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Roosevelt
12-16-2012, 07:50 PM
It's obvious that something is up with Eli. I'm not sure what is going on but he has not looked sharp for a couple months now.

He's locking on to receivers, and he's just not throwing the ball well.

That first pick set the tone and we never recovered.

This is not to suggest that Eli is our only problem, because he's obviously not. But last year he carried this team for the most part. This year he's just not the same player.

Down-lifer
12-16-2012, 07:52 PM
It's obvious that something is up with Eli. I'm not sure what is going on but he has not looked sharp for a couple months now.

He's locking on to receivers, and he's just not throwing the ball well.

That first pick set the tone and we never recovered.

This is not to suggest that Eli is our only problem, because he's obviously not. But last year he carried this team for the most part. This year he's just not the same player.Maybe something is going on in his personal life. I'm being serious. He has a new baby right?

EliDaMANning
12-16-2012, 07:54 PM
Nicks is injured, cruz is scared of contact. He has DD who gets blown up on every other play. They don't utilize Bennett at all. It's not just him.

GameTime
12-16-2012, 07:54 PM
dont know. Just not right. Actually the whole O seems slow and not sharp. He is not doing well but he is not alone...

Hooligans
12-16-2012, 07:55 PM
It's obvious that something is up with Eli. I'm not sure what is going on but he has not looked sharp for a couple months now.

He's locking on to receivers, and he's just not throwing the ball well.

That first pick set the tone and we never recovered.

This is not to suggest that Eli is our only problem, because he's obviously not. But last year he carried this team for the most part. This year he's just not the same player.

I think now we all know why the other NFL players don't consider Eli an elite QB.

Black
12-16-2012, 07:56 PM
What has happened to Eli Manning?

puberty.

Cloud57
12-16-2012, 07:56 PM
His arm is tired.

cfh64
12-16-2012, 07:56 PM
I'll tell you whats up...he sucks. The media talks about how great he is for "forgetting" his interceptions and how he keeps playing and making great passes. I've always thought the exact opposite. He's so damn ignorant that he forgets the interceptions and continues to throw passes that he shouldn't. Seriously, he had some good years but when someone regresses this much its time to admit how bad he is and stop defending him.

TheEnigma
12-16-2012, 07:58 PM
Asante Samuel happened. Seriously, that dude could probably write down all of Gilbride's passing routes and teach every defense in the NFL what to do. He has seen us too many times.

joemorrisforprez
12-16-2012, 07:59 PM
I don't think it's fair that our offense has to rely on a QB that has to play lights-out every game for a win.

Nobody else stepped up today. The coaching staff refused to put points on the board.....our kicker is mediocre....he missed a chip shot, and is unable to hit a long field goal in a dome.....our defense leaked like a screen door. Our offensive coordinate doesn't trust the most dynamic running back we have.

The whole performance was pathetic today....including Eli.

But I've seen enough from him to know he's the last dude I'm pointing finger at today.

Flip Empty
12-16-2012, 07:59 PM
Josh Lindley had a better day than Elisha...

TheBookOfEli
12-16-2012, 07:59 PM
The real question is: What has happened to the 2004 QB Class? They all suck!!!

Hooligans
12-16-2012, 07:59 PM
Asante Samuel happened. Seriously, that dude could probably write down all of Gilbride's passing routes and teach every defense in the NFL what to do. He has seen us too many times.

It ain't Gilbride's fault that his QB played horribly.

AllHailEli
12-16-2012, 07:59 PM
Too much praise...that's what's going on! Start lowering your expectations and it will be a win-win. They will either overachieve or you will not be disappointed. :)

BeatYale
12-16-2012, 07:59 PM
On offense he certainly should be the focal point of our problems. Turnovers are killer, and we all know he's capable of being a turnover machine. It's not like it's really that far behind him. Outside of our 2 Super Bowl runs, inconsistency is the best word to describe Eli's play.

giantsfan420
12-16-2012, 08:00 PM
i try and look at whats going on around him. I think sometimes he gets in his head and tries to do too much. u cant do that in the nfl really, sure every now and then u can do the extraordinary, but seems like eli realizes a lot depends solely on him.

we've had issues with the OL. Bradshaw and Nicks have both missed time and pretty much played injured. Nicks makes 3-4 plays he didnt make today if hes healthy.

i mean obvious eli didnt play well. and obviously hes been up and down this season. but i think if u tracked his performance in context of whats going on around him, its much more than eli. i mean he can make any play any qb can make with his arm. we've seen it we know it. why does he have these slumps then?

Personally I mentioned above what I think it is, and plus I think KG depends too much on the players to succeed. He could help out by designing plays that gives them an advantage. its got to be tiring knowing u have to outwork the other guy every single snap, like u dont have a hidden ace that u can depend on when the guy against u is playing well. we've seen it all year, cruz either goes off or he he gets shut down. he can either handle the d or he cant, KG doesnt adjust to give him help in beating the D. see what i mean? Like EVERY pass play depends on eli and the wr making the proper read, we dont have designed pick/crossing route plays or other staples that helps the player succeed. i mean execution, yeah, but imagine how tiring it has to be to have to do the entire out executing, like KG doesnt give our guys a head start imo. Way too much is dependent on the wr and eli breaking down the d, when KG should be drawing up the plays that do that, and all the players have to do is run the play. its like we have to do too much play by play...

plus we're the same offensive system for a while now. theres nothing defenses wont have seen from KG. seems as if the O is too stale and too much rides on individual perforamnce and not enough on scheme.

goes way deeper than eli imo. u put eli on NE and swap him with brady, elis doing the same things brady does. just diff scheme and strategy here that does work, but man its hit or miss. if our guys cant straight beat the guy across from him, its a wrap bc we dont make adjustments and just hope the player eventually beats the guy across from him

Harooni
12-16-2012, 08:00 PM
nothing eli has always been up and down, some just forget because of 2min drills and sb's.

GentleGiant
12-16-2012, 08:01 PM
I'll tell you whats up...he sucks. The media talks about how great he is for "forgetting" his interceptions and how he keeps playing and making great passes. I've always thought the exact opposite. He's so damn ignorant that he forgets the interceptions and continues to throw passes that he shouldn't. Seriously, he had some good years but when someone regresses this much its time to admit how bad he is and stop defending him. By regressing I guess you mean blowing out the saints, packers, and 9ers. Drew Brees has had a worse slump this year than Eli yet because he's the GREAAAAAAAAAAAAAT Drew Brees, no one says he sucks.

TheEnigma
12-16-2012, 08:01 PM
It ain't Gilbride's fault that his QB played horribly.

Not excusing Eli at all but you do have to admit that the Falcons secondary looked like they knew what was coming and you can bet your dollar that Samuel gave them good intel.

Rudyy
12-16-2012, 08:02 PM
What has happened to everyone?

GIANTSED101
12-16-2012, 08:03 PM
Ever since Diel came back the line's been horrible and Eli's been trying to do way to much. He's turning back into his old self. Forcing throws, making bad decisions. Not only that I think loosing Brown really hurts us more than we realized it would.

giant-4-life
12-16-2012, 08:03 PM
There's no spirit on the sideline period. there's no desire on the field. I feel a wind of change coming on. we could see alot of new faces on this team next year. I think we'll see 3 new coaches and numerous players

gone
Diehl, webster, tuck, osi, any other obvious ones?

Coaches
TC, KG(as long as TC stays, KG will too)and PF.

we are going to have to have one heck of a draft this april. we have alot of quitters on this team..

Eliscruzzz
12-16-2012, 08:05 PM
I hate to admit it but he has been way off this year. He's throwing off his back foot all the time. He's not stepping into his throws. He's over throwing receivers. He's taking the snap count all the way done so the defense knows when to get a jump on the ball. Instead of taking a sack he's trying to play a hero. I love Eli and I still think he's elite but there is no excuse for his play today....161 yards and 2ints. wtf?? This team just looks like they don't give a ****. Like oh well we won last year screw this year and Eli is playing a major part in this. We need him to play great with this bend don't break defense but he's pressing to much. All I want is for him to take what the dense is giving instead of trying to make the big PLAY EVERYTIME.

joemorrisforprez
12-16-2012, 08:07 PM
There's no spirit on the sideline period. there's no desire on the field. I feel a wind of change coming on. we could see alot of new faces on this team next year. I think we'll see 3 new coaches and numerous players

gone
Diehl, webster, tuck, osi, any other obvious ones?

Coaches
TC, KG(as long as TC stays, KG will too)and PF.

we are going to have to have one heck of a draft this april. we have alot of quitters on this team..

Coughlin isn't going anywhere.

But there are alot of great coaches out there that could and should replace our existing coordinators.

P_Simms_#11
12-16-2012, 08:08 PM
Eli is a good-very good Qb with moments of greatness and moments of incompetence.

gumby74
12-16-2012, 08:17 PM
There's no spirit on the sideline period. there's no desire on the field. I feel a wind of change coming on. we could see alot of new faces on this team next year. I think we'll see 3 new coaches and numerous players

gone
Diehl, webster, tuck, osi, any other obvious ones?

Coaches
TC, KG(as long as TC stays, KG will too)and PF.

we are going to have to have one heck of a draft this april. we have alot of quitters on this team..

KP, Beatty, Joseph

giantsfan420
12-16-2012, 08:19 PM
KP, Beatty, Joseph??i bet we dont get rid of 1 of those

bELIeve_in_Giants
12-16-2012, 08:20 PM
Could he be hiding an injury?

gumby74
12-16-2012, 08:22 PM
??i bet we dont get rid of 1 of those Maybe we keep Beatty since he's cheaper. But Joseph is going to get close to Cofield money and KP is going to get more the Gibril Wilson got. We're already treading water with the Salary Cap. I don't see us resigning many others - especially if we expect to resign Cruz and Nicks. Btw, I totally don't think Cruz is worth top dollar - not even close.

dakotajoe
12-16-2012, 08:24 PM
nothing eli has always been up and down, some just forget because of 2min drills and sb's.

Agree completely. It doesn't help that he's had receivers playing hurt. His stats aren't down as much as it may seem.

The passing went downhill after Nicks got banged up in the Bucs game early on in the season. Bennett messed up his knee a couple weeks later. Nicks hasn't been practicing and it's throwing the offense out of sync. Eli has thrown a lot of bad balls and his timing is off.

Roosevelt
12-16-2012, 08:27 PM
Nicks is injured, cruz is scared of contact. He has DD who gets blown up on every other play. They don't utilize Bennett at all. It's not just him.

Good points. Hakeem has battled injuries all season and Cruz is hearing footsteps. Deihl was injured as well.

As for Bennett, when have the Giants (under Coughlin) ever truly utilized a tight end to their fullest potential?

Roosevelt
12-16-2012, 08:30 PM
Josh Lindley had a better day than Elisha...

You better be kidding.

gumby74
12-16-2012, 08:32 PM
Nothing happened to him. 2011 was an aberration. It's clear as night and day now.

radar-ray
12-16-2012, 08:32 PM
Good points. Hakeem has battled injuries all season and Cruz is hearing footsteps. Deihl was injured as well.

As for Bennett, when have the Giants (under Coughlin) ever truly utilized a tight end to their fullest potential? this.

bELIeve_in_Giants
12-16-2012, 08:33 PM
I like the theory that there's only so much Manning mojo to go around in one season and Peyton is using it all up this year.

TextureDj
12-16-2012, 08:35 PM
I catch chuckles when I say this, but Shannahan figured out how to confound Eli (meaning the offensive scheme) last year. Reid actually started it but either he didnt know what they had or Shannahan just turned it into a shut down the Giants offense formula that is easily applied. Not every team has the zone saavy personnel to make it work which is why we still blow some teams out. Teams with weak secondaries. Like NO and GB.

Its like they are faking the 1 on 1 all over the feild and leaving guys free to jump any ball they can get to once they bait Eli. If we had an Offensive line that tied up D-lines they wouldnt be able to do this so easy but we don't. LBs dont have to be ready to hit gaps because their line will almost always make first contact.

TheBookOfEli
12-16-2012, 08:38 PM
I like the theory that there's only so much Manning mojo to go around in one season and Peyton is using it all up this year.

lol i actually thought about that before i read your post. Maybe it's true! Peyton, retire already!!!

Roosevelt
12-16-2012, 08:58 PM
i try and look at whats going on around him. I think sometimes he gets in his head and tries to do too much. u cant do that in the nfl really, sure every now and then u can do the extraordinary, but seems like eli realizes a lot depends solely on him.

we've had issues with the OL. Bradshaw and Nicks have both missed time and pretty much played injured. Nicks makes 3-4 plays he didnt make today if hes healthy.

i mean obvious eli didnt play well. and obviously hes been up and down this season. but i think if u tracked his performance in context of whats going on around him, its much more than eli. i mean he can make any play any qb can make with his arm. we've seen it we know it. why does he have these slumps then?

Personally I mentioned above what I think it is, and plus I think KG depends too much on the players to succeed. He could help out by designing plays that gives them an advantage. its got to be tiring knowing u have to outwork the other guy every single snap, like u dont have a hidden ace that u can depend on when the guy against u is playing well. we've seen it all year, cruz either goes off or he he gets shut down. he can either handle the d or he cant, KG doesnt adjust to give him help in beating the D. see what i mean? Like EVERY pass play depends on eli and the wr making the proper read, we dont have designed pick/crossing route plays or other staples that helps the player succeed. i mean execution, yeah, but imagine how tiring it has to be to have to do the entire out executing, like KG doesnt give our guys a head start imo. Way too much is dependent on the wr and eli breaking down the d, when KG should be drawing up the plays that do that, and all the players have to do is run the play. its like we have to do too much play by play...

plus we're the same offensive system for a while now. theres nothing defenses wont have seen from KG. seems as if the O is too stale and too much rides on individual perforamnce and not enough on scheme.

goes way deeper than eli imo. u put eli on NE and swap him with brady, elis doing the same things brady does. just diff scheme and strategy here that does work, but man its hit or miss. if our guys cant straight beat the guy across from him, its a wrap bc we dont make adjustments and just hope the player eventually beats the guy across from him

Good post. It seems like the league has figured us out for sure. That, in addition to our injuries have definitely hurt us.

In 2007 and last year, Eli seemed able to steer clear of the costly turnovers more often than not. Perhaps that's much easier when your supporting cast is performing at a higher level and healthy, but as our franchise leader he needs to set the standard. And we haven't been seeing that.

This team needs a leader right now...

Roosevelt
12-16-2012, 09:02 PM
Could he be hiding an injury?

That wouldn't surprise me, and I was hoping someone knew something I didn't know.

In 2009 Eli had a really nice reg. season until the foot injury.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn he's been playing with some type of injury.

Flip Empty
12-16-2012, 09:10 PM
You better be kidding.
Err.. Ryan, I mean. I don't even know his name...

Lindley - 14/21 104 yds 1INT/1FUM (recovered)
Eli - 13/25 161 yds 2INT

Roosevelt
12-16-2012, 09:14 PM
Err.. Ryan, I mean. I don't even know his name...

Lindley - 14/21 104 yds 1INT/1FUM (recovered)
Eli - 13/25 161 yds 2INT

No one is as bad as Lindley.

G-MENBK
12-16-2012, 09:17 PM
Something I just noticed: why don't we run the no huddle? When was the last time we did that?

Someone said Bennett doesn't get the throws his way. In this game? I agree. Overall? I still don't know why we don't use Hynoski as much.

brad
12-16-2012, 09:18 PM
No one is as bad as Lindley.

LOL, he did have a better completion percentage than Eli... and the numbers aren't that far off.

carlton5127@msn.com
12-16-2012, 09:21 PM
His arm is tired. this is what I think and see also.

Flip Empty
12-16-2012, 09:23 PM
No one is as bad as Lindley.
Tell that to my fantasy team haha. Eli gave me a whopping 2.4 points. Lindley would've netted me 2.9

GameTime
12-16-2012, 09:28 PM
Tell that to my fantasy team haha. Eli gave me a whopping 2.4 points. Lindley would've netted me 2.9
I dont play fantasy football but I am sure Eli is not a great fantasy type player......

giantsfan420
12-16-2012, 09:30 PM
Good post. It seems like the league has figured us out for sure. That, in addition to our injuries have definitely hurt us.

In 2007 and last year, Eli seemed able to steer clear of the costly turnovers more often than not. Perhaps that's much easier when your supporting cast is performing at a higher level and healthy, but as our franchise leader he needs to set the standard. And we haven't been seeing that.

This team needs a leader right now...yeah, see today i dont hold it against him as much as lets say pitt, where other units were doing their job and elis inability to play well cost us. i mean i think it was clear today that yes eli sucked but so did every other guy, except wilson imo but he got benched smh...i couldnt believe samuel has picked eli off on the first pass of the game 3 times now, ud think we wouldnt have gone after him on the first play smh and he knew the route nicks was running cold.

thats another thing, a healthy nicks makes 3-4 plays today that he left out there. at what point is it we r being stubborn in playing him injured when we have other guys healthy?

we should know frm last year tho we arent dead, in fact with how this team works, this may have been the best thing that coulda happened today...getting embarrassed will mean they will come out with passion next week, they didnt have any today

giantsfan420
12-16-2012, 09:32 PM
ya know, ive been thinking it seems like teams are sitting their secondaries on the short routes. dbs are constantly jumping the underneath stuff. we need to go downfield more, but teams know our OL cant give eli that kinda time...we need to play our best ball for 6 games, we can do it, will we?

giantsfan420
12-16-2012, 09:33 PM
Something I just noticed: why don't we run the no huddle? When was the last time we did that?

Someone said Bennett doesn't get the throws his way. In this game? I agree. Overall? I still don't know why we don't use Hynoski as much.on those 4th downs, if we would have handed it to hyno, he woulda converted imo bc he kept meeting the defender right at the LOS, if he has the ball he can just fall forward from where he met the defender for the 1rst. horrid play callin imo n those 4ths

G-MENBK
12-16-2012, 09:37 PM
on those 4th downs, if we would have handed it to hyno, he woulda converted imo bc he kept meeting the defender right at the LOS, if he has the ball he can just fall forward from where he met the defender for the 1rst. horrid play callin imo n those 4ths

I may be mistaken but when we played the Falcons last season, they covered Nicks and Cruz well. What threw them off was not only Eli completing passes to Hynoski but Hynoski getting 10 yards+ a reception.

Flip Empty
12-16-2012, 09:37 PM
I dont play fantasy football but I am sure Eli is not a great fantasy type player......
He's average but normally pretty reliable. Good value considering his average draft position.

I don't know what's happened to him, I really hope these aren't the early stages of a full-on.Rivers meltdown.

Roosevelt
12-16-2012, 09:40 PM
ya know, ive been thinking it seems like teams are sitting their secondaries on the short routes. dbs are constantly jumping the underneath stuff. we need to go downfield more, but teams know our OL cant give eli that kinda time...we need to play our best ball for 6 games, we can do it, will we?

Trouble is we may have played ourselves into a 2 game season.

Imgrate
12-16-2012, 09:44 PM
Eli plays the mostv important position, gets paid the most, and a ton of ourv investments are tied into the passing game. We are supposed to be relying on eli to win us games.

Rudyy
12-16-2012, 09:45 PM
Eli plays the mostv important position, gets paid the most, and a ton of ourv investments are tied into the passing game. We are supposed to be relying on eli to win us games.No we should not.

He's the most important piece but in no way should we rely on him to win us a game. This is the New York Giants, not the New York Eli Manning.

G-MENBK
12-16-2012, 09:46 PM
No we should not.

He's the most important piece but in no way should we rely on him to win us a game. This is the New York Giants, not the New York Eli Manning.

There's nothing wrong with having to rely on Eli; it's when we only have to rely on Eli that it becomes a problem.

Rudyy
12-16-2012, 09:49 PM
There's nothing wrong with having to rely on Eli; it's when we only have to rely on Eli that it becomes a problem.I know!

giantsfan420
12-16-2012, 09:52 PM
good post gmenhbk...eli does deserve a ton of the criticism hes received this year, but people still need to remember he cant do anything if the OL aint doing their job, or the wr aint doing hteir jobs etc etc...i think eli (remember, he is a football genius) realizes what level of play is gonna be needed to win the SB like last year and hes trying to do too much. he just needs to play his game. he needs to scan the field more. hes regressed in that area imo, he isnt scanning the entire field...its bc heunderstands what the d is doing presnap, but d's are baiting him now and switching out of what they showed him presnap...

Harooni
12-16-2012, 09:54 PM
20mill a year in cap space says he should carry the offense at least. we know the D has their issues too.

Imgrate
12-16-2012, 10:00 PM
No we should not.He's the most important piece but in no way should we rely on him to win us a game. This is the New York Giants, not the New York Eli Manning.Welcome to the new nfl. The colts relied on peyton for years. The pats on brady. The packers on rodgers. We have a lot of draft picks invested into wrs and a lot of money invested into eli. These are the people that are supposed to win us games.

Rudyy
12-16-2012, 10:02 PM
Welcome to the new nfl. The colts relied on peyton for years. The pats on brady. The packers on rodgers. We have a lot of draft picks invested into wrs and a lot of money invested into eli. These are the people that are supposed to win us games.Yeah, but not just Eli. This is what happens when you depend on one guy to do most of the work all the time. You get knee jerk reactions like "Eli is unelite" "Mark Sanchez is better". That's not fair.

Buddy333
12-16-2012, 10:08 PM
The only problem is they can not count on Eli at all lately.

L.T.56
12-16-2012, 10:12 PM
i dont think he can ever escape throwing a good amount of interceptions. he just seems like one of those quarterbacks that you can guarantee will throw atleast 20 touchdowns but he will also throw atleast over 10 interceptions. he's not a stat monster. that's just not who he is.

DarkSaint
12-16-2012, 10:16 PM
The only problem is they can not count on Eli at all lately. As a true Giants fan I would have used "We" instead of "They".

stormblue
12-16-2012, 10:20 PM
unless i see a marked improvement in his decision making......
i will have to say that this is what Eli has always been.,,, unpredictably hot and cold ,,
a year in year out 9-7 QB that was fortunate enough to play in , and be an integral part of...
2 realistically unlikely SB runs.
where you had helmet catches and Manningham Miracles and a defense that shows up in the playoffs.

i think he has benefited from the people around him more than anyone cares to realize.
he is not cool under pressure...he panics and makes bad decisions.
jam his receivers at the line or hurry him .....and he becomes a deer in the headlites....
with that confounded goober pyle look on his face.
read and react doesn't work in panic mode.
i have finally started to realize why they worry so much about pass protection....
it's because Eli folds under pressure.

byron
12-16-2012, 10:26 PM
It's obvious that something is up with Eli. I'm not sure what is going on but he has not looked sharp for a couple months now.

He's locking on to receivers, and he's just not throwing the ball well.

That first pick set the tone and we never recovered.

This is not to suggest that Eli is our only problem, because he's obviously not. But last year he carried this team for the most part. This year he's just not the same player. I don't think he getting a lot of time to go through his progressions he locking in and unloading to the first guy he sees the protection is not to good man

chasjay
12-16-2012, 10:27 PM
For whatever reasons, it is obvious that Eli is off his game - maybe more-so than some others on the team. It is obvious that Hakeem's injuries are hampering him. On the second interception, Nicks made a wide, arcing turn inside instead of a crisp cut toward the middle. If he had been able to plant and cut sharply, he would have been in position to at least contend for the ball, even though it still likely could have been a pick. I usually don't give much credence to those complaining about the offensive game plan, but today I saw no good rhyme or reason to many of the the play calls.

G-MENBK
12-16-2012, 10:33 PM
i think he has benefited from the people around him more than anyone cares to realize.
he is not cool under pressure...he panics and makes bad decisions.
jam his receivers at the line or hurry him .....and he becomes a deer in the headlites....
with that confounded goober pyle look on his face.
read and react doesn't work in panic mode.
i have finally started to realize why they worry so much about pass protection....
it's because Eli folds under pressure.

Cruz leads the league in dropped passes, Nicks is still playing hurt, Hixon is a hit or miss at times.

Yeah..what is wrong with Eli?

brad
12-16-2012, 10:34 PM
I don't think he getting a lot of time to go through his progressions he locking in and unloading to the first guy he sees the protection not to good man

While the O-line hasn't been great, Eli is still the least sacked QB in the league (15). For comparison, Rodgers has been sacked 42 times this year. So... while you can certainly argue that Eli is getting rid of the ball instead of taking the sacks, you will have a hard time convincing me that Rodgers is getting less pressure than Eli. GB has had their share of injuries at WR, and yet somehow they manage 30 passing TDs to Elis 20. To top that off, Rodgers has 8 ints to Elis 13... conditions may not be perfect for Eli, but this is the NFL, they aren't perfect for most QBs in the league.

To me, the difference between Eli and Rodgers isn't their ability however, it is the system. Rodgers is in a system that allows him to get rid of the ball faster, the Giants system has far too many plays that take too long to develop and an O-line that can't protect him long enough to allow those plays to develop... to be fair, there aren't many O-lines that can.

Buddy333
12-16-2012, 10:34 PM
Lol. Right. Eli was so accurate today.

G-MENBK
12-16-2012, 10:36 PM
Lol. Right. Eli was so accurate today.

Eli was the ****s today.

Still, neither Cruz or Nicks are having the same type of season they had last season. Nicks you can give a pass on because he has played injured.

brad
12-16-2012, 10:37 PM
Cruz leads the league in dropped passes, Nicks is still playing hurt, Hixon is a hit or miss at times.

Yeah..what is wrong with Eli?

I don't sit and count all the dropped passes... but Bennet had a "dropped pass" today too. The one that bounced off the ground before it got to him. Is that Bennets fault or Eli. Nicks also had one thrown to him, well out of reach, does that count as a dropped pass, or was that on Eli.

Yes, other players share in the blame, but Eli was far from good today.

G-MENBK
12-16-2012, 10:40 PM
I don't sit and count all the dropped passes... but Bennet had a "dropped pass" today too. The one that bounced off the ground before it got to him. Is that Bennets fault or Eli. Nicks also had one thrown to him, well out of reach, does that count as a dropped pass, or was that on Eli.

Dropped pass is when a receiver gets a hand or two on the ball but still drops it. Neither Bennett or Nicks made contact with the ball this game.

In other games, however..

Buddy333
12-16-2012, 10:43 PM
That pass that was dropped by Bennett when he was wide open was a horrible throw by Eli. Sorry, it was. He wasn't being pressured on the play and he had his man wide open. He made a bad throw.

G-MENBK
12-16-2012, 10:44 PM
That pass that was dropped by Bennett when he was wide open was a horrible throw by Eli. Sorry, it was. He wasn't being pressured on the play and he had his man wide open. He made a bad throw.

Where am I arguing that?

stormblue
12-16-2012, 10:53 PM
Cruz leads the league in dropped passes, Nicks is still playing hurt, Hixon is a hit or miss at times.

Yeah..what is wrong with Eli?

actually.......Wes Welker has 3 more drops than Cruz does.......doesn't seem to slow Brady down.
and i have shown stats to prove Nicks shouldn't be on the field because we have viable backups and Eli
always tries to force it to him......wasting targets......Nicks has the worse reception % on the team.

but you walked right into my point....Eli does not elevate the players around him....it appears to be quite the reverse...
he needs them to step up....or he folds.

Imgrate
12-16-2012, 10:53 PM
Yeah, but not just Eli. This is what happens when you depend on one guy to do most of the work all the time. You get knee jerk reactions like "Eli is unelite" "Mark Sanchez is better". That's not fair.I feel like this has nothing to do with what I said at all.

Buddy333
12-16-2012, 10:55 PM
Where am I arguing that?That wasn't meant for you.

G-MENBK
12-16-2012, 11:02 PM
actually.......Wes Welker has 3 more drops than Cruz does.......doesn't seem to slow Brady down.

Probably 3 more came in this game. Brady still has Gronkowski (Injured) and Hernandez. That, and look at the division they play in compared to ours.


but you walked right into my point....Eli does not elevate the players around him....it appears to be quite the reverse...
he needs them to step up....or he folds.

If receivers aren't reliable, the QB is also going to stink up the joint.

Look at Rodgers against us the last two games.

Rudyy
12-16-2012, 11:05 PM
I feel like this has nothing to do with what I said at all.You said we have to rely on Eli.

I'm saying you should NOT be relying on guys to come through for you because when they don't, you get people saying ridiculous things like Eli is Mark Sanchez.

Buddy333
12-16-2012, 11:09 PM
You said we have to rely on Eli.I'm saying you should NOT be relying on guys to come through for you because when they don't, you get people saying ridiculous things like Eli is Mark Sanchez.Huh?

alentown pa
12-16-2012, 11:13 PM
It's obvious that something is up with Eli. I'm not sure what is going on but he has not looked sharp for a couple months now.

He's locking on to receivers, and he's just not throwing the ball well.

That first pick set the tone and we never recovered.

This is not to suggest that Eli is our only problem, because he's obviously not. But last year he carried this team for the most part. This year he's just not the same player.

what Im hoping it is, is that teams have gone to school on us, kind of like how Dallas drafted to combat us with our wr's....We set the bar so high and teams give us their best...No more underdog us against the world crap...Even in 2008 we were still being disrespected by teams and the league, the giants could play off that...Thats gone now..Like I said hopefully its just that teams have for the time being figured us out and we will have to go to adjust. I have faith in this coaching staff and quarterback that they will.

giantsfan420
12-16-2012, 11:18 PM
unless i see a marked improvement in his decision making......
i will have to say that this is what Eli has always been.,,, unpredictably hot and cold ,,
a year in year out 9-7 QB that was fortunate enough to play in , and be an integral part of...
2 realistically unlikely SB runs.
where you had helmet catches and Manningham Miracles and a defense that shows up in the playoffs.

i think he has benefited from the people around him more than anyone cares to realize.
he is not cool under pressure...he panics and makes bad decisions.
jam his receivers at the line or hurry him .....and he becomes a deer in the headlites....
with that confounded goober pyle look on his face.
read and react doesn't work in panic mode.
i have finally started to realize why they worry so much about pass protection....
it's because Eli folds under pressure.this is what ignorance looks like imo no offense. i just feel nothing u said is accurate

alentown pa
12-16-2012, 11:20 PM
this is what ignorance looks like imo no offense. i just feel nothing u said is accurate

srsly...manningham miracle???...that was one of the best passes I've ever seen

giantsfan420
12-16-2012, 11:23 PM
i was just explaining this to someone. the reason eli appears like hes locking onto a wr is due to a) he has to ensure the wr is going to run the correct route and b) he isnt getting the time to go thru his progressions. what looks like a qb locking onto a wr is eli is on his 1rst progression, senses pressure, and has to either take the sack or throw it to the 1 read he was able to make...remember our O predicates the wrs read and react to the D. eli just cant assume the wr is gonna be there, he has to kinda see it first. (HATE kgs system sometimes. when it doesnt work its brutal)


also, i think another huge factor is defenses know understand our philosophy with our wrs and what they do based on what the d is doing. my feeling is defenses are baiting the wrs into sight adjustments that actually bring the wr into double coverage, like the 2nd int. nicks took it inside, which happened to be where the safety ended up after showing a diff coverage himself...defenses are able to out think our wrs now on a lot of our passes. theyre jumping a ton of routes...smh

alentown pa
12-16-2012, 11:28 PM
i was just explaining this to someone. the reason eli appears like hes locking onto a wr is due to a) he has to ensure the wr is going to run the correct route and b) he isnt getting the time to go thru his progressions. what looks like a qb locking onto a wr is eli is on his 1rst progression, senses pressure, and has to either take the sack or throw it to the 1 read he was able to make...remember our O predicates the wrs read and react to the D. eli just cant assume the wr is gonna be there, he has to kinda see it first. (HATE kgs system sometimes. when it doesnt work its brutal)


also, i think another huge factor is defenses know understand our philosophy with our wrs and what they do based on what the d is doing. my feeling is defenses are baiting the wrs into sight adjustments that actually bring the wr into double coverage, like the 2nd int. nicks took it inside, which happened to be where the safety ended up after showing a diff coverage himself...defenses are able to out think our wrs now on a lot of our passes. theyre jumping a ton of routes...smh

I disagree with you about KG's system...but that is a great and I mean great point you made about Eli starring down recievers, and not having time to get into his progressions...I was complaining about this during the game, never thought about it like that..good stuff

BuffyBlueII
12-16-2012, 11:54 PM
I may be mistaken but when we played the Falcons last season, they covered Nicks and Cruz well. What threw them off was not only Eli completing passes to Hynoski but Hynoski getting 10 yards+ a reception.

As odd as this may sound but the 1st down Eli ran for in that playoff game was a huge momentum starter.

BuffyBlueII
12-17-2012, 12:01 AM
I disagree with you about KG's system...but that is a great and I mean great point you made about Eli starring down recievers, and not having time to get into his progressions...I was complaining about this during the game, never thought about it like that..good stuff

I think the system has a lot to do with it. Granted, Eli Manning has been off this season but the system our miserable OC uses does exacerbate it. I think it is time for a new OC and QB coach.

As I stated in a previous post, we may have seen the best we are going to from Eli last year. It is a possibility.

stormblue
12-17-2012, 12:12 AM
this is what ignorance looks like imo no offense. i just feel nothing u said is accurate

it's ALL accurate as to the "what".....9 years of the same thing is pretty obvious.
he has been as inconsistant as the weather forecast....

you can disagree with the "why" , as that is a matter of opinion.....and doesn't make me ignorant.
it just means you see Elite where i see a mediocre QB who has benefited greatly from those around him.
and insulting me will not change my opinion , nor will it make Eli any better.

stormblue
12-17-2012, 12:32 AM
srsly...manningham miracle???...that was one of the best passes I've ever seen

i never said it wasn't a good throw.....i'm saying it was a miraculous throw......and catch.
same with Tyree.
but those are the exceptions.. ..not the norm.

lifetime completions is less than 60%.....QB rating of 83.......and for every 4td's he throws 3 pics.
and yes,,,,i know ...2 rings.....and world peace.

nothing wrong with any of that.....he's our QB and we gotta take the bad with good.
but it doesn't change what he is.....a benefactor of his environment.
also a big contributor.....but more of a benefactor.

Roosevelt
12-17-2012, 09:59 AM
Yeah, but not just Eli. This is what happens when you depend on one guy to do most of the work all the time. You get knee jerk reactions like "Eli is unelite" "Mark Sanchez is better". That's not fair.

The quarterback is the most important player on the field. If we all are going to rave about Eli for all his 4th quarter TD's and comeback then it's only fair to get on him when he's not playing well.

We are not talking about one bad game here. This runs deeper than that.

Rudyy
12-17-2012, 10:03 AM
The quarterback is the most important player on the field. If we all are going to rave about Eli for all his 4th quarter TD's and comeback then it's only fair to get on him when he's not playing well.We are not talking about one bad game here. This runs deeper than that.I know that and I totally agree. I mentioned in the earlier part of the season how we need to stop with the 4th quarter comebacks. They are thrilling and exciting but you can't and won't always win games like that. Maybe us fans and players have gotten used to that. He's not playing well though, I agree.

Markroman
12-17-2012, 10:09 AM
He is not playing well but, who is?

I think Eli is really struggling with Nicks not being 100 per cent. Also, Cruz seems to give up on alot more routes than he did last year and looks a little contact shy. Manningam may have been a bigger loss than anyone imagined.

Brandon Jacobs was a big part of Eli's pass protection and with Bradshaw also hurting, I think Eli has lost alot of comfort in the pocket.

End of the day, nobody on the Giants is playing well.

BuffyBlueII
12-17-2012, 10:22 AM
i never said it wasn't a good throw.....i'm saying it was a miraculous throw......and catch.
same with Tyree.
but those are the exceptions.. ..not the norm.

lifetime completions is less than 60%.....QB rating of 83.......and for every 4td's he throws 3 pics.
and yes,,,,i know ...2 rings.....and world peace.

nothing wrong with any of that.....he's our QB and we gotta take the bad with good.
but it doesn't change what he is.....a benefactor of his environment.
also a big contributor.....but more of a benefactor.

How was it a miraculous throw when he has made that throw before. Heck, he made that throw to MM on the oppossite sideline earlier in the same game but MM dropped it.

Eli Manning is having a rough year. He is struggling and last year may have been the best we are going to see from him. However, the folks around him have been the ones that have prospered due to his contributions. Almost every season we are either in the lead or tied for the lead in dropped passes by WRs. We have an awful Oline that has never been anything to brag about even when it was acceptable. We are weak in the run game. We have one of the truly predictable and miserable OCs in NFL tthat refuses to gameplan according to adapt to the strength of the players but want them to adapt to his moronic system and he is protected by this coaching staff. We have veterans on defense that habituallu cry in media, givew effort when they want to and virtually have public love fests over players like Roach With Braids Reptile Dysfunction and Mike Vick to such a disgusting point that our coordinators and coaching staff futher handcuff our offense.

This team has some issues right now and hopefully they can get it together for this final run of the regular season. Another part of the problem is that so many expect Eli Manning to contribute and bail them out every week and it is obvious he is not able to do that right now. He may be soon but as of this point so far this season, he is not that person. It would appear that this team during our SuperBowl runs have relied heavily on his contributions.

BuffyBlueII
12-17-2012, 10:25 AM
The quarterback is the most important player on the field. If we all are going to rave about Eli for all his 4th quarter TD's and comeback then it's only fair to get on him when he's not playing well.

We are not talking about one bad game here. This runs deeper than that.

As much as I do support Eli, I have to completely agree with you. If we are going to praise him for all the comebacks, then we have to also acknowledge when is playing poorly and costing us. Eli hasnít really played well since before the bye. Sure he had some moments of brilliance where he has made some throws that are unreal but he has not played consistently good for quite some time now.

Roosevelt
12-17-2012, 10:36 AM
this is what ignorance looks like imo no offense. i just feel nothing u said is accurate

No reason to resort to insults when someone gives an honest opinion. You don't have to agree of course but instead of taking shots how about defending your position talking football?

Roosevelt
12-17-2012, 10:42 AM
As much as I do support Eli, I have to completely agree with you. If we are going to praise him for all the comebacks, then we have to also acknowledge when is playing poorly and costing us. Eli hasnít really played well since before the bye. Sure he had some moments of brilliance where he has made some throws that are unreal but he has not played consistently good for quite some time now.

I know you stated you thought this might be as good as Eli will be, but after last season I thought that was just the beginning. I am very disappointed to see what's happened with him this year.

And not to just single him out, because the majority of our team has let us down this year and that includes:

Cruz
Boothe
Snee
Deihl
Barden
Jernigan
Randle
Tuck
Osi
JPP
Canty
Kiwi
Joseph
Austin
Boley
Webster
and Tynes

Not to change to subject but yesterday was just an embarrassment.

Harooni
12-17-2012, 10:46 AM
people say eli is have a rough year or a bad year i disagree. this is eli and always was. (which isnt bad) he is more good then bad. but this is him. hopefully he catches fire if we get in.

GCGiant
12-17-2012, 10:51 AM
It amazes me how many people on this board who appear to have never played a down of organized football. Maybe if Eli had more than 3 microseconds to make a decision then he would make better ones.

If you think that Eli just comes out some days and plays lights out and then decides to take other days off...or anything close to that scenario...then you really don't have a clue. Eli will make mistakes, I'm not saying he never makes them. However, if he had any blocking at all, these things wouldn't happen nowhere near as often. Good blocking allows RB's to gain more yards, thus making the defense play honest, and good blocking also protects the QB so he has enough time to find the right option...at least most of the time.

Now...forgetting about the offense for a moment...you have to also look out on the field and see that the defense is full of problems of it's own. You can't say that one pick at the beginning of the game set the tone for the rest of the game. If that is true, then these guys are not pros but imposters. If they can let one thing go wrong and cause that to ruin the rest of the day then things look pretty bleak.

That was not a good team out there yesterday. If that team is the one that will represent in the playoffs, then I'd prefer they stay at home and watch the teams that want it more go out and compete in the playoffs. Yesterday was an embarrassment.

Harooni
12-17-2012, 10:53 AM
It amazes me how many people on this board who appear to have never played a down of organized football. Maybe if Eli had more than 3 microseconds to make a decision then he would make better ones.

If you think that Eli just comes out some days and plays lights out and then decides to take other days off...or anything close to that scenario...then you really don't have a clue. Eli will make mistakes, I'm not saying he never makes them. However, if he had any blocking at all, these things wouldn't happen nowhere near as often. Good blocking allows RB's to gain more yards, thus making the defense play honest, and good blocking also protects the QB so he has enough time to find the right option...at least most of the time.

Now...forgetting about the offense for a moment...you have to also look out on the field and see that the defense is full of problems of it's own. You can't say that one pick at the beginning of the game set the tone for the rest of the game. If that is true, then these guys are not pros but imposters. If they can let one thing go wrong and cause that to ruin the rest of the day then things look pretty bleak.

That was not a good team out there yesterday. If that team is the one that will represent in the playoffs, then I'd prefer they stay at home and watch the teams that want it more go out and compete in the playoffs. Yesterday was an embarrassment.

you have some points, but body language tells the story, when eli is feeling it you can tell by his tempo.

GCGiant
12-17-2012, 10:57 AM
you have some points, but body language tells the story, when eli is feeling it you can tell by his tempo.

I agree. When things are going good, then you can see it in his body language. He's like.."Yes...I'm getting time to get things done...and my RB's are gaining yards, taking some of the pressure off me!"

Yep...I've seen that look. I've seen body language from all the players. Eli is not the only one that will let you know things are going poorly when you see that shot on the sideline. Ever seen Brady frown or slump his shoulders?...or Peyton...or Brees? I have...many times.

Harooni
12-17-2012, 11:00 AM
I agree. When things are going good, then you can see it in his body language. He's like.."Yes...I'm getting time to get things done...and my RB's are gaining yards, taking some of the pressure off me!"

Yep...I've seen that look. I've seen body language from all the players. Eli is not the only one that will let you know things are going poorly when you see that shot on the sideline. Ever seen Brady frown or slump his shoulders?...or Peyton...or Brees? I have...many times. I don't think its the pass blocking, i didnt see anyone come free at him, the protection is there but there was a little confusion going on ,ill give you that. but also Eli looking for the short guy on 3rd down was a constant killer.

GCGiant
12-17-2012, 11:04 AM
I don't think its the pass blocking, i didnt see anyone come free at him

Then I contend that you were watching a different game. I saw him get planted a couple of times that I thought he might not get back up from. I saw him constantly having to move to buy time, even rolling out and throwing on the run. I don't think he prefers that type of passing like his dad did.

BuffyBlueII
12-17-2012, 11:05 AM
I know you stated you thought this might be as goods as Eli will be, but after last season I thought that was just the beginning. I am very disappointed to see what's happened with him this year.

And not to just single him out, because the majority of our team has let us down this year and that includes:

Cruz
Boothe
Snee
Deihl
Barden
Jernigan
Randle
Tuck
Osi
JPP
Canty
Kiwi
Joseph
Austin
Boley
Webster
and Tynes

Not to change to subject but yesterday was just an embarrassment.

Yesterday was disgraceful. Unfortunately, we have seen this type of effort and miserable play calling before.I highly doubt Mike Tomlin or Bill Bellichek would have tolerated that from their teams. However, it is not yesterday’s game that is going to be the one that stings if we don’t make the playoffs. The ones that will sting will be Philly game from earlier in the year and Washington game where our OC developed a gameplan tailormade to benefit Redskins. Those 2 games are the ones that are gonna sting. The only game that may sting more is if we beat Baltimore this week and Philly ends our playoff chances by beating us on the last game. That would really stink.

Lets not take anything away from Atlanta, they are a real good team and rarely lose at home but the effort on defense by us as well as Eli’s play was dissapointing. Our play calling was awful as was the decision to not use Wilson and Bennet as they should be for yet another game.

I guess I went off the subject so let me get back. Eli Manning is having a rough year. A real rough one and it is not just in the losses. He hasn’t been concistent since before the bye. I think it is his focus and decision making that is costing him this year. I also think that although our game plan and calling has always been predictable, it is virtually transparent this year. It is also as if we are trying to play a style of game without the personel that can play that type of game.

It is odd because when Eli is consistent like he was last year, he is one of the top 3-4 QBs in NFL but when he is bad, he is Jay Cutler bad.

I don’t know what to expect in the next 2 weeks but I hope that there is a huge change here and our team goes and out and leaves it all on the field. In order to do that, it has to start with Eli and he needs to play lights out from here on out.

AllHailEli
12-17-2012, 11:11 AM
Didn't he lose his quarterback coach? I'm not talking about Peyton Manning...but that too..lol

Roosevelt
12-17-2012, 11:11 AM
people say eli is have a rough year or a bad year i disagree. this is eli and always was. (which isnt bad) he is more good then bad. but this is him. hopefully he catches fire if we get in.

I thought '2011 Eli' was the player we were going to see for the next few years.

He himself said last year that he was entering the prime of his career.

Roosevelt
12-17-2012, 11:12 AM
Didn't he lose his quarterback coach? I'm not talking about Peyton Manning...but that too..lol

Yes, didn't he go to Tampa as OC?

BuffyBlueII
12-17-2012, 11:14 AM
I thought '2011 Eli' was the player we were going to see for the next few years.

He himself said last year that he was entering the prime of his career.

This is what I also thought. The frustrating thing is that the ceiling is so high on Eli. The guy has phenomenal potential and when he is on, he is as lethal as maybe only Peyton and Brady are. Lets hope that Eli comes back starting this week and carries in to the playoffs. I am not expecting it because I think there may be an injury he is hiding or something else that is off but I am hoping.

gumby74
12-17-2012, 11:17 AM
I thought '2011 Eli' was the player we were going to see for the next few years.

He himself said last year that he was entering the prime of his career.

I think we were all hoping for that. This was exactly when Brady and Brees turned into Supermen during their careers. Hopefully, Eli is just a late bloomer. But more and more it seems like 2011 was an aberration.

Roosevelt
12-17-2012, 11:18 AM
Then I contend that you were watching a different game. I saw him get planted a couple of times that I thought he might not get back up from. I saw him constantly having to move to buy time, even rolling out and throwing on the run. I don't think he prefers that type of passing like his dad did.

They should have called unnecessary roughness early on when they threw him down well after the pass. But that's a good point, they got to him early and maybe that took him out of his game a bit.

But then, look at San Fran last year. Nothing could take him out of his game.

It's very strange. It's like two different guys out there at times.

TroyArcher
12-17-2012, 11:18 AM
O-line is not as good as the past
Nicks is hurt
Cruz is fearful of going over the middle
Bennett has been OK but too many drops
Running game has been very inconsistent at best
And Eli has just played bad at times

Roosevelt
12-17-2012, 11:53 AM
He is not playing well but, who is?

I think Eli is really struggling with Nicks not being 100 per cent. Also, Cruz seems to give up on alot more routes than he did last year and looks a little contact shy. Manningam may have been a bigger loss than anyone imagined.

Brandon Jacobs was a big part of Eli's pass protection and with Bradshaw also hurting, I think Eli has lost alot of comfort in the pocket.

End of the day, nobody on the Giants is playing well.

Steve Weatherford

BuffyBlueII
12-17-2012, 12:10 PM
Didn't he lose his quarterback coach? I'm not talking about Peyton Manning...but that too..lol

This is kind of an odd statement you made but it may make a heck of a lot of sense. Last year Peyton Manning didn’t play. Now, of course he was involved with trying to help Indianapolis Colts offense but I am sure he had more time than usual and I don’t think it is far fetched to speculate that he watched NY Giants games more closely and more often. He more than likely spoke a lot more with Eli and probably was able to advise him on a regular basis. I know it sounds odd but so is the fact that the year Peyton is out, it is Eli’s best year and not just statistically but overall control and mastery of the game. The fact that there was not really a training camp also may have contributed to big seasons from a number of QBs because defenses didn’t get a chance to prepare.

BuffyBlueII
12-17-2012, 12:12 PM
I don't think its the pass blocking, i didnt see anyone come free at him, the protection is there but there was a little confusion going on ,ill give you that. but also Eli looking for the short guy on 3rd down was a constant killer.

Eli is not playing with confidence. I think that may be the big problem with him right now and is leading to bad decisions.

BuffyBlueII
12-17-2012, 12:15 PM
They should have called unnecessary roughness early on when they threw him down well after the pass. But that's a good point, they got to him early and maybe that took him out of his game a bit.

But then, look at San Fran last year. Nothing could take him out of his game.

It's very strange. It's like two different guys out there at times.

It is his focus and confidence that may be off this year. Also, it is not just him, most of the team looks bad. However, he is our leader and we win and lose with him.

stormblue
12-17-2012, 12:39 PM
'It amazes me how many people on this board who appear to have never played a down of organized football. Maybe if Eli had more than 3 microseconds to make a decision then he would make better ones.'

actually ,he is afforded as much or more time than most QB's
Eli is one of the least sacked QB's in the league....our protection is actually better than most teams.
and unless you have actually played on Sunday...
we are all equal (except me..i don't profess to be a guru)....Friday and Saturday are not comparable to Sunday.
and you don't need to be Joe Montana to see when a QB is hurrying their throws , throwing off the wrong foot
or forcing the the ball into double coverage......overthrowing , underthrowing.. or constantly letting the play-clock run
down to 1 second when the defenses are confusing him and he changes the protections....the defense can see
the play-clock too when it gets down to 1 they can pin their ears back knowing it must be snapped right now.
that **** is all on him. he takes way to long to make decisions.

EliDaMANning
12-17-2012, 12:41 PM
'It amazes me how many people on this board who appear to have never played a down of organized football. Maybe if Eli had more than 3 microseconds to make a decision then he would make better ones.'

he is afforded as more more time than most QB's
Eli is one of the least sacked QB's in the league....our protection is actually better than most teams.
and unless you have actually played on Sunday...we are all equal....Friday and Saturday are not comparable to Sunday.
and you don't need to be Joe Montana to see when a QB is hurrying their throws , throwing off the wrong foot
or forcing the the ball into double coverage......overthrowing , underthrowing.. or constantly letting the play-clock run
down to 1 second when the defenses are confusing him and he changes the protections.Why are you using sack totals to determine how much time a QB has to throw?

He is the reason why he's not sacked as often. If it was Rodgers behind our line the dude would be on his back every other play.

stormblue
12-17-2012, 12:53 PM
"Another part of the problem is that so many expect Eli Manning to contribute and bail them out every week .'

i'm not asking that at all.
all i'm asking is to be more careful with the ball.....
nobody is gonna be in the zone all the time...i get that...
but he could at least protect the ball and make better decisions.....instead of pouring gas on the fire.

sharick88
12-17-2012, 12:55 PM
It's obvious that something is up with Eli. I'm not sure what is going on but he has not looked sharp for a couple months now.

He's locking on to receivers, and he's just not throwing the ball well.

That first pick set the tone and we never recovered.

This is not to suggest that Eli is our only problem, because he's obviously not. But last year he carried this team for the most part. This year he's just not the same player.

To answer your question, nothing has happened to Eli. This is what he is. Brilliant and great at times and sorry at other times. He looked like Mark Sanchez yesterday.

PennState1
12-17-2012, 12:55 PM
An injured #1 WR who is, at best, 50%. A tight end just returning to health after 5 games at 50%. A WR who hears footsteps going over the middle. A total mess in the backfield. A below average offensive line with a left tackle beyond his prime and on a serious down hill slide.That's what's wrong with Eli.

gumby74
12-17-2012, 12:55 PM
To answer your question, nothing has happened to Eli. This is what he is. Brilliant and great at times and sorry at other times. He looked like Mark Sanchez yesterday. +1

GameTime
12-17-2012, 12:56 PM
An injured #1 WR who is, at best, 50%. A tight end just returning to health after 5 games at 50%. A WR who hears footsteps going over the middle. A total mess in the backfield. A below average offensive line with a left tackle beyond his prime and on a serious down hill slide.That's what's wrong with Eli.

so what happened during the packer game and the niner game and the other wins. They have been hurting all season in the area yuo mentioned.
Eli is sucking right along with everyone else. He is neither exempt form the siccess or the failures.

stormblue
12-17-2012, 12:58 PM
Why are you using sack totals to determine how much time a QB has to throw?

He is the reason why he's not sacked as often. If it was Rodgers behind our line the dude would be on his back every other play.

you are joking ...right ?
oh , i forgot how fleet of foot and mobile he is .
so now he's 'elite and elusive' ?

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 01:01 PM
at what point do people move past the notion that it could possibly be as simple as "its the qbs play" in our situation. There are so many multi layered ways to approach what is wrong with our Offense. Sure, Eli is a valid person to criticize for a lot of the stupid mistakes hes made, but I mean I think its way more than just Eli. I feel that way because I saw and have seen Eli play so lights out last year and for a lot of his career hes had great hot streaks. those damn cold streaks i think are indicitive that eli is a symptom of whats plaguing us, not that hes whats wrong with us.

i think part of it is, maybe we just arent as talented as we thought in a lot of areas on the team. I mean we all know the OL has struggled. But Nicks n Cruz combined for 6 catches for 55 yards yesterday. We dont have a 3rd wr option that is as dangerous to defenses as our first two wr's. it seems like we have no idea how to make adjustments.
i also feel that our offensive system, successful as its been in the past, is starting to be figured out by defenses. its a copy cat league and teams saw what BB did in the SB. We dont have that 3rd guy that in combo with say MB, gives us more than enough to win.

Eli is also a football genius. I believe he sees whats going on with the team(defense included) and has an understanding of the level needed so the team can overcome our flaws. last year, he was able to do it. this year,i feel there are too many issues compounded, and elis trying to do way too much and its fairly evident. our offensive scheme needs adjusting. way too much emphasis is placed on Eli and the Wrs to do way too much on a snap after snap basis. im not saying abandon the sight adjustment offense, but itd be nice if we could incorporate plays that dont require that as well. like I saw Pitt and NE run plays I KNOW are designed the way it was run, no sight adjustments to get open, the plays design in its totality does that by having route combos free up the actual target. I also saw them run plays that get rid of the ball quick, and design it like its a screen. Ex. Pitt runs this slant out of a 3 wide wr set with 2 wrs on bens strong side. Wallace basically just turns inside and runs a slant. hes not two steps before ben gets the ball to him. their slot wr, runs 5 yds up, knows the pass it out, and he blocked the DB. Wallace then was able to turn it in a big play. we need a lot more of that in our offense, so when defenses are baiting the wrs/eli into sight adjustments they think will get them open, but in reality leads them into double coverage and an int, we can adjust and keep moving.

yesterday was a blatant example of putting ur qb in a situation to fail. not succeed. at least imo. and we see way too much of that. i wish we could get josh mcdaniels or someone like him to run the offense. its sucks watching NE and GB even SF, hell pretty much every successful team has evolved. we are using the same system from like 2006...

TrueBlue@NYC
12-17-2012, 01:02 PM
you are joking ...right ?
oh , i forgot how fleet of foot and mobile he is .
so now he's 'elite and elusive' ?

Peyton is yearly one of the least sacked QBs' in the NFL, it's not because he's mobile, it's because he makes good protection reads and gets rid of the ball before contact. Eli does it the same way.

PennState1
12-17-2012, 01:02 PM
so what happened during the packer game and the niner game and the other wins. They have been hurting all season in the area yuo mentioned.Eli is sucking right along with everyone else. He is neither exempt form the siccess or the failures.The defense carried the team in those games.

PennState1
12-17-2012, 01:03 PM
And in the niner game it was a combination of D and the run game. Remember, we had a Bradshaw/Brown combo

GameTime
12-17-2012, 01:07 PM
The defense carried the team in those games.
oh so the points scored didnt matter...
look the team is ****ed on both sides of the ball......plain and simple.....

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 01:08 PM
you are joking ...right ?
oh , i forgot how fleet of foot and mobile he is .
so now he's 'elite and elusive' ?no offense but this is why i find nothing u say to be credible. theres actual studies and sites that focus solely on the aspect of how much time a qb has before sacked. Rodgers, gets rid of the ball on avg 2.5 seconds. however,on the plays he's sacked, he has an avg of 3.5 seconds. that means hes holding the ball an extra second on his sacks, and getting rid of it in time when hes not sacked. Eli, on avg. is sacked 2.5 seconds. Thats a full second less eli has, on avg, before being sacked. part of that is of course due to rodgers mobility. but a site like PFF broke it down, and in the face of pressure, at least last season and the first 6 weeks this season, eli was the best qb under duress statistically. and he was pressured, under duress a full 20% more than the 2nd most pressured QB. Eli, as was tried to explain to u, is just very good at reading defenses presnap and getting rid of the ball quickly.
Let me ask you, so you think our OL is the best in pass protection in the NFL bc eli is the least sacked? bc I actually see our OL and the sieve theyve become and the pressure eli is under, and i know the low sack numbers is in spite of our OL, not bc of them. this has been the case for some time and is a big part of the int numbers

gumby74
12-17-2012, 01:09 PM
at what point do people move past the notion that it could possibly be as simple as "its the qbs play" in our situation. There are so many multi layered ways to approach what is wrong with our Offense. Sure, Eli is a valid person to criticize for a lot of the stupid mistakes hes made, but I mean I think its way more than just Eli. I feel that way because I saw and have seen Eli play so lights out last year and for a lot of his career hes had great hot streaks. those damn cold streaks i think are indicitive that eli is a symptom of whats plaguing us, not that hes whats wrong with us.

i think part of it is, maybe we just arent as talented as we thought in a lot of areas on the team. I mean we all know the OL has struggled. But Nicks n Cruz combined for 6 catches for 55 yards yesterday. We dont have a 3rd wr option that is as dangerous to defenses as our first two wr's. it seems like we have no idea how to make adjustments.
i also feel that our offensive system, successful as its been in the past, is starting to be figured out by defenses. its a copy cat league and teams saw what BB did in the SB. We dont have that 3rd guy that in combo with say MB, gives us more than enough to win.

Eli is also a football genius. I believe he sees whats going on with the team(defense included) and has an understanding of the level needed so the team can overcome our flaws. last year, he was able to do it. this year,i feel there are too many issues compounded, and elis trying to do way too much and its fairly evident. our offensive scheme needs adjusting. way too much emphasis is placed on Eli and the Wrs to do way too much on a snap after snap basis. im not saying abandon the sight adjustment offense, but itd be nice if we could incorporate plays that dont require that as well. like I saw Pitt and NE run plays I KNOW are designed the way it was run, no sight adjustments to get open, the plays design in its totality does that by having route combos free up the actual target. I also saw them run plays that get rid of the ball quick, and design it like its a screen. Ex. Pitt runs this slant out of a 3 wide wr set with 2 wrs on bens strong side. Wallace basically just turns inside and runs a slant. hes not two steps before ben gets the ball to him. their slot wr, runs 5 yds up, knows the pass it out, and he blocked the DB. Wallace then was able to turn it in a big play. we need a lot more of that in our offense, so when defenses are baiting the wrs/eli into sight adjustments they think will get them open, but in reality leads them into double coverage and an int, we can adjust and keep moving.

yesterday was a blatant example of putting ur qb in a situation to fail. not succeed. at least imo. and we see way too much of that. i wish we could get josh mcdaniels or someone like him to run the offense. its sucks watching NE and GB even SF, hell pretty much every successful team has evolved. we are using the same system from like 2006...

No one is saying that Eli is the sole reason why we're losing as a team. But fact is, he's not playing well. Also, judgding a person's play based on his potential instead of what he's currently doing doesn't makes sense. Everyone has seen what a "hot" Eli can do. Whether he plays well or plays poorly, he's just inconsistent and deserves all of the criticism and praise he receives. People love Rodgers, Brady, Peyton, etc because they are consistently good.

Sorry dude, but every QB has to deal with his own challenges. Stop treating Eli like he's some special case.

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 01:11 PM
No one is saying that Eli is the sole reason why we're losing as a team. But fact is, he's not playing well. Also, judgding a person's play based on his potential instead of what he's currently doing doesn't makes sense. Everyone has seen what a "hot" Eli can do. Whether he plays well or plays poorly, he's just inconsistent and deserves all of the criticism and praise he receives. People love Rodgers, Brady, Peyton, etc because they are consistently good.

Sorry dude, but every QB has to deal with his own challenges. Stop treating Eli like he's some special case.how u went from what u wrote from what i wrote ill never understand. u completely misunderstood the part u highlighted. not even gonna bother to try and explain bc i think ull be the only person to comprehend that way

BurnerNYG
12-17-2012, 01:12 PM
Maybe he stopped taking his meds lol.

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 01:13 PM
lol i dunno how he went from me saying "sure, eli is valid to blame for the stupid mistakes hes made, but i think those are the symptoms of the issue and that he isnt the issue himself" to me trying to absolve him. i understand fully eli hasnt played his best, i think that theres reasons for it other than "eli is elite/eli isnt elite"

PennState1
12-17-2012, 01:14 PM
oh so the points scored didnt matter...look the team is ****ed on both sides of the ball......plain and simple.....When a defense dominates the way ours did it makes the job for the Zo much easier and We HAD A RUN GAME with Bradshaw, Brown and NO Deihl

GameTime
12-17-2012, 01:16 PM
When a defense dominates the way ours did it makes the job for the Zo much easier and We HAD A RUN GAME with Bradshaw, Brown and NO Deihl
either way....Eli sucked yesterday....plain and simple.
BTW....so did the rest of the team and coaches.....

gumby74
12-17-2012, 01:16 PM
how u went from what u wrote from what i wrote ill never understand. u completely misunderstood the part u highlighted. not even gonna bother to try and explain bc i think ull be the only person to comprehend that way

I did? You said. "It's way more than just Eli." followed by a run on sentence about how you feel that way because Eli is hot and cold, followed by that Eli is a problem caused by a much larger issue.

stormblue
12-17-2012, 01:16 PM
Peyton is yearly one of the least sacked QBs' in the NFL, it's not because he's mobile, it's because he makes good protection reads and gets rid of the ball before contact. Eli does it the same way.

i get what your saying ..but Eli is poor at it....slow decision making and slow release.
always runs the play-clock to zero...
whereas Peyton and Brady read and audible and snap the ball real fast ..keeping defenses on their heels.

i guess i'm just dogging Eli for it.....but i just don't like the read and react system.
its too time consuming and confusing to everyone out there.

how about we just get to the line and run the play that was called right down their throat before they can react.

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 01:17 PM
lol i dunno how he went from me saying "sure, eli is valid to blame for the stupid mistakes hes made, but i think those are the symptoms of the issue and that he isnt the issue himself" to me trying to absolve him. i understand fully eli hasnt played his best, i think that theres reasons for it other than "eli is elite/eli isnt elite"
When you say things like "Eli is a football genius" It makes you seem foolish.
Plus you did make your first statement claiming that Eli deserves criticism, and then you dissertate for paragraphs explaining how its really everybody else's fault.

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 01:17 PM
i get what your saying ..but Eli is poor at it....slow decision making and slow release.
always runs the play-clock to zero...
whereas Peyton and Brady read and audible and snap the ball real fast ..keeping defenses on their heels.

i guess i'm just dogging Eli for it.....but i just don't like the read and react system.
its too time consuming and confusing to everyone out there.

how about we get to the line and and run a play down there throat before they can react.dnt forget, brady and peyton run hurry up offenses. they have maybe 30 seconds to do what eli is given, what, 15 seconds max?

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 01:20 PM
When you say things like "Eli is a football genius" It makes you seem foolish.
Plus you did make your first statement claiming that Eli deserves criticism, and then you dissertate for paragraphs explaining how its really everybody else's fault.thats how u interpret it. and im sorry, eli is a football genius. he scored the highest on the wonderlic, and i dont think anyone can question his football iq/accumen. anyone that does so, just hates eli.
and sorry, u want me to edit out what i thought and put "its elis fault bc hes just not that good of a qb"? just not how i feel and i think my post is accurate.

Marvelousmik
12-17-2012, 01:21 PM
no offense but this is why i find nothing u say to be credible. theres actual studies and sites that focus solely on the aspect of how much time a qb has before sacked. Rodgers, gets rid of the ball on avg 2.5 seconds. however,on the plays he's sacked, he has an avg of 3.5 seconds.

none of this is credible unless you can at least show us some type of link.

"PFF stated that rodgers has the least time in the pocket than any other qb." See what i just did there?

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 01:21 PM
and besides, what does that have to do with him miscomprehending what he bolded himself? anyways, thats my opinion. if u feel otherwise, id like to read ur opinion on the matter. too often around here, issues arise bc of a difference of opinion. if u or anyone think im wrong, fine. just dont misapply what i said like was done above

PennState1
12-17-2012, 01:24 PM
Everyone hates Eli...until he wins and then they love him. LOL!!! 2 time SB champion and MVP! How short a memory our fans have. Would you rather have Dave Brown? Romo?

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 01:25 PM
I did? You said. "It's way more than just Eli." followed by a run on sentence about how you feel that way because Eli is hot and cold, followed by that Eli is a problem caused by a much larger issue.so what ur really saying is, u have a diff opinion. well id love to read it then. u feel its not way more than just eli, as u criticized my post and claimed i was trying to absolve him by stating hes a valid person to criticize for his stupid mistakes, but i think its way more than eli.
clears it up a little as to why u made ur post in the manner u did. next time u could just post ur opinion as to why u disagree instead of incorrectly assessing what i intended/implied and wrote

BurnerNYG
12-17-2012, 01:25 PM
When you say things like "Eli is a football genius" It makes you seem foolish.
Plus you did make your first statement claiming that Eli deserves criticism, and then you dissertate for paragraphs explaining how its really everybody else's fault.This place is pure comedy to me. I have a hard time even discussing football after some of the things I read. I hate biased and homer opinions and once I hear too many of them, I stop taking a person's opinion seriously. I still think they're alright as a person but I don't listen nor do I read most of their erratic, invalid, half a mile long theories. Eli is a genius... I never seen somebody have as many out of body experiences as he has. I wonder who's gonna show up to play next week. Defending him will make you look like a nut.

TrueBlue@NYC
12-17-2012, 01:27 PM
The whole offense has been struggling and Eli has been a big part of that. There's been a couple of things I've seen over the last couple of weeks.

1. The receivers aren't getting open like they have in the past. Bunches of times I see Eli scan the field only to see everyone covered. Obviously Nicks is having his injury issues, but that souldn't stop the whole offense. Teams are playing ALOT of cover 2 on us and rushing only 4 and it's killed the offense because

- Even with help the OL doesn't give Eli and the receivers enough time to break down the coverage (by spreading the zones) and get open.
- Our run game doesn't produce enough big plays to pull a safety (and the LBers) out of coverage, WHERE HAS THE PLAY ACTION GAME BEEN THESE LAST FEW WEEKS?

So when the defense can rush 4, drop everyone in coverage and still force the ball out quickly they're going to win alot. It worked for ATL, CIN and WAS because they have pass rushers, it didn't work for GB because Matthews was out and it didn't work for NO because they lack talent up front.

Another thing I've noticed is that when receivers have been open Eli has missed them. He's missed a few throws that he normally makes. Also, we've completely abandoned any sort of screen game either to the receivers or backs or really any passing to the RBs' at all.

I also think teams have kinda figured out our option offense a little. Seems like secondaries know how the receivers are going to react to their formations.

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 01:27 PM
thats how u interpret it. and im sorry, eli is a football genius. he scored the highest on the wonderlic, and i dont think anyone can question his football iq/accumen. anyone that does so, just hates eli.
and sorry, u want me to edit out what i thought and put "its elis fault bc hes just not that good of a qb"? just not how i feel and i think my post is accurate.
Its not a matter of interpretation. Its simply what you wrote.
You start with:
Eli deserves criticism and makes some stupid plays. Then you take 90% of the post to say:

1. the talent on the team isn't as good as we thought
2. The O line isn't any good
3. The scheme isn't any good
4. They run the wrong plays
5. Othere players on other teams make plays to help their QB, while ours don't. (which is a joke)
6. they put Eli in a position to fail

Oh yeah.....7. Eli is a football genius.

It always seems to come down to the "its everybody's fault but the QB" argument.

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 01:29 PM
Its not a matter of interpretation. Its simply what you wrote.
You start with:
Eli deserves criticism and makes some stupid plays. Then you take 90% of the post to say:

1. the talent on the team isn't as good as we thought
2. The O line isn't any good
3. The scheme isn't any good
4. They run the wrong plays
5. Othere players on other teams make plays to help their QB, while ours don't. (which is a joke)
6. they put Eli in a position to fail

Oh yeah.....7. Eli is a football genius.

It always seems to come down to the "its everybody's fault but the QB" argument. never said 5. and so what ur saying, i shouldnt post what i think. its not enough to say its valid to criticize eli and that hes made terrible mistakes. but i have to think they arise the same way u do? U basically just wrote that I shouldnt be allowed to write my opinion, and u tried to marginalize my opinion by turning them into whatever bs u wrote above. leaving this thread, have at it.

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 01:30 PM
what i wrote, is what i believe happened to eli manning. it is my opinion. u feel differnt, great. would love to actually see ur opinion instead of criticizing some one elses. "its everyone but the qbs fault" pls, im just not in the mood for the sophomoric drivel today. Thats what i said, its everyone elses fault. lmfao

gumby74
12-17-2012, 01:33 PM
so what ur really saying is, u have a diff opinion. well id love to read it then. u feel its not way more than just eli, as u criticized my post and claimed i was trying to absolve him by stating hes a valid person to criticize for his stupid mistakes, but i think its way more than eli.
clears it up a little as to why u made ur post in the manner u did. next time u could just post ur opinion as to why u disagree instead of incorrectly assessing what i intended/implied and wrote

I responded primarily to point out your logical inconsistency. Like I said, I don't think anyone is saying it's just Eli. And you ARE trying to absolve him as Morehead pointed out.

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 01:39 PM
I responded primarily to point out your logical inconsistency. Like I said, I don't think anyone is saying it's just Eli. And you ARE trying to absolve him as Morehead pointed out.yeah. bc i have OPINIONS that its MORE than just eli. Eli has not played near his best ball, has made terrible mistakes, and deserves the valid criticism. hes a hot and cold qb...i am so excusing eli and absolving him. he is perfect!...OR, i guess u expect everyone to think the way u do, and when a person asnwers WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO ELI, that is the question, u try and criticize my opinion while not sharing urs??? ooh ok. glad to see at least ur consistent even if eli isnt.


and lmao, u failed pointing out any logical inconsistency in my post while displaying it urself. this thread is about whats happened to eli, i listed what is i thought. ts my opinion. i dunno what ur looking for, but i wont oblige. peace

Marvelousmik
12-17-2012, 01:42 PM
Its not a matter of interpretation. Its simply what you wrote.
You start with:
Eli deserves criticism and makes some stupid plays. Then you take 90% of the post to say:

1. the talent on the team isn't as good as we thought
2. The O line isn't any good
3. The scheme isn't any good
4. They run the wrong plays
5. Othere players on other teams make plays to help their QB, while ours don't. (which is a joke)
6. they put Eli in a position to fail

Oh yeah.....7. Eli is a football genius.

It always seems to come down to the "its everybody's fault but the QB" argument.

+1 you beat me to it. but im still going to do my very own impression of 420. here we go


I admit Eli isnt having his best season, but

the play calling is horrible
the offensive line is horrible
the defense is horrible
eli cant be himself if he doesnt have time
guys arent getting open
the offensive system limits eli
he doesnt have enough weapons
eli is elite and he would play better than brady if they switched systems
eli is better than arron rodgers

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 01:42 PM
thats how u interpret it. and im sorry, eli is a football genius. he scored the highest on the wonderlic, and i dont think anyone can question his football iq/accumen. anyone that does so, just hates eli.
and sorry, u want me to edit out what i thought and put "its elis fault bc hes just not that good of a qb"? just not how i feel and i think my post is accurate.
there are no football questions in the wonderlic.
He's a smart guy who studies hard and works hard to prepare for games.
"Football genius"? .....Come on!

GameTime
12-17-2012, 01:43 PM
Everyone hates Eli...until he wins and then they love him. LOL!!! 2 time SB champion and MVP! How short a memory our fans have. Would you rather have Dave Brown? Romo?
first of all not everyone hates Eli.
secondly Eli has had great games and like you said two SBs and MVPs
THATS exactly why it pisses me off so much when he plays like ****. Yesterday loss was a total team breakdown. Eli started it and no one else could get it righted....

Harooni
12-17-2012, 01:44 PM
Then I contend that you were watching a different game. I saw him get planted a couple of times that I thought he might not get back up from. I saw him constantly having to move to buy time, even rolling out and throwing on the run. I don't think he prefers that type of passing like his dad did. yeah he is a reg romo out there

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 01:45 PM
The whole offense has been struggling and Eli has been a big part of that. There's been a couple of things I've seen over the last couple of weeks.

1. The receivers aren't getting open like they have in the past. Bunches of times I see Eli scan the field only to see everyone covered. Obviously Nicks is having his injury issues, but that souldn't stop the whole offense. Teams are playing ALOT of cover 2 on us and rushing only 4 and it's killed the offense because

- Even with help the OL doesn't give Eli and the receivers enough time to break down the coverage (by spreading the zones) and get open.
- Our run game doesn't produce enough big plays to pull a safety (and the LBers) out of coverage, WHERE HAS THE PLAY ACTION GAME BEEN THESE LAST FEW WEEKS?

So when the defense can rush 4, drop everyone in coverage and still force the ball out quickly they're going to win alot. It worked for ATL, CIN and WAS because they have pass rushers, it didn't work for GB because Matthews was out and it didn't work for NO because they lack talent up front.

Another thing I've noticed is that when receivers have been open Eli has missed them. He's missed a few throws that he normally makes. Also, we've completely abandoned any sort of screen game either to the receivers or backs or really any passing to the RBs' at all.

I also think teams have kinda figured out our option offense a little. Seems like secondaries know how the receivers are going to react to their formations.careful. ur "blaming everyone but the qb" but in seriousness good post i agree

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 01:46 PM
yeah. bc i have OPINIONS that its MORE than just eli. Eli has not played near his best ball, has made terrible mistakes, and deserves the valid criticism. hes a hot and cold qb...i am so excusing eli and absolving him. he is perfect!...OR, i guess u expect everyone to think the way u do, and when a person asnwers WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO ELI, that is the question, u try and criticize my opinion while not sharing urs??? ooh ok. glad to see at least ur consistent even if eli isnt.



and lmao, u failed pointing out any logical inconsistency in my post while displaying it urself. this thread is about whats happened to eli, i listed what is i thought. ts my opinion. i dunno what ur looking for, but i wont oblige. peace
Your posts are remarkably consistent. Ever since you've been on the boards you have said the exact same thing over and over, with nausiating repetition.
"Eli is great...and when he isn't its someone else's fault"

I only wish our QB was as consistent as you.

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 01:48 PM
The whole offense has been struggling and Eli has been a big part of that. There's been a couple of things I've seen over the last couple of weeks.

1. The receivers aren't getting open like they have in the past. Bunches of times I see Eli scan the field only to see everyone covered. Obviously Nicks is having his injury issues, but that souldn't stop the whole offense. Teams are playing ALOT of cover 2 on us and rushing only 4 and it's killed the offense because

- Even with help the OL doesn't give Eli and the receivers enough time to break down the coverage (by spreading the zones) and get open.
- Our run game doesn't produce enough big plays to pull a safety (and the LBers) out of coverage, WHERE HAS THE PLAY ACTION GAME BEEN THESE LAST FEW WEEKS?

So when the defense can rush 4, drop everyone in coverage and still force the ball out quickly they're going to win alot. It worked for ATL, CIN and WAS because they have pass rushers, it didn't work for GB because Matthews was out and it didn't work for NO because they lack talent up front.

Another thing I've noticed is that when receivers have been open Eli has missed them. He's missed a few throws that he normally makes. Also, we've completely abandoned any sort of screen game either to the receivers or backs or really any passing to the RBs' at all.

I also think teams have kinda figured out our option offense a little. Seems like secondaries know how the receivers are going to react to their formations.bump

TrueBlue@NYC
12-17-2012, 01:50 PM
careful. ur "blaming everyone but the qb" but in seriousness good post i agree

Eli certainly holds a big part of the blame. He's gets a good amount of blame for our RBs' never getting the ball because he doesn't check it down nearly enough, he'd rather force the ball downfield than dump it to a RB. Alot of times when he does concede it to the back, it's late in the play and too late for the RB to make a play to get more yardage.

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 01:51 PM
Your posts are remarkably consistent. Ever since you've been on the boards you have said the exact same thing over and over, with nausiating repetition.
"Eli is great...and when he isn't its someone else's fault"

I only wish our QB was as consistent as you.u are/ uve been acting like a self proclaimed know it all who feels hes important enough to put peoples opinions down way longer than ive probably even been alive. u r the model of consistency. me saying eli has played badly, the criticism for the stupid mistakes is valid, isnt good enough for u. ITS ALL ON ELI. HES JUST AN AVG QB AT THE END OF THE DAY WHOSE HOLDING BACK THE OFFENSE. there ya go champ, now u can go bother another person who makes the mistake of thinking differently than u. ur the equivalent to the "Eli Manning not elite" hall monitor around here lol

Harooni
12-17-2012, 01:52 PM
Your posts are remarkably consistent. Ever since you've been on the boards you have said the exact same thing over and over, with nausiating repetition.
"Eli is great...and when he isn't its someone else's fault"

I only wish our QB was as consistent as you.

http://www.protias.com/Pictures/Oh%20Snap/oh%20snap.gif

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 01:52 PM
bump
When a QB has plenty of time to throw and WR's are running open in the secondary..ANY NFL QB looks like a star.
Great QB's produce even when the protection breaks down and when they have to throw into tight windows.
Its called the NFL.

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 01:52 PM
Eli certainly holds a big part of the blame. He's gets a good amount of blame for our RBs' never getting the ball because he doesn't check it down nearly enough, he'd rather force the ball downfield than dump it to a RB. Alot of times when he does concede it to the back, it's late in the play and too late for the RB to make a play to get more yardage.yeah he looks to have regressed in some areas. he doesnt look as confident in the pocket or in the face of pressure. it seems hes having trust issues with something, whether player or scheme, who knows

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 01:54 PM
u are/ uve been acting like a self proclaimed know it all who feels hes important enough to put peoples opinions down way longer than ive probably even been alive. u r the model of consistency. me saying eli has played badly, the criticism for the stupid mistakes is valid, isnt good enough for u. ITS ALL ON ELI. HES JUST AN AVG QB AT THE END OF THE DAY WHOSE HOLDING BACK THE OFFENSE. there ya go champ, now u can go bother another person who makes the mistake of thinking differently than u. ur the equivalent to the "Eli Manning not elite" hall monitor around here lol
Ridiculous.
I have my opinions and I express them. And just like you I believe I'm right. When someone says something I disagree with I will say that as well.
I completely disagree with your view about our offense and Eli's culpability when it fails.

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 01:55 PM
yeah he looks to have regressed in some areas. he doesnt look as confident in the pocket or in the face of pressure. it seems hes having trust issues with something, whether player or scheme, who knows
"Trust issues"..Is a buzz term that means the WR's are to blame.

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 02:03 PM
The good news is if the world ends on Friday, we won't have to argue about Eli anymore.

RoanokeFan
12-17-2012, 02:05 PM
The good news is if the world ends on Friday, we won't have to argue about Eli anymore.

LOL

gumby74
12-17-2012, 02:06 PM
The good news is if the world ends on Friday, we won't have to argue about Eli anymore. Talking about Eli is what makes these boards fun!

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 02:07 PM
Ridiculous.
I have my opinions and I express them. And just like you I believe I'm right. When someone says something I disagree with I will say that as well.
I completely disagree with your view about our offense and Eli's culpability when it fails.thats fine. u werent doing that before, u were just making fun of me and saying i always blame everyone but the qb. thats why i asked u a week or so ago if u could cut down on the mocking/disrespect no matter how fun u think it is bc it almost always leads to getting away from talking football.i overreacted i guess but it wasnt like u were stating ur opinion and why u disagree with me, u were just trying to disqualify what i took time to write bc its what i do think and change it into the blanket statement "its everyone but eli"...

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 02:07 PM
Talking about Eli is what makes these boards fun!
I guess I should have added that the bad news is that we won't have to argue about Eli anymore..... as well.

Buddy333
12-17-2012, 02:08 PM
I don't think the pressure is getting to him. He is just off. Last year he knew was getting hit every snap against the 49ers and he looked sharp. He is just off right now. He was missing wide open guys when he had no one in his face yesterday. I actually believe he is better with pressure in his face.

Roosevelt
12-17-2012, 02:08 PM
lol i dunno how he went from me saying "sure, eli is valid to blame for the stupid mistakes hes made, but i think those are the symptoms of the issue and that he isnt the issue himself" to me trying to absolve him. i understand fully eli hasnt played his best, i think that theres reasons for it other than "eli is elite/eli isnt elite"

That argument would have more merit if Eli wasn't missing guys when he has time to throw.

We have gone from having one of the most dangerous passing attacks to one of the most inept.

It's very clear that Victor Cruz is not comfortable with Eli's high passes in the middle. Unlike Cruz, Kevin Boss didn't fear getting hit and we all what happened to his career.

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 02:08 PM
"Trust issues"..Is a buzz term that means the WR's are to blame.wow. its honestly not even worth it. peace out MS

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 02:08 PM
thats fine. u werent doing that before, u were just making fun of me and saying i always blame everyone but the qb. thats why i asked u a week or so ago if u could cut down on the mocking/disrespect no matter how fun u think it is bc it almost always leads to getting away from talking football.i overreacted i guess but it wasnt like u were stating ur opinion and why u disagree with me, u were just trying to disqualify what i took time to write bc its what i do think and change it into the blanket statement "its everyone but eli"...
I make fun of everybody and ask that others feel free to do the same to me.
Life is too friggin short to take this crap seriously.

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 02:09 PM
wow. its honestly not even worth it. peace out MS
OK...so you think I'm being silly. Why don't you explain what that means.

byron
12-17-2012, 02:12 PM
It's very clear that Victor Cruz is not comfortable with Eli's high passes in the middle. Unlike Cruz, Kevin Boss didn't fear getting hit and we all what happened to his career. that pass to Cruz could have got him killed as it was he took a good shot...I don't blame him for backing off that pass....

RoanokeFan
12-17-2012, 02:16 PM
Talking about Eli is what makes these boards fun!

I think that might depend on individual perspective :)

TrueBlue@NYC
12-17-2012, 02:18 PM
When a QB has plenty of time to throw and WR's are running open in the secondary..ANY NFL QB looks like a star.
Great QB's produce even when the protection breaks down and when they have to throw into tight windows.
Its called the NFL.

Actually great QBs' look like crap alot of the time when their receivers arent open and they have no time to throw. If they didn't, they'd never lose a game.

The same thing that teams have been using against us to stifle our offense is the same way we've stifled Brady and Rodgers the times we've beaten them.

Harooni
12-17-2012, 02:18 PM
I think that might depend on individual perspective :) no he is correct its fun for the realists when eli doesnt play well and fun for the lovers when he plays great they rub it in.

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 02:19 PM
That argument would have more merit if Eli wasn't missing guys when he has time to throw.

We have gone from having one of the most dangerous passing attacks to one of the most inept.

It's very clear that Victor Cruz is not comfortable with Eli's high passes in the middle. Unlike Cruz, Kevin Boss didn't fear getting hit and we all what happened to his career.yeah, eli has def missed some throws. but then i have to wonder, would a healthy nicks or a healthy WR make the catch? I also wonder why we didnt go downfield aside from that one shot really. Atl seemed to be sitting on the underneath stuff and jumping those types of routes. which goes back to the thought I have that teams understand our sight adjustment philosohphy and are baiting eli/wr into making site adjustments into double coverage. the 2nd int to nicks, Fokou shows one coverage, the DB on Nicks shows another, which signals to Nicks the in cut is there. Only, Fokou wasnt actually playing the defense the way he showed presnap, and neither was the DB on Nicks.
But I def have not liked that elis missed some open big play throws that frankly, he didnt miss last year.

JMGGIANTS
12-17-2012, 02:19 PM
I battle the internal conflict. Although I have not been very impressed with Eli for the last 6 weeks, besides the NO game I keep reminding myself of the bottom line which is 2 Super Bowls in 5 years. It is easy to lose sight of that when we have bad games and to practice patience, i.e. they may win out, get hot and then you know the rest of the story LOL.

Roosevelt
12-17-2012, 02:20 PM
there are no football questions in the wonderlic.
He's a smart guy who studies hard and works hard to prepare for games.
"Football genius"? .....Come on!

That's what I was thinking. I didn't think the Wonderlic had anything to do with football. It does have everything to do with intelligence in general and decision making.

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 02:22 PM
Actually great QBs' look like crap alot of the time when their receivers arent open and they have no time to throw. If they didn't, they'd never lose a game.

The same thing that teams have been using against us to stifle our offense is the same way we've stifled Brady and Rodgers the times we've beaten them.
In the NFL QB's often have to elude pass rushes and throw into small windows. To suggest that Eli can't perform unless conditions are perfect around him is actually a backhanded insult.

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 02:24 PM
That's what I was thinking. I didn't think the Wonderlic had anything to do with football. It does have everything to do with intelligence in general and decision making.
It really gauges a certain amount of intelligence but most its about problem solving in a short amount of time.
What it doesn't gauge however is split second decision making. Which is what is required as an NFL QB.

stormblue
12-17-2012, 02:24 PM
no offense but this is why i find nothing u say to be credible. theres actual studies and sites that focus solely on the aspect of how much time a qb has before sacked. Rodgers, gets rid of the ball on avg 2.5 seconds. however,on the plays he's sacked, he has an avg of 3.5 seconds. that means hes holding the ball an extra second on his sacks, and getting rid of it in time when hes not sacked. Eli, on avg. is sacked 2.5 seconds. Thats a full second less eli has, on avg, before being sacked. part of that is of course due to rodgers mobility. but a site like PFF broke it down, and in the face of pressure, at least last season and the first 6 weeks this season, eli was the best qb under duress statistically. and he was pressured, under duress a full 20% more than the 2nd most pressured QB. Eli, as was tried to explain to u, is just very good at reading defenses presnap and getting rid of the ball quickly.
Let me ask you, so you think our OL is the best in pass protection in the NFL bc eli is the least sacked? bc I actually see our OL and the sieve theyve become and the pressure eli is under, and i know the low sack numbers is in spite of our OL, not bc of them. this has been the case for some time and is a big part of the int numbers

where are these stats .....not saying you are wrong ...i would like to see them myself.
and i never said we have the best o-line... i said protection....we coddle him with it.
we keep our running back 2 feet away like a body guard.
and how can those stats be so true if we allegedly use a long passing attack
that actually takes MORE time to read react and develop.doesn't sound like quick release to me.
i think he rushes things in the face of pressure......footsteps.

and as far as my credibility goes ....who the hell are you to judge.....are you sitting in on the meetings ?
no ; you are just like the rest of us giving your opinions that you think don't stink.
you revel in your own self-righteousness in most of your posts.

there is no reason to insult people because they see things differently than you
demeaning others as a way of making your point is immature and narcissistic.

so just leave the personal sneers out of it....and just argue your point.

and

" it doesn't mean that much to me ..to mean that much to you "

(thanx to Niel Young for those sage words.)

RoanokeFan
12-17-2012, 02:24 PM
no he is correct its fun for the realists when eli doesnt play well and fun for the lovers when he plays great they rub it in.

That makes today a realists' day then?

GameTime
12-17-2012, 02:27 PM
This team has been built to run on Eli.....for better or for worse.
Regardless of WRs RBs, TEs, and OL....he is expected to play great. If he doesnt then they usually lose.
The D is supposed be built around the pass rush. That sucks and so does the rest of the D for the most part.
The team is so inconsistent is because they rely on two things only for success.....

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 02:28 PM
where are these stats .....not saying you are wrong ...i would like to see them myself.
and i never said we have the best o-line... i said protection....we coddle him with it.
we keep our running back 2 feet away like a body guard.

and as far as my credibility goes ....who the hell are you to judge.....are you sitting in on the meetings ?
no ; you are just like the rest of us giving your opinions that you think don't stink.
you revel in your own self-righteousness in most of your posts.

there is no reason to insult people because they see things differently than you
demeaning others as a way of making your point is immature and narcissistic.

so just leave the personal sneers out of it....and just argue your point.

and

" it doesn't mean that much to me ..to mean that much to you "

(thanx to Niel Young for those sage words.)um. im sorry i saw a couple of posts from u yesterday that may have given me a false sense about u as a poster. i may have confused u with a poster going around laughing at people and stuff of that nature. apologies if i offended u, my bad. but still, i disagree with ur last few posts. dont feel they were accurate. that isnt a personal insult or anything, i dont find ur last few posts credible...sorry if i worded that to offend u

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 02:29 PM
This team has been built to run on Eli.....for better or for worse.
Regardless of WRs RBs, TEs, and OL....he is expected to play great. If he doesnt then they usually lose.
The D is supposed be built around the pass rush. That sucks and so does the rest of the D for the most part.
The team is so inconsistent is because they rely on two things only for success.....
While I completely agree, I would also say that most offenses are designed around the QB. A few teams who have great running games are the exception.
In other words, in most offenses, if the QB plays poorly, the offense plays poorly. The excepts are places like Minn. and Houston.

Marvelousmik
12-17-2012, 02:30 PM
where are these stats .....not saying you are wrong ...i would like to see them myself.
and i never said we have the best o-line... i said protection....we coddle him with it.
we keep our running back 2 feet away like a body guard.

and as far as my credibility goes ....who the hell are you to judge.....are you sitting in on the meetings ?
no ; you are just like the rest of us giving your opinions that you think don't stink.
you revel in your own self-righteousness in most of your posts.

there is no reason to insult people because they see things differently than you
demeaning others as a way of making your point is immature and narcissistic.

so just leave the personal sneers out of it....and just argue your point.

and

" it doesn't mean that much to me ..to mean that much to you "

(thanx to Niel Young for those sage words.)

1. He complains about people insulting him and his opinions, yet he insults others and their opinions.

2. He claims he doesnt find you credible, yet he has yet to show us proof of what he claims to be true.

3. he claims that stats dont tell the whole story, yet the majority of the points he tries to prove involves statistics.

4. He says he acknowledges Eli isnt playing well, yet he makes every excuse possible for him.

All he does is contradict himself

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 02:31 PM
no he is correct its fun for the realists when eli doesnt play well and fun for the lovers when he plays great they rub it in.
I can tell you as a supposed "realist"...Its no fun at all when Eli plays poorly.

GameTime
12-17-2012, 02:32 PM
While I completely agree, I would also say that most offenses are designed around the QB. A few teams who have great running games are the exception.
In other words, in most offenses, if the QB plays poorly, the offense plays poorly. The excepts are places like Minn. and Houston.
yeah I get that...
But it seems with the Gaints there is no plan B if Eli is having a crappy day. That is in part due to lack of adjutemnts or whatever.
Like yesterday....passes over 10 yards not working. No short slants...no screens....no dump offs.....no nothing....as an example.
Giants have no plan B for the D or the O.....

RoanokeFan
12-17-2012, 02:33 PM
This team has been built to run on Eli.....for better or for worse.
Regardless of WRs RBs, TEs, and OL....he is expected to play great. If he doesnt then they usually lose.
The D is supposed be built around the pass rush. That sucks and so does the rest of the D for the most part.
The team is so inconsistent is because they rely on two things only for success.....

You seem pissed off

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 02:34 PM
1. He complains about people insulting him and his opinions, yet he insults others and their opinions.

2. He claims he doesnt find you credible, yet he has yet to show us proof of what he claims to be true.

3. he claims that stats dont tell the whole story, yet the majority of the points he tries to prove involves statistics.

4. He says he acknowledges Eli isnt playing well, yet he makes every excuse possible for him.

All he does is contradict himselfdude i got to tell u, with ur PMs, and following me around bc i hold a diff opinion than u, its lame. u injured again or something? spending ur time trying to track what i say and to who (btw, i apologized to him. i didnt realize the way i worded it was offensive. i dont find his post credible but shouldnt have worded it like that)is prob the lamest thing i can think of...i mean what r u trying to do with this post? i mean the PMs, these kinds of posts...like dude, i dont exactly consider this cool

btw, PFF wrote an article about those numbers i stated like a month ago. i dont find it important enough to go and look for it...but yeah man, u gotta get over this marv. i think elis a better postseason qb than rodgers, get over it already lmfaao

GameTime
12-17-2012, 02:35 PM
You seem pissed off

what ever would give you that idea.....

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 02:36 PM
yeah I get that...
But it seems with the Gaints there is no plan B if Eli is having a crappy day. That is in part due to lack of adjutemnts or whatever.
Like yesterday....passes over 10 yards not working. No short slants...no screens....no dump offs.....no nothing....as an example.
Giants have no plan B for the D or the O.....
Honestly..I've come to believe that Eli isn't very good at dumping the ball off or throwing screen passes. He's best when he throws the ball downfield.
When a QB is playing poorly and his confidence is down, those dump off passes can be the most dangerous.

But I guess you are right about adjusting our attack. I'm actually starting to get on the bandwagon of those who want to see more no huddle. I think it helps Eli's rhythm.

TrueBlue@NYC
12-17-2012, 02:37 PM
In the NFL QB's often have to elude pass rushes and throw into small windows. To suggest that Eli can't perform unless conditions are perfect around him is actually a backhanded insult.

I'm not saying things need to be perfect around him to succeed. What I'm saying is it's tough for any QB to succeed, even the great ones, when a defense can blanket your receviers by dropping 7 while you're still getting pressured by the fornt 4 as if the defense is blitzing.

Eli hasn't adjusted well to it, specifically when a defense plays alot of man-under like that he should be swinging out to the RB pretty quickly, but he's too focused on trying to get it into his receivers.

For someone who gets on people for over defending Eli, you yourself so far in this thread have only blamed Eli's play for the O's worries, you've gone to the other extreme.

GameTime
12-17-2012, 02:39 PM
Honestly..I've come to believe that Eli isn't very good at dumping the ball off or throwing screen passes. He's best when he throws the ball downfield.
When a QB is playing poorly and his confidence is down, those dump off passes can be the most dangerous.

But I guess you are right about adjusting our attack. I'm actually starting to get on the bandwagon of those who want to see more no huddle. I think it helps Eli's rhythm.
In both the Steeler game and yesterday the Giants showed 0 urgency. I just dont get that. It boggles my ****ing mind.
KG and TC praise Eli for his 4th quarter under pressure prowess and also running a 2 minute. Yet they NEVER use it as a change of pace...
WTF???? If I could ask TC and/or KG one question it would be that

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 02:39 PM
I'm not saying things need to be perfect around him to succeed. What I'm saying is it's tough for any QB to succeed, even the great ones, when a defense can blanket your receviers by dropping 7 while you're still getting pressured by the fornt 4 as if the defense is blitzing.

Eli hasn't adjusted well to it, specifically when a defense plays alot of man-under like that he should be swinging out to the RB pretty quickly, but he's too focused on trying to get it into his receivers.

For someone who gets on people for over defending Eli, you yourself so far in this thread have only blamed Eli's play for the O's worries, you've gone to the other extreme.nice post. i noticed that too. with teams who can get to eli rushing 4 (and wit our OL, thats not excluding many teams), we have a ton of problems scoring points and being consistent...if our run game could be a little more dangerous, it could potentially alleviate that issue

EliDaMANning
12-17-2012, 02:42 PM
yeah, eli has def missed some throws. but then i have to wonder, would a healthy nicks or a healthy WR make the catch? I also wonder why we didnt go downfield aside from that one shot really. Atl seemed to be sitting on the underneath stuff and jumping those types of routes. which goes back to the thought I have that teams understand our sight adjustment philosohphy and are baiting eli/wr into making site adjustments into double coverage. the 2nd int to nicks, Fokou shows one coverage, the DB on Nicks shows another, which signals to Nicks the in cut is there. Only, Fokou wasnt actually playing the defense the way he showed presnap, and neither was the DB on Nicks.
But I def have not liked that elis missed some open big play throws that frankly, he didnt miss last year.That Nicks pass was not easy at all. People make it seem as if every QB would hit that all the time. I saw Rodgers miss a wide open Jennings against us last post season and people found all sorts of excuses...Rust, timing, weather, etc.

I am not going to blame a QB for missing a tightly covered pass. Just like I won't blame Nicks for playing hurt. I just wish he would swallow his pride and sit out until hes 100%.

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 02:44 PM
I'm not saying things need to be perfect around him to succeed. What I'm saying is it's tough for any QB to succeed, even the great ones, when a defense can blanket your receviers by dropping 7 while you're still getting pressured by the fornt 4 as if the defense is blitzing.

Eli hasn't adjusted well to it, specifically when a defense plays alot of man-under like that he should be swinging out to the RB pretty quickly, but he's too focused on trying to get it into his receivers.

For someone who gets on people for over defending Eli, you yourself so far in this thread have only blamed Eli's play for the O's worries, you've gone to the other extreme.

Well I get your point. But my point is that it seems that if conditions aren't perfect, many posters are quick to offer that up as excuses for our QB. I'm saying that franchise QB's need to produce despite these things. I'm not saying that they should be just as productive, but they need to overcome less than ideal conditions on the field.
Eli showed some signs of this last season but I've seen far less of it this season. As a matter of fact I've seen some of the poor play and decision making that we saw very early in his career.
So ultimately my point is that you can't keep talking about how great he is, when truly great QB's produce even when others play poorly around him. And that excuse making, just demonstrates that those who portray him as a great QB, don't seem to hold him to standards that great QB's need to be held to.

Since I don't consider him a great QB, these kinds of performances don't frustrate me as much. I get that this is what he is.

Marvelousmik
12-17-2012, 02:49 PM
dude i got to tell u, with ur PMs, and following me around bc i hold a diff opinion than u, its lame. u injured again or something? spending ur time trying to track what i say and to who (btw, i apologized to him. i didnt realize the way i worded it was offensive. i dont find his post credible but shouldnt have worded it like that)...i mean what r u trying to do with this post? i mean the PMs, these kinds of posts...like dude, i dont exactly consider this cool

Last week you said eli is more consistent than rodgers and that i dont watch packer games, i just watch highlights. Since you're not allowed to post streams inside of threads I gave you a link to the packers game through a PM that way you could see for yourself. I dont find anything wrong with that. But thats fine, i wont PM you again.

But if i disagree with any of your threads or comments i will be right there to point it out. You consistently contradict yourself in the posts you make and this is a fact.

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 02:51 PM
Last week you said eli is more consistent than rodgers and that i dont watch packer games, i just watch highlights. Since you're not allowed to post streams inside of threads I gave you a link to the packers game through a PM that way you could see for yourself. I dont find anything wrong with that. But thats fine, i wont PM you again.

But if i disagree with any of your threads or comments i will be right there to point it out. You consistently contradict yourself it the posts you make and this is a fact.

How about the poster that said Eli makes throws that Rodgers can't make.
I love arguing about football, but some of these guys take the fun out of arguing about Eli. They just often aren't reasonable.

BuffyBlueII
12-17-2012, 03:08 PM
How about the poster that said Eli makes throws that Rodgers can't make.I love arguing about football, but some of these guys take the fun out of arguing about Eli. They just often aren't reasonable.Eli does make some throws that Rodgers doesn't. Eli also makes some bad decisions that Rodgers never makes.Eli is having a bad season right now but you seem to be pleased with that as usual.

Harooni
12-17-2012, 03:10 PM
Eli does make some throws that Rodgers doesn't.. thats true havent seen that 4 yard dirt pass from rodgers yet.

Toadofsteel
12-17-2012, 03:13 PM
thats true havent see that 4 yard dirt pass from rodgers yet.

I did a couple times...

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 03:15 PM
Eli does make some throws that Rodgers doesn't. Eli also makes some bad decisions that Rodgers never makes.Eli is having a bad season right now but you seem to be pleased with that as usual.
Why would I be pleased when the QB of my beloved team is playing poorly?
You have issues son.

BTW, I agree with your first statement. The left handed chuck into triple coverage doesn't seem to be in Rodgers arsenal. Nor is the lob into the DT's hands while going to the ground.

BuffyBlueII
12-17-2012, 03:15 PM
Doublepost edit.

BuffyBlueII
12-17-2012, 03:20 PM
Why would I be pleased when the QB of my beloved team is playing poorly?You have issues son.BTW, I agree with your first statement. The left handed chuck into triple coverage doesn't seem to be in Rodgers arsenal. Nor is the lob into the DT's hands while going to the ground.You always gleefully jump on and post when Eli does poorly.You have problems daughter.

LT Stands For Greatness
12-17-2012, 03:24 PM
Forgive me if this was already brought up, as 208 prior posts is a lot to read, many of the posts attacking each other, but I did not see this mentioned so far. There are some good points that people mentioned...but what about the fact that there have been changes in the coaching staff? The QB coach this year is Sean Ryan, who is in his first year as a QB coach? For the past 3 years, he was the Offensive Quality Control Coach. Two years before that, he was the WR coach. Last year, Mike Sullivan was the QB coach, and was QB coach for the '07 and '11 SB runs for the Giants. He is OC down in Tampa now. I know we all like to bash Gillbride, especially since his play calling can be head-scratching, from a fan point-of-view. But why can it not be some combination of everything discussed before, including the changes in the coaching staff?

BuffyBlueII
12-17-2012, 03:26 PM
Edit

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 03:32 PM
You always gleefully jump on and post when Eli does poorly.You have problems daughter.
No I don't. Thats a load of crap. Calling my mood after a loss as "gleeful" just shows that you don't understand true fans.

Roosevelt
12-17-2012, 03:34 PM
thats true havent see that 4 yard dirt pass from rodgers yet.

lmao.

Those passes piss me off to no end. lol.

burier
12-17-2012, 03:39 PM
lmao.

Those passes piss me off to no end. lol.

Those passes piss me off too.

It makes me wonder why if Rogers (or brady or breese or Rothlisburger) is so much better than Eli it never looks that whay when they're on the same field together.

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 03:42 PM
Those passes piss me off too.

It makes me wonder why if Rogers (or brady or breese or Rothlisburger) is so much better than Eli it never looks that whay when they're on the same field together.
Eli has never been on the field with any of those guys.

burier
12-17-2012, 03:44 PM
Eli has never been on the field with any of those guys.

sometimes I think you're a normal human being and then you snap me out of it.

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 03:45 PM
sometimes I think you're a normal human being and then you snap me out of it.
I'm better than normal....I'm "abnormal".

burier
12-17-2012, 03:46 PM
I'm better than normal....I'm "abnormal".

clearly.

RoanokeFan
12-17-2012, 03:47 PM
sometimes I think you're a normal human being and then you snap me out of it.

LMAO

Harooni
12-17-2012, 03:48 PM
Eli has never been on the field with any of those guys. rofl

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 03:51 PM
clearly.
To be more specific..."normal" is not what I'm going for.

burier
12-17-2012, 03:54 PM
To be more specific..."normal" is not what I'm going for.

Oh I'm quite clear on what you meant.

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 03:58 PM
Oh I'm quite clear on what you meant.
And I know that you got my point about Eli going up against opposing QB's on the field as well.......Right?

Imgrate
12-17-2012, 04:06 PM
Best qb in the league. Hands down. I'm just waiting til next season when everyone on espn will start saying it then you guys will agree with me.

BuffyBlueII
12-17-2012, 04:16 PM
No I don't. Thats a load of crap. Calling my mood after a loss as "gleeful" just shows that you don't understand true fans.I didn't write "loss," I wrote "when Eli does poorly." Learn reading comprehension you vile despicable creature. Lol......

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 04:31 PM
I didn't write "loss," I wrote "when Eli does poorly." Learn reading comprehension you vile despicable creature. Lol......
Well I'm as happy as a clam when we win, no matter how Eli plays. And I'm pissed off when we lose, no matter how Eli plays.


..and I don't think I'm vile....maybe despicable though.

BuffyBlueII
12-17-2012, 04:42 PM
Well I'm as happy as a clam when we win, no matter how Eli plays. And I'm pissed off when we lose, no matter how Eli plays...and I don't think I'm vile....maybe despicable though.Maybe just despicable even though you did tell folks about the bed wetting.

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 04:52 PM
Maybe just despicable even though you did tell folks about the bed wetting.
Actually..aside from a few posters here, there's only one person who thinks I'm despicable....and we're divorced.

Actually..she likes me fine as well. Morehead is irresistable.

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 04:55 PM
Last week you said eli is more consistent than rodgers and that i dont watch packer games, i just watch highlights. Since you're not allowed to post streams inside of threads I gave you a link to the packers game through a PM that way you could see for yourself. I dont find anything wrong with that. But thats fine, i wont PM you again.

But if i disagree with any of your threads or comments i will be right there to point it out. You consistently contradict yourself in the posts you make and this is a fact.thanks for reminding me abot ur comprehension issue of that thread. lol i never once said elis "more consistent" in fact i made a long post on how he isnt, at all, in the regular season. I believe eli is a better postseason qb. but thats still besdies the point. i forgot u were referring to the thread i made about brees having a terrible slump and no one applying the same standard to him. u for some reason thought that meant I made the post bc eli had a good game??? to the list of other just completely off base assumptions u made.
i honestly could care less what u consider fact bc u have a hard enough time just comprehending posts. i dont doubt in ur mind u really believe i said eli was more consistent, ur posts indicate to me thats prob par for the course with u. but for the last time, so we can put an end to the kind of posts uve been making (that one u listed 1-5 about what kinda person i am had me lmao), Rodgers, by far, is the more consistent regular season qb. hes by far the better statistical qb. Eli, imo *which ive prefaced a 1000x and I dunno if its my opinion that bothers u or that my opinion doesnt match urs*, is the better playoff QB who has the ability to play as good as any qb.
if u cant grasp that, sorry. but i hardly think that warrants u tracking my posts so u can try and a) attack me, which I didnt appreciate it, and b) follow posts around trying to look for contradictions. Granted, I know in ur mind u truly believe u dont make contradictions, I know I do and dont need u trying to paint me in the manner uve been trying to, solely bc bro, honestly, u didnt understand the thread. there was a 1/2 dozen other posters in that thread trying to explain to u what u werent comprehending or understanding.
so we good now, the PMs and posts like the one u made earlier are done now right?

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 04:59 PM
thanks for reminding me abot ur comprehension issue of that thread. lol i never once said elis "more consistent" in fact i made a long post on how he isnt, at all, in the regular season. I believe eli is a better postseason qb. but thats still besdies the point. i forgot u were referring to the thread i made about brees having a terrible slump and no one applying the same standard to him. u for some reason thought that meant I made the post bc eli had a good game??? to the list of other just completely off base assumptions u made.
i honestly could care less what u consider fact bc u have a hard enough time just comprehending posts. i dont doubt in ur mind u really believe i said eli was more consistent, ur posts indicate to me thats prob par for the course with u. but for the last time, so we can put an end to the kind of posts uve been making (that one u listed 1-5 about what kinda person i am had me lmao), Rodgers, by far, is the more consistent regular season qb. hes by far the better statistical qb. Eli, imo *which ive prefaced a 1000x and I dunno if its my opinion that bothers u or that my opinion doesnt match urs*, is the better playoff QB who has the ability to play as good as any qb.
if u cant grasp that, sorry. but i hardly think that warrants u tracking my posts so u can try and a) attack me, which I didnt appreciate it, and b) follow posts around trying to look for contradictions. Granted, I know in ur mind u truly believe u dont make contradictions, I know I do and dont need u trying to paint me in the manner uve been trying to, solely bc bro, honestly, u didnt understand the thread. there was a 1/2 dozen other posters in that thread trying to explain to u what u werent comprehending or understanding.
so we good now, the PMs and posts like the one u made earlier are done now right?

Man you write long winded posts.
All you have to write is:

"Eli's great and if you disagree you suck!"


Its not that hard...Keep it concise.

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 05:00 PM
Those passes piss me off too.

It makes me wonder why if Rogers (or brady or breese or Rothlisburger) is so much better than Eli it never looks that whay when they're on the same field together.terrific point. wow its rare something encapsultes the opposing arguments so well but u hit her out of the park. And MS, Ive always said eli can make every throw required from a qb. Marv or u is mistaking the "makes every throw" comment with rodgers when it was made about rg3. and i still maintain that. he is asked to make every kind of throw. they dont need to when they have success with the 3 routes they do run, the go, the slant, and the crossing patterns.
rodgers is an amazing reg. season qb, but i have yet to see him play as well in the postseason as he did in the reg season. even in their SB run, rodgers was not the same qb he was during the reg season.

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 05:01 PM
Man you write long winded posts.
All you have to write is:

"Eli isnt great and if you disagree you suck!"


Its not that hard...Keep it concise.fixed it to represent reality

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 05:04 PM
Marv is bringing up a comment he misunderstood in a thread I made about brees being in a terrible slump and how no one knee jerked responses about him. he seemed to misunderstand me spending like 5 posts that its completely logical and rational to rank rodgers ahead of eli. i do too in the reg season. in the postseason (which i weigh more heavily than reg season success) tho, i feel eli becomes the better qb. that somehow melted his mental circuit and hes been following me around trying to prove to me he watches GB games bc he feels rodgers doesnt make bad throws or get in slumps which i responded ur not watching enough of him then bc all qbs do those things. hes turned that into "im contradicting myself" a dozen posts now

Imgrate
12-17-2012, 05:16 PM
You guys don't understand. Eli is the best qb in the nfl. Stop arguing!

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 05:18 PM
fixed it to represent reality
Hah! Fair enough.

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 05:20 PM
Marv is bringing up a comment he misunderstood in a thread I made about brees being in a terrible slump and how no one knee jerked responses about him. he seemed to misunderstand me spending like 5 posts that its completely logical and rational to rank rodgers ahead of eli. i do too in the reg season. in the postseason (which i weigh more heavily than reg season success) tho, i feel eli becomes the better qb. that somehow melted his mental circuit and hes been following me around trying to prove to me he watches GB games bc he feels rodgers doesnt make bad throws or get in slumps which i responded ur not watching enough of him then bc all qbs do those things. hes turned that into "im contradicting myself" a dozen posts now

Rodgers had one of the greatest playoff runs a QB has ever had. All the way to a SB championship.
I would also submit that he's never had playoff games as bad as Eli's in 2005 and 2008.
Just keeping it real.

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 05:22 PM
Rodgers had one of the greatest playoff runs a QB has ever had. All the way to a SB championship.
I would also submit that he's never had playoff games as bad as Eli's in 2005 and 2008.
Just keeping it real.huh? he threw 2 picks in the nfc cg. he threw a couple ints vs atl iirc...he def didnt have close to the postseason runs elis had or play to the level he did in the reg season but thats just my opinion. ill look up the stats and post him for ****s n giggles

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 05:25 PM
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Y/A AY/A Att Yds Y/A TD TD Pts
3 2010 17 2011-01-09 27-038 GNB @ PHI W 21-16 * 18 27 66.7% 180 3 0 122.5 6.67 8.89 3 4 1.33 0 0 0
4 2010 18 2011-01-15 27-044 GNB @ ATL W 48-21 * 31 36 86.1% 366 3 0 136.8 10.17 11.83 2 13 6.50 1 1 6
5 2010 19 2011-01-23 27-052 GNB @ CHI W 21-14 * 17 30 56.7% 244 0 2 55.4 8.13 5.13 7 39 5.57 1 1 6
6 2010 20 2011-02-06 27-066 GNB N PIT W 31-25 * 24 39 61.5% 304 3 0 111.5 7.79 9.33 2 -2 -1.00 0 0 0



i stand corrected. he did have a remarkable postseason but he did play badly in the nfc cg. wow i have to admit i had rodgers as a postseason qb rated too low. i had let that nfc cg weigh too heavily. that is an impressive run. i still would rank eli higher as a postseason qb bc hes done it 2x to rodgers 1. and eli beat rodgers h2h in lambau, and the nfc cg factors in too, but i def cant say some one who ranks rodgers the better postseason qb as being wrong the argument is def fair. just personal preference

Imgrate
12-17-2012, 05:25 PM
Eli is the best. Wait til next year when all espn says it. Next year

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 07:39 PM
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Y/A AY/A Att Yds Y/A TD TD Pts
3 2010 17 2011-01-09 27-038 GNB @ PHI W 21-16 * 18 27 66.7% 180 3 0 122.5 6.67 8.89 3 4 1.33 0 0 0
4 2010 18 2011-01-15 27-044 GNB @ ATL W 48-21 * 31 36 86.1% 366 3 0 136.8 10.17 11.83 2 13 6.50 1 1 6
5 2010 19 2011-01-23 27-052 GNB @ CHI W 21-14 * 17 30 56.7% 244 0 2 55.4 8.13 5.13 7 39 5.57 1 1 6
6 2010 20 2011-02-06 27-066 GNB N PIT W 31-25 * 24 39 61.5% 304 3 0 111.5 7.79 9.33 2 -2 -1.00 0 0 0



i stand corrected. he did have a remarkable postseason but he did play badly in the nfc cg. wow i have to admit i had rodgers as a postseason qb rated too low. i had let that nfc cg weigh too heavily. that is an impressive run. i still would rank eli higher as a postseason qb bc hes done it 2x to rodgers 1. and eli beat rodgers h2h in lambau, and the nfc cg factors in too, but i def cant say some one who ranks rodgers the better postseason qb as being wrong the argument is def fair. just personal preference

QB's don't play each other head to head. One plays against the other's defense with the players they have.

giantsfan420
12-17-2012, 09:27 PM
QB's don't play each other head to head. One plays against the other's defense with the players they have.do i really have to look thru that simms thread for where u were posting how simms had beaten marino, montana, etc etc h2h? i understand ur point and clearly its true to a point. but people will always look at it as a battle of qb and what he did vs qb and what he did

Morehead State
12-17-2012, 09:30 PM
do i really have to look thru that simms thread for where u were posting how simms had beaten marino, montana, etc etc h2h? i understand ur point and clearly its true to a point. but people will always look at it as a battle of qb and what he did vs qb and what he did
Knock yourself out.

I'm flattered by your Morehead obsession.

dbreiden83080
12-17-2012, 09:42 PM
What's happened to the so called pass rush?
What's happened to our Kicker?
Why does the secondary get burned for one big play after another?
Why am i experiencing a burning sensation between my toes?

GameTime
12-17-2012, 09:45 PM
Why am i experiencing a burning sensation between my toes?
tough actin' Tinactin'...
BOOM!!!!

Roosevelt
12-17-2012, 10:00 PM
What's happened to the so called pass rush?
What's happened to our Kicker?
Why does the secondary get burned for one big play after another?
Why am i experiencing a burning sensation between my toes?

Athlete's foot?

Roosevelt
12-17-2012, 10:01 PM
tough actin' Tinactin'...
BOOM!!!!

You beat me to it GT. lol.

MikeSherrard
12-17-2012, 10:05 PM
I think he misses a reliable #3 target........last year Cruz was the #3....a few years ago Steve Smith was the #3

this year they have none

Marvelousmik
12-17-2012, 11:20 PM
thanks for reminding me abot ur comprehension issue of that thread. lol i never once said elis "more consistent" in fact i made a long post on how he isnt, at all, in the regular season. I believe eli is a better postseason qb. but thats still besdies the point. i forgot u were referring to the thread i made about brees having a terrible slump and no one applying the same standard to him. u for some reason thought that meant I made the post bc eli had a good game??? to the list of other just completely off base assumptions u made.
i honestly could care less what u consider fact bc u have a hard enough time just comprehending posts. i dont doubt in ur mind u really believe i said eli was more consistent, ur posts indicate to me thats prob par for the course with u. but for the last time, so we can put an end to the kind of posts uve been making (that one u listed 1-5 about what kinda person i am had me lmao), Rodgers, by far, is the more consistent regular season qb. hes by far the better statistical qb. Eli, imo *which ive prefaced a 1000x and I dunno if its my opinion that bothers u or that my opinion doesnt match urs*, is the better playoff QB who has the ability to play as good as any qb.
if u cant grasp that, sorry. but i hardly think that warrants u tracking my posts so u can try and a) attack me, which I didnt appreciate it, and b) follow posts around trying to look for contradictions. Granted, I know in ur mind u truly believe u dont make contradictions, I know I do and dont need u trying to paint me in the manner uve been trying to, solely bc bro, honestly, u didnt understand the thread. there was a 1/2 dozen other posters in that thread trying to explain to u what u werent comprehending or understanding.
so we good now, the PMs and posts like the one u made earlier are done now right?


Sigh..

Let me exaggerate the concept real quick in order for you to understand.


If eli threw 15 interceptions and 12 pick sixes vs the saints, and we lost, would you have made a thread saying "it would be stupid to say brees isnt elite because of a slump?" if you did, then you would take a lot of heat mainly because eli has looked far worse during his slumps and we would have been coming off of one of the worst games a qb has ever had.

Here is the same concept minus the huge exaggeration. Eli threw 2 picks and one was a pick 6. he also threw a few more passes that could have easily been intercepted. Because he had 4 touchdowns that game some people are under the impression that he played great (you), and you even admitted to him playing great like the old "money eli". You later stated the opposite as usual and said you think he is still in a little bit of a slump but thats a story for another time.

If we would have lost and brees would have won you would have looked silly making that thread in order to defend eli. this is why i have reason to believe part (not the whole reason) but part of the reason you made that thread was because you thought eli bounced back and had a good game. thats why i asked you if you thought he played good, and you said yes he played great. The whole reason behind me asking you if eli played good had nothing to do with me not comprehending what the original post was about, even if the discussion went a little off topic. If you dont understand this then i dont know what else to say.

You also tried to make a case that eli was more consistent by talking about eli vs rodgers in the 4th quarter and in the playoffs. you even used the word consistent in your argument (i am sure the mods can who back and check). I am not just making this up. You also spoke about their numbers when under pressure and said that eli was better. this was part of your base line argument when stating that eli was the better all around QB.

I find it funny how you typed all of that out with the belief that you are right and i am the crazy one. The person who is really having comprehensions issues is you my friend:D. Before you come out and act like everyone else is crazy and you're the only one who knows what they're talking about just think of these 3 things.

1.you stated i couldnt comprehend what your thread was about and you were wrong.
2. you said you didnt try to claim eli was more consistent and you are wrong.
3. You think that Eli is a better all around quarterback than aaron rodgers.

Marvelousmik
12-17-2012, 11:33 PM
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Y/A AY/A Att Yds Y/A TD TD Pts
3 2010 17 2011-01-09 27-038 GNB @ PHI W 21-16 * 18 27 66.7% 180 3 0 122.5 6.67 8.89 3 4 1.33 0 0 0
4 2010 18 2011-01-15 27-044 GNB @ ATL W 48-21 * 31 36 86.1% 366 3 0 136.8 10.17 11.83 2 13 6.50 1 1 6
5 2010 19 2011-01-23 27-052 GNB @ CHI W 21-14 * 17 30 56.7% 244 0 2 55.4 8.13 5.13 7 39 5.57 1 1 6
6 2010 20 2011-02-06 27-066 GNB N PIT W 31-25 * 24 39 61.5% 304 3 0 111.5 7.79 9.33 2 -2 -1.00 0 0 0



i stand corrected. he did have a remarkable postseason but he did play badly in the nfc cg. wow i have to admit i had rodgers as a postseason qb rated too low. i had let that nfc cg weigh too heavily. that is an impressive run. i still would rank eli higher as a postseason qb bc hes done it 2x to rodgers 1. and eli beat rodgers h2h in lambau, and the nfc cg factors in too, but i def cant say some one who ranks rodgers the better postseason qb as being wrong the argument is def fair. just personal preference

if the arguement for rodgers being the better post season qb is fair and the argument for Rodgers being the better regular season Qb is pretty clear cut, how is Eli the better All around qb?

Who do you think is the more all around consistent qb?

Diamondring
12-17-2012, 11:35 PM
Oh there is nothing wrong with him. Might be bored and wants to get home to his little girl and do it more with wife. Also it is his brother turn to win another Superbowl.

BillTheGreek
12-17-2012, 11:40 PM
Yes Eli had a bad day ! as did the rest of the GMen. Eli will Bounce Back and Win the remaining 2 Games , Then we will see how the GMen do for the Play offs !












There’s always somebody saying that Giants can’t do it, and those people have to be ignored.

Never underestimate the GIANTS !