PDA

View Full Version : It took 7 years to develop Eli, and now rookie QBs play better than him.



Pages : [1] 2

SuperNYGiants
12-24-2012, 12:05 AM
I'm not saying Eli ain't good, he's decent, but he's not as elite as we all want to think he is, the rest of the QB talent in the league has jumped tremendously. I say we look for the next franchise QB sooner than later because Eli already has peaked in my opinion.

ELI_HOF_NYG
12-24-2012, 12:09 AM
I'm not saying Eli ain't good, he's decent, but he's not as elite as we all want to think he is, the rest of the QB talent in the league has jumped tremendously. I say we look for the next franchise QB sooner than later because Eli already has peaked in my opinion.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5hfYJsQAhl0

Manning
12-24-2012, 12:11 AM
This hurts the most. These rookie wonders are making it look ez to play QB. Eli makes it look almost impossible to play QB sometimes.

NYCDBS
12-24-2012, 12:13 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5hfYJsQAhl0

Hahahaha +1000 great post

Buddy333
12-24-2012, 12:14 AM
That's because the game is geared to be offensive friendly and there are no more truly elite defenses. Throw a mobile QB in the mix and these defense struggle.

gabriel_1
12-24-2012, 12:14 AM
Beautiful answer, just perfect. Eli has really gotten no help this year, neither from his offensive linemen in the second half of the season or for his receivers the WHOLE season I believe. Eli is still elite, no question, the Giants lost the spark. They always need the spark to get it going and unfortunately after winning the superbowl they couldn't regain it. Very unfortunate.

Marvelousmik
12-24-2012, 12:17 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5hfYJsQAhl0

i am so taking this and using it in another thread

Buddy333
12-24-2012, 12:18 AM
Rogers OL is probably as bad as it gets and he is probably going to be MVP again. Have to stop calling Eli elite. He is streaky. When he is on he is great. When he is not, he is not.

GiantWarfare
12-24-2012, 12:19 AM
Rogers OL is probably as bad as it gets and he is probably going to be MVP again. Have to stop calling Eli elite. He is streaky. When he is on he is great. When he is not, he is not.

Erratic sounds better...lol.

gabriel_1
12-24-2012, 12:23 AM
Rogers OL is probably as bad as it gets and he is probably going to be MVP again. Have to stop calling Eli elite. He is streaky. When he is on he is great. When he is not, he is not.

Rodgers runs a completely different offense than Eli does, his performance is not enough to call Eli not elite.

Buddy333
12-24-2012, 12:26 AM
Having the ups and downs that Eli has makes him not elite.

Jtuck
12-24-2012, 12:27 AM
Having the ups and downs that Eli has makes him not elite.

^^^^^^^^^

Jtuck
12-24-2012, 12:28 AM
This hurts the most. These rookie wonders are making it look ez to play QB. Eli makes it look almost impossible to play QB sometimes.

^^^^^^^^^^^

scoostraw
12-24-2012, 12:35 AM
I remember Theismann referring to Kent Graham as "streaky".

G-MENBK
12-24-2012, 12:38 AM
Question: when was the last time our receivers were getting as wide open as these receivers?

Here's another one: looking at the Ravens, when was the last time our receivers made ridiculous catches?

****, even looking at that Colts game: Luck "torpedoed" a pass to Reggie Wayne in the end zone, where Wayne not only had to jump up but he had to extend both arms up in order to catch it.

We have a receiver like that, but only one: Nicks. Too bad he was playing injured for most of the season.

BuffyBlueII
12-24-2012, 12:41 AM
Eli Manning played bad today but you know what? He didn’t go out there and quit like most of our defense did. As bad as Eli Manning was, he was not the main issue we had on that field today.

BuffyBlueII
12-24-2012, 12:44 AM
It didn’t take this time to “develop Eli Manning.” It took all this time for a piece of trash offense run by a piece of trash OC to bear fruition 2 out of 7 years in spite of the piece of trash offense put together by the piece of trash OC. It is a compliment to Eli Manning that he was able to make it work.
Get rid of our piece of trash OC now.

RagingBlue
12-24-2012, 12:59 AM
I'll take Eli any day of the week, because he makes throws that I've never seen when it counts the most. Our offense is so predictable. It's not his fault. The defenses just get ready to unload on him.

Cloud57
12-24-2012, 12:59 AM
Question: when was the last time our receivers were getting as wide open as these receivers?

Here's another one: looking at the Ravens, when was the last time our receivers made ridiculous catches?

****, even looking at that Colts game: Luck "torpedoed" a pass to Reggie Wayne in the end zone, where Wayne not only had to jump up but he had to extend both arms up in order to catch it.

We have a receiver like that, but only one: Nicks. Too bad he was playing injured for most of the season.You are absolutely right we have no physical receivers, all the teams have at least one, nicks was the closest thing to being a physical WR but not anymore. Our WRs are SOFT and can't win against physical corners. When was the last time a receiver made a catch and ran for yards? it rarely happens.

jgrangers11
12-24-2012, 01:00 AM
It didn’t take this time to “develop Eli Manning.” It took all this time for a piece of trash offense run by a piece of trash OC to bear fruition 2 out of 7 years in spite of the piece of trash offense put together by the piece of trash OC. It is a compliment to Eli Manning that he was able to make it work.
Get rid of our piece of trash OC now.

Just about every team, at least the ones with the best offenses, run some variation of a West Coast offense. The league is designed for offenses to flourish and they make it nearly impossible for a defense to react well to the offense. Despite all those advantages, the Giants still run an old offense that relies on the offense reacting to the defense. Our offensive gameplan is terrible and we need to bring in an OC who understands where the NFL is in 2012 and can run a more modern offense. Our offense has become way too predictable and it shows in the inability of our receivers to get consistent separation.

Cloud57
12-24-2012, 01:01 AM
I'm not saying Eli ain't good, he's decent, but he's not as elite as we all want to think he is, the rest of the QB talent in the league has jumped tremendously. I say we look for the next franchise QB sooner than later because Eli already has peaked in my opinion.Eli is just below elite and he's what I would consider an "old school" QB

G-MENBK
12-24-2012, 01:01 AM
You are absolutely right we have no physical receivers, all the teams have at least one, nicks was the closest thing to being a physical WR but not anymore. Our WRs are SOFT can can't win against physical corners. When was the last time a receiver made a catch and ran for yards? it rarely happens.

Nicks almost did that last week. If he wasn't injured, guarantee that he'd blow by everybody. Unfortunately, an Atlanta defender was able to trip him up.

RagingBlue
12-24-2012, 01:06 AM
Eli is just below elite and he's what I would consider an "old school" QB

I agree, I say Brees, Rogers, Peyton Manning, Brady and then Eli and and Big Ben just under elite.

dbreiden83080
12-24-2012, 01:08 AM
Yes let's cut our 31 year old 2 time SB MVP QB.. Makes sense..

TheBookOfEli
12-24-2012, 01:09 AM
I love Eli and he's our QB. In a few more years, like around 2016 we'll looking into a high draft pick for a mobile QB. Hopefully Gilbride will be gone by then.

dbreiden83080
12-24-2012, 01:10 AM
Keep talking **** about Eli non fans.. He will just come back and win another Superbowl..

Toadofsteel
12-24-2012, 01:11 AM
Eli is the last of our worries...

Cloud57
12-24-2012, 01:11 AM
I love Eli and he's our QB. In a few more years, like around 2016 we'll looking into a high draft pick for a mobile QB. Hopefully Gilbride will be gone by then.We'll take Vick as a FA lol

dbreiden83080
12-24-2012, 01:13 AM
Eli could possibly retire with 3 rings and you will have morons asking "Is he is a hall of famer" The fans today,

Holy ****..

Parademon
12-24-2012, 01:13 AM
Today's Defenses are easier to beat if you have an athletic, mobile QB, 2 things Eli isn't. Let's face it, the man is a statue in the pocket & has 2 left feet & rarely rolls out & forget about him running for a 1st down on even 3rd & short let alone 3rd & long like Cam, RG3, Romo, Russel Wilson, Kapernik & Luck can do.

Our next QB has to fit that mold as that is the QB of the future in the NFL IMO. When the recievers are covered & the Oline protection has broken down, it would be nice if we had a QB that could scramble & make some time for the recievers to get open or even run it for the 1st down himself.

Sadly, we don't have that in Eli. He's a classic pocket passer & cannot improvise like so many other young QBs coming into the NFL today can.

G-MENBK
12-24-2012, 01:14 AM
Today's Defenses are easier to beat if you have an athletic, mobile QB, 2 things Eli isn't. Let's face it, the man is a statue in the pocket & has 2 left feet & rarely rolls out & forget about him running for a 1st down on even 3rd & short let alone 3rd & long like Cam, RG3, Romo, Russel Wilson, Kapernik & Luck can do.

Our next QB has to fit that mold as that is the QB of the future in the NFL IMO. When the recievers are covered & the Oline protection has broken down, it would be nice if we had a QB that could scramble & make some time for the recievers to get open or even run it for the 1st down himself.

Sadly, we don't have that in Eli. He's a classic pocket passer & cannot improvise like so many other young QBs coming into the NFL today can.

Wake me up when one of those QBs win something relevant in the postseason.

dbreiden83080
12-24-2012, 01:15 AM
Today's Defenses are easier to beat if you have an athletic,mobile QB,the NFL today can.

They don't last.. The league will always be ruled by pocket passers.. The athletic QB's will always be flash in the pans..

BuffyBlueII
12-24-2012, 01:15 AM
Eli is the last of our worries...

+1

Toadofsteel
12-24-2012, 01:17 AM
Wake me up when one of those QBs win something relevant in the postseason.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwsoolAPhI1qljnego1_500.jpg

Not a "running" QB, but definitely mobile...

BuffyBlueII
12-24-2012, 01:18 AM
Today's Defenses are easier to beat if you have an athletic, mobile QB, 2 things Eli isn't. Let's face it, the man is a statue in the pocket & has 2 left feet & rarely rolls out & forget about him running for a 1st down on even 3rd & short let alone 3rd & long like Cam, RG3, Romo, Russel Wilson, Kapernik & Luck can do.

I think folks were also claiming that D-Mac, Randall Cunningham, Dante Culpeper, Mike Vick etc...... were the wave of the future for QBs in NFL. How many SuperBowls did those guys win?

dbreiden83080
12-24-2012, 01:18 AM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwsoolAPhI1qljnego1_500.jpg

Not a "running" QB, but definitely mobile...

And he got outplayed by Eli in the playoffs last year..

dbreiden83080
12-24-2012, 01:20 AM
I think folks were also claiming that D-Mac, Randall Cunningham, Dante Culpeper, Mike Vick etc...... were the wave of the future for QBs in NFL. How many SuperBowls did those guys win?

It is all about staying healthy.. The mobile QB's never will. In 5 years RG 3 will either be the best QB in the league or Vick part 2..

G-MENBK
12-24-2012, 01:21 AM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwsoolAPhI1qljnego1_500.jpg

Not a "running" QB, but definitely mobile...

Rodgers is more of an exception to the rule, especially since he posses an arm canon and has dependable receivers.

Parademon
12-24-2012, 01:24 AM
Wake me up when one of those QBs win something relevant in the postseason.

Asides from the 2 SB seasons, the G-men have been 1 & done the other 3 times they made the playoffs. 3 of the 6 QBs I mentioned have their teams in the playoffs. and depending on who wins next Sunday night Romo or RG3 will make it 4 mobile QBs in the playoffs this yr.

I'm just stating that Eli can only make plays with his arm while the others can make plays with both their arms & legs. With Eli, if the play breaks down, he either throws it away or takes a sack.

G-MENBK
12-24-2012, 01:33 AM
Asides from the 2 SB seasons, the G-men have been 1 & done the other 3 times they made the playoffs. 3 of the 6 QBs I mentioned have their teams in the playoffs. and depending on who wins next Sunday night Romo or RG3 will make it 4 mobile QBs in the playoffs this yr.

I'm just stating that Eli can only make plays with his arm while the others can make plays with both their arms & legs. With Eli, if the play breaks down, he either throws it away or takes a sack.

Great. Won't be the last time a mobile QB gets into the playoffs. What they do in those playoffs is a different matter.

ELI_HOF_NYG
12-24-2012, 01:36 AM
i am so taking this and using it in another thread

please do.

Jtuck
12-24-2012, 01:39 AM
Today's Defenses are easier to beat if you have an athletic, mobile QB, 2 things Eli isn't. Let's face it, the man is a statue in the pocket & has 2 left feet & rarely rolls out & forget about him running for a 1st down on even 3rd & short let alone 3rd & long like Cam, RG3, Romo, Russel Wilson, Kapernik & Luck can do.

Our next QB has to fit that mold as that is the QB of the future in the NFL IMO. When the recievers are covered & the Oline protection has broken down, it would be nice if we had a QB that could scramble & make some time for the recievers to get open or even run it for the 1st down himself.

Sadly, we don't have that in Eli. He's a classic pocket passer & cannot improvise like so many other young QBs coming into the NFL today can.

This right here!!!!!

Harooni
12-24-2012, 01:40 AM
i think we tend to forget that Eli is deadly in the 2min offense. that is what makes him above avg. i know im guilty of forgetting it when he goes through his slumps.

Toadofsteel
12-24-2012, 01:41 AM
i think we tend to forget that Eli is deadly in the 2min offense. that is what makes him above avg. i know im guilty of forgetting it when he goes through his slumps.

So why does Killdrive not let eli go no huddle at will? Is he afraid that Eli would make him superfluous or something?

Flip Empty
12-24-2012, 01:42 AM
And he got outplayed by Eli in the playoffs last year..

Quarterbacks don't face each other. Rodgers got outplayed by Perry Fewell.

And anyway, the point was that mobile QBs do find success in this league.

GMEN86900711
12-24-2012, 01:56 AM
This hurts the most. These rookie wonders are making it look ez to play QB. Eli makes it look almost impossible to play QB sometimes.

Well, it can be nearly impossible when the QB is being pressured on nearly every play.

dbreiden83080
12-24-2012, 02:10 AM
Quarterbacks don't face each other. Rodgers got outplayed by Perry Fewell.

And anyway, the point was that mobile QBs do find success in this league.

So when Eli slumped this year all credit to the defense he faced.. When you are 1 year removed from a SB win the next year is a pass.. At least it should be.. Selfish fans.. God Marino stuffed the stat sheet his whole career and never won ****..

TrueBlue10
12-24-2012, 02:17 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5hfYJsQAhl0


Hahahaha +1000 great post

I'll add another 1000 to that!

NYGFaninILL
12-24-2012, 02:23 AM
Rogers OL is probably as bad as it gets and he is probably going to be MVP again. Have to stop calling Eli elite. He is streaky. When he is on he is great. When he is not, he is not.

...and how many different weapons does Rodgers have?

Nelson, Jones, Cobb, Jennings, Finley..

Eli?

Cruz and a 60% Nicks

Flip Empty
12-24-2012, 02:43 AM
So when Eli slumped this year all credit to the defense he faced.. When you are 1 year removed from a SB win the next year is a pass.. At least it should be.. Selfish fans.. God Marino stuffed the stat sheet his whole career and never won ****..
Absolutely. Look at the Falcons game - Asante Samuel in particular, he was in the Giants' playbook the entire game.

No, there is no pass in sport. You're as good as your last game. Right now, Eli and the rest of that sorry group are absolute rock bottom. Season on the line and you can only score 14 points in two games? Unnacceptable.

Mlerman17
12-24-2012, 02:45 AM
I am beginning to hate all of these spoiled giants fans who turn on their players. How can u guys possibly complain and talk $hiit about a qb that won us two super bowls..just look how many franchises have never won one let alone 2 in 5 years. Everyone just needs to stop panicking and calm down. You cannot win a sb every year, so either we get lucky and make the playoffs next week or jerry reese and co. will just have to take the necessary steps to get us back next year through the drafts or fa. Eli is a great qb and I believe he will put in the necessary work to fix the offense and get it back to the dominant level it was last year. Coaching changes on O and D should be at the top of the list imo.

Flip Empty
12-24-2012, 02:46 AM
...and how many different weapons does Rodgers have?

Nelson, Jones, Cobb, Jennings, Finley..

Eli?

Cruz and a 60% Nicks
You discredited your own post when you called Finley a "weapon".

BuffyBlueII
12-24-2012, 03:31 AM
Quarterbacks don't face each other. Rodgers got outplayed by Perry Fewell.

And anyway, the point was that mobile QBs do find success in this league.

However, the point has been made and made well, that the “classic” pocket passer is still the way to go if you want to win SuperBowls and enjoy success over a significant length of time.

Flip Empty
12-24-2012, 03:40 AM
However, the point has been made and made well, that the “classic” pocket passer is still the way to go if you want to win SuperBowls and enjoy success over a significant length of time.
I'm not sure the sample size is large enough to make that judgement with any sort of accuracy.

G-MENBK
12-24-2012, 03:46 AM
I'm not sure the sample size is large enough to make that judgement with any sort of accuracy.

Of the mobile QBs, how many of them made it to the Super Bowl? Forget winning it because there is a noticeable slant towards one category of QB.

BuffyBlueII
12-24-2012, 03:47 AM
I'm not sure the sample size is large enough to make that judgement with any sort of accuracy.

Okay. How many SuperBowls did D-Mac win? How many SuperBowls has Mike Vick won? How many SuperBowls has Dante Culpepper won?

Out of the 46 SuperBowls played, only three have been won by very mobile QBs but the argument can be made that those QBs are way more than just very mobile ones but actually great pocket passers too. You have Steve Young, Aaron Rodgers and Jeff Hostetler.

I think it is safe to make that judgement considering if you just take the past decade and look at the SuperBowls that were won. 2 by Ben Rothlisberger. 1 by Drew Brees. 1 by Peyton Manning. 2 by Eli Manning. 3 by Tom Brady. 9 out 10 of the past SuperBowls were won by “pocket passers.” This is something that should not have happenned if there was any veracity to the argument about “QB of the future” that is going around now because that was the same argument in the early 90s.

Flip Empty
12-24-2012, 03:48 AM
Of the mobile QBs, how many of them made it to the Super Bowl? Forget winning it because there is a noticeable slant towards one category of QB.
That's what I mean What's the split between mobile and immobile starting QBs? I honestly have no idea.

BuffyBlueII
12-24-2012, 03:50 AM
That's what I mean What's the split between mobile and immobile starting QBs? I honestly have no idea.

It doesn’t really matter because the starting QBs are the starting QBs. Of course you want your QB to be able to move but there is a difference between a guy that can move when he needs to like Big Ben or Drew Brees or guys that rely on their running ability for a huge part of their game such as Mike Vick and Roach With Braids.

OX1
12-24-2012, 05:02 AM
Of the mobile QBs, how many of them made it to the Super Bowl? Forget winning it because there is a noticeable slant towards one category of QB.

When the league has at least 50% mobile QB's for more than 5 years, then you will have an answer.
Until then, making any claim on mobile QB's vs SB's is just silly.........................

giantsfan420
12-24-2012, 05:06 AM
Lmfao. These rookies r running offenses completely unlike ours. Their OCs designed qb friendly offenses. Not one rookie qb not even luck would be able to run this offense better than Eli. Like my goodness does no one understand football?

giantsfan420
12-24-2012, 05:11 AM
You discredited your own post when you called Finley a "weapon". if u believe Finley isn't a damn good weapon then u shouldn't question anyone's football understanding bc u don't have a clue urself

Flip Empty
12-24-2012, 05:55 AM
if u believe Finley isn't a damn good weapon then u shouldn't question anyone's football understanding bc u don't have a clue urself
have you watched the Packers this season? Finley has been horrible. If a player is incompatible with his quarterback, he can't be a weapon.
The poster also brought up Greg Jennings - the same Greg Jennings who's been injured for the majority of the season.

Sarcasman
12-24-2012, 11:28 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5hfYJsQAhl0


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Redeyejedi
12-24-2012, 11:31 AM
Eli Manning played bad today but you know what? He didn’t go out there and quit like most of our defense did. As bad as Eli Manning was, he was not the main issue we had on that field today.No he was the main reason they lost in Atlanta though

Redeyejedi
12-24-2012, 11:33 AM
Just about every team, at least the ones with the best offenses, run some variation of a West Coast offense. The league is designed for offenses to flourish and they make it nearly impossible for a defense to react well to the offense. Despite all those advantages, the Giants still run an old offense that relies on the offense reacting to the defense. Our offensive gameplan is terrible and we need to bring in an OC who understands where the NFL is in 2012 and can run a more modern offense. Our offense has become way too predictable and it shows in the inability of our receivers to get consistent separation. Eli isnt mobile enough to run the offenses you guys want to see.

BuffyBlueII
12-24-2012, 11:40 AM
if u believe Finley isn't a damn good weapon then u shouldn't question anyone's football understanding bc u don't have a clue urself
+1

BuffyBlueII
12-24-2012, 11:44 AM
Lmfao. These rookies r running offenses completely unlike ours. Their OCs designed qb friendly offenses. Not one rookie qb not even luck would be able to run this offense better than Eli. Like my goodness does no one understand football?

This offense that we have should not be run by any QB. It is a miserable offensive scheme. Our garbage OC needs to go. Now.

Other teams draft a QB in the 1st round and tailor their system around him. We trade the house and expect our QB that we drafted after trading the house to completely change his game and adapt to a system that goes completely away from his strengths.

Our OC is a piece of trash. He is a joke.

ny06
12-24-2012, 11:46 AM
I know I'm beating a dead horse, and may have no merritt with the topic of discussion. But like it or not, Eli has HELPED this franchise win 2 super bowls in 5 years. There are fan bases that would take Eli's inconsistency if it meant 2 super bowls.

Also these rookie qb's are having a solid season, but let's not pretend that they're not getting plenty of help from their teammates.
RGIII - Alfred Morris
Andrew Luck - Reggie Wayne
Russell Wilson - Marshawn Lynch

BuffyBlueII
12-24-2012, 11:46 AM
No he was the main reason they lost in Atlanta though

I didn’t say he wasn’t the reason because he is the main reason. He is the most important player on this team and we need him to not just be good but super good in order to win. Our dog**** defense demands that he be ELIte every single ****in game or we lose most of the time. However, he did not lay down like a good chunk of our defense and our offensive line did.

brad
12-24-2012, 11:47 AM
Eli isnt mobile enough to run the offenses you guys want to see.

A west coast offense doesn't require a mobile QB... last time I checked, no one ever mistook Montana for Cunningham.

gumby74
12-24-2012, 11:49 AM
2011 was a fluke. But god Eli was terrible this year. Good thing is he's due for a good year next year. Haha. 2009 - good. 2010 - bad - 2011 - good. 2012 - bad.

gumby74
12-24-2012, 11:50 AM
A west coast offense doesn't require a mobile QB... last time I checked, no one ever mistook Montana for Cunningham.

Question is does Eli have the accuracy to suceed in a West Coast offense.

mike kennedy
12-24-2012, 11:52 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5hfYJsQAhl0

Made my morning!

Sarcasman
12-24-2012, 11:52 AM
Eli isnt mobile enough to run the offenses you guys want to see.


I don't want to see that offense. I've seen it; it doesn't often win championships.

Hooligans
12-24-2012, 11:52 AM
I'm not saying Eli ain't good, he's decent, but he's not as elite as we all want to think he is, the rest of the QB talent in the league has jumped tremendously. I say we look for the next franchise QB sooner than later because Eli already has peaked in my opinion.

Not only has Eli peaked, he is already on a steady decline. RG III and Andrew Luck are both better, and both taking their teams to the plauyoffs in their rookie Year! The Colts and the Redskins were horrible last year, but the addition of these two Franchise QBs has put their respective teams back into the playoffs....that is what elite QBs do.....QBs that aren't elite finish the season 2-6 in the last 8 games.

ny06
12-24-2012, 11:54 AM
Not only has Eli peaked, he is already on a steady decline. RG III and Andrew Luck are both better, and both taking their teams to the plauyoffs in their rookie Year! The Colts and the Redskins were horrible last year, but the addition of these two Franchise QBs has put their respective teams back into the playoffs....that is what elite QBs do.....QBs that aren't elite finish the season 2-6 in the last 8 games.
Are you implying two rookie qb's are elite?

Sarcasman
12-24-2012, 11:55 AM
Are you implying two rookie qb's are elite?

Don't feed the trolls, man.

Hooligans
12-24-2012, 11:56 AM
Are you implying two rookie qb's are elite?

I am not "implying" it, I am stating it - Luck and RG III are elite-there is no question about that.

Hooligans
12-24-2012, 11:57 AM
Don't feed the trolls, man.

I see..ignore and pretend it isn't true.

brad
12-24-2012, 11:59 AM
Question is does Eli have the accuracy to suceed in a West Coast offense.

At times... I think the better question would be, are the offensive problems due to Eli or that defenses have learned to play against the scheme. Then you need to determine if the scheme can be adjusted or if it needs to be completely tossed out and replaced with another. Personally, I believe that players quit, they stopped believing in the system and their ability to counter what defenses were doing. I don't believe that every player on this team suddenly went from good to horrible, which leaves only one conclusion, they aren't buying into the system.

Is Eli a good QB, absolutely, we have seen him do it in the past. Is he capable of making all the throws in a west coast offense? They primarily use a short quick pass, which has a much higher percentage of completion than throwing 20 yards down-field, so I would lean toward believing that it could only improve his play. I don't know that they need to completely change the offensive scheme, but implementing some elements of the west coast offense would certainly help make them more consistent.

Marvelousmik
12-24-2012, 11:59 AM
...and how many different weapons does Rodgers have?

Nelson, Jones, Cobb, Jennings, Finley..

Eli?

Cruz and Nicks, bennett, wilson, randel

fixed

Sarcasman
12-24-2012, 12:01 PM
I see..ignore and pretend it isn't true.


Should something intelligent get posted - on purpose or inadvertently - under your u/n, it may be response worthy. Haven't seen any evidence of that yet.

brad
12-24-2012, 12:02 PM
I am not "implying" it, I am stating it - Luck and RG III are elite-there is no question about that.

"Elite" is a term that is thrown around far too easily today. Rookies aren't elite, I don't care what they do in one year, elite is being able to perform week in and week out, year after year. Elite is Payton, Montana, or Marino... unless you have some other category for them. Because putting Luck and RG3 in the same sentence as those guys is just disrespectful.

By your definition, Cam Newton would be called elite based off his first year, how did that work out this year?

Cloud57
12-24-2012, 12:02 PM
Could it be that the reason Eli took 7 years to develop is because he's slow?

gumby74
12-24-2012, 12:04 PM
Question is does Eli have the accuracy to suceed in a West Coast offense.


At times... I think the better question would be, are the offensive problems due to Eli or that defenses have learned to play against the scheme. Then you need to determine if the scheme can be adjusted or if it needs to be completely tossed out and replaced with another. Personally, I believe that players quit, they stopped believing in the system and their ability to counter what defenses were doing. I don't believe that every player on this team suddenly went from good to horrible, which leaves only one conclusion, they aren't buying into the system.

Is Eli a good QB, absolutely, we have seen him do it in the past. Is he capable of making all the throws in a west coast offense? They primarily use a short quick pass, which has a much higher percentage of completion than throwing 20 yards down-field, so I would lean toward believing that it could only improve his play. I don't know that they need to completely change the offensive scheme, but implementing some elements of the west coast offense would certainly help make them more consistent.

I don't think Eli is the problem, but being efficient isn't exactly his specialty. To maximize the west coast offense, hitting a WR in stride is key. Eli's accuracy isn't always there. So instead of a gain of 12 yards, we could very well only get 4. But I'd be willing to give it a try. But, if we're going to insist on going vertical every play, at last put some monsters up front to protect him.

G-MENBK
12-24-2012, 12:04 PM
fixed

Wilson and Randle?

Seriously?!

gumby74
12-24-2012, 12:05 PM
Could it be that that the reason Eli took 7 years to develop is because he's slow? To be honest, the rate at which the rookies are picking up the NFL game, it is making Eli look really bad.

brad
12-24-2012, 12:05 PM
I don't want to see that offense. I've seen it; it doesn't often win championships.

You may have missed some of the thread, they were discussing the west coast offense. That offense has probably won more SBs in the past 30 years than any other offense you can possibly think of!

ny06
12-24-2012, 12:15 PM
I am not "implying" it, I am stating it - Luck and RG III are elite-there is no question about that.
First I hate the whole term "elite" Whoever coined the phrase just did it to start controversy. Second, let’s sit back for just a minute and look at why these rookie qb's are having solid seasons. The coaching staffs put these young qb's in position to succeed. Mike Shanahan brought the Baylor offense to the Redskins, he stuck with the zone blocking scheme that seems to make 1,000 yard rushers every year.

Now look at the Colts and Andrew Luck, short intermediate passes, get the ball out quick, play to the strengths not the weaknesses.
Now we look at R. Wilson of the Seahawks, must be fun for a rookie qb to be able to hand the ball off to Marshawn Lynch, defenses have to put 7-8 men in the box on almost every snap, so of course it makes the game much easier for Wilson to make plays when he has to.

Overall, I'm not taking anything away from these rookie qb's. They compared this rookie class to the 04 class before they even took a NFL snap, so everyone knew they had plenty of talent. But what's making them win and have success in this league so early in their careers is that the coaching staffs put them in position to do so. The true test for these rookie qb's will be next year and the year after. When opposing defenses have whole season of film on them
.

Jtuck
12-24-2012, 12:16 PM
Could it be that the reason Eli took 7 years to develop is because he's slow?

I see somebody picked it up!

Sarcasman
12-24-2012, 12:17 PM
You may have missed some of the thread, they were discussing the west coast offense. That offense has probably won more SBs in the past 30 years than any other offense you can possibly think of!

Got it, thanks. Yeah, I have zero interest in the Giants moving to that offense with this personnel.

Marvelousmik
12-24-2012, 12:23 PM
...and how many different weapons does Rodgers have?

Nelson, Jones, Cobb, Jennings, Finley..

Eli?

Cruz, Nicks, hixon and bennett

fixed..

This season Bennett has been more productive than finley. nicks has been more productive than nelson. And cruz has been more productive than cobb. Jones has been more productive than hixon. nice try though.

But It's posts like these that make me respect rodgers even more. Jennings missed half the year and just came back. He admit he needs to get back in shape and in game speed. and nelson has missed 4 games and counting. No matter who rodgers has as a receiver, they are considered weapons. Lol you could take brad smith and put him on the packers and people will consider him a dangerous weapon.

You know why rodgers always has guys open? The packers spread defenses out forcing teams to rush 4 and he buys time in the pocket with his mobility and forces defenses to play zone because if you turn your back on him you get scorched with the run. its a system that fits him well and he is able to strive in it in spite of the Line he has. Stop trying to compare this guy With Eli. The only QB who is better than him right now is brady. I dont care about past accomplishments by peyton. Peyton is a legend and he will go down as one of the best of all time. But right "Now Rodgers is the man.

jgrangers11
12-24-2012, 12:25 PM
Eli isnt mobile enough to run the offenses you guys want to see.

I'm asking for a Patriots style offense where we spread the field and work quickly. Brady doesn't exactly have breakaway speed. The point of those offenses is to get the ball out of the hands of the QB as quickly as possible. In an era where every team tries to build their defense around a great pass rush, that should be the goal. The Giants don't seem to have any quick (or easy) throws in the playbook. When was the last time we ran a quick slant? A screen pass that wasn't on 3rd and 19? We haven't had our running backs significantly involved in the passing game since Tiki was here. Teams like the Packers, Patriots and Saints have masterful play design. They do an excellent job of creating mismatches for their weapons. They're constantly creating situations where receivers aren't just open but wide open. How often do you see that from the Giants?

BuffyBlueII
12-24-2012, 12:26 PM
fixed..

Bennett and nicks has been more productive than finley and nelson this season. And cruz has been more productive than cobb. Jones has been more productive than hixon. nice try though.

But It's posts like these that make me respect rodgers even more. Jennings missed half the year and just came back. He admit he needs to get back in shape and in game speed. and nelson has missed 4 games and counting. No matter who rodgers has as a receiver, they are considered weapons. Lol you could take brad smith and put him on the packers and people will consider him a dangerous weapon.

You know why rodgers always has guys open? The packers spread defenses out forcing teams to rush 4 and he buys time in the pocket with his mobility and forces defenses to play zone because if you turn your back on him you get scorched with the run. its a system that fits him well and he is able to strive in it in spite of the Line he has. Stop trying to compare this guy With Eli. The only QB who is better than him right now is brady. I dont care about past accomplishments by peyton. Peyton is a legend and he will go down as one of the best of all time. But right "Now Rodgers is the man.

Rodger has had those personnel for how long?

Right now, Peyton and Tom still lay claim to being “The Man” but teams are seeming to forget about The Pack right now and that can be dangerous and I would not be surprised if Aaron Rodgers does lead them to SuperBowl this year although I don’t think any team is going to stop Denver or NE in the big dance this time around.

brad
12-24-2012, 12:32 PM
Got it, thanks. Yeah, I have zero interest in the Giants moving to that offense with this personnel.

LOL, well that was an insightful post, got it, thanks.

The biggest complaint most on this board has is that the O-line isn't giving Eli time to throw, considering how long the plays take to develop, it is a valid argument. How is going to a 3-4 step drop and getting the ball out faster a bad thing? How is simplifying the offense to a point that it allows less experienced receivers get involved in the game earlier something you wouldn't be for?

Marvelousmik
12-24-2012, 12:35 PM
Rodger has had those personnel for how long?

one season. Peyton just joined the broncos this year...

Oh wait. sorry. I didnt noticed you were talking about rodgers. umm, he has had a couple of those guys for a while.



Right now, Peyton and Tom still lay claim to being “The Man” but teams are seeming to forget about The Pack right now

nah i dont think teams are forgetting about them. maybe some fans are. But players and coaches know who the packers are. They started off shaky but they are right on track.

GameTime
12-24-2012, 12:37 PM
I'm not saying Eli ain't good, he's decent, but he's not as elite as we all want to think he is, the rest of the QB talent in the league has jumped tremendously. I say we look for the next franchise QB sooner than later because Eli already has peaked in my opinion.
Eli part a of a failing offense....plain and simple. Its way more then him

giantsfan420
12-24-2012, 12:43 PM
To be honest, the rate at which the rookies are picking up the NFL game, it is making Eli look really bad.LMFAO!

BJacobs aka The Problem
12-24-2012, 12:46 PM
I'm not saying Eli ain't good, he's decent, but he's not as elite as we all want to think he is, the rest of the QB talent in the league has jumped tremendously. I say we look for the next franchise QB sooner than later because Eli already has peaked in my opinion.

After reading this...I cannot bring myself to read anything further in this thread. I was going to flame you but then I realized that you may be suffering from some syndrome that may cause a lack of oxygen to the brain.

I will say this though, there was a point during this season that Eli had his name thrown in some conversations of possibly being a MVP candidate this year. It wasn't until teams were able to effectively able to apply significant pressure(and when I say pressure, I mean give him absolutely no time to throw the ball) that Eli Manning's performance as a quarterback took a hit. Couple that with an offensive coordinator who's game day plans could be considered offensive in it self and you end up with quarterback play that is not exactly what one would call superb.

To say that the NY Giants should start looking for a replacement for a Superbowl MVP quarterback who has set franchise and league records, sooner than later while he is in the prime of his career is one of the dumbest things I think I have ever heard...and I work in IT.

NYtoSanDiego
12-24-2012, 12:52 PM
Just about every team, at least the ones with the best offenses, run some variation of a West Coast offense. The league is designed for offenses to flourish and they make it nearly impossible for a defense to react well to the offense. Despite all those advantages, the Giants still run an old offense that relies on the offense reacting to the defense. Our offensive gameplan is terrible and we need to bring in an OC who understands where the NFL is in 2012 and can run a more modern offense. Our offense has become way too predictable and it shows in the inability of our receivers to get consistent separation.

in actuallity there are more offenses now that run a similar offense to gilbrides Streak and Read Principle Offense. the colts OC said in S.I. that he didn't want luck running a west coast offense like he did in stanford because there were no site adjustments to the defense for the receivers. so if you want a modern day offense you don't want a west coast offense but more like the patriots, giants, saints, bucs, cowboys, falcons, and while the personel and concepts how to attack a defense may look different from team to team the one thing they all share is the site adjustments for all the potential receivers and the qb calling out the protection calls.


to me there's only three offensive systems out there. the west coast that's run by the packers, niners, eagles, seahawks, vikings. the coryell which is used by the chargers, ravens, steelers, bears, bengals and a streak and read/ron erhardt offense that's used today by the giants, patriots, saints, falcons, cowboys.

TroyArcher
12-24-2012, 01:03 PM
I'm not saying Eli ain't good, he's decent, but he's not as elite as we all want to think he is, the rest of the QB talent in the league has jumped tremendously. I say we look for the next franchise QB sooner than later because Eli already has peaked in my opinion.

I have a feeling you will be eating your words in the future. Give Eli a decent O-line and some WR's who can get open and that hold onto the ball and he will lead the team to success.

BuffyBlueII
12-24-2012, 01:04 PM
Granted, Aaron Rodgers has not been at Green Bay the entire time these guys have been. However, these weapons have been together for awhile with the exception of Cobb but even he has been there for more than 1 year. Here is how long they have been there. Nelson since 2008. Jennings since 2006. Finley since 2008. Cobb since 2011. Jones since 2007. Donald Driver since 1999.

Now, Aaron Rodgers went to The Pack in 2005 so he has had plenty of time and regularity with these guys. it does factor in to how he performs. To state that it wouldn’t is ridiculous.

Buddy333
12-24-2012, 01:09 PM
Lets stop mentioning Rogers. He is elite and may be the MVP again this year.

jgrangers11
12-24-2012, 01:12 PM
in actuallity there are more offenses now that run a similar offense to gilbrides Streak and Read Principle Offense. the colts OC said in S.I. that he didn't want luck running a west coast offense like he did in stanford because there were no site adjustments to the defense for the receivers. so if you want a modern day offense you don't want a west coast offense but more like the patriots, giants, saints, bucs, cowboys, falcons, and while the personel and concepts how to attack a defense may look different from team to team the one thing they all share is the site adjustments for all the potential receivers and the qb calling out the protection calls.


to me there's only three offensive systems out there. the west coast that's run by the packers, niners, eagles, seahawks, vikings. the coryell which is used by the chargers, ravens, steelers, bears, bengals and a streak and read/ron erhardt offense that's used today by the giants, patriots, saints, falcons, cowboys.

I honestly didn't realize that. I thought more teams ran the West Coast. That said, I still think the Giants can learn from the Patriots in the fact that they speed up the game and do a much better job of creating mismatches and using their weapons. I just notice that their players are constantly more wide open than ours are.

Marvelousmik
12-24-2012, 01:22 PM
Lets stop mentioning Rogers. He is elite and may be the MVP again this year.

+1

JB456
12-24-2012, 01:24 PM
Quarterbacks don't face each other. Rodgers got outplayed by Perry Fewell.

And anyway, the point was that mobile QBs do find success in this league.


There is a big difference between a running quarter back and a mobile qb. That gimmick offense down in Washington won't win anything and rgIII will have major health concerns if they don't adjust it.

Marvelousmik
12-24-2012, 01:24 PM
Granted, Aaron Rodgers has not been at Green Bay the entire time these guys have been. However, these weapons have been together for awhile with the exception of Cobb but even he has been there for more than 1 year. Here is how long they have been there. Nelson since 2008. Jennings since 2006. Finley since 2008. Cobb since 2011. Jones since 2007. Donald Driver since 1999.

Now, Aaron Rodgers went to The Pack in 2005 so he has had plenty of time and regularity with these guys. it does factor in to how he performs. To state that it wouldn’t is ridiculous.

good thing peyton, rg3, russel wilson, andrew luck, and Kaepernick (http://www.nfl.com/players/profile?id=00-0027974) are all playing with the same guys within their system for a long time.

Oh wait.


The 2 most productive guys between the 2 teams are cobb and cruz (both only in their second full season......ENough with the excuses please!!! lol. act like theres gum in your hair. "cut it out"

Buddy333
12-24-2012, 01:27 PM
There is a big difference between a running quarter back and a mobile qb. That gimmick offense down in Washington won't win anything and rgIII will have major health concerns if they don't adjust it.Three mobile rookie QB's outplayed Eli this year. They are all going to the playoffs too.

PittGiants
12-24-2012, 01:30 PM
Beautiful answer, just perfect. Eli has really gotten no help this year, neither from his offensive linemen in the second half of the season or for his receivers the WHOLE season I believe. Eli is still elite, no question, the Giants lost the spark. They always need the spark to get it going and unfortunately after winning the superbowl they couldn't regain it. Very unfortunate.

Replace the O line as well as the rest of the team.

NYtoSanDiego
12-24-2012, 01:31 PM
I'm asking for a Patriots style offense where we spread the field and work quickly. Brady doesn't exactly have breakaway speed. The point of those offenses is to get the ball out of the hands of the QB as quickly as possible. In an era where every team tries to build their defense around a great pass rush, that should be the goal. The Giants don't seem to have any quick (or easy) throws in the playbook. When was the last time we ran a quick slant? A screen pass that wasn't on 3rd and 19? We haven't had our running backs significantly involved in the passing game since Tiki was here. Teams like the Packers, Patriots and Saints have masterful play design. They do an excellent job of creating mismatches for their weapons. They're constantly creating situations where receivers aren't just open but wide open. How often do you see that from the Giants?

i agree somewhat. the giants could use a little more empty sets and when they do hopefully they don't throw a screen off it which is what they do 90% of the time when they go empty. if they attacked the field within that 5-20yd window eli would have better comp% numbers i know, but gilbride likes to attack vertically.

he does need to be a little more flexible, there are games where the giants looks more like w.c.o. with their three and five step drops with slants and hooks but that's rare. 90% of the time i see wr running a go route then breaking it off for a hook or comeback route to the sideline, how many times have you seen cruz, nicks and hixon do that in the past two years? if the safety is helping up top and is cheating towards the sideline to break on the throw how many times do you see them change that go route with an option for a comeback into a deep in that's about 15yds down the field, this is-was a nicks specialty. when he's healthy you just see him sell the go or hook then plant and burst for the deep in where eli throws it high and you see nicks stretch both arms like he's going for a rebound. eli did this with plax as well. with cruz its a little easier he runs a lot of routes in the middle and sitting in open spots, or he'll run slants and a specialty of his is the switch routes that gilbride likes to run. if its man cruz continues to run the wheel route and he did that this year against the bucs or was that bennett, if its zone he will sit it about 5-10yds and turn around and wait for the ball.

this is where we and i miss mario. he wasn't brightest but man he was the best at running go and post routes which the defense had to account for. that's why i said in my post about OC and DC is not the problem but health and missing a few players. this offense or personel works best when you have three wr healthy but also knowing gilbrides site adjustment concepts. if only two is working and not the 3rd its not as productive as when all three are healthy and producing. yes, we had some moments with hixon, barden and randle taking that role moreso hixon but he isn't as explosive as mario. i just hope that randle becomes that player because the speed and size is there. how much different was the offense when nicks/cruz and mario was on the field last year?

this video illustrates exactly what i'm talking about how this offense needs three reliable wrs that know the system and concepts and its the first play and throw to mario. http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-drive-of-the-week/09000d5d826b76f9/Drive-of-the-Week-Giants-make-it-happen

it does make me wonder from the falcons and ravens game. if the protection isn't there why were they still running medium routes that needs time to develop. if you don't have time its more so the time to run a short passing game that allows the qb to get rid of the ball quicker.

the giants and patriots offense are more a like than what most people think. both HC came from parcells but more important they both were with ron erhardt who ran a option route offense. do you people remember the steelers and cowboys SB where neil odonell threw a pick to the cowboys CB and wondered what was neil doing, he threw it right at him? who was the OC for the chin in that SB? it was ron erhardt and that was a classic streak and read option offense. the QB saw one thing and the WR saw something different.

Hooligans
12-24-2012, 01:36 PM
i agree somewhat. the giants could use a little more empty sets and when they do hopefully they don't throw a screen off it which is what they do 90% of the time when they go empty. if they attacked the field within that 5-20yd window eli would have better comp% numbers i know, but gilbride likes to attack vertically.

he does need to be a little more flexible, there are games where the giants looks more like w.c.o. with their three and five step drops with slants and hooks but that's rare. 90% of the time i see wr running a go route then breaking it off for a hook or comeback route to the sideline, how many times have you seen cruz, nicks and hixon do that in the past two years? if the safety is helping up top and is cheating towards the sideline to break on the throw how many times do you see them change that go route with an option for a comeback into a deep in that's about 15yds down the field, this is-was a nicks specialty. when he's healthy you just see him sell the go or hook then plant and burst for the deep in where eli throws it high and you see nicks stretch both arms like he's going for a rebound. eli did this with plax as well. with cruz its a little easier he runs a lot of routes in the middle and sitting in open spots, or he'll run slants and specialty of his is the switch routes that gilbride likes to run. if its man cruz continues to run the wheel route and he did that this year against the bucs or was that bennett, if its zone he will sit it about 5-10yds and turn around and wait for the ball.

this is where we and i miss mario. he wasn't brightest but man he was the best at running go and post routes which the defense had to account for. that's why i said in my post about OC and DC is not the problem but health and missing a few players. this offense or personel works best when you have three wr heathy for on but knowing gilbrides concepts. if only two is working and not the 3rd its not as productive as when all three are healthy and producing. yes, we had some moments with hixon, barden and randle taking that role moreso hixon but he isn't as explosive as mario. i just hope that randle becomes that player because the speed and size is there.

this video illustrates exactly what i'm talking about how this offense needs three reliable wrs that know the system and concepts. http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-drive-of-the-week/09000d5d826b76f9/Drive-of-the-Week-Giants-make-it-happen

the giants and patriots offense are more a like than what most people think. both HC came from parcells but more important they both were with ron erhardt who ran a option route offense. do you people remember the steelers and cowboys SB where neil odonell threw a pick to the cowboys CB and wondered what was neil doing, he threw it right at him? who was the OC for the chin in that SB? it was ron erhardt and that was a classic streak and read option offense. the QB saw one thing and the WR saw something different.

The one main difference between the Patriots and the Giant offense is that one is run by an elite, future hall of famer, while the other is run by the brother of an elite, future hall of famer.

NYtoSanDiego
12-24-2012, 01:48 PM
The one main difference between the Patriots and the Giant offense is that one is run by an elite, future hall of famer, while the other is run by the brother of an elite, future hall of famer.

love it! not even a year later after the niners game and a SB win and all of sudden he's avg.

the reason why brady and peyton looks like HOFS and MVP candidates every year is because of their line. no one will debate if you give eli time he will find the open receiver or if he had healthy receivers he will get it to them with pressure around him. when your line can't block and only one receiver can get open, it won't matter if brady or peyton is under center.

jgrangers11
12-24-2012, 01:55 PM
The one main difference between the Patriots and the Giant offense is that one is run by an elite, future hall of famer, while the other is run by the brother of an elite, future hall of famer.

So you watch the Patriots offense and the Giants offense and the only difference you see is the quarterback? Believe it or not, there's more to an offense than the quarterback. Otherwise, they wouldn't pay coordinators, receivers and linemen as much as they do.

SuperNYGiants
12-24-2012, 01:55 PM
I have a feeling you will be eating your words in the future. Give Eli a decent O-line and some WR's who can get open and that hold onto the ball and he will lead the team to success.
There's nothing that I've said that I would have to eat my words on, I'm not saying Eli sucks and he needs to go did I? All I'm saying is there's nothing wrong with keeping the options open.

If say that QB from A&M comes out next year, and Giants are in the position to draft him, are you going to not take him? Or settle for a nice OL? It's a no-brainer.

gumby74
12-24-2012, 02:29 PM
Could it be that the reason Eli took 7 years to develop is because he's slow?


To be honest, the rate at which the rookies are picking up the NFL game, it is making Eli look really bad.


LMFAO!

Compare Eli's first few years with the first few years for QBs of this generation. Not so funny anymore is it.

Jtuck
12-24-2012, 02:41 PM
Compare Eli's first few years with the first few years for QBs of this generation. Not so funny anymore is it.

Exactly!

krankeybluechick
12-24-2012, 02:41 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5hfYJsQAhl0

Omg, my all time favoriate response of all!!!! I'm so sick of the stupidity of some people on this board.

NYtoSanDiego
12-24-2012, 02:46 PM
Compare Eli's first few years with the first few years for QBs of this generation. Not so funny anymore is it.

Its a myriad of things. Coughlin, Hufnagel and Gilbride decided to throw everything at him while other coaches with rookies simplified the offense to reduce the damage. He had wr and a te that didn't like working and also its their type of offense and concepts. Other offensive systems are easier to run than others. This was all documented in two books, The GM and The Making of a QB.

QBs today are taking less time to develop because theyre coming out of programs that are passing it more. Also again teams simplifying the offense to fit the rookie. They did it with rothlisberger in his rookie year to Ryan, flacco, sanchize and newton. And until they win a SB they will still be in the class of can't get over the hump. Look at newton and freeman after their 2nd and 3rd years, was it as good as their first? Freeman is running the same offense as Eli and at times looks elite and at times looks like a rookie. Its the offensive system as well as the qb iq plays a big part if a qb plays well but they also need help from the other 10 to be succesful.

ELI_HOF_NYG
12-24-2012, 02:50 PM
I know a lot of you are mad but c'mon,,,attacking Eli? do you understand what is going on with this team this year? do his 7 road playoff game wins against "elite qb's" mean notjing? the fact that he nevermisses a game mean nothing? He can't do it himself all the time,,get real already,,we are lucky to have him.

Hooligans
12-24-2012, 03:02 PM
love it! not even a year later after the niners game and a SB win and all of sudden he's avg.

the reason why brady and peyton looks like HOFS and MVP candidates every year is because of their line. no one will debate if you give eli time he will find the open receiver or if he had healthy receivers he will get it to them with pressure around him. when your line can't block and only one receiver can get open, it won't matter if brady or peyton is under center.

Not True - Peyton played behind many bad offensive lines...he is just smarter with the ball and quicker getting rid of it....same with Brady. Eli's line has been failing....but Elite QBs find a way to still move the offense and score....Eli doesn't and is only as good as those players around him, which is the definition of the "good" QB, but not the elite QB.

Hooligans
12-24-2012, 03:04 PM
Compare Eli's first few years with the first few years for QBs of this generation. Not so funny anymore is it.

Eli was slow....the fact that it took him so long to get going should have alerted the Giants to his limitations.

krankeybluechick
12-24-2012, 03:06 PM
I know a lot of you are mad but c'mon,,,attacking Eli? do you understand what is going on with this team this year? do his 7 road playoff game wins against "elite qb's" mean notjing? the fact that he nevermisses a game mean nothing? He can't do it himself all the time,,get real already,,we are lucky to have him.

Honestly you are waisting your time trying to educate some of these ungrateful fans. There are some fans on here who don't like our 2 time Super Bowl MVP and would like nothing more then to get rid of him for someone like RGIII so they can malign him because he's not like this one or that one. Some people are so miserable that cannot be happy about anything. I in turn are aggravated by the "whole" teams effort and realize that we cannot win the Super Bowl every year but am happy with the 2 Super Bowls in 4 years. Be grateful you're not a Raider or Bills fan! Oh and Merry Christmas!

jgrangers11
12-24-2012, 03:08 PM
Not True - Peyton played behind many bad offensive lines...he is just smarter with the ball and quicker getting rid of it....same with Brady. Eli's line has been failing....but Elite QBs find a way to still move the offense and score....Eli doesn't and is only as good as those players around him, which is the definition of the "good" QB, but not the elite QB.

I completely disagree. Their offenses are designed to get the ball out quickly, ours isn't. Every QB is only going to be as good as the players around him. The Giants O-line is awful right now and our coaching staff does nothing to try and fix that. Other offenses can get around that by calling for quicker passes. How many throws do those other QBs make that are within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage? How many does Eli make that aren't dump offs?

Hooligans
12-24-2012, 03:09 PM
Honestly you are waisting your time trying to educate some of these ungrateful fans. There are some fans on here who don't like our 2 time Super Bowl MVP and would like nothing more then to get rid of him for someone like RGIII so they can malign him because he's not like this one or that one. Some people are so miserable that cannot be happy about anything. I in turn are aggravated by the "whole" teams effort and realize that we cannot win the Super Bowl every year but am happy with the 2 Super Bowls in 4 years. Be grateful you're not a Raider or Bills fan! Oh and Merry Christmas!

No, your characterization of those that would like to replace Eli is wrong. We do recognize all the good he has done for the Giants, but his inconsitent play is now costing the Giants games. Every NFL player hits the wall eventually, and it appears that both Phillip Rivers and Eli have hit theirs.

Hooligans
12-24-2012, 03:11 PM
I completely disagree. Their offenses are designed to get the ball out quickly, ours isn't. Every QB is only going to be as good as the players around him. The Giants O-line is awful right now and our coaching staff does nothing to try and fix that. Other offenses can get around that by calling for quicker passes. How many throws do those other QBs make that are within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage? How many does Eli make that aren't dump offs?

Again, both Peyton and Brady have played with offensive lines equally as bad as the Giants and they still scored points and won a lot of games...how many times have you seen either of these guys outscored 61-14 over two weeks?

thomasg2488
12-24-2012, 03:14 PM
Give Eli a system like the Packers, Saints, Patriots, he'd be a lot better, shoot, look at the OC he has now! Kevin "Kill Drive" Gilbride is TERRIBLE and Eli's done pretty good. Get Tom Clements from the Packers since he'll be up for a coaching job next.

jgrangers11
12-24-2012, 03:14 PM
Again, both Peyton and Brady have played with offensive lines equally as bad as the Giants and they still scored points and won a lot of games...how many times have you seen either of these guys outscored 61-14 over two weeks?

When was the last time you saw Peyton Manning or Tom Brady under siege like Eli was yesterday? He was getting hit more than half the times he dropped back. I don't care who you are, you're not succeeding under that kind of pressure.

thomasg2488
12-24-2012, 03:15 PM
Again, both Peyton and Brady have played with offensive lines equally as bad as the Giants and they still scored points and won a lot of games...how many times have you seen either of these guys outscored 61-14 over two weeks?

What part of Gilbride's system have you not seen? There are no short passes...period. EVERYTHING is deep, and it requires our O-Line to block and it can't. Peyton and Brady throw short passes most of the time which sets up the deep ball.

Hooligans
12-24-2012, 03:15 PM
When was the last time you saw Peyton Manning or Tom Brady under siege like Eli was yesterday? He was getting hit more than half the times he dropped back. I don't care who you are, you're not succeeding under that kind of pressure.

You don't, because they get rid of the ball quicker.....again they are smarter and have a quicker release than Eli...that is why they are elite QBs and Eli isn't.

jgrangers11
12-24-2012, 03:19 PM
You don't, because they get rid of the ball quicker.....again they are smarter and have a quicker release than Eli...that is why they are elite QBs and Eli isn't.

Again, they get the ball out quicker because that's what their offense is designed to do. In our offense, everything is a 5-step drop with long developing routes. When was the last time this offense ran a designed quick slant? Or a designed screen pass that wasn't on 3rd and 20?

krankeybluechick
12-24-2012, 03:21 PM
No, your characterization of those that would like to replace Eli is wrong. We do recognize all the good he has done for the Giants, but his inconsitent play is now costing the Giants games. Every NFL player hits the wall eventually, and it appears that both Phillip Rivers and Eli have hit theirs.

I disagree with you. It's ungrateful fans like you that aggravate me. How has our defense played lately??? Oh, right all the Giant's Woes are Eli's fault. So one year removed from our 2nd Super Bowl win Eli is all washed up?? Give me a break!

Hooligans
12-24-2012, 03:32 PM
I disagree with you. It's ungrateful fans like you that aggravate me. How has our defense played lately??? Oh, right all the Giant's Woes are Eli's fault. So one year removed from our 2nd Super Bowl win Eli is all washed up?? Give me a break!

The defense has been horrible, and all the Giants' woes are not Eli's fault......but he is becoming more and more of a liability. Time for the Giants to prepare to the next Giant QB, just as they did with Phill Simms, Kerry Collins, and now Eli.

Roosevelt
12-24-2012, 03:32 PM
Eli could possibly retire with 3 rings and you will have morons asking "Is he is a hall of famer" The fans today,

Holy ****..

Why stop at 3?

ShakeandBake
12-24-2012, 03:34 PM
Honestly you are waisting your time trying to educate some of these ungrateful fans. There are some fans on here who don't like our 2 time Super Bowl MVP and would like nothing more then to get rid of him for someone like RGIII so they can malign him because he's not like this one or that one. Some people are so miserable that cannot be happy about anything. I in turn are aggravated by the "whole" teams effort and realize that we cannot win the Super Bowl every year but am happy with the 2 Super Bowls in 4 years. Be grateful you're not a Raider or Bills fan! Oh and Merry Christmas!

There is a big difference between criticism(which is most definitely deserved at this point) and thinking that Eli is garbage and should no longer be on the team. Eli, along with the vast majority of the "impact" players on this team have had a horrible season. I see people calling for heads on these boards, however I have yet to see anyone who wants Eli gone.

Roosevelt
12-24-2012, 03:35 PM
i think we tend to forget that Eli is deadly in the 2min offense. that is what makes him above avg. i know im guilty of forgetting it when he goes through his slumps.

Which makes it baffling that we never went no huddle to wake this team up.

Hooligans
12-24-2012, 03:36 PM
Again, they get the ball out quicker because that's what their offense is designed to do. In our offense, everything is a 5-step drop with long developing routes. When was the last time this offense ran a designed quick slant? Or a designed screen pass that wasn't on 3rd and 20?

That is nonsense...Eli just holds the ball longer. The Giant patterns are no longer than the Patriots or the Colts under Peyton.....the fact is that Peyton and Brady are smarter and get rid of the ball quicker. Blaming schemes or the coaches is silly. Brady or Peyton could easily play under Gilbride and produce many more points thna the inconsitent Eli.

Hooligans
12-24-2012, 03:38 PM
There is a big difference between criticism(which is most definitely deserved at this point) and thinking that Eli is garbage and should no longer be on the team. Eli, along with the vast majority of the "impact" players on this team have had a horrible season. I see people calling for heads on these boards, however I have yet to see anyone who wants Eli gone.

I want him gone - Eli has run his course with the Giants. He has played well, but now he is becoming a liability. Time for the Giants to rebuild and retool at ALL positions, including quarterback. It might take 1 or 2 years to get some young QB ready, but now is the time as it is clear Eli is nearing the end.

ShakeandBake
12-24-2012, 03:40 PM
I want him gone - Eli has run his course with the Giants. He has played well, but now he is becoming a liability. Time for the Giants to rebuild and retool at ALL positions, including quarterback. It might take 1 or 2 years to get some young QB ready, but now is the itme as it is clear Eli is nearing the end.

Ok, but my point was that you are in a very small minority. The vast majority of people of these boards do not want Eli gone, however they acknowledge that he played like **** the year.

Roosevelt
12-24-2012, 03:40 PM
Question is does Eli have the accuracy to suceed in a West Coast offense.

No. Eli can't go short.

nycsportzfan
12-24-2012, 03:45 PM
Hes a enigma in my opinon.. Its like something off with his brain or something? He can make a easy decison look so god darn hard, and then at other times look so good.. Hes gotta be the most up and down QB i've seen in the past 7yrs, at least outta ones that matter... Theres nobody luckier that we snuck into the postseason those 2 SB runs, because without those, ELI's probably mostly hated by giant fans.. Hes just lucky he played his best ball those 8-9postseason games, because overall in his entire 9yr career, hes been OK to SOLID, and thats about it..

nycsportzfan
12-24-2012, 03:48 PM
No. Eli can't go short. Oh god, some of his throws to the sideline that sail or float over teh Wr's heads, to the point the WR's done even try for it, are comic relief at its best.. There was a guy at the Xmas party i was at yesterday who wondered if ELI had brain damage, because of how awful he looks sometimes and how solid he can look at others.. He seriously might be bi-polar? U litteraly don't know what ur getting outta this guy, one season to the next, one half seasons to the next, one game to the next, one postseason to the next...etc

very frustratingly inconsistent, to say the least...

nycsportzfan
12-24-2012, 03:51 PM
That is nonsense...Eli just holds the ball longer. The Giant patterns are no longer than the Patriots or the Colts under Peyton.....the fact is that Peyton and Brady are smarter and get rid of the ball quicker. Blaming schemes or the coaches is silly. Brady or Peyton could easily play under Gilbride and produce many more points thna the inconsitent Eli.
i agree with this.. I mean, u put Brady or Peyton in any system and there gonna produce, end of story.. U put ELI in any system, and hes gonna be erratic and inconsistent.. Its who they are, and that is the way it is... Its surely no coincidence that the Colts offense was dreaful last yr without peyton, and the broncos pass offense was dreadful without peyton, and both are tremendous with em... i mean, duhhhhh!lol

Eliscruzzz
12-24-2012, 04:04 PM
To be honest, the rate at which the rookies are picking up the NFL game, it is making Eli look really bad.Just ridiculous statement get a clue man. How long have these defenses seen and how much tape do they get to watch on Eli??? You guys are RIDICULOUS!!! Give the guy a break yes he is having a down year but he wasn't terrible like you said. He has had a hurt Nicks ALL year, while Cruz in great but he makes some of the most costly drops I ever seen. Let's give the guy till next year before we try to crucify him.

ELI_HOF_NYG
12-24-2012, 04:08 PM
i agree with this.. I mean, u put Brady or Peyton in any system and there gonna produce, end of story.. U put ELI in any system, and hes gonna be erratic and inconsistent.. Its who they are, and that is the way it is... Its surely no coincidence that the Colts offense was dreaful last yr without peyton, and the broncos pass offense was dreadful without peyton, and both are tremendous with em... i mean, duhhhhh!lol

you put brady or peyton on a team with redundant play calling, no running game and a turn style OL line and no,,they will not produce on the level they are capable of. by the way,,all the talk about brady,,but didn't the same eli you are saying is no good beat that same tom brady twice in SUPERBOWLS, rodgers and favre in the playoffs and on the road? regular season stats are nice but the fact of the matter is that eli has two rings and peyton has one,,brady has one more than eli but hasn't beaten him since regualar season 2007. he had a bad year due to the glaring deficiencies on offense starting with the coordinator. is some of it on him,,of course,,but to question him as a QB with his track record is simply stupid. why don't we bench eli and bring back scott brunner,,or perhaps dave brown,,or maybe jesse palmer? I bet we could trade eli to the jets for mark sanchez,,sound good?

nycsportzfan
12-24-2012, 04:14 PM
you put brady or peyton on a team with redundant play calling, no running game and a turn style OL line and no,,they will not produce on the level they are capable of. by the way,,all the talk about brady,,but didn't the same eli you are saying is no good beat that same tom brady twice in SUPERBOWLS, rodgers and favre in the playoffs and on the road? regular season stats are nice but the fact of the matter is that eli has two rings and peyton has one,,brady has one more than eli but hasn't beaten him since regualar season 2007. he had a bad year due to the glaring deficiencies on offense starting with the coordinator. is some of it on him,,of course,,but to question him as a QB with his track record is simply stupid. why don't we bench eli and bring back scott brunner,,or perhaps dave brown,,or maybe jesse palmer? I bet we could trade eli to the jets for mark sanchez,,sound good? What are u talking about? we got the same OC and HC through ELI's entire career..lol He plays the game, the other guys are such a small part of ELi's success..

Look at Josh McDaniels just for a example real quick.. He was a joke of a HC with the broncos, and did nothing with Rams last yr, and now hes with the patriots, and all of a sudden, hes the man again!!!lol If u have good players, ur gonna look good as a OC and HC..

Look at Seattle? All of a sudden, there offense is great? Must be awesome coaching right? Or how about the fact they got a good QB that makes the coaches and OC look good? Its the same play calling, same recievers, just a good QB...

ELI is a inconsistent QB, who makes poor decisons, has zero mobility, when under pressure makes catostrophic mistakes, and at times can also look brillinat.. We've seen it his entire career, and were gonna see it the rest of his career as well.. hes never gonna put up brilliant season after brilliant season, as its not who he is.. Hes the opitomy of Jeckyl and Hyde..

Now, all that said, he definetly isn't a horrible QB to have by any stretch, and u can WIN with him(obviously), but u also can lose with him, and look completly stupid doing it... I mean, we lose in disgusting fashion all most every yr.. I 'm not talking about losing games ur in, i'm talking about a handful of games where ur just left scratching ur head wondering how the heck and who the heck are these idiots?

Hooligans
12-24-2012, 04:17 PM
you put brady or peyton on a team with redundant play calling, no running game and a turn style OL line and no,,they will not produce on the level they are capable of. by the way,,all the talk about brady,,but didn't the same eli you are saying is no good beat that same tom brady twice in SUPERBOWLS, rodgers and favre in the playoffs and on the road? regular season stats are nice but the fact of the matter is that eli has two rings and peyton has one,,brady has one more than eli but hasn't beaten him since regualar season 2007. he had a bad year due to the glaring deficiencies on offense starting with the coordinator. is some of it on him,,of course,,but to question him as a QB with his track record is simply stupid. why don't we bench eli and bring back scott brunner,,or perhaps dave brown,,or maybe jesse palmer? I bet we could trade eli to the jets for mark sanchez,,sound good?

Yes they will and have done. If Peyton or Brady was the current Giant QB, the Giants would NFC East champs and either 1st or 2nd seed......even with the Giant's sorry defense.

Markroman
12-24-2012, 04:20 PM
The funny part of all this is years from now when the Giants do not win a Superbowl for 30 years and go through a bunch of Dave Browns, Danny Kannel's etc...you will appreciate Eli a little more.

Hooligans
12-24-2012, 04:22 PM
The funny part of all this is years from now when the Giants do not win a Superbowl for 30 years and go through a bunch of Dave Browns, Danny Kannel's etc...you will appreciate Eli a little more.

Maybe, but that is only if the Giant's front office is so inept and takes 30 years to get a good QB.

Cloud57
12-24-2012, 04:24 PM
RG3 and Luck will probably take their teams to the playoffs as rookies. What was Eli doing as a rookie? Throwing interceptions

Markroman
12-24-2012, 04:24 PM
How many current Qb's have Superbowl rings? It is not that easy.

Markroman
12-24-2012, 04:25 PM
RG3 has Alfred Morris. Alfred Morris is the guy carrying the Skins.

SuperNYGiants
12-24-2012, 04:28 PM
Tiki Barber was no scrub.

gumby74
12-24-2012, 04:29 PM
Just ridiculous statement get a clue man. How long have these defenses seen and how much tape do they get to watch on Eli??? You guys are RIDICULOUS!!! Give the guy a break yes he is having a down year but he wasn't terrible like you said. He has had a hurt Nicks ALL year, while Cruz in great but he makes some of the most costly drops I ever seen. Let's give the guy till next year before we try to crucify him.

Compare Eli's first few years. Then compare the current crop of QBs first few years. Ridiculous? Nope. Who said Eli was terrible? No one. But the young ones seem to be picking it up faster than Eli did.

ELI_HOF_NYG
12-24-2012, 04:31 PM
How many current Qb's have Superbowl rings? It is not that easy.

apparently the dopes in this room don't understand this,,when tom brady went down a few years ago matt cassel stepped in and went 11-5,,so does that mean brady is a system QB? if eli went down last year could carr have stepped in and lead us to the super bowl? it's amazing how many truly clueless fans are in this room. go root for the jets if your not satisfied.

Eliscruzzz
12-24-2012, 04:41 PM
Compare Eli's first few years. Then compare the current crop of QBs first few years. Ridiculous? Nope. Who said Eli was terrible? No one. But the young ones seem to be picking it up faster than Eli did.No I won't compare that cause you know for a fact that is not what you meant AT ALL.... You were talking about NOW, based of one year... LOL....talk about fickle fans. You have no clue about football bro, just saying.

Sarcasman
12-24-2012, 04:41 PM
LOL, well that was an insightful post, got it, thanks.

The biggest complaint most on this board has is that the O-line isn't giving Eli time to throw, considering how long the plays take to develop, it is a valid argument. How is going to a 3-4 step drop and getting the ball out faster a bad thing? How is simplifying the offense to a point that it allows less experienced receivers get involved in the game earlier something you wouldn't be for?


You seem to want to engage me in the overall discussion which I'm not interested in doing. I was simply replying to the OP of perhaps the dumbest thread currently open. If the discussion has morphed to a discussion of changing the offensive philosophy, that's great. If I'm interested in participating, I'll read the whole thread and then do so.

The thread title typically portends a completely different and much, much less intellectual discussion.

krankeybluechick
12-24-2012, 04:41 PM
RG3 and Luck will probably take their teams to the playoffs as rookies. What was Eli doing as a rookie? Throwing interceptions

Who gives a sh*t what they do in first year as a rookie? Eli has 2 superbowl wins in 4 years. Cam Newton was the second coming of ch**st, what has he done this year? Let's not crown these QBs so quick. I would bet you are the same fans that wanted Rivers right? What has he done? Any Super Bowls? Hasn't even come close.

Sarcasman
12-24-2012, 04:44 PM
Lets stop mentioning Rogers. He is elite and may be the MVP again this year.

Let's stop saying elite since it is completely undefined, subjective, and in this context is not a real indication of anything. It's use on these boards is that of a punch line, nothing more.

Eliscruzzz
12-24-2012, 04:46 PM
Who gives a sh*t what they do in first year as a rookie? Eli has 2 superbowl wins in 4 years. Cam Newton was the second coming of ch**st, what has he done this year? Let's not crown these QBs so quick. I would bet you are the same fans that wanted Rivers right? What has he done? Any Super Bowls? Hasn't even come close.+1 man I'm with you some of these fans make me freaking sick..

Hooligans
12-24-2012, 04:46 PM
Let's stop saying elite since it is completely undefined, subjective, and in this context is not a real indication of anything. It's use on these boards is that of a punch line, nothing more.

More importantly, we should mention the word "elite" in the same sentence as Eli since neither is compatible in any way except for the fact they have the same first three letters.

Sarcasman
12-24-2012, 04:50 PM
More importantly, we should mention the word "elite" in the same sentence as Eli since neither is compatible in any way except for the fact they have the same first three letters.


Feel free to re-read the post until you understand it. Ask for help if need be, it's nothing about which to be embarrassed.

Rudyy
12-24-2012, 04:52 PM
Feel free to re-read the post until you understand it. Ask for help if need be, it's nothing about which to be embarrassed.He's a troll.

nycsportzfan
12-24-2012, 04:57 PM
The funny part of all this is years from now when the Giants do not win a Superbowl for 30 years and go through a bunch of Dave Browns, Danny Kannel's etc...you will appreciate Eli a little more. Great, so we gotta have guys like Dave Brown and Danny Kanell to make us wish we still had ELI..lol U could say that about a 1000nd NFL Qb's, coulden't u? Danny Kanell and Dave Brown aren't 100million dollar former 1st overall draft picks either, by the way...

Eliscruzzz
12-24-2012, 05:02 PM
Great, so we gotta have guys like Dave Brown and Danny Kanell to make us wish we still had ELI..lol U could say that about a 1000nd NFL Qb's, coulden't u? Danny Kanell and Dave Brown aren't 100million dollar former 1st overall draft picks either, by the way...smh..WOW!!!! You guys need to calm the hell down. If Eli had the season he had last year we probably go 12-4, but the o-line, Nicks being hurt ALL year, and others dropping the ball, and no running game, and no viable 3rd wr is going to effect ANY qb. Let's not forget our horrid defense that just gave up 14 like nothing in the 1RST QUARTER!!! that took us right out of our gameplan from the get go.

Delicreep
12-24-2012, 05:09 PM
That's what I mean What's the split between mobile and immobile starting QBs? I honestly have no idea.


That is nonsense...Eli just holds the ball longer. The Giant patterns are no longer than the Patriots or the Colts under Peyton.....the fact is that Peyton and Brady are smarter and get rid of the ball quicker. Blaming schemes or the coaches is silly. Brady or Peyton could easily play under Gilbride and produce many more points thna the inconsitent Eli.

Just kinda mindlessly reading this thread, but I gotta ask: when you make posts, do you re-read them to consider whether your argument makes sense, or more importantly for you, cannot easily be thrown right back at you?

Just curious.

gumby74
12-24-2012, 05:20 PM
Compare Eli's first few years. Then compare the current crop of QBs first few years. Ridiculous? Nope. Who said Eli was terrible? No one. But the young ones seem to be picking it up faster than Eli did.


No I won't compare that cause you know for a fact that is not what you meant AT ALL.... You were talking about NOW, based of one year... LOL....talk about fickle fans. You have no clue about football bro, just saying.

So you're telling me what I was thinking? Unbelievable.

bigblue58
12-24-2012, 05:23 PM
I saw passes going to receivers yesterday who continually dropped them...but it's Eli who isn't elite....what a f'king joke this fan base is! I guess it's true that Eli is actually supposed to catch the passes too!
An NFL receiver's job is to get open which the Giants receivers rarely if ever do, which is why Eli is always throwing to guys who aren't open.
Let's stop already with this foolishness. Eli Manning is the reason we have 2 SB wins in the last 5 years.
This Offensive line has got to be restocked with younger...established linemen. You can't wait for draft picks to develop in todays NFL. The Giants front office is going to have to change its mindset and adapt to that fact.
We need established DB's. Prince is a bust.......Phillips is always hurt........and Webster is a flat out bum.
We need a new Defensive Coordinator who knows how to utilize the talent we have, because Fewell is totally in the weeds.
Unfortunately....the giants have salary cap issues, and their mindset will not change which means that aside from maybe an aging veteran Free agent pick up here and there, the under achieving team you see tanking now, will be what we have to deal with for the next 5 or 6 years.
Eli is NOT the problem., and you have to be deaf, dumb and blind to even suggest that he is!

Parademon
12-24-2012, 05:57 PM
smh..WOW!!!! You guys need to calm the hell down. If Eli had the season he had last year we probably go 12-4, but the o-line, Nicks being hurt ALL year, and others dropping the ball, and no running game, and no viable 3rd wr is going to effect ANY qb. Let's not forget our horrid defense that just gave up 14 like nothing in the 1RST QUARTER!!! that took us right out of our gameplan from the get go.

True that the entire team has had a bad yr at many positions & Eli can't win a game by himself but there have been a few games this yr where the D has played well & held the opponent to under 17 points & Eli & the O couldn't put up enough points to win the game. Eagles/Skins games come to mind. 2 losses by a total of 3 points that are now coming back to haunt us. Division losses at that!

NYtoSanDiego
12-24-2012, 06:03 PM
Not True - Peyton played behind many bad offensive lines...he is just smarter with the ball and quicker getting rid of it....same with Brady. Eli's line has been failing....but Elite QBs find a way to still move the offense and score....Eli doesn't and is only as good as those players around him, which is the definition of the "good" QB, but not the elite QB.

Ok he had years where he had a bad O line but how was Wayne, Harrison, Clark and James?

Also at the time when the colts were winning 12 games a year how was their other divisional opponents? Its the same with chargers and the afc west pre Peyton.

Rudyy
12-24-2012, 06:06 PM
I saw passes going to receivers yesterday who continually dropped them...but it's Eli who isn't elite....what a f'king joke this fan base is! I guess it's true that Eli is actually supposed to catch the passes too!An NFL receiver's job is to get open which the Giants receivers rarely if ever do, which is why Eli is always throwing to guys who aren't open.Let's stop already with this foolishness. Eli Manning is the reason we have 2 SB wins in the last 5 years.This Offensive line has got to be restocked with younger...established linemen. You can't wait for draft picks to develop in todays NFL. The Giants front office is going to have to change its mindset and adapt to that fact.We need established DB's. Prince is a bust.......Phillips is always hurt........and Webster is a flat out bum.We need a new Defensive Coordinator who knows how to utilize the talent we have, because Fewell is totally in the weeds.Unfortunately....the giants have salary cap issues, and their mindset will not change which means that aside from maybe an aging veteran Free agent pick up here and there, the under achieving team you see tanking now, will be what we have to deal with for the next 5 or 6 years.Eli is NOT the problem., and you have to be deaf, dumb and blind to even suggest that he is!How is Prince a bust?

NYtoSanDiego
12-24-2012, 06:10 PM
The defense has been horrible, and all the Giants' woes are not Eli's fault......but he is becoming more and more of a liability. Time for the Giants to prepare to the next Giant QB, just as they did with Phill Simms, Kerry Collins, and now Eli.

Sure.... prepare for another Dave Brown, Kent Graham, Danny Kanell. You sir are a ******. There's no guarantee that Brady or Peyton would've fared better yesterday. Different team, different schemes.

SuperNYGiants
12-24-2012, 06:18 PM
Ok Eli homers calm down, I didn't intend to start this thread to bash Eli, I never even said anything bad about him. Stop being so over-sensitive. I'm merely saying Eli won't be here forever and having options open is not a bad thing. Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez.

jgrangers11
12-24-2012, 06:18 PM
Ok he had years where he had a bad O line but how was Wayne, Harrison, Clark and James?

Also at the time when the colts were winning 12 games a year was their other divisional opponents? Its the same with chargers and the afc west when pre Peyton.

When was Peyton's O-line ever that bad? I know they couldn't run the ball for a while, but they probably had fewer sacks than anybody over his time with the Colts. Peyton was sacked 231 times in 208 games in Indy. Eli has been sacked 212 times in 136 games with the Giants.

NYtoSanDiego
12-24-2012, 06:23 PM
Here's the answer as to why other rookies fared better than elis first few years.

Its a myriad of things. Coughlin, Hufnagel and Gilbride decided to throw everything at him while other coaches with rookies simplified the offense to reduce the damage. He had wr and a te that didn't like working and also its their type of offense and concepts. Other offensive systems are easier to run than others. This was all documented in two books, The GM and The Making of a QB.

QBs today are taking less time to develop because theyre coming out of programs that are passing it more. Also again teams simplifying the offense to fit the rookie. They did it with rothlisberger in his rookie year to Ryan, flacco, sanchize and newton. And until they win a SB they will still be in the class of can't get over the hump. Look at newton and freeman after their 2nd and 3rd years, was it as good as their first? Freeman is running the same offense as Eli and at times looks elite and at times looks like a rookie. Its the offensive system as well as the qb iq plays a big part if a qb plays well but they also need help from the other 10 to be succesful.

Sarcasman
12-24-2012, 06:25 PM
Ok Eli homers calm down, I didn't intend to start this thread to bash Eli, I never even said anything bad about him. Stop being so over-sensitive. I'm merely saying Eli won't be here forever and having options open is not a bad thing. Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez.


It's OK to start a thread without actually stopping to decide if whether your OP makes any sense or not, in fact it's preferable since that's what makes this place go!

krankeybluechick
12-24-2012, 06:29 PM
Ok Eli homers calm down, I didn't intend to start this thread to bash Eli, I never even said anything bad about him. Stop being so over-sensitive. I'm merely saying Eli won't be here forever and having options open is not a bad thing. Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez.

You didn't intended to to start this tread to bash Eli? Are you kidding? Saying it took 7 years to develop him and now rookie QBs play better then him was a compliment?

Sarcasman
12-24-2012, 06:30 PM
Here's the answer as to why other rookies fared better than elis first few years.



While what you're saying makes sense, I have to wonder why it would ever need to be said at all.

What could possibly be relevant about comparing two players by looking at one's current output and another's previous? That might be one of the stupidest most pointless exercises I've read in a few days. And that's really saying something.

I know you're just responding but it's a bit like trying to explain the fiscal cliff to the crazy dude in the park. Just because he's screaming gibberish at the squirrels and occasionally yells "fiscal cliff" doesn't mean he deserves a serious, thoughtful response.

SuperNYGiants
12-24-2012, 06:33 PM
That's right, all I said is rookie QB are playing great, so what if Eli isn't playing so good, that's just reality. I still said Eli is very decent. How is that a bashing?
I'm very appreciative of what Eli has done for us fans, that doesn't mean I'm not interested another QB for the rest of time either, if a stud QB is on the draft, I'm going to salivate, is that a crime? Sue me!

Buddy333
12-24-2012, 06:36 PM
Nothing wrong with pointing out hat Eli got outplayed this year by three rookie QB's.

krankeybluechick
12-24-2012, 06:37 PM
That's right, all I said is rookie QB are playing great, so what if Eli isn't playing so good, that's just reality. I still said Eli is very decent. How is that a bashing?
I'm very appreciative of what Eli has done for us fans, that doesn't mean I'm not interested another QB for the rest of time either, if a stud QB is on the draft, I'm going to salivate, is that a crime? Sue me!

So it's only a year after his 2nd Super Bowl win and you're ready to replace him. Sorry but I see other players on this team that need to be replaced i.e. Tuck, Webster, Osi, Diehl and I can go on and on and on.

SuperNYGiants
12-24-2012, 06:41 PM
Who said anything about replacing Eli, right now Giants actually do need a real back-up QB, because Carr is just a decoration, and he won't be back next year, but I don't think any QB they'll draft in the 5th round or via free agent is going to be the next messiah so calm down, take the anti-paranoia medication and go to bed, Meryy Christmas!

NYtoSanDiego
12-24-2012, 06:46 PM
While what you're saying makes sense, I have to wonder why it would ever need to be said at all.

What could possibly be relevant about comparing two players by looking at one's current output and another's previous? That might be one of the stupidest most pointless exercises I've read in a few days. And that's really saying something.

I know you're just responding but it's a bit like trying to explain the fiscal cliff to the crazy dude in the park. Just because he's screaming gibberish at the squirrels and occasionally yells "fiscal cliff" doesn't mean he deserves a serious, thoughtful response.

another one.Here's the thing with these posters they, me, you, are all arm chair qbs. We think we know but we really don't. So before people type gibberish know what type of system your team runs as well as the other teams and their qbs they speak of they wish we had. Its the same issue with the Lakers and damphoni system. Its not like Kobe, Dwight, gasol, artest all of a sudden decided to suck. Its the system that's making them suck and they don't know it well. Could they have ran a more conventional offense with Isos and pick and rolls with Kobe and Dwight, sure they could and they probably would win a lot more games.

Some people in here don't know why their own team is sucking and its not because of the qb.

Sarcasman
12-24-2012, 06:49 PM
another one.Here's the thing with these posters they, me, you, are all arm chair qbs. We think we know but we really don't. So before people type gibberish know what type of system your team runs as well as the other teams and their qbs they speak of they wish we had. Its the same issue with the Lakers and damphoni system. Its not like Kobe, Dwight, gasol, artest all of a sudden decided to suck. Its the system that's making them suck and they don't know it well. Could they have ran a more conventional offense with Isis and pick and rolls with Kobe and Dwight, sure they could and they probably would win a lot more games.

Some people in here don't know why their own team is sucking and its not because of the qb.

enough. Could they have ran a simplified offense of iso and pick and rolls with Kobe and Dwight, yes. They don't because of the coach.

That's what I'm saying. Take some casual fan knowledge, add in some arrogance and ignorance in equal measure and finally a good dose of logical fallacies as a substitute for intellectual reasoning and you've got yourself a fandom message board!

SuperNYGiants
12-24-2012, 06:52 PM
Yeah, Eli under-threw Hixon like 3 times, it's not Eli's fault, it's everyone else's fault.

I swear, sometimes Eli homers sound brain-dead.

Sarcasman
12-24-2012, 06:58 PM
Yeah, Eli under-threw Hixon like 3 times, it's not Eli's fault, it's everyone else's fault.

I swear, sometimes Eli homers sound brain-dead.

If someone actually said that it would be ridiculous. But you'll have to point it out in the thread since I don't recall that anywhere. I recall a lot of unbelievably stupid **** in this thread, but I don't recall that.

DarkSaint
12-24-2012, 07:01 PM
One of the throws he caught but got flagged for PI. The same people blaming Eli on this throw are the same people blaming welker on Brady's bad throw, which was worse. But people are complaining about a what was ultimately a completed pass. LOL. The Other pass a bit under thrown but it went between 2 DBS and hit hixon on his stomach. I don't recall the 3rd one. The ones I recall had Eli throwing them in duress or about to get hit. LOL @ not with but @ people blaming Eli for completing a pass and hitting a receiver in the stomach on deep pass plays under heavy duress. Not every deep pass is a beauty especially when the qb is getting hit on 80% of his dropbacks.

NYtoSanDiego
12-24-2012, 07:04 PM
Yeah, Eli under-threw Hixon like 3 times, it's not Eli's fault, it's everyone else's fault.

I swear, sometimes Eli homers sound brain-dead.

Another one. Eli is the same guy that threw a sideline pass to manningham with two defenders. His inaccuracy can be attributed to receivers not knowing their assignments and you'll see him after a play instruct where they shouldve been. The other when your line sucks it makes any qb skittish and inaccurate.

And this brain dead homer has a paid in cash 2011 997 GT3 RS....

SuperNYGiants
12-24-2012, 07:10 PM
I don't know what your car has to do with your insight on football.

Donald Trump is rich, but he's still ugly as hell.

NYtoSanDiego
12-24-2012, 07:16 PM
I don't know what your car has to do with your insight on football.

Donald Trump is rich, but he's still ugly as hell.

Ugly jokes...let me get out my grade school mama jokes out of the closet.

mrg3
12-24-2012, 07:24 PM
Eli had a bad year, Cruz doubled, Nicks Hurt all year, O line Horrible , Snee hurt but gutting it out, Deihl done. Eli will be back

Parademon
12-24-2012, 07:32 PM
Aw what the heck, I can live with winning the SB every other yr or so. Fix the team around Eli & get the D back to top 10 & he'll get us at least 2 more SBs before he retires.

gumby74
12-24-2012, 07:33 PM
Another one. Eli is the same guy that threw a sideline pass to manningham with two defenders. His inaccuracy can be attributed to receivers not knowing their assignments and you'll see him after a play instruct where they shouldve been. The other when your line sucks it makes any qb skittish and inaccurate.

And this brain dead homer has a paid in cash 2011 997 GT3 RS....

What bad luck. 8 years worth of WRs running the wrong routes. What are the chances ....

gumby74
12-24-2012, 07:35 PM
another one.Here's the thing with these posters they, me, you, are all arm chair qbs. We think we know but we really don't. So before people type gibberish know what type of system your team runs as well as the other teams and their qbs they speak of they wish we had. Its the same issue with the Lakers and damphoni system. Its not like Kobe, Dwight, gasol, artest all of a sudden decided to suck. Its the system that's making them suck and they don't know it well. Could they have ran a more conventional offense with Isos and pick and rolls with Kobe and Dwight, sure they could and they probably would win a lot more games.

Some people in here don't know why their own team is sucking and its not because of the qb.

Wow talk about contradicting yourself in one post.

stormblue
12-24-2012, 07:42 PM
only those who portend his HOF greatness are surprised by his inconsistency.
the rest of know he is Jekyll and Hyde must take the bad with the good.

NYtoSanDiego
12-24-2012, 08:54 PM
Yeah, Eli under-threw Hixon like 3 times, it's not Eli's fault, it's everyone else's fault.

I swear, sometimes Eli homers sound brain-dead.

Another one. Eli is the same guy that threw a sideline pass to manningham with two defenders. His inaccuracy can be attributed to receivers not knowing their assignments and you'll see him after a play instruct where they shouldve been. The other when your line sucks it makes any qb skittish and inaccurate.

And this brain dead homer has a paid in cash 2011 997 GT3 RS....

GMENAGAIN
12-24-2012, 09:01 PM
I'm not saying Eli ain't good, he's decent, but he's not as elite as we all want to think he is, the rest of the QB talent in the league has jumped tremendously. I say we look for the next franchise QB sooner than later because Eli already has peaked in my opinion.

lol . . . what year was Eli in when he won his first SB?

GMENAGAIN
12-24-2012, 09:02 PM
another one.Here's the thing with these posters they, me, you, are all arm chair qbs. We think we know but we really don't. So before people type gibberish know what type of system your team runs as well as the other teams and their qbs they speak of they wish we had. Its the same issue with the Lakers and damphoni system. Its not like Kobe, Dwight, gasol, artest all of a sudden decided to suck. Its the system that's making them suck and they don't know it well. Could they have ran a more conventional offense with Isos and pick and rolls with Kobe and Dwight, sure they could and they probably would win a lot more games.

Some people in here don't know why their own team is sucking and its not because of the qb.

damphoni . . . lol

rar57
12-24-2012, 09:08 PM
Those rookie qb cannot run the offense, Eli is running either. The new qb's have one, maybe 2 reads, then run. That type offense will not last in the NFL .The Giants problems are at the line of scrimmage, both sides. Until someone can block, and someone can tackle and get pressure on the qb, the giants are done. But you cannot lay the blame totally at Eli's feet. He was not the entire reason the giants won last year in the superbowl, nor is he the entire reason for losing, this year. It is a team sport. Eli has not had time to throw nor have his receivers been open. No running game, safeties play deeper, lb drop deeper, not worrying about the run. Much less field to complete passes. The giants running backs are not good receivers and the oc has not utilized his rb in that capacity. A different scheme would help, but until the lines on this team begin to play, not much is going to happen.

Marvelousmik
12-24-2012, 09:18 PM
The Giants problems are at the line of scrimmage, both sides. Until someone can block, and someone can tackle and get pressure on the qb, the giants are done. But you cannot lay the blame totally at Eli's feet. He was not the entire reason the giants won last year in the superbowl, nor is he the entire reason for losing, this year. It is a team sport. Eli has not had time to throw nor have his receivers been open. No running game, safeties play deeper, lb drop deeper, not worrying about the run. Much less field to complete passes. The giants running backs are not good receivers and the oc has not utilized his rb in that capacity. A different scheme would help, but until the lines on this team begin to play, not much is going to happen.

logic

Cloud57
12-24-2012, 09:21 PM
What bad luck. 8 years worth of WRs running the wrong routes. What are the chances ....isn't the OC suppose to fix that?

NYGabriel
12-24-2012, 09:26 PM
Eli earns Tom Brady money but he plays like Alex Smith 80% of the time.

Sarcasman
12-24-2012, 09:30 PM
Eli earns Tom Brady money but he plays like Alex Smith 80% of the time.

Sigh.....he gets top 10 money and he's a top 10 QB. It's not difficult, folks.

Well, for most people I mean.

NYGFaninILL
12-24-2012, 09:54 PM
Sigh.....he gets top 10 money and he's a top 10 QB. It's not difficult, folks.

Well, for most people I mean.

The players won the super bowl twice IN SPITE OF Eli and the Coaches...didn't you know that.

Dogg
12-24-2012, 10:43 PM
And he got outplayed by Eli in the playoffs last year.. and outplayed by Eli this year too

Marvelousmik
12-24-2012, 10:43 PM
Sigh.....he gets top 10 money and he's a top 10 QB. It's not difficult, folks.

Well, for most people I mean.

who do u rank a head of eli? i still think hes top 5 but he falls in at exactly #5

Sarcasman
12-24-2012, 10:43 PM
The players won the super bowl twice IN SPITE OF Eli and the Coaches...didn't you know that.

I'm just beginning to get educated and not a moment too soon apparently!

Dogg
12-24-2012, 10:45 PM
Eli earns Tom Brady money but he plays like Alex Smith 80% of the time. go cheer for Brady then.....

Sarcasman
12-24-2012, 10:48 PM
who do u rank a head of eli? i still think hes top 5 but he falls in at exactly #5

It moves around and I haven't given it much thought recently and on top of that I certainly don't move the top QBs around based on one season but glancing at all the starting QBs in the league this year I'd say in no particular order, I'd rank the following in front of him:

Brady
Rodgers
P Manning
Brees

I'd then rank many more along side, but along side means just that, not ahead.

Cloud57
12-24-2012, 10:50 PM
It moves around and I haven't given it much thought recently and on top of that I certainly don't move the top QBs around based on one season but glancing at all the starting QBs in the league this year I'd say in no particular order, I'd rank the following in front of him:

Brady
Rodgers
P Manning
Brees

I'd then rank many more along side, but along side means just that, not ahead.with Wilson, Luck, & RG3 coming along, Eli my be further down that list

Marvelousmik
12-24-2012, 10:52 PM
It moves around and I haven't given it much thought recently and on top of that I certainly don't move the top QBs around based on one season but glancing at all the starting QBs in the league this year I'd say in no particular order, I'd rank the following in front of him:

Brady
Rodgers
P Manning
Brees

I'd then rank many more along side, but along side means just that, not ahead.

lol thats the exact order of how i rank the top 4 guys. i hve brady at 1 and rodgers at 2.

when you say you rank guys along side, you mean guys like who? Im assuming matt ryan is of of them

TheEnigma
12-24-2012, 10:53 PM
Being fair to Eli, these rookies are outplaying a ton of current veterans in comparison to their 1st year. 2012 has the potential to be compared to 1983 and 2004.

SuperNYGiants
12-24-2012, 10:53 PM
Matt Ryan surpassed Eli too

Cloud57
12-24-2012, 10:54 PM
Matt Ryan surpassed Eli tooif Eli had Jones and White he would be better than ryan

Marvelousmik
12-24-2012, 10:55 PM
Matt Ryan surpassed Eli too

i was thinking of making a thread about this but i feel like eli is taking so much heat right now, it would look like im just hating. But do you think matt ryan is the more consistent QB? or is he just a product of a lot of offensive weapons?

Marvelousmik
12-24-2012, 10:56 PM
if Eli had Jones and White he would be better than ryan

are they better than cruz + healthy nicks?

GMENAGAIN
12-24-2012, 11:00 PM
Matt Ryan surpassed Eli too

ha ha . . . he of zero post season wins.

Cloud57
12-24-2012, 11:00 PM
are they better than cruz + healthy nicks?Maybe but they are bigger and more physical than Cruz and Nicks

TheEnigma
12-24-2012, 11:01 PM
are they better than cruz + healthy nicks?

They can be (and are this season) and a lot of that has to do with the fact they are much more impressive in terms of athleticism. A healthy Nicks is pretty exciting to watch because of how big he plays compared to his actual frame but very few guys in this league could compare to Jones height/speed/power combination.

ELI_HOF_NYG
12-24-2012, 11:02 PM
i was thinking of making a thread about this but i feel like eli is taking so much heat right now, it would look like im just hating. But do you think matt ryan is the more consistent QB? or is he just a product of a lot of offensive weapons?

surpassed him based on what? a lot of hype and zero playoff wins? try again.

Marvelousmik
12-24-2012, 11:06 PM
surpassed him based on what? a lot of hype and zero playoff wins? try again.

he would have to definately win a superbowl at least, and continue to be consistent during each season

SuperNYGiants
12-24-2012, 11:14 PM
Andy Dalton as well, the QBs keep popping up.

SuperNYGiants
12-24-2012, 11:14 PM
As shocking as it may sound, Romo always had better stats than Eli too.

Sarcasman
12-24-2012, 11:14 PM
lol thats the exact order of how i rank the top 4 guys. i hve brady at 1 and rodgers at 2.

when you say you rank guys along side, you mean guys like who? Im assuming matt ryan is of of them

Yup, Ryan, Ben, Romo ....that's about it.

SuperNYGiants
12-24-2012, 11:15 PM
Totally forgot about Christian Ponder.

Cloud57
12-24-2012, 11:16 PM
Does this thread prove that Phil Simms was right?

Sarcasman
12-24-2012, 11:19 PM
i was thinking of making a thread about this but i feel like eli is taking so much heat right now, it would look like im just hating. But do you think matt ryan is the more consistent QB? or is he just a product of a lot of offensive weapons?

I think he needs to win something.

QB is one of the hardest of all positions to rate; wining and losing games has to be a part of the rating system, pure statistical analysis doesn't really do the job completely.

Accorsi spends a lot of time talking about this in his book. Now, I know he'll never be as smart and talented and know as much about the game as as most of the posters here, but he did write a book so I have to think that counts for something.

Sarcasman
12-24-2012, 11:23 PM
Does this thread prove that Phil Simms was right?


This thread - like every thread ever on these boards - proves absolutely nothing.

Except verifying the scary number of unknowledgeable yet verbose football fans. Many threads here prove that.

Robert21156
12-24-2012, 11:25 PM
Just about every team, at least the ones with the best offenses, run some variation of a West Coast offense. The league is designed for offenses to flourish and they make it nearly impossible for a defense to react well to the offense. Despite all those advantages, the Giants still run an old offense that relies on the offense reacting to the defense. Our offensive gameplan is terrible and we need to bring in an OC who understands where the NFL is in 2012 and can run a more modern offense. Our offense has become way too predictable and it shows in the inability of our receivers to get consistent separation.
I've been making these points for a LONG time. Our offensive schemes are stale. Our receivers rarely get separation at all. OC needs to change and NOW.

Buddy333
12-24-2012, 11:27 PM
Isn't Carson Palmer doing better than Eli this year?

danielboone
12-24-2012, 11:41 PM
Eli has really gotten no help this year, neither from his offensive linemen in the second half of the season or for his receivers the WHOLE season I believe. Eli is still elite, no question.

Come on, man. Eli has not been as precise with his passes this year. No help? You exaggerate. Eli has to be blamed as much as any other piece of the team that has not performed well. Looking at the totality of his production Eli has simply not played at an elite level this year.

BuffyBlueII
12-25-2012, 01:15 AM
good thing peyton, rg3, russel wilson, andrew luck, and Kaepernick (http://www.nfl.com/players/profile?id=00-0027974) are all playing with the same guys within their system for a long time.

Oh wait.


The 2 most productive guys between the 2 teams are cobb and cruz (both only in their second full season......ENough with the excuses please!!! lol. act like theres gum in your hair. "cut it out"

Yeah enough with your excuses and enough with your nonsense. You stated that Aaron Rodgers was with those folks for a year and that is not the case.

BuffyBlueII
12-25-2012, 01:21 AM
who do u rank a head of eli? i still think hes top 5 but he falls in at exactly #5

1-Tom Brady
2- Peyton Manning
3- Aaron Rodgers
4- Eli Manning
5- Ben rothlisberger
6- Drew Brees

That is how I would rate them.

Marvelousmik
12-25-2012, 02:23 AM
Yeah enough with your excuses and enough with your nonsense. You stated that Aaron Rodgers was with those folks for a year and that is not the case.

what are you talking about?

bigblue58
12-25-2012, 09:53 AM
How is Prince a bust?

How do you figure he's NOT a bust? The guy had a nice pick in his first game but hasn't done jack squat since and looks just as confused and in the weeds as the rest of the Giants pathetic DB corp.
What is he in your eyes, a standout? The kid was a first round pick dude, not 199th in the 5th round, and he's just as inept as the rest of the squad, so yeah...to me, that makes him a bust.

The_ One
12-25-2012, 09:57 AM
So I guess Eli, Ben and Brees are now bad QB'S, since all three of them will miss the playoffs, yea OK, people need to realize that football is a team sport, and if all the parts around the QB are not on the same page, it will make any good QB look like crap, but heck what do I know, LOL.

Marvelousmik
12-25-2012, 10:10 AM
How do you figure he's NOT a bust? The guy had a nice pick in his first game but hasn't done jack squat since and looks just as confused and in the weeds as the rest of the Giants pathetic DB corp.
What is he in your eyes, a standout? The kid was a first round pick dude, not 199th in the 5th round, and he's just as inept as the rest of the squad, so yeah...to me, that makes him a bust.

when you dont hear a corners name much, and hes on the field, it means hes doing his job. if you say hes injury prone i could understand. Saying hes a bust is just you venting out of frustration. he played pretty solid for us when he's been on the field. He is without a doubt our best corner right now.

GameTime
12-25-2012, 10:12 AM
wow...what a surprise...another Eli is this or that thread. Or better then whom thread...
Merry Christmas people........give it up....Eli is who he is.......at times he is great and at times he down right blows. Overall that makes him a very good QB with great moments and bad ones. not really hard to figure out.....

SuperNYGiants
12-25-2012, 10:53 AM
I've never seen a 2 time Super Bowl winning QB fall flat on his face in so many occasions like Eli has. I mean, look at a QB like Ben who plays with one leg and no OL and he still musters up a close enough game most of the time, not a god damn 34-0 beating. I'm totally aware that Eli is not responsible for everything here, but what really gets me upset about Eli at times is that for his QB caliber he has way too many 3 and outs and his 3rd down conversion % is not very good. Eli's level of play ranges across a very wide spectrum from being a bum to being a miracle worker, but taking his career as a whole, he's not consistent enough to put in the same category as John Elway, Joe Montana, Brett Favre, Tom Brady, and Peyton Manning. Not even close.

gmen0820
12-25-2012, 10:56 AM
I've never seen a 2 time Super Bowl winning QB fall flat on his face in so many occasions like Eli has. I mean, look at a QB like Ben who plays with one leg and no OL and he still musters up a close enough game most of the time, not a god damn 34-0 beating. I'm totally aware that Eli is not responsible for everything here, but what really gets me upset about Eli at times is that for his QB caliber he has way too many 3 and outs and his 3rd down conversion % is not very good. Eli's level of play ranges across a very wide spectrum from being a bum to being a miracle worker, but taking his career as a whole, he's not consistent enough to put in the same category as John Elway, Joe Montana, Brett Favre, Tom Brady, and Peyton Manning. Not even close.Well Ben is watching the playoffs from home, too. Sure it was because he was out for a large portion of games, but that's exactly the point.

Buddy333
12-25-2012, 12:32 PM
How do you figure he's NOT a bust? The guy had a nice pick in his first game but hasn't done jack squat since and looks just as confused and in the weeds as the rest of the Giants pathetic DB corp.What is he in your eyes, a standout? The kid was a first round pick dude, not 199th in the 5th round, and he's just as inept as the rest of the squad, so yeah...to me, that makes him a bust.If by doing nothing you mean he has only allowed 1 TD all season then yes he has done nothing. Don't know what you are watching but Prince has been excellent all year. Last year in the playoffs he was also very good.

Eliscruzzz
12-25-2012, 12:34 PM
So you're telling me what I was thinking? Unbelievable.funny that you pick the one you just stated before that the original was meant to say the rooks were better then Eli...and people just laughed at you....

Jtuck
12-25-2012, 12:43 PM
I've never seen a 2 time Super Bowl winning QB fall flat on his face in so many occasions like Eli has. I mean, look at a QB like Ben who plays with one leg and no OL and he still musters up a close enough game most of the time, not a god damn 34-0 beating. I'm totally aware that Eli is not responsible for everything here, but what really gets me upset about Eli at times is that for his QB caliber he has way too many 3 and outs and his 3rd down conversion % is not very good. Eli's level of play ranges across a very wide spectrum from being a bum to being a miracle worker, but taking his career as a whole, he's not consistent enough to put in the same category as John Elway, Joe Montana, Brett Favre, Tom Brady, and Peyton Manning. Not even close.

Neither have I! +1111

Eliscruzzz
12-25-2012, 12:50 PM
Neither have I! +1111lol....the two dopes agree. What do you know??

Jtuck
12-25-2012, 01:30 PM
lol....the two dopes agree. What do you know??

Son, You don't know me so lay off with the name calling! TY!

gumby74
12-25-2012, 01:45 PM
funny that you pick the one you just stated before that the original was meant to say the rooks were better then Eli...and people just laughed at you....

The original statement was below. You think you know exactly what I was thinking? Thank goodness for the infusion of youth on these Giant message boards.


http://boards.giants.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by gumby74 http://boards.giants.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://boards.giants.com/showthread.php?p=636364#post636364)
To be honest, the rate at which the rookies are picking up the NFL game, it is making Eli look really bad.

bigblue58
12-25-2012, 06:41 PM
when you dont hear a corners name much, and hes on the field, it means hes doing his job. if you say hes injury prone i could understand. Saying hes a bust is just you venting out of frustration. he played pretty solid for us when he's been on the field. He is without a doubt our best corner right now.

Jeez dude, im not pulling this stuff out of the air....I've watched every game on NFL replay and Amukamara has been burned as much as all the other Giants D backs.....so I don't know what you're talking about when you claim he 's been "solid"?

Roosevelt
12-25-2012, 07:46 PM
The funny part of all this is years from now when the Giants do not win a Superbowl for 30 years and go through a bunch of Dave Browns, Danny Kannel's etc...you will appreciate Eli a little more.

Now doubt it's been a terrific ride with Eli, but no denying that he's just an up and down player.

BrianK01
12-25-2012, 07:47 PM
Jeez dude, im not pulling this stuff out of the air....I've watched every game on NFL replay and Amukamara has been burned as much as all the other Giants D backs.....so I don't know what you're talking about when you claim he 's been "solid"?Actually I think you are pulling it out of the air, the kid is playing good and far from a bust...

Roosevelt
12-25-2012, 07:50 PM
Ok Eli homers calm down, I didn't intend to start this thread to bash Eli, I never even said anything bad about him. Stop being so over-sensitive. I'm merely saying Eli won't be here forever and having options open is not a bad thing. Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez.

You can't fully join the Eli club unless you are ultra sensitive - but only about him.

The entire team can be bums but don't be bad-mouthing Eli. He's off-limits.

DarkSaint
12-25-2012, 08:01 PM
All these backhanded compliments are just silly. I can't believe the amount of effort people here go to, to slander Eli, really going out of their way, I almost want to question their fandom to the Giants. Support your QB or find another team.