PDA

View Full Version : Defensive Talent???



GMENAGAIN
12-17-2012, 11:46 AM
The fire Fewell threads/posts since yesterday rely on the premise that we have such great talent on defense that our defensive problems have to be the DC's fault.

Am I missing something here? Where is this defensive talent that Fewell is supposed to work with?

2 out of 3 of our top pass rushers are completely shot. Webster is on the downside of his career. Our LB's are awful. One of our starting safeties can't stay on the field because of chronic knee problems. And to top it off yesterday, one of our starting CB's was out.

I just don't see it. I'm not sure what Fewell can do to make this defense better when it gets zero pass rush. Blitz more with half of the starting secondary out?

Please enlighten me.

Toadofsteel
12-17-2012, 11:48 AM
I don't get the fewell hate when the loss was primarily on KILLDRIVE... Fewell had to do more with less talent, Killdrive took the superior talent he had off the field...

Jahh
12-17-2012, 11:49 AM
We praise Reese because he brings in so much talent. But we protect the coaches because we don't have that much talent. Which is it? Do we or don't we have a talented team?

dezzzR
12-17-2012, 11:49 AM
Prince, Rolle, KP, Webster, all first round picks. Granted Prince and Kp are injured at the moment, but there is talent on this defense and they are underperforming. Even when healthy theyre still not great against the pass.

Toadofsteel
12-17-2012, 11:52 AM
We praise Reese because he brings in so much talent. But we protect the coaches because we don't have that much talent. Which is it? Do we or don't we have a talented team?

We had great talent at the start of the season. On paper, a nickel setup with Prince, Webster, Phillips, Rolle, and Stevie is not half-bad. Only weak link is Webster. Tuck and Osi deciding to not show up and 3 of those 5 starting secondary players getting injured didn't help.

On offense, Locklear and Brown getting hurt basically gimped our offense. And both are out for the season at this point... But the main credit goes to Killdrive for trying to force players into his style rather than adapting it.

JR did his job. Injuries and poor coaching on offense undid that work.

GMENAGAIN
12-17-2012, 11:55 AM
Prince, Rolle, KP, Webster, all first round picks. Granted Prince and Kp are injured at the moment, but there is talent on this defense and they are underperforming. Even when healthy theyre still not great against the pass.

Webster is clearly on the downside; KP can't stay on the field and Prince was out yesterday.

GMENAGAIN
12-17-2012, 11:56 AM
We praise Reese because he brings in so much talent. But we protect the coaches because we don't have that much talent. Which is it? Do we or don't we have a talented team?

You tell me. This thread isn't about Reese.

stormblue
12-17-2012, 12:07 PM
well , i'm no defensive guru , but if you don't have a natural pass rush
with 4 linemen then you need to be creative and dial something up.
today's QB's are going to carve you up if you don't get in their grill.

we get burned anyway ....so why not blitz anyway.

but i don't think we have blue chip defensive players.....as you already pointed out.

and please tell me why when i watch other teams run against us .....there are holes everywhere...
does anyone on the D-line have more than 10 tackles this year ?
but when we run it looks we are running straight into a heard of buffalo.

so i guess the truth is , we have mainly pedestrian players combined with mediocre coaching.

dezzzR
12-17-2012, 12:07 PM
Webster is clearly on the downside; KP can't stay on the field and Prince was out yesterday.Well, to be fair too Webster, Fewell leaves him with out safety help a lot, and hes not as good in zone as he is in man. Also, the corners arent jamming anyone anymore. They did for like a game or two and now...nada.

You asked if we have talent, injuries aside, yes we do.

This is Fewells 3rd year and we still have serious miscues in the secondary.

BlueReign
12-17-2012, 12:10 PM
The effort, especially from the front 4, just doesn't appear to be there. I do think missing KP hurts sorely, and Prince is much better than Hosely, but it is Fewell's job to account for this and make the necessary adjustments. There's blame all around, not just on one person.

gumby74
12-17-2012, 01:01 PM
Put it this way. Spags did a lot more with a lot less in 2008.

GMENAGAIN
12-17-2012, 02:03 PM
Put it this way. Spags did a lot more with a lot less in 2008.
Disagree. Spags had a much better pass rush.

GMENAGAIN
12-17-2012, 02:04 PM
well , i'm no defensive guru , but if you don't have a natural pass rush
with 4 linemen then you need to be creative and dial something up.
today's QB's are going to carve you up if you don't get in their grill.

we get burned anyway ....so why not blitz anyway.

but i don't think we have blue chip defensive players.....as you already pointed out.

and please tell me why when i watch other teams run against us .....there are holes everywhere...
does anyone on the D-line have more than 10 tackles this year ?
but when we run it looks we are running straight into a heard of buffalo.

so i guess the truth is , we have mainly pedestrian players combined with mediocre coaching.

I also don't understand our inability to stop the run. If Linval Joseph is so great, why are teams just gouging us up the middle?

Toadofsteel
12-17-2012, 02:05 PM
Disagree. Spags had a much better pass rush.

All things considered, if you put Strahan and JPP as about equal, plus you have a much younger and hungry Tuck and Osi, and that pass rush actually gets to the QB.

Also Webby was a rookie and not washed out.

GMENAGAIN
12-17-2012, 02:08 PM
All things considered, if you put Strahan and JPP as about equal, plus you have a much younger and hungry Tuck and Osi, and that pass rush actually gets to the QB.

Also Webby was a rookie and not washed out.

Webby wasn't a rookie, it was just the first year that he played well.

gumby74
12-17-2012, 02:08 PM
Disagree. Spags had a much better pass rush.

Now was that because of Spags or because of the players? Keep in mind in 2008, he had no Strahan.

Redeyejedi
12-17-2012, 02:08 PM
Put it this way. Spags did a lot more with a lot less in 2008.How is Spags doing with less in NO. he may never get another coordinator job in his life

bigbluetribe
12-17-2012, 02:09 PM
its scheme related more than anything, fewell does not know how to use his players in a way that makes them suceed

gumby74
12-17-2012, 02:11 PM
How is Spags doing with less in NO. he may never get another coordinator job in his life

True, but with worse talent, he has done better than Fewell that's for sure. With the Giants I mean. Whether the reason be fitting personnel or whatever. Spags did a much better job with less.

My point being not that Spags is better than Fewell, but it IS possible with this current group to be very effective.

Buddy333
12-17-2012, 02:13 PM
I know people don't want to hear about injuries, but not having KP and Prince hurt them yesterday. Honestly, the offense hurt them just as much by not scoring a single point and spotting the Falcons the ball twice deep in the Giants territory. Oh, and the three times they where stopped on 4th down didn't help either.

ny06
12-17-2012, 02:15 PM
I believe the talent is there on defense, hard to make a good argument where the talent is other than a few players. I think it all steams from we're not playing solid team defense. We can't stop the run; teams can run right up the middle on a consistent basis, the pass rush other than a few games has been nonexistent. Our secondary has given up the big play more so then any team in the NFL. As for Fewell, this is the type of defense Fewell implements (bend but don't break) create a lot of turnovers, but give up a lot of yards.

JMGGIANTS
12-17-2012, 02:16 PM
One of the big challenges is with the secondary. When was the last season our secondary wasn't hit with the revolving door of injuries? But I agree with others that the D Line has been a major disappontment. As far as LB's Chase seems to play with the most heart.

Redeyejedi
12-17-2012, 02:19 PM
I know people don't want to hear about injuries, but not having KP and Prince hurt them yesterday. Honestly, the offense hurt them just as much by not scoring a single point and spotting the Falcons the ball twice deep in the Giants territory. Oh, and the three times they where stopped on 4th down didn't help either.yesterdays loss was on #10. He was as bad as I have ever seen him

Buddy333
12-17-2012, 02:22 PM
yesterdays loss was on #10. He was as bad as I have ever seen himAgreed. Now can he bounce back? Yes, we have seen it before. When though? Hopefully this week.

GMENAGAIN
12-17-2012, 03:02 PM
True, but with worse talent, he has done better than Fewell that's for sure. With the Giants I mean. Whether the reason be fitting personnel or whatever. Spags did a much better job with less.

My point being not that Spags is better than Fewell, but it IS possible with this current group to be very effective.

I don't think that it is possible to have a good defense with this group without a pass rush.

TooStupid
12-17-2012, 07:18 PM
Is it lack of talent when the only guy in your tv screen is the opposition wide out? Apparently nobody on the defensive side of the ball knows
what they're supposed to be doing. How long has Fewel been here? The LBs dont seem to know who they're supposed to cover either. Its a total CF and thats on the DC.