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LuckOfTuck
02-01-2009, 10:19 PM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]

bleeding blue
02-01-2009, 10:21 PM
I honestly don't think he is.

Ruttiger711
02-01-2009, 10:23 PM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]
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actually he was HARDLY making plays all over the field... and got knocked down quite a bit</P>


but he did what was necessary in the right time just like "our" quarterback</P>

DMAT
02-01-2009, 10:27 PM
boy how quickly people forget....take this the nicest way possible.....your an idiot....look what eli did in last years superbowl and this year up until the team fell apart, and did u not see the 4 INT game ben had vs the giants in pittsburgh? And noI would still take ben over eli, bens been in 2 super bowls, and take away arizonas secondary looking like a high school team on that last drive, he'd have 0 TD's and a couple picks, but please, keep acting like youknow something, as i've stated, your an idiot

Bluefan10
02-01-2009, 10:28 PM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year.** [:(]



What do Joe montana and Eli manning have in common?

Superbowl MVPs and only QBs to throw 2 TDs in the 4th quarter....Also i hate you

CGYgiant
02-01-2009, 10:28 PM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]
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uh......wow ben is not better then eli, steelers always win dispite ben and that 100 yard int return won steelers the game.....</P>

BigBlu397
02-01-2009, 10:29 PM
only a matter of time till this showed up. Chalk this one up to the comedians.

Redeyejedi
02-01-2009, 10:29 PM
until that final drive he failed to get his team in the endzone over and over in the redzone they had plenty of chances to put that game away and settled for field goals but the eli haters dont mention that

LuckOfTuck
02-01-2009, 10:31 PM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]
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</p>


uh......wow ben is not better then eli, steelers always win dispite ben and that 100 yard int return won steelers the game.....</p>
They won this game because Ben was clutch in the end. Eli did it too but let's face it, that Tyree play was a miracle.

DMAT
02-01-2009, 10:31 PM
yea i know, takes ben 7 3/4 quarters in the superbowl to throw a TD pass, yet hes god

elohim
02-01-2009, 10:31 PM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]
What do Joe montana and Eli manning have in common? Superbowl MVPs and only QBs to throw 2 TDs in the 4th quarter....Also i hate you</P>


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wow....now he's in the class of montana????????????????</P>


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<FONT size=6>lord have mercy</FONT></P>

love_me_some_80
02-01-2009, 10:31 PM
I was rooting for Arizona just to spite all Giants fans who want to bring this BS up that Ben is better than Eli. Screw all Giants fans who root against our starting QB and ***** about a guy who won us a Super Bowl in his 3rd full year! ELI is the man in NY until he retires. DEAL WITH IT, ACCEPT IT

GMen869007
02-01-2009, 10:32 PM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]
</p>


</p>


uh......wow ben is not better then eli, steelers always win dispite ben and that 100 yard int return won steelers the game.....</p>
They won this game because Ben was clutch in the end. Eli did it too but let's face it, that Tyree play was a miracle.


That Tyree play doesn't happen if Eli doesn't make that escape and throw down the field. Eli didn't trip and have the ball come out and land 30 yards down the field into Tyree's helmet.

Go ahead and keep calling it a miracle that should've never happend, it just adds to the lore.

LuckOfTuck
02-01-2009, 10:33 PM
I was rooting for Arizona just to spite all Giants fans who want to bring this BS up that Ben is better than Eli. Screw all Giants fans who root against our starting QB and ***** about a guy who won us a Super Bowl in his 3rd full year! ELI is the man in NY until he retires. DEAL WITH IT, ACCEPT IT

I don't root against Eli. I just think that Ben is better than him.

BigBlue_10
02-01-2009, 10:33 PM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]



What do Joe montana and Eli manning have in common?

Superbowl MVPs and only QBs to throw 2 TDs in the 4th quarter....Also i hate you

who cares. 2 super bowls are better than 1. they've been in the league the same number of years and ben has done so much more. on top of that, eli was helped immensely by tyree. holmes made a great catch tonight but it wasn't a miracle.

LuckOfTuck
02-01-2009, 10:34 PM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]



What do Joe montana and Eli manning have in common?

Superbowl MVPs and only QBs to throw 2 TDs in the 4th quarter....Also i hate you

who cares. 2 super bowls are better than 1. they've been in the league the same number of years and ben has done so much more. on top of that, eli was helped immensely by tyree. holmes made a great catch tonight but it wasn't a miracle.

I agree. Ben was terrific and the Steelers O-line is much worse than the giants' O-line. He was running for his life but still made plays.

elohim
02-01-2009, 10:34 PM
I was rooting for Arizona just to spite all Giants fans who want to bring this BS up that Ben is better than Eli. Screw all Giants fans who root against our starting QB and ***** about a guy who won us a Super Bowl in his 3rd full year! ELI is the man in NY until he retires. DEAL WITH IT, ACCEPT IT
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no thank <FONT size=6>strahan</FONT> for winning the superbowl</P>

BigBlue_10
02-01-2009, 10:34 PM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]
</p>


</p>


uh......wow ben is not better then eli, steelers always win dispite ben and that 100 yard int return won steelers the game.....</p>
They won this game because Ben was clutch in the end. Eli did it too but let's face it, that Tyree play was a miracle.


That Tyree play doesn't happen if Eli doesn't make that escape and throw down the field. Eli didn't trip and have the ball come out and land 30 yards down the field into Tyree's helmet.

Go ahead and keep calling it a miracle that should've never happend, it just adds to the lore.


that settles it. eli is better because he didn't trip and escaped a sure sack(roll eyes).

LuckOfTuck
02-01-2009, 10:36 PM
I don't see how you guys can disagree with this. So far in their careers, Ben has better stats and more Super Bowls than Eli.

SmuGiant2008
02-01-2009, 10:38 PM
again Ben rode his defense the entire game.. was the beneficiary of ludicrous officiating and got lucky that the cardinals blew a coverage

elohim
02-01-2009, 10:38 PM
I don't see how you guys can disagree with this. So far in their careers, Ben has better stats and more Super Bowls than Eli.
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AND NEVER THROWS DUCKS </P>


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EVER</P>

Bluefan10
02-01-2009, 10:43 PM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year.** [:(]



What do Joe montana and Eli manning have in common?

Superbowl MVPs and only QBs to throw 2 TDs in the 4th quarter....Also i hate you

who cares. 2 super bowls are better than 1. they've been in the league the same number of years and ben has done so much more. on top of that, eli was helped immensely by tyree. holmes made a great catch tonight but it wasn't a miracle.

I agree. Ben was terrific and the Steelers O-line is much worse than the giants' O-line. He was running for his life but still made plays.


no his Defense made plays. thats why they won 2nite. They won last year cause the hawks screwd up too much...honestly. if u really think ben is actually BETTER than honestly did u even watch it last year? thats a QB

LuckOfTuck
02-01-2009, 10:43 PM
again Ben rode his defense the entire game.. was the beneficiary of ludicrous officiating and got lucky that the cardinals blew a coverage

Please give him some credit. All this moaning is making you look jealous.

blueomaha
02-01-2009, 10:46 PM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]



What do Joe montana and Eli manning have in common?

Superbowl MVPs and only QBs to throw 2 TDs in the 4th quarter....Also i hate you

who cares. 2 super bowls are better than 1. they've been in the league the same number of years and ben has done so much more. on top of that, eli was helped immensely by tyree. holmes made a great catch tonight but it wasn't a miracle.

a great catch is a great catch...on the helmet, on tip-toes,under the arm pit...it doesn't matter how...just if it's a catch......................................stay blue

Bleedin Blue Since '62
02-01-2009, 10:47 PM
<FONT color=#0000ff>Oh my people!</FONT>

paul8669
02-01-2009, 10:50 PM
the only thing that bugs me is that we should have taken holmes!

LuckOfTuck
02-01-2009, 10:52 PM
Please don't remind me that we have Moss instead.

romohater
02-01-2009, 10:53 PM
<FONT color=#0000ff>Oh my people!</FONT></P>


It's a dog eat dog world and right nowEli's wearing milk bone underwear.</P>

pt1028
02-01-2009, 10:53 PM
I was rooting for Arizona just to spite all Giants fans who want to bring this BS up that Ben is better than Eli. Screw all Giants fans who root against our starting QB and ***** about a guy who won us a Super Bowl in his 3rd full year! ELI is the man in NY until he retires. DEAL WITH IT, ACCEPT IT
</P>


</P>


no thank <FONT size=6>strahan</FONT> for winning the superbowl</P>


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And thank Harrison for winning this one for Pittsburgh.</P>

trueblue45
02-01-2009, 10:54 PM
this is such a bizarre thread. Eli last year clearly outplayed Ben this year. It's not a big deal because Ben played fine tonight and that touchdown throw was wonderful and an even better catch by the MVP Santonio Holmes, but honestly, overall, Big Ben was just kind of...meh.

LuckOfTuck
02-01-2009, 10:55 PM
this is such a bizarre thread. Eli last year clearly outplayed Ben this year. It's not a big deal because Ben played fine tonight and that touchdown throw was wonderful and an even better catch by the MVP Santonio Holmes, but honestly, overall, Big Ben was just kind of...meh.
Eli was nothing special for most of the game last year too.

Shockey+Manning=Shocking
02-01-2009, 10:59 PM
Great game! So happy the Steelers won!

BigBlue_10
02-01-2009, 11:00 PM
Please don't remind me that we have Moss instead.


and eli basically rode a good defense last year. so i don't see their point. the only thing i do see is jealousy of the qb we could have had. ben is definitely has a better arm and doesn't need plax to have a good season or game. ben is also tough to take down.

Eli2Plaxico
02-01-2009, 11:00 PM
this is such a bizarre thread. Eli last year clearly outplayed Ben this year. It's not a big deal because Ben played fine tonight and that touchdown throw was wonderful and an even better catch by the MVP Santonio Holmes, but honestly, overall, Big Ben was just kind of...meh. I'm not a fan of Ben either, and he's certainly ridden on the coattails of his defense for those Super Bowl rings. However, Ben did come up big tonight with some key throws including the clutch throw to Holmes on the 2-point safety. Ben won this game tonight just like Eli won last year's game in the final 2 minutes. As for Eli having a great year in 2007 season, Eli had 27 turnovers. That's not great to me.

LT= Lawrence Taylor
02-01-2009, 11:02 PM
In the words of some of the posters who try to take away Eli's accomplishments in last years SB

The defense won this game. If Harrison doesn't get the 100 yard INT return at the end of the half, they don't win the game. Again, they won a SB with the refs in their back pocket and in spite of Ben.

LuckOfTuck
02-01-2009, 11:03 PM
In the words of some of the posters who try to take away Eli's accomplishments in last years SB

The defense won this game. If Harrison doesn't get the 100 yard INT return at the end of the half, they don't win the game. Again, they won a SB with the refs in their back pocket and in spite of Ben.

Please, the refs didn't cost the Cardinals the game, their defense did. Again, this is making you look jealous.

LT= Lawrence Taylor
02-01-2009, 11:05 PM
Great game! So happy the Steelers won!


I'm not. Now we get a whole offseason of Ben is better than Eli threads [:(]

LT= Lawrence Taylor
02-01-2009, 11:06 PM
In the words of some of the posters who try to take away Eli's accomplishments in last years SB

The defense won this game. If Harrison doesn't get the 100 yard INT return at the end of the half, they don't win the game. Again, they won a SB with the refs in their back pocket and in spite of Ben.

Please, the refs didn't cost the Cardinals the game, their defense did. Again, this is making you look jealous.


There was a BS roughing the passer penalty against AZ when was that... in the 4th?

And they SHOULD HAVE reviewed the final play... Warner's incompletion... You get the ball back and a 15 yard penalty on Pittsburgh if you're Arizona. That play should have been looked at. They didn't even stop to think about it. That was BS to the max.

LuckOfTuck
02-01-2009, 11:06 PM
Great game! So happy the Steelers won!


I'm not. Now we get a whole offseason of Ben is better than Eli threads [:(]

Why can't you except the Ben is better now? Of course Eli can still catch up but right now he is behind Ben.

NYG 5
02-01-2009, 11:08 PM
yeah, that is true. they were at the 50 at the time, woulda put them at the 35. thats not even hail mary situation, thats 25 yard pass and run to boldin or fitz. </P>


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trueblue45
02-01-2009, 11:09 PM
this is such a bizarre thread. Eli last year clearly outplayed Ben this year. It's not a big deal because Ben played fine tonight and that touchdown throw was wonderful and an even better catch by the MVP Santonio Holmes, but honestly, overall, Big Ben was just kind of...meh.
Eli was nothing special for most of the game last year too.



Ew...what's that comment all about? It was a tense three quarters against an 18-0 team until the Giants came in and took that championship by the throat. Eli came in with two touchdown passes in the fourth quarter. Big Ben was fine tonight, but like I said, after what I saw last year, meh...

The Steelers D was brilliant, especially that well-studied pick off Warner's unfortunate pass at the end of the half. Ben had nothing to do with that.

He was an admirable participant in tonight's win, but well, meh...

LT= Lawrence Taylor
02-01-2009, 11:09 PM
Great game! So happy the Steelers won!


I'm not. Now we get a whole offseason of Ben is better than Eli threads [:(]

Why can't you except the Ben is better now? Of course Eli can still catch up but right now he is behind Ben.


It's just that I don't want 8 months of Ben is better threads... I just don't....

LuckOfTuck
02-01-2009, 11:10 PM
this is such a bizarre thread. Eli last year clearly outplayed Ben this year. It's not a big deal because Ben played fine tonight and that touchdown throw was wonderful and an even better catch by the MVP Santonio Holmes, but honestly, overall, Big Ben was just kind of...meh.
Eli was nothing special for most of the game last year too.



Ew...what's that comment all about? It was a tense three quarters against an 18-0 team until the Giants came in and took that championship by the throat. Eli came in with two touchdown passes in the fourth quarter. Big Ben was fine tonight, but like I said, after what I saw last year, meh...

The Steelers D was brilliant, especially that well-studied pick off Warner's unfortunate pass at the end of the half. Ben had nothing to do with that.

He was an admirable participant in tonight's win, but well, meh...
The Giants had 3 points through three quarters. That was nothing special.

Harooni
02-01-2009, 11:11 PM
funny how when Eli does little for 3 qtr's and throws a td in the fourth he is a hero but if ben does it. he is riding his Defense.
face it both are good Qb's and BB could have been had for much cheaper. thats just facts, we got a SB from Eli so its not like we got hosed but come on.

Hampton27 missed
02-01-2009, 11:18 PM
funny how when Eli does little for 3 qtr's and throws a td in the fourth he is a hero but if ben does it. he is riding his Defense.
face it both are good Qb's and BB could have been had for much cheaper. thats just facts, we got a SB from Eli so its not like we got hosed but come on.
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Not disagreeing with your total post but points would have been put up had Steve Smith hung on to a pass at the 10 yard line. </P>

BigBlue_10
02-01-2009, 11:21 PM
Great game! So happy the Steelers won!


I'm not. Now we get a whole offseason of Ben is better than Eli threads [:(]

Why can't you except the Ben is better now? Of course Eli can still catch up but right now he is behind Ben.


It's just that I don't want 8 months of Ben is better threads... I just don't....


well it's going to happen so be prepared. all the giants needed this year was a qb to not make mistakes and make big plays. they could have played tonight but eli prevented that from happening. blame him.

Harooni
02-01-2009, 11:25 PM
funny how when Eli does little for 3 qtr's and throws a td in the fourth he is a hero but if ben does it. he is riding his Defense.
face it both are good Qb's and BB could have been had for much cheaper. thats just facts, we got a SB from Eli so its not like we got hosed but come on.
</p>


Not disagreeing with your total post but points would have been put up had Steve Smith hung on to a pass at the 10 yard line. </p>
true, it happens , BB lost a few plays because of O holding. heath miller dropped a sure TD the 2nd qtr.

I agree with you both are good Qb's and Eli is ours so i understand the defending. but other posters not giving him credit is pretty silly.

Hampton27 missed
02-01-2009, 11:25 PM
Please don't remind me that we have Moss instead.


and eli basically rode a good defense last year. so i don't see their point. the only thing i do see is jealousy of the qb we could have had. ben is definitely has a better arm and doesn't need plax to have a good season or game. ben is also tough to take down.
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Hey moron. Pittsburgh's defense was ranked 1st this year and a couple of other years since 2004. Giants haven't had a #1 defense since 1993.</P>

Hampton27 missed
02-01-2009, 11:28 PM
funny how when Eli does little for 3 qtr's and throws a td in the fourth he is a hero but if ben does it. he is riding his Defense.
face it both are good Qb's and BB could have been had for much cheaper. thats just facts, we got a SB from Eli so its not like we got hosed but come on.
</P>


Not disagreeing with your total post but points would have been put up had Steve Smith hung on to a pass at the 10 yard line. </P>



true, it happens , BB lost a few plays because of O holding. heath miller dropped a sure TD the 2nd qtr.

I agree with you both are good Qb's and Eli is ours so i understand the defending. but other posters not giving him credit is pretty silly.
</P>


He definately deserves credit, I thought he was gonna get the MVP. I guess Santonio with the 130+ yards was the only reason he didn't.</P>

LT= Lawrence Taylor
02-01-2009, 11:30 PM
funny how when Eli does little for 3 qtr's and throws a td in the fourth he is a hero but if ben does it. he is riding his Defense.
face it both are good Qb's and BB could have been had for much cheaper. thats just facts, we got a SB from Eli so its not like we got hosed but come on.
</p>


Not disagreeing with your total post but points would have been put up had Steve Smith hung on to a pass at the 10 yard line. </p>



true, it happens , BB lost a few plays because of O holding. heath miller dropped a sure TD the 2nd qtr.

I agree with you both are good Qb's and Eli is ours so i understand the defending. but other posters not giving him credit is pretty silly.
</p>


He definately deserves credit, I thought he was gonna get the MVP. I guess Santonio with the 130+ yards was the only reason he didn't.</p>

It was either gonna be Harrison with the 100 yard TD or Holmes with his big game. Ben played well, but I don't think he deserved it.

Terry McCauley and his officiating crew were the real MVPs....

BigBlue_10
02-01-2009, 11:30 PM
Please don't remind me that we have Moss instead.


and eli basically rode a good defense last year. so i don't see their point. the only thing i do see is jealousy of the qb we could have had. ben is definitely has a better arm and doesn't need plax to have a good season or game. ben is also tough to take down.
</p>


Hey moron. Pittsburgh's defense was ranked 1st this year and a couple of other years since 2004. Giants haven't had a #1 defense since 1993.</p>

that's because the giants didn't embrace spagnuolo's scheme until after the 4th game or so. your comment is nonsensical because you seem to imply that having a good defense means being ranked #1. eli still rode a good defense to the super bowl. the fact that we had to rely on a miracle play while big ben doesn't just makes the giants look bad. people are going to be saying that we won on a fluke. and add to that we couldn't win a single playoff game this year in defense of our title makes us look like one and dones.

Delicreep
02-01-2009, 11:31 PM
funny how when Eli does little for 3 qtr's and throws a td in the fourth he is a hero but if ben does it. he is riding his Defense.
face it both are good Qb's and BB could have been had for much cheaper. thats just facts, we got a SB from Eli so its not like we got hosed but come on.


Here's my problem--you can be just as manipulative with the facts as any Eli lover.

Eli had the ball 1 time in the first quarter of the SB.
Set the mark for longest drive (time)
And I believe it was also record number of consecutive 3rd down conversions (all passes if I am not mistaken)

He didn't throw a TD in the 4th, he threw 2 (also a record for a winning QB)
I assume that the one you were referring to was the game winner (also a record)

Ben had a fantastic game today, but I just can't understand why you have to continually misrepresent Eli's game to make your point.

NYG3085
02-01-2009, 11:33 PM
funny how when Eli does little for 3 qtr's and throws a td in the fourth he is a hero but if ben does it. he is riding his Defense.
face it both are good Qb's and BB could have been had for much cheaper. thats just facts, we got a SB from Eli so its not like we got hosed but come on.
</p>


Not disagreeing with your total post but points would have been put up had Steve Smith hung on to a pass at the 10 yard line. </p>



true, it happens , BB lost a few plays because of O holding. heath miller dropped a sure TD the 2nd qtr.

I agree with you both are good Qb's and Eli is ours so i understand the defending. but other posters not giving him credit is pretty silly.
</p>


He definately deserves credit, I thought he was gonna get the MVP. I guess Santonio with the 130+ yards was the only reason he didn't.</p>

Don't forget the 9 catches Holmes had.

Great game and congratulations to the Pittsburgh Steelers, now in Superbowl Immortality.

trueblue45
02-01-2009, 11:36 PM
this is such a bizarre thread. Eli last year clearly outplayed Ben this year. It's not a big deal because Ben played fine tonight and that touchdown throw was wonderful and an even better catch by the MVP Santonio Holmes, but honestly, overall, Big Ben was just kind of...meh.
Eli was nothing special for most of the game last year too.



Ew...what's that comment all about? It was a tense three quarters against an 18-0 team until the Giants came in and took that championship by the throat. Eli came in with two touchdown passes in the fourth quarter. Big Ben was fine tonight, but like I said, after what I saw last year, meh...

The Steelers D was brilliant, especially that well-studied pick off Warner's unfortunate pass at the end of the half. Ben had nothing to do with that.

He was an admirable participant in tonight's win, but well, meh...
The Giants had 3 points through three quarters. That was nothing special.





It was a tense standoff on both sides and a great three quarters of football to watch. I wouldn't say nothing special because of the scoreboard.

The Patriots had, I think, 7? Was it 7? The point is, the fourth quarter was thrilling--like the final moments of this one was. I don't quite see how Ben comes out on top though. He was solid.

Anyway, both Eli and Ben are good QB's. But, I have to throw this in 'cause I love the Giants...Eli got the MVP. I'm defending the team I love, but really, if I thought Ben outplayed Eli of last year, I would say so. Don't feel bad. We have a good QB too. He'll win you another one.

Mod_C
02-01-2009, 11:39 PM
It was only a matter of time before a thread like this was made...

Why is Ben better? Because he has one more ring? That doesn't necessarily mean that he is better than Eli. I think in reality, both of them are even, but you can't really honestly compare the 2 because they both play in different systems with different coaches and different players. You can't realistically compare 2 players unless they both play in the same system with the same coaches and the same players.

<font color="#ff0000">This offseason is gonna be FUN...</font>

Hampton27 missed
02-01-2009, 11:40 PM
Please don't remind me that we have Moss instead.


and eli basically rode a good defense last year. so i don't see their point. the only thing i do see is jealousy of the qb we could have had. ben is definitely has a better arm and doesn't need plax to have a good season or game. ben is also tough to take down.
</P>


Hey moron. Pittsburgh's defense was ranked 1st this year and a couple of other years since 2004. Giants haven't had a #1 defense since 1993.</P>




that's because the giants didn't embrace spagnuolo's scheme until after the 4th game or so. your comment is nonsensical because you seem to imply that having a good defense means being ranked #1. eli still rode a good defense to the super bowl. the fact that we had to rely on a miracle play while big ben doesn't just makes the giants look bad. people are going to be saying that we won on a fluke. and add to that we couldn't win a single playoff game this year in defense of our title makes us look like one and dones.
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Who cares what people think? Had we won it this year, they would of called it another fluke. Last year, the defense started playing well in game 3.</P>


We were 12=4 this year. The Giants beat Tampa, Cowboys. Greenbay and the undefeated Pats and it wasn't only the defense that did it.</P>

lawl
02-01-2009, 11:50 PM
I'd be happy with either one. It's hard to lock down one. For the people who say hey Ben wouldnt have cost us the extra picks that is without a doubt true, but you have to trust your scouting department to get your guy. Going into the draft we thought he was hands down going to be the best QB out of the three and maybe our scouting thought the other two wouldnt turn out as well, who really knows. He may not be the best but he sure isnt the worst, but he's our guy and thats how it's gonna be.

Bumm
02-01-2009, 11:54 PM
Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.

lawl
02-01-2009, 11:57 PM
Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.

yea only QBs and WRs play in a football game.....dont be a dummy.

Mua Dib
02-01-2009, 11:57 PM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]
TROLL!!!!!

facheme
02-01-2009, 11:57 PM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]


You are an idiot, the difference is the OC for Pitt. He for the most part keeps him in decent situations. Play action and rolll. He is not better than Eli. Eli is the victim of an idiot OC/

Harooni
02-01-2009, 11:58 PM
Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.
checkmate!!

LT= Lawrence Taylor
02-01-2009, 11:59 PM
Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.

That's dumb logic. Ben still had Hines and Holmes, 2 SB MVP as receivers. I say if Eli has those guys, he does well as well.

Hines, Holmes &gt; Hixon, Toomer

Mua Dib
02-02-2009, 12:01 AM
Please don't remind me that we have Moss instead.


and eli basically rode a good defense last year. so i don't see their point. the only thing i do see is jealousy of the qb we could have had. ben is definitely has a better arm and doesn't need plax to have a good season or game. ben is also tough to take down.
</P>


Hey moron. Pittsburgh's defense was ranked 1st this year and a couple of other years since 2004. Giants haven't had a #1 defense since 1993.</P>




that's because the giants didn't embrace spagnuolo's scheme until after the 4th game or so. your comment is nonsensical because you seem to imply that having a good defense means being ranked #1. eli still rode a good defense to the super bowl. the fact that we had to rely on a miracle play while big ben doesn't just makes the giants look bad. people are going to be saying that we won on a fluke. and add to that we couldn't win a single playoff game this year in defense of our title makes us look like one and dones.
</P>


Who cares what people think? Had we won it this year, they would of called it another fluke. Last year, the defense started playing well in game 3.</P>


We were 12=4 this year. The Giants beat Tampa, Cowboys. Greenbay and the undefeated Pats and it wasn't only the defense that did it.</P>Save your breath. You had to know the Trolls would be out in full force after this one. I could hear the lizards slithering as soon as Ben hit Santonio in the endzone.

Mua Dib
02-02-2009, 12:03 AM
Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.
checkmate!!
what exactly is it you as a Giants fan arewinning here rooni? Did Eli retire? Nothing been decided.

Harooni
02-02-2009, 12:08 AM
Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.
checkmate!!
what exactly is it you as a Giants fan arewinning here rooni? Did Eli retire? Nothing been decided.
i'm not winning anything, he made a valid point. a point that imo ends the discussion. Plax counts for 40percent of Eli's career Td's. 6 games without plax 3 td's for eli. there was a huge drop, one can only conclude that Plax's freakish abilty was the key to Eli's success. it doesn't mean i love the steelers now. i can't name you their starting oline. i will always love the giants as long as I live,but i'm not blind.

jgrangers2
02-02-2009, 12:10 AM
Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.
checkmate!!
</P>


This may be the dumbest point of them all. Ben has two very good receivers in Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes. When Plax went down our receivers became a very mediocre bunch. Tonight, Ben was very good, but I thought that the Steeler playcalling really helped him. Of his 21 completions, how many were little screen passes or to guys who were absolutely wide open? When was the last time you saw a Giant receiver as open as Hines Ward was on that first completion of the night? There was nobody within a 10 yard radius of him.</P>

bansaw
02-02-2009, 12:11 AM
funny how when Eli does little for 3 qtr's and throws a td in the fourth he is a hero but if ben does it. he is riding his Defense.
face it both are good Qb's and BB could have been had for much cheaper. thats just facts, we got a SB from Eli so its not like we got hosed but come on.


Here's my problem--you can be just as manipulative with the facts as any Eli lover.

Eli had the ball 1 time in the first quarter of the SB.
Set the mark for longest drive (time)
And I believe it was also record number of consecutive 3rd down conversions (all passes if I am not mistaken)

He didn't throw a TD in the 4th, he threw 2 (also a record for a winning QB)
I assume that the one you were referring to was the game winner (also a record)

Ben had a fantastic game today, but I just can't understand why you have to continually misrepresent Eli's game to make your point.

gumby742
02-02-2009, 12:11 AM
It was only a matter of time before a thread like this was made...

Why is Ben better? Because he has one more ring? That doesn't necessarily mean that he is better than Eli. I think in reality, both of them are even, but you can't really honestly compare the 2 because they both play in different systems with different coaches and different players. You can't realistically compare 2 players unless they both play in the same system with the same coaches and the same players.

<font color="#ff0000">This offseason is gonna be FUN...</font>


If Eli won the SB this year, then I'm certain people here would be saying Eli was "better". In fact, I'll gaurantee it. Flip side of the coin to those exact same people. Is Ben now "better"? Tough to swallow isn't it.

Sad part is, that a lot of people here are just sour grapes and not giving Ben his due.

lawl
02-02-2009, 12:14 AM
It was only a matter of time before a thread like this was made...

Why is Ben better? Because he has one more ring? That doesn't necessarily mean that he is better than Eli. I think in reality, both of them are even, but you can't really honestly compare the 2 because they both play in different systems with different coaches and different players. You can't realistically compare 2 players unless they both play in the same system with the same coaches and the same players.

<font color="#ff0000">This offseason is gonna be FUN...</font>


If Eli won the SB this year, then I'm certain people here would be saying Eli was "better". In fact, I'll gaurantee it. Flip side of the coin to those exact same people. Is Ben now "better"? Tough to swallow isn't it.

Sad part is, that a lot of people here are just sour grapes and not giving Ben his due.



yea alot of people's arguments for eli being better than ben was that eli was sb mvp whereas ben played awful in his sb win. That cant really be said any more.

With that said, who cares

Hampton27 missed
02-02-2009, 12:15 AM
Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.

That's dumb logic. Ben still had Hines and Holmes, 2 SB MVP as receivers. I say if Eli has those guys, he does well as well.

Hines, Holmes &gt; Hixon, Toomer
</P>


We were 12-4 this year and Plax played in 8 games. Eli has won without Plax and against the 2 teams that played in tonights game. Pay no mindto the ignorant.</P>

TrueBlue10
02-02-2009, 12:16 AM
funny how when Eli does little for 3 qtr's and throws a td in the fourth he is a hero but if ben does it. he is riding his Defense.
face it both are good Qb's and BB could have been had for much cheaper. thats just facts, we got a SB from Eli so its not like we got hosed but come on.


Here's my problem--you can be just as manipulative with the facts as any Eli lover.

Eli had the ball 1 time in the first quarter of the SB.
Set the mark for longest drive (time)
And I believe it was also record number of consecutive 3rd down conversions (all passes if I am not mistaken)

He didn't throw a TD in the 4th, he threw 2 (also a record for a winning QB)
I assume that the one you were referring to was the game winner (also a record)

Ben had a fantastic game today, but I just can't understand why you have to continually misrepresent Eli's game to make your point.





PLUS, people around here still try to say it was the defense that got us the win last year.

and while BOTH sides of the football need to show up to win a game, I don't remember our defense making any 100yd TD-preventing/TD-scoring interceptions. do you?

so, I guess all those folks should lay this victory on the Steelers' defense, no?

bottom line: 2 rings is better than 1.... no one can argue that. but 1 ring is all you can ever hope for... and sometimes that's asking too much (Marino, Kelly, etc.)
also, Eli gave us a performance that will go down in SB history and so was named MVP... so far Ben's teammates have outshined his performance each time.

being purely objective, either QB could lead my team anytime. I do happen to think Eli is a classier guy and there is something about his vibe that resonates better with me. I don't think you'd ever hear Eli yelling out "what's up now O-line?! what's up now O-line?!" or whatever Ben was yapping about on the podium tonight....

gumby742
02-02-2009, 12:17 AM
Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.
checkmate!!
</p>


This may be the dumbest point of them all. Ben has two very good receivers in Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes. When Plax went down our receivers became a very mediocre bunch. Tonight, Ben was very good, but I thought that the Steeler playcalling really helped him. Of his 21 completions, how many were little screen passes or to guys who were absolutely wide open? When was the last time you saw a Giant receiver as open as Hines Ward was on that first completion of the night? There was nobody within a 10 yard radius of him.</p>

Seriously how do you know that WRs haven't been getting open? Do you have the sky cam for the entire game? Do you attend all the games? There's little possible way that anyone can say that our WRs get no seperation with any sort of certainty. And at what point to you give Eli the pass where maybe he's just trying to get the ball to the wrong receiver and missing the wide open guy? Again, we'll never know because we can't see the entire field every play.

Hampton27 missed
02-02-2009, 12:19 AM
Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.
checkmate!!
what exactly is it you as a Giants fan arewinning here rooni? Did Eli retire? Nothing been decided.
i'm not winning anything, he made a valid point. a point that imo ends the discussion. Plax counts for 40percent of Eli's career Td's. 6 games without plax 3 td's for eli. there was a huge drop, one can only conclude that Plax's freakish abilty was the key to Eli's success. it doesn't mean i love the steelers now. i can't name you their starting oline. i will always love the giants as long as I live,but i'm not blind.
</P>


Plax only caught 4 of Eli's 21 TDs this year.</P>

Mua Dib
02-02-2009, 12:19 AM
Pittsburg beat an underdog so that makes Ben better. wow.</P>

BigBlue_10
02-02-2009, 12:22 AM
Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.

That's dumb logic. Ben still had Hines and Holmes, 2 SB MVP as receivers. I say if Eli has those guys, he does well as well.

Hines, Holmes &gt; Hixon, Toomer


when will you people learn that eli can't hit the side of a barn? eli can hit 6'6 receivers consistently. Santonio holmes is 5'11 and ward is 6'0. since eli has accuracy issues, he can't hit smaller receivers on a regular basis.

lawl
02-02-2009, 12:25 AM
Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.
checkmate!!
what exactly is it you as a Giants fan arewinning here rooni? Did Eli retire? Nothing been decided.
i'm not winning anything, he made a valid point. a point that imo ends the discussion. Plax counts for 40percent of Eli's career Td's. 6 games without plax 3 td's for eli. there was a huge drop, one can only conclude that Plax's freakish abilty was the key to Eli's success. it doesn't mean i love the steelers now. i can't name you their starting oline. i will always love the giants as long as I live,but i'm not blind.
</p>


Plax only caught 4 of Eli's 21 TDs this year.</p>

but you do have to take into account that because plax is on the field it leaves the other WRs in single coverage on the lesser DBs...

for example,

Tonight Hines didnt do crap really all game except for 1 catch, but the cardinals were set on shutting him down and because of that it opened up things for holmes.

I hope you see what im saying.

Mua Dib
02-02-2009, 12:25 AM
Again did I miss something? Did Eli retire? Man Id hate to play cards with some of you on here, ya win one hand and yor ready to cash in and head home. Its far from over kids and god willing all you Trolls will have the misery of watching Eli lead the Giants to the promised land a couple more times.

BigBlue_10
02-02-2009, 12:25 AM
funny how when Eli does little for 3 qtr's and throws a td in the fourth he is a hero but if ben does it. he is riding his Defense.
face it both are good Qb's and BB could have been had for much cheaper. thats just facts, we got a SB from Eli so its not like we got hosed but come on.


Here's my problem--you can be just as manipulative with the facts as any Eli lover.

Eli had the ball 1 time in the first quarter of the SB.
Set the mark for longest drive (time)
And I believe it was also record number of consecutive 3rd down conversions (all passes if I am not mistaken)

He didn't throw a TD in the 4th, he threw 2 (also a record for a winning QB)
I assume that the one you were referring to was the game winner (also a record)

Ben had a fantastic game today, but I just can't understand why you have to continually misrepresent Eli's game to make your point.





PLUS, people around here still try to say it was the defense that got us the win last year.

and while BOTH sides of the football need to show up to win a game, I don't remember our defense making any 100yd TD-preventing/TD-scoring interceptions. do you?

so, I guess all those folks should lay this victory on the Steelers' defense, no?

bottom line: 2 rings is better than 1.... no one can argue that. but 1 ring is all you can ever hope for... and sometimes that's asking too much (Marino, Kelly, etc.)
also, Eli gave us a performance that will go down in SB history and so was named MVP... so far Ben's teammates have outshined his performance each time.

being purely objective, either QB could lead my team anytime. I do happen to think Eli is a classier guy and there is something about his vibe that resonates better with me. I don't think you'd ever hear Eli yelling out "what's up now O-line?! what's up now O-line?!" or whatever Ben was yapping about on the podium tonight....


first of all, eli should never have been named MVP. Tyree was the one who set up the game winner and also caught the earlier TD pass. eli just got it because of his name, much like his brother the previous year who had a poor super bowl showing and won the MVP regardless. Second, ben is just more consistent. with eli you never know. i'd rather have consistency AND 2 super bowl wins over eli.

jgrangers2
02-02-2009, 12:28 AM
Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.
checkmate!!
</P>


This may be the dumbest point of them all. Ben has two very good receivers in Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes. When Plax went down our receivers became a very mediocre bunch. Tonight, Ben was very good, but I thought that the Steeler playcalling really helped him. Of his 21 completions, how many were little screen passes or to guys who were absolutely wide open? When was the last time you saw a Giant receiver as open as Hines Ward was on that first completion of the night? There was nobody within a 10 yard radius of him.</P>




Seriously how do you know that WRs haven't been getting open? Do you have the sky cam for the entire game? Do you attend all the games? There's little possible way that anyone can say that our WRs get no seperation with any sort of certainty. And at what point to you give Eli the pass where maybe he's just trying to get the ball to the wrong receiver and missing the wide open guy? Again, we'll never know because we can't see the entire field every play.
</P>


Because I think it's reasonable to give Eli, or any NFL QB for that matter,the benefit of the doubt. I find it hard to believe that there are wide receivers that are getting wide open all the time and Eli just keeps missing them. </P>

Mua Dib
02-02-2009, 12:35 AM
Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.
checkmate!!
what exactly is it you as a Giants fan arewinning here rooni? Did Eli retire? Nothing been decided.
i'm not winning anything, he made a valid point. a point that imo ends the discussion. Plax counts for 40percent of Eli's career Td's. 6 games without plax 3 td's for eli. there was a huge drop, one can only conclude that Plax's freakish abilty was the key to Eli's success. it doesn't mean i love the steelers now. i can't name you their starting oline. i will always love the giants as long as I live,but i'm not blind.
</P>


Plax only caught 4 of Eli's 21 TDs this year.</P>First off Eli can defend himself and he will for years to come. Second if anybody thinks the steelers or anybody else would have drafted any QB in that draft ahead of Eli your crazy. We had to compensate to get him from the Chargers. Third a New York Giant team,led by Eli Manning, that nobody gave a snowballs chance in hell beat the undefeated "best team ever" Patriots. Tonight the Steelers beat an underdog.

but you do have to take into account that because plax is on the field it leaves the other WRs in single coverage on the lesser DBs...

for example,

Tonight Hines didnt do crap really all game except for 1 catch, but the cardinals were set on shutting him down and because of that it opened up things for holmes.

I hope you see what im saying.

Hampton27 missed
02-02-2009, 12:37 AM
Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.
checkmate!!
what exactly is it you as a Giants fan arewinning here rooni? Did Eli retire? Nothing been decided.
i'm not winning anything, he made a valid point. a point that imo ends the discussion. Plax counts for 40percent of Eli's career Td's. 6 games without plax 3 td's for eli. there was a huge drop, one can only conclude that Plax's freakish abilty was the key to Eli's success. it doesn't mean i love the steelers now. i can't name you their starting oline. i will always love the giants as long as I live,but i'm not blind.
</P>


Plax only caught 4 of Eli's 21 TDs this year.</P>




but you do have to take into account that because plax is on the field it leaves the other WRs in single coverage on the lesser DBs...

for example,

Tonight Hines didnt do crap really all game except for 1 catch, but the cardinals were set on shutting him down and because of that it opened up things for holmes.

I hope you see what im saying.
</P>


I understand but the comment made was Eli can't play without plax. He played wellagainst Seattle, Cardinals, Pittsburgh and even Carolina.</P>


I really think a lot of you guys try to make something out of nothing. In our last 5 games, Minnesota meant nothing, 2 games were very windy when our opponents defense didn't really have to worry about the pass, and 1 game when the o-line played horrible.</P>


</P>

gumby742
02-02-2009, 12:38 AM
Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.
checkmate!!
</p>


This may be the dumbest point of them all. Ben has two very good receivers in Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes. When Plax went down our receivers became a very mediocre bunch. Tonight, Ben was very good, but I thought that the Steeler playcalling really helped him. Of his 21 completions, how many were little screen passes or to guys who were absolutely wide open? When was the last time you saw a Giant receiver as open as Hines Ward was on that first completion of the night? There was nobody within a 10 yard radius of him.</p>




Seriously how do you know that WRs haven't been getting open? Do you have the sky cam for the entire game? Do you attend all the games? There's little possible way that anyone can say that our WRs get no seperation with any sort of certainty. And at what point to you give Eli the pass where maybe he's just trying to get the ball to the wrong receiver and missing the wide open guy? Again, we'll never know because we can't see the entire field every play.
</p>


Because I think it's reasonable to give Eli, or any NFL QB for that matter,the benefit of the doubt. I find it hard to believe that there are wide receivers that are getting wide open all the time and Eli just keeps missing them. </p>

That's fine. I just think it's a little strange when people say our WRs get no separation when in reality they have no clue. What it boils down to is the excuses are getting old. I'm not addressing this to you specifically btw. But maybe it's time we take a step back and think of our WRs are really that bad or is our QB just making the wrong reads. It's been 5 years. So it's either been our OCs fault or our WRs fault every year. Coming into year 6, if things still haven't changed, you can't deny that something doesn't smell right.

BlueBlitzer
02-02-2009, 12:39 AM
Again did I miss something? Did Eli retire? Man Id hate to play cards with some of you on here, ya win one hand and yor ready to cash in and head home. Its far from over kids and god willing all you Trolls will have the misery of watching Eli lead the Giants to the promised land a couple more times.</P>


<FONT size=4>You're right on the money. If these monkees were writing History books, they'ed call it for the Japanese right after Pearl Harbor. </FONT></P>

lawl
02-02-2009, 12:41 AM
Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.
checkmate!!
what exactly is it you as a Giants fan arewinning here rooni? Did Eli retire? Nothing been decided.
i'm not winning anything, he made a valid point. a point that imo ends the discussion. Plax counts for 40percent of Eli's career Td's. 6 games without plax 3 td's for eli. there was a huge drop, one can only conclude that Plax's freakish abilty was the key to Eli's success. it doesn't mean i love the steelers now. i can't name you their starting oline. i will always love the giants as long as I live,but i'm not blind.
</p>


Plax only caught 4 of Eli's 21 TDs this year.</p>




but you do have to take into account that because plax is on the field it leaves the other WRs in single coverage on the lesser DBs...

for example,

Tonight Hines didnt do crap really all game except for 1 catch, but the cardinals were set on shutting him down and because of that it opened up things for holmes.

I hope you see what im saying.
</p>


I understand but the comment made was Eli can't play without plax. He played wellagainst Seattle, Cardinals, Pittsburgh and even Carolina.</p>


I really think a lot of you guys try to make something out of nothing. In our last 5 games, Minnesota meant nothing, 2 games were very windy when our opponents defense didn't really have to worry about the pass, and 1 game when the o-line played horrible.</p>


</p>

nah ive never gone on the record and said eli cant do well without plax, i was one of the idiots that thought hixon would step in and do just fine, obviously not exactly the case. The way plax plays is quite unique and theres no receiver in the league thats any where near the type that he is. Mind you im not saying hes the best wr in the league just very different.

Mua Dib
02-02-2009, 12:42 AM
Again did I miss something? Did Eli retire? Man Id hate to play cards with some of you on here, ya win one hand and yor ready to cash in and head home. Its far from over kids and god willing all you Trolls will have the misery of watching Eli lead the Giants to the promised land a couple more times.</P>


<FONT size=4>You're right on the money. If these monkees were writing History books, they'ed call it for the Japanese right after Pearl Harbor. </FONT></P>Exactly. I blame it on tv and over indulgent parents.

Harooni
02-02-2009, 12:42 AM
All I know is Bigben wins playoff games at home. Would have been a reat fit in the meadowlands.

ManningBowl
02-02-2009, 12:43 AM
Big Ben is much better then Eli.. he always has been and always will be.. He is bigger stronger and much more accurate.. Alot of Santonio Holmes catches come after a great Big Ben scramble</P>


Just think we could've had the beter Qb and kept the draft picks</P>


Did anybody see that great throw that Ben made to Heath Miller with a man right in is face... Ben can make plays that Eli could only dream of making.. He is accurate somethin Eli has never been</P>

Harooni
02-02-2009, 12:44 AM
Again did I miss something? Did Eli retire? Man Id hate to play cards with some of you on here, ya win one hand and yor ready to cash in and head home. Its far from over kids and god willing all you Trolls will have the misery of watching Eli lead the Giants to the promised land a couple more times.</p>


<font size="4">You're right on the money. If these monkees were writing History books, they'ed call it for the Japanese right after Pearl Harbor. </font></p>
easy there Mccain.

THEMASTER
02-02-2009, 12:48 AM
Well I wont agree except that Ben is more mobile than Eli.....actually the Steelersw were lucky....that toe tapping catch could have been reversed, the interception just before the half, and the series where Pitt drove down aided by penalties was almost too much for Az to overcome....in the END, Offense doesn't win championships and the Az defense which had stolen the momentum in the 2nd half, was just one stop away from a ring. It also proves that its all about team. When the Steelers fell behind they had just given up a safety and a quick score, they could have folded, but they pulled together as a unit. Holmes made the plays and the Az defense did not......Warner played like a man possessed, and in the end, comparing Eli to either is unfair, he was home watching just like the rest of us.....so no kudos to him today. Lets just hope he doesn't get hurt in next weekends nothing bowl.

Mua Dib
02-02-2009, 12:50 AM
Big Ben is much better then Eli.. he always has been and always will be.. He is bigger stronger and much more accurate.. Alot of Santonio Holmes catches come after a great Big Ben scramble</P>


Just think we could've had the beter Qb and kept the draft picks</P>


Did anybody see that great throw that Ben made to Heath Miller with a man right in is face... Ben can make plays that Eli could only dream of making.. He is accurate somethin Eli has never been</P>Is Ben a good kisser?

Harooni
02-02-2009, 12:52 AM
Big Ben is much better then Eli.. he always has been and always will be.. He is bigger stronger and much more accurate.. Alot of Santonio Holmes catches come after a great Big Ben scramble</p>


Just think we could've had the beter Qb and kept the draft picks</p>


Did anybody see that great throw that Ben made to Heath Miller with a man right in is face... Ben can make plays that Eli could only dream of making.. He is accurate somethin Eli has never been</p>Is Ben a good kisser?
yes better than Eli

ManningBowl
02-02-2009, 12:53 AM
Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.
checkmate!!
</P>


This may be the dumbest point of them all. Ben has two very good receivers in Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes. When Plax went down our receivers became a very mediocre bunch. Tonight, Ben was very good, but I thought that the Steeler playcalling really helped him. Of his 21 completions, how many were little screen passes or to guys who were absolutely wide open? When was the last time you saw a Giant receiver as open as Hines Ward was on that first completion of the night? There was nobody within a 10 yard radius of him.</P>




Seriously how do you know that WRs haven't been getting open? Do you have the sky cam for the entire game? Do you attend all the games? There's little possible way that anyone can say that our WRs get no seperation with any sort of certainty. And at what point to you give Eli the pass where maybe he's just trying to get the ball to the wrong receiver and missing the wide open guy? Again, we'll never know because we can't see the entire field every play.
</P>


Because I think it's reasonable to give Eli, or any NFL QB for that matter,the benefit of the doubt. I find it hard to believe that there are wide receivers that are getting wide open all the time and Eli just keeps missing them. </P>


</P>


This is what you fail to realize.. All Qb play diffrently and thats what make some better then others.. Some Qb's see the field better then others, some Qb's anticipate better then others.. Qb's like Big Ben can scramble and throw accurately on the move which allows Wr's to uncover downfield..Some Qb's can stick the ball into tight windows and throw accurately downfield... Eli lacks alot of these qualities so that is why a majority of football fans consider him a average Qb</P>

Hampton27 missed
02-02-2009, 12:54 AM
Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.
checkmate!!
what exactly is it you as a Giants fan arewinning here rooni? Did Eli retire? Nothing been decided.
i'm not winning anything, he made a valid point. a point that imo ends the discussion. Plax counts for 40percent of Eli's career Td's. 6 games without plax 3 td's for eli. there was a huge drop, one can only conclude that Plax's freakish abilty was the key to Eli's success. it doesn't mean i love the steelers now. i can't name you their starting oline. i will always love the giants as long as I live,but i'm not blind.
</P>


Plax only caught 4 of Eli's 21 TDs this year.</P>




but you do have to take into account that because plax is on the field it leaves the other WRs in single coverage on the lesser DBs...

for example,

Tonight Hines didnt do crap really all game except for 1 catch, but the cardinals were set on shutting him down and because of that it opened up things for holmes.

I hope you see what im saying.
</P>


I understand but the comment made was Eli can't play without plax. He played wellagainst Seattle, Cardinals, Pittsburgh and even Carolina.</P>


I really think a lot of you guys try to make something out of nothing. In our last 5 games, Minnesota meant nothing, 2 games were very windy when our opponents defense didn't really have to worry about the pass, and 1 game when the o-line played horrible.</P>


</P>




nah ive never gone on the record and said eli cant do well without plax, i was one of the idiots that thought hixon would step in and do just fine, obviously not exactly the case. The way plax plays is quite unique and theres no receiver in the league thats any where near the type that he is. Mind you im not saying hes the best wr in the league just very different.
</P>


I thought Hixon was gonna step up too. We definately lose something without Plax, but I wouldn't put too much into any of those last 5 games for the reasons I mentioned.</P>


In those games against Philly, they wouldn't have worried about the pass with or without Plax. You can't make a judgement off the Cowboys game because Eli nor the WRs had time to do anything. Minnesota game meant nothing to the Giants but to stay healthy.</P>


It's up to the coaches to make adjustments in games like the ones we played against Philly and the Giants need to bring back the screen pass.</P>

lawl
02-02-2009, 12:56 AM
Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.
checkmate!!
what exactly is it you as a Giants fan arewinning here rooni? Did Eli retire? Nothing been decided.
i'm not winning anything, he made a valid point. a point that imo ends the discussion. Plax counts for 40percent of Eli's career Td's. 6 games without plax 3 td's for eli. there was a huge drop, one can only conclude that Plax's freakish abilty was the key to Eli's success. it doesn't mean i love the steelers now. i can't name you their starting oline. i will always love the giants as long as I live,but i'm not blind.
</p>


Plax only caught 4 of Eli's 21 TDs this year.</p>




but you do have to take into account that because plax is on the field it leaves the other WRs in single coverage on the lesser DBs...

for example,

Tonight Hines didnt do crap really all game except for 1 catch, but the cardinals were set on shutting him down and because of that it opened up things for holmes.

I hope you see what im saying.
</p>


I understand but the comment made was Eli can't play without plax. He played wellagainst Seattle, Cardinals, Pittsburgh and even Carolina.</p>


I really think a lot of you guys try to make something out of nothing. In our last 5 games, Minnesota meant nothing, 2 games were very windy when our opponents defense didn't really have to worry about the pass, and 1 game when the o-line played horrible.</p>


</p>




nah ive never gone on the record and said eli cant do well without plax, i was one of the idiots that thought hixon would step in and do just fine, obviously not exactly the case. The way plax plays is quite unique and theres no receiver in the league thats any where near the type that he is. Mind you im not saying hes the best wr in the league just very different.
</p>


I thought Hixon was gonna step up too. We definately lose something without Plax, but I wouldn't put too much into any of those last 5 games for the reasons I mentioned.</p>


In those games against Philly, they wouldn't have worried about the pass with or without Plax. You can't make a judgement off the Cowboys game because Eli nor the WRs had time to do anything. Minnesota game meant nothing to the Giants but to stay healthy.</p>


It's up to the coaches to make adjustments in games like the ones we played against Philly and the Giants need to bring back the screen pass.</p>

Thats not true at all about the philly games. The first time we played them they doubled plax in some shape or form over 70% of the time, with hixon they doubled him under 15% of the time, which allowed them to commit another player to the run. If they did that **** to plax he wouldve abused them all day, bad winds or not, Hixon wasnt able to.

GiantsNASTAY
02-02-2009, 12:57 AM
Anyone who thinks Eli is all around better then Ben is a fool.

Harooni
02-02-2009, 12:58 AM
This is what you fail to realize.. All Qb play diffrently and thats what make some better then others.. Some Qb's see the field better then others, some Qb's anticipate better then others.. Qb's like Big Ben can scramble and throw accurately on the move which allows Wr's to uncover downfield..Some Qb's can stick the ball into tight windows and throw accurately downfield... Eli lacks alot of these qualities so that is why a majority of football fans consider him a average Qb</p>

this is very true manningbowl, two things i think Eli can do better is read a defense and get rid of the ball quicker.

GiantsNASTAY
02-02-2009, 12:58 AM
I love Eli, but he is not better than Ben. Ben can scramble and extend the plays, is more accurate, stronger and bigger, better and more accurate arm.. and has the better coaching on his side as well.

Hampton27 missed
02-02-2009, 01:04 AM
Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.
checkmate!!
what exactly is it you as a Giants fan arewinning here rooni? Did Eli retire? Nothing been decided.
i'm not winning anything, he made a valid point. a point that imo ends the discussion. Plax counts for 40percent of Eli's career Td's. 6 games without plax 3 td's for eli. there was a huge drop, one can only conclude that Plax's freakish abilty was the key to Eli's success. it doesn't mean i love the steelers now. i can't name you their starting oline. i will always love the giants as long as I live,but i'm not blind.
</P>


Plax only caught 4 of Eli's 21 TDs this year.</P>




but you do have to take into account that because plax is on the field it leaves the other WRs in single coverage on the lesser DBs...

for example,

Tonight Hines didnt do crap really all game except for 1 catch, but the cardinals were set on shutting him down and because of that it opened up things for holmes.

I hope you see what im saying.
</P>


I understand but the comment made was Eli can't play without plax. He played wellagainst Seattle, Cardinals, Pittsburgh and even Carolina.</P>


I really think a lot of you guys try to make something out of nothing. In our last 5 games, Minnesota meant nothing, 2 games were very windy when our opponents defense didn't really have to worry about the pass, and 1 game when the o-line played horrible.</P>


</P>




nah ive never gone on the record and said eli cant do well without plax, i was one of the idiots that thought hixon would step in and do just fine, obviously not exactly the case. The way plax plays is quite unique and theres no receiver in the league thats any where near the type that he is. Mind you im not saying hes the best wr in the league just very different.
</P>


I thought Hixon was gonna step up too. We definately lose something without Plax, but I wouldn't put too much into any of those last 5 games for the reasons I mentioned.</P>


In those games against Philly, they wouldn't have worried about the pass with or without Plax. You can't make a judgement off the Cowboys game because Eli nor the WRs had time to do anything. Minnesota game meant nothing to the Giants but to stay healthy.</P>


It's up to the coaches to make adjustments in games like the ones we played against Philly and the Giants need to bring back the screen pass.</P>




Thats not true at all about the philly games. The first time we played them they doubled plax in some shape or form over 70% of the time, with hixon they doubled him under 15% of the time, which allowed them to commit another player to the run. If they did that **** to plax he wouldve abused them all day, bad winds or not, Hixon wasnt able to.
</P>


The first game in Philly didn't have 25+ MPH winds.</P>


The defenses havethe huge advantage in games with thoses winds. They don't have to worry about a long pass and it shortens the field for them. In games like that they only need to worry about the short stuff and I don't care if Jerry Rice was playing in the game.</P>

Mua Dib
02-02-2009, 01:06 AM
Big Ben is much better then Eli.. he always has been and always will be.. He is bigger stronger and much more accurate.. Alot of Santonio Holmes catches come after a great Big Ben scramble</P>


Just think we could've had the beter Qb and kept the draft picks</P>


Did anybody see that great throw that Ben made to Heath Miller with a man right in is face... Ben can make plays that Eli could only dream of making.. He is accurate somethin Eli has never been</P>Is Ben a good kisser?
yes better than Eli
I'll say this for ya kid your funny. Ya better hope Buzz Aldren doesn't see that pic of yours though, I understand he has a pretty good knuckle game.

ManningBowl
02-02-2009, 01:06 AM
This is what you fail to realize.. All Qb play diffrently and thats what make some better then others.. Some Qb's see the field better then others, some Qb's anticipate better then others.. Qb's like Big Ben can scramble and throw accurately on the move which allows Wr's to uncover downfield..Some Qb's can stick the ball into tight windows and throw accurately downfield... Eli lacks alot of these qualities so that is why a majority of football fans consider him a average Qb</P>




this is very true manningbowl, two things i think Eli can do better is read a defense and get rid of the ball quicker.
</P>


I've always said it that Eli doesn't see the field as well as other Qb's..At times he'llthrow a ball into coverage and at times he likes to stare down one reciever and then force it in the there. Another thing is Eli is just not a very accurate downfield passer.. Anything beyond 20+ yards and the reciever has to adjust.. He just can't consistently make the stick throw into a tight window.</P>


Another thing people forget is that Ben has a terrible O-line who can't block anybody.. They were getting whipped by the Cards D-line.. </P>

byron
02-02-2009, 01:06 AM
Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.
checkmate!!
what exactly is it you as a Giants fan arewinning here rooni? Did Eli retire? Nothing been decided.
i'm not winning anything, he made a valid point. a point that imo ends the discussion. Plax counts for 40percent of Eli's career Td's. 6 games without plax 3 td's for eli. there was a huge drop, one can only conclude that Plax's freakish abilty was the key to Eli's success. it doesn't mean i love the steelers now. i can't name you their starting oline. i will always love the giants as long as I live,but i'm not blind.
</P>


Plax only caught 4 of Eli's 21 TDs this year.</P>




but you do have to take into account that because plax is on the field it leaves the other WRs in single coverage on the lesser DBs...

for example,

Tonight Hines didnt do crap really all game except for 1 catch, but the cardinals were set on shutting him down and because of that it opened up things for holmes.

I hope you see what im saying.
</P>


I understand but the comment made was Eli can't play without plax. He played wellagainst Seattle, Cardinals, Pittsburgh and even Carolina.</P>


I really think a lot of you guys try to make something out of nothing. In our last 5 games, Minnesota meant nothing, 2 games were very windy when our opponents defense didn't really have to worry about the pass, and 1 game when the o-line played horrible.</P>


</P>

nah ive never gone on the record and said eli cant do well without plax, i was one of the idiots that thought hixon would step in and do just fine, obviously not exactly the case. The way plax plays is quite unique and theres no receiver in the league thats any where near the type that he is. Mind you im not saying hes the best wr in the league just very different.
Yeah, lawl same here The last three or four games I kept hoping Hixon would break out it just didn't happen. I agree aboutPlax also there is something about him when you watch him, deceptive comes to mind, long stride, tall a bit of a sleeper maybe. Hey, the best had a hard time covering him.

Harooni
02-02-2009, 01:07 AM
Anyone who thinks Eli is all around better then Ben is a fool.

well there is a lot here. maybe not so much dumb as they are blinded by their love for Eli.

lawl
02-02-2009, 01:08 AM
Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.
checkmate!!
what exactly is it you as a Giants fan arewinning here rooni? Did Eli retire? Nothing been decided.
i'm not winning anything, he made a valid point. a point that imo ends the discussion. Plax counts for 40percent of Eli's career Td's. 6 games without plax 3 td's for eli. there was a huge drop, one can only conclude that Plax's freakish abilty was the key to Eli's success. it doesn't mean i love the steelers now. i can't name you their starting oline. i will always love the giants as long as I live,but i'm not blind.
</p>


Plax only caught 4 of Eli's 21 TDs this year.</p>




but you do have to take into account that because plax is on the field it leaves the other WRs in single coverage on the lesser DBs...

for example,

Tonight Hines didnt do crap really all game except for 1 catch, but the cardinals were set on shutting him down and because of that it opened up things for holmes.

I hope you see what im saying.
</p>


I understand but the comment made was Eli can't play without plax. He played wellagainst Seattle, Cardinals, Pittsburgh and even Carolina.</p>


I really think a lot of you guys try to make something out of nothing. In our last 5 games, Minnesota meant nothing, 2 games were very windy when our opponents defense didn't really have to worry about the pass, and 1 game when the o-line played horrible.</p>


</p>




nah ive never gone on the record and said eli cant do well without plax, i was one of the idiots that thought hixon would step in and do just fine, obviously not exactly the case. The way plax plays is quite unique and theres no receiver in the league thats any where near the type that he is. Mind you im not saying hes the best wr in the league just very different.
</p>


I thought Hixon was gonna step up too. We definately lose something without Plax, but I wouldn't put too much into any of those last 5 games for the reasons I mentioned.</p>


In those games against Philly, they wouldn't have worried about the pass with or without Plax. You can't make a judgement off the Cowboys game because Eli nor the WRs had time to do anything. Minnesota game meant nothing to the Giants but to stay healthy.</p>


It's up to the coaches to make adjustments in games like the ones we played against Philly and the Giants need to bring back the screen pass.</p>




Thats not true at all about the philly games. The first time we played them they doubled plax in some shape or form over 70% of the time, with hixon they doubled him under 15% of the time, which allowed them to commit another player to the run. If they did that **** to plax he wouldve abused them all day, bad winds or not, Hixon wasnt able to.
</p>


The first game in Philly didn't have 25+ MPH winds.</p>


The defenses havethe huge advantage in games with thoses winds. They don't have to worry about a long pass and it shortens the field for them. In games like that they only need to worry about the short stuff and I don't care if Jerry Rice was playing in the game.</p>

Yea, sorry but if they didnt double Plax he wouldve made them pay in that game by beating the jam on slants, and like you've said before, eli has had good games in the wind before....

jgrangers2
02-02-2009, 01:09 AM
Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.
checkmate!!
</P>


This may be the dumbest point of them all. Ben has two very good receivers in Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes. When Plax went down our receivers became a very mediocre bunch. Tonight, Ben was very good, but I thought that the Steeler playcalling really helped him. Of his 21 completions, how many were little screen passes or to guys who were absolutely wide open? When was the last time you saw a Giant receiver as open as Hines Ward was on that first completion of the night? There was nobody within a 10 yard radius of him.</P>




Seriously how do you know that WRs haven't been getting open? Do you have the sky cam for the entire game? Do you attend all the games? There's little possible way that anyone can say that our WRs get no seperation with any sort of certainty. And at what point to you give Eli the pass where maybe he's just trying to get the ball to the wrong receiver and missing the wide open guy? Again, we'll never know because we can't see the entire field every play.
</P>


Because I think it's reasonable to give Eli, or any NFL QB for that matter,the benefit of the doubt. I find it hard to believe that there are wide receivers that are getting wide open all the time and Eli just keeps missing them. </P>


</P>


This is what you fail to realize.. All Qb play diffrently and thats what make some better then others.. Some Qb's see the field better then others, some Qb's anticipate better then others.. Qb's like Big Ben can scramble and throw accurately on the move which allows Wr's to uncover downfield..Some Qb's can stick the ball into tight windows and throw accurately downfield... Eli lacks alot of these qualities so that is why a majority of football fans consider him a average Qb</P>


</P>


The one thing that Ben has clearly on Eli is his mobility, which allows his receivers to uncover. That said, if you watched the game today, you should've seen a very notable difference between the Steelers and the Giants. How many screen passes and dump offs did Roethlisberger throw? I counted at least 5 or 6. Without Plax, our receivers become mediocre, especially when you consider that we don't have a reliable safety valve. You guys like to treat Eli as if he misses open receivers all over the place, but today I saw Ben underthrow a couple of wide open players. I also know you guys LOVE to point out that Asante Samuel almost pick from last year, but I'm sure you'll gladly ignore the pass that Dominique Rogers-Cromartie should've picked off when Ben underthrew a wide open Nate Washington. </P>

NewYorkDave
02-02-2009, 01:14 AM
It is a good debate but until Eli can brin home another won Big Ben will win it every time. Ben had a better team around him this year. Some of Eli's mainmates sort of let him down. Plax did in a big way. Antonio Pierce did by showing up out of shape. Toomer did by throwing the team under the bus in an interview. Jacobs did but not on purpose....his injuries cost us though. I love our team but we had too many players seeking out the spot light this year and believing their own hype. You may see that on the Steelers now but you didn't before the game today. They humbled themselves behind Ben, who is good but not great, and because they had faith in the system they got the job done.</P>


I love Eli and his skills are right there with Ben's. They do different things at the position. Eli is more accurate and has a better arm. Ben is a master at avoiding pressure. They are both cool under pressure and don't let mistakes ruin their day. One on one it is pretty close but in a sport where the man at that particular position will shoulder all the blame and get all the credit whether they deserve it or not I have to give the edge to Big Ben. It's all about the hardware as we remind Eagle fans eeryday.....Ben 2 Eli 1. The competition is far from over. Until next year</P>

Hampton27 missed
02-02-2009, 01:15 AM
Lawl, I'm going by what will be the toughest to do in those conditions. Sure the Giants and Plax may make a play to burn the other team (Hixon almost burned them) but the chances are much less. As a DC, you go withyour best chances. In 25 MPH winds, the DC will play the short field, they will NOT keep their safeties back. They will focus on the running game no matter.

lawl
02-02-2009, 01:17 AM
I think theres even quotes of Jim johnson saying he changed the gameplan because plax wasnt going to be in....

giantsfan85
02-02-2009, 01:19 AM
Let me put this to rest. Ben has two Super Bowl Championships. With that in mind he has zero Super Bowl MVP's. What does that say? He shows up but isn't the best at the game nor does he play the best at the end. He is good and has a great D behind him, but the real star was Holmes. Eli can win games but apparently cannot play in the wind. I don't know but I would say as of right now its Ben 2 and Eli one. We measure greatness based on championships, so for now Ben has the advantage.

Harooni
02-02-2009, 01:19 AM
It is a good debate but until Eli can brin home another won Big Ben will win it every time. Ben had a better team around him this year. Some of Eli's mainmates sort of let him down. </p>
sorry Eli had the #1 rushing attack, #3 defense and a very good Oline. this nonesense that pitts and sandaigo have better teams around there QB is pure bs and a slap in the face to the rest of our good team.

paul8669
02-02-2009, 01:20 AM
Please don't remind me that we have Moss instead.
</P>


</P>


this is the root of the problem. the dropped balls. hixon, moss can't do anything. noone could get open once plax was out. </P>


</P>


ward can catch but jacob's is not a good screen type back. bradshaw is not used enough and gilbride didn't change once plax got hurt.</P>


last year was one of the most exceiting things i've ever seen in my life. maybe pittsburgh feels that way now, but if warner does not throw that pick at the end of the 2st half the cardinals win.</P>


as well the lack of discipline and utter crap that the steelers showed especially #92 punching the guy twice was disgusting.</P>


</P>


maybe ben is better, i don't know. the whole story has not ended yet. we beat both of these teams this year. both of them!</P>


plax is healthy and gilbride changes play selection and if carney didn't choke we may have won again!</P>

ManningBowl
02-02-2009, 01:22 AM
It is a good debate but until Eli can brin home another won Big Ben will win it every time. Ben had a better team around him this year. Some of Eli's mainmates sort of let him down. Plax did in a big way. Antonio Pierce did by showing up out of shape. Toomer did by throwing the team under the bus in an interview. Jacobs did but not on purpose....his injuries cost us though. I love our team but we had too many players seeking out the spot light this year and believing their own hype. You may see that on the Steelers now but you didn't before the game today. They humbled themselves behind Ben, who is good but not great, and because they had faith in the system they got the job done.</P>


I love Eli and his skills are right there with Ben's. They do different things at the position. <FONT size=5>Eli</FONT> <FONT size=5>is more accurate</FONT> <FONT size=5>and</FONT> <FONT size=5>has</FONT> <FONT size=5>a</FONT> <FONT size=5>better arm</FONT>. Ben is a master at avoiding pressure. They are both cool under pressure and don't let mistakes ruin their day. One on one it is pretty close but in a sport where the man at that particular position will shoulder all the blame and get all the credit whether they deserve it or not I have to give the edge to Big Ben. It's all about the hardware as we remind Eagle fans eeryday.....Ben 2 Eli 1. The competition is far from over. Until next year</P>


</P>


Come on.. Ben's arm is much stronger then Eli's and he is much more accurate</P>

Champs212542
02-02-2009, 01:25 AM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]



What do Joe montana and Eli manning have in common?

Superbowl MVPs and only QBs to throw 2 TDs in the 4th quarter....Also i hate you

Only Eli did it when his team NEEDED A TOUCHDOWN! Montana needed a field goal. So the edge goes to Eli.

Mua Dib
02-02-2009, 01:26 AM
It is a good debate but until Eli can brin home another won Big Ben will win it every time. Ben had a better team around him this year. Some of Eli's mainmates sort of let him down. </P>
sorry Eli had the #1 rushing attack, #3 defense and a very good Oline. this nonesense that pitts and sandaigo have better teams around there QB is pure bs and a slap in the face to the rest of our good team.
The Giants have a great team. That said ya can't discount the effect the whole Plax thing had on and off the feild. It was just too weird, we were smooth sailing up to then and it was like blowing a tire doing 70 mph, completely unexpected, impossible to ignore and left everybody pretty shook up.

Hampton27 missed
02-02-2009, 01:26 AM
I think theres even quotes of Jim johnson saying he changed the gameplan because plax wasnt going to be in....
</P>


He did say that, but I think he would of used the same game plan either way knowing the conditions of the game. I also think the Giants would have capitolized in the passing game without those winds.</P>


No DC will worry about the long passing game under those circumstances. Dumpoffs to Westbrook killed us in the first game and that's why I was pissed off at our defense. (Our defense had the advantage too and they couldn't caritolize)</P>

Harooni
02-02-2009, 01:28 AM
It is a good debate but until Eli can brin home another won Big Ben will win it every time. Ben had a better team around him this year. Some of Eli's mainmates sort of let him down. </p>
sorry Eli had the #1 rushing attack, #3 defense and a very good Oline. this nonesense that pitts and sandaigo have better teams around there QB is pure bs and a slap in the face to the rest of our good team.
The Giants have a great team. That said ya can't discount the effect the whole Plax thing had on and off the feild. It was just too weird, we were smooth sailing up to then and it was like blowing a tire doing 70 mph, completely unexpected, impossible to ignore and left everybody pretty shook up.
i see your point, but we won the very next game though.

Mua Dib
02-02-2009, 01:28 AM
It is a good debate but until Eli can brin home another won Big Ben will win it every time. Ben had a better team around him this year. Some of Eli's mainmates sort of let him down. Plax did in a big way. Antonio Pierce did by showing up out of shape. Toomer did by throwing the team under the bus in an interview. Jacobs did but not on purpose....his injuries cost us though. I love our team but we had too many players seeking out the spot light this year and believing their own hype. You may see that on the Steelers now but you didn't before the game today. They humbled themselves behind Ben, who is good but not great, and because they had faith in the system they got the job done.</P>


I love Eli and his skills are right there with Ben's. They do different things at the position. <FONT size=5>Eli</FONT> <FONT size=5>is more accurate</FONT> <FONT size=5>and</FONT> <FONT size=5>has</FONT> <FONT size=5>a</FONT> <FONT size=5>better arm</FONT>. Ben is a master at avoiding pressure. They are both cool under pressure and don't let mistakes ruin their day. One on one it is pretty close but in a sport where the man at that particular position will shoulder all the blame and get all the credit whether they deserve it or not I have to give the edge to Big Ben. It's all about the hardware as we remind Eagle fans eeryday.....Ben 2 Eli 1. The competition is far from over. Until next year</P>


</P>


Come on.. Ben's arm is much stronger then Eli's and he is much more accurate</P>and Rooni says he's a better kisser.

lawl
02-02-2009, 01:28 AM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]



What do Joe montana and Eli manning have in common?

Superbowl MVPs and only QBs to throw 2 TDs in the 4th quarter....Also i hate you

What do Jon Kitna and Eli manning have in common? They both threw the most interceptions in 07 season...comparisons are dumb when trying to prove a point as you can see.

NewYorkDave
02-02-2009, 01:29 AM
It is a good debate but until Eli can brin home another won Big Ben will win it every time. Ben had a better team around him this year. Some of Eli's mainmates sort of let him down. </P>



sorry Eli had the #1 rushing attack, #3 defense and a very good Oline. this nonesense that pitts and sandaigo have better teams around there QB is pure bs and a slap in the face to the rest of our good team.
</P>


We did have a great team but obviously it wasn't good enough. Our offense let the abscense of one man dictate what we did. The Steelers offense was much worse then ours but never let the play of their offensive line and the injury to Hines Ward slow them down. Not to mention the lack luster running game led. This was a team game and they got the job done as a collective whole. We did not. And Eli's mates DID let him down. Pierce is fat and out of shape and he proclaims himself as the leader of our defense. Plus he is out at night clubs drinking three days before a game. I can pretty much bet my life that Harrison and Polamalu haven't seen the inside of a night club since last off season. Our team is defintiely more talented and has the tools but we need to refocus on football. </P>


And I do not think it is a slap in the face to say the Super Bowl champs had a better all round team....and I said nothing at all about San Diego....they suck. I hate Rivers and Tomlinson has no heart.....oh yeah and Merriman is a cheatin steriod using punk.</P>

Hampton27 missed
02-02-2009, 01:32 AM
It is a good debate but until Eli can brin home another won Big Ben will win it every time. Ben had a better team around him this year. Some of Eli's mainmates sort of let him down. Plax did in a big way. Antonio Pierce did by showing up out of shape. Toomer did by throwing the team under the bus in an interview. Jacobs did but not on purpose....his injuries cost us though. I love our team but we had too many players seeking out the spot light this year and believing their own hype. You may see that on the Steelers now but you didn't before the game today. They humbled themselves behind Ben, who is good but not great, and because they had faith in the system they got the job done.</P>


I love Eli and his skills are right there with Ben's. They do different things at the position. <FONT size=5>Eli</FONT> <FONT size=5>is more accurate</FONT> <FONT size=5>and</FONT> <FONT size=5>has</FONT> <FONT size=5>a</FONT> <FONT size=5>better arm</FONT>. Ben is a master at avoiding pressure. They are both cool under pressure and don't let mistakes ruin their day. One on one it is pretty close but in a sport where the man at that particular position will shoulder all the blame and get all the credit whether they deserve it or not I have to give the edge to Big Ben. It's all about the hardware as we remind Eagle fans eeryday.....Ben 2 Eli 1. The competition is far from over. Until next year</P>


</P>


Come on.. Ben's arm is much stronger then Eli's and he is much more accurate</P>


</P>


I don't know who's arm is stronger, but I heard Eli has a very strong arm. Stronger than Peytons.</P>

Harooni
02-02-2009, 01:32 AM
It is a good debate but until Eli can brin home another won Big Ben will win it every time. Ben had a better team around him this year. Some of Eli's mainmates sort of let him down. </p>



sorry Eli had the #1 rushing attack, #3 defense and a very good Oline. this nonesense that pitts and sandaigo have better teams around there QB is pure bs and a slap in the face to the rest of our good team.
</p>


We did have a great team but obviously it wasn't good enough. Our offense let the abscense of one man dictate what we did. The Steelers offense was much worse then ours but never let the play of their offensive line and the injury to Hines Ward slow them down. Not to mention the lack luster running game led. This was a team game and they got the job done as a collective whole. We did not. And Eli's mates DID let him down. Pierce is fat and out of shape and he proclaims himself as the leader of our defense. Plus he is out at night clubs drinking three days before a game. I can pretty much bet my life that Harrison and Polamalu haven't seen the inside of a night club since last off season. Our team is defintiely more talented and has the tools but we need to refocus on football. </p>


And I do not think it is a slap in the face to say the Super Bowl champs had a better all round team....and I said nothing at all about San Diego....they suck. I hate Rivers and Tomlinson has no heart.....oh yeah and Merriman is a cheatin steriod using punk.</p>
and Eli did not let them down vs the egals?

Mua Dib
02-02-2009, 01:33 AM
It is a good debate but until Eli can brin home another won Big Ben will win it every time. Ben had a better team around him this year. Some of Eli's mainmates sort of let him down. </P>
sorry Eli had the #1 rushing attack, #3 defense and a very good Oline. this nonesense that pitts and sandaigo have better teams around there QB is pure bs and a slap in the face to the rest of our good team.
The Giants have a great team. That said ya can't discount the effect the whole Plax thing had on and off the feild. It was just too weird, we were smooth sailing up to then and it was like blowing a tire doing 70 mph, completely unexpected, impossible to ignore and left everybody pretty shook up.
i see your point, but we won the very next game though.
I didnt say the car blew up. It appeared to me the post Plax meltdown can really be traced back to the 2nd game against Philly. When that pass bounced off Hixons hands in the first quarter it never felt like Eli or the rest of the team ever really got back on track. I'm not putting it on Hixon, it was like the whole team started playing scared with a sense of doom.

NewYorkDave
02-02-2009, 01:34 AM
It is a good debate but until Eli can brin home another won Big Ben will win it every time. Ben had a better team around him this year. Some of Eli's mainmates sort of let him down. Plax did in a big way. Antonio Pierce did by showing up out of shape. Toomer did by throwing the team under the bus in an interview. Jacobs did but not on purpose....his injuries cost us though. I love our team but we had too many players seeking out the spot light this year and believing their own hype. You may see that on the Steelers now but you didn't before the game today. They humbled themselves behind Ben, who is good but not great, and because they had faith in the system they got the job done.</P>


I love Eli and his skills are right there with Ben's. They do different things at the position. <FONT size=5>Eli</FONT> <FONT size=5>is more accurate</FONT> <FONT size=5>and</FONT> <FONT size=5>has</FONT> <FONT size=5>a</FONT> <FONT size=5>better arm</FONT>. Ben is a master at avoiding pressure. They are both cool under pressure and don't let mistakes ruin their day. One on one it is pretty close but in a sport where the man at that particular position will shoulder all the blame and get all the credit whether they deserve it or not I have to give the edge to Big Ben. It's all about the hardware as we remind Eagle fans eeryday.....Ben 2 Eli 1. The competition is far from over. Until next year</P>


</P>


Come on.. Ben's arm is much stronger then Eli's and he is much more accurate</P>


</P>


I respectgully disagree. Eli is very accurate and has a cannon when he is unleashed. Difference between Eli and Ben in that department is Ben has a guy like Santonio Holmes as a # 2 guy. He has the speed to break out. The Giants don't have anyone of great talent that can do that. Maybe in time with a guy like Hixon. Until then Eli will have to rely on fade routes and button hooks because that is all our receivers are capable of. Don't get me wrong it is very effective but you rarely see us call plays that send a guy 25 yards over the middle and that is because we don't have those type of guys. You get to see glimpses of what I am talking about though. Case and point is Tyree's touch down in the SB last year. That was a laser beam and in heavy hevay traffic. Also the pin point throw to Boss ont hat 44 yard gain in the 4th quarter.</P>

briandjoyce
02-02-2009, 01:36 AM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]
Agreed 100%

NewYorkDave
02-02-2009, 01:36 AM
It is a good debate but until Eli can brin home another won Big Ben will win it every time. Ben had a better team around him this year. Some of Eli's mainmates sort of let him down. </P>



sorry Eli had the #1 rushing attack, #3 defense and a very good Oline. this nonesense that pitts and sandaigo have better teams around there QB is pure bs and a slap in the face to the rest of our good team.
</P>


We did have a great team but obviously it wasn't good enough. Our offense let the abscense of one man dictate what we did. The Steelers offense was much worse then ours but never let the play of their offensive line and the injury to Hines Ward slow them down. Not to mention the lack luster running game led. This was a team game and they got the job done as a collective whole. We did not. And Eli's mates DID let him down. Pierce is fat and out of shape and he proclaims himself as the leader of our defense. Plus he is out at night clubs drinking three days before a game. I can pretty much bet my life that Harrison and Polamalu haven't seen the inside of a night club since last off season. Our team is defintiely more talented and has the tools but we need to refocus on football. </P>


And I do not think it is a slap in the face to say the Super Bowl champs had a better all round team....and I said nothing at all about San Diego....they suck. I hate Rivers and Tomlinson has no heart.....oh yeah and Merriman is a cheatin steriod using punk.</P>



and Eli did not let them down vs the egals?
</P>


Who stepped up for Eli? Dropped passes and missed opportunities lost us that game. Not Eli.</P>

Mua Dib
02-02-2009, 01:37 AM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]
Agreed 100%
Bens no Tebow [:)]

Harooni
02-02-2009, 01:38 AM
It is a good debate but until Eli can brin home another won Big Ben will win it every time. Ben had a better team around him this year. Some of Eli's mainmates sort of let him down. </p>



sorry Eli had the #1 rushing attack, #3 defense and a very good Oline. this nonesense that pitts and sandaigo have better teams around there QB is pure bs and a slap in the face to the rest of our good team.
</p>


We did have a great team but obviously it wasn't good enough. Our offense let the abscense of one man dictate what we did. The Steelers offense was much worse then ours but never let the play of their offensive line and the injury to Hines Ward slow them down. Not to mention the lack luster running game led. This was a team game and they got the job done as a collective whole. We did not. And Eli's mates DID let him down. Pierce is fat and out of shape and he proclaims himself as the leader of our defense. Plus he is out at night clubs drinking three days before a game. I can pretty much bet my life that Harrison and Polamalu haven't seen the inside of a night club since last off season. Our team is defintiely more talented and has the tools but we need to refocus on football. </p>


And I do not think it is a slap in the face to say the Super Bowl champs had a better all round team....and I said nothing at all about San Diego....they suck. I hate Rivers and Tomlinson has no heart.....oh yeah and Merriman is a cheatin steriod using punk.</p>



and Eli did not let them down vs the egals?
</p>


Who stepped up for Eli? Dropped passes and missed opportunities lost us that game. Not Eli.</p>
So Nothing was Eli's fault in that game? Wow have a nice night ,the lunatic response unit should be with you shortly.

Hate_it_or_love_it
02-02-2009, 01:39 AM
OKAY!!!! lets face it. Eli has led the Giants to the playoffs more times than Big Ben has led the Steelers to the playoffs. Eli has led the Giants to the playoffs ever since he started for a full season. Eli Manning was MVP of SB XLII. Big Ben has never been MVP of anything involving the NFL. (http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2009/01/list-super-bowl-mvp-winners-prediction/) Eli Manning plays in a run first offense. Big Ben does not. Eli Manning plays in NYC...the craziest city on Earth. Big Ben does not. Eli Manning does not have the best recievers in the NFL. Big Ben has some of them.

Point of this post: OC!!! Please let ELI RUN A NO HUDDLE!!! SB EVERY YEAR!!!

nycsportzfan
02-02-2009, 01:40 AM
this is such a bizarre thread. Eli last year clearly outplayed Ben this year. It's not a big deal because Ben played fine tonight and that touchdown throw was wonderful and an even better catch by the MVP Santonio Holmes, but honestly, overall, Big Ben was just kind of...meh.
Eli was nothing special for most of the game last year too.



Ew...what's that comment all about? It was a tense three quarters against an 18-0 team until the Giants came in and took that championship by the throat. Eli came in with two touchdown passes in the fourth quarter. Big Ben was fine tonight, but like I said, after what I saw last year, meh...

The Steelers D was brilliant, especially that well-studied pick off Warner's unfortunate pass at the end of the half. Ben had nothing to do with that.

He was an admirable participant in tonight's win, but well, meh...man, i just watched game againg last night on NFL network, and we were very lucky eli did not throw pick on that final drive. It was absoulute destiny, 2 times on final drive eli very nearly got picked. I don't know why everyone gets defensive about the fact that eli is just averege, and happen to not make big mistake in playoffs, he didn't have 1 spectaculer game, and we had awesome D, timley. turnovers, good run game, some big punt returns. I don't think it's a crime as some make it out, not nessicarily you, to state what everyone has seen with eli throughout career which is Just OK. We all root for him, but that don't make him what he's not yet.

Harooni
02-02-2009, 01:42 AM
OKAY!!!! lets face it. Eli has led the Giants to the playoffs more times than Big Ben has led the Steelers to the playoffs. Eli has led the Giants to the playoffs ever since he started for a full season. Eli Manning was MVP of SB XLII. Big Ben has never been MVP of anything involving the NFL. (http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2009/01/list-super-bowl-mvp-winners-prediction/) Eli Manning plays in a run first offense. Big Ben does not. Eli Manning plays in NYC...the craziest city on Earth. Big Ben does not. Eli Manning does not have the best recievers in the NFL. Big Ben has some of them.

Point of this post: OC!!! Please let ELI RUN A NO HUDDLE!!! SB EVERY YEAR!!!

sorry 2005 that was tiki barber running wild on the skins to get us in. and Eli's home embarrasment that sent us packing. but Eli has had his momments and drives I agree.

nycsportzfan
02-02-2009, 01:44 AM
It is a good debate but until Eli can brin home another won Big Ben will win it every time. Ben had a better team around him this year. Some of Eli's mainmates sort of let him down. </p>



sorry Eli had the #1 rushing attack, #3 defense and a very good Oline. this nonesense that pitts and sandaigo have better teams around there QB is pure bs and a slap in the face to the rest of our good team.
</p>


We did have a great team but obviously it wasn't good enough. Our offense let the abscense of one man dictate what we did. The Steelers offense was much worse then ours but never let the play of their offensive line and the injury to Hines Ward slow them down. Not to mention the lack luster running game led. This was a team game and they got the job done as a collective whole. We did not. And Eli's mates DID let him down. Pierce is fat and out of shape and he proclaims himself as the leader of our defense. Plus he is out at night clubs drinking three days before a game. I can pretty much bet my life that Harrison and Polamalu haven't seen the inside of a night club since last off season. Our team is defintiely more talented and has the tools but we need to refocus on football. </p>


And I do not think it is a slap in the face to say the Super Bowl champs had a better all round team....and I said nothing at all about San Diego....they suck. I hate Rivers and Tomlinson has no heart.....oh yeah and Merriman is a cheatin steriod using punk.</p>



and Eli did not let them down vs the egals?
</p>


Who stepped up for Eli? Dropped passes and missed opportunities lost us that game. Not Eli.</p> whoa, did you watch game??? Eli was key factor from play one missing steve smith streaking to end of game.

NewYorkDave
02-02-2009, 01:46 AM
OKAY!!!! lets face it. Eli has led the Giants to the playoffs more times than Big Ben has led the Steelers to the playoffs. Eli has led the Giants to the playoffs ever since he started for a full season. Eli Manning was MVP of SB XLII. Big Ben has never been MVP of anything involving the NFL. (http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2009/01/list-super-bowl-mvp-winners-prediction/) Eli Manning plays in a run first offense. Big Ben does not. Eli Manning plays in NYC...the craziest city on Earth. Big Ben does not. Eli Manning does not have the best recievers in the NFL. Big Ben has some of them.

Point of this post: OC!!! Please let ELI RUN A NO HUDDLE!!! SB EVERY YEAR!!!
</P>


Good points especially by mentioning Ben's receivers. Eli is better hands down. you can not argue with talent. You can't argue hardware either. ben led his team down the field. he made some pefect throws on that last drive. he is pretty good too. But when Plax wasn't around Eli didn't have a guy who stepped up and demanded attention like Holmes does for the Steelers. </P>

Harooni
02-02-2009, 01:46 AM
man, i just watched game againg last night on NFL network, and we were very lucky eli did not throw pick on that final drive. It was absoulute destiny, 2 times on final drive eli very nearly got picked. I don't know why everyone gets defensive about the fact that eli is just averege, and happen to not make big mistake in playoffs, he didn't have 1 spectaculer game, and we had awesome D, timley. turnovers, good run game, some big punt returns. I don't think it's a crime as some make it out, not nessicarily you, to state what everyone has seen with eli throughout career which is Just OK. We all root for him, but that don't make him what he's not yet.

because we live in Reality and they don't thats why they curse and get so defensive about Eli. the truth is he is good, up and down QB We wan thim to be great but that desn't mean we are blind.

Mua Dib
02-02-2009, 01:52 AM
man, i just watched game againg last night on NFL network, and we were very lucky eli did not throw pick on that final drive. It was absoulute destiny, 2 times on final drive eli very nearly got picked. I don't know why everyone gets defensive about the fact that eli is just averege, and happen to not make big mistake in playoffs, he didn't have 1 spectaculer game, and we had awesome D, timley. turnovers, good run game, some big punt returns. I don't think it's a crime as some make it out, not nessicarily you, to state what everyone has seen with eli throughout career which is Just OK. We all root for him, but that don't make him what he's not yet.

because we live in Reality and they don't thats why they curse and get so defensive about Eli. the truth is he is good, up and down QB We wan thim to be great but that desn't mean we are blind.
The moon landing was shot on a hollywood set guy is giving lectures on living in reality. I'm sorry please go on.

NewYorkDave
02-02-2009, 01:54 AM
It is a good debate but until Eli can brin home another won Big Ben will win it every time. Ben had a better team around him this year. Some of Eli's mainmates sort of let him down. </P>



sorry Eli had the #1 rushing attack, #3 defense and a very good Oline. this nonesense that pitts and sandaigo have better teams around there QB is pure bs and a slap in the face to the rest of our good team.
</P>


We did have a great team but obviously it wasn't good enough. Our offense let the abscense of one man dictate what we did. The Steelers offense was much worse then ours but never let the play of their offensive line and the injury to Hines Ward slow them down. Not to mention the lack luster running game led. This was a team game and they got the job done as a collective whole. We did not. And Eli's mates DID let him down. Pierce is fat and out of shape and he proclaims himself as the leader of our defense. Plus he is out at night clubs drinking three days before a game. I can pretty much bet my life that Harrison and Polamalu haven't seen the inside of a night club since last off season. Our team is defintiely more talented and has the tools but we need to refocus on football. </P>


And I do not think it is a slap in the face to say the Super Bowl champs had a better all round team....and I said nothing at all about San Diego....they suck. I hate Rivers and Tomlinson has no heart.....oh yeah and Merriman is a cheatin steriod using punk.</P>



and Eli did not let them down vs the egals?
</P>


Who stepped up for Eli? Dropped passes and missed opportunities lost us that game. Not Eli.</P>


whoa, did you watch game??? Eli was key factor from play one missing steve smith streaking to end of game.
</P>


So Eli has to be perfect to get your respect? How about dumb calls by the coaching staff. Everyone inthe world knew Eli was going for the QB sneak on 4th and one. How about telgraphing every run by Jacobs and Ward? How about not using Bradshaw one goddamn time. The coaches got away from what we did best and put their hopes in guys like Hixon to get separation and make plays. Sure Eli made a couple of bad throws but the weather was terrible. Why did we not defer the ball and take the wind? That gave away field position for the rest of the game. Eli was definitely not perfect but the coaching staff did not put him in a good position to win that game. We put all our hopes into Hixon being phenomenal and he wasn't. That and Smith and Toomer were no where to be found. No one breaks away fromt he route whent he coverage is good. </P>


I am not saying Eli doesn't deservesome blame but too many people want to put it all on him and that is not accurate at all</P>

Harooni
02-02-2009, 01:55 AM
man, i just watched game againg last night on NFL network, and we were very lucky eli did not throw pick on that final drive. It was absoulute destiny, 2 times on final drive eli very nearly got picked. I don't know why everyone gets defensive about the fact that eli is just averege, and happen to not make big mistake in playoffs, he didn't have 1 spectaculer game, and we had awesome D, timley. turnovers, good run game, some big punt returns. I don't think it's a crime as some make it out, not nessicarily you, to state what everyone has seen with eli throughout career which is Just OK. We all root for him, but that don't make him what he's not yet.

because we live in Reality and they don't thats why they curse and get so defensive about Eli. the truth is he is good, up and down QB We wan thim to be great but that desn't mean we are blind.
The moon landing was shot on a hollywood set guy is giving lectures on living in reality. I'm sorry please go on.

LOL touche, my exotic Eli lover. the truth will come out in time my friend. Humans can not safely pass through the van allen radition belts in a tin can from 1960. is 2009 and we still can't figure out how to do it safely.

Mua Dib
02-02-2009, 02:01 AM
man, i just watched game againg last night on NFL network, and we were very lucky eli did not throw pick on that final drive. It was absoulute destiny, 2 times on final drive eli very nearly got picked. I don't know why everyone gets defensive about the fact that eli is just averege, and happen to not make big mistake in playoffs, he didn't have 1 spectaculer game, and we had awesome D, timley. turnovers, good run game, some big punt returns. I don't think it's a crime as some make it out, not nessicarily you, to state what everyone has seen with eli throughout career which is Just OK. We all root for him, but that don't make him what he's not yet.

because we live in Reality and they don't thats why they curse and get so defensive about Eli. the truth is he is good, up and down QB We wan thim to be great but that desn't mean we are blind.
The moon landing was shot on a hollywood set guy is giving lectures on living in reality. I'm sorry please go on.

LOL touche, my exotic Eli lover. the truth will come out in time my friend. Humans can not safely pass through the van allen radition belts in a tin can from 1960. is 2009 and we still can't figure out how to do it safely.
Eli can.

NewYorkDave
02-02-2009, 02:02 AM
man, i just watched game againg last night on NFL network, and we were very lucky eli did not throw pick on that final drive. It was absoulute destiny, 2 times on final drive eli very nearly got picked. I don't know why everyone gets defensive about the fact that eli is just averege, and happen to not make big mistake in playoffs, he didn't have 1 spectaculer game, and we had awesome D, timley. turnovers, good run game, some big punt returns. I don't think it's a crime as some make it out, not nessicarily you, to state what everyone has seen with eli throughout career which is Just OK. We all root for him, but that don't make him what he's not yet.

because we live in Reality and they don't thats why they curse and get so defensive about Eli. the truth is he is good, up and down QB We wan thim to be great but that desn't mean we are blind.
The moon landing was shot on a hollywood set guy is giving lectures on living in reality. I'm sorry please go on.</P>


We are dealing with people that would rather see David Carr because he played good once at the end of meaningless game in Minnesota (week17). Eli does it week in and week out in a run first offense and then always always takes the blame in a loss. Then he comes back out the next wee or next year and is unphased by the ridicule people love to toss his way. That is a guy I want behind center. he hasn't been great yet but he has been really really good. We win 12 games and you guys say it is all because of this and that. We lose one and you point the finger directly at Eli. Don't you thinkt hat is a bit of a double standard?</P>

ManningBowl
02-02-2009, 02:12 AM
Most of the games we won Eli hans't even passed for 2oo yards with plenty of pass attempts.. The Giants are the best running team in the league and have a top 5 Defense.... Our pass Offense is mediocre and has been every year Eli's been under Center</P>


Eli gets ripped for the playoff loss because he was terrible missingopen Wr's and throwing 2 Idiotic Int's.. The rest of the team played well enough to win... They just couldn't overcome a inept Qb.</P>

Mua Dib
02-02-2009, 02:14 AM
man, i just watched game againg last night on NFL network, and we were very lucky eli did not throw pick on that final drive. It was absoulute destiny, 2 times on final drive eli very nearly got picked. I don't know why everyone gets defensive about the fact that eli is just averege, and happen to not make big mistake in playoffs, he didn't have 1 spectaculer game, and we had awesome D, timley. turnovers, good run game, some big punt returns. I don't think it's a crime as some make it out, not nessicarily you, to state what everyone has seen with eli throughout career which is Just OK. We all root for him, but that don't make him what he's not yet.

because we live in Reality and they don't thats why they curse and get so defensive about Eli. the truth is he is good, up and down QB We wan thim to be great but that desn't mean we are blind.
The moon landing was shot on a hollywood set guy is giving lectures on living in reality. I'm sorry please go on.</P>


We are dealing with people that would rather see David Carr because he played good once at the end of meaningless game in Minnesota (week17). Eli does it week in and week out in a run first offense and then always always takes the blame in a loss. Then he comes back out the next wee or next year and is unphased by the ridicule people love to toss his way. That is a guy I want behind center. he hasn't been great yet but he has been really really good. We win 12 games and you guys say it is all because of this and that. We lose one and you point the finger directly at Eli. Don't you thinkt hat is a bit of a double standard?</P>They have alot invested in Eli. Most of his detractors have been running thier mouths against him to anyone who would listen,since he was drafted. So after the SB last year the following monday at work or school or the bar or wherever everybody who had listened to the anti-eli rants were more than happy to hit these trolls with a loud "Eli really came through huh?" which of course made the Trolls hate him even more because he embarrased them with his success. Its a vicious cycle of abuse.

byron
02-02-2009, 02:23 AM
It is a good debate but until Eli can brin home another won Big Ben will win it every time. Ben had a better team around him this year. Some of Eli's mainmates sort of let him down. </P>



sorry Eli had the #1 rushing attack, #3 defense and a very good Oline. this nonesense that pitts and sandaigo have better teams around there QB is pure bs and a slap in the face to the rest of our good team.
</P>


We did have a great team but obviously it wasn't good enough. Our offense let the abscense of one man dictate what we did. The Steelers offense was much worse then ours but never let the play of their offensive line and the injury to Hines Ward slow them down. Not to mention the lack luster running game led. This was a team game and they got the job done as a collective whole. We did not. And Eli's mates DID let him down. Pierce is fat and out of shape and he proclaims himself as the leader of our defense. Plus he is out at night clubs drinking three days before a game. I can pretty much bet my life that Harrison and Polamalu haven't seen the inside of a night club since last off season. Our team is defintiely more talented and has the tools but we need to refocus on football. </P>


And I do not think it is a slap in the face to say the Super Bowl champs had a better all round team....and I said nothing at all about San Diego....they suck. I hate Rivers and Tomlinson has no heart.....oh yeah and Merriman is a cheatin steriod using punk.</P>



and Eli did not let them down vs the egals?
</P>


Who stepped up for Eli? Dropped passes and missed opportunities lost us that game. Not Eli.</P>


whoa, did you watch game??? Eli was key factor from play one missing steve smith streaking to end of game.
</P>


So Eli has to be perfect to get your respect? How about dumb calls by the coaching staff. Everyone inthe world knew Eli was going for the QB sneak on 4th and one. How about telgraphing every run by Jacobs and Ward? How about not using Bradshaw one goddamn time. The coaches got away from what we did best and put their hopes in guys like Hixon to get separation and make plays. Sure Eli made a couple of bad throws but the weather was terrible. Why did we not defer the ball and take the wind? That gave away field position for the rest of the game. Eli was definitely not perfect but the coaching staff did not put him in a good position to win that game. We put all our hopes into Hixon being phenomenal and he wasn't. That and Smith and Toomer were no where to be found. No one breaks away fromt he route whent he coverage is good. </P>


I am not saying Eli doesn't deservesome blame but too many people want to put it all on him and that is not accurate at all</P> Good post I have said this before and I will say it again this was a total team loss players and coaches alike divy it up how ever you want . My hope is that they all see there part in it, andlearn from it. If they do they will get better if they don't who knows.

1986Bavaro
02-02-2009, 06:02 AM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]


<font color="#0000ff">You are </font><font color="#0000ff" size="6">WRONG!</font>

eli#10nyg
02-02-2009, 06:06 AM
boy how quickly people forget....take this the nicest way possible.....your an idiot....look what eli did in last years superbowl and this year up until the team fell apart, and did u not see the 4 INT game ben had vs the giants in pittsburgh? And noI would still take ben over eli, bens been in 2 super bowls, and take away <U>arizonas secondary looking like a high school team on that last drive</U>, he'd have 0 TD's and a couple picks, but please, keep acting like youknow something, as i've stated, your an idiot</P>


arizona's defense was too hungry. they sensed a win and tried to muscle it away from pittsburgh, basically they tried to play pittsburgh style. ben and the steelers marched down the field on arizona's over aggressive defense. then pittsburghs defense showed arizona how it was done by stifiling warner on zona's last drive.</P>

Bashum_Blue
02-02-2009, 10:16 AM
The fact that this thread even exists is a testament to the overwhelming ignorance of young football fans today.

bELIeve_in_Giants
02-02-2009, 10:32 AM
If Arizona had won, you'd have 8 months of threads about how we should have kept Kurt Warner. If the Titans had won, you'd have 8 months of threads about how we should have kept Kerry Collins. If the Chargers had won, you'd have 8 months of threads about how we should've kept Rivers. If the Colts had won, you'd have 8 months of threads about how Eli will never live up to Peyton.

NewYorkDave
02-02-2009, 10:34 AM
Most of the games we won Eli hans't even passed for 2oo yards with plenty of pass attempts.. The Giants are the best running team in the league and have a top 5 Defense.... Our pass Offense is mediocre and has been every year Eli's been under Center</P>


Eli gets ripped for the playoff loss because he was terrible missingopen Wr's and throwing 2 Idiotic Int's.. The rest of the team played well enough to win... They just couldn't overcome a inept Qb.</P>


</P>


So the 2 missed field goals had nothing to do with it. Every good offense starts with a good running game. Where was "Earth Wind and Fire" at the end? We didn't even use Bradshaw. Gilbride telegraphed every single run for the defense. If we have such a mediocre offense then why were top 5 in offense int he whole freaking league this year. We were 12-4 with top ranked offense....for a long time this year we led the league in total offense....probably would have stayed that way had Plax not scrwed us and BJ stayed healthy.</P>


How about that? BJ is hurt every year he has plaedand at key times in the year. I love him but why does no one take a pund of flesh from him. After Plaxico all Eli has to throw to is an aging Toomer, Steve Smith, who is good but not a game breaker, and a guy that we ourselves overrated in Hixon. Gilbride didn't use Boss at all.</P>


Eli derseves some blame but mediocre he is not. He makes all the throws most of the time. Eli haters want him to make all the throws all of the time. No QB does this.....no QB wins every year either. It is how that QB responds after a bad game that is what matters. And if you think a guy that throws 300+ every game is the key just take a look at Drew Brees. Dude was almost breaking records this year and he didn't even make the playoffs. Peyton didn't even win until Bob Sanders cam along and the defense got good. </P>


I have faith Eli will respond and you should too.....what in his tenure has ever made you think otherwise. He will only be better next year as he has been every year since he has been in the league.</P>

gumby742
02-02-2009, 10:35 AM
Talk about sour grapes.</P>


Some of you need to look in the mirror. Had Eli won his second SB, this board would be full of Eli is better then Ben. So to those people, shut the hell up you hypocrites.</P>

gumby742
02-02-2009, 10:36 AM
The fact that this thread even exists is a testament to the overwhelming ignorance of young football fans today.
</P>


How is it ignorant?</P>

Mua Dib
02-02-2009, 10:38 AM
Talk about sour grapes.</P>


Some of you need to look in the mirror. Had Eli won his second SB, this board would be full of Eli is better then Ben. So to those people, shut the hell up you hypocrites.</P>Gee ya think? what with this being a Giants msg board and all?

NewYorkDave
02-02-2009, 10:39 AM
If Arizona had won, you'd have 8 months of threads about how we should have kept Kurt Warner. If the Titans had won, you'd have 8 months of threads about how we should have kept Kerry Collins. If the Chargers had won, you'd have 8 months of threads about how we should've kept Rivers. If the Colts had won, you'd have 8 months of threads about how Eli will never live up to Peyton.</P>


Unfrtunatelt that is the reality. You would think a playoff appearance every year, a Super Bowl win, and a SB MVP would be enough. People want Eli to be the second coming instead of just being Eli. I imagine Phil Simms went through similar times because he was not like Dan Marino.....In ten years after Eli retires with 2 or 3 rings on his finger and we are going throught he transitional phase at quarterback again maybe these peole will learn to appreciate him more. </P>

ny06
02-02-2009, 10:41 AM
this is like comparing apples to oranges. They are both good quaterbacks. Ben did the job last night and got his second superbowl in 4 seasons. I do beleive eli will have another shot at the superbowl beofre his career is over. But overall ability eli is better. That is not a knock on big ben

gumby742
02-02-2009, 10:47 AM
Anyway, for the last couple minutes of the game and the half, I'll take Eli any day. However, for the rest of the game, I'd take Ben.</P>


But god, Ben and his sacks would drive me insane if he was a Giant.</P>

LuckOfTuck
02-02-2009, 10:50 AM
this is like comparing apples to oranges. They are both good quaterbacks. Ben did the job last night and got his second superbowl in 4 seasons. I do beleive eli will have another shot at the superbowl beofre his career is over. But overall ability eli is better. That is not a knock on big ben
You're wrong. Ben is clearly more talented than Eli.

ErnestTBass
02-02-2009, 10:53 AM
this is like comparing apples to oranges. They are both good quaterbacks. Ben did the job last night and got his second superbowl in 4 seasons. I do beleive eli will have another shot at the superbowl beofre his career is over. But overall ability eli is better. That is not a knock on big ben</P>


Tha main difference is that Ben is much more accurate and throws a much better ball in bad weather. Is Big Ben bettr than Eli? Clearly the answer is "Yes", and only the Giant homers would say otherwise. I am a huge Giant fan, but also a realist - Ben is definitely a better QB, as he is bigger, stronger and a much better Athlete. In addition, Ben is a leader on the field, something Eli still lacks.</P>

GiantsNASTAY
02-02-2009, 10:59 AM
Good post Ernest. Also Ben can scramble and make something out of a dead play

mm82
02-02-2009, 11:03 AM
<FONT size=2>Ben has the edge because he has more super bowls and I thought played pretty well last night. Eli will have another shot to make his claim for being better.</FONT>

Mua Dib
02-02-2009, 11:03 AM
Anyway, for the last couple minutes of the game and the half, I'll take Eli any day. However, for the rest of the game, I'd take Ben.</P>


But god, Ben and his sacks would drive me insane if he was a Giant.</P>They're both really remarkable young QBs but Bens sacks and ints would drive me crazy too.

NewYorkDave
02-02-2009, 11:04 AM
this is like comparing apples to oranges. They are both good quaterbacks. Ben did the job last night and got his second superbowl in 4 seasons. I do beleive eli will have another shot at the superbowl beofre his career is over. But overall ability eli is better. That is not a knock on big ben</P>


Tha main difference is that Ben is much more accurate and throws a much better ball in bad weather. Is Big Ben bettr than Eli? Clearly the answer is "Yes", and only the Giant homers would say otherwise. I am a huge Giant fan, but also a realist - Ben is definitely a better QB, as he is bigger, stronger and a much better Athlete. In addition, Ben is a leader on the field, something Eli still lacks.</P>


</P>


Eli wasn't a leader on the field last year? He didn't lead his team into sub zero temps in Green Bay and come away with a win. He didn't hit Tyree in the endzone or Boss for that 44 yard gain in the Super Bowl (with pin point accuracy I may add)? He didn't pump fake the crap out of they guy who was on Burress when he hit him in the endzone to win the Super Bowl? He didn't lead us on the field this year against the Panthers in the best game played all year to clinch the conference? lastly, eli didn't go 9-14 for 150+ yards in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl agaisnt the best team of our generation and win the MVP? </P>


Point is Eli is pretty good too. Ben is not clearly better. I think it is abetter debate then you give it credit for.</P>


PS: Eli has a stronger arm then Ben. </P>

O-Line for Cabinet
02-02-2009, 11:09 AM
More successful does not = Better.

LuckOfTuck
02-02-2009, 11:18 AM
this is like comparing apples to oranges. They are both good quaterbacks. Ben did the job last night and got his second superbowl in 4 seasons. I do beleive eli will have another shot at the superbowl beofre his career is over. But overall ability eli is better. That is not a knock on big ben</p>


Tha main difference is that Ben is much more accurate and throws a much better ball in bad weather. Is Big Ben bettr than Eli? Clearly the answer is "Yes", and only the Giant homers would say otherwise. I am a huge Giant fan, but also a realist - Ben is definitely a better QB, as he is bigger, stronger and a much better Athlete. In addition, Ben is a leader on the field, something Eli still lacks.</p>


</p>


Eli wasn't a leader on the field last year? He didn't lead his team into sub zero temps in Green Bay and come away with a win. He didn't hit Tyree in the endzone or Boss for that 44 yard gain in the Super Bowl (with pin point accuracy I may add)? He didn't pump fake the crap out of they guy who was on Burress when he hit him in the endzone to win the Super Bowl? He didn't lead us on the field this year against the Panthers in the best game played all year to clinch the conference? lastly, eli didn't go 9-14 for 150+ yards in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl agaisnt the best team of our generation and win the MVP? </p>


Point is Eli is pretty good too. Ben is not clearly better. I think it is abetter debate then you give it credit for.</p>


PS: Eli has a stronger arm then Ben. </p>
Then why does he throw so many ducks?

BlueBlitzer
02-02-2009, 11:29 AM
this is like comparing apples to oranges. They are both good quaterbacks. Ben did the job last night and got his second superbowl in 4 seasons. I do beleive eli will have another shot at the superbowl beofre his career is over. But overall ability eli is better. That is not a knock on big ben</P>


Tha main difference is that Ben is much more accurate and throws a much better ball in bad weather. Is Big Ben bettr than Eli? Clearly the answer is "Yes", and only the Giant homers would say otherwise. I am a huge Giant fan, but also a realist - Ben is definitely a better QB, as he is bigger, stronger and a much better Athlete. In addition, Ben is a leader on the field, something Eli still lacks.</P>


</P>


Eli wasn't a leader on the field last year? He didn't lead his team into sub zero temps in Green Bay and come away with a win. He didn't hit Tyree in the endzone or Boss for that 44 yard gain in the Super Bowl (with pin point accuracy I may add)? He didn't pump fake the crap out of they guy who was on Burress when he hit him in the endzone to win the Super Bowl? He didn't lead us on the field this year against the Panthers in the best game played all year to clinch the conference? lastly, eli didn't go 9-14 for 150+ yards in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl agaisnt the best team of our generation and win the MVP? </P>


Point is Eli is pretty good too. Ben is not clearly better. I think it is abetter debate then you give it credit for.</P>


PS: Eli has a stronger arm then Ben. </P>
Then why does he throw so many ducks?
<FONT size=4>His brother throws Ducks, and He has all the stats</FONT>

LuckOfTuck
02-02-2009, 11:31 AM
this is like comparing apples to oranges. They are both good quaterbacks. Ben did the job last night and got his second superbowl in 4 seasons. I do beleive eli will have another shot at the superbowl beofre his career is over. But overall ability eli is better. That is not a knock on big ben</p>


Tha main difference is that Ben is much more accurate and throws a much better ball in bad weather. Is Big Ben bettr than Eli? Clearly the answer is "Yes", and only the Giant homers would say otherwise. I am a huge Giant fan, but also a realist - Ben is definitely a better QB, as he is bigger, stronger and a much better Athlete. In addition, Ben is a leader on the field, something Eli still lacks.</p>


</p>


Eli wasn't a leader on the field last year? He didn't lead his team into sub zero temps in Green Bay and come away with a win. He didn't hit Tyree in the endzone or Boss for that 44 yard gain in the Super Bowl (with pin point accuracy I may add)? He didn't pump fake the crap out of they guy who was on Burress when he hit him in the endzone to win the Super Bowl? He didn't lead us on the field this year against the Panthers in the best game played all year to clinch the conference? lastly, eli didn't go 9-14 for 150+ yards in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl agaisnt the best team of our generation and win the MVP? </p>


Point is Eli is pretty good too. Ben is not clearly better. I think it is abetter debate then you give it credit for.</p>


PS: Eli has a stronger arm then Ben. </p>
Then why does he throw so many ducks?
<font size="4">His brother throws Ducks, and He has all the stats</font>
No he doesn't.

Gianthunter
02-02-2009, 11:34 AM
this is like comparing apples to oranges. They are both good quaterbacks. Ben did the job last night and got his second superbowl in 4 seasons. I do beleive eli will have another shot at the superbowl beofre his career is over. But overall ability eli is better. That is not a knock on big ben</P>


Tha main difference is that Ben is much more accurate and throws a much better ball in bad weather. Is Big Ben bettr than Eli? Clearly the answer is "Yes", and only the Giant homers would say otherwise. I am a huge Giant fan, but also a realist - Ben is definitely a better QB, as he is bigger, stronger and a much better Athlete. In addition, Ben is a leader on the field, something Eli still lacks.</P>


</P>


Eli wasn't a leader on the field last year? He didn't lead his team into sub zero temps in Green Bay and come away with a win. He didn't hit Tyree in the endzone or Boss for that 44 yard gain in the Super Bowl (with pin point accuracy I may add)? He didn't pump fake the crap out of they guy who was on Burress when he hit him in the endzone to win the Super Bowl? He didn't lead us on the field this year against the Panthers in the best game played all year to clinch the conference? lastly, eli didn't go 9-14 for 150+ yards in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl agaisnt the best team of our generation and win the MVP? </P>


Point is Eli is pretty good too. Ben is not clearly better. I think it is abetter debate then you give it credit for.</P>


PS: Eli has a stronger arm then Ben. </P>
Then why does he throw so many ducks?
How many is so many?

NewYorkDave
02-02-2009, 11:35 AM
this is like comparing apples to oranges. They are both good quaterbacks. Ben did the job last night and got his second superbowl in 4 seasons. I do beleive eli will have another shot at the superbowl beofre his career is over. But overall ability eli is better. That is not a knock on big ben</P>


Tha main difference is that Ben is much more accurate and throws a much better ball in bad weather. Is Big Ben bettr than Eli? Clearly the answer is "Yes", and only the Giant homers would say otherwise. I am a huge Giant fan, but also a realist - Ben is definitely a better QB, as he is bigger, stronger and a much better Athlete. In addition, Ben is a leader on the field, something Eli still lacks.</P>


</P>


Eli wasn't a leader on the field last year? He didn't lead his team into sub zero temps in Green Bay and come away with a win. He didn't hit Tyree in the endzone or Boss for that 44 yard gain in the Super Bowl (with pin point accuracy I may add)? He didn't pump fake the crap out of they guy who was on Burress when he hit him in the endzone to win the Super Bowl? He didn't lead us on the field this year against the Panthers in the best game played all year to clinch the conference? lastly, eli didn't go 9-14 for 150+ yards in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl agaisnt the best team of our generation and win the MVP? </P>


Point is Eli is pretty good too. Ben is not clearly better. I think it is abetter debate then you give it credit for.</P>


PS: Eli has a stronger arm then Ben. </P>



Then why does he throw so many ducks?
</P>


Every quarterback throws ducks! Favre, McNabb, Ben, Rivers. You name a QB and I will bet my life they throw ducks. Eli didn't lead the league in pics this year. They were down substantially from last year. Peyton threw 6 in one game for crying out loud. The facts are that Eli is a quarterback in windiest stadium in the league. He fights more elements then Ben, Rivers, and certainly Peyton. He led us to a 12-4 record and we had a top 5 offense this year. You can not do that with a guy that all you Eli bashers claim Eli to be. He has his faults&amp; he is not perfect but he is a fighter, he is intelligent, and he gets better evey year. I don't think you can ask for much more. </P>

LuckOfTuck
02-02-2009, 11:37 AM
this is like comparing apples to oranges. They are both good quaterbacks. Ben did the job last night and got his second superbowl in 4 seasons. I do beleive eli will have another shot at the superbowl beofre his career is over. But overall ability eli is better. That is not a knock on big ben</p>


Tha main difference is that Ben is much more accurate and throws a much better ball in bad weather. Is Big Ben bettr than Eli? Clearly the answer is "Yes", and only the Giant homers would say otherwise. I am a huge Giant fan, but also a realist - Ben is definitely a better QB, as he is bigger, stronger and a much better Athlete. In addition, Ben is a leader on the field, something Eli still lacks.</p>


</p>


Eli wasn't a leader on the field last year? He didn't lead his team into sub zero temps in Green Bay and come away with a win. He didn't hit Tyree in the endzone or Boss for that 44 yard gain in the Super Bowl (with pin point accuracy I may add)? He didn't pump fake the crap out of they guy who was on Burress when he hit him in the endzone to win the Super Bowl? He didn't lead us on the field this year against the Panthers in the best game played all year to clinch the conference? lastly, eli didn't go 9-14 for 150+ yards in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl agaisnt the best team of our generation and win the MVP? </p>


Point is Eli is pretty good too. Ben is not clearly better. I think it is abetter debate then you give it credit for.</p>


PS: Eli has a stronger arm then Ben. </p>



Then why does he throw so many ducks?
</p>


Every quarterback throws ducks! Favre, McNabb, Ben, Rivers. You name a QB and I will bet my life they throw ducks. Eli didn't lead the league in pics this year. They were down substantially from last year. Peyton threw 6 in one game for crying out loud. The facts are that Eli is a quarterback in windiest stadium in the league. He fights more elements then Ben, Rivers, and certainly Peyton. He led us to a 12-4 record and we had a top 5 offense this year. You can not do that with a guy that all you Eli bashers claim Eli to be. He has his faults&amp; he is not perfect but he is a fighter, he is intelligent, and he gets better evey year. I don't think you can ask for much more. </p>
True but Eli always seems to throw too many.

BavaroLT86
02-02-2009, 11:38 AM
Two picks dropped by The Cards Seondary would have labbled Big ben a Super Bowl Chocker...</P>


Just a Thought.....</P>

NewYorkDave
02-02-2009, 11:45 AM
this is like comparing apples to oranges. They are both good quaterbacks. Ben did the job last night and got his second superbowl in 4 seasons. I do beleive eli will have another shot at the superbowl beofre his career is over. But overall ability eli is better. That is not a knock on big ben</P>


Tha main difference is that Ben is much more accurate and throws a much better ball in bad weather. Is Big Ben bettr than Eli? Clearly the answer is "Yes", and only the Giant homers would say otherwise. I am a huge Giant fan, but also a realist - Ben is definitely a better QB, as he is bigger, stronger and a much better Athlete. In addition, Ben is a leader on the field, something Eli still lacks.</P>


</P>


Eli wasn't a leader on the field last year? He didn't lead his team into sub zero temps in Green Bay and come away with a win. He didn't hit Tyree in the endzone or Boss for that 44 yard gain in the Super Bowl (with pin point accuracy I may add)? He didn't pump fake the crap out of they guy who was on Burress when he hit him in the endzone to win the Super Bowl? He didn't lead us on the field this year against the Panthers in the best game played all year to clinch the conference? lastly, eli didn't go 9-14 for 150+ yards in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl agaisnt the best team of our generation and win the MVP? </P>


Point is Eli is pretty good too. Ben is not clearly better. I think it is abetter debate then you give it credit for.</P>


PS: Eli has a stronger arm then Ben. </P>



Then why does he throw so many ducks?
</P>


Every quarterback throws ducks! Favre, McNabb, Ben, Rivers. You name a QB and I will bet my life they throw ducks. Eli didn't lead the league in pics this year. They were down substantially from last year. Peyton threw 6 in one game for crying out loud. The facts are that Eli is a quarterback in windiest stadium in the league. He fights more elements then Ben, Rivers, and certainly Peyton. He led us to a 12-4 record and we had a top 5 offense this year. You can not do that with a guy that all you Eli bashers claim Eli to be. He has his faults&amp; he is not perfect but he is a fighter, he is intelligent, and he gets better evey year. I don't think you can ask for much more. </P>



True but Eli always seems to throw too many.
</P>


You only think that because you watch the Giants exclusively. Sit back and watch Rivers or Ben. They do the same stuff. It is easy to get lost when you critique every single play by a guy. All you ever see from the others is their big screw ups and great plays. Its not like ESPN shows you the lames *** passes Ben threw all year that end up on the ground</P>

NewYorkDave
02-02-2009, 11:46 AM
Two picks dropped by The Cards Seondary would have labbled Big ben a Super Bowl Chocker...</P>


Just a Thought.....</P>


</P>


If not for an unbelievable play by Holmes in the endzone Ben may have been labled up there with the Scott Norwoods of the game. </P>

ManningBowl
02-02-2009, 11:58 AM
Two picks dropped by The Cards Seondary would have labbled Big ben a Super Bowl Chocker...</P>


Just a Thought.....</P>


</P>


If not for an unbelievable play by Holmes in the endzone Ben may have been labled up there with the Scott Norwoods of the game. </P>


</P>


DId you see the throw? There were 3 Cardinals DB back there and he hit Holmes on the Out Cut... You are the biggest Hater it's amazing... </P>

nycsportzfan
02-02-2009, 12:02 PM
It is a good debate but until Eli can brin home another won Big Ben will win it every time. Ben had a better team around him this year. Some of Eli's mainmates sort of let him down. </p>
sorry Eli had the #1 rushing attack, #3 defense and a very good Oline. this nonesense that pitts and sandaigo have better teams around there QB is pure bs and a slap in the face to the renest of our good team.
i agree, thats what makes me so mad at eli sometimes, when he is off, he's so bad that it does not even matter how many good players we have, he makes it virtually impossible.

RoanokeFan
02-02-2009, 12:05 PM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]


Wait for what? Just become a Steelers fan and your problems are solved.

NewYorkDave
02-02-2009, 12:11 PM
Two picks dropped by The Cards Seondary would have labbled Big ben a Super Bowl Chocker...</P>


Just a Thought.....</P>


</P>


If not for an unbelievable play by Holmes in the endzone Ben may have been labled up there with the Scott Norwoods of the game. </P>


</P>


DId you see the throw? There were 3 Cardinals DB back there and he hit Holmes on the Out Cut... You are the biggest Hater it's amazing... </P>


</P>


I am just saying the catch was better then the throw...sort of like Manning to Tyree. Ben did a good job. Holmes did a great job</P>

Gianthunter
02-02-2009, 12:11 PM
Two picks dropped by The Cards Seondary would have labbled Big ben a Super Bowl Chocker...</P>


Just a Thought.....</P>


</P>


If not for an unbelievable play by Holmes in the endzone Ben may have been labled up there with the Scott Norwoods of the game. </P>


</P>


DId you see the throw? There were 3 Cardinals DB back there and he hit Holmes on the Out Cut... You are the biggest Hater it's amazing... </P>And if Eli throws that pass. Holmes is making a "circus catch". Good to see your sticking to the keep jumping the fence agenda.

Toronto3
02-02-2009, 12:12 PM
Ben needed a 100 yard int run-back for a TD, the opposing team committing over yards in penalties, and the overall inferior level of competancy that is reflective of a 12-7 ( not an 18-0) team to win the Superbowl. Let's just remember that if someone from the Cardinals makes a tackle on Harrison which they should have (even Steve Young said was that play was inexcusable), we are looking at a Cardinal victory. </P>


</P>

Toronto3
02-02-2009, 12:14 PM
Two picks dropped by The Cards Seondary would have labbled Big ben a Super Bowl Chocker...</P>


Just a Thought.....</P>


</P>


If not for an unbelievable play by Holmes in the endzone Ben may have been labled up there with the Scott Norwoods of the game. </P>


</P>


DId you see the throw? There were 3 Cardinals DB back there and he hit Holmes on the Out Cut... You are the biggest Hater it's amazing... </P>


And if Eli throws that pass. Holmes is making a "circus catch". Good to see your sticking to the keep jumping the fence agenda.</P>


</P>


Exactly!!! Why is it so diffucult for fans to except that fact that Eli is a damn good QB? It is so obvious to anyone without an agenda. </P>

NewYorkDave
02-02-2009, 12:17 PM
It is a good debate but until Eli can brin home another won Big Ben will win it every time. Ben had a better team around him this year. Some of Eli's mainmates sort of let him down. </P>



sorry Eli had the #1 rushing attack, #3 defense and a very good Oline. this nonesense that pitts and sandaigo have better teams around there QB is pure bs and a slap in the face to the renest of our good team.
i agree, thats what makes me so mad at eli sometimes, when he is off, he's so bad that it does not even matter how many good players we have, he makes it virtually impossible.


</P>


Every QB has the right to have a bad game. Eli has had more good games then bad that is why we have made the playoffs every year since his inception into our offense. That is why we were 12-4 and conference champs. I should say that is part of the reason. Our defense and running game was great as well but if you want to blame Eli for everything that is fine I can't stop you. Know this though our #1 rushing attack was reduced to nothing more then 3.5 yds/carry in the last 5 games. As I have had cntinously said Eli does deserve some blame but not all of it. Personally I think a large part goes tot he coaching staff on offense for not making the RIGHT adjustments to the offense after Plaxico's demise. Eli is a good quarterback, good enough to get us there again. You are all looking for him to be mistake free all the time and that isn't realistic. </P>

GiantsInSB38
02-02-2009, 12:31 PM
Boy, some of you are so stubborn that you will simply make every excuse as to why Ben isn't good and every excuse as to why Eli should never take any blame.

Do you guys really think Eli could have made the throw Ben did to win it? Unless it was a Plax jump ball, no chance.
You guys said all week that Ben almost cost the Steelers the other super bowl - well he definitely played better than Eli did last year.
Give it up. Eli is our qb, fine. Ben is a better one.

Gianthunter
02-02-2009, 12:32 PM
Two picks dropped by The Cards Seondary would have labbled Big ben a Super Bowl Chocker...</P>


Just a Thought.....</P>


</P>


If not for an unbelievable play by Holmes in the endzone Ben may have been labled up there with the Scott Norwoods of the game. </P>


</P>


DId you see the throw? There were 3 Cardinals DB back there and he hit Holmes on the Out Cut... You are the biggest Hater it's amazing... </P>


And if Eli throws that pass. Holmes is making a "circus catch". Good to see your sticking to the keep jumping the fence agenda.</P>


</P>


Exactly!!! Why is it so diffucult for fans to except that fact that Eli is a damn good QB? It is so obvious to anyone without an agenda. </P>Eli's game winning drive ( which occuredat the same time in the game) was "luckey" Ben does it ( along with a very similar helmet catch) its pure football perfection.

ManningBowl
02-02-2009, 12:39 PM
Two picks dropped by The Cards Seondary would have labbled Big ben a Super Bowl Chocker...</P>


Just a Thought.....</P>


</P>


If not for an unbelievable play by Holmes in the endzone Ben may have been labled up there with the Scott Norwoods of the game. </P>


</P>


DId you see the throw? There were 3 Cardinals DB back there and he hit Holmes on the Out Cut... You are the biggest Hater it's amazing... </P>


And if Eli throws that pass. Holmes is making a "circus catch". Good to see your sticking to the keep jumping the fence agenda.</P>


When was the last time Eli ever made a throw like That? Amani can toe tap with the best of them but Eli never makes those throws.. You say "If" because it rarely happens and if it didi I would give Eli credit for finally throwing the football with some accuracy.</P>

NewYorkDave
02-02-2009, 12:39 PM
Boy, some of you are so stubborn that you will simply make every excuse as to why Ben isn't good and every excuse as to why Eli should never take any blame. Do you guys really think Eli could have made the throw Ben did to win it? Unless it was a Plax jump ball, no chance. You guys said all week that Ben almost cost the Steelers the other super bowl - well he definitely played better than Eli did last year. Give it up. Eli is our qb, fine. Ben is a better one.</P>


I for on never said ben wasn't good....I think this thread topic is a good debate actually. You can't say Ben is hands down better and vice versa. As for Eli taking no blame I don't say that either. He deserves some of it for this year but definitely not all of it or even most of it. There were many more outside variables to our demise this year then Eli's miscues against the Eagles. My opinion is I would rather have Eli just because he handles New York very well. He isn't scared to make a scary throw, and he has gotten better every year since he has been here. Ben is good too. it is a tough call but unlike you I am a real Giant fan and stick by my guys. It defintiely isn't a landslide victory on either side when it comes down to who is better</P>

CantBlameShockeyNow
02-02-2009, 12:42 PM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]
What do Joe montana and Eli manning have in common? Superbowl MVPs and only QBs to </P>


</P>


Add Warner to the 2 TDs in the 4th Quarter. </P>


Warner now has more TDs and yds passing in SB than Montana...in 3 games, not 4.</P>


Too bad he has had awful Ds.</P>

Toronto3
02-02-2009, 12:46 PM
Boy, some of you are so stubborn that you will simply make every excuse as to why Ben isn't good and every excuse as to why Eli should never take any blame. Do you guys really think Eli could have made the throw Ben did to win it? Unless it was a Plax jump ball, no chance. You guys said all week that Ben almost cost the Steelers the other super bowl - well he definitely played better than Eli did last year. Give it up. Eli is our qb, fine. Ben is a better one.</P>


</P>


This must be a joke. Are you going to compare the 2007 Pats defense to the 2008 Cardinals defense? If that is the case, let's just pull out how Eli beat up on Seattle and St. Louis and Arizona this year. Yes I know, he didn't do it in a Super Bowl but he sure as hell performed art-work in last year's Super Bowl against a team that was not trying to give the game away (to quote Steve Young from ESPN NFL Primetime last night). </P>

NewYorkDave
02-02-2009, 12:47 PM
Two picks dropped by The Cards Seondary would have labbled Big ben a Super Bowl Chocker...</P>


Just a Thought.....</P>


</P>


If not for an unbelievable play by Holmes in the endzone Ben may have been labled up there with the Scott Norwoods of the game. </P>


</P>


DId you see the throw? There were 3 Cardinals DB back there and he hit Holmes on the Out Cut... You are the biggest Hater it's amazing... </P>


And if Eli throws that pass. Holmes is making a "circus catch". Good to see your sticking to the keep jumping the fence agenda.</P>


When was the last time Eli ever made a throw like That? Amani can toe tap with the best of them but Eli never makes those throws.. You say "If" because it rarely happens and if it didi I would give Eli credit for finally throwing the football with some accuracy.</P>


</P>


How about the TD to Tyree in the 4th quarter of the SB? That was a damn good throw and in heavy traffic too. How about the throw to Boss on the 44 yrd scamper. That was pin point. Eli's pump fake fooled everyone on the winning catch to Burress. he can do it too.....you just have selective memory. All you see in your mind's eye is Eli throwing a duck against the Eagles. A very pessimitic outlook to say the least. Try to remember the good times. Like beating the Steelers and Cards this year or winning the conference or making the playoffs for the past 4 years....or winning the SB. Ringing any bells? just like life there will be more bad then good even for guys like Brady and Peyton but its the moments that define a player. Last night was a good moment for Ben. Last year was a good moment for Eli. There will be more from both and if you don't think so go buy a McNabb jersey and move to Philly cuz you are sounding like an Eagle fan</P>


</P>

ManningBowl
02-02-2009, 12:49 PM
Two picks dropped by The Cards Seondary would have labbled Big ben a Super Bowl Chocker...</P>


Just a Thought.....</P>


</P>


If not for an unbelievable play by Holmes in the endzone Ben may have been labled up there with the Scott Norwoods of the game. </P>


</P>


DId you see the throw? There were 3 Cardinals DB back there and he hit Holmes on the Out Cut... You are the biggest Hater it's amazing... </P>


And if Eli throws that pass. Holmes is making a "circus catch". Good to see your sticking to the keep jumping the fence agenda.</P>


</P>


Exactly!!! Why is it so diffucult for fans to except that fact that Eli is a damn good QB? It is so obvious to anyone without an agenda. </P>


Eli's game winning drive ( which occuredat the same time in the game) was "luckey" Ben does it ( along with a very similar helmet catch) its pure football perfection.</P>


WTF are you talking about Holmes didn't make a Helmet catch.. It was a ball thrown with great accuracy in the back of the end zone with Holmes on a Out-cut, There were 3 Cards Db's back there 3... the ball was perfect. Eli's was a blind heave that Tyree just leaped up and caught on his helmet.... It was a great play however and I won't take any credit away from Eli because he made a great play and was brilliant in that 5 game stretch last season.. My problem is the other 70+ games where hehas been very average</P>

gumby742
02-02-2009, 12:51 PM
Two picks dropped by The Cards Seondary would have labbled Big ben a Super Bowl Chocker...</P>


Just a Thought.....</P>


</P>


If not for an unbelievable play by Holmes in the endzone Ben may have been labled up there with the Scott Norwoods of the game. </P>


</P>


DId you see the throw? There were 3 Cardinals DB back there and he hit Holmes on the Out Cut... You are the biggest Hater it's amazing... </P>


And if Eli throws that pass. Holmes is making a "circus catch". Good to see your sticking to the keep jumping the fence agenda.</P>


</P>


Exactly!!! Why is it so diffucult for fans to except that fact that Eli is a damn good QB? It is so obvious to anyone without an agenda. </P>


Eli's game winning drive ( which occuredat the same time in the game) was "luckey" Ben does it ( along with a very similar helmet catch) its pure football perfection.</P>


Lol .. are you going to compare the 2 throws? Neither QB had any business throwing it, especially Ben throwing it into triple coverage. That was just stupid. However, an Eli throw would have beena high trajectory quacking duck that would have turned into a jump ball between the WR and 3 defenders. Instead, Ben threw a bullet over their heads and only to a place where Holmes could catch it.</P>


VERY big difference.</P>

Gianthunter
02-02-2009, 12:53 PM
Two picks dropped by The Cards Seondary would have labbled Big ben a Super Bowl Chocker...</P>


Just a Thought.....</P>


</P>


If not for an unbelievable play by Holmes in the endzone Ben may have been labled up there with the Scott Norwoods of the game. </P>


</P>


DId you see the throw? There were 3 Cardinals DB back there and he hit Holmes on the Out Cut... You are the biggest Hater it's amazing... </P>


And if Eli throws that pass. Holmes is making a "circus catch". Good to see your sticking to the keep jumping the fence agenda.</P>


When was the last time Eli ever made a throw like That? Amani can toe tap with the best of them but Eli never makes those throws.. You say "If" because it rarely happens and if it didi I would give Eli credit for finally throwing the football with some accuracy.</P>No your fencejumpingdelusionist myopic viewpoint is so focused at hating right now. That you can't admit the truth. Plax,Toomer,Boss and Smith have all made those kind of catchs. Others see it along with the bad but you choose not to. And choosing to dietify other QBs of teams you do not follow shows another myopic viewpoint that is not supported by true fans of those teams.

Toronto3
02-02-2009, 12:56 PM
Two picks dropped by The Cards Seondary would have labbled Big ben a Super Bowl Chocker...</P>


Just a Thought.....</P>


</P>


If not for an unbelievable play by Holmes in the endzone Ben may have been labled up there with the Scott Norwoods of the game. </P>


</P>


DId you see the throw? There were 3 Cardinals DB back there and he hit Holmes on the Out Cut... You are the biggest Hater it's amazing... </P>


And if Eli throws that pass. Holmes is making a "circus catch". Good to see your sticking to the keep jumping the fence agenda.</P>


When was the last time Eli ever made a throw like That? Amani can toe tap with the best of them but Eli never makes those throws.. You say "If" because it rarely happens and if it didi I would give Eli credit for finally throwing the football with some accuracy.</P>


No your fencejumpingdelusionist myopic viewpoint is so focused at hating right now. That you can't admit the truth. Plax,Toomer,Boss and Smith have all made those kind of catchs. Others see it along with the bad but you choose not to. And choosing to dietify other QBs of teams you do not follow shows another myopic viewpoint that is not supported by true fans of those teams.</P>


</P>


Gianthunter,</P>


Amen to you your post! You hit the nail on the head. </P>

Gianthunter
02-02-2009, 12:58 PM
Two picks dropped by The Cards Seondary would have labbled Big ben a Super Bowl Chocker...</P>


Just a Thought.....</P>


</P>


If not for an unbelievable play by Holmes in the endzone Ben may have been labled up there with the Scott Norwoods of the game. </P>


</P>


DId you see the throw? There were 3 Cardinals DB back there and he hit Holmes on the Out Cut... You are the biggest Hater it's amazing... </P>


And if Eli throws that pass. Holmes is making a "circus catch". Good to see your sticking to the keep jumping the fence agenda.</P>


</P>


Exactly!!! Why is it so diffucult for fans to except that fact that Eli is a damn good QB? It is so obvious to anyone without an agenda. </P>


Eli's game winning drive ( which occuredat the same time in the game) was "luckey" Ben does it ( along with a very similar helmet catch) its pure football perfection.</P>


Lol .. are you going to compare the 2 throws? Neither QB had any business throwing it, especially Ben throwing it into triple coverage. That was just stupid. However, an Eli throw would have beena high trajectory quacking duck that would have turned into a jump ball between the WR and 3 defenders. Instead, Ben threw a bullet over their heads and only to a place where Holmes could catch it.</P>


VERY big difference.</P>Thanks for supporting my point. It nice to beacknowledged and have your statement supported.

NewYorkDave
02-02-2009, 01:01 PM
Two picks dropped by The Cards Seondary would have labbled Big ben a Super Bowl Chocker...</P>


Just a Thought.....</P>


</P>


If not for an unbelievable play by Holmes in the endzone Ben may have been labled up there with the Scott Norwoods of the game. </P>


</P>


DId you see the throw? There were 3 Cardinals DB back there and he hit Holmes on the Out Cut... You are the biggest Hater it's amazing... </P>


And if Eli throws that pass. Holmes is making a "circus catch". Good to see your sticking to the keep jumping the fence agenda.</P>


When was the last time Eli ever made a throw like That? Amani can toe tap with the best of them but Eli never makes those throws.. You say "If" because it rarely happens and if it didi I would give Eli credit for finally throwing the football with some accuracy.</P>


No your fencejumpingdelusionist myopic viewpoint is so focused at hating right now. That you can't admit the truth. Plax,Toomer,Boss and Smith have all made those kind of catchs. Others see it along with the bad but you choose not to. And choosing to dietify other QBs of teams you do not follow shows another myopic viewpoint that is not supported by true fans of those teams.</P>


</P>


Gianthunter,</P>


Amen to you your post! You hit the nail on the head. </P>


</P>


I agree and his post was very well worded. Lots of good words!</P>


Facts are is all these so called Giants fans watch Eli and see every mistake. They most likely only saw Ben twice this year. Once against us and once last night. They only see his major mistakes and major triumphs on Sports Center. Watch him week in and week out and you see that he too makes a lot of mistakes jsut like Eli, Peyton, Favre and every other quarterback that play this game. Eli and Ben have made throws when they have needed too as well. Why do Giant fans forget Eli's????</P>

JerseyGiant21
02-02-2009, 01:01 PM
Two picks dropped by The Cards Seondary would have labbled Big ben a Super Bowl Chocker...</p>


Just a Thought.....</p>


</p>


If not for an unbelievable play by Holmes in the endzone Ben may have been labled up there with the Scott Norwoods of the game. </p>


</p>


DId you see the throw? There were 3 Cardinals DB back there and he hit Holmes on the Out Cut... You are the biggest Hater it's amazing... </p>


And if Eli throws that pass. Holmes is making a "circus catch". Good to see your sticking to the keep jumping the fence agenda.</p>


</p>


Exactly!!! Why is it so diffucult for fans to except that fact that Eli is a damn good QB? It is so obvious to anyone without an agenda. </p>


Eli's game winning drive ( which occuredat the same time in the game) was "luckey" Ben does it ( along with a very similar helmet catch) its pure football perfection.</p>


Lol .. are you going to compare the 2 throws? Neither QB had any business throwing it, especially Ben throwing it into triple coverage. That was just stupid. However, an Eli throw would have beena high trajectory quacking duck that would have turned into a jump ball between the WR and 3 defenders. Instead, Ben threw a bullet over their heads and only to a place where Holmes could catch it.</p>


VERY big difference.</p>Thanks for supporting my point. It nice to beacknowledged and have your statement supported.

LMAO......

ManningBowl
02-02-2009, 01:04 PM
Two picks dropped by The Cards Seondary would have labbled Big ben a Super Bowl Chocker...</P>


Just a Thought.....</P>


</P>


If not for an unbelievable play by Holmes in the endzone Ben may have been labled up there with the Scott Norwoods of the game. </P>


</P>


DId you see the throw? There were 3 Cardinals DB back there and he hit Holmes on the Out Cut... You are the biggest Hater it's amazing... </P>


And if Eli throws that pass. Holmes is making a "circus catch". Good to see your sticking to the keep jumping the fence agenda.</P>


When was the last time Eli ever made a throw like That? Amani can toe tap with the best of them but Eli never makes those throws.. You say "If" because it rarely happens and if it didi I would give Eli credit for finally throwing the football with some accuracy.</P>


No your fencejumpingdelusionist myopic viewpoint is so focused at hating right now. That you can't admit the truth. Plax,Toomer,Boss and Smith have all made those kind of catchs. Others see it along with the bad but you choose not to. And choosing to dietify other QBs of teams you do not follow shows another myopic viewpoint that is not supported by true fans of those teams.</P>


What? Your losing me here..... When was the last time Eli thredded a ball into coverage like that? Between 3 DB's?Maybe a handful of times his entire career.. </P>

sharick88
02-02-2009, 01:07 PM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]
</P>


Threads like this make me wonder why the **** I even come on here to talk to people sometimes. The majority of people on here are actually Giants fans you can talk to. I am the only Giants fan I know in my whole area, so I come here to talk to some that are actually Giants fans. Instead, my hopes are dashed when idiot posts like this come out. Anyways, I can care less if I get suspended or not. Go **** yourself and someone should zap you everytime you attempt to post on these boards. If you love **** burger so much, jump off of our bandwagon and go on theirs. Now I'm done!!</P>

JerseyGiant21
02-02-2009, 01:09 PM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]
</p>


Threads like this make me wonder why the **** I even come on here to talk to people sometimes. The majority of people on here are actually Giants fans you can talk to. I am the only Giants fan I know in my whole area, so I come here to talk to some that are actually Giants fans. Instead, my hopes are dashed when idiot posts like this come out. Anyways, I can care less if I get suspended or not. Go **** yourself and someone should zap you everytime you attempt to post on these boards. If you love **** burger so much, jump off of our bandwagon and go on theirs. Now I'm done!!</p>

lol sharick....

gumby742
02-02-2009, 01:10 PM
Two picks dropped by The Cards Seondary would have labbled Big ben a Super Bowl Chocker...</P>


Just a Thought.....</P>


</P>


If not for an unbelievable play by Holmes in the endzone Ben may have been labled up there with the Scott Norwoods of the game. </P>


</P>


DId you see the throw? There were 3 Cardinals DB back there and he hit Holmes on the Out Cut... You are the biggest Hater it's amazing... </P>


And if Eli throws that pass. Holmes is making a "circus catch". Good to see your sticking to the keep jumping the fence agenda.</P>


</P>


Exactly!!! Why is it so diffucult for fans to except that fact that Eli is a damn good QB? It is so obvious to anyone without an agenda. </P>


Eli's game winning drive ( which occuredat the same time in the game) was "luckey" Ben does it ( along with a very similar helmet catch) its pure football perfection.</P>


Lol .. are you going to compare the 2 throws? Neither QB had any business throwing it, especially Ben throwing it into triple coverage. That was just stupid. However, an Eli throw would have beena high trajectory quacking duck that would have turned into a jump ball between the WR and 3 defenders. Instead, Ben threw a bullet over their heads and only to a place where Holmes could catch it.</P>


VERY big difference.</P>


Thanks for supporting my point. It nice to beacknowledged and have your statement supported.</P>


Supporting your point? Given the same throw, Eli throws a duck and Ben throws a bullet. This isn't some sort of analogy or perspective genius. I said, Eli = hierarching duck for a jump ball. Ben = bullet OVER the defenders.</P>


2 different passes. 2 different behaviors. Tell you me you're smart enough to figure that out. Good lord.</P>

Toronto3
02-02-2009, 01:10 PM
Two picks dropped by The Cards Seondary would have labbled Big ben a Super Bowl Chocker...</P>


Just a Thought.....</P>


</P>


If not for an unbelievable play by Holmes in the endzone Ben may have been labled up there with the Scott Norwoods of the game. </P>


</P>


DId you see the throw? There were 3 Cardinals DB back there and he hit Holmes on the Out Cut... You are the biggest Hater it's amazing... </P>


And if Eli throws that pass. Holmes is making a "circus catch". Good to see your sticking to the keep jumping the fence agenda.</P>


When was the last time Eli ever made a throw like That? Amani can toe tap with the best of them but Eli never makes those throws.. You say "If" because it rarely happens and if it didi I would give Eli credit for finally throwing the football with some accuracy.</P>


No your fencejumpingdelusionist myopic viewpoint is so focused at hating right now. That you can't admit the truth. Plax,Toomer,Boss and Smith have all made those kind of catchs. Others see it along with the bad but you choose not to. And choosing to dietify other QBs of teams you do not follow shows another myopic viewpoint that is not supported by true fans of those teams.</P>


</P>


Gianthunter,</P>


Amen to you your post! You hit the nail on the head. </P>


</P>


I agree and his post was very well worded. Lots of good words!</P>


Facts are is all these so called Giants fans watch Eli and see every mistake. They most likely only saw Ben twice this year. Once against us and once last night. They only see his major mistakes and major triumphs on Sports Center. Watch him week in and week out and you see that he too makes a lot of mistakes jsut like Eli, Peyton, Favre and every other quarterback that play this game. Eli and Ben have made throws when they have needed too as well. Why do Giant fans forget Eli's????</P>


</P>


</P>


Especially when Elimade great plays in aSuper Bowl against a team that had a far better defense.</P>

TonyM777
02-02-2009, 01:10 PM
Look I bleed blue as I grew up in the bronx. The yankees and the giants both played in Yankee stadium where my dad worked part time. Look I like Eli but the fact of it the reason Ben is a better QB is that he is much stronger physically and can make nothing out of something. Also he can play in all kinds of weather where Eli struggles in wind condition weather. Just put it this way the Giants this year was just as good as the Steelers if not better and we weren't there to defend our title. Much of that had to do with Eli not having a good game in that familiar Giants stadium weather.

BlueBlitzer
02-02-2009, 01:11 PM
Two picks dropped by The Cards Seondary would have labbled Big ben a Super Bowl Chocker...</P>


Just a Thought.....</P>


</P>


If not for an unbelievable play by Holmes in the endzone Ben may have been labled up there with the Scott Norwoods of the game. </P>


</P>


DId you see the throw? There were 3 Cardinals DB back there and he hit Holmes on the Out Cut... You are the biggest Hater it's amazing... </P>


And if Eli throws that pass. Holmes is making a "circus catch". Good to see your sticking to the keep jumping the fence agenda.</P>


</P>


Exactly!!! Why is it so diffucult for fans to except that fact that Eli is a damn good QB? It is so obvious to anyone without an agenda. </P>


Eli's game winning drive ( which occuredat the same time in the game) was "luckey" Ben does it ( along with a very similar helmet catch) its pure football perfection.</P>


Lol .. are you going to compare the 2 throws? Neither QB had any business throwing it, especially Ben throwing it into triple coverage. That was just stupid. However, an Eli throw would have beena high trajectory quacking duck that would have turned into a jump ball between the WR and 3 defenders. Instead, Ben threw a bullet over their heads and only to a place where Holmes could catch it.</P>


VERY big difference.</P><FONT size=4> They were playing the Cardinals HEEEEELLLOOOOOO Get a clue get a grip. The Steelers should have had this thing wrapped up in the 1st half. And if Benny Boy is the greatest thing since Peanut-Butter slamed into Jelly, Why is He never MVP. because He isn't one thats why. The Giants never get a " Tune-Up Game when we go Super. It's always Broncos, Bills, Ravens, Perfect Patriots, and God knows who else next year. BennyPoo gets to play the Tweety Birds : Seahawks, Cardinals.</FONT>

Toronto3
02-02-2009, 01:14 PM
Two picks dropped by The Cards Seondary would have labbled Big ben a Super Bowl Chocker...</P>


Just a Thought.....</P>


</P>


If not for an unbelievable play by Holmes in the endzone Ben may have been labled up there with the Scott Norwoods of the game. </P>


</P>


DId you see the throw? There were 3 Cardinals DB back there and he hit Holmes on the Out Cut... You are the biggest Hater it's amazing... </P>


And if Eli throws that pass. Holmes is making a "circus catch". Good to see your sticking to the keep jumping the fence agenda.</P>


</P>


Exactly!!! Why is it so diffucult for fans to except that fact that Eli is a damn good QB? It is so obvious to anyone without an agenda. </P>


Eli's game winning drive ( which occuredat the same time in the game) was "luckey" Ben does it ( along with a very similar helmet catch) its pure football perfection.</P>


Lol .. are you going to compare the 2 throws? Neither QB had any business throwing it, especially Ben throwing it into triple coverage. That was just stupid. However, an Eli throw would have beena high trajectory quacking duck that would have turned into a jump ball between the WR and 3 defenders. Instead, Ben threw a bullet over their heads and only to a place where Holmes could catch it.</P>


VERY big difference.</P>


<FONT size=4> They were playing the Cardinals HEEEEELLLOOOOOO Get a clue get a grip. The Steelers should have had this thing wrapped up in the 1st half. And if Benny Boy is the greatest thing since Peanut-Butter slamed into Jelly, Why is He never MVP. because He isn't one thats why. The Giants never get a " Tune-Up Game when we go Super. It's always Broncos, Bills, Ravens, Perfect Patriots, and God knows who else next year. BennyPoo gets to play the Tweety Birds : Seahawks, Cardinals.</FONT></P>


</P>


I've been saying this the whole morning. My thoughts exactly! </P>

Harooni
02-02-2009, 01:14 PM
<font size="4"> The Giants never get a " Tune-Up Game when we go Super. It's always Broncos, Bills, Ravens, Perfect Patriots, and God knows who else next year. BennyPoo gets to play the Tweety Birds : Seahawks, Cardinals.</font>
probably because he plays in the AFC you bobo. lmao
he has beaten those teams in the playoffs a few times. and at home no less.

gumby742
02-02-2009, 01:17 PM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]
</P>


Threads like this make me wonder why the **** I even come on here to talk to people sometimes. The majority of people on here are actually Giants fans you can talk to. I am the only Giants fan I know in my whole area, so I come here to talk to some that are actually Giants fans. Instead, my hopes are dashed when idiot posts like this come out. Anyways, I can care less if I get suspended or not. Go **** yourself and someone should zap you everytime you attempt to post on these boards. If you love **** burger so much, jump off of our bandwagon and go on theirs. Now I'm done!!</P>


</P>


If you think Ben is better then Eli you're not a Giants fan? If you question your QB you're not a Giants fan? You think people want to question our QBs play? </P>


And I guess when other teams post about "stupid giant fans", I guess you would fall into that category. Kids these days.</P>

JerseyGiant21
02-02-2009, 01:17 PM
Two picks dropped by The Cards Seondary would have labbled Big ben a Super Bowl Chocker...</p>


Just a Thought.....</p>


</p>


If not for an unbelievable play by Holmes in the endzone Ben may have been labled up there with the Scott Norwoods of the game. </p>


</p>


DId you see the throw? There were 3 Cardinals DB back there and he hit Holmes on the Out Cut... You are the biggest Hater it's amazing... </p>


And if Eli throws that pass. Holmes is making a "circus catch". Good to see your sticking to the keep jumping the fence agenda.</p>


</p>


Exactly!!! Why is it so diffucult for fans to except that fact that Eli is a damn good QB? It is so obvious to anyone without an agenda. </p>


Eli's game winning drive ( which occuredat the same time in the game) was "luckey" Ben does it ( along with a very similar helmet catch) its pure football perfection.</p>


Lol .. are you going to compare the 2 throws? Neither QB had any business throwing it, especially Ben throwing it into triple coverage. That was just stupid. However, an Eli throw would have beena high trajectory quacking duck that would have turned into a jump ball between the WR and 3 defenders. Instead, Ben threw a bullet over their heads and only to a place where Holmes could catch it.</p>


VERY big difference.</p>


Thanks for supporting my point. It nice to beacknowledged and have your statement supported.</p>


Supporting your point? Given the same throw, Eli throws a duck and Ben throws a bullet. This isn't some sort of analogy or perspective genius. I said, Eli = hierarching duck for a jump ball. Ben = bullet OVER the defenders.</p>


2 different passes. 2 different behaviors. Tell you me you're smart enough to figure that out. Good lord.</p>

and yet you continue to prove his point....lol

Gianthunter
02-02-2009, 01:20 PM
Two picks dropped by The Cards Seondary would have labbled Big ben a Super Bowl Chocker...</P>


Just a Thought.....</P>


</P>


If not for an unbelievable play by Holmes in the endzone Ben may have been labled up there with the Scott Norwoods of the game. </P>


</P>


DId you see the throw? There were 3 Cardinals DB back there and he hit Holmes on the Out Cut... You are the biggest Hater it's amazing... </P>


And if Eli throws that pass. Holmes is making a "circus catch". Good to see your sticking to the keep jumping the fence agenda.</P>


When was the last time Eli ever made a throw like That? Amani can toe tap with the best of them but Eli never makes those throws.. You say "If" because it rarely happens and if it didi I would give Eli credit for finally throwing the football with some accuracy.</P>


No your fencejumpingdelusionist myopic viewpoint is so focused at hating right now. That you can't admit the truth. Plax,Toomer,Boss and Smith have all made those kind of catchs. Others see it along with the bad but you choose not to. And choosing to dietify other QBs of teams you do not follow shows another myopic viewpoint that is not supported by true fans of those teams.</P>


What? Your losing me here..... When was the last time Eli thredded a ball into coverage like that? Between 3 DB's?Maybe a handful of times his entire career.. </P>See like I wrote myopthy. What Steelers Fans saw. Was the first pass as a high throw off the mark. Someone muttered something likehere he goes again or something to that effect. And the second pass as high one that was brought down by a very good reciever who just managed to get his toes in. They also noted the odd fact that three defenders where that far off on the coverage. So about Bens play I side with the experts Steeler Fans. And not a myopic fencejumper with a very strange obbsession with other teams QBs. Oh and they also praised Ben for is good plays going down the stretch. But they also focused on his one interception and the one almost one. So again I have to go with their honsety and candor.

Gianthunter
02-02-2009, 01:21 PM
Two picks dropped by The Cards Seondary would have labbled Big ben a Super Bowl Chocker...</P>


Just a Thought.....</P>


</P>


If not for an unbelievable play by Holmes in the endzone Ben may have been labled up there with the Scott Norwoods of the game. </P>


</P>


DId you see the throw? There were 3 Cardinals DB back there and he hit Holmes on the Out Cut... You are the biggest Hater it's amazing... </P>


And if Eli throws that pass. Holmes is making a "circus catch". Good to see your sticking to the keep jumping the fence agenda.</P>


</P>


Exactly!!! Why is it so diffucult for fans to except that fact that Eli is a damn good QB? It is so obvious to anyone without an agenda. </P>


Eli's game winning drive ( which occuredat the same time in the game) was "luckey" Ben does it ( along with a very similar helmet catch) its pure football perfection.</P>


Lol .. are you going to compare the 2 throws? Neither QB had any business throwing it, especially Ben throwing it into triple coverage. That was just stupid. However, an Eli throw would have beena high trajectory quacking duck that would have turned into a jump ball between the WR and 3 defenders. Instead, Ben threw a bullet over their heads and only to a place where Holmes could catch it.</P>


VERY big difference.</P>


Thanks for supporting my point. It nice to beacknowledged and have your statement supported.</P>


Supporting your point? Given the same throw, Eli throws a duck and Ben throws a bullet. This isn't some sort of analogy or perspective genius. I said, Eli = hierarching duck for a jump ball. Ben = bullet OVER the defenders.</P>


2 different passes. 2 different behaviors. Tell you me you're smart enough to figure that out. Good lord.</P>

and yet you continue to prove his point....lol

[*-)][8-)]

gumby742
02-02-2009, 01:23 PM
Two picks dropped by The Cards Seondary would have labbled Big ben a Super Bowl Chocker...</P>


Just a Thought.....</P>


</P>


If not for an unbelievable play by Holmes in the endzone Ben may have been labled up there with the Scott Norwoods of the game. </P>


</P>


DId you see the throw? There were 3 Cardinals DB back there and he hit Holmes on the Out Cut... You are the biggest Hater it's amazing... </P>


And if Eli throws that pass. Holmes is making a "circus catch". Good to see your sticking to the keep jumping the fence agenda.</P>


</P>


Exactly!!! Why is it so diffucult for fans to except that fact that Eli is a damn good QB? It is so obvious to anyone without an agenda. </P>


Eli's game winning drive ( which occuredat the same time in the game) was "luckey" Ben does it ( along with a very similar helmet catch) its pure football perfection.</P>


Lol .. are you going to compare the 2 throws? Neither QB had any business throwing it, especially Ben throwing it into triple coverage. That was just stupid. However, an Eli throw would have beena high trajectory quacking duck that would have turned into a jump ball between the WR and 3 defenders. Instead, Ben threw a bullet over their heads and only to a place where Holmes could catch it.</P>


VERY big difference.</P>


Thanks for supporting my point. It nice to beacknowledged and have your statement supported.</P>


Supporting your point? Given the same throw, Eli throws a duck and Ben throws a bullet. This isn't some sort of analogy or perspective genius. I said, Eli = hierarching duck for a jump ball. Ben = bullet OVER the defenders.</P>


2 different passes. 2 different behaviors. Tell you me you're smart enough to figure that out. Good lord.</P>




and yet you continue to prove his point....lol

</P>


lol. I'm gonna play nice. I took it a step too far a few times already in the past.</P>

sharick88
02-02-2009, 01:25 PM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]
</P>


Threads like this make me wonder why the **** I even come on here to talk to people sometimes. The majority of people on here are actually Giants fans you can talk to. I am the only Giants fan I know in my whole area, so I come here to talk to some that are actually Giants fans. Instead, my hopes are dashed when idiot posts like this come out. Anyways, I can care less if I get suspended or not. Go **** yourself and someone should zap you everytime you attempt to post on these boards. If you love **** burger so much, jump off of our bandwagon and go on theirs. Now I'm done!!</P>


</P>


If you think Ben is better then Eli you're not a Giants fan? If you question your QB you're not a Giants fan? You think people want to question our QBs play? </P>


And I guess when other teams post about "stupid giant fans", I guess you would fall into that category. Kids these days.</P>


</P>


It's not that numbnuts. It's the negativity that pisses me off. If you feel that way about **** burger, fine. But why tell a bunch of Giants fans that stupid **** huh? Why go way out of your way to prove a point that is totally irrelevant to real Giants fans. I can understandif people wantquestion our QB or any other player that we have at times. But to do it over and over and over and over and over and over and over again is simply a waste of time. I'm just tired of filtering through all the negativity just to find something good and valid said. IMO, this thread is a flat out stupid thing to suggest to a Giants fan.</P>

JerseyGiant21
02-02-2009, 01:25 PM
lol. I'm gonna play nice. I took it a step too far a few times already in the past.</p>

oh get down and dirty if you want......
Bring it out......I need the giggles...[;)]

TonyM777
02-02-2009, 01:26 PM
So because I am Giant fan I have to agree on something that I believe is not true. So what you saying is that Phil Simms who I have great respect for was better than Joe Montana or Y.A title was better than Johnny Unitas just because I am a Giant fan. Am I talking to a child here!

NewYorkDave
02-02-2009, 01:26 PM
Two picks dropped by The Cards Seondary would have labbled Big ben a Super Bowl Chocker...</P>


Just a Thought.....</P>


</P>


If not for an unbelievable play by Holmes in the endzone Ben may have been labled up there with the Scott Norwoods of the game. </P>


</P>


DId you see the throw? There were 3 Cardinals DB back there and he hit Holmes on the Out Cut... You are the biggest Hater it's amazing... </P>


And if Eli throws that pass. Holmes is making a "circus catch". Good to see your sticking to the keep jumping the fence agenda.</P>


When was the last time Eli ever made a throw like That? Amani can toe tap with the best of them but Eli never makes those throws.. You say "If" because it rarely happens and if it didi I would give Eli credit for finally throwing the football with some accuracy.</P>


No your fencejumpingdelusionist myopic viewpoint is so focused at hating right now. That you can't admit the truth. Plax,Toomer,Boss and Smith have all made those kind of catchs. Others see it along with the bad but you choose not to. And choosing to dietify other QBs of teams you do not follow shows another myopic viewpoint that is not supported by true fans of those teams.</P>


What? Your losing me here..... <FONT size=4>When was the last time Eli thredded a ball into coverage like that?</FONT> Between 3 DB's?Maybe a handful of times his entire career.. </P>


</P>


Last year in the Super Bowl he hit Tyree in double coverage over the middle for the go ahead score early int he 4th quarter. An inch to the left or right and it is a pic. How about the pass to Hixon against the Eaglesint he playoffs. Or the countless times he hit Toomer on an over the shoulder grab putting it over the defenders in only a place where Amani could grab it. Eli does it to. Actually Eli does it more then Ben. Ben is a better scrambler though....goes back to each guy does different things very well. This is a better debte then some people give it credit for. Its not like comparing Montana to Cunningham here. You can go either way. me? I take Eli all day because I love his style. Cool calm and collected at all times...just like me</P>

mibb
02-02-2009, 01:29 PM
Nothing to do with yesterdays game but I have always felt Ben was better the Rivers and Manning.</P>


</P>

sharick88
02-02-2009, 01:30 PM
So because I am Giant fan I have to agree on something that I believe is not true. So what you saying is that Phil Simms who I have great respect for was better than Joe Montana or Y.A title was better than Johnny Unitas just because I am a Giant fan. Am I talking to a child here!</P>


No one is saying anything like that. I just think that people on here are negative on purpose. Of course Eli Manning isn't the best QB in the NFL or in the top 5. But people say dumb **** on here on purpose regardless</P>

nycsportzfan
02-02-2009, 01:32 PM
It is a good debate but until Eli can brin home another won Big Ben will win it every time. Ben had a better team around him this year. Some of Eli's mainmates sort of let him down. </p>



sorry Eli had the #1 rushing attack, #3 defense and a very good Oline. this nonesense that pitts and sandaigo have better teams around there QB is pure bs and a slap in the face to the rest of our good team.
</p>


We did have a great team but obviously it wasn't good enough. Our offense let the abscense of one man dictate what we did. The Steelers offense was much worse then ours but never let the play of their offensive line and the injury to Hines Ward slow them down. Not to mention the lack luster running game led. This was a team game and they got the job done as a collective whole. We did not. And Eli's mates DID let him down. Pierce is fat and out of shape and he proclaims himself as the leader of our defense. Plus he is out at night clubs drinking three days before a game. I can pretty much bet my life that Harrison and Polamalu haven't seen the inside of a night club since last off season. Our team is defintiely more talented and has the tools but we need to refocus on football. </p>


And I do not think it is a slap in the face to say the Super Bowl champs had a better all round team....and I said nothing at all about San Diego....they suck. I hate Rivers and Tomlinson has no heart.....oh yeah and Merriman is a cheatin steriod using punk.</p>



and Eli did not let them down vs the egals?
</p>


Who stepped up for Eli? Dropped passes and missed opportunities lost us that game. Not Eli.</p>


whoa, did you watch game??? Eli was key factor from play one missing steve smith streaking to end of game.
</p>


So Eli has to be perfect to get your respect? How about dumb calls by the coaching staff. Everyone inthe world knew Eli was going for the QB sneak on 4th and one. How about telgraphing every run by Jacobs and Ward? How about not using Bradshaw one goddamn time. The coaches got away from what we did best and put their hopes in guys like Hixon to get separation and make plays. Sure Eli made a couple of bad throws but the weather was terrible. Why did we not defer the ball and take the wind? That gave away field position for the rest of the game. Eli was definitely not perfect but the coaching staff did not put him in a good position to win that game. We put all our hopes into Hixon being phenomenal and he wasn't. That and Smith and Toomer were no where to be found. No one breaks away fromt he route whent he coverage is good. </p>


I am not saying Eli doesn't deservesome blame but too many people want to put it all on him and that is not accurate at all</p>not buying it, play calling was suspect, but lets not forget we are talking about eli possibly getting 120mill, and we should not have to gameplan away from throwing in wind because our possibly 120mill dollar QB can't throw in wind, like I said, all other crappy throws in that game aside, on first lousy one to smith could have been possibly a momentum TD or at least 1st and goal, eli stunk it up all game long, and i don't want to hear it's windy, who cares? Why was donovan whipping it in the so called wind all 2nd half?? And hixon did get open and was badly missed by eli on another play that would have been big. How many times did he throw behind boss? Not to mention how goofy he looked on 4th and 1 qb sneak... What gives there? They actually talked about that on n.f.l network couple days later, saying how elementrey it should have been to dive between center and guard, and actually showed ben do it the right way, Eli bent over about 6inches and went right in to oharas back..I blame most of that game on eli

bandwgn86
02-02-2009, 01:36 PM
Two picks dropped by The Cards Seondary would have labbled Big ben a Super Bowl Chocker...</P>


Just a Thought.....</P>


</P>


If not for an unbelievable play by Holmes in the endzone Ben may have been labled up there with the Scott Norwoods of the game. </P>


</P>


DId you see the throw? There were 3 Cardinals DB back there and he hit Holmes on the Out Cut... You are the biggest Hater it's amazing... </P>


And if Eli throws that pass. Holmes is making a "circus catch". Good to see your sticking to the keep jumping the fence agenda.</P>


</P>


Exactly!!! Why is it so diffucult for fans to except that fact that Eli is a damn good QB? It is so obvious to anyone without an agenda. </P>


Eli's game winning drive ( which occuredat the same time in the game) was "luckey" Ben does it ( along with a very similar helmet catch) its pure football perfection.</P>


heh GH way to fight the good fight..man i hate these threads.. it is strange how the 2 drives even get compared.. if it wasn't for Holmes running for 40 yards after the catchodds are we'dbe looking at Cardinals as champs..Eli didn't exactly get that kind of help on his final drive.. some of you people on here should go back and watch last years SB just too see what kind of passes Eli did throw... </P>

gumby742
02-02-2009, 01:38 PM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]
</P>


Threads like this make me wonder why the **** I even come on here to talk to people sometimes. The majority of people on here are actually Giants fans you can talk to. I am the only Giants fan I know in my whole area, so I come here to talk to some that are actually Giants fans. Instead, my hopes are dashed when idiot posts like this come out. Anyways, I can care less if I get suspended or not. Go **** yourself and someone should zap you everytime you attempt to post on these boards. If you love **** burger so much, jump off of our bandwagon and go on theirs. Now I'm done!!</P>


</P>


If you think Ben is better then Eli you're not a Giants fan? If you question your QB you're not a Giants fan? You think people want to question our QBs play? </P>


And I guess when other teams post about "stupid giant fans", I guess you would fall into that category. Kids these days.</P>


</P>


It's not that numbnuts. It's the negativity that pisses me off. If you feel that way about **** burger, fine. But why tell a bunch of Giants fans that stupid **** huh? Why go way out of your way to prove a point that is totally irrelevant to real Giants fans. I can understandif people wantquestion our QB or any other player that we have at times. But to do it over and over and over and over and over and over and over again is simply a waste of time. I'm just tired of filtering through all the negativity just to find something good and valid said. IMO, this thread is a flat out stupid thing to suggest to a Giants fan.</P>


</P>


Well, if the the "pro Eli" people weren't so sensitive, there probably won't be 10 million threads about this. They make it far too fun, to take jabs here and there</P>


If you go over to the Steeler forums with the thread "Ben sucks", you think they'd get all up in arms and start an uproar? For the most part, you'll just get dismissed because they KNOW he's good.</P>


Bottom line is that the "pro Eli" people have just as much if not more to do with making it a Eli vs all thread then any other person out there.</P>

Road Beasts
02-02-2009, 01:38 PM
Then become a steelers fan. I read the first page and have been reading around threads, there are a lot of obnoxious "fans" here that have eli in there name, then bash him every post. I think giggles finally took a new approach to stop getting banned [:O]

NewYorkDave
02-02-2009, 01:41 PM
It is a good debate but until Eli can brin home another won Big Ben will win it every time. Ben had a better team around him this year. Some of Eli's mainmates sort of let him down. </P>



sorry Eli had the #1 rushing attack, #3 defense and a very good Oline. this nonesense that pitts and sandaigo have better teams around there QB is pure bs and a slap in the face to the rest of our good team.
</P>


We did have a great team but obviously it wasn't good enough. Our offense let the abscense of one man dictate what we did. The Steelers offense was much worse then ours but never let the play of their offensive line and the injury to Hines Ward slow them down. Not to mention the lack luster running game led. This was a team game and they got the job done as a collective whole. We did not. And Eli's mates DID let him down. Pierce is fat and out of shape and he proclaims himself as the leader of our defense. Plus he is out at night clubs drinking three days before a game. I can pretty much bet my life that Harrison and Polamalu haven't seen the inside of a night club since last off season. Our team is defintiely more talented and has the tools but we need to refocus on football. </P>


And I do not think it is a slap in the face to say the Super Bowl champs had a better all round team....and I said nothing at all about San Diego....they suck. I hate Rivers and Tomlinson has no heart.....oh yeah and Merriman is a cheatin steriod using punk.</P>



and Eli did not let them down vs the egals?
</P>


Who stepped up for Eli? Dropped passes and missed opportunities lost us that game. Not Eli.</P>


whoa, did you watch game??? Eli was key factor from play one missing steve smith streaking to end of game.
</P>


So Eli has to be perfect to get your respect? How about dumb calls by the coaching staff. Everyone inthe world knew Eli was going for the QB sneak on 4th and one. How about telgraphing every run by Jacobs and Ward? How about not using Bradshaw one goddamn time. The coaches got away from what we did best and put their hopes in guys like Hixon to get separation and make plays. Sure Eli made a couple of bad throws but the weather was terrible. Why did we not defer the ball and take the wind? That gave away field position for the rest of the game. Eli was definitely not perfect but the coaching staff did not put him in a good position to win that game. We put all our hopes into Hixon being phenomenal and he wasn't. That and Smith and Toomer were no where to be found. No one breaks away fromt he route whent he coverage is good. </P>


I am not saying Eli doesn't deservesome blame but too many people want to put it all on him and that is not accurate at all</P>


not buying it, play calling was suspect, but lets not forget we are talking about eli possibly getting 120mill, and we should not have to gameplan away from throwing in wind because our possibly 120mill dollar QB can't throw in wind, like I said, all other crappy throws in that game aside, on first lousy one to smith could have been possibly a momentum TD or at least 1st and goal, eli stunk it up all game long, and i don't want to hear it's windy, who cares? Why was donovan whipping it in the so called wind all 2nd half?? And hixon did get open and was badly missed by eli on another play that would have been big. How many times did he throw behind boss? Not to mention how goofy he looked on 4th and 1 qb sneak... What gives there? They actually talked about that on n.f.l network couple days later, saying how elementrey it should have been to dive between center and guard, and actually showed ben do it the right way, Eli bent over about 6inches and went right in to oharas back..I blame most of that game on eli
</P>


Donovan only had success when he was going witht he wind. The Eagles won control of the ball, field position, and always had the Giants throwing into the wind. No QB will be successful. I still say the MAIN reasons we lost was due to taking the ball and not utilizin Jacobs, Ward, adn Bradshaw correctly. Eli thrives on play action and no huddle. we ran 3 playaction passes all game and used the no huddle for a grand total of 37 seconds</P>

Gianthunter
02-02-2009, 01:45 PM
He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]
</P>


Threads like this make me wonder why the **** I even come on here to talk to people sometimes. The majority of people on here are actually Giants fans you can talk to. I am the only Giants fan I know in my whole area, so I come here to talk to some that are actually Giants fans. Instead, my hopes are dashed when idiot posts like this come out. Anyways, I can care less if I get suspended or not. Go **** yourself and someone should zap you everytime you attempt to post on these boards. If you love **** burger so much, jump off of our bandwagon and go on theirs. Now I'm done!!</P>


</P>


If you think Ben is better then Eli you're not a Giants fan? If you question your QB you're not a Giants fan? You think people want to question our QBs play? </P>


And I guess when other teams post about "stupid giant fans", I guess you would fall into that category. Kids these days.</P>


</P>


It's not that numbnuts. It's the negativity that pisses me off. If you feel that way about **** burger, fine. But why tell a bunch of Giants fans that stupid **** huh? Why go way out of your way to prove a point that is totally irrelevant to real Giants fans. I can understandif people wantquestion our QB or any other player that we have at times. But to do it over and over and over and over and over and over and over again is simply a waste of time. I'm just tired of filtering through all the negativity just to find something good and valid said. IMO, this thread is a flat out stupid thing to suggest to a Giants fan.</P>


</P>


Well, if the the "pro Eli" people weren't so sensitive, there probably won't be 10 million threads about this. They make it far too fun, to take jabs here and there</P>


If you go over to the Steeler forums with the thread "Ben sucks", you think they'd get all up in arms and start an uproar? For the most part, you'll just get dismissed because they KNOW he's good.</P>


Bottom line is that the "pro Eli" people have just as much if not more to do with making it a Eli vs all thread then any other person out there.</P>They believe he hassome faults to overcome. Just like we believe Eli does. Hey I partied with a buttload of em last night. OUCH BTW.And for the most part they are realistic when it comes to Ben. Well not the rabid ones but thats another thread.

nycsportzfan
02-02-2009, 01:48 PM
It is a good debate but until Eli can brin home another won Big Ben will win it every time. Ben had a better team around him this year. Some of Eli's mainmates sort of let him down. </p>



sorry Eli had the #1 rushing attack, #3 defense and a very good Oline. this nonesense that pitts and sandaigo have better teams around there QB is pure bs and a slap in the face to the rest of our good team.
</p>


We did have a great team but obviously it wasn't good enough. Our offense let the abscense of one man dictate what we did. The Steelers offense was much worse then ours but never let the play of their offensive line and the injury to Hines Ward slow them down. Not to mention the lack luster running game led. This was a team game and they got the job done as a collective whole. We did not. And Eli's mates DID let him down. Pierce is fat and out of shape and he proclaims himself as the leader of our defense. Plus he is out at night clubs drinking three days before a game. I can pretty much bet my life that Harrison and Polamalu haven't seen the inside of a night club since last off season. Our team is defintiely more talented and has the tools but we need to refocus on football. </p>


And I do not think it is a slap in the face to say the Super Bowl champs had a better all round team....and I said nothing at all about San Diego....they suck. I hate Rivers and Tomlinson has no heart.....oh yeah and Merriman is a cheatin steriod using punk.</p>



and Eli did not let them down vs the egals?
</p>


Who stepped up for Eli? Dropped passes and missed opportunities lost us that game. Not Eli.</p>


whoa, did you watch game??? Eli was key factor from play one missing steve smith streaking to end of game.
</p>


So Eli has to be perfect to get your respect? How about dumb calls by the coaching staff. Everyone inthe world knew Eli was going for the QB sneak on 4th and one. How about telgraphing every run by Jacobs and Ward? How about not using Bradshaw one goddamn time. The coaches got away from what we did best and put their hopes in guys like Hixon to get separation and make plays. Sure Eli made a couple of bad throws but the weather was terrible. Why did we not defer the ball and take the wind? That gave away field position for the rest of the game. Eli was definitely not perfect but the coaching staff did not put him in a good position to win that game. We put all our hopes into Hixon being phenomenal and he wasn't. That and Smith and Toomer were no where to be found. No one breaks away fromt he route whent he coverage is good. </p>


I am not saying Eli doesn't deservesome blame but too many people want to put it all on him and that is not accurate at all</p>


not buying it, play calling was suspect, but lets not forget we are talking about eli possibly getting 120mill, and we should not have to gameplan away from throwing in wind because our possibly 120mill dollar QB can't throw in wind, like I said, all other crappy throws in that game aside, on first lousy one to smith could have been possibly a momentum TD or at least 1st and goal, eli stunk it up all game long, and i don't want to hear it's windy, who cares? Why was donovan whipping it in the so called wind all 2nd half?? And hixon did get open and was badly missed by eli on another play that would have been big. How many times did he throw behind boss? Not to mention how goofy he looked on 4th and 1 qb sneak... What gives there? They actually talked about that on n.f.l network couple days later, saying how elementrey it should have been to dive between center and guard, and actually showed ben do it the right way, Eli bent over about 6inches and went right in to oharas back..I blame most of that game on eli
</p>


Donovan only had success when he was going witht he wind. The Eagles won control of the ball, field position, and always had the Giants throwing into the wind. No QB will be successful. I still say the MAIN reasons we lost was due to taking the ball and not utilizin Jacobs, Ward, adn Bradshaw correctly. Eli thrives on play action and no huddle. we ran 3 playaction passes all game and used the no huddle for a grand total of 37 seconds</p> We haven't been using bradshaw much all season long, i don't know why that suprises you so much, and donovan did have success going in to wind in 2nd half, i'm telling you. Even that 3rd and 20 was in to the wind, I agree that we should go no huddle alot more than we do, that is a more than fair statement, but i wonder why you keep saying donovan didn't shred it up going through wind, becasue he did.

sharick88
02-02-2009, 01:52 PM
Then become a steelers fan. I read the first page and have been reading around threads, there are a lot of obnoxious "fans" here that have eli in there name, then bash him every post. I think giggles finally took a new approach to stop getting banned [:O]
</P>


Yeah, tell me about it. Like I said, people do things like this on purpose. The reasons for their complaining just don't make any sense to me. It's the same **** over and over again</P>

NJ10
02-02-2009, 01:53 PM
Eli &gt; Ben</P>


</P>


Ben almost lost them the first Super Bowl, he played terrible. The second one he played ok, Santonio made him look good. Definitly not an MVP perfromance like Eli last year. </P>

NewYorkDave
02-02-2009, 01:59 PM
It is a good debate but until Eli can brin home another won Big Ben will win it every time. Ben had a better team around him this year. Some of Eli's mainmates sort of let him down. </P>



sorry Eli had the #1 rushing attack, #3 defense and a very good Oline. this nonesense that pitts and sandaigo have better teams around there QB is pure bs and a slap in the face to the rest of our good team.
</P>


We did have a great team but obviously it wasn't good enough. Our offense let the abscense of one man dictate what we did. The Steelers offense was much worse then ours but never let the play of their offensive line and the injury to Hines Ward slow them down. Not to mention the lack luster running game led. This was a team game and they got the job done as a collective whole. We did not. And Eli's mates DID let him down. Pierce is fat and out of shape and he proclaims himself as the leader of our defense. Plus he is out at night clubs drinking three days before a game. I can pretty much bet my life that Harrison and Polamalu haven't seen the inside of a night club since last off season. Our team is defintiely more talented and has the tools but we need to refocus on football. </P>


And I do not think it is a slap in the face to say the Super Bowl champs had a better all round team....and I said nothing at all about San Diego....they suck. I hate Rivers and Tomlinson has no heart.....oh yeah and Merriman is a cheatin steriod using punk.</P>



and Eli did not let them down vs the egals?
</P>


Who stepped up for Eli? Dropped passes and missed opportunities lost us that game. Not Eli.</P>


whoa, did you watch game??? Eli was key factor from play one missing steve smith streaking to end of game.
</P>


So Eli has to be perfect to get your respect? How about dumb calls by the coaching staff. Everyone inthe world knew Eli was going for the QB sneak on 4th and one. How about telgraphing every run by Jacobs and Ward? How about not using Bradshaw one goddamn time. The coaches got away from what we did best and put their hopes in guys like Hixon to get separation and make plays. Sure Eli made a couple of bad throws but the weather was terrible. Why did we not defer the ball and take the wind? That gave away field position for the rest of the game. Eli was definitely not perfect but the coaching staff did not put him in a good position to win that game. We put all our hopes into Hixon being phenomenal and he wasn't. That and Smith and Toomer were no where to be found. No one breaks away fromt he route whent he coverage is good. </P>


I am not saying Eli doesn't deservesome blame but too many people want to put it all on him and that is not accurate at all</P>


not buying it, play calling was suspect, but lets not forget we are talking about eli possibly getting 120mill, and we should not have to gameplan away from throwing in wind because our possibly 120mill dollar QB can't throw in wind, like I said, all other crappy throws in that game aside, on first lousy one to smith could have been possibly a momentum TD or at least 1st and goal, eli stunk it up all game long, and i don't want to hear it's windy, who cares? Why was donovan whipping it in the so called wind all 2nd half?? And hixon did get open and was badly missed by eli on another play that would have been big. How many times did he throw behind boss? Not to mention how goofy he looked on 4th and 1 qb sneak... What gives there? They actually talked about that on n.f.l network couple days later, saying how elementrey it should have been to dive between center and guard, and actually showed ben do it the right way, Eli bent over about 6inches and went right in to oharas back..I blame most of that game on eli
</P>


Donovan only had success when he was going witht he wind. The Eagles won control of the ball, field position, and always had the Giants throwing into the wind. No QB will be successful. I still say the MAIN reasons we lost was due to taking the ball and not utilizin Jacobs, Ward, adn Bradshaw correctly. Eli thrives on play action and no huddle. we ran 3 playaction passes all game and used the no huddle for a grand total of 37 seconds</P>


We haven't been using bradshaw much all season long, i don't know why that suprises you so much, and donovan did have success going in to wind in 2nd half, i'm telling you. Even that 3rd and 20 was in to the wind, I agree that we should go no huddle alot more than we do, that is a more than fair statement, but i wonder why you keep saying donovan didn't shred it up going through wind, becasue he did.
</P>


Okay even if you are right you can't discount the 12 games Eli played in the same stadium witht he same wind. It wasn't the most intense wind he has seen and he has won and played well in worse weather. We were 12-5 this year. Oh and we went from not using Bradshaw much to not using him at all. When our offense stalled during the game we didn't make one adjusment int he passing game or running game to try and offset it. Bradshaw would have loved to get the ball there...why not give it to him???</P>

bluemagic
02-02-2009, 02:04 PM
enough with comparing these guys..........you cant compare two completely different players</P>


thats like comparing reggie bush to a running back</P>


or derek anderson to a QB</P>

LuckOfTuck
02-02-2009, 02:17 PM
enough with comparing these guys..........you cant compare two completely different players</p>


thats like comparing reggie bush to a running back</p>


or derek anderson to a QB</p>
Why not? They are both quarterbacks and not too different.

jgrangers2
02-02-2009, 02:31 PM
enough with comparing these guys..........you cant compare two completely different players</P>


thats like comparing reggie bush to a running back</P>


or derek anderson to a QB</P>



Why not? They are both quarterbacks and not too different.
</P>


Because they play in different systems and are asked to do different things. Who knows how Ben would do in the Giants offense where he would be asked to make more difficult throws or how Eli would do with the poor Steelers O-line? Ben got away with a couple of poor passes last night that I see Eli make regularly. Ben's improv ability might be unmatched by anyone, but I think it's safe to say that Eli can make the deep pass much better simply because he has a bigger arm.</P>

LuckOfTuck
02-02-2009, 02:53 PM
enough with comparing these guys..........you cant compare two completely different players</p>


thats like comparing reggie bush to a running back</p>


or derek anderson to a QB</p>



Why not? They are both quarterbacks and not too different.
</p>


Because they play in different systems and are asked to do different things. Who knows how Ben would do in the Giants offense where he would be asked to make more difficult throws or how Eli would do with the poor Steelers O-line? Ben got away with a couple of poor passes last night that I see Eli make regularly. Ben's improv ability might be unmatched by anyone, but I think it's safe to say that Eli can make the deep pass much better simply because he has a bigger arm.</p>
I think Ben has the stronger arm and throws a better deep ball. And let's not act like Eli never makes any bad passes. In fact, he does it more often than Ben.

bELIeve_in_Giants
02-02-2009, 03:15 PM
I don't care who is better! I like Eli. I like him as our QB. I don't mind the roller coaster ride he provides - it can certainly be thrilling at times, afterall. </P>


</P>


</P>

jgrangers2
02-02-2009, 03:32 PM
enough with comparing these guys..........you cant compare two completely different players</P>


thats like comparing reggie bush to a running back</P>


or derek anderson to a QB</P>



Why not? They are both quarterbacks and not too different.
</P>


Because they play in different systems and are asked to do different things. Who knows how Ben would do in the Giants offense where he would be asked to make more difficult throws or how Eli would do with the poor Steelers O-line? Ben got away with a couple of poor passes last night that I see Eli make regularly. Ben's improv ability might be unmatched by anyone, but I think it's safe to say that Eli can make the deep pass much better simply because he has a bigger arm.</P>



I think Ben has the stronger arm and throws a better deep ball. And let's not act like Eli never makes any bad passes. In fact, he does it more often than Ben.
</P>


Who said he never throws bad passes? All I'm saying is that everybody makes bad passes and some people seem to act like Eli is the only one. I think Eli has a better deep ball and stronger arm as I've seen Ben underthrow a number of receivers deep down field.Also, I've seen Eli make his fair share of great throws anyway, it's not like he can't make tough throws. Anyone who says Eli can't make these difficult throws has clearly not watched this team for the past 4 years.</P>

bandwgn86
02-02-2009, 03:32 PM
i posted this in another argument on "who's better" awhile back..i agree the 2 cannot be compared.. 2 different teams and 2 different divisions.. </P>


<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><FONT face=Arial>okay so here is my last arguement for BigClock....he's won't listen so i don't imagine he'll get this either<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>


<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><FONT face=Arial>lets look at it another way (and this is for all to repeat at will)...overall raked Defences in divisions<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>


<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><FONT face=Arial>2008 BAL 2 CIN 12 CLE <SPAN style="COLOR: red">26</SPAN> <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>


<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><FONT face=Arial>2008 DAL 8 PHI 3 WAS 4<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>


<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><FONT face=Arial><o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>


<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><FONT face=Arial>2007 BAL 6 CIN <SPAN style="COLOR: red">27</SPAN> CLE<SPAN style="COLOR: red">30</SPAN><o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>


<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><FONT face=Arial>2007DAL 9 PHI 10 WAS 8<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>


<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><FONT face=Arial><o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>


<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><FONT face=Arial>2006 BAL 1 CIN <SPAN style="COLOR: red">30</SPAN> CLE <SPAN style="COLOR: red">27</SPAN><o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>


<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><FONT face=Arial>2006 DAL 13 PHI 15 WAS <SPAN style="COLOR: red">31</SPAN><o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>


<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><FONT face=Arial><o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>


<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><FONT face=Arial>2005 BAL 5 CIN <SPAN style="COLOR: red">28</SPAN> CLE 16<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>


<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><FONT face=Arial>2005 DAL 10 PHI <SPAN style="COLOR: red">23</SPAN> WAS 9<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>


<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><FONT face=Arial>Imsure you can figure out what the red is...would be nice to play those teams twice a year talk aboutpadding the stats!!! idoubt Big Ben couldhandle NY his holding onto the ball in a blitz happy division would be a nightmare... Eli'sstats would dramatically improve in PIT just by playing softer defences 4 times a year.....</FONT></SPAN></P>





</P></P>

rebelfan1966
02-02-2009, 03:34 PM
I like Big Ben, He did have a solid game in the SB and a pretty fair season. However, he has many up and down games.... the same thing Eli gets creamed for over and over again. </P>


As for the SB, Ben played solid but Warner was the better QB on the field in my opinion.</P>


Also, speaking of the SB, the Cardinals killed themselves with penalties and I don't think the refs called the game fairly as the Steelers got away with a few. </P>

janstett
02-02-2009, 03:44 PM
who cares. 2 super bowls are better than 1. they've been in the league the same number of years and ben has done so much more. on top of that, eli was helped immensely by tyree. holmes made a great catch tonight but it wasn't a miracle.


You forget how awful Little Lenny Worthlessburger was in SB XL. 9 for 23 for 119 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT. Eli had more yards in the 4th quarter of SB XLII alone. And he still has more TD passes.

And Heinz Ward didn't shoot himself in the leg.

janstett
02-02-2009, 03:49 PM
this is such a bizarre thread. Eli last year clearly outplayed Ben this year. It's not a big deal because Ben played fine tonight and that touchdown throw was wonderful and an even better catch by the MVP Santonio Holmes, but honestly, overall, Big Ben was just kind of...meh.
Eli was nothing special for most of the game last year too.



Ew...what's that comment all about? It was a tense three quarters against an 18-0 team until the Giants came in and took that championship by the throat. Eli came in with two touchdown passes in the fourth quarter. Big Ben was fine tonight, but like I said, after what I saw last year, meh...

The Steelers D was brilliant, especially that well-studied pick off Warner's unfortunate pass at the end of the half. Ben had nothing to do with that.

He was an admirable participant in tonight's win, but well, meh...
The Giants had 3 points through three quarters. That was nothing special.


How quickly we forget.

The first drive set a superbowl record for a first drive (10:00 time of possession). The second drive they were moving the ball on the Patsies (remember Amani Toomer's tip-toe sideline catch) and were moving in for a score when Steve Smith bobbled Eli's pass for an interception.

LuckOfTuck
02-02-2009, 04:01 PM
this is such a bizarre thread. Eli last year clearly outplayed Ben this year. It's not a big deal because Ben played fine tonight and that touchdown throw was wonderful and an even better catch by the MVP Santonio Holmes, but honestly, overall, Big Ben was just kind of...meh.
Eli was nothing special for most of the game last year too.



Ew...what's that comment all about? It was a tense three quarters against an 18-0 team until the Giants came in and took that championship by the throat. Eli came in with two touchdown passes in the fourth quarter. Big Ben was fine tonight, but like I said, after what I saw last year, meh...

The Steelers D was brilliant, especially that well-studied pick off Warner's unfortunate pass at the end of the half. Ben had nothing to do with that.

He was an admirable participant in tonight's win, but well, meh...
The Giants had 3 points through three quarters. That was nothing special.


How quickly we forget.

The first drive set a superbowl record for a first drive (10:00 time of possession). The second drive they were moving the ball on the Patsies (remember Amani Toomer's tip-toe sideline catch) and were moving in for a score when Steve Smith bobbled Eli's pass for an interception.

I'm not forgetting anything.

FBomb
02-02-2009, 04:30 PM
I was wondering which idiot was going to start this thread. </P>


The only surprise is, it's the only one on the front page.</P>

BlueBlitzer
02-02-2009, 04:48 PM
<FONT size=4> The Giants never get a " Tune-Up Game when we go Super. It's always Broncos, Bills, Ravens, Perfect Patriots, and God knows who else next year. BennyPoo gets to play the Tweety Birds : Seahawks, Cardinals.</FONT>
probably because he plays in the AFC you bobo. lmao
he has beaten those teams in the playoffs a few times. and at home no less.
</P>


<FONT size=4>You know Damn well, I was talking about the Level of play, not what specific Team the Steelers would meet in the SB..........The Seahawks and Cardinals are nowhere near the caliber of last years Patriots. Didn't 8-Teams beat the Cardinals, and it took " Benji " the last 2 minutes to beat em.</FONT></P>

ManningBowl
02-02-2009, 05:24 PM
enough with comparing these guys..........you cant compare two completely different players</P>


thats like comparing reggie bush to a running back</P>


or derek anderson to a QB</P>



Why not? They are both quarterbacks and not too different.
</P>


Because they play in different systems and are asked to do different things. Who knows how Ben would do in the Giants offense where he would be asked to make more difficult throws or how Eli would do with the poor Steelers O-line? Ben got away with a couple of poor passes last night that I see Eli make regularly. Ben's improv ability might be unmatched by anyone, but I think it's safe to say that Eli can make the deep pass much better simply because he has a bigger arm.</P>


</P>


What difficult throws is Eli asked to make? Eli has a weak arm compared to BenBe serious.... Some of you guys will reach for anything.. Eli has some strong arm.. Give me a break Eli can't even throw a spiral and his ball flutters in the wind.. Ben has no problem throwing the ball all over the lot in Pitt</P>


Ben's arm is bigger and much more accurate</P>

bELIeve_in_Giants
02-02-2009, 05:36 PM
I'm going to repeat my answer from a few pages back....</P>


I don't care who is better! I like Eli. That's who I want as our QB. I'm tired of all of the comparisons. Just root for who you have, and stop lamenting "what could've been" b/c you'll never know what it would've been like with the others. </P>


(p.s. - how come there aren't any comparison threads with our other players?)</P>

sharick88
02-02-2009, 05:55 PM
I'm going to repeat my answer from a few pages back....</P>


I don't care who is better! I like Eli. That's who I want as our QB. I'm tired of all of the comparisons. Just root for who you have, and stop lamenting "what could've been" b/c you'll never know what it would've been like with the others. </P>


(p.s. - how come there aren't any comparison threads with our other players?)</P>


</P>


Some of these people have had it out for him since he got here. Even after our SB win, these same people were tripping about the int he threw, which wasn't even his fault!! Then after he plays an improved season, cutting his ints in half and actually making the pro bowl, they still continue with their bull****. These people are just like babies to me, crying for no ****ing reason. At times, Eli does deserve criticism. But when it comes from the same people, everyday and everyweek, that's when it becomes annoying.</P>

jgrangers2
02-02-2009, 06:43 PM
enough with comparing these guys..........you cant compare two completely different players</P>


thats like comparing reggie bush to a running back</P>


or derek anderson to a QB</P>



Why not? They are both quarterbacks and not too different.
</P>


Because they play in different systems and are asked to do different things. Who knows how Ben would do in the Giants offense where he would be asked to make more difficult throws or how Eli would do with the poor Steelers O-line? Ben got away with a couple of poor passes last night that I see Eli make regularly. Ben's improv ability might be unmatched by anyone, but I think it's safe to say that Eli can make the deep pass much better simply because he has a bigger arm.</P>


</P>


What difficult throws is Eli asked to make? Eli has a weak arm compared to BenBe serious.... Some of you guys will reach for anything.. Eli has some strong arm.. Give me a break Eli can't even throw a spiral and his ball flutters in the wind.. Ben has no problem throwing the ball all over the lot in Pitt</P>


Ben's arm is bigger and much more accurate</P>


</P>


Give me a break. Arm strength is clearly in favor of Eli. His problem most of the on deep balls is that he throws it too far as opposed to Ben who I've seen underthrow his receivers a number of times. Last night alone I saw two plays where Ben underthrew an open receiver down the field and it almost turned into a pick. Eli has made his fair share of great throws, you just choose to ignore them in favor of focusing on the negative. </P>

Mua Dib
02-02-2009, 06:47 PM
I'm going to repeat my answer from a few pages back....</P>


I don't care who is better! I like Eli. That's who I want as our QB. I'm tired of all of the comparisons. Just root for who you have, and stop lamenting "what could've been" b/c you'll never know what it would've been like with the others. </P>


(p.s. - how come there aren't any comparison threads with our other players?)</P>Eli really is a likable kid, kinda nerdy but in a nice way, he's like the Anti-Brady.

GiantsWinAlltime
02-02-2009, 06:48 PM
You all can bash me for this but I feel that Eli make mistakes on purpose. He makes mistakes so that he will not pass his brother in stats.

jgrangers2
02-02-2009, 06:58 PM
You all can bash me for this but I feel that Eli make mistakes on purpose. He makes mistakes so that he will not pass his brother in stats.</P>


<FONT color=#ff0000>Good theory</FONT></P>

bandwgn86
02-02-2009, 06:58 PM
You all can bash me for this but I feel that Eli make mistakes on purpose. He makes mistakes so that he will not pass his brother in stats.</P>


thats awesome i'm gonna keep that in my sig....don't worry i'll put your name downshowing its yoursidon't wanna seem like i'm stealing thisquote from you.. </P>

NewYorkDave
02-02-2009, 07:03 PM
enough with comparing these guys..........you cant compare two completely different players</P>


thats like comparing reggie bush to a running back</P>


or derek anderson to a QB</P>



Why not? They are both quarterbacks and not too different.
</P>


Because they play in different systems and are asked to do different things. Who knows how Ben would do in the Giants offense where he would be asked to make more difficult throws or how Eli would do with the poor Steelers O-line? Ben got away with a couple of poor passes last night that I see Eli make regularly. Ben's improv ability might be unmatched by anyone, but I think it's safe to say that Eli can make the deep pass much better simply because he has a bigger arm.</P>


</P>


What difficult throws is Eli asked to make? Eli has a weak arm compared to BenBe serious.... Some of you guys will reach for anything.. Eli has some strong arm.. Give me a break Eli can't even throw a spiral and his ball flutters in the wind.. Ben has no problem throwing the ball all over the lot in Pitt</P>


Ben's arm is bigger and much more accurate</P>


</P>


Give me a break. Arm strength is clearly in favor of Eli. His problem most of the on deep balls is that he throws it too far as opposed to Ben who I've seen underthrow his receivers a number of times. Last night alone I saw two plays where Ben underthrew an open receiver down the field and it almost turned into a pick. Eli has made his fair share of great throws, you just choose to ignore them in favor of focusing on the negative. </P>


</P>


I love your whole post but I will take you one further and say that Eli has the best arm strengh of any qb from that draft class! I don't see how you can argue it. What Eli is missing is a WR that can catch and run withthe ball. Plax, Toomer, Smith all have great hands but we rarely ever see them do what Holmes, Ward,or Fitz did last night in catching the ball and turning a 15 yard pass into a big time gain. </P>


And people absolutely ignore Eli's successes and focus on the negative here. We were 12-4 and conference champs. We had the best offense in the NFL for much of the season. We lost Plax and BJ late int he year and still finished int he top 5. For some reason people want to make believe that Eli had nothing to do with it. As if he is some force working against the rest of the offense. So basically what I read and take from the critics in this thread is when the Giants are doing well it is because of everyone else and when we are doing bad it is Eli's short comings sabotaging a great offense. I would be more equipped to buy that if we were talking about a RB or WR but this the QB here! You can't go 12-4 in this league especially in the NFC East without a capable and consistent QB! Even behind Kurt Warner and in the NFC West the Cardinals only finsihed 9-7.I am not saying Eli is perfect but come on people give him some credit for his accomplishments. We have been playoff contenders every year he has been here. We have now been division and conference champs. We have won the Super Bowl and he rightfully got the MVP!We haven't had a QB thatretiredwith that kind of resumesince Simms. You all need to remember where we were @ the QB positionbefore we got Eli.</P>

jgrangers2
02-02-2009, 07:19 PM
enough with comparing these guys..........you cant compare two completely different players</P>


thats like comparing reggie bush to a running back</P>


or derek anderson to a QB</P>



Why not? They are both quarterbacks and not too different.
</P>


Because they play in different systems and are asked to do different things. Who knows how Ben would do in the Giants offense where he would be asked to make more difficult throws or how Eli would do with the poor Steelers O-line? Ben got away with a couple of poor passes last night that I see Eli make regularly. Ben's improv ability might be unmatched by anyone, but I think it's safe to say that Eli can make the deep pass much better simply because he has a bigger arm.</P>


</P>


What difficult throws is Eli asked to make? Eli has a weak arm compared to BenBe serious.... Some of you guys will reach for anything.. Eli has some strong arm.. Give me a break Eli can't even throw a spiral and his ball flutters in the wind.. Ben has no problem throwing the ball all over the lot in Pitt</P>


Ben's arm is bigger and much more accurate</P>


</P>


Give me a break. Arm strength is clearly in favor of Eli. His problem most of the on deep balls is that he throws it too far as opposed to Ben who I've seen underthrow his receivers a number of times. Last night alone I saw two plays where Ben underthrew an open receiver down the field and it almost turned into a pick. Eli has made his fair share of great throws, you just choose to ignore them in favor of focusing on the negative. </P>


</P>


I love your whole post but I will take you one further and say that Eli has the best arm strengh of any qb from that draft class! I don't see how you can argue it. What Eli is missing is a WR that can catch and run withthe ball. Plax, Toomer, Smith all have great hands but we rarely ever see them do what Holmes, Ward,or Fitz did last night in catching the ball and turning a 15 yard pass into a big time gain. </P>


And people absolutely ignore Eli's successes and focus on the negative here. We were 12-4 and conference champs. We had the best offense in the NFL for much of the season. We lost Plax and BJ late int he year and still finished int he top 5. For some reason people want to make believe that Eli had nothing to do with it. As if he is some force working against the rest of the offense. So basically what I read and take from the critics in this thread is when the Giants are doing well it is because of everyone else and when we are doing bad it is Eli's short comings sabotaging a great offense. I would be more equipped to buy that if we were talking about a RB or WR but this the QB here! You can't go 12-4 in this league especially in the NFC East without a capable and consistent QB! Even behind Kurt Warner and in the NFC West the Cardinals only finsihed 9-7.I am not saying Eli is perfect but come on people give him some credit for his accomplishments. We have been playoff contenders every year he has been here. We have now been division and conference champs. We have won the Super Bowl and he rightfully got the MVP!We haven't had a QB thatretiredwith that kind of resumesince Simms. You all need to remember where we were @ the QB positionbefore we got Eli.</P>


</P>


Overall, it's just another example of the grass is always greener. People always wish for what they don't have and that's all this seems to be. Eli has made his fair share of great throws and I don't know how some of these people can argue that Ben's arm is stronger than Eli's. Ben has his issues too, just ask any Steeler fan, they get frustrated about his inconsistencies as much as Giant fans get frustrated about Eli's.</P>

Bleedin Blue Since '62
02-02-2009, 07:41 PM
I'm going to repeat my answer from a few pages back....</P>


I don't care who is better! I like Eli. That's who I want as our QB. I'm tired of all of the comparisons. Just root for who you have, and stop lamenting "what could've been" b/c you'll never know what it would've been like with the others. </P>


(p.s. - how come there aren't any comparison threads with our other players?)</P>


Eli really is a likable kid, kinda nerdy but in a nice way, he's like the Anti-Brady.</P>


<FONT color=#0000ff>Why do so many still refer to Eli as "the kid"? He's entering his 6th year in the league. Must be the baby face.</FONT></P>

LT= Lawrence Taylor
02-02-2009, 07:43 PM
I'm going to repeat my answer from a few pages back....</p>


I don't care who is better! I like Eli. That's who I want as our QB. I'm tired of all of the comparisons. Just root for who you have, and stop lamenting "what could've been" b/c you'll never know what it would've been like with the others. </p>


(p.s. - how come there aren't any comparison threads with our other players?)</p>


Eli really is a likable kid, kinda nerdy but in a nice way, he's like the Anti-Brady.</p>


<font color="#0000ff">Why do so many still refer to Eli as "the kid"? He's entering his 6th year in the league. Must be the baby face.</font></p>

He's always the Kid Brother in the Manning family. Guess that's why.

Hard to believe he's in his 6th year already... [:|]

LuckOfTuck
02-02-2009, 08:40 PM
I'm going to repeat my answer from a few pages back....</p>


I don't care who is better! I like Eli. That's who I want as our QB. I'm tired of all of the comparisons. Just root for who you have, and stop lamenting "what could've been" b/c you'll never know what it would've been like with the others. </p>


(p.s. - how come there aren't any comparison threads with our other players?)</p>


Eli really is a likable kid, kinda nerdy but in a nice way, he's like the Anti-Brady.</p>


<font color="#0000ff">Why do so many still refer to Eli as "the kid"? He's entering his 6th year in the league. Must be the baby face.</font></p>

He's always the Kid Brother in the Manning family. Guess that's why.

Hard to believe he's in his 6th year already... [:|]

Yes it's time to stop calling him a young quarterback.

GiantsMets#1
02-02-2009, 08:55 PM
You could say the same about Kurt Warner.</P>


I was waiting for one of these threads. You are entitled to your opinion. Ben was awesome in spurtsbut alot of the plays he makes are due to an Alan Faneca-less, less than stellar offensive line and his own ill-advisedneed to hold on to the ball longer than he should. He will never last three more seasons with this Roethlisburger - Rambo-style football technique. He is John Elway without the overall passing ability. This style of play will catch up to him. </P>


If Plaxico had not shot himself and the Giants repeated like everyone predicted they would, you'd be ironing your Eli Manning jersey and not lobbying for a free Ben Roethliesburger one.</P>


One thing Ben did do was what Eli did last year -- win his team a championship on an awesome 4th quarter drive. Guess they are more alike that you are willing to admit.</P>


Check Roethliesburger's number vs. Eli this season. It was the defense that got the Steelers to the Super Bowl. Ben is great and fights to win games his way. As long as Eli is winning games, NY should be happy with their Number #1 draft choice as the Steelers are with theirs.</P>



He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]
</P>

LuckOfTuck
02-02-2009, 09:02 PM
You could say the same about Kurt Warner.</p>


I was waiting for one of these threads. You are entitled to your opinion. Ben was awesome in spurtsbut alot of the plays he makes are due to an Alan Faneca-less, less than stellar offensive line and his own ill-advisedneed to hold on to the ball longer than he should. He will never last three more seasons with this Roethlisburger - Rambo-style football technique. He is John Elway without the overall passing ability. This style of play will catch up to him. </p>


If Plaxico had not shot himself and the Giants repeated like everyone predicted they would, you'd be ironing your Eli Manning jersey and not lobbying for a free Ben Roethliesburger one.</p>


One thing Ben did do was what Eli did last year -- win his team a championship on an awesome 4th quarter drive. Guess they are more alike that you are willing to admit.</p>


Check Roethliesburger's number vs. Eli this season. It was the defense that got the Steelers to the Super Bowl. Ben is great and fights to win games his way. As long as Eli is winning games, NY should be happy with their Number #1 draft choice as the Steelers are with theirs.</p>



He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]
</p>
Funny that you mention his stats because this year was easily his worse. Look at his overall stats for his career and you will see a superior quarterback.

GiantsMets#1
02-02-2009, 09:02 PM
Amen! Well said! I don't remember any fans in last year Super Bowl victory parade chanting "WE WANT BEN! WE WANT BEN!" </P>


We have such a loyal fan base! Wow! [:$]</P>









</P>


enough with comparing these guys..........you cant compare two completely different players</P>


thats like comparing reggie bush to a running back</P>


or derek anderson to a QB</P>



Why not? They are both quarterbacks and not too different.
</P>


Because they play in different systems and are asked to do different things. Who knows how Ben would do in the Giants offense where he would be asked to make more difficult throws or how Eli would do with the poor Steelers O-line? Ben got away with a couple of poor passes last night that I see Eli make regularly. Ben's improv ability might be unmatched by anyone, but I think it's safe to say that Eli can make the deep pass much better simply because he has a bigger arm.</P>


</P>


What difficult throws is Eli asked to make? Eli has a weak arm compared to BenBe serious.... Some of you guys will reach for anything.. Eli has some strong arm.. Give me a break Eli can't even throw a spiral and his ball flutters in the wind.. Ben has no problem throwing the ball all over the lot in Pitt</P>


Ben's arm is bigger and much more accurate</P>


</P>


Give me a break. Arm strength is clearly in favor of Eli. His problem most of the on deep balls is that he throws it too far as opposed to Ben who I've seen underthrow his receivers a number of times. Last night alone I saw two plays where Ben underthrew an open receiver down the field and it almost turned into a pick. Eli has made his fair share of great throws, you just choose to ignore them in favor of focusing on the negative. </P>


</P>


I love your whole post but I will take you one further and say that Eli has the best arm strengh of any qb from that draft class! I don't see how you can argue it. What Eli is missing is a WR that can catch and run withthe ball. Plax, Toomer, Smith all have great hands but we rarely ever see them do what Holmes, Ward,or Fitz did last night in catching the ball and turning a 15 yard pass into a big time gain. </P>


And people absolutely ignore Eli's successes and focus on the negative here. We were 12-4 and conference champs. We had the best offense in the NFL for much of the season. We lost Plax and BJ late int he year and still finished int he top 5. For some reason people want to make believe that Eli had nothing to do with it. As if he is some force working against the rest of the offense. So basically what I read and take from the critics in this thread is when the Giants are doing well it is because of everyone else and when we are doing bad it is Eli's short comings sabotaging a great offense. I would be more equipped to buy that if we were talking about a RB or WR but this the QB here! You can't go 12-4 in this league especially in the NFC East without a capable and consistent QB! Even behind Kurt Warner and in the NFC West the Cardinals only finsihed 9-7.I am not saying Eli is perfect but come on people give him some credit for his accomplishments. We have been playoff contenders every year he has been here. We have now been division and conference champs. We have won the Super Bowl and he rightfully got the MVP!We haven't had a QB thatretiredwith that kind of resumesince Simms. You all need to remember where we were @ the QB positionbefore we got Eli.</P>


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Overall, it's just another example of the grass is always greener. People always wish for what they don't have and that's all this seems to be. Eli has made his fair share of great throws and I don't know how some of these people can argue that Ben's arm is stronger than Eli's. Ben has his issues too, just ask any Steeler fan, they get frustrated about his inconsistencies as much as Giant fans get frustrated about Eli's.</P>

GiantsMets#1
02-02-2009, 09:15 PM
I know Ben's stats. They have been affected by the offensive line and the pounding he's taken. He had all his weapons and Eli didn't. Rivers' season stats are better than Ben and Eli's. The Rivers posts were rampant until the Chargers lost. Some of the fans are acting like kids in a toy store. Ben Roethlisburger has his critics as well. And with so much football left in both careers, neither Ben or Eli are Hall of Famers yet. Fans just have to realize that footballis not like toy shopping. These players are team investments and if Eli's career lasts three seasons longer than Ben's, it will have been anexcellent investment. Given Eli won a Super Bowl in his first four seasons and would have easily won another this season if the Plax incident had not occurred, I think the Giants and their fans should be very proud of the dividends their investment has/is paying.</P>




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You could say the same about Kurt Warner.</P>


I was waiting for one of these threads. You are entitled to your opinion. Ben was awesome in spurtsbut alot of the plays he makes are due to an Alan Faneca-less, less than stellar offensive line and his own ill-advisedneed to hold on to the ball longer than he should. He will never last three more seasons with this Roethlisburger - Rambo-style football technique. He is John Elway without the overall passing ability. This style of play will catch up to him. </P>


If Plaxico had not shot himself and the Giants repeated like everyone predicted they would, you'd be ironing your Eli Manning jersey and not lobbying for a free Ben Roethliesburger one.</P>


One thing Ben did do was what Eli did last year -- win his team a championship on an awesome 4th quarter drive. Guess they are more alike that you are willing to admit.</P>


Check Roethliesburger's number vs. Eli this season. It was the defense that got the Steelers to the Super Bowl. Ben is great and fights to win games his way. As long as Eli is winning games, NY should be happy with their Number #1 draft choice as the Steelers are with theirs.</P>



He's making plays all over the field and avoiding sacks. And to think that we could've had him. I guess I'll just have to wait until next year. [:(]
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Funny that you mention his stats because this year was easily his worse. Look at his overall stats for his career and you will see a superior quarterback.