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moosedrool
12-18-2012, 09:45 PM
I was finally able to sit down and watch the game a second time. The second play of the game, David Wilson gets BLOWN UP by Sean Weatherspoon while pass blocking. He gets ejected right into Eli and Eli throws the first INT of the game.

All of you wondering why TC doesn't trust Wilson and does trust Bradshaw, just watch this play and you will understand why.

miked1958
12-18-2012, 10:02 PM
There you go. Until the kid learns he will be nothing more then a situational player

Kez Simpson
12-18-2012, 10:08 PM
Agreed, I watched that play again, and it seems it affected the timing/placement of Eli throwing motion. I think Lumpkin might be better in pass protection.

GameTime
12-18-2012, 10:09 PM
Wilson gets blown off the block but Eli is already throwing.......ehhh....I think it was a ****ty pass. I am not an Eli basher either....

Toadofsteel
12-18-2012, 10:13 PM
If that was the sole reason for the pick, he wouldn't throw picks whenever Bradshaw is in...

TheAussieGiant
12-18-2012, 10:14 PM
Eli threw a bad pass. Wilson's block was bad. But at least he held Weatherspoon up for a split second instead of completely whiffing on it.

Asante trusted that the deep route was covered by his safety over the top and gambled on an underneath pass. Rewatching it I thought Eli could have gone deep and had a huge play, benefit of hindsight.

Was a good play from a playmaking corner.

GameTime
12-18-2012, 10:15 PM
If that was the sole reason for the pick, he wouldn't throw picks whenever Bradshaw is in...
that doesnt even make sense....
the OP isnt saying Eli only throws picks when Wilson is or when blocks break down fron RB. he is talking about THAT play

nycisgreat
12-18-2012, 10:20 PM
Eli threw a bad pass. Wilson's block was bad. But at least he held Weatherspoon up for a split second instead of completely whiffing on it.

Asante trusted that the deep route was covered by his safety over the top and gambled on an underneath pass. Rewatching it I thought Eli could have gone deep and had a huge play, benefit of hindsight.

Was a good play from a playmaking corner.

+1. I was thinking the same thing too.

Toadofsteel
12-18-2012, 10:22 PM
Eli threw a bad pass. Wilson's block was bad. But at least he held Weatherspoon up for a split second instead of completely whiffing on it.

Asante trusted that the deep route was covered by his safety over the top and gambled on an underneath pass. Rewatching it I thought Eli could have gone deep and had a huge play, benefit of hindsight.

Was a good play from a playmaking corner.

It's true that Asante Samuel is Eli's kryptonite... he's the reason we lost to freaking VY last year. He just naturally exposes our scheme, and that's the most annoying thing. Personally I think we should try to trade for him, not just for his own legit skills, but also because he'd be great in practice to help us improve our weak points in the passing scheme, and even more, we'd never have to play against him ever again...

Buddy333
12-18-2012, 10:26 PM
It was a bad pass and bad block.

Roosevelt
12-18-2012, 10:27 PM
I was finally able to sit down and watch the game a second time. The second play of the game, David Wilson gets BLOWN UP by Sean Weatherspoon while pass blocking. He gets ejected right into Eli and Eli throws the first INT of the game.

All of you wondering why TC doesn't trust Wilson and does trust Bradshaw, just watch this play and you will understand why.

Dude, you can't just talk crap like that. Wilson's pick-up had NOTHING to do with the pick.

Roosevelt
12-18-2012, 10:28 PM
There you go. Until the kid learns he will be nothing more then a situational player

Get a grip. Watch the play for yourself instead on talking out your ***.

TheEnigma
12-18-2012, 10:31 PM
Neither Wilson or Eli really did well on that play. We should know better than to test Asante Samuel RIGHT out of the gates like that but yeah...Wilson is going to get hurt if he keeps trying to pass block like that.

moosedrool
12-18-2012, 11:09 PM
Dude, you can't just talk crap like that. Wilson's pick-up had NOTHING to do with the pick.

You can't be serious. The number #1 reason for INT's, unless your name is Mark Sanchez, is pressure. Eli knew Wilson had no chance one-on-one with Weatherspoon PRE-SNAP. Kudos to Asante for knowing Eli was going to get rid of it before he wanted to.

Rudyy
12-18-2012, 11:12 PM
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/29594_562468990433843_240098460_n.jpg
Just in case anybody wanted to see it more clearly..

Cloud57
12-19-2012, 12:26 AM
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/29594_562468990433843_240098460_n.jpg
Just in case anybody wanted to see it more clearly..is there a clip?

Rudyy
12-19-2012, 12:30 AM
is there a clip?Probably on NFL.com in the highlights. I don't want to search for it because that game made me mad haha.

BigBlue wins
12-19-2012, 12:58 AM
I said it in an another thread, but Wilson was just simply too high for a block on his pick up. Being too high resulted in him being flattened out. Look at Bradshaw when he blocks, he goes much lower. Ahmad blocks so low sometimes I get worried that its going to get called for a chop block. It has happened to him before though. It's technique for Wilson. You're not going to learn until you do it in a game or practice it over and over in obsession.

Eli was already releasing the ball when Wilson's blitz pickup protection broke down. Eli clearly made a throw where Samuels was ready to sniff for the ball.

Buddy333
12-19-2012, 01:01 AM
Wait. So the coaches do know what they the doing by not rushing him on the field?

YATittle1962
12-19-2012, 01:09 AM
Wilson gets blown off the block but Eli is already throwing.......ehhh....I think it was a ****ty pass. I am not an Eli basher either....

watching the coaches film right now

Eli was definitely not throwing yet when Wilson gets literally thrown into his lap.

Wilson getting blown up definitely causes the throw to be rushed

but lets give credit where it is due ...... Samuel baited and made a great play on the ball

YATittle1962
12-19-2012, 01:13 AM
Dude, you can't just talk crap like that. Wilson's pick-up had NOTHING to do with the pick.

definitely played a part in it Rosey

he had to rush his release and tried to force the ball to Nicks with Wilson getting thrown in his lap

joemorrisforprez
12-19-2012, 01:13 AM
If not for Wilson, the Giants would be 7-7 right now and praying for help.

A gutsy coordinator would have forced Witherspoon to account for Wilson as the hot read.......not force Wilson to try to stonewall a charging linebacker.

The fact is, Witherspoon is a kick *** linebacker......I don't think Bradshaw would have looked too pretty on that play, either.

Buddy333
12-19-2012, 01:15 AM
Disagree. Bradshaw has blocked Willis. He is a great blocker and wold not have gotten blown up like that.

YATittle1962
12-19-2012, 01:17 AM
If not for Wilson, the Giants would be 7-7 right now and praying for help.

A gutsy coordinator would have forced Witherspoon to account for Wilson as the hot read.......not force Wilson to try to stonewall a charging linebacker.

The fact is, Witherspoon is a kick *** linebacker......I don't think Bradshaw would have looked too pretty on that play, either.

if you watch the play you will see what looks like Wilson about to split out into a route when he notices Witherspoon rushing and attempts to pick him up

tough task for the kid

just an unfortunate turn of events really

Witherspoon was coming no matter what

joemorrisforprez
12-19-2012, 01:19 AM
Wilson's block wasn't great at all....but it was a block...Wilson had to come all the way around from a deep setback stance to get to his blitzer. At the point of engagement, Wilson is not planted, and has a backward lean on his right foot, which is why he was pushed back hard.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rwf6PGiLKnA

Next time around, I'm sure he'll get lower. But I'm not going to blame Wilson for that pick....Eli saw the blitz coming all the way, had enough time to get rid of the ball, and threw it into tight coverage.

Samuel jumped the route because he had help over the top......and it didn't help that (as usual) the routes were vertical, and side by side.....it's never good to have your receivers crowded like that on parallel routes.

Pascoe was open for a 5-7 gain on that play, btw......or, a run audible to the left would have gotten positive yards.

So....it was a good defensive alignment called, and the Giants didn't just take what the 3 deep could have given them (Pascoe underneath, or Wilson on a sweep left).

Another option would have been a quick pass to Nicks....he had close to a 10 yard cushion.

On the 2nd INT.....just a bad throw, and bad decision.......Eli forced it to Nicks while the Black Unicorn was open on the play on a quick out to his left.

YATittle1962
12-19-2012, 01:21 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rwf6PGiLKnA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rwf6PGiLKnA

watching the coaches film as we speak

this footage shows absolutely nothing

primetime
12-19-2012, 01:24 AM
Get low young fella (David Wilson) A 6'2" 244 lbs Weatherspoon had a full head of steam at contact, the laws of average would say the defender will win that battle more so then not.

BigBlue wins
12-19-2012, 01:27 AM
watching the coaches film as we speak

this footage shows absolutely nothing

Can you say why it shows nothing? I see Wilson getting trucked because of the way he attempted to block. What is the coaches film telling you?

YATittle1962
12-19-2012, 01:29 AM
Can you say why it shows nothing? I see Wilson getting trucked because of the way he attempted to block. What is the coaches film telling you?

the same

from multiple angles and a much better all 22 view

you can really see the angle he takes on the snap and it is evident that he was about to release on a route

joemorrisforprez
12-19-2012, 01:50 AM
Like I said....the proper read was Pascoe.

Wilson's first priority is to keep the blitzer off Eli until he can make the pass.....it wasn't pretty, but he actually did do his job.

That game should have featured a **** ton more running, and alot less crappy Eli decisions........it's unfortunate our OC didn't grasp that.

sharick88
12-19-2012, 02:12 AM
I was finally able to sit down and watch the game a second time. The second play of the game, David Wilson gets BLOWN UP by Sean Weatherspoon while pass blocking. He gets ejected right into Eli and Eli throws the first INT of the game.

All of you wondering why TC doesn't trust Wilson and does trust Bradshaw, just watch this play and you will understand why.

Another Eli apologist? Yawn

joemorrisforprez
12-19-2012, 02:47 AM
Another Eli apologist? Yawn

I know.....it's as if nobody watched the Saints game.

I love Eli Manning....but he absolutely sucked last weekend.....and unlike Wilson, he's not a rookie.

Wilson wasn't drafted to block....he was drafted to do the **** that won the Saints game. And frankly, the kid did what he had to do in pass protection......it's up to the coaching staff to put this kid in positions where he can be a strength, not a liability. Next time around, audible to a running play, and watch Wilson take the ball around the left edge for at least 5 yards....just roll the tape to see what I'm talking about.

I just thank God that Killdrive didn't pull a "Lumpkin Move" v. the Saints, or else the Giants would be 7-7 and no longer in control of their playoff hopes.

dakotajoe
12-19-2012, 10:02 AM
It was a bad pass and bad block.

Well said. I love Eli, but he should have made a different read or just taken the sack. Wilson gets blown up but didn't miss his assignment or whiff on the LB at least. This is probably the play that compelled to limit Wilson's playing time the rest of the way.

I hate saying but I'm starting to realize why some of the vets on the team were frustrated with Coughlin/Eli. There seems to be a double standard with Manning. When Manning was a rookie he replaced what could be a hall of fame QB in Warner and the coaching staff let him play through a HORRIBLE first season. Manning clearly wasn't ready but was allowed to start the rest of the season. Imagine if you are a vet like Tiki and get your starting QB replaced with a rookie who constantly makes mistakes. I'm a Manning fan, but I'm going to call it as I see it.

Fast forward to today and you have a rookie breaking Giants records one week and gets benched the next for simply getting blown up on his block. He didn't even miss his assignment.

Ruttiger711
12-19-2012, 10:06 AM
Well said. I love Eli, but he should have made a different read or just taken the sack. Wilson gets blown up but didn't miss his assignment or whiff on the LB at least. This is probably the play that compelled to limit Wilson's playing time the rest of the way.

I hate saying but I'm starting to realize why some of the vets on the team were frustrated with Coughlin/Eli. There seems to be a double standard with Manning. When Manning was a rookie he replaced what could be a hall of fame QB in Warner and the coaching staff let him play through a HORRIBLE first season. Manning clearly wasn't ready but was allowed to start the rest of the season. Imagine if you are a vet like Tiki and get your starting QB replaced with a rookie who constantly makes mistakes. I'm a Manning fan, but I'm going to call it as I see it.

Fast forward to today and you have a rookie breaking Giants records one week and gets benched the next for simply getting blown up on his block. He didn't even miss his assignment.

Accordig to the commentators, the read was the right one - or at least right based on what ATL showed... Samuels broke off of the read they were giving Eli and gambled for the pick. The Falcons baited the option routes from the get go, they did their homework and the Giants never adjusted.

Looks at the Nicks int, it wasnt a bad throw by any means but his break was anticipated because it was what they were giving him and again they went for the gamble and won.

dakotajoe
12-19-2012, 10:11 AM
The second INT on a pass intended for Nicks was a good throw but Nicks didn't have much separation whatsoever and the CB made a great play. Can't expect the Nicks/Manning chemistry to be great when he can't practice.

TheAnalyst
12-19-2012, 10:37 AM
Ok, bad pass block, thats why it was a bad draft pick IMO (hold that for another thread), but Eli still should not of thrown that ball. He knows Samuel will sit back and jump a comeback route like that. He does it all the time. Maybe ELi needs to learn from the past instead of forgeting about it.

GameTime
12-19-2012, 10:45 AM
You can't be serious. The number #1 reason for INT's, unless your name is Mark Sanchez, is pressure. Eli knew Wilson had no chance one-on-one with Weatherspoon PRE-SNAP. Kudos to Asante for knowing Eli was going to get rid of it before he wanted to.
then why the **** did he throw in that direction if he knew...come on Bro....

Jahh
12-19-2012, 11:04 AM
He flat out jumped the route. It didn't have to do with Wilson.

Shockeystays08
12-19-2012, 11:19 AM
Eli telegraphed the throw as he does so often which helped the Db jump the route plus it was a bad throw. Did Wilson's lousy attempt at a block cause all that? That interception is on Eli with maybe honorable mention assistance for Wilson. Eli has got to stop locking into covered receivers and forcing his throws to covered guys when others are more open. What the heck is his QB coach doing during the week? He sure isn't helping with this aspect of Eli's game.

YATittle1962
12-19-2012, 12:06 PM
The second INT on a pass intended for Nicks was a good throw but Nicks didn't have much separation whatsoever and the CB made a great play. Can't expect the Nicks/Manning chemistry to be great when he can't practice.

that throw was late late late

byron
12-19-2012, 12:12 PM
that throw was late late late Those int's were strait up bad throws the first one never should have been thrown...imo its one thing to throw to a spot its another to throw into traffic/double coverage

DaKraken
12-19-2012, 01:12 PM
If that was the sole reason for the pick, he wouldn't throw picks whenever Bradshaw is in...

This

BTW, Toad that sig is brilliant

moosedrool
12-19-2012, 01:25 PM
Wilson's block wasn't great at all....but it was a block
but it was a block? You have got to be kidding. Weatherspoon's momentum is barely slowed down.


If that was the sole reason for the pick, he wouldn't throw picks whenever Bradshaw is in...
Can I enter this post into the moronic post of the year contest?

Morehead State
12-19-2012, 02:10 PM
but it was a block? You have got to be kidding. Weatherspoon's momentum is barely slowed down.


Can I enter this post into the moronic post of the year contest?
So I assume we can add your name to the "Its never Eli's fault" club?

moosedrool
12-19-2012, 02:32 PM
So I assume we can add your name to the "Its never Eli's fault" club?

When did I ever say it's never Eli's fault? Please don't put words in my mouth.

appodictic
12-19-2012, 02:44 PM
I was finally able to sit down and watch the game a second time. The second play of the game, David Wilson gets BLOWN UP by Sean Weatherspoon while pass blocking. He gets ejected right into Eli and Eli throws the first INT of the game.

All of you wondering why TC doesn't trust Wilson and does trust Bradshaw, just watch this play and you will understand why.

More then learning pass blocking... Bradshaw put on serious muscle to be a pass blocker. He just did not only "Get better at it" bradshaw came into the leauge at 198 and he is like 215 now.

Morehead State
12-19-2012, 02:47 PM
When did I ever say it's never Eli's fault? Please don't put words in my mouth.
Well when you take a play where Eli threw a ball directly into the hands of an opponent and then try to blame the blitz pickup as somehow responsible...I would say its a reasonable conclusion.

YATittle1962
12-19-2012, 02:51 PM
Well when you take a play where Eli threw a ball directly into the hands of an opponent and then try to blame the blitz pickup as somehow responsible...I would say its a reasonable conclusion.

the rush clearly hurried the throw and Samuel made a great play .....thats it

it's football....it happens every sunday

Morehead State
12-19-2012, 02:54 PM
the rush clearly hurried the throw and Samuel made a great play .....thats it

it's football....it happens every sunday
I'm sorry Y.A. but my biggest knock on Eli over the years is exactly what you mentioned. He far too often lets the pass rush hurry his throws which is a very dangerous bad habit.
And this has been going on since he's been here. It demonstrates a tendency to panic in the pocket, which is EXACTLY what JR was referring to when he called him "skittish".

YATittle1962
12-19-2012, 02:59 PM
I'm sorry Y.A. but my biggest knock on Eli over the years is exactly what you mentioned. He far too often lets the pass rush hurry his throws which is a very dangerous bad habit.
And this has been going on since he's been here. It demonstrates a tendency to panic in the pocket, which is EXACTLY what JR was referring to when he called him "skittish".

I don't disagree

but there was a window there and he took a shot....can't hate on him for that

Samuel was just being Samuel and playing possum and made a great play

he has had Elis number forever

Morehead State
12-19-2012, 03:02 PM
I don't disagree

but there was a window there and he took a shot....can't hate on him for that

Samuel was just being Samuel and playing possum and made a great play

he has had Elis number forever

I'm talking about in general. And it comes and goes. The more confidence he has, the calmer in the pocket he is and the less he does this kind of thing. But when things start to go south, his confidence is shaken and he starts making these panicked throws into coverage.
This is why I think he's so inconsistent. His phsychy is so fragile. In this one regard, he's a lot like Kerry Collins.

Roosevelt
12-19-2012, 03:06 PM
You can't be serious. The number #1 reason for INT's, unless your name is Mark Sanchez, is pressure. Eli knew Wilson had no chance one-on-one with Weatherspoon PRE-SNAP. Kudos to Asante for knowing Eli was going to get rid of it before he wanted to.

Eli may have thrown it sooner because of the pressure but that's not what you intimated. You said Wilson got "ejected right into Eli and Eli throws the first INT of the game."

Here a pic of the point in which Eli sets up to throw. His weight has been shifted to his back foot as he begins his throwing motion.

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/9061/eli1stpick.jpg



This proves Eli had clearly decided to throw that ball prior to Wilson getting bowled over.

As for Asante, you think he picked it because he knew Eli had to throw it early?

I think he just reacted to Eli.

Ruttiger711
12-19-2012, 03:07 PM
I don't disagreebut there was a window there and he took a shot....can't hate on him for that Samuel was just being Samuel and playing possum and made a great play he has had Elis number foreverEli was baited the whole game - incorporating a simple pump fake I think could have made all the difference in that game.

Roosevelt
12-19-2012, 03:08 PM
definitely played a part in it Rosey

he had to rush his release and tried to force the ball to Nicks with Wilson getting thrown in his lap

Yes I can see that it may have cause him to rush his throw a bit YA, but I wouldn't blame Wilson for causing that pick.

Morehead State
12-19-2012, 03:50 PM
Yes I can see that it may have cause him to rush his throw a bit YA, but I wouldn't blame Wilson for causing that pick.
Veteran QB's can't rush throws in the middle of the field because this exact thing is what happens.

moosedrool
12-19-2012, 04:34 PM
Yes I can see that it may have cause him to rush his throw a bit YA, but I wouldn't blame Wilson for causing that pick.

Watch any INT. The majority of them happen when a QB is pressured. I'm not sure why you are even debating this.

I'll say it again since you didn't read it or didn't get it the first time. Eli knew PRE-SNAP Wilson had no chance against the LB and is the reason why he unloaded it early.

The main point of this post is to highlight why Wilson didn't play more early in the year. Any why Lumpkin is now playing passing downs.

Morehead State
12-19-2012, 04:38 PM
Watch any INT. The majority of them happen when a QB is pressured. I'm not sure why you are even debating this.

And I'll say it again since you didn't read it or didn't get it the first time. Eli knew PRE-SNAP Wilson had no chance against the LB and is the reason why he unloaded it early.
I don't accept that description at all of the play..But even if I did, you seem to be suggesting that that the only option amid a pass rush threat is to throw the ball early. There is very little good that can come from throwing the ball early. Its a very dangerous practice, especially in the middle of the field.
A experienced QB has to either move laterally, throw the ball away or as a last resort, take the sack.
Throwing a ball to a WR before he's ready is a recipe for disaster.

moosedrool
12-19-2012, 04:41 PM
A experienced QB has to either move laterally, throw the ball away or as a last resort, take the sack.
Throwing a ball to a WR before he's ready is a recipe for disaster.

I'm sure your QB advice will be the magic pill for a two time super bowl MVP.

Morehead State
12-19-2012, 04:45 PM
I'm sure your QB advice will be the magic pill for a two time super bowl MVP.
Yes of course...the old "who are you to criticize our SB QB" The knee jerk answer of a poster without a pertinent response.

Thanks for being boring and predictable.

moosedrool
12-19-2012, 05:00 PM
Yes of course...the old "who are you to criticize our SB QB" The knee jerk answer of a poster without a pertinent response.

Thanks for being boring and predictable.

I just find it hilarious someone who probably never played the position or even played the game knows more about playing the position than a two time super bowl mvp. Call it what you will, I call it hilarious.

Marvelousmik
12-19-2012, 05:11 PM
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/29594_562468990433843_240098460_n.jpg
Just in case anybody wanted to see it more clearly..

he missed pascoe wide open across the middle

Moke
12-19-2012, 05:12 PM
he missed pascoe wide open across the middle

Had pressure on that side, and it looked like a huge pileup in the middle in front of him. Maybe he didn't see Pascoe over that pileup?

Marvelousmik
12-19-2012, 05:14 PM
Eli may have thrown it sooner because of the pressure but that's not what you intimated. You said Wilson got "ejected right into Eli and Eli throws the first INT of the game."

Here a pic of the point in which Eli sets up to throw. His weight has been shifted to his back foot as he begins his throwing motion.

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/9061/eli1stpick.jpg



This proves Eli had clearly decided to throw that ball prior to Wilson getting bowled over.

As for Asante, you think he picked it because he knew Eli had to throw it early?

I think he just reacted to Eli.

nvm. by looking at it from this point in time its clear that the falcon defender (#52) left pascoe because he saw eli getting ready to throw the ball to nicks.

moosedrool
12-19-2012, 05:15 PM
he missed pascoe wide open across the middle

There is no throwing lane to hit Pascoe there. Pass probably gets tipped or rejected on that short a pass.

TheEnigma
12-19-2012, 05:15 PM
Wilson's attempt (hey, at least he's showing he wants to pass block) to make a block on Weatherspoon was pitiful to say the least. I don't even remember the last time a RB got laid out that bad.

Eli didn't exactly make the best decision with the ball and in hindsight, testing Asante Samuel on the first pass of the game and deep in your own territory isn't a fabulous idea.

It was a bad play by both of them. Good play by Samuel. Let's move on lol.

Moke
12-19-2012, 05:17 PM
There is no throwing lane to hit Pascoe there. Pass probably gets tipped or rejected on that short a pass.

This. Thanks for pointing that out as well. It's hard to analyze a clear picture without realizing before and after the play. Things happen quickly in football.

byron
12-19-2012, 05:21 PM
he missed pascoe wide open across the middle Idk its like he never looked around just unloaded it.... he could of moved up or to his left and brought some time ?

Marvelousmik
12-19-2012, 05:23 PM
I don't disagree

but there was a window there and he took a shot....can't hate on him for that

Samuel was just being Samuel and playing possum and made a great play

he has had Elis number forever

if anything id say the pressure could have forced him into a bad decision, but from the looks of it when i watch it over on the highlight reel, it seems like eli planned on throwing that ball no matter what. Samuel was in such a good position that no matter how eli threw the pass, it should have been picked off even if there was no pressure. If anything blame the scheme for that one. It seemed like the falcons were ready for that play. even if the throw wasnt rushed it would have most likely been intercepted. it was bad decision.

joemorrisforprez
12-19-2012, 05:54 PM
There is no throwing lane to hit Pascoe there. Pass probably gets tipped or rejected on that short a pass.

He could have dropped it in there.

joemorrisforprez
12-19-2012, 05:57 PM
Accordig to the commentators, the read was the right one - or at least right based on what ATL showed... Samuels broke off of the read they were giving Eli and gambled for the pick. The Falcons baited the option routes from the get go, they did their homework and the Giants never adjusted.

Looks at the Nicks int, it wasnt a bad throw by any means but his break was anticipated because it was what they were giving him and again they went for the gamble and won.

This is a familiar tale with Gilbride.....that's why Eli had so many comeback victories last year.....because he needed to be free of Gilbride's stale gameplan in order to regain a feel for the game.

joemorrisforprez
12-19-2012, 05:59 PM
Fast forward to today and you have a rookie breaking Giants records one week and gets benched the next for simply getting blown up on his block. He didn't even miss his assignment.

It's a huge reason the Giants lost.

I blame Eli first, and Gilbride second. A bad QB performance, and a coordinator who pushed all the wrong buttons.

Roosevelt
12-19-2012, 06:20 PM
Watch any INT. The majority of them happen when a QB is pressured. I'm not sure why you are even debating this.

I'll say it again since you didn't read it or didn't get it the first time. Eli knew PRE-SNAP Wilson had no chance against the LB and is the reason why he unloaded it early.

The main point of this post is to highlight why Wilson didn't play more early in the year. Any why Lumpkin is now playing passing downs.

Obviously pressure on a QB can lead to him making a bad pass. But at the same time, sometimes they avoid the pressure and end up making a great throw off of the broken play. We all remember the Tyree pass in SBXLII. All QB's get pressured during the game. How they handle it is a key to their success.

I simply disagreed with your claim that Wilson was pushed back into Eli which is what caused him to make a bad throw. And now that you state that Eli knew 'pre-snap' I would question if his receivers knew it as well?

Lastly, I wouldn't base Wilson's blocking solely off of that play. You can usually roll the tape and find someone getting beat or making a bad play on every snap. How about when their (DT #71 I think) beat Pacoe and Deihl to either sack Eli or pressure him?

**** happens.

Morehead State
12-19-2012, 06:26 PM
I just find it hilarious someone who probably never played the position or even played the game knows more about playing the position than a two time super bowl mvp. Call it what you will, I call it hilarious.
So its your view that the #1 option for a QB under pressure, is to throw the ball early instead of buying time, throwing it away or taking a sack?

Is this correct? And if you choose to respond (which I doubt) please make your comments related to the actual game of football, played on the field, instead of another meaningless quip.

joemorrisforprez
12-19-2012, 06:30 PM
I just think the coaching staff has a serious bug up its *** when it comes to rookie RBs.

But taken as a whole, Wilson's shaky block on that blitz is pretty damn far down the totem pole when I think of all the sloppy plays and bad decisions in that 34-0 loss.

People make it sound like this was some well-oiled machine that Wilson ****ed up because of a poorly-planted block.....what a ****ing joke.

moosedrool
12-19-2012, 06:59 PM
So its your view that the #1 option for a QB under pressure, is to throw the ball early instead of buying time, throwing it away or taking a sack?

Is this correct? And if you choose to respond (which I doubt) please make your comments related to the actual game of football, played on the field, instead of another meaningless quip.

Why do people keep putting words in my mouth. I've never been behind center in the NFL so I'm not going to give advice to Eli like you are. The point of this thread was to highlight why Wilson did not get much playing time early this year. If you can't pass block, bad things happen. As it did on that play.

Morehead State
12-19-2012, 07:31 PM
Why do people keep putting words in my mouth. I've never been behind center in the NFL so I'm not going to give advice to Eli like you are. The point of this thread was to highlight why Wilson did not get much playing time early this year. If you can't pass block, bad things happen. As it did on that play.
I'm not giving advice to anyone. I doubt our QB comes on the MB's.
I'm talking about football on a football MB.
How is this not obvious?

moosedrool
12-19-2012, 09:03 PM
I'm not giving advice to anyone. I doubt our QB comes on the MB's.
I'm talking about football on a football MB.
How is this not obvious?

You said this "A experienced QB has to either move laterally, throw the ball away or as a last resort, take the sack. "

Really, only three options?

Morehead State
12-19-2012, 10:15 PM
You said this "A experienced QB has to either move laterally, throw the ball away or as a last resort, take the sack. "

Really, only three options?
Well any of those three is better than throwing to a WR who isn't ready for the ball.

byron
12-19-2012, 10:36 PM
Well any of those three is better than throwing to a WR who isn't ready for the ball. he coud run ! oh wait !

Roosevelt
12-20-2012, 12:04 AM
he coud run ! oh wait !

And then slide? :rolleyes:

nygfan90
12-20-2012, 12:46 AM
And then slide? :rolleyes::(noooooooooooooooooooooo!!