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View Full Version : Offensive struggles = No Manningham



VBGiantsFan
12-18-2012, 09:05 AM
Last year we had 3 receivers who were borderline uncoverable. This year teams bracket Cruz, single cover a hampered Nicks and guys like Hixon, Randle (bust?), Barden (bust?), Jernigan (bust...no question mark) cannot beat their coverage at all.

If we had Manningham still, we'd be a top flight offense.

Rudyy
12-18-2012, 09:06 AM
Please explain to me how Randle can even be considered a bust

appodictic
12-18-2012, 09:08 AM
The formula is more like this:

Offensive struggles = No Manningham + hurt nicks

Hixon is filling in for manningham pretty well I think

Buddy333
12-18-2012, 09:12 AM
Losing him was big and Nicks being hurt makes it even worse. Lol. Randle is a bust already? Go check out what Manningham did his rookie season. Go check out what Toomer did his rookie season?

VBGiantsFan
12-18-2012, 09:12 AM
Please explain to me how Randle can even be considered a bust

It was bust with a question mark. He hasn't exactly been an impact player, which is very disappointing for a second round pick. He had his opportunities too with a hurt Hixon and couldn't prove he deserved to be on the field. Not a bust yet, but he is definitely not producing as expected.

Rudyy
12-18-2012, 09:15 AM
It was bust with a question mark. He hasn't exactly been an impact player, which is very disappointing for a second round pick. He had his opportunities too with a hurt Hixon and couldn't prove he deserved to be on the field. Not a bust yet, but he is definitely not producing as expected.He can't be considered a bust in his rookie season is what I'm saying. Barden is a bust definitely, Jernigan is a bust, but not a rookie.

giantscolombia
12-18-2012, 09:16 AM
It was bust with a question mark. He hasn't exactly been an impact player, which is very disappointing for a second round pick. He had his opportunities too with a hurt Hixon and couldn't prove he deserved to be on the field. Not a bust yet, but he is definitely not producing as expected.
He is part of the NYG system dude!

They do not get the opportunity... he is out there in really REALLY limited snaps... not a bust at all. He is after all a rookie...

Captain Chaos
12-18-2012, 09:16 AM
I think we are missing a healthy Nicks and not missing a speedy Manningham. To be sure Hixon is filling in fine. I haven't seen enough of Randle to say he's good or a bust. Still think our O line needs some serious help!

Buddy333
12-18-2012, 09:18 AM
It was bust with a question mark. He hasn't exactly been an impact player, which is very disappointing for a second round pick. He had his opportunities too with a hurt Hixon and couldn't prove he deserved to be on the field. Not a bust yet, but he is definitely not producing as expected.Toomer caught ONE pass his rookie season.

Shockeystays08
12-18-2012, 09:18 AM
Jeringan needs a ? also. It's to early to label him a bust. He has gone from inactive to getting more game snaps than both Route Tree Randell and Barden the last few games. He might be showing something in practice. We all saw how he shot off like a rocket with two good jukes on his way to his 60 yard run back. Barden seems to be the bust. If Killdrive doesn't figure out how to use JJ's skills he may turn out to be a bust for us but will excel when used like Percy Harvin and Randall Cobb. Manningham is a guy who fit the puzzle well for us. He was a gamer with production. Hixon has done some really good things but replace Mario he did not. Regarding Randell, I saw him struggle time after time to get open vs top SEC DB's and wondered how he was gonna make the jump to the NFL and get open. I'm still wondering.

VBGiantsFan
12-18-2012, 09:21 AM
Toomer caught ONE pass his rookie season.

He played in 7 games, then tore his ACL.

BuffyBlueII
12-18-2012, 09:24 AM
The formula is more like this:Offensive struggles = No Manningham + hurt nicksHixon is filling in for manningham pretty well I thinkIt goes beyond catches and stats. MM has the speed that stretches defenses.

dakotajoe
12-18-2012, 09:42 AM
I admire his toughness but we're missing the Nicks of last year. Hixon is just as fast as MM.

Aren't Hixons stats better than MM last year? Barden was ballin' when he got the nod vs. the Panthers and Randle has had his moments.

DarkSaint
12-18-2012, 09:44 AM
To be honest, of all of our wide receivers, the guy who I've noticed the open the most number of times, in comparison to the number of snaps, is Barden. Yeah he's made some dumb plays, but you will notice that he does get open, maybe it's because the defenses ignore him.

Buddy333
12-18-2012, 09:44 AM
He played in 7 games, then tore his ACL.So are you saying 1 catch in 7 games was impressive?

nhpgiantsfan
12-18-2012, 10:24 AM
Hixon's stats are close to what MM's were last year. But the big reason we miss MM, is because of the Nicks injury. Having MM in the depth chart while Nicks was hurt would've really softened the blow.

VBGiantsFan
12-18-2012, 10:27 AM
I'm saying Toomer was not even given an opportunity to start that season, and as the season progresses you get more chances but he was stunted by an early season injury.

Toomer was primarily a punt returner just like Randle, you tell me who had better stats in that department.

Buddy333
12-18-2012, 10:43 AM
I'm saying Toomer was not even given an opportunity to start that season, and as the season progresses you get more chances but he was stunted by an early season injury.Toomer was primarily a punt returner just like Randle, you tell me who had better stats in that department.The same guy you used as the reason for their offensive problems, Manningham, also did nothing his rookie season.

TroyArcher
12-18-2012, 10:45 AM
Hixon has been good this year, I would bet his stats match that of Manningham's. Nicks injury has hurt.

stormblue
12-18-2012, 10:48 AM
for offensive struggles , you are looking at the wrong end of the passing game.
it is not our receivers or our o-line
it is Eli's poor play and KG's stale game-planning and lousy situational play-calling
and TC's failure to put the best player available on the field instead of the walking wounded.

and as far as MM goes....his yards per target last year was 7.1
Hixon's is 9.8...almost 3 yards better.

as of right now....Hixon is only 33 yards behind MM's production last year (490 to 523).......with 23 less targets.
if Eli throws it at Hixon 23 more times , i'm sure he'll get more than 33 yards.

statistically....Hixon > MM.
he also averages more yards per catch than Nicks or Cruz.
but hell Eli...lets just keep throwing it at the "cripple" and "rock-a-fella" into double coverage.

and i'm not saying the defense is any better , they are pathetic.....but the OP didn't ask about that.

RoanokeFan
12-18-2012, 10:56 AM
I think we are missing a healthy Nicks and not missing a speedy Manningham. To be sure Hixon is filling in fine. I haven't seen enough of Randle to say he's good or a bust. Still think our O line needs some serious help!

Randle will be the #3 when he plays better than Hixon who, when healthy, has been doing a good job for us.

Ruttiger711
12-18-2012, 11:02 AM
Biggest difference I've seen is we went from being extremely effective on 3rd and "whatever" passing plays - downright lethal compared to this year where we've been downright *****cat. Years ago we could count on 3rd and Smith for picking up the crucial 3rd down catches AT THE MARKER. Then last year Cruz could be thrown short of the sticks but he had the ability to juke for those necessary few (at least). This year I've seen more than I'd like of 3rd and 6+ and we throw to Hixon for 4.

dezzzR
12-18-2012, 11:06 AM
He can't be considered a bust in his rookie season is what I'm saying. Barden is a bust definitely, Jernigan is a bust, but not a rookie.Barden had a great game against the Panthers and how is JJ suppose to see the field when we have Nicks Cruz and Hixon? Hardly busts.

RoanokeFan
12-18-2012, 11:15 AM
Biggest difference I've seen is we went from being extremely effective on 3rd and "whatever" passing plays - downright lethal compared to this year where we've been downright *****cat. Years ago we could count on 3rd and Smith for picking up the crucial 3rd down catches AT THE MARKER. Then last year Cruz could be thrown short of the sticks but he had the ability to juke for those necessary few (at least). This year I've seen more than I'd like of 3rd and 6+ and we throw to Hixon for 4. Where do you think Hixon is in the progression?

stormblue
12-18-2012, 11:22 AM
Hixon averages more yards per catch than Nicks or Cruz.....
so what are all these 4 yard catches on 3rd and 6 ?
i guarantee Cruz has more 3rd down drops than Hixon has 4 yard catcthes.

RoanokeFan
12-18-2012, 11:26 AM
Here are the receivers' stats through last game:






Victor Cruz
79
1,019
12.9
80
9


Hakeem Nicks
53
692
13.1
50
3


Martellus Bennett
50
584
11.7
33
5


Domenik Hixon
34
490
14.4
41
1


Ahmad Bradshaw
21
196
9.3
59
0


Ramses Barden
14
220
15.7
31
0


Rueben Randle
14
197
14.1
56
1


Andre Brown
12
86
7.2
17
0


Henry Hynoski
9
41
4.6
8
0


Bear Pascoe
4
35
8.8
16
1


David Wilson
3
19
6.3
11
0


Jerrel Jernigan
2
15
7.5
9
0




It doesn't copy well

sharick88
12-18-2012, 11:56 AM
Last year we had 3 receivers who were borderline uncoverable. This year teams bracket Cruz, single cover a hampered Nicks and guys like Hixon, Randle (bust?), Barden (bust?), Jernigan (bust...no question mark) cannot beat their coverage at all.

If we had Manningham still, we'd be a top flight offense.

You are easily one of the worst posters in recent memory. You're welcome

stormblue
12-18-2012, 12:15 PM
Here are the receivers' stats through last game:






Victor Cruz
79
1,019
12.9
80
9


Hakeem Nicks
53
692
13.1
50
3


Martellus Bennett
50
584
11.7
33
5


Domenik Hixon
34
490
14.4
41
1


Ahmad Bradshaw
21
196
9.3
59
0


Ramses Barden
14
220
15.7
31
0


Rueben Randle
14
197
14.1
56
1


Andre Brown
12
86
7.2
17
0


Henry Hynoski
9
41
4.6
8
0


Bear Pascoe
4
35
8.8
16
1


David Wilson
3
19
6.3
11
0


Jerrel Jernigan
2
15
7.5
9
0






It doesn't copy well

thank you 'Noke

that's exactly what a lot of people around here don't understand.
Hixon , Randle , and Barden all average more yards per catch than Cruz or Nicks or MM last year

they also average more catches per target.

and what is really astounding about your stats up there Roanoke ; that i had not realized ...
Hixon , Barden and Randle have only 2 drops combined together with over 150 targets.

people are crying about MM when there is nothing wrong with our receiving corps.....
except we are not giving the right people more opportunity.

GameTime
12-18-2012, 12:31 PM
Last year we had 3 receivers who were borderline uncoverable. This year teams bracket Cruz, single cover a hampered Nicks and guys like Hixon, Randle (bust?), Barden (bust?), Jernigan (bust...no question mark) cannot beat their coverage at all.

If we had Manningham still, we'd be a top flight offense.
wrong....
no running game and Nicks has been hurt pretty much all year. You are already calling Randle a bust with a "?"....foolish. Eli has been off too and it has 0 to do with the WR...he is just off.
Manningham is not the savoir of this offense. I liked him but thats not the main issue

RoanokeFan
12-18-2012, 12:35 PM
thank you 'Noke

that's exactly what a lot of people around here don't understand.
Hixon , Randle , and Barden all average more yards per catch than Cruz or Nicks or MM last year

they also average more catches per target.

and what is really astounding about your stats up there Roanoke ; that i had not realized ...
Hixon , Barden and Randle have only 2 drops combined together with over 150 targets.

people are crying about MM when there is nothing wrong with our receiving corps.....
except we are not giving the right people more opportunity.

It's just easier to sing the praises of a player who has left so there can't possibly be any factual response. We have the players we have and Hixon is far from being a drop off from Manningham. But that's how some see it.

Rudyy
12-18-2012, 12:40 PM
Barden had a great game against the Panthers and how is JJ suppose to see the field when we have Nicks Cruz and Hixon? Hardly busts.Barde had ONE good game against a terrible Panthers team, and he still has no touchdowns. Nicks, Cruz, and Hixon are on the field because they have proven they deserve to be there. Jernigan has not. What has he done to make you think otherwise?

dezzzR
12-18-2012, 01:03 PM
Barde had ONE good game against a terrible Panthers team, and he still has no touchdowns. Nicks, Cruz, and Hixon are on the field because they have proven they deserve to be there. Jernigan has not. What has he done to make you think otherwise?Theyre on the field because theyre proven vets that know the system. Who cares if Barden didnt get a td, he owned the Panthers secondary.

Rudyy
12-18-2012, 01:10 PM
Theyre on the field because theyre proven vets that know the system. Who cares if Barden didnt get a td, he owned the Panthers secondary.Ok again, what has Jernigan done or proven to make you think he's not a bust? He hasnt proven a thing. What has Barden don't since that Carolina game? Get a silly offensive pass interference against Philly.

Shockeystays08
12-18-2012, 01:22 PM
Ok again, what has Jernigan done or proven to make you think he's not a bust? He hasnt proven a thing. What has Barden don't since that Carolina game? Get a silly offensive pass interference against Philly.

Jernigan must be doing something in the coaches eyes. The last 2 games he saw the field before and more often than Barden or Randle. He was inactive earlier in the year when all receivers were healthy. Not the case now. In regard to what has JJ done so far? Well Cruz is in front of him but JJ had a very good camp and had more top five plays of the day than any other WR. His time is coming. Way to soon to label him a bust. Barden was taken to offer some Plax type skills. That hasn't evolved. He is the closest thing we have to a bust at WR. Just an opinion.

RoanokeFan
12-18-2012, 01:25 PM
Jernigan must be doing something in the coaches eyes. The last 2 games he saw the field before and more often than Barden or Randle. He was inactive earlier in the year when all receivers were healthy. Not the case now. In regard to what has JJ done so far? Well Cruz is in front of him but JJ had a very good camp and had more top five plays of the day than any other WR. His time is coming. Way to soon to label him a bust. Barden was taken to offer some Plax type skills. That hasn't evolved. He is the closest thing we have to a bust at WR. Just an opinion.

The ball boy sees the field more than Barden. Randle muffed two punts. It makes sense that they would try Jernigan but he needs to take advantage.

pino
12-18-2012, 01:28 PM
I like Manningham, but our struggles is not because we are missing a 2nd string WR. For answers, look no further than our offensive line. It's a domino effect; line doesn't block, Eli plays bad, running game gets hurt, and we struggle in the red zone and keeping drives going.

Ruttiger711
12-18-2012, 01:29 PM
Where do you think Hixon is in the progression?

I have no real idea BUT,

I'm guessing 3rd on these 3rd and medium to long plays ( i dont think its a stretch to assume this) - this last week and a couple of others where we get these results it seems that both Nicks and Cruz are lined up wide and the D gets enough pressure where Eli doesnt have the time to see where Nicks and Cruz are going or they simply cant get off their guy... then has to dump to Hixon.

I dont think Hixon short is by any means the route of choice - just only whats been available.

BeatYale
12-18-2012, 01:58 PM
Last year we had 3 receivers who were borderline uncoverable. This year teams bracket Cruz, single cover a hampered Nicks and guys like Hixon, Randle (bust?), Barden (bust?), Jernigan (bust...no question mark) cannot beat their coverage at all.

If we had Manningham still, we'd be a top flight offense.

It's obvious you think Manningham is a good WR. I got no problems with that thought. The problem I have is your stupid logic in labeling Randle a bust(?) considering Manningham was a non factor his rookie season. At least Randle contributed significantly in one of our victories this season. With that said how can you (logically) question Randle being a bust?

RoanokeFan
12-18-2012, 02:06 PM
I have no real idea BUT,

I'm guessing 3rd on these 3rd and medium to long plays ( i dont think its a stretch to assume this) - this last week and a couple of others where we get these results it seems that both Nicks and Cruz are lined up wide and the D gets enough pressure where Eli doesnt have the time to see where Nicks and Cruz are going or they simply cant get off their guy... then has to dump to Hixon.

I dont think Hixon short is by any means the route of choice - just only whats been available.

I ask because he has the most yards per catch of the three top receivers. As embarrassing as the Falcon's games was, the team has to put it in a lock box and foreget it. We have a good stable of receivers down to Randle. I'm not laying the loss at Eli's feet, but when he is off, the bread and butter of the offense is off.

Ruttiger711
12-18-2012, 02:19 PM
I ask because he's has the most yards per catch of the three top receivers. As embarrassing as the Falcon's games was, the team has to put it in a lock box and foreget it. We have a good stable of receivers down to Randle. I'm not laying the loss at Eli's feet, but when he is off, the bread and butter of the offense is off.

I think they can put it away, sure - but Nicks will not be 100% until football is over this year... and Cruz, well I'll just say he's showing to be hesitant over the middle.

I dont really know about the Raven's secondary other than Reed - if they can force our "options" to where they want them like Atlanta did, we're in trouble.

dezzzR
12-18-2012, 02:19 PM
Ok again, what has Jernigan done or proven to make you think he's not a bust? He hasnt proven a thing. What has Barden don't since that Carolina game? Get a silly offensive pass interference against Philly.How can he prove anything when the Giants have vets in front of him? Just because he doesnt see the field much doesnt mean hes a bust.

RoanokeFan
12-18-2012, 02:21 PM
How can he prove anything when the Giants have vets in front of him? Just because he doesnt see the field much doesnt mean hes a bust.

The only WR bust, for me, is Barden. I should add Beckum who is listed as a TE but no one would confuse him with a true tight end so I think he's a closet WR whose time has come and gone.

nhpgiantsfan
12-18-2012, 03:15 PM
It's just easier to sing the praises of a player who has left so there can't possibly be any factual response. We have the players we have and Hixon is far from being a drop off from Manningham. But that's how some see it.

Hixon has been decent and I agree as the number 3 receiver, he is not much of a drop off from Manningham. However, when Nicks is hurt and missed games, it would have been great to have MM here to take Nicks' role as the starter.

Rudyy
12-18-2012, 03:17 PM
How can he prove anything when the Giants have vets in front of him? Just because he doesnt see the field much doesnt mean hes a bust.When he's on the field he doesnt produce, this is why he doesnt even see the field.

dezzzR
12-18-2012, 03:31 PM
When he's on the field he doesnt produce, this is why he doesnt even see the field.Guys lucky if hes seen the field with Eli 15 times this year. Hes not needed at the moment. Youre over reacting.

dezzzR
12-18-2012, 03:33 PM
The only WR bust, for me, is Barden. I should add Beckum who is listed as a TE but no one would confuse him with a true tight end so I think he's a closet WR whose time has come and gone.Yea Iv never been big on Barden. But I think I should eat crow on Beckum. I thought he could produce in the passing game.

Rudyy
12-18-2012, 03:42 PM
Guys lucky if hes seen the field with Eli 15 times this year. Hes not needed at the moment. Youre over reacting.Nah :)

NYGfanNC
12-18-2012, 04:44 PM
Toomer caught ONE pass his rookie season.

Randle's stats are very similar to Toomer's second year in the league.

YATittle1962
12-18-2012, 04:57 PM
I'll never understand this love affair with Mario Manningham

guy is and was average at best

OrangeGiant
12-18-2012, 05:24 PM
I really have grown to hate the term "bust". It's used for every player who doesn't make an immediate impact on a team without considering the situation at that position on a team. It typically takes a receiver about 3 years to really adjust to the difference in the between college DB's and pro DB's. Calling Randle a bust at this point is as ridiculous as the people who were calling Wilson a bust before his game against NO. How can he be a bust when he plays a handful of plays per game at this point?

The biggest issue is the fact that Nicks is hurt and is not even closr to the player he was last year, which affects the way defenses play him and also play Cruz. Hixon is more than capable of filling in for Manningham and has played well in that role. Add in the fact that Eli is not making good decisions with the ball, missing open receivers, and is just not playing well right now. That isn't a knock on him, that is fact.

RoanokeFan
12-18-2012, 05:51 PM
Yea Iv never been big on Barden. But I think I should eat crow on Beckum. I thought he could produce in the passing game.

He's (Beckum) just not proven anything at any point in any game he's managed to get on the field.

Ruttiger711
12-18-2012, 06:25 PM
He's (Beckum) just not proven anything at any point in any game he's managed to get on the field.Well maybe ONCE - the catch and run in the GB loss last year?

nyfan1029
12-18-2012, 06:52 PM
We wrent any better in the regular season last year either....9-7. Manningham was a good player but I would have saved the money too.

miked1958
12-18-2012, 08:17 PM
The only WR bust, for me, is Barden. I should add Beckum who is listed as a TE but no one would confuse him with a true tight end so I think he's a closet WR whose time has come and gone.dont want to question the coaches and the reason he isn't seeing more playing time. Seemed after he broke out those two games he has been seldom seen. Could it be that he is still being punished for the offensive PI that they caused? Or is there things going on behind the scenes at practice that we are not aware of?

RoanokeFan
12-18-2012, 08:21 PM
Well maybe ONCE - the catch and run in the GB loss last year?

AH, that's why we keep him :D

RoanokeFan
12-18-2012, 08:25 PM
dont want to question the coaches and the reason he isn't seeing more playing time. Seemed after he broke out those two games he has been seldom seen. Could it be that he is still being punished for the offensive PI that they caused? Or is there things going on behind the scenes at practice that we are not aware of?

No, I don't think the penalty has anything to do with it. If that were the case, we'd not be fielding an OLine. Barden just isn't that good. I knows he has size but that has yet to translate into a plus for Barden. I see him as the current Sinorice Moss who Reese once said "caught everything thrown to him in practice." His one major flaw that I rememeber was constantly running out of first downs trying to make a defender miss.

I did have some renewed hope in that one game this year but he can't even get ahead of Randle on the depth chart.

Flip Empty
12-18-2012, 08:28 PM
Lumbering possession receiver. I don't think that's what they were looking for in Barden.

miked1958
12-18-2012, 08:36 PM
Lumbering possession receiver. I don't think that's what they were looking for in Barden.yea but he looked pretty dominating doing it. Seemed unstoppable at the time. But that was vs Carolina

RoanokeFan
12-18-2012, 08:44 PM
yea but he looked pretty dominating doing it. Seemed unstoppable at the time. But that was vs Carolina

Sort of the the team's season, inexplicable

BigBlue1971
12-18-2012, 08:59 PM
Last year we had 3 receivers who were borderline uncoverable. This year teams bracket Cruz, single cover a hampered Nicks and guys like Hixon, Randle (bust?), Barden (bust?), Jernigan (bust...no question mark) cannot beat their coverage at all.

If we had Manningham still, we'd be a top flight offense.

Manningham wouldnt make or break this season! if he was here he wouldnt be any different.

what makes you think Eli would be able to get him the ball? thats the problem with the passing this year either the ball is uncatchable or the receiver drops it!

we've had many bad breaks and mistakes! thats the way the season has gone! we are fortunate to be in the position we're in!

if here Manningham wouldve just experienced these bad breaks and mistakes with us! he wouldnt make huge difference....imo!

TheBookOfEli
12-18-2012, 09:18 PM
We wrent any better in the regular season last year either....9-7. Manningham was a good player but I would have saved the money too.

Yeah but Eli's numbers last year were amazing. This year? All numbers down.