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Atomic1
12-21-2012, 07:53 AM
IMO the loss of Tollefson to FA has been one of the biggest reasons for the lack of a Pass Rush this season. Yea he only had 5 sacks, 13 tackles 8 assists a forced fumble and 1 defended pass last season but many of these plays were clutch as he would play inside and outside giving every player on the DL a breather . He had quickness rushing the passer and was ALWAYS around the ball as the stats show . How many times did he force the QB to throw it away ? Sometimes you can't measure how much a good back-up player means to the system .
This season the DL doesn't get those fresh legs and non-stop motor coming off the bench and his loss is the difference in what we see from 2012 to the present .

Redeyejedi
12-21-2012, 08:09 AM
David Tollefson was 1 off the lowest pressure per snap guys in the NFL in 2011. He was still twice as good as Tuck by the numbers which is scary

Toadofsteel
12-21-2012, 08:17 AM
What I don't get is why do we have 5 DEs now (6 if you count Kiwi), yet refuse to use two of them at all? Not even for rotational snaps? The reps would be invaluable to their development, and Tuck Osi and JPP could get some much needed breathers...

Redeyejedi
12-21-2012, 08:23 AM
What I don't get is why do we have 5 DEs now (6 if you count Kiwi), yet refuse to use two of them at all? Not even for rotational snaps? The reps would be invaluable to their development, and Tuck Osi and JPP could get some much needed breathers...My guess is they arent very good.

GameTime
12-21-2012, 08:29 AM
IMO the loss of Tollefson to FA has been one of the biggest reasons for the lack of a Pass Rush this season. Yea he only had 5 sacks, 13 tackles 8 assists a forced fumble and 1 defended pass last season but many of these plays were clutch as he would play inside and outside giving every player on the DL a breather . He had quickness rushing the passer and was ALWAYS around the ball as the stats show . How many times did he force the QB to throw it away ? Sometimes you can't measure how much a good back-up player means to the system .
This season the DL doesn't get those fresh legs and non-stop motor coming off the bench and his loss is the difference in what we see from 2012 to the present .
I liked Tolly...but him being here is not the reason these guys have almost 0 fire.......There is more then enough talent to get the job done they are playing like they are tired and just want it to be over....

Atomic1
12-21-2012, 08:55 AM
Perfect example looks to be this week where Tuck might not play and last season Tolley would step in and get-r-done.

BlueJayC
12-21-2012, 09:00 AM
Pressure shouldn't necessarily be generated strictly by your down 4......it's easy to pick up 4 guys for offenses in max protect. Take a look at the clips and game films from late last year.....Fewell started bringing pressure and at least one extra guy at teams down the stretch hence the increased pressures, sack and turnovers......not sure why it's so GD obvious to everyone but him. Save me the secondary injury excuse too and look what Spags did with a more injury depleted aging secondary in '07.......brought pressure to mask the back end losses.

Live and die by the blitz.......now they're not even trying.

JB456
12-21-2012, 09:02 AM
My guess is they arent very good.

How much worse can they get than Osi and Tuck have been? Wouldn't you rather see Ojomo get some reps and see what he has than watching Osi rush 10 yards past the QB and the Ravens running for 110 yards on his side? I know I would....

GameTime
12-21-2012, 09:04 AM
How much worse can they get than Osi and Tuck have been? Wouldn't you rather see Ojomo get some reps and see what he has than the Ravens running for 110 yards to Osi's side? I know I would....
Dont blame Osi alone for the poor run D. Opposing RBs are running left, right, and up the middle. They all have been sucking

JB456
12-21-2012, 09:09 AM
Dont blame Osi alone for the poor run D. Opposing RBs are running left, right, and up the middle. They all have been sucking

Dude, do me a favor and rewatch the Redskins game. I think Osi is still applying bandages to his arse. The Redskins game plan was when in doubt, run to Osi's side and rip off a 40 yard run.

Edit: I will definately give you that the whole run defense has been terrible but if you don't think Osi is being specifically targeted, I don't even know what to say....

GameTime
12-21-2012, 09:10 AM
Dude, do me a favor and rewatch the Redskins game. I think Osi is still applying bandages to his arse. The Redskins game plan was when in doubt, run to Osi's side and rip off a 40 yard run.
I said they all suck and merely stataed that Osi is not alone when talking about how ****ty the Giants run D is....
not dogging you Bro.....

hadenough
12-21-2012, 09:13 AM
Pressure shouldn't necessarily be generated strictly by your down 4......it's easy to pick up 4 guys for offenses in max protect. Take a look at the clips and game films from late last year.....Fewell started bringing pressure and at least one extra guy at teams down the stretch hence the increased pressures, sack and turnovers......not sure why it's so GD obvious to everyone but him. Save me the secondary injury excuse too and look what Spags did with a more injury depleted aging secondary in '07.......brought pressure to mask the back end losses.

Live and die by the blitz.......now they're not even trying.

Exactly...

Fewell = Scared

Scared = Booty Defense

Booty Defense = 2012 Giants

JB456
12-21-2012, 09:16 AM
I said they all suck and merely stataed that Osi is not alone when talking about how ****ty the Giants run D is....
not dogging you Bro.....

No hard feelings. I was actually on Osi's band wagon all last season and up until the first few games of this season than I just couldn't reconcile my homer attitude for him to what I was actually watching. It begame blatently obvious that he was trying to pad his stats going for sacks at the expense of his already suspect run defense.

IMO, there needs to be some serious changes to the Dline next year and Osi will be shown the door.

stormblue
12-21-2012, 09:19 AM
Exactly...

Fewell = Scared

Scared = Booty Defense

Booty Defense = 2012 Giants


no doubt.....it's like they are being raped over and over ......
but instead of whipping out the pepper spray and kicking and screaming ....
they just lay down and settle for the morning after pill.

JB456
12-21-2012, 09:20 AM
No hard feelings. I was actually on Osi's band wagon all last season and up until the first few games of this season than I just couldn't reconcile my homer attitude for him to what I was actually watching. It begame blatently obvious that he was trying to pad his stats going for sacks at the expense of his already suspect run defense.

IMO, there needs to be some serious changes to the Dline next year and Osi will be shown the door.

And don't even get me started with Tuck purchasing Knee pads for RGIII. If I was the coach, I would have benched him for at least a half for that bs and sent a message to the team.

GameTime
12-21-2012, 09:25 AM
No hard feelings. I was actually on Osi's band wagon all last season and up until the first few games of this season than I just couldn't reconcile my homer attitude for him to what I was actually watching. It begame blatently obvious that he was trying to pad his stats going for sacks at the expense of his already suspect run defense.

IMO, there needs to be some serious changes to the Dline next year and Osi will be shown the door.

yep...I agree. Even JPP in the Skins game was over persuing and sealing the edge at all. They have piss poor discipline.....

JB456
12-21-2012, 09:33 AM
yep...I agree. Even JPP in the Skins game was over persuing and sealing the edge at all. They have piss poor discipline.....

There was an article a while back that mentioned that JPP wasn't having as much fun as he was last season and then boom, his play fell off dramatically. I honestly believe that a lot of the fire that these players had last year is gone. They won the Superbowl and they just don't seem as hungry as they were. I really hope I am wrong but I don't think I am.

No matter what though, I will be watching till the clock strikes zero of the last game they play cause thats what I do.

JesseJames
12-21-2012, 10:55 AM
Osi isn't effective any more and Tucks seems to me to be tired and has seemingly given up and if we can't find a DE on the roster or the practice squad who can be more effective and play with more enthusiasm the we're in deep stuff...TC might want to consider replacing Tuck with Kiwi and putting Rivers at SSLB.

Rusty192
12-21-2012, 11:07 AM
There was an article a while back that mentioned that JPP wasn't having as much fun as he was last season and then boom, his play fell off dramatically. I honestly believe that a lot of the fire that these players had last year is gone. They won the Superbowl and they just don't seem as hungry as they were. I really hope I am wrong but I don't think I am.

No matter what though, I will be watching till the clock strikes zero of the last game they play cause thats what I do.It seems to me that after guys win a SB, it's like they need a few seasons for that fire to come back and the hunger to win another championship. I hope I'm wrong about that this year though.

Maybe they still have some of it left in them. It starts Sunday!

GameTime
12-21-2012, 11:09 AM
There was an article a while back that mentioned that JPP wasn't having as much fun as he was last season and then boom, his play fell off dramatically. I honestly believe that a lot of the fire that these players had last year is gone. They won the Superbowl and they just don't seem as hungry as they were. I really hope I am wrong but I don't think I am.

No matter what though, I will be watching till the clock strikes zero of the last game they play cause thats what I do.
I agree...the coaching has no sense of urgency either......dont get it....

OX1
12-21-2012, 02:09 PM
How much worse can they get than Osi and Tuck have been? Wouldn't you rather see Ojomo get some reps and see what he has than watching Osi rush 10 yards past the QB and the Ravens running for 110 yards on his side? I know I would....

Especially in games where they were gassed already. Bring in
some fresh (even if mediocre) players for a couple downs and at least let
your supposed starts rest a bit.

brad
12-21-2012, 02:22 PM
The common them seems to be that the players have no fire and aren't having "fun" anymore. It makes me wonder if they aren't buying into the system, which is more of a "read and react" rather than an attacking style of defense that the defensive players are designed for. The changes late last year had a huge impact on the way they played, and the results of that were dramatic. Why the change back to the less aggressive style of defense?

Rusty192
12-21-2012, 03:11 PM
The common them seems to be that the players have no fire and aren't having "fun" anymore. It makes me wonder if they aren't buying into the system, which is more of a "read and react" rather than an attacking style of defense that the defensive players are designed for. The changes late last year had a huge impact on the way they played, and the results of that were dramatic. Why the change back to the less aggressive style of defense?I wish our defense could be more like the 49ers. They give up yardage at times but they are extremely aggressive and attack teams instead of waiting for you to screw up. They surrender hardly any points and can actually protect a lead. Our defense? Forget it...