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View Full Version : Time to move to a new defensive philosophy



VBGiantsFan
12-24-2012, 04:43 AM
We are very close to a decent 3-4 team and with Osi and tuck being useless now, the transition wont move us away from our strengths anymore.

Dline: JPP, Draft/FA NT, Canty

LB: Draft/FA OLB, Kiwi, Boley, JWill

I can see nice exotic blitz schemes and good run stuffing with a front 7 built like that. I hope we move in that direction.

cken
12-24-2012, 04:46 AM
Oh heavens no... Our LBs are just not good enough to be able to handle a 3-4. Plus, in our division, we need that extra hand in the dirt to get some QB pressure. I'm all in for bringing in a DE 2nd round or something.

VBGiantsFan
12-24-2012, 04:55 AM
Oh heavens no... Our LBs are just not good enough to be able to handle a 3-4. Plus, in our division, we need that extra hand in the dirt to get some QB pressure. I'm all in for bringing in a DE 2nd round or something.

I think Kiwi definitely has the size to play on the inside and shed blockers. His true LB strength is stopping the run and I think that could continue on the inside. Kiwi could also very much excel at grtting a big up the middle push on blitzes. JWill would still be our TE specialist but he is also fast enough and athletic enough to blitz the QB from the outside IMO. Boley too wont have a huge problem transitioning. We would just need a pass rushihg specialist OLB.

Remember Canty was a great DE in the 3-4 for the Cowboys and JPP is definitely big enough to set the edge and get to the QB from a 3-4 DE position. We would need a NT though.

CDN_G-FAN
12-24-2012, 07:31 AM
1. contrary to the Giants experience, 3-4s are built around 2 gap NTs, and without one its like talking about how talented your receivers are without a QB

2. we don't have defensive ends that are capable of playing that position in a 3-4. Tuck used to be able to, its a waste to use JPP like that, and canty can't stay on the field.

3. i can barely find 3 passable LBers on this roster, let alone trying to come up with 4.


in conclusion, i hate the idea.

SweetZombieJesus
12-24-2012, 07:39 AM
We are very close to a decent 3-4 team and with Osi and tuck being useless now, the transition wont move us away from our strengths anymore.

No, we're very close to being equally useless in a 3-4 scheme as we are in a 4-3. Didn't you notice we had 4 linebackers on the field in a 4-4-3 and it didn't help?

Not to mention the one talented player we have left is JPP and he would be wasted in a 3-4, we don't have a big fat nose tackle, and our linebackers are scrap.

egyptian420
12-24-2012, 07:45 AM
Everyone thinks there is just 1 quick fix to get this team back on track. Let's get a new HC, lets get a new OC, lets get a new DC, lets switch to a 3-4, lets run the no huddle all game....

Until this team starts CARING....nothing will help it. Last year we went on a SB run with the same coaches, players, and philosophy but they actually played with heart. They were actually 'All In'.....not so much this year.

CDN_G-FAN
12-24-2012, 08:02 AM
Everyone thinks there is just 1 quick fix to get this team back on track. Let's get a new HC, lets get a new OC, lets get a new DC, lets switch to a 3-4, lets run the no huddle all game....

Until this team starts CARING....nothing will help it. Last year we went on a SB run with the same coaches, players, and philosophy but they actually played with heart. They were actually 'All In'.....not so much this year.

great post. i've been trying to make this point over and over.

we're not one move away from another SB.

and PS: only 6 teams have won superbowls in the last 12 years, meaning, its pretty ****ing hard to win one, so we should stop acting like its an average outcome.

RoanokeFan
12-24-2012, 08:44 AM
We are very close to a decent 3-4 team and with Osi and tuck being useless now, the transition wont move us away from our strengths anymore.

Dline: JPP, Draft/FA NT, Canty

LB: Draft/FA OLB, Kiwi, Boley, JWill

I can see nice exotic blitz schemes and good run stuffing with a front 7 built like that. I hope we move in that direction.

The main problem with this is you are probably talking about taking yourself out of contention for a few years. You have to find the personnel to do it and I'm pretty sure they aren't here now.

Plus, the ownership believes in continuity and that would require a lot of change.

stormblue
12-24-2012, 08:48 AM
"Time to move to a new defensive philosophy"

i wasn't aware that we even have one.

egyptian420
12-24-2012, 08:49 AM
great post. i've been trying to make this point over and over.

we're not one move away from another SB.

and PS: only 6 teams have won superbowls in the last 12 years, meaning, its pretty ****ing hard to win one, so we should stop acting like its an average outcome.I agree with you, but I don't know if just because we won last year that we should somehow feel satisfied or feel less bad about this team that has given up on themselves and their fans.

The Pats repeated in back to back seasons. They didn't care that they won in '03, they went out and stayed hungry for '04, something we clearly aren't doing this year.

RoanokeFan
12-24-2012, 08:49 AM
"Time to move to a new defensive philosophy"

i wasn't aware that we even have one.



That's not very Christmasy

EnragedYouth85
12-24-2012, 08:51 AM
This would never happen...

stormblue
12-24-2012, 08:54 AM
That's not very Christmasy

i know , but there is losing and there is pure torture.......two weeks in a row with playoffs on the line.
ya gotta at least vent a little.

and Merry Christmas to you and yours ....and one and all......and world peace.

:cool:

EnragedYouth85
12-24-2012, 08:56 AM
i know , but there is losing and there is pure torture.......two weeks in a row with playoffs on the line.
ya gotta at least vent a little.

and Merry Christmas to and yours ....and one and all......and world peace.

:cool:

At least with your Ms. World speach you didn't slur your words like a drunken fool lol

RoanokeFan
12-24-2012, 08:59 AM
i know , but there is losing and there is pure torture.......two weeks in a row with playoffs on the line.
ya gotta at least vent a little.

and Merry Christmas to your and yours ....and one and all......and world peace.

:cool:

And the same to you and yours.

We will rebound, it's just very disheartening right now.

Redeyejedi
12-24-2012, 08:59 AM
The main problem with this is you are probably talking about taking yourself out of contention for a few years. You have to find the personnel to do it and I'm pretty sure they aren't here now.

Plus, the ownership believes in continuity and that would require a lot of change. What makes it even more difficult is the amount of teams running the 3-4 now. Its not that easy to find 2 255 - 265 OLB's that can rush the QB and play in space. This does give me a chance to put up a picture of Tennessee's NT though. Imagine drafting this guy. 6'8 380 pounds

http://kegsneggsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/tenn.jpg

stormblue
12-24-2012, 09:01 AM
At least with your Ms. World speach you didn't slur your words like a drunken fool lol

LOL.....but i did leave out the "you" in "you and yours".....ha-ha !
i guess i better go edit that.

RoanokeFan
12-24-2012, 09:02 AM
What makes it even more difficult is the amount of teams running the 3-4 now. Its not that easy to find 2 255 - 265 OLB's that can rush the QB and play in space.

When you read making this change it seems simple enough. Until you start to think about what it takes to accomplish. First, the change in philosophy. You get past that, now you need to find the bodies either through the draft or FA or both. Then you have to release players you now have who can't fit the new look AND how much CAP space is that going to eat up if you still owe them $$.

Change is never simple

EnragedYouth85
12-24-2012, 09:03 AM
LOL.....but i did leave out the "you" in "you and yours".....ha-ha !
i guess i better go edit that.

lol, get to that sir!

stormblue
12-24-2012, 09:05 AM
What makes it even more difficult is the amount of teams running the 3-4 now. Its not that easy to find 2 255 - 265 OLB's that can rush the QB and play in space. This does give me a chance to put up a picture of Tennessee's NT though. Imagine drafting this guy. 6'8 380 pounds

http://kegsneggsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/tenn.jpg


yeah , that's what i was gonna say....we don't have the beef for a 3-4.

RoanokeFan
12-24-2012, 09:08 AM
What makes it even more difficult is the amount of teams running the 3-4 now. Its not that easy to find 2 255 - 265 OLB's that can rush the QB and play in space. This does give me a chance to put up a picture of Tennessee's NT though. Imagine drafting this guy. 6'8 380 pounds

http://kegsneggsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/tenn.jpg

DA YUM,,,,,,

EnragedYouth85
12-24-2012, 09:10 AM
What makes it even more difficult is the amount of teams running the 3-4 now. Its not that easy to find 2 255 - 265 OLB's that can rush the QB and play in space. This does give me a chance to put up a picture of Tennessee's NT though. Imagine drafting this guy. 6'8 380 pounds

http://kegsneggsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/tenn.jpg

Thats a big boy..

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 09:11 AM
We are very close to a decent 3-4 team and with Osi and tuck being useless now, the transition wont move us away from our strengths anymore.

Dline: JPP, Draft/FA NT, Canty

LB: Draft/FA OLB, Kiwi, Boley, JWill

I can see nice exotic blitz schemes and good run stuffing with a front 7 built like that. I hope we move in that direction.

I'd rather get a DC who can run a 4-3 dependably and aggressively.

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 09:12 AM
What makes it even more difficult is the amount of teams running the 3-4 now. Its not that easy to find 2 255 - 265 OLB's that can rush the QB and play in space. This does give me a chance to put up a picture of Tennessee's NT though. Imagine drafting this guy. 6'8 380 pounds

http://kegsneggsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/tenn.jpg

Ask the Chief's what they think of Dontari Poe right now.

Give me the guy with skill and a motor any day.

Redeyejedi
12-24-2012, 09:13 AM
DA YUM,,,,,, This guy would certainly help clog up the A Gaps. Teams would go uptempo so they couldnt substitute him in or out

Redeyejedi
12-24-2012, 09:17 AM
Ask the Chief's what they think of Dontari Poe right now.

Give me the guy with skill and a motor any day. Mccullers isnt really like Poe. Poe was a small school guy who didnt produce with crazy measurables. Mccullers doesnt have crazy measurables he is just a big SEC NT

SweetZombieJesus
12-24-2012, 09:19 AM
"Time to move to a new defensive philosophy"

i wasn't aware that we even have one.



LOL. Maybe our new defensive philosophy should be to play some.

M00KIE
12-24-2012, 09:20 AM
I think Fewell took the foundation Spags put in place and doesn't have the knowledge to make the right adjustments within it. I could be completely wrong, but it just seems that way.

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 09:20 AM
Mccullers isnt really like Poe. Poe was a small school guy who didnt produce with crazy measurables. Mccullers doesnt have crazy measurables he is just a big SEC NT

Yeah I know ... I was just being arbitrary for the sake arbitrariness.

But you do realize McCullers is one back spasm away from collecting disability for the rest of his life, right?

Redeyejedi
12-24-2012, 09:21 AM
I'd rather get a DC who can run a 4-3 dependably and aggressively.They were aggressive yesterday how did that work out

Redeyejedi
12-24-2012, 09:22 AM
Yeah I know ... I was just being arbitrary for the sake arbitrariness.

But you do realize McCullers is one back spasm away from collecting disability for the rest of his life, right? Yeah I dont want to draft him I just wanted to post a picture of how big he is.

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 09:24 AM
They were aggressive yesterday how did that work out

They weren't aggressive in the least. I'm not talking about the token LBer blitz that came straight from the Sheridan School of Blitzing. The secondary was playing cushion all night. CWeb had help over the top twice! No stunting whatsoever.

That isn't aggressive ... that's passive aggressive.

GMENAGAIN
12-24-2012, 09:24 AM
I'd rather get a DC who can run a 4-3 dependably and aggressively.

or some players who can play defense . . . .

Redeyejedi
12-24-2012, 09:35 AM
They weren't aggressive in the least. I'm not talking about the token LBer blitz that came straight from the Sheridan School of Blitzing. The secondary was playing cushion all night. CWeb had help over the top twice! No stunting whatsoever.

That isn't aggressive ... that's passive aggressive. I disagree I think its complaining for the sake of complaining the truth is there isnt enough fire and talent healthy or not for that defense to be successful with anything

RoanokeFan
12-24-2012, 09:36 AM
This guy would certainly help clog up the A Gaps. Teams would go uptempo so they couldnt substitute him in or out

If I recall correctly, always iffy, the last NT we had was Jim Burt. He was built like a fire plug at 6'1", 255 lbs. It wasn't his size but his motor that made him successful. Today, he'd never be able to handle the job with the wide bodies he'd have to take on.

GMENAGAIN
12-24-2012, 10:04 AM
We are very close to a decent 3-4 team and with Osi and tuck being useless now, the transition wont move us away from our strengths anymore.

Dline: JPP, Draft/FA NT, Canty

LB: Draft/FA OLB, Kiwi, Boley, JWill

I can see nice exotic blitz schemes and good run stuffing with a front 7 built like that. I hope we move in that direction.

We couldn't be farther from having a "decent" 3-4 team

CDN_G-FAN
12-24-2012, 10:08 AM
We couldn't be farther from having a "decent" 3-4 team

word.