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View Full Version : An Explanation Is Due



Mick Jagger
12-23-2012, 10:09 PM
Very simply, we're all sick as dogs because we don't understand why we AGAIN tanked in the 2nd half. Why AGAIN star players turn into DOGS.

We're entitled to an explanation -- for example:

1. How does JPP go from all world to less than OK by the end of the year? Injuries, or what?

2. Why did we keep on playing Corey Webster after he kept on getting burned weekly? Today was as bad a day as any cornerback has had -- yet he remains on the field?

3. What the hell happened to Hakeem Nicks? To Victor Cruz? To Eli? On and on and on . . .

Seriously, when a team slumps, that's one thing. But the last 2 weeks were simply as bad as it gets. How does an ENTIRE TEAM CRATER AT THE SAME TIME?

WHAT HAPPENED?

I'll wait for answers from the organization . . .

Toadofsteel
12-23-2012, 10:10 PM
Coaching

Mick Jagger
12-23-2012, 10:13 PM
Coaching

That may be . . . but the coaching staff will NEVER admit it.

ozzie0075
12-23-2012, 10:14 PM
Coaching

Not all of this is coaching. These guys are professionals making a lot of money. Getting guys to play hard shouldn't be the coaches job. They players should play hard because that is what their job is.

Mick Jagger
12-23-2012, 10:17 PM
Not all of this is coaching. These guys are professionals making a lot of money. Getting guys to play hard shouldn't be the coaches job. They players should play hard because that is what their job is.

I'm no expert, but I don't think they're failing to give 100% of their energy . . . they just seem to be totally out of it. That's why the coaching point seems on point. How can a team that looked so good a month ago now look as bad as the league has to offer. Serious questions for the organization to answer.

ozzie0075
12-23-2012, 10:20 PM
I'm no expert, but I don't think they're failing to give 100% of their energy . . . they just seem to be totally out of it. That's why the coaching point seems on point. How can a team that looked so good a month ago now look as bad as the league has to offer. Serious questions for the organization to answer.

Missing tackles is all effort. And Bradshaw half assed attempts to pick up the blitz was all effort. He was there but refused to stick his head in there and do his job. Getting to the QB is also all about effort.

Mick Jagger
12-23-2012, 10:25 PM
Missing tackles is all effort. And Bradshaw half assed attempts to pick up the blitz was all effort. He was there but refused to stick his head in there and do his job. Getting to the QB is also all about effort.

You are correct, effort is essential, but not sufficient if you're consistently out-coached. And Bradshaw is badly hurt and should never have seen the field today.

domsgiants
12-23-2012, 10:26 PM
Not all of this is coaching. These guys are professionals making a lot of money. Getting guys to play hard shouldn't be the coaches job. They players should play hard because that is what their job is.

Right and if these guys dont wanna play hard like cw getting beat all year its the coaches job to put light a fire under their a** and make some kind of change and get cw out of the game and put a guy in that wants to play. But not this coaching staff the would rather keep him in and let him just keep getting beat. So yes its on the coaching

Tmurda1984
12-23-2012, 10:29 PM
There's no way Coughlin can give an accurate explanation without throwing his players under the bus. I wish Coughlin would sit us all down and go through the All 22 with each of us. I wish he would give us the details on the scheme of the play and why it failed. I would love to be a fly on that wall during film session with this team.

Mick Jagger
12-23-2012, 10:30 PM
There's no way Coughlin can give an accurate explanation without throwing his players under the bus. I wish Coughlin would sit us all down and go through the All 22 with each of us. I wish he would give us the details on the scheme of the play and why it failed. I would love to be a fly on that wall during film session with this team.

Listen, we pay too much money not to get an explanation . . . let the bus crash on them.

Tmurda1984
12-23-2012, 10:32 PM
Right and if these guys dont wanna play hard like cw getting beat all year its the coaches job to put light a fire under their a** and make some kind of change and get cw out of the game and put a guy in that wants to play. But not this coaching staff the would rather keep him in and let him just keep getting beat. So yes its on the coaching

Who else would replace Webster? You want Michael Coe in...as soon as Coughlin does that, it would be another excuse to get rid of Coughlin. So lets not sit here and think of unrealistic substitutions that would of helped us. Because there is not overwhelming talent sitting on the bench. Even when Tuck decided to sit, where was Osi, Kiwi, and Tracy? We sat here and talked about how bad Tuck was yet the guys who replaced him did awful. This shows why type of talent we have on the bench.

FBomb
12-23-2012, 10:34 PM
We ARE due an explination, but sadly, one isn't coming.

TC said last year that he "can't put the finger on why it happens"....if he can't explain it, who can?

Toadofsteel
12-23-2012, 10:35 PM
We ARE due an explination, but sadly, one isn't coming.

TC said last year that he "can't put the finger on why it happens"....if he can't explain it, who can?

If he can't explain it and he can't find an explanation soon, it's time to rebuild.

Mick Jagger
12-23-2012, 10:37 PM
If he can't explain it and he can't find an explanation soon, it's time to rebuild.

That's correct -- and I think this time, Reese et al KNOW something is really amiss. Just watch the film . . .

Parademon
12-23-2012, 10:38 PM
Lucyyyyyyyyyyy, you got some splaining to do!

Tmurda1984
12-23-2012, 10:38 PM
We ARE due an explination, but sadly, one isn't coming.

TC said last year that he "can't put the finger on why it happens"....if he can't explain it, who can?

Coughlin knows what problems we have on this team....He's to classy of a coach to throw his players under the bus. Its simple this team did not want to play and wanted an early vacation. 17 weeks is brutal and they were mentally fatigue, so they took a early vacation. Its sad when Tuck would not even suit up today but Suggs plays with a tore bicep and torn ACL.

Mick Jagger
12-23-2012, 10:40 PM
Coughlin knows what problems we have on this team....He's to classy of a coach to throw his players under the bus. Its simple this team did not want to play and wanted an early vacation. 17 weeks is brutal and they were mentally fatigue, so they took a early vacation. Its sad when Tuck would not even suit up today but Suggs plays with a tore bicep and torn ACL.

Wanted an early vacation? You're nuts . . . this is how they earn a living, today was a DISASTER for all of them financially

giantsval
12-23-2012, 10:41 PM
We ARE due an explination, but sadly, one isn't coming.

TC said last year that he "can't put the finger on why it happens"....if he can't explain it, who can?

Exactly, the question gets asked but the answer is never given. All I heard the last few weeks is we have been here before like they expected the planets to line up for them with no effort. That is the problem they expect it will line up for them and dont have to put any effort into it and THAT comes down to coaching.

Rudyy
12-23-2012, 10:41 PM
We ARE due an explination, but sadly, one isn't coming.

TC said last year that he "can't put the finger on why it happens"....if he can't explain it, who can?That's the problem. He's the coach, shouldn't he know what the problem is?

domsgiants
12-23-2012, 10:47 PM
Who else would replace Webster? You want Michael Coe in...as soon as Coughlin does that, it would be another excuse to get rid of Coughlin. So lets not sit here and think of unrealistic substitutions that would of helped us. Because there is not overwhelming talent sitting on the bench. Even when Tuck decided to sit, where was Osi, Kiwi, and Tracy? We sat here and talked about how bad Tuck was yet the guys who replaced him did awful. This shows why type of talent we have on the bench.

The guy coming in dont have to be all pro. The point is that cw and tuck have been playing bad all year. You have to take them out at some point and threaten their job at some point. Just like when cw first came to the giants he sucked. In 07 he was benched because he was playing so bad. Then as we started are super bowl run someone got hurt and he had to play and he playd great and did for years. He said him self it was because he was benched. So yes its on the coaches to make some changes

Buddy333
12-23-2012, 10:47 PM
Maybe he does know what's Wong but he does throw people under the bus.

BigBlueAllDay
12-23-2012, 10:49 PM
"We're flat-lining right now," Giants (http://boards.giants.com/teams/newyorkgiants/profile?team=NYG) coach Tom Coughlin (http://boards.giants.com/player/tomcoughlin/2512064/profile) said after the game.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000116038/article/baltimore-ravens-clinch-afc-north-giants-flatlining

CDN_G-FAN
12-23-2012, 10:50 PM
Coaching

that's always the answer when we don't want to face tougher realities.

Tmurda1984
12-23-2012, 10:52 PM
The guy coming in dont have to be all pro. The point is that cw and tuck have been playing bad all year. You have to take them out at some point and threaten their job at some point. Just like when cw first came to the giants he sucked. In 07 he was benched because he was playing so bad. Then as we started are super bowl run someone got hurt and he had to play and he playd great and did for years. He said him self it was because he was benched. So yes its on the coaches to make some changes

When Webster was benched in 07, we had depth with Madison and McQuarters. We had depth because Webster was looking like a bust in 07...in 2012 Webster was suppose to be our best corner. We also short on depth because Reese believes in Terrell Thomas for some odd reason.

Buddy333
12-23-2012, 10:55 PM
that's always the answer when we don't want to face tougher realities.It's never the players fault.

G-MENBK
12-23-2012, 10:55 PM
that's always the answer when we don't want to face tougher realities.

Another second half swoon, lackluster performances by veteran players who don't get benched or called out due to supposed "loyalty" issues.

Coaching isn't only to blame, but they surely are not immune from criticism.

Redeyejedi
12-23-2012, 10:55 PM
that's always the answer when we don't want to face tougher realities.Its easier to have a scape goat but the reality is its the players

Mick Jagger
12-23-2012, 10:57 PM
that's always the answer when we don't want to face tougher realities.

Yes, the reality is that many of our starters are either (i) no longer productive and/or (ii) badly injured but still playing because the coaches don't trust the bench. Look at the Ravens today -- there were MANY non-starters playing and kicking our butt. And by the way, Ravens are going NOWHERE!

CDN_G-FAN
12-23-2012, 10:58 PM
It's never the players fault.

NEVER.

if you get blown out, the game plan stunk.

if you lose a tight game, its up to the coaches to do the little things right to win the close games.

if you come out flat, its up to the coaches light a fire.

if you come out undiciplined, its up to the coaches to stop the penalties.

if players are dropping balls and getting beat, well the coaches should yank these guys and put in back ups.

God, PLEASE let me work in an organization run by Giants fans. Unless i'm in the big chair, nothing i do will ever be my fault.

sweet gig.

domsgiants
12-23-2012, 10:58 PM
Tt is also a joke. But the coaches have to do something. Coe would have been better then webster today.

How do you explain dd going back to a starter when he sucks. His back up was better. And ab being hurt all year but we will. Stat him anyway even tho he is getting a qb killed today. Thats on the coaches.

G-MENBK
12-23-2012, 10:59 PM
NEVER.

if you get blown out, the game plan stunk.

if you lose a tight game, its up to the coaches to do the little things right to win the close games.

if you come out flat, its up to the coaches light a fire.

if you come out undiciplined, its up to the coaches to stop the penalties.

if players are dropping balls and getting beat, well the coaches should yank these guys and put in back ups.

God, PLEASE let me work in an organization run by Giants fans. Unless i'm in the big chair, nothing i do will ever be my fault.

sweet gig.

..Okay..

http://boards.giants.com/showthread.php?25858-Players-that-Need-to-Go

CDN_G-FAN
12-23-2012, 11:10 PM
..Okay..

http://boards.giants.com/showthread.php?25858-Players-that-Need-to-Go

half of all the threads on the first page are calling for the coaches to be fired.

sweet that there's 2 or 3 threads complaining about some of the players, but lets not pretend that a one scorched earth roster thread shows that there's balance in this discussion.

there's no easy solutions to our problems, which is 95% of the reason fans ask for a coaching change, its an easy, fast, change that magically fixes everything in their minds, because the alternative is to realize we have bigger issues, and who wants to do that?

domsgiants
12-23-2012, 11:13 PM
I like tc. But pf and kg need to go. Most of all pf

domsgiants
12-23-2012, 11:16 PM
What we need on offense is a new oline more then the coach but we need a new coach to just not as bad as the oline

G-MENBK
12-23-2012, 11:20 PM
half of all the threads on the first page are calling for the coaches to be fired.

sweet that there's 2 or 3 threads complaining about some of the players, but lets not pretend that a one scorched earth roster thread shows that there's balance in this discussion.

there's no easy solutions to our problems, which is 95% of the reason fans ask for a coaching change, its an easy, fast, change that magically fixes everything in their minds, because the alternative is to realize we have bigger issues, and who wants to do that?

Hey, there are others - like me - who want both players and coaches out of here. No one is disputing that there are players who are playing unmotivated, whose better days are far behind them..but you can't gloss over the second half swoons, the dumb play calling/schemes, who gets a short leash and who doesn't.

TheEnigma
12-23-2012, 11:21 PM
It's a mix of player and coaching fault. It isn't one extreme or the other. It's obvious some of our veterans are content to just go through with the motions and that some of our coaches don't put some of the players in the best situations to make the offense/defense work.

bearbryant
12-24-2012, 12:08 AM
I can't believe it. Watching this team for 16 games and even some of the games last season and no one watched the same thing. Nearly time aftyer time after time: this entire team underperformed, was inconsistent and treated the playing field like it was a game of checkers instead of a brutal game that requires constant energy, enthusiasm and committment. Some schmuck tells us we're stupid for calling for the coaches asses. Well, anyone who doesn't recognize the synergy between running the type of " good enough", play that both our coordinators plan for and the lack of consistent football and " lazy" play we deliver, those folks are the idiots, blind but still idiots. This type of uninspired play starts at the top and works its way down to the trenches. I can't wait till the "cap" reality hits this team next year and they're stuck in Kansas. Night Dorthy! As long as you have coughlin in this team nothing will change including the cancer that is here now!

giantsforce
12-24-2012, 12:32 AM
There's no way Coughlin can give an accurate explanation without throwing his players under the bus. I wish Coughlin would sit us all down and go through the All 22 with each of us. I wish he would give us the details on the scheme of the play and why it failed. I would love to be a fly on that wall during film session with this team.What scheme? As long as Coughlin has been the HC it has never been ANY game plan whatsoever. That's why you do not see half time adjustments. If you have nothing to adjust to, then you try the same old and tired play calling and hope your prayers will be answered. Coughlin never had control of this team and they player play hard only when they want to. As far as the film session goes they just show a 3 stooges film and they have a good time. As long as they have a great practice, Coughlin is happy.

byron
12-24-2012, 12:47 AM
I can't believe it. Watching this team for 16 games and even some of the games last season and no one watched the same thing. Nearly time aftyer time after time: this entire team underperformed, was inconsistent and treated the playing field like it was a game of checkers instead of a brutal game that requires constant energy, enthusiasm and committment. Some schmuck tells us we're stupid for calling for the coaches asses. Well, anyone who doesn't recognize the synergy between running the type of " good enough", play that both our coordinators plan for and the lack of consistent football and " lazy" play we deliver, those folks are the idiots, blind but still idiots. This type of uninspired play starts at the top and works its way down to the trenches. I can't wait till the "cap" reality hits this team next year and they're stuck in Kansas. Night Dorthy! As long as you have coughlin in this team nothing will change including the cancer that is here now! sadly I feel the same way

BuffyBlueII
12-24-2012, 12:55 AM
Right and if these guys dont wanna play hard like cw getting beat all year its the coaches job to put light a fire under their a** and make some kind of change and get cw out of the game and put a guy in that wants to play. But not this coaching staff the would rather keep him in and let him just keep getting beat. So yes its on the coaching

+1

BuffyBlueII
12-24-2012, 12:59 AM
Coughlin knows what problems we have on this team....He's to classy of a coach to throw his players under the bus. Its simple this team did not want to play and wanted an early vacation. 17 weeks is brutal and they were mentally fatigue, so they took a early vacation. Its sad when Tuck would not even suit up today but Suggs plays with a tore bicep and torn ACL.

We are down by 3 scores and Justin Tuck is on the sidelines laughing and kidding while Switchblade Ray is on the other sidelines motivating his guys and telling them not to let up. That is a big difference in leadership.

BuffyBlueII
12-24-2012, 01:02 AM
I can't believe it. Watching this team for 16 games and even some of the games last season and no one watched the same thing. Nearly time aftyer time after time: this entire team underperformed, was inconsistent and treated the playing field like it was a game of checkers instead of a brutal game that requires constant energy, enthusiasm and committment. Some schmuck tells us we're stupid for calling for the coaches asses. Well, anyone who doesn't recognize the synergy between running the type of " good enough", play that both our coordinators plan for and the lack of consistent football and " lazy" play we deliver, those folks are the idiots, blind but still idiots. This type of uninspired play starts at the top and works its way down to the trenches. I can't wait till the "cap" reality hits this team next year and they're stuck in Kansas. Night Dorthy! As long as you have coughlin in this team nothing will change including the cancer that is here now!

+1

nycsportzfan
12-24-2012, 01:03 AM
Not all of this is coaching. These guys are professionals making a lot of money. Getting guys to play hard shouldn't be the coaches job. They players should play hard because that is what their job is. Exactly! Not to mention, its a freaking awesome job! These prima donnas have some nerve crying about money and then half of em don't even play hard all the time!

At one point, there was what looked like a fumble and freaking hakeem nicks didn't even bother to try for it and it bounced around and we got it, all though it ended up being ruled incomplete anyways, but What the heck? Nicks as bad as he has been for us, can't even find it in his power to hustle for what seemed to be a fumble?


I've said this a million times, that the core vets that been around for both SB runs have lost luster and for some reason can't seem to think that backing into postseason isn't the way u try to make the playoffs, but only the way u do it if its the only way u can.. These guys come out and act like "ho hum, we have another wk to get it right", and just completely don't play! Its the core vets that gotta go and are slowley poisoning the young guys with there act! Get em outta here! Guys like Tuck, OSI, Webster, Diehl, Snee, Kiwi...etc All these guys are just complete non factors , almost to a embaressing degree! I mean, flat out invisible!

I think we must clean house of as many of the long tenured vets on this team and get new hungry guys around ELI, JPP, LINVAL, CRUZ, BEATTY, PRINCE, S.BROWN, D.WILSON, as our new core...

nycsportzfan
12-24-2012, 01:05 AM
+1+2

OX1
12-24-2012, 05:33 AM
What we need on offense is a new oline more then the coach but we need a new coach to just not as bad as the oline

We do need a new OC, but assuming he is staying, we need the mother of all O-lines to be successful from here on out.

giant-4-life
12-24-2012, 05:36 AM
That may be . . . but the coaching staff will NEVER admit it.

I'll tell you what; if we see that TC and the rest are gone.. the coaching staff won't have to admit jack squat! that'll speak volumes.