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Kruunch
12-24-2012, 08:59 AM
If there was one aspect of this game I could blame on a single person, I'd feel much better about my Giants this morning. Unfortunately there isn't. I mean who can you blame? The blame doesn't lie solely with Corey Webster getting thrown at like he's an old tire. It doesn't lie solely with our LBers' arm slapping in place of tackling. It doesn't lie in our vaunted pass rush being MIA. It doesn't lie in our QB being inconsistent and indecisive. It doesn't lie in our wide receivers dropping everything but their jocks. It doesn't lie in our lack of a run game. It doesn't lie in the fact that we couldn't convert a 3rd down or that we had the ball for about 5 minutes in total. It doesn't lie in the offensive game plan that has become so one dimensional that my ten year old daughter was guessing the play calls before they were snapped. It doesn't lie in a defensive game plan so gentle, Gandhi would have approved.

So where does the blame lie? Well ... when every facet of a team breaks down mentally and physically as completely as the Giants' did yesterday, you have to blame the guy at the top of the pyramid ... Tom Coughlin.

I loves me my TC, but man was this team not ready to play or what. There will be (and has been) a ton of screaming for coaches to get fired; OCs and DCs and HCs and after the last two weeks, how can you blame the fans for being so furious with their defending champions?! There are no fickle fans today. You want KG gone? GOOD! You want PF gone?! GOOD! You want TC gone?! HELL YEAH! If you're not moving forward, you're going backwards and the Giants definitely took a giant step back this year. Onward and upward!

But after all is said and done and no matter what happens moving forward, I will always look fondly upon this coaching staff as the ones who once, seemingly long ago now but not really, had enough fairy dust to make magic happen.

P.S. - And yet, I still look forward to next week because there is an infinitesimal chance the Giants could still make the post season and if there's a chance .... :D

thegreatone
12-24-2012, 09:38 AM
I love Tommy c but I am so tired of the inconsistency

Morehead State
12-24-2012, 09:44 AM
If there was one aspect of this game I could blame on a single person, I'd feel much better about my Giants this morning. Unfortunately there isn't. I mean who can you blame? The blame doesn't lie solely with Corey Webster getting thrown at like he's an old tire. It doesn't lie solely with our LBers' arm slapping in place of tackling. It doesn't lie in our vaunted pass rush being MIA. It doesn't lie in our QB being inconsistent and indecisive. It doesn't lie in our wide receivers dropping everything but their jocks. It doesn't lie in our lack of a run game. It doesn't lie in the fact that we couldn't convert a 3rd down or that we had the ball for about 5 minutes in total. It doesn't lie in the offensive game plan that has become so one dimensional that my ten year old daughter was guessing the play calls before they were snapped. It doesn't lie in a defensive game plan so gentle, Gandhi would have approved.

So where does the blame lie? Well ... when every facet of a team breaks down mentally and physically as completely as the Giants' did yesterday, you have to blame the guy at the top of the pyramid ... Tom Coughlin.

I loves me my TC, but man was this team not ready to play or what. There will be (and has been) a ton of screaming for coaches to get fired; OCs and DCs and HCs and after the last two weeks, how can you blame the fans for being so furious with their defending champions?! There are no fickle fans today. You want KG gone? GOOD! You want PF gone?! GOOD! You want TC gone?! HELL YEAH! If you're not moving forward, you're going backwards and the Giants definitely took a giant step back this year. Onward and upward!

But after all is said and done and no matter what happens moving forward, I will always look fondly upon this coaching staff as the ones who once, seemingly long ago now but not really, had enough fairy dust to make magic happen.

P.S. - And yet, I still look forward to next week because there is an infinitesimal chance the Giants could still make the post season and if there's a chance .... :D
For whatever reason, this team has quit on TC as often or more as its risen up.
They quite in one form or another in 2009, 2010 and now in 2012.
I have said it in the past and I will repeat it now. How is it that this "disciplinarian" can coach a team that is capable of playing with such little discipline?

stormblue
12-24-2012, 09:45 AM
"a defensive game plan so gentle, Gandhi would have approved."

you deserve a Nobel Prize nomination for that one.

giantscolombia
12-24-2012, 09:54 AM
I AGREE WITH THIS POST!

I think it makes it that much harder as fans to not be able to point our fingers at one player, or unit.

unfortunately, it seems TC has loss handle on this "train"

Morehead State
12-24-2012, 09:54 AM
"a defensive game plan so gentle, Gandhi would have approved."

you deserve a Nobel Prize nomination for that one.
While I'm one who almost always blames execution and not the scheme, in this case (while the execution sucked) the scheme also sucked.
Oh yeah...someone please tell Eli that on a direct snap, PLEASE DON"T JUMP IN THE AIR AS IF ITS A HIGH SNAP...IT TELEGRAPHS TO THE DEFENSE THAT ITS A DIRECT SNAP!!!!!!!!!!!

Just venting. Every member of this team sucked, right down to the ball boys. There is quit in this team and the leadership here sucks.

rebelfan1966
12-24-2012, 09:58 AM
I dont know, I thought the ball boy was having a MVP season... lol

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 10:12 AM
I love Tommy c but I am so tired of the inconsistency

Yeah I'm right there with you.

Strahan commented earlier this year that he didn't think the Giants under TC would ever be a great regular season team, simply because he's so demanding (players get tired and tune him out after awhile). He wasn't being a downer about TC, just stating his thinking behind the mid-season swoons.

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 10:13 AM
While I'm one who almost always blames execution and not the scheme, in this case (while the execution sucked) the scheme also sucked.
Oh yeah...someone please tell Eli that on a direct snap, PLEASE DON"T JUMP IN THE AIR AS IF ITS A HIGH SNAP...IT TELEGRAPHS TO THE DEFENSE THAT ITS A DIRECT SNAP!!!!!!!!!!!

Just venting. Every member of this team sucked, right down to the ball boys. There is quit in this team and the leadership here sucks.

I think he got this from the Tom Brady School of Acting.

Morehead State
12-24-2012, 10:17 AM
I think he got this from the Tom Brady School of Acting.
Its just stupid. When he makes that ridiculous jump I immediately know what the play is. How stupid is that move?

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 10:24 AM
For whatever reason, this team has quit on TC as often or more as its risen up.
They quite in one form or another in 2009, 2010 and now in 2012.
I have said it in the past and I will repeat it now. How is it that this "disciplinarian" can coach a team that is capable of playing with such little discipline?

I've found that this team, under TC has had equal measures of strong regular seasons, miracle seasons and season ending slumps.

2004 ... call that a wash being the inaugural year but ended in a definite mid-season swoon, blamed on starting Eli over Kurt Warner mid-season.

2005 ... 11-5 and take the NFCE ...strong year with a horrendous playoff game against the Panthers. One of the very few seasons we didn't have a mid-season swoon.

2006 ... mid-season swoon followed by backing into the playoffs (much like this year if we manage to get to the post season at this point). One and done.

2007 ... mid-season swoon followed by one of the most amazing runs in NFL history.

2008 ... most dominant regular season under TC ... started to swoon after Plax shot himself but got back up to win the #1 seed by beating the Panthers late in the season. One and done in the playoffs.

2009 ... mid-season swoon starts early this year due to horrendous defense (5-0 to start and 3-8 down the stretch). Blamed on defense primarily with Sheridan getting the sack (rightfully so).

2010 ... mid-season swoon followed by disappointing break downs in must-win games down the stretch. Finish an empty 10-6 but no play offs.

2011 ... mid-season swoon followed by another miracle run to the SB. Team does a 180 in play once in the post season and dominates defensively.

2012 ... mid-season swoon, most of which is happening in December instead of November this time which looks to end our season at 9-7 / 8-8 and no play offs.

The only consistency from this team is the mid-season swoon which has happened all but two years under TC. The swoon itself doesn't seem to impact whether we A) don't make the playoffs, B) make the playoffs and go one and done, or C) make a miracle run through the post season and win the SB.

Frankly it's baffling.

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 10:25 AM
Its just stupid. When he makes that ridiculous jump I immediately know what the play is. How stupid is that move?

Very.

But I happen to think that "selling a play" is an art form that's been lost in the NFL for quite awhile (on both sides of the ball).

Morehead State
12-24-2012, 10:28 AM
Very.

But I happen to think that "selling a play" is an art form that's been lost in the NFL for quite awhile.
The best way to sell that play is to look like you're taking a normal shotgun snap.
Its just stupid. If KG is telling him to do that he needs to say no from here on.

rebelfan1966
12-24-2012, 10:30 AM
Its a move taught to kids from pop warner all the way through college and into the pros...... just saying

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 10:32 AM
The best way to sell that play is to look like you're taking a normal shotgun snap.
Its just stupid. If KG is telling him to do that he needs to say no from here on.

While it's annoying, that's probably the least of what bugged me yesterday.

Warning ... I'm about to start ranting about David Wilson only getting three carries last night.

Because his blocking is any worse than what AB or Lumpkin was doing?! GRRRR!!!

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 10:32 AM
Its a move taught to kids from pop warner all the way through college and into the pros...... just saying

That's must be a new thing, because when I went to college they were teaching the QBs to treat that play as a roll out in the opposite direction (to imitate the waggle play).

rebelfan1966
12-24-2012, 10:34 AM
When I played, it was designed to look like a bad snap to confuse the defense.

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 10:35 AM
When I played, it was designed to look like a bad snap to confuse the defense.

Except for Brady, I don't think I've ever seen another QB do that in the NFL.

Morehead State
12-24-2012, 10:36 AM
When I played, it was designed to look like a bad snap to confuse the defense.
When is the last time you saw a Giants center snap the ball over the QB's head? Its a stupid move. The best way to sell the play is to act as if you're taking the snap normally. Once Eli jumps the defense knows exactly what's coming.

stormblue
12-24-2012, 10:39 AM
his stubbornness does not allow him to see his own shortcomings.
he firmly believes all failures arise from lack of execution or player mistakes.

he refuses to critique the coaching methods and game-plan.

he wastes to much time on motivational speakers and RAH -RAH sessions and psychological approaches to problems....
when he and his staff should at least consider the fact that the reason it looks good in practice is because its
just padless walk-throughs of what you always practice.

as anyone seen an obvious change in plan or scheme on offense or defense to attack any opponent specifically ?

no. we do what we do and if it fails it's always because the player did not execute...or was un-motivated.
even when he says they need to coach better he refers to motivation....not x's and o's
this staff refuses to think the other team's scheme might be a deterrent or that its players and coaches also get a paycheck..
or just might have prepared for the same old stuff that looked good in practice.

rebelfan1966
12-24-2012, 10:39 AM
Well.... I don't know what to say, not going to argue it either way.... I understand the concept but obviously if the other teams has done a good job scouting you, they understand it as well.

GMENAGAIN
12-24-2012, 10:41 AM
For whatever reason, this team has quit on TC as often or more as its risen up.
They quite in one form or another in 2009, 2010 and now in 2012.
I have said it in the past and I will repeat it now. How is it that this "disciplinarian" can coach a team that is capable of playing with such little discipline?

If players are just not good anymore (Tuck, Osi, Webster, Snee), does that mean that they "quit"? Snee is playing with a torn hip labrum for crying out loud.

It's too easy to say that the players quit when we have a bad loss. I think that the simple answer is that we are losing because our best players are on the downside of their careers and can't perform consistently anymore, and some of the younger talented players (Nicks, Phillips) are always injured.

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 10:44 AM
his stubbornness does not allow him to see his own shortcomings.
he firmly believes all failures arise from lack of execution or player mistakes.

he refuses to critique the coaching methods and game-plan.

he wastes to much time on motivational speakers and RAH -RAH sessions and psychological approaches to problems....
when he and his staff should at least consider the fact that the reason it looks good in practice is because its
just padless walk-throughs of what you always practice.

as anyone seen an obvious change in plan or scheme on offense or defense to attack any opponent specifically ?

no. we do what we do and if it fails it's always because the player did not execute...or was un-motivated.
even when he says they need to coach better he refers to motivation....not x's and o's
this staff refuses to think the other team's scheme might be a deterrent or that its players and coaches also get a paycheck..
or might be prepared for the stuff that looked good in practice.

New England is the only team that orchestrates a new offense week to week and even that isn't entirely true.

The Giants' offense has migrated to the strengths of its players despite popular opinion. We used to be the best screen team in the NFL when we had Tiki. We became one of the best hot-read teams from 2007-2010 (Eli burned blitzes constantly). We became a pure vertical team in 2011 (and this year) with the emergence of Cruz and Nicks.

I'd like to see us get back to our hot-read offense, since it was the most balanced (if we can ever get our run game going again).

Having said that, if I were thinking about making a move in OCs, I would do it the second the season is over and throw a ton of money at Norv Turner. I doubt the Giants will do that but if you're looking ahead for the good of the franchise, I think that's the right way to go.

Morehead State
12-24-2012, 10:46 AM
If players are just not good anymore (Tuck, Osi, Webster, Snee), does that mean that they "quit"? Snee is playing with a torn hip labrum for crying out loud.

It's too easy to say that the players quit when we have a bad loss. I think that the simple answer is that we are losing because our best players are on the downside of their careers and can't perform consistently anymore, and some of the younger talented players (Nicks, Phillips) are always injured.
So they just stopped being good players in the past few weeks. they were great players when we handed GB and SF their worst losses of their seasons.
I agree that these players are on the decline. But this team is capable of playing hard and staying in games. They did neither in the past 2 games.
They get hit hard early and then they lose their edge. And that edge is what determines results in games.

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 10:47 AM
If players are just not good anymore (Tuck, Osi, Webster, Snee), does that mean that they "quit"? Snee is playing with a torn hip labrum for crying out loud.

It's too easy to say that the players quit when we have a bad loss. I think that the simple answer is that we are losing because our best players are on the downside of their careers and can't perform consistently anymore, and some of the younger talented players (Nicks, Phillips) are always injured.

All of a sudden this team goes from being one of the most talented teams in the NFL to one of the least talented, in one season?

I don't buy that.

I agree that some players are on the downside of their careers but that doesn't explain a total collapse like we've seen in the past two weeks. Especially since we've seen this same group dominate this year as well.

Rudyy
12-24-2012, 10:49 AM
All of a sudden this team goes from being one of the most talented teams in the NFL to one of the least talented, in one season?I don't buy that.I agree that some players are on the downside of their careers but that doesn't explain a total collapse like we've seen in the past two weeks. Especially since we've seen this same group dominate this year as well.Been saying this the last few weeks.

Roosevelt
12-24-2012, 10:51 AM
If there was one aspect of this game I could blame on a single person, I'd feel much better about my Giants this morning. Unfortunately there isn't. I mean who can you blame? The blame doesn't lie solely with Corey Webster getting thrown at like he's an old tire. It doesn't lie solely with our LBers' arm slapping in place of tackling. It doesn't lie in our vaunted pass rush being MIA. It doesn't lie in our QB being inconsistent and indecisive. It doesn't lie in our wide receivers dropping everything but their jocks. It doesn't lie in our lack of a run game. It doesn't lie in the fact that we couldn't convert a 3rd down or that we had the ball for about 5 minutes in total. It doesn't lie in the offensive game plan that has become so one dimensional that my ten year old daughter was guessing the play calls before they were snapped. It doesn't lie in a defensive game plan so gentle, Gandhi would have approved.

So where does the blame lie? Well ... when every facet of a team breaks down mentally and physically as completely as the Giants' did yesterday, you have to blame the guy at the top of the pyramid ... Tom Coughlin.

I loves me my TC, but man was this team not ready to play or what. There will be (and has been) a ton of screaming for coaches to get fired; OCs and DCs and HCs and after the last two weeks, how can you blame the fans for being so furious with their defending champions?! There are no fickle fans today. You want KG gone? GOOD! You want PF gone?! GOOD! You want TC gone?! HELL YEAH! If you're not moving forward, you're going backwards and the Giants definitely took a giant step back this year. Onward and upward!

But after all is said and done and no matter what happens moving forward, I will always look fondly upon this coaching staff as the ones who once, seemingly long ago now but not really, had enough fairy dust to make magic happen.

P.S. - And yet, I still look forward to next week because there is an infinitesimal chance the Giants could still make the post season and if there's a chance .... :D

Good post man.

I can't believe I'm reading the paper this morning looking for the Giants playoff scenario...

What a season gone to waste.

2012 was a team with so much talent, but not enough heart.

GMENAGAIN
12-24-2012, 10:55 AM
Good post man.

I can't believe I'm reading the paper this morning looking for the Giants playoff scenario...

What a season gone to waste.

2012 was a team with so much talent, but not enough heart.

So much talent? Where exactly do you see that?

GMENAGAIN
12-24-2012, 10:59 AM
So they just stopped being good players in the past few weeks. they were great players when we handed GB and SF their worst losses of their seasons.
I agree that these players are on the decline. But this team is capable of playing hard and staying in games. They did neither in the past 2 games.
They get hit hard early and then they lose their edge. And that edge is what determines results in games.

The thing that players on the decline lose is consistency. They can still put together some good performances here and there, but they can't consistently perform at a high level any more. That's our team this year.

It's no coincidence that one of our best performances was after a bye week that gave our older players on the downside some extra time to heal and get strong.

Morehead State
12-24-2012, 10:59 AM
So much talent? Where exactly do you see that?
I agree that we don't have the talent some think we have. We do however have better talent and experience than we demonstrated this season and especially these past 2 weeks.
We are good enough to make the playoffs and offer strong competition to other teams in the playoffs.

Morehead State
12-24-2012, 11:00 AM
The thing that players on the decline lose is consistency. They can still put together some good performances here and there, but they can't consistently perform at a high level any more. That's our team this year.

It's no coincidence that one of our best performances was after a bye week that gave our older players on the downside some extra time to heal and get strong.
All at once?
Every player plays badly together? I disagree. That's a rationalization for our bad play.

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 11:02 AM
I agree that we don't have the talent some think we have. We do however have better talent and experience than we demonstrated this season and especially these past 2 weeks.
We are good enough to make the playoffs and offer strong competition to other teams in the playoffs.

I tend to agree with this.

Yes we have players on the down side.

Yes, a bunch of our players have been over hyped in the past.

However we are a talented team ... it's just a matter of motivating and utilizing that talent correctly.

When you have such a sweeping breakdown in team play, you HAVE to look at the coaching.

stormblue
12-24-2012, 11:07 AM
Good post man.

I can't believe I'm reading the paper this morning looking for the Giants playoff scenario...

What a season gone to waste.

2012 was a team with so much talent, but not enough heart.


"but not enough heart.'

i was actually watching the "Replacements" yesterday.....got sick of all the the talking heads.
corny movie....but Hackman is always good.......and i love the pole dancer cheerleaders....classic.

OX1
12-24-2012, 11:14 AM
I'd like to see us get back to our hot-read offense, since it was the most balanced (if we can ever get our run game going again).


The problem with KG (and TC if he is not encouraging KG to change it up)
is that change was not an option this year. It had to be done with our O-line.

Why is it Eli only tosses it forward over the impending D-line when it is the last resort
and he has little control over the throw at that point. You see teams sometimes let the rush/blitz
come on purpose, then toss it over the D-line's heads to a freed up a running back that is now
standing by himself. Just one of many plays they obviously NEVER use or even practice from
the looks of it.

OX1
12-24-2012, 11:17 AM
I agree that we don't have the talent some think we have. We do however have better talent and experience than we demonstrated this season and especially these past 2 weeks.
We are good enough to make the playoffs and offer strong competition to other teams in the playoffs.

Not on O-line running KG's scheme. Need a killer O-line or ditch KG (since he won't change his scheme)........
The rest of the O has a crapload of talent, IMO............

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 11:20 AM
The problem with KG (and TC if he is not encouraging KG to change it up)
is that change was not an option this year. It had to be done with our O-line.

Why is it Eli only tosses it forward over the impending D-line when it is the last resort
and he has little control over the throw at that point. You see teams sometimes let the rush/blitz
come on purpose, then toss it over the D-line's heads to a freed up a running back that is now
standing by himself. Just one of many plays they obviously NEVER use or even practice from
the looks of it.

Yeah I agree ... they have been far too reliant on the long outs and go routes this year. However you look at half of our games this season, and that offense has worked like a charm (Packers, 49ers, Saints, Bucs, Panthers, Browns, etc ...). So I can see why he didn't deviate far from it.

Not all strategies are good ones and changing up a team offense isn't as easy as dialing up new plays (just playing Devil's Advocate here). While I grit my teeth sometimes, it is what it is.

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 11:23 AM
Not on O-line running KG's scheme. Need a killer O-line or ditch KG (since he won't change his scheme)........
The rest of the O has a crapload of talent, IMO............

Nicks hasn't been a "talent" this year. Cruz disappears in double coverage (or in other words, he's come back down to earth). Hixon showed you why he's a third receiver and Bennett showed you why the Cowboys let him go.

"Talent" has little to do with it. It's focus and execution ... neither of which the Giants offense (or defense) had last night. Without those, the most talented team in the NFL couldn't win (heh look at the Saints).

GMENAGAIN
12-24-2012, 11:24 AM
All at once?
Every player plays badly together? I disagree. That's a rationalization for our bad play.

Well, has Webster played well this year? Has Tuck? Has Osi? Has Nicks? Has Snee? Has KP?

I think that Tuck's last hurrah was last year. He played poorly all season and finally came alive for the stretch run. The guy just can't stay healthy enough to contribute on a consistent basis.

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 11:31 AM
Well, has Webster played well this year? Has Tuck? Has Osi? Has Nicks? Has Snee? Has KP?

I think that Tuck's last hurrah was last year. He played poorly all season and finally came alive for the stretch run. The guy just can't stay healthy enough to contribute on a consistent basis.

Webster has played well at time this year. The Packers game pretty much sums up CWeb's season ... give up the obvious TD in the beginning of the game and then proceeds to lock down one of the best offensive teams in the NFL. But we've seen off and on years from CWeb before. I can't tell you if this is the beginning of the end or just another valley in CWebs career. I can say that I don't believe that you go from being one of the top 3 CBs in the league one year (2011) to one of the worst the following year. Then again, there is Namdi .... shrug.

Tuck is done, I agree. Osi is done (at least with the Giants) I would think. Snee hasn't been at a pro-bowl level for a couple of years now. I'd be looking for his replacement soon. Nicks has been hurt. KP has been awesome when he's been in ... unfortunately he's been hurt a lot as well.

None of those guys are why we got so man handled the last two weeks. I would say they're symptoms of a bigger problem.

GMENAGAIN
12-24-2012, 11:37 AM
Webster has played well at time this year. The Packers game pretty much sums up CWeb's season ... give up the obvious TD in the beginning of the game and then proceeds to lock down one of the best offensive teams in the NFL. But we've seen off and on years from CWeb before. I can't tell you if this is the beginning of the end or just another valley in CWebs career. I can say that I don't believe that you go from being one of the top 3 CBs in the league one year (2011) to one of the worst the following year. Then again, there is Namdi .... shrug.

Tuck is done, I agree. Osi is done (at least with the Giants) I would think. Snee hasn't been at a pro-bowl level for a couple of years now. I'd be looking for his replacement soon. Nicks has been hurt. KP has been awesome when he's been in ... unfortunately he's been hurt a lot as well.

None of those guys are why we got so man handled the last two weeks. I would say they're symptoms of a bigger problem.

You just conceded that most of our main players have not contributed this year for one reason or the other. How is that not THE problem?

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 11:45 AM
You just conceded that most of our main players have not contributed this year for one reason or the other. How is that not THE problem?

Because good coaching is what keeps players motivated when they can't find their own motivation (and that will happen to every player sooner or later).

But I've watched Tuck and Osi all year. They play. They play hard. It's not like watching Albert Haynesworth flopping down and staying down. As much as a player has to execute, the player has to be put in a position to win.

Can you name one stunt or twist the Giants have done on defense this year? A snatch blitz or full front jam? And overload blitz or CB blitz? If you watch the snaps, they go through the same motions EVERY snap with barely a change in the scheme. If it isn't working, it's going to wear on you greatly over the course of the season. I believe this is one of the largest reasons why our vaunted pass rush hasn't shown up this year. Not the entire reason ... just the largest one.

Offensively, we've been one dimensional all year. Sort of the inverse of the Pats last year ... where they were all dink and dunk with no long game, we've been all long game with no dink and dunk (short game). Not hard to defend once you've figured that out. Add to that, a doubled WR here, and hurt WR there, an inconsistent QB ... and all of a sudden what worked last year (and at times this year) has stopped working.

Is that one players fault? Is that a coordinators fault for bad scheming? Is that a head coach's fault for lack of motivating and staying on top of his coordinators? Is that a GM's fault (for not getting better depth) and coaching?

So while I don't totally disagree with what you are saying, I don't entirely agree with it either. And I think scheme and motivation (or lack thereof) have more to do with the outcome of our 2012 season, than players suddenly becoming "bad".

But I'm as full of **** as anyone, so take that how you will.

GMENAGAIN
12-24-2012, 12:16 PM
Because good coaching is what keeps players motivated when they can't find their own motivation (and that will happen to every player sooner or later).

But I've watched Tuck and Osi all year. They play. They play hard. It's not like watching Albert Haynesworth flopping down and staying down. As much as a player has to execute, the player has to be put in a position to win.

Can you name one stunt or twist the Giants have done on defense this year? A snatch blitz or full front jam? And overload blitz or CB blitz? If you watch the snaps, they go through the same motions EVERY snap with barely a change in the scheme. If it isn't working, it's going to wear on you greatly over the course of the season. I believe this is one of the largest reasons why our vaunted pass rush hasn't shown up this year. Not the entire reason ... just the largest one.

Offensively, we've been one dimensional all year. Sort of the inverse of the Pats last year ... where they were all dink and dunk with no long game, we've been all long game with no dink and dunk (short game). Not hard to defend once you've figured that out. Add to that, a doubled WR here, and hurt WR there, an inconsistent QB ... and all of a sudden what worked last year (and at times this year) has stopped working.

Is that one players fault? Is that a coordinators fault for bad scheming? Is that a head coach's fault for lack of motivating and staying on top of his coordinators? Is that a GM's fault (for not getting better depth) and coaching?

So while I don't totally disagree with what you are saying, I don't entirely agree with it either. And I think scheme and motivation (or lack thereof) have more to do with the outcome of our 2012 season, than players suddenly becoming "bad".

But I'm as full of **** as anyone, so take that how you will.

Same here . . . I don't totally disagree with what you're saying either. Certainly, the second half pattern that we have developed over the years is something that our coaches should have figured out by now. It's a combination of key players not contributing, coaching, and not getting enough contributors from recent drafts. I just put the blame more on the key players not contributing and the weakness of our roster outside of the key players.

Have a good holiday.

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 12:23 PM
Same here . . . I don't totally disagree with what you're saying either. Certainly, the second half pattern that we have developed over the years is something that our coaches should have figured out by now. It's a combination of key players not contributing, coaching, and not getting enough contributors from recent drafts. I just put the blame more on the key players not contributing and the weakness of our roster outside of the key players.

Have a good holiday.

And a very merry to you as well :)

Roosevelt
12-24-2012, 01:12 PM
So much talent? Where exactly do you see that?

I expected better seasons from:

Eli, Cruz, Boothe, Bradshaw, Bennett, Barden, Hixon, Jernigan, Osi, Tuck, JPP, Canty, Joseph, Austin, Boley, Rivers, Webster and Herzlich.

Roosevelt
12-24-2012, 01:17 PM
I agree that we don't have the talent some think we have. We do however have better talent and experience than we demonstrated this season and especially these past 2 weeks.
We are good enough to make the playoffs and offer strong competition to other teams in the playoffs.

We have enough talent to beat anybody MS. But so do a lot of other teams.

Roosevelt
12-24-2012, 01:19 PM
"but not enough heart.'

i was actually watching the "Replacements" yesterday.....got sick of all the the talking heads.
corny movie....but Hackman is always good.......and i love the pole dancer cheerleaders....classic.

Never saw it.

OX1
12-24-2012, 01:30 PM
Yeah I agree ... they have been far too reliant on the long outs and go routes this year. However you look at half of our games this season, and that offense has worked like a charm (Packers, 49ers, Saints, Bucs, Panthers, Browns, etc ...). So I can see why he didn't deviate far from it.

Not all strategies are good ones and changing up a team offense isn't as easy as dialing up new plays (just playing Devil's Advocate here). While I grit my teeth sometimes, it is what it is.

KG should have been dialing up a short game before preseason as soon as he realized we did not get
the killer O-line we needed. It's not like our red zone offense was even over the top last year and that could have helped address
it. If his offense is SO complex the players can't practice and remember a couple more screen type plays, then
it still goes back on him. Adapt or die, and he chose the latter.............

TroyArcher
12-24-2012, 02:25 PM
TC is the head coach and ultimately responsible. I believe his biggest issue (along with Reese) was not recognizing the lack of leadership on this team. Something that needs to be addressed immediately.

GMENAGAIN
12-24-2012, 09:58 PM
I expected better seasons from:

Eli, Cruz, Boothe, Bradshaw, Bennett, Barden, Hixon, Jernigan, Osi, Tuck, JPP, Canty, Joseph, Austin, Boley, Rivers, Webster and Herzlich.

You're reaching . . . . Bennett, Boothe, Barden, Hixon, and Joseph are mediocre on their best days. Jernigan, Austin and Herzlich have shown no NFL talent whatsoever. Osi, Tuck and Webster on on the downside of their careers.

Mr. G-Man
12-24-2012, 10:55 PM
perry fewell is a dc looking for turnovers, which means a lot of baiting the offense, which has seemed to backfire much more frequently than anything else. our players deserve a hard-nosed attacking scheme

Mr. G-Man
12-24-2012, 11:00 PM
and with all the zone switching, the players are forced to think too much instead of instinctively reacting to the game. our d scheme is taking away their chance to play the game as players instead it turns them into mindless boobs following orders

radar-ray
12-25-2012, 12:07 AM
and with all the zone switching, the players are forced to think too much instead of instinctively reacting to the game. our d scheme is taking away their chance to play the game as players instead it turns them into mindless boobs following orders Rod Rust + Johnnie Lynne = P Fewell. This defensive scheme has always suck, and doesn't fit the D personel on our team.

bearbryant
12-25-2012, 12:55 AM
Some very astute observations. But bottom line is the HC is responsible for the W or the L. Furthermore, he responsible to make sure he has the "groceries" to enable the OC, DC and ST's men to get those W's. Guess what, they all failed, not just this year but going back ever since JR has come on board as the GM. He got nothing from TC, no slaps, no " I need this or that", nothing. So the guys tuned out, this is the NFL today! Tuck is done, his injury a couple of years ago finished him and OSI well, you've watched him... Think another team will pay for a situational Pass rusher who isn't one, really?

Secondly, KG has been riding the gravy train ever since he saved TC's ***! But his inabilities to put these guys in the position to W, was shameful! Along with that our FA signings will be felt for a long time. Canty, baas, rolle; each one overpaid or underperformed whatever you'd like! This team needs to play football not paddycakes. Due to other issues, Eli couldn't get the train going this year. He's regressing, too!

Same thing goes for PF, a horrible showing of a coach not doing anything for a defensive unit to have a chance. But it all can't be shouldered by PF since he had to cook with the vidals he had ( no LB's). Thats where Spags was so good. He kept throwing stuff on the wall till it worked and kept the other guys unbalanced! Now along with that I get the talent getting long in the tooth but read the first paragraph! God, Our LB corp was so bad we took a first round DE and turned him into a LB and then we tried to spin it with that best guys on the field, BS. UGHHHHHHHHH!

The reason why tommy doesn't have an answer is due to what the real answer is. He can't believe this stuff, he made it!! Yes, we were very fortunate in coming out with 2 S.B. rings. and if it wasn't for a functioning pass rush, a QB who did deserve the MVP in 2011 and the Pats TE being injured, last year probably doesn't happen. What's needed? Take an honest look, you can see! Do you believe that this current franchise is capable of competing in todays league? I don't. But there is a draft coming up and thats a good thing. Oh I'll watch the game. I love beating the Eagles!

GMENAGAIN
12-25-2012, 01:28 AM
Some very astute observations. But bottom line is the HC is responsible for the W or the L. Furthermore, he responsible to make sure he has the "groceries" to enable the OC, DC and ST's men to get those W's. Guess what, they all failed, not just this year but going back ever since JR has come on board as the GM. He got nothing from TC, no slaps, no " I need this or that", nothing. So the guys tuned out, this is the NFL today! Tuck is done, his injury a couple of years ago finished him and OSI well, you've watched him... Think another team will pay for a situational Pass rusher who isn't one, really?

Secondly, KG has been riding the gravy train ever since he saved TC's ***! But his inabilities to put these guys in the position to W, was shameful! Along with that our FA signings will be felt for a long time. Canty, baas, rolle; each one overpaid or underperformed whatever you'd like! This team needs to play football not paddycakes. Due to other issues, Eli couldn't get the train going this year. He's regressing, too!

Same thing goes for PF, a horrible showing of a coach not doing anything for a defensive unit to have a chance. But it all can't be shouldered by PF since he had to cook with the vidals he had ( no LB's). Thats where Spags was so good. He kept throwing stuff on the wall till it worked and kept the other guys unbalanced! Now along with that I get the talent getting long in the tooth but read the first paragraph! God, Our LB corp was so bad we took a first round DE and turned him into a LB and then we tried to spin it with that best guys on the field, BS. UGHHHHHHHHH!

The reason why tommy doesn't have an answer is due to what the real answer is. He can't believe this stuff, he made it!! Yes, we were very fortunate in coming out with 2 S.B. rings. and if it wasn't for a functioning pass rush, a QB who did deserve the MVP in 2011 and the Pats TE being injured, last year probably doesn't happen. What's needed? Take an honest look, you can see! Do you believe that this current franchise is capable of competing in todays league? I don't. But there is a draft coming up and thats a good thing. Oh I'll watch the game. I love beating the Eagles!

Put down the pipe . . . Santa will be here soon.

GMENAGAIN
12-25-2012, 01:29 AM
perry fewell is a dc looking for turnovers, which means a lot of baiting the offense, which has seemed to backfire much more frequently than anything else. our players deserve a hard-nosed attacking scheme

Our players deserve nothing. Our coaches deserve for the players to not suck.