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View Full Version : Prince Amukamara's 2012 Season



titwio
12-24-2012, 11:55 AM
There have been some posts regarding his play this year so I got his advanced CB stats from PFF and decided to share them.

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x322/titwio/Amukamara_PFF-1.jpg

He has been pretty lights out... 1 TD all season and his highest yards given up were 73 which was mostly the result of a 62 yard play.

Anyway...thoughts?

Toadofsteel
12-24-2012, 11:57 AM
Prince is solid. And, honestly, Hosley is starting to pan out as well. The fact that Webby was targeted over Hosley speaks volumes. I think we're set at starting CB for a while, though I wouldn't mind some extra depth in the draft... Webster has to go though.

RagTime Blue
12-24-2012, 11:57 AM
We're going to need him in the upcoming seasons to be at least that good.

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 11:59 AM
He hasn't played enough to call him solid.

He's also had Safety help over the top when he's been in.

And PFF is a suck site.

bla2788
12-24-2012, 12:00 PM
Prince is talented, but i'm pretty sure he's spent just as much time injured as playing thus far.

Ruttiger711
12-24-2012, 12:01 PM
Problem is when we took him we thought we had one solid corner and he would be the other. Now we're right back there again.

Toadofsteel
12-24-2012, 12:01 PM
He hasn't played enough to call him solid.

He's also had Safety help over the top when he's been in.

And PFF is a suck site.

I was willing to entertain your thoughts until I reached the third line...

titwio
12-24-2012, 12:02 PM
The Bengals game was his worst game of the year which he allowed his only TD the most receptions he's given up all year with 6. Other than game he's never given up more than 4 rec's or another TD.

Statistically I think it's phenomenal.

titwio
12-24-2012, 12:03 PM
He hasn't played enough to call him solid.

He's also had Safety help over the top when he's been in.

And PFF is a suck site.

Show me where you can get more in-depth stats and maybe I'll agree with you.

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 12:05 PM
The Bengals game was his worst game of the year which he allowed his only TD the most receptions he's given up all year with 6. Other than game he's never given up more than 4 rec's or another TD.

Statistically I think it's phenomenal.

Can't say that in a vacuum. How many passes defensed? Percentage of targets to passes defensed to receptions made. Did he have Safety help over the top, did he play man, zone, man-press, yada yada yada.

One of the reasons CWeb was picked on so much this year was that he was locked up in single coverage most of the time (which most offenses will throw to regardless of who you are).

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 12:06 PM
Show me where you can get more in-depth stats and maybe I'll agree with you.

The "suck" part of the site is that half of their "stats" are judgment calls ... judgments which are neither consistent nor particularly accurate. Missed blocking assignments, QB pressures, missed tackles, etc ....

Pro Football Reference is a better site as long as you're willing to put in the homework to figure out what the stats mean.

titwio
12-24-2012, 12:08 PM
Can't say that in a vacuum. How many passes defensed? Percentage of targets to passes defensed to receptions made. Did he have Safety help over the top, did he play man, zone, man-press, yada yada yada.

One of the reasons CWeb was picked on so much this year was that he was locked up in single coverage most of the time (which most offenses will throw to regardless of who you are).

All the targets and percentages are there. Fairly easy to read. Safety help? Please find me a site that stats that.

titwio
12-24-2012, 12:09 PM
The "suck" part of the site is that half of their "stats" are judgment calls ... judgments which are neither consistent nor particularly accurate. Missed blocking assignments, QB pressures, missed tackles, etc ....

I know what your saying but this is not one of their "articles on judgements". This is clear statistics and percentages.

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 12:11 PM
All the targets and percentages are there. Fairly easy to read. Safety help? Please find me a site that stats that.

This is why we watch the games.

Prince has been average at best this year when left alone.

With a Safety over the top and rolled coverage, I'd be an above average CB. Or did you think he was getting so few targets because teams were deathly afraid of the mighty Princess? :rolleyes:

Redeyejedi
12-24-2012, 12:14 PM
He hasn't played enough to call him solid.

He's also had Safety help over the top when he's been in.

And PFF is a suck site. your right we should use your extensive knowledge of the game instead to quantify players. How about u put in the work and track every snap. You wont though you will continue to just rail on everyone and everything without any substance behind it.

titwio
12-24-2012, 12:16 PM
This is why we watch the games.

Prince has been average at best this year when left alone.

With a Safety over the top and rolled coverage, I'd be an above average CB. Or did you think he was getting so few targets because teams were deathly afraid of the mighty Princess? :rolleyes:

Ah...maybe I should watch the games more...I mean I just have about half them on DVR...:rolleyes: You make it seem like they're babying and coddling Prince which is not true. Safety help has been shyte all year and on numerous occasions Prince has been victim to poor safety play over the top...it's just a more awful result when it happens to Corey instead of the guy you prefer to call "Princess".

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 12:17 PM
your right we should use your extensive knowledge of the game instead to quantify players. How about u put in the work and track every snap

Straw man is still straw.

GMENAGAIN
12-24-2012, 12:20 PM
There are plenty of problems with this team's roster . . . Prince is not one of them.

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 12:21 PM
Ah...maybe I should watch the games more...I mean I just have about half them on DVR...:rolleyes: You make it seem like they're babying and coddling Prince which is not true. Safety help has been shyte all year and on numerous occasions Prince has been victim to poor safety play over the top...it's just a more awful result when it happen to Corey instead of the guy you prefer to call "Princess".

If you have them DVR'd then go back and watch them and make your own call instead of relying on a website to give you your opinion.

You can agree or disagree with me about Prince which is fine ... but don't throw up PFF as the holiest of holys as the basis of your point.

Anyone who has watched Prince this year would come away with "average at best". Unlike the commentators who were extolling how elite he was during the Cinci game because they were throwing on CWeb early (and abused the crap out of Prince later in the same game).

titwio
12-24-2012, 12:27 PM
If you have them DVR'd then go back and watch them and make your own call instead of relying on a website to give you your opinion.

Who said this is how I formed my opinion? I'm sharing a breakdown of his season statistically...wouldyou prefer I post all the games on my DVR into a thread and ask for peoples analysis...right...no.



You can agree or disagree with me about Prince which is fine ... but don't throw up PFF as the holiest of holys as the basis of your point.

What point do you think I'm trying to make. Why do I feel like we're arguing two different things here. When did I use PFF as some holy than thou type of thing. This is a Giants forum and I'm asking for thoughts on his season. I never made a point actually.

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 12:31 PM
Who said this is how I performed my opinion? I'm sharing a breakdown of his season statistically...wouldyou prefer I post all the games on my DVR into a thread and ask for peoples analysis...right...no.



What point do you think I'm trying to make. Why do I feel like we're arguing two different things here. When did I use PFF as some holy than thou type of thing. This is a Giants forum and I'm asking for thoughts on his season. I never made a point actually.

Throwing up a website infers a certain measure of faith in that website's content. I have had bad experiences with said website so I thought I would put that forth to you as well as giving my opinion of Prince's performance this year, which you did ask for.

I wasn't attacking you (sorry if it felt like I was).

titwio
12-24-2012, 12:35 PM
Throwing up a website infers a certain measure of faith in that website's content. I have had bad experiences with said website so I thought I would put that forth to you as well as giving my opinion of Prince's performance this year, which you did ask for.

I wasn't attacking you (sorry if it felt like I was).

No worries. I know a few people who share the same opinion as you about PFF and have noticed that some of their articles do seem a bit stretched. This is pretty straight forward stats so I didn't see it as one of those situations.

Anyway I was actually running a search for CB stats and they're the only site I know that goes in-depth. Actually I don't have an account with them but I had a buddy PM me those stats I posted.

kaufman512
12-24-2012, 12:41 PM
i think prince has been pretty solid. He's been beat on some big plays but all in all I'm happy with the prospects of him and hosley. Webster has been looking slow and I agree he's probably past his prime. It's interesting that no one here has mentioned terrell thomas - I'm clearly aware of how injury prone he is but this guy was a pro bowl caliber corner for us in 2010 and he's under contract until 2015 - I hope he can get healthy and be a shut down corner for us again.

ozzie0075
12-24-2012, 12:43 PM
If you have them DVR'd then go back and watch them and make your own call instead of relying on a website to give you your opinion.

You can agree or disagree with me about Prince which is fine ... but don't throw up PFF as the holiest of holys as the basis of your point.

Anyone who has watched Prince this year would come away with "average at best". Unlike the commentators who were extolling how elite he was during the Cinci game because they were throwing on CWeb early (and abused the crap out of Prince later in the same game).

You really need the all 22 tape to determine whether or not Prince had help over the top on most plays. The tv won't show most of that.

wuzpapn
12-24-2012, 12:44 PM
T2 was greatly missed this season. Who knows what's up with that boy's knee though.

nhpgiantsfan
12-24-2012, 12:48 PM
T2 is done. He was never a good cover corner.

Prince was decent, but also got abused against the Cowboys (game 2)

Webster made Aaron Ross look like an all-pro this year.

stormblue
12-24-2012, 12:49 PM
He hasn't played enough to call him solid.

He's also had Safety help over the top when he's been in.

And PFF is a suck site.

they suck my 27 dollars a year.
and there is nothing wrong with their stats.

now ; how we actually interpret them is obviously opinionated and open to scrutiny.

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 12:49 PM
You really need the all 22 tape to determine whether or not Prince had help over the top on most plays. The tv won't show most of that.

You can see the coverage types and which way they roll on almost every snap.

22 Tape is good for watching just how good Prince is at coverage on a given play. From what I've seen he's been decent but not to the point where I'd anoint him as anything special. Opposing QBs tend to shy away from throwing into double coverage is all (which is what his side ends up being with a Safety there).

titwio
12-24-2012, 12:52 PM
T2 is done. He was never a good cover corner.

Prince was decent, but also got abused against the Cowboys (game 2)

Webster made Aaron Ross look like an all-pro this year.

10 targets for 4 receptions, 45 yards and no TD's...That game? I think your confusing him with Webster and Hosley in that game.

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 01:02 PM
No worries. I know a few people who share the same opinion as you about PFF and have noticed that some of their articles do seem a bit stretched. This is pretty straight forward stats so I didn't see it as one of those situations.

Anyway I was actually running a search for CB stats and they're the only site I know that goes in-depth. Actually I don't have an account with them but I had a buddy PM me those stats I posted.

My beef with PFF was how they defined pressures, hurries, missed tackles, missed blocks, etc ...

For example, a hand slap from a player on the ground who obviously wasn't in a position to make the tackle was still considered a missed tackle. That skews what the stats mean. Blocking assignments were independent of what the actual play or blocking assignment was. Pressures and hurries are very inconsistent from game to game with PFF (I don't mind that they differ from what I would call a pressure / hurry ... just be consistent about it so I can judge accordingly). The fact that they are charging for that garbage is the basis of my zealous hatred :D

I haven't followed their secondary stats enough to judge. However I do know that Prince got thrown at a LOT less than CWeb because of this one basic fact ... today's QBs are taught to throw at single coverage. Prince is almost never in single coverage, while CWeb is almost always in single coverage. So measuring them by # of targets and passes defensed is a bit misleading from my perspective. That's all.

Kruunch
12-24-2012, 01:04 PM
T2 is done. He was never a good cover corner.

Prince was decent, but also got abused against the Cowboys (game 2)

Webster made Aaron Ross look like an all-pro this year.

T2 was an excellent zone corner but yeah I think he's done. Not too many people come back from 3 ACLs.

nhpgiantsfan
12-24-2012, 01:08 PM
T2 was an excellent zone corner but yeah I think he's done. Not too many people come back from 3 ACLs.

He was so excellent that he led the team in tackles, because everybody he was covering caught the ball.

stormblue
12-24-2012, 01:13 PM
stats or no stats ....safety help or no safety help...C Webb is a corner who could never tackle....
gets pushed around on press coverage (although homers falsely claim that he excels at it )
and has only one year where he wasn't the "toast of the town"...always has a lousy targets/completion ratio.

most overrated Giant since Aaron Pierce.

sharick88
12-24-2012, 01:16 PM
He had a pretty nice year. If you want to throw any criticism his way, you can throw it at his int amount.

titwio
12-24-2012, 01:19 PM
I haven't followed their secondary stats enough to judge. However I do know that Prince got thrown at a LOT less than CWeb because of this one basic fact ... today's QBs are taught to throw at single coverage. Prince is almost never in single coverage, while CWeb is almost always in single coverage. So measuring them by # of targets and passes defensed is a bit misleading from my perspective. That's all.

Now you have me on youtube looking for highlights from his games that I can post real quick...(not much out there though) He doesn't get as much help as you think he does. Terrell was targeted a lot too as the #2 and they played a lot of 3 safety sets. Prince was getting targeted a lot last year too when he got in the game. This year has been different and I've noticed the Giants never changed their schemes too much when they had to go to Hosley, Coe or Tryon yet those guys still got more targets than Prince when they replaced him.

I know where your coming from but I don't think your giving him enough credit.

EliDaMANning
12-24-2012, 01:22 PM
Would love to see if the Giants can work a deal with the Jets and try to get Revis.