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View Full Version : Eli Manning's Inconsistency At Root Of Giants' Woes



RoanokeFan
12-18-2012, 08:59 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/sp...=football&_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/sports/football/eli-mannings-inconsistency-at-root-of-giants-woes.html?ref=football&_r=0)

Excerpt: "It was just after 6 p.m. Sunday, and Coach Tom Coughlin (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/c/tom_coughlin/index.html?inline=nyt-per) — like most everyone else on the Giants’ charter flight from Atlanta — was despondent. He had just watched his team be blasted by the Atlanta Falcons, 34-0, and was under the impression that in addition to losing the game, his players had also lost full control of their postseason fate.

As Coughlin settled into his seat, however, a team staff member came by to give him some surprising news. Despite the fact that the Giants, technically, dropped to ninth place in the N.F.C. with their defeat, the team still has a clear path to the playoffs: if the Giants win their final two games, the staff member said, they are guaranteed at least a wild-card berth.

Coughlin was dubious. “I actually questioned it,” he said Monday, unsure how the Giants could have so many teams in front of them and still have such an opportunity. But once he confirmed that it was true — essentially, two victories assured the Giants of having a better conference record than Minnesota and Chicago if all three finish 10-6 — his mood brightened.

On Monday, when he addressed the team, his message was one of hope.

“Hope is a nice word,” he said. “You have a circumstance which is obviously dismal and extremely disappointing, and you put your heart and soul into it; it’s a heavy burden. When you create the scenario of hope, it hopefully is going to be an uplifting thing.”

Several players echoed Coughlin’s overarching theme, and everyone spoke of needing to find the consistency that has proved elusive for much of the season. What went unsaid — or, at least, unsaid in the company of reporters — was that ultimately, the play of quarterback Eli Manning (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/m/eli_manning/index.html?inline=nyt-per) would probably determine whether the Giants pulled off another late-season surge or stumbled to a disappointing finish." Read more...

Toadofsteel
12-18-2012, 10:47 AM
TC needs to make "Finish" the motto of the team forever... not just one year.

RoanokeFan
12-18-2012, 10:50 AM
TC needs to make "Finish" the motto of the team forever... not just one year. It's hard to understand the inconsistency.

Buddy333
12-18-2012, 10:53 AM
It's hard to understand the inconsistency.Strange isn't it?

VBGiantsFan
12-18-2012, 10:57 AM
The article called out our two most important players, Eli and JPP. Eli is the engine that makes the team run and when he struggles we lose, but JPP and the defense could do a better job of giving the offense more opportunities when they are struggling.

dillyyo1972
12-18-2012, 11:13 AM
It's hard to understand the inconsistency.

I think whether anyone wants to admit it or not, no Giants team in history has ever been as inconsistent as the teams under Eli have been. It's like being on the biggest and fastest roller coaster each and every season. I can only most often attribute it to the QB play because in this league the teams go as the QBs go.

IMO, two things this team is built on: 1. Eli throwing the ball in an option route/timing offense 2. Defensive play predicated on applying pressuring to the QB. I truly believe Eli not getting to practice with Nicks all year has been detrimentally problematic for him as I would say Nicks has never been more than 80% all season. The lack of pass rush has exposed rookies on defense and not allowed Perry's schemes to work as effectively as they should.

Still a chance that we pull this out, but I can honestly say that these past few Giants teams are teams that, for the first time in my life, make me not take losses so bad. Reason being is that I never fully expect them to go into a big game and win it. 86', 90 and even 00' I expected them to win, but not 07' and surely not 11'. What I wouldn't give to just be consistent even for just one season. :(

JesseJames
12-18-2012, 11:45 AM
would anyone make the deal for the 49ers Kaepernick and a 2nd round pick for Eli, just putting it out there for discussion

gmen2009
12-18-2012, 11:48 AM
i will always have faith in Eli and the Giants, for goodness sake they won 2 super bowls in the last 4 years

krankeybluechick
12-18-2012, 12:36 PM
I think whether anyone wants to admit it or not, no Giants team in history has ever been as inconsistent as the teams under Eli have been. It's like being on the biggest and fastest roller coaster each and every season. I can only most often attribute it to the QB play because in this league the teams go as the QBs go.

IMO, two things this team is built on: 1. Eli throwing the ball in an option route/timing offense 2. Defensive play predicated on applying pressuring to the QB. I truly believe Eli not getting to practice with Nicks all year has been detrimentally problematic for him as I would say Nicks has never been more than 80% all season. The lack of pass rush has exposed rookies on defense and not allowed Perry's schemes to work as effectively as they should.

Still a chance that we pull this out, but I can honestly say that these past few Giants teams are teams that, for the first time in my life, make me not take losses so bad. Reason being is that I never fully expect them to go into a big game and win it. 86', 90 and even 00' I expected them to win, but not 07' and surely not 11'. What I wouldn't give to just be consistent even for just one season. :(

Would you give away the Super Bowls for consistency? You have to take the bad with the good. The Giants have always been this way. Even before Eli.

Harooni
12-18-2012, 12:43 PM
I think Eli can bounce back and play well, he has done it countless times,. all we need him to do is be more careful with the ball like in 07.

krankeybluechick
12-18-2012, 12:43 PM
would anyone make the deal for the 49ers Kaepernick and a 2nd round pick for Eli, just putting it out there for discussion

Oh sure trade away our 2 time Super Bowl MVP for a guy who has started only what 3/4 games? You are crazy even putting it out there!

dillyyo1972
12-18-2012, 01:18 PM
Would you give away the Super Bowls for consistency? You have to take the bad with the good. The Giants have always been this way. Even before Eli.

In hindsight, of course I would not give away the two championships. I also think of Eli as an elite qb, but his inconsistency is like no other elite I have seen before. Maybe it's more magnified and apparent as this is an offense/qb driven league, unlike the past. As far as "the giants have always been this way", I would have to disagree with you here. They were either consistently good or bad, but never such dramatic swings throughout a season and surely not multiple times a season, every season.

GameTime
12-18-2012, 01:34 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/sp...=football&_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/sports/football/eli-mannings-inconsistency-at-root-of-giants-woes.html?ref=football&_r=0)

Excerpt: "It was just after 6 p.m. Sunday, and Coach Tom Coughlin (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/c/tom_coughlin/index.html?inline=nyt-per) — like most everyone else on the Giants’ charter flight from Atlanta — was despondent. He had just watched his team be blasted by the Atlanta Falcons, 34-0, and was under the impression that in addition to losing the game, his players had also lost full control of their postseason fate.

As Coughlin settled into his seat, however, a team staff member came by to give him some surprising news. Despite the fact that the Giants, technically, dropped to ninth place in the N.F.C. with their defeat, the team still has a clear path to the playoffs: if the Giants win their final two games, the staff member said, they are guaranteed at least a wild-card berth.

Coughlin was dubious. “I actually questioned it,” he said Monday, unsure how the Giants could have so many teams in front of them and still have such an opportunity. But once he confirmed that it was true — essentially, two victories assured the Giants of having a better conference record than Minnesota and Chicago if all three finish 10-6 — his mood brightened.

On Monday, when he addressed the team, his message was one of hope.

“Hope is a nice word,” he said. “You have a circumstance which is obviously dismal and extremely disappointing, and you put your heart and soul into it; it’s a heavy burden. When you create the scenario of hope, it hopefully is going to be an uplifting thing.”

Several players echoed Coughlin’s overarching theme, and everyone spoke of needing to find the consistency that has proved elusive for much of the season. What went unsaid — or, at least, unsaid in the company of reporters — was that ultimately, the play of quarterback Eli Manning (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/m/eli_manning/index.html?inline=nyt-per) would probably determine whether the Giants pulled off another late-season surge or stumbled to a disappointing finish." Read more...
Eli's inconsistency and the offense as a whole is inconsistent. With routes, play calls, run game, etc. No rythem at all.....

RoanokeFan
12-18-2012, 01:42 PM
I think Eli can bounce back and play well, he has done it countless times,. all we need him to do is be more careful with the ball like in 07.

If we ever needed him to step up into that role, it's these next two games. I've been wondering if he's been playing hurt? He has taken some helacious hits over the course of the season.

GameTime
12-18-2012, 01:44 PM
If we ever needed him to step up into that role, it's these next two games. I've been wondering if he's been playing hurt? He has taken some helacious hits over the course of the season.
Maybe....but he is forcing things when he shouldnt and also missing things he would normally make. The timing for some reason is a bit off.....

dillyyo1972
12-18-2012, 01:47 PM
Maybe....but he is forcing things when he shouldnt and also missing things he would normally make. The timing for some reason is a bit off.....

Lack of practice time with receivers and D's disrupting routes.

BurnerNYG
12-18-2012, 01:50 PM
would anyone make the deal for the 49ers Kaepernick and a 2nd round pick for Eli, just putting it out there for discussionNah I'll wait for Cam to leave Carolina and sign him as a free agent. The Superman celebration would look a whole lot better in blue and red anyway. Lol

gmen0820
12-18-2012, 01:58 PM
Kaepernick, Aldon Smith, and a first. Maybe. Probably not.

DandyDon
12-18-2012, 02:00 PM
Strange isn't it?

Its mindblowing. Especially because it seems like on the bad days EVERY FACET of the team is bad, and on the good EVERY FACET is good?

I mean, 52-24 then 0-34 in consecutive weeks says it all...:confused:

BurnerNYG
12-18-2012, 02:04 PM
Kaepernick, Aldon Smith, and a first. Maybe. Probably not.The Niners wouldn't give up all that for a 31 year old inconsistent QB.

GameTime
12-18-2012, 02:05 PM
The Niners wouldn't give up all that for a 31 year inconsistent QB.

its not that.....they dont want a pocket passer. They like what they have in Kappernick

BurnerNYG
12-18-2012, 02:09 PM
its not that.....they dont want a pocket passer. They like what they have in KappernickI'm tired of pocket passers myself and I'm tired of hearing people say "how many scramblers won Superbowls"? Soon that's all you're gonna see is athletes at the position. The Giants and the Pats are gonna be the only teams left with pocket passers.

Kruunch
12-18-2012, 02:11 PM
It's hard to understand the inconsistency.

The team loses TC's message sooner or later and the coordinators aren't picking up the slack. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. Explains our very up and down mode of wins/losses.

GameTime
12-18-2012, 02:15 PM
I'm tired of pocket passers myself and I'm tired of hearing people say "how many scramblers won Superbowls"? Soon that's all you're gonna see is athletes at the position. The Giants and the Pats are gonna be the only teams left with pocket passers.
Even Luck as basically a pocket passer he can still run when he has too. The NFL will probably move towrds that. The Giants wont have a choice because thats all that will be out there. Eli will finish his career as a Giant I think. Unless he really goes south performance wise.

BuffyBlueII
12-18-2012, 02:25 PM
The Niners wouldn't give up all that for a 31 year old inconsistent QB.

Are you kidding me? Jim Harbaugh would jump to upograde to Eli Manning. He wouldn’t hesitate for one second to make that trade. Thankfully, Eli Manning is not getting traded anywhere.

GameTime
12-18-2012, 02:27 PM
Are you kidding me? Jim Harbaugh would jump to upograde to Eli Manning. He wouldn’t hesitate for one second to make that trade. Thankfully, Eli Manning is not getting traded anywhere.
I dont think he would at all.....

ny06
12-18-2012, 02:28 PM
I'm tired of pocket passers myself and I'm tired of hearing people say "how many scramblers won Superbowls"? Soon that's all you're gonna see is athletes at the position. The Giants and the Pats are gonna be the only teams left with pocket passers.
You take the scrambling qb, I'll take the pocket passer who has PROVEN they win championships.

DaKraken
12-18-2012, 02:29 PM
Starting the Atlanta game with two INTs that led to touchdowns sank this game. Entire team played poorly, but as the title article states, it all comes down to how he's playing. If he's on his game, they can beat anyone.

This season is going to rest on whether Eli snaps out of this funk.

BuffyBlueII
12-18-2012, 02:30 PM
Even Luck as basically a pocket passer he can still run when he has too. The NFL will probably move towrds that. The Giants wont have a choice because thats all that will be out there. Eli will finish his career as a Giant I think. Unless he really goes south performance wise.

I think it is actually going to go the other way. Teams are picking up on the investment of time and money in to Mike Vick as well as Roach With Braids Reptile Dysfunction not being able to play a full season and are going toward the bigger pocket passer types such as Andrew Luck. Yes, Luck can move but he is big, strong and can take a hit. He took a brutal hit earlier this season that was reminisicient of the one Eli took in his first season against Philly and Luck, like Eli, gathered himself and shook it off. Roach With Braids and a couple other “running” QBs would not have finished the game after that hit. I think that with what AP is doind this year that we are going to see teams go back to placing more on the run game and bulking up fatso offensive lines again and gear it toward more of a big strong tough pocket passer type of QB. In my opinion.

Rusty192
12-18-2012, 02:30 PM
Kaepernick, Aldon Smith, and a first. Maybe. Probably not.Throw in Adrian Peterson, Joe Montana in his prime, and it's a done deal.

GameTime
12-18-2012, 02:31 PM
Starting the Atlanta game with two INTs that led to touchdowns sank this game. Entire team played poorly, but as the title article states, it all comes down to how he's playing. If he's on his game, they can beat anyone.

This season is going to rest on whether Eli snaps out of this funk.
the season was resting on Eli no matter what. The Giants have no plan B.
I hope he gets back on track and the rest of the O as well

GameTime
12-18-2012, 02:32 PM
I think it is actually going to go the other way. Teams are picking up on the investment of time and money in to Mike Vick as well as Roach With Braids Reptile Dysfunction not being able to play a full season and are going toward the bigger pocket passer types such as Andrew Luck. Yes, Luck can move but he is big, strong and can take a hit. He took a brutal hit earlier this season that was reminisicient of the one Eli took in his first season against Philly and Luck, like Eli, gathered himself and shook it off. Roach With Braids and a couple other “running” QBs would not have finished the game after that hit. I think that with what AP is doind this year that we are going to see teams go back to placing more on the run game and bulking up fatso offensive lines again and gear it toward more of a big strong tough pocket passer type of QB. In my opinion.

have to ask....why must you belittle RG?....just wondering. What has he done to garner that from you???

freeoscar
12-18-2012, 02:33 PM
the whole strategy of this team - from the front office to the play calling, is designed around feast or famine. The D is front loaded, so the entire success is dependent upon getting significant pressure from the front 4. The passing game is WR based, with most throws going deep. Our RBs almost never catch passes, and we don't have that quick west-coast style passing game that the Pats or Packers or many other teams have.
But let's face it - it has worked - it beat the greatest team of all time, and one of the best of the past decade (last year's Packers). I wouldn't trade anything for those two wins over the Pats.

BuffyBlueII
12-18-2012, 02:34 PM
I dont think he would at all.....

Of course he would. He wouldn’t hesitate to trade for the only piece he may be missing to win a championship.

pino
12-18-2012, 02:35 PM
Eli will be fine. He needs better protection. We all know how bad Eli plays when he's rushed. This is no secret. I'm not excusing him, I'm just pointing out the obvious. The entire line has been struggling with injuries and it shows.

GameTime
12-18-2012, 02:35 PM
Of course he would. He wouldn’t hesitate to trade for the only piece he may be missing to win a championship.
he doesnt know that yet and they may win a championship.....

GameTime
12-18-2012, 02:36 PM
Eli will be fine. He needs better protection. We all know how bad Eli plays when he's rushed. This is no secret. I'm not excusing him, I'm just pointing out the obvious. The entire line has been struggling with injuries and it shows.
he is blowing passes where has time as well. Its not that simple.....the whole offense is out of synch

freeoscar
12-18-2012, 02:37 PM
While Eli hasn't been great this year, at least we know from experience that he can turn it on out of nowhere. His '07 game against the Vikings was one of the worst I've ever seen from a QB. Last year's week 15 game against the Redskins he looked totally out of sorts. Its not like we're hoping for a miracle.

Buddy333
12-18-2012, 02:39 PM
Throwing the ball will always be the best way to o down field. However, QB's are now more mobile.

BurnerNYG
12-18-2012, 02:41 PM
You take the scrambling qb, I'll take the pocket passer who has PROVEN they win championships.Look man, when you got 32(30 or whatever the case might be) teams and only 2 or possibly 3 have QB's who can make plays with their legs, of the course the percentage favors the pocket passers. You also forget that football is a team sport, one man can't do it alone.

BurnerNYG
12-18-2012, 02:45 PM
I think it is actually going to go the other way. Teams are picking up on the investment of time and money in to Mike Vick as well as Roach With Braids Reptile Dysfunction not being able to play a full season and are going toward the bigger pocket passer types such as Andrew Luck. Yes, Luck can move but he is big, strong and can take a hit. He took a brutal hit earlier this season that was reminisicient of the one Eli took in his first season against Philly and Luck, like Eli, gathered himself and shook it off. Roach With Braids and a couple other “running” QBs would not have finished the game after that hit. I think that with what AP is doind this year that we are going to see teams go back to placing more on the run game and bulking up fatso offensive lines again and gear it toward more of a big strong tough pocket passer type of QB. In my opinion.You obviously don't watch college football. I'm a Luck fan too, some of you must've forgot that I was hoping for a failed season at the beginning of last year so we can draft him. Luckily for us, we went on a run and the rest is history. I see you mentioned Luck but why not Cam? He hasn't been hurt. All that roach with braids crap sounds like some kindergarten nonsense so have fun with that.

giantsfan420
12-18-2012, 02:48 PM
i like the article and agree with it. but i feel that this also is unfair and doesnt represent things that well. for example, hes 1000% correct elis not been near as good or consistent as last year, which is very disappointing. and that he is central to whatever success/failure we have.
but I disagree or better said, disliked, how the writer glossed over the issues with the team. he spent a sentence on it, and imo also misrepresented the sack stat in context to play. imo, part of elis struggles is that he has to or feels he has to get rid of the ball so damn quickly. And he really doesnt have a choice in the matter. bc the author failed to write that despite the low sack number, we are among the worst in pressures allowed. and pressures affect the qb just as much as a sack. when eli has a pocket similar to the one Brady is often given, the chance of negative plays happening goes way way down. and although eli is or was historically very good under duress/pressure, its just easier when ur not.
Its a good article, and I agree. but the writer could have put more emphasis into the issues surrounding the team. bc think of it this way, we all know the qb is central to the success and that the qb is gonna get the blame if things go bad. if we know that, imagine what pro nfl qbs feel and understand of the situation. eli tries to do way too damn much too damn often imo. we rely so damn heavily on eli to win games and im sorry thats the truth. do other aspects contribute and win us games? yeah. but for example, the wilson game, whens the last time we had some one contribute like that? or the D vs Carolina, how often have we seen that D performance?
you know what, even tho cruz is given praise for last year, he prob deserves 10x the amount. look at the diff. when we have a guy who did what cruz did consistently last year? whatever reason, and that isnt to say cruz hasnt been successful, but not like last yr. i mean he practically won us the jets game....nicks is hurt so the times he can take over a game has gone way down, what 1x vs TB so far?? too much weight on elis shoulders this season IN MY HONEST OPINION. that isnt to excuse eli for his up and down, and bad performances either. just why i think its happening

Jtuck
12-18-2012, 02:51 PM
I'm tired of pocket passers myself and I'm tired of hearing people say "how many scramblers won Superbowls"? Soon that's all you're gonna see is athletes at the position. The Giants and the Pats are gonna be the only teams left with pocket passers.

Man, I am so tired of hearing this as well. I would love to have a QB with the brain & arm of Peyton or Brady, combined with Mike Vicks wheels! Oh there is one. His name is RGIII. I can't tell you how many times I am yelling at ELI to run for an easy wide open 1st down, but he won't do it, forces the ball to a receiver with DB draped all over him like the bat cape, pass deflected, drived killed! Punt or settle for FG! The league is moving towards mobile QB's that can run and throw just as effectively as a pocket passer!

DandyDon
12-18-2012, 02:53 PM
I'm tired of pocket passers myself and I'm tired of hearing people say "how many scramblers won Superbowls"? Soon that's all you're gonna see is athletes at the position. The Giants and the Pats are gonna be the only teams left with pocket passers.

Dont think so. RG3 has been seriously hurt twice in his first year. Eli has the one of the longest playing streaks in the league.

Unless your team has a very good backup, you are not going to get far for long with a running QB.

So how many scramblers/runners HAVE won a SB? Big ben is the only one I can think of, but even he does not want to run as a planned part of the game. And look at the shape he is in. Saw him on tv the other day actually taking questions on if/when his career is over?

This is about $$$, and no team wants to risk their QB. All these running QBs will be mostly pocket passers in a few years, or they will end up like Vick.

Ruttiger711
12-18-2012, 02:54 PM
Man, I am so tired of hearing this as well. I would love to have a QB with the brain & arm of Peyton or Brady, combined with Mike Vicks wheels! Oh there is one. His name is RGIII. I can't tell you how many times I am yelling at ELI run for an easy wide open 1st down, but he won't do it, forces the ball to a receiver with DB draped all over him like the bat cape, pass deflected, drived killed! Punt or settle for FG! The league is moving towards mobile QB's that can run and throw just as effectively as a pocket passer!

No - actually his name was Randall Cunningham and to this day they haven't been able to find another one. RGIII's probably the closest so far... but you cant prove anything from the sidelines... the injuries unfortunately for him will only pile on.

pino
12-18-2012, 02:55 PM
he is blowing passes where has time as well. Its not that simple.....the whole offense is out of synch It's not a switch you can turn off and on. When you are pressured, and your timing is off, it can effect you the whole game. Eli was getting blasted.

krankeybluechick
12-18-2012, 02:59 PM
Be carefule for what you wish for. How many games has RG3 missed in his first year and is going to miss? How about Vic? Now look at Eli how many has he missed? You cannot win Super Bowls with your starter on the sideline with a head or knee injury. I will take a pocket passer thank you.

BuffyBlueII
12-18-2012, 03:00 PM
You obviously don't watch college football. I'm a Luck fan too, some of you must've forgot that I was hoping for a failed season at the beginning of last year so we can draft him. Luckily for us, we went on a run and the rest is history. I see you mentioned Luck but why not Cam? He hasn't been hurt. All that roach with braids crap sounds like some kindergarten nonsense so have fun with that.

I do watch college football and yes Andrew Luck is mobile and he is way athletic but as great as he is in those departments, his strength in the pocket and his size is what seperates him. Cam Newton is a special talent and I think he will have a great career. He can move but he is also big, 6’6 255. He is strong in the pocket. I just didn’t type his name in there in my post.

Washington Redskins fans want to refer to Eli Manning as mentally deficient, say he has autism, etc.......etc....... So I will refer to Bobby Gee 3 as Roach With Braids because, he looks like one. I know it is juvenile but then again, we are grown men debating about a game via internet. Roach With Braids is already missing games and defenses are figuring him out. it is apparent that he doesn’t have a shelf life of relevance. He is basically going to wind up as a cheap imitation of Mike Vick. He will be one that may make better decisions and is not quite as fast as Mike Vick but he will not last as long.

There is no coincidence that pocket passers like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are the top tier QBs in NFL. We have went through the “new breed” before with Donavan McNabb, Dante Culpepper, Randal Cunningham and others. Heck, we won the SuperBowl with a running QB that ran a sub 4.6 40 but it keeps coming back to the big strong pocket passers and fundamental football in NFL. What we are seeing now is another phase and the game will evolve somewhat because of it but will still be based on the classic.

GameTime
12-18-2012, 03:04 PM
I do watch college football and yes Andrew Luck is mobile and he is way athletic but as great as he is in those departments, his strength in the pocket and his size is what seperates him. Cam Newton is a special talent and I think he will have a great career. He can move but he is also big, 6’6 255. He is strong in the pocket. I just didn’t type his name in there in my post.

Washington Redskins fans want to refer to Eli Manning as mentally deficient, say he has autism, etc.......etc....... So I will refer to Bobby Gee 3 as Roach With Braids because, he looks like one. I know it is juvenile but then again, we are grown men debating about a game via internet. Roach With Braids is already missing games and defenses are figuring him out. it is apparent that he doesn’t have a shelf life of relevance. He is basically going to wind up as a cheap imitation of Mike Vick. He will be one that may make better decisions and is not quite as fast as Mike Vick but he will not last as long.

There is no coincidence that pocket passers like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are the top tier QBs in NFL. We have went through the “new breed” before with Donavan McNabb, Dante Culpepper, Randal Cunningham and others. Heck, we won the SuperBowl with a running QB that ran a sub 4.6 40 but it keeps coming back to the big strong pocket passers and fundamental football in NFL. What we are seeing now is another phase and the game will evolve somewhat because of it but will still be based on the classic.
thanks for explaining yourself. So you choose to be as ridiculous as some Skins fans.......since "they started it"....hmmm
Also why do you refernce discussing football on the internet as childish??

BurnerNYG
12-18-2012, 03:04 PM
Dont think so. RG3 has been seriously hurt twice in his first year. Eli has the one of the longest playing streaks in the league.

Unless your team has a very good backup, you are not going to get far for long with a running QB.

So how many scramblers/runners HAVE won a SB? Big ben is the only one I can think of, but even he does not want to run as a planned part of the game. And look at the shape he is in. Saw him on tv the other day actually taking questions on if/when his career is over?

This is about $$$, and no team wants to risk their QB. All these running QBs will be mostly pocket passers in a few years, or they will end up like Vick.Steve Young but there hasn't been as many as people would like you to believe. Most of those guys were probably converted into different positions once they entered college. This year alone, you got RG3, Wilson, Kaepernick and even Luck. Ben isn't hurt because he scrambles, he stays hurt because his Oline has been sh***y his whole career. Sacks can beat up on a QB just as much as getting hit running... the running QB's gotta just learn to slide instead of trying to be Supermen out there.

giantsfan420
12-18-2012, 03:05 PM
Its mindblowing. Especially because it seems like on the bad days EVERY FACET of the team is bad, and on the good EVERY FACET is good?

I mean, 52-24 then 0-34 in consecutive weeks says it all...:confused:i think that eli gets a lot of misplaced blame in this regard. i agree with ur post. but i dont attribute that to eli alone. i attribute it to KG not creating a good strategy/gameplan to attack the defense and being unwilling (maybe hes just unable to like other OC's bc of the sight adjustment scheme) to adjust. now, does that mean i think every bad game elis had is KGs fault? no. of couse not. im positiver theres plenty of losses where elis looked bad and the scheme/gameplan was just fine. but id argue the majority of the time, its the gameplan

GameTime
12-18-2012, 03:10 PM
i think that eli gets a lot of misplaced blame in this regard. i agree with ur post. but i dont attribute that to eli alone. i attribute it to KG not creating a good strategy/gameplan to attack the defense and being unwilling (maybe hes just unable to like other OC's bc of the sight adjustment scheme) to adjust. now, does that mean i think every bad game elis had is KGs fault? no. of couse not. im positiver theres plenty of losses where elis looked bad and the scheme/gameplan was just fine. but id argue the majority of the time, its the gameplan
well on that note the Giants win way more then they lose so do you attribute the game plan for the most of the wins too???

stormblue
12-18-2012, 03:14 PM
all teams want a pocket passer that can pull it down and run when it's necessary
as a last resort .. not for a living.
there just aren't that many Steve Youngs out there.
there are prospects like Cam and RG3 etc....that seem to be talented enough
but need to learn to run as a last resort.....for there own health and longevity and team
investment in both draft choice and money.
they seem to be trying with Cam....but they need some more pieces around him.
RG3 is not even being coached to learn this....they were abusing him to win now.
Vick would not learn....one read ..then run...his career was his own fault.
most teams Qb's lie somewhere in the middle.

Eli unfortunately....is probably the least mobile QB in the league.
i cannot think of anyone slower...which is why he is so hard to protect.

krankeybluechick
12-18-2012, 03:17 PM
Why is it when the Giants struggle the majority of the blame is put on Eli? I'm no saying he doesn't deserve part of the blame with his inconsistent play but tell me how is our defense lately? Our Coaching Staff? Our Offencive line? They are all stinking it up. Some of you are so quick to want to get rid of a player that helped us win 2 Super Bowls and has somemore good years left to play. It's just boggles my mind!!

BurnerNYG
12-18-2012, 03:19 PM
I do watch college football and yes Andrew Luck is mobile and he is way athletic but as great as he is in those departments, his strength in the pocket and his size is what seperates him. Cam Newton is a special talent and I think he will have a great career. He can move but he is also big, 6’6 255. He is strong in the pocket. I just didn’t type his name in there in my post.

Washington Redskins fans want to refer to Eli Manning as mentally deficient, say he has autism, etc.......etc....... So I will refer to Bobby Gee 3 as Roach With Braids because, he looks like one. I know it is juvenile but then again, we are grown men debating about a game via internet. Roach With Braids is already missing games and defenses are figuring him out. it is apparent that he doesn’t have a shelf life of relevance. He is basically going to wind up as a cheap imitation of Mike Vick. He will be one that may make better decisions and is not quite as fast as Mike Vick but he will not last as long.

There is no coincidence that pocket passers like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are the top tier QBs in NFL. We have went through the “new breed” before with Donavan McNabb, Dante Culpepper, Randal Cunningham and others. Heck, we won the SuperBowl with a running QB that ran a sub 4.6 40 but it keeps coming back to the big strong pocket passers and fundamental football in NFL. What we are seeing now is another phase and the game will evolve somewhat because of it but will still be based on the classic.Donovan was decent. The Eagles had absolutely no wide receivers for majority of his time there. When they finally went and got one, the Eagles went to the Superbowl... even though TO was hurt during their playoff run. I feel bad for McNabb(not really but I'm saying) because he was probably the best QB the Eagles ever had, took them to like 5 Championship games and just couldn't get over the hump.

GameTime
12-18-2012, 03:20 PM
Why is it when the Giants struggle the majority of the blame is put on Eli? I'm no saying he doesn't deserve part of the blame with his inconsistent play but tell me how is our defense lately? Our Coaching Staff? Our Offencive line? They are all stinking it up. Some of you are so quick to want to get rid of a player that helped us win 2 Super Bowls and has somemore good years left to play. It's just boggles my mind!!

ehhh not really....look how many threads are created to evicerate Gilbride or Fewell. Eli takes hit lumps but I think KG gets just as much hammering

krankeybluechick
12-18-2012, 03:23 PM
ehhh not really....look how many threads are created to evicerate Gilbride or Fewell. Eli takes hit lumps but I think KG gets just as much hammering

I respectively disagree . I have been reading the boards for awhile and I would be safe to bet that Eli gets hammered more often.

GameTime
12-18-2012, 03:25 PM
I respectively disagree . I have been reading the boards for awhile and I would be safe to bet that Eli gets hammered more often.

I dont often get respect.....thanks...:)

giantsfan420
12-18-2012, 03:27 PM
well on that note the Giants win way more then they lose so do you attribute the game plan for the most of the wins too???yes thats my point. the gameplans either work or they dont. theres no middle ground with us it seems which i think is part of our consistency issues. KG has issues adjusting but maybe thats bc its tough to adjust ur offensive scheme when its comprised of plays that are supposed to adjust to the defense in play....KGs had a lot of success and is a good OC despite my and other complaining. he just has some flaws that i hate. id love if we could get a guy like Tom Moore to be OC. but yeah, kg often will create good gameplans, but he'll also make a ****ty one too, and thus the inconsistency in the manner we've seen recently

krankeybluechick
12-18-2012, 03:28 PM
I dont often get respect.....thanks...:)

lol

BurnerNYG
12-18-2012, 03:53 PM
all teams want a pocket passer that can pull it down and run when it's necessary
as a last resort .. not for a living.
there just aren't that many Steve Youngs out there.
there are prospects like Cam and RG3 etc....that seem to be talented enough
but need to learn to run as a last resort.....for there own health and longevity and team
investment in both draft choice and money.
they seem to be trying with Cam....but they need some more pieces around him.
RG3 is not even being coached to learn this....they were abusing him to win now.
Vick would not learn....one read ..then run...his career was his own fault.
most teams Qb's lie somewhere in the middle.

Eli unfortunately....is probably the least mobile QB in the league.
i cannot think of anyone slower...which is why he is so hard to protect.I don't want us to dump Eli, that's not what I'm saying. I just hope when we go find our next guy, he can make some plays with his legs without trying to do too much to get himself hurt. I know the risks but I find it more exciting.

Rusty192
12-18-2012, 03:59 PM
I just hope when we go find our next guy, .Everybody will ***** about him too. Appears people are never happy it seems.

krankeybluechick
12-18-2012, 04:06 PM
Everybody will ***** about him too. Appears people are never happy it seems.

So true!!!!

RoanokeFan
12-18-2012, 04:58 PM
You obviously don't watch college football. I'm a Luck fan too, some of you must've forgot that I was hoping for a failed season at the beginning of last year so we can draft him. Luckily for us, we went on a run and the rest is history. I see you mentioned Luck but why not Cam? He hasn't been hurt. All that roach with braids crap sounds like some kindergarten nonsense so have fun with that.

Cool avatar

RoanokeFan
12-18-2012, 04:59 PM
I respectively disagree . I have been reading the boards for awhile and I would be safe to bet that Eli gets hammered more often.

More often than he is heaped with praise?

BurnerNYG
12-18-2012, 05:19 PM
Cool avatarWhy thank you sir.

JesseJames
12-18-2012, 05:58 PM
You take the scrambling qb, I'll take the pocket passer who has PROVEN they win championships.having a scrambling QB forgives a lot of the sins of a weak O line

bashful
12-18-2012, 06:15 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/sp...=football&_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/sports/football/eli-mannings-inconsistency-at-root-of-giants-woes.html?ref=football&_r=0)

Excerpt: "It was just after 6 p.m. Sunday, and Coach Tom Coughlin (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/c/tom_coughlin/index.html?inline=nyt-per) — like most everyone else on the Giants’ charter flight from Atlanta — was despondent. He had just watched his team be blasted by the Atlanta Falcons, 34-0, and was under the impression that in addition to losing the game, his players had also lost full control of their postseason fate.

As Coughlin settled into his seat, however, a team staff member came by to give him some surprising news. Despite the fact that the Giants, technically, dropped to ninth place in the N.F.C. with their defeat, the team still has a clear path to the playoffs: if the Giants win their final two games, the staff member said, they are guaranteed at least a wild-card berth.

Coughlin was dubious. “I actually questioned it,” he said Monday, unsure how the Giants could have so many teams in front of them and still have such an opportunity. But once he confirmed that it was true — essentially, two victories assured the Giants of having a better conference record than Minnesota and Chicago if all three finish 10-6 — his mood brightened.

On Monday, when he addressed the team, his message was one of hope.

“Hope is a nice word,” he said. “You have a circumstance which is obviously dismal and extremely disappointing, and you put your heart and soul into it; it’s a heavy burden. When you create the scenario of hope, it hopefully is going to be an uplifting thing.”

Several players echoed Coughlin’s overarching theme, and everyone spoke of needing to find the consistency that has proved elusive for much of the season. What went unsaid — or, at least, unsaid in the company of reporters — was that ultimately, the play of quarterback Eli Manning (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/m/eli_manning/index.html?inline=nyt-per) would probably determine whether the Giants pulled off another late-season surge or stumbled to a disappointing finish." Read more...

Eli is not the problem - granted he has not played well or has the offense. The resposibility falls on the gray haired troll. He has done absolutely nothing to use Eli's strength. Same crap every game. 6 draw plays in a row, remove wilson from the game. throw deep. I do not believe Eli has as much ability to call plays off as one might think. Blame the right person. Eli bashers make me sick - put him on a team with an OC that has imagination and less of an ego and control and see what you get.

stormblue
12-18-2012, 06:26 PM
Eli is not the problem - granted he has not played well or has the offense. The resposibility falls on the gray haired troll. He has done absolutely nothing to use Eli's strength. Same crap every game. 6 draw plays in a row, remove wilson from the game. throw deep. I do not believe Eli has as much ability to call plays off as one might think. Blame the right person. Eli bashers make me sick - put him on a team with an OC that has imagination and less of an ego and control and see what you get.

you do realize that KG and Eli are joined at the hip and create the game-plan together ..right ?
you do realize that KG and Eli have the same offensive philosophy ...right ?
you do realize that Eli can change it up at the line on any play ...right ?

TheEnigma
12-18-2012, 06:40 PM
Why is it when the Giants struggle the majority of the blame is put on Eli? I'm no saying he doesn't deserve part of the blame with his inconsistent play but tell me how is our defense lately? Our Coaching Staff? Our Offencive line? They are all stinking it up. Some of you are so quick to want to get rid of a player that helped us win 2 Super Bowls and has somemore good years left to play. It's just boggles my mind!!

Eli also gets the lions share of the praise during the good times. It just comes with the territory of playing the most important position.

krankeybluechick
12-19-2012, 12:39 AM
More often than he is heaped with praise?

Yup.

giantsfan420
12-19-2012, 03:06 AM
you do realize that KG and Eli are joined at the hip and create the game-plan together ..right ?
you do realize that KG and Eli have the same offensive philosophy ...right ?
you do realize that Eli can change it up at the line on any play ...right ?

1-not true at all. u think a player has got to do his responsibilities and then on top of that an OC's? I'm sure KG will ask Eli at some point what he was most comfortable with (and really I dunno how often that even happens. only times i've read about it is when we've been in slumps(eli) and we're trying to get him out of it).
2-?? How could u even begin to state this? Just because Eli runs an offense that has KG's philosophy doesnt mean they "have the same one"...logic is just not rational. Eli came from Ole Miss before he was a Giant. Ole Miss had the same coach when eli was there that peyton had when he was at Tennessee. Eli's gone and spent time in the offseason with him. Does that automatically mean "he has the same offensive philosophy" of that guy?
3- Eli can change it up at the line on any play. (and there is some discrepancy between what is the accepted truth of what we do at the LOS, it varies from person to person. what I understand of it is what I believe is what we do) Eli is given 3 plays by KG in the huddle with the main play call. Based on what the D does, eli is to audible into 1 of the 3 plays. That is far different than what u've implied that he cant just free reign change it up on the fly to any play. Thats not the case for a multitude of reasons I could go over with u if u want. just late and tired of typing. but yeah felt u should have clarification bc you were asking those questions condescendingly and its ironic kinda bc u were off urself

stormblue
12-19-2012, 06:42 AM
1-not true at all. u think a player has got to do his responsibilities and then on top of that an OC's? I'm sure KG will ask Eli at some point what he was most comfortable with (and really I dunno how often that even happens. only times i've read about it is when we've been in slumps(eli) and we're trying to get him out of it).
2-?? How could u even begin to state this? Just because Eli runs an offense that has KG's philosophy doesnt mean they "have the same one"...logic is just not rational. Eli came from Ole Miss before he was a Giant. Ole Miss had the same coach when eli was there that peyton had when he was at Tennessee. Eli's gone and spent time in the offseason with him. Does that automatically mean "he has the same offensive philosophy" of that guy?
3- Eli can change it up at the line on any play. (and there is some discrepancy between what is the accepted truth of what we do at the LOS, it varies from person to person. what I understand of it is what I believe is what we do) Eli is given 3 plays by KG in the huddle with the main play call. Based on what the D does, eli is to audible into 1 of the 3 plays. That is far different than what u've implied that he cant just free reign change it up on the fly to any play. Thats not the case for a multitude of reasons I could go over with u if u want. just late and tired of typing. but yeah felt u should have clarification bc you were asking those questions condescendingly and its ironic kinda bc u were off urself

seeing as how it was in response to this ;

http://boards.giants.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by bashful http://boards.giants.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://boards.giants.com/showthread.php?p=626970#post626970)
Eli is not the problem - granted he has not played well or has the offense. The resposibility falls on the gray haired troll. He has done absolutely nothing to use Eli's strength. Same crap every game. 6 draw plays in a row, remove wilson from the game. throw deep. I do not believe Eli has as much ability to call plays off as one might think. Blame the right person. Eli bashers make me sick - put him on a team with an OC that has imagination and less of an ego and control and see what you get.

you either understand my condescension or you don't.

and anyway.....those statements are true......whether you agree with them or not.

if you are under the impression that it's TC and KG coming up with a game-plan
and then giving it to Eli , you are sadly mistaken.

have you ever seen TC over there discussing anything with Eli ?
all he does is make faces throw tantrums and get upset.
he is never in on adjustments or play calling.
of course he makes HC decisions like FG or go for it on 4th down..
but he never calls the specific play
he really thinks its all about execution......it's always the players fault...no matter what.

anyhow it's on Eli and KG.....siamese twins joined at the hip.

if you don't know this....you are really not paying attention.

and you can't tell me Eli has to call 3 straight draw/dives up the the middle into a 9 man box
without being able to sqwawk into a bootleg or a quick out.
Eli is as much to blame as KG.

RoanokeFan
12-19-2012, 07:44 AM
Yup.

I'm not so sure about that. You have those few over the top vocal few negative posters that complain after a win. They are diligent in their efforts to create thread after thread about the same issue, player, or coach.

krankeybluechick
12-19-2012, 10:44 AM
I'm not so sure about that. You have those few over the top vocal few negative posters that complain after a win. They are diligent in their efforts to create thread after thread about the same issue, player, or coach.

I have to concede you are right, it is the same few who do that. It gets aggravating.

Mod_C
12-19-2012, 10:56 AM
I have to concede you are right, it is the same few who do that. It gets aggravating. We positive folks just have to keep on keeping on

GameTime
12-19-2012, 11:00 AM
We positive folks just have to keep on keeping on
I am positive Eli is having a rough season
I am positive the KG calls some odd plays at times and have no idea why he wont go no huddle or 2 minute
I am positive the defense has a attitude problem
I am postitve that this team doesnt really know themselves how they will do game to game.....they are just as surprised as we are as fans
With all that said I am postive they can turn things around..

hows that???

FlyingTruck
12-19-2012, 11:18 AM
It's hard to understand the inconsistency.Season from season, and throughout the season itself. It's unbelievable at times. TC's second half record with us is a little embarrassing. Our core group stays the same and yet it seems like every year we don't really know what to expect.

RoanokeFan
12-19-2012, 12:13 PM
Lack of practice time with receivers and D's disrupting routes. The only receiver not practicing is Nicks and he' been limited

Jtuck
12-19-2012, 12:17 PM
seeing as how it was in response to this ;

http://boards.giants.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by bashful http://boards.giants.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://boards.giants.com/showthread.php?p=626970#post626970)
Eli is not the problem - granted he has not played well or has the offense. The resposibility falls on the gray haired troll. He has done absolutely nothing to use Eli's strength. Same crap every game. 6 draw plays in a row, remove wilson from the game. throw deep. I do not believe Eli has as much ability to call plays off as one might think. Blame the right person. Eli bashers make me sick - put him on a team with an OC that has imagination and less of an ego and control and see what you get.

you either understand my condescension or you don't.

and anyway.....those statements are true......whether you agree with them or not.

if you are under the impression that it's TC and KG coming up with a game-plan
and then giving it to Eli , you are sadly mistaken.

have you ever seen TC over there discussing anything with Eli ?
all he does is make faces throw tantrums and get upset.
he is never in on adjustments or play calling.
of course he makes HC decisions like FG or go for it on 4th down..
but he never calls the specific play
he really thinks its all about execution......it's always the players fault...no matter what.

anyhow it's on Eli and KG.....siamese twins joined at the hip.

if you don't know this....you are really not paying attention.

and you can't tell me Eli has to call 3 straight draw/dives up the the middle into a 9 man box
without being able to sqwawk into a bootleg or a quick out.
Eli is as much to blame as KG.

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

giantsfan420
12-19-2012, 01:24 PM
seeing as how it was in response to this ;

http://boards.giants.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by bashful http://boards.giants.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://boards.giants.com/showthread.php?p=626970#post626970)
Eli is not the problem - granted he has not played well or has the offense. The resposibility falls on the gray haired troll. He has done absolutely nothing to use Eli's strength. Same crap every game. 6 draw plays in a row, remove wilson from the game. throw deep. I do not believe Eli has as much ability to call plays off as one might think. Blame the right person. Eli bashers make me sick - put him on a team with an OC that has imagination and less of an ego and control and see what you get.

you either understand my condescension or you don't.

and anyway.....those statements are true......whether you agree with them or not.

if you are under the impression that it's TC and KG coming up with a game-plan
and then giving it to Eli , you are sadly mistaken.

have you ever seen TC over there discussing anything with Eli ?
all he does is make faces throw tantrums and get upset.
he is never in on adjustments or play calling.
of course he makes HC decisions like FG or go for it on 4th down..
but he never calls the specific play
he really thinks its all about execution......it's always the players fault...no matter what.

anyhow it's on Eli and KG.....siamese twins joined at the hip.

if you don't know this....you are really not paying attention.

and you can't tell me Eli has to call 3 straight draw/dives up the the middle into a 9 man box
without being able to sqwawk into a bootleg or a quick out.
Eli is as much to blame as KG.yeah i could agree with most this. but that still doesnt change the post u quoted. KG is giving Eli the gameplan. Of course Eli prob has some input, but he is not in KGs office and both them are creating the gameplan together. ELi has a ton of responsibilities himself as a player as is. I guess it depends on how u define "input" eli gives. I personally dont feel that Eli POSSIBLY (again bc the only time ive read that they do this was when elis been in a slump to try and get him out of it by running what hes been most comfortable with lately) telling KG the plays hes liked is "eli and KG creating the gameplan together"...and it seems u were willing to concede the other 2 points so, listen i get the frustration with KG AND eli. both are warranted imo. and also, imo, KG deserves the majority of it as personally i feel KG does a piss poor job of putting not only eli, but the entire offense in ****ty situations and doesnt make things "easier" to execute by playing to their strengths.

dillyyo1972
12-19-2012, 02:06 PM
The only receiver not practicing is Nicks and he' been limited

That's why I stated a lack of practice time. IMO Eli is somewhat of an erratic QB and needs that timing down in order to shine. I'm sure Hakeem not practicing much has affected their timing the whole year. Victor's timing has been thrown off because of the rolling of doubles on him and likely not being as decisive on where and when he will be making a good deal of his breaks. The fact that it seems either KG or Eli prefer to go to the wide outs or slots rather than the TE or a short field, I think makes it harder for the O and leads to the domino effect.

dbreiden83080
12-19-2012, 04:11 PM
Most of the games we lost this year have been on the D IMO. Hell the Giants were in the process of having an easy day with the Saints when the D turned around and let them run down the field twice in about 2 minutes.. Eli could have thrown for 300 yds and 3 td's last week and it would not have mattered. We could not stop the Falcons offense..

Roosevelt
12-19-2012, 04:13 PM
Most of the games we lost this year have been on the D IMO. Hell the Giants were in the process of having an easy day with the Saints when the D turned around and let them run down the field twice in about 2 minutes.. Eli could have thrown for 300 yds and 3 td's last week and it would not have mattered. We could not stop the Falcons offense..

Are you suggesting turnovers and field position don't matter?

dbreiden83080
12-19-2012, 04:17 PM
Are you suggesting turnovers and field position don't matter?

I am suggesting not having a pass rush and a ****ty secondary is a problem. Every time i turn around the QB has all day to throw and somebody is wide open down field..

stormblue
12-19-2012, 04:26 PM
yeah i could agree with most this. but that still doesnt change the post u quoted. KG is giving Eli the gameplan. Of course Eli prob has some input, but he is not in KGs office and both them are creating the gameplan together. ELi has a ton of responsibilities himself as a player as is. I guess it depends on how u define "input" eli gives. I personally dont feel that Eli POSSIBLY (again bc the only time ive read that they do this was when elis been in a slump to try and get him out of it by running what hes been most comfortable with lately) telling KG the plays hes liked is "eli and KG creating the gameplan together"...and it seems u were willing to concede the other 2 points so, listen i get the frustration with KG AND eli. both are warranted imo. and also, imo, KG deserves the majority of it as personally i feel KG does a piss poor job of putting not only eli, but the entire offense in ****ty situations and doesnt make things "easier" to execute by playing to their strengths.

actually 420 , i really do think that Eli is in there creating the game-plan with KG.
at least that's the impression i have had for a long time.
i can't honestly quote an article or anything to support where i got the notion....
i darn sure didn't invent it.....i'm not privy to any secrets and don't know any pro-ballers.
so i must have heard or read it somewhere.....you know the interweb never lies...
but i have been under that impression for a couple years.

if i'm wrong so be it......maybe some one else has some insider stuff on this.

Sarcasman
12-19-2012, 08:07 PM
would anyone make the deal for the 49ers Kaepernick and a 2nd round pick for Eli, just putting it out there for discussion


Sure, I'd bet the 49ers would jump all over that.

Sarcasman
12-19-2012, 08:08 PM
It's hard to understand the inconsistency.

It really is. This team is unbelievably frustrating.

brad
12-19-2012, 08:10 PM
I am suggesting not having a pass rush and a ****ty secondary is a problem. Every time i turn around the QB has all day to throw and somebody is wide open down field..

D was pretty bad... but that is no excuse for the offense not scoring.