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View Full Version : Where are the killdrive lovers now ?



sheepdip
12-21-2012, 11:39 AM
I guess it is quite obvious that our offense is rather pedestrian at most. Last year we had the benefit of 5 yard plays going for 60 yard TDs. (just like Killdrive drew it up ahaha) well this year we aren't getting super human plays from Nicks and Cruz and others. So Killdrive would have to use his 40 + years of coaching knowledge to come up with a fix ?? still waiting. Geeez the Browns offense is more efficient and explosive then our offense ?.

So for all those who were always supporting his case and reminding us of our offense being ranked top 4 in yards or whatever ? where are you now.

Bad offensive showings (look at the teams)

Atlanta - 0 (nothing more to say)
Redskins - 16 points (biggest game of the year at that point) Redzone disaster !
Bengals - 13 points
Steelers - 13 points (7 by the defense and they set up offense to score a few times) disastrous offensive showing and should have easily won this if offense could score.
Cowboys - 22 points scored from Offense 7 by our defense not to mention we gave the offense the ball 6 extra times. Poor redzone and offensive showing and really a game we should have lost.
Skins game - 27 points - 7 in last couple of secs.
Eagles 17 points (ignored running game)

Giants offense explosion (look at the teams!)

Bucs 41 (terrible pass defense, 1 of the worst)
Saints 52 (terrible defense worst in the league)
GB 38 (without a lot of key defenders also no pass rush to worry about)
Browns 41 (Browns are a lot more sound now, they were without Hayden and his backup)
panthers 36 (I will give killdrive a little credit for this one, but Brown kind of stole the show and panthers werent really ready for us.)

See the difference ?

Good teams we dont fair well
Bad teams we improve on our overall numbers.

bottom line
There is no consistency, cant move the ball very good on the better teams and redzone has been an issue for most of the year. Tynes having career year as a result.

Moke
12-21-2012, 11:42 AM
The Giants don't have consistency all around. I wouldn't blame it all on the offense. It's about the execution. Leave Gilbride alone.

brad
12-21-2012, 11:49 AM
The Giants don't have consistency all around. I wouldn't blame it all on the offense. It's about the execution. Leave Gilbride alone.

If it is all execution, then KG should not receive any credit for when they were executing. I don't blame it all on KG, but to say that he takes no responsibility, or credit, for the offensive performance is, in my view, flat out wrong. Based on this philosophy, we don't need an offensive coordinator at all!

Flip Empty
12-21-2012, 11:49 AM
It's hard to leave him alone after that duckfart of a gameplan he used in Atlanta. When Gilbride's scheme works, it's brilliant. When it doesn't, it's catastrophic.
It's like this team rolls without a backup plan.

Roosevelt
12-21-2012, 12:01 PM
I guess it is quite obvious that our offense is rather pedestrian at most. Last year we had the benefit of 5 yard plays going for 60 yard TDs. (just like Killdrive drew it up ahaha) well this year we aren't getting super human plays from Nicks and Cruz and others. So Killdrive would have to use his 40 + years of coaching knowledge to come up with a fix ?? still waiting. Geeez the Browns offense is more efficient and explosive then our offense ?.

So for all those who were always supporting his case and reminding us of our offense being ranked top 4 in yards or whatever ? where are you now.

Bad offensive showings (look at the teams)

Atlanta - 0 (nothing more to say)
Redskins - 16 points (biggest game of the year at that point) Redzone disaster !
Bengals - 13 points
Steelers - 13 points (7 by the defense and they set up offense to score a few times) disastrous offensive showing and should have easily won this if offense could score.
Cowboys - 22 points scored from Offense 7 by our defense not to mention we gave the offense the ball 6 extra times. Poor redzone and offensive showing and really a game we should have lost.
Skins game - 27 points - 7 in last couple of secs.
Eagles 17 points (ignored running game)

Giants offense explosion (look at the teams!)

Bucs 41 (terrible pass defense, 1 of the worst)
Saints 52 (terrible defense worst in the league)
GB 38 (without a lot of key defenders also no pass rush to worry about)
Browns 41 (Browns are a lot more sound now, they were without Hayden and his backup)
panthers 36 (I will give killdrive a little credit for this one, but Brown kind of stole the show and panthers werent really ready for us.)

See the difference ?

Good teams we dont fair well
Bad teams we improve on our overall numbers.

bottom line
There is no consistency, cant move the ball very good on the better teams and redzone has been an issue for most of the year. Tynes having career year as a result.

Your quite the provocateur.

Here we are coming off our second super bowl in five years and your killing one coach for our teams problems despite the fact our players are not playing all that well, and some are battling injuries.

Oh yeah, even Tynes has not performed well as of late.

M00KIE
12-21-2012, 12:04 PM
Not much to argue anymore. Some fans just don't appreciate how good we have it. Ramble on grumpy ramblers...

GameTime
12-21-2012, 12:08 PM
ehh...I put no more blame on KG as I normally would. At time sits him, at times its Eli, at times its TC not forcing him to change things up.

The only thing that really pisses me off is that in games hwere they should have a sense of urgency they Giants O has shown ZERO!!!
Look at the Pats last week...down 31-3 and they tie it up by going speed no huddle...
If I could ask TC or KG one question it would be that...."why dont you use the 2 minute or no huddle more often"

brad
12-21-2012, 12:11 PM
ehh...I put no more blame on KG as I normally would. At time sits him, at times its Eli, at times its TC not forcing him to change things up.

The only thing that really pisses me off is that in games hwere they should have a sense of urgency they Giants O has shown ZERO!!!
Look at the Pats last week...down 31-3 and they tie it up by going speed no huddle...
If I could ask TC or KG one question it would be that...."why dont you use the 2 minute or no huddle more often"

+1

RoanokeFan
12-21-2012, 12:29 PM
I guess it is quite obvious that our offense is rather pedestrian at most. Last year we had the benefit of 5 yard plays going for 60 yard TDs. (just like Killdrive drew it up ahaha) well this year we aren't getting super human plays from Nicks and Cruz and others. So Killdrive would have to use his 40 + years of coaching knowledge to come up with a fix ?? still waiting. Geeez the Browns offense is more efficient and explosive then our offense ?.

So for all those who were always supporting his case and reminding us of our offense being ranked top 4 in yards or whatever ? where are you now.

Bad offensive showings (look at the teams)

Atlanta - 0 (nothing more to say)
Redskins - 16 points (biggest game of the year at that point) Redzone disaster !
Bengals - 13 points
Steelers - 13 points (7 by the defense and they set up offense to score a few times) disastrous offensive showing and should have easily won this if offense could score.
Cowboys - 22 points scored from Offense 7 by our defense not to mention we gave the offense the ball 6 extra times. Poor redzone and offensive showing and really a game we should have lost.
Skins game - 27 points - 7 in last couple of secs.
Eagles 17 points (ignored running game)

Giants offense explosion (look at the teams!)

Bucs 41 (terrible pass defense, 1 of the worst)
Saints 52 (terrible defense worst in the league)
GB 38 (without a lot of key defenders also no pass rush to worry about)
Browns 41 (Browns are a lot more sound now, they were without Hayden and his backup)
panthers 36 (I will give killdrive a little credit for this one, but Brown kind of stole the show and panthers werent really ready for us.)

See the difference ?

Good teams we dont fair well
Bad teams we improve on our overall numbers.

bottom line
There is no consistency, cant move the ball very good on the better teams and redzone has been an issue for most of the year. Tynes having career year as a result.


Isn't this basically the same game plan that we used to win two Super Bowls?

Kruunch
12-21-2012, 12:36 PM
ehh...I put no more blame on KG as I normally would. At time sits him, at times its Eli, at times its TC not forcing him to change things up.

The only thing that really pisses me off is that in games hwere they should have a sense of urgency they Giants O has shown ZERO!!!
Look at the Pats last week...down 31-3 and they tie it up by going speed no huddle...
If I could ask TC or KG one question it would be that...."why dont you use the 2 minute or no huddle more often"

+2

Rudyy
12-21-2012, 12:44 PM
Isn't this basically the same game plan that we used to win two Super Bowls?That was last year, and 2007. Teams are not surprised anymore.

RoanokeFan
12-21-2012, 01:00 PM
That was last year, and 2007. Teams are not surprised anymore.

That's not my point. If the answer is yes, then it seems to me it's player execution or perhaps even who the players are from season to season.

This season we started the three safety scheme when KP was healthy and we throttled back on it when he wasn't. And yet we brought it back without KP and it worked fairly well. But we also had Jacquian Williams back on the field in that game. So it just seems to me it's not as simple as blaming the coordinator.

As a historical note, some have complained that TC is "too loyal" to his coaches and yet since 2006, three coordinators have been fired. None of us know how this team is run, who decides what, and when. We are fans and that makes us emotional as it should be.

We have two games left in the regular season. I think we'll win them both and go to the playoffs. But whether we do or not, this is still the best NFL franchise on earth and I'll continue to support them as I have since 1955.

byron
12-21-2012, 01:00 PM
Isn't this basically the same game plan that we used to win two Super Bowls?

I'm gonna try and be good here because hey they have given us two awesome play off runs culminating with Super bowl wins...Against probably one of the best and most successful franchises in football today.... The game plan needs to have some change to it or teams are just plain gonna figure it out......Again I'm just saying... and none of us really know what goes on in that department......creativity is important tho it keeps people interested and off guard some...

brad
12-21-2012, 01:03 PM
We have two games left in the regular season. I think we'll win them both and go to the playoffs. But whether we do or not, this is still the best NFL franchise on earth and I'll continue to support them as I have since 1955.

As frustrated as I may get with play calling or what I perceive as lack of heart... this says it all.. except for the 1955 part, I don't go back that far :). We have been very fortunate, even spoiled the past few years. The downside to that is that we sometimes forget how bad it has been in the past.

RoanokeFan
12-21-2012, 01:06 PM
As frustrated as I may get with play calling or what I perceive as lack of heart... this says it all.. except for the 1955 part, I don't go back that far :). We have been very fortunate, even spoiled the past few years. The downside to that is that we sometimes forget how bad it has been in the past.

It's great having all this seniority :cool:

byron
12-21-2012, 01:07 PM
That's not my point. If the answer is yes, then it seems to me it's player execution or perhaps even who the players are from season to season.

This season we started the three safety scheme when KP was healthy and we throttled back on it when he wasn't. And yet we brought it back without KP and it worked fairly well. But we also had Jacquian Williams back on the field in that game. So it just seems to me it's not as simple as blaming the coordinator.

As a historical note, some have complained that TC is "too loyal" to his coaches and yet since 2006, three coordinators have been fired. None of us know how this team is run, who decides what, and when. We are fans and that makes us emotional as it should be.

We have two games left in the regular season. I think we'll win them both and go to the playoffs. But whether we do or not, this is still the best NFL franchise on earth and I'll continue to support them as I have since 1955.
+1 RF... There is a big picture to what happens on the field injuries play a big part like the three safety look you mention,depth of players ,execution,preperation,game plans and so on is all part and parcel as to what happens on the field And I'm with you two games and in !

Rudyy
12-21-2012, 01:10 PM
That's not my point. If the answer is yes, then it seems to me it's player execution or perhaps even who the players are from season to season.This season we started the three safety scheme when KP was healthy and we throttled back on it when he wasn't. And yet we brought it back without KP and it worked fairly well. But we also had Jacquian Williams back on the field in that game. So it just seems to me it's not as simple as blaming the coordinator. As a historical note, some have complained that TC is "too loyal" to his coaches and yet since 2006, three coordinators have been fired. None of us know how this team is run, who decides what, and when. We are fans and that makes us emotional as it should be. We have two games left in the regular season. I think we'll win them both and go to the playoffs. But whether we do or not, this is still the best NFL franchise on earth and I'll continue to support them as I have since 1955.How would it always br player execution if they always say we had good practices, or that they are ready. Game plans can be exploited you know that right? That's the point of a defense. To stop the opposing team, and so far many defenses are doing that.

BuffyBlueII
12-21-2012, 01:15 PM
We have won 2 SuperBowls over the past 5 years in spite of our OC. His game plans are set up against our offenses strengths and not geared toward them. It is time for him to go.It is a huge compliment to Eli Manning and our offense for being successful under such a miserable system with this idiot OCI shudder to think what we would do under a competent OC.

Roosevelt
12-21-2012, 01:16 PM
That was last year, and 2007. Teams are not surprised anymore.

Really? How did we do against the 49'ers this year?

Moke
12-21-2012, 01:21 PM
That's not my point. If the answer is yes, then it seems to me it's player execution or perhaps even who the players are from season to season.

This season we started the three safety scheme when KP was healthy and we throttled back on it when he wasn't. And yet we brought it back without KP and it worked fairly well. But we also had Jacquian Williams back on the field in that game. So it just seems to me it's not as simple as blaming the coordinator.

As a historical note, some have complained that TC is "too loyal" to his coaches and yet since 2006, three coordinators have been fired. None of us know how this team is run, who decides what, and when. We are fans and that makes us emotional as it should be.

We have two games left in the regular season. I think we'll win them both and go to the playoffs. But whether we do or not, this is still the best NFL franchise on earth and I'll continue to support them as I have since 1955.

Lol, okay ... best franchise on earth since 1955.

I wish people watch other teams too...

byron
12-21-2012, 01:23 PM
As frustrated as I may get with play calling or what I perceive as lack of heart... this says it all.. except for the 1955 part, I don't go back that far :). We have been very fortunate, even spoiled the past few years. The downside to that is that we sometimes forget how bad it has been in the past.
I'm 60 been watching the Giants for as long as I can remember....these are truly good times....we all get frustrated and want to blame/find something that is the cause of the failures its what we do as fans ...I never like a loss but if they play hard go down fighting it far easier to take compared to the 34 to zip game we watched last week where everything just plain looked bad......Its a good thing to have guys like RF around here "cooler heads"...It sure helps me get grounded again and realize how good we have it with this franchise and their dedication to winning

Flip Empty
12-21-2012, 01:25 PM
Really? How did we do against the 49'ers this year?
That game was won on defense. The offense ran the ball to set up field goals.

BlueReign
12-21-2012, 01:26 PM
KG calls plays that should would theoretically, but our players don't have the skill sets to actually make these theories work. KG has to recognize when certain things just don't work and must be aware of the skills each player brings/doesn't bring to the table.

brad
12-21-2012, 01:31 PM
I'm 60 been watching the Giants for as long as I can remember....these are truly good times....we all get frustrated and want to blame/find something that is the cause of the failures its what we do as fans ...I never like a loss but if they play hard go down fighting it far easier to take compared to the 34 to zip game we watched last week where everything just plain looked bad......Its a good thing to have guys like RF around here "cooler heads"...It sure helps me get grounded again and realize how good we have it with this franchise and their dedication to winning

It's good to have fans like you and RF... makes me feel younger... LOL. I have been a fan since the early 80's. Seen the good and bad, just not as much :)

TheShouldersOf
12-21-2012, 01:33 PM
He doesn't utilize and capitalize on individual talents, and doesn't adjust from day to day, what worked for last year will not work for this year, different personal, different year etc,

no creativity in his work, his highly touted 'Complex Offensive System' seems to be more of an Ego boost than anything

danielboone
12-21-2012, 01:36 PM
I've seen many posts here at different times saying that the Giants win against the better teams and lose the games they should win. But I agree with you that it is the other way around not only this year but other years too. Thanks for giving me some ammunition. In fact, it makes sense that you should do less well against the better defenses.

However, I do not see how that makes your point. It happens to all the teams. The average numbers of all the teams are helped by the weak teams. So the relative position of a team is still a meaningful statistic. 4th position. Significant. In fact, since the Giants have the toughest schedule in the league this year, it is an even more significant statistic.

Roosevelt
12-21-2012, 01:43 PM
That game was won on defense. The offense ran the ball to set up field goals.

26 points ain't too shabby.

And more to the point, after the game the Niners we saying that we did a good job of changing things up offensively.

Now, after the Atlanta game Cruz comes out and says that the WR's weren't making the correct reads.

How about Norv Turner? Here's a guy that had success in Dallas but how's his offense looking now with San Diego?

Fans can blame whoever they want, but the fact is our system (like it or not) has proven itself twice.

ozzie0075
12-21-2012, 01:44 PM
We have won 2 SuperBowls over the past 5 years in spite of our OC. His game plans are set up against our offenses strengths and not geared toward them. It is time for him to go.It is a huge compliment to Eli Manning and our offense for being successful under such a miserable system with this idiot OCI shudder to think what we would do under a competent OC.

You don't just win 2 super bowls in spite of your OC. Gilbride gets all of the blame when things go poorly and none of the credit when things go well. When the reality is its a team effort. When things go well you have a good game plan and a good performance by the players. When they go badly it can could have a great game plan and poor execution or both can be bad. There is plenty of blame to go around for the offensive struggles and putting it all on one person or there other is wrong.

ozzie0075
12-21-2012, 01:49 PM
26 points ain't too shabby.

And more to the point, after the game the Niners we saying that we did a good job of changing things up offensively.

Now, after the Atlanta game Cruz comes out and says that the WR's weren't making the correct reads.

How about Norv Turner? Here's a guy that had success in Dallas but how's his offense looking now with San Diego?

Fans can blame whoever they want, but the fact is our system (like it or not) has proven itself twice.

Thank you for bringing some intelligence to this discussion. All people want to do here is blame Gilbride for the offensive shortcomings but it has produced 2 super bowls.

Roosevelt
12-21-2012, 01:50 PM
I'm 60 been watching the Giants for as long as I can remember....these are truly good times....we all get frustrated and want to blame/find something that is the cause of the failures its what we do as fans ...I never like a loss but if they play hard go down fighting it far easier to take compared to the 34 to zip game we watched last week where everything just plain looked bad......Its a good thing to have guys like RF around here "cooler heads"...It sure helps me get grounded again and realize how good we have it with this franchise and their dedication to winning

Hey B,

Good post. The young fans don't know what us older folks went through. Not only did we have our lean years, but we couldn't even watch the Giants home games for years. I think our games were blacked out until what, 1976?

That's why many people my age became Steeler, Cowboy, and Raider fans. They were the good teams we watched as kids.

Redeyejedi
12-21-2012, 02:41 PM
Isn't this basically the same game plan that we used to win two Super Bowls?Its exactly the same, the difference is the QB has been terrible. I saw plenty of chances in the first half and they wer squandered. Doesnt help Nicks has been hurt all season

Redeyejedi
12-21-2012, 02:45 PM
That's not my point. If the answer is yes, then it seems to me it's player execution or perhaps even who the players are from season to season.

This season we started the three safety scheme when KP was healthy and we throttled back on it when he wasn't. And yet we brought it back without KP and it worked fairly well. But we also had Jacquian Williams back on the field in that game. So it just seems to me it's not as simple as blaming the coordinator.

As a historical note, some have complained that TC is "too loyal" to his coaches and yet since 2006, three coordinators have been fired. None of us know how this team is run, who decides what, and when. We are fans and that makes us emotional as it should be.

We have two games left in the regular season. I think we'll win them both and go to the playoffs. But whether we do or not, this is still the best NFL franchise on earth and I'll continue to support them as I have since 1955.
Wait a post that makes sense get off this board . The game plan is to complex and predictable !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Marvelousmik
12-21-2012, 03:04 PM
How would it always br player execution if they always say we had good practices.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frsId3goYYE

Rudyy
12-21-2012, 03:06 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frsId3goYYEYou quoted me without putting a response. I'm on my phone so if you put an embedded video, I can't see it. Otherwise..I don't see anything lol.

Marvelousmik
12-21-2012, 03:08 PM
You quoted me without putting a response. I'm on my phone so if you put an embedded video, I can't see it. Otherwise..I don't see anything lol.

you'll see when you get home

Rudyy
12-21-2012, 03:10 PM
you'll see when you get homelooking forward to it....lol

brad
12-21-2012, 03:15 PM
Its exactly the same, the difference is the QB has been terrible. I saw plenty of chances in the first half and they wer squandered. Doesnt help Nicks has been hurt all season

So... the play of a player can diminish (even in their prime) but coaching can't? I agree that Eli has not been playing well, but I would also assert that KG has not adjusted the offense to the talent available and the fact that defenses have figured out how to stop the offense. The biggest factor in that is that defenses are using the "read and react" routes that the receivers run by disguising what the defense is really doing. The receivers/QB react to what they see, and fall into what the defense wants them to do. Our offense is predictable because defenses have learned how to make them do what they want, then counter it.

Rudyy
12-21-2012, 04:37 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frsId3goYYEHa of course..

Well practice makes perfect right? :P

RoanokeFan
12-21-2012, 04:44 PM
Its exactly the same, the difference is the QB has been terrible. I saw plenty of chances in the first half and they wer squandered. Doesnt help Nicks has been hurt all season

I can't argue about Eli's problems that I hope are temporary. We've also had injuries, as you suggest, but all teams have injuries. These next two games will tell us if the players have already checked out or not. I don't think they have, but they do have to prove it now.

Baby Bulls
12-21-2012, 04:51 PM
Roanoke Fan, I come close to you, but maybe 1958/59, have seen the good days and the bad days.

You make some valid points, yes, Eil hasn't played well, Nicks is not playing up to his potential due to injuries. Having said that, my beef with Gilbride, which I posted somewhere else earlier this week, is that he just doesn't call smart plays enough of the time. Last week with Wilson starting, every damn running play is between the tackles. This kid has real speed, let's try a toss or two and let him take advantage of that speed. The other play that drives me nuts with Gilbride is the 3rd and short. Why does he always call for a bomb, when all we need is 1-2 yards, just makes me crazy.

Buddy333
12-21-2012, 04:59 PM
Depends on how you look at numbers. See, he numbers are not great this year but the OC does not throw interceptions, get called for penalties, or fail to make a block. No one is perfect so maybe not every play he calls is great. His career numbers with the Giants say he has been a very good OC. How many years have they had a top 10 offense? How many OC's that are coaching today have two Super Bowl rings?

RoanokeFan
12-21-2012, 05:00 PM
Roanoke Fan, I come close to you, but maybe 1958/59, have seen the good days and the bad days.

You make some valid points, yes, Eil hasn't played well, Nicks is not playing up to his potential due to injuries. Having said that, my beef with Gilbride, which I posted somewhere else earlier this week, is that he just doesn't call smart plays enough of the time. Last week with Wilson starting, every damn running play is between the tackles. This kid has real speed, let's try a toss or two and let him take advantage of that speed. The other play that drives me nuts with Gilbride is the 3rd and short. Why does he always call for a bomb, when all we need is 1-2 yards, just makes me crazy.

I'm not smart enough to tell any coach what they need to be doing. I see a lot of folks saying we "don't adjust" but how would "we" know that unless we knew what the game plan was in the first place. It's very easy to say "that play doesn't work" after it hasn't. But I hear the same arguments even when we win games.

The only thing I can see with some certainty is players who fail in their assignments. I've read quotes from players who say it's their job to excecute whatever plays are called. I read a piece this week where Canty, I think it was, said they missed 18 tackles on Sunday.

I don't know what the problem(s) is/are but I do believe everyone on the field shares in that responsibility. I am counting on them go pull their collective heads out of their asses and fix whatever is wrong.

As for Wilson, of whom I am BIG fan now having both of his jerseys lol, I think they are trying to give him more opportunities. But I don't think he can carry the load just yet. I think that's why we've seen Lumpkin getting snaps to serve as a change up in Bradshaw's absence.

BuffyBlueII
12-21-2012, 05:07 PM
So the basic gist of this topic is that it is mainly because of injuries, lack od depth and poor execution and our miserable piece of garbage OC has nothing to do with it. Well, do you think that perhaps even just a little bit that maybe the OC would adjust game plans and game calling for this? Oh wait. We see Coach Bellichek and Coach Tomlins OCs do that all the time. Our piece of garbage OC just tailors the plan away from our strengths and also when Tuck and Osi cry.Got it.

Marvelousmik
12-21-2012, 05:22 PM
Ha of course..

Well practice makes perfect right? :P

I see what you were trying to say but c'mon. we talking about practice. Anyone can look good and execute in practice, but when you're on the field in a real game the intensity level and speed of the game is going to be much different. I do agree that the game plan and play calls are part of the reason why we are struggling on offense because i look at teams like the bengals and the cardinals and watch them put up points and move the ball against teams in our division which we struggled to even get first downs on. Ealier in the year kevin kolb moved the ball down the field against the eagles defense as if it was nothing You cant tell me those teams have more talent on offense than us. So yes i agree We need to start changing things up a bit.

But cmon rudyy. Practice? Not the game. You're talking about how the players executed in practice lol? Practice?

Marvelousmik
12-21-2012, 05:31 PM
Last week with Wilson starting, every damn running play is between the tackles. This kid has real speed, let's try a toss or two and let him take advantage of that speed. The other play that drives me nuts with Gilbride is the 3rd and short. Why does he always call for a bomb, when all we need is 1-2 yards, just makes me crazy.

I strongly disagree with this logic. For starters, when wilson first starting getting carries, very often he would come in for 1 play on offense and you know what that play would be? A toss to the outside. We all know he is fast but you cant keep running the same particular running play to a specific back. You have to learn to run between the tackles if you want to be successful In the nfl. (correct me if i am wrong but i think we ran a toss in almost every game wilson has come in on. Or at least close to it)

In regards to your second point about us throwing deep on 3rd and short, you need to understand that everyone isnt running a deep pattern. There are other guys running short to intermediate routes too. Eli is the one throwing the ball to the guy he feels has the best chance of making the play.

byron
12-21-2012, 05:34 PM
Hey B,

Good post. The young fans don't know what us older folks went through. Not only did we have our lean years, but we couldn't even watch the Giants home games for years. I think our games were blacked out until what, 1976?

That's why many people my age became Steeler, Cowboy, and Raider fans. They were the good teams we watched as kids. I hated that black out ****...In those days I just hoped they could keep a game close make us proud...I always had faith that they would make adjustments at the half ....their were a lot of bad years for sure... they would get us a win now and again that keep us fans going....In my memory those as bad as they were always played proud .... No matter what I say around here even when I'm pissing and moarning is because I love this team and want them to look good even when they lose...I guess thats a pride thing on my part....when they show that on the field and they fight till the gun ends it....how can you fault them ...We're are still in it Rosey they show they win and that I have no doubts about ........Go Giants!!!!!!

Rudyy
12-21-2012, 05:34 PM
I see what you were trying to say but c'mon. we talking about practice. Anyone can look good and execute in practice, but when you're on the field in a real game the intensity level and speed of the game is going to be much different. I do agree that the game plan and play calls are part of the reason why we are struggling on offense because i look at teams like the bengals and the cardinals and watch them put up points and move the ball against teams in our division which we struggled to even get first downs on. Ealier in the year kevin kolb moved the ball down the field against the eagles defense as if it was nothing You cant tell me those teams have more talent on offense than us. So yes i agree We need to start changing things up a bit.

But cmon rudyy. Practice? Not the game. You're talking about how the players executed in practice lol? Practice?Well in regards to the Cardinals vs the Eagles, it was about the matchup. Arizona's defense was top 5 back then, and you're going up against a fragile offensive line and a fragile quarterback..so that really doesn't surprise me. Also..you are giving the Eagles way too much credit. Their defense is terrible. Especially against the run.

If these no show games/second half slumps didn't occur then yes, I would probably say hey our guys need to execute. This happens almost every year under Coughlin. Why? I don't know. Maybe the players are tired, maybe teams are figuring us out. Whatever it is, something is not working. We are too talented and too smart of a football team to be putting ZERO points, and have trouble scoring touchdowns.

The reason why I brought up practice, is because they always bring it up lol especially Eli and TC. "Thought we had a good practice...thought he had a solid practice". Really? so...why are you playing like you haven't practiced in 7 years? What are you actually practicing guys? And yes! the intensity of the game is different, which is why you need a backup plan..WE HAVE NONE. Once our gameplan folds, that's it..we either rely on Eli to dig us out or we completely fold..why?

If you're telling me oh it's the players responsibility to execute then we need different players..I'm sorry. There is no way I'm going to believe the players lost all their football ability in the second half of the season. It's more than just "it's execution". You can execute a bad play call too btw.

byron
12-21-2012, 05:37 PM
I'm not smart enough to tell any coach what they need to be doing. I see a lot of folks saying we "don't adjust" but how would "we" know that unless we knew what the game plan was in the first place. It's very easy to say "that play doesn't work" after it hasn't. But I hear the same arguments even when we win games.

The only thing I can see with some certainty is players who fail in their assignments. I've read quotes from players who say it's their job to excecute whatever plays are called. I read a piece this week where Canty, I think it was, said they missed 18 tackles on Sunday.

I don't know what the problem(s) is/are but I do believe everyone on the field shares in that responsibility. I am counting on them go pull their collective heads out of their asses and fix whatever is wrong.

As for Wilson, of whom I am BIG fan now having both of his jerseys lol, I think they are trying to give him more opportunities. But I don't think he can carry the load just yet. I think that's why we've seen Lumpkin getting snaps to serve as a change up in Bradshaw's absence.
I know I lose my head around here some....I do try not to ..lol.......Great post RF

Marvelousmik
12-21-2012, 05:39 PM
I'm not smart enough to tell any coach what they need to be doing. I see a lot of folks saying we "don't adjust" but how would "we" know that unless we knew what the game plan was in the first place. It's very easy to say "that play doesn't work" after it hasn't. But I hear the same arguments even when we win games.

The only thing I can see with some certainty is players who fail in their assignments. I've read quotes from players who say it's their job to excecute whatever plays are called. I read a piece this week where Canty, I think it was, said they missed 18 tackles on Sunday.

I don't know what the problem(s) is/are but I do believe everyone on the field shares in that responsibility.

this right here says it all. perfectly put. its so easy to say horrible call when the play doesnt work and i noticed it doesnt matter if its a run or pass. If a pass fails they blame the play call and if we run and it doesnt work all hell breaks loose on these boards. There is a football saying that goes "Other guys get paid too". We arent the only ones on the field. You have to give credit to the defense.

Die-Hard
12-21-2012, 05:48 PM
Like it or not, guys, a large part of our offensive problems stem from the OL. How many throws are rushed and off the mark because Eli has no time? How do you expect Wilson or Bradshaw to get anywhere when the opposing defense is in the backfield practically waiting for the handoff?

There is obviously more to it, and other areas of the team are also responsible, but no matter how many disagree, games are won and lost in the trenches.

nycisgreat
12-21-2012, 05:51 PM
The Giants don't have consistency all around. I wouldn't blame it all on the offense. It's about the execution. Leave Gilbride alone.

I am getting tired of the execution phrase. How about giving opposing defenses credit for uncovering our schemes as if they are in our huddle. Sometimes the defenses that we play call the right plays to stop us.

Marvelousmik
12-21-2012, 05:53 PM
. Also..you are giving the Eagles way too much credit. Their defense is terrible. Especially against the run.


Nah, my point was that if the cardinals and bengals could move the ball against the eagles defense as if its nothing, then we should be able to do so also because i think the giants have more talent on offense than those 2 teams. This is why do believe part of the problem is the play calls and game planning offensively. The redskins ripped the cowboys defense to shreds but we couldnt even get first downs. we always make the Eagles look like God's but when other teams play against them they get exposed. The game plan is definitely part of it. However whether you want to admit it or not, a big part of it is also Eli. And the Offensive Line.

brad
12-21-2012, 05:54 PM
Like it or not, guys, a large part of our offensive problems stem from the OL. How many throws are rushed and off the mark because Eli has no time? How do you expect Wilson or Bradshaw to get anywhere when the opposing defense is in the backfield practically waiting for the handoff?

There is obviously more to it, and other areas of the team are also responsible, but no matter how many disagree, games are won and lost in the trenches.

Pressures on the QB are down from about 39% last year to 25% this year (don't remember exact numbers) and Eli has been sacked less than any QB in the league. And, to top that off rushing yards per game are up about 20 yards. The o-line may not be great, but they are not anywhere near as bad as everyone keeps suggesting.

Rudyy
12-21-2012, 05:54 PM
I am getting tired of the execution phrase. How about giving opposing defenses credit for uncovering our schemes as if they are in our huddle. Sometimes the defenses that we play call the right plays to stop us.They have a point with the dropped passes/interceptions and what not. It is execution but yeah I agree with you. Teams are countering what we did last year whether they want to believe it or not.

nycisgreat
12-21-2012, 05:56 PM
They have a point with the dropped passes/interceptions and what not. It is execution but yeah I agree with you. Teams are countering what we did last year whether they want to believe it or not.

Of course, drops and interceptions are a given to happen. Aside from those things, our offense rarely had answers for other teams this season. I am not sure why.

giantsfan420
12-21-2012, 05:57 PM
Like it or not, guys, a large part of our offensive problems stem from the OL. How many throws are rushed and off the mark because Eli has no time? How do you expect Wilson or Bradshaw to get anywhere when the opposing defense is in the backfield practically waiting for the handoff?

There is obviously more to it, and other areas of the team are also responsible, but no matter how many disagree, games are won and lost in the trenches.i agree. If i could redo one thing on this team itd be Ol and de bc imo thats where we r losing these games

brad
12-21-2012, 05:59 PM
They have a point with the dropped passes/interceptions and what not. It is execution but yeah I agree with you. Teams are countering what we did last year whether they want to believe it or not.

+1

I have said this a few times, but am saying it again, I actually think that defenses are scheming against the option routes. Our receivers read the coverages then choose the route based on what they see. I believe that they are disguising coverages to get receivers to go where they want them too, that gives the impression that defenses know what is coming on every play... because they do. They are manipulating the option routes.

Rudyy
12-21-2012, 06:01 PM
Nah, my point was that if the cardinals and bengals could move the ball against the eagles defense as if its nothing, then we should be able to do so also because i think the giants have more talent on offense than those 2 teams. This is why do believe part of the problem is the play calls and game planning offensively. The redskins ripped the cowboys defense to shreds but we couldnt even get first downs. we always make the Eagles look like God's but when other teams play against them they get exposed. The game plan is definitely part of it. However whether you want to admit it or not, a big part of it is also Eli. And the Offensive Line.KG has massive brain farts within our division. I believe we can beat any team in the NFC BUT our division, it's so frustrating. Yes on paper we should beat them handily but we don't..time and time again.

I definitely do agree part of it is Eli, he has like 15 ints this year to only 20 touchdowns? that's not stellar at all and a little worse than last year. However, you have to take into account what he has to work with. Bradshaw has been in and out..Hakeem is running on one leg no matter how many times he says he's good to go. Cruz is smothered, and Hixon will make the occasional big play. You're right though, Eli does have to share some blame.

What I would like to see is a faster pace offense which I know is kinda hard right now considering all the injuries. We just look SOO SLOWW. Eli and the seven step drops waiting for a wide receiver to run 80 yards down the field must end. It's not there anymore. Hakeem can't make the catch and Eli can't make the throw. Also the offensive line isn't that great to hold the defensive line for 10 seconds. Incorporate some short to intermediate throws in there. Earth to KG, we have a pretty decent tight end now..and also a fast running back, incorporate them into the system! What does he do? He uses them to block so that Eli can go back to the seven step drop so they can throw it down the field 80 yards...

giantsfan420
12-21-2012, 06:01 PM
They have a point with the dropped passes/interceptions and what not. It is execution but yeah I agree with you. Teams are countering what we did last year whether they want to believe it or not.i remember suggesting defenses may know how to bait eli/wrs into making sight adjustments into traps. The second int vs atl is an example of that. The db on nicks was playing outside technique which means to nicks, go inside. The safety fokou was at the los at the snap, but drops underneath the route nicks runs for an int.
im a little worried bc the wrs/eli do so much during the play as is in identifying the d and route to run, for this offense to evolve past this issue, eli and the wrs are gonna have to do what they do now mid play, but then theyd have to decipher if they r being trapped

Marvelousmik
12-21-2012, 06:04 PM
Pressures on the QB are down from about 39% last year to 25% this year (don't remember exact numbers) and Eli has been sacked less than any QB in the league. And, to top that off rushing yards per game are up about 20 yards. The o-line may not be great, but they are not anywhere near as bad as everyone keeps suggesting.

The offensive line played pretty solid in pass protection when locklear was in, and if i remember correctly, in the begenning of the year they played solid. However over the pass few weeks they havent. They are also part of the reason the offense has been struggling. But the notion that we have one of the worst OL's is a joke. If you take a good look at whats happening to OL's around the league you wouldnt feel too bad about ours. At least before the past few weeks. But overall ever since Eli has been in the league our offensive line has been pretty damn good in pass blocking. They have had their bad games but i never really saw the OL as a major problem until this season. Now is the time we really need to take a look for some new guys

moosedrool
12-21-2012, 06:29 PM
If Nicks and Bradshaw were healthy and playing at the level they were last year, this thread wouldn't exist.

Not having a healthy Nicks is a huge difference.

Manningham's deep threat loss is a factor too.

Marvelousmik
12-21-2012, 06:43 PM
KG has massive brain farts within our division. I believe we can beat any team in the NFC BUT our division, it's so frustrating. Yes on paper we should beat them handily but we don't..time and time again.

+1 and our D linel. If you asked me who id me more confident in beating between the eagles with vick or the texans, id tell you the texans.




I definitely do agree part of it is Eli, he has like 15 ints this year to only 20 touchdowns? that's not stellar at all and a little worse than last year. However, you have to take into account what he has to work with. Bradshaw has been in and out..Hakeem is running on one leg no matter how many times he says he's good to go. Cruz is smothered, and Hixon will make the occasional big play. You're right though, Eli does have to share some blame.

Eh i cant really give this excuse to ELi because i am sure you watch other games too, and other teams have injuries as well. Rodgers played most of the season without his number 1 and now nelson is hurt. the cowboys receivers have been banged up all year, they just murray back a couple weeks ago. peyton is in a whole new offense, brees doesnt have his coach and play caller, i could probably go down the list of every offense and give you at least 3 to 4 excuses. And i am sure they're a lot of other teams out there.

I give Eli a lot more credit than to think his play would dramatically drop just because nicks is hurt. When he was hurt earlier on braden came in and made plays and its always been like that. eli has the ability to make guys around him better no matter who he has to work with. Also i am not buying into the fact that nicks is soo hurt either. I definitely dont think he is 100% but ive seen him beat guys down the field and last week i saw him catch a short pass and excellerate pretty quickly. It looked like he would have easily taken it all the way if there wasnt a guy right behind him to trip him up.

Nicks has never really been a guy that gets crazy separation and beats you vertically with his speed, although he does occasionally. But more times than not he plays a more physical role and excels at the back shoulder throw. Also i dont really care about how many touchdowns eli throws. I just care about the decisions and turn overs. We could run the ball all day and Eli could throw for 7 touchdowns and 2 interceptions on the whole year and id be happy. As long as we are winning and he isnt turning the ball over. That's the only issue i have with him


What I would like to see is a faster pace offense which I know is kinda hard right now considering all the injuries. We just look SOO SLOWW. Eli and the seven step drops waiting for a wide receiver to run 80 yards down the field must end. It's not there anymore. Hakeem can't make the catch and Eli can't make the throw. Also the offensive line isn't that great to hold the defensive line for 10 seconds. Incorporate some short to intermediate throws in there. Earth to KG, we have a pretty decent tight end now..and also a fast running back, incorporate them into the system! What does he do? He uses them to block so that Eli can go back to the seven step drop so they can throw it down the field 80 yards...

Now that the Whole eli debate thing is over (at least for the time being) maybe we could all sit down and talk some true X's and O's for once:D. I agree 100% here. Like 420 was saying, I also want to see us get out of all those tight packages and play a little more spread. Bring out 4 wideouts and a tight end. Why cant randel hixon cruz and nicks be out there at the same time along with the bennett sometimes? change up the formations a little and spread defenses out. Let eli take a little more control and hurry things up a little more. We dont only have to play fast pace when we need to come from behind. When you run the play clock down to 1 second and call omaha before every snap, it makes it tough on the O line to block because the defense gets a good jump. I would love to see something a little different and i know it would throw teams off.

giantsfan420
12-21-2012, 06:55 PM
+1 and our D linel. If you asked me who id me more confident in beating between the eagles with vick or the texans, id tell you the texans.





Eh i cant really give this excuse to ELi because i am sure you watch other games too, and other teams have injuries as well. Rodgers played most of the season without his number 1 and now nelson is hurt. the cowboys receivers have been banged up all year, they just murray back a couple weeks ago. peyton is in a whole new offense, brees doesnt have his coach and play caller, i could probably go down the list of every offense and give you at least 3 to 4 excuses. And i am sure they're a lot of other teams out there.

I give Eli a lot more credit than to think his play would dramatically drop just because nicks is hurt. When he was hurt earlier on braden came in and made plays and its always been like that. eli has the ability to make guys around him better no matter who he has to work with. Also i am not buying into the fact that nicks is soo hurt either. I definitely dont think he is 100% but ive seen him beat guys down the field and last week i saw him catch a short pass and excellerate pretty quickly. It looked like he would have easily taken it all the way if there wasnt a guy right behind him to trip him up.

Nicks has never really been a guy that gets crazy separation and beats you vertically with his speed, although he does occasionally. But more times than not he plays a more physical role and excels at the back shoulder throw. Also i dont really care about how many touchdowns eli throws. I just care about the decisions and turn overs. We could run the ball all day and Eli could throw for 7 touchdowns and 2 interceptions on the whole year and id be happy. As long as he isnt turning the ball over. That's the only issue i have with him



Now that the Whole eli debate thing is over (at least for the time being) maybe we could all sit down and talk some true X's and O's for once:D. I agree 100% here. Like 420 was saying, I also want to see us get out of all those tight packages and play a little more spread. Bring out 4 wideouts and a tight end. Why cant randel hixon cruz and nicks be out there at the same time along with the bennett sometimes? change up the formations a little and spread defenses out. Let eli take a little more control and hurry things up a little more. We dont only have to play fast pace when we need to come from behind. When you run the play clock down to 1 second and call omaha before every snap, it makes it tough on the O line to block because the defense gets a good jump. I would love to see something a little different and i know it would throw teams off.

Good post aggree with much of this.

The reason id like to see us spread out the formation a lil is bc we see how teams are defending us out of our two wide formation and they are doubling cruz and seeing if a banged up nicks will beat them. Defenses are crowding the wrs and their routes. By spreading it out, and this isnt some hot shot i cant be wrong claim just my opinion, it gives eli more options to goto. I think part of the reason eli struggles with ints is bc sometimes hes only given three targets and his decision making has regressed imo and hes forcing it into coverage, sometimes double teams even.
spreading it out gives more options that cant be doubled. Also, even tho we dont see kg use many pick plays or crossing drag routes, when u have more than one wr on each side, u can start designing route concepts to free up a target. When nicks is out wide on one side and cruz out wide on the other, u cant really do that.
i also feel itd help the run game. By coming out in spread, ur usually gonna force the d into nickel n dime packages which is a better d to run on than when u go two wide and u get all these front 7of defenders crowind the los...

Rudyy
12-21-2012, 06:57 PM
+1 and our D linel. If you asked me who id me more confident in beating between the eagles with vick or the texans, id tell you the texans.





Eh i cant really give this excuse to ELi because i am sure you watch other games too, and other teams have injuries as well. Rodgers played most of the season without his number 1 and now nelson is hurt. the cowboys receivers have been banged up all year, they just murray back a couple weeks ago. peyton is in a whole new offense, brees doesnt have his coach and play caller, i could probably go down the list of every offense and give you at least 3 to 4 excuses. And i am sure they're a lot of other teams out there.

I give Eli a lot more credit than to think his play would dramatically drop just because nicks is hurt. When he was hurt earlier on braden came in and made plays and its always been like that. eli has the ability to make guys around him better no matter who he has to work with. Also i am not buying into the fact that nicks is soo hurt either. I definitely dont think he is 100% but ive seen him beat guys down the field and last week i saw him catch a short pass and excellerate pretty quickly. It looked like he would have easily taken it all the way if there wasnt a guy right behind him to trip him up.

Nicks has never really been a guy that gets crazy separation and beats you vertically with his speed, although he does occasionally. But more times than not he plays a more physical role and excels at the back shoulder throw. Also i dont really care about how many touchdowns eli throws. I just care about the decisions and turn overs. We could run the ball all day and Eli could throw for 7 touchdowns and 2 interceptions on the whole year and id be happy. As long as we are winning and he isnt turning the ball over. That's the only issue i have with him



Now that the Whole eli debate thing is over (at least for the time being) maybe we could all sit down and talk some true X's and O's for once:D. I agree 100% here. Like 420 was saying, I also want to see us get out of all those tight packages and play a little more spread. Bring out 4 wideouts and a tight end. Why cant randel hixon cruz and nicks be out there at the same time along with the bennett sometimes? change up the formations a little and spread defenses out. Let eli take a little more control and hurry things up a little more. We dont only have to play fast pace when we need to come from behind. When you run the play clock down to 1 second and call omaha before every snap, it makes it tough on the O line to block because the defense gets a good jump. I would love to see something a little different and i know it would throw teams off.I can accept what you said regarding Eli than most of the bozos on here.

Good post.

Marvelousmik
12-21-2012, 07:04 PM
i remember suggesting defenses may know how to bait eli/wrs into making sight adjustments into traps. The second int vs atl is an example of that. The db on nicks was playing outside technique which means to nicks, go inside. The safety fokou was at the los at the snap, but drops underneath the route nicks runs for an int.
im a little worried bc the wrs/eli do so much during the play as is in identifying the d and route to run, for this offense to evolve past this issue, eli and the wrs are gonna have to do what they do now mid play, but then theyd have to decipher if they r being trapped

You might be thinking a little too much here. Even through i dont necessarily fully agree, i could see you making a case for the first interception. However the second pick was just a bad throw. Plus you could FF this video to 1:35.
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012121601/2012/REG15/giants@falcons?icampaign=GC_schedule_rr#menu=highl ights&tab=recap

The falcons were playing man to man with a guy over the top while trying to actually take away the inside. I dont think they baited eli into throwing inside on that one. And even so, if the ball wasnt thrown behind nicks he would have had an opportunity to catch that one

Marvelousmik
12-21-2012, 07:23 PM
Good post aggree with much of this.

The reason id like to see us spread out the formation a lil is bc we see how teams are defending us out of our two wide formation and they are doubling cruz and seeing if a banged up nicks will beat them. Defenses are crowding the wrs and their routes. By spreading it out, and this isnt some hot shot i cant be wrong claim just my opinion, it gives eli more options to goto. I think part of the reason eli struggles with ints is bc sometimes hes only given three targets and his decision making has regressed imo and hes forcing it into coverage, sometimes double teams even.
spreading it out gives more options that cant be doubled. Also, even tho we dont see kg use many pick plays or crossing drag routes, when u have more than one wr on each side, u can start designing route concepts to free up a target. When nicks is out wide on one side and cruz out wide on the other, u cant really do that.
i also feel itd help the run game. By coming out in spread, ur usually gonna force the d into nickel n dime packages which is a better d to run on than when u go two wide and u get all these front 7of defenders crowind the los...

well said. the only thing id change is that they arent just doubling cruz alone. They are able to double nicks and cruz based on the formation. The only person who is truly getting the 1v1 match ups is hixon. Id love to throw randel in the mix and see what he can do 1v1 vs a 4th string corner.

And i do believe guys not being open is a result of why Eli has thrown some of these picks myself. But i have to put that 100% on Eli not because i dont like him, but because at the end of the day it is his decision to make the pass. I dont feel like KG's system is bad overall, i just feel like there is a time when you need to switch things up a little. And now is the time. We can always go back to the tight formations but right now our offense is struggling and what better time would there be to become creative?

Im a guy that loves to listen to the players and ive heard the players say that teams are finding ways to double cruz and nicks, and that we need to start passing short a little more. I think its time to address this.

YATittle1962
12-21-2012, 07:41 PM
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

YATittle1962
12-21-2012, 07:42 PM
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

this thread is a real snoozer huh YA?

YATittle1962
12-21-2012, 07:43 PM
this thread is a real snoozer huh YA?

completely

hey lets blame one guy because the whole team sucks

YATittle1962
12-21-2012, 07:43 PM
completely

hey lets blame one guy because the whole team sucks

yeah it gets old

YATittle1962
12-21-2012, 07:43 PM
yeah it gets old

+1

especially when this team couldn't execute a death row inmate

Redeyejedi
12-21-2012, 07:44 PM
Pressures on the QB are down from about 39% last year to 25% this year (don't remember exact numbers) and Eli has been sacked less than any QB in the league. And, to top that off rushing yards per game are up about 20 yards. The o-line may not be great, but they are not anywhere near as bad as everyone keeps suggesting.Number is deceiving if u keep 7 guys in every play

Marvelousmik
12-21-2012, 07:53 PM
completely

hey lets blame one guy because the whole team sucks

everyone deserves blame. more so the players because at the end of the day they are the ones who are on the field. But the coaches deserve blame as well and even TC admit that they(coaches) need to do a better job.

RoanokeFan
12-21-2012, 08:09 PM
yeah it gets old

Did you call me, I'm "old" :o

OX1
12-21-2012, 08:12 PM
I'm not smart enough to tell any coach what they need to be doing. I see a lot of folks saying we "don't adjust" but how would "we" know that unless we knew what the game plan was in the first place.

OK, your an OC and your Oline blows. But, you have one of the best slot rec's in the league, a speedy RB that can catch (if they would have just played him a little more each game this season, he might even be ready), a big honkin TE and a road grader FB who can also catch. Has GB ever given the short passing game a real try. I mean commit to it, like you would the run, even if it does not work for an entire 1/4 (or more). Even Nicks, who cant stretch the field right now, can muscle a short pass away from almost anyone. I don't need to see the game plan, we all know it never changes. Anyone who watches other teams and other games can see adjustments every week.

byron
12-21-2012, 08:16 PM
+1

especially when this team couldn't execute a death row inmate lol.... they are soft

RoanokeFan
12-21-2012, 08:17 PM
+1

especially when this team couldn't execute a death row inmate

Now THIS is funny

YATittle1962
12-21-2012, 08:23 PM
Now THIS is funny

funny how?

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/3465/joepescigoodfellas.jpg

RoanokeFan
12-21-2012, 08:32 PM
funny how?

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/3465/joepescigoodfellas.jpg


Funny hilarious is how lol

GMENAGAIN
12-21-2012, 08:33 PM
funny how?

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/3465/joepescigoodfellas.jpg

Funny like a clown? I amuse you?

nycisgreat
12-21-2012, 08:42 PM
If Nicks and Bradshaw were healthy and playing at the level they were last year, this thread wouldn't exist.

Not having a healthy Nicks is a huge difference.

Manningham's deep threat loss is a factor too.

I think Hixon has nearly the same ability of Manningham, but I think the reason we miss the guy so much is due to bad offensive game planning. Cruz has most of his success in slot. This year he is playing mostly outside. I think if we ran the spread offense with Hixon or Randle on the outside and Cruz in the slot. It could be productive. Nicks and Cruz are pretty much double covered each game, and this was the same case even last year with Manningham. This scenario gave MM so many opportunities to make plays because others team were so worried about Nicks or Cruz making the big play.

I think if we run a no huddle w/spread offense I think it would be tough to stop our offense because we have so many pieces in place already.

Die-Hard
12-21-2012, 08:46 PM
KG has massive brain farts within our division. I believe we can beat any team in the NFC BUT our division, it's so frustrating. Yes on paper we should beat them handily but we don't..time and time again.

I definitely do agree part of it is Eli, he has like 15 ints this year to only 20 touchdowns? that's not stellar at all and a little worse than last year. However, you have to take into account what he has to work with. Bradshaw has been in and out..Hakeem is running on one leg no matter how many times he says he's good to go. Cruz is smothered, and Hixon will make the occasional big play. You're right though, Eli does have to share some blame.

What I would like to see is a faster pace offense which I know is kinda hard right now considering all the injuries. We just look SOO SLOWW. Eli and the seven step drops waiting for a wide receiver to run 80 yards down the field must end. It's not there anymore. Hakeem can't make the catch and Eli can't make the throw. Also the offensive line isn't that great to hold the defensive line for 10 seconds. Incorporate some short to intermediate throws in there. Earth to KG, we have a pretty decent tight end now..and also a fast running back, incorporate them into the system! What does he do? He uses them to block so that Eli can go back to the seven step drop so they can throw it down the field 80 yards...

Great observation. I agree completely. As boring as it may be to watch, the dink and dunk offense DOES work. It gets the ball out of the QB's hand much quicker, thereby taking most of the pressure off of the busted up Oline. Short slants, screens, curls in the flats, and hell, mix it up with some play action. Eli has always been very good with play action.

YATittle1962
12-21-2012, 08:58 PM
Great observation. I agree completely. As boring as it may be to watch, the dink and dunk offense DOES work. It gets the ball out of the QB's hand much quicker, thereby taking most of the pressure off of the busted up Oline. Short slants, screens, curls in the flats, and hell, mix it up with some play action. Eli has always been very good with play action.

Eli was good with play action when the running game was a threat

no running game = no reason to fear the run = no affective play action

Cloud57
12-21-2012, 09:00 PM
Eli was good with play action when the running game was a threat

no running game = no reason to fear the run = no affective play actionWe drafted a RB in the 1st round and we still have problems running the ball.

Die-Hard
12-21-2012, 09:04 PM
Eli was good with play action when the running game was a threat

no running game = no reason to fear the run = no affective play action

With the exception of last week, the running game has improved somewhat. It's been enough of a threat that they can probably get away with a handful of play action passes. The only problem is, they just aren't being called. They'd rather run the same garbage shotgun draw 23 times a game for -4 yards.

joemorrisforprez
12-21-2012, 09:07 PM
Isn't this basically the same game plan that we used to win two Super Bowls?

If I recall, the reason we won was due to Eli Manning running a 2 minute drill, twice......he was unshackled from the Gilbrideasaurus.

Rudyy
12-21-2012, 09:13 PM
Eli was good with play action when the running game was a threat

no running game = no reason to fear the run = no affective play actionThe running game isn't THAT bad. It's still not where it needs to be, but we've been averaging 116 rushing yards a game.

JJC7301
12-22-2012, 01:14 AM
I've always liked Gilbride. Is he the reason why Eli and the WR's look like crap this year? Why we don't have a consistent run game?