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View Full Version : The tenure system needs to stop



Toadofsteel
12-24-2012, 09:24 AM
This is my main beef with Coughlin. Veterans who have been here for a long while always know that they get to play. TC will always go to the one that's been here longer and let superior talent rot on the bench. Furthermore, he's a lot more forgiving of his veterans making mistakes, while one rookie infraction will land you in the doghouse for several games (at least). I think this is contributing to our second-half collapses a lot more than you may think. Veteran starters know that their jobs are secure, so they have no real desire to play. Rookies and backups know that they are being unfairly judged against in favor of said starters, so they begin tuning out the coaching staff.

Rookies and FA pickups need to have legitimate shots to surpass the established starters during the season. Benching Locklear for Diehl when both were healthy was unacceptable. Giving Wilson 5 snaps maximum in games where he's the offense's best weapon, while subsequently running Bradshaw into the ground is beyond the definition of insanity, especially when Wilson gets pulled after getting trucked on a block, while Bradshaw gets to whiff blocks entirely.
Otherwise, I really like TC, and wish that he could do better, but if firing him is the only way to get rid of this tenure system, we unfortunately have to make the change...

nygpolishpunk
12-24-2012, 09:26 AM
you read my mind

Toadofsteel
12-24-2012, 09:27 AM
That IS my main gripe on TC, to be honest.

nygpolishpunk
12-24-2012, 09:29 AM
Its a part of being an old school coach

CDN_G-FAN
12-24-2012, 09:43 AM
i can't agree with this, and it flies in the face of alot of what's been written about this coaching staff.

Coughlin's teams are consistently referenced as the most likely to have UFA and other cast aways make the roster because the coaching staff just wants the best available players, period.

the entire focus of this loyalty arguement is Wilson, and this coaching staff has established protecting Eli as one of the most important jobs our RBs have. They've done this every year with every young RB we get, and other than the last two years (which i would pin on the line more than the RBs) we've had a great crop of players from deep who contribute way above their position on draft day, and a QB who holds the consecutive start record for his position in the NFL today.

Coughlin doesn't have some misplaced loyalty to bradshaw or any vet. No one has ever successfully questioned TC's desire to win, and the idea that he leaves an obviously better choice on the bench in favour of some older guy out of loyalty just doesn't make any sense.


Eli is worth alot more to this offense than wilson ever will, and its clear from every knowledgable commentator inside the game (collinsworth, aikman, billick, etc) that has spoken to the coaching staff off the record about Wilson that the issue has nothing to do with loyalty to bradshaw, and everything to do with their priority being keeping Eli healthy.

Flip Empty
12-24-2012, 09:54 AM
the entire focus of this loyalty arguement is Wilson,
.
Nope, it's also about Diehl, Tuck, Osi, Webster etc

CDN_G-FAN
12-24-2012, 10:00 AM
Nope, it's also about Diehl, Tuck, Osi, Webster etc


who are the clearly better alternatives for those players that we let rot on the bench out of loyalty.

again, this idea that every problem we have is a coaching problem just exposes the nasty bias of so many fans.

Who were the obvious alternatives for Tuck, Osi, and Webster?

Diehl was benched, they just saved him the embarrassment and frankly media distraction of saying they were benching him.

Locklear breaks his leg after a couple starts where Diehl was 'injured', and then magically the next week diehl says he's 100% health was and ready to go? Really? he wasn't 100% the week before? Whatevs. He was benched.

Flip Empty
12-24-2012, 10:13 AM
Who knows? I'm not the one making those calls. I just know where the OP is coming from. It seems like vets can only lose their job once their contract expires.

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 10:15 AM
This is my main beef with Coughlin. Veterans who have been here for a long while always know that they get to play. TC will always go to the one that's been here longer and let superior talent rot on the bench. Furthermore, he's a lot more forgiving of his veterans making mistakes, while one rookie infraction will land you in the doghouse for several games (at least). I think this is contributing to our second-half collapses a lot more than you may think. Veteran starters know that their jobs are secure, so they have no real desire to play. Rookies and backups know that they are being unfairly judged against in favor of said starters, so they begin tuning out the coaching staff.

Rookies and FA pickups need to have legitimate shots to surpass the established starters during the season. Benching Locklear for Diehl when both were healthy was unacceptable. Giving Wilson 5 snaps maximum in games where he's the offense's best weapon, while subsequently running Bradshaw into the ground is beyond the definition of insanity, especially when Wilson gets pulled after getting trucked on a block, while Bradshaw gets to whiff blocks entirely.
Otherwise, I really like TC, and wish that he could do better, but if firing him is the only way to get rid of this tenure system, we unfortunately have to make the change...

You're confusing consistency for "tenure".

The Giants utilize their talent better than most teams in the league. Why do you think they have such a great reputation for getting super stars out of nowhere? TC's had no problem benching marquis players like Bradshaw and Osi in the past.

And I do agree with you about Wilson ... the only thing I can think of is that he really rubs TC (or KG) the wrong way.

Toadofsteel
12-24-2012, 10:50 AM
who are the clearly better alternatives for those players that we let rot on the bench out of loyalty.

again, this idea that every problem we have is a coaching problem just exposes the nasty bias of so many fans.

Who were the obvious alternatives for Tuck, Osi, and Webster?

Diehl was benched, they just saved him the embarrassment and frankly media distraction of saying they were benching him.

Locklear breaks his leg after a couple starts where Diehl was 'injured', and then magically the next week diehl says he's 100% health was and ready to go? Really? he wasn't 100% the week before? Whatevs. He was benched.

You're telling me that between healthy Diehl and healthy Locklear, you'd take Diehl? Obviously Locklear going down forced the hand, but there were 3 games (including Pitt and Cincy) where a healthy Locklear was riding the pine.

The fact that we didn't even so much as give any rotational snaps to Ojomo or Tracy (and didn't even activate Ojomo for most of the season) means either both are really THAT bad (in which case why did we go 5 DE on our final 53-man instead of picking up another linebacker), or they were just never given a chance to show that they were better...

As for Webby, the fact that Flacco was targeting him over Hosley speaks volumes. If Hosley had been given more experience early on... yeah it would have been a rocky start, but other teams throw their rookies into the fire early on and by the end of the season the good ones have fully adjusted. If we had Prince and Hosley, our secondary would improve dramatically. Alas, Prince was injured, again. Only way Hosley got a start at all was due to injury. Again, no chances even late in the game rotationally, even when we clearly saw that Webster is not what he used to be..

I'm not asking to immediately bench a player merely for having a bad day. I'm asking that we rotate in some of these rookies and FA, get their feet wet at the very least, and if they show they can handle the position, they can win a start. That should motivate the established veterans to continue producing (do your job or get "fired", or more accurately, benched), as well as motivating the younger players more by rewarding good play.

giantscolombia
12-24-2012, 10:57 AM
who are the clearly better alternatives for those players that we let rot on the bench out of loyalty.

again, this idea that every problem we have is a coaching problem just exposes the nasty bias of so many fans.

Who were the obvious alternatives for Tuck, Osi, and Webster?

Diehl was benched, they just saved him the embarrassment and frankly media distraction of saying they were benching him.

Locklear breaks his leg after a couple starts where Diehl was 'injured', and then magically the next week diehl says he's 100% health was and ready to go? Really? he wasn't 100% the week before? Whatevs. He was benched.

Exactly dude, i mean Cweb is playing like a 3rd stringer... who can we replace him for a 3rd stringer. He was not playing like a #1 corner (or #2)

Even if our best option was someone crappy and worse than Cweb its expected for said person to be worse but atleast its expected. Cweb was getting abused, he knew it, the coaches knew it, the fans knew it, and the ravens knew it yet nothing was done...

stormblue
12-24-2012, 11:08 AM
You're telling me that between healthy Diehl and healthy Locklear, you'd take Diehl? Obviously Locklear going down forced the hand, but there were 3 games (including Pitt and Cincy) where a healthy Locklear was riding the pine.

The fact that we didn't even so much as give any rotational snaps to Ojomo or Tracy (and didn't even activate Ojomo for most of the season) means either both are really THAT bad (in which case why did we go 5 DE on our final 53-man instead of picking up another linebacker), or they were just never given a chance to show that they were better...

As for Webby, the fact that Flacco was targeting him over Hosley speaks volumes. If Hosley had been given more experience early on... yeah it would have been a rocky start, but other teams throw their rookies into the fire early on and by the end of the season the good ones have fully adjusted. If we had Prince and Hosley, our secondary would improve dramatically. Alas, Prince was injured, again. Only way Hosley got a start at all was due to injury. Again, no chances even late in the game rotationally, even when we clearly saw that Webster is not what he used to be..

I'm not asking to immediately bench a player merely for having a bad day. I'm asking that we rotate in some of these rookies and FA, get their feet wet at the very least, and if they show they can handle the position, they can win a start. That should motivate the established veterans to continue producing (do your job or get "fired", or more accurately, benched), as well as motivating the younger players more by rewarding good play.

exactly......complete lack of good rotational experience for 2nd and 3rd tier players results in little to no experience when the time comes to use them.
and it also leads to over-reactive re-signing or re-structuring players of declining value....instead of looking forward.

you watch....i bet you a dollar to donut...DD , Webb and Tuck are here next year.
when they have been for all intents and purposes.....way less than stellar, especially with their pay-grade.
Hosely and Ojomo should have gotten way more experience.

and if all they care about is protecting Eli then they should have went o-line instead of Wilson and Randle.

RagTime Blue
12-24-2012, 11:08 AM
I think a telling fact is when our starters do get cut, many of them can't find a job anywhere in the league (O'Hara, Toomer). Jacobs couldn't find the playing field in SF, and we'll see how much Osi plays next year.

RoanokeFan
12-24-2012, 11:11 AM
I think a telling fact is when our starters do get cut, many of them can't find a job anywhere in the league (O'Hara, Toomer). Jacobs couldn't find the playing field in SF, and we'll see how much Osi plays next year.

I'm pretty sure Osi won't be here next season

Toadofsteel
12-24-2012, 11:11 AM
I'm pretty sure Osi won't be here next season

I think he's saying if Osi finds a new team, he's going to stink up the joint... I hope it's the raiders, that way next year Wilson can run on him all freaking day...

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 11:36 AM
I think he's saying if Osi finds a new team, he's going to stink up the joint... I hope it's the raiders, that way next year Wilson can run on him all freaking day...

He's saying that Osi is a 1mil cap hit next year so the Giants will probably just cut him.

GFiP
12-24-2012, 11:42 AM
Just another in my long list of why Coughlin needs to go. These second half collapses need to stop.

GFiP
12-24-2012, 11:44 AM
Exactly dude, i mean Cweb is playing like a 3rd stringer... who can we replace him for a 3rd stringer. He was not playing like a #1 corner (or #2)Even if our best option was someone crappy and worse than Cweb its expected for said person to be worse but atleast its expected. Cweb was getting abused, he knew it, the coaches knew it, the fans knew it, and the ravens knew it yet nothing was done...A 3rd stringer is rather polite for CWeb right now. He has looked like some undrafted rookie scrub this year, and he's making 8 mil! That's a crater in our cap.

mike kennedy
12-24-2012, 11:46 AM
who are the clearly better alternatives for those players that we let rot on the bench out of loyalty.

again, this idea that every problem we have is a coaching problem just exposes the nasty bias of so many fans.

Who were the obvious alternatives for Tuck, Osi, and Webster?

Diehl was benched, they just saved him the embarrassment and frankly media distraction of saying they were benching him.

Locklear breaks his leg after a couple starts where Diehl was 'injured', and then magically the next week diehl says he's 100% health was and ready to go? Really? he wasn't 100% the week before? Whatevs. He was benched.Disagree with CDN G Man on most of his statement. Not gonna argue on TC wanting perfection and loyalty to proven players but I will agree that TC has the way too stubborn with being old school. Why even draft if they are not gonna use rookies. If they wanted to protect ELI they should of benches Diehl months ago, he is another player who is shot. Bradshaw was not ready yesterday. That was a disaster. game plan sucked and GILBRILLIANT had no game plan or adjustments to use Wilson. The guy is less then one dimensional. 2 SB game plans by him ( no blow outs) and how many failures in between. 14 points scored in the last 2 games! Wow he is the man!
Offensive, defensive and special teams failures this year and another total meltdown to end season.
They are losing to Philly next week.

mike kennedy
12-24-2012, 11:47 AM
Frakken IPhone spellcheck.

joemorrisforprez
12-24-2012, 11:55 AM
This is my main beef with Coughlin. Veterans who have been here for a long while always know that they get to play. TC will always go to the one that's been here longer and let superior talent rot on the bench. Furthermore, he's a lot more forgiving of his veterans making mistakes, while one rookie infraction will land you in the doghouse for several games (at least). I think this is contributing to our second-half collapses a lot more than you may think. Veteran starters know that their jobs are secure, so they have no real desire to play. Rookies and backups know that they are being unfairly judged against in favor of said starters, so they begin tuning out the coaching staff.

Rookies and FA pickups need to have legitimate shots to surpass the established starters during the season. Benching Locklear for Diehl when both were healthy was unacceptable. Giving Wilson 5 snaps maximum in games where he's the offense's best weapon, while subsequently running Bradshaw into the ground is beyond the definition of insanity, especially when Wilson gets pulled after getting trucked on a block, while Bradshaw gets to whiff blocks entirely.
Otherwise, I really like TC, and wish that he could do better, but if firing him is the only way to get rid of this tenure system, we unfortunately have to make the change...

If I'm going to fault Coughlin for anything, it's being too loyal to his players and his staff. There are players that should be benched right now. There are coordinators who are not getting the job done - and again, I don't know how much of that is scheme, how much is not having the right players on the field, and/or how much is not pushing the right buttons to coach/prepare/motivate the players that are out there.

I'm pretty much done with Gilbride…..maybe that's unfair, though. He can't block or catch. And maybe it's Coughlin that is insisting that busted-up Bradshaw was a better option than Wilson. I probably won't know. But Bradshaw almost got Eli killed yesterday in pass protection, and unless I'm mistaken, that's the reason why the Giants have been so reluctant to use Wilson more. Again, I shouldn't even care at this point, because the majority of the team seems to already be checking out.

As far as Fewell goes, I have a little more sympathy, but not much. I don't like his Cover2 schemes…..he relies on turnovers to stop teams. Which means that disciplined teams like the Falcons and Ravens can dink, dunk, and occasionally slash his defense to death. The only thing that kept the Saints from destroying the Giants was their inability to protect the ball, and the offense committing to Wilson. Take out those 2 elements, and the Saints would have pounded the Giants too.

However, I don't see Fewell or Gilbride going anywhere….which means Jerry Reese will need to come up with some miracles next year.

What really bums me out is that the players that wanted it the most were simply betrayed by their bodies. Bradshaw clearly wanted to play, despite being busted up…..Blackburn has heart and pride, but doesn't have that extra gear needed to defend against the elite playmakers in this league. He should be our 4th best linebacker.

I think it's fair to criticize Reese, as well….we've seen several drafts where offensive lineman and linebackers were an afterthought. Yesterday, both units were thoroughly exposed.

The Giants now need a ton of help to make the playoffs, but given what I've seen, they would basically be a homecoming opponent for the true contenders. I'm down to hoping they can beat Philadelphia, salvage a winning season, and then let all the other chips fall where they may.

But even then, Philly is no guarantee….I'm imagining a cold, sloppy, loss to the Eagles as Reid gives the Giant faithful one final "**** you" before he is shown the door.

Thank God for 2011…I'm guessing we'll need that to keep the fans warm for a couple years…..things are going to get worse before they get better.

Toadofsteel
12-24-2012, 01:39 PM
Maybe if we play crappy enough, it will trick Lurie into giving Reid one more year...

TroyArcher
12-24-2012, 02:09 PM
He has used rookies in the past - Steve Smith, AB, Kevin Boss... They just need to prove they can play. This past year not so much the case.

joemorrisforprez
12-24-2012, 02:58 PM
Maybe if we play crappy enough, it will trick Lurie into giving Reid one more year...ry

No thanks....really tired of Reid kicking the Giants *** every season.

jomo
12-24-2012, 03:02 PM
How did the "tenure system" apply to Boley sitting yesterday while Paysinger and Herzlich start?
Except for rookie running backs (who can lose a game quickly with a fumble or blown blocking assignment) I think Coughlin's approach is to start the guys he thinks give us the best chance to win. I think you've got a disagreement with him on personnel decisions but I wouldn't necessarily attach it to longevity.

TC has been around coaching long enough to know that coaches who make player decisions based on tenure alone are soon know as "former coaches."

Toadofsteel
12-24-2012, 05:47 PM
How did the "tenure system" apply to Boley sitting yesterday while Paysinger and Herzlich start?
Except for rookie running backs (who can lose a game quickly with a fumble or blown blocking assignment) I think Coughlin's approach is to start the guys he thinks give us the best chance to win. I think you've got a disagreement with him on personnel decisions but I wouldn't necessarily attach it to longevity.

TC has been around coaching long enough to know that coaches who make player decisions based on tenure alone are soon know as "former coaches."

Boley sitting I think had something to do with PF's weird 4-4 personnel set. Though why Paysinger got the nod over him, i have no idea. He might be more injured than people are letting on...

TheShouldersOf
12-24-2012, 06:51 PM
How did the "tenure system" apply to Boley sitting yesterday while Paysinger and Herzlich start?
Except for rookie running backs (who can lose a game quickly with a fumble or blown blocking assignment) I think Coughlin's approach is to start the guys he thinks give us the best chance to win. I think you've got a disagreement with him on personnel decisions but I wouldn't necessarily attach it to longevity.

TC has been around coaching long enough to know that coaches who make player decisions based on tenure alone are soon know as "former coaches."

What about Veteran Running Backs that Fumble and Blown Blocking Assignments

Bradshaw

NYGBandit
12-24-2012, 07:10 PM
You guys want an example of a young stud not getting a shot....

Cruz...

It took an act of God for this guy to get playing time... seriously....

With Nicks and Manningham exchanging weeks they were hurt and hixon suffering a torn acl...
we signed Brandon Stokely off the street... instead of inserting Cruz...

then when Stokely pulled his hammy... Cruz finally got a real shot.. that is the only way young guys get in...

we are a prime example of close minded thinking... all out blitz? Wilson needs help blocking? Screen pass? He picks up chunks of yards on screens and they will stop trying to expose that... but we run the SAME PLAYS OVER AND OVER that ANYONE can predict and if you don't execute it flawlessly then there is no hope. It takes Eli miracles for us to move the ball in this **** offensive system.

We did the same thing to Wilson... oh no... all of our guys are hurt... lets sign 2 guys off the street who don't know our offense and give them expanded roles...

IE: the falcons game... why did we put lumpkin in and still get shutout? That guy won't be here next year... let Wilson get some time and take some licks and learn... you weren't perfect Wilson? BENCH

Bradshaw has fumbled, missed blocks, not been durable and has lost a step... to keep him fresh... insert the youth... let him learn... this is why we lose...

GMAN2K9
12-24-2012, 08:25 PM
You guys want an example of a young stud not getting a shot....

Cruz...

It took an act of God for this guy to get playing time... seriously....

With Nicks and Manningham exchanging weeks they were hurt and hixon suffering a torn acl...
we signed Brandon Stokely off the street... instead of inserting Cruz...

then when Stokely pulled his hammy... Cruz finally got a real shot.. that is the only way young guys get in...

we are a prime example of close minded thinking... all out blitz? Wilson needs help blocking? Screen pass? He picks up chunks of yards on screens and they will stop trying to expose that... but we run the SAME PLAYS OVER AND OVER that ANYONE can predict and if you don't execute it flawlessly then there is no hope. It takes Eli miracles for us to move the ball in this **** offensive system.

We did the same thing to Wilson... oh no... all of our guys are hurt... lets sign 2 guys off the street who don't know our offense and give them expanded roles...

IE: the falcons game... why did we put lumpkin in and still get shutout? That guy won't be here next year... let Wilson get some time and take some licks and learn... you weren't perfect Wilson? BENCH

Bradshaw has fumbled, missed blocks, not been durable and has lost a step... to keep him fresh... insert the youth... let him learn... this is why we lose...

100% agree with your points NYGBandit. Its disgusts me beyond belief to see the staff, the media, and certain posters attack Wilson for not doing everything he is asked to do! The kid is a game breaker and works his bum off to make improvements! He had ONE DAMN fumble on his 2nd NFL carry and what I see now on his handoffs and returns is a guy who is running fast, strong AND protecting the ball from being punched out from any angle. Yet some continue to doubt the kid when he's been our ONLY bright spot in these 2 HORRIBLE losses. The decision to limit his touches on offense is absolutely atrocious!

The failure of the coaching staff to turn to Wilson and Randle instead of VERY banged up Bradshaw & Nicks was one of the biggest reasons this offense fizzled down the stretch. I love both Bradshaw and Nicks but they were doing more harm than good the last week few games, ESPECIALLY yesterday.

I saw...

Bradshaw missing blocks due to laziness, poor execution mentally & physically. Say what you want about Wilson getting knocked on his *** last week in Atlanta, at least he manned up and halted the blitzer.

Bradshaw failing to burst thru the hole all season b/c he dances / hesitates AND physically does not have the jets to burst. Giants FINALLY put in Wilson and he takes a crack of daylight TO THE HOUSE yesterday as he has done before.

Reuben Randle... sure he has made some mistakes with routes earlier this season but he is no worse that the rest of wide outs having miscommunications with Eli. What I do see is a guy running & cutting hard AND going up to catch a ball at its highest point. Too many times I have seen Cruz looking over his shoulder and Nicks rounding off cuts.

The decision by the staff to use these two promising rookies is truly one of the reason our offense has fallen apart in addition to our O line allowing unraveling from one of the best at pass protecting early in the year to Eli taking a beating down the stretch.

TheShouldersOf
12-25-2012, 02:37 AM
Here Here^

FlyingTruck
12-25-2012, 03:59 AM
"Eli is worth alot more to this offense than wilson ever will"Oh really? How will we ever know how much Wilson is worth if he never gets a chance?

RagTime Blue
12-25-2012, 12:14 PM
He's saying that Osi is a 1mil cap hit next year so the Giants will probably just cut him.

My point was really that the Coughlin regime sticks with starters even when they have no business being in the NFL.

Cloud57
12-25-2012, 01:09 PM
My point was really that the Coughlin regime sticks with starters even when they have no business being in the NFL.I think money and contracts is part of the reason why they stick with starters who can no loner play.

stormblue
12-25-2012, 01:16 PM
I think money and contracts is part of the reason why they stick with starters who can no loner play.

i find it hard to believe that the coaching staff would not have a very strong impact
on who they would prefer to keep or cut or draft.
unless Mara , Tisch and Reese are just going by Madden or ESPN.

speedman
12-25-2012, 02:46 PM
[QUOTE=CDN_G-FAN;636004]who are the clearly better alternatives for those players that we let rot on the bench out of loyalty.

again, this idea that every problem we have is a coaching problem just exposes the nasty bias of so many fans.

Who were the obvious alternatives for Tuck, Osi, and Webster?Get your head out of your butt. Diehl replaced Locklear before Locklear got hurt.

Diehl was benched, they just saved him the embarrassment and frankly media distraction of saying they were benching him.

Locklear breaks his leg after a couple starts where Diehl was 'injured', and then magically the next week diehl says he's 100% health was and ready to go? Really? he wasn't 100% the week before? Whatevs. He was benched.[/QUOTEGet your head out of your butt. Diehl replaced Locklear before Locklear got hurt.

appodictic
12-25-2012, 09:29 PM
Just throwing this out there the 49 'ers play the fewest rookies....

shotcalla39
12-25-2012, 11:28 PM
And that's probably a main reason why we won our bowls at the same time.. the vets know tc has their back

OX1
12-26-2012, 03:51 AM
Screen pass? He picks up chunks of yards on screens and they will stop trying to expose that...

This is how you protect the franchise QB. Not taking hits if he gets rid of the ball
almost instantly. We all see it almost every week against us, helping negate our supposed awsome pash rush.
Killdrive should have been all over the short game very early in the season, knowing what he had in this O-line.

stormblue
12-26-2012, 08:00 AM
This is how you protect the franchise QB. Not taking hits if he gets rid of the ball
almost instantly. We all see it almost every week against us, helping negate our supposed awsome pash rush.
Killdrive should have been all over the short game very early in the season, knowing what he had in this O-line.

we have a couple of those 6 or 7 yard passes.....
but we only use them on 3rd and 20.

BlueSanta
12-26-2012, 08:32 AM
I have made the point multiple times that the "tenure" system was what got TC fired in Jacksonville too. His refusal to replace his aging and ineffective Vets ultimately cost him his job.

Mind you, I am not advocating his being fired, just pointing out a fact. This is his 1 area of weakness.

Tmurda1984
12-26-2012, 10:10 AM
This thread is so bogus. Coughlin is going to start guys that he trusts. Markus Kuhn was a 7th round rookie getting more playing time than Austin and Bernard..so this counters the argument that Coughlin does not play his rookies. Why does Coughlin take heat for not starting Locklear....Locklear was not that good, he did not get any push in the running game, and he was an average pass blocker. David Diehl was not as bad as Boothe and Baas has been this season. Even Snee looks bad, but Diehl still gets blamed.

Im sorry if guys are disappointed that Coughlin has more confidence in Bradshaw than a rookie. I would have to agree with Coughlin on this one as well, and Andre Brown was a better performing than Wilson. When Wilson was in the doghouse for fumbling, he had his shot but Andre Brown was stepped up. Andre Brown was also a better 3rd down back than Wilson. Wilson does not see much time because he can not play on 3rd downs....and hes shown you this throughout the course of the season.

People need to wake up if they think we have enormous talent on that bench. Everyone throws out that silly word called potential. Theres people out here that think Barden, Clintim, Beckum, etc has the potential. I rather see Performance and results.

fansince69
12-26-2012, 11:16 AM
You're telling me that between healthy Diehl and healthy Locklear, you'd take Diehl? Obviously Locklear going down forced the hand, but there were 3 games (including Pitt and Cincy) where a healthy Locklear was riding the pine.

The fact that we didn't even so much as give any rotational snaps to Ojomo or Tracy (and didn't even activate Ojomo for most of the season) means either both are really THAT bad (in which case why did we go 5 DE on our final 53-man instead of picking up another linebacker), or they were just never given a chance to show that they were better...

As for Webby, the fact that Flacco was targeting him over Hosley speaks volumes. If Hosley had been given more experience early on... yeah it would have been a rocky start, but other teams throw their rookies into the fire early on and by the end of the season the good ones have fully adjusted. If we had Prince and Hosley, our secondary would improve dramatically. Alas, Prince was injured, again. Only way Hosley got a start at all was due to injury. Again, no chances even late in the game rotationally, even when we clearly saw that Webster is not what he used to be..

I'm not asking to immediately bench a player merely for having a bad day. I'm asking that we rotate in some of these rookies and FA, get their feet wet at the very least, and if they show they can handle the position, they can win a start. That should motivate the established veterans to continue producing (do your job or get "fired", or more accurately, benched), as well as motivating the younger players more by rewarding good play.Does anyone remember that he did the same thing a couple years ago with O'Hara?....the line clearly had improved....he came back and the line took a significant downswing but yet he stuck with O'Hara.....

barran21
12-26-2012, 11:20 AM
The old school ways is why we have so many injuries, TC pushes the vets until they break, we need more youths playing on our team if they get experience probably won't have so many damn injuries...

Tmurda1984
12-26-2012, 11:22 AM
Because Seubert was not a Center. Seubert would rather play guard than Center. Is that fair to Seubert? Seubert was also cut along with O'hara so I do not think it was as great of an improvement as you think...you are over exaggerating a little bit. Our offensive line finally became mortal, and Reese had no plan B for the line and still continues to struggle replacing those guys.

Imgrate
12-26-2012, 11:24 AM
Because Seubert was not a Center. Seubert would rather play guard than Center. Is that fair to Seubert? Seubert was also cut along with O'hara so I do not think it was as great of an improvement as you think...you are over exaggerating a little bit. Our offensive line finally became mortal, and Reese had no plan B for the line and still continues to struggle replacing those guys.Seubert had a career ending injury. Ohara just flat out sucked, koets vastly outplayed him that year

tonyt830
12-26-2012, 12:17 PM
This is my main beef with Coughlin. Veterans who have been here for a long while always know that they get to play. TC will always go to the one that's been here longer and let superior talent rot on the bench. Furthermore, he's a lot more forgiving of his veterans making mistakes, while one rookie infraction will land you in the doghouse for several games (at least). I think this is contributing to our second-half collapses a lot more than you may think. Veteran starters know that their jobs are secure, so they have no real desire to play. Rookies and backups know that they are being unfairly judged against in favor of said starters, so they begin tuning out the coaching staff.

Rookies and FA pickups need to have legitimate shots to surpass the established starters during the season. Benching Locklear for Diehl when both were healthy was unacceptable. Giving Wilson 5 snaps maximum in games where he's the offense's best weapon, while subsequently running Bradshaw into the ground is beyond the definition of insanity, especially when Wilson gets pulled after getting trucked on a block, while Bradshaw gets to whiff blocks entirely.
Otherwise, I really like TC, and wish that he could do better, but if firing him is the only way to get rid of this tenure system, we unfortunately have to make the change...Good Post, and yes I agree as well. But loyalty runs extremely deep in this organization, from Mara all the way down to our coaches and players. So I believe you are correct, unless Coughlin retires. is forced to retire or is fired, we will continue to see the same schemes, the same loyalty to the tenured players.

Tmurda1984
12-26-2012, 02:30 PM
Seubert had a career ending injury. Ohara just flat out sucked, koets vastly outplayed him that year

Adam Koets was terrible and went on IR after playing a few games. He was soo terrible the Giants did not even think of bringing him back.

Imgrate
12-26-2012, 02:59 PM
Adam Koets was terrible and went on IR after playing a few games. He was soo terrible the Giants did not even think of bringing him back.Kinda like ohara

appodictic
12-26-2012, 11:50 PM
100% agree with your points NYGBandit. Its disgusts me beyond belief to see the staff, the media, and certain posters attack Wilson for not doing everything he is asked to do! The kid is a game breaker and works his bum off to make improvements! He had ONE DAMN fumble on his 2nd NFL carry and what I see now on his handoffs and returns is a guy who is running fast, strong AND protecting the ball from being punched out from any angle. Yet some continue to doubt the kid when he's been our ONLY bright spot in these 2 HORRIBLE losses. The decision to limit his touches on offense is absolutely atrocious!

The failure of the coaching staff to turn to Wilson and Randle instead of VERY banged up Bradshaw & Nicks was one of the biggest reasons this offense fizzled down the stretch. I love both Bradshaw and Nicks but they were doing more harm than good the last week few games, ESPECIALLY yesterday.

I saw...

Bradshaw missing blocks due to laziness, poor execution mentally & physically. Say what you want about Wilson getting knocked on his *** last week in Atlanta, at least he manned up and halted the blitzer.

Bradshaw failing to burst thru the hole all season b/c he dances / hesitates AND physically does not have the jets to burst. Giants FINALLY put in Wilson and he takes a crack of daylight TO THE HOUSE yesterday as he has done before.

Reuben Randle... sure he has made some mistakes with routes earlier this season but he is no worse that the rest of wide outs having miscommunications with Eli. What I do see is a guy running & cutting hard AND going up to catch a ball at its highest point. Too many times I have seen Cruz looking over his shoulder and Nicks rounding off cuts.

The decision by the staff to use these two promising rookies is truly one of the reason our offense has fallen apart in addition to our O line allowing unraveling from one of the best at pass protecting early in the year to Eli taking a beating down the stretch.

Im tired of all these breakdowns of who is good and who is not. Everyone plays so crappy its hard to say who the actual problem is.

TheShouldersOf
12-27-2012, 03:42 AM
Whats the difference between First and Third down? that is one thing i dislike about the entire NFL 'Three downs to make a first, one down to punt'

if on third and short you run a draw play or between the guard/tackle run, and the defense knows, it wouldn't matter who you were it has a higher percentage of being stopped

if they ran and executed the 14 yard Wilson touchdown in the Raven game, on any down it would have converted,

are you talking about pass protection?

Wilson has far more talent and potential than Brown has,