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View Full Version : We are delisional if you think this team is talented



experto
12-17-2012, 06:43 PM
They lack on the lbs,dbs,olineman.Rbs can never pick up a 3rd down and wrs cant seperate.Eli always has to fit it in a tight window and hope wrs can shake of a db by juke moves.Tight end who can't catch worth a crap,aging dline who can't pass rush.We here have a horrible team,that is getting worse as it gets better.Delusion.

Harooni
12-17-2012, 06:44 PM
plenty of talent, jut need to be motivated to win.

experto
12-17-2012, 06:45 PM
By delusion I mean as Wilson and others get injected in we get better but we have a static bad team in place.That's all.

Flip Empty
12-17-2012, 06:46 PM
Horrible teams don't blow out the Packers and Niners.

joemorrisforprez
12-17-2012, 06:47 PM
They lack on the lbs,dbs,olineman.Rbs can never pick up a 3rd down and wrs cant seperate.Eli always has to fit it in a tight window and hope wrs can shake of a db by juke moves.Tight end who can't catch worth a crap,aging dline who can't pass rush.We here have a horrible team,that is getting worse as it gets better.Delusion.

And yet they won a Super Bowl last year. Go figure.

JMGGIANTS
12-17-2012, 06:47 PM
They lack on the lbs,dbs,olineman.Rbs can never pick up a 3rd down and wrs cant seperate.Eli always has to fit it in a tight window and hope wrs can shake of a db by juke moves.Tight end who can't catch worth a crap,aging dline who can't pass rush.We here have a horrible team,that is getting worse as it gets better.Delusion.
YAWN

JMGGIANTS
12-17-2012, 06:48 PM
By delusion I mean as Wilson and others get injected in we get better but we have a static bad team in place.That's all.
I can think of another example, speaking of who is delusional.

Tmurda1984
12-17-2012, 06:49 PM
People are delusional. Alot of fans think that we have sooo much talent that we are under-utilizing....I dont see it. Reuben Randle was running the wrong god damn routes the last two games he played. Barden is a bust. Wilson still is not ready to take over as a lead back....In fact our running game has looked terrible since Andre Brown got hurt. Everyone talked about how great Holsey is? Yea yesterday was a great example of that. Keith Rivers? Lol Pass. What about Marvin Austin...bust. Hakeem Nicks is not a top 10 receiver...young guys like Dez Bryant, Thomas (of the Broncos), and AJ Green is surpassing him...even Victor Cruz. Bennett is not a red zone threat at all....Ballard made a impact in the red zone for us. Michael Boley is suppose to be our best coverage linebacker and is actually one of the worst 4-3 covering linebackers. Webster is a joke and is sooo bad that we are praising Prince as if hes a lock down corner.

Giantz4Life
12-17-2012, 06:49 PM
I used to be a big supporter of Gilbride, but now I am beginning to sway towards the Killdrivers in saying he should take a lot of the blame for the offensive struggles. Look at Cam Cameron in Baltimore, completely underutilized Ray Rice and his skills and was fired as a result. I don't know if Jim Caldwell is the answer, but I think it will definitely benefit their team offensively next season.

The system just doesn't seem to play to the strengths of the Giants WRs for reasons you pointed out. Then I see other teams like the Patriots and Packers who seem to have a perfect scheme for their players and utilize their strengths.

I am not a professional analyst of football, just a big fan, so my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt. However, I'm just calling it like I see it.

JMGGIANTS
12-17-2012, 06:53 PM
People are delusional. Alot of fans think that we have sooo much talent that we are under-utilizing....I dont see it. Reuben Randle was running the wrong god damn routes the last two games he played. Barden is a bust. Wilson still is not ready to take over as a lead back....In fact our running game has looked terrible since Andre Brown got hurt. Everyone talked about how great Holsey is? Yea yesterday was a great example of that. Keith Rivers? Lol Pass. What about Marvin Austin...bust. Hakeem Nicks is not a top 10 receiver...young guys like Dez Bryant, Thomas (of the Broncos), and AJ Green is surpassing him...even Victor Cruz. Bennett is not a red zone threat at all....Ballard made a ton of red zone plays for us. Michael Boley is suppose to be our best coverage linebacker and is actually one of the worst 4-3 covering linebackers. Webster is a joke and is sooo bad that we are praising Prince as if hes a lock down corner.

You are so wrong about Nicks, He is easily a top 10 receiver. You rank "Diz" Bryant ahead of Nicks. NIcks has been injured all year. You do realize that right?

Broadway Blue
12-17-2012, 06:55 PM
Horrible teams don't blow out the Packers and Niners.

Horrible teams don't win Super Bowls

Tmurda1984
12-17-2012, 07:02 PM
I used to be a big supporter of Gilbride, but now I am beginning to sway towards the Killdrivers in saying he should take a lot of the blame for the offensive struggles. Look at Cam Cameron in Baltimore, completely underutilized Ray Rice and his skills and was fired as a result. I don't know if Jim Caldwell is the answer, but I think it will definitely benefit their team offensively next season.

The system just doesn't seem to play to the strengths of the Giants WRs for reasons you pointed out. Then I see other teams like the Patriots and Packers who seem to have a perfect scheme for their players and utilize their strengths.

I am not a professional analyst of football, just a big fan, so my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt. However, I'm just calling it like I see it.

These receivers were thriving in this offense.....Victor Cruz was a practice squad player who is one of the best slot receivers in the league. Hakeem Nicks had a very good year. And remeber that Hixon was a Special Teamer before he got here and now is flourishing under this offense.

Bradshaw was around when we had the best rushing attack for 2 straight years...but then Reese neglect that offensive line. The Giants were known for running the ball....Reese is neglecting how important it is to win in the trenches. Its like Reese does not understand the history and the physical nature of Giant football. Since Reese took over...we been a finese football team having to play out of shotgun.

Look at 2007...we was not running draws all day long. We had a physical oline that Accorsi put together. The Giants use to pound the rock all the waay up until 2009. Thats when the Offensive Line started to struggle....and we began to pass it more. David Diehl was even forced to drop back to pass protect more showing offf his weakness in the passing game. Mckenzie regressed...Seubert and O'Hara was cut and Diehl and Snee is regressing. How did we replace those guys? Made Boothe a starting guard (comical), Gave Baas $ 4 M to be the softest center in the league, and finally Beatty is becoming a slight above average tackle.

Gilbride is trying to adjust to the talent we have. We can not run the ball well out of I Formation unless Hynoski K.O's a defender. We have to use deception to run the ball well. With Eli Manning in Shotgun...it keeps the safeties back deep. The problem is a lot of teams use these Cover 2 shell defenses allowing there cornerbacks to guess on Eli. Those Falcons did not see Wilson as a threat...they used there front 7 to contain the run and made sure both safeties are covering the deep ball..allowing the corners to be more aggressive in the trail technique.

Imgrate
12-17-2012, 07:10 PM
Cruz was never on the practice squad

Giantz4Life
12-17-2012, 07:20 PM
These receivers were thriving in this offense.....Victor Cruz was a practice squad player who is one of the best slot receivers in the league. Hakeem Nicks had a very good year. And remeber that Hixon was a Special Teamer before he got here and now is flourishing under this offense.

Bradshaw was around when we had the best rushing attack for 2 straight years...but then Reese neglect that offensive line. The Giants were known for running the ball....Reese is neglecting how important it is to win in the trenches. Its like Reese does not understand the history and the physical nature of Giant football. Since Reese took over...we been a finese football team having to play out of shotgun.

Look at 2007...we was not running draws all day long. We had a physical oline that Accorsi put together. The Giants use to pound the rock all the waay up until 2009. Thats when the Offensive Line started to struggle....and we began to pass it more. David Diehl was even forced to drop back to pass protect more showing offf his weakness in the passing game. Mckenzie regressed...Seubert and O'Hara was cut and Diehl and Snee is regressing. How did we replace those guys? Made Boothe a starting guard (comical), Gave Baas $ 4 M to be the softest center in the league, and finally Beatty is becoming a slight above average tackle.

Gilbride is trying to adjust to the talent we have. We can not run the ball well out of I Formation unless Hynoski K.O's a defender. We have to use deception to run the ball well. With Eli Manning in Shotgun...it keeps the safeties back deep. The problem is a lot of teams use these Cover 2 shell defenses allowing there cornerbacks to guess on Eli. Those Falcons did not see Wilson as a threat...they used there front 7 to contain the run and made sure both safeties are covering the deep ball..allowing the corners to be more aggressive in the trail technique.

But that's just what the whole league has become....a finesse game that favors the QB, passing, and receivers. This is not the same NFL as it was in 2007/2008. Are you saying that you want us to become a ground and pound team again? There are very few teams like that left in the league...San Fran comes to mind and the Houston Texans but there are not many left that do it successfully. I just feel like the scheme isn't working because defenses and DCs seem to have figured out how to shut our offense down . How is it that Asante Samuel was able to give his DBs the intel to the point where almost every single throw had the potential to be intercepted or batted down? Granted that Atlanta has a good secondary, but that was ridiculous. I just feel that our coaching staff is stubborn to the point of a fault.

Like I said, I don't claim to be an expert who thinks he could run an NFL offense. I'm just giving my perspective as a fan.

RoanokeFan
12-17-2012, 07:22 PM
They lack on the lbs,dbs,olineman.Rbs can never pick up a 3rd down and wrs cant seperate.Eli always has to fit it in a tight window and hope wrs can shake of a db by juke moves.Tight end who can't catch worth a crap,aging dline who can't pass rush.We here have a horrible team,that is getting worse as it gets better.Delusion. Help me out, just title your threads EXPERTO SAYS and put all of your well thought out opinions under "one roof" so we don't miss any.

Tmurda1984
12-17-2012, 07:26 PM
But that's just what the whole league has become....a finesse game that favors the QB, passing, and receivers. This is not the same NFL as it was in 2007/2008. Are you saying that you want us to become a ground and pound team again? There are very few teams like that left in the league...San Fran comes to mind and the Houston Texans but there are not many left that do it successfully. I just feel like the scheme isn't working because defenses and DCs seem to have figured out how to shut our offense down . How is it that Asante Samuel was able to give his DBs the intel to the point where almost every single throw had the potential to be intercepted or batted down? Granted that Atlanta has a good secondary, but that was ridiculous. I just feel that our coaching staff is stubborn to the point of a fault.

Like I said, I don't claim to be an expert who thinks he could run an NFL offense. I'm just giving my perspective as a fan.

Yea you are right the game is changing. The Giants should stick to that smashmouth game, we are a cold weather team as well. The 49ers and Texans are two very good teams that play like this. Even the Redskins are a very good running team...you have to run the ball and control the clock. This is why we have blown some leads earlier this season. Reese needs to build a more physical team.

Cloud57
12-17-2012, 07:28 PM
You are so wrong about Nicks, He is easily a top 10 receiver. You rank "Diz" Bryant ahead of Nicks. NIcks has been injured all year. You do realize that right?Nicks is holding this offense back, not the main reason but part of the reason. I think next year he will probably be the same like this year, start off great and then start limping again for the remainder of the season. Nicks is way better than Bryant, but one thing about Bryant and the other receivers in Dallas is that they are physical. We have no physical receivers that can break through tackles and fight for extra yards. Our receivers are talented but soft. Look at Cruz for example, he has a lot of muscle mass but he's weak, a guy Welker is more physical than him.

Giantz4Life
12-17-2012, 07:37 PM
Yea you are right the game is changing. The Giants should stick to that smashmouth game, we are a cold weather team as well. The 49ers and Texans are two very good teams that play like this. Even the Redskins are a very good running team...you have to run the ball and control the clock. This is why we have blown some leads earlier this season. Reese needs to build a more physical team.

I wish we could pound the rock like we used to. It works greatly for the 49ers and Texans because they have QBs that can work off play action, and Eli is one of the best at play action when the run game is working. The Redskins have been successful because they have the triple threat: a good O-Line, speedy receivers, and a guy in Morris who can pound the rock and get to the outside. Plus having RG3 as a mobile QB running the option is another threat. I hear what you are saying about the O-Line it is pretty bad now, but a lot of our project OL picks have not worked out (Cordle, Brewer etc). We really haven't had the opportunity to take a stud OT or guard in the early rounds of drafts, which is not a bad thing because we've been pretty successful in the past 5 years.

Imgrate
12-17-2012, 07:49 PM
I wish we could pound the rock like we used to. It works greatly for the 49ers and Texans because they have QBs that can work off play action, and Eli is one of the best at play action when the run game is working. The Redskins have been successful because they have the triple threat: a good O-Line, speedy receivers, and a guy in Morris who can pound the rock and get to the outside. Plus having RG3 as a mobile QB running the option is another threat. I hear what you are saying about the O-Line it is pretty bad now, but a lot of our project OL picks have not worked out (Cordle, Brewer etc). We really haven't had the opportunity to take a stud OT or guard in the early rounds of drafts, which is not a bad thing because we've been pretty successful in the past 5 years.Those teams don't pay their qb 20 mill a year.

Rudyy
12-17-2012, 07:54 PM
So now we arent talented? I hate when we lose...

TheBookOfEli
12-17-2012, 07:57 PM
You ARE delusional if you think this team has NO talent.

This team is very talented. We didn't win 2 superbowls in 5 seasons just because we got "Hot at the right time." We won because we have very talented players that are not always motivated.

And we have a coaching staff that doesn't utilize the talent we have correctly.

I TRULY believe that we could have an offense that can be very explosive and one of the best of all time. Problem is that we only have 5 plays in the playbook that we use so our talent remains masked.

gmenfan0488
12-17-2012, 10:56 PM
So now we arent talented? I hate when we lose...
this.

Giantslb66
12-17-2012, 11:03 PM
We do need to make some player changes in the off season, can't ride this same group any more.

quan the don
12-17-2012, 11:10 PM
Those teams don't pay their qb 20 mill a year.
Neither do the Giants, Genius.

PRGiant
12-18-2012, 03:18 AM
Yup they suck and I'll be rooting for them to win their 3rd SB in 6 seasons.

Diamondring
12-18-2012, 06:21 AM
People are delusional. Alot of fans think that we have sooo much talent that we are under-utilizing....I dont see it. Reuben Randle was running the wrong god damn routes the last two games he played. Barden is a bust. Wilson still is not ready to take over as a lead back....In fact our running game has looked terrible since Andre Brown got hurt. Everyone talked about how great Holsey is? Yea yesterday was a great example of that. Keith Rivers? Lol Pass. What about Marvin Austin...bust. Hakeem Nicks is not a top 10 receiver...young guys like Dez Bryant, Thomas (of the Broncos), and AJ Green is surpassing him...even Victor Cruz. Bennett is not a red zone threat at all....Ballard made a impact in the red zone for us. Michael Boley is suppose to be our best coverage linebacker and is actually one of the worst 4-3 covering linebackers. Webster is a joke and is sooo bad that we are praising Prince as if hes a lock down corner.Have you ever heard of other teams having talent? Giants aren't the only ones with talent in the NFL.

egyptian420
12-18-2012, 06:46 AM
Can you imagine how silly this thread would've looked like after last week's game against the saints? One game later, you get this

OX1
12-18-2012, 07:35 AM
Yea you are right the game is changing. The Giants should stick to that smashmouth game, we are a cold weather team as well. The 49ers and Texans are two very good teams that play like this. Even the Redskins are a very good running team...you have to run the ball and control the clock. This is why we have blown some leads earlier this season. Reese needs to build a more physical team.

You can't expect to match talent of teams that had been crappy SO long, their draft picks year after year were well above ours.
Reese does his best to get diamonds in the ruff, but many of them don't work out. When was the last time we had even a top 10 draft pick?
That's why this league is great, even when we lose, I will still watch because it is competitive (read entertaining, which is all
that really matters).

With that said, killdrive will not give up on his indefensable O, even though the league has figured it out
and/or our O is either hurt or not playing well enough (O-line) to run that offense any longer.
If your reading and reacting to your defenders, it takse TIME. Time our O-line can no longer give us.
No matter how long it takes to get it to work, they must perfect the short screen game.
Mr Elite has to earn his money and fire off short accurate cannons, over and over and over, to his FB, RB's, TE.
I believe he can do it if they PRACTICE it over and over and over. Not try to do it when nothing else works
and he shovel passes to a defender or the ground. Too late this year really and maybe we get help on
O-line next year, which might make killdrive seem like he knows what he is doing again.

SweetZombieJesus
12-18-2012, 07:40 AM
They've got plenty of talent -- they won the Super Bowl last year, and have at times looked amazing (Carolina, SF, Green Bay, NO).

The problem is at other times they look like unmotivated garbage. This team is dysfunctional, schizophrenic...

Plenty of duds like we experienced last week have already happened, I'm just glad this one didn't happen in the first round of the playoffs. We can still recover and hopefully we have enough mojo in the bank now that the clunker is out of the way. Either that or it will sink the season (see 2009, 2010).

Redeyejedi
12-18-2012, 09:40 AM
They lack on the lbs,dbs,olineman.Rbs can never pick up a 3rd down and wrs cant seperate.Eli always has to fit it in a tight window and hope wrs can shake of a db by juke moves.Tight end who can't catch worth a crap,aging dline who can't pass rush.We here have a horrible team,that is getting worse as it gets better.Delusion.They won the Super Bowl and have gone 8-6 against the Leagues toughest schedule but they have no talent.

DandyDon
12-18-2012, 01:46 PM
By delusion I mean as Wilson and others get injected in we get better but we have a static bad team in place.That's all.

Lol - yeah - wilson and others got "injected" last week - how'd THAT work out?

G-MENBK
12-18-2012, 02:05 PM
They won the Super Bowl and have gone 8-6 against the Leagues toughest schedule but they have no talent.

It still does not nullify that this team is inconsistent. You can't put up 50+ points one week then proceed to get shutout the following week. We have players being guilty of showing up when they feel like it, playing unmotivated, dumb play calling, dumb decision making; all that is a recipe for disaster and it's showing.

DandyDon
12-18-2012, 02:43 PM
It still does not nullify that this team is inconsistent. You can't put up 50+ points one week then proceed to get shutout the following week. We have players being guilty of showing up when they feel like it, playing unmotivated, dumb play calling, dumb decision making; all that is a recipe for disaster and it's showing.

I think every agrees they are inconsistant. The thread is about if they have "no talent." IMHO they have a lot of talent. It's the motivation I question.

Cloud57
12-18-2012, 03:06 PM
This team is talented no doubt, but I also think the talent is overrated.

bearbryant
12-18-2012, 03:29 PM
Talent is only as good as it is used properly in the NFL. This is why we are a 4-3 defense not a 3-4 defense, etc, etc. It takes talent to draw up how you attack an offense and a defense. This league changes continually and if you don't change with it your record will show that. The Giants have gone from a smash mouth football team to a technique, pass first group. Our O line doesn't control the LOS anymore, they're defenders not aggressors. The defense has become the same thing. They don't attack they stand up and wait for the offense to attack them. Its not a pretty site, watching the Falcon game rewind. And that was against a team with sub 300 pound DT's and an offense thats built for speed not power. Our D line is no longer the NASCAR package, it's the Geritol package! No LB's that stop the run or cover and a secondary that waits for mistakes to get the ball. Team needs changes, hope it happens soon! Go Giants!

TroyArcher
12-18-2012, 03:38 PM
8-6, blew out the 49ers and Packers. This team can beat any team in the NFL, unfortunately they can also lose to any team in the NFL on a given day. If they win the next two weeks I guarantee they will be one of the favorites to win the SB.

OX1
09-23-2013, 01:17 PM
You can't expect to match talent of teams that had been crappy SO long, their draft picks year after year were well above ours.
Reese does his best to get diamonds in the ruff, but many of them don't work out. When was the last time we had even a top 10 draft pick?
That's why this league is great, even when we lose, I will still watch because it is competitive (read entertaining, which is all
that really matters).

With that said, killdrive will not give up on his indefensable O, even though the league has figured it out
and/or our O is either hurt or not playing well enough (O-line) to run that offense any longer.
If your reading and reacting to your defenders, it takse TIME. Time our O-line can no longer give us.
No matter how long it takes to get it to work, they must perfect the short screen game.
Mr Elite has to earn his money and fire off short accurate cannons, over and over and over, to his FB, RB's, TE.
I believe he can do it if they PRACTICE it over and over and over. Not try to do it when nothing else works
and he shovel passes to a defender or the ground. Too late this year really and maybe we get help on
O-line next year, which might make killdrive seem like he knows what he is doing again.

BUMP........ Hate to say I told ya so.........

Buddy333
09-23-2013, 01:21 PM
8-6, blew out the 49ers and Packers. This team can beat any team in the NFL, unfortunately they can also lose to any team in the NFL on a given day. If they win the next two weeks I guarantee they will be one of the favorites to win the SB.

That was the past though. Teams can get bed fast. Think this is what is happening. They have some talent to build on, but they have plenty of guys that are not producing.

Toadofsteel
09-23-2013, 01:24 PM
That was the past though. Teams can get bed fast. Think this is what is happening. They have some talent to build on, but they have plenty of guys that are not producing.

My jets friend was saying "this is exactly what happened to the jets in 2011-2012"... in 2010 they were the toast of NY, in 2012 a laughingstock.

Buddy333
09-23-2013, 01:25 PM
It happens. Look at the Steelers. They are in the same position.

gumby74
09-23-2013, 01:38 PM
It happens. Look at the Steelers. They are in the same position.

Pretty much. Although the Steelers might be in worse shape than we are. Everyone is old. Everyone is going to be a free agent. They have nothing.

CuseGirl
09-23-2013, 01:40 PM
Whoa, necro thread....

What sucks is the Giants will still play themselves out of the top 10 of the draft, so Reese can take a safety with the 15th pick....