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View Full Version : GILBRIDE COST US THE GAME



ManningToJPP
12-03-2012, 10:53 AM
http://www.giants101.com/2012/12/03/new-york-giants-kevin-gilbride-i-think-i%E2%80%99m-the-best-there-is/


Hey guys,

Say what you want about my main man Kevin, but he is my boy for life. He proves the doubters wrong when it counts, and throws in a vanilla gameplan to keep other teams off balance. He is almost as cool as Martellus Bennet.

Rudyy
12-03-2012, 10:55 AM
Kevin Gilbride has done great things for our team.
The best? I'm not sure I'm willing to say that.

ManningToJPP
12-03-2012, 10:57 AM
Self Proclaimed. Lol

Gotta believe in the kevinator, lets hope he pulls another rabbit out of his gut tonight :)

Moke
12-03-2012, 10:57 AM
http://www.giants101.com/2012/12/03/new-york-giants-kevin-gilbride-i-think-i’m-the-best-there-is/


Hey guys,

Say what you want about my main man Kevin, but he is my boy for life. He proves the doubters wrong when it counts, and throws in a vanilla gameplan to keep other teams off balance. He is almost as cool as Martellus Bennet.

Is he really your bro for life?

You guys have a great friendship.

ManningToJPP
12-03-2012, 10:58 AM
Is he really your bro for life?

You guys have a great friendship.

bfflbros4lyfe, yup

BuffyBlueII
12-03-2012, 11:05 AM
KG is probably one of the worst OCs in NFL. We win in spite of him.

ManningToJPP
12-03-2012, 11:07 AM
KG is probably kne of the worst OCs in NFL. We win in spite of him.

How can you say that?

BuffyBlueII
12-03-2012, 11:09 AM
How can you say that?Very easily because it is true.

Toadofsteel
12-03-2012, 11:10 AM
Killdrive is bipolar like so much of this team... one moment he's got the most brilliant strategies seen in football, the next he's running an offense a high school team could figure out...

Rudyy
12-03-2012, 11:11 AM
KG is probably one of the worst OCs in NFL. We win in spite of him.Eh,
I'm not the biggest Gilbride fan, but that's a little ridiculous.

ManningToJPP
12-03-2012, 11:15 AM
I will agree with the notion that he is very inconsistent.

But perhaps it may be by design?

For Example: He orchestrated the 2 worst offensive games weve seen in recent memory vs Cincy and Pitt (ironically 2 teams not in the NFC = no harm in playoff picture other than the losses) and the next game vs GB, Kevin writes a magnificent game plan and we put up 30+ on the pack,

So maybe his inconsistencies are on purpose? Probably not, but its worth take a closer look.

But besides all of that, overall KG does a good job. He will make you want to pull your teeth out some games, and others you will want to cuddle with him alllll night long.

TrickAssP
12-03-2012, 11:16 AM
If you judge the best OC in the league as the one who's O scores enough points to win super bowls, then right now in my opinion he would be rated first.

Rudyy
12-03-2012, 11:17 AM
My only problem with KG is consistency.

ManningToJPP
12-03-2012, 11:18 AM
My only problem with KG is consistency.

agreed

GameTime
12-03-2012, 11:29 AM
My only problem with KG is consistency.
consistency or results....
take your pick....

I like results......

TheAnalyst
12-03-2012, 11:31 AM
KG is probably one of the worst OCs in NFL. We win in spite of him.

Uh, I'm a huge KillDrive critic, but that is ridiculous. There are at least 2 that are worse... :-)

He is way to predictable, but if the players execute, it looks good anyway.

jakegibbs
12-03-2012, 11:31 AM
KG is probably one of the worst OCs in NFL. We win in spite of him.

Come on man... He's not close to the worst OC in the NFL. 2 SB rings since he took over the OC Job. Give him a break. How many other OC's have 2 SB rings since 2007 season? Maybe the Steelers right or wrong? I'm not saying he's the best but one of the worst????? no way Jose.

BigBlue wins
12-03-2012, 11:34 AM
It's a real head scratcher when he draws up plays designed to be a few yards shy of a first down when its 3rd down.

Kruunch
12-03-2012, 11:36 AM
Notice how many amazing OCs we have on these boards?

njg85m
12-03-2012, 11:45 AM
It's a real head scratcher when he draws up plays designed to be a few yards shy of a first down when its 3rd down.

Every single play in the playbook (excluding clock management and special teams) is designed for a touchdown FYI.

BuffyBlueII
12-03-2012, 11:49 AM
Come on man... He's not close to the worst OC in the NFL. 2 SB rings since he took over the OC Job. Give him a break. How many other OC's have 2 SB rings since 2007 season? Maybe the Steelers right or wrong? I'm not saying he's the best but one of the worst????? no way Jose.

Okay, maybe not the worst but he is not very good. He is a bad OC. Is it a coincidence that after Killdrive transitioned from QB coach to OC that Eli became a better QB?

Actually, although they are successful, Pittsburgh Steelers went out and brought in a new OC this year and it has really helped Ben Rapistfatburger out. Maybe we should bring in a new one too.

BuffyBlueII
12-03-2012, 11:54 AM
Uh, I'm a huge KillDrive critic, but that is ridiculous. There are at least 2 that are worse... :-)

He is way to predictable, but if the players execute, it looks good anyway.

I can go with that. There may be 2-4 that worse than Killdrive but that is it. Our offense executes well in spite of Killdrive.

Odd that some folks want to say we threw up stinkers on offense against Pittsburgh and Cincinatti then our offense lit up Green Bay and it is due to Killdriveís game planning. Gee, something to do with that may be because Cincinatti and Pittsburgh have very respectable defenses and Green Bay does not.

TheAnalyst
12-03-2012, 11:56 AM
Notice how many amazing OCs we have on these boards?

I just don't liek the fact I can call half of his plays before the snap. Imagine what DC's can do with all the gameplanning they do and film they study on him? When it works though, he looks great. I've been saying we need to run more quick slants and screens to the RB this year. Gilbride NEVER does. Then last game, Bradshaw on that screen pass, BOOM, 60+ yards to the 1. Defenses aren't going to be able to stop it because Gilbride never calls it. When was the last time Cruz sprinted off a slant at the snap? I dont remember once this year, and I think it would be so effective because teams have to respect his speed.

joemorrisforprez
12-03-2012, 11:57 AM
I will agree with the notion that he is very inconsistent.

But perhaps it may be by design?

For Example: He orchestrated the 2 worst offensive games weve seen in recent memory vs Cincy and Pitt (ironically 2 teams not in the NFC = no harm in playoff picture other than the losses) and the next game vs GB, Kevin writes a magnificent game plan and we put up 30+ on the pack,

So maybe his inconsistencies are on purpose? Probably not, but its worth take a closer look.

But besides all of that, overall KG does a good job. He will make you want to pull your teeth out some games, and others you will want to cuddle with him alllll night long.

I think the biggest difference in the Green Bay game was execution.....the entire team, starting with the offensive line, came out focused.

I've been a frequent critic of Gilbride, but I have to respect what he's done running the offense. I think the lion's share of the credit goes to Eli Manning, but it's still KG's system, so he deserves credit as well.

But "the best there is?"......no. The best in the business doesn't lose to a Philly team that is absolute roadkill right now.

Drez
12-03-2012, 11:58 AM
Very easily because it is true.Provide evidence of its truth, then. You're welcome to your opinion, but there are only one set of facts.

Drez
12-03-2012, 11:59 AM
I think the biggest difference in the Green Bay game was execution.....the entire team, starting with the offensive line, came out focused.

I've been a frequent critic of Gilbride, but I have to respect what he's done running the offense. I think the lion's share of the credit goes to Eli Manning, but it's still KG's system, so he deserves credit as well.

But "the best there is?"......no. The best in the business doesn't lose to a Philly team that is absolute roadkill right now.
Philly wasn't roadkill when we played them. Their defense at the time was one of the best against the pass, particular deep throws.

Rudyy
12-03-2012, 12:07 PM
consistency or results....take your pick....I like results...... Well if we play bad we are going to have poor results, if we play good we are going to have good results. Add those two together in one season and you get Kevin Gilbride's system :D

ManningToJPP
12-03-2012, 12:12 PM
Every single play in the playbook (excluding clock management and special teams) is designed for a touchdown FYI.

Lol what, bro?

I hope you are just joking around being a silly guy.

Toadofsteel
12-03-2012, 12:14 PM
Philly wasn't roadkill when we played them. Their defense at the time was one of the best against the pass, particular deep throws.

That's the thing... they built their defense to counter us, like they always do... since they're garbage, they'd rather be able to specifically beat us than win a lombardi.

That's also why Romo was able to throw all day on them. Since their pass defense is designed to stop the deep throw, they can get annihilated with slants just like us...

RoanokeFan
12-03-2012, 12:24 PM
consistency or results....
take your pick....

I like results......

+1

G-Men Surg.
12-03-2012, 12:55 PM
I have nothing but respect for KG and I do think he is one of the very best play-callers out there but still surprise to see him pulling a " Muhammad Ali " .

i

TrueBlue@NYC
12-03-2012, 01:00 PM
KG is one of the best OCs' in the game today. Ppl here knock him yet can't name 5 better OCs'.

Talk about consistency, our offense has been top 10 in the league almost every year he's been our OC. He's not perfect, but he's damn good.

RoanokeFan
12-03-2012, 01:00 PM
Why wouldn't we want everyone on the team to think they were the best at what they do?

Rudyy
12-03-2012, 01:04 PM
Why wouldn't we want everyone on the team to think they were the best at what they do?You can certainly think you're the best. That doesn't necessarily mean you are.

RoanokeFan
12-03-2012, 01:18 PM
You can certainly think you're the best. That doesn't necessarily mean you are.

Except for here on the Boards, right?

Rudyy
12-03-2012, 01:22 PM
Except for here on the Boards, right?No exceptions on the boards either.

RoanokeFan
12-03-2012, 01:27 PM
No exceptions on the boards either.

Really? Have you participated in the Game Day Thread? There are a LOT of perfect coaches in there lol

JayMas9
12-03-2012, 01:29 PM
I would love for anyone to name 5 better Offensive Coordinators in the NFL with statistical proof they are better.

ebick
12-03-2012, 01:31 PM
Why wouldn't we want everyone on the team to think they were the best at what they do?

If I think I am the best, how hard am I trying to get better? I have no problem with confidence, but this comment is not what is needed right now.

BrianK01
12-03-2012, 01:32 PM
KG is one of the best OCs' in the game today. Ppl here knock him yet can't name 5 better OCs'.

Talk about consistency, our offense has been top 10 in the league almost every year he's been our OC. He's not perfect, but he's damn good.
end/thread

BrianK01
12-03-2012, 01:34 PM
If I think I am the best, how hard am I trying to get better? I have no problem with confidence, but this comment is not what is needed right now.
A lot of people think they are the best at something BECAUSE of how hard they work at it.

Broadway Blue
12-03-2012, 01:37 PM
KG can be a football genius sometimes

TheAnalyst
12-03-2012, 01:40 PM
3rd and 1, what play is Gilbride going to call?

1- Screen to RB
2- Shotgun Draw
3- Quick Slant
4- 30 yard bomb downfield
5- Timeout because he didn't get the play to Eli quick enough

njg85m
12-03-2012, 01:41 PM
Lol what, bro?

I hope you are just joking around being a silly guy.

Uhh, no I'm not joking.
Plays are designed to be successful. The ultimate success is a touchdown. Clearly I'm going to one extreme to explain that the coaches are trying to get the most yards out of any situation regardless, but it's hard not to have to explain it that way when some people actually think that we are actiallyTRYING to only get 2 yards when we in fact need 6 for a first down.

Drez
12-03-2012, 01:41 PM
If I think I am the best, how hard am I trying to get better? Thinking you're the best is not equivalent to thinking that you are perfect and have no room for improvement.

GMan-67
12-03-2012, 01:46 PM
well there are 3 things here, obviously to get to this level a coach/coordinator has to be supremely confident ... i always prefer coaches and players to keep it to themselves, but in this day the media is always up in your grille asking where you rate yourself .... they did it to Eli, etc.

2nd, if he don't believe in his gameplan, then how can he sell it to the players and it is about gameplan, not play calling ... play calling is arbitrary and Eli always has the ability to change it .... it kills me when no nothings on this board single out one play and say WE SHOULD HAVE RAN IT THERE ... please ... it is always about EXECUTION

and finally, the NFL is a results business and the results during the Coughlin, Eli and Gilbride era have been great and you don't have great without these guys being great, so Gilbride haters, it's not too late to eat your crow and take your blinders off

YATittle1962
12-03-2012, 01:48 PM
KG is probably one of the worst OCs in NFL. We win in spite of him.

this is absolutely hilarious

TheAnalyst
12-03-2012, 01:48 PM
best at getting punched in the face on the sidelines

YATittle1962
12-03-2012, 01:50 PM
It's a real head scratcher when he draws up plays designed to be a few yards shy of a first down when its 3rd down.

do you honestly believe thats how it goes down?

if you actually believe that this is what happens I weep for humanity

njg85m
12-03-2012, 01:52 PM
do you honestly believe thats how it goes down?

if you actually believe that this is what happens I weep for humanity
+1
Exactly what I was trying to say to him

RoanokeFan
12-03-2012, 01:57 PM
do you honestly believe thats how it goes down?

if you actually believe that this is what happens I weep for humanity

LMAO

Shockeystays08
12-03-2012, 02:19 PM
KG is probably one of the worst OCs in NFL. We win in spite of him.
+1

BigBlue wins
12-03-2012, 02:30 PM
do you honestly believe thats how it goes down?

if you actually believe that this is what happens I weep for humanity

Obviously I know he doesn't design plays like that. It's the execution of those plays that hurt us time to time. It's the execution of the design I'm attacking really, not the actual design.

Wouldn't you as an OC want to design plays that can be executed fairly well, especially under stressful situations like 2 minute drills? That's my point

GameTime
12-03-2012, 02:34 PM
Obviously I know he doesn't design plays like that. It's the execution of those plays that hurt us time to time. It's the execution of the design I'm attacking really, not the actual design.

Wouldn't you as an OC want to design plays that can be executed fairly well, especially under stressful situations like 2 minute drills? That's my point
so when the plays are executed correctly and successful its the players and when the they are not its the plays or design??
Its been said the Giants O is a bit complex.....ok great. Its still not brain surgery. Obviously it works and works well.
Dont know about you but it seems the Giants offense runs the best when it is under extreme stress!! Have you watched any games since 07????

GMENAGAIN
12-03-2012, 02:35 PM
do you honestly believe thats how it goes down?

if you actually believe that this is what happens I weep for humanity

ha ha . . . . I feel your pain YA!

BigBlue wins
12-03-2012, 02:36 PM
so when the plays are executed correctly and successful its the players and when the they are not its the plays or design??
Its been said the Giants O is a bit complex.....ok great. Its still not brain surgery. Obviously it works and works well.
Dont know about you but it seems the Giants offense runs the best when it is under extreme stress!! Have you watched any games since 07????

Yes of course I have! I'm talking about the bad games because I'm criticizing Gilbride's scheme to be a bit too complex at times.

TheEnigma
12-03-2012, 02:38 PM
He's certainly good but there's a few guys I'd rank over him. Sean Payton, Josh McDaniels (crappy HC, awesome OC) Mike McCoy from Denver (anyone who gets to the playoffs with Tebow as a starting QB gets huge props lol), Maybe Chip Kelly too...These are just my personal preferences.

GameTime
12-03-2012, 02:38 PM
Yes of course I have! I'm talking about the bad games because I'm criticizing Gilbride's scheme to be a bit too complex at times.
Like I said so when its bad games its Gilbrides fault??? Not saying the guy doesnt make mistakes but bad games are way more then play designs. If his plays were so complicated and off the wall he wouldn't have a job let alone be succesfull and have 2 SBs with the Giants...

GameTime
12-03-2012, 02:40 PM
He's certainly good but there's a few guys I'd rank over him. Sean Payton, Josh McDaniels (crappy HC, awesome OC) Mike McCoy from Denver (anyone who gets to the playoffs with Tebow as a starting QB gets huge props lol), Maybe Chip Kelly too...These are just my personal preferences.
2 SBs for KG and the Giants say different....

Cloud57
12-03-2012, 02:41 PM
Oh great now we have a OC who thinks he's Rex Ryan

JayMas9
12-03-2012, 02:42 PM
do you honestly believe thats how it goes down?

if you actually believe that this is what happens I weep for humanityPerfectly said.

JayMas9
12-03-2012, 02:43 PM
Obviously I know he doesn't design plays like that. It's the execution of those plays that hurt us time to time. It's the execution of the design I'm attacking really, not the actual design.

Wouldn't you as an OC want to design plays that can be executed fairly well, especially under stressful situations like 2 minute drills? That's my pointWe're one of the best 2 min teams in the NFL...

BigBlue wins
12-03-2012, 02:45 PM
Like I said so when its bad games its Gilbrides fault??? Not saying the guy doesnt make mistakes but bad games are way more then play designs. If his plays were so complicated and off the wall he wouldn't have a job let alone be succesfull and have 2 SBs with the Giants...

It's not totally his fault for all of our bad games, but if he tried out new plays to see if the players can execute, and it doesn't go our way, can't really blame one singular group, its everyone's fault lol.

You won't know what your players can do until you test them. I'm sure some of those tests came on game day.

GameTime
12-03-2012, 02:46 PM
It's not totally his fault for all of our bad games, but if he tried out new plays to see if the players can execute, and it doesn't go our way, can't really blame one singular group, its everyone's fault lol.

You won't know what your players can do until you test them. I'm sure some of those tests came on game day.
how do you know he doesnt try new plays?? I bet the play book is always being tweaked

Rudyy
12-03-2012, 02:46 PM
Really? Have you participated in the Game Day Thread? There are a LOT of perfect coaches in their lolBut that doesn't mean they are, right?

TheEnigma
12-03-2012, 02:47 PM
2 SBs for KG and the Giants say different....

I'm not sure you can just point to Lombardis when that doesn't factor in the defense or special teams. Sean Payton has had a top 5 passing and rushing attack for years with the Saints, McDaniels was the mind behind the 2007 Pats offense. McCoy essentially took a piece of turd to the playoffs as his QB and even beat the Steelers with said turd, and Chip Kelly's Oregon offense has just been beastly recently (we'll see for sure how good he is when he goes to the NFL).

KatieCoughlin
12-03-2012, 02:48 PM
We must not discount the 2 SB's he has participated in. As well as his contribution to Eli's development.

There are many, many OC's out there who would love to have the resume of Kevin Gilbride.

BillTheGreek
12-03-2012, 02:51 PM
consistency or results....
take your pick....

I like results......

+1

Giants, Lets see Results tonight !

TextureDj
12-03-2012, 02:54 PM
Even the gripes about KG make no sense.

Is he unimaginative and predictable, or is he drawing up off the wall plays when simplicity is whats called for. And dont tell me he is doing both at the wrong time, save yourselves from looking even worse in this debate.

RoanokeFan
12-03-2012, 02:57 PM
But that doesn't mean they are, right?

They believe they are infallible

RoanokeFan
12-03-2012, 02:57 PM
Even the gripes about KG make no sense.

Is he unimaginative and predictable, or is he drawing up off the wall plays when simplicity is whats called for. And dont tell me he is doing both at the wrong time, save yourselves from looking even worse in this debate.

That's not possible lol

Razur
12-03-2012, 02:57 PM
Gilbride is just setting up his resume for another HC job somewhere. We don't have to agree with this statement, as it was intended for a GM or owner looking for a new HC to hire. We should be more concerned about if he leaves, who we wind up with.

BuffyBlueII
12-03-2012, 03:05 PM
Well if KG is the best OC because he has 2 Rings, does that mean tha. BJ is the best RB?

BigBlue wins
12-03-2012, 03:08 PM
Well if KG is the best OC because he has 2 Rings, does that mean tha. BJ is the best RB?

No, but he has the best initials

rcrane
12-03-2012, 03:26 PM
Sometimes when a play is so predictable.. its not predictable. Ever play rocks paper scissors?

BrianK01
12-03-2012, 03:55 PM
We must not discount the 2 SB's he has participated in. As well as his contribution to Eli's development.

There are many, many OC's out there who would love to have the resume of Kevin Gilbride.
Well said

TrueBlue@NYC
12-03-2012, 04:26 PM
He's certainly good but there's a few guys I'd rank over him. Sean Payton, Josh McDaniels (crappy HC, awesome OC) Mike McCoy from Denver (anyone who gets to the playoffs with Tebow as a starting QB gets huge props lol), Maybe Chip Kelly too...These are just my personal preferences.

Except Sean Payton isn't an OC, he's a Head Coach and Josh McDaniels hasn't had as much sustained success as KG.

Mike McCoy in DEN has been brilliant the past two seasons.

ELI_HOF_NYG
12-03-2012, 05:39 PM
Very easily because it is true.

can you back that with stats or some info that supports your claim? because he will back his with 8 playoff wins and 2 super bowl rings.

BuffyBlueII
12-03-2012, 05:57 PM
can you back that with stats or some info that supports your claim? because he will back his with 8 playoff wins and 2 super bowl rings.According to your argument, Brandon Jacobs is h best RB because he has 2 Rings. Our offense is one of the most predictable in NFL. We win in spite of KG. The guy is a horrible coach and coordinator. No surprise that when KG stopped being the QB coach and took the OC job that Eli Manning became a better QB.

Drez
12-03-2012, 06:22 PM
According to your argument, Brandon Jacobs is h best RB because he has 2 Rings. Our offense is one of the most predictable in NFL. We win in spite of KG. The guy is a horrible coach and coordinator. No surprise that when KG stopped being the QB coach and took the OC job that Eli Manning became a better QB.Yet, we've had a top 10 offense every year since he's been the OC. Strange.

BuffyBlueII
12-03-2012, 06:25 PM
Yet, we've had a top 10 offense every year since he's been the OC. Strange.With the personnel we have had it is not so strange.

TheEnigma
12-03-2012, 06:31 PM
KG is brilliant with the vertical passing game and utilizing the WR talent we've acquired at this point but I do feel he leans a little too much on a vanilla power run game that can be quite unimaginative at times. I've noticed he gets a little too cozy with running in one particular area (ie right tackle or edge) even when the opposing defense shows that it can stop us there multiple times. That and he's a little shotgun draw happy but that's about all I can gripe about on a legit basis.

Imgrate
12-03-2012, 07:47 PM
Atleast he has a sense of humor

Drez
12-03-2012, 07:57 PM
With the personnel we have had it is not so strange.
Take a look at the personnel Philly has.

Take a look at how they've performed.

The "wins in spite of KG" argument is utterly ridiculous at best.

Drez
12-03-2012, 08:00 PM
KG is brilliant with the vertical passing game and utilizing the WR talent we've acquired at this point but I do feel he leans a little too much on a vanilla power run game that can be quite unimaginative at times. I've noticed he gets a little too cozy with running in one particular area (ie right tackle or edge) even when the opposing defense shows that it can stop us there multiple times. That and he's a little shotgun draw happy but that's about all I can gripe about on a legit basis.
Do you think that is more a reflection of him as a playcaller or the limitations of our offense, particularly the OL? I lean more towards the former rather than the latter.

Of course he isn't perfect... No OC is. I'm sure even the fans of the other high powered offenses around the NFL can find things to gripe about about their respective OCs.

TheEnigma
12-03-2012, 08:24 PM
Do you think that is more a reflection of him as a playcaller or the limitations of our offense, particularly the OL? I lean more towards the former rather than the latter.

Of course he isn't perfect... No OC is. I'm sure even the fans of the other high powered offenses around the NFL can find things to gripe about about their respective OCs.

I recall the first quarter of the last Cowboys game he tried to run on Locklear's side majority of the time and didn't net much as a result. We went to Beatty's side twice and had over a 6 yard average. After a certain point, an OC needs to recognize when something isn't working. Not the biggest gripe in the world but he isn't perfect because of "2 SBs lol" like some would argue. Just trying to give an unbiased view on him.

Tmurda1984
12-03-2012, 09:14 PM
Gilbride is the best there is. Its amazing how much heat this guy takes. He has one of the best schemes in the game...and for the last several years we had one of the most explosive offenses in the NFL whether throwing it or running it. Imagine if we had a decent GM, who did allow guys like Doug Martin to get away from us or a GM that actually cared about protecting Eli. Gilbride also makes sure he helps his struggling offensive line out with backs blocking and the HB draw. Dude is amazing.

Imgrate
12-03-2012, 09:21 PM
The best OC in the game gets interviewed for hc jobs. gilbride gets no such offers

Harooni
12-03-2012, 11:45 PM
When he called a draw or screen on 3rd and 20. game over

BigBlueAllDay
12-03-2012, 11:46 PM
Punting while behind with less than 4 minutes to go and RG3 toying with the defense all night. They had no chance even with the timeouts.

Giantterp
12-03-2012, 11:46 PM
I agree but not for that play. Attack the defense's weakness. That's their passing d.

nycisgreat
12-03-2012, 11:47 PM
When he called a draw on 3rd and 20. game over

Agreed. He says that is the best OC in the game. The guy is trash. If he didn't have Eli, his horrible play calling would be more evident. I am pretty sure that is why with all his success here as a NYG he doesn't get offered a HC job.

jax5338
12-03-2012, 11:47 PM
Beatty penalty was brutal

they ran wayy too much when Eli was getting in rythm

BigBlue1971
12-03-2012, 11:47 PM
Gilbride did play an intergral part in this loss. he stopped passing the ball

Harooni
12-03-2012, 11:49 PM
Agreed. He says that is the best OC in the game. The guy is trash. If he didn't have Eli, his horrible play calling would be more evident. I am pretty sure that is why with all his success here as a NYG he doesn't get offered a HC job. to me that is a pure i give up call . unreal

Rudyy
12-03-2012, 11:49 PM
Why does everyone act like a coach on these boards? It was a brilliant game plan, we just once again did not execute with 390 yards of total offense.

Harooni
12-03-2012, 11:51 PM
Why does everyone act like a coach on these boards? It was a brilliant game plan, we just once again did not execute with 390 yards of total offense.

i feel like im taking crazy pills rudy!!! i know gilbride has had success but these type of play calls don't baffle the rest of the fans here???

Harooni
12-03-2012, 11:53 PM
Beatty penalty was brutal

they ran wayy too much when Eli was getting in rythm agreed, eli was getting hot and you start running. what foolish calls i saw that 2nd half.

egyptian420
12-03-2012, 11:53 PM
i feel like im taking crazy pills rudy!!! i know gilbride has had success but these type of play calls don't baffle the rest of the fans here???they sure do, but you know what baffles and infuriates the HECK outta me even more? NON STOP PENALTIES ALL GAME!!! That's all on the players

Drez
12-03-2012, 11:54 PM
When he called a draw on 3rd and 20. game over
That was a screen, not a draw. Do you know if that play was checked into?

Also, I think a drive killing penalty that preceded that play or a ****ty snap that led to a missed FG could also be more culpable.

Harooni
12-03-2012, 11:57 PM
they sure do, but you know what baffles and infuriates the HECK outta me even more? NON STOP PENALTIES ALL GAME!!! That's all on the players
thats true more discipline the refs were calling a lot of things tonight though.

GMENAGAIN
12-04-2012, 12:01 AM
When he called a draw on 3rd and 20. game over

How do you know that he called that, as opposed to Eli checking into that play.

No way he called that. That was Eli's call.

gmen0820
12-04-2012, 12:02 AM
Oh my ****ing god. That's not a bad call. Most OCs call that play in that situation. You take what the defense gives you, especially when your OL can't block for ****. What do you guys want, a five receiver set and a QB on IR, or a two man route that is easily contained with 6 or 7 under? You take the draw and if it doesn't work, try to play defense with 4 minutes. This isn't madden where 3rd and 20 you can run your whole playbook; there isn't much in reality that you can run in that down and distance. ****ing Ravens won by throwing a screen on 4th and 27. Colts won with Luck throwing a 3 yard dumpoff. When a defense calls a play to specifically keep you from getting 20+ yards or whatever it is you need, your chances of executing the play where you try to get it all is AT BEST equally as low as throwing a screen or running a draw. Now take your coaches cap off, wipe your tears, and go to bed.

Drez
12-04-2012, 12:04 AM
Oh my ****ing god. That's not a bad call. Most OCs call that play in that situation. You take what the defense gives you, especially when your OL can't block for ****. What do you guys want, a five receiver set and a QB on IR, or a two man route that is easily contained with 6 or 7 under? You take the draw and if it doesn't work, try to play defense with 4 minutes. This isn't madden where 3rd and 20 you can run your whole playbook; there isn't much in reality that you can run in that down and distance. ****ing Ravens won by throwing a screen on 4th and 27. Colts won with Luck throwing a 3 yard dumpoff. When a defense calls a play to specifically keep you from getting 20+ yards or whatever it is you need, your chances of executing the play where you try to get it all is AT BEST equally as low as throwing a screen or running a draw. Now take your coaches cap off, wipe your tears, and go to bed.

These types of threads are generally why I try avoiding the forums for a day or two after a loss. Every idiot and their mother is on talking ******ed ****.

Harooni
12-04-2012, 12:04 AM
Oh my ****ing god. That's not a bad call. Most OCs call that play in that situation. You take what the defense gives you, especially when your OL can't block for ****. What do you guys want, a five receiver set and a QB on IR, or a two man route that is easily contained with 6 or 7 under? You take the draw and if it doesn't work, try to play defense with 4 minutes. This isn't madden where 3rd and 20 you can run your whole playbook; there isn't much in reality that you can run in that down and distance. ****ing Ravens won by throwing a screen on 4th and 27. Colts won with Luck throwing a 3 yard dumpoff. When a defense calls a play to specifically keep you from getting 20+ yards or whatever it is you need, your chances of executing the play where you try to get it all is AT BEST equally as low as throwing a screen or running a draw. Now take your coaches cap off, wipe your tears, and go to bed.

draw or screen is a give up play when your down with 4 min left in the game, im sorry.

FUUFNF
12-04-2012, 12:05 AM
29 rushes against the 2nd worst pass defense in the NFL... That's brilliant.

Drez
12-04-2012, 12:06 AM
29 rushes against the 2nd worst pass defense in the NFL... That's brilliant.
Were you complaining when we were gashing them in the first half?

Harooni
12-04-2012, 12:07 AM
29 rushes against the 2nd worst pass defense in the NFL... That's brilliant. you sir get it.

drez you know im not a dumbo poster and im not a big homer or anything that goes crazy after a loss. but come on that was a total give up call if i ever saw one.

Marvelousmik
12-04-2012, 12:07 AM
i feel like im taking crazy pills rudy!!! i know gilbride has had success but these type of play calls don't baffle the rest of the fans here???

I am not saying KG called a great game, but i just want to point out that eli changed the play a few times resulting in the shotgun draw to bradshaw. the screen to bradshaw on 3rd and long wasnt the best call. But eli audibled to a good number of runs today. I take it those run calls were the main cause of your frustration

Harooni
12-04-2012, 12:08 AM
Were you complaining when we were gashing them in the first half? drez you dont call the same things you would when you have 4min left and trailing. you dont make those safe calls anymore.

Drez
12-04-2012, 12:09 AM
you sir get it.

drez you know im not a dumbo poster and im not a big homer or anything that goes crazy after a loss. but come on that was a total give up call if i ever saw one.
Then you should realize that there aren't any good plays for 3rd and 20. What I think that call was was let's see if we can catch them sleeping and get 12-15 yards and go for it on 4th down. Unfortunately, they read the screen and blew the play up.

Drez
12-04-2012, 12:10 AM
drez you dont call the same things you would when you have 4min left and trailing. you dont make those safe calls anymore.
See my response above.

mike kennedy
12-04-2012, 12:10 AM
Were you complaining when we were gashing them in the first half?

Of we were thrashing them in the first half! How many points did we score in that half? 38?

BlueReign
12-04-2012, 12:11 AM
Then you should realize that there aren't any good plays for 3rd and 20. What I think that call was was let's see if we can catch them sleeping and get 12-15 yards and go for it on 4th down. Unfortunately, they read the screen and blew the play up.
I agree with you on this, but it should've never come to having to hinge on this call. The Skins DBs were getting eaten up all night and we just stopped.

Harooni
12-04-2012, 12:11 AM
Then you should realize that there aren't any good plays for 3rd and 20. What I think that call was was let's see if we can catch them sleeping and get 12-15 yards and go for it on 4th down. Unfortunately, they read the screen and blew the play up. maybe but its way to conservative for the situation. and also going more to the run while Eli was hot. im not saying fire gilbride he is the worst but that one call ended the game basically.

Rudyy
12-04-2012, 12:11 AM
Why do people get upset when we criticize our coaches?
Good heavens it's not like we are throwing them into a pit of fire, there were some questionable play calls.

nycsportzfan
12-04-2012, 12:12 AM
I agree but not for that play. Attack the defense's weakness. That's their passing d. agreed.. When he had those 2possesions where he ran on 1st and 2nd down and then left us in 3rd and long and then came back and ran on 1st and 2nd down again, but we got saved on a 3rd down penalty, i thought i was gonna puke..

When the announcers are pointing out that the skins pass defense is pathetic, and the giants keep trying to go at the skins strength, which makes no sense, u know its bad...

Total Kill
12-04-2012, 12:12 AM
agreed, eli was getting hot and you start running. what foolish calls i saw that 2nd half.

+1

mike kennedy
12-04-2012, 12:12 AM
When he called a draw or screen on 3rd and 20. game over

Even Trent Dilfer said the Giants got lazy in the Red Zone!

giantsforce
12-04-2012, 12:13 AM
Why does everyone act like a coach on these boards? It was a brilliant game plan, we just once again did not execute with 390 yards of total offense.

Don't you know? It is all about execution and never coaching. After all this coaching staff gave us 2 SB's

Drez
12-04-2012, 12:13 AM
I agree with you on this, but it should've never come to having to hinge on this call. The Skins DBs were getting eaten up all night and we just stopped.
And our pass protection wasn't nearly as good in the second half. Figuring that the Skins would have continued to be aggressive with the rush, a screen could have worked just as well there as trying something deep, especially if you think that we might have gone for it on 4th and under 8.

nycsportzfan
12-04-2012, 12:14 AM
Why do people get upset when we criticize our coaches?
Good heavens it's not like we are throwing them into a pit of fire, there were some questionable play calls. agreed.. Like as fans, were supposed to agree with everything and never disguss what we don't agree with.lol I mean, jesus were fans, not Gilbrides wife!!!lol Get a clue!

Harooni
12-04-2012, 12:14 AM
Gilbride has had proven success but lets face it we won superbowls because we held the pats to under 18 points. thats how we won them both!! go rewind the tapes and have a look at the first 3 quarters of offense. Gilbride has had the benefit of a good d that forces turnovers

Drez
12-04-2012, 12:14 AM
maybe but its way to conservative for the situation. and also going more to the run while Eli was hot. im not saying fire gilbride he is the worst but that one call ended the game basically.
The penalty before that call ended the game more than that call.

ImElectric2
12-04-2012, 12:14 AM
Screen pass on 3rd and 20 despite just missing Nicks and Cruz on 2 deep balls. Horrendous call. Run, run, pass the possession prior. Terrible calls. I dunno that it falls solely on Gilbride, but he certainly didn't put us in good position.

Rudyy
12-04-2012, 12:15 AM
agreed.. Like as fans, were supposed to agree with everything and never disguss what we don't agree with.lol I mean, jesus were fans, not Gilbrides wife!!!lol Get a clue!I swear some people on here are such coach homers it drives me insane.

giant-4-life
12-04-2012, 12:15 AM
Kevin Gilbride, I have been saying has used up his worthiness here with us. He has no more tricks in the bag and we need a new OC for next season with fresh plays, strong convictions to keep drives alive and be an all around OC. as much as I dislike the Pats, they have the necessary combo to play great every season.

their players play great all the time, the coaches are hardcore. Steelers are the same. They have both great organizations that perform.

our OC and DC are used up. when teams know what we are going to do, THAT's the issue. I see the team not trusting this coaching staff at all. boley is a great player and he gave up. that speaks volumes.

enjoy the crow coaches, need some collard greens or BBQ sauce to go with your crappy performances?

nycsportzfan
12-04-2012, 12:15 AM
And our pass protection wasn't nearly as good in the second half. Figuring that the Skins would have continued to be aggressive with the rush, a screen could have worked just as well there as trying something deep, especially if you think that we might have gone for it on 4th and under 8. ya well, when u run on 1st and 2nd down, and get nothing, kinda easy to guess whats coming, ya know? It was terrible playcalling, and Gruden called out the giants for running to much and not picking on that pathetic secondary more himself..

BlueRage
12-04-2012, 12:15 AM
A couple of times this year the screen or the handoff has worked for us in similar situations, but the problem with this team at times is that they like to go back to the same well too often. Gets a little predictable after a while.

giantsforce
12-04-2012, 12:16 AM
Even Trent Dilfer said the Giants got lazy in the Red Zone!And Steve Young said the Giants were very sloppy and they were not playing Giants football. And of course Coughlin said he was "disappointed". I guess TC does not get embarrassed like we do.

calzonesays
12-04-2012, 12:16 AM
http://i47.tinypic.com/wqox8o.jpg

myles2424
12-04-2012, 12:16 AM
But,but,but, but Gilbrides play calling got us two rings.....<---RED ....no, it didn't....Eli & co did......except it, Gilbrides crap calling has been bailed out by Eli a million times....

Diamondring
12-04-2012, 12:16 AM
Gilbride has had proven success but lets face it we won superbowls because we held the pats to under 18 points. thats how we won them both!! go rewind the tapes and have a look at the first 3 quarters of offense. Gilbride has had the benefit of a good d that forces turnoversYeah but how about the Pats though. Posters never look at the Pats. They have a higher scoring offense so why their OC didn't do better? You said Gilbride benefitted with the defense like he is weak and all but you have to look at the opposition as well.

nycsportzfan
12-04-2012, 12:17 AM
I swear some people on here are such coach homers it drives me insane. Theres a reason for everything.. U can't say Mario's better then Hixon, u can't disagree with a coaching decison, u can't talk about a 1st rd player whos been a bust this yr, and everything comes back 2, we won 2SB's in 5yrs..lol

U should come 2 the draft thread, we talk about giants in there good and bad.. Not just homerism, honest compliments on what we like and good dicscussion on what we don't.. Its probably the only place u can find that on here...

Cloud57
12-04-2012, 12:17 AM
I guess he thinks Bradshaw is Ray Rice

Drez
12-04-2012, 12:17 AM
ya well, when u run on 1st and 2nd down, and get nothing, kinda easy to guess whats coming, ya know? It was terrible playcalling, and Gruden called out the giants for running to much and not picking on that pathetic secondary more himself..
I'm not saying his playcalling was perfect, but to say that that one play, or Gilbride in general, cost us the game is a ridiculous statement. We committed a ton of penalties, and that more than anything cost us the game.

giantsforce
12-04-2012, 12:19 AM
Gilbride has had proven success but lets face it we won superbowls because we held the pats to under 18 points. thats how we won them both!! go rewind the tapes and have a look at the first 3 quarters of offense. Gilbride has had the benefit of a good d that forces turnoversAll I have to say about Killdrive is that Buddy Ryan was right punching him.

GiveWilsonDBall
12-04-2012, 12:19 AM
Every kickoff had us re-placed as deeply in our own end as they could, especially the late Wilson return that could surely have made a difference.in the game, and the holding penalty in he fourth quarter??? No sour grapes, we did not play well, but those flags just seemed to come in too perfectly to set us back just at the right (wrong) time.

There is holding and blocking in the back on every kickoff, and there is holding on virtually every play. Amazing how it was only us doing it 95% of the time tonight and precisely at the very worst times!

Drez
12-04-2012, 12:19 AM
All I have to say about Killdrive is that Buddy Ryan was right punching him.
The last defense of the moron.

nycisgreat
12-04-2012, 12:19 AM
KG needs a new job. I hope he goes next season, but that probably will not happen while TC is here. No one wants the guy.

nycisgreat
12-04-2012, 12:20 AM
The last defense of the moron.

Lmao

hungrrrry
12-04-2012, 12:20 AM
There are so many times when I wish we had a top ten pair of coordinators....Fewell is more garbage than Gilbride but Gilbride does try for the title often but Special teams really hurt us today

nycsportzfan
12-04-2012, 12:20 AM
And Steve Young said the Giants were very sloppy and they were not playing Giants football. And of course Coughlin said he was "disappointed". I guess TC does not get embarrassed like we do. The giants are a lazy team. I swear OSI and TUCK are huge plagues.. They lead by example, and when u come out only when ur backs truly at the wall(it will catch up 2 us), then other players follow.. Shoot, JPP all ready seems to be falling into it.. That guys motor was insane the past couple yrs, now u see em , and he just dosen't have that same tenacity play in and play out...

giantsforce
12-04-2012, 12:21 AM
I'm not saying his playcalling was perfect, but to say that that one play, or Gilbride in general, cost us the game is a ridiculous statement. We committed a ton of penalties, and that more than anything cost us the game.Yeah, because the play calling of Run, Run, Pass, Kick worked fine! We kept the ball 7 more minutes than the Skins and all we had to show for is 16 points. I really liked the brilliant call on 3rd and 20! Just can see Coughlin and Killdrive saying to each other: Let's give up!

mike kennedy
12-04-2012, 12:22 AM
The guy is Pathetic!

Cloud57
12-04-2012, 12:22 AM
The giants are a lazy team. I swear OSI and TUCK are huge plagues.. They lead by example, and when u come out only when ur backs truly at the wall(it will catch up 2 us), then other players follow.. Shoot, JPP all ready seems to be falling into it.. That guys motor was insane the past couple yrs, now u see em , and he just dosen't have that same tenacity play in and play out...Tuck is lazy, the way he looks, talks and play

Giant stuck in Texas
12-04-2012, 12:23 AM
29 rushes against the 2nd worst pass defense in the NFL... That's brilliant.

^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Rudyy
12-04-2012, 12:24 AM
I'm not saying his playcalling was perfect, but to say that that one play, or Gilbride in general, cost us the game is a ridiculous statement. We committed a ton of penalties, and that more than anything cost us the game.This is the problem I have

Why do we look flat one week and hot the other week, then back to being flat. We can barely win 2 games in a row with this game being on the line.
I don't believe that the players all forgot how to execute. That seems silly don't you think? I'm not blaming them for the entire game, but there were parts of this game where you really thought "Wow, why would call that play there?"

nycsportzfan
12-04-2012, 12:24 AM
I'm not saying his playcalling was perfect, but to say that that one play, or Gilbride in general, cost us the game is a ridiculous statement. We committed a ton of penalties, and that more than anything cost us the game. oh agreed.. Missing a FG, stupid penalties, ELI missing Nicks and Cruz deep in 1st half, and redzone offense were huge reasons why we lost..

But my point is u have to use ur strengths.. When the giants come out and really let eli just throw his arm off, there more dangerous then when they try and be balanced.. They run better when the pass games working, and not vice versa.. Meaning, our pass offense opens up our rushing more then the other way around..

Again, we finished last in the laegue in rushing last yr.. We also don't have a AP or Arian Foster.. We have a decent RB , but awesome Wideouts and awesome QB.. It should be 3-1 in favor of pass every s Quarter, unless the pass did its job and u mix in a few moe timely runs because u scared the bejesus outta em with the pass and there dropping ex guys into coverege...

giantsforce
12-04-2012, 12:26 AM
Theres a reason for everything.. U can't say Mario's better then Hixon, u can't disagree with a coaching decison, u can't talk about a 1st rd player whos been a bust this yr, and everything comes back 2, we won 2SB's in 5yrs..lol

U should come 2 the draft thread, we talk about giants in there good and bad.. Not just homerism, honest compliments on what we like and good dicscussion on what we don't.. Its probably the only place u can find that on here...I am sure the homers will be here tomorrow to tell us why this was a good thing and that a miracle will happen like last year. Well, let's leave them with their dreams, because reality will be too painful for them.

TheAnalyst
12-04-2012, 12:26 AM
Does Gilbride know that the skins suck at stopping the pass, and are good at stopping the run? The one game Gilbride wants to run over and over is this game? Really? Ok, I'm in. Fire Gilbride.

GMenOnDeck
12-04-2012, 12:27 AM
Terrible at Adjusting to adjustments

Diamondring
12-04-2012, 12:28 AM
No no no, Giants have been winning team for some time. We also have a harder division than the Pats. Jets were the only team that gave them problems and I mean GAVE them problems.

nycisgreat
12-04-2012, 12:28 AM
There are so many times when I wish we had a top ten pair of coordinators....Fewell is more garbage than Gilbride but Gilbride does try for the title often but Special teams really hurt us today

I believe both guys are playing with a full deck. The talent on this team make they look like geniuses sometimes.

giantsforce
12-04-2012, 12:29 AM
oh agreed.. Missing a FG, stupid penalties, ELI missing Nicks and Cruz deep in 1st half, and redzone offense were huge reasons why we lost..

But my point is u have to use ur strengths.. When the giants come out and really let eli just throw his arm off, there more dangerous then when they try and be balanced.. They run better when the pass games working, and not vice versa.. Meaning, our pass offense opens up our rushing more then the other way around..

Again, we finished last in the laegue in rushing last yr.. We also don't have a AP or Arian Foster.. We have a decent RB , but awesome Wideouts and awesome QB.. It should be 3-1 in favor of pass every s Quarter, unless the pass did its job and u mix in a few moe timely runs because u scared the bejesus outta em with the pass and there dropping ex guys into coverege...Also, they could not cover Bennett in the middle because they were doubling on Cruz and Nicks, but Killdrive was too stupid to take advantage of this. Even Bear Pascoe burned them. Oh, well, TC is the best coach and we have the best OC and DC in the NFL, it is just the darn players who cannot execute the brilliant Run, Run, Pass, Kick game plan.

Drez
12-04-2012, 12:30 AM
oh agreed.. Missing a FG, stupid penalties, ELI missing Nicks and Cruz deep in 1st half, and redzone offense were huge reasons why we lost..

But my point is u have to use ur strengths.. When the giants come out and really let eli just throw his arm off, there more dangerous then when they try and be balanced.. They run better when the pass games working, and not vice versa.. Meaning, our pass offense opens up our rushing more then the other way around..

Again, we finished last in the laegue in rushing last yr.. We also don't have a AP or Arian Foster.. We have a decent RB , but awesome Wideouts and awesome QB.. It should be 3-1 in favor of pass every s Quarter, unless the pass did its job and u mix in a few moe timely runs because u scared the bejesus outta em with the pass and there dropping ex guys into coverege...
I can't say I necessarily disagree with all that, especially after the OL just wasn't opening holes in the second half. However, we still don't know how many of those runs Eli checked into, and I'd still say the biggest bugaboo of the game were the penalties. The play calling may have been just ok, but we could have been in a much better position without the penalties.

Diamondring
12-04-2012, 12:33 AM
He called the play as a give up.

radar-ray
12-04-2012, 12:33 AM
Every kickoff had us re-placed as deeply in our own end as they could, especially the late Wilson return that could surely have made a difference.in the game, and the holding penalty in he fourth quarter??? No sour grapes, we did not play well, but those flags just seemed to come in too perfectly to set us back just at the right (wrong) time.

There is holding and blocking in the back on every kickoff, and there is holding on virtually every play. Amazing how it was only us doing it 95% of the time tonight and precisely at the very worst times! I totally agree. The Skins were holding like crazy.

nycsportzfan
12-04-2012, 12:35 AM
Every kickoff had us re-placed as deeply in our own end as they could, especially the late Wilson return that could surely have made a difference.in the game, and the holding penalty in he fourth quarter??? No sour grapes, we did not play well, but those flags just seemed to come in too perfectly to set us back just at the right (wrong) time.

There is holding and blocking in the back on every kickoff, and there is holding on virtually every play. Amazing how it was only us doing it 95% of the time tonight and precisely at the very worst times! Coincidence the spread was Giants -1??lol

BMW
12-04-2012, 12:36 AM
This was one of the worst officiated games ever, no one will call out the refs from the media though of course.

Harooni
12-04-2012, 12:36 AM
Does Gilbride know that the skins suck at stopping the pass, and are good at stopping the run? The one game Gilbride wants to run over and over is this game? Really? Ok, I'm in. Fire Gilbride. its crazy right. ok first half run run fine. but now the game is on the line you get more aggresive you know eli thrives off that 2 min drill rush.

how can we blame the players when we see they were all playing well and not turning the ball over.

nycsportzfan
12-04-2012, 12:37 AM
thats one huge problem in sports, u pay the refs next to nothing and there in positon to easily turn a game the way they want.. obviously i'm not saying this was a fix..lol, but i will gurantee theres alot of that going on every wk...

Marvelousmik
12-04-2012, 12:38 AM
I can't say I necessarily disagree with all that, especially after the OL just wasn't opening holes in the second half. However, we still don't know how many of those runs Eli checked into, and I'd still say the biggest bugaboo of the game were the penalties. The play calling may have been just ok, but we could have been in a much better position without the penalties.

Eli checked into at least 3 of those runs. You could see he was changing the plays at the line almost all game.

nycsportzfan
12-04-2012, 12:39 AM
90pct of the coutnry bet on the giants tonight, and coincidently the penalties were more then double our way and in the worst times??lol Ya, that is fishy..

Harooni
12-04-2012, 12:43 AM
90pct of the coutnry bet on the giants tonight, and coincidently the penalties were more then double our way and in the worst times??lol Ya, that is fishy.. the line was skins +2 and we got that phantom off PI. and some other calls also. hardly fixed.

Ballllinnnnnnn
12-04-2012, 12:46 AM
Even if gils plays were good we committed penalties to make sure we sucked.

Rudyy
12-04-2012, 12:50 AM
i feel like im taking crazy pills rudy!!! i know gilbride has had success but these type of play calls don't baffle the rest of the fans here???Sarcasm my friend

Harooni
12-04-2012, 12:51 AM
Sarcasm my friend i know , i was talking about the gilbride defenders lol just in general kinda of

Rudyy
12-04-2012, 12:52 AM
i know , i was talking about the gilbride defenders lol just in general kinda ofOoooopsz

joemorrisforprez
12-04-2012, 12:53 AM
When he called a draw or screen on 3rd and 20. game over

You didn't get his memo......he's the "best out there."

Harooni
12-04-2012, 12:53 AM
You didn't get his memo......he's the "best out there." oh excuse me lol . someone slip him the memo that his mustache went out in the early 80's.

Harooni
12-04-2012, 12:54 AM
Ooooopsz its cool the way i worded it could look like aimed at what you said. but i know your stance since the last month or so.

joemorrisforprez
12-04-2012, 12:55 AM
http://www.giants101.com/2012/12/03/new-york-giants-kevin-gilbride-i-think-iím-the-best-there-is/


Hey guys,

Say what you want about my main man Kevin, but he is my boy for life. He proves the doubters wrong when it counts, and throws in a vanilla gameplan to keep other teams off balance. He is almost as cool as Martellus Bennet.

If that was "the best there is", I'd hate to see the worst.

bearbryant
12-04-2012, 12:57 AM
Not only kildrives calls but the Giants were not prepared to play for 60 minutes. Go ask our defense in the final quarter. They'll tell ya!

Harooni
12-04-2012, 12:59 AM
If that was "the best there is", I'd hate to see the worst. omg he really thinks he is the greastest OC in the game. then why did he just get out dueled by shananhans little sprog???

Rudyy
12-04-2012, 12:59 AM
its cool the way i worded it could look like aimed at what you said. but i know your stance since the last month or so.Well apparently I shouldnt say anything because the coaches have 2 sb rings and they are Gods. Let's be serious; we were 9-7 last year, we werent some power house team. I dont like stats but I hate it when people use that argument. Sorry for the rant haha.

giantsforce
12-04-2012, 01:00 AM
My only problem with KG is consistency.SO are you saying that he is consistent or inconsistent? I think he is consistent in his play calling: Run, Run, Pass, Kick. Very consistent and very predictable. If it wasn't for Eli, Killdrive would have been run out of town by now. Why do you think he had no offers from any other teams so far?

Harooni
12-04-2012, 01:01 AM
Well apparently I shouldnt say anything because the coaches have 2 sb rings and they are Gods. Let's be serious; we were 9-7 last year, we werent some power house team. I dont like stats but I hate it when people use that argument. Sorry for the rant haha. fortunate would be the right word here. we somehow pull wins out of our #####. Not sure how we do it but its crazy. and then they think they are all geniuses and keep with the same crappy game plans.

Rudyy
12-04-2012, 01:02 AM
SO are you saying that he is consistent or inconsistent? I think he is consistent in his play calling: Run, Run, Pass, Kick. Very consistent and very predictable. If it wasn't for Eli, Killdrive would have been run out of town by now. Why do you think he had no offers from any other teams so far?He's consistent at being inconsistent.

gmen0820
12-04-2012, 01:09 AM
draw or screen is a give up play when your down with 4 min left in the game, im sorry.Yeah have Eli force a ball into excellent coverage/congested zones so you can ***** and moan about it for weeks. "You had Bradshaw in the flat, let him make a play!!!!"

FUUFNF
12-04-2012, 01:25 AM
I'm guessing we rush 40 times next week against the league worst passing defense.

Harooni
12-04-2012, 01:25 AM
Yeah have Eli force a ball into excellent coverage/congested zones so you can ***** and moan about it for weeks. "You had Bradshaw in the flat, let him make a play!!!!" come on eli was running hot and who else is better with his back against the wall at least take 2 shots dont give up the game that is scared play calling!!

gmen0820
12-04-2012, 01:29 AM
come on eli was running hot and who else is better with his back against the wall at least take 2 shots dont give up the game that is scared play calling!!So now we go on it on fourth down? Damn Gilbride shoulda known we were in four down territory with a little under five minutes in Redskins territory!Harooni, Eli-hot or not-has no greater chance of a first down in that situation if he guns it into coverage rather than dumping it off and hoping for a well executed team of blocks. The only difference is that the aggressive choice is much flashier.

Eliscruzzz
12-04-2012, 01:31 AM
I can only pray that Boston College takes this guy next year. It just time for him to go. Eli needs new plays and a new system. This one is either to risky or to conservative and that leads to inconsistent play. Boston College please make that offer to KG....

Harooni
12-04-2012, 01:34 AM
So now we go on it on fourth down? Damn Gilbride shoulda known we were in four down territory with a little under five minutes in Redskins territory!Harooni, Eli-hot or not-has no greater chance of a first down in that situation if he guns it into coverage rather than dumping it off and hoping for a well executed team of blocks. The only difference is that the aggressive choice is much flashier. it was all night with the third down short play calls way to conservative. everybody and their mama knew we weren't getting the ball back. i mean everyone knew it.

Eliscruzzz
12-04-2012, 01:34 AM
So now we go on it on fourth down? Damn Gilbride shoulda known we were in four down territory with a little under five minutes in Redskins territory!Harooni, Eli-hot or not-has no greater chance of a first down in that situation if he guns it into coverage rather than dumping it off and hoping for a well executed team of blocks. The only difference is that the aggressive choice is much flashier.Dude Bradshaw is not Ray Rice he wasn't going to get that first down and why not go with a pass for 10 yards and see if Nicks or Cruz can pick up some yards after catch and make the 4th down managable. Yes the players did not execute well but some of the play calls were like wtf???

Harooni
12-04-2012, 01:38 AM
wth??? i could have sworn i started this thread??? aliens???

gmen0820
12-04-2012, 01:40 AM
Dude Bradshaw is not Ray Rice So the Ravens play call was acceptable because Ray Rice is on another level? Yeah you're right, Gimpy Nicks or Dropsy Cruz -- with ALL the defensive eyes on them -- are picking it up. I love how now we are talking about going on fourth down, there was 4+ minutes left and we are in Redskins territory, that was probably NEVER considered. If we were that freaking desperate, we take the running into the punter penalty, go for it on 4th-10/11, and probably not convert. Then we are all crying because we didn't trust the defense.

gmen0820
12-04-2012, 01:41 AM
it was all night with the third down short play calls way to conservative. everybody and their mama knew we weren't getting the ball back. i mean everyone knew it.No coach is going for it when they are in Redskins territory, over 4 minutes, and they have 2 timeouts and are down one point. No one.

Harooni
12-04-2012, 01:43 AM
No coach is going for it when they are in Redskins territory, over 4 minutes, and they have 2 timeouts and are down one point. No one. you telling me no coach calls a avg or deep play on 3rd and 20 while losing with 4 min left???

Eliscruzzz
12-04-2012, 01:43 AM
Yes that is exactly what I'm saying.... Who's our best player on offense genius?? It's Nicks, Cruz, and Bennet but you didn't read what I wrote. I said instead of a dumb of to Bradshaw get the ball into Nicks or Cruz hands with a 7-10 yard slant and see if he can break away. Then go for it on fourth down. You don't think that Washington's defense wasn't expecting a screen on 3rd and 20??? Even I knew they were going to throw a screen.....it was just to predictable on 3rd and 20.

BlueBlooded1979
12-04-2012, 01:44 AM
No coach is going for it when they are in Redskins territory, over 4 minutes, and they have 2 timeouts and are down one point. No one.

Given that defense had forced two punts the whole night, going for it was the safer call. Trusting that pathetic defense to tackle someone is the real risk.

Eliscruzzz
12-04-2012, 01:45 AM
No coach is going for it when they are in Redskins territory, over 4 minutes, and they have 2 timeouts and are down one point. No one.LOL when you defense is not stopping them all night??? You have to feel how the game is going and make adjustment. If we don't get it then you can let them score or get close to the goaline with 2 to left and the 2 minute warning and give Eli a chance down 8.

Eliscruzzz
12-04-2012, 01:47 AM
So the Ravens play call was acceptable because Ray Rice is on another level? Yeah you're right, Gimpy Nicks or Dropsy Cruz -- with ALL the defensive eyes on them -- are picking it up. I love how now we are talking about going on fourth down, there was 4+ minutes left and we are in Redskins territory, that was probably NEVER considered. If we were that freaking desperate, we take the running into the punter penalty, go for it on 4th-10/11, and probably not convert. Then we are all crying because we didn't trust the defense.Yes that is exactly what I'm saying.... Who's our best player on offense genius?? It's Nicks, Cruz, and Bennet but you didn't read what I wrote. I said instead of a dumb of to Bradshaw get the ball into Nicks or Cruz hands with a 7-10 yard slant and see if he can break away. Then go for it on fourth down. You don't think that Washington's defense wasn't expecting a screen on 3rd and 20??? Even I knew they were going to throw a screen.....it was just to predictable on 3rd and 20.

gmen0820
12-04-2012, 01:48 AM
Given that defense had forced two punts the whole night, going for it was the safer call. Trusting that pathetic defense to tackle someone is the real risk.I also like to keep in mind that the coaches don't have the tool of hindsight. Needless to say, the odds of 3rd/4th-10+ are probably so rediculously low, that it actually is in fact NOT the safer choice in that instance.

BuffyBlueII
12-04-2012, 01:51 AM
The choice in that instance to go for it is way higher than stopping them from getting a 1st.

gmen0820
12-04-2012, 01:52 AM
LOL when you defense is not stopping them all night??? You have to feel how the game is going and make adjustment. If we don't get it then you can let them score or get close to the goaline with 2 to left and the 2 minute warning and give Eli a chance down 8.We gave up 17 points all night and won the turnover battle. Our defense, while ridiculously unlucky at times, was not giving up bombs all night. But you're on to something, you should let Coughlin know. Maybe you should tell the Hitler appeasers they were wrong in their efforts as well.

gmen0820
12-04-2012, 01:53 AM
The choice in that instance to go for it is way higher than stopping them from getting a 1st.Link/proof?

gmen0820
12-04-2012, 01:55 AM
Yes that is exactly what I'm saying.... Who's our best player on offense genius?? It's Nicks, Cruz, and Bennet but you didn't read what I wrote. I said instead of a dumb of to Bradshaw get the ball into Nicks or Cruz hands with a 7-10 yard slant and see if he can break away. Then go for it on fourth down. You don't think that Washington's defense wasn't expecting a screen on 3rd and 20??? Even I knew they were going to throw a screen.....it was just to predictable on 3rd and 20.I read what you wrote it just doesn't go at all with what I'm arguing. What if Nicks or Cruz gets no YAC and it's 4th and 10? You go for it, because essentially that's the situation we were in. We didn't go for it on 4th and 11, but of course if that is what you're arguing then that has nothing to do with the play call, it's the management decision.

L.T.56
12-04-2012, 01:55 AM
i think the offense can do and should do a much better job next week. there's no reason why the giants shouldn't be able to put up points on the saints defense. hopefully they take out their frustrations from this game out on to the next game.

Rusty192
12-04-2012, 01:59 AM
wth??? i could have sworn i started this thread??? aliens???You did. It got merged with other threads.

DemandedAce
12-04-2012, 04:11 AM
People who claim they see Eli checking into a run off of a pass makes me crack up. What you see is Eli calling out adjustments, possibly a hot route or maybe simply calling the run off right tackle instead of left. Every single time he makes an adjustment at the line does NOT mean he's checking from a pass play into whatever run happens. It doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but I can almost guarantee its not every single time he's making an adjustment

Harooni
12-04-2012, 02:38 PM
You did. It got merged with other threads. i thought that but i saw my title and jjp post mixed. its weird.

anyway im not talking hindsight, i talking 3rd and 20 and you have only 2 timeouts and even if they didnt get a first down you have what 20 seconds left???

Chazj1
12-04-2012, 02:55 PM
We have a PLAIN vanilla offense - if players execute it can work.

We havent tricked anyone in years

we havent added a "wrinkle" in years

No misdirection plays

No end arounds - just to keep people honest

We have no identity as an offense short of ELI making a great play - those seam passes where things of beauty

If Eli is the identity of this offense - we should live and die with it - deflating the ball to keep RG3 off the field was a bone head move and it cost us.

You can tell by how many posts I have made today that I am not happy and I think we were OUTCOACHED

Harooni
12-04-2012, 03:02 PM
We have a PLAIN vanilla offense - if players execute it can work.

We havent tricked anyone in years

we havent added a "wrinkle" in years

No misdirection plays

No end arounds - just to keep people honest

We have no identity as an offense short of ELI making a great play - those seam passes where things of beauty

If Eli is the identity of this offense - we should live and die with it - deflating the ball to keep RG3 off the field was a bone head move and it cost us.

You can tell by how many posts I have made today that I am not happy and I think we were OUTCOACHED

the thing with Eli is he made some great throws and then he follows them up with some overthrows or a delay of game. but the main problem is gilbride how do you keep running when besides hall they have a weak secondary???

Robert21156
12-04-2012, 03:03 PM
fortunate would be the right word here. we somehow pull wins out of our #####. Not sure how we do it but its crazy. and then they think they are all geniuses and keep with the same crappy game plans.
Man, you better stop with this logic that you're using here - I actually agree with you!!! You have been clear in the past that you're not a huge Eli supporter and I get that. Sometimes he's great, other times not, but he's still very good overall. Eli COULD have won the game for us last night without the terrible play calling and the horrendous field position provided by our "special" teams. However, the Giants have the worst game planning/scheming in the league. Yes, the entire league. We don't try to fool anyone or get anyone on defense out of position. We just plan on "out-executing" them. How often do we run on 2nd and 10 after missing a pass on first down? A LOT! How does ANYONE explain how many times we tried to run against a very good run defense last night? The Redskins are poor at pass defense, but darn that, we are going to establish a running game. And we did run some, but couldn't run much in the 2nd half. That doesn't stop the Giants brain trust though, does it? No sirree, we are damn well going to run the ball. And no Eli, you can't run the hurry-up which is what you do best. Why would we change things up just because they are not working? You are so right, we pull some games out of our ##@@%%**, but it sure isn't due to good coaching.

Robert21156
12-04-2012, 03:07 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

+100

Harooni
12-04-2012, 03:10 PM
Man, you better stop with this logic that you're using here - I actually agree with you!!! You have been clear in the past that you're not a huge Eli supporter and I get that. Sometimes he's great, other times not, but he's still very good overall. Eli COULD have won the game for us last night without the terrible play calling and the horrendous field position provided by our "special" teams. However, the Giants have the worst game planning/scheming in the league. Yes, the entire league. We don't try to fool anyone or get anyone on defense out of position. We just plan on "out-executing" them. How often do we run on 2nd and 10 after missing a pass on first down? A LOT! How does ANYONE explain how many times we tried to run against a very good run defense last night? The Redskins are poor at pass defense, but darn that, we are going to establish a running game. And we did run some, but couldn't run much in the 2nd half. That doesn't stop the Giants brain trust though, does it? No sirree, we are damn well going to run the ball. And no Eli, you can't run the hurry-up which is what you do best. Why would we change things up just because they are not working? You are so right, we pull some games out of our ##@@%%**, but it sure isn't due to good coaching.

i agree eli is a good qb up and down and great 2 min drill guy. and im happy he is the qb he has grown on me. frustrating because after a great pass he can make a bonehead move but i live with that. he made some throws yesterday that only peyton or brady could have made i know.

but my issue is with Gilbride. and you nailed it, they stick with the same thing over and over and i know it has worked but come on sometimes you have to switch things up.

Robert21156
12-04-2012, 03:22 PM
i agree eli is a good qb up and down and great 2 min drill guy. and im happy he is the qb he has grown on me. frustrating because after a great pass he can make a bonehead move but i live with that. he made some throws yesterday that only peyton or brady could have made i know.

but my issue is with Gilbride. and you nailed it, they stick with the same thing over and over and i know it has worked but come on sometimes you have to switch things up.
Never thought I'd say it, but YOU'RE the man!! We have to have the most predictable offense in the league. When the announcers say that the opponent's DB's know our receivers route trees, I'm just shaking my head. Eli did miss a couple of long throws last night, but how often do we have anyone running free in the secondary? Not often, and it's because EVERYTHING we do is stale. I'm truly ready for the entire coaching staff to be gone, even if we don't know what the future would hold then. The madness of our mediocrity is killing me. Our D-line totally sucked last night - very little pressure on RGIII and defensive ends crashing into the line while the ball is staying with the QB and going outside them by 5-10 yards!!! Embarrassing. Can we not coach a DE to stay home with an offense like that?

gumby74
12-04-2012, 05:11 PM
Let's face it. We weren't able to stop them. We kicked FG's when they scored TDs. They executed we didn't. We lost fair and square.

gmen0820
12-04-2012, 05:14 PM
Let's face it. We weren't able to stop them. We kicked FG's when they scored TDs. They executed we didn't. We lost fair and square.They scored two freaking touchdowns, one was flukey as hell, and we lost by ONE point. We didn't get blown out of the water.

joemorrisforprez
12-04-2012, 05:19 PM
We have a PLAIN vanilla offense - if players execute it can work.

We havent tricked anyone in years

we havent added a "wrinkle" in years

No misdirection plays

No end arounds - just to keep people honest

We have no identity as an offense short of ELI making a great play - those seam passes where things of beauty

If Eli is the identity of this offense - we should live and die with it - deflating the ball to keep RG3 off the field was a bone head move and it cost us.

You can tell by how many posts I have made today that I am not happy and I think we were OUTCOACHED

Count me in as one of the people that think Eli deserves the majority of credit for our offensive success.

Gilbride saves his most aggravating game plans for the NFC East.

joemorrisforprez
12-04-2012, 05:21 PM
http://www.giants101.com/2012/12/03/new-york-giants-kevin-gilbride-i-think-iím-the-best-there-is/


Hey guys,

Say what you want about my main man Kevin, but he is my boy for life. He proves the doubters wrong when it counts, and throws in a vanilla gameplan to keep other teams off balance. He is almost as cool as Martellus Bennet.


Tina Turner wrote this song specifically for Kevin Gilbride...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra12L1Bl0Z4

BuffyBlueII
12-05-2012, 12:52 PM
Link/proof?

The proof is that it is obvious our defense was not going to stop them and we should have went for it. Heck, Tuck and Osi were just transfixed and fantasizing about Bobby Gee 3 that there was no way our defense was going to contain him with 4 minutes left on the clock.

BMW
12-05-2012, 12:56 PM
The proof is that it is obvious our defense was not going to stop them and we should have went for it. Heck, Tuck and Osi were just transfixed and fantasizing about Bobby Gee 3 that there was no way our defense was going to contain him with 4 minutes left on the clock.Lucky drops also made the game closer, if they actually caught the wide open passes the score would be much higher.

gmen0820
12-05-2012, 01:34 PM
The proof is that it is obviousIn that case it shouldn't be difficult to cough up some tangible proof. We stopped them just that prior drive.

Buddy333
12-05-2012, 01:46 PM
I didn't realize the OC told his players to commit lots of penalties and not execute their plays. He really is at fault isn't he?

gumby74
12-05-2012, 01:47 PM
They scored two freaking touchdowns, one was flukey as hell, and we lost by ONE point. We didn't get blown out of the water.

Of course we didn't get blown out of the water. They weren't able to stop us on offense as well. The big difference was they scored TDs and we didn't. We're the Kings of kicking FGs. It's bound to bite us in the butt at some point, and it did last week. Heck, against Green Bay, we pretty much scored touchdowns and subsequently blew them out. If we scored an extra TD here, we win. As crap as our defense is, they only gave up 17 points. If you want to place blame, the offense is more to blame for only being able to put up 16 points.

Rudyy
12-05-2012, 01:53 PM
They scored two freaking touchdowns, one was flukey as hell, and we lost by ONE point. We didn't get blown out of the water.They scored 2 touchdowns, we scored one.

Drez
12-05-2012, 04:44 PM
They scored two freaking touchdowns, one was flukey as hell, and we lost by ONE point. We didn't get blown out of the water.
Not to mention the missed FG, too.

Mostly, the penalties freaking killed up.

Drez
12-05-2012, 04:47 PM
Of course we didn't get blown out of the water. They weren't able to stop us on offense as well. The big difference was they scored TDs and we didn't. We're the Kings of kicking FGs. It's bound to bite us in the butt at some point, and it did last week. Heck, against Green Bay, we pretty much scored touchdowns and subsequently blew them out. If we scored an extra TD here, we win. As crap as our defense is, they only gave up 17 points. If you want to place blame, the offense is more to blame for only being able to put up 16 points.
Why not blame the entire team? The penalties were brutal. The offense couldn't score. The defense couldn't get off the field in the 2nd half. ST's missed a FG and had several costly penalties that absolutely killed our field position (primarily in the 2nd half).

There's enough blame to go around where one side of the ball needn't be singled out.

brad
12-05-2012, 04:52 PM
Why not blame the entire team? The penalties were brutal. The offense couldn't score. The defense couldn't get off the field in the 2nd half. ST's missed a FG and had several costly penalties that absolutely killed our field position (primarily in the 2nd half).

There's enough blame to go around where one side of the ball needn't be singled out.

I think the difference is that we have come to expect our defense to be mediocre with a few big plays... our offense on the other hand is supposed to be among the best in the league, something that we haven't seen for most of the second half of the season. I think as long as we are continuously told that Eli is "elite", our O coord is greatest offensive mind in the NFL and that our receiving group is the best... we will probably continue to expect them to play like they are.

ELI_HOF_NYG
12-05-2012, 05:58 PM
http://www.giants101.com/2012/12/03/new-york-giants-kevin-gilbride-i-think-iím-the-best-there-is/


Hey guys,

Say what you want about my main man Kevin, but he is my boy for life. He proves the doubters wrong when it counts, and throws in a vanilla gameplan to keep other teams off balance. He is almost as cool as Martellus Bennet.

does gilbride play D? could kilbride not stop a nose bleed, never mind the run? there is plenty of blame to go around,,he is only part of the problem.

Robert21156
12-05-2012, 06:09 PM
Of course we didn't get blown out of the water. They weren't able to stop us on offense as well. The big difference was they scored TDs and we didn't. We're the Kings of kicking FGs. It's bound to bite us in the butt at some point, and it did last week. Heck, against Green Bay, we pretty much scored touchdowns and subsequently blew them out. If we scored an extra TD here, we win. As crap as our defense is, they only gave up 17 points. If you want to place blame, the offense is more to blame for only being able to put up 16 points.
Yeah, you're right, but there's a reason for that. Trying to run the ball too much when that's the other team's strength is pure Giants "hard-headedness" from the coaching staff. When the other team is weak against the pass, then you pass the ball the vast majority of the time. At least one sequence in the 2nd half we ran on first AND second down and then had 3rd and long. We ran the ball well in the first half, but not the 2nd, but we didn't change our playcalling to adjust for that. Gilbride should shoulder a lot of the blame.

Harooni
12-05-2012, 06:14 PM
Tina Turner wrote this song specifically for Kevin Gilbride...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra12L1Bl0Z4 lmao

Drez
12-05-2012, 06:41 PM
Yeah, you're right, but there's a reason for that. Trying to run the ball too much when that's the other team's strength is pure Giants "hard-headedness" from the coaching staff. When the other team is weak against the pass, then you pass the ball the vast majority of the time. At least one sequence in the 2nd half we ran on first AND second down and then had 3rd and long. We ran the ball well in the first half, but not the 2nd, but we didn't change our playcalling to adjust for that. Gilbride should shoulder a lot of the blame.

Including all called passing plays (includes scrambles, sacks, and plays negated by penalty) we ran pass plays 4 more times than running plays in the second half. We only had 2 3rd and longs, both of which were set up by an incomplete pass on first down. The times in the second half that we ran on 1st and 2nd down netted a 3-5 (though one of the runs was scramble on a called pass) a 3-4, and a first down.

Tmurda1984
12-05-2012, 08:14 PM
People do not understand that the coaching staff tried to establish the run to shortened the game. The Redskins option offense is damn near unstoppable against our 4-3 front. People can say" Well Fewell should switch it up", well thats a problem when your GM do not draft linebackers or have Defensive Ends who are willingly to play other positions. We are also have problems with the speed at the position too, which is why Rolle was taking on blocks from a 270lb fullback. Jacquien Williams was a perfect fit against this defense. Blackburn came to play but Rivers and Boley were lost out there.

The Giants were able to keep RG3 off the field...but stupid penalties killed our drives. You can blame refs all you want but false starts and delay of games and intentional grounding is inexcusable. The holding calls were pretty clear too...I seen Locklear bet right off the snap with an inside move and he was holding for dear life. Beatty was getting beat around the edge too which is inexcusable because Orakpo is not there.