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View Full Version : Blame The Coaches All You Want, But We Have No Players . . .



GMENAGAIN
12-23-2012, 08:50 PM
The coaches certainly have to take some blame for the embarrassments of the last 2 weeks, but I think that the real problem is that our talent dropped off of a cliff this season.

Offense:

Eli has had a poor season. The indisputably "elite" QB's (Brees, Brady, Peyton, Rodgers) have bad games, but not bad seasons. Eli has had more than one bad season.

The OL has one above-average player -- Beatty -- and he is barely above-average. Snee's average to below average play is probably due to injury, but he is clearly on the downside.

Bradshaw and Nicks simply cannot stay healthy. Bennett has showed why he was available on the cheap.

Defense:

Osi and Tuck are completely shot and JPP is apparently unable to make plays consistently when being double-teamed.

I'm not sure how Linval Joseph could be any good if teams constant run up the middle on us with no resistance. Austin is a steaming pile of ****, Bernard is old and Canty is overpaid.

Our LB's are awful. Chase and Herzlich are embarrassing MLB's. Herzlich is a great story, but under no circumstances should he ever be on the field for anything other than special team snaps. Boley seems to be on the downside. The others? Special teamers and role players . . . . no starters.

Webster is completely done . . . no way that the team can play that guy $9M next year. Phillips can't get on the field and it is hard to imagine that he will be resigned for anything more than a totally team-friendly deal.

This is coming from a poster who staunchly supports the coaches after even the worst defeats. After seeing the last few games, though, it looks like things are going to get worse before they get better. A lot of re-tooling of the roster needs to be done before next season.

SweetZombieJesus
12-23-2012, 09:00 PM
That argument doesn't explain how we absolutely destroyed some teams this year -- Carolina (36-7), San Fran (26-3), Green Bay (38-10), New Orleans (52-27). The latter three are amongst the NFL's elite.

If the team was consistently bad, I could buy that it's purely a personnel problem. But we've looked like champs one week and chumps the next. You know what I think that means.

GMENAGAIN
12-23-2012, 09:02 PM
That argument doesn't explain how we absolutely destroyed some teams this year -- Carolina (36-7), San Fran (26-3), Green Bay (38-10), New Orleans (52-27). 3 of those 4 are quality teams.

If the team was consistently bad, I could buy that it's purely a personnel problem. But we've looked like champs one week and chumps the next.

When was the last time that we looked like champs? The Green Bay game after a long rest (which would help an old, tired team)? The Saints win, to me, was done with smoke and mirror. There were a lot of problems in that game that were ignored because of the final score.

SweetZombieJesus
12-23-2012, 09:05 PM
When was the last time that we looked like champs? The Green Bay game after a long rest (which would help an old, tired team)? The Saints win, to me, was done with smoke and mirror. There were a lot of problems in that game that were ignored because of the final score.

Even if I give you that, we looked great until the calendar flipped to November, as usual... The Green Bay game?

dakotajoe
12-23-2012, 09:44 PM
I hate to say this but I agree with the whole post.

Personally I do put some blame on the coaches but, to me, most is on the players.

I question the coaches reasoning for starting players in key positions when they are hurt and clearly unable to contribute. Also, they never designed a scheme to implement David Wilson who demonstrated his explosion on several occasions. With Nicks hurt the Giant's lacked explosion all season and needed to find that burst any way possible.

mike kennedy
12-23-2012, 09:53 PM
This whole team quit on the coaches during the last 4 games. The coaching wasn't the best but the team quit, especially the defense. Our secondary is now officially the worst in the league and our defensive line turned into a bunch of pansies.

mike kennedy
12-23-2012, 09:54 PM
I hate to say this but I agree with the whole post.

Personally I do put some blame on the coaches but, to me, most is on the players.

I question the coaches reasoning for starting players in key positions when they are hurt and clearly unable to contribute. Also, they never designed a scheme to implement David Wilson who demonstrated his explosion on several occasions. With Nicks hurt the Giant's lacked explosion all season and needed to find that burst any way possible.
I said this last week. They do not know how to use David Wilson as a starter because Gilbride is one dimensional.

appodictic
12-23-2012, 09:57 PM
Even if I give you that, we looked great until the calendar flipped to November, as usual... The Green Bay game? Green bay was missing shields and mathews. Otherwise they would have probably blanked us

Redeyejedi
12-23-2012, 09:58 PM
When was the last time that we looked like champs? The Green Bay game after a long rest (which would help an old, tired team)? The Saints win, to me, was done with smoke and mirror. There were a lot of problems in that game that were ignored because of the final score.I think the Giants should bite the bullet take the cap hits be bad for 1 year play as many young players as they can and retool the roster . There are still some quality pieces to rebuild around.

Evo'Ed
12-23-2012, 09:58 PM
IMO Bennett is hardly a problem.

If anything we under utilize him.

Eliscruzzz
12-23-2012, 09:59 PM
I'm with you on the defensive side of the ball but the offense should be better the 14 lousy points in the last 2 games...

Eliscruzzz
12-23-2012, 10:01 PM
IMO Bennett is hardly a problem.

If anything we under utilize him.exactly for what reason I have no idea why??? Maybe KG?? He was probably shocked that he was getting the ball....

I Hate T.O.
12-23-2012, 10:01 PM
there is lack of talent...and a lot of players are well past their prime...but the Offense fools no one anymore, and the D lacks talent but has a soft DC...so coaching is to be blamed as well..

Tmurda1984
12-23-2012, 10:04 PM
That argument doesn't explain how we absolutely destroyed some teams this year -- Carolina (36-7), San Fran (26-3), Green Bay (38-10), New Orleans (52-27). The latter three are amongst the NFL's elite.

If the team was consistently bad, I could buy that it's purely a personnel problem. But we've looked like champs one week and chumps the next. You know what I think that means.

Its because this team plays when they want too. This team picks and chooses what games they want to play hard and not show up for. Every year this team gets a big win, and then goes through the motions the next week. The problem with this team is that we do not have an on field leader. I been saying this since Sheridan has been here....NOW EVERYONE IS FINALLY SEEING THAT TUCK IS NOT THE LEADER, THAT EVERYONE WISHED FOR. Now people are starting to believe what I been preaching. The Giants gave this bum a "C" and he's the biggest culprit of not bringing it each and every week. This team is a reflection of the on field leaders they have. Tuck and Rolle are nothing but mouth, and talk a good game until they put the pads on. I never seen a CAPTAIN MISS A GAME DUE TO A SORE SHOULDER. What a punk!

Tmurda1984
12-23-2012, 10:07 PM
there is lack of talent...and a lot of players are well past their prime...but the Offense fools no one anymore, and the D lacks talent but has a soft DC...so coaching is to be blamed as well..

How is our DC soft....when we blitz Webster is beat over the top...when we do not blitz our front 7 does not generate a pass rush. Linval Joseph is a joke of a pass rusher and should be playing more like Geno Atkins at this point of his career. Marvin Austin is a complete joke along with Hosley. This is not our Coordinatoors fault....Webster is a veteran who should make more plays on the ball...I never seen an All-Pro $9M cornerback misplay every ball thrown his way. Maybe we should of picked up Terrance Newman is looking decent as a Bengal.

domsgiants
12-23-2012, 10:17 PM
P.f. is a joke. Even my wife starts flipping out when the other team can just sit their and complete pass after pass because are cb are playing 5 yards off the wr. He plays way to much zone coverage and doesn't alow are cb to be aggressive. Pf is a joke as is the guy that makes the calls on the other side of the ball

nhpgiantsfan
12-23-2012, 10:19 PM
How is our DC soft....when we blitz Webster is beat over the top...when we do not blitz our front 7 does not generate a pass rush. Linval Joseph is a joke of a pass rusher and should be playing more like Geno Atkins at this point of his career. Marvin Austin is a complete joke along with Hosley. This is not our Coordinatoors fault....Webster is a veteran who should make more plays on the ball...I never seen an All-Pro $9M cornerback misplay every ball thrown his way. Maybe we should of picked up Terrance Newman is looking decent as a Bengal.

Don't insult the word all pro, by using it in the same sentence as Webster. He has never been an all pro. He had a nice season last year, but has never been an elite CB.

nycisgreat
12-23-2012, 10:23 PM
Webster is completely done . . . no way that the team can play that guy $9M next year. Phillips can't get on the field and it is hard to imagine that he will be resigned for anything more than a totally team-friendly deal.




Dude, are you making this up? Wow, he has a really good agent.

GMENAGAIN
12-24-2012, 08:57 AM
Even if I give you that, we looked great until the calendar flipped to November, as usual... The Green Bay game?

You make a valid point. The coaching staff has to figure out why this happens every year.

GMENAGAIN
12-24-2012, 09:01 AM
I think the Giants should bite the bullet take the cap hits be bad for 1 year play as many young players as they can and retool the roster . There are still some quality pieces to rebuild around.

You might be right, but I hate to waste years with a franchise QB . . . they don't come around very often (except for the Colts)

Redeyejedi
12-24-2012, 09:28 AM
Dude, are you making this up? Wow, he has a really good agent. Well the thing is the year Webster became a FA he was probably the 2nd best CB in the NFL for that season, in 2008 he was the best corner ive ever seen the Giants have. After he signed that contract he was never close to that guy ever again

buster55
12-24-2012, 09:48 AM
TUCK is a no show past 2 seasons always an exuse injuries, personal issues, depressed im tired of hearing it. Does not deserve captain at all he always has a puss on his face on the sideline completely invisible on the field. OSI good riddence not the rusher he used to be and never plays the run. Tired of him chasing ball carriers when his doesnt contain the edge. KIWI very disappointing season although I think he should be on Dline. Joseph has done nothing past 6 weeks getting killed up the gut. Never want to hear AUSTINS name again a complete BUST. CANTY was hurt ill give him a pass. I think he may be the only guy who showed up yesterday. I like CHASE gives you a good effort but not a starting MLB. HERZ a special teams player thats it. Secondary is a no show week after week. Webster should be embarrassed by his play this season. Prince for being chosen in round 1 a bust so far. JPP has to find a way to make plays. Has the talent but needs to be more consistent. All the great DE get doubled but find a way. Perry Fewel has to go. Never liked KG. ELI has had a terrible season and thats why the Offense has not been consistent. Nicks always hurt should not be on the field right now. The Oline is shot. Snee, Diel its embarrassing to watch. Biggest dissapointment to me is being physically manhandled on both sides of the line of scrimmage. NOT GIANT FOOTBALL. Hate to say it but the Eagles will trounce us on SUN that will be Andy Reids going away present on our field. Going to be ugly. I have no confidence with this group at all. Cant wait for it to be over.

ukgiantstyke
12-24-2012, 09:50 AM
That argument doesn't explain how we absolutely destroyed some teams this year -- Carolina (36-7), San Fran (26-3), Green Bay (38-10), New Orleans (52-27). The latter three are amongst the NFL's elite.

If the team was consistently bad, I could buy that it's purely a personnel problem. But we've looked like champs one week and chumps the next. You know what I think that means.

Exactly ! the win column show we have the same players executing against some teams, but flounder and seem hopelessly lost against others...

titwio
12-24-2012, 09:52 AM
I think the Giants should bite the bullet take the cap hits be bad for 1 year play as many young players as they can and retool the roster . There are still some quality pieces to rebuild around.

I like this idea and agree. Some of these high priced veterans are sitting too pretty in their deals and motivation and desire are a big question right now concerning some of those guys.

I look at what Seattle is doing with their young guys and the camaraderie is outstanding.

stormblue
12-24-2012, 10:05 AM
http://boards.giants.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Redeyejedi http://boards.giants.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://boards.giants.com/showthread.php?p=634488#post634488)
I think the Giants should bite the bullet take the cap hits be bad for 1 year play as many young players as they can and retool the roster . There are still some quality pieces to rebuild around.



I like this idea and agree. Some of these high priced veterans are sitting too pretty in their deals and motivation and desire are a big question right now concerning some of those guys.


I like this idea and agree. Some of these high priced veterans are sitting too pretty in their deals and motivation and desire are a big question right now concerning some of those guys.

i'm all in with you guys on that one.

and TC is as to blame for this cap crap as Reese.

we never play our non starters enough to know if they should be kept or cut...
and we constantly restructure worn out vets instead of just taking the cap hit and letting them go.
all this because TC won't sit down a vet with seniority until he's maimed or mummified.

it has to stop sometime.....
instead of overpaying guys like C-Webb just to mortgage away our future.

GMENAGAIN
12-24-2012, 10:08 AM
http://boards.giants.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Redeyejedi http://boards.giants.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://boards.giants.com/showthread.php?p=634488#post634488)
I think the Giants should bite the bullet take the cap hits be bad for 1 year play as many young players as they can and retool the roster . There are still some quality pieces to rebuild around.



I like this idea and agree. Some of these high priced veterans are sitting too pretty in their deals and motivation and desire are a big question right now concerning some of those guys.



i'm all in with you guys on that one.

and TC is as to blame for this cap crap as Reese.

we never play our non starters enough to know if they should be kept or cut...
and we constantly restructure worn out vets instead of just taking the cap hit and letting them go.
all this because TC won't sit down a vet with seniority until he's maimed or mummified.

it has to stop sometime.....

I have never heard that TC has any involvement whatsoever in contract negotiations.

Maybe TC doesn't play the younger guys because they are horrible . . . case in point, Herzlich. Where are all the posters who thought that he would be our Urlacher??

CDN_G-FAN
12-24-2012, 10:19 AM
That argument doesn't explain how we absolutely destroyed some teams this year -- Carolina (36-7), San Fran (26-3), Green Bay (38-10), New Orleans (52-27). The latter three are amongst the NFL's elite.

If the team was consistently bad, I could buy that it's purely a personnel problem. But we've looked like champs one week and chumps the next. You know what I think that means.

we can all take the inconsistency and spin it to our particular point of view.

my point of view is that this is a complex question, and not one of "just do this and we're good".

this is not just a coaching issue, and this isn't just a personnel issue, this isn't a drafting issue. Its a complex mess and will take time to fix properly.

i think we've been able to hide our shortcomings behind both good talent (Rolle, JPP, WRs, Eli) as well as good coaching (offense that ranks one of the best in the league without a running game, one of least penalized teams in the NFL, great turnover +/-).

gumby74
12-24-2012, 10:42 AM
We have no players? Say what you want, but KP, Philips, NIcks, Cruz, Eli, Joseph, JPP, Tuck, Osi, Rolle, Prince, Boley would be starters on most teams. If we had no players we wouldn't have been able to go 6-2, beat GB, SF, NO, etc. I can't say I agree with you there. Also, we won the SB with the exact same team.

gumby74
12-24-2012, 10:44 AM
we can all take the inconsistency and spin it to our particular point of view.

my point of view is that this is a complex question, and not one of "just do this and we're good".

this is not just a coaching issue, and this isn't just a personnel issue, this isn't a drafting issue. Its a complex mess and will take time to fix properly.

i think we've been able to hide our shortcomings behind both good talent (Rolle, JPP, WRs, Eli) as well as good coaching (offense that ranks one of the best in the league without a running game, one of least penalized teams in the NFL, great turnover +/-).

No, but something needs to be changed to begin he fixing process. Of those 3 items you listed, coaching is a good place to start as it is the biggest culprit (not the only).

Hooligans
12-24-2012, 10:45 AM
The coaches certainly have to take some blame for the embarrassments of the last 2 weeks, but I think that the real problem is that our talent dropped off of a cliff this season.

Offense:

Eli has had a poor season. The indisputably "elite" QB's (Brees, Brady, Peyton, Rodgers) have bad games, but not bad seasons. Eli has had more than one bad season.

The OL has one above-average player -- Beatty -- and he is barely above-average. Snee's average to below average play is probably due to injury, but he is clearly on the downside.

Bradshaw and Nicks simply cannot stay healthy. Bennett has showed why he was available on the cheap.

Defense:

Osi and Tuck are completely shot and JPP is apparently unable to make plays consistently when being double-teamed.

I'm not sure how Linval Joseph could be any good if teams constant run up the middle on us with no resistance. Austin is a steaming pile of ****, Bernard is old and Canty is overpaid.

Our LB's are awful. Chase and Herzlich are embarrassing MLB's. Herzlich is a great story, but under no circumstances should he ever be on the field for anything other than special team snaps. Boley seems to be on the downside. The others? Special teamers and role players . . . . no starters.

Webster is completely done . . . no way that the team can play that guy $9M next year. Phillips can't get on the field and it is hard to imagine that he will be resigned for anything more than a totally team-friendly deal.

This is coming from a poster who staunchly supports the coaches after even the worst defeats. After seeing the last few games, though, it looks like things are going to get worse before they get better. A lot of re-tooling of the roster needs to be done before next season.


I agree 100%.....the coaches do have to shoulder some blame, but 90% rests on the shoulders of the the Players, who have been pathetic for the last two months. Coughlin and the other coaches do not miss tackles, drop passes, fumble, miss blocks, screw up coverages, fail to provide a pass rush, etc......that is ALL on the players. The Giants will need to clean house this offseason of a lot of the overpaid prima donnas (Tuck, Canty, ALL the linebackers, and more) that aren't producing.

GMENAGAIN
12-24-2012, 10:48 AM
We have no players? Say what you want, but KP, Philips, NIcks, Cruz, Eli, Joseph, JPP, Tuck, Osi, Rolle, Prince, Boley would be starters on most teams. If we had no players we wouldn't have been able to go 6-2, beat GB, SF, NO, etc. I can't say I agree with you there. Also, we won the SB with the exact same team.

KP and Nicks are constantly injured . . . KP can't get on the field and Nicks hasn't been the same all year due to injury.

Joseph? How is he any good? Teams rush up the middle on us with no resistance and he gets absolutely no pressure up the middle on passing downs. If he has talent, I haven't seen it.

Tuck and Osi? Have you watched them play this year? They are both shot. Once great Giants, but they just aren't good any more.

Boley has had a sub-par season and also seems to be on the downside of his career.

So basically, we're down to 2 guys on offense who are talented and made significant contributions this year (Eli, Cruz) and two guys on defense (Rolle and Prince). That's simply not enough.

Hooligans
12-24-2012, 10:51 AM
I like this idea and agree. Some of these high priced veterans are sitting too pretty in their deals and motivation and desire are a big question right now concerning some of those guys.

I look at what Seattle is doing with their young guys and the camaraderie is outstanding.

If the Giants learned anything from their embarrassing 1970's, it was they should do as you say. in the late 1970's Giant fans were in the parking lot of Giant headquarters, burning their season tickets.....that is when Wellington Mara, with the NFL's help, turned around the Giants-brought in Parcell's-and cut all the underperforming deadwood. This led to the glory-days of Giant history with LT, Simms, Reasons, Banks, Martin, etc.......time to flush the toilet on this time and start building another team that can be competitive.

CDN_G-FAN
12-24-2012, 10:54 AM
No, but something needs to be changed to begin he fixing process. Of those 3 items you listed, coaching is a good place to start as it is the biggest culprit (not the only).

meh, the idea of change for change's sake is the crutch of the simple minded.

everyone here desperately wants somthing to BLAME for this, and that's all i've really read so far about our season. This sucked and if we don't do anything drastic then it'll suck again.

well, that theory didn't seem to work from 2010 to 2011, where we sucked and then didn't suck despite not firing the coaching staff or turning over 50% of the roster.

Read Next Man Up by Feinstein, despite it being about the Ravens, its a great insight into the minds of coaches, who watch tape and practices and see what the obvious problems are and struggle fixing them, while having to endure massive pressure from the fan base and media who misdiagnose the problem.

Billick has a great line in saying that firing a coordinator is the easiest thing in the world for a head coach to do to releave the pressure they feel from the media and fans, but when you know that's not the problem, and you have guys screwing up and their replacements actually performing worse than they are in practice, then firing a coach doesn't really fix what the issue is.

even if the coaches know what the problem was this year, i doubt they'll be honest to the media about it, and that's probably a good thing.

To me this all comes down to whether you trust this coaching staff or your don't. I do.

gumby74
12-24-2012, 10:57 AM
KP and Nicks are constantly injured . . . KP can't get on the field and Nicks hasn't been the same all year due to injury.

Joseph? How is he any good? Teams rush up the middle on us with no resistance and he gets absolutely no pressure up the middle on passing downs. If he has talent, I haven't seen it.

Tuck and Osi? Have you watched them play this year? They are both shot. Once great Giants, but they just aren't good any more.

Boley has had a sub-par season and also seems to be on the downside of his career.

So basically, we're down to 2 guys on offense who are talented and made significant contributions this year (Eli, Cruz) and two guys on defense (Rolle and Prince). That's simply not enough.

Downside, injured, etc. Teams are all banged up. I honestly, don't see injuries as an excuse for poor play. Every year, we're using the same excuse.

We won the SB with the exact same people. We had people hurt last year too. We still beat a lot of good teams and started 6-2. That doesn't happen if you have no players. If you have no players you end up 4-9. We have players, we just need to figure out how to use them - when they aren't 100%.

I can't believe finding a coach that is flexible and is able to make adjustments on the fly is that difficult in the NFL. But I'm starting to realize that maybe my expectations are too high.

Hooligans
12-24-2012, 11:00 AM
meh, the idea of change for change's sake is the crutch of the simple minded.

everyone here desperately wants somthing to BLAME for this, and that's all i've really read so far about our season. This sucked and if we don't do anything drastic then it'll suck again.

well, that theory didn't seem to work from 2010 to 2011, where we sucked and then didn't suck despite not firing the coaching staff or turning over 50% of the roster.

Read Next Man Up by Feinstein, despite it being about the Ravens, its a great insight into the minds of coaches, who watch tape and practices and see what the obvious problems are and struggle fixing them, while having to endure massive pressure from the fan base and media who misdiagnose the problem.

Billick has a great line in saying that firing a coordinator is the easiest thing in the world for a head coach to do to releave the pressure they feel from the media and fans, but when you know that's not the problem, and you have guys screwing up and their replacements actually performing worse than they are in practice, then firing a coach doesn't really fix what the issue is.

even if the coaches know what the problem was this year, i doubt they'll be honest to the media about it, and that's probably a good thing.

To me this all comes down to whether you trust this coaching staff or your don't. I do.

The Giants are now a bottom-third team.......change is NOT a choice here - it is mandatory. If not, the Giants become a 5-11 team for the next two or three years. The Giants MUST change and re-build now, or become the Oakland Raiders of the NFC East.

SweetZombieJesus
12-24-2012, 11:02 AM
To me this all comes down to whether you trust this coaching staff or your don't. I do.

I don't trust that they can identify, let alone fix, the problem, since it is a repeated pattern of the last 9 years.

Maybe don't fire them, but FIGURE IT OUT for crying out loud.

GMENAGAIN
12-24-2012, 11:06 AM
Downside, injured, etc. Teams are all banged up. I honestly, don't see injuries as an excuse for poor play. Every year, we're using the same excuse.

We won the SB with the exact same people. We had people hurt last year too. We still beat a lot of good teams and started 6-2. That doesn't happen if you have no players. If you have no players you end up 4-9. We have players, we just need to figure out how to use them - when they aren't 100%.

I can't believe finding a coach that is flexible and is able to make adjustments on the fly is that difficult in the NFL. But I'm starting to realize that maybe my expectations are too high.

We didn't start rolling last year until Osi and Tuck got healthy and started playing well. Nicks was a healthy beast at the end of the year and through the playoffs. Webster was playing at a much higher level.

Even then, we were a 9-7 team. Nicks, Osi and Tuck have not contributed significantly this year. KP played 15 games last year . . . this year he has played 6. Snee is playing with a torn hip labrum. Webster's only contributions this year have been negative.

No excuses, but when you're best players aren't contributing, it's hard to win in this league.

The difference between a 9-7 team that doesn't make the playoffs and a 10-6 team that does is very small.

CDN_G-FAN
12-24-2012, 11:07 AM
The Giants are now a bottom-third team.......change is NOT a choice here - it is mandatory. If not, the Giants become a 5-11 team for the next two or three years. The Giants MUST change and re-build now, or become the Oakland Raiders of the NFC East.

Do you think this kind of thought process is new? You joined in January 2010, where you a huge coughlin fan in 2010, and now you're not?

Or more likely you were hating on Coughlin in 2010, then we won a superbowl so what could you say about the guy, and now in 2012 you're back to hating on him?

i read literally thousands of posts in 2010 saying we're doomed unless we change drastically, and in 12 months we had our 2nd SB win under this coaching staff.

what's different this time around that makes you right instead of dead wrong? Again?

gumby74
12-24-2012, 11:08 AM
meh, the idea of change for change's sake is the crutch of the simple minded.

everyone here desperately wants somthing to BLAME for this, and that's all i've really read so far about our season. This sucked and if we don't do anything drastic then it'll suck again.

well, that theory didn't seem to work from 2010 to 2011, where we sucked and then didn't suck despite not firing the coaching staff or turning over 50% of the roster.

Read Next Man Up by Feinstein, despite it being about the Ravens, its a great insight into the minds of coaches, who watch tape and practices and see what the obvious problems are and struggle fixing them, while having to endure massive pressure from the fan base and media who misdiagnose the problem.

Billick has a great line in saying that firing a coordinator is the easiest thing in the world for a head coach to do to releave the pressure they feel from the media and fans, but when you know that's not the problem, and you have guys screwing up and their replacements actually performing worse than they are in practice, then firing a coach doesn't really fix what the issue is.

even if the coaches know what the problem was this year, i doubt they'll be honest to the media about it, and that's probably a good thing.

To me this all comes down to whether you trust this coaching staff or your don't. I do.

That's fine. I've never had confidence in our coaching - 2 SB wins and all. When your team's performance is always hinged on a knife's edge - being able to tilt drastically one way or the other at any given point in time, that's a problem. We're good enough. That's fact. Now the question is why can't we win more consistently?

So you don't think that something is wrong? Giving up god knows how many yards a game is acceptable? You have complete confidence in Fewell? No team has a history of such inconsistent results as we do. When teams have talent and fail to mesh together, that's on the coaches.

It goes beyond change for the sake of change. Fewell is a problem. People like to forget how bad our defense was last year because we suddenly got hot and on the WB. We had hope that our defense finally "got it together". It's obvious last year was a fluke. That's 3 years of disgusting defense. You have faith in that? There's plenty of evidence that when a good d-coordinator takes over a defense, the difference is night and day.

CDN_G-FAN
12-24-2012, 11:15 AM
That's fine. I've never had confidence in our coaching - 2 SB wins and all. When your team's performance is always hinged on a knife's edge - being able to tilt drastically one way or the other at any given point in time, that's a problem. We're good enough. That's fact. Now the question is why can't we win more consistently?

So you don't think that something is wrong? Giving up god knows how many yards a game is acceptable? You have complete confidence in Fewell? No team has a history of such inconsistent results as we do. When teams have talent and fail to mesh together, that's on the coaches.

It goes beyond change for the sake of change. Fewell is a problem. People like to forget how bad our defense was last year because we suddenly got hot and on the WB. We had hope that our defense finally "got it together". It's obvious last year was a fluke. That's 3 years of disgusting defense. You have faith in that? There's plenty of evidence that when a good d-coordinator takes over a defense, the difference is night and day.

Like spags in every city he's been to?

hey dude, at least your consistent, and yes i think that there's something wrong here, i just don't pretend to know what it is.

What i do know is that a team that can't run the ball with Baas Diehl and Mackenzie on our o line and we win the SB is not because we're poorly coached on the offensive side of the ball, which is probably the #1 complaint on here. Eli had an off the charts season last year with literally NO running game at all, no one can convince me that's because of roster talent and in spite of horrible coaching.

on the defensive side, i think we've put too many eggs in the DL basket and we're finding out that's a stupid strategy, especially with the interior of the line.

i'd rather roll the dice with this coaching staff to figure the problem out than try and bring in new blood with new systems and be required to give them 3 years (at least) come hell or high water to show if that was a smart decision or not.

this coaching staff has proven, twice, it can win it all. good enough for me, but i respect your opinion.

chappaquakid
12-24-2012, 11:17 AM
Webster is the worst player in the history of pro football. To leave him on the field says a lot about the Giant coaches.

GMENAGAIN
12-24-2012, 11:32 AM
Webster is the worst player in the history of pro football. To leave him on the field says a lot about the Giant coaches.

Who should they have replace him with? Tryon?

Moke
12-24-2012, 11:33 AM
Who should they have replace him with? Tryon?

That's why we make changes for next season. No way we can do this next year.

Redeyejedi
12-24-2012, 11:34 AM
1 thing that I will blame on the coaches is not playing David Wilson. I mean I wasnt crazy about the value of that pick but fing play him if your going to draft him

OX1
12-24-2012, 11:36 AM
Do you think this kind of thought process is new? You joined in January 2010, where you a huge coughlin fan in 2010, and now you're not?

Or more likely you were hating on Coughlin in 2010, then we won a superbowl so what could you say about the guy, and now in 2012 you're back to hating on him?

i read literally thousands of posts in 2010 saying we're doomed unless we change drastically, and in 12 months we had our 2nd SB win under this coaching staff.

what's different this time around that makes you right instead of dead wrong? Again?

First off our division got a lot better, cept for the eagles, but they always beat us anyway.
So right off the bat, you have to be even better than you were last year. We were also
healthy at the right time. So basically we had to be even better than the SB run we
had last year AND we have to be fully healthy.

It was obvious to many that neither of those 2 things above were going to happen this year,
so the only choice left is to gamble, become very aggressive and live or die by it. Next year won't
change much, since we need a boatload of players (looks like most of O-line, couple DE's, couple LB's, corner)
and we are hurting on cap big time.

GMENAGAIN
12-24-2012, 12:18 PM
1 thing that I will blame on the coaches is not playing David Wilson. I mean I wasnt crazy about the value of that pick but fing play him if your going to draft him

I agree. He is a weapon and they didn't do enough to get the ball in his hands

Redeyejedi
12-24-2012, 12:21 PM
Webster is the worst player in the history of pro football. To leave him on the field says a lot about the Giant coaches.The problem is there is no 1 else to put in. They put Coe on IR when he was going to miss a week and now he is in Dallas