thread dies a painful death, im sick of seeing it bumped

Says the poster who bumps the thread...

Oh, the irony! [:)]

I told you this would happen LT. Bad part is you cant really argue it. Ben has 8 postseason wins and 2 Superbowls in 4 years. Only Brady was better.

lol , yeah but they try, I hear two ridculous ones, one was Eli does poorly at times on purpose as to not pass his brothers stats. and another one saying Eli is better than Montana was.
<font size="5">eli</font> <font size="5">is</font> <font size="5">on</font> <font size="5">pace</font> <font size="5">to</font> <font size="5">have</font> <font size="5">a</font> <font size="5">better</font> <font size="5">career</font> <font size="5">than</font> <font size="5">montana</font>.. not superbowl wise... but even that is possible</p>


Quote of the year</p>


Montanna </p>


http://www.nfl.com/players/joemontana/careerstats?id=MON392207</p>


Eli</p>


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6760</p>


Not even close... Now your comparing Eli to 1 of the most prolific passers this league has ever seen not even comparing saying he'll better... This is the same guy who can't break 2oo measly passing yards in a gameand now he is going to be better then Montanna </p>


Shakes head</p>


</p>


Montana played 16 years in the NFL</p>


He had 273 TD, 193 INT, and 40,511 yards</p>


Eli currently has 98 TD, 74 INT, and 14,623 yards. If he plays 16 seasons at the rate he his he will finish with</p>


313 TD passes</p>


236 INT</p>


46,793 yards passing</p>


313 &gt; 273</p>


46,793 &gt; 40,511</p>


His INT, if he continues to keep them down, that number will be better</p>


Who knows if he goes on to win some more rings...</p>


Do the math before you try to argue this point</p>


Shakes head</p>


</p>
http://www.nostarclothing.com/no_star/catalog/images/main/mw_booyah.gif

MattMeyerBud
02-03-2009, 03:32 PM
Lawrence[/b] Taylor"]
i hope this thread dies a painful death, im sick of seeing it bumped

Says the poster who bumps the thread...

Oh, the irony! [:)]

I told you this would happen LT. Bad part is you cant really argue it. Ben has 8 postseason wins and 2 Superbowls in 4 years. Only Brady was better.

lol , yeah but they try, I hear two ridculous ones, one was Eli does poorly at times on purpose as to not pass his brothers stats. and another one saying Eli is better than Montana was.
<FONT size=5>eli</FONT> <FONT size=5>is</FONT> <FONT size=5>on</FONT> <FONT size=5>pace</FONT> <FONT size=5>to</FONT> <FONT size=5>have</FONT> <FONT size=5>a</FONT> <FONT size=5>better</FONT> <FONT size=5>career</FONT> <FONT size=5>than</FONT> <FONT size=5>montana</FONT>.. not superbowl wise... but even that is possible</P>


Quote of the year</P>


Montanna </P>


http://www.nfl.com/players/joemontana/careerstats?id=MON392207</P>


Eli</P>


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6760</P>


Not even close... Now your comparing Eli to 1 of the most prolific passers this league has ever seen not even comparing saying he'll better... This is the same guy who can't break 2oo measly passing yards in a game*and now he is going to be better then Montanna </P>


Shakes head</P>

Montana after first 5 years: 11,979 yards and 78 tds

Eli after first 5 years 14,623 and 98 tds...

shake ur head and maybe it will help, but its simple addition

Bluedude2
02-03-2009, 03:33 PM
Funny how Eli supporters throw in stats only when it suits their argument but then yell, "Stats lie!" when it doesn't. </P>


The best Eli defense I've seen so far was by i forget but he essentially said: "I don't care if Ben is better then Eli or if everyone thinks Eli has problems. I'm going to support my QB no matter what happens, and no matter how much proof everyone else. I'm willing to turn a blind eye towards all of this because he is our QB. People might be right, but i don't care."</P>


If ur a blind supporter, there's nothing wrong with it. Just don't pretend to justify it with rediculous pretenses and skewed stats and facts.</P>How about I support Eli because he's proven good enough to win an SB and be MVP of the game? Do you respect that?

bigblue4417
02-03-2009, 03:33 PM
Lawrence[/b] Taylor"]
i hope this thread dies a painful death, im sick of seeing it bumped

Says the poster who bumps the thread...

Oh, the irony! [:)]

I told you this would happen LT. Bad part is you cant really argue it. Ben has 8 postseason wins and 2 Superbowls in 4 years. Only Brady was better.

lol , yeah but they try, I hear two ridculous ones, one was Eli does poorly at times on purpose as to not pass his brothers stats. and another one saying Eli is better than Montana was.
<font size="5">eli</font> <font size="5">is</font> <font size="5">on</font> <font size="5">pace</font> <font size="5">to</font> <font size="5">have</font> <font size="5">a</font> <font size="5">better</font> <font size="5">career</font> <font size="5">than</font> <font size="5">montana</font>.. not superbowl wise... but even that is possible</p>


Quote of the year</p>


Montanna </p>


http://www.nfl.com/players/joemontana/careerstats?id=MON392207</p>


Eli</p>


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6760</p>


Not even close... Now your comparing Eli to 1 of the most prolific passers this league has ever seen not even comparing saying he'll better... This is the same guy who can't break 2oo measly passing yards in a gameand now he is going to be better then Montanna </p>


Shakes head</p>

Montana after first 5 years: 11,979 yards and 78 tds

Eli after first 5 years 14,623 and 98 tds...

shake ur head and maybe it will help, but its simple addition
http://www.forumspile.com/Misc-OhSnap.jpg

MattMeyerBud
02-03-2009, 03:34 PM
Funny how Eli supporters throw in stats only when it suits their argument but then yell, "Stats lie!" when it doesn't.* </P>


The best Eli defense I've seen so far was by i forget but he essentially said:* "I don't care if Ben is better then Eli or if everyone thinks Eli has problems.* I'm going to support my QB no matter what happens, and no matter how much proof everyone else.* I'm willing to turn a blind eye towards all of this because he is our QB.* People might be right, but i don't care."</P>


If ur a blind supporter, there's nothing wrong with it.* Just don't pretend to justify it with rediculous pretenses and skewed stats and facts.</P>

well we agree that completion percentage is different, but when a guy plays the same amount of time like ben and eli have and ben has 3more tds and 300 more yards, thats not a big difference.

But when u compare Eli to montana and its 20 tds and 3000 yards, thats a difference

sharick88
02-03-2009, 03:35 PM
Funny how Eli supporters throw in stats only when it suits their argument but then yell, "Stats lie!" when it doesn't. </P>


The best Eli defense I've seen so far was by i forget but he essentially said: "I don't care if Ben is better then Eli or if everyone thinks Eli has problems. I'm going to support my QB no matter what happens, and no matter how much proof everyone else. I'm willing to turn a blind eye towards all of this because he is our QB. People might be right, but i don't care."</P>


If ur a blind supporter, there's nothing wrong with it. Just don't pretend to justify it with rediculous pretenses and skewed stats and facts.</P>


How about I support Eli because he's proven good enough to win an SB and be MVP of the game? Do you respect that?</P>


I know I do. These people that rip Eli on the regular are simply running out of material. Now they are simply repeating themselves over and over again.</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-03-2009, 03:41 PM
Funny how Eli supporters throw in stats only when it suits their argument but then yell, "Stats lie!" when it doesn't.* </P>


The best Eli defense I've seen so far was by i forget but he essentially said:* "I don't care if Ben is better then Eli or if everyone thinks Eli has problems.* I'm going to support my QB no matter what happens, and no matter how much proof everyone else.* I'm willing to turn a blind eye towards all of this because he is our QB.* People might be right, but i don't care."</P>


If ur a blind supporter, there's nothing wrong with it.* Just don't pretend to justify it with rediculous pretenses and skewed stats and facts.</P>


How about I support Eli because he's proven good enough to win an SB and be MVP of the game?* Do you respect that?</P>


I know I do. These people that rip Eli on the regular are simply running out of material. Now they are simply repeating themselves over and over again.</P>

the sad truth of it, Eli has had a better first 5 years than most HOF QBs... fact

Bleedin Blue Since '62
02-03-2009, 03:45 PM
Does it really <FONT color=#0000ff>matter</FONT> that Eli be declared better than Ben or Ben be declared better than Eli?</P>


Both are good. Both are winners. Both are Super Bowl winners. Who cares?</P>


Each team is fortunate with their QB sitaution. Enough already!</P>

EliBGold
02-03-2009, 03:50 PM
Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.
checkmate!!
</P>


This may be the dumbest point of them all. Ben has two very good receivers in Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes. When Plax went down our receivers became a very mediocre bunch. Tonight, Ben was very good, but I thought that the Steeler playcalling really helped him. Of his 21 completions, how many were little screen passes or to guys who were absolutely wide open? When was the last time you saw a Giant receiver as open as Hines Ward was on that first completion of the night? There was nobody within a 10 yard radius of him.</P>


</P>


In fact, PIT believed Ward to be the better of the two (btw Burress and Ward). That's why they kept Ward and not Burress. What a ridiculous point.</P>

gumby742
02-03-2009, 03:56 PM
Funny how Eli supporters throw in stats only when it suits their argument but then yell, "Stats lie!" when it doesn't. </P>


The best Eli defense I've seen so far was by i forget but he essentially said: "I don't care if Ben is better then Eli or if everyone thinks Eli has problems. I'm going to support my QB no matter what happens, and no matter how much proof everyone else. I'm willing to turn a blind eye towards all of this because he is our QB. People might be right, but i don't care."</P>


If ur a blind supporter, there's nothing wrong with it. Just don't pretend to justify it with rediculous pretenses and skewed stats and facts.</P>


How about I support Eli because he's proven good enough to win an SB and be MVP of the game? Do you respect that?</P>


It's one thing to support a QB for the sake of it. But it's another if you're making excuses, bending facts and stats every which way, to prove to the world that Eli doesn't have issues.</P>


We've shown we can win with Eli. However, it's arguable thatEli is not as good passer (not qb) as his peers. If people want to pick on his deficiencies then let them? It's not like they're completely bashing him on something rediculous.</P>


I'm confident that if you goto the Steeler forums and you make a post about how Ben has some serious problems with taking Sacks, there wouldn't be this huge uproar that we have with Eli. The difference is that most of the Pitts fans have faith and know that Ben is good so they dismiss the bad. If you're on the pro Eli side, that's great - why not do the same thing instead of making excuses and skewing things?</P>


Ignore it all and the "hate" as you all love to put it, will go away.</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-03-2009, 03:56 PM
Lawrence[/b] Taylor"]
i hope this thread dies a painful death, im sick of seeing it bumped

Says the poster who bumps the thread...

Oh, the irony! [:)]

I told you this would happen LT. Bad part is you cant really argue it. Ben has 8 postseason wins and 2 Superbowls in 4 years. Only Brady was better.

lol , yeah but they try, I hear two ridculous ones, one was Eli does poorly at times on purpose as to not pass his brothers stats. and another one saying Eli is better than Montana was.
<font size="5">eli</font> <font size="5">is</font> <font size="5">on</font> <font size="5">pace</font> <font size="5">to</font> <font size="5">have</font> <font size="5">a</font> <font size="5">better</font> <font size="5">career</font> <font size="5">than</font> <font size="5">montana</font>.. not superbowl wise... but even that is possible</p>


Quote of the year</p>


Montanna </p>


http://www.nfl.com/players/joemontana/careerstats?id=MON392207</p>


Eli</p>


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6760</p>


Not even close... Now your comparing Eli to 1 of the most prolific passers this league has ever seen not even comparing saying he'll better... This is the same guy who can't break 2oo measly passing yards in a game*and now he is going to be better then Montanna </p>


Shakes head</p>

Montana after first 5 years: 11,979 yards and 78 tds

Eli after first 5 years 14,623 and 98 tds...

shake ur head and maybe it will help, but its simple addition
http://www.forumspile.com/Misc-OhSnap.jpg


yea but manningbowl wont' respond, or if he does it will be off topic and he won't acknowledge that he was wrong... typical

MattMeyerBud
02-03-2009, 04:00 PM
Funny how Eli supporters throw in stats only when it suits their argument but then yell, "Stats lie!" when it doesn't.* </P>


The best Eli defense I've seen so far was by i forget but he essentially said:* "I don't care if Ben is better then Eli or if everyone thinks Eli has problems.* I'm going to support my QB no matter what happens, and no matter how much proof everyone else.* I'm willing to turn a blind eye towards all of this because he is our QB.* People might be right, but i don't care."</P>


If ur a blind supporter, there's nothing wrong with it.* Just don't pretend to justify it with rediculous pretenses and skewed stats and facts.</P>


How about I support Eli because he's proven good enough to win an SB and be MVP of the game?* Do you respect that?</P>


It's one thing to support a QB for the sake of it.* But it's another if you're making excuses, bending facts and stats every which way, to prove to the world that Eli doesn't have issues.</P>


We've shown we can win with Eli.* However, it's arguable that*Eli is not as good passer (not qb) as his peers.** If people want to pick on his deficiencies then let them?* It's not like they're completely bashing him on something rediculous.</P>


I'm confident that if you goto the Steeler forums and you make a post about how Ben has some serious problems with taking Sacks, there wouldn't be this huge uproar that we have with Eli.* The difference is that most of the Pitts fans have faith and know that Ben is good so they dismiss the bad.* If you're on the pro Eli side, that's great - why not do the same thing instead of making excuses and skewing things?</P>


Ignore it all and the "hate" as you all love to put it, will go away.</P>

How are we twisting stats? How this was all started was me saying that Eli is on pace to have better stats than Montana did..

What are the two major stats for QBs? I would say Yards and TDs.

Montana after first 5 years: 11,979 yards and 78 tds Eli after first 5 years 14,623 and 98 tds...

I don't really see whats being bended or twisted. Infact, i would have to say this isn't a case of Eli fans twisting stats, this is a case of eli haters hating and not acknowledging something that is plain as day and right in front of your faces.

And as for pitt fans having faith that ben is good... why don't u take a lesson from them then too.

But you are the one ignoring reality here.

n420p69
02-03-2009, 04:00 PM
So Giggles has wised up and is not using the clown picture again.

sharick88
02-03-2009, 04:03 PM
Funny how Eli supporters throw in stats only when it suits their argument but then yell, "Stats lie!" when it doesn't. </P>


The best Eli defense I've seen so far was by i forget but he essentially said: "I don't care if Ben is better then Eli or if everyone thinks Eli has problems. I'm going to support my QB no matter what happens, and no matter how much proof everyone else. I'm willing to turn a blind eye towards all of this because he is our QB. People might be right, but i don't care."</P>


If ur a blind supporter, there's nothing wrong with it. Just don't pretend to justify it with rediculous pretenses and skewed stats and facts.</P>


How about I support Eli because he's proven good enough to win an SB and be MVP of the game? Do you respect that?</P>


I know I do. These people that rip Eli on the regular are simply running out of material. Now they are simply repeating themselves over and over again.</P>


the sad truth of it, Eli has had a better first 5 years than most HOF QBs... fact</P>


Thats true in some cases. The rules were different back in the day, so you have to give the old schoolers the benefit of the doubt on that. Back then, a WR could get mauled and nothing would be called!! The point is that Eli is nowhere near as bad as these regular whiners make him out to be.</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-03-2009, 04:07 PM
Funny how Eli supporters throw in stats only when it suits their argument but then yell, "Stats lie!" when it doesn't.* </P>


The best Eli defense I've seen so far was by i forget but he essentially said:* "I don't care if Ben is better then Eli or if everyone thinks Eli has problems.* I'm going to support my QB no matter what happens, and no matter how much proof everyone else.* I'm willing to turn a blind eye towards all of this because he is our QB.* People might be right, but i don't care."</P>


If ur a blind supporter, there's nothing wrong with it.* Just don't pretend to justify it with rediculous pretenses and skewed stats and facts.</P>


How about I support Eli because he's proven good enough to win an SB and be MVP of the game?* Do you respect that?</P>


I know I do. These people that rip Eli on the regular are simply running out of material. Now they are simply repeating themselves over and over again.</P>


the sad truth of it, Eli has had a better first 5 years than most HOF QBs... fact</P>


Thats true in some cases. The rules were different back in the day, so you have to give the old schoolers the benefit of the doubt on that. Back then, a WR could get mauled and nothing would be called!! The point is that Eli is nowhere near as bad as these regular whiners make him out to be.</P>

exactly..

and heres one to really chap the arssse or the eli haters:

With one ring already and if he stays consistant with what hes been doing, hes a def hall of famer lol

bigblue4417
02-03-2009, 04:11 PM
Funny how Eli supporters throw in stats only when it suits their argument but then yell, "Stats lie!" when it doesn't. </p>


The best Eli defense I've seen so far was by i forget but he essentially said: "I don't care if Ben is better then Eli or if everyone thinks Eli has problems. I'm going to support my QB no matter what happens, and no matter how much proof everyone else. I'm willing to turn a blind eye towards all of this because he is our QB. People might be right, but i don't care."</p>


If ur a blind supporter, there's nothing wrong with it. Just don't pretend to justify it with rediculous pretenses and skewed stats and facts.</p>


How about I support Eli because he's proven good enough to win an SB and be MVP of the game? Do you respect that?</p>


I know I do. These people that rip Eli on the regular are simply running out of material. Now they are simply repeating themselves over and over again.</p>


the sad truth of it, Eli has had a better first 5 years than most HOF QBs... fact</p>


Thats true in some cases. The rules were different back in the day, so you have to give the old schoolers the benefit of the doubt on that. Back then, a WR could get mauled and nothing would be called!! The point is that Eli is nowhere near as bad as these regular whiners make him out to be.</p>

exactly..

and heres one to really chap the arssse or the eli haters:

With one ring already and if he stays consistant with what hes been doing, hes a def hall of famer lol
Would Harooni give his enshrinement speech?

bodsbymike
02-03-2009, 04:12 PM
I am not a Eli hater nor do I love everything about Eli. It seems to me that most posters either love or hate Eli. Eli HAS to get in the gym and get stronger. His vision has gotten sooo much better. He no longer keeps his eye on his 1st read from the time the ball is snapped until he releases it. ( I have every game ontape since beforeEli gothere, and I could tell you who he was going to throw it to 85% of the time his first couple of years.) He still has a fear of getting hit. No QB likes to get hit but Eli has a fear of it.(one of the main reasons he rarely tucks it and runs.) I truely believe that if he puts on a little muscle "not a lot" that will help some with that and also help with his wind issues. Not looking for an arguement just an observasion.

ManningBowl
02-03-2009, 04:13 PM
Funny how Eli supporters throw in stats only when it suits their argument but then yell, "Stats lie!" when it doesn't. </P>


The best Eli defense I've seen so far was by i forget but he essentially said: "I don't care if Ben is better then Eli or if everyone thinks Eli has problems. I'm going to support my QB no matter what happens, and no matter how much proof everyone else. I'm willing to turn a blind eye towards all of this because he is our QB. People might be right, but i don't care."</P>


If ur a blind supporter, there's nothing wrong with it. Just don't pretend to justify it with rediculous pretenses and skewed stats and facts.</P>


How about I support Eli because he's proven good enough to win an SB and be MVP of the game? Do you respect that?</P>


It's one thing to support a QB for the sake of it. But it's another if you're making excuses, bending facts and stats every which way, to prove to the world that Eli doesn't have issues.</P>


We've shown we can win with Eli. However, it's arguable thatEli is not as good passer (not qb) as his peers. If people want to pick on his deficiencies then let them? It's not like they're completely bashing him on something rediculous.</P>


I'm confident that if you goto the Steeler forums and you make a post about how Ben has some serious problems with taking Sacks, there wouldn't be this huge uproar that we have with Eli. The difference is that most of the Pitts fans have faith and know that Ben is good so they dismiss the bad. If you're on the pro Eli side, that's great - why not do the same thing instead of making excuses and skewing things?</P>


Ignore it all and the "hate" as you all love to put it, will go away.</P>


How are we twisting stats? How this was all started was me saying that Eli is on pace to have better stats than Montana did.. What are the two major stats for QBs? I would say Yards and TDs. Montana after first 5 years: 11,979 yards and 78 tds Eli after first 5 years 14,623 and 98 tds... I don't really see whats being bended or twisted. Infact, i would have to say this isn't a case of Eli fans twisting stats, this is a case of eli haters hating and not acknowledging something that is plain as day and right in front of your faces. And as for pitt fans having faith that ben is good... why don't u take a lesson from them then too. But you are the one ignoring reality here.</P>


Are you really this Dense? What part of less passing attempts to put up better production don't you get... Do I have to always spell it out for you... Ben has better numbers with over 3oo less attempts... What part of that escapes you?</P>


Big Ben has better numbers then Montana and Elway in his 1st 5 yrs does that make him better than those players? Get a friggengripman you sound rediculous trying to compare Eli the same guy who can't break 2oo yards with one of the most prolific passers this league has ever seen.. </P>


You show your lack of football knowledge by even mentioning Ben or Eli(of all people) in the same breath as Montana</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-03-2009, 04:14 PM
I am not a Eli hater nor do I love everything about Eli. It seems to me that most posters either love or hate Eli. Eli HAS to get in the gym and get stronger. His vision has gotten sooo much better. He no longer keeps his eye on his 1st read from the time the ball is snapped until he releases it. ( I have every game on*tape since before*Eli got*here, and I could tell you who he was going to throw it to 85% of the time his first couple of years.) He still has a fear of getting hit. No QB likes to get hit but Eli has a fear of it.(one of the main reasons he rarely tucks it and runs.) I truely believe that if he puts on a little muscle "not a lot" that will help some with that and also help with his wind issues. Not looking for an arguement just an observasion.*

You say he needs to get stronger? Okay.

But I would TOTALLY disagree wtih his fear of getting hit. Hes stayed in and taken his lumps ALOT on here.

sharick88
02-03-2009, 04:14 PM
Funny how Eli supporters throw in stats only when it suits their argument but then yell, "Stats lie!" when it doesn't. </P>


The best Eli defense I've seen so far was by i forget but he essentially said: "I don't care if Ben is better then Eli or if everyone thinks Eli has problems. I'm going to support my QB no matter what happens, and no matter how much proof everyone else. I'm willing to turn a blind eye towards all of this because he is our QB. People might be right, but i don't care."</P>


If ur a blind supporter, there's nothing wrong with it. Just don't pretend to justify it with rediculous pretenses and skewed stats and facts.</P>


How about I support Eli because he's proven good enough to win an SB and be MVP of the game? Do you respect that?</P>


I know I do. These people that rip Eli on the regular are simply running out of material. Now they are simply repeating themselves over and over again.</P>


the sad truth of it, Eli has had a better first 5 years than most HOF QBs... fact</P>


Thats true in some cases. The rules were different back in the day, so you have to give the old schoolers the benefit of the doubt on that. Back then, a WR could get mauled and nothing would be called!! The point is that Eli is nowhere near as bad as these regular whiners make him out to be.</P>


exactly.. and heres one to really chap the arssse or the eli haters: With one ring already and if he stays consistant with what hes been doing, hes a def hall of famer lol</P>


And WHEN we get us a couple of more rings, what will be their excuses then?</P>

dezzzR
02-03-2009, 04:16 PM
In the words of some of the posters who try to take away Eli's accomplishments in last years SB

The defense won this game. If Harrison doesn't get the 100 yard INT return at the end of the half, they don't win the game. Again, they won a SB with the refs in their back pocket and in spite of Ben.

Please, the refs didn't cost the Cardinals the game, their defense did. Again, this is making you look jealous.
</P>


im willing to take you to a game just to tar and feather you with fellow giant fans..........................</P>

LuckOfTuck
02-03-2009, 04:16 PM
Stop assuming that Eli will win another ring.

bansaw
02-03-2009, 04:18 PM
Stop assuming that Eli will win another ring.

why?

sharick88
02-03-2009, 04:18 PM
Stop assuming that Eli will win another ring.

</P>


STFU Giggles!!</P>

dezzzR
02-03-2009, 04:23 PM
I am not a Eli hater nor do I love everything about Eli. It seems to me that most posters either love or hate Eli. Eli HAS to get in the gym and get stronger. His vision has gotten sooo much better. He no longer keeps his eye on his 1st read from the time the ball is snapped until he releases it. ( I have every game ontape since beforeEli gothere, and I could tell you who he was going to throw it to 85% of the time his first couple of years.) He still has a fear of getting hit. No QB likes to get hit but Eli has a fear of it.(one of the main reasons he rarely tucks it and runs.) I truely believe that if he puts on a little muscle "not a lot" that will help some with that and also help with his wind issues. Not looking for an arguement just an observasion. You say he needs to get stronger? Okay. But I would TOTALLY disagree wtih his fear of getting hit. Hes stayed in and taken his lumps ALOT on here.</P>


</P>


lol i remember a few years back him getting demolished by a eagle lineman. he ran out of the pocket and just dropped to his kneesand lol, the look on his face before he was about to get wrecked was priceless. i felt bad for him. but he got back up</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-03-2009, 04:23 PM
Funny how Eli supporters throw in stats only when it suits their argument but then yell, "Stats lie!" when it doesn't.* </P>


The best Eli defense I've seen so far was by i forget but he essentially said:* "I don't care if Ben is better then Eli or if everyone thinks Eli has problems.* I'm going to support my QB no matter what happens, and no matter how much proof everyone else.* I'm willing to turn a blind eye towards all of this because he is our QB.* People might be right, but i don't care."</P>


If ur a blind supporter, there's nothing wrong with it.* Just don't pretend to justify it with rediculous pretenses and skewed stats and facts.</P>


How about I support Eli because he's proven good enough to win an SB and be MVP of the game?* Do you respect that?</P>


It's one thing to support a QB for the sake of it.* But it's another if you're making excuses, bending facts and stats every which way, to prove to the world that Eli doesn't have issues.</P>


We've shown we can win with Eli.* However, it's arguable that*Eli is not as good passer (not qb) as his peers.** If people want to pick on his deficiencies then let them?* It's not like they're completely bashing him on something rediculous.</P>


I'm confident that if you goto the Steeler forums and you make a post about how Ben has some serious problems with taking Sacks, there wouldn't be this huge uproar that we have with Eli.* The difference is that most of the Pitts fans have faith and know that Ben is good so they dismiss the bad.* If you're on the pro Eli side, that's great - why not do the same thing instead of making excuses and skewing things?</P>


Ignore it all and the "hate" as you all love to put it, will go away.</P>


How are we twisting stats? How this was all started was me saying that Eli is on pace to have better stats than Montana did.. What are the two major stats for QBs? I would say Yards and TDs. Montana after first 5 years: 11,979 yards and 78 tds Eli after first 5 years 14,623 and 98 tds... I don't really see whats being bended or twisted. Infact, i would have to say this isn't a case of Eli fans twisting stats, this is a case of eli haters hating and not acknowledging something that is plain as day and right in front of your faces. And as for pitt fans having faith that ben is good... why don't u take a lesson from them then too. But you are the one ignoring reality here.</P>


Are you really this Dense? What part of less passing attempts to put up better production don't you get... Do I have to always spell it out for you... Ben has better numbers with over 3oo less attempts... What part of that escapes you?</P>


Big Ben has better numbers then Montana and Elway in his 1st 5 yrs does that make him better than those players? Get a friggen*grip*man you sound rediculous trying to compare Eli the same guy who can't break 2oo yards with one of the most prolific passers this league has ever seen.. </P>


You show your lack of football knowledge by even mentioning Ben or Eli(of all people) in the same breath as Montana</P>

okay but u responded to my comment there princess, which is Eli is on pace to have better numbers than Montana.

After each players first 5 years, thast true.

You want to argue that with completion percentage? Okay, you have it. Montana was more accurate but at the end of the day, TDs and Yards are whats looked at.

All I said was Eli is on pace to have better numbers, ur the one flipping out and twisting the argument around. Maybe u need some prozac?

Your hatred for Eli really shows thru on this one there sweetness

dezzzR
02-03-2009, 04:24 PM
Stop assuming that Eli will win another ring.

</P>


can we ban this fukin tool?</P>

bigblue4417
02-03-2009, 04:26 PM
I am not a Eli hater nor do I love everything about Eli. It seems to me that most posters either love or hate Eli. Eli HAS to get in the gym and get stronger. His vision has gotten sooo much better. He no longer keeps his eye on his 1st read from the time the ball is snapped until he releases it. ( I have every game ontape since beforeEli gothere, and I could tell you who he was going to throw it to 85% of the time his first couple of years.) He still has a fear of getting hit. No QB likes to get hit but Eli has a fear of it.(one of the main reasons he rarely tucks it and runs.) I truely believe that if he puts on a little muscle "not a lot" that will help some with that and also help with his wind issues. Not looking for an arguement just an observasion. You say he needs to get stronger? Okay. But I would TOTALLY disagree wtih his fear of getting hit. Hes stayed in and taken his lumps ALOT on here.</p>


</p>


lol i remember a few years back him getting demolished by a eagle lineman. he ran out of the pocket and just dropped to his kneesand lol, the look on his face before he was about to get wrecked was priceless. i felt bad for him. but he got back up</p>
I will never forget this one either.

http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2004-09/14221236.jpg

romohater
02-03-2009, 04:26 PM
Stop assuming that Eli will win another ring.

</P>


Should we also stop assuming you're giggles?</P>

bigblue4417
02-03-2009, 04:28 PM
Stop assuming that Eli will win another ring.

</p>


Should we also stop assuming you're giggles?</p>
http://www.dutchblitz.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/200px-little_miss_giggles.jpg

bandwgn86
02-03-2009, 04:34 PM
Funny how Eli supporters throw in stats only when it suits their argument but then yell, "Stats lie!" when it doesn't. </P>


The best Eli defense I've seen so far was by i forget but he essentially said: "I don't care if Ben is better then Eli or if everyone thinks Eli has problems. I'm going to support my QB no matter what happens, and no matter how much proof everyone else. I'm willing to turn a blind eye towards all of this because he is our QB. People might be right, but i don't care."</P>


If ur a blind supporter, there's nothing wrong with it. Just don't pretend to justify it with rediculous pretenses and skewed stats and facts.</P>


How about I support Eli because he's proven good enough to win an SB and be MVP of the game? Do you respect that?</P>


It's one thing to support a QB for the sake of it. But it's another if you're making excuses, bending facts and stats every which way, to prove to the world that Eli doesn't have issues.</P>


We've shown we can win with Eli. However, it's arguable thatEli is not as good passer (not qb) as his peers. If people want to pick on his deficiencies then let them? It's not like they're completely bashing him on something rediculous.</P>


I'm confident that if you goto the Steeler forums and you make a post about how Ben has some serious problems with taking Sacks, there wouldn't be this huge uproar that we have with Eli. The difference is that most of the Pitts fans have faith and know that Ben is good so they dismiss the bad. If you're on the pro Eli side, that's great - why not do the same thing instead of making excuses and skewing things?</P>


Ignore it all and the "hate" as you all love to put it, will go away.</P>


How are we twisting stats? How this was all started was me saying that Eli is on pace to have better stats than Montana did.. What are the two major stats for QBs? I would say Yards and TDs. Montana after first 5 years: 11,979 yards and 78 tds Eli after first 5 years 14,623 and 98 tds... I don't really see whats being bended or twisted. Infact, i would have to say this isn't a case of Eli fans twisting stats, this is a case of eli haters hating and not acknowledging something that is plain as day and right in front of your faces. And as for pitt fans having faith that ben is good... why don't u take a lesson from them then too. But you are the one ignoring reality here.</P>


Are you really this Dense? What part of less passing attempts to put up better production don't you get... Do I have to always spell it out for you... Ben has better numbers with over 3oo less attempts... What part of that escapes you?</P>


Big Ben has better numbers then Montana and Elway in his 1st 5 yrs does that make him better than those players? Get a friggengripman you sound rediculous trying to compare Eli the same guy who can't break 2oo yards with one of the most prolific passers this league has ever seen.. </P>


You show your lack of football knowledge by even mentioning Ben or Eli(of all people) in the same breath as Montana</P>


okay but u responded to my comment there princess, which is Eli is on pace to have better numbers than Montana. After each players first 5 years, thast true. You want to argue that with completion percentage? Okay, you have it. Montana was more accurate but at the end of the day, TDs and Yards are whats looked at. All I said was Eli is on pace to have better numbers, ur the one flipping out and twisting the argument around. Maybe u need some prozac? Your hatred for Eli really shows thru on this one there sweetness</P>


anyone else agree that they really should find a better way of recording stats when it comes to QB's, even TD's and yards is not relaible enough..with so manyother playerscontributing to a QB's success its tough to put any stock into any single QB stat.. </P>

MattMeyerBud
02-03-2009, 04:35 PM
yea but if we're going to use stats to kill eli we'll use stats to help eli as well..

And i'd say Montana had alot more help with WRs than Eli had

LuckOfTuck
02-03-2009, 04:39 PM
Stop assuming that Eli will win another ring.

</p>


can we ban this fukin tool?</p>
What did I do wrong?

burier
02-03-2009, 04:43 PM
I believe that our WRs have a hard time getting separation. I can't be certain that's always the case as the TV cameras follow the ball. But I've watched plenty of football in my day and I've seen enough breakdown of our game film on various showsand the conclusion I come to is that Toomer as much as I love him stuggled to get open the last part of the season. Same goes for the Hixon and smith.</P>


As far as this Ben being better than Eli conversation. That's why this message board sucks. Because Giants fans are forced to argue with Giants fans about **** that doesn't matter. </P>


If you love Ben so much I'm sure there are online communities for jocking Big Ben. Eli is the Giants QB He marched us to the greatest upset or should I say string up upsets the sport has ever seen. </P>


Do you guys really understand the scope of what the Giants did last year with Eli at the helm????</P>


4 straight upsets, the greatest play in SB history as he kicked the stetson model in the nuts and took his lunch money infront of 100 million people. 18-1.</P>


Fast forward 12 months and we're debating about who's better than Eli. Why's it even matter? Football isn't about having the best player at every position . You need the right guys in the right spots to win. for the TEAM to win. Its not Eli Vs Ben in a tire contest. WE WON THE SUPERBOWL in a fashion that will not be topped in any of our life times. Wake up.</P>

bodsbymike
02-03-2009, 04:45 PM
I remember that one too. Lord I felt really bad for him. I believeEli isin the gym even as we speak. I thinkthe Eli haters are going to see a different guy next year.

LuckOfTuck
02-03-2009, 04:45 PM
It's the offseason. What's wrong with a little comparison?

bandwgn86
02-03-2009, 04:48 PM
yea but if we're going to use stats to kill eli we'll use stats to help eli as well.. And i'd say Montana had alot more help with WRs than Eli had</P>


thats a given and you could even bring up nicer weather...and no way am i getting in the middle of you and stooge boy's arguement. i was just hoping someone could lead me to a stat that shows accurately how good a QB really is or isn't... keep up the good fight..... </P>

bigblue4417
02-03-2009, 04:53 PM
Joe Montania

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qpj73xhGvmM

MattMeyerBud
02-03-2009, 05:03 PM
yea but if we're going to use stats to kill eli we'll use stats to help eli as well.. And i'd say Montana had alot more help with WRs than Eli had</P>


thats a given and you could even bring up nicer weather...and no way am i getting in the middle of you and stooge boy's arguement. i was just hoping someone could lead me to a stat that shows accurately how good a QB really is or isn't... keep up the good fight..... *</P>

haha there isn't..

i'll fight it til he truely lets me down lol

MattMeyerBud
02-03-2009, 05:04 PM
Stop assuming that Eli will win another ring.

</p>


can we ban this fukin tool?</p>
What did I do wrong?


u laugh tooo much...

or shall i say... giggle?

LuckOfTuck
02-03-2009, 05:05 PM
Stop assuming that Eli will win another ring.

</p>


can we ban this fukin tool?</p>
What did I do wrong?


u laugh tooo much...

or shall i say... giggle?
I thought it was good to laugh. It improves our health.

Delicreep
02-03-2009, 05:05 PM
I often feel I am in deep left field in these threads.

Let's agree, for the sake of argument, that Ben is better than Eli.

Where would one go from there? I mean, we know that Eli is capable of pulling his weight in a big game, and we know that Ben is.
We know that Eli is capable of NOT pulling his weight in a big game, and we know Ben is as well.

We know that the players on both teams have said that they are leaders, and that they trust them.

I'll submit that Romo is a better passer than either one, a better scrambler than Ben, and I will submit that he does not have what it takes to win that big game, nor is he a true leader on his team.

And he will never win the big one until he has those things

I used to use this comparison years and years ago...if I came into your room every day for a year and hit you with an aluminum baseball bat, and the next year, I started to hit you with a wooden baseball bat, you might actually prefer the "softness" of the wooden bat versus the aluminum bat.

That's an interesting comparison, but it really misses the point that they will both get the job done.

Eli took us there once, surround him with the right people*, he will do it again, and I am not saying we didn't have all the pieces in place this year.

PS Romo is a wiffle bat

MattMeyerBud
02-03-2009, 05:09 PM
Stop assuming that Eli will win another ring.

</p>


can we ban this fukin tool?</p>
What did I do wrong?


u laugh tooo much...

or shall i say... giggle?
I thought it was good to laugh. It improves our health.


lol don't u find it amazing that even when u don't put the clown avatar up people still know its you lol

LuckOfTuck
02-03-2009, 05:09 PM
No one is talking about Romo.

LuckOfTuck
02-03-2009, 05:10 PM
Stop assuming that Eli will win another ring.

</p>


can we ban this fukin tool?</p>
What did I do wrong?


u laugh tooo much...

or shall i say... giggle?
I thought it was good to laugh. It improves our health.


lol don't u find it amazing that even when u don't put the clown avatar up people still know its you lol
I don't know what you're talking about.

MattMeyerBud
02-03-2009, 05:11 PM
Stop assuming that Eli will win another ring.

</p>


can we ban this fukin tool?</p>
What did I do wrong?


u laugh tooo much...

or shall i say... giggle?
I thought it was good to laugh. It improves our health.


lol don't u find it amazing that even when u don't put the clown avatar up people still know its you lol
I don't know what you're talking about.


well there is suspicion that your a previous poster named giggles...

i'll play along tho, i didn't really mind giggles most of the time... i'd prefer him over manningbowl

LuckOfTuck
02-03-2009, 05:13 PM
Stop assuming that Eli will win another ring.

</p>


can we ban this fukin tool?</p>
What did I do wrong?


u laugh tooo much...

or shall i say... giggle?
I thought it was good to laugh. It improves our health.


lol don't u find it amazing that even when u don't put the clown avatar up people still know its you lol
I don't know what you're talking about.


well there is suspicion that your a previous poster named giggles...

i'll play along tho, i didn't really mind giggles most of the time... i'd prefer him over manningbowl
I am sure he is just a misunderstood person.

LT= Lawrence Taylor
02-03-2009, 05:16 PM
Stop assuming that Eli will win another ring.

</p>


can we ban this fukin tool?</p>
What did I do wrong?


u laugh tooo much...

or shall i say... giggle?
I thought it was good to laugh. It improves our health.


lol don't u find it amazing that even when u don't put the clown avatar up people still know its you lol
I don't know what you're talking about.


well there is suspicion that your a previous poster named giggles...

i'll play along tho, i didn't really mind giggles most of the time... i'd prefer him over manningbowl

Yeah, me too. I like how he never responded to my post when I showed mathematical evidence using proportions that Eli would have more yards and TD at the end of 16 years than Montana... you said he is ON PACE to have a better career, not that he will for sure.

Some people are thick... (not you though [:)])

LuckOfTuck
02-03-2009, 05:18 PM
Stop assuming that Eli will win another ring.

</p>


can we ban this fukin tool?</p>
What did I do wrong?


u laugh tooo much...

or shall i say... giggle?
I thought it was good to laugh. It improves our health.


lol don't u find it amazing that even when u don't put the clown avatar up people still know its you lol
I don't know what you're talking about.


well there is suspicion that your a previous poster named giggles...

i'll play along tho, i didn't really mind giggles most of the time... i'd prefer him over manningbowl

Yeah, me too. I like how he never responded to my post when I showed mathematical evidence using proportions that Eli would have more yards and TD at the end of 16 years than Montana... you said he is ON PACE to have a better career, not that he will for sure.

Some people are thick... (not you though [:)])

I didn't read that but if you seriously think that Eli is better than Montana you are deranged.

bigblue4417
02-03-2009, 05:18 PM
I often feel I am in deep left field in these threads.

Let's agree, for the sake of argument, that Ben is better than Eli.

Where would one go from there? I mean, we know that Eli is capable of pulling his weight in a big game, and we know that Ben is.
We know that Eli is capable of NOT pulling his weight in a big game, and we know Ben is as well.

We know that the players on both teams have said that they are leaders, and that they trust them.

I'll submit that Romo is a better passer than either one, a better scrambler than Ben, and I will submit that he does not have what it takes to win that big game, nor is he a true leader on his team.

And he will never win the big one until he has those things

<font color="#0000ff">I used to use this comparison years and years ago...if I came into your room every day for a year and hit you with an aluminum baseball bat, and the next year, I started to hit you with a wooden baseball bat, you might actually prefer the "softness" of the wooden bat versus the aluminum bat. </font>

That's an interesting comparison, but it really misses the point that they will both get the job done.

Eli took us there once, surround him with the right people*, he will do it again, and I am not saying we didn't have all the pieces in place this year.

PS Romo is a wiffle bat

That was brilliant.

bandwgn86
02-03-2009, 05:19 PM
Stop assuming that Eli will win another ring.

</P>


can we ban this fukin tool?</P>



What did I do wrong?
u laugh tooo much... or shall i say... giggle?
I thought it was good to laugh. It improves our health.
lol don't u find it amazing that even when u don't put the clown avatar up people still know its you lol
I don't know what you're talking about.
well there is suspicion that your a previous poster named giggles... i'll play along tho, i didn't really mind giggles most of the time... i'd prefer him over manningbowl</P>


i'd take 10 giggles over 1 manningbowl or 1 eli2plaxico or 1 giantswinalltime, but you're probablyright on him being giggles i remember someone telling him to change his name and gave him luck of tuck and kevin's boss as ideas. </P>

MattMeyerBud
02-03-2009, 05:21 PM
Stop assuming that Eli will win another ring.

</p>


can we ban this fukin tool?</p>
What did I do wrong?


u laugh tooo much...

or shall i say... giggle?
I thought it was good to laugh. It improves our health.


lol don't u find it amazing that even when u don't put the clown avatar up people still know its you lol
I don't know what you're talking about.


well there is suspicion that your a previous poster named giggles...

i'll play along tho, i didn't really mind giggles most of the time... i'd prefer him over manningbowl

Yeah, me too. I like how he never responded to my post when I showed mathematical evidence using proportions that Eli would have more yards and TD at the end of 16 years than Montana... you said he is ON PACE to have a better career, not that he will for sure.

Some people are thick... (not you though [:)])

I didn't read that but if you seriously think that Eli is better than Montana you are deranged.


and again, nobody said that.

Drew Bledsoe actually had a better career than Montana (just stat wise not superbowl) but nobody thinks hes better...

Manning ball just got his rhinestoned pink thong in a bunch

LT= Lawrence Taylor
02-03-2009, 05:23 PM
Stop assuming that Eli will win another ring.

</p>


can we ban this fukin tool?</p>
What did I do wrong?


u laugh tooo much...

or shall i say... giggle?
I thought it was good to laugh. It improves our health.


lol don't u find it amazing that even when u don't put the clown avatar up people still know its you lol
I don't know what you're talking about.


well there is suspicion that your a previous poster named giggles...

i'll play along tho, i didn't really mind giggles most of the time... i'd prefer him over manningbowl

Yeah, me too. I like how he never responded to my post when I showed mathematical evidence using proportions that Eli would have more yards and TD at the end of 16 years than Montana... you said he is ON PACE to have a better career, not that he will for sure.

Some people are thick... (not you though [:)])

I didn't read that but if you seriously think that Eli is better than Montana you are deranged.


Never said that he IS. I said he potentially could be at the rate he's going. I KNOW that Montana is the best. Best QB of all time. ManningBowl just scoffed at the idea, and I showed statistical evidence that there is a possibility. I'm not saying it's gonna happen for sure, but there's a chance.

MattMeyerBud
02-03-2009, 05:23 PM
Stop assuming that Eli will win another ring.

</p>


can we ban this fukin tool?</p>
What did I do wrong?


u laugh tooo much...

or shall i say... giggle?
I thought it was good to laugh. It improves our health.


lol don't u find it amazing that even when u don't put the clown avatar up people still know its you lol
I don't know what you're talking about.


well there is suspicion that your a previous poster named giggles...

i'll play along tho, i didn't really mind giggles most of the time... i'd prefer him over manningbowl
I am sure he is just a misunderstood person.


lol, well be that as it may hes def not the brightest bulb in the pack...

I gave him the advice months ago to stop making aliases with giggles in it and putting up clown pictures and he'd actually be able to hang around for more than a couple of hours..

I wonder if he ever listened to me

MattMeyerBud
02-03-2009, 05:24 PM
Stop assuming that Eli will win another ring.

</p>


can we ban this fukin tool?</p>
What did I do wrong?


u laugh tooo much...

or shall i say... giggle?
I thought it was good to laugh. It improves our health.


lol don't u find it amazing that even when u don't put the clown avatar up people still know its you lol
I don't know what you're talking about.


well there is suspicion that your a previous poster named giggles...

i'll play along tho, i didn't really mind giggles most of the time... i'd prefer him over manningbowl

Yeah, me too. I like how he never responded to my post when I showed mathematical evidence using proportions that Eli would have more yards and TD at the end of 16 years than Montana... you said he is ON PACE to have a better career, not that he will for sure.

Some people are thick... (not you though [:)])

I didn't read that but if you seriously think that Eli is better than Montana you are deranged.


Never said that he IS. I said he potentially could be at the rate he's going. I KNOW that Montana is the best. Best QB of all time. ManningBowl just scoffed at the idea, and I showed statistical evidence that there is a possibility. I'm not saying it's gonna happen for sure, but there's a chance.


unfortunately, Tom Brady will = greatest QB if he can come back

gumby742
02-03-2009, 05:27 PM
yea but if we're going to use stats to kill eli we'll use stats to help eli as well.. And i'd say Montana had alot more help with WRs than Eli had</P>


Go back and read every post going against Eli. The majority of then NEVER brought up stats first. It was always people who defending him. A typical post went like this:</P>


Hater: "Eli has issues because he isn't accurate."
Homer: "Oh yeah? How do you explain the 60% completion rate and the 20 TDs he had last year".</P>


Or even worse</P>


Homer: "What about his 200 QB rating and other stats in the playoffs last year?"</P>


And thus the stats debate starts. Pro Eli folk start most of this. So if anything, all the times where people said, "stats are misleading" in defense of Eli are full of it because they do nothing but use meaningless stats themselves to support their cause. </P>


You think you can sum up someone's play by saying 60% completion rate 20 TDs, 10 ints, and 3500 yards? Most stats lie. You've said it. I've said it. So how about we pick and choose which facts do matter and go from there? For one, comparing QBs from different eras is absolutely ******ed. </P>


Seriously, you want to do a best case comparison scenario for Eli, Ben, and Rivers? Take both of their top 2 years statistically. Take into account only the warm (good weather)or domegames and keep track of attempts, yards, TDs, ints, etc.Then compare. I've done a cursory glance out of curiousity in my spare time and let me tell you, Ben and Rivers blow Eli out of the water. Oh i know, the WRs get no separation, it was the co-ordinators fault because he didn't simplify the offense. Cry me a river. The excuses are really getting old. Eli is now in his prime going into his SIXTH year. If you want to say this, then no NFL QB in your book is a bad QB right? Every excuse applies to them just as much.</P>


Yes Matt. You are one of the most guilty when using useless stats as well starting the whole useless statistic debate when defending Eli.</P>

Morehead State
02-03-2009, 05:28 PM
I can understand the argument that Eli is better than Ben. (although I strongly disagree) but now he's Joe Montana?</P>


C'mon Matt.</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-03-2009, 05:30 PM
I can understand the argument that Eli is better than Ben.* (although I strongly disagree) but now he's Joe Montana?</P>


C'mon Matt.</P>

moorehead, please read all of the following posts, i ain't going full circle on this one lol

BigBlu397
02-03-2009, 05:31 PM
I dont think one is better than the other to be quite honest... Lets be realistic, the 1st superbow Ben won was not bc of him, he plan sucked his first superbowl win. This one, he put his team on his shoulders in the last 2 mins of the game and lead them to victory, just like Eli did last season. Both of them put up similar stats during the regular season, IMO, its still too early to tell which one is better.

bandwgn86
02-03-2009, 05:31 PM
yea but if we're going to use stats to kill eli we'll use stats to help eli as well.. And i'd say Montana had alot more help with WRs than Eli had</P>


Go back and read every post going against Eli. The majority of then NEVER brought up stats first. It was always people who defending him. A typical post went like this:</P>


Hater: "Eli has issues because he isn't accurate."
Homer: "Oh yeah? How do you explain the 60% completion rate and the 20 TDs he had last year".</P>


Or even worse</P>


Homer: "What about his 200 QB rating and other stats in the playoffs last year?"</P>


And thus the stats debate starts. Pro Eli folk start most of this. So if anything, all the times where people said, "stats are misleading" in defense of Eli are full of it because they do nothing but use meaningless stats themselves to support their cause. </P>


You think you can sum up someone's play by saying 60% completion rate 20 TDs, 10 ints, and 3500 yards? Most stats lie. You've said it. I've said it. So how about we pick and choose which facts do matter and go from there? For one, comparing QBs from different eras is absolutely ******ed. </P>


Seriously, you want to do a best case comparison scenario for Eli, Ben, and Rivers? Take both of their top 2 years statistically. Take into account only the warm (good weather)or domegames and keep track of attempts, yards, TDs, ints, etc.Then compare. I've done a cursory glance out of curiousity in my spare time and let me tell you, Ben and Rivers blow Eli out of the water.</P>


Yes Matt. You are one of the most guilty when using useless stats as well starting the whole useless statistic debate when defending Eli.</P>


</P>


i'd take giggles over him too....so basically what you are saying is the haters have no real evidence of Eli not being a good QB they just spew dribble outwhile the homers have stats to back them up... </P>

MattMeyerBud
02-03-2009, 05:31 PM
yea but if we're going to use stats to kill eli we'll use stats to help eli as well.. And i'd say Montana had alot more help with WRs than Eli had</P>


Go back and read every post going against Eli.* The majority of then NEVER brought up stats first.* It was always people who defending him.* A typical post went like this:</P>


Hater: "Eli has issues because he isn't accurate."
Homer: "Oh yeah?* How do you explain the 60% completion rate and the 20 TDs he had last year".</P>


Or even worse</P>


Homer: "What about his 200 QB rating and other stats in the playoffs last year?"</P>


And thus the stats debate starts.* Pro Eli folk start most of this.* So if anything, all the times where people said, "stats are misleading" in defense of Eli are full of it because they do nothing but use meaningless stats themselves to support their cause.* </P>


You think you can sum up someone's play by saying 60% completion rate 20 TDs, 10 ints, and 3500 yards?* Most stats lie.* You've said it.* I've said it.* So how about we pick and choose which facts do matter and go from there?* For one, comparing QBs from different eras is absolutely ******ed.* </P>


Seriously, you want to do a best case comparison scenario for Eli, Ben, and Rivers?* Take both of their top 2 years statistically.* Take into account only the warm (good weather)or dome*games and keep track of attempts, yards, TDs, ints, etc.**Then compare.* I've done a cursory glance out of curiousity in my spare time and let me tell you, Ben and Rivers blow Eli out of the water.* Oh i know, the WRs get no separation, it was the co-ordinators fault because he didn't simplify the offense.* Cry me a river.* The excuses are really getting old.* Eli is now in his prime going into his SIXTH year.* If you want to say this, then no NFL QB in your book is a bad QB right?* Every excuse applies to them just as much.</P>


Yes Matt.* You are one of the most guilty when using useless stats as well starting the whole useless statistic debate when defending Eli.</P>

your right, i guess i do use stats when having 4 winning seasons in a row, 4 playoff appearances in a row, a superbowl win, and superbowl mvp doesn't get the guy respect.

I would say look at the records and rings, but apparently that won't do the eli haters justice either

Delicreep
02-03-2009, 05:35 PM
yea but if we're going to use stats to kill eli we'll use stats to help eli as well.. And i'd say Montana had alot more help with WRs than Eli had</p>


Go back and read every post going against Eli. The majority of then NEVER brought up stats first. It was always people who defending him. A typical post went like this:</p>


Hater: "Eli has issues because he isn't accurate."
Homer: "Oh yeah? How do you explain the 60% completion rate and the 20 TDs he had last year".</p>


Or even worse</p>


Homer: "What about his 200 QB rating and other stats in the playoffs last year?"</p>


And thus the stats debate starts. Pro Eli folk start most of this. So if anything, all the times where people said, "stats are misleading" in defense of Eli are full of it because they do nothing but use meaningless stats themselves to support their cause. </p>


You think you can sum up someone's play by saying 60% completion rate 20 TDs, 10 ints, and 3500 yards? Most stats lie. You've said it. I've said it. So how about we pick and choose which facts do matter and go from there? For one, comparing QBs from different eras is absolutely ******ed. </p>


Seriously, you want to do a best case comparison scenario for Eli, Ben, and Rivers? Take both of their top 2 years statistically. Take into account only the warm (good weather)or domegames and keep track of attempts, yards, TDs, ints, etc.Then compare. I've done a cursory glance out of curiousity in my spare time and let me tell you, Ben and Rivers blow Eli out of the water.</p>


Yes Matt. You are one of the most guilty when using useless stats as well starting the whole useless statistic debate when defending Eli.</p>

Now this is just a random observation, but I would think that if a man who started his post off with how worthless stats are, he might not end it with a story about how he culled and reviewed comparable stats in his spare time.

But that's just me.

And exactly how do you want people who defend Eli to make their case? What I have been able to glean from your post is that it is a moving target, and you will never fail to discredit whatever points they bring up and move the goal line to fit your worldview.

Lay it out for us all, if you please.

Morehead State
02-03-2009, 05:38 PM
yea but if we're going to use stats to kill eli we'll use stats to help eli as well.. And i'd say Montana had alot more help with WRs than Eli had</P>


Go back and read every post going against Eli. The majority of then NEVER brought up stats first. It was always people who defending him. A typical post went like this:</P>


Hater: "Eli has issues because he isn't accurate."
Homer: "Oh yeah? How do you explain the 60% completion rate and the 20 TDs he had last year".</P>


Or even worse</P>


Homer: "What about his 200 QB rating and other stats in the playoffs last year?"</P>


And thus the stats debate starts. Pro Eli folk start most of this. So if anything, all the times where people said, "stats are misleading" in defense of Eli are full of it because they do nothing but use meaningless stats themselves to support their cause. </P>


You think you can sum up someone's play by saying 60% completion rate 20 TDs, 10 ints, and 3500 yards? Most stats lie. You've said it. I've said it. So how about we pick and choose which facts do matter and go from there? For one, comparing QBs from different eras is absolutely ******ed. </P>


Seriously, you want to do a best case comparison scenario for Eli, Ben, and Rivers? Take both of their top 2 years statistically. Take into account only the warm (good weather)or domegames and keep track of attempts, yards, TDs, ints, etc.Then compare. I've done a cursory glance out of curiousity in my spare time and let me tell you, Ben and Rivers blow Eli out of the water. Oh i know, the WRs get no separation, it was the co-ordinators fault because he didn't simplify the offense. Cry me a river. The excuses are really getting old. Eli is now in his prime going into his SIXTH year. If you want to say this, then no NFL QB in your book is a bad QB right? Every excuse applies to them just as much.</P>


Yes Matt. You are one of the most guilty when using useless stats as well starting the whole useless statistic debate when defending Eli.</P>


your right, i guess i do use stats when having 4 winning seasons in a row, 4 playoff appearances in a row, a superbowl win, and superbowl mvp doesn't get the guy respect. I would say look at the records and rings, but apparently that won't do the eli haters justice either</P>


06 was not a winning season.</P>


Eli deserves and gets plenty of respect. He's a very good player. After 5 years it seems that Ben is a bit better. He could conceivably be put in the same catagory as Peyton and Brady if he has a couple more outstanding seasons.</P>

Harooni
02-03-2009, 05:40 PM
I can understand the argument that Eli is better than Ben. (although I strongly disagree) but now he's Joe Montana?</p>


C'mon Matt.</p>

LOL

Harooni
02-03-2009, 05:41 PM
I can understand the argument that Eli is better than Ben. (although I strongly disagree) but now he's Joe Montana?</p>


C'mon Matt.</p>

LOL

bandwgn86
02-03-2009, 05:44 PM
yea but if we're going to use stats to kill eli we'll use stats to help eli as well.. And i'd say Montana had alot more help with WRs than Eli had</P>


Go back and read every post going against Eli. The majority of then NEVER brought up stats first. It was always people who defending him. A typical post went like this:</P>


Hater: "Eli has issues because he isn't accurate."
Homer: "Oh yeah? How do you explain the 60% completion rate and the 20 TDs he had last year".</P>


Or even worse</P>


Homer: "What about his 200 QB rating and other stats in the playoffs last year?"</P>


And thus the stats debate starts. Pro Eli folk start most of this. So if anything, all the times where people said, "stats are misleading" in defense of Eli are full of it because they do nothing but use meaningless stats themselves to support their cause. </P>


You think you can sum up someone's play by saying 60% completion rate 20 TDs, 10 ints, and 3500 yards? Most stats lie. You've said it. I've said it. So how about we pick and choose which facts do matter and go from there? For one, comparing QBs from different eras is absolutely ******ed. </P>


Seriously, you want to do a best case comparison scenario for Eli, Ben, and Rivers? Take both of their top 2 years statistically. Take into account only the warm (good weather)or domegames and keep track of attempts, yards, TDs, ints, etc.Then compare. I've done a cursory glance out of curiousity in my spare time and let me tell you, Ben and Rivers blow Eli out of the water. Oh i know, the WRs get no separation, it was the co-ordinators fault because he didn't simplify the offense. Cry me a river. The excuses are really getting old. Eli is now in his prime going into his SIXTH year. If you want to say this, then no NFL QB in your book is a bad QB right? Every excuse applies to them just as much.</P>


Yes Matt. You are one of the most guilty when using useless stats as well starting the whole useless statistic debate when defending Eli.</P>


your right, i guess i do use stats when having 4 winning seasons in a row, 4 playoff appearances in a row, a superbowl win, and superbowl mvp doesn't get the guy respect. I would say look at the records and rings, but apparently that won't do the eli haters justice either</P>


06 was not a winning season.</P>


Eli deserves and gets plenty of respect. He's a very good player. After 5 years it seems that Ben is a bit better. He could conceivably be put in the same catagory as Peyton and Brady if he has a couple more outstanding seasons.</P>


</P>


Ben definitely started out of the gates a little quicker, but i would say Ben has been inthe better of the 2 situations, why do you give the edge to Ben? </P>

MattMeyerBud
02-03-2009, 05:48 PM
yea but if we're going to use stats to kill eli we'll use stats to help eli as well.. And i'd say Montana had alot more help with WRs than Eli had</P>


Go back and read every post going against Eli.* The majority of then NEVER brought up stats first.* It was always people who defending him.* A typical post went like this:</P>


Hater: "Eli has issues because he isn't accurate."
Homer: "Oh yeah?* How do you explain the 60% completion rate and the 20 TDs he had last year".</P>


Or even worse</P>


Homer: "What about his 200 QB rating and other stats in the playoffs last year?"</P>


And thus the stats debate starts.* Pro Eli folk start most of this.* So if anything, all the times where people said, "stats are misleading" in defense of Eli are full of it because they do nothing but use meaningless stats themselves to support their cause.* </P>


You think you can sum up someone's play by saying 60% completion rate 20 TDs, 10 ints, and 3500 yards?* Most stats lie.* You've said it.* I've said it.* So how about we pick and choose which facts do matter and go from there?* For one, comparing QBs from different eras is absolutely ******ed.* </P>


Seriously, you want to do a best case comparison scenario for Eli, Ben, and Rivers?* Take both of their top 2 years statistically.* Take into account only the warm (good weather)or dome*games and keep track of attempts, yards, TDs, ints, etc.**Then compare.* I've done a cursory glance out of curiousity in my spare time and let me tell you, Ben and Rivers blow Eli out of the water.* Oh i know, the WRs get no separation, it was the co-ordinators fault because he didn't simplify the offense.* Cry me a river.* The excuses are really getting old.* Eli is now in his prime going into his SIXTH year.* If you want to say this, then no NFL QB in your book is a bad QB right?* Every excuse applies to them just as much.</P>


Yes Matt.* You are one of the most guilty when using useless stats as well starting the whole useless statistic debate when defending Eli.</P>


your right, i guess i do use stats when having 4 winning seasons in a row, 4 playoff appearances in a row, a superbowl win, and superbowl mvp doesn't get the guy respect. I would say look at the records and rings, but apparently that won't do the eli haters justice either</P>


06 was not a winning season.</P>


Eli deserves and gets plenty of respect.* He's a very good player.* After 5 years it seems that Ben is a bit better.* He could conceivably be put in the same catagory as Peyton and Brady if he has a couple more outstanding seasons.</P>

well whatever. I have already said at this point in their careers Ben is better.

Does that automatically mean he is gonna have the better career 10-12 years from now? No.

And like it can bother you when i say Eli has done more in his first 5 years than Montana did, but its not an opinion its a fact. Did i say that means hes gonna be better than Montana? no. Does he have a REALLY good chance to have better stats when its all said and done in a windy stadium and without arguably the best WR in the game? Yes.

I only bring it up because Eli gets smashed and compared to Trent Dilfer when hes had a better 5 years htan alot of HOF QBs had in their first 5 years. This includes big brother

MattMeyerBud
02-03-2009, 05:49 PM
yea but if we're going to use stats to kill eli we'll use stats to help eli as well.. And i'd say Montana had alot more help with WRs than Eli had</P>


Go back and read every post going against Eli.* The majority of then NEVER brought up stats first.* It was always people who defending him.* A typical post went like this:</P>


Hater: "Eli has issues because he isn't accurate."
Homer: "Oh yeah?* How do you explain the 60% completion rate and the 20 TDs he had last year".</P>


Or even worse</P>


Homer: "What about his 200 QB rating and other stats in the playoffs last year?"</P>


And thus the stats debate starts.* Pro Eli folk start most of this.* So if anything, all the times where people said, "stats are misleading" in defense of Eli are full of it because they do nothing but use meaningless stats themselves to support their cause.* </P>


You think you can sum up someone's play by saying 60% completion rate 20 TDs, 10 ints, and 3500 yards?* Most stats lie.* You've said it.* I've said it.* So how about we pick and choose which facts do matter and go from there?* For one, comparing QBs from different eras is absolutely ******ed.* </P>


Seriously, you want to do a best case comparison scenario for Eli, Ben, and Rivers?* Take both of their top 2 years statistically.* Take into account only the warm (good weather)or dome*games and keep track of attempts, yards, TDs, ints, etc.**Then compare.* I've done a cursory glance out of curiousity in my spare time and let me tell you, Ben and Rivers blow Eli out of the water.* Oh i know, the WRs get no separation, it was the co-ordinators fault because he didn't simplify the offense.* Cry me a river.* The excuses are really getting old.* Eli is now in his prime going into his SIXTH year.* If you want to say this, then no NFL QB in your book is a bad QB right?* Every excuse applies to them just as much.</P>


Yes Matt.* You are one of the most guilty when using useless stats as well starting the whole useless statistic debate when defending Eli.</P>


your right, i guess i do use stats when having 4 winning seasons in a row, 4 playoff appearances in a row, a superbowl win, and superbowl mvp doesn't get the guy respect. I would say look at the records and rings, but apparently that won't do the eli haters justice either</P>


06 was not a winning season.</P>


Eli deserves and gets plenty of respect.* He's a very good player.* After 5 years it seems that Ben is a bit better.* He could conceivably be put in the same catagory as Peyton and Brady if he has a couple more outstanding seasons.</P>


</P>


Ben definitely started out of the gates a little quicker, but i would say Ben has been in*the better of the 2 situations, why do you give the edge to Ben? </P>

i give the edge to ben cuz he has two rings and hes able to make plays with his feet

NoQuarter
02-03-2009, 05:53 PM
yea i know, takes ben 7 3/4 quarters in the superbowl to throw a TD pass, yet hes god I almost shot Tea out of my nose over this one!</P>


Good post[B]</P>

LT= Lawrence Taylor
02-03-2009, 05:53 PM
yea but if we're going to use stats to kill eli we'll use stats to help eli as well.. And i'd say Montana had alot more help with WRs than Eli had</p>


Go back and read every post going against Eli. The majority of then NEVER brought up stats first. It was always people who defending him. A typical post went like this:</p>


Hater: "Eli has issues because he isn't accurate."
Homer: "Oh yeah? How do you explain the 60% completion rate and the 20 TDs he had last year".</p>


Or even worse</p>


Homer: "What about his 200 QB rating and other stats in the playoffs last year?"</p>


And thus the stats debate starts. Pro Eli folk start most of this. So if anything, all the times where people said, "stats are misleading" in defense of Eli are full of it because they do nothing but use meaningless stats themselves to support their cause. </p>


You think you can sum up someone's play by saying 60% completion rate 20 TDs, 10 ints, and 3500 yards? Most stats lie. You've said it. I've said it. So how about we pick and choose which facts do matter and go from there? For one, comparing QBs from different eras is absolutely ******ed. </p>


Seriously, you want to do a best case comparison scenario for Eli, Ben, and Rivers? Take both of their top 2 years statistically. Take into account only the warm (good weather)or domegames and keep track of attempts, yards, TDs, ints, etc.Then compare. I've done a cursory glance out of curiousity in my spare time and let me tell you, Ben and Rivers blow Eli out of the water. Oh i know, the WRs get no separation, it was the co-ordinators fault because he didn't simplify the offense. Cry me a river. The excuses are really getting old. Eli is now in his prime going into his SIXTH year. If you want to say this, then no NFL QB in your book is a bad QB right? Every excuse applies to them just as much.</p>


Yes Matt. You are one of the most guilty when using useless stats as well starting the whole useless statistic debate when defending Eli.</p>


your right, i guess i do use stats when having 4 winning seasons in a row, 4 playoff appearances in a row, a superbowl win, and superbowl mvp doesn't get the guy respect. I would say look at the records and rings, but apparently that won't do the eli haters justice either</p>


06 was not a winning season.</p>


Eli deserves and gets plenty of respect. He's a very good player. After 5 years it seems that Ben is a bit better. He could conceivably be put in the same catagory as Peyton and Brady if he has a couple more outstanding seasons.</p>


</p>


Ben definitely started out of the gates a little quicker, but i would say Ben has been inthe better of the 2 situations, why do you give the edge to Ben? </p>

i give the edge to ben cuz he has two rings and hes able to make plays with his feet

And when Eli gets 2 rings and we say "Eli's great, he has 2 rings" the EMHA (Eli Manning Hating Association: brought to you by Haterade) will go "that's a team accomplishment he really sucks and you just don't see it" lol...

But yeah, Ben's got 2 rings= more postseason success. QB greatness is determined by what he does in playoffs and SB.

Final ring count will be even or very close.

LuckOfTuck
02-03-2009, 05:55 PM
yea but if we're going to use stats to kill eli we'll use stats to help eli as well.. And i'd say Montana had alot more help with WRs than Eli had</p>


Go back and read every post going against Eli. The majority of then NEVER brought up stats first. It was always people who defending him. A typical post went like this:</p>


Hater: "Eli has issues because he isn't accurate."
Homer: "Oh yeah? How do you explain the 60% completion rate and the 20 TDs he had last year".</p>


Or even worse</p>


Homer: "What about his 200 QB rating and other stats in the playoffs last year?"</p>


And thus the stats debate starts. Pro Eli folk start most of this. So if anything, all the times where people said, "stats are misleading" in defense of Eli are full of it because they do nothing but use meaningless stats themselves to support their cause. </p>


You think you can sum up someone's play by saying 60% completion rate 20 TDs, 10 ints, and 3500 yards? Most stats lie. You've said it. I've said it. So how about we pick and choose which facts do matter and go from there? For one, comparing QBs from different eras is absolutely ******ed. </p>


Seriously, you want to do a best case comparison scenario for Eli, Ben, and Rivers? Take both of their top 2 years statistically. Take into account only the warm (good weather)or domegames and keep track of attempts, yards, TDs, ints, etc.Then compare. I've done a cursory glance out of curiousity in my spare time and let me tell you, Ben and Rivers blow Eli out of the water. Oh i know, the WRs get no separation, it was the co-ordinators fault because he didn't simplify the offense. Cry me a river. The excuses are really getting old. Eli is now in his prime going into his SIXTH year. If you want to say this, then no NFL QB in your book is a bad QB right? Every excuse applies to them just as much.</p>


Yes Matt. You are one of the most guilty when using useless stats as well starting the whole useless statistic debate when defending Eli.</p>


your right, i guess i do use stats when having 4 winning seasons in a row, 4 playoff appearances in a row, a superbowl win, and superbowl mvp doesn't get the guy respect. I would say look at the records and rings, but apparently that won't do the eli haters justice either</p>


06 was not a winning season.</p>


Eli deserves and gets plenty of respect. He's a very good player. After 5 years it seems that Ben is a bit better. He could conceivably be put in the same catagory as Peyton and Brady if he has a couple more outstanding seasons.</p>


</p>


Ben definitely started out of the gates a little quicker, but i would say Ben has been inthe better of the 2 situations, why do you give the edge to Ben? </p>

i give the edge to ben cuz he has two rings and hes able to make plays with his feet

And when Eli gets 2 rings and we say "Eli's great, he has 2 rings" the EMHA (Eli Manning Hating Association: brought to you by Haterade) will go "that's a team accomplishment he really sucks and you just don't see it" lol...

But yeah, Ben's got 2 rings= more postseason success. QB greatness is determined by what he does in playoffs and SB.

Final ring count will be even or very close.

No Giants fan wants to see Eli fail.

gumby742
02-03-2009, 05:56 PM
yea but if we're going to use stats to kill eli we'll use stats to help eli as well.. And i'd say Montana had alot more help with WRs than Eli had</P>


Go back and read every post going against Eli. The majority of then NEVER brought up stats first. It was always people who defending him. A typical post went like this:</P>


Hater: "Eli has issues because he isn't accurate."
Homer: "Oh yeah? How do you explain the 60% completion rate and the 20 TDs he had last year".</P>


Or even worse</P>


Homer: "What about his 200 QB rating and other stats in the playoffs last year?"</P>


And thus the stats debate starts. Pro Eli folk start most of this. So if anything, all the times where people said, "stats are misleading" in defense of Eli are full of it because they do nothing but use meaningless stats themselves to support their cause. </P>


You think you can sum up someone's play by saying 60% completion rate 20 TDs, 10 ints, and 3500 yards? Most stats lie. You've said it. I've said it. So how about we pick and choose which facts do matter and go from there? For one, comparing QBs from different eras is absolutely ******ed. </P>


Seriously, you want to do a best case comparison scenario for Eli, Ben, and Rivers? Take both of their top 2 years statistically. Take into account only the warm (good weather)or domegames and keep track of attempts, yards, TDs, ints, etc.Then compare. I've done a cursory glance out of curiousity in my spare time and let me tell you, Ben and Rivers blow Eli out of the water.</P>


Yes Matt. You are one of the most guilty when using useless stats as well starting the whole useless statistic debate when defending Eli.</P>




Now this is just a random observation, but I would think that if a man who started his post off with how worthless stats are, he might not end it with a story about how he culled and reviewed comparable stats in his spare time.

But that's just me.

And exactly how do you want people who defend Eli to make their case? What I have been able to glean from your post is that it is a moving target, and you will never fail to discredit whatever points they bring up and move the goal line to fit your worldview.

Lay it out for us all, if you please.
</P>


Well, i know that what ijust wrote was a lot to read. but i said "most" stats lie. some are better indicators then others and it's impossible to get an actual controlled environment to base any of this comparison from. But if you wanted to get stats, let's at least control the environment to as much as we can right? Taking stats off of an almanac(spelling) means nothing.</P>


Honestly, I don't know how they can defend Eli. Come up with a better statistical example I guess. The 'haters' really don't say a whole lot. They just say Eli is inaccurate. That's a very general statement not exactly a sin. It's just the stats the eli defenders use in response that mean nothing. </P>


If someone could actually come up with a decent comparison in a controlled, constrained environment between the QBs, that would be much more valid. But that'll take some time to compile spreadsheets of game data for only certain games, etc, and I'm sure most of us have better things to do. The closest thing I've seen to any of this is that "Eli has a 95 passer rating (whatever that means) in domes or warm weather .. i forget" which indicates that playing in Giants stadium could be a huge factor in his stats. That's fine, but what about his peers? How do they perform in domes? Show me that Eli out performs his peers relative to his peers and I think that's a good example.</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-03-2009, 05:58 PM
i agree gi... i mean luckoftuck...

but thats where I get confused. Because there are some people on here that claim to be giant fans, but definitly don't want to see him succeed. So either waht u said isn't true or they aren't giant fans

LT= Lawrence Taylor
02-03-2009, 05:59 PM
yea i know, takes ben 7 3/4 quarters in the superbowl to throw a TD pass, yet hes god I almost shot Tea out of my nose over this one!</p>


Good post[B]</p>

LOL

<font color="#ff0000">But it took Eli 3, so that means he sucks and he's just an average QB. Ben had a bad SB in his second year because it was that: his second year. He was nervous. With all picks and money we gave up for Eli, he should have been God in his second year, not 8-8 on a team with no defense. And don't use that no defense as an excuse! Eli coulda played better than he did. He sucks. You blind lover fools just don't see it</font>

MattMeyerBud
02-03-2009, 06:01 PM
yea but if we're going to use stats to kill eli we'll use stats to help eli as well.. And i'd say Montana had alot more help with WRs than Eli had</P>


Go back and read every post going against Eli.* The majority of then NEVER brought up stats first.* It was always people who defending him.* A typical post went like this:</P>


Hater: "Eli has issues because he isn't accurate."
Homer: "Oh yeah?* How do you explain the 60% completion rate and the 20 TDs he had last year".</P>


Or even worse</P>


Homer: "What about his 200 QB rating and other stats in the playoffs last year?"</P>


And thus the stats debate starts.* Pro Eli folk start most of this.* So if anything, all the times where people said, "stats are misleading" in defense of Eli are full of it because they do nothing but use meaningless stats themselves to support their cause.* </P>


You think you can sum up someone's play by saying 60% completion rate 20 TDs, 10 ints, and 3500 yards?* Most stats lie.* You've said it.* I've said it.* So how about we pick and choose which facts do matter and go from there?* For one, comparing QBs from different eras is absolutely ******ed.* </P>


Seriously, you want to do a best case comparison scenario for Eli, Ben, and Rivers?* Take both of their top 2 years statistically.* Take into account only the warm (good weather)or dome*games and keep track of attempts, yards, TDs, ints, etc.**Then compare.* I've done a cursory glance out of curiousity in my spare time and let me tell you, Ben and Rivers blow Eli out of the water.</P>


Yes Matt.* You are one of the most guilty when using useless stats as well starting the whole useless statistic debate when defending Eli.</P>




Now this is just a random observation, but I would think that if* a man who started his post off with how worthless stats are, he might not end it with a story about how he culled and reviewed comparable stats in his spare time.

But that's just me.

And exactly how do you want people who defend Eli to make their case?* What I have been able to glean from your post is that it is a moving target, and you will never fail to discredit whatever points they bring up and move the goal line to fit your worldview.

Lay it out for us all, if you please.
</P>


Well, i know that what ijust wrote was a lot to read.* but i said "most" stats lie.* some are better indicators then others and it's impossible to get an actual controlled environment to base any of this comparison from.* But if you wanted to get stats, let's at least control the environment to as much as we can right?* Taking stats off of an almanac(spelling) means nothing.</P>


Honestly, I don't know how they can defend Eli.* Come up with a better statistical example I guess.* The 'haters' really don't say a whole lot.* They just say Eli is inaccurate.* That's a very general statement not exactly a sin.* It's just the stats the eli defenders use in response that mean nothing.* </P>


If someone could actually come up with a decent comparison in a controlled, constrained environment between the QBs, that would be much more valid.* But that'll take some time to compile spreadsheets of game data for only certain games, etc, and I'm sure most of us have better things to do.* The closest thing I've seen to any of this is that "Eli has a 95 passer rating (whatever that means) in domes or warm weather .. i forget"* which indicates that playing in Giants stadium could be a huge factor in his stats.* That's fine, but what about his peers?* How do they perform in domes?* Show me that Eli out performs his peers relative to his peers and I think that's a good example.</P>

well mcnabb had 55% completion percentage and 200 yards on 40 attempts along with two picks but yet he gets praised by the eli haters for the playoff game

gumby742
02-03-2009, 06:02 PM
yea but if we're going to use stats to kill eli we'll use stats to help eli as well.. And i'd say Montana had alot more help with WRs than Eli had</P>


Go back and read every post going against Eli. The majority of then NEVER brought up stats first. It was always people who defending him. A typical post went like this:</P>


Hater: "Eli has issues because he isn't accurate."
Homer: "Oh yeah? How do you explain the 60% completion rate and the 20 TDs he had last year".</P>


Or even worse</P>


Homer: "What about his 200 QB rating and other stats in the playoffs last year?"</P>


And thus the stats debate starts. Pro Eli folk start most of this. So if anything, all the times where people said, "stats are misleading" in defense of Eli are full of it because they do nothing but use meaningless stats themselves to support their cause. </P>


You think you can sum up someone's play by saying 60% completion rate 20 TDs, 10 ints, and 3500 yards? Most stats lie. You've said it. I've said it. So how about we pick and choose which facts do matter and go from there? For one, comparing QBs from different eras is absolutely ******ed. </P>


Seriously, you want to do a best case comparison scenario for Eli, Ben, and Rivers? Take both of their top 2 years statistically. Take into account only the warm (good weather)or domegames and keep track of attempts, yards, TDs, ints, etc.Then compare. I've done a cursory glance out of curiousity in my spare time and let me tell you, Ben and Rivers blow Eli out of the water. Oh i know, the WRs get no separation, it was the co-ordinators fault because he didn't simplify the offense. Cry me a river. The excuses are really getting old. Eli is now in his prime going into his SIXTH year. If you want to say this, then no NFL QB in your book is a bad QB right? Every excuse applies to them just as much.</P>


Yes Matt. You are one of the most guilty when using useless stats as well starting the whole useless statistic debate when defending Eli.</P>


your right, i guess i do use stats when having 4 winning seasons in a row, 4 playoff appearances in a row, a superbowl win, and superbowl mvp doesn't get the guy respect. I would say look at the records and rings, but apparently that won't do the eli haters justice either</P>


06 was not a winning season.</P>


Eli deserves and gets plenty of respect. He's a very good player. After 5 years it seems that Ben is a bit better. He could conceivably be put in the same catagory as Peyton and Brady if he has a couple more outstanding seasons.</P>


</P>


Ben definitely started out of the gates a little quicker, but i would say Ben has been inthe better of the 2 situations, why do you give the edge to Ben? </P>


i give the edge to ben cuz he has two rings and hes able to make plays with his feet</P>


You forgot the most important thing. Ben is accurate.</P>

BavaroLT86
02-03-2009, 06:02 PM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]
</P>


dont be a dope</P>


http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/61245/thumbs/s-PHELPS-BONG-large.jpg</P>

LT= Lawrence Taylor
02-03-2009, 06:03 PM
i agree gi... i mean luckoftuck...

but thats where I get confused. Because there are some people on here that claim to be giant fans, but definitly don't want to see him succeed. So either waht u said isn't true or they aren't giant fans

Yup

LuckOfTuck
02-03-2009, 06:03 PM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]
</p>


dont be a dope</p>


http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/61245/thumbs/s-PHELPS-BONG-large.jpg</p>
I'm not being one.

MattMeyerBud
02-03-2009, 06:05 PM
yea but if we're going to use stats to kill eli we'll use stats to help eli as well.. And i'd say Montana had alot more help with WRs than Eli had</P>


Go back and read every post going against Eli.* The majority of then NEVER brought up stats first.* It was always people who defending him.* A typical post went like this:</P>


Hater: "Eli has issues because he isn't accurate."
Homer: "Oh yeah?* How do you explain the 60% completion rate and the 20 TDs he had last year".</P>


Or even worse</P>


Homer: "What about his 200 QB rating and other stats in the playoffs last year?"</P>


And thus the stats debate starts.* Pro Eli folk start most of this.* So if anything, all the times where people said, "stats are misleading" in defense of Eli are full of it because they do nothing but use meaningless stats themselves to support their cause.* </P>


You think you can sum up someone's play by saying 60% completion rate 20 TDs, 10 ints, and 3500 yards?* Most stats lie.* You've said it.* I've said it.* So how about we pick and choose which facts do matter and go from there?* For one, comparing QBs from different eras is absolutely ******ed.* </P>


Seriously, you want to do a best case comparison scenario for Eli, Ben, and Rivers?* Take both of their top 2 years statistically.* Take into account only the warm (good weather)or dome*games and keep track of attempts, yards, TDs, ints, etc.**Then compare.* I've done a cursory glance out of curiousity in my spare time and let me tell you, Ben and Rivers blow Eli out of the water.* Oh i know, the WRs get no separation, it was the co-ordinators fault because he didn't simplify the offense.* Cry me a river.* The excuses are really getting old.* Eli is now in his prime going into his SIXTH year.* If you want to say this, then no NFL QB in your book is a bad QB right?* Every excuse applies to them just as much.</P>


Yes Matt.* You are one of the most guilty when using useless stats as well starting the whole useless statistic debate when defending Eli.</P>


your right, i guess i do use stats when having 4 winning seasons in a row, 4 playoff appearances in a row, a superbowl win, and superbowl mvp doesn't get the guy respect. I would say look at the records and rings, but apparently that won't do the eli haters justice either</P>


06 was not a winning season.</P>


Eli deserves and gets plenty of respect.* He's a very good player.* After 5 years it seems that Ben is a bit better.* He could conceivably be put in the same catagory as Peyton and Brady if he has a couple more outstanding seasons.</P>


</P>


Ben definitely started out of the gates a little quicker, but i would say Ben has been in*the better of the 2 situations, why do you give the edge to Ben? </P>


i give the edge to ben cuz he has two rings and hes able to make plays with his feet</P>


You forgot the most important thing.* Ben is accurate.</P>

yea he is more accurate than eli...

but eli also won't live and die by holding the ball too long

which will prolly give us extra seasons with eli while ben packs it in early.

but like i said before, elis accuracy issues are over dramatized. Hes not the most accurate QB in the league, but u guys really take it to another level

MattMeyerBud
02-03-2009, 06:06 PM
yea but if we're going to use stats to kill eli we'll use stats to help eli as well.. And i'd say Montana had alot more help with WRs than Eli had</P>


Go back and read every post going against Eli.* The majority of then NEVER brought up stats first.* It was always people who defending him.* A typical post went like this:</P>


Hater: "Eli has issues because he isn't accurate."
Homer: "Oh yeah?* How do you explain the 60% completion rate and the 20 TDs he had last year".</P>


Or even worse</P>


Homer: "What about his 200 QB rating and other stats in the playoffs last year?"</P>


And thus the stats debate starts.* Pro Eli folk start most of this.* So if anything, all the times where people said, "stats are misleading" in defense of Eli are full of it because they do nothing but use meaningless stats themselves to support their cause.* </P>


You think you can sum up someone's play by saying 60% completion rate 20 TDs, 10 ints, and 3500 yards?* Most stats lie.* You've said it.* I've said it.* So how about we pick and choose which facts do matter and go from there?* For one, comparing QBs from different eras is absolutely ******ed.* </P>


Seriously, you want to do a best case comparison scenario for Eli, Ben, and Rivers?* Take both of their top 2 years statistically.* Take into account only the warm (good weather)or dome*games and keep track of attempts, yards, TDs, ints, etc.**Then compare.* I've done a cursory glance out of curiousity in my spare time and let me tell you, Ben and Rivers blow Eli out of the water.* Oh i know, the WRs get no separation, it was the co-ordinators fault because he didn't simplify the offense.* Cry me a river.* The excuses are really getting old.* Eli is now in his prime going into his SIXTH year.* If you want to say this, then no NFL QB in your book is a bad QB right?* Every excuse applies to them just as much.</P>


Yes Matt.* You are one of the most guilty when using useless stats as well starting the whole useless statistic debate when defending Eli.</P>


your right, i guess i do use stats when having 4 winning seasons in a row, 4 playoff appearances in a row, a superbowl win, and superbowl mvp doesn't get the guy respect. I would say look at the records and rings, but apparently that won't do the eli haters justice either</P>


06 was not a winning season.</P>


Eli deserves and gets plenty of respect.* He's a very good player.* After 5 years it seems that Ben is a bit better.* He could conceivably be put in the same catagory as Peyton and Brady if he has a couple more outstanding seasons.</P>


</P>


Ben definitely started out of the gates a little quicker, but i would say Ben has been in*the better of the 2 situations, why do you give the edge to Ben? </P>


i give the edge to ben cuz he has two rings and hes able to make plays with his feet</P>


You forgot the most important thing.* Ben is accurate.</P>

yea he is more accurate than eli...

but eli also won't live and die by holding the ball too long

which will prolly give us extra seasons with eli while ben packs it in early.

but like i said before, elis accuracy issues are over dramatized. Hes not the most accurate QB in the league, but u guys really take it to another level

gumby742
02-03-2009, 06:06 PM
yea but if we're going to use stats to kill eli we'll use stats to help eli as well.. And i'd say Montana had alot more help with WRs than Eli had</P>


Go back and read every post going against Eli. The majority of then NEVER brought up stats first. It was always people who defending him. A typical post went like this:</P>


Hater: "Eli has issues because he isn't accurate."
Homer: "Oh yeah? How do you explain the 60% completion rate and the 20 TDs he had last year".</P>


Or even worse</P>


Homer: "What about his 200 QB rating and other stats in the playoffs last year?"</P>


And thus the stats debate starts. Pro Eli folk start most of this. So if anything, all the times where people said, "stats are misleading" in defense of Eli are full of it because they do nothing but use meaningless stats themselves to support their cause. </P>


You think you can sum up someone's play by saying 60% completion rate 20 TDs, 10 ints, and 3500 yards? Most stats lie. You've said it. I've said it. So how about we pick and choose which facts do matter and go from there? For one, comparing QBs from different eras is absolutely ******ed. </P>


Seriously, you want to do a best case comparison scenario for Eli, Ben, and Rivers? Take both of their top 2 years statistically. Take into account only the warm (good weather)or domegames and keep track of attempts, yards, TDs, ints, etc.Then compare. I've done a cursory glance out of curiousity in my spare time and let me tell you, Ben and Rivers blow Eli out of the water.</P>


Yes Matt. You are one of the most guilty when using useless stats as well starting the whole useless statistic debate when defending Eli.</P>




Now this is just a random observation, but I would think that if a man who started his post off with how worthless stats are, he might not end it with a story about how he culled and reviewed comparable stats in his spare time.

But that's just me.

And exactly how do you want people who defend Eli to make their case? What I have been able to glean from your post is that it is a moving target, and you will never fail to discredit whatever points they bring up and move the goal line to fit your worldview.

Lay it out for us all, if you please.
</P>


Well, i know that what ijust wrote was a lot to read. but i said "most" stats lie. some are better indicators then others and it's impossible to get an actual controlled environment to base any of this comparison from. But if you wanted to get stats, let's at least control the environment to as much as we can right? Taking stats off of an almanac(spelling) means nothing.</P>


Honestly, I don't know how they can defend Eli. Come up with a better statistical example I guess. The 'haters' really don't say a whole lot. They just say Eli is inaccurate. That's a very general statement not exactly a sin. It's just the stats the eli defenders use in response that mean nothing. </P>


If someone could actually come up with a decent comparison in a controlled, constrained environment between the QBs, that would be much more valid. But that'll take some time to compile spreadsheets of game data for only certain games, etc, and I'm sure most of us have better things to do. The closest thing I've seen to any of this is that "Eli has a 95 passer rating (whatever that means) in domes or warm weather .. i forget" which indicates that playing in Giants stadium could be a huge factor in his stats. That's fine, but what about his peers? How do they perform in domes? Show me that Eli out performs his peers relative to his peers and I think that's a good example.</P>


well mcnabb had 55% completion percentage and 200 yards on 40 attempts along with two picks but yet he gets praised by the eli haters for the playoff game</P>


I don't remember them praising McNabb for his performance. He had some god awful throws to wide open WRs. He missed a wide open WR for 6, but he managed to hit strikes on the rest. Kevin Curtis having the ball bounce off his facemask, the one to Jackson, etc. However, i do remember people saying McNabb seemed to have been affected less by the wind or whatever then Eli was.</P>


Kind of a "McNabb didn't have as much difficulty with then wind, how come Eli always does?"</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-03-2009, 06:08 PM
yea but if we're going to use stats to kill eli we'll use stats to help eli as well.. And i'd say Montana had alot more help with WRs than Eli had</P>


Go back and read every post going against Eli.* The majority of then NEVER brought up stats first.* It was always people who defending him.* A typical post went like this:</P>


Hater: "Eli has issues because he isn't accurate."
Homer: "Oh yeah?* How do you explain the 60% completion rate and the 20 TDs he had last year".</P>


Or even worse</P>


Homer: "What about his 200 QB rating and other stats in the playoffs last year?"</P>


And thus the stats debate starts.* Pro Eli folk start most of this.* So if anything, all the times where people said, "stats are misleading" in defense of Eli are full of it because they do nothing but use meaningless stats themselves to support their cause.* </P>


You think you can sum up someone's play by saying 60% completion rate 20 TDs, 10 ints, and 3500 yards?* Most stats lie.* You've said it.* I've said it.* So how about we pick and choose which facts do matter and go from there?* For one, comparing QBs from different eras is absolutely ******ed.* </P>


Seriously, you want to do a best case comparison scenario for Eli, Ben, and Rivers?* Take both of their top 2 years statistically.* Take into account only the warm (good weather)or dome*games and keep track of attempts, yards, TDs, ints, etc.**Then compare.* I've done a cursory glance out of curiousity in my spare time and let me tell you, Ben and Rivers blow Eli out of the water.</P>


Yes Matt.* You are one of the most guilty when using useless stats as well starting the whole useless statistic debate when defending Eli.</P>




Now this is just a random observation, but I would think that if* a man who started his post off with how worthless stats are, he might not end it with a story about how he culled and reviewed comparable stats in his spare time.

But that's just me.

And exactly how do you want people who defend Eli to make their case?* What I have been able to glean from your post is that it is a moving target, and you will never fail to discredit whatever points they bring up and move the goal line to fit your worldview.

Lay it out for us all, if you please.
</P>


Well, i know that what ijust wrote was a lot to read.* but i said "most" stats lie.* some are better indicators then others and it's impossible to get an actual controlled environment to base any of this comparison from.* But if you wanted to get stats, let's at least control the environment to as much as we can right?* Taking stats off of an almanac(spelling) means nothing.</P>


Honestly, I don't know how they can defend Eli.* Come up with a better statistical example I guess.* The 'haters' really don't say a whole lot.* They just say Eli is inaccurate.* That's a very general statement not exactly a sin.* It's just the stats the eli defenders use in response that mean nothing.* </P>


If someone could actually come up with a decent comparison in a controlled, constrained environment between the QBs, that would be much more valid.* But that'll take some time to compile spreadsheets of game data for only certain games, etc, and I'm sure most of us have better things to do.* The closest thing I've seen to any of this is that "Eli has a 95 passer rating (whatever that means) in domes or warm weather .. i forget"* which indicates that playing in Giants stadium could be a huge factor in his stats.* That's fine, but what about his peers?* How do they perform in domes?* Show me that Eli out performs his peers relative to his peers and I think that's a good example.</P>


well mcnabb had 55% completion percentage and 200 yards on 40 attempts along with two picks but yet he gets praised by the eli haters for the playoff game</P>


I don't remember them praising McNabb for his performance.* He had some god awful throws to wide open WRs.* He missed a wide open WR for 6, but he managed to hit strikes on the rest.* Kevin Curtis having the ball bounce off his facemask, the one to Jackson, etc.* However, i do remember people saying McNabb seemed to have been affected less by the wind or whatever then Eli was.</P>


Kind of a "McNabb didn't have as much difficulty with then wind, how come Eli always does?"</P>

thats a watered down memory u have...

It was more like how come mcnabb can throw in this weather, but eli can't.

gumby742
02-03-2009, 06:08 PM
yea but if we're going to use stats to kill eli we'll use stats to help eli as well.. And i'd say Montana had alot more help with WRs than Eli had</P>


Go back and read every post going against Eli. The majority of then NEVER brought up stats first. It was always people who defending him. A typical post went like this:</P>


Hater: "Eli has issues because he isn't accurate."
Homer: "Oh yeah? How do you explain the 60% completion rate and the 20 TDs he had last year".</P>


Or even worse</P>


Homer: "What about his 200 QB rating and other stats in the playoffs last year?"</P>


And thus the stats debate starts. Pro Eli folk start most of this. So if anything, all the times where people said, "stats are misleading" in defense of Eli are full of it because they do nothing but use meaningless stats themselves to support their cause. </P>


You think you can sum up someone's play by saying 60% completion rate 20 TDs, 10 ints, and 3500 yards? Most stats lie. You've said it. I've said it. So how about we pick and choose which facts do matter and go from there? For one, comparing QBs from different eras is absolutely ******ed. </P>


Seriously, you want to do a best case comparison scenario for Eli, Ben, and Rivers? Take both of their top 2 years statistically. Take into account only the warm (good weather)or domegames and keep track of attempts, yards, TDs, ints, etc.Then compare. I've done a cursory glance out of curiousity in my spare time and let me tell you, Ben and Rivers blow Eli out of the water. Oh i know, the WRs get no separation, it was the co-ordinators fault because he didn't simplify the offense. Cry me a river. The excuses are really getting old. Eli is now in his prime going into his SIXTH year. If you want to say this, then no NFL QB in your book is a bad QB right? Every excuse applies to them just as much.</P>


Yes Matt. You are one of the most guilty when using useless stats as well starting the whole useless statistic debate when defending Eli.</P>


your right, i guess i do use stats when having 4 winning seasons in a row, 4 playoff appearances in a row, a superbowl win, and superbowl mvp doesn't get the guy respect. I would say look at the records and rings, but apparently that won't do the eli haters justice either</P>


06 was not a winning season.</P>


Eli deserves and gets plenty of respect. He's a very good player. After 5 years it seems that Ben is a bit better. He could conceivably be put in the same catagory as Peyton and Brady if he has a couple more outstanding seasons.</P>


</P>


Ben definitely started out of the gates a little quicker, but i would say Ben has been inthe better of the 2 situations, why do you give the edge to Ben? </P>


i give the edge to ben cuz he has two rings and hes able to make plays with his feet</P>


You forgot the most important thing. Ben is accurate.</P>


yea he is more accurate than eli... but eli also won't live and die by holding the ball too long which will prolly give us extra seasons with eli while ben packs it in early. but like i said before, elis accuracy issues are over dramatized. Hes not the most accurate QB in the league, but u guys really take it to another level</P>


It's all relative. If your peers are more acurate then you are, then you aren't accurate - relatively. And Ben and Rivers and many others really are a lot more accurate then Eli is.</P>

bandwgn86
02-03-2009, 06:13 PM
yea but if we're going to use stats to kill eli we'll use stats to help eli as well.. And i'd say Montana had alot more help with WRs than Eli had</P>


Go back and read every post going against Eli. The majority of then NEVER brought up stats first. It was always people who defending him. A typical post went like this:</P>


Hater: "Eli has issues because he isn't accurate."
Homer: "Oh yeah? How do you explain the 60% completion rate and the 20 TDs he had last year".</P>


Or even worse</P>


Homer: "What about his 200 QB rating and other stats in the playoffs last year?"</P>


And thus the stats debate starts. Pro Eli folk start most of this. So if anything, all the times where people said, "stats are misleading" in defense of Eli are full of it because they do nothing but use meaningless stats themselves to support their cause. </P>


You think you can sum up someone's play by saying 60% completion rate 20 TDs, 10 ints, and 3500 yards? Most stats lie. You've said it. I've said it. So how about we pick and choose which facts do matter and go from there? For one, comparing QBs from different eras is absolutely ******ed. </P>


Seriously, you want to do a best case comparison scenario for Eli, Ben, and Rivers? Take both of their top 2 years statistically. Take into account only the warm (good weather)or domegames and keep track of attempts, yards, TDs, ints, etc.Then compare. I've done a cursory glance out of curiousity in my spare time and let me tell you, Ben and Rivers blow Eli out of the water. Oh i know, the WRs get no separation, it was the co-ordinators fault because he didn't simplify the offense. Cry me a river. The excuses are really getting old. Eli is now in his prime going into his SIXTH year. If you want to say this, then no NFL QB in your book is a bad QB right? Every excuse applies to them just as much.</P>


Yes Matt. You are one of the most guilty when using useless stats as well starting the whole useless statistic debate when defending Eli.</P>


your right, i guess i do use stats when having 4 winning seasons in a row, 4 playoff appearances in a row, a superbowl win, and superbowl mvp doesn't get the guy respect. I would say look at the records and rings, but apparently that won't do the eli haters justice either</P>


06 was not a winning season.</P>


Eli deserves and gets plenty of respect. He's a very good player. After 5 years it seems that Ben is a bit better. He could conceivably be put in the same catagory as Peyton and Brady if he has a couple more outstanding seasons.</P>


</P>


Ben definitely started out of the gates a little quicker, but i would say Ben has been inthe better of the 2 situations, why do you give the edge to Ben? </P>


i give the edge to ben cuz he has two rings and hes able to make plays with his feet</P>


i personally think the 2 cannot be compared 2 different situations so this is more a matter of opinion, i'd giveit to Eli cause Ben hashad the betteroppurtunities to putupstats. Eli is improving every year and Ben is not very consistent (he's still very good for those disecting this) from oneyear to the next.. SB rings andthe ability to move around doesn't do much for me...</P>

BavaroLT86
02-03-2009, 06:22 PM
yea but if we're going to use stats to kill eli we'll use stats to help eli as well.. And i'd say Montana had alot more help with WRs than Eli had</P>


Go back and read every post going against Eli. The majority of then NEVER brought up stats first. It was always people who defending him. A typical post went like this:</P>


Hater: "Eli has issues because he isn't accurate."
Homer: "Oh yeah? How do you explain the 60% completion rate and the 20 TDs he had last year".</P>


Or even worse</P>


Homer: "What about his 200 QB rating and other stats in the playoffs last year?"</P>


And thus the stats debate starts. Pro Eli folk start most of this. So if anything, all the times where people said, "stats are misleading" in defense of Eli are full of it because they do nothing but use meaningless stats themselves to support their cause. </P>


You think you can sum up someone's play by saying 60% completion rate 20 TDs, 10 ints, and 3500 yards? Most stats lie. You've said it. I've said it. So how about we pick and choose which facts do matter and go from there? For one, comparing QBs from different eras is absolutely ******ed. </P>


Seriously, you want to do a best case comparison scenario for Eli, Ben, and Rivers? Take both of their top 2 years statistically. Take into account only the warm (good weather)or domegames and keep track of attempts, yards, TDs, ints, etc.Then compare. I've done a cursory glance out of curiousity in my spare time and let me tell you, Ben and Rivers blow Eli out of the water. Oh i know, the WRs get no separation, it was the co-ordinators fault because he didn't simplify the offense. Cry me a river. The excuses are really getting old. Eli is now in his prime going into his SIXTH year. If you want to say this, then no NFL QB in your book is a bad QB right? Every excuse applies to them just as much.</P>


Yes Matt. You are one of the most guilty when using useless stats as well starting the whole useless statistic debate when defending Eli.</P>


your right, i guess i do use stats when having 4 winning seasons in a row, 4 playoff appearances in a row, a superbowl win, and superbowl mvp doesn't get the guy respect. I would say look at the records and rings, but apparently that won't do the eli haters justice either</P>


06 was not a winning season.</P>


Eli deserves and gets plenty of respect. He's a very good player. After 5 years it seems that Ben is a bit better. He could conceivably be put in the same catagory as Peyton and Brady if he has a couple more outstanding seasons.</P>


</P>


Ben definitely started out of the gates a little quicker, but i would say Ben has been inthe better of the 2 situations, why do you give the edge to Ben? </P>


i give the edge to ben cuz he has two rings and hes able to make plays with his feet</P>


You forgot the most important thing. Ben is accurate.</P>


yea he is more accurate than eli... but eli also won't live and die by holding the ball too long which will prolly give us extra seasons with eli while ben packs it in early. but like i said before, elis accuracy issues are over dramatized. Hes not the most accurate QB in the league, but u guys really take it to another level</P>


I guess this dope forgets Eli did win The Super Bowl MVP last Year and Gave The Giants the Lead In 07 against The Eagles but the d Let Them kick a game winning Field goal?</P>


Ben aslo Through bad passes that should have been Picks But The cards defenders dropped the ball Those plays Clearly changed the Game.</P>

bandwgn86
02-03-2009, 06:22 PM
yea but if we're going to use stats to kill eli we'll use stats to help eli as well.. And i'd say Montana had alot more help with WRs than Eli had</P>


Go back and read every post going against Eli. The majority of then NEVER brought up stats first. It was always people who defending him. A typical post went like this:</P>


Hater: "Eli has issues because he isn't accurate."
Homer: "Oh yeah? How do you explain the 60% completion rate and the 20 TDs he had last year".</P>


Or even worse</P>


Homer: "What about his 200 QB rating and other stats in the playoffs last year?"</P>


And thus the stats debate starts. Pro Eli folk start most of this. So if anything, all the times where people said, "stats are misleading" in defense of Eli are full of it because they do nothing but use meaningless stats themselves to support their cause. </P>


You think you can sum up someone's play by saying 60% completion rate 20 TDs, 10 ints, and 3500 yards? Most stats lie. You've said it. I've said it. So how about we pick and choose which facts do matter and go from there? For one, comparing QBs from different eras is absolutely ******ed. </P>


Seriously, you want to do a best case comparison scenario for Eli, Ben, and Rivers? Take both of their top 2 years statistically. Take into account only the warm (good weather)or domegames and keep track of attempts, yards, TDs, ints, etc.Then compare. I've done a cursory glance out of curiousity in my spare time and let me tell you, Ben and Rivers blow Eli out of the water. Oh i know, the WRs get no separation, it was the co-ordinators fault because he didn't simplify the offense. Cry me a river. The excuses are really getting old. Eli is now in his prime going into his SIXTH year. If you want to say this, then no NFL QB in your book is a bad QB right? Every excuse applies to them just as much.</P>


Yes Matt. You are one of the most guilty when using useless stats as well starting the whole useless statistic debate when defending Eli.</P>


your right, i guess i do use stats when having 4 winning seasons in a row, 4 playoff appearances in a row, a superbowl win, and superbowl mvp doesn't get the guy respect. I would say look at the records and rings, but apparently that won't do the eli haters justice either</P>


06 was not a winning season.</P>


Eli deserves and gets plenty of respect. He's a very good player. After 5 years it seems that Ben is a bit better. He could conceivably be put in the same catagory as Peyton and Brady if he has a couple more outstanding seasons.</P>


</P>


Ben definitely started out of the gates a little quicker, but i would say Ben has been inthe better of the 2 situations, why do you give the edge to Ben? </P>


i give the edge to ben cuz he has two rings and hes able to make plays with his feet</P>


You forgot the most important thing. Ben is accurate.</P>


</P>


how would this be proven. </P>

Gianthunter
02-03-2009, 06:28 PM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.

hizo64
02-03-2009, 06:49 PM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]
What do Joe montana and Eli manning have in common? Superbowl MVPs and only QBs to throw 2 TDs in the 4th quarter....Also i hate you</P>


Amen brother, uh oh, you defended Eli! That means your a homer!! IM A PROUD "HOMER"</P>

Bleedin Blue Since '62
02-03-2009, 07:10 PM
It's the offseason. What's wrong with a little comparison?
</P>


<FONT color=#0000ff>A little? Nothing wrong with that. Where do you see a little? </FONT></P>

jgrangers2
02-03-2009, 08:08 PM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>

Bleedin Blue Since '62
02-03-2009, 08:16 PM
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu310/jpalumbo77/frustrated.jpg</P>


I just wanted to check in to see if you folks had agreed on the better QB yet <FONT color=#ff0000 size=5>!</FONT></P>

gumby742
02-04-2009, 12:35 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</p>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</p>

Ugh. Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is. We point out Eli's flaws. You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks. We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have. You say we make Ben to be perfect. How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes? Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli. You make mountains out of molehills. Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed. But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize. YOU turn it into 'hate'.

Zeph
02-04-2009, 01:26 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh. Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is. We point out Eli's flaws. You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks. We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have. You say we make Ben to be perfect. How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes? Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli. You make mountains out of molehills. Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed. But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize. YOU turn it into 'hate'.
</P>


Gumby, lets be real. Very few people are talking about you, in particular. Just because you may actually be a realist, doesnt mean that the others are. Stop being so sensitive about whatpeople feel and assuming they mean you.</P>


I get lumped in with the homer crowd. It happens, I don't get upset about it and rail against the unfairness of it all. Though I realize that you might not be extreme, but I feeland many others feel that there are quite a few people here who just flat out hate Eli the player, not the man, I suppose but the player definitely. </P>


People defend. YOU turn it into 'homer'</P>

Toronto3
02-04-2009, 01:43 AM
I believe that our WRs have a hard time getting separation. I can't be certain that's always the case as the TV cameras follow the ball. But I've watched plenty of football in my day and I've seen enough breakdown of our game film on various shows*and the conclusion I come to is that Toomer as much as I love him stuggled to get open the last part of the season. Same goes for the Hixon and smith.</P>


As far as this Ben being better than Eli conversation. That's why this message board sucks. Because Giants fans are forced to argue with Giants fans about **** that doesn't matter. </P>


If you love Ben so much I'm sure there are online communities for jocking Big Ben. Eli is the Giants QB He marched us to the greatest upset or should I say string up upsets the sport has ever seen. </P>


Do you guys really understand the scope of what the Giants did last year with Eli at the helm????</P>


4 straight upsets, the greatest play in SB history as he kicked the stetson model in the nuts and took his lunch money infront of 100 million people. 18-1.</P>


Fast forward 12 months and we're debating about who's better than Eli. Why's it even matter? Football isn't about having the best player at every position . You need the right guys in the right spots to win. for the TEAM to win. Its not Eli Vs Ben in a tire contest. WE WON THE SUPERBOWL in a fashion that will not be topped in any of our life times. Wake up.</P>

Burier,

Your above statement easily serves as the best and most poignant post that I have read on these message boards. Bravo!!!!!!

alwaysgiants17
02-04-2009, 01:47 AM
I believe that our WRs have a hard time getting separation. I can't be certain that's always the case as the TV cameras follow the ball. But I've watched plenty of football in my day and I've seen enough breakdown of our game film on various showsand the conclusion I come to is that Toomer as much as I love him stuggled to get open the last part of the season. Same goes for the Hixon and smith.</P>


As far as this Ben being better than Eli conversation. That's why this message board sucks. Because Giants fans are forced to argue with Giants fans about **** that doesn't matter. </P>


If you love Ben so much I'm sure there are online communities for jocking Big Ben. Eli is the Giants QB He marched us to the greatest upset or should I say string up upsets the sport has ever seen. </P>


Do you guys really understand the scope of what the Giants did last year with Eli at the helm????</P>


4 straight upsets, the greatest play in SB history as he kicked the stetson model in the nuts and took his lunch money infront of 100 million people. 18-1.</P>


Fast forward 12 months and we're debating about who's better than Eli. Why's it even matter? Football isn't about having the best player at every position . You need the right guys in the right spots to win. for the TEAM to win. Its not Eli Vs Ben in a tire contest. WE WON THE SUPERBOWL in a fashion that will not be topped in any of our life times. Wake up.</P>


Burier, Your above statement easily serves as the best and most poignant post that I have read on these message boards. Bravo!!!!!!</P>


wow..one of the best posts I have read on here in awhile(minus David's..his are always great)..couldnt agree more</P>

jgrangers2
02-04-2009, 02:02 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh. Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is. We point out Eli's flaws. You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks. We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have. You say we make Ben to be perfect. How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes? Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli. You make mountains out of molehills. Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed. But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize. YOU turn it into 'hate'.
</P>


No, the problem is that some people tend to overexaggerate Eli's problems and DO treat other QBs as if they don't have problems. For example, a guy like ManningBowl who would make you think Eli is out there throwing the ball all over the place and missing absolutely everyone. Maybe it's not you exactly, but there are people who seem more than happy to ignore the good that Eli brings, exaggerate the bad and treat other QBs as if they're perfect.</P>

Toronto3
02-04-2009, 02:13 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh.* Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is.* We point out Eli's flaws.* You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks.* We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have.* You say we make Ben to be perfect.* How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes?* Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli.* You make mountains out of molehills.* Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed.* But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize.* YOU turn it into 'hate'.
</P>


No, the problem is that some people tend to overexaggerate Eli's problems and DO treat other QBs as if they don't have problems. For example, a guy like ManningBowl who would make you think Eli is out there throwing the ball all over the place and missing absolutely everyone. Maybe it's not you exactly, but there are people who seem more than happy to ignore the good that Eli brings, exaggerate the bad and treat other QBs as if they're perfect.</P>

This is also a great point jgrangers2.

As an avid Eli supporter, I am willing to concede that Ben and Rivers are more CONSISTENTLY accurate, but there are so many tangible and intangible components to Eli's game that very much make him arguably a better QB then both Ben and Rivers. I will not hesitate to rank Eli as one of the top 5 Qbs in the NFL right now although if one were to just rank just his accuracy, one might say that his accuracy is 15th best.

Grande Azul
02-04-2009, 02:22 AM
Ben better than Eli? I don't know about better but certainly cheaper . If you take Ben you get to keep those extra draft picks and you weaken the Steelers position by having to draft Rivers? Weaken? Rivers has moxie and may have one Superbowls with Pittsburgh. The Giants selected Rivers knowing that San Diego had him rated higher than Ben and a trade required Rivers. Accorsi had Manning-I-Tis and had a feeling for the flavor of a Manning. In many ways the QB's from that class mirror each other. There teams win in spite of there QB's performance. All 3 have shown brilliance and weakness. All 3 are durable, level headed, cornerstones you can build a team around. All 3 have had success some more than others but Rivers who's defense is suspect has shown me he's willing to shoulder a team when it needs him. The Steelers will always be about Defense first. The Giants will always be a run first team. The Chargers are both suspect on defense and losing LT to wear and tear. So if you're asking me if we had a time machine and some pull what would i change. Nothing! Only this time I wouldn't trade for Eli because ultimately it's not his skill set that people have a problem with it's his awshucks attitude that drives you crazy because at the end of the day yeah I want a guy who'll wear his heart on his sleeve and fight for that extra inch and show me that it's not okay to settle for a bad day. Someone who'll admit to being nervous before a superbowl or a guy who'll play with 2 busted kness and still apologize for his effort and not some New Orleans native that lives by the motto of Big Easy. I want emotion, anger, disappointment, frustration, not some robot that thinks the wind had nothing to do with it or that one player didn't make the differnece because being 0-2 at home for the playoffs is just unbELIevable. So thanks for SBXLII but does that scramble and catch have any meaning if our defense doesn't shut down the highest scoring offense in NFL history? Awshucks it sure doesn't.................i hate me too!!!

Zeph
02-04-2009, 08:23 AM
You know Azul; there is something to be said for someone who man's up to his mistakes and doesn't make excuses. It's called class. If Eli blamed the wind, his teammates, the game plan, etc, people would kill him for it. He takes the high road, acts like a gentleman, and is lambasted for that?</P>


I'll take the guy who plays the right way rather than some emotionally wild qb who is unable to stay on an even keel regardless of the circumstances around him. </P>

LT= Lawrence Taylor
02-04-2009, 09:15 AM
I believe that our WRs have a hard time getting separation. I can't be certain that's always the case as the TV cameras follow the ball. But I've watched plenty of football in my day and I've seen enough breakdown of our game film on various showsand the conclusion I come to is that Toomer as much as I love him stuggled to get open the last part of the season. Same goes for the Hixon and smith.</p>


As far as this Ben being better than Eli conversation. That's why this message board sucks. Because Giants fans are forced to argue with Giants fans about **** that doesn't matter. </p>


If you love Ben so much I'm sure there are online communities for jocking Big Ben. Eli is the Giants QB He marched us to the greatest upset or should I say string up upsets the sport has ever seen. </p>


Do you guys really understand the scope of what the Giants did last year with Eli at the helm????</p>


4 straight upsets, the greatest play in SB history as he kicked the stetson model in the nuts and took his lunch money infront of 100 million people. 18-1.</p>


Fast forward 12 months and we're debating about who's better than Eli. Why's it even matter? Football isn't about having the best player at every position . You need the right guys in the right spots to win. for the TEAM to win. Its not Eli Vs Ben in a tire contest. WE WON THE SUPERBOWL in a fashion that will not be topped in any of our life times. Wake up.</p>

Burier,

Your above statement easily serves as the best and most poignant post that I have read on these message boards. Bravo!!!!!!

Nice post

Mod_M
02-04-2009, 09:51 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</p>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</p>

Ugh.* Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is.* We point out Eli's flaws.* You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks.* We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have.* You say we make Ben to be perfect.* How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes?* Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli.* You make mountains out of molehills.* Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed.* But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize.* YOU turn it into 'hate'.



if you were as innocent and just "pointing things out", i doubt there would be such a backlash against the "haters"

gumby742
02-04-2009, 10:13 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh. Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is. We point out Eli's flaws. You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks. We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have. You say we make Ben to be perfect. How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes? Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli. You make mountains out of molehills. Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed. But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize. YOU turn it into 'hate'.
</P>


No, the problem is that some people tend to overexaggerate Eli's problems and DO treat other QBs as if they don't have problems. For example, a guy like ManningBowl who would make you think Eli is out there throwing the ball all over the place and missing absolutely everyone. Maybe it's not you exactly, but there are people who seem more than happy to ignore the good that Eli brings, exaggerate the bad and treat other QBs as if they're perfect.</P>


</P>


If you go back and really read their posts, they really haven't said anything all that drastic. But people who defend Eli so vehemently make it all too funto give Eli a "playful" jab in the ribs here and there. Saying that he couldn't hit the side of the barn is completely overboard, but it's really hard not to sit there and make fun of him when there are so many over sensitive people about it.</P>

ciucca
02-04-2009, 10:20 AM
All we need to know here is that if Eli played with the Steelers and We had Ben everyone would be saying we blew it by not drafting Eli.

Remember the Steelers won 2 SB, or more realistically handed 2 Lombardi trophys by the NFL, where Ben had a 25 QB rating and 78 QB rating, and Eli was the SB MVP. Argument over.

bELIeve_in_Giants
02-04-2009, 10:23 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</p>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</p>




Ugh. Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is. We point out Eli's flaws. You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks. We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have. You say we make Ben to be perfect. How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes? Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli. You make mountains out of molehills. Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed. But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize. YOU turn it into 'hate'.
</p>


No, the problem is that some people tend to overexaggerate Eli's problems and DO treat other QBs as if they don't have problems. For example, a guy like ManningBowl who would make you think Eli is out there throwing the ball all over the place and missing absolutely everyone. Maybe it's not you exactly, but there are people who seem more than happy to ignore the good that Eli brings, exaggerate the bad and treat other QBs as if they're perfect.</p>


</p>


If you go back and really read their posts, they really haven't said anything all that drastic. But people who defend Eli so vehemently make it all too funto give Eli a "playful" jab in the ribs here and there. Saying that he couldn't hit the side of the barn is completely overboard, but it's really hard not to sit there and make fun of him when there are so many over sensitive people about it.</p>

Eli2Plaxico posting pics of Eli as a Developmentally Disabled boy are drastic. Another guy stated twice that he couldn't wait for Eli to have a career ending injury. These are drastic haters.

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 10:23 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh.* Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is.* We point out Eli's flaws.* You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks.* We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have.* You say we make Ben to be perfect.* How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes?* Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli.* You make mountains out of molehills.* Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed.* But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize.* YOU turn it into 'hate'.
</P>


No, the problem is that some people tend to overexaggerate Eli's problems and DO treat other QBs as if they don't have problems. For example, a guy like ManningBowl who would make you think Eli is out there throwing the ball all over the place and missing absolutely everyone. Maybe it's not you exactly, but there are people who seem more than happy to ignore the good that Eli brings, exaggerate the bad and treat other QBs as if they're perfect.</P>


</P>


If you go back and really read their posts, they really haven't said anything all that drastic.*** But people who defend Eli so vehemently make it all too fun*to give Eli a "playful" jab in the ribs here and there.* Saying that he couldn't hit the side of the barn is completely overboard, but it's really hard not to sit there and make fun of him when there are so many over sensitive people about it.</P>

it seems u take more shots at eli than u do alking him up so u get grouped anti-eli. Your not the worst offender or that the majority of the "defenders" are referring to. But when you start sticking up for the bashers thats where your going to lose ur credibility

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 10:24 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh.* Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is.* We point out Eli's flaws.* You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks.* We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have.* You say we make Ben to be perfect.* How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes?* Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli.* You make mountains out of molehills.* Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed.* But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize.* YOU turn it into 'hate'.
</P>


Gumby, lets be real. Very few people are talking about you, in particular. Just because you may actually be a realist, doesnt mean that the others are. Stop being so sensitive about what*people feel and assuming they mean you.</P>


I get lumped in with the homer crowd. It happens, I don't get upset about it and rail against the unfairness of it all. Though I realize that you might not be extreme, but I feel*and many others feel that there are quite a few people here who just flat out hate Eli the player, not the man, I suppose but the player definitely. </P>


People defend. YOU turn it into 'homer'</P>

i'm putting you up for poster of the week.

I really enjoy 99% of everything u post

gumby742
02-04-2009, 10:25 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh. Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is. We point out Eli's flaws. You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks. We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have. You say we make Ben to be perfect. How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes? Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli. You make mountains out of molehills. Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed. But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize. YOU turn it into 'hate'.
if you were as innocent and just "pointing things out", i doubt there would be such a backlash against the "haters"</P>


Read the beginning of this thread. Ben is better then Eli. In fact, what was written in the original post wasn't 'bashing' at all. If you continue reading it was the other way around I think. People got all in a huff and started bashing Ben to protect Eli. Giggles didn't do anything but stand his ground the entire post while pro Eli folks were raising hell.</P>

JerseyGiant21
02-04-2009, 10:27 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</p>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</p>




Ugh. Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is. We point out Eli's flaws. You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks. We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have. You say we make Ben to be perfect. How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes? Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli. You make mountains out of molehills. Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed. But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize. YOU turn it into 'hate'.
</p>


No, the problem is that some people tend to overexaggerate Eli's problems and DO treat other QBs as if they don't have problems. For example, a guy like ManningBowl who would make you think Eli is out there throwing the ball all over the place and missing absolutely everyone. Maybe it's not you exactly, but there are people who seem more than happy to ignore the good that Eli brings, exaggerate the bad and treat other QBs as if they're perfect.</p>


</p>


If you go back and really read their posts, they really haven't said anything all that drastic. But people who defend Eli so vehemently make it all too funto give Eli a "playful" jab in the ribs here and there. Saying that he couldn't hit the side of the barn is completely overboard, but it's really hard not to sit there and make fun of him when there are so many over sensitive people about it.</p>

Seriously...have you actually read what some people have posted about him.....

Looks to me like there are sensitive people on both sides of the debate........

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 10:28 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh.* Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is.* We point out Eli's flaws.* You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks.* We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have.* You say we make Ben to be perfect.* How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes?* Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli.* You make mountains out of molehills.* Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed.* But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize.* YOU turn it into 'hate'.
if you were as innocent and just "pointing things out", i doubt there would be such a backlash against the "haters"</P>


Read the beginning of this thread.* Ben is better then Eli.* In fact, what was written in the original post wasn't 'bashing' at all.* If you continue reading it was the other way around I think.* People got all in a huff and started bashing Ben to protect Eli.* Giggles didn't do anything but stand his ground the entire post while pro Eli folks were raising hell.</P>

so we are on a Giants message board and your trying to tell me that this thread isn't an attack on eli?

Bro load up my bong with what ur smoking

gumby742
02-04-2009, 10:31 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh. Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is. We point out Eli's flaws. You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks. We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have. You say we make Ben to be perfect. How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes? Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli. You make mountains out of molehills. Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed. But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize. YOU turn it into 'hate'.
</P>


Gumby, lets be real. Very few people are talking about you, in particular. Just because you may actually be a realist, doesnt mean that the others are. Stop being so sensitive about whatpeople feel and assuming they mean you.</P>


I get lumped in with the homer crowd. It happens, I don't get upset about it and rail against the unfairness of it all. Though I realize that you might not be extreme, but I feeland many others feel that there are quite a few people here who just flat out hate Eli the player, not the man, I suppose but the player definitely. </P>


People defend. YOU turn it into 'homer'</P>


</P>


Actually the funny thing is, for me it's not even about who's a homer and who isn't. If anything i "should" get lumped in with the "hater" category because I'm just not a fan of Eli's. But my issue is that the lot of you put words in peoples mouths and blow things out of proportion. Pro Eli folk make the the criticism into something 10 times worse, yet have the gall to lament how Eli is getting slammed unfairly.</P>


You do realize that there are only a small handful of people who constantly stand here and criticize Eli right? In fact, when we just won the SB, I think there was maybe 1-2 people who were still criticizing him without saying anything good. But what do you see? "Oh man, all these Eli haters! What can he do to please you?"</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 10:35 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh.* Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is.* We point out Eli's flaws.* You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks.* We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have.* You say we make Ben to be perfect.* How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes?* Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli.* You make mountains out of molehills.* Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed.* But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize.* YOU turn it into 'hate'.
</P>


Gumby, lets be real. Very few people are talking about you, in particular. Just because you may actually be a realist, doesnt mean that the others are. Stop being so sensitive about what*people feel and assuming they mean you.</P>


I get lumped in with the homer crowd. It happens, I don't get upset about it and rail against the unfairness of it all. Though I realize that you might not be extreme, but I feel*and many others feel that there are quite a few people here who just flat out hate Eli the player, not the man, I suppose but the player definitely. </P>


People defend. YOU turn it into 'homer'</P>


</P>


Actually the funny thing is, for me it's not even about who's a homer and who isn't.* If anything i "should" get lumped in with the "hater" category because I'm just not a fan of Eli's.* But my issue is that the lot of you put words in peoples mouths and blow things out of proportion.** Pro Eli folk make the the criticism into something 10 times worse, yet have the gall to lament how Eli is getting slammed unfairly.</P>


You do realize that there are only a small handful of people who constantly stand here and criticize Eli right?* In fact, when we just won the SB, I think there was maybe 1-2 people who were still criticizing him without saying anything good.* But what do you see?* "Oh man, all these Eli haters!* What can he do to please you?"</P>

are u kidding me? Blow things up and put words in peoples mouths?

I make a statement that Eli is further along his career at this point in his career than Joe Montana was and all of a sudden i said Eli Manning is better than Joe Montana;.

Even pro-eli folk will admit hes not top of the chain in accuracy, but hes also not bottom of hte pack which is the perception that the haters put off.

Listen, the number of eli haters was hushed up after the superbowl win, but those of us that have been around for the past coupl of years have BRAWLED on here over this topic.

When unfair shots are taken, people stick up for our QB. You try and say we're too touchy. Well no, we just don't want to hear the garbage anymore.

gumby742
02-04-2009, 10:39 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh. Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is. We point out Eli's flaws. You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks. We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have. You say we make Ben to be perfect. How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes? Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli. You make mountains out of molehills. Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed. But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize. YOU turn it into 'hate'.
if you were as innocent and just "pointing things out", i doubt there would be such a backlash against the "haters"</P>


Read the beginning of this thread. Ben is better then Eli. In fact, what was written in the original post wasn't 'bashing' at all. If you continue reading it was the other way around I think. People got all in a huff and started bashing Ben to protect Eli. Giggles didn't do anything but stand his ground the entire post while pro Eli folks were raising hell.</P>


so we are on a Giants message board and your trying to tell me that this thread isn't an attack on eli? Bro load up my bong with what ur smoking</P>


And tell me that if the subject was Eli just won his 2nd SB so he is better then Ben that people wouldn't be all happy and responding with yesses. The original poster has a point with the Ben is better then Eli doesn't he/she?</P>

gumby742
02-04-2009, 10:45 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh. Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is. We point out Eli's flaws. You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks. We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have. You say we make Ben to be perfect. How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes? Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli. You make mountains out of molehills. Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed. But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize. YOU turn it into 'hate'.
</P>


Gumby, lets be real. Very few people are talking about you, in particular. Just because you may actually be a realist, doesnt mean that the others are. Stop being so sensitive about whatpeople feel and assuming they mean you.</P>


I get lumped in with the homer crowd. It happens, I don't get upset about it and rail against the unfairness of it all. Though I realize that you might not be extreme, but I feeland many others feel that there are quite a few people here who just flat out hate Eli the player, not the man, I suppose but the player definitely. </P>


People defend. YOU turn it into 'homer'</P>


</P>


Actually the funny thing is, for me it's not even about who's a homer and who isn't. If anything i "should" get lumped in with the "hater" category because I'm just not a fan of Eli's. But my issue is that the lot of you put words in peoples mouths and blow things out of proportion. Pro Eli folk make the the criticism into something 10 times worse, yet have the gall to lament how Eli is getting slammed unfairly.</P>


You do realize that there are only a small handful of people who constantly stand here and criticize Eli right? In fact, when we just won the SB, I think there was maybe 1-2 people who were still criticizing him without saying anything good. But what do you see? "Oh man, all these Eli haters! What can he do to please you?"</P>


are u kidding me? Blow things up and put words in peoples mouths? I make a statement that Eli is further along his career at this point in his career than Joe Montana was and all of a sudden i said Eli Manning is better than Joe Montana;. Even pro-eli folk will admit hes not top of the chain in accuracy, but hes also not bottom of hte pack which is the perception that the haters put off. Listen, the number of eli haters was hushed up after the superbowl win, but those of us that have been around for the past coupl of years have BRAWLED on here over this topic. When unfair shots are taken, people stick up for our QB. You try and say we're too touchy. Well no, we just don't want to hear the garbage anymore.</P>


I have been around for the last 3-4 years and I've read all that stuff. What's being unfair? Saying that thus far (as of a coupl years ago) Eli hasn't been worth the draft picks? That the Chargers got the better end of the deal? Or by saying that Eli is just an average QB? Is that being unfair? No. Those are completely valid arguments.</P>


And yes, you are one of the many that are far too touchy. You turned valid arguments and maybe a bit of poking fun into a brawl. </P>


And about accuracy, Eli could very well be the bottom of the chain relative to his peers. Let me say that again Matt because you seem extremely dense and only see what you want to see. Relative to his peers. If you want to me to explain that also let me know.</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 10:47 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh.* Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is.* We point out Eli's flaws.* You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks.* We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have.* You say we make Ben to be perfect.* How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes?* Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli.* You make mountains out of molehills.* Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed.* But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize.* YOU turn it into 'hate'.
if you were as innocent and just "pointing things out", i doubt there would be such a backlash against the "haters"</P>


Read the beginning of this thread.* Ben is better then Eli.* In fact, what was written in the original post wasn't 'bashing' at all.* If you continue reading it was the other way around I think.* People got all in a huff and started bashing Ben to protect Eli.* Giggles didn't do anything but stand his ground the entire post while pro Eli folks were raising hell.</P>


so we are on a Giants message board and your trying to tell me that this thread isn't an attack on eli? Bro load up my bong with what ur smoking</P>


And tell me that if the subject was Eli just won his 2nd SB so he is better then Ben that people wouldn't be all happy and responding with yesses.* The original poster has a point with the Ben is better then Eli doesn't he/she?</P>

Ben is def the better QB as of right now at this point in their careers.

But this is a Giants message board, with a subject ben is better than eli and you think Eli fans are being over the top? What was hte motivation of even making this thread? To take a shot at eli...

It wasn't just some debate that eli homers can't handle, don't justify it as that either.

gumby742
02-04-2009, 10:49 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh. Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is. We point out Eli's flaws. You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks. We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have. You say we make Ben to be perfect. How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes? Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli. You make mountains out of molehills. Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed. But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize. YOU turn it into 'hate'.
</P>


No, the problem is that some people tend to overexaggerate Eli's problems and DO treat other QBs as if they don't have problems. For example, a guy like ManningBowl who would make you think Eli is out there throwing the ball all over the place and missing absolutely everyone. Maybe it's not you exactly, but there are people who seem more than happy to ignore the good that Eli brings, exaggerate the bad and treat other QBs as if they're perfect.</P>


</P>


If you go back and really read their posts, they really haven't said anything all that drastic. But people who defend Eli so vehemently make it all too funto give Eli a "playful" jab in the ribs here and there. Saying that he couldn't hit the side of the barn is completely overboard, but it's really hard not to sit there and make fun of him when there are so many over sensitive people about it.</P>




Eli2Plaxico posting pics of Eli as a Developmentally Disabled boy are drastic. Another guy stated twice that he couldn't wait for Eli to have a career ending injury. These are drastic haters.
</P>


That's my point those are TWO people. Throw me, and a few others into the same mix as you all do, that's only a small handful of people who say anything bad about Eli. And you make it seem like the haters are everywhere.</P>


People like you blow what is said out of proportion.</P>

gumby742
02-04-2009, 10:53 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh. Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is. We point out Eli's flaws. You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks. We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have. You say we make Ben to be perfect. How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes? Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli. You make mountains out of molehills. Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed. But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize. YOU turn it into 'hate'.
if you were as innocent and just "pointing things out", i doubt there would be such a backlash against the "haters"</P>


Read the beginning of this thread. Ben is better then Eli. In fact, what was written in the original post wasn't 'bashing' at all. If you continue reading it was the other way around I think. People got all in a huff and started bashing Ben to protect Eli. Giggles didn't do anything but stand his ground the entire post while pro Eli folks were raising hell.</P>


so we are on a Giants message board and your trying to tell me that this thread isn't an attack on eli? Bro load up my bong with what ur smoking</P>


And tell me that if the subject was Eli just won his 2nd SB so he is better then Ben that people wouldn't be all happy and responding with yesses. The original poster has a point with the Ben is better then Eli doesn't he/she?</P>


Ben is def the better QB as of right now at this point in their careers. But this is a Giants message board, with a subject ben is better than eli and you think Eli fans are being over the top? What was hte motivation of even making this thread? To take a shot at eli... It wasn't just some debate that eli homers can't handle, don't justify it as that either.</P>


I'm sure the thread was meant to instigate so may people reacted to that and not necessarily the contents. But tell me that had someone said similar thing somewhere else, the he/she wouldn't get flamed for it. Eh?</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 10:54 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh.* Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is.* We point out Eli's flaws.* You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks.* We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have.* You say we make Ben to be perfect.* How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes?* Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli.* You make mountains out of molehills.* Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed.* But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize.* YOU turn it into 'hate'.
</P>


Gumby, lets be real. Very few people are talking about you, in particular. Just because you may actually be a realist, doesnt mean that the others are. Stop being so sensitive about what*people feel and assuming they mean you.</P>


I get lumped in with the homer crowd. It happens, I don't get upset about it and rail against the unfairness of it all. Though I realize that you might not be extreme, but I feel*and many others feel that there are quite a few people here who just flat out hate Eli the player, not the man, I suppose but the player definitely. </P>


People defend. YOU turn it into 'homer'</P>


</P>


Actually the funny thing is, for me it's not even about who's a homer and who isn't.* If anything i "should" get lumped in with the "hater" category because I'm just not a fan of Eli's.* But my issue is that the lot of you put words in peoples mouths and blow things out of proportion.** Pro Eli folk make the the criticism into something 10 times worse, yet have the gall to lament how Eli is getting slammed unfairly.</P>


You do realize that there are only a small handful of people who constantly stand here and criticize Eli right?* In fact, when we just won the SB, I think there was maybe 1-2 people who were still criticizing him without saying anything good.* But what do you see?* "Oh man, all these Eli haters!* What can he do to please you?"</P>


are u kidding me? Blow things up and put words in peoples mouths? I make a statement that Eli is further along his career at this point in his career than Joe Montana was and all of a sudden i said Eli Manning is better than Joe Montana;. Even pro-eli folk will admit hes not top of the chain in accuracy, but hes also not bottom of hte pack which is the perception that the haters put off. Listen, the number of eli haters was hushed up after the superbowl win, but those of us that have been around for the past coupl of years have BRAWLED on here over this topic. When unfair shots are taken, people stick up for our QB. You try and say we're too touchy. Well no, we just don't want to hear the garbage anymore.</P>


I have been around for the last 3-4 years and I've read all that stuff.* What's being unfair?* Saying that thus far (as of a coupl years ago) Eli hasn't been worth the draft picks?* That the Chargers got the better end of the deal?* Or by saying that Eli is just an average QB?* Is that being unfair?* No.* Those are completely valid arguments.</P>


And yes, you are one of the many that are far too touchy.** You turned valid arguments and maybe a bit of poking fun into a brawl.* </P>


And about accuracy, Eli could very well be the bottom of the chain relative to his peers.* Let me say that again Matt because you seem extremely dense and only see what you want to see.* Relative to his peers.* If you want to me to explain that also let me know.</P>

his peers would be any QB in the league so you can explain it if you want but that is what it is.

Whats being unfair? Well first the fact that Eli was labeled as a bust after two years here. I guess we really shouldn't call the ignorant unfair, they are just ignorant and don't know any better. Because Eli got his pass for his playoff performance last year. At the end of the regular season last year he was getting killed worse than ever and yet he had better starts to his career tahn Elway, Montana, and a bunch of other stud QBs.

Its not that im touchy, i just hate the uninformed everything needs to happen now or it never will NY mentality.

No Chargers didn't get the better end of the deal. WE WON A SUPERBOWL, THEY DIDNT. How do u even argue with the trade lol. in the 04 and 05 years instead of getting Merriman, Rivers, and Kaeding we were able to get Plax, Pierce, and Eli...

Merriman would of been suspended for a couple of weeks of our superbowl year which if we lost one game we wouldn't of made the playoffs, hence not won it all..

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 10:56 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh.* Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is.* We point out Eli's flaws.* You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks.* We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have.* You say we make Ben to be perfect.* How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes?* Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli.* You make mountains out of molehills.* Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed.* But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize.* YOU turn it into 'hate'.
if you were as innocent and just "pointing things out", i doubt there would be such a backlash against the "haters"</P>


Read the beginning of this thread.* Ben is better then Eli.* In fact, what was written in the original post wasn't 'bashing' at all.* If you continue reading it was the other way around I think.* People got all in a huff and started bashing Ben to protect Eli.* Giggles didn't do anything but stand his ground the entire post while pro Eli folks were raising hell.</P>


so we are on a Giants message board and your trying to tell me that this thread isn't an attack on eli? Bro load up my bong with what ur smoking</P>


And tell me that if the subject was Eli just won his 2nd SB so he is better then Ben that people wouldn't be all happy and responding with yesses.* The original poster has a point with the Ben is better then Eli doesn't he/she?</P>


Ben is def the better QB as of right now at this point in their careers. But this is a Giants message board, with a subject ben is better than eli and you think Eli fans are being over the top? What was hte motivation of even making this thread? To take a shot at eli... It wasn't just some debate that eli homers can't handle, don't justify it as that either.</P>


I'm sure the thread was meant to instigate so may people reacted to that and not necessarily the contents.* But tell me that had someone said similar thing somewhere else, the he/she wouldn't get flamed for it.* Eh?</P>

hey bro let me come up to you while ur with ur girl and tell u how hot another chick in the room is and how ugly ur girl is

Would u get heated?

That same conversation could be had between me and my friends and nobody would care.

And if this were a general sports talk place it would of been alot more acceptable, but the intent on here is to discredit eli with bens success

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 11:05 AM
actually I was off about Merriman being suspended last year it was two years ago

gumby742
02-04-2009, 11:07 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh. Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is. We point out Eli's flaws. You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks. We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have. You say we make Ben to be perfect. How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes? Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli. You make mountains out of molehills. Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed. But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize. YOU turn it into 'hate'.
</P>


Gumby, lets be real. Very few people are talking about you, in particular. Just because you may actually be a realist, doesnt mean that the others are. Stop being so sensitive about whatpeople feel and assuming they mean you.</P>


I get lumped in with the homer crowd. It happens, I don't get upset about it and rail against the unfairness of it all. Though I realize that you might not be extreme, but I feeland many others feel that there are quite a few people here who just flat out hate Eli the player, not the man, I suppose but the player definitely. </P>


People defend. YOU turn it into 'homer'</P>


</P>


Actually the funny thing is, for me it's not even about who's a homer and who isn't. If anything i "should" get lumped in with the "hater" category because I'm just not a fan of Eli's. But my issue is that the lot of you put words in peoples mouths and blow things out of proportion. Pro Eli folk make the the criticism into something 10 times worse, yet have the gall to lament how Eli is getting slammed unfairly.</P>


You do realize that there are only a small handful of people who constantly stand here and criticize Eli right? In fact, when we just won the SB, I think there was maybe 1-2 people who were still criticizing him without saying anything good. But what do you see? "Oh man, all these Eli haters! What can he do to please you?"</P>


are u kidding me? Blow things up and put words in peoples mouths? I make a statement that Eli is further along his career at this point in his career than Joe Montana was and all of a sudden i said Eli Manning is better than Joe Montana;. Even pro-eli folk will admit hes not top of the chain in accuracy, but hes also not bottom of hte pack which is the perception that the haters put off. Listen, the number of eli haters was hushed up after the superbowl win, but those of us that have been around for the past coupl of years have BRAWLED on here over this topic. When unfair shots are taken, people stick up for our QB. You try and say we're too touchy. Well no, we just don't want to hear the garbage anymore.</P>


I have been around for the last 3-4 years and I've read all that stuff. What's being unfair? Saying that thus far (as of a coupl years ago) Eli hasn't been worth the draft picks? That the Chargers got the better end of the deal? Or by saying that Eli is just an average QB? Is that being unfair? No. Those are completely valid arguments.</P>


And yes, you are one of the many that are far too touchy. You turned valid arguments and maybe a bit of poking fun into a brawl. </P>


And about accuracy, Eli could very well be the bottom of the chain relative to his peers. Let me say that again Matt because you seem extremely dense and only see what you want to see. Relative to his peers. If you want to me to explain that also let me know.</P>


his peers would be any QB in the league so you can explain it if you want but that is what it is. Whats being unfair? Well first the fact that Eli was labeled as a bust after two years here. I guess we really shouldn't call the ignorant unfair, they are just ignorant and don't know any better. Because Eli got his pass for his playoff performance last year. At the end of the regular season last year he was getting killed worse than ever and yet he had better starts to his career tahn Elway, Montana, and a bunch of other stud QBs. Its not that im touchy, i just hate the uninformed everything needs to happen now or it never will NY mentality. No Chargers didn't get the better end of the deal. WE WON A SUPERBOWL, THEY DIDNT. How do u even argue with the trade lol. in the 04 and 05 years instead of getting Merriman, Rivers, and Kaeding we were able to get Plax, Pierce, and Eli... Merriman would of been suspended for a couple of weeks of our superbowl year which if we lost one game we wouldn't of made the playoffs, hence not won it all..</P>


Definition of peer - a person who is equal to another in abilities, qualifications, age, background, and social status. </P>


You're going to compare Eli with a rookie right? Tavaris Jackson maybe? Alex Smith? That's cr*p. Eli gets compared to people of his payscale - Rivers, Ben, Manning, Cutler, Brady, and whoever else. </P>


Seriously. Did you read my post in response to your dumb Montana post? Comparing QBs of different eras? Why don't you take any team today with consistency at QB and also extrapulate those numbers as well - Cutler, Delhomme, Bulger, Palmer, Rivers, Ben.They're all on par with all those guys. Infact, Eli's numbers may pale in comparison to theirs. So what's your point? Eli is average? You just shot yourself in the foot. In fact, don't do it by 16 years played, do it by GAMES STARTED. Montana missed some seasons completely and only played half in some others.</P>


You dimwit. You just proved my point. You're already getting flustered just thinking about those statements. Chill. Before the post season of last year, those weren't valid arguments? Like, there's absolutely no semblence of a valid point in any of those statements. Put yourself in a non Giants fans shoes? What would you think then?</P>

gumby742
02-04-2009, 11:10 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh. Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is. We point out Eli's flaws. You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks. We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have. You say we make Ben to be perfect. How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes? Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli. You make mountains out of molehills. Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed. But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize. YOU turn it into 'hate'.
if you were as innocent and just "pointing things out", i doubt there would be such a backlash against the "haters"</P>


Read the beginning of this thread. Ben is better then Eli. In fact, what was written in the original post wasn't 'bashing' at all. If you continue reading it was the other way around I think. People got all in a huff and started bashing Ben to protect Eli. Giggles didn't do anything but stand his ground the entire post while pro Eli folks were raising hell.</P>


so we are on a Giants message board and your trying to tell me that this thread isn't an attack on eli? Bro load up my bong with what ur smoking</P>


And tell me that if the subject was Eli just won his 2nd SB so he is better then Ben that people wouldn't be all happy and responding with yesses. The original poster has a point with the Ben is better then Eli doesn't he/she?</P>


Ben is def the better QB as of right now at this point in their careers. But this is a Giants message board, with a subject ben is better than eli and you think Eli fans are being over the top? What was hte motivation of even making this thread? To take a shot at eli... It wasn't just some debate that eli homers can't handle, don't justify it as that either.</P>


I'm sure the thread was meant to instigate so may people reacted to that and not necessarily the contents. But tell me that had someone said similar thing somewhere else, the he/she wouldn't get flamed for it. Eh?</P>


hey bro let me come up to you while ur with ur girl and tell u how hot another chick in the room is and how ugly ur girl is Would u get heated? That same conversation could be had between me and my friends and nobody would care. And if this were a general sports talk place it would of been alot more acceptable, but the intent on here is to discredit eli with bens success</P>


No it wouldn't. Because i know exactly who i have as a wife. That and don't give a rats butt what some irrelevant person thinks.</P>

Grande Azul
02-04-2009, 11:11 AM
You know Azul; there is something to be said for someone who man's up to his mistakes and doesn't make excuses. It's called class. If Eli blamed the wind, his teammates, the game plan, etc, people would kill him for it. He takes the high road, acts like a gentleman, and is lambasted for that?</p>


I'll take the guy who plays the right way rather than some emotionally wild qb who is unable to stay on an even keel regardless of the circumstances around him. </p>

Zeph tell me how Eli has Man'd up? I didn't ask for Eli to start throwing anyone under the bus! Why can't Eli admit to his shortcomings is all. So admitting to what we all witnessed against philly is weakness or unclassy? None of the QB's mentioned are emotionally wild or they wouldn't be in the NFL. Taking the high road would be admitting that he's human and not perfect but to say that they didn't execute is lame. Eli laid out the philly loss as a team failure instead of accepting the loss as his own, is that taking the high road? Why not admit he didn't get it done or couldn't get it done? One TD in the last 5 games is what a fluke or a trend? Why can't he admit that he needed Plax out there? I don't want Eli to go all Tiki on everyone but a QB's job is to elevate those around him, be a leader of men and make those in the huddle believe that no matter what the QB is gonna get the job done. Less we forget that 07 team was Strahan's team. Mike missed all of training camp and still was voted defensive captain. Why because those men in that locker room believed at the end of the day Mike would be out there no matter what even after taken 12 years of abuse to his body so that he could make a difference. But before Mike did that he realized he couldn't be the same player and admitted the only way to survive was to change so if Strahan and Coughlin can do it why can't Eli?

Gianthunter
02-04-2009, 11:13 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh. Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is. We point out Eli's flaws. You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks. We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have. You say we make Ben to be perfect. How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes? Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli. You make mountains out of molehills. Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed. But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize. YOU turn it into 'hate'.
</P>


Gumby, lets be real. Very few people are talking about you, in particular. Just because you may actually be a realist, doesnt mean that the others are. Stop being so sensitive about whatpeople feel and assuming they mean you.</P>


I get lumped in with the homer crowd. It happens, I don't get upset about it and rail against the unfairness of it all. Though I realize that you might not be extreme, but I feeland many others feel that there are quite a few people here who just flat out hate Eli the player, not the man, I suppose but the player definitely. </P>


People defend. YOU turn it into 'homer'</P>


</P>


Actually the funny thing is, for me it's not even about who's a homer and who isn't. If anything i "should" get lumped in with the "hater" category because I'm just not a fan of Eli's. But my issue is that the lot of you put words in peoples mouths and blow things out of proportion. Pro Eli folk make the the criticism into something 10 times worse, yet have the gall to lament how Eli is getting slammed unfairly.</P>


You do realize that there are only a small handful of people who constantly stand here and criticize Eli right? In fact, when we just won the SB, I think there was maybe 1-2 people who were still criticizing him without saying anything good. But what do you see? "Oh man, all these Eli haters! What can he do to please you?"</P>But then there is "all these Eli supporters why can't they see the truth like we do".

Bleedin Blue Since '62
02-04-2009, 11:15 AM
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu310/jpalumbo77/CRYING.jpg</P>


<FONT color=#0000ff>You guys are upseting me with all this tension!</FONT></P>


<FONT color=#0000ff>Can you PM me in 6 years when this situation is resolved and we have a unanoymous choice as the better of the two QB's? Thanks</FONT></P>

Bashum_Blue
02-04-2009, 11:17 AM
You know Azul; there is something to be said for someone who man's up to his mistakes and doesn't make excuses. It's called class. If Eli blamed the wind, his teammates, the game plan, etc, people would kill him for it. He takes the high road, acts like a gentleman, and is lambasted for that?</p>


I'll take the guy who plays the right way rather than some emotionally wild qb who is unable to stay on an even keel regardless of the circumstances around him. </p>

Zeph tell me how Eli has Man'd up? I didn't ask for Eli to start throwing anyone under the bus! Why can't Eli admit to his shortcomings is all. So admitting to what we all witnessed against philly is weakness or unclassy? None of the QB's mentioned are emotionally wild or they wouldn't be in the NFL. Taking the high road would be admitting that he's human and not perfect but to say that they didn't execute is lame. Eli laid out the philly loss as a team failure instead of accepting the loss as his own, is that taking the high road. Why not admit he didn't get it done or couldn't get it done? One TD in the last 5 games is what a fluke or a trend? Why can't he admit that he needed Plax out there? I don't want Eli to go all Tiki on everyone but a QB's job is to elevate those around him, be a leader of men and make those in the huddle believe that no matter what the QB is gonna get the job done. Lest we forget that 07 team was Strahan's team. Mike missed all of training camp and still was voted defensive captain. Why because those men in that locker room believed at the end of the day Mike would be out there no matter what even after taken 12 years of abuse to his body so that he couold make a difference. But before Mike did that he realized he couldn't be he same player and admitted the only way to survive was to change so if Strahan and Coughlin can do it why can't Eli?


You don't watch much football do you? If you do you don't watch much Giant's football. Eli constantly takes blame for losses. A QB's job is to win and Eli does win and he does elevate the players around him. If you ever pay attention to Eli he uses the word "We" a lot instead of the word "I or Me". It's all about the team for the team always. That's what being a nfl football team is all about. I digress. Some of you guys are just not all there in the noggin. Or you're just iggle fans trying to get the Giants fans riled up. Eli is a great qb and is here until he retires. He's already got one ring, one pro bowl, and one superbowl mvp under his belt. Wonder what happens the next 5-10 years? All you so called "realists" are blinded by your hate and stupidity.

gumby742
02-04-2009, 11:25 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh. Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is. We point out Eli's flaws. You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks. We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have. You say we make Ben to be perfect. How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes? Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli. You make mountains out of molehills. Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed. But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize. YOU turn it into 'hate'.
</P>


Gumby, lets be real. Very few people are talking about you, in particular. Just because you may actually be a realist, doesnt mean that the others are. Stop being so sensitive about whatpeople feel and assuming they mean you.</P>


I get lumped in with the homer crowd. It happens, I don't get upset about it and rail against the unfairness of it all. Though I realize that you might not be extreme, but I feeland many others feel that there are quite a few people here who just flat out hate Eli the player, not the man, I suppose but the player definitely. </P>


People defend. YOU turn it into 'homer'</P>


</P>


Actually the funny thing is, for me it's not even about who's a homer and who isn't. If anything i "should" get lumped in with the "hater" category because I'm just not a fan of Eli's. But my issue is that the lot of you put words in peoples mouths and blow things out of proportion. Pro Eli folk make the the criticism into something 10 times worse, yet have the gall to lament how Eli is getting slammed unfairly.</P>


You do realize that there are only a small handful of people who constantly stand here and criticize Eli right? In fact, when we just won the SB, I think there was maybe 1-2 people who were still criticizing him without saying anything good. But what do you see? "Oh man, all these Eli haters! What can he do to please you?"</P>


But then there is "all these Eli supporters why can't they see the truth like we do".</P>


*insert religion discussion here*. If you're in the majority, you shouldn't care or even worry about what a few bad apples think right?</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 11:27 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh.* Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is.* We point out Eli's flaws.* You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks.* We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have.* You say we make Ben to be perfect.* How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes?* Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli.* You make mountains out of molehills.* Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed.* But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize.* YOU turn it into 'hate'.
</P>


Gumby, lets be real. Very few people are talking about you, in particular. Just because you may actually be a realist, doesnt mean that the others are. Stop being so sensitive about what*people feel and assuming they mean you.</P>


I get lumped in with the homer crowd. It happens, I don't get upset about it and rail against the unfairness of it all. Though I realize that you might not be extreme, but I feel*and many others feel that there are quite a few people here who just flat out hate Eli the player, not the man, I suppose but the player definitely. </P>


People defend. YOU turn it into 'homer'</P>


</P>


Actually the funny thing is, for me it's not even about who's a homer and who isn't.* If anything i "should" get lumped in with the "hater" category because I'm just not a fan of Eli's.* But my issue is that the lot of you put words in peoples mouths and blow things out of proportion.** Pro Eli folk make the the criticism into something 10 times worse, yet have the gall to lament how Eli is getting slammed unfairly.</P>


You do realize that there are only a small handful of people who constantly stand here and criticize Eli right?* In fact, when we just won the SB, I think there was maybe 1-2 people who were still criticizing him without saying anything good.* But what do you see?* "Oh man, all these Eli haters!* What can he do to please you?"</P>


are u kidding me? Blow things up and put words in peoples mouths? I make a statement that Eli is further along his career at this point in his career than Joe Montana was and all of a sudden i said Eli Manning is better than Joe Montana;. Even pro-eli folk will admit hes not top of the chain in accuracy, but hes also not bottom of hte pack which is the perception that the haters put off. Listen, the number of eli haters was hushed up after the superbowl win, but those of us that have been around for the past coupl of years have BRAWLED on here over this topic. When unfair shots are taken, people stick up for our QB. You try and say we're too touchy. Well no, we just don't want to hear the garbage anymore.</P>


I have been around for the last 3-4 years and I've read all that stuff.* What's being unfair?* Saying that thus far (as of a coupl years ago) Eli hasn't been worth the draft picks?* That the Chargers got the better end of the deal?* Or by saying that Eli is just an average QB?* Is that being unfair?* No.* Those are completely valid arguments.</P>


And yes, you are one of the many that are far too touchy.** You turned valid arguments and maybe a bit of poking fun into a brawl.* </P>


And about accuracy, Eli could very well be the bottom of the chain relative to his peers.* Let me say that again Matt because you seem extremely dense and only see what you want to see.* Relative to his peers.* If you want to me to explain that also let me know.</P>


his peers would be any QB in the league so you can explain it if you want but that is what it is. Whats being unfair? Well first the fact that Eli was labeled as a bust after two years here. I guess we really shouldn't call the ignorant unfair, they are just ignorant and don't know any better. Because Eli got his pass for his playoff performance last year. At the end of the regular season last year he was getting killed worse than ever and yet he had better starts to his career tahn Elway, Montana, and a bunch of other stud QBs. Its not that im touchy, i just hate the uninformed everything needs to happen now or it never will NY mentality. No Chargers didn't get the better end of the deal. WE WON A SUPERBOWL, THEY DIDNT. How do u even argue with the trade lol. in the 04 and 05 years instead of getting Merriman, Rivers, and Kaeding we were able to get Plax, Pierce, and Eli... Merriman would of been suspended for a couple of weeks of our superbowl year which if we lost one game we wouldn't of made the playoffs, hence not won it all..</P>


Definition of peer - a person who is equal to another in abilities, qualifications, age, background, and social status.* </P>


You're going to compare Eli with a rookie right?* Tavaris Jackson maybe?* Alex Smith?* That's cr*p.* Eli gets compared to people of his payscale - Rivers, Ben, Manning, Cutler, Brady, and whoever else.* </P>


Seriously.* Did you read my post in response to your dumb Montana post?* Comparing QBs of different eras?* Why don't you take any team today with consistency at QB and also extrapulate those numbers as well - Cutler, Delhomme, Bulger, Palmer, Rivers, Ben.*They're all on par with all those guys.* Infact, Eli's numbers may pale in comparison to theirs.* So what's your point?* *Eli is average?* You just shot yourself in the foot.* In fact, don't do it by 16 years played, do it by GAMES STARTED.* Montana missed some seasons completely and only played half in some others.</P>


You dimwit.* You just proved my point.* You're already getting flustered just thinking about those statements.** Chill.* Before the post season of last year, those weren't valid arguments?* Like, there's absolutely no semblence of a valid point in any of those statements.* Put yourself in a non Giants fans shoes?* What would you think then?</P>

Well i'm gonna say ager 24-34 would be considered the same age group.

Abilities? They are all quarterbacks.

Qualitifications? Starting quarterbacks in the nfl.

Would i compare Eli to a rookie? If the rookie is starting then yes. But I would also give the rookie the benefit of the doubt since this is the hardest position in the NFL to come in and take over.

It was a simple comment i made when Manningbowl said Eli is better than Montana, all I said was hes further along in his career than Montana was at this point and even still your trying to dissect it and kill me on the comment, but yea, IM the one blowing up the argument. I wasn't trying to make a case on this.

BUTTTT since u brought it up. Rivers has 4,000 and 20 tds less than eli

Ben and Eli are within 300 yards and 3 TD of each other.

Delholmmes first 5 years were weak total and came no where near eli

Cutler projected will have better numbers than eli after his first 5 years.

Bulger and Palmer have better numbers in first 5 years, flat out. So i'll concede that, but also get real, Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce and Hous and Ocho are different than plax and toomer

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 11:34 AM
and as for Montana missing games and not playing and bla bla bla, that makes difference. For once READ WAHT THE HELL I SAID ABOUT THE MONTANA/ELI COMPARISON.

AT THIS POINT IN THEIR CAREERS ELI HAS HAD MORE SUCCESS in Yards and TDs. The two major stats for a QB.

You keep trying to make it something more than that, so please recognize the fact that ur blowing up what im saying and taking it out of proportion.

NO THEY WERENT VALID ARGUMENTS. Anybody that thinks QBs should have the league down by their 4th year, just isn't realistic. You will kill eli for his stats, but ben has 300 more yards and 3 more tds and he is a role model for all QBs.

And for the 600th time, since u definitly don't read my entire posts, i've said at this point Ben is better than Eli, so from a a subjective football fan, yes its true. But when your on the GIants message boards starting this message is started to troll the topic. Ben success shouldn't be a knock on eli, but the OP and people like u and manningbowl try to make it out as that and then try and turn it around that those that stick up for eli are too sensative on it. Get real

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 11:35 AM
You know Azul; there is something to be said for someone who man's up to his mistakes and doesn't make excuses. It's called class. If Eli blamed the wind, his teammates, the game plan, etc, people would kill him for it. He takes the high road, acts like a gentleman, and is lambasted for that?</p>


I'll take the guy who plays the right way rather than some emotionally wild qb who is unable to stay on an even keel regardless of the circumstances around him. </p>

Zeph tell me how Eli has Man'd up? I didn't ask for Eli to start throwing anyone under the bus! Why can't Eli admit to his shortcomings is all. So admitting to what we all witnessed against philly is weakness or unclassy? None of the QB's mentioned are emotionally wild or they wouldn't be in the NFL. Taking the high road would be admitting that he's human and not perfect but to say that they didn't execute is lame. Eli laid out the philly loss as a team failure instead of accepting the loss as his own, is that taking the high road? Why not admit he didn't get it done or couldn't get it done?* One TD in the last 5 games is what a fluke or a trend? Why can't he admit that he needed Plax out there? I don't want Eli to go all Tiki on everyone but a QB's job is to elevate those around him, be a leader of men and make those in the huddle believe that no matter what the QB is gonna get the job done. Less we forget that 07 team was Strahan's team. Mike missed all of training camp and still was voted defensive captain. Why because those men in that locker room believed at the end of the day Mike would be out there no matter what even after taken 12 years of abuse to his body so that he could make a difference. But before Mike did that he realized he couldn't be the same player and admitted the only way to survive was to change so if Strahan and Coughlin can do it why can't Eli?


he said he playd a bad game... what more do u want from him? lol. A detailed list of how he played bad?

Gianthunter
02-04-2009, 11:40 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh. Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is. We point out Eli's flaws. You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks. We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have. You say we make Ben to be perfect. How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes? Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli. You make mountains out of molehills. Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed. But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize. YOU turn it into 'hate'.
</P>


Gumby, lets be real. Very few people are talking about you, in particular. Just because you may actually be a realist, doesnt mean that the others are. Stop being so sensitive about whatpeople feel and assuming they mean you.</P>


I get lumped in with the homer crowd. It happens, I don't get upset about it and rail against the unfairness of it all. Though I realize that you might not be extreme, but I feeland many others feel that there are quite a few people here who just flat out hate Eli the player, not the man, I suppose but the player definitely. </P>


People defend. YOU turn it into 'homer'</P>


</P>


Actually the funny thing is, for me it's not even about who's a homer and who isn't. If anything i "should" get lumped in with the "hater" category because I'm just not a fan of Eli's. But my issue is that the lot of you put words in peoples mouths and blow things out of proportion. Pro Eli folk make the the criticism into something 10 times worse, yet have the gall to lament how Eli is getting slammed unfairly.</P>


You do realize that there are only a small handful of people who constantly stand here and criticize Eli right? In fact, when we just won the SB, I think there was maybe 1-2 people who were still criticizing him without saying anything good. But what do you see? "Oh man, all these Eli haters! What can he do to please you?"</P>


But then there is "all these Eli supporters why can't they see the truth like we do".</P>


*insert religion discussion here*. If you're in the majority, you shouldn't care or even worry about what a few bad apples think right?</P>


Simply pointing out how absurd your quote is. You loose all credibilty when you are what you rail against. And it would not be a good idea to bring in a religion discussion here. You at least must know that by now?</P>


*footnote* Poo flinging monkeys never care if they get any on themselves.</P>

Grande Azul
02-04-2009, 11:44 AM
Bashum I never miss a game going back to '80 and every post game conference since '96 and Eli will always speak in generalizations or admit to having to see the tape before he can comment if a reporter sees something he didn't. There is no doubt Eli will never mention anyone by name when it comes to failure but that includes himself. Granted at the end of the day that's the coaches job but why can't Eli change just a little. Phil did it, so did Hoss and even Kerry admitted to adjusting to NY so why can't Eli? If he does he'll be better for it and what happens if we lock him up long term and he loses an other Home playoff game that's 0-3 at home in the playoffs. Why does he play better on the road? Has he really embraced New York? Eli has even admitted that he wouldn't live in NY if he didn't play here or after he's done playing. I understand NY isn't for everyone but don't forget he wanted out in San Diego and would NY be his first choice if his pop didn't push the issue. He's my QB and I'll defend him to the utmost but he needs to change and embrace the Giant faithful and understand that everyone needs to grow and part of that process is admitting to your short comings like he did when he went to Coughlin and said they need to scale back the offense. Nothing since then! Not that it would ever happen but would it be wrong to ask Phil about how he handled the wind. Westbrook swallowed his pride and asked Barber for his workout regiment and became better because of it. We all need help sometimes and admitting that is the first step to recovery. I want Eli to get better, I want him to succeed, I want to love him but it's a two way street. I'll show you mine when he shows me his!!!!!

Bluedude2
02-04-2009, 11:45 AM
there are some straight haters and they work their way into many threads. There is always a pro-Eli thread and an Anti-Eli thread in the top 15 threads. </P>


A little something for everyone.</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 11:47 AM
Bashum I never miss a game going back to '80 and every post game conference since '96 and Eli will always speak in generalizations or admit to having to see the tape before he can comment if a reporter sees something he didn't. There is no doubt Eli will never mention anyone by name when it comes to failure but that includes himself. Granted at the end of the day that's the coaches job but why can't Eli change just a little. Phil did it, so did Hoss and even Kerry admitted to adjusting to NY so why can't Eli? If he does he'll be better for it and what happens if we lock him up long term and he loses an other Home playoff game that's 0-3 at home in the playoffs. Why does he play better on the road? Has he really embraced New York? Eli has even admitted that he wouldn't live in NY if he didn't play here or after he's done playing. I understand NY isn't for everyone but don't forget he wanted out in San Diego and would NY be his first choice if his pop didn't push the issue. He's my QB and I'll defend him to the utmost but he needs to change and embrace the Giant faithful and understand that everyone needs to grow and part of that process is admitting to your short comings like he did when he went to Coughlin and said they need to scale back the offense. Nothing since then! Not that it would ever happen but would it be wrong to ask Phil about how he handled the wind. Westbrook swallowed his pride and asked Barber for his workout regiment and became better because of it. We all need help sometimes and admitting that is the first step to recovery. I want Eli to get better, I want him to succeed, I want to love him but it's a two way street. I'll show you mine when he shows me his!!!!!


Hes a superbowl champion/mvp he has had success in the league already

gumby742
02-04-2009, 11:54 AM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh. Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is. We point out Eli's flaws. You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks. We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have. You say we make Ben to be perfect. How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes? Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli. You make mountains out of molehills. Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed. But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize. YOU turn it into 'hate'.
</P>


Gumby, lets be real. Very few people are talking about you, in particular. Just because you may actually be a realist, doesnt mean that the others are. Stop being so sensitive about whatpeople feel and assuming they mean you.</P>


I get lumped in with the homer crowd. It happens, I don't get upset about it and rail against the unfairness of it all. Though I realize that you might not be extreme, but I feeland many others feel that there are quite a few people here who just flat out hate Eli the player, not the man, I suppose but the player definitely. </P>


People defend. YOU turn it into 'homer'</P>


</P>


Actually the funny thing is, for me it's not even about who's a homer and who isn't. If anything i "should" get lumped in with the "hater" category because I'm just not a fan of Eli's. But my issue is that the lot of you put words in peoples mouths and blow things out of proportion. Pro Eli folk make the the criticism into something 10 times worse, yet have the gall to lament how Eli is getting slammed unfairly.</P>


You do realize that there are only a small handful of people who constantly stand here and criticize Eli right? In fact, when we just won the SB, I think there was maybe 1-2 people who were still criticizing him without saying anything good. But what do you see? "Oh man, all these Eli haters! What can he do to please you?"</P>


are u kidding me? Blow things up and put words in peoples mouths? I make a statement that Eli is further along his career at this point in his career than Joe Montana was and all of a sudden i said Eli Manning is better than Joe Montana;. Even pro-eli folk will admit hes not top of the chain in accuracy, but hes also not bottom of hte pack which is the perception that the haters put off. Listen, the number of eli haters was hushed up after the superbowl win, but those of us that have been around for the past coupl of years have BRAWLED on here over this topic. When unfair shots are taken, people stick up for our QB. You try and say we're too touchy. Well no, we just don't want to hear the garbage anymore.</P>


I have been around for the last 3-4 years and I've read all that stuff. What's being unfair? Saying that thus far (as of a coupl years ago) Eli hasn't been worth the draft picks? That the Chargers got the better end of the deal? Or by saying that Eli is just an average QB? Is that being unfair? No. Those are completely valid arguments.</P>


And yes, you are one of the many that are far too touchy. You turned valid arguments and maybe a bit of poking fun into a brawl. </P>


And about accuracy, Eli could very well be the bottom of the chain relative to his peers. Let me say that again Matt because you seem extremely dense and only see what you want to see. Relative to his peers. If you want to me to explain that also let me know.</P>


his peers would be any QB in the league so you can explain it if you want but that is what it is. Whats being unfair? Well first the fact that Eli was labeled as a bust after two years here. I guess we really shouldn't call the ignorant unfair, they are just ignorant and don't know any better. Because Eli got his pass for his playoff performance last year. At the end of the regular season last year he was getting killed worse than ever and yet he had better starts to his career tahn Elway, Montana, and a bunch of other stud QBs. Its not that im touchy, i just hate the uninformed everything needs to happen now or it never will NY mentality. No Chargers didn't get the better end of the deal. WE WON A SUPERBOWL, THEY DIDNT. How do u even argue with the trade lol. in the 04 and 05 years instead of getting Merriman, Rivers, and Kaeding we were able to get Plax, Pierce, and Eli... Merriman would of been suspended for a couple of weeks of our superbowl year which if we lost one game we wouldn't of made the playoffs, hence not won it all..</P>


Definition of peer - a person who is equal to another in abilities, qualifications, age, background, and social status. </P>


You're going to compare Eli with a rookie right? Tavaris Jackson maybe? Alex Smith? That's cr*p. Eli gets compared to people of his payscale - Rivers, Ben, Manning, Cutler, Brady, and whoever else. </P>


Seriously. Did you read my post in response to your dumb Montana post? Comparing QBs of different eras? Why don't you take any team today with consistency at QB and also extrapulate those numbers as well - Cutler, Delhomme, Bulger, Palmer, Rivers, Ben.They're all on par with all those guys. Infact, Eli's numbers may pale in comparison to theirs. So what's your point? Eli is average? You just shot yourself in the foot. In fact, don't do it by 16 years played, do it by GAMES STARTED. Montana missed some seasons completely and only played half in some others.</P>


You dimwit. You just proved my point. You're already getting flustered just thinking about those statements. Chill. Before the post season of last year, those weren't valid arguments? Like, there's absolutely no semblence of a valid point in any of those statements. Put yourself in a non Giants fans shoes? What would you think then?</P>


Well i'm gonna say ager 24-34 would be considered the same age group. Abilities? They are all quarterbacks. Qualitifications? Starting quarterbacks in the nfl. Would i compare Eli to a rookie? If the rookie is starting then yes. But I would also give the rookie the benefit of the doubt since this is the hardest position in the NFL to come in and take over. It was a simple comment i made when Manningbowl said Eli is better than Montana, all I said was hes further along in his career than Montana was at this point and even still your trying to dissect it and kill me on the comment, but yea, IM the one blowing up the argument. I wasn't trying to make a case on this. BUTTTT since u brought it up. Rivers has 4,000 and 20 tds less than eli Ben and Eli are within 300 yards and 3 TD of each other. Delholmmes first 5 years were weak total and came no where near eli Cutler projected will have better numbers than eli after his first 5 years. Bulger and Palmer have better numbers in first 5 years, flat out. So i'll concede that, but also get real, Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce and Hous and Ocho are different than plax and toomer</P>


Your interpretation of "peer" is exactly your problem. You see what you want to see and skew facts and everything else so that it fits your agenda. </P>


Lol. Exactly Eli's numbers are nothing special. All those QBs are in the same boat. And I highly doubt your stats are accurate so after a cursory glance:</P>


Games started not years played. Rivers games started: 32 Eli: 55 Ben: 55 It means that your Rivers comparison isnot valid. Where's the Completion percentage? I'll leave it at that.</P>


And when did i turn this into a Rivers vs Ben vs Eli thing? YOU DID. "Buuuuuuut since i brought it up"</P>


My god, talking to you use like talking to an egocentric infant. You _just_don't_get_ it. And even if you do, it's uncomfortable and you dismiss it like a bad dream.</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 12:09 PM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh.* Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is.* We point out Eli's flaws.* You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks.* We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have.* You say we make Ben to be perfect.* How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes?* Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli.* You make mountains out of molehills.* Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed.* But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize.* YOU turn it into 'hate'.
</P>


Gumby, lets be real. Very few people are talking about you, in particular. Just because you may actually be a realist, doesnt mean that the others are. Stop being so sensitive about what*people feel and assuming they mean you.</P>


I get lumped in with the homer crowd. It happens, I don't get upset about it and rail against the unfairness of it all. Though I realize that you might not be extreme, but I feel*and many others feel that there are quite a few people here who just flat out hate Eli the player, not the man, I suppose but the player definitely. </P>


People defend. YOU turn it into 'homer'</P>


</P>


Actually the funny thing is, for me it's not even about who's a homer and who isn't.* If anything i "should" get lumped in with the "hater" category because I'm just not a fan of Eli's.* But my issue is that the lot of you put words in peoples mouths and blow things out of proportion.** Pro Eli folk make the the criticism into something 10 times worse, yet have the gall to lament how Eli is getting slammed unfairly.</P>


You do realize that there are only a small handful of people who constantly stand here and criticize Eli right?* In fact, when we just won the SB, I think there was maybe 1-2 people who were still criticizing him without saying anything good.* But what do you see?* "Oh man, all these Eli haters!* What can he do to please you?"</P>


are u kidding me? Blow things up and put words in peoples mouths? I make a statement that Eli is further along his career at this point in his career than Joe Montana was and all of a sudden i said Eli Manning is better than Joe Montana;. Even pro-eli folk will admit hes not top of the chain in accuracy, but hes also not bottom of hte pack which is the perception that the haters put off. Listen, the number of eli haters was hushed up after the superbowl win, but those of us that have been around for the past coupl of years have BRAWLED on here over this topic. When unfair shots are taken, people stick up for our QB. You try and say we're too touchy. Well no, we just don't want to hear the garbage anymore.</P>


I have been around for the last 3-4 years and I've read all that stuff.* What's being unfair?* Saying that thus far (as of a coupl years ago) Eli hasn't been worth the draft picks?* That the Chargers got the better end of the deal?* Or by saying that Eli is just an average QB?* Is that being unfair?* No.* Those are completely valid arguments.</P>


And yes, you are one of the many that are far too touchy.** You turned valid arguments and maybe a bit of poking fun into a brawl.* </P>


And about accuracy, Eli could very well be the bottom of the chain relative to his peers.* Let me say that again Matt because you seem extremely dense and only see what you want to see.* Relative to his peers.* If you want to me to explain that also let me know.</P>


his peers would be any QB in the league so you can explain it if you want but that is what it is. Whats being unfair? Well first the fact that Eli was labeled as a bust after two years here. I guess we really shouldn't call the ignorant unfair, they are just ignorant and don't know any better. Because Eli got his pass for his playoff performance last year. At the end of the regular season last year he was getting killed worse than ever and yet he had better starts to his career tahn Elway, Montana, and a bunch of other stud QBs. Its not that im touchy, i just hate the uninformed everything needs to happen now or it never will NY mentality. No Chargers didn't get the better end of the deal. WE WON A SUPERBOWL, THEY DIDNT. How do u even argue with the trade lol. in the 04 and 05 years instead of getting Merriman, Rivers, and Kaeding we were able to get Plax, Pierce, and Eli... Merriman would of been suspended for a couple of weeks of our superbowl year which if we lost one game we wouldn't of made the playoffs, hence not won it all..</P>


Definition of peer - a person who is equal to another in abilities, qualifications, age, background, and social status.* </P>


You're going to compare Eli with a rookie right?* Tavaris Jackson maybe?* Alex Smith?* That's cr*p.* Eli gets compared to people of his payscale - Rivers, Ben, Manning, Cutler, Brady, and whoever else.* </P>


Seriously.* Did you read my post in response to your dumb Montana post?* Comparing QBs of different eras?* Why don't you take any team today with consistency at QB and also extrapulate those numbers as well - Cutler, Delhomme, Bulger, Palmer, Rivers, Ben.*They're all on par with all those guys.* Infact, Eli's numbers may pale in comparison to theirs.* So what's your point?* *Eli is average?* You just shot yourself in the foot.* In fact, don't do it by 16 years played, do it by GAMES STARTED.* Montana missed some seasons completely and only played half in some others.</P>


You dimwit.* You just proved my point.* You're already getting flustered just thinking about those statements.** Chill.* Before the post season of last year, those weren't valid arguments?* Like, there's absolutely no semblence of a valid point in any of those statements.* Put yourself in a non Giants fans shoes?* What would you think then?</P>


Well i'm gonna say ager 24-34 would be considered the same age group. Abilities? They are all quarterbacks. Qualitifications? Starting quarterbacks in the nfl. Would i compare Eli to a rookie? If the rookie is starting then yes. But I would also give the rookie the benefit of the doubt since this is the hardest position in the NFL to come in and take over. It was a simple comment i made when Manningbowl said Eli is better than Montana, all I said was hes further along in his career than Montana was at this point and even still your trying to dissect it and kill me on the comment, but yea, IM the one blowing up the argument. I wasn't trying to make a case on this. BUTTTT since u brought it up. Rivers has 4,000 and 20 tds less than eli Ben and Eli are within 300 yards and 3 TD of each other. Delholmmes first 5 years were weak total and came no where near eli Cutler projected will have better numbers than eli after his first 5 years. Bulger and Palmer have better numbers in first 5 years, flat out. So i'll concede that, but also get real, Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce and Hous and Ocho are different than plax and toomer</P>


Your interpretation of "peer" is exactly your problem.* You see what you want to see and skew facts and everything else so that it fits your agenda.* </P>


Lol.* Exactly Eli's numbers are nothing special.** All those QBs are in the same boat.* And I highly doubt your stats are accurate so after a cursory glance:</P>


Games started not years played. Rivers games started:* 32 Eli: 55 Ben: 55** It means that your Rivers comparison is*not valid.* Where's the Completion percentage?* I'll leave it at that.</P>


And when did i turn this into a Rivers vs Ben vs Eli thing?* YOU DID. "Buuuuuuut since i brought it up"</P>


My god, talking to you use like talking to an egocentric infant.* You _just_don't_get_ it.* And even if you do, it's uncomfortable and you dismiss it like a bad dream.</P>

and again its like talking to a wall. My stats are not skewed.

Just because Rivers wasn't the starter his first year or so doesn't take away the fact that Eli has had more success.

Now i'd like to take this time in my post, for a new segment: USING GUMBYS OWN WORDS AGAINST HIM:

1.) "Wheres the completion percentage? I'll leave it at that"

A: Yesterday, completion percentage didn't mean anything. I can bump ur post if u want me to.

2.) "you skew facts".

A: Listen, I made one comment about after 5 years, what are the numbers and u've tried to skew the argument your way and tell me im unfair and bla bla bla. All i said was Eli has better numbers than Montana did after 5 years but yet Eli gets killed with no hope of being anything more than average. Your the one bringing everything up and trying to denounce what I said. YOUR the one skewing the facts, because your making this an argument and trying to lean it your way.

3) "When did I turn this into a rivers vs ben vs eli thing"?

A: Well the topic of this thread is ben vs eli, so you didn't do that. But waht u did to is tell me to compare rivers vs eli (his peers and when u listed 6 qbs to specifically compare him to). So THATS when you made it into a QBs of 04 debate.

4) "games started not years played"

A: This isn't the point I was making. Your trying to break it down and twist the argument to your views and make it a completely different argument than what my original comment was. But ur too ignorant to really grasp what ur doing so i'll just let it go. The fact that Rivers wasn't ready or good enough to QB his first 2 years makes zero difference. The fact is Eli was out there doing it, hence hes more far along than Rivers is after 5 years. WHAT THE HELL ARE U NOT GETTING.

Ps- egocentric infant? Just because ur "tarded again", don't take it on me.

The fact is, i made an initial point, that YOU JUST DONT GET. And ever since i've said u've tried to make this into an entirely different arguement. You my friend are mutt of the week

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 12:10 PM
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa120/meyerbud/dalmation1.jpg (http://s203.photobucket.com/albums/aa120/meyerbud/?action=view&current=dalmation1.jpg)

That one was for JB lol

gumby742
02-04-2009, 12:14 PM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh. Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is. We point out Eli's flaws. You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks. We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have. You say we make Ben to be perfect. How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes? Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli. You make mountains out of molehills. Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed. But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize. YOU turn it into 'hate'.
</P>


Gumby, lets be real. Very few people are talking about you, in particular. Just because you may actually be a realist, doesnt mean that the others are. Stop being so sensitive about whatpeople feel and assuming they mean you.</P>


I get lumped in with the homer crowd. It happens, I don't get upset about it and rail against the unfairness of it all. Though I realize that you might not be extreme, but I feeland many others feel that there are quite a few people here who just flat out hate Eli the player, not the man, I suppose but the player definitely. </P>


People defend. YOU turn it into 'homer'</P>


</P>


Actually the funny thing is, for me it's not even about who's a homer and who isn't. If anything i "should" get lumped in with the "hater" category because I'm just not a fan of Eli's. But my issue is that the lot of you put words in peoples mouths and blow things out of proportion. Pro Eli folk make the the criticism into something 10 times worse, yet have the gall to lament how Eli is getting slammed unfairly.</P>


You do realize that there are only a small handful of people who constantly stand here and criticize Eli right? In fact, when we just won the SB, I think there was maybe 1-2 people who were still criticizing him without saying anything good. But what do you see? "Oh man, all these Eli haters! What can he do to please you?"</P>


But then there is "all these Eli supporters why can't they see the truth like we do".</P>


*insert religion discussion here*. If you're in the majority, you shouldn't care or even worry about what a few bad apples think right?</P>


Simply pointing out how absurd your quote is. You loose all credibilty when you are what you rail against. And it would not be a good idea to bring in a religion discussion here. You at least must know that by now?</P>


*footnote* Poo flinging monkeys never care if they get any on themselves.</P>


</P>


Actually, you completely lost me. I am what I rail against? Oh right I think i know what your coming from. I think. My biggest beef with Eli supporters is that they make mountains out of molehills. What they don't realize is that they make the situation many times worse then what it actually is. With the way they drone on and on, you'd think that half this board is made up of the other contingent when in reality it's just a handfull.</P>


It isn't about forcing people with differing opinions to see eye to eye. It's one thing to agree, it's another to determine if a question is 'valid' - regardless of outcome. And if someone is merely raising a point or a question or a concern that could be a valid point, why get all huffy about it? </P>


However, if someone starts to use numbers and stats and other things I will call them out on it. Granted it's a lot easier to ***** and moan then it is to actually defend someone.</P>


lol. Don't know if this answers anything.</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 12:16 PM
gumby, its like u want to be one of the anti eli guys....

I have said it plenty of times and throughout this thread a couple of people even said it to u that ur not really one of the anti-eli guys we speak of. But u are defending urself like we are saying u are one of those trolls..

And what u've done throughout this thread, is exactly what u kill the eli defenders for

bELIeve_in_Giants
02-04-2009, 12:17 PM
For those who want Eli to show more emotion after a loss:
How would that change the fact we lost?

Bluedude2
02-04-2009, 12:17 PM
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa120/meyerbud/dalmation1.jpg (http://s203.photobucket.com/albums/aa120/meyerbud/?action=view&amp;current=dalmation1.jpg) That one was for JB lol That's not a mutt! Here a cute mutt-</P>


http://www.weenieinthewindow.com/img/testimonials/mixed-breed-dog-harness.jpg</P>


</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 12:18 PM
lol yea i know but that was a joke from last year with davenlll and jb giants lol

and of course the great Eli to Shockey who has disappeared... bastage

Bluedude2
02-04-2009, 12:21 PM
Ah, didn't get it. Again

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 12:24 PM
Ah, didn't get it. Again

haha it was a pissssing contest, kinda like this thread and that picture came up and i called jb a mutt and it was his avatar, good times

Bluedude2
02-04-2009, 12:31 PM
The thread should have been Benn is ahead of Eli two to one in SBs. </P>

gumby742
02-04-2009, 12:33 PM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh. Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is. We point out Eli's flaws. You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks. We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have. You say we make Ben to be perfect. How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes? Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli. You make mountains out of molehills. Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed. But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize. YOU turn it into 'hate'.
</P>


Gumby, lets be real. Very few people are talking about you, in particular. Just because you may actually be a realist, doesnt mean that the others are. Stop being so sensitive about whatpeople feel and assuming they mean you.</P>


I get lumped in with the homer crowd. It happens, I don't get upset about it and rail against the unfairness of it all. Though I realize that you might not be extreme, but I feeland many others feel that there are quite a few people here who just flat out hate Eli the player, not the man, I suppose but the player definitely. </P>


People defend. YOU turn it into 'homer'</P>


</P>


Actually the funny thing is, for me it's not even about who's a homer and who isn't. If anything i "should" get lumped in with the "hater" category because I'm just not a fan of Eli's. But my issue is that the lot of you put words in peoples mouths and blow things out of proportion. Pro Eli folk make the the criticism into something 10 times worse, yet have the gall to lament how Eli is getting slammed unfairly.</P>


You do realize that there are only a small handful of people who constantly stand here and criticize Eli right? In fact, when we just won the SB, I think there was maybe 1-2 people who were still criticizing him without saying anything good. But what do you see? "Oh man, all these Eli haters! What can he do to please you?"</P>


are u kidding me? Blow things up and put words in peoples mouths? I make a statement that Eli is further along his career at this point in his career than Joe Montana was and all of a sudden i said Eli Manning is better than Joe Montana;. Even pro-eli folk will admit hes not top of the chain in accuracy, but hes also not bottom of hte pack which is the perception that the haters put off. Listen, the number of eli haters was hushed up after the superbowl win, but those of us that have been around for the past coupl of years have BRAWLED on here over this topic. When unfair shots are taken, people stick up for our QB. You try and say we're too touchy. Well no, we just don't want to hear the garbage anymore.</P>


I have been around for the last 3-4 years and I've read all that stuff. What's being unfair? Saying that thus far (as of a coupl years ago) Eli hasn't been worth the draft picks? That the Chargers got the better end of the deal? Or by saying that Eli is just an average QB? Is that being unfair? No. Those are completely valid arguments.</P>


And yes, you are one of the many that are far too touchy. You turned valid arguments and maybe a bit of poking fun into a brawl. </P>


And about accuracy, Eli could very well be the bottom of the chain relative to his peers. Let me say that again Matt because you seem extremely dense and only see what you want to see. Relative to his peers. If you want to me to explain that also let me know.</P>


his peers would be any QB in the league so you can explain it if you want but that is what it is. Whats being unfair? Well first the fact that Eli was labeled as a bust after two years here. I guess we really shouldn't call the ignorant unfair, they are just ignorant and don't know any better. Because Eli got his pass for his playoff performance last year. At the end of the regular season last year he was getting killed worse than ever and yet he had better starts to his career tahn Elway, Montana, and a bunch of other stud QBs. Its not that im touchy, i just hate the uninformed everything needs to happen now or it never will NY mentality. No Chargers didn't get the better end of the deal. WE WON A SUPERBOWL, THEY DIDNT. How do u even argue with the trade lol. in the 04 and 05 years instead of getting Merriman, Rivers, and Kaeding we were able to get Plax, Pierce, and Eli... Merriman would of been suspended for a couple of weeks of our superbowl year which if we lost one game we wouldn't of made the playoffs, hence not won it all..</P>


Definition of peer - a person who is equal to another in abilities, qualifications, age, background, and social status. </P>


You're going to compare Eli with a rookie right? Tavaris Jackson maybe? Alex Smith? That's cr*p. Eli gets compared to people of his payscale - Rivers, Ben, Manning, Cutler, Brady, and whoever else. </P>


Seriously. Did you read my post in response to your dumb Montana post? Comparing QBs of different eras? Why don't you take any team today with consistency at QB and also extrapulate those numbers as well - Cutler, Delhomme, Bulger, Palmer, Rivers, Ben.They're all on par with all those guys. Infact, Eli's numbers may pale in comparison to theirs. So what's your point? Eli is average? You just shot yourself in the foot. In fact, don't do it by 16 years played, do it by GAMES STARTED. Montana missed some seasons completely and only played half in some others.</P>


You dimwit. You just proved my point. You're already getting flustered just thinking about those statements. Chill. Before the post season of last year, those weren't valid arguments? Like, there's absolutely no semblence of a valid point in any of those statements. Put yourself in a non Giants fans shoes? What would you think then?</P>


Well i'm gonna say ager 24-34 would be considered the same age group. Abilities? They are all quarterbacks. Qualitifications? Starting quarterbacks in the nfl. Would i compare Eli to a rookie? If the rookie is starting then yes. But I would also give the rookie the benefit of the doubt since this is the hardest position in the NFL to come in and take over. It was a simple comment i made when Manningbowl said Eli is better than Montana, all I said was hes further along in his career than Montana was at this point and even still your trying to dissect it and kill me on the comment, but yea, IM the one blowing up the argument. I wasn't trying to make a case on this. BUTTTT since u brought it up. Rivers has 4,000 and 20 tds less than eli Ben and Eli are within 300 yards and 3 TD of each other. Delholmmes first 5 years were weak total and came no where near eli Cutler projected will have better numbers than eli after his first 5 years. Bulger and Palmer have better numbers in first 5 years, flat out. So i'll concede that, but also get real, Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce and Hous and Ocho are different than plax and toomer</P>


Your interpretation of "peer" is exactly your problem. You see what you want to see and skew facts and everything else so that it fits your agenda. </P>


Lol. Exactly Eli's numbers are nothing special. All those QBs are in the same boat. And I highly doubt your stats are accurate so after a cursory glance:</P>


Games started not years played. Rivers games started: 32 Eli: 55 Ben: 55 It means that your Rivers comparison isnot valid. Where's the Completion percentage? I'll leave it at that.</P>


And when did i turn this into a Rivers vs Ben vs Eli thing? YOU DID. "Buuuuuuut since i brought it up"</P>


My god, talking to you use like talking to an egocentric infant. You _just_don't_get_ it. And even if you do, it's uncomfortable and you dismiss it like a bad dream.</P>


and again its like talking to a wall. My stats are not skewed. Just because Rivers wasn't the starter his first year or so doesn't take away the fact that Eli has had more success. Now i'd like to take this time in my post, for a new segment: USING GUMBYS OWN WORDS AGAINST HIM: 1.) "Wheres the completion percentage? I'll leave it at that" A: Yesterday, completion percentage didn't mean anything. I can bump ur post if u want me to. 2.) "you skew facts". A: Listen, I made one comment about after 5 years, what are the numbers and u've tried to skew the argument your way and tell me im unfair and bla bla bla. All i said was Eli has better numbers than Montana did after 5 years but yet Eli gets killed with no hope of being anything more than average. Your the one bringing everything up and trying to denounce what I said. YOUR the one skewing the facts, because your making this an argument and trying to lean it your way. 3) "When did I turn this into a rivers vs ben vs eli thing"? A: Well the topic of this thread is ben vs eli, so you didn't do that. But waht u did to is tell me to compare rivers vs eli (his peers and when u listed 6 qbs to specifically compare him to). So THATS when you made it into a QBs of 04 debate. 4) "games started not years played" A: This isn't the point I was making. Your trying to break it down and twist the argument to your views and make it a completely different argument than what my original comment was. But ur too ignorant to really grasp what ur doing so i'll just let it go. The fact that Rivers wasn't ready or good enough to QB his first 2 years makes zero difference. The fact is Eli was out there doing it, hence hes more far along than Rivers is after 5 years. WHAT THE HELL ARE U NOT GETTING. Ps- egocentric infant? Just because ur "tarded again", don't take it on me. The fact is, i made an initial point, that YOU JUST DONT GET. And ever since i've said u've tried to make this into an entirely different arguement. You my friend are mutt of the week</P>


/facepalm</P>

peerless
02-04-2009, 12:37 PM
i havent opened this thread since the day after the super bowl......i had to now just to say i cant believe this hogwash is still going on.............get over it man

Gianthunter
02-04-2009, 12:39 PM
The myopic anti's have a rose colored glasses view of Ben. But the Steelers Fans for the most part have a realistic view of Ben. The love him despite all his faults and enjoy his strengths.</P>


This pretty much sums it up. Ben has his faults too, but these people seem to think he doesn't. He's just as up and down as Eli, any Steeler fan will tell you that.</P>




Ugh. Now more then ever i believe that all you pro Eli people make the the Eli issue a much problem then it really is. We point out Eli's flaws. You take offense and put words on our mouth that we say he sucks. We point out the Ben has attributes that Eli doesn't have. You say we make Ben to be perfect. How many times have I said, we've won with Eli and that he's clutch under 2 minutes? Yet you choose to ignore it and maintain that we just hate Eli. You make mountains out of molehills. Yes, ***** all you want about Eli getting slammed. But the ironic thing is that people like you make it that way.

People criticisize. YOU turn it into 'hate'.
</P>


Gumby, lets be real. Very few people are talking about you, in particular. Just because you may actually be a realist, doesnt mean that the others are. Stop being so sensitive about whatpeople feel and assuming they mean you.</P>


I get lumped in with the homer crowd. It happens, I don't get upset about it and rail against the unfairness of it all. Though I realize that you might not be extreme, but I feeland many others feel that there are quite a few people here who just flat out hate Eli the player, not the man, I suppose but the player definitely. </P>


People defend. YOU turn it into 'homer'</P>


</P>


Actually the funny thing is, for me it's not even about who's a homer and who isn't. If anything i "should" get lumped in with the "hater" category because I'm just not a fan of Eli's. But my issue is that the lot of you put words in peoples mouths and blow things out of proportion. Pro Eli folk make the the criticism into something 10 times worse, yet have the gall to lament how Eli is getting slammed unfairly.</P>


You do realize that there are only a small handful of people who constantly stand here and criticize Eli right? In fact, when we just won the SB, I think there was maybe 1-2 people who were still criticizing him without saying anything good. But what do you see? "Oh man, all these Eli haters! What can he do to please you?"</P>


But then there is "all these Eli supporters why can't they see the truth like we do".</P>


*insert religion discussion here*. If you're in the majority, you shouldn't care or even worry about what a few bad apples think right?</P>


Simply pointing out how absurd your quote is. You loose all credibilty when you are what you rail against. And it would not be a good idea to bring in a religion discussion here. You at least must know that by now?</P>


*footnote* Poo flinging monkeys never care if they get any on themselves.</P>


</P>


Actually, you completely lost me. I am what I rail against? Oh right I think i know what your coming from. I think. My biggest beef with Eli supporters is that they make mountains out of molehills. What they don't realize is that they make the situation many times worse then what it actually is. With the way they drone on and on, you'd think that half this board is made up of the other contingent when in reality it's just a handfull.</P>


It isn't about forcing people with differing opinions to see eye to eye. It's one thing to agree, it's another to determine if a question is 'valid' - regardless of outcome. And if someone is merely raising a point or a question or a concern that could be a valid point, why get all huffy about it? </P>


However, if someone starts to use numbers and stats and other things I will call them out on it. Granted it's a lot easier to ***** and moan then it is to actually defend someone.</P>


lol. Don't know if this answers anything.</P>What Fair! Fair! You want to talk about FAIR! Love that commercial. Well to behonest as much as I like to think I'm fairminded and objective. I'm not. So it's easy to jump one way or the other. But hey the first step is admiting you have a problem. But I digress.I thinkthe ratio of ardent supporters and ardent detracters is pretty much equal. And to use comparisions and stats from the past is unequal at best. There are simply to many variables and outliers for that. Not to mention perseptions are to hard to quantify. But where the hell was I going with this?[8-)] [8-|] Oh yea it does answer somethings LOL. Thanks

gumby742
02-04-2009, 12:39 PM
gumby, its like u want to be one of the anti eli guys.... I have said it plenty of times and throughout this thread a couple of people even said it to u that ur not really one of the anti-eli guys we speak of. But u are defending urself like we are saying u are one of those trolls.. And what u've done throughout this thread, is exactly what u kill the eli defenders for</P>


The point has gotten lost. Hell, i don't even know what i'm talking about anymore. But let me copy and paste something in my respo9nse to Gianthunter:</P>


Actually, you completely lost me. I am what I rail against? Oh right I think i know what your coming from. I think. My biggest beef with Eli supporters is that they make mountains out of molehills. What they don't realize is that they make the situation many times worse then what it actually is. With the way they drone on and on, you'd think that half this board is made up of the other contingent when in reality it's just a handfull.</P>


It isn't about forcing people with differing opinions to see eye to eye. It's one thing to agree, it's another to determine if a question is 'valid' - regardless of outcome. And if someone is merely raising a point or a question or a concern that could be a valid point, why get all huffy about it? </P>


However, if someone starts to use numbers and stats and other things I will call them out on it. Granted it's a lot easier to *** and moan then it is to actually defend someone.</P>


So i'm not exactly defending anyone. I'm griping about you guys who completely blow stuff out of proportion. On top of that, when people don't really use statistics correctly, I'll point that out as well.</P>


People attacking Eli are just as guilty of this (using stats) as well, but the reason why i don't say anything is because they're usually instigated by pro Eli folk.</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 12:42 PM
gumby, its like u want to be one of the anti eli guys.... I have said it plenty of times and throughout this thread a couple of people even said it to u that ur not really one of the anti-eli guys we speak of. But u are defending urself like we are saying u are one of those trolls.. And what u've done throughout this thread, is exactly what u kill the eli defenders for</P>


The point has gotten lost.* Hell, i don't even know what i'm talking about anymore.* But let me copy and paste something in my respo9nse to Gianthunter:</P>


Actually, you completely lost me.* I am what I rail against?* Oh right I think i know what your coming from.* I think. My biggest beef with Eli supporters is that they make mountains out of molehills.* What they don't realize is that they make the situation many times worse then what it actually is.* With the way they drone on and on, you'd think that half this board is made up of the other contingent when in reality it's just a handfull.</P>


It isn't about forcing people with differing opinions to see eye to eye.* It's one thing to agree, it's another to determine if a question is 'valid' - regardless of outcome.*** And if someone is merely raising a point or a question or a concern that could be a valid point, why get all huffy about it?* </P>


However, if someone starts to use numbers and stats and other things I will call them out on it.* Granted it's a lot easier to *** and moan then it is to actually defend someone.</P>


So i'm not exactly defending anyone.* I'm griping about you guys who completely blow stuff out of proportion.* On top of that, when people don't really use statistics correctly, I'll point that out as well.</P>


People attacking Eli are just as guilty of this (using stats) as well, but the reason why i don't say anything is because they're usually instigated by pro Eli folk.</P>

ur gripe is with people blowing things out of proportion, while thats exactly what u've done with my "eli after 5 years stats" line...

ironic... isn't it


Don't use stats correctly? lol. Right there just shows ur bias.

Just curious, how do the pro-eli people instigate somebody to start a thread on their own?

I bet u blame Marilyn Manson for Columbine too lol

peerless
02-04-2009, 12:45 PM
STOP PLEASE JUST STOP IT [:@]

gumby742
02-04-2009, 12:46 PM
What Fair! Fair! You want to talk about FAIR! Love that commercial. Well to behonest as much as I like to think I'm fairminded and objective. I'm not. So it's easy to jump one way or the other. But hey the first step is admiting you have a problem. But I digress.I thinkthe ratio of ardent supporters and ardent detracters is pretty much equal. And to use comparisions and stats from the past is unequal at best. There are simply to many variables and outliers for that. Not to mention perseptions are to hard to quantify. But where the hell was I going with this?[8-)] [8-|] Oh yea it does answer somethings LOL. Thanks</P>


Hahaha. I think if this board was all kumbaya and everyone was singing songs, it would be far less interesting.</P>


It's all good fun. When work is slow you gotta do something.</P>

gumby742
02-04-2009, 12:47 PM
gumby, its like u want to be one of the anti eli guys.... I have said it plenty of times and throughout this thread a couple of people even said it to u that ur not really one of the anti-eli guys we speak of. But u are defending urself like we are saying u are one of those trolls.. And what u've done throughout this thread, is exactly what u kill the eli defenders for</P>


The point has gotten lost. Hell, i don't even know what i'm talking about anymore. But let me copy and paste something in my respo9nse to Gianthunter:</P>


Actually, you completely lost me. I am what I rail against? Oh right I think i know what your coming from. I think. My biggest beef with Eli supporters is that they make mountains out of molehills. What they don't realize is that they make the situation many times worse then what it actually is. With the way they drone on and on, you'd think that half this board is made up of the other contingent when in reality it's just a handfull.</P>


It isn't about forcing people with differing opinions to see eye to eye. It's one thing to agree, it's another to determine if a question is 'valid' - regardless of outcome. And if someone is merely raising a point or a question or a concern that could be a valid point, why get all huffy about it? </P>


However, if someone starts to use numbers and stats and other things I will call them out on it. Granted it's a lot easier to *** and moan then it is to actually defend someone.</P>


So i'm not exactly defending anyone. I'm griping about you guys who completely blow stuff out of proportion. On top of that, when people don't really use statistics correctly, I'll point that out as well.</P>


People attacking Eli are just as guilty of this (using stats) as well, but the reason why i don't say anything is because they're usually instigated by pro Eli folk.</P>


ur gripe is with people blowing things out of proportion, while thats exactly what u've done with my "eli after 5 years stats" line... ironic... isn't it Don't use stats correctly? lol. Right there just shows ur bias. Just curious, how do the pro-eli people instigate somebody to start a thread on their own? I bet u blame Marilyn Manson for Columbine too lol</P>


/facepalm</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 12:49 PM
haha the using ur own words against u thing really upset u didnt it

Zeph
02-04-2009, 02:46 PM
You know Azul; there is something to be said for someone who man's up to his mistakes and doesn't make excuses. It's called class. If Eli blamed the wind, his teammates, the game plan, etc, people would kill him for it. He takes the high road, acts like a gentleman, and is lambasted for that?</P>


I'll take the guy who plays the right way rather than some emotionally wild qb who is unable to stay on an even keel regardless of the circumstances around him. </P>




Zeph tell me how Eli has Man'd up? I didn't ask for Eli to start throwing anyone under the bus! Why can't Eli admit to his shortcomings is all. So admitting to what we all witnessed against philly is weakness or unclassy? None of the QB's mentioned are emotionally wild or they wouldn't be in the NFL. Taking the high road would be admitting that he's human and not perfect but to say that they didn't execute is lame. Eli laid out the philly loss as a team failure instead of accepting the loss as his own, is that taking the high road? Why not admit he didn't get it done or couldn't get it done? One TD in the last 5 games is what a fluke or a trend? Why can't he admit that he needed Plax out there? I don't want Eli to go all Tiki on everyone but a QB's job is to elevate those around him, be a leader of men and make those in the huddle believe that no matter what the QB is gonna get the job done. Less we forget that 07 team was Strahan's team. Mike missed all of training camp and still was voted defensive captain. Why because those men in that locker room believed at the end of the day Mike would be out there no matter what even after taken 12 years of abuse to his body so that he could make a difference. But before Mike did that he realized he couldn't be the same player and admitted the only way to survive was to change so if Strahan and Coughlin can do it why can't Eli?
</P>


Why should Eli say anything different then what he always says? When they win he doesn't say, you know what, I played sick today, without me, this team would have lost. They better pick it up. I can't carry the team on my shoulders the whole season. Why should he say I lost the game, which he basically does when he says I need to play better, which he does all the time. </P>


He did say he wished plax was there, but he was also being a leader when he said the team needs to move on. And if he harps too much on not having plax its like saying, the rest of my recievers suck, without plax we're screwed. Does that seem like something smart to say. </P>


So the change you want Eli to make, from what I can tell is to stand up at a podium and say: I don't throw well in heavy winds. So make sure you put 8 in the box when its over 20 MPH. Oh, and my best reciever shot himself, and the other guys don't even come close to comparing, so don't double them. Oh, and I lost the game, I'm disappointed, and then have him growl like a pirate so that the theatrical nature of his words can match the lunacy of telling him to change who he is in his post game so that YOU think he has heart. Playing with a tear in his shoulder last year wasn't enough; now he has to talk tough too. </P>

Grande Azul
02-04-2009, 03:08 PM
You know Azul; there is something to be said for someone who man's up to his mistakes and doesn't make excuses. It's called class. If Eli blamed the wind, his teammates, the game plan, etc, people would kill him for it. He takes the high road, acts like a gentleman, and is lambasted for that?</p>


I'll take the guy who plays the right way rather than some emotionally wild qb who is unable to stay on an even keel regardless of the circumstances around him. </p>




Zeph tell me how Eli has Man'd up? I didn't ask for Eli to start throwing anyone under the bus! Why can't Eli admit to his shortcomings is all. So admitting to what we all witnessed against philly is weakness or unclassy? None of the QB's mentioned are emotionally wild or they wouldn't be in the NFL. Taking the high road would be admitting that he's human and not perfect but to say that they didn't execute is lame. Eli laid out the philly loss as a team failure instead of accepting the loss as his own, is that taking the high road? Why not admit he didn't get it done or couldn't get it done? One TD in the last 5 games is what a fluke or a trend? Why can't he admit that he needed Plax out there? I don't want Eli to go all Tiki on everyone but a QB's job is to elevate those around him, be a leader of men and make those in the huddle believe that no matter what the QB is gonna get the job done. Less we forget that 07 team was Strahan's team. Mike missed all of training camp and still was voted defensive captain. Why because those men in that locker room believed at the end of the day Mike would be out there no matter what even after taken 12 years of abuse to his body so that he could make a difference. But before Mike did that he realized he couldn't be the same player and admitted the only way to survive was to change so if Strahan and Coughlin can do it why can't Eli?
</p>


Why should Eli say anything different then what he always says? When they win he doesn't say, you know what, I played sick today, without me, this team would have lost. They better pick it up. I can't carry the team on my shoulders the whole season. Why should he say I lost the game, which he basically does when he says I need to play better, which he does all the time. </p>


He did say he wished plax was there, but he was also being a leader when he said the team needs to move on. And if he harps too much on not having plax its like saying, the rest of my recievers suck, without plax we're screwed. Does that seem like something smart to say. </p>


So the change you want Eli to make, from what I can tell is to stand up at a podium and say: I don't throw well in heavy winds. So make sure you put 8 in the box when its over 20 MPH. Oh, and my best reciever shot himself, and the other guys don't even come close to comparing, so don't double them. Oh, and I lost the game, I'm disappointed, and then have him growl like a pirate so that the theatrical nature of his words can match the lunacy of telling him to change who he is in his post game so that YOU think he has heart. Playing with a tear in his shoulder last year wasn't enough; now he has to talk tough too. </p>

Yes that's EXACTLY what I want him to say...especially the pirate part
arrrhhhhh....thanks for clearing that up....and while you're at it can
you get him to say women are like parking spots, the good ones are
taken and the free ones
are handicapped or how about to stop smoking is the easiest thing. I
ought to
know. Iíve done it a thousand times. Maybe you can get him to do that
routine form the 40 yead old virgin where Mooj talks about love not
being about rusty trombones or cincinnati bowties or butt hole
pleasures it's about love and kids. Get him to do that and get back to
me. chop, chop.

Grande Azul
02-04-2009, 03:16 PM
C'mon rummy where's my monkey boy....get his az to the podium at the pro bowl and tell him to say all that shizzz....tick tock tick tock....clocks running.....nothing it would defintely be nore entertaining then his standard replies.....and for the record he didn't acknowledge that he missed Plax he said that Plax being out there didn't effect what they were doing because 1 TD in the last 6 games means production or was it the wind.

LT= Lawrence Taylor
02-04-2009, 03:17 PM
haha the using ur own words against u thing really upset u didnt it</P>


Ha ha.</P>


I'm STILL waiting for you know who to repond to my post when I proved using mathematics that Eli would statistically have a better career than Montana if they played the same amount of years.</P>


And I can't believe this thread is still alive</P>

Grande Azul
02-04-2009, 03:18 PM
haha the using ur own words against u thing really upset u didnt it</p>


Ha ha.</p>


I'm STILL waiting for you know who to repond to my post when I proved using mathematics that Eli would statistically have a better career than Montana if they played the same amount of years.</p>


And I can't believe this thread is still alive</p>

Uh Oh now we're using mathematical equations ....thank God for spell check!

Gianthunter
02-04-2009, 03:20 PM
It's a full moon and 5:00 somewhere alright.

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 03:24 PM
haha the using ur own words against u thing really upset u didnt it</P>


Ha ha.</P>


I'm STILL waiting for you know who to repond to my post when I proved using mathematics that Eli would statistically have a better career than Montana if they played the same amount of years.</P>


And I can't believe this thread is still alive</P>


haha i made that same post a couple of months ago, im well aware. I threw a cuple ofposts in there i think

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 03:26 PM
haha the using ur own words against u thing really upset u didnt it</p>


Ha ha.</p>


I'm STILL waiting for you know who to repond to my post when I proved using mathematics that Eli would statistically have a better career than Montana if they played the same amount of years.</p>


And I can't believe this thread is still alive</p>

Uh Oh now we're using mathematical equations ....thank God for spell check!


Well this is where we're at with Eli according to the eli haters:

We can't count his record, because its a team game, except when we lose.

We can't count his superbowl MVP, because apparently he didn't deserve it.

We can't use stats because all of a sudden stats don't count when they go against the eli haters opinions...


seems like a lose-lose situation

jgrangers2
02-04-2009, 03:26 PM
You know Azul; there is something to be said for someone who man's up to his mistakes and doesn't make excuses. It's called class. If Eli blamed the wind, his teammates, the game plan, etc, people would kill him for it. He takes the high road, acts like a gentleman, and is lambasted for that?</P>


I'll take the guy who plays the right way rather than some emotionally wild qb who is unable to stay on an even keel regardless of the circumstances around him. </P>




Zeph tell me how Eli has Man'd up? I didn't ask for Eli to start throwing anyone under the bus! Why can't Eli admit to his shortcomings is all. So admitting to what we all witnessed against philly is weakness or unclassy? None of the QB's mentioned are emotionally wild or they wouldn't be in the NFL. Taking the high road would be admitting that he's human and not perfect but to say that they didn't execute is lame. Eli laid out the philly loss as a team failure instead of accepting the loss as his own, is that taking the high road? Why not admit he didn't get it done or couldn't get it done? One TD in the last 5 games is what a fluke or a trend? Why can't he admit that he needed Plax out there? I don't want Eli to go all Tiki on everyone but a QB's job is to elevate those around him, be a leader of men and make those in the huddle believe that no matter what the QB is gonna get the job done. Less we forget that 07 team was Strahan's team. Mike missed all of training camp and still was voted defensive captain. Why because those men in that locker room believed at the end of the day Mike would be out there no matter what even after taken 12 years of abuse to his body so that he could make a difference. But before Mike did that he realized he couldn't be the same player and admitted the only way to survive was to change so if Strahan and Coughlin can do it why can't Eli?
</P>


Why should Eli say anything different then what he always says? When they win he doesn't say, you know what, I played sick today, without me, this team would have lost. They better pick it up. I can't carry the team on my shoulders the whole season. Why should he say I lost the game, which he basically does when he says I need to play better, which he does all the time. </P>


He did say he wished plax was there, but he was also being a leader when he said the team needs to move on. And if he harps too much on not having plax its like saying, the rest of my recievers suck, without plax we're screwed. Does that seem like something smart to say. </P>


So the change you want Eli to make, from what I can tell is to stand up at a podium and say: I don't throw well in heavy winds. So make sure you put 8 in the box when its over 20 MPH. Oh, and my best reciever shot himself, and the other guys don't even come close to comparing, so don't double them. Oh, and I lost the game, I'm disappointed, and then have him growl like a pirate so that the theatrical nature of his words can match the lunacy of telling him to change who he is in his post game so that YOU think he has heart. Playing with a tear in his shoulder last year wasn't enough; now he has to talk tough too. </P>




Yes that's EXACTLY what I want him to say...especially the pirate part arrrhhhhh....thanks for clearing that up....and while you're at it can you get him to say women are like parking spots, the good ones are taken and the free ones are handicapped or how about to stop smoking is the easiest thing. I ought to know. Iíve done it a thousand times. Maybe you can get him to do that routine form the 40 yead old virgin where Mooj talks about love not being about rusty trombones or cincinnati bowties or butt hole pleasures it's about love and kids. Get him to do that and get back to me. chop, chop.
</P>


So, basically what you want is for him to take the brunt of the blame when the team plays poorly, but I bet you wouldn't want him taking the majority of the credit when he plays well and the team wins. Am I right? Because that's what it seems like. Eli is a very stand up guy, has undergone incredible scrutiny since he's been here and has taken it all very well. You talk about how he should take sole blame for these things, but under the same notion, he could've just as easily thrown his receivers under the bus after the Eagles game in December or his O-line after the following Cowboys game. You win as a team and lose as a team and nobody knows that better than Eli.</P>

LT= Lawrence Taylor
02-04-2009, 03:32 PM
haha the using ur own words against u thing really upset u didnt it</P>


Ha ha.</P>


I'm STILL waiting for you know who to repond to my post when I proved using mathematics that Eli would statistically have a better career than Montana if they played the same amount of years.</P>


And I can't believe this thread is still alive</P>




Uh Oh now we're using mathematical equations ....thank God for spell check!
Well this is where we're at with Eli according to the eli haters: We can't count his record, because its a team game, except when we lose. We can't count his superbowl MVP, because apparently he didn't deserve it. We can't use stats because all of a sudden stats don't count when they go against the eli haters opinions... seems like a lose-lose situation</P>


You just hit the nail on the head bro</P>

gumby742
02-04-2009, 03:33 PM
haha the using ur own words against u thing really upset u didnt it</P>


Ha ha.</P>


I'm STILL waiting for you know who to repond to my post when I proved using mathematics that Eli would statistically have a better career than Montana if they played the same amount of years.</P>


And I can't believe this thread is still alive</P>


</P>


Unfortunately, the likes of you don't have the mental capacity to play the numbers game nor the debate game. So I'm not going to bother. I can repeat myself until I'm blue in the face and both you and Matt still won't get it. It's not my job to educate the both of you. That's something you should have learned in grade school.</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 03:33 PM
haha the using ur own words against u thing really upset u didnt it</P>


Ha ha.</P>


I'm STILL waiting for you know who to repond to my post when I proved using mathematics that Eli would statistically have a better career than Montana if they played the same amount of years.</P>


And I can't believe this thread is still alive</P>




Uh Oh now we're using mathematical equations ....thank God for spell check!
Well this is where we're at with Eli according to the eli haters: We can't count his record, because its a team game, except when we lose. We can't count his superbowl MVP, because apparently he didn't deserve it. We can't use stats because all of a sudden stats don't count when they go against the eli haters opinions... seems like a lose-lose situation</P>


You just hit the nail on the head bro</P>

and no apparently he handles things the wrong way according to Grande. Apparently syaing you had a bad game and was a major reason for a loss is not the right way to do things

Grande Azul
02-04-2009, 03:35 PM
Prophetic JG really that's some strong stuff. You know what that ends it for me right there. I was wrong never thought I could be but with JG dropping knowledge of massive proportions i'll have to about face. I apologize for being frustrated and upset at #10 because God knows i was the only one upset with his performance. The single soul that was upset with his performance. I imagine the rest of you were happy with those last 5 games or maybe you're ecstatic about his December numbers. I'm so sorry may i never utter another bad word about saint Eli. My deepest apologies to one and all. Bad Fan, Bad Fan.

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 03:36 PM
haha the using ur own words against u thing really upset u didnt it</P>


Ha ha.</P>


I'm STILL waiting for you know who to repond to my post when I proved using mathematics that Eli would statistically have a better career than Montana if they played the same amount of years.</P>


And I can't believe this thread is still alive</P>


</P>


Unfortunately, the likes of you don't have the mental capacity to play the numbers game nor the debate game.* So I'm not going to bother.* I can repeat myself until I'm blue in the face and both you and Matt still won't get it.* It's not my job to educate the both of you.* That's something you should have learned in grade school.</P>

please. All you do is paddle back and forth.

You can argue it all u want, but if Eli has better numbers than these guys when he retires then u'll just find more excuses.

you just can't handle the facts. Because Rivers wasn't ready to go the first two years of his career that means we shouldn't count eli's first two years. lol

And if it isn't ur job to talk to us, then don't respond to our threads. That would be step #1 to accomplishing ur goal

bandwgn86
02-04-2009, 03:36 PM
C'mon rummy where's my monkey boy....get his az to the podium at the pro bowl and tell him to say all that shizzz....tick tock tick tock....clocks running.....nothing it would defintely be nore entertaining then his standard replies.....and for the record he didn't acknowledge that he missed Plax he said that Plax being out there didn't effect what they were doing because 1 TD in the last 6 games means production or was it the wind.
</P>


</P>


basically he is saying "we lost as a team" why should he say anything more than that just to make you feel better about the game, thats a little silly. Eliunderstands he's part of a team and he's smart enough to realize he had a bad gamein no way does he have to explain it to the media, i would imagine what he says to the media compared to his teammatesbehind closed doors would differ greatly.. he doesn't owe anyone an explaination. </P>

Gianthunter
02-04-2009, 03:47 PM
haha the using ur own words against u thing really upset u didnt it</P>


Ha ha.</P>


I'm STILL waiting for you know who to repond to my post when I proved using mathematics that Eli would statistically have a better career than Montana if they played the same amount of years.</P>


And I can't believe this thread is still alive</P>


</P>


Unfortunately, the likes of you don't have the mental capacity to play the numbers game nor the debate game. So I'm not going to bother. I can repeat myself until I'm blue in the face and both you and Matt still won't get it. It's not my job to educate the both of you. That's something you should have learned in grade school.</P> please. All you do is paddle back and forth. You can argue it all u want, but if Eli has better numbers than these guys when he retires then u'll just find more excuses. you just can't handle the facts. Because Rivers wasn't ready to go the first two years of his career that means we shouldn't count eli's first two years. lol And if it isn't ur job to talk to us, then don't respond to our threads. That would be step #1 to accomplishing ur goalYeaaaaaaa but ya know. This thread was started byLuckofTuck. Just a casual observation.

Grande Azul
02-04-2009, 03:48 PM
C'mon rummy where's my monkey boy....get his az to the podium at the pro bowl and tell him to say all that shizzz....tick tock tick tock....clocks running.....nothing it would defintely be nore entertaining then his standard replies.....and for the record he didn't acknowledge that he missed Plax he said that Plax being out there didn't effect what they were doing because 1 TD in the last 6 games means production or was it the wind.
</p>


</p>


basically he is saying "we lost as a team" why should he say anything more than that just to make you feel better about the game, thats a little silly. Eliunderstands he's part of a team and he's smart enough to realize he had a bad gamein no way does he have to explain it to the media, i would imagine what he says to the media compared to his teammatesbehind closed doors would differ greatly.. he doesn't owe anyone an explaination. </p>
Yeah I agree maybe he shouldn't say anything at all....he should just stand at that podium and gaze lovingly into that camera and give props to wachovia (it's still wachovia right or wells fargo or taxpayer bailout) for sponsoring the post game conference so yes he should thank the taxpayers for the bailout!!!

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 03:48 PM
lol, we did all bite on it

Mua Dib
02-04-2009, 03:49 PM
Maybe if we cut the head off these threads they'd stop coming back to life. works with zombies.

Grande Azul
02-04-2009, 03:50 PM
yeah LMFAO this was fun....time to go to the beach.....back to work. ciao chillens.

gumby742
02-04-2009, 03:53 PM
haha the using ur own words against u thing really upset u didnt it</P>


Ha ha.</P>


I'm STILL waiting for you know who to repond to my post when I proved using mathematics that Eli would statistically have a better career than Montana if they played the same amount of years.</P>


And I can't believe this thread is still alive</P>


</P>


Unfortunately, the likes of you don't have the mental capacity to play the numbers game nor the debate game. So I'm not going to bother. I can repeat myself until I'm blue in the face and both you and Matt still won't get it. It's not my job to educate the both of you. That's something you should have learned in grade school.</P>


please. All you do is paddle back and forth. You can argue it all u want, but if Eli has better numbers than these guys when he retires then u'll just find more excuses. you just can't handle the facts. Because Rivers wasn't ready to go the first two years of his career that means we shouldn't count eli's first two years. lol And if it isn't ur job to talk to us, then don't respond to our threads. That would be step #1 to accomplishing ur goal</P>


I said educate not talk. What excuses do I give? And for what? What exactly am I defending? Besides work has been slow of late so I have nothing better to do then talk to you knuckleheads.</P>


The only thing I've been stating is that your numbers are meaningless. Everything is relative. Relative Relative Relaive. You have problems grasping that concept. Compare different eras all you want (and i repeat that is completely insane). I'll indulge you however.The fact is that if you compare all QBs that have been with their teams for sometime currently, they will all fit your Eli vs Joe Montana comparison. True, Eli isn't that bad, but neither is everyone else - Palmer, Bulger, Ben, Rivers, Delhomme, Hasslebeck, Cutler, Brees, Warner, etc. So if every other QB in the modern era has comparable stats to hall of fame QBs what does that tell you? Here's homework. Figure it out.</P>


Now you're getting it. If you want to compare Rivers to Eli, it's much better then you take their last 2 full seasons (comparable games started) and compare them. Not years played. See the difference?</P>

bandwgn86
02-04-2009, 03:55 PM
C'mon rummy where's my monkey boy....get his az to the podium at the pro bowl and tell him to say all that shizzz....tick tock tick tock....clocks running.....nothing it would defintely be nore entertaining then his standard replies.....and for the record he didn't acknowledge that he missed Plax he said that Plax being out there didn't effect what they were doing because 1 TD in the last 6 games means production or was it the wind.
</P>


</P>


basically he is saying "we lost as a team" why should he say anything more than that just to make you feel better about the game, thats a little silly. Eliunderstands he's part of a team and he's smart enough to realize he had a bad gamein no way does he have to explain it to the media, i would imagine what he says to the media compared to his teammatesbehind closed doors would differ greatly.. he doesn't owe anyone an explaination. </P>



Yeah I agree maybe he shouldn't say anything at all....he should just stand at that podium and gaze lovingly into that camera and give props to wachovia (it's still wachovia right or wells fargo or taxpayer bailout) for sponsoring the post game conference so yes he should thank the taxpayers for the bailout!!!
</P>


not even my wife is this dramatic.... i'm not sayin anythin, i'm just sayin...</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 03:58 PM
haha the using ur own words against u thing really upset u didnt it</P>


Ha ha.</P>


I'm STILL waiting for you know who to repond to my post when I proved using mathematics that Eli would statistically have a better career than Montana if they played the same amount of years.</P>


And I can't believe this thread is still alive</P>


</P>


Unfortunately, the likes of you don't have the mental capacity to play the numbers game nor the debate game.* So I'm not going to bother.* I can repeat myself until I'm blue in the face and both you and Matt still won't get it.* It's not my job to educate the both of you.* That's something you should have learned in grade school.</P>


please. All you do is paddle back and forth. You can argue it all u want, but if Eli has better numbers than these guys when he retires then u'll just find more excuses. you just can't handle the facts. Because Rivers wasn't ready to go the first two years of his career that means we shouldn't count eli's first two years. lol And if it isn't ur job to talk to us, then don't respond to our threads. That would be step #1 to accomplishing ur goal</P>


I said educate not talk.** What excuses do I give?* And for what?* What exactly am I defending?* Besides work has been slow of late so I have nothing better to do then talk to you knuckleheads.</P>


The only thing I've been stating is that your numbers are meaningless.* Everything is relative.* Relative Relative Relaive.* You* have problems grasping that concept.* Compare different eras all you want (and i repeat that is completely insane).* I'll indulge you however.**The fact is that if you compare all QBs that have been with their teams for sometime currently, they will all fit your Eli vs Joe Montana comparison.* True, Eli isn't that bad, but neither is everyone else - Palmer, Bulger, Ben, Rivers, Delhomme, Hasslebeck, Cutler, Brees, Warner, etc.* So if every other QB in the modern era has comparable stats to hall of fame QBs what does that tell you?* Here's homework.* Figure it out.*</P>


Now you're getting it.* If you want to compare Rivers to Eli, it's much better then you take their last 2 full seasons (comparable games started) and compare them.* Not years played.* See the difference?</P>

Why would u do that? Just to help your point?

Being in the league for 3 years and only playing one of them, then OBVIOUSLY (or hopfully) your first year playing would be better than a rookie QB going out his rookie year and playing. Thats a fair comparison ground to you?

Fact is Eli has been playing since day one and when your going to look at somebodys first 5 years, its their first 5 years in the league, not first 5 years played.

If we're going to nitpick like that, then i'd say we're only going to b e able to use Eli 's stats from the beginning of the playoffs last year because thats when we feel he turned the corner.

Grande Azul
02-04-2009, 04:00 PM
C'mon rummy where's my monkey boy....get his az to the podium at the pro bowl and tell him to say all that shizzz....tick tock tick tock....clocks running.....nothing it would defintely be nore entertaining then his standard replies.....and for the record he didn't acknowledge that he missed Plax he said that Plax being out there didn't effect what they were doing because 1 TD in the last 6 games means production or was it the wind.
</p>


</p>


basically he is saying "we lost as a team" why should he say anything more than that just to make you feel better about the game, thats a little silly. Eliunderstands he's part of a team and he's smart enough to realize he had a bad gamein no way does he have to explain it to the media, i would imagine what he says to the media compared to his teammatesbehind closed doors would differ greatly.. he doesn't owe anyone an explaination. </p>



Yeah I agree maybe he shouldn't say anything at all....he should just stand at that podium and gaze lovingly into that camera and give props to wachovia (it's still wachovia right or wells fargo or taxpayer bailout) for sponsoring the post game conference so yes he should thank the taxpayers for the bailout!!!
</p>


not even my wife is this dramatic.... i'm not sayin anythin, i'm just sayin...</p>

I agree she is not that dramatic but she is kind, considerate and very, very loving!!! Just so you know.

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 04:13 PM
haha the using ur own words against u thing really upset u didnt it</P>


Ha ha.</P>


I'm STILL waiting for you know who to repond to my post when I proved using mathematics that Eli would statistically have a better career than Montana if they played the same amount of years.</P>


And I can't believe this thread is still alive</P>


</P>


Unfortunately, the likes of you don't have the mental capacity to play the numbers game nor the debate game.* So I'm not going to bother.* I can repeat myself until I'm blue in the face and both you and Matt still won't get it.* It's not my job to educate the both of you.* That's something you should have learned in grade school.</P>


please. All you do is paddle back and forth. You can argue it all u want, but if Eli has better numbers than these guys when he retires then u'll just find more excuses. you just can't handle the facts. Because Rivers wasn't ready to go the first two years of his career that means we shouldn't count eli's first two years. lol And if it isn't ur job to talk to us, then don't respond to our threads. That would be step #1 to accomplishing ur goal</P>


I said educate not talk.** What excuses do I give?* And for what?* What exactly am I defending?* Besides work has been slow of late so I have nothing better to do then talk to you knuckleheads.</P>


The only thing I've been stating is that your numbers are meaningless.* Everything is relative.* Relative Relative Relaive.* You* have problems grasping that concept.* Compare different eras all you want (and i repeat that is completely insane).* I'll indulge you however.**The fact is that if you compare all QBs that have been with their teams for sometime currently, they will all fit your Eli vs Joe Montana comparison.* True, Eli isn't that bad, but neither is everyone else - Palmer, Bulger, Ben, Rivers, Delhomme, Hasslebeck, Cutler, Brees, Warner, etc.* So if every other QB in the modern era has comparable stats to hall of fame QBs what does that tell you?* Here's homework.* Figure it out.*</P>


Now you're getting it.* If you want to compare Rivers to Eli, it's much better then you take their last 2 full seasons (comparable games started) and compare them.* Not years played.* See the difference?</P>

well first off Palmer was a first round pick, if it wasn't for injury and a weak line he very well may have been one of the greatest to ever play the game, especially wtih the weapons hes had.

Delhomme has played double the season Eli has and has 3000 more yards lifetime.. don't know why u keep throwin him in this argument.

As for this averages and how many games u played and bla bla bla argument u have its void. Perfect example I can give you is Hank Aaron was the homerun king. Did anybody really care he played 3200+ games to do it?

NOPE, when he broke Ruth's record he had played 7000 more games and still only had 40 more HRs? Nope. You do what u do. And when its all over it is what it is.

Also quick note, Dan Marino had a lifetime average under 60% completion rating and only hit 60 5 times out of 17 year career.

But that was a different time, so it doesn't count

bandwgn86
02-04-2009, 04:17 PM
C'mon rummy where's my monkey boy....get his az to the podium at the pro bowl and tell him to say all that shizzz....tick tock tick tock....clocks running.....nothing it would defintely be nore entertaining then his standard replies.....and for the record he didn't acknowledge that he missed Plax he said that Plax being out there didn't effect what they were doing because 1 TD in the last 6 games means production or was it the wind.
</P>


</P>


basically he is saying "we lost as a team" why should he say anything more than that just to make you feel better about the game, thats a little silly. Eliunderstands he's part of a team and he's smart enough to realize he had a bad gamein no way does he have to explain it to the media, i would imagine what he says to the media compared to his teammatesbehind closed doors would differ greatly.. he doesn't owe anyone an explaination. </P>



Yeah I agree maybe he shouldn't say anything at all....he should just stand at that podium and gaze lovingly into that camera and give props to wachovia (it's still wachovia right or wells fargo or taxpayer bailout) for sponsoring the post game conference so yes he should thank the taxpayers for the bailout!!!
</P>


not even my wife is this dramatic.... i'm not sayin anythin, i'm just sayin...</P>




I agree she is not that dramatic but she is kind, considerate and very, very loving!!! Just so you know.
</P>


you are a sad my freind....how bout if you feel the need toinsult me try sticking to insulting me causeimplying my wifewas very loving to you isVERY insulting to her..and since yousound very smart for a 15 year old you should no better..</P>

Zeph
02-04-2009, 04:23 PM
C'mon rummy where's my monkey boy....get his az to the podium at the pro bowl and tell him to say all that shizzz....tick tock tick tock....clocks running.....nothing it would defintely be nore entertaining then his standard replies.....and for the record he didn't acknowledge that he missed Plax he said that Plax being out there didn't effect what they were doing because 1 TD in the last 6 games means production or was it the wind.
</P>


I'm sorry, is he a clown, is he supposed to entertain you off the field? Or on it. </P>


Plax not being out there didn't effect what they were doing, in terms of the gameplan. They ran the same gameplan. </P>


And for the record, it was 2 TD's the last 5 1/2 games. One against the eagles, one against carolina. </P>

gumby742
02-04-2009, 04:30 PM
haha the using ur own words against u thing really upset u didnt it</P>


Ha ha.</P>


I'm STILL waiting for you know who to repond to my post when I proved using mathematics that Eli would statistically have a better career than Montana if they played the same amount of years.</P>


And I can't believe this thread is still alive</P>


</P>


Unfortunately, the likes of you don't have the mental capacity to play the numbers game nor the debate game. So I'm not going to bother. I can repeat myself until I'm blue in the face and both you and Matt still won't get it. It's not my job to educate the both of you. That's something you should have learned in grade school.</P>


please. All you do is paddle back and forth. You can argue it all u want, but if Eli has better numbers than these guys when he retires then u'll just find more excuses. you just can't handle the facts. Because Rivers wasn't ready to go the first two years of his career that means we shouldn't count eli's first two years. lol And if it isn't ur job to talk to us, then don't respond to our threads. That would be step #1 to accomplishing ur goal</P>


I said educate not talk. What excuses do I give? And for what? What exactly am I defending? Besides work has been slow of late so I have nothing better to do then talk to you knuckleheads.</P>


The only thing I've been stating is that your numbers are meaningless. Everything is relative. Relative Relative Relaive. You have problems grasping that concept. Compare different eras all you want (and i repeat that is completely insane). I'll indulge you however.The fact is that if you compare all QBs that have been with their teams for sometime currently, they will all fit your Eli vs Joe Montana comparison. True, Eli isn't that bad, but neither is everyone else - Palmer, Bulger, Ben, Rivers, Delhomme, Hasslebeck, Cutler, Brees, Warner, etc. So if every other QB in the modern era has comparable stats to hall of fame QBs what does that tell you? Here's homework. Figure it out.</P>


Now you're getting it. If you want to compare Rivers to Eli, it's much better then you take their last 2 full seasons (comparable games started) and compare them. Not years played. See the difference?</P>


Why would u do that? Just to help your point? Being in the league for 3 years and only playing one of them, then OBVIOUSLY (or hopfully) your first year playing would be better than a rookie QB going out his rookie year and playing. Thats a fair comparison ground to you? Fact is Eli has been playing since day one and when your going to look at somebodys first 5 years, its their first 5 years in the league, not first 5 years played. If we're going to nitpick like that, then i'd say we're only going to b e able to use Eli 's stats from the beginning of the playoffs last year because thats when we feel he turned the corner.</P>


No. I said LAST two full seasons. You have a point about if you sitfor 3 years then play 2, that your 2 years that you started will be more productiveif you extrapulate those 2 years. .So like I said, take Eli's last 2 years compared to Riverslast 2 years. Fair?</P>


If anything you can go a step further and cut out the outliers. So ignore the first 2 as well as the last 2 years of a persons's career. Thus, you're essentially ruling out the beginnings and declines to someone's career and only taking into account their numbers in their prime. You can even take a step further and say, starting from then on, you take games started and not by years. Then on top of that you can rule out bad weather and only include games in good weather/domes. </P>


If you want to play the numbers game. You gotta do stuff like this. Numbers lie. The best we can do is limit the amount of bullsh*t we need to sift through.</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 04:38 PM
haha the using ur own words against u thing really upset u didnt it</P>


Ha ha.</P>


I'm STILL waiting for you know who to repond to my post when I proved using mathematics that Eli would statistically have a better career than Montana if they played the same amount of years.</P>


And I can't believe this thread is still alive</P>


</P>


Unfortunately, the likes of you don't have the mental capacity to play the numbers game nor the debate game.* So I'm not going to bother.* I can repeat myself until I'm blue in the face and both you and Matt still won't get it.* It's not my job to educate the both of you.* That's something you should have learned in grade school.</P>


please. All you do is paddle back and forth. You can argue it all u want, but if Eli has better numbers than these guys when he retires then u'll just find more excuses. you just can't handle the facts. Because Rivers wasn't ready to go the first two years of his career that means we shouldn't count eli's first two years. lol And if it isn't ur job to talk to us, then don't respond to our threads. That would be step #1 to accomplishing ur goal</P>


I said educate not talk.** What excuses do I give?* And for what?* What exactly am I defending?* Besides work has been slow of late so I have nothing better to do then talk to you knuckleheads.</P>


The only thing I've been stating is that your numbers are meaningless.* Everything is relative.* Relative Relative Relaive.* You* have problems grasping that concept.* Compare different eras all you want (and i repeat that is completely insane).* I'll indulge you however.**The fact is that if you compare all QBs that have been with their teams for sometime currently, they will all fit your Eli vs Joe Montana comparison.* True, Eli isn't that bad, but neither is everyone else - Palmer, Bulger, Ben, Rivers, Delhomme, Hasslebeck, Cutler, Brees, Warner, etc.* So if every other QB in the modern era has comparable stats to hall of fame QBs what does that tell you?* Here's homework.* Figure it out.*</P>


Now you're getting it.* If you want to compare Rivers to Eli, it's much better then you take their last 2 full seasons (comparable games started) and compare them.* Not years played.* See the difference?</P>


Why would u do that? Just to help your point? Being in the league for 3 years and only playing one of them, then OBVIOUSLY (or hopfully) your first year playing would be better than a rookie QB going out his rookie year and playing. Thats a fair comparison ground to you? Fact is Eli has been playing since day one and when your going to look at somebodys first 5 years, its their first 5 years in the league, not first 5 years played. If we're going to nitpick like that, then i'd say we're only going to b e able to use Eli 's stats from the beginning of the playoffs last year because thats when we feel he turned the corner.</P>


No.* I said LAST two full seasons.** You have a point about if you sit*for 3 years then play 2, that your 2 years that you started will be more productive*if you extrapulate those 2 years.* .**So like I said, take Eli's last 2 years compared to Rivers*last 2 years.* Fair?</P>


If anything you can go a step further and cut out the outliers.* So ignore the first 2 as well as the last 2 years of a persons's career.* Thus, you're essentially ruling out the beginnings and declines to someone's career and only taking into account their numbers in their prime.* You can even take a step further and say, starting from then on, you take games started and not by years.* Then on top of that you can rule out bad weather and only include games in good weather/domes. </P>


If you want to play the numbers game.* You gotta do stuff like this.* Numbers lie.* The best we can do is limit the amount of bullsh*t we need to sift through.</P>

okay, out of the past two years its simple:

Rivers had a better year this year and Eli had a better year last year with a superbowl ring and mvp on the side...

bandwgn86
02-04-2009, 04:38 PM
haha the using ur own words against u thing really upset u didnt it</P>


Ha ha.</P>


I'm STILL waiting for you know who to repond to my post when I proved using mathematics that Eli would statistically have a better career than Montana if they played the same amount of years.</P>


And I can't believe this thread is still alive</P>


</P>


Unfortunately, the likes of you don't have the mental capacity to play the numbers game nor the debate game. So I'm not going to bother. I can repeat myself until I'm blue in the face and both you and Matt still won't get it. It's not my job to educate the both of you. That's something you should have learned in grade school.</P>


please. All you do is paddle back and forth. You can argue it all u want, but if Eli has better numbers than these guys when he retires then u'll just find more excuses. you just can't handle the facts. Because Rivers wasn't ready to go the first two years of his career that means we shouldn't count eli's first two years. lol And if it isn't ur job to talk to us, then don't respond to our threads. That would be step #1 to accomplishing ur goal</P>


I said educate not talk. What excuses do I give? And for what? What exactly am I defending? Besides work has been slow of late so I have nothing better to do then talk to you knuckleheads.</P>


The only thing I've been stating is that your numbers are meaningless. Everything is relative. Relative Relative Relaive. You have problems grasping that concept. Compare different eras all you want (and i repeat that is completely insane). I'll indulge you however.The fact is that if you compare all QBs that have been with their teams for sometime currently, they will all fit your Eli vs Joe Montana comparison. True, Eli isn't that bad, but neither is everyone else - Palmer, Bulger, Ben, Rivers, Delhomme, Hasslebeck, Cutler, Brees, Warner, etc. So if every other QB in the modern era has comparable stats to hall of fame QBs what does that tell you? Here's homework. Figure it out.</P>


Now you're getting it. If you want to compare Rivers to Eli, it's much better then you take their last 2 full seasons (comparable games started) and compare them. Not years played. See the difference?</P>


Why would u do that? Just to help your point? Being in the league for 3 years and only playing one of them, then OBVIOUSLY (or hopfully) your first year playing would be better than a rookie QB going out his rookie year and playing. Thats a fair comparison ground to you? Fact is Eli has been playing since day one and when your going to look at somebodys first 5 years, its their first 5 years in the league, not first 5 years played. If we're going to nitpick like that, then i'd say we're only going to b e able to use Eli 's stats from the beginning of the playoffs last year because thats when we feel he turned the corner.</P>


No. I said LAST two full seasons. You have a point about if you sitfor 3 years then play 2, that your 2 years that you started will be more productiveif you extrapulate those 2 years. .So like I said, take Eli's last 2 years compared to Riverslast 2 years. Fair?</P>


If anything you can go a step further and cut out the outliers. So ignore the first 2 as well as the last 2 years of a persons's career. Thus, you're essentially ruling out the beginnings and declines to someone's career and only taking into account their numbers in their prime. You can even take a step further and say, starting from then on, you take games started and not by years. Then on top of that you can rule out bad weather and only include games in good weather/domes. </P>


If you want to play the numbers game. You gotta do stuff like this. Numbers lie. The best we can do is limit the amount of bullsh*t we need to sift through.</P>


</P>


numbers just don't show the whole picture..i thinkits beenconcluded that the 2 or any 2 QB's cannot be fairly compared so all that is left is what....personalopinion?i've heard you say Ben has better accuracy,how do you determine this. </P>

jgrangers2
02-04-2009, 04:44 PM
Prophetic JG really that's some strong stuff. You know what that ends it for me right there. I was wrong never thought I could be but with JG dropping knowledge of massive proportions i'll have to about face. I apologize for being frustrated and upset at #10 because God knows i was the only one upset with his performance. The single soul that was upset with his performance. I imagine the rest of you were happy with those last 5 games or maybe you're ecstatic about his December numbers. I'm so sorry may i never utter another bad word about saint Eli. My deepest apologies to one and all. Bad Fan, Bad Fan.
</P>


Except that is not what you're doing. You're going past his on field play and criticizing his off the field demeanor, where he has been nothing less than a class act. The guy has been a perfect fit for New York. The fact that he isn't the fiery guy you want him to be has allowed him to get past the unbelieve criticism he has faced since day one.</P>

ManningBowl
02-04-2009, 04:56 PM
haha the using ur own words against u thing really upset u didnt it</P>


Ha ha.</P>


I'm STILL waiting for you know who to repond to my post when I proved using mathematics that Eli would statistically have a better career than Montana if they played the same amount of years.</P>


And I can't believe this thread is still alive</P>


</P>


Unfortunately, the likes of you don't have the mental capacity to play the numbers game nor the debate game. So I'm not going to bother. I can repeat myself until I'm blue in the face and both you and Matt still won't get it. It's not my job to educate the both of you. That's something you should have learned in grade school.</P>


please. All you do is paddle back and forth. You can argue it all u want, but if Eli has better numbers than these guys when he retires then u'll just find more excuses. you just can't handle the facts. Because Rivers wasn't ready to go the first two years of his career that means we shouldn't count eli's first two years. lol And if it isn't ur job to talk to us, then don't respond to our threads. That would be step #1 to accomplishing ur goal</P>


I said educate not talk. What excuses do I give? And for what? What exactly am I defending? Besides work has been slow of late so I have nothing better to do then talk to you knuckleheads.</P>


The only thing I've been stating is that your numbers are meaningless. Everything is relative. Relative Relative Relaive. You have problems grasping that concept. Compare different eras all you want (and i repeat that is completely insane). I'll indulge you however.The fact is that if you compare all QBs that have been with their teams for sometime currently, they will all fit your Eli vs Joe Montana comparison. True, Eli isn't that bad, but neither is everyone else - Palmer, Bulger, Ben, Rivers, Delhomme, Hasslebeck, Cutler, Brees, Warner, etc. So if every other QB in the modern era has comparable stats to hall of fame QBs what does that tell you? Here's homework. Figure it out.</P>


Now you're getting it. If you want to compare Rivers to Eli, it's much better then you take their last 2 full seasons (comparable games started) and compare them. Not years played. See the difference?</P>


Why would u do that? Just to help your point? Being in the league for 3 years and only playing one of them, then OBVIOUSLY (or hopfully) your first year playing would be better than a rookie QB going out his rookie year and playing. Thats a fair comparison ground to you? Fact is Eli has been playing since day one and when your going to look at somebodys first 5 years, its their first 5 years in the league, not first 5 years played. If we're going to nitpick like that, then i'd say we're only going to b e able to use Eli 's stats from the beginning of the playoffs last year because thats when we feel he turned the corner.</P>


No. I said LAST two full seasons. You have a point about if you sitfor 3 years then play 2, that your 2 years that you started will be more productiveif you extrapulate those 2 years. .So like I said, take Eli's last 2 years compared to Riverslast 2 years. Fair?</P>


If anything you can go a step further and cut out the outliers. So ignore the first 2 as well as the last 2 years of a persons's career. Thus, you're essentially ruling out the beginnings and declines to someone's career and only taking into account their numbers in their prime. You can even take a step further and say, starting from then on, you take games started and not by years. Then on top of that you can rule out bad weather and only include games in good weather/domes. </P>


If you want to play the numbers game. You gotta do stuff like this. Numbers lie. The best we can do is limit the amount of bullsh*t we need to sift through.</P>


okay, out of the past two years its simple: Rivers had a better year this year and Eli had a better year last year with a superbowl ring and mvp on the side...</P>


Yeah Eli shore had a great year in 2oo7 with his 2o int's.. He turned it on twords the end and had a brilliant playoff run but he was terrible in the regular season and the rest of the team had to carry him to the playoffs after his debacle in Buffalo</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 04:59 PM
oh manninbowl, ur ignorance strikes again

2007 season Eli 3336 yards, 23 tds, 20 ints

Rivers 3152 yards, 21 tds, 16 Ints

and THEN comes the fact that eli was a superbowl mvp...

nice try tho

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 04:59 PM
and if ur gonna qoute me, take the whole qoute..

besides superbowl rings was the preamble to that qoute u have in ur sig

Gianthunter
02-04-2009, 05:02 PM
Maybe if we cut the head off these threads they'd stop coming back to life. works with zombies.It only works if you bury the head.[:$] Urrrrrrrrrrr so to speak.

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 05:04 PM
Maybe if we cut the head off these threads they'd stop coming back to life. works with zombies.It only works if you bury the head.[:$] Urrrrrrrrrrr so to speak.

i'll put the head on a stick and leave it in my front yard to scare manningbowl away

ManningBowl
02-04-2009, 05:06 PM
haha the using ur own words against u thing really upset u didnt it</P>


Ha ha.</P>


I'm STILL waiting for you know who to repond to my post when I proved using mathematics that Eli would statistically have a better career than Montana if they played the same amount of years.</P>


And I can't believe this thread is still alive</P>


</P>


What mathmatical break down... whooo hoooo Big deal now do the same thing For Aaron Rogers, Cutler, Ben Rivers, Romoetc... I'm shore they'll all finish with better numbers then Montana or whoever does that make them better players NO</P>


How you like them apples?</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 05:09 PM
haha the using ur own words against u thing really upset u didnt it</P>


Ha ha.</P>


I'm STILL waiting for you know who to repond to my post when I proved using mathematics that Eli would statistically have a better career than Montana if they played the same amount of years.</P>


And I can't believe this thread is still alive</P>


</P>


What mathmatical break down... whooo hoooo Big deal now do the same thing For Aaron Rogers, Cutler, Ben Rivers, Romo*etc... I'm shore they'll all finish with better numbers then Montana or whoever does that make them better players* NO</P>


How you like them apples?</P>

actually ur wrong about rodgers, rivers, and romo.

Ben is on pace to have better numbers

Cutler is as well after 3 years

i like apples

gumby742
02-04-2009, 05:12 PM
haha the using ur own words against u thing really upset u didnt it</P>


Ha ha.</P>


I'm STILL waiting for you know who to repond to my post when I proved using mathematics that Eli would statistically have a better career than Montana if they played the same amount of years.</P>


And I can't believe this thread is still alive</P>


</P>


Unfortunately, the likes of you don't have the mental capacity to play the numbers game nor the debate game. So I'm not going to bother. I can repeat myself until I'm blue in the face and both you and Matt still won't get it. It's not my job to educate the both of you. That's something you should have learned in grade school.</P>


please. All you do is paddle back and forth. You can argue it all u want, but if Eli has better numbers than these guys when he retires then u'll just find more excuses. you just can't handle the facts. Because Rivers wasn't ready to go the first two years of his career that means we shouldn't count eli's first two years. lol And if it isn't ur job to talk to us, then don't respond to our threads. That would be step #1 to accomplishing ur goal</P>


I said educate not talk. What excuses do I give? And for what? What exactly am I defending? Besides work has been slow of late so I have nothing better to do then talk to you knuckleheads.</P>


The only thing I've been stating is that your numbers are meaningless. Everything is relative. Relative Relative Relaive. You have problems grasping that concept. Compare different eras all you want (and i repeat that is completely insane). I'll indulge you however.The fact is that if you compare all QBs that have been with their teams for sometime currently, they will all fit your Eli vs Joe Montana comparison. True, Eli isn't that bad, but neither is everyone else - Palmer, Bulger, Ben, Rivers, Delhomme, Hasslebeck, Cutler, Brees, Warner, etc. So if every other QB in the modern era has comparable stats to hall of fame QBs what does that tell you? Here's homework. Figure it out.</P>


Now you're getting it. If you want to compare Rivers to Eli, it's much better then you take their last 2 full seasons (comparable games started) and compare them. Not years played. See the difference?</P>


Why would u do that? Just to help your point? Being in the league for 3 years and only playing one of them, then OBVIOUSLY (or hopfully) your first year playing would be better than a rookie QB going out his rookie year and playing. Thats a fair comparison ground to you? Fact is Eli has been playing since day one and when your going to look at somebodys first 5 years, its their first 5 years in the league, not first 5 years played. If we're going to nitpick like that, then i'd say we're only going to b e able to use Eli 's stats from the beginning of the playoffs last year because thats when we feel he turned the corner.</P>


No. I said LAST two full seasons. You have a point about if you sitfor 3 years then play 2, that your 2 years that you started will be more productiveif you extrapulate those 2 years. .So like I said, take Eli's last 2 years compared to Riverslast 2 years. Fair?</P>


If anything you can go a step further and cut out the outliers. So ignore the first 2 as well as the last 2 years of a persons's career. Thus, you're essentially ruling out the beginnings and declines to someone's career and only taking into account their numbers in their prime. You can even take a step further and say, starting from then on, you take games started and not by years. Then on top of that you can rule out bad weather and only include games in good weather/domes. </P>


If you want to play the numbers game. You gotta do stuff like this. Numbers lie. The best we can do is limit the amount of bullsh*t we need to sift through.</P>


</P>


numbers just don't show the whole picture..i thinkits beenconcluded that the 2 or any 2 QB's cannot be fairly compared so all that is left is what....personalopinion?i've heard you say Ben has better accuracy,how do you determine this. </P>


</P>


Personal opinion? Sorta. There are certain teams I watch every week, aside from the Giants. The Steelers are one of those teams. I can only compare Ben to Eli when it comes to accuracy because I've seen them play almost equally. As for when i mention Rivers, Warner, etc I'm only basing on what I've seen. If someone comes to me and says, "I've watched every game Rivers has been in and he has more problems throwing the ball to an open WR", then he'll have much better say then me.</P>

Gianthunter
02-04-2009, 05:13 PM
haha the using ur own words against u thing really upset u didnt it</P>


Ha ha.</P>


I'm STILL waiting for you know who to repond to my post when I proved using mathematics that Eli would statistically have a better career than Montana if they played the same amount of years.</P>


And I can't believe this thread is still alive</P>


</P>


Unfortunately, the likes of you don't have the mental capacity to play the numbers game nor the debate game. So I'm not going to bother. I can repeat myself until I'm blue in the face and both you and Matt still won't get it. It's not my job to educate the both of you. That's something you should have learned in grade school.</P>


please. All you do is paddle back and forth. You can argue it all u want, but if Eli has better numbers than these guys when he retires then u'll just find more excuses. you just can't handle the facts. Because Rivers wasn't ready to go the first two years of his career that means we shouldn't count eli's first two years. lol And if it isn't ur job to talk to us, then don't respond to our threads. That would be step #1 to accomplishing ur goal</P>


I said educate not talk. What excuses do I give? And for what? What exactly am I defending? Besides work has been slow of late so I have nothing better to do then talk to you knuckleheads.</P>


The only thing I've been stating is that your numbers are meaningless. Everything is relative. Relative Relative Relaive. You have problems grasping that concept. Compare different eras all you want (and i repeat that is completely insane). I'll indulge you however.The fact is that if you compare all QBs that have been with their teams for sometime currently, they will all fit your Eli vs Joe Montana comparison. True, Eli isn't that bad, but neither is everyone else - Palmer, Bulger, Ben, Rivers, Delhomme, Hasslebeck, Cutler, Brees, Warner, etc. So if every other QB in the modern era has comparable stats to hall of fame QBs what does that tell you? Here's homework. Figure it out.</P>


Now you're getting it. If you want to compare Rivers to Eli, it's much better then you take their last 2 full seasons (comparable games started) and compare them. Not years played. See the difference?</P>


Why would u do that? Just to help your point? Being in the league for 3 years and only playing one of them, then OBVIOUSLY (or hopfully) your first year playing would be better than a rookie QB going out his rookie year and playing. Thats a fair comparison ground to you? Fact is Eli has been playing since day one and when your going to look at somebodys first 5 years, its their first 5 years in the league, not first 5 years played. If we're going to nitpick like that, then i'd say we're only going to b e able to use Eli 's stats from the beginning of the playoffs last year because thats when we feel he turned the corner.</P>


No. I said LAST two full seasons. You have a point about if you sitfor 3 years then play 2, that your 2 years that you started will be more productiveif you extrapulate those 2 years. .So like I said, take Eli's last 2 years compared to Riverslast 2 years. Fair?</P>


If anything you can go a step further and cut out the outliers. So ignore the first 2 as well as the last 2 years of a persons's career. Thus, you're essentially ruling out the beginnings and declines to someone's career and only taking into account their numbers in their prime. You can even take a step further and say, starting from then on, you take games started and not by years. Then on top of that you can rule out bad weather and only include games in good weather/domes. </P>


If you want to play the numbers game. You gotta do stuff like this. Numbers lie. The best we can do is limit the amount of bullsh*t we need to sift through.</P>


okay, out of the past two years its simple: Rivers had a better year this year and Eli had a better year last year with a superbowl ring and mvp on the side...</P>


Yeah Eli shore had a great year in 2oo7 with his 2o int's.. He turned it on twords the end and had a brilliant playoff run but he was terrible in the regular season and the rest of the team had to carry him to the playoffs after his debacle in Buffalo</P>Oh please tidybowl. Turned it toward the end. And the thru out most of this season you were salivating over his sack. You have been exposed by anyone on this board for over a year. As schizophrenic backbiting fencejumping queen of malePMS. You put the water in moaning after enjoying the wins. But carry on you have the God given right to further your degradment.

bandwgn86
02-04-2009, 05:14 PM
anyone one wanna put money down to see if this has the legs to make it to 50 pages....lol

bansaw
02-04-2009, 05:14 PM
<font size="5">this thread ....</font>


















http://www.icybrian.com/flavors/data/media/137/Bleeding_Eyes.jpg

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 05:15 PM
anyone one wanna put money down to see if this has the legs to make it to 50 pages....lol

lol i'll take that bet that its over

gumby742
02-04-2009, 05:17 PM
anyone one wanna put money down to see if this has the legs to make it to 50 pages....lol</P>


Giggles: "I didn't mean to. I was just trying to make a point. Why are you harassing me?"</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 05:18 PM
anyone one wanna put money down to see if this has the legs to make it to 50 pages....lol</P>


Giggles:* "I didn't mean to.* I was just trying to make a point.* Why are you harassing me?"</P>

lol thats one thing we can agree on...

we both enjoy giggles

Gianthunter
02-04-2009, 05:19 PM
haha the using ur own words against u thing really upset u didnt it</P>


Ha ha.</P>


I'm STILL waiting for you know who to repond to my post when I proved using mathematics that Eli would statistically have a better career than Montana if they played the same amount of years.</P>


And I can't believe this thread is still alive</P>


</P>


Unfortunately, the likes of you don't have the mental capacity to play the numbers game nor the debate game. So I'm not going to bother. I can repeat myself until I'm blue in the face and both you and Matt still won't get it. It's not my job to educate the both of you. That's something you should have learned in grade school.</P>


please. All you do is paddle back and forth. You can argue it all u want, but if Eli has better numbers than these guys when he retires then u'll just find more excuses. you just can't handle the facts. Because Rivers wasn't ready to go the first two years of his career that means we shouldn't count eli's first two years. lol And if it isn't ur job to talk to us, then don't respond to our threads. That would be step #1 to accomplishing ur goal</P>


I said educate not talk. What excuses do I give? And for what? What exactly am I defending? Besides work has been slow of late so I have nothing better to do then talk to you knuckleheads.</P>


The only thing I've been stating is that your numbers are meaningless. Everything is relative. Relative Relative Relaive. You have problems grasping that concept. Compare different eras all you want (and i repeat that is completely insane). I'll indulge you however.The fact is that if you compare all QBs that have been with their teams for sometime currently, they will all fit your Eli vs Joe Montana comparison. True, Eli isn't that bad, but neither is everyone else - Palmer, Bulger, Ben, Rivers, Delhomme, Hasslebeck, Cutler, Brees, Warner, etc. So if every other QB in the modern era has comparable stats to hall of fame QBs what does that tell you? Here's homework. Figure it out.</P>


Now you're getting it. If you want to compare Rivers to Eli, it's much better then you take their last 2 full seasons (comparable games started) and compare them. Not years played. See the difference?</P>


Why would u do that? Just to help your point? Being in the league for 3 years and only playing one of them, then OBVIOUSLY (or hopfully) your first year playing would be better than a rookie QB going out his rookie year and playing. Thats a fair comparison ground to you? Fact is Eli has been playing since day one and when your going to look at somebodys first 5 years, its their first 5 years in the league, not first 5 years played. If we're going to nitpick like that, then i'd say we're only going to b e able to use Eli 's stats from the beginning of the playoffs last year because thats when we feel he turned the corner.</P>


No. I said LAST two full seasons. You have a point about if you sitfor 3 years then play 2, that your 2 years that you started will be more productiveif you extrapulate those 2 years. .So like I said, take Eli's last 2 years compared to Riverslast 2 years. Fair?</P>


If anything you can go a step further and cut out the outliers. So ignore the first 2 as well as the last 2 years of a persons's career. Thus, you're essentially ruling out the beginnings and declines to someone's career and only taking into account their numbers in their prime. You can even take a step further and say, starting from then on, you take games started and not by years. Then on top of that you can rule out bad weather and only include games in good weather/domes. </P>


If you want to play the numbers game. You gotta do stuff like this. Numbers lie. The best we can do is limit the amount of bullsh*t we need to sift through.</P>


okay, out of the past two years its simple: Rivers had a better year this year and Eli had a better year last year with a superbowl ring and mvp on the side...</P>


Yeah Eli shore had a great year in 2oo7 with his 2o int's.. He turned it on twords the end and had a brilliant playoff run but he was terrible in the regular season and the rest of the team had to carry him to the playoffs after his debacle in Buffalo</P>Oh please tidybowl. Turned it toward the end. And the thru out most of this season you were salivating over his sack. You have been exposed by anyone on this board for over a year. As schizophrenic backbiting fencejumping queen of malePMS. You put the water in moaning after enjoying the wins. But carry on you have the God given right to further your degradment.From now on your personal gems go into an archive I just started for your own fencejumping.

ManningBowl
02-04-2009, 05:19 PM
oh manninbowl, ur ignorance strikes again 2007 season Eli 3336 yards, 23 tds, 20 ints Rivers 3152 yards, 21 tds, 16 Ints and THEN comes the fact that eli was a superbowl mvp... nice try tho</P>


Where am I wrong ? Eli threw 2o Ints in 2oo7 and the Giants were #6 in Defense and #5 in rushing the ball.. Eli was again his same old mediocre self with a 7o ish Qb rating and the game( Buffalo)we needed to win to make the playoffs Eli was terrible (nothing new there) .. He turned it up and was brilliant in the playoffs and won SB MVP.. This year he had a good (not great) regular season and faded down the stretch till he flat out imploeded in the playoffs versus the Eagles... The game you want to forget about after your typical excuses were useless a few examples include Wrs weren't open.. They ran the wrong routes... he had a bad night sleep.... Gilbride called a bad game... And God knows what else you've babbled about in attempt to rip the rest of the team so poor Eli looks better</P>


</P>

Bleedin Blue Since '62
02-04-2009, 05:19 PM
<FONT color=#0000ff>Very amusing group.</FONT>

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 05:23 PM
oh manninbowl, ur ignorance strikes again 2007 season Eli 3336 yards, 23 tds, 20 ints Rivers 3152 yards, 21 tds, 16 Ints and THEN comes the fact that eli was a superbowl mvp... nice try tho</P>


Where am I wrong ? Eli threw 2o Ints in 2oo7 and the Giants were #6 in Defense and #5 in rushing the ball.. Eli was again his same old mediocre self with a 7o ish Qb rating and the game( Buffalo)*we needed to win to make the playoffs Eli was terrible (nothing new there) .. He turned it up and was brilliant in the playoffs and won SB MVP.. This year he had a good (not great) regular season and faded down the stretch till he flat out imploeded in the playoffs versus the Eagles... The game you want to forget about after your typical excuses were useless a few examples include Wrs weren't open.. They ran the wrong routes... he had a bad night sleep.... Gilbride called a bad game... And God knows what else you've babbled about in attempt to rip the rest of the team so poor Eli looks better</P>


*</P>

where are you wrong?

You jump in the middle of a convrstaion where we are comparing who had the better past two years rivers or eli and you take it to whatever the hell babble u just spewed above.

You then take the argument and change it into Eli's 20 INTs overshadow his whole season.

Only offensive ripping i've down is the fact that the WRs drop more balls collectively than an other unit and they don't create seperation. If you want to argue the fact that they've lead the league in drops (which is a fact) or the fact that they don't create seperation, god bless, but it just shows how little you actually do know about the game of football, which wouldn't be surprising.

And yes, Gilbride sucks. If you want to argue that, then go ahead its my opinion and many others. Even those that hate Eli.

And i repeat qoute me right or don't qoute me at all... i may have to contact a mod about this misqoute u have there

bandwgn86
02-04-2009, 05:24 PM
haha the using ur own words against u thing really upset u didnt it</P>


Ha ha.</P>


I'm STILL waiting for you know who to repond to my post when I proved using mathematics that Eli would statistically have a better career than Montana if they played the same amount of years.</P>


And I can't believe this thread is still alive</P>


</P>


Unfortunately, the likes of you don't have the mental capacity to play the numbers game nor the debate game. So I'm not going to bother. I can repeat myself until I'm blue in the face and both you and Matt still won't get it. It's not my job to educate the both of you. That's something you should have learned in grade school.</P>


please. All you do is paddle back and forth. You can argue it all u want, but if Eli has better numbers than these guys when he retires then u'll just find more excuses. you just can't handle the facts. Because Rivers wasn't ready to go the first two years of his career that means we shouldn't count eli's first two years. lol And if it isn't ur job to talk to us, then don't respond to our threads. That would be step #1 to accomplishing ur goal</P>


I said educate not talk. What excuses do I give? And for what? What exactly am I defending? Besides work has been slow of late so I have nothing better to do then talk to you knuckleheads.</P>


The only thing I've been stating is that your numbers are meaningless. Everything is relative. Relative Relative Relaive. You have problems grasping that concept. Compare different eras all you want (and i repeat that is completely insane). I'll indulge you however.The fact is that if you compare all QBs that have been with their teams for sometime currently, they will all fit your Eli vs Joe Montana comparison. True, Eli isn't that bad, but neither is everyone else - Palmer, Bulger, Ben, Rivers, Delhomme, Hasslebeck, Cutler, Brees, Warner, etc. So if every other QB in the modern era has comparable stats to hall of fame QBs what does that tell you? Here's homework. Figure it out.</P>


Now you're getting it. If you want to compare Rivers to Eli, it's much better then you take their last 2 full seasons (comparable games started) and compare them. Not years played. See the difference?</P>


Why would u do that? Just to help your point? Being in the league for 3 years and only playing one of them, then OBVIOUSLY (or hopfully) your first year playing would be better than a rookie QB going out his rookie year and playing. Thats a fair comparison ground to you? Fact is Eli has been playing since day one and when your going to look at somebodys first 5 years, its their first 5 years in the league, not first 5 years played. If we're going to nitpick like that, then i'd say we're only going to b e able to use Eli 's stats from the beginning of the playoffs last year because thats when we feel he turned the corner.</P>


No. I said LAST two full seasons. You have a point about if you sitfor 3 years then play 2, that your 2 years that you started will be more productiveif you extrapulate those 2 years. .So like I said, take Eli's last 2 years compared to Riverslast 2 years. Fair?</P>


If anything you can go a step further and cut out the outliers. So ignore the first 2 as well as the last 2 years of a persons's career. Thus, you're essentially ruling out the beginnings and declines to someone's career and only taking into account their numbers in their prime. You can even take a step further and say, starting from then on, you take games started and not by years. Then on top of that you can rule out bad weather and only include games in good weather/domes. </P>


If you want to play the numbers game. You gotta do stuff like this. Numbers lie. The best we can do is limit the amount of bullsh*t we need to sift through.</P>


</P>


numbers just don't show the whole picture..i thinkits beenconcluded that the 2 or any 2 QB's cannot be fairly compared so all that is left is what....personalopinion?i've heard you say Ben has better accuracy,how do you determine this. </P>


</P>


Personal opinion? Sorta. There are certain teams I watch every week, aside from the Giants. The Steelers are one of those teams. I can only compare Ben to Eli when it comes to accuracy because I've seen them play almost equally. As for when i mention Rivers, Warner, etc I'm only basing on what I've seen. If someone comes to me and says, "I've watched every game Rivers has been in and he has more problems throwing the ball to an open WR", then he'll have much better say then me.</P>


</P>


would that be an equal amount of timeand how much are you breaking down each passing plays..is there a clear throwing lane or some d line has his hands up or pressure..so many little things... you can give your opinion but cannot state this as a fact, without the 2 going through a QB combine how would anyone know for sure. </P>

peerless
02-04-2009, 05:25 PM
does anybody know what the weather is gonna be like tomorrow?

ManningBowl
02-04-2009, 05:36 PM
oh manninbowl, ur ignorance strikes again 2007 season Eli 3336 yards, 23 tds, 20 ints Rivers 3152 yards, 21 tds, 16 Ints and THEN comes the fact that eli was a superbowl mvp... nice try tho</P>


Where am I wrong ? Eli threw 2o Ints in 2oo7 and the Giants were #6 in Defense and #5 in rushing the ball.. Eli was again his same old mediocre self with a 7o ish Qb rating and the game( Buffalo)we needed to win to make the playoffs Eli was terrible (nothing new there) .. He turned it up and was brilliant in the playoffs and won SB MVP.. This year he had a good (not great) regular season and faded down the stretch till he flat out imploeded in the playoffs versus the Eagles... The game you want to forget about after your typical excuses were useless a few examples include Wrs weren't open.. They ran the wrong routes... he had a bad night sleep.... Gilbride called a bad game... And God knows what else you've babbled about in attempt to rip the rest of the team so poor Eli looks better</P>


</P>


where are you wrong? You jump in the middle of a convrstaion where we are comparing who had the better past two years rivers or eli and you take it to whatever the hell babble u just spewed above. You then take the argument and change it into Eli's 20 INTs overshadow his whole season. Only offensive ripping i've down is the fact that the WRs drop more balls collectively than an other unit and they don't create seperation. If you want to argue the fact that they've lead the league in drops (which is a fact) or the fact that they don't create seperation, god bless, but it just shows how little you actually do know about the game of football, which wouldn't be surprising. And yes, Gilbride sucks. If you want to argue that, then go ahead its my opinion and many others. Even those that hate Eli. And i repeat qoute me right or don't qoute me at all... i may have to contact a mod about this misqoute u have there</P>


Awww Poor Eli all they do is drop his perfect passes every game... Gilbride sucks and so do the Wr's .. Steve Smith wasn't open against the Eagles in the playoffs was he I guess he ran the wrong route.</P>


</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 05:36 PM
for our probowl QB?

Hot and Sunny in Hawaii while he practices wtih the REST of the ALL STAR TEAM

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 05:39 PM
oh manninbowl, ur ignorance strikes again 2007 season Eli 3336 yards, 23 tds, 20 ints Rivers 3152 yards, 21 tds, 16 Ints and THEN comes the fact that eli was a superbowl mvp... nice try tho</P>


Where am I wrong ? Eli threw 2o Ints in 2oo7 and the Giants were #6 in Defense and #5 in rushing the ball.. Eli was again his same old mediocre self with a 7o ish Qb rating and the game( Buffalo)*we needed to win to make the playoffs Eli was terrible (nothing new there) .. He turned it up and was brilliant in the playoffs and won SB MVP.. This year he had a good (not great) regular season and faded down the stretch till he flat out imploeded in the playoffs versus the Eagles... The game you want to forget about after your typical excuses were useless a few examples include Wrs weren't open.. They ran the wrong routes... he had a bad night sleep.... Gilbride called a bad game... And God knows what else you've babbled about in attempt to rip the rest of the team so poor Eli looks better</P>


*</P>


where are you wrong? You jump in the middle of a convrstaion where we are comparing who had the better past two years rivers or eli and you take it to whatever the hell babble u just spewed above. You then take the argument and change it into Eli's 20 INTs overshadow his whole season. Only offensive ripping i've down is the fact that the WRs drop more balls collectively than an other unit and they don't create seperation. If you want to argue the fact that they've lead the league in drops (which is a fact) or the fact that they don't create seperation, god bless, but it just shows how little you actually do know about the game of football, which wouldn't be surprising. And yes, Gilbride sucks. If you want to argue that, then go ahead its my opinion and many others. Even those that hate Eli. And i repeat qoute me right or don't qoute me at all... i may have to contact a mod about this misqoute u have there</P>


Awww Poor Eli all they do is drop his perfect passes every game... Gilbride sucks and so do the Wr's .. Steve Smith wasn't open against the Eagles in the playoffs was he I guess he ran the wrong route.</P>


*</P>


awwwww.... nothing REAL to say.. Just more spew so u don't feel insignificant since everything u've said on the boards the past two days has just been shut down. Don't worry, im sure one day u'll say somethng with some substance where everyone won't kill u for.

Keep pluggin away there tiger

Gianthunter
02-04-2009, 05:40 PM
oh manninbowl, ur ignorance strikes again 2007 season Eli 3336 yards, 23 tds, 20 ints Rivers 3152 yards, 21 tds, 16 Ints and THEN comes the fact that eli was a superbowl mvp... nice try tho</P>


Where am I wrong ? Eli threw 2o Ints in 2oo7 and the Giants were #6 in Defense and #5 in rushing the ball.. Eli was again his same old mediocre self with a 7o ish Qb rating and the game( Buffalo)we needed to win to make the playoffs Eli was terrible (nothing new there) .. He turned it up and was brilliant in the playoffs and won SB MVP.. This year he had a good (not great) regular season and faded down the stretch till he flat out imploeded in the playoffs versus the Eagles... The game you want to forget about after your typical excuses were useless a few examples include Wrs weren't open.. They ran the wrong routes... he had a bad night sleep.... Gilbride called a bad game... And God knows what else you've babbled about in attempt to rip the rest of the team so poor Eli looks better</P>


</P>


where are you wrong? You jump in the middle of a convrstaion where we are comparing who had the better past two years rivers or eli and you take it to whatever the hell babble u just spewed above. You then take the argument and change it into Eli's 20 INTs overshadow his whole season. Only offensive ripping i've down is the fact that the WRs drop more balls collectively than an other unit and they don't create seperation. If you want to argue the fact that they've lead the league in drops (which is a fact) or the fact that they don't create seperation, god bless, but it just shows how little you actually do know about the game of football, which wouldn't be surprising. And yes, Gilbride sucks. If you want to argue that, then go ahead its my opinion and many others. Even those that hate Eli. And i repeat qoute me right or don't qoute me at all... i may have to contact a mod about this misqoute u have there</P>


Awww Poor Eli all they do is drop his perfect passes every game... Gilbride sucks and so do the Wr's .. Steve Smith wasn't open against the Eagles in the playoffs was he I guess he ran the wrong route.</P>


</P>THANK YOU you have confirmed once and for all the agenda. Please refrain from jumping the fence from now on. You only confuse yourself.

sharick88
02-04-2009, 05:48 PM
<FONT size=5>this thread ....</FONT></P>


<FONT size=5></FONT>


















http://www.icybrian.com/flavors/data/media/137/Bleeding_Eyes.jpg
</P>


Totally agree. This thread went to **** as soon as the first post was posted</P>

bandwgn86
02-04-2009, 05:53 PM
anyone one wanna put money down to see if this has the legs to make it to 50 pages....lol lol i'll take that bet that its over</P>


i'll take under.. all we need is someone like giantswinalltime to come on and bore everyone and this threadto death.... </P>

MattMeyerBud
02-04-2009, 05:54 PM
anyone one wanna put money down to see if this has the legs to make it to 50 pages....lol lol i'll take that bet that its over</P>


i'll take under.. all we need is someone like giantswinalltime to come on and bore everyone and this thread*to death.... **</P>

lol it will be over 50 by the time u wake up tomorrow hahah

Gianthunter
02-04-2009, 06:03 PM
What happened they flush MIB?

bigblue4417
02-04-2009, 06:07 PM
Eli has a better drunk face.

http://lowernotes.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/eli1.jpg
http://predominantlyorange.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/ben-drunk.jpg

bandwgn86
02-04-2009, 06:08 PM
anyone one wanna put money down to see if this has the legs to make it to 50 pages....lol lol i'll take that bet that its over</P>


i'll take under.. all we need is someone like giantswinalltime to come on and bore everyone and this threadto death.... </P>


lol it will be over 50 by the time u wake up tomorrow hahah</P>


okay so if you win you can have the quote in my sig lol..the same guy posted that Jerry Rice was justanother draft pick and the 2 quotes won't fit.... </P>

ManningBowl
02-04-2009, 06:18 PM
oh manninbowl, ur ignorance strikes again 2007 season Eli 3336 yards, 23 tds, 20 ints Rivers 3152 yards, 21 tds, 16 Ints and THEN comes the fact that eli was a superbowl mvp... nice try tho</P>


Where am I wrong ? Eli threw 2o Ints in 2oo7 and the Giants were #6 in Defense and #5 in rushing the ball.. Eli was again his same old mediocre self with a 7o ish Qb rating and the game( Buffalo)we needed to win to make the playoffs Eli was terrible (nothing new there) .. He turned it up and was brilliant in the playoffs and won SB MVP.. This year he had a good (not great) regular season and faded down the stretch till he flat out imploeded in the playoffs versus the Eagles... The game you want to forget about after your typical excuses were useless a few examples include Wrs weren't open.. They ran the wrong routes... he had a bad night sleep.... Gilbride called a bad game... And God knows what else you've babbled about in attempt to rip the rest of the team so poor Eli looks better</P>


</P>


where are you wrong? You jump in the middle of a convrstaion where we are comparing who had the better past two years rivers or eli and you take it to whatever the hell babble u just spewed above. You then take the argument and change it into Eli's 20 INTs overshadow his whole season. Only offensive ripping i've down is the fact that the WRs drop more balls collectively than an other unit and they don't create seperation. If you want to argue the fact that they've lead the league in drops (which is a fact) or the fact that they don't create seperation, god bless, but it just shows how little you actually do know about the game of football, which wouldn't be surprising. And yes, Gilbride sucks. If you want to argue that, then go ahead its my opinion and many others. Even those that hate Eli. And i repeat qoute me right or don't qoute me at all... i may have to contact a mod about this misqoute u have there</P>


Awww Poor Eli all they do is drop his perfect passes every game... Gilbride sucks and so do the Wr's .. Steve Smith wasn't open against the Eagles in the playoffs was he I guess he ran the wrong route.</P>


</P>


awwwww.... nothing REAL to say.. Just more spew so u don't feel insignificant since everything u've said on the boards the past two days has just been shut down. Don't worry, im sure one day u'll say somethng with some substance where everyone won't kill u for. Keep pluggin away there tiger</P>


Yeah you shore shut me down with your Eli will have a better career then Montana arguement... Why don't you compare Eli stats to his peers.. Won't do that will ya? </P>

BlueBlitzer
02-04-2009, 06:19 PM
<FONT size=4>All I know and care about, is we Beat the S**t out of both Teams in the SuperBowl this year. In their own Houses. Except to go and Win a SB, what more can your Team do for You ? </FONT>