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View Full Version : State of the Giants: Why they're 8-6



CruznNicks
12-18-2012, 07:41 PM
As another season reaches it's climax, the New York Giants find themselves in a position their all to familiar with. WIN OUT OR ELSE! Unfortunately, that's been the Giants M.O under the realm of Coughlin & Company; You can point numerous reasons why the Giants are inconsistant, but i'll give you the top 5 reasons.

5. Oline- This is a position that Jerry Reese has ignored since he took over. Outside of Will Beatty, what draft pick has panned out in the last 5 seasons? I'll wait! How bad is your oline when a career back up journey man RG Boothe is starting? Boothe is a damn good backup but shouldn't be starting because he's not starting material. DD can't no longer play and Locklear was a stop gap. Baas is a below average center that the Giants overpaid by a mile. These guys can't get to the second level and defenses are stopping the Giants running game with just seven in the box. Watch Minnesota or Baltimore oline block and you'll see the difference. Those guys are maulers and get to the second level w/o any problems. Minnesota runs the ball well with 9 in the box and the Giants struggle with 7 in the box. This current group needs to be blown up and rebuilt.

4. Lack of team speed- This is the area that hurts the Giants most on both sides of the ball. On offense the Giants has no one to stretch the field ala (Mike Wallace, DeSean Jackson or Julio Jones). Cruz and Nicks are great recievers but neither are homerun threads by any stretch. I'm tired of seeing those 7-9 yrd option routes ever single pass play. Anyone notice that their are 2 or 3 guys around Cruz and Nicks everytime they catch the ball? Mike Wallace is a FA, this to me should be one of the Giants biggest targets in free agency. I know he would cost money, but he would open up Nicks and Cruz in the slot.

3. Defense- I'm on the fire Fewell bandwagon. When Canty said the defense wasn't "Physical enough", he wasn't talking about the players. He was talking about scheme. How many read n react type defenses have success in this league? Pittsburgh, Houston and even Dallas have an attacking defense. Yes, before Dallas lost all thier defensive starters, they were a good defense. Pittsburgh punched RG3 in the mouth and the Giants sit back and get picked apart. The Giants react instead of attacking. They get punched instead of punching. Alot of it has to do with the lack of team speed. Webster and Prince are slow, Rolle constantly take bad angles. and Blackburn has the speed of a turtle. The linebackers aren't good at all. Blackburn is not a good linebacker. Just because he get guys lined up and the team's best option doesn't make him any good. It just say's he's smart with mediocre talent. Chase continues to hit the wrong hole and give up big plays constantly. Boley has regressed and Williams can't stay healthy. Canty is useless and Benard needs to be cut. The Giants has to get faster on defense. DRC is a FA, maybe with Prince on the other side with Hosley in the slot. Rolle, Canty, Webster and Boley needs to be cut. Don't know how much that saves, but i'm sure it'll be a good amount.

2. Eli Manning- This guy is wearing thin on me really fast. I'm so tired of the chuck and duck. 9 yrs and this guy is still throwing into coverages like he's a rookie in his first game. Some of it might be scheme, but this guy is not an ELITE qb. I watch guys like Brady, P.Manning, Brees and then you watch Eli and you see the difference. You watch Nick Foles go up and down the field with a patched up oline and w/o Jackson. Gilbride and Eli can't score on ATL.

1. Coaching- Sometimes making the playoffs and winning the superbowl can hide tons of flaws with a football team. When a coach has to constantly bring in guys to motivated grown men, something is wrong. Maybe his voice is wearing thin on the players. No creativity on offense or defense. No tricks plays to help a struggling offense. I believe the magic has ran out and Reese has alot of work to do. Gilbride lack of adjustments shouldn't go unnoticed. It seemed like ATL knew exactly what the Giants was running. That option route offense is killing the offense and the Giants need a creative OC.

Overall, maybe not making the playoffs is a good thing. It will force Reese's hand and changes will be made. Maybe hiring a young DC from the Niners or Steelers will be a great start. Unfortunately, Gilbride and Eli has been together too long and he will probaly stay.

Rudyy
12-18-2012, 07:43 PM
I pretty much agree with everything you said. Not the Foles thing though, definitely off on that one.
Brees is inconsistent as well, so I wouldn't put him with P. Manning and Tom.

nyfan1029
12-18-2012, 07:48 PM
Crazy thread. They are 8-6 because they havent played very consistent all year but we are still in the hunt!

Breezely
12-18-2012, 07:57 PM
I understand what you are saying but cannot fully agree. I can agree with most of what you said to a point. I believe the Giants problem is the same problem that the majority of NFL teams experience from time to time. . . . . . .INCONSISTENCY!!!!! There are times within the season where the Giants' look like crap and then there are times they look totally dominating. How much of it was the Falcons and their preparation and their revenge factor????? I live in Atlanta and you should have heard the Sports talk circuit the week before. They were totally humiliated by the Carolina Panthers. Many have said that the Falcons were looking past Carolina and to the Giants who humiliated them in the playoffs last year.

Moke
12-18-2012, 08:04 PM
Crazy thread. They are 8-6 because they havent played very consistent all year but we are still in the hunt!

That's just the back door exit reason.

CruznNicks
12-18-2012, 08:10 PM
I understand what you are saying but cannot fully agree. I can agree with most of what you said to a point. I believe the Giants problem is the same problem that the majority of NFL teams experience from time to time. . . . . . .INCONSISTENCY!!!!! There are times within the season where the Giants' look like crap and then there are times they look totally dominating. How much of it was the Falcons and their preparation and their revenge factor????? I live in Atlanta and you should have heard the Sports talk circuit the week before. They were totally humiliated by the Carolina Panthers. Many have said that the Falcons were looking past Carolina and to the Giants who humiliated them in the playoffs last year.

I understand what you're saying but look at it this way! When the Giants look dominating, could it be that the other team played terrible? The Giants are not 26-3 better than the Niners. Also ATL is not 34-0 better than the Giants. What we do know is that the Giants offense is predictable, flawed and the defense is hot garbage. Look at the Pats and Niners and you see consistancy.

bigbluetribe
12-18-2012, 08:19 PM
Some valid points others not. Biggest thing i agree on is the defensive scheme, maybe not fewell just what he runs is garbage. Lets just play football and stop trying to be the most complicated team out there

Breezely
12-18-2012, 08:22 PM
I have a better question. . . . . .who had more motivation to play well, in the 49er/Giants game??? I would say that the 49ers would have had revenge on their minds and would have NOT taken the Giants lightly. So if the 49ers was not motivated to beat the Giants then I would say they have bigger issues.
The Falcons was very much motivated and may have caught the Giants in one of their inconsistent ruts that they get in. I guarantee you if they meet in the playoffs, there will be a different result.

ELI_HOF_NYG
12-18-2012, 08:33 PM
As another season reaches it's climax, the New York Giants find themselves in a position their all to familiar with. WIN OUT OR ELSE! Unfortunately, that's been the Giants M.O under the realm of Coughlin & Company; You can point numerous reasons why the Giants are inconsistant, but i'll give you the top 5 reasons.

5. Oline- This is a position that Jerry Reese has ignored since he took over. Outside of Will Beatty, what draft pick has panned out in the last 5 seasons? I'll wait! How bad is your oline when a career back up journey man RG Boothe is starting? Boothe is a damn good backup but shouldn't be starting because he's not starting material. DD can't no longer play and Locklear was a stop gap. Baas is a below average center that the Giants overpaid by a mile. These guys can't get to the second level and defenses are stopping the Giants running game with just seven in the box. Watch Minnesota or Baltimore oline block and you'll see the difference. Those guys are maulers and get to the second level w/o any problems. Minnesota runs the ball well with 9 in the box and the Giants struggle with 7 in the box. This current group needs to be blown up and rebuilt.

4. Lack of team speed- This is the area that hurts the Giants most on both sides of the ball. On offense the Giants has no one to stretch the field ala (Mike Wallace, DeSean Jackson or Julio Jones). Cruz and Nicks are great recievers but neither are homerun threads by any stretch. I'm tired of seeing those 7-9 yrd option routes ever single pass play. Anyone notice that their are 2 or 3 guys around Cruz and Nicks everytime they catch the ball? Mike Wallace is a FA, this to me should be one of the Giants biggest targets in free agency. I know he would cost money, but he would open up Nicks and Cruz in the slot.

3. Defense- I'm on the fire Fewell bandwagon. When Canty said the defense wasn't "Physical enough", he wasn't talking about the players. He was talking about scheme. How many read n react type defenses have success in this league? Pittsburgh, Houston and even Dallas have an attacking defense. Yes, before Dallas lost all thier defensive starters, they were a good defense. Pittsburgh punched RG3 in the mouth and the Giants sit back and get picked apart. The Giants react instead of attacking. They get punched instead of punching. Alot of it has to do with the lack of team speed. Webster and Prince are slow, Rolle constantly take bad angles. and Blackburn has the speed of a turtle. The linebackers aren't good at all. Blackburn is not a good linebacker. Just because he get guys lined up and the team's best option doesn't make him any good. It just say's he's smart with mediocre talent. Chase continues to hit the wrong hole and give up big plays constantly. Boley has regressed and Williams can't stay healthy. Canty is useless and Benard needs to be cut. The Giants has to get faster on defense. DRC is a FA, maybe with Prince on the other side with Hosley in the slot. Rolle, Canty, Webster and Boley needs to be cut. Don't know how much that saves, but i'm sure it'll be a good amount.

2. Eli Manning- This guy is wearing thin on me really fast. I'm so tired of the chuck and duck. 9 yrs and this guy is still throwing into coverages like he's a rookie in his first game. Some of it might be scheme, but this guy is not an ELITE qb. I watch guys like Brady, P.Manning, Brees and then you watch Eli and you see the difference. You watch Nick Foles go up and down the field with a patched up oline and w/o Jackson. Gilbride and Eli can't score on ATL.

1. Coaching- Sometimes making the playoffs and winning the superbowl can hide tons of flaws with a football team. When a coach has to constantly bring in guys to motivated grown men, something is wrong. Maybe his voice is wearing thin on the players. No creativity on offense or defense. No tricks plays to help a struggling offense. I believe the magic has ran out and Reese has alot of work to do. Gilbride lack of adjustments shouldn't go unnoticed. It seemed like ATL knew exactly what the Giants was running. That option route offense is killing the offense and the Giants need a creative OC.

Overall, maybe not making the playoffs is a good thing. It will force Reese's hand and changes will be made. Maybe hiring a young DC from the Niners or Steelers will be a great start. Unfortunately, Gilbride and Eli has been together too long and he will probaly stay.

one word could have summed that all up and saved you some time...INCONSISTENCY.

YATittle1962
12-18-2012, 08:48 PM
As another season reaches it's climax, the New York Giants find themselves in a position their all to familiar with. WIN OUT OR ELSE! Unfortunately, that's been the Giants M.O under the realm of Coughlin & Company; You can point numerous reasons why the Giants are inconsistant, but i'll give you the top 5 reasons.

5. Oline- This is a position that Jerry Reese has ignored since he took over. Outside of Will Beatty, what draft pick has panned out in the last 5 seasons? I'll wait! How bad is your oline when a career back up journey man RG Boothe is starting? Boothe is a damn good backup but shouldn't be starting because he's not starting material. DD can't no longer play and Locklear was a stop gap. Baas is a below average center that the Giants overpaid by a mile. These guys can't get to the second level and defenses are stopping the Giants running game with just seven in the box. Watch Minnesota or Baltimore oline block and you'll see the difference. Those guys are maulers and get to the second level w/o any problems. Minnesota runs the ball well with 9 in the box and the Giants struggle with 7 in the box. This current group*needs to be blown up and rebuilt.

4. Lack of team speed- This is the area that hurts the Giants most on both sides of the ball. On offense the Giants has no one to stretch the field ala (Mike Wallace, DeSean Jackson or Julio Jones). Cruz and Nicks are great recievers but neither are homerun threads by any stretch. I'm tired of seeing those 7-9 yrd option routes ever single pass play. Anyone notice that their are 2 or 3 guys around Cruz and Nicks everytime they catch the ball? Mike Wallace is a FA, this to me should be one of the Giants biggest targets in free agency. I know he would cost money, but he would open up Nicks and Cruz in the slot.

3. Defense- I'm on the fire Fewell bandwagon. When Canty said the defense wasn't "Physical enough", he wasn't talking about the players. He was talking about scheme. How many read n react type defenses have success in this league? Pittsburgh, Houston and even Dallas have an attacking defense. Yes, before Dallas lost all thier defensive starters, they were a good defense. Pittsburgh punched RG3 in the mouth and the Giants sit back and get picked apart. The Giants react instead of attacking. They get punched instead of punching. Alot of it has to do with the lack of team speed. Webster and Prince are slow, Rolle constantly take bad angles. and Blackburn has the speed of a turtle. The linebackers aren't good at all. Blackburn is not a good linebacker. Just because he get guys lined up and the team's best option doesn't make him any good. It just say's he's smart with mediocre talent. Chase continues to hit the wrong hole and give up big plays constantly. Boley has regressed and Williams can't stay healthy. Canty is useless and Benard needs to be cut. The Giants has to get faster on defense. DRC is a FA, maybe with Prince on the other side with Hosley in the slot. Rolle, Canty, Webster and Boley needs to be cut. Don't know how much that saves, but i'm sure it'll be a good amount.

2. Eli Manning- This guy is wearing thin on me really fast. I'm so tired of the chuck and duck. 9 yrs and this guy is still throwing into coverages like he's a rookie in his first game. Some of it might be scheme, but this guy is not an ELITE qb. I watch guys like Brady, P.Manning, Brees and then you watch Eli and you see the difference. You watch Nick Foles go up and down the field with a patched up oline and w/o Jackson. Gilbride and Eli can't score on ATL.

1. Coaching- Sometimes making the playoffs and winning the superbowl can hide tons of flaws with a football team. When a coach has to constantly bring in guys to motivated grown men, something is wrong. Maybe his voice is wearing thin on the players. No creativity on offense or defense. No tricks plays to help a struggling offense. I believe the magic has ran out and Reese has alot of work to do. Gilbride lack of adjustments shouldn't go unnoticed. It seemed like ATL knew exactly what the Giants was running. That option route offense is killing the offense and the Giants need a creative OC.

Overall, maybe not making the playoffs is a good thing. It will force Reese's hand and changes will be made. Maybe hiring a young DC from the Niners or Steelers will be a great start. Unfortunately, Gilbride and Eli has been together too long and he will probaly stay.

nicely thought out post

I mostly agree

GameTime
12-18-2012, 08:48 PM
Foles is good and Eli isnt...yeah....OK....

dakotajoe
12-18-2012, 09:00 PM
Foles is good and Eli isnt...yeah....OK....

Haha, I was going to comment on the Foles , Manning comparison too but I won't.

On Mike Wallace - I don't know the ins and outs of our salary cap situation but isn't the team a bit squeezed now for a guy that wants a lot of money. I spend some time on the Steelers forums and their fans are often complaining that Wallace is a one dimensional player with average hands and receiving skills. I don't watch him enough to analyze his skills but he probably commands too high of a price tag.

I think our receiving corps are great, when healthy. Practicing help too, but the Giants love to start players who only practice once a week.

Flip Empty
12-18-2012, 09:08 PM
The Giants have restructured the hell out of players' contracts, so in many cases, cutting someone just isn't viable.

miked1958
12-18-2012, 09:11 PM
Crazy thread. They are 8-6 because they havent played very consistent all year but we are still in the hunt!the exact same thing could be said in both SB winning seasons

Diamondring
12-18-2012, 09:22 PM
The real reason Giants are having trouble is their competition and the NFL is hard. It is not easy and a lot of teams have talent. Look at the Pats and 49ers, they aren't perfect. Only a few teams are looking real good like Antlanta. They may even have troubles later on since the Giants are inconsistant but it is not all on them but the competition. Look at the Pats, their division is weak. Ours is strong with two other teams in the hunt.

Flip Empty
12-18-2012, 09:32 PM
"The NFL is hard" is as bad an excuse as I've ever heard.

gmen0820
12-18-2012, 10:15 PM
Did you praise Nick Foles? Come on dude, don't discredit such a long post... Foles has been far from impressive.

Rudyy
12-18-2012, 10:18 PM
Did you praise Nick Foles? Come on dude, don't discredit such a long post... Foles has been far from impressive.Some Eagles fans said he was the next Tom Brady. Lol..

brad
12-18-2012, 10:20 PM
Some Eagles fans said he was the next Tom Brady. Lol..

He might be... but even Brady would suck in Philly... LOL

Buddy333
12-18-2012, 10:29 PM
They are horrible in the red zone.

Buddy333
12-18-2012, 10:33 PM
The Giants better win this game because next week they play the Eagles. The Eagles own the Giants and would like to close out a bad season as spoilers.

Toadofsteel
12-18-2012, 10:37 PM
He might be... but even Brady would suck in Philly... LOL

Except when they played us... which might make Brady take a stint in Philly when his days in NE are done (like "KC QB Joe Montana"), just so he can wail on Eli for losing 2 super bowls...