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View Full Version : If we took 1986 Phil Simms and put him under center today...



Toadofsteel
12-19-2012, 06:59 PM
What would our record be, would be be a playoff team, and if so how far would we progress?

Let's say for the sake of argument that Simms had an offseason or two to fully grasp our offense.



I'm going to go ahead and put morehead down for 16-0 right now...

Sarcasman
12-19-2012, 07:01 PM
I don't know.....he's kinda old to be playing QB now isn't he?

BuffyBlueII
12-19-2012, 07:02 PM
Phil Simms would have blown up on our OC.

TheEnigma
12-19-2012, 07:03 PM
Probably atrocious since the idea of Phil Sims and an offense based on Option Route Palooza is a recipe for failure. I'd say 4-12 or 5-11.

brad
12-19-2012, 07:07 PM
Hard to say, two very different systems. Statistically I think he would have better numbers with a pass first offense and better receivers... but I doubt it would be any better than Eli, probably pretty close to the same.

Morehead State
12-19-2012, 07:08 PM
What would our record be, would be be a playoff team, and if so how far would we progress?

Let's say for the sake of argument that Simms had an offseason or two to fully grasp our offense.



I'm going to go ahead and put morehead down for 16-0 right now...

You're a big fat troublemaker.

Rudyy
12-19-2012, 07:12 PM
Our record would probably still be the same.

Harooni
12-19-2012, 07:16 PM
He would have been great he would be completing 17 out of 20 passes that were accurate. I think we would already have 10 wins. but of course this is all speculation. Would sure love to see him out there with these pass friendly rules today.

GameTime
12-19-2012, 07:19 PM
Phil was avery good QB.....he would have adapted and played well. He also would get mauled by the modern pass rush

Harooni
12-19-2012, 07:25 PM
Phil was avery good QB.....he would have adapted and played well. He also would get mauled by the modern pass rush
Nah he took shots in the 80's and stood tall in the pocket and you could tee off on a QB then. Eli turns his body and panic throws right to defenders and double coverage just to avoid being touched.

ozzie0075
12-19-2012, 08:08 PM
No way does anything close to what Eli did last season. People seem to forget that Eli was the reason the Giants won many game they had no business winning last year.

ALLnygIN
12-19-2012, 08:37 PM
I think simms would thrive in this sort of offense.. With Nicks and Cruz and is accuracy he'd do really really effin well. That being said I'd still take Eli any day of the week. he's struggled this season, but when hes on he's amazing.

DarkSaint
12-19-2012, 08:59 PM
Simms would have done way worse behind this oline, lack of a running game and a system that is confusing and has gotten stale like the two ancient fossils running our team. Wonder if coughlin and co. will make an appearance in The Expendables 3. We would be 4-12 at best.

Toadofsteel
12-19-2012, 09:03 PM
You're a big fat troublemaker.

AM NOT!!!

Oh wait... hang on a sec... I'm big, I'm fat, and I'm a troublemaker. So yeah, actually that is pretty accurate...

And for the record, I'd say about 10-6 this season... albeit he would be much more vocal vs Killdrive than Eli is and as such the offense would be adjusted more to what he can do specifically... If he had to make the current system work as-is, more like 7-9.

BuffyBlueII
12-19-2012, 09:05 PM
Wow. Now folks are questioning Eli's toughness and the way he turns hia body.

nhpgiantsfan
12-19-2012, 10:10 PM
I wonder what Eli would do with the 1990 offensive line.

dbreiden83080
12-19-2012, 10:36 PM
He'd be replaced by David Carr..

Roosevelt
12-19-2012, 10:58 PM
Wow. Now folks are questioning Eli's toughness and the way he turns hia body.

Now?

Giants fans have had a problem with the 'chuck and duck' from day one. Where have you been?

Roosevelt
12-19-2012, 10:59 PM
He'd be replaced by David Carr..

Sweet.

Roosevelt
12-19-2012, 11:02 PM
I would say we'd have probably two more wins right now.

And of course Eli would be holding the clip board for Phil every Sunday. :D

ashleymarie
12-19-2012, 11:43 PM
Simms would have done way worse behind this oline, lack of a running game and a system that is confusing and has gotten stale like the two ancient fossils running our team. Wonder if coughlin and co. will make an appearance in The Expendables 3. We would be 4-12 at best.

LOL. Hand Eli his walking papers. Put Simms in a wheelchair and push him up the tunnel. :)

joemorrisforprez
12-20-2012, 12:11 AM
It depends who he has as his offensive line.

The Surburbanites were a great offensive line.

But Phil was a ****ing statue out there.......he made Eli Manning look like RG3.

DarkSaint
12-20-2012, 12:33 AM
Now?

Giants fans have had a problem with the 'chuck and duck' from day one. Where have you been? Very nice, did you forget the NFCCG last year? Or did you miss that pass to Manningham in the superbowl? You see chuck and duck, i see a qb who is best at knowing where the pressure is coming from, standing as long as he can, completes the play and takes a hit in a best possible position to prevent injury. Even Aikman commented on Eli's ability to avoid the rush, and mentioned eli having eyes on the back of his helmet. I have to question the loyalty of a Giants fans if he calls this "Chuck and Duck". It's like going out of your way to belittle Eli.

BlueBlooded1979
12-20-2012, 12:49 AM
With DD on the team Phil would be on IR already. He couldn't slide in the pocket like Eli does and what did Phil every do without a running game of top 5 defense.

After hearing Phil speak on CBS I don't know if he could digest this offense. A lot of players have said it is very complex and strenuous on the QB and WR. Parcells never ran offensive plays this complex.

ashleymarie
12-20-2012, 02:04 AM
Eli can put pep in his step. I can't say much about Phil. We saw few of his games. Those were the 80s. those were the days of black outs here. Since we only got to see the Giants when they played the boys. And we usually drove to Waco, Tx to see those games in a motel room. Many of us go to extremes to see our beloved team play. Last year the team, with Eli, went to the extremes for us.

ELI_HOF_NYG
12-20-2012, 02:11 AM
What would our record be, would be be a playoff team, and if so how far would we progress?

Let's say for the sake of argument that Simms had an offseason or two to fully grasp our offense.




I'm going to go ahead and put morehead down for 16-0 right now...

no difference,,maybe worse. was simms all that great anyway? HOS stepped in and we never lost a step,,can we say the same about carr?

giantsfan420
12-20-2012, 02:19 AM
does he get to bring his D and run game with him? otherwise, i think his concrete feet in the pocket would have lead to big hits and prob injuries just as it did back then. honestly, and i know im gonna be accused of being biased, but Simms thrived on passing to his TE, in KGs offense, I could see Simms struggle. That doesnt mean I think he'd do nothing well, its just that seam pass to the TE was Simms best throw imho, and KG doesnt incorporate that nearly enough for Simms to be able to make that a staple of his offensive success. I'd say he'd prob be around a .500 QB with a couple postseason appearances, who knows from there...

ELI_HOF_NYG
12-20-2012, 02:21 AM
does he get to bring his D and run game with him? otherwise, i think his concrete feet in the pocket would have lead to big hits and prob injuries just as it did back then. honestly, and i know im gonna be accused of being biased, but Simms thrived on passing to his TE, in KGs offense, I could see Simms struggle. That doesnt mean I think he'd do nothing well, its just that seam pass to the TE was Simms best throw imho, and KG doesnt incorporate that nearly enough for Simms to be able to make that a staple of his offensive success. I'd say he'd prob be around a .500 QB with a couple postseason appearances, who knows from there...

don't tel simms that,,lol,,,,,good assessment though.

giantsfan420
12-20-2012, 02:22 AM
Very nice, did you forget the NFCCG last year? Or did you miss that pass to Manningham in the superbowl? You see chuck and duck, i see a qb who is best at knowing where the pressure is coming from, standing as long as he can, completes the play and takes a hit in a best possible position to prevent injury. Even Aikman commented on Eli's ability to avoid the rush, and mentioned eli having eyes on the back of his helmet. I have to question the loyalty of a Giants fans if he calls this "Chuck and Duck". It's like going out of your way to belittle Eli.get used to it lol

Rat_bastich
12-20-2012, 02:52 AM
no difference,,maybe worse. was simms all that great anyway? HOS stepped in and we never lost a step,,can we say the same about carr?

Simms was a solid player, but definitely not a gunslinger like many of the quarterbacks of today are. I think with a lack of a running game and protection Simms would probably be a Mark Sanchez clone.

In Simms days they had tailbacks that were bigger than today's fullbacks and took a pounding.

DarkSaint
12-20-2012, 03:12 AM
I think with a lack of a running game and protection Simms would probably be a Mark Sanchez clone.

. Oh No You Didn't !!! LOL

Rat_bastich
12-20-2012, 03:14 AM
Oh No You Didn't !!! LOL

Oh yeah. I'm still wondering when those sign Tebow or get Sanchez posts are going to come up.

DarkSaint
12-20-2012, 03:36 AM
Yeah, they already compared Eli to Sanchez, only a matter of time, especially now that the Daily News is reporting that the Jets are trying to trade Sanchez and explore bringing in Michael Vick. LOL

Rat_bastich
12-20-2012, 05:20 AM
Yeah, they already compared Eli to Sanchez, only a matter of time, especially now that the Daily News is reporting that the Jets are trying to trade Sanchez and explore bringing in Michael Vick. LOL

Man, if they get Vick the circus called the Jets will be crazy. The Jets can't even seem to get out of their own way.

stormblue
12-20-2012, 10:04 AM
i would like all you younger fans....or those of you who doubt.....
to watch this......with only 2 things in mind.

1) the forward pass can actually be a spiral.

2) watch the feet and legs of a guy who you say can't move in the pocket as good as Eli.
......Simms could back-pedal faster than Eli can sprint. Simms was way more mobile than
you people give him credit for.

and as an aside.....there usually isn't an H-back as a designated bodyguard....Phil didn't need one.....
so the running backs could actually go out for passes.

i think Simms would have done just fine in this current Flag Football league.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwUA5gjImQo

Ruttiger711
12-20-2012, 10:09 AM
Yeah, they already compared Eli to Sanchez, only a matter of time, especially now that the Daily News is reporting that the Jets are trying to trade Sanchez and explore bringing in Michael Vick. LOL

The Sanchize an Eagle?!

Morehead State
12-20-2012, 10:09 AM
Saying nothing about our current team situation, I will say that Phil Simms in his prime with these rules for hitting QB's and the rules in the secondary, would absolutely have video game kind of numbers.
The rules nowadays favor pure passers like Phil.

Kruunch
12-20-2012, 10:09 AM
In our current offense Simms would have been a pick machine (don't forget, he threw more INTs than TDs in 86).

In a dink and dunk offense (or possibly a fast west coast offense) Simms would have been great. Something along the lines of what New Orleans or the Pats currently run.

Morehead State
12-20-2012, 10:13 AM
In our current offense Simms would have been a pick machine (don't forget, he threw more INTs than TDs in 86).

In a dink and dunk offense (or possibly a fast west coast offense) Simms would have been great. Something along the lines of what New Orleans or the Pats currently run.
He would have thrived in any offense, including ours.
Stop being a Phil hater.

GameTime
12-20-2012, 10:28 AM
Saying nothing about our current team situation, I will say that Phil Simms in his prime with these rules for hitting QB's and the rules in the secondary, would absolutely have video game kind of numbers.
The rules nowadays favor pure passers like Phil.
rules shmules....
you watch football right? Tell me you dont see QBs getting ****ing hammered every week??? I know I do. Todays pass rushers are way more numerous and better overall then when Simms was a QB. Not saying Simms wounlt do well but he would getting pounded....

Morehead State
12-20-2012, 10:30 AM
rules shmules....
you watch football right? Tell me you dont see QBs getting ****ing hammered every week??? I know I do. Todays pass rushers are way more numerous and better overall then when Simms was a QB. Not saying Simms wounlt do well but he would getting pounded....
Why?

EliDaMANning
12-20-2012, 10:36 AM
He would have thrived in any offense, including ours.
Stop being a Phil hater.He didn't thrive in several seasons you clown.

Kruunch
12-20-2012, 10:42 AM
He would have thrived in any offense, including ours.
Stop being a Phil hater.

Are you sure you aren't Phil's mom?

Phil was a horrible long ball passer so he would have sucked in any vertical offense.

dezzzR
12-20-2012, 10:47 AM
Mark Bavaro says his Giants would "absolutely destroy" Eli Manning's Giants.

Kruunch
12-20-2012, 10:48 AM
Mark Bavaro says his Giants would "absolutely destroy" Eli Manning's Giants.

Mark Bavarro sucks at BBCode.

P.S. - Mark Bavarro's Giants would have had 3,675 yards in defensive penalties in today's NFL. Possibly some manslaughter charges.

YATittle1962
12-20-2012, 10:49 AM
I'm not sure how it would go .....but Simms would definitely not get along with Coughlin

he was a very firey out spoken guy wearing passion on his sleeve on Sundays

if you give Simms ....Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz , Domenik Hixon, and Rueben Randle I'm sure he would be a happy camper

but defenses today are quite different than they were back then

there are many more specialists .....and also advanced defensive schemes

but if you took a young Phil who had studied the offense I think he would do quite well

he was quite a bit more mobile than Eli and was a really smart player

these hypotheticals are always fun

:)

stormblue
12-20-2012, 10:51 AM
rules shmules....
you watch football right? Tell me you dont see QBs getting ****ing hammered every week??? I know I do. Todays pass rushers are way more numerous and better overall then when Simms was a QB. Not saying Simms wounlt do well but he would getting pounded....

what ?

yeah , right ....no good pass rushers back then....

Buce Smith...Reggie White ...Richard Dent...Gasineau....Chris Doleman...Ricky Jackson...Leslie O'neal...Lawrence Taylor..

actually....that's 8 of the top 10 all time and that's who Simms played against. (except LT of course)

Morehead State
12-20-2012, 10:56 AM
He didn't thrive in several seasons you clown.
Thanks for the name calling my little, small minded friend.
With the rules in today's NFL, he definitely would.

dezzzR
12-20-2012, 10:59 AM
Mark Bavarro sucks at BBCode.

P.S. - Mark Bavarro's Giants would have had 3,675 yards in defensive penalties in today's NFL. Possibly some manslaughter charges.I know youd think hed know how to use a comp.:o

dezzzR
12-20-2012, 11:00 AM
Thanks for the name calling my little, small minded freind.
With the rules in today's NFL, we definitely would. whos we, you and simms??

Morehead State
12-20-2012, 11:01 AM
what ?

yeah , right ....no good pass rushers back then....

Buce Smith...Reggie White ...Richard Dent...Gasineau....Chris Doleman...Ricky Jackson...Leslie O'neal...Lawrence Taylor..

actually....that's 8 of the top 10 all time and that's who Simms played against. (except LT of course)
And they could take two steps after you threw the ball and hit you in the head.

M00KIE
12-20-2012, 11:05 AM
This is just ignorant. Eli has already surpassed Simms in pretty much every area in a fairly short time. Also, Simms was NOT some world beater QB. He had a good run and a great SB performance but definitely had his share of ups and downs just like Eli and every other QB.

Oh and by the way, he also had one of the best defenses in NFL history. Lets not forget that nugget.

stormblue
12-20-2012, 11:06 AM
And they could take two steps after you threw the ball and hit you in the head.

well , that does explain Phil and Aikman's TV announcing...lol.

stormblue
12-20-2012, 11:11 AM
This is just ignorant. Eli has already surpassed Simms in pretty much every area in a fairly short time. Also, Simms was NOT some world beater QB. He had a good run and a great SB performance but definitely had his share of ups and downs just like Eli and every other QB.

Oh and by the way, he also had one of the best defenses in NFL history. Lets not forget that nugget.

her's a nugget.......it's the defense that stood up in the playoffs and made those 2 SB runs possible.
those 2 SB teams were 10-6 and 9-7....not juggernauts.


and this thread isn't even about Simms vs. Eli.....its about whether or not Simms could compete in today's NFL

M00KIE
12-20-2012, 11:13 AM
her's a nugget.......it's the defense that stood up and made those 2 SB runs possible.

and this thread isn't Simms vs. Eli.....its about could Simms compete in today's NFL

How is putting Simms under center on this team rather than Eli today and expecting better results not Simms vs Eli? If you want to generalize it, lets say Simms on on Raiders then. The answer, they'd still suck.

As far as last year is concerned (I'll give you '07 for sure) I'm sure Eli's 4,933yds and 29 TD's had nothing to do with our SB run... Numbers Simms never put up.

stormblue
12-20-2012, 11:19 AM
How is putting Simms under center on this team rather than Eli today and expecting better results not Simms vs Eli? If you want to generalize it, lets say Simms on on Raiders then. The answer, they'd still suck.

i never personally said he would do better or worse than anyone......
i have expressly pointed out that i think he would be very successful...others may disagree.
but if you want to compare him to Eli.....there are 1000 other threads here for that.

EliDaMANning
12-20-2012, 11:47 AM
Thanks for the name calling my little, small minded friend.
With the rules in today's NFL, he definitely would.Stop whining and complaining about the rules all the time. Only pansies like Brady, Rodgers and Peyton ask for flags when their jerseys get brushed.


We have a tough as nails QB who is indestructable. Simms would not survive playing behind DD.

stormblue
12-20-2012, 11:59 AM
Stop whining and complaining about the rules all the time. Only pansies like Brady, Rodgers and Peyton ask for flags when their jerseys get brushed.


We have a tough as nails QB who is indestructable. Simms would not survive playing behind DD.

yes he would....Simms never had a constant H-back for a bodyguard.....if all else failed , in today's game.....they would use a back in for extra protection....like they have to now......and with Simms the tight end went out in routes most of the time too.

of course i can guarantee you Simms would be all up in DD's grill about it.

Roosevelt
12-20-2012, 12:36 PM
Very nice, did you forget the NFCCG last year? Or did you miss that pass to Manningham in the superbowl? You see chuck and duck, i see a qb who is best at knowing where the pressure is coming from, standing as long as he can, completes the play and takes a hit in a best possible position to prevent injury. Even Aikman commented on Eli's ability to avoid the rush, and mentioned eli having eyes on the back of his helmet. I have to question the loyalty of a Giants fans if he calls this "Chuck and Duck". It's like going out of your way to belittle Eli.


Not appearing to be tough and actually being tough are two different things.

I was simply stating why some fans feel Eli is not tough in response to Buffy's post, so don't take my comments out of context.

Eli has nothing to prove in the toughness department. The guy is under center every snap.

GeoGoGo
12-20-2012, 12:37 PM
I wonder what Eli would do with the 1990 offensive line.

He'd be unstoppable!

BuffyBlueII
12-20-2012, 01:01 PM
And they could take two steps after you threw the ball and hit you in the head.

They still got penalized for head shots.

In the 80s all we heard from the old timers is how “soft” the rules had become as oppossed to 60 and 70s. In a decade or two from now we will hear how “soft” the rules have become since the 2000-2010s.

BuffyBlueII
12-20-2012, 01:02 PM
We have a tough as nails QB who is indestructable. Simms would not survive playing behind DD.

+1

BuffyBlueII
12-20-2012, 01:04 PM
her's a nugget.......it's the defense that stood up in the playoffs and made those 2 SB runs possible.
those 2 SB teams were 10-6 and 9-7....not juggernauts.


and this thread isn't even about Simms vs. Eli.....its about whether or not Simms could compete in today's NFL

In both those SuperBowls, Eli Manning and the offense had to bail the defense out.

BuffyBlueII
12-20-2012, 01:06 PM
Now?

Giants fans have had a problem with the 'chuck and duck' from day one. Where have you been?

The chuck and duck. Sure.

He stands in the pocket and throws the doggone ball. The fact that he is more mobile than Statue Simms is not something to hold against him.

BuffyBlueII
12-20-2012, 01:08 PM
Man, if they get Vick the circus called the Jets will be crazy. The Jets can't even seem to get out of their own way.

It would be an improvement if they signed Mike Vick but I fully expect Alex Smith to be the starting QB onNY Jets next season.

Roosevelt
12-20-2012, 01:14 PM
In both those SuperBowls, Eli Manning and the offense had to bail the defense out.

You realize we were playing Tom Brady and the Patriots yes? We gave up 14 & 17 points.

Our defense wasn't bailed out in either game.

BuffyBlueII
12-20-2012, 01:17 PM
In our current offense Simms would have been a pick machine (don't forget, he threw more INTs than TDs in 86).

In a dink and dunk offense (or possibly a fast west coast offense) Simms would have been great. Something along the lines of what New Orleans or the Pats currently run.

Thats why Bill Walsh was so hot on him and was trying to trade up to draft him.

BuffyBlueII
12-20-2012, 01:30 PM
You realize we were playing Tom Brady and the Patriots yes? We gave up 14 & 17 points.

Our defense wasn't bailed out in either game.

Our defense did give up the lead in 4th quarter of SuperBowl XLII and Eli Manning had to drive us down the field again for a TD. You do realize Eli Manning had one of The Best 4th quarters in SuperBowl history?

Eli Manning and NY Giants defense controlled TOP in SuperBowl XLVI holding the ball for almost 38 minutes and that was The Best defense on the field that day.

Kruunch
12-20-2012, 01:52 PM
Thats why Bill Walsh was so hot on him and was trying to trade up to draft him.


Have a point?

Morehead State
12-20-2012, 02:04 PM
Our defense did give up the lead in 4th quarter of SuperBowl XLII and Eli Manning had to drive us down the field again for a TD. You do realize Eli Manning had one of The Best 4th quarters in SuperBowl history?

Eli Manning and NY Giants defense controlled TOP in SuperBowl XLVI holding the ball for almost 38 minutes and that was The Best defense on the field that day.
Because our offense couldn't score points.

Roosevelt
12-20-2012, 02:05 PM
Our defense did give up the lead in 4th quarter of SuperBowl XLII and Eli Manning had to drive us down the field again for a TD. You do realize Eli Manning had one of The Best 4th quarters in SuperBowl history?

Eli Manning and NY Giants defense controlled TOP in SuperBowl XLVI holding the ball for almost 38 minutes and that was The Best defense on the field that day.

No, I've never thought about Eli's individual performance in the 4th quarter.

When you say "Eli had to drive us....." you make it sound as if these games weren't tough defensive battles.

And of course our opponent is the closest thing the NFL has had to a dynasty in a long time, by winning 3 super bowls and averaging more than 12 wins a season for over a decade. Did you really expect them to rollover for us?

Eli Manning made his name by pulling these games out in the end. That's who he is. It makes for exciting football, but it's not a reason too discount the efforts of the entire team.

In SB XXI we set an NFL record by putting up 30 points in the second half. There wasn't any need for 4th quarter heroics.

Oh yeah, here's another stat from that game. Besides Phil's record setting performance in the air, he also ran the ball for 25 yards on 3 carries. Not bad for someone with concrete feet ay?

BuffyBlueII
12-20-2012, 02:37 PM
No, I've never thought about Eli's individual performance in the 4th quarter.

When you say "Eli had to drive us....." you make it sound as if these games weren't tough defensive battles.

And of course our opponent is the closest thing the NFL has had to a dynasty in a long time, by winning 3 super bowls and averaging more than 12 wins a season for over a decade. Did you really expect them to rollover for us?

Eli Manning made his name by pulling these games out in the end. That's who he is. It makes for exciting football, but it's not a reason too discount the efforts of the entire team.

In SB XXI we set an NFL record by putting up 30 points in the second half. There wasn't any need for 4th quarter heroics.

Oh yeah, here's another stat from that game. Besides Phil's record setting performance in the air, he also ran the ball for 25 yards on 3 carries. Not bad for someone with concrete feet ay?

No it is not a reason. You are right it is a team effort. The defense did play better than they did during the regular season but they still needed a lot of help from Eli Manning and the offense. Maybe bail out is too strong of a term I will admit but I do tend to go a little overboard due to so many folks claiming “Eli do nothing. Defense is real reason we win SBs” and words to thast effect when it is just not the case.
Heck, not too long ago when Justin Tuck was publically airing his fears about Roach With Braids before we played them the 2nd time, he stated “I know Eli will have long drives and keep him on the sidelines.” That is against Roach With Braids and you mean to tell me he didn’t have more urgency for Eli Manning to keep Tommy Brady on the sidelines?

In SB XXI we were also playing Denver Broncos and the very next year, Doug Williams put up 35 poinst on them in SB XXII in a quarter. Yeah, that Doug Williams. Phil did have an incredible SB. One of The Best ever.

I never stated that Phil had concrete feet. I did call him a statue in the pocket which he was a great deal of the time. Also, I am not discounting Phil Simms SB performance but you can’t have it both ways. Eli Mannings performance was brilliant in SB XLVI. He kept Tommy Brady on the sidelines for almost 38 minutes.

GameTime
12-20-2012, 02:39 PM
Why?
you said with todays rules Simms would put up video game numbers...
I disagree. while he would be a very good QB he was not mobile and while he was ok in the pocket with movement he was not great.
He would have his hands full with all the pass rushers there are today....just like I said. he would be getting pounded most likely.

GameTime
12-20-2012, 02:42 PM
what ?

yeah , right ....no good pass rushers back then....

Buce Smith...Reggie White ...Richard Dent...Gasineau....Chris Doleman...Ricky Jackson...Leslie O'neal...Lawrence Taylor..

actually....that's 8 of the top 10 all time and that's who Simms played against. (except LT of course)
dude...did I say there were no good pass rushers back then?? No I didnt....What I DID SAY was that there are many more good to better then good pass rushers today. Its a simple fact. Today game is diff than Phil's day. I said he would be very good but he woul dget his share of getting his *** kicked....
what did I say that was so wrong????

GameTime
12-20-2012, 02:44 PM
And they could take two steps after you threw the ball and hit you in the head.
doesnt matter...Todays QBs get hit harder because the athletes in general are bigger stronger and faster.......

TroyArcher
12-20-2012, 03:18 PM
Love Phil but he never played with a paper soft Defense and weak running game. On the flip side he did not have this caliber of WR's. Giants would be 8-6.

Roosevelt
12-20-2012, 04:45 PM
Love Phil but he never played with a paper soft Defense and weak running game. On the flip side he did not have this caliber of WR's. Giants would be 8-6.


Truth is our highest offensive ranking under both Eli & Phil is the same. We have never ranked higher than 5th in a given season.

YATittle1962
12-20-2012, 04:56 PM
doesnt matter...Todays QBs get hit harder because the athletes in general are bigger stronger and faster.......

do they come bigger stronger and faster than Reggie White, Jerome Brown , Jack Youngblood, Derrick Thomas, and Bruce Smith ?

giantsfan420
12-20-2012, 05:01 PM
So hilarious how ms called someone a simms hater bc of his opinion lmao. Ms, arent u the one who complains and labels people eli homers and eli fans not giants fans bc those people called YOU an eli hater? What gives why the double standard?

Hooligans
12-20-2012, 05:05 PM
What would our record be, would be be a playoff team, and if so how far would we progress?

Let's say for the sake of argument that Simms had an offseason or two to fully grasp our offense.



I'm going to go ahead and put morehead down for 16-0 right now...

If Phil Simms were the current Giant QB, the Giants would have already secured the NFC East, and would be vying for home field advantage throughout the playoffs. Simms was stronger, a better passer and a better overall QB than Eli by a lot.

GameTime
12-20-2012, 05:06 PM
do they come bigger stronger and faster than Reggie White, Jerome Brown , Jack Youngblood, Derrick Thomas, and Bruce Smith ?
overall....there are bigger fast stronger athletes all over the NFL........I used the word "overall" as a general statement. I am not comparing individuals.
I am in my late 40s...I know alll the old players from Simms' era and I appreciate them...

giantsfan420
12-20-2012, 05:08 PM
do they come bigger stronger and faster than Reggie White, Jerome Brown , Jack Youngblood, Derrick Thomas, and Bruce Smith ?i would say that the best pass rushers all time primarily came from simms era, but in todays game u have a ton of capable pass rushers....i guess im trying to say while simms era produced the goats, todays level of play, while not producing the goats, is full of competent pass rushers. Plus, with todays schemes, the increase of athleticism and ability has made it so every teams has guys who excel in rushing the passer.

giantsfan420
12-20-2012, 05:10 PM
The pass rushing goata from simms era set the bar. While only a select few from todays era can meet and even exceed that bar, u got defensive players all over the league playing at a level right beneath all time greats. Id say theres a ton more "very good"spectrum pass rushers in this era

TheEnigma
12-20-2012, 05:14 PM
You have to take into account the athleticism of the current generation of offensive tackles compared to the old days. More of them have increased agility, quicker feet, and mobility to be able to handle pass rushers better. You could argue that some of the old generation pass rushers wouldn't of put up such fantastic stats against today's brand of offensive tackle.

Morehead State
12-20-2012, 05:16 PM
Love Phil but he never played with a paper soft Defense and weak running game. On the flip side he did not have this caliber of WR's. Giants would be 8-6.
He didn't?
Check 1984 when he had no running game, no WR's and no O line.
And threw for 4000 yards.

GentleGiant
12-20-2012, 06:16 PM
Nah he took shots in the 80's and stood tall in the pocket and you could tee off on a QB then. Eli turns his body and panic throws right to defenders and double coverage just to avoid being touched.

Did you SEE THE NFC CHAMPIONSHIP? Simms had more INT than TDS in 86 so I don't know where you're getting that.

jcp
12-20-2012, 06:34 PM
I like both qb's but I think Simms with today's rules would have put up big numbers. Don't give me the statue crap, last time I looked Brady, Marino, Fouts, etc were or are all statues and they were all great. As for the pass rushers of today vs. Simms era, that is just a joke...today's pash rushers not even close, nor are they close to the quality of the 70's D lines...Pitt, Dallas, Minn, Oak, Rams etc.