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bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 12:16 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</p>


dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>

Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 12:19 PM
This whole Penn St thing is absolutely disgusting and unfathomable to me. Who can you even trust with your kids in this world anymore? How can someone do that to children and get any possible enjoyment out of it. My daughter is 5 and I cringe to think of the predators out there and the things she will have to deal with in her future. I can only hope things go back to the way they were when we were growing up. The world seemed much more innocent then....
</p>


yea, it's extremely disturbing....youre right. Unfathomable is a good description.

I watched Sportscenter on my lunch break yesterday, and Matt Millen(PSU Alum)nearly broke down in tears while trying to discuss the topic. Truly terrible.</p>




it is gross

The thing that isn't really sitting well with me is that Joe PAterno is being roasted. NOt that it isn't deserved but essentially he did the same thing, that the guy who saw this did.

The guy who saw it, reported it to his superior - no police

Joe-Pa reported it to his superior - no police.

not saying that was the right thing, but lets make sure we're putting the guy who saw it happen in the same catagory as Joe Pa - wherever you put him.

And honestly Joe Pa didn't see anything, so he almost had to be diplomatic and follow the chain of command, but the dude who saw it should of been at the police station that night
</p>


you cant be serious man...
if someone told you something of that magnitude, something that absoultely terrible....youre saying you would tell your boss? **** no....you report it to who does the real investigating: the police.

If someone ever told me that, immediately reported, i dont care if it's heresay....you cant ignore jsut because you dont think it's true, or w/e the case is.....it's immoral.</p>

your reading comprehension isn't on today, your 0/2 lol

I personally hold Joe Pa responsibile as well. BUT my thing is that the guy who saw it and reported it to Joe Pa is actually worse than Joe Pa.

It is no worse, only difference is Joe Pa didn't see it. They both knew something happened and they both passed the buck without ever following up. The guy that saw it should have called the cops immediately, when Joe Pa found out he should have called the cops immediately and when the AD found out he should have done the same thing. Everyone is just as much at fault in my opinion and that is why the house needs to be cleaned. Everyone involved still works there. It happened in the showers in the locker room. They pass by that room every day of their life. How did the guy who originally saw it block that out. Every time he walked by the showers he would have to see it in his mind. I guess having a successful college program and money is more important than morals. I hope this guy gets the death penalty. It's always these big powerful guys who think they are above it all and abuse the power.


its ten times worse

One guy KNOWS it happened

another guy HEARD it happened.

You are starting to upset me. lol

He has to report it. So you heard a guy got shot and he is laying in the alley or you saw him get shot. So if you don't see it you are not going to report it?

So your nephew comes up to you and says my uncle touched me Matt and I didn't like it.

or

your nephew comes up to you and says my brother told me that dad touched him and he didn't like it.

How is that any ****ing different bro? You are not going to say anything since it's only hearsay?

You are walking a fine line here. It is your responsibility as a coach, mentor and above all a human being to say something regardless of the consequences. Furthermore, if you do say something which Joe Pa did and nothing happens then you can't sweep it under the rug. That is why his name will be tarnished forever and like I said earlier, it's only going to get worse once more stories start coming out.


and bro the difference is, my NEPHEW came and told me. Your really making all the variables of this case completely different than the situation Joe Pa was initially put in.

If a little kid comes and tell me that whether hes my nephew or not, i probably snap.

How bout this:

your one neighbor comes to your house and says he saw your best friend for 30 years rape a kid in the shower, you automatically call the cops right away? I mean you just believe it right away? Im sorry, but I don't think your being realistic. I think ur hindsight is 20/20


What if Joe Pa did go right to the cops and it turned out Sandusky was innocent? I mean honestly man Joe Pa was initially put in a ****ed up position. It wasn't his place to call the cops, he didn't see it

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 12:21 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</p>


dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>

Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.


like i said, i think Joe Pa did the right thing at first.

But to let it just get swept under the run and not persue it is where he went horribly wrong. No way he should of kept both of them there

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 12:24 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</p>


dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>

Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.


im sorry, but I think your wrong if u think Joe Pa should of went to the police right away.

Because it was hearsay. What if the allegations weren't true, for arguments sake. Joe Pa only has somebody else's word vs somebody else's word. What if this kid was never touched and now has to go through courts, see physcotherapists, and go through a bunch of **** because some ******* is trying to screw over somebody else.

I agree that eventually Joe Pa should have gone to the police. The only way he shouldn't of is if they found out the guy that told him was full of **** and he should of been fired.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 12:26 PM
bottom line - had the AD done the right thing NOBODY would have this opinion that Joe Pa dropped the ball

Morehead State
11-09-2011, 12:30 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</P>


dude you STILL have to report it!</P>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</P>




Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.


im sorry, but I think your wrong if u think Joe Pa should of went to the police right away.

Because it was hearsay. What if the allegations weren't true, for arguments sake. Joe Pa only has somebody else's word vs somebody else's word. What if this kid was never touched and now has to go through courts, see physcotherapists, and go through a bunch of **** because some ******* is trying to screw over somebody else.

I agree that eventually Joe Pa should have gone to the police. The only way he shouldn't of is if they found out the guy that told him was full of **** and he should of been fired.
</P>


OK, but he needed to make sure that someone went to the police.</P>


Remember something about Joe Paterno. Even though there is an AD and president of the college, there is NO ONE higher than Joe Paterno at Penn State.</P>


He had a moral responsibility to follow through and he failed. Maybe he didn't want to believe it. Maybe he hoped it would just stop or go away. Whatever his state of mind, this is a serious crime and he had an obligation to make sure it was dealt with.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 12:35 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</p>


dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>




Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.


im sorry, but I think your wrong if u think Joe Pa should of went to the police right away.

Because it was hearsay. What if the allegations weren't true, for arguments sake. Joe Pa only has somebody else's word vs somebody else's word. What if this kid was never touched and now has to go through courts, see physcotherapists, and go through a bunch of **** because some ******* is trying to screw over somebody else.

I agree that eventually Joe Pa should have gone to the police. The only way he shouldn't of is if they found out the guy that told him was full of **** and he should of been fired.
</p>


OK, but he needed to make sure that someone went to the police.</p>


Remember something about Joe Paterno. Even though there is an AD and president of the college, there is NO ONE higher than Joe Paterno at Penn State.</p>


He had a moral responsibility to follow through and he failed. Maybe he didn't want to believe it. Maybe he hoped it would just stop or go away. Whatever his state of mind, this is a serious crime and he had an obligation to make sure it was dealt with.</p>

no i agree. Thats what im saying. I think at first he did the right thing and officially did it by the book of how something like that should be handled in a business setting.

And then when nothing got done to keep them both around makes him look just as guilty. But people saying he should of called the cops right away, im sorry I don't think it was his place.

But either way, nobody is worse than the guy who saw it. He should of NEVER went to Joe Pa on that, who had more of a moral responsibility than him? The fact that he saw it and didn't REALLY do what was right I take issue with more than Joe Pa. And I take ALOT more issue. When he saw that, it shouldn't of been an official report filled out to ur supervisor type of situation, when you SEE something like that you get your *** to the police station

Morehead State
11-09-2011, 12:39 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</P>


dude you STILL have to report it!</P>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</P>




Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.


im sorry, but I think your wrong if u think Joe Pa should of went to the police right away.

Because it was hearsay. What if the allegations weren't true, for arguments sake. Joe Pa only has somebody else's word vs somebody else's word. What if this kid was never touched and now has to go through courts, see physcotherapists, and go through a bunch of **** because some ******* is trying to screw over somebody else.

I agree that eventually Joe Pa should have gone to the police. The only way he shouldn't of is if they found out the guy that told him was full of **** and he should of been fired.
</P>


OK, but he needed to make sure that someone went to the police.</P>


Remember something about Joe Paterno. Even though there is an AD and president of the college, there is NO ONE higher than Joe Paterno at Penn State.</P>


He had a moral responsibility to follow through and he failed. Maybe he didn't want to believe it. Maybe he hoped it would just stop or go away. Whatever his state of mind, this is a serious crime and he had an obligation to make sure it was dealt with.</P>




no i agree. Thats what im saying. I think at first he did the right thing and officially did it by the book of how something like that should be handled in a business setting.

And then when nothing got done to keep them both around makes him look just as guilty. But people saying he should of called the cops right away, im sorry I don't think it was his place.

But either way, nobody is worse than the guy who saw it. He should of NEVER went to Joe Pa on that, who had more of a moral responsibility than him? The fact that he saw it and didn't REALLY do what was right I take issue with more than Joe Pa. And I take ALOT more issue. When he saw that, it shouldn't of been an official report filled out to ur supervisor type of situation, when you SEE something like that you get your *** to the police station
</P>


He went to Joe Paterno. Other than the police, there is no higher authority at Penn State. Probably thinking he was risking his job in doing so. I don't see his culpability at all.</P>


Yes Joe Pa went to the AD. Thats the only reason he wasn't carted off in handcuffs with the other guys. He fofilled his legal responsibilities. But not his responsibilities to the college and to whats right.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 12:42 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</p>


dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>




Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.


im sorry, but I think your wrong if u think Joe Pa should of went to the police right away.

Because it was hearsay. What if the allegations weren't true, for arguments sake. Joe Pa only has somebody else's word vs somebody else's word. What if this kid was never touched and now has to go through courts, see physcotherapists, and go through a bunch of **** because some ******* is trying to screw over somebody else.

I agree that eventually Joe Pa should have gone to the police. The only way he shouldn't of is if they found out the guy that told him was full of **** and he should of been fired.
</p>


OK, but he needed to make sure that someone went to the police.</p>


Remember something about Joe Paterno. Even though there is an AD and president of the college, there is NO ONE higher than Joe Paterno at Penn State.</p>


He had a moral responsibility to follow through and he failed. Maybe he didn't want to believe it. Maybe he hoped it would just stop or go away. Whatever his state of mind, this is a serious crime and he had an obligation to make sure it was dealt with.</p>




no i agree. Thats what im saying. I think at first he did the right thing and officially did it by the book of how something like that should be handled in a business setting.

And then when nothing got done to keep them both around makes him look just as guilty. But people saying he should of called the cops right away, im sorry I don't think it was his place.

But either way, nobody is worse than the guy who saw it. He should of NEVER went to Joe Pa on that, who had more of a moral responsibility than him? The fact that he saw it and didn't REALLY do what was right I take issue with more than Joe Pa. And I take ALOT more issue. When he saw that, it shouldn't of been an official report filled out to ur supervisor type of situation, when you SEE something like that you get your *** to the police station
</p>


He went to Joe Paterno. Other than the police, there is no higher authority at Penn State. Probably thinking he was risking his job in doing so. I don't see his culpability at all.</p>


Yes Joe Pa went to the AD. Thats the only reason he wasn't carted off in handcuffs with the other guys. He fofilled his legal responsibilities. But not his responsibilities to the college and to whats right.</p>

so u give the guy who actually WITNESSED A RAPE a pass for going to his superior but not Joe Pa for doing the same and all he had was hearsay?

I think thats crazy...

again i'm talking about initially when this all happened. I do agree that eventually Joe Pa should have made some type of move to make sure this didn't get swept under the rug.

But either way, don't mention moral responsibility to me and then say that the guy who saw a child get raped gets a pass because he told his manager

dezzzR
11-09-2011, 12:43 PM
This whole Penn St thing is absolutely disgusting and unfathomable to me. Who can you even trust with your kids in this world anymore? How can someone do that to children and get any possible enjoyment out of it. My daughter is 5 and I cringe to think of the predators out there and the things she will have to deal with in her future. I can only hope things go back to the way they were when we were growing up. The world seemed much more innocent then....
</p>


yea, it's extremely disturbing....youre right. Unfathomable is a good description.

I watched Sportscenter on my lunch break yesterday, and Matt Millen(PSU Alum)nearly broke down in tears while trying to discuss the topic. Truly terrible.</p>




it is gross

The thing that isn't really sitting well with me is that Joe PAterno is being roasted. NOt that it isn't deserved but essentially he did the same thing, that the guy who saw this did.

The guy who saw it, reported it to his superior - no police

Joe-Pa reported it to his superior - no police.

not saying that was the right thing, but lets make sure we're putting the guy who saw it happen in the same catagory as Joe Pa - wherever you put him.

And honestly Joe Pa didn't see anything, so he almost had to be diplomatic and follow the chain of command, but the dude who saw it should of been at the police station that night
</p>


you cant be serious man...
if someone told you something of that magnitude, something that absoultely terrible....youre saying you would tell your boss? **** no....you report it to who does the real investigating: the police.

If someone ever told me that, immediately reported, i dont care if it's heresay....you cant ignore jsut because you dont think it's true, or w/e the case is.....it's immoral.</p>

your reading comprehension isn't on today, your 0/2 lol

I personally hold Joe Pa responsibile as well. BUT my thing is that the guy who saw it and reported it to Joe Pa is actually worse than Joe Pa.

It is no worse, only difference is Joe Pa didn't see it. They both knew something happened and they both passed the buck without ever following up. The guy that saw it should have called the cops immediately, when Joe Pa found out he should have called the cops immediately and when the AD found out he should have done the same thing. Everyone is just as much at fault in my opinion and that is why the house needs to be cleaned. Everyone involved still works there. It happened in the showers in the locker room. They pass by that room every day of their life. How did the guy who originally saw it block that out. Every time he walked by the showers he would have to see it in his mind. I guess having a successful college program and money is more important than morals. I hope this guy gets the death penalty. It's always these big powerful guys who think they are above it all and abuse the power.


its ten times worse

One guy KNOWS it happened

another guy HEARD it happened.

You are starting to upset me. lol

He has to report it. So you heard a guy got shot and he is laying in the alley or you saw him get shot. So if you don't see it you are not going to report it?

So your nephew comes up to you and says my uncle touched me Matt and I didn't like it.

or

your nephew comes up to you and says my brother told me that dad touched him and he didn't like it.

How is that any ****ing different bro? You are not going to say anything since it's only hearsay?

You are walking a fine line here. It is your responsibility as a coach, mentor and above all a human being to say something regardless of the consequences. Furthermore, if you do say something which Joe Pa did and nothing happens then you can't sweep it under the rug. That is why his name will be tarnished forever and like I said earlier, it's only going to get worse once more stories start coming out.


i don't mean to upset you but bottom line, its hearsay to Joe Pa. The example you brought up is something thats happening in the moment- something that joe pa could go outside and see.

Truth is that it was an allegation to Joe Pa, this guy saw it. <u>Why is HE goin to his supervisor about this? </u>
Joe Pa played it right at first like I said. But the lack of reprocussion to Sandusky, or even if he didn't believe the WR coach the lack of reprocussion to him falls on Joe Pa.

If this guy had ran to Joe Pa's office while this guy was in the shower with the kid and did nothing, that would be a different story
because hes the head coach. the buck stops with him. imo anyway. the wr coach isnt going to risk his job going to the police and cause a media circus. he would never be trusted in a locker room again if the accusation turned out to be false. honestly i probably would of done the same thing and brought it up to the head coach. i would feel like the dean or whatever would take the head coach more seriously.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 12:47 PM
This whole Penn St thing is absolutely disgusting and unfathomable to me. Who can you even trust with your kids in this world anymore? How can someone do that to children and get any possible enjoyment out of it. My daughter is 5 and I cringe to think of the predators out there and the things she will have to deal with in her future. I can only hope things go back to the way they were when we were growing up. The world seemed much more innocent then....
</p>


yea, it's extremely disturbing....youre right. Unfathomable is a good description.

I watched Sportscenter on my lunch break yesterday, and Matt Millen(PSU Alum)nearly broke down in tears while trying to discuss the topic. Truly terrible.</p>




it is gross

The thing that isn't really sitting well with me is that Joe PAterno is being roasted. NOt that it isn't deserved but essentially he did the same thing, that the guy who saw this did.

The guy who saw it, reported it to his superior - no police

Joe-Pa reported it to his superior - no police.

not saying that was the right thing, but lets make sure we're putting the guy who saw it happen in the same catagory as Joe Pa - wherever you put him.

And honestly Joe Pa didn't see anything, so he almost had to be diplomatic and follow the chain of command, but the dude who saw it should of been at the police station that night
</p>


you cant be serious man...
if someone told you something of that magnitude, something that absoultely terrible....youre saying you would tell your boss? **** no....you report it to who does the real investigating: the police.

If someone ever told me that, immediately reported, i dont care if it's heresay....you cant ignore jsut because you dont think it's true, or w/e the case is.....it's immoral.</p>

your reading comprehension isn't on today, your 0/2 lol

I personally hold Joe Pa responsibile as well. BUT my thing is that the guy who saw it and reported it to Joe Pa is actually worse than Joe Pa.

It is no worse, only difference is Joe Pa didn't see it. They both knew something happened and they both passed the buck without ever following up. The guy that saw it should have called the cops immediately, when Joe Pa found out he should have called the cops immediately and when the AD found out he should have done the same thing. Everyone is just as much at fault in my opinion and that is why the house needs to be cleaned. Everyone involved still works there. It happened in the showers in the locker room. They pass by that room every day of their life. How did the guy who originally saw it block that out. Every time he walked by the showers he would have to see it in his mind. I guess having a successful college program and money is more important than morals. I hope this guy gets the death penalty. It's always these big powerful guys who think they are above it all and abuse the power.


its ten times worse

One guy KNOWS it happened

another guy HEARD it happened.

You are starting to upset me. lol

He has to report it. So you heard a guy got shot and he is laying in the alley or you saw him get shot. So if you don't see it you are not going to report it?

So your nephew comes up to you and says my uncle touched me Matt and I didn't like it.

or

your nephew comes up to you and says my brother told me that dad touched him and he didn't like it.

How is that any ****ing different bro? You are not going to say anything since it's only hearsay?

You are walking a fine line here. It is your responsibility as a coach, mentor and above all a human being to say something regardless of the consequences. Furthermore, if you do say something which Joe Pa did and nothing happens then you can't sweep it under the rug. That is why his name will be tarnished forever and like I said earlier, it's only going to get worse once more stories start coming out.


i don't mean to upset you but bottom line, its hearsay to Joe Pa. The example you brought up is something thats happening in the moment- something that joe pa could go outside and see.

Truth is that it was an allegation to Joe Pa, this guy saw it. <u>Why is HE goin to his supervisor about this? </u>
Joe Pa played it right at first like I said. But the lack of reprocussion to Sandusky, or even if he didn't believe the WR coach the lack of reprocussion to him falls on Joe Pa.

If this guy had ran to Joe Pa's office while this guy was in the shower with the kid and did nothing, that would be a different story
because hes the head coach. the buck stops with him. imo anyway. the wr coach isnt going to risk his job going to the police and cause a media circus. he would never be trusted in a locker room again if the accusation turned out to be false. honestly i probably would of done the same thing and brought it up to the head coach. i would feel like the dean or whatever would take the head coach more seriously.


you see something like that happen and u have any type of self respect or respect for mankind you go to the cops.

If he wanted to give Joe Pa a heads up before he went to the cops, thats fine. But to never bring it to the cops and stay working there and seeing sandusky, its unconceivable .

If possibly losing his job for reporting a rape isn't a respectable or valid excuse to let this guy destroy multiple childrens lives like this

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 12:49 PM
Maybe because I'm a parent I see it differently and have a hard time looking at it objectively.

JPizzack
11-09-2011, 12:50 PM
If someone ever told me that, immediately reported, i dont care if it's heresay....you cant ignore jsut because you dont think it's true, or w/e the case is.....it's immoral

Their "might" be legal ramifications in doing so (on your part I mean slander/defamation of character are the first things that comes to mind)....but I can't imagine that being an issue in my mind, if you believe something is happening you have a moral obligation...just as a human being, to make sure the situation is addressed.
</P>


sorry, went to lunch and didnt respond to any of this.</P>


Daven, wouldnt this be an example of protection under the whole good samaritan laws?

And also, just because something was reported doesnt mean it goes public. In this scenario, due to it being a big name college it might, but in everyday life...people wouldnt know until there was a conviction imo....unless it was something to this scale, where this guy has been through the courts numerous times. </P>


idk....</P>

dezzzR
11-09-2011, 12:51 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</p>


dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>

Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.
listen, its easy to sit here and say what we all would have done but we dont know the individuals. if im a wr coach, i hear/see this atrocious act, what do i do? do i go over my coach and straight to the police which could get me fired? do i go over my coach and go to the dean who may think im nuts with no proof which could also get me fired? or do i go to coach whos been here forever and let him go to the dean.

im sorry but i most likely would have done the same thing.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 12:52 PM
Maybe because I'm a parent I see it differently and have a hard time looking at it objectively.


as a parent i can't see how ur not foaming out the mouth for the guy who saw it and didn't go to the police

or for the AD.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 12:55 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</p>


dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>

Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.
listen, its easy to sit here and say what we all would have done but we dont know the individuals. if im a wr coach, i hear/see this atrocious act, what do i do? do i go over my coach and straight to the police which could get me fired? do i go over my coach and go to the dean who may think im nuts with no proof which could also get me fired? or do i go to coach whos been here forever and let him go to the dean.

im sorry but i most likely would have done the same thing.


no offense, i think if u see that and the first thought in your mind is your job then your a scumbag. Thats the one truth I think I could say 100% definitly. If I saw it with my own two eyes, I would go over there and try to stop it and then report it, zero doubt in my mind

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 12:58 PM
sorry, went to lunch and didnt respond to any of this.


Daven, wouldnt this be an example of protection under the whole good samaritan laws?</p>


</p>

In my experience nothing is black and white, you can use the good samaritan law to support your claim that you did nothing wrong...but that doesn't pay you're legal fee's if the opposing party decides to go after you.
</p>

dezzzR
11-09-2011, 01:03 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</p>


dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>

Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.
listen, its easy to sit here and say what we all would have done but we dont know the individuals. if im a wr coach, i hear/see this atrocious act, what do i do? do i go over my coach and straight to the police which could get me fired? do i go over my coach and go to the dean who may think im nuts with no proof which could also get me fired? or do i go to coach whos been here forever and let him go to the dean.

im sorry but i most likely would have done the same thing.


no offense, <u>i think if u see that and the first thought in your mind is your job then your a scumbag.</u> Thats the one truth I think I could say 100% definitly. If I saw it with my own two eyes, I would go over there and try to stop it and then report it, zero doubt in my mind
its easy to say without a kid and family to support. and theres nothing scumbaggish about not wanting to get involved in a certain situation

shocknaweny
11-09-2011, 01:05 PM
Lando PM.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 01:05 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</p>


dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>

Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.
listen, its easy to sit here and say what we all would have done but we dont know the individuals. if im a wr coach, i hear/see this atrocious act, what do i do? do i go over my coach and straight to the police which could get me fired? do i go over my coach and go to the dean who may think im nuts with no proof which could also get me fired? or do i go to coach whos been here forever and let him go to the dean.

im sorry but i most likely would have done the same thing.


no offense, <u>i think if u see that and the first thought in your mind is your job then your a scumbag.</u> Thats the one truth I think I could say 100% definitly. If I saw it with my own two eyes, I would go over there and try to stop it and then report it, zero doubt in my mind
its easy to say without a kid and family to support.


no its easy to say whenever

money isn't everything dezz. We're not talking about stealing a pack of twizzlers from 7-11 we're talking about a 12 year old kid having some 60 year old guy stick a **** in his *** against his will

That will never be a decision in my life on whats more important

galaxy10
11-09-2011, 01:09 PM
As a parent and athlete, I would have stopped it in the shower and then reported it to the head coach and if nothing was done, I would have told the head coach that I would report it to the police if they did not. I have reported wrongdoing of my bosses that were breaking the law and hurting people and got fired for it. I would do the same thing today. All of my bosses who were breaking the law got fired two years later. I moved on in my career. I am proud of what I did and I think that we all owe a duty to each other to do something when some one is getting hurt, especially a kid who cannot defend himself or herself.

JPizzack
11-09-2011, 01:10 PM
sorry, went to lunch and didnt respond to any of this.


Daven, wouldnt this be an example of protection under the whole good samaritan laws?</P>



</P>


In my experience nothing is black and white, you can use the good samaritan law to support your claim that you did nothing wrong...but that doesn't pay you're legal fee's if the opposing party decides to go after you.
</P>


</P>


i dont know...
I mean i would understand that people are concerned for their jobs, but the seriousness of the situation? cmon...
if you got fired over something like that? that's wrongful termination, and then everything goes to the courts anyway....investigations, and someone's going down for the crimes if they happened. There is no debate in my book.

What I dont understand is why Matt is saying the wr coach, and Paterno did the right thing by reporting it to school officials. Why is it a business decision? Why was that the right thing at all? i dont even get that...

WHAT IN THE **** does the school have to do child molestation allegations??!?!
WHO IN THE **** does someone think they are to make a "judgement call" on this kind of thing?!?!
Everyone from the guy who saw, paterno who made a bad call and only escalating it to his higher up, the AD for doing nothing upon hearing it, and the janitor for escalating it and also not reporting it....they are all guilty of withholding this from the police. like, i cant even see this any other way. You dont go to the cops? then youre withholding information. What in gods name makes it the AD's responsibility, moreso than it was the 2 people under him who knew the same information?!!? They are humans! they are bound by the law all the same. </P>

JPizzack
11-09-2011, 01:13 PM
btw....Matt, in no way am I attacking you for what youre saying...I'm just saying i cant even look at it the same way. not in the slightest.

shocknaweny
11-09-2011, 01:13 PM
should I take the offer down of Chiefs #1 back for a McFadden handcuff....???</P>


</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 01:15 PM
As a parent and athlete, I would have stopped it in the shower and then reported it to the head coach and if nothing was done, I would have told the head coach that I would report it to the police if they did not. I have reported wrongdoing of my bosses that were breaking the law and hurting people and got fired for it. I would do the same thing today. All of my bosses who were breaking the law got fired two years later. I moved on in my career. I am proud of what I did and I think that we all owe a duty to each other to do something when some one is getting hurt, especially a kid who cannot defend himself or herself.


exactly...

and welcome... i love when random people pop in lol

shocknaweny
11-09-2011, 01:15 PM
I gotta say next season I WILL be voting for smaller benches...U need help on your team because of injuries and u can't get it cause even back-ups are on peoples benches....very frustrating !!!

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 01:19 PM
sorry, went to lunch and didnt respond to any of this.


Daven, wouldnt this be an example of protection under the whole good samaritan laws?</p>



</p>


In my experience nothing is black and white, you can use the good samaritan law to support your claim that you did nothing wrong...but that doesn't pay you're legal fee's if the opposing party decides to go after you.
</p>


</p>


i dont know...
I mean i would understand that people are concerned for their jobs, but the seriousness of the situation? cmon...
if you got fired over something like that? that's wrongful termination, and then everything goes to the courts anyway....investigations, and someone's going down for the crimes if they happened. There is no debate in my book.

What I dont understand is why Matt is saying the wr coach, and Paterno did the right thing by reporting it to school officials. Why is it a business decision? Why was that the right thing at all? i dont even get that...

WHAT IN THE **** does the school have to do child molestation allegations??!?!
WHO IN THE **** does someone think they are to make a "judgement call" on this kind of thing?!?!
Everyone from the guy who saw, paterno who made a bad call and only escalating it to his higher up, the AD for doing nothing upon hearing it, and the janitor for escalating it and also not reporting it....they are all guilty of withholding this from the police. like, i cant even see this any other way. You dont go to the cops? then youre withholding information. What in gods name makes it the AD's responsibility, moreso than it was the 2 people under him who knew the same information?!!? They are humans! they are bound by the law all the same. </p>

well like I said before why was it even brough to Paterno? It was brought becuase this guy was notifying his boss. Theres just a protocal to inform the top people of situations like that so they can know. Where Joe dropped the ball was letting it just go away. He did what he was suppose to at first, but after nothing happened he should of pressed the issue or gone to the police himself

But not for nothing it wasn't Joe's place to go to the cops. He didn't see it, hes not the one that should notify the authorities on behalf of Penn State. He morally **** the bed by forgetting about it.

Your asking what the school has to do with it, well it was put through the process once the guy who saw it happen went to PAterno.

Why was it on Paterno at first? Thats my question to you.

dezzzR
11-09-2011, 01:20 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</p>


dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>

Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.
listen, its easy to sit here and say what we all would have done but we dont know the individuals. if im a wr coach, i hear/see this atrocious act, what do i do? do i go over my coach and straight to the police which could get me fired? do i go over my coach and go to the dean who may think im nuts with no proof which could also get me fired? or do i go to coach whos been here forever and let him go to the dean.

im sorry but i most likely would have done the same thing.


no offense, <u>i think if u see that and the first thought in your mind is your job then your a scumbag.</u> Thats the one truth I think I could say 100% definitly. If I saw it with my own two eyes, I would go over there and try to stop it and then report it, zero doubt in my mind
its easy to say without a kid and family to support.


no its easy to say whenever

money isn't everything dezz. We're not talking about stealing a pack of twizzlers from 7-11 we're talking about a 12 year old kid having some 60 year old guy stick a **** in his *** against his will

That will never be a decision in my life on whats more important
like i said we dont know any of these individuals. and youre not a scumbag if you dont want to get involved in a certain situation and its not like wr coach kept it to himself. he went and told the head coach, who lets be honest, has more pull in the school. maybe the wr coach felt he could handle it better or know what to do. wr coach is innocent.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 01:21 PM
btw....Matt, in no way am I attacking you for what youre saying...I'm just saying i cant even look at it the same way. not in the slightest.

like I said at first Joe Paterno was the manager who had an employee under him report something about another employee. He reported it to his advisors. Paterno wasn't a witness so he would of had no business going to the cops

But once the AD did nothing, no investigation, no reprocussion on the guy who reported that it happened or Sandusky, THATS when Paterno should of did the moral thing and taken this into his own hands. He didn't and thats where I say he was just as guilty.

But to say that right off the bat it was Paternos responsbility to report it to the authorities is wrong and inaccurate. He wasn't a witness and had allegations on his hand.

lttaylor56
11-09-2011, 01:21 PM
sorry, went to lunch and didnt respond to any of this.


Daven, wouldnt this be an example of protection under the whole good samaritan laws?</p>



</p>


In my experience nothing is black and white, you can use the good samaritan law to support your claim that you did nothing wrong...but that doesn't pay you're legal fee's if the opposing party decides to go after you.
</p>


</p>


i dont know...
I mean i would understand that people are concerned for their jobs, but the seriousness of the situation? cmon...
if you got fired over something like that? that's wrongful termination, and then everything goes to the courts anyway....investigations, and someone's going down for the crimes if they happened. There is no debate in my book.

What I dont understand is why Matt is saying the wr coach, and Paterno did the right thing by reporting it to school officials. Why is it a business decision? Why was that the right thing at all? i dont even get that...

WHAT IN THE **** does the school have to do child molestation allegations??!?!
WHO IN THE **** does someone think they are to make a "judgement call" on this kind of thing?!?!
Everyone from the guy who saw, paterno who made a bad call and only escalating it to his higher up, the AD for doing nothing upon hearing it, and the janitor for escalating it and also not reporting it....they are all guilty of withholding this from the police. like, i cant even see this any other way. You dont go to the cops? then youre withholding information. What in gods name makes it the AD's responsibility, moreso than it was the 2 people under him who knew the same information?!!? They are humans! they are bound by the law all the same. </p>Paterno did do the right thing, didn't he...from a procedural standpoint? He followed protocol and reported the incident to his senior. Just like in the military chain of command.

If we want to say he didn't act correctly from a personal standpoint, that's a diff story, but everyone's different. Personally, I would not of been able to control myself from pulluing sandusky off of him and giving him a few good wacks.

galaxy10
11-09-2011, 01:21 PM
I am no expert on this at all, but I think that under the law you don't have to report a crime if you see one and that includes child molestation. You do have to report it if you have a duty to do so, ie: schools, teachers, doctors, hospitals etc. I think that is what the difference is under the law. I for one would report it and stop it if I saw it. I think that is why only the school officials are on the hook. Not sure if the janitors are required to report it, it might be the people in authority. Just my two cents.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 01:21 PM
should I take the offer down of Chiefs #1 back for a McFadden handcuff....???</p>


</p>

as long as that handcuff is michael bush i think thats a good move

lttaylor56
11-09-2011, 01:22 PM
I find this picture and the thought of them being real pilots extremely hilarious

http://www.allmotivated.com/pictures/Demotivational-pictures-nothanks.jpg

JPizzack
11-09-2011, 01:23 PM
Why was it on Paterno at first? Thats my question to you.
</P>


he should have no more or no lessresponsibility to it, that's all i know. The only reason he's taking all the heat right now is because Paterno IS Penn State. it's the only recognizable Penn state name. So that's what the media has to run with.
Now....from a legal standpoint, that wont be how it works should anything come from this on him....
Ya gotta let the legal system sort this **** out now that it's out. all the investigations now will put this all in perspective...and hopefully we will all learn the specifics later.</P>

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 01:23 PM
btw....Matt, in no way am I attacking you for what youre saying...I'm just saying i cant even look at it the same way. not in the slightest.

The person who SAW it take place should have stopped it there, at the very least that person should have made it his #1) priority in life from that point forward to make sure this ******* got sent away.

Paterno on the other hand...he's hearing a "story" from someone most likely about someone he trusted...I can see why Paterno would only go so far as to report it and not follow through to the extent that the person who SAW the act would.

Hypothetical....

Say you had a cleaning lady and you were sharing an apparently with a family member say a brother, and the cleaning lady tells you he saw your brother with a young boy in the shower...

you are running immediately to the cops? I wouldn't, I would certainly question my brother about it, but I would be HIGHLY skeptical of the Cleaning Lady who I barely know..

ny06
11-09-2011, 01:24 PM
sorry, went to lunch and didnt respond to any of this.


Daven, wouldnt this be an example of protection under the whole good samaritan laws?</P>



</P>


In my experience nothing is black and white, you can use the good samaritan law to support your claim that you did nothing wrong...but that doesn't pay you're legal fee's if the opposing party decides to go after you.
</P>


</P>


i dont know...
I mean i would understand that people are concerned for their jobs, but the seriousness of the situation? cmon...
if you got fired over something like that? that's wrongful termination, and then everything goes to the courts anyway....investigations, and someone's going down for the crimes if they happened. There is no debate in my book.

What I dont understand is why Matt is saying the wr coach, and Paterno did the right thing by reporting it to school officials. Why is it a business decision? Why was that the right thing at all? i dont even get that...

WHAT IN THE **** does the school have to do child molestation allegations??!?!
WHO IN THE **** does someone think they are to make a "judgement call" on this kind of thing?!?!
Everyone from the guy who saw, paterno who made a bad call and only escalating it to his higher up, the AD for doing nothing upon hearing it, and the janitor for escalating it and also not reporting it....they are all guilty of withholding this from the police. like, i cant even see this any other way. You dont go to the cops? then youre withholding information. What in gods name makes it the AD's responsibility, moreso than it was the 2 people under him who knew the same information?!!? They are humans! they are bound by the law all the same. </P>




well like I said before why was it even brough to Paterno? It was brought becuase this guy was notifying his boss. Theres just a protocal to inform the top people of situations like that so they can know. Where Joe dropped the ball was letting it just go away. He did what he was suppose to at first, but after nothing happened he should of pressed the issue or gone to the police himself

But not for nothing it wasn't Joe's place to go to the cops. He didn't see it, hes not the one that should notify the authorities on behalf of Penn State. He morally **** the bed by forgetting about it.

Your asking what the school has to do with it, well it was put through the process once the guy who saw it happen went to PAterno.

Why was it on Paterno at first? Thats my question to you.
</P>


Protocol?</P>


**** that, a bunch of kids got molested by some sick pervert.</P>


The police should have been notified the second that pos McQueary caught Sandusky in the showers molesting that poor kid. </P>


For an ivy league, there a bunch of idiots over there. When did common sence fly out the window? Call the Police!!! A crime was commited...</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 01:26 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</p>


dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>

Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.
listen, its easy to sit here and say what we all would have done but we dont know the individuals. if im a wr coach, i hear/see this atrocious act, what do i do? do i go over my coach and straight to the police which could get me fired? do i go over my coach and go to the dean who may think im nuts with no proof which could also get me fired? or do i go to coach whos been here forever and let him go to the dean.

im sorry but i most likely would have done the same thing.


no offense, <u>i think if u see that and the first thought in your mind is your job then your a scumbag.</u> Thats the one truth I think I could say 100% definitly. If I saw it with my own two eyes, I would go over there and try to stop it and then report it, zero doubt in my mind
its easy to say without a kid and family to support.


no its easy to say whenever

money isn't everything dezz. We're not talking about stealing a pack of twizzlers from 7-11 we're talking about a 12 year old kid having some 60 year old guy stick a **** in his *** against his will

That will never be a decision in my life on whats more important
like i said we dont know any of these individuals. and youre not a scumbag if you dont want to get involved in a certain situation and its not like wr coach kept it to himself. he went and told the head coach, who lets be honest, has more pull in the school. maybe the wr coach felt he could handle it better or know what to do. wr coach is innocent.


yea i dont want to get involved in a car accident, but if some ****** TBones me at a cross section on my way home from work, i'm involved

Theres nothing this guy could do, hes involved against his will. Sometimes **** drops on your lap. I would judge anybody who didn't feel the need to stop a rape or do something to make sure that the scumbag got his.

On the level of the guy who saw it happen - who the g**** cares if he went to the head coach. Joe Paterno is the god of Penn State, not God. This may of happened AT Penn State with a Penn STate employee, but this isn't a Penn State matter.

IT became one when this guy decided to tell Joe Pa instead of the police, Joe Pa handled accordingly at first. Either way, this guy saw it happen and its incredible to me that you could say that he wa slooking out for his job and that makes it okay

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 01:27 PM
I gotta say next season I WILL be voting for smaller benches...U need help on your team because of injuries and u can't get it cause even back-ups are on peoples benches....very frustrating !!!

Michael Bush is one of the rare backups that wil always make a roster. Not for nothing, thats your bad for not targeting him as a McFad owner

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 01:31 PM
sorry, went to lunch and didnt respond to any of this.


Daven, wouldnt this be an example of protection under the whole good samaritan laws?</p>



</p>


In my experience nothing is black and white, you can use the good samaritan law to support your claim that you did nothing wrong...but that doesn't pay you're legal fee's if the opposing party decides to go after you.
</p>


</p>


i dont know...
I mean i would understand that people are concerned for their jobs, but the seriousness of the situation? cmon...
if you got fired over something like that? that's wrongful termination, and then everything goes to the courts anyway....investigations, and someone's going down for the crimes if they happened. There is no debate in my book.

What I dont understand is why Matt is saying the wr coach, and Paterno did the right thing by reporting it to school officials. Why is it a business decision? Why was that the right thing at all? i dont even get that...

WHAT IN THE **** does the school have to do child molestation allegations??!?!
WHO IN THE **** does someone think they are to make a "judgement call" on this kind of thing?!?!
Everyone from the guy who saw, paterno who made a bad call and only escalating it to his higher up, the AD for doing nothing upon hearing it, and the janitor for escalating it and also not reporting it....they are all guilty of withholding this from the police. like, i cant even see this any other way. You dont go to the cops? then youre withholding information. What in gods name makes it the AD's responsibility, moreso than it was the 2 people under him who knew the same information?!!? They are humans! they are bound by the law all the same. </p>




well like I said before why was it even brough to Paterno? It was brought becuase this guy was notifying his boss. Theres just a protocal to inform the top people of situations like that so they can know. Where Joe dropped the ball was letting it just go away. He did what he was suppose to at first, but after nothing happened he should of pressed the issue or gone to the police himself

But not for nothing it wasn't Joe's place to go to the cops. He didn't see it, hes not the one that should notify the authorities on behalf of Penn State. He morally **** the bed by forgetting about it.

Your asking what the school has to do with it, well it was put through the process once the guy who saw it happen went to PAterno.

Why was it on Paterno at first? Thats my question to you.
</p>


Protocol?</p>


**** that, a bunch of kids got molested by some sick pervert.</p>


The police should have been notified the second that pos McQueary caught Sandusky in the showers molesting that poor kid. </p>


For an ivy league, there a bunch of idiots over there. When did common sence fly out the window? Call the Police!!! A crime was commited...</p>

a) yes protocal. Its an allegation. Joe Pa didn't see it himself. For all he knows this guy could be ****ing crazy or have some personal vendetta against Sandusky and it could all be completely false. He went to his superiors, the people that ultimately make these decisions and notify the police and NCAA. And your talking in hindsight, put urself in the moment

b) I agree and I put that on the witness. Why he chose Joe Pa as a better person to bring this to than the police is beyond me. Thats what i've been trying to say, that guy is basically just as bad a Sandusky.

C) A crime was alledgedly committed. And when something like this happens the protocal is that it keeps being reported to the person above until the top guy has it and then they collectively notify the cops or FBI or whatever. Joe PA initially did the right thing. When nothing happened and it was swept under the rug - THATS where he **** the bed.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 01:32 PM
btw....Matt, in no way am I attacking you for what youre saying...I'm just saying i cant even look at it the same way. not in the slightest.

The person who SAW it take place should have stopped it there, at the very least that person should have made it his #1) priority in life from that point forward to make sure this ******* got sent away.

Paterno on the other hand...he's hearing a "story" from someone most likely about someone he trusted...I can see why Paterno would only go so far as to report it and not follow through to the extent that the person who SAW the act would.

Hypothetical....

Say you had a cleaning lady and you were sharing an apparently with a family member say a brother, and the cleaning lady tells you he saw your brother with a young boy in the shower...

you are running immediately to the cops? I wouldn't, I would certainly question my brother about it, but I would be HIGHLY skeptical of the Cleaning Lady who I barely know..


exactly but I also put it on Paterno for letting it die with the AD not notifying or investigating

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 01:33 PM
Why was it on Paterno at first? Thats my question to you.
</p>


he should have no more or no lessresponsibility to it, that's all i know. The only reason he's taking all the heat right now is because Paterno IS Penn State. it's the only recognizable Penn state name. So that's what the media has to run with.
Now....from a legal standpoint, that wont be how it works should anything come from this on him....
Ya gotta let the legal system sort this **** out now that it's out. all the investigations now will put this all in perspective...and hopefully we will all learn the specifics later.</p>

thats absolutely insane to say that the person WHO SAW A CRIME committed ahs the same resposibility as a person that heard a crime was committed.

lttaylor56
11-09-2011, 01:33 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</p>


dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>

Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.
listen, its easy to sit here and say what we all would have done but we dont know the individuals. if im a wr coach, i hear/see this atrocious act, what do i do? do i go over my coach and straight to the police which could get me fired? do i go over my coach and go to the dean who may think im nuts with no proof which could also get me fired? or do i go to coach whos been here forever and let him go to the dean.

im sorry but i most likely would have done the same thing.


no offense, <u>i think if u see that and the first thought in your mind is your job then your a scumbag.</u> Thats the one truth I think I could say 100% definitly. If I saw it with my own two eyes, I would go over there and try to stop it and then report it, zero doubt in my mind
its easy to say without a kid and family to support.


no its easy to say whenever

money isn't everything dezz. We're not talking about stealing a pack of twizzlers from 7-11 we're talking about a 12 year old kid having some 60 year old guy stick a **** in his *** against his will

That will never be a decision in my life on whats more important
like i said we dont know any of these individuals. and youre not a scumbag if you dont want to get involved in a certain situation and its not like wr coach kept it to himself. he went and told the head coach, who lets be honest, has more pull in the school. maybe the wr coach felt he could handle it better or know what to do. wr coach is innocent.


yea i dont want to get involved in a car accident, but if some ****** TBones me at a cross section on my way home from work, i'm involved

Theres nothing this guy could do, hes involved against his will. Sometimes **** drops on your lap. I would judge anybody who didn't feel the need to stop a rape or do something to make sure that the scumbag got his.

On the level of the guy who saw it happen - who the g**** cares if he went to the head coach. Joe Paterno is the god of Penn State, not God. This may of happened AT Penn State with a Penn STate employee, but this isn't a Penn State matter.

IT became one when this guy decided to tell Joe Pa instead of the police, Joe Pa handled accordingly at first. Either way, this guy saw it happen and its incredible to me that you could say that he wa slooking out for his job and that makes it okay
The past is past the future is now---let's give the kids(now 20+ yr old men) time in a room alone with Sandusky.

dezzzR
11-09-2011, 01:34 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</p>


dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>

Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.
listen, its easy to sit here and say what we all would have done but we dont know the individuals. if im a wr coach, i hear/see this atrocious act, what do i do? do i go over my coach and straight to the police which could get me fired? do i go over my coach and go to the dean who may think im nuts with no proof which could also get me fired? or do i go to coach whos been here forever and let him go to the dean.

im sorry but i most likely would have done the same thing.


no offense, <u>i think if u see that and the first thought in your mind is your job then your a scumbag.</u> Thats the one truth I think I could say 100% definitly. If I saw it with my own two eyes, I would go over there and try to stop it and then report it, zero doubt in my mind
its easy to say without a kid and family to support.


no its easy to say whenever

money isn't everything dezz. We're not talking about stealing a pack of twizzlers from 7-11 we're talking about a 12 year old kid having some 60 year old guy stick a **** in his *** against his will

That will never be a decision in my life on whats more important
like i said we dont know any of these individuals. and youre not a scumbag if you dont want to get involved in a certain situation and its not like wr coach kept it to himself. he went and told the head coach, who lets be honest, has more pull in the school. maybe the wr coach felt he could handle it better or know what to do. wr coach is innocent.


<u>yea i dont want to get involved in a car accident, but if some ****** TBones me at a cross section on my way home from work, i'm involved</u>

Theres nothing this guy could do, hes involved against his will. Sometimes **** drops on your lap. I would judge anybody who didn't feel the need to stop a rape or do something to make sure that the scumbag got his.

On the level of the guy who saw it happen - who the g**** cares if he went to the head coach. Joe Paterno is the god of Penn State, not God. This may of happened AT Penn State with a Penn STate employee, but this isn't a Penn State matter.

IT became one when this guy decided to tell Joe Pa instead of the police, Joe Pa handled accordingly at first. Either way, this guy saw it happen and its incredible to me that you could say that he wa slooking out for his job and that makes it okay
totally irrelevant. totally. the wr coach would be a witness on the street. if this is a car accident the kids the one that got tboned.

and how is that joe pa handled this "accordingly at first" but the wr coach didnt? the wr coach did the same thing as joe pa!!! he went to his supervisor!!

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 01:34 PM
sorry, went to lunch and didnt respond to any of this.


Daven, wouldnt this be an example of protection under the whole good samaritan laws?</p>



</p>


In my experience nothing is black and white, you can use the good samaritan law to support your claim that you did nothing wrong...but that doesn't pay you're legal fee's if the opposing party decides to go after you.
</p>


</p>


i dont know...
I mean i would understand that people are concerned for their jobs, but the seriousness of the situation? cmon...
if you got fired over something like that? that's wrongful termination, and then everything goes to the courts anyway....investigations, and someone's going down for the crimes if they happened. There is no debate in my book.

What I dont understand is why Matt is saying the wr coach, and Paterno did the right thing by reporting it to school officials. Why is it a business decision? Why was that the right thing at all? i dont even get that...

WHAT IN THE **** does the school have to do child molestation allegations??!?!
WHO IN THE **** does someone think they are to make a "judgement call" on this kind of thing?!?!
Everyone from the guy who saw, paterno who made a bad call and only escalating it to his higher up, the AD for doing nothing upon hearing it, and the janitor for escalating it and also not reporting it....they are all guilty of withholding this from the police. like, i cant even see this any other way. You dont go to the cops? then youre withholding information. What in gods name makes it the AD's responsibility, moreso than it was the 2 people under him who knew the same information?!!? They are humans! they are bound by the law all the same. </p>Paterno did do the right thing, didn't he...from a procedural standpoint? He followed protocol and reported the incident to his senior. Just like in the military chain of command.

If we want to say he didn't act correctly from a personal standpoint, that's a diff story, but everyone's different. Personally, I would not of been able to control myself from pulluing sandusky off of him and giving him a few good wacks.


exactly

i mean I don't mind if he chose to let the people above him handle that, but once he saw they weren't thats where I hold him responsible - for letting their lack of action sweep it under the rug.

JPizzack
11-09-2011, 01:34 PM
Paterno did do the right thing, didn't he...from a procedural standpoint? He followed protocol and reported the incident to his senior. Just like in the military chain of command.

If we want to say he didn't act correctly from a personal standpoint, that's a diff story, but everyone's different. Personally, I would not of been able to control myself from pulluing sandusky off of him and giving him a few good wacks.
</P>


well, i guess my overall point is that ethics and human nature should always override any type of "procedural chain" at a school or business when it comes to allegations as important as these. </P>

ny06
11-09-2011, 01:35 PM
sorry, went to lunch and didnt respond to any of this.


Daven, wouldnt this be an example of protection under the whole good samaritan laws?</P>



</P>


In my experience nothing is black and white, you can use the good samaritan law to support your claim that you did nothing wrong...but that doesn't pay you're legal fee's if the opposing party decides to go after you.
</P>


</P>


i dont know...
I mean i would understand that people are concerned for their jobs, but the seriousness of the situation? cmon...
if you got fired over something like that? that's wrongful termination, and then everything goes to the courts anyway....investigations, and someone's going down for the crimes if they happened. There is no debate in my book.

What I dont understand is why Matt is saying the wr coach, and Paterno did the right thing by reporting it to school officials. Why is it a business decision? Why was that the right thing at all? i dont even get that...

WHAT IN THE **** does the school have to do child molestation allegations??!?!
WHO IN THE **** does someone think they are to make a "judgement call" on this kind of thing?!?!
Everyone from the guy who saw, paterno who made a bad call and only escalating it to his higher up, the AD for doing nothing upon hearing it, and the janitor for escalating it and also not reporting it....they are all guilty of withholding this from the police. like, i cant even see this any other way. You dont go to the cops? then youre withholding information. What in gods name makes it the AD's responsibility, moreso than it was the 2 people under him who knew the same information?!!? They are humans! they are bound by the law all the same. </P>




well like I said before why was it even brough to Paterno? It was brought becuase this guy was notifying his boss. Theres just a protocal to inform the top people of situations like that so they can know. Where Joe dropped the ball was letting it just go away. He did what he was suppose to at first, but after nothing happened he should of pressed the issue or gone to the police himself

But not for nothing it wasn't Joe's place to go to the cops. He didn't see it, hes not the one that should notify the authorities on behalf of Penn State. He morally **** the bed by forgetting about it.

Your asking what the school has to do with it, well it was put through the process once the guy who saw it happen went to PAterno.

Why was it on Paterno at first? Thats my question to you.
</P>


Protocol?</P>


**** that, a bunch of kids got molested by some sick pervert.</P>


The police should have been notified the second that pos McQueary caught Sandusky in the showers molesting that poor kid. </P>


For an ivy league, there a bunch of idiots over there. When did common sence fly out the window? Call the Police!!! A crime was commited...</P>




a) <FONT color=#000000>yes protocal. Its an allegation</FONT>. Joe Pa didn't see it himself. For all he knows this guy could be ****ing crazy or have some personal vendetta against Sandusky and it could all be completely false. He went to his superiors, the people that ultimately make these decisions and notify the police and NCAA. And your talking in hindsight, put urself in the moment

b) I agree and I put that on the witness. Why he chose Joe Pa as a better person to bring this to than the police is beyond me. Thats what i've been trying to say, that guy is basically just as bad a Sandusky.

C) A crime was alledgedly committed. And when something like this happens the protocal is that it keeps being reported to the person above until the top guy has it and then they collectively notify the cops or FBI or whatever. Joe PA initially did the right thing. When nothing happened and it was swept under the rug - THATS where he **** the bed.
</P>


It sounds more of a cover up then protocol. </P>


Penn State tried to police this situation themselves, but what happened it came back and bit them in the ***!!!</P>


</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 01:35 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</p>


dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>

Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.
listen, its easy to sit here and say what we all would have done but we dont know the individuals. if im a wr coach, i hear/see this atrocious act, what do i do? do i go over my coach and straight to the police which could get me fired? do i go over my coach and go to the dean who may think im nuts with no proof which could also get me fired? or do i go to coach whos been here forever and let him go to the dean.

im sorry but i most likely would have done the same thing.


no offense, <u>i think if u see that and the first thought in your mind is your job then your a scumbag.</u> Thats the one truth I think I could say 100% definitly. If I saw it with my own two eyes, I would go over there and try to stop it and then report it, zero doubt in my mind
its easy to say without a kid and family to support.


no its easy to say whenever

money isn't everything dezz. We're not talking about stealing a pack of twizzlers from 7-11 we're talking about a 12 year old kid having some 60 year old guy stick a **** in his *** against his will

That will never be a decision in my life on whats more important
like i said we dont know any of these individuals. and youre not a scumbag if you dont want to get involved in a certain situation and its not like wr coach kept it to himself. he went and told the head coach, who lets be honest, has more pull in the school. maybe the wr coach felt he could handle it better or know what to do. wr coach is innocent.


yea i dont want to get involved in a car accident, but if some ****** TBones me at a cross section on my way home from work, i'm involved

Theres nothing this guy could do, hes involved against his will. Sometimes **** drops on your lap. I would judge anybody who didn't feel the need to stop a rape or do something to make sure that the scumbag got his.

On the level of the guy who saw it happen - who the g**** cares if he went to the head coach. Joe Paterno is the god of Penn State, not God. This may of happened AT Penn State with a Penn STate employee, but this isn't a Penn State matter.

IT became one when this guy decided to tell Joe Pa instead of the police, Joe Pa handled accordingly at first. Either way, this guy saw it happen and its incredible to me that you could say that he wa slooking out for his job and that makes it okay
The past is past the future is now---let's give the kids(now 20+ yr old men) time in a room alone with Sandusky.


I agree

eye for an eye

(oh no duck, daven is gonna start debating wtih me) lol

shocknaweny
11-09-2011, 01:38 PM
I gotta say next season I WILL be voting for smaller benches...U need help on your team because of injuries and u can't get it cause even back-ups are on peoples benches....very frustrating !!!

Michael Bush is one of the rare backups that wil always make a roster. Not for nothing, thats your bad for not targeting him as a McFad owner
</P>


</P>


true nuff''' but I will still be voting for smaller BN....the waiver wire is basically meaningless this season.</P>


</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 01:38 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</p>


dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>

Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.
listen, its easy to sit here and say what we all would have done but we dont know the individuals. if im a wr coach, i hear/see this atrocious act, what do i do? do i go over my coach and straight to the police which could get me fired? do i go over my coach and go to the dean who may think im nuts with no proof which could also get me fired? or do i go to coach whos been here forever and let him go to the dean.

im sorry but i most likely would have done the same thing.


no offense, <u>i think if u see that and the first thought in your mind is your job then your a scumbag.</u> Thats the one truth I think I could say 100% definitly. If I saw it with my own two eyes, I would go over there and try to stop it and then report it, zero doubt in my mind
its easy to say without a kid and family to support.


no its easy to say whenever

money isn't everything dezz. We're not talking about stealing a pack of twizzlers from 7-11 we're talking about a 12 year old kid having some 60 year old guy stick a **** in his *** against his will

That will never be a decision in my life on whats more important
like i said we dont know any of these individuals. and youre not a scumbag if you dont want to get involved in a certain situation and its not like wr coach kept it to himself. he went and told the head coach, who lets be honest, has more pull in the school. maybe the wr coach felt he could handle it better or know what to do. wr coach is innocent.


<u>yea i dont want to get involved in a car accident, but if some ****** TBones me at a cross section on my way home from work, i'm involved</u>

Theres nothing this guy could do, hes involved against his will. Sometimes **** drops on your lap. I would judge anybody who didn't feel the need to stop a rape or do something to make sure that the scumbag got his.

On the level of the guy who saw it happen - who the g**** cares if he went to the head coach. Joe Paterno is the god of Penn State, not God. This may of happened AT Penn State with a Penn STate employee, but this isn't a Penn State matter.

IT became one when this guy decided to tell Joe Pa instead of the police, Joe Pa handled accordingly at first. Either way, this guy saw it happen and its incredible to me that you could say that he wa slooking out for his job and that makes it okay
totally irrelevant. totally. the wr coach would be a witness on the street. if this is a car accident the kids the one that got tboned.

and how is that joe pa handled this "accordingly at first" but the wr coach didnt? the wr coach did the same thing as joe pa!!! he went to his supervisor!!


its not irrelevant at all. Once you witness a crime like that, you are involved. Thats the bottom line.


Because who the **** goes to their supervisor aft4er seeing a kid raped? Joe Pa was a middle man who had allegations dropped on his lap.

The Coach was a wtiness in a crime.

dezzzR
11-09-2011, 01:39 PM
Paterno did do the right thing, didn't he...from a procedural standpoint? He followed protocol and reported the incident to his senior. Just like in the military chain of command.

If we want to say he didn't act correctly from a personal standpoint, that's a diff story, but everyone's different. Personally, I would not of been able to control myself from pulluing sandusky off of him and giving him a few good wacks.
</p>


well, i guess my overall point is that ethics and human nature should always override any type of "procedural chain" at a school or business when it comes to allegations as important as these. </p>i agree 100% but thats not the world we live in unfortunately

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 01:41 PM
Paterno did do the right thing, didn't he...from a procedural standpoint? He followed protocol and reported the incident to his senior. Just like in the military chain of command.

If we want to say he didn't act correctly from a personal standpoint, that's a diff story, but everyone's different. Personally, I would not of been able to control myself from pulluing sandusky off of him and giving him a few good wacks.
</p>


well, i guess my overall point is that ethics and human nature should always override any type of "procedural chain" at a school or business when it comes to allegations as important as these. </p>

na i disagree...

Joe Pa SHOULD have did exactly what he did and then the school should of notified the authorities. Hes a football coach its not his place. Once he saw they did nothing is when he should stepped up.

WHat if he did call the cops and it turns out that Sundusky was innocent? It wasn't his place , he wasn't a witness, he wasn't a judge and jury. Make no mistake about it its a corporate mentality that he should of over ridden once he saw nothing was done.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 01:43 PM
I gotta say next season I WILL be voting for smaller benches...U need help on your team because of injuries and u can't get it cause even back-ups are on peoples benches....very frustrating !!!

Michael Bush is one of the rare backups that wil always make a roster. Not for nothing, thats your bad for not targeting him as a McFad owner
</p>


</p>


true nuff''' but I will still be voting for smaller BN....the waiver wire is basically meaningless this season.</p>


</p>

i disagree that haveing a ton of talent in the FA pool would make the waiver wire more meaningful. IT will just be a scape goat for weaker players who make bad decisions and don't draft good

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 01:46 PM
sorry, went to lunch and didnt respond to any of this.


Daven, wouldnt this be an example of protection under the whole good samaritan laws?</p>



</p>


In my experience nothing is black and white, you can use the good samaritan law to support your claim that you did nothing wrong...but that doesn't pay you're legal fee's if the opposing party decides to go after you.
</p>


</p>


i dont know...
I mean i would understand that people are concerned for their jobs, but the seriousness of the situation? cmon...
if you got fired over something like that? that's wrongful termination, and then everything goes to the courts anyway....investigations, and someone's going down for the crimes if they happened. There is no debate in my book.

What I dont understand is why Matt is saying the wr coach, and Paterno did the right thing by reporting it to school officials. Why is it a business decision? Why was that the right thing at all? i dont even get that...

WHAT IN THE **** does the school have to do child molestation allegations??!?!
WHO IN THE **** does someone think they are to make a "judgement call" on this kind of thing?!?!
Everyone from the guy who saw, paterno who made a bad call and only escalating it to his higher up, the AD for doing nothing upon hearing it, and the janitor for escalating it and also not reporting it....they are all guilty of withholding this from the police. like, i cant even see this any other way. You dont go to the cops? then youre withholding information. What in gods name makes it the AD's responsibility, moreso than it was the 2 people under him who knew the same information?!!? They are humans! they are bound by the law all the same. </p>




well like I said before why was it even brough to Paterno? It was brought becuase this guy was notifying his boss. Theres just a protocal to inform the top people of situations like that so they can know. Where Joe dropped the ball was letting it just go away. He did what he was suppose to at first, but after nothing happened he should of pressed the issue or gone to the police himself

But not for nothing it wasn't Joe's place to go to the cops. He didn't see it, hes not the one that should notify the authorities on behalf of Penn State. He morally **** the bed by forgetting about it.

Your asking what the school has to do with it, well it was put through the process once the guy who saw it happen went to PAterno.

Why was it on Paterno at first? Thats my question to you.
</p>


Protocol?</p>


**** that, a bunch of kids got molested by some sick pervert.</p>


The police should have been notified the second that pos McQueary caught Sandusky in the showers molesting that poor kid. </p>


For an ivy league, there a bunch of idiots over there. When did common sence fly out the window? Call the Police!!! A crime was commited...</p>




a) <font color="#000000">yes protocal. Its an allegation</font>. Joe Pa didn't see it himself. For all he knows this guy could be ****ing crazy or have some personal vendetta against Sandusky and it could all be completely false. He went to his superiors, the people that ultimately make these decisions and notify the police and NCAA. And your talking in hindsight, put urself in the moment

b) I agree and I put that on the witness. Why he chose Joe Pa as a better person to bring this to than the police is beyond me. Thats what i've been trying to say, that guy is basically just as bad a Sandusky.

C) A crime was alledgedly committed. And when something like this happens the protocal is that it keeps being reported to the person above until the top guy has it and then they collectively notify the cops or FBI or whatever. Joe PA initially did the right thing. When nothing happened and it was swept under the rug - THATS where he **** the bed.
</p>


It sounds more of a cover up then protocol. </p>


Penn State tried to police this situation themselves, but what happened it came back and bit them in the ***!!!</p>


</p>

your absolutely right, thats what it did turn into. Once it became that is where I put blame and shame on Joe Pa. Once it was just swept under the rug, he became an enabler for that and that makes him just as guilty.

But I can't say the way he handled it at first was wrong. Had the AD done his job NOBODY would of been looking for Joe Pa's head

lttaylor56
11-09-2011, 01:46 PM
Paterno did do the right thing, didn't he...from a procedural standpoint? He followed protocol and reported the incident to his senior. Just like in the military chain of command.

If we want to say he didn't act correctly from a personal standpoint, that's a diff story, but everyone's different. Personally, I would not of been able to control myself from pulluing sandusky off of him and giving him a few good wacks.
</p>


well, i guess my overall point is that ethics and human nature should always override any type of "procedural chain" at a school or business when it comes to allegations as important as these. </p>I know. I'm trying to separate emotion from following procedure myself here. This one tugs at my heart strings, but Paterno did do his job by the letter of his "job description."

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 01:48 PM
Paterno did do the right thing, didn't he...from a procedural standpoint? He followed protocol and reported the incident to his senior. Just like in the military chain of command.

If we want to say he didn't act correctly from a personal standpoint, that's a diff story, but everyone's different. Personally, I would not of been able to control myself from pulluing sandusky off of him and giving him a few good wacks.
</p>


well, i guess my overall point is that ethics and human nature should always override any type of "procedural chain" at a school or business when it comes to allegations as important as these. </p>I know. I'm trying to separate emotion from following procedure myself here. This one tugs at my heart strings, but Paterno did do his job by the letter of his "job description."


once he saw nothing being done - for him to sit back and accept that is where he went wrong

dezzzR
11-09-2011, 01:48 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</p>


dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>

Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.
listen, its easy to sit here and say what we all would have done but we dont know the individuals. if im a wr coach, i hear/see this atrocious act, what do i do? do i go over my coach and straight to the police which could get me fired? do i go over my coach and go to the dean who may think im nuts with no proof which could also get me fired? or do i go to coach whos been here forever and let him go to the dean.

im sorry but i most likely would have done the same thing.


no offense, <u>i think if u see that and the first thought in your mind is your job then your a scumbag.</u> Thats the one truth I think I could say 100% definitly. If I saw it with my own two eyes, I would go over there and try to stop it and then report it, zero doubt in my mind
its easy to say without a kid and family to support.


no its easy to say whenever

money isn't everything dezz. We're not talking about stealing a pack of twizzlers from 7-11 we're talking about a 12 year old kid having some 60 year old guy stick a **** in his *** against his will

That will never be a decision in my life on whats more important
like i said we dont know any of these individuals. and youre not a scumbag if you dont want to get involved in a certain situation and its not like wr coach kept it to himself. he went and told the head coach, who lets be honest, has more pull in the school. maybe the wr coach felt he could handle it better or know what to do. wr coach is innocent.


<u>yea i dont want to get involved in a car accident, but if some ****** TBones me at a cross section on my way home from work, i'm involved</u>

Theres nothing this guy could do, hes involved against his will. Sometimes **** drops on your lap. I would judge anybody who didn't feel the need to stop a rape or do something to make sure that the scumbag got his.

On the level of the guy who saw it happen - who the g**** cares if he went to the head coach. Joe Paterno is the god of Penn State, not God. This may of happened AT Penn State with a Penn STate employee, but this isn't a Penn State matter.

IT became one when this guy decided to tell Joe Pa instead of the police, Joe Pa handled accordingly at first. Either way, this guy saw it happen and its incredible to me that you could say that he wa slooking out for his job and that makes it okay
totally irrelevant. totally. the wr coach would be a witness on the street. if this is a car accident the kids the one that got tboned.

and how is that joe pa handled this "accordingly at first" but the wr coach didnt? the wr coach did the same thing as joe pa!!! he went to his supervisor!!


its not irrelevant at all. Once you witness a crime like that, you are involved. Thats the bottom line.


<u>Because who the **** goes to their supervisor aft4er seeing a kid raped? </u>Joe Pa was a middle man who had allegations dropped on his lap.

The Coach was a wtiness in a crime.
IT IS totally irrelevant because a car accident isnt a crime. AND if he did witness the car accident he CAN leave if he likes, he doesnt have to stay around.

I would after i round housed the perp to the face, and if joe didnt take action, then i would. we dont know what the wr coach was thinking or doing. for all we know he did intervene when he saw it happening,.

lttaylor56
11-09-2011, 01:50 PM
Paterno did do the right thing, didn't he...from a procedural standpoint? He followed protocol and reported the incident to his senior. Just like in the military chain of command.

If we want to say he didn't act correctly from a personal standpoint, that's a diff story, but everyone's different. Personally, I would not of been able to control myself from pulluing sandusky off of him and giving him a few good wacks.
</p>


well, i guess my overall point is that ethics and human nature should always override any type of "procedural chain" at a school or business when it comes to allegations as important as these. </p>I know. I'm trying to separate emotion from following procedure myself here. This one tugs at my heart strings, but Paterno did do his job by the letter of his "job description."


once he saw nothing being done - for him to sit back and accept that is where he went wrong
Yes-he should of questioned his superior as to the status of the situation

JPizzack
11-09-2011, 01:50 PM
Paterno did do the right thing, didn't he...from a procedural standpoint? He followed protocol and reported the incident to his senior. Just like in the military chain of command.

If we want to say he didn't act correctly from a personal standpoint, that's a diff story, but everyone's different. Personally, I would not of been able to control myself from pulluing sandusky off of him and giving him a few good wacks.
</P>


well, i guess my overall point is that ethics and human nature should always override any type of "procedural chain" at a school or business when it comes to allegations as important as these. </P>




na i disagree...

Joe Pa SHOULD have did exactly what he did and then the school should of notified the authorities. Hes a football coach its not his place. Once he saw they did nothing is when he should stepped up.

WHat if he did call the cops and it turns out that Sundusky was innocent? It wasn't his place , he wasn't a witness, he wasn't a judge and jury. Make no mistake about it its a corporate mentality that he should of over ridden once he saw nothing was done.
</P>


Well I can get on board with the fact that Paterno probably should have told this other guy it needed to be reported to the police. I'm not saying it's FAIR that it fell on Joe Pa's lap, but.....what happened, happened....and I dont feel it was handled the right way at all.
What happens OFF the football field is of no concern to the Athletic Director (well sure it's a concern of his as a "boss"), but child molestation? i could give 2 ****s what my boss says or does or thinks about what i personally do upon hearing of a crime like this!! You wanna fire me? fine, thenI'll drag you into it too...</P>

dezzzR
11-09-2011, 01:55 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</p>


dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>

Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.
listen, its easy to sit here and say what we all would have done but we dont know the individuals. if im a wr coach, i hear/see this atrocious act, what do i do? do i go over my coach and straight to the police which could get me fired? do i go over my coach and go to the dean who may think im nuts with no proof which could also get me fired? or do i go to coach whos been here forever and let him go to the dean.

im sorry but i most likely would have done the same thing.


no offense, <u>i think if u see that and the first thought in your mind is your job then your a scumbag.</u> Thats the one truth I think I could say 100% definitly. If I saw it with my own two eyes, I would go over there and try to stop it and then report it, zero doubt in my mind
its easy to say without a kid and family to support.


no its easy to say whenever

money isn't everything dezz. We're not talking about stealing a pack of twizzlers from 7-11 we're talking about a 12 year old kid having some 60 year old guy stick a **** in his *** against his will

That will never be a decision in my life on whats more important
like i said we dont know any of these individuals. and youre not a scumbag if you dont want to get involved in a certain situation and its not like wr coach kept it to himself. he went and told the head coach, who lets be honest, has more pull in the school. maybe the wr coach felt he could handle it better or know what to do. wr coach is innocent.


<u>yea i dont want to get involved in a car accident, but if some ****** TBones me at a cross section on my way home from work, i'm involved</u>

Theres nothing this guy could do, hes involved against his will. Sometimes **** drops on your lap. I would judge anybody who didn't feel the need to stop a rape or do something to make sure that the scumbag got his.

On the level of the guy who saw it happen - who the g**** cares if he went to the head coach. Joe Paterno is the god of Penn State, not God. This may of happened AT Penn State with a Penn STate employee, but this isn't a Penn State matter.

IT became one when this guy decided to tell Joe Pa instead of the police, Joe Pa handled accordingly at first. Either way, this guy saw it happen and its incredible to me that you could say that he wa slooking out for his job and that makes it okay
totally irrelevant. totally. the wr coach would be a witness on the street. if this is a car accident the kids the one that got tboned.

and how is that joe pa handled this "accordingly at first" but the wr coach didnt? the wr coach did the same thing as joe pa!!! he went to his supervisor!!


its not irrelevant at all. Once you witness a crime like that, you are involved. Thats the bottom line.


Because who the **** goes to their supervisor aft4er seeing a kid raped? Joe Pa was a middle man who had allegations dropped on his lap.
<u>
The Coach was a wtiness in a crime. </u>
being a witness doesnt make you the perp, or just as guilty. at the end of the day we KNOW the wr coach told SOMEONE with enough power to do something about it.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 01:55 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</p>


dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>

Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.
listen, its easy to sit here and say what we all would have done but we dont know the individuals. if im a wr coach, i hear/see this atrocious act, what do i do? do i go over my coach and straight to the police which could get me fired? do i go over my coach and go to the dean who may think im nuts with no proof which could also get me fired? or do i go to coach whos been here forever and let him go to the dean.

im sorry but i most likely would have done the same thing.


no offense, <u>i think if u see that and the first thought in your mind is your job then your a scumbag.</u> Thats the one truth I think I could say 100% definitly. If I saw it with my own two eyes, I would go over there and try to stop it and then report it, zero doubt in my mind
its easy to say without a kid and family to support.


no its easy to say whenever

money isn't everything dezz. We're not talking about stealing a pack of twizzlers from 7-11 we're talking about a 12 year old kid having some 60 year old guy stick a **** in his *** against his will

That will never be a decision in my life on whats more important
like i said we dont know any of these individuals. and youre not a scumbag if you dont want to get involved in a certain situation and its not like wr coach kept it to himself. he went and told the head coach, who lets be honest, has more pull in the school. maybe the wr coach felt he could handle it better or know what to do. wr coach is innocent.


<u>yea i dont want to get involved in a car accident, but if some ****** TBones me at a cross section on my way home from work, i'm involved</u>

Theres nothing this guy could do, hes involved against his will. Sometimes **** drops on your lap. I would judge anybody who didn't feel the need to stop a rape or do something to make sure that the scumbag got his.

On the level of the guy who saw it happen - who the g**** cares if he went to the head coach. Joe Paterno is the god of Penn State, not God. This may of happened AT Penn State with a Penn STate employee, but this isn't a Penn State matter.

IT became one when this guy decided to tell Joe Pa instead of the police, Joe Pa handled accordingly at first. Either way, this guy saw it happen and its incredible to me that you could say that he wa slooking out for his job and that makes it okay
totally irrelevant. totally. the wr coach would be a witness on the street. if this is a car accident the kids the one that got tboned.

and how is that joe pa handled this "accordingly at first" but the wr coach didnt? the wr coach did the same thing as joe pa!!! he went to his supervisor!!


its not irrelevant at all. Once you witness a crime like that, you are involved. Thats the bottom line.


<u>Because who the **** goes to their supervisor aft4er seeing a kid raped? </u>Joe Pa was a middle man who had allegations dropped on his lap.

The Coach was a wtiness in a crime.
IT IS totally irrelevant because a car accident isnt a crime. AND if he did witness the car accident he CAN leave if he likes, he doesnt have to stay around.

I would after i round housed the perp to the face, and if joe didnt take action, then i would. we dont know what the wr coach was thinking or doing. for all we know he did intervene when he saw it happening,.


The car accidenbt example wasn't an example of a crime to a crime - it was an example of being involved with something that you don't want to be involved with. If your hit by another car, your involved with a car accident. If you see a child get raped with your own two eyes in front of your face, your involved.

And thats my main point - possibly the biggest villian in this case is the guy that saw it and didn't try ot stop it and didn't go to the police. For the position he was in, going to your supervisor doesn't cut it.

But if your Joe P, you didn't witness anything. You have a story dropped on your lap, you don't know if its true or not so you follow protocal and you make sure its seen through. He didn't make sure it was seen through and thats what makes him guilty. I can't kill him for not goin to the police right away.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 01:56 PM
Paterno did do the right thing, didn't he...from a procedural standpoint? He followed protocol and reported the incident to his senior. Just like in the military chain of command.

If we want to say he didn't act correctly from a personal standpoint, that's a diff story, but everyone's different. Personally, I would not of been able to control myself from pulluing sandusky off of him and giving him a few good wacks.
</p>


well, i guess my overall point is that ethics and human nature should always override any type of "procedural chain" at a school or business when it comes to allegations as important as these. </p>I know. I'm trying to separate emotion from following procedure myself here. This one tugs at my heart strings, but Paterno did do his job by the letter of his "job description."


once he saw nothing being done - for him to sit back and accept that is where he went wrong
Yes-he should of questioned his superior as to the status of the situation


exactly

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 01:57 PM
I gotta say next season I WILL be voting for smaller benches...U need help on your team because of injuries and u can't get it cause even back-ups are on peoples benches....very frustrating !!!

Michael Bush is one of the rare backups that wil always make a roster. Not for nothing, thats your bad for not targeting him as a McFad owner
</p>


</p>


true nuff''' but I will still be voting for smaller BN....the waiver wire is basically meaningless this season.</p>


</p>.
i disagree that haveing a ton of talent in the FA pool would make the waiver wire more meaningful. IT will just be a scape goat for weaker players who make bad decisions and don't draft good



Agreed, I don't see either one as really making a difference
thus I will abstain from that vote when it takes place...either outcome
will result in the same situation no point in bothering imho

JPizzack
11-09-2011, 01:58 PM
Quite honestly....Paterno should have used his name power to do the right thing...

Youre an AD...you gonna fire Joe Paterno? THE HELLYOUARE! lol......
Nobody would fire Paterno for bringing this to light, hence why I feel it WASN'T handled right.</P>


ok, I think I'm out of ways to continue discussing this. I played all my cards =P</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 02:04 PM
Paterno did do the right thing, didn't he...from a procedural standpoint? He followed protocol and reported the incident to his senior. Just like in the military chain of command.

If we want to say he didn't act correctly from a personal standpoint, that's a diff story, but everyone's different. Personally, I would not of been able to control myself from pulluing sandusky off of him and giving him a few good wacks.
</p>


well, i guess my overall point is that ethics and human nature should always override any type of "procedural chain" at a school or business when it comes to allegations as important as these. </p>




na i disagree...

Joe Pa SHOULD have did exactly what he did and then the school should of notified the authorities. Hes a football coach its not his place. Once he saw they did nothing is when he should stepped up.

WHat if he did call the cops and it turns out that Sundusky was innocent? It wasn't his place , he wasn't a witness, he wasn't a judge and jury. Make no mistake about it its a corporate mentality that he should of over ridden once he saw nothing was done.
</p>


Well I can get on board with the fact that Paterno probably should have told this other guy it needed to be reported to the police. I'm not saying it's FAIR that it fell on Joe Pa's lap, but.....what happened, happened....and I dont feel it was handled the right way at all.
What happens OFF the football field is of no concern to the Athletic Director (well sure it's a concern of his as a "boss"), but child molestation? i could give 2 ****s what my boss says or does or thinks about what i personally do upon hearing of a crime like this!! You wanna fire me? fine, thenI'll drag you into it too...</p>

im not playing the fair card though. Its also not fair for the guy who saw it because he has to make the decision on what to do. IMO, he made the wrong one.

It was reported to Joe as an employee under him, it happened on grounds - i hav eno isse with the protocal as long as its seen all the way through it wasn't

JPizzack
11-09-2011, 02:07 PM
im not playing the fair card though. Its also not fair for <FONT color=#0000ff>the guy who saw it because he has to make the decision on what to do. IMO, he made the wrong one.
</FONT>
It was reported to Joe as an employee under him, it happened on grounds - i hav eno isse with the protocal as long as its seen all the way through it wasn't

</P>


oh absolutely, man....we're on the paterno thing because originally you had brought up that you were ticked that this was all falling on him, or however you worded it.</P>


that second part though, is where our opinions differ, thats all...</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 02:07 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</p>


dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>

Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.
listen, its easy to sit here and say what we all would have done but we dont know the individuals. if im a wr coach, i hear/see this atrocious act, what do i do? do i go over my coach and straight to the police which could get me fired? do i go over my coach and go to the dean who may think im nuts with no proof which could also get me fired? or do i go to coach whos been here forever and let him go to the dean.

im sorry but i most likely would have done the same thing.


no offense, <u>i think if u see that and the first thought in your mind is your job then your a scumbag.</u> Thats the one truth I think I could say 100% definitly. If I saw it with my own two eyes, I would go over there and try to stop it and then report it, zero doubt in my mind
its easy to say without a kid and family to support.


no its easy to say whenever

money isn't everything dezz. We're not talking about stealing a pack of twizzlers from 7-11 we're talking about a 12 year old kid having some 60 year old guy stick a **** in his *** against his will

That will never be a decision in my life on whats more important
like i said we dont know any of these individuals. and youre not a scumbag if you dont want to get involved in a certain situation and its not like wr coach kept it to himself. he went and told the head coach, who lets be honest, has more pull in the school. maybe the wr coach felt he could handle it better or know what to do. wr coach is innocent.


<u>yea i dont want to get involved in a car accident, but if some ****** TBones me at a cross section on my way home from work, i'm involved</u>

Theres nothing this guy could do, hes involved against his will. Sometimes **** drops on your lap. I would judge anybody who didn't feel the need to stop a rape or do something to make sure that the scumbag got his.

On the level of the guy who saw it happen - who the g**** cares if he went to the head coach. Joe Paterno is the god of Penn State, not God. This may of happened AT Penn State with a Penn STate employee, but this isn't a Penn State matter.

IT became one when this guy decided to tell Joe Pa instead of the police, Joe Pa handled accordingly at first. Either way, this guy saw it happen and its incredible to me that you could say that he wa slooking out for his job and that makes it okay
totally irrelevant. totally. the wr coach would be a witness on the street. if this is a car accident the kids the one that got tboned.

and how is that joe pa handled this "accordingly at first" but the wr coach didnt? the wr coach did the same thing as joe pa!!! he went to his supervisor!!


its not irrelevant at all. Once you witness a crime like that, you are involved. Thats the bottom line.


Because who the **** goes to their supervisor aft4er seeing a kid raped? Joe Pa was a middle man who had allegations dropped on his lap.
<u>
The Coach was a wtiness in a crime. </u>
being a witness doesnt make you the perp, or just as guilty. at the end of the day we KNOW the wr coach told SOMEONE with enough power to do something about it.


when u witness a grown *** man raping a child and u do nothing to stop it or to even really report it - it makes u just as guilty. You let it happen.

Its like your living the life of denial for him with these responses. Enough power? I didn't realize you couldn't be a WRs coach, but had to be a head coach of a college football team to report a rape...


good to know

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 02:09 PM
Quite honestly....Paterno should have used his name power to do the right thing...

Youre an AD...you gonna fire Joe Paterno? THE HELLYOUARE! lol......
Nobody would fire Paterno for bringing this to light, hence why I feel it WASN'T handled right.</p>


ok, I think I'm out of ways to continue discussing this. I played all my cards =P</p>

So one sided, flip the situation.

Say Paterno does what you suggested, it becomes a huge deal, everyone finds out about it...but it turns out the Wr Coach was just trying to pull something on the guy, was trying to get him in trouble maybe he wanted his job and this guy was actually innocent.

the innocent guy is now forever known as the guy who was alleged to have raped little boys, and whose fault would it be that this innocent mans life was ruined..Paterno's for using his "power" to do what he "thought" was the right thing.

Paterno heard a STORY...Paterno didn't SEE the act take place....he should have pressed the AD after he saw nothing was done...but like Matt said...at first he did exactly what he was supposed to do.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 02:09 PM
I gotta say next season I WILL be voting for smaller benches...U need help on your team because of injuries and u can't get it cause even back-ups are on peoples benches....very frustrating !!!

Michael Bush is one of the rare backups that wil always make a roster. Not for nothing, thats your bad for not targeting him as a McFad owner
</p>


</p>


true nuff''' but I will still be voting for smaller BN....the waiver wire is basically meaningless this season.</p>


</p>.
i disagree that haveing a ton of talent in the FA pool would make the waiver wire more meaningful. IT will just be a scape goat for weaker players who make bad decisions and don't draft good



Agreed, I don't see either one as really making a difference
thus I will abstain from that vote when it takes place...either outcome
will result in the same situation no point in bothering imho


i just would always vote for bigger benches because it isn't an armchair for weaker players. Its too cpompetitive in here for that lol

Morehead State
11-09-2011, 02:10 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</P>


dude you STILL have to report it!</P>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</P>




Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.
listen, its easy to sit here and say what we all would have done but we dont know the individuals. if im a wr coach, i hear/see this atrocious act, what do i do? do i go over my coach and straight to the police which could get me fired? do i go over my coach and go to the dean who may think im nuts with no proof which could also get me fired? or do i go to coach whos been here forever and let him go to the dean.

im sorry but i most likely would have done the same thing.


no offense, <U>i think if u see that and the first thought in your mind is your job then your a scumbag.</U> Thats the one truth I think I could say 100% definitly. If I saw it with my own two eyes, I would go over there and try to stop it and then report it, zero doubt in my mind
its easy to say without a kid and family to support.


no its easy to say whenever

money isn't everything dezz. We're not talking about stealing a pack of twizzlers from 7-11 we're talking about a 12 year old kid having some 60 year old guy stick a **** in his *** against his will

That will never be a decision in my life on whats more important
like i said we dont know any of these individuals. and youre not a scumbag if you dont want to get involved in a certain situation and its not like wr coach kept it to himself. he went and told the head coach, who lets be honest, has more pull in the school. maybe the wr coach felt he could handle it better or know what to do. wr coach is innocent.


<U>yea i dont want to get involved in a car accident, but if some ****** TBones me at a cross section on my way home from work, i'm involved</U>

Theres nothing this guy could do, hes involved against his will. Sometimes **** drops on your lap. I would judge anybody who didn't feel the need to stop a rape or do something to make sure that the scumbag got his.

On the level of the guy who saw it happen - who the g**** cares if he went to the head coach. Joe Paterno is the god of Penn State, not God. This may of happened AT Penn State with a Penn STate employee, but this isn't a Penn State matter.

IT became one when this guy decided to tell Joe Pa instead of the police, Joe Pa handled accordingly at first. Either way, this guy saw it happen and its incredible to me that you could say that he wa slooking out for his job and that makes it okay
totally irrelevant. totally. the wr coach would be a witness on the street. if this is a car accident the kids the one that got tboned.

and how is that joe pa handled this "accordingly at first" but the wr coach didnt? the wr coach did the same thing as joe pa!!! he went to his supervisor!!


its not irrelevant at all. Once you witness a crime like that, you are involved. Thats the bottom line.


Because who the **** goes to their supervisor aft4er seeing a kid raped? Joe Pa was a middle man who had allegations dropped on his lap.
<U>
The Coach was a wtiness in a crime. </U>
being a witness doesnt make you the perp, or just as guilty. at the end of the day we KNOW the wr coach told SOMEONE with enough power to do something about it.


when u witness a grown *** man raping a child and u do nothing to stop it or to even really report it - it makes u just as guilty. You let it happen.

Its like your living the life of denial for him with these responses. Enough power? I didn't realize you couldn't be a WRs coach, but had to be a head coach of a college football team to report a rape...


good to know
</P>


Did I hear the reports wrong? I heard he reported it to Joe Paterno himself.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 02:10 PM
Quite honestly....Paterno should have used his name power to do the right thing...

Youre an AD...you gonna fire Joe Paterno? THE HELLYOUARE! lol......
Nobody would fire Paterno for bringing this to light, hence why I feel it WASN'T handled right.</p>


ok, I think I'm out of ways to continue discussing this. I played all my cards =P</p>

well by him telling the higher up he did bring it to light to the administration

But I dont think he should of did more than that initially. Once it got wiped away, thats when i agree Joe Pa should of used his power to do the right thing

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 02:11 PM
im not playing the fair card though. Its also not fair for <font color="#0000ff">the guy who saw it because he has to make the decision on what to do. IMO, he made the wrong one.
</font>
It was reported to Joe as an employee under him, it happened on grounds - i hav eno isse with the protocal as long as its seen all the way through it wasn't

</p>


oh absolutely, man....we're on the paterno thing because originally you had brought up that you were ticked that this was all falling on him, or however you worded it.</p>


that second part though, is where our opinions differ, thats all...</p>

im just annoyed that it seems like Paterno is taking MORE heat than that guy. I mean at thee end of the day it was all stories to Joe Pa, he didn't see it happen that guy did

Morehead State
11-09-2011, 02:12 PM
Quite honestly....Paterno should have used his name power to do the right thing...

Youre an AD...you gonna fire Joe Paterno? THE HELLYOUARE! lol......
Nobody would fire Paterno for bringing this to light, hence why I feel it WASN'T handled right.</P>


ok, I think I'm out of ways to continue discussing this. I played all my cards =P</P>




well by him telling the higher up he did bring it to light to the administration

But I dont think he should of did more than that initially. Once it got wiped away, thats when i agree Joe Pa should of used his power to do the right thing
</P>


Joe Paterno is the highest "higher up" there is at Penn State.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 02:13 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</p>


dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>




Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.
listen, its easy to sit here and say what we all would have done but we dont know the individuals. if im a wr coach, i hear/see this atrocious act, what do i do? do i go over my coach and straight to the police which could get me fired? do i go over my coach and go to the dean who may think im nuts with no proof which could also get me fired? or do i go to coach whos been here forever and let him go to the dean.

im sorry but i most likely would have done the same thing.


no offense, <u>i think if u see that and the first thought in your mind is your job then your a scumbag.</u> Thats the one truth I think I could say 100% definitly. If I saw it with my own two eyes, I would go over there and try to stop it and then report it, zero doubt in my mind
its easy to say without a kid and family to support.


no its easy to say whenever

money isn't everything dezz. We're not talking about stealing a pack of twizzlers from 7-11 we're talking about a 12 year old kid having some 60 year old guy stick a **** in his *** against his will

That will never be a decision in my life on whats more important
like i said we dont know any of these individuals. and youre not a scumbag if you dont want to get involved in a certain situation and its not like wr coach kept it to himself. he went and told the head coach, who lets be honest, has more pull in the school. maybe the wr coach felt he could handle it better or know what to do. wr coach is innocent.


<u>yea i dont want to get involved in a car accident, but if some ****** TBones me at a cross section on my way home from work, i'm involved</u>

Theres nothing this guy could do, hes involved against his will. Sometimes **** drops on your lap. I would judge anybody who didn't feel the need to stop a rape or do something to make sure that the scumbag got his.

On the level of the guy who saw it happen - who the g**** cares if he went to the head coach. Joe Paterno is the god of Penn State, not God. This may of happened AT Penn State with a Penn STate employee, but this isn't a Penn State matter.

IT became one when this guy decided to tell Joe Pa instead of the police, Joe Pa handled accordingly at first. Either way, this guy saw it happen and its incredible to me that you could say that he wa slooking out for his job and that makes it okay
totally irrelevant. totally. the wr coach would be a witness on the street. if this is a car accident the kids the one that got tboned.

and how is that joe pa handled this "accordingly at first" but the wr coach didnt? the wr coach did the same thing as joe pa!!! he went to his supervisor!!


its not irrelevant at all. Once you witness a crime like that, you are involved. Thats the bottom line.


Because who the **** goes to their supervisor aft4er seeing a kid raped? Joe Pa was a middle man who had allegations dropped on his lap.
<u>
The Coach was a wtiness in a crime. </u>
being a witness doesnt make you the perp, or just as guilty. at the end of the day we KNOW the wr coach told SOMEONE with enough power to do something about it.


when u witness a grown *** man raping a child and u do nothing to stop it or to even really report it - it makes u just as guilty. You let it happen.

Its like your living the life of denial for him with these responses. Enough power? I didn't realize you couldn't be a WRs coach, but had to be a head coach of a college football team to report a rape...


good to know
</p>


Did I hear the reports wrong? I heard he reported it to Joe Paterno himself.</p>

no he did report to Paterno and PAterno reported it to the AD

but who gives a ****. Why would he even go to Paterno?

the real questions u should ask your self is:

1) Why didn't he try to stop it?

2) Why did he report it to Paterno and not the police?

this wasn't some second hand story he heard, he saw this **** happen with his own eyes

dezzzR
11-09-2011, 02:14 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</p>


dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>

Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.
listen, its easy to sit here and say what we all would have done but we dont know the individuals. if im a wr coach, i hear/see this atrocious act, what do i do? do i go over my coach and straight to the police which could get me fired? do i go over my coach and go to the dean who may think im nuts with no proof which could also get me fired? or do i go to coach whos been here forever and let him go to the dean.

im sorry but i most likely would have done the same thing.


no offense, <u>i think if u see that and the first thought in your mind is your job then your a scumbag.</u> Thats the one truth I think I could say 100% definitly. If I saw it with my own two eyes, I would go over there and try to stop it and then report it, zero doubt in my mind
its easy to say without a kid and family to support.


no its easy to say whenever

money isn't everything dezz. We're not talking about stealing a pack of twizzlers from 7-11 we're talking about a 12 year old kid having some 60 year old guy stick a **** in his *** against his will

That will never be a decision in my life on whats more important
like i said we dont know any of these individuals. and youre not a scumbag if you dont want to get involved in a certain situation and its not like wr coach kept it to himself. he went and told the head coach, who lets be honest, has more pull in the school. maybe the wr coach felt he could handle it better or know what to do. wr coach is innocent.


<u>yea i dont want to get involved in a car accident, but if some ****** TBones me at a cross section on my way home from work, i'm involved</u>

Theres nothing this guy could do, hes involved against his will. Sometimes **** drops on your lap. I would judge anybody who didn't feel the need to stop a rape or do something to make sure that the scumbag got his.

On the level of the guy who saw it happen - who the g**** cares if he went to the head coach. Joe Paterno is the god of Penn State, not God. This may of happened AT Penn State with a Penn STate employee, but this isn't a Penn State matter.

IT became one when this guy decided to tell Joe Pa instead of the police, Joe Pa handled accordingly at first. Either way, this guy saw it happen and its incredible to me that you could say that he wa slooking out for his job and that makes it okay
totally irrelevant. totally. the wr coach would be a witness on the street. if this is a car accident the kids the one that got tboned.

and how is that joe pa handled this "accordingly at first" but the wr coach didnt? the wr coach did the same thing as joe pa!!! he went to his supervisor!!


its not irrelevant at all. Once you witness a crime like that, you are involved. Thats the bottom line.


<u>Because who the **** goes to their supervisor aft4er seeing a kid raped? </u>Joe Pa was a middle man who had allegations dropped on his lap.

The Coach was a wtiness in a crime.
IT IS totally irrelevant because a car accident isnt a crime. AND if he did witness the car accident he CAN leave if he likes, he doesnt have to stay around.

I would after i round housed the perp to the face, and if joe didnt take action, then i would. we dont know what the wr coach was thinking or doing. for all we know he did intervene when he saw it happening,.


The car accidenbt example wasn't an example of a crime to a crime - it was an example of being involved with something that you don't want to be involved with. If your hit by another car, your involved with a car accident. If you see a child get raped with your own two eyes in front of your face, your involved.

And thats my main point -<u> possibly the biggest villian in this case is the guy that saw it and didn't try ot stop it and didn't go to the police.</u> For the position he was in, going to your supervisor doesn't cut it.

But if your Joe P, you didn't witness anything. You have a story dropped on your lap, you don't know if its true or not so you follow protocal and you make sure its seen through. He didn't make sure it was seen through and thats what makes him guilty. I can't kill him for not goin to the police right away.
i just cant agree with that and i think thats a major problem in this country. were focusing on someone other than the perp. whats the wr coach guilty of? we should be focusing on the perp.

anyway the wr coach goes about this situation, hes screwed. go to the cops over the coachs head about an in school matter(of course i dont see it that way, but obviously penn state did), then joe losses all trust him and a media circus ensues, hed get fired.

dont do anything, live in guilt forever

and so he went to the coaches and now hell most likely still get fired.

now his name will forever be connected to this, its not just a job, this is his career.
do you not see how anything he does hes ****ed? the only thing hes guilty of is being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 02:16 PM
Quite honestly....Paterno should have used his name power to do the right thing...

Youre an AD...you gonna fire Joe Paterno? THE HELLYOUARE! lol......
Nobody would fire Paterno for bringing this to light, hence why I feel it WASN'T handled right.</p>


ok, I think I'm out of ways to continue discussing this. I played all my cards =P</p>




well by him telling the higher up he did bring it to light to the administration

But I dont think he should of did more than that initially. Once it got wiped away, thats when i agree Joe Pa should of used his power to do the right thing
</p>


Joe Paterno is the highest "higher up" there is at Penn State.</p>

don't fool yourself. The guy can't even speak a complete sentence. As much of a legend he is, theres also reports about him just being there for publicity and to be the figure of Penn State.

No coach is greater than the administration that highers and fires him and he reports to.

Botton liune is that he initially did the right thing and had the AD did what he was suppose to do, nobody would be second guessing Paterno for not going to the police right away. NOBODY

Paterno became a scumbag one he realized nothing was done about it or was going to be done about it and he didn't care.

dezzzR
11-09-2011, 02:16 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</p>


dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>

Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.
listen, its easy to sit here and say what we all would have done but we dont know the individuals. if im a wr coach, i hear/see this atrocious act, what do i do? do i go over my coach and straight to the police which could get me fired? do i go over my coach and go to the dean who may think im nuts with no proof which could also get me fired? or do i go to coach whos been here forever and let him go to the dean.

im sorry but i most likely would have done the same thing.


no offense, <u>i think if u see that and the first thought in your mind is your job then your a scumbag.</u> Thats the one truth I think I could say 100% definitly. If I saw it with my own two eyes, I would go over there and try to stop it and then report it, zero doubt in my mind
its easy to say without a kid and family to support.


no its easy to say whenever

money isn't everything dezz. We're not talking about stealing a pack of twizzlers from 7-11 we're talking about a 12 year old kid having some 60 year old guy stick a **** in his *** against his will

That will never be a decision in my life on whats more important
like i said we dont know any of these individuals. and youre not a scumbag if you dont want to get involved in a certain situation and its not like wr coach kept it to himself. he went and told the head coach, who lets be honest, has more pull in the school. maybe the wr coach felt he could handle it better or know what to do. wr coach is innocent.


<u>yea i dont want to get involved in a car accident, but if some ****** TBones me at a cross section on my way home from work, i'm involved</u>

Theres nothing this guy could do, hes involved against his will. Sometimes **** drops on your lap. I would judge anybody who didn't feel the need to stop a rape or do something to make sure that the scumbag got his.

On the level of the guy who saw it happen - who the g**** cares if he went to the head coach. Joe Paterno is the god of Penn State, not God. This may of happened AT Penn State with a Penn STate employee, but this isn't a Penn State matter.

IT became one when this guy decided to tell Joe Pa instead of the police, Joe Pa handled accordingly at first. Either way, this guy saw it happen and its incredible to me that you could say that he wa slooking out for his job and that makes it okay
totally irrelevant. totally. the wr coach would be a witness on the street. if this is a car accident the kids the one that got tboned.

and how is that joe pa handled this "accordingly at first" but the wr coach didnt? the wr coach did the same thing as joe pa!!! he went to his supervisor!!


its not irrelevant at all. Once you witness a crime like that, you are involved. Thats the bottom line.


Because who the **** goes to their supervisor aft4er seeing a kid raped? Joe Pa was a middle man who had allegations dropped on his lap.
<u>
The Coach was a wtiness in a crime. </u>
being a witness doesnt make you the perp, or just as guilty. at the end of the day we KNOW the wr coach told SOMEONE with enough power to do something about it.


when u witness a grown *** man raping a child<u> and u do nothing t</u>o stop it or to even really report it - it makes u just as guilty. You let it happen.

Its like your living the life of denial for him with these responses. Enough power? I didn't realize you couldn't be a WRs coach, but had to be a head coach of a college football team to report a rape...


good to know
stop saying he did nothing cause its not true. he told the coach. power, respect of the dean, whatever it is joe has more of it than the wr coach.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 02:19 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</p>


dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>

Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.
listen, its easy to sit here and say what we all would have done but we dont know the individuals. if im a wr coach, i hear/see this atrocious act, what do i do? do i go over my coach and straight to the police which could get me fired? do i go over my coach and go to the dean who may think im nuts with no proof which could also get me fired? or do i go to coach whos been here forever and let him go to the dean.

im sorry but i most likely would have done the same thing.


no offense, <u>i think if u see that and the first thought in your mind is your job then your a scumbag.</u> Thats the one truth I think I could say 100% definitly. If I saw it with my own two eyes, I would go over there and try to stop it and then report it, zero doubt in my mind
its easy to say without a kid and family to support.


no its easy to say whenever

money isn't everything dezz. We're not talking about stealing a pack of twizzlers from 7-11 we're talking about a 12 year old kid having some 60 year old guy stick a **** in his *** against his will

That will never be a decision in my life on whats more important
like i said we dont know any of these individuals. and youre not a scumbag if you dont want to get involved in a certain situation and its not like wr coach kept it to himself. he went and told the head coach, who lets be honest, has more pull in the school. maybe the wr coach felt he could handle it better or know what to do. wr coach is innocent.


<u>yea i dont want to get involved in a car accident, but if some ****** TBones me at a cross section on my way home from work, i'm involved</u>

Theres nothing this guy could do, hes involved against his will. Sometimes **** drops on your lap. I would judge anybody who didn't feel the need to stop a rape or do something to make sure that the scumbag got his.

On the level of the guy who saw it happen - who the g**** cares if he went to the head coach. Joe Paterno is the god of Penn State, not God. This may of happened AT Penn State with a Penn STate employee, but this isn't a Penn State matter.

IT became one when this guy decided to tell Joe Pa instead of the police, Joe Pa handled accordingly at first. Either way, this guy saw it happen and its incredible to me that you could say that he wa slooking out for his job and that makes it okay
totally irrelevant. totally. the wr coach would be a witness on the street. if this is a car accident the kids the one that got tboned.

and how is that joe pa handled this "accordingly at first" but the wr coach didnt? the wr coach did the same thing as joe pa!!! he went to his supervisor!!


its not irrelevant at all. Once you witness a crime like that, you are involved. Thats the bottom line.


<u>Because who the **** goes to their supervisor aft4er seeing a kid raped? </u>Joe Pa was a middle man who had allegations dropped on his lap.

The Coach was a wtiness in a crime.
IT IS totally irrelevant because a car accident isnt a crime. AND if he did witness the car accident he CAN leave if he likes, he doesnt have to stay around.

I would after i round housed the perp to the face, and if joe didnt take action, then i would. we dont know what the wr coach was thinking or doing. for all we know he did intervene when he saw it happening,.


The car accidenbt example wasn't an example of a crime to a crime - it was an example of being involved with something that you don't want to be involved with. If your hit by another car, your involved with a car accident. If you see a child get raped with your own two eyes in front of your face, your involved.

And thats my main point -<u> possibly the biggest villian in this case is the guy that saw it and didn't try ot stop it and didn't go to the police.</u> For the position he was in, going to your supervisor doesn't cut it.

But if your Joe P, you didn't witness anything. You have a story dropped on your lap, you don't know if its true or not so you follow protocal and you make sure its seen through. He didn't make sure it was seen through and thats what makes him guilty. I can't kill him for not goin to the police right away.
i just cant agree with that and i think thats a major problem in this country. were focusing on someone other than the perp. whats the wr coach guilty of? we should be focusing on the perp.

anyway the wr coach goes about this situation, hes screwed. go to the cops over the coachs head about an in school matter(of course i dont see it that way, but obviously penn state did), then joe losses all trust him and a media circus ensues, hed get fired.

dont do anything, live in guilt forever

and so he went to the coaches and now hell most likely still get fired.

now his name will forever be connected to this, its not just a job, this is his career.
do you not see how anything he does hes ****ed? the only thing hes guilty of is being in the wrong place at the wrong time.


we're focused on the WR coach for not stopping it or deciding to make a real report of it. HE saw a kid get hurt and he wants to talk to Joe Pa? Lol REALLY

Joe Pa can't even speak in complete sentences for the past 20 years. Hes a half year away from dementia.

If he did the right thing right away, u think he would of been black balled for reporting a rape to the police?

I think we live in a ****ed up world, but im not buying that one. I think most college football programs go by the motto of character, doing the right things, and standing up for what you believe. I think he would of been seen as a savior (until they realize that he let Sandusky get enough thrusts in to pop all over the little kid like he was a pornstar instead of going in and choking the old dirty **** out )

if theres anybody that shouldn't of been on any type of protocal, it was this WR coach. ITs disturbing that he thought he should of gone to JP instead of the police

Morehead State
11-09-2011, 02:21 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</P>


dude you STILL have to report it!</P>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</P>




Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.
listen, its easy to sit here and say what we all would have done but we dont know the individuals. if im a wr coach, i hear/see this atrocious act, what do i do? do i go over my coach and straight to the police which could get me fired? do i go over my coach and go to the dean who may think im nuts with no proof which could also get me fired? or do i go to coach whos been here forever and let him go to the dean.

im sorry but i most likely would have done the same thing.


no offense, <U>i think if u see that and the first thought in your mind is your job then your a scumbag.</U> Thats the one truth I think I could say 100% definitly. If I saw it with my own two eyes, I would go over there and try to stop it and then report it, zero doubt in my mind
its easy to say without a kid and family to support.


no its easy to say whenever

money isn't everything dezz. We're not talking about stealing a pack of twizzlers from 7-11 we're talking about a 12 year old kid having some 60 year old guy stick a **** in his *** against his will

That will never be a decision in my life on whats more important
like i said we dont know any of these individuals. and youre not a scumbag if you dont want to get involved in a certain situation and its not like wr coach kept it to himself. he went and told the head coach, who lets be honest, has more pull in the school. maybe the wr coach felt he could handle it better or know what to do. wr coach is innocent.


<U>yea i dont want to get involved in a car accident, but if some ****** TBones me at a cross section on my way home from work, i'm involved</U>

Theres nothing this guy could do, hes involved against his will. Sometimes **** drops on your lap. I would judge anybody who didn't feel the need to stop a rape or do something to make sure that the scumbag got his.

On the level of the guy who saw it happen - who the g**** cares if he went to the head coach. Joe Paterno is the god of Penn State, not God. This may of happened AT Penn State with a Penn STate employee, but this isn't a Penn State matter.

IT became one when this guy decided to tell Joe Pa instead of the police, Joe Pa handled accordingly at first. Either way, this guy saw it happen and its incredible to me that you could say that he wa slooking out for his job and that makes it okay
totally irrelevant. totally. the wr coach would be a witness on the street. if this is a car accident the kids the one that got tboned.

and how is that joe pa handled this "accordingly at first" but the wr coach didnt? the wr coach did the same thing as joe pa!!! he went to his supervisor!!


its not irrelevant at all. Once you witness a crime like that, you are involved. Thats the bottom line.


Because who the **** goes to their supervisor aft4er seeing a kid raped? Joe Pa was a middle man who had allegations dropped on his lap.
<U>
The Coach was a wtiness in a crime. </U>
being a witness doesnt make you the perp, or just as guilty. at the end of the day we KNOW the wr coach told SOMEONE with enough power to do something about it.


when u witness a grown *** man raping a child and u do nothing to stop it or to even really report it - it makes u just as guilty. You let it happen.

Its like your living the life of denial for him with these responses. Enough power? I didn't realize you couldn't be a WRs coach, but had to be a head coach of a college football team to report a rape...


good to know
</P>


Did I hear the reports wrong? I heard he reported it to Joe Paterno himself.</P>




no he did report to Paterno and PAterno reported it to the AD

but who gives a ****. Why would he even go to Paterno?

the real questions u should ask your self is:

1) Why didn't he try to stop it?

2) Why did he report it to Paterno and not the police?

this wasn't some second hand story he heard, he saw this **** happen with his own eyes
</P>


Because Joe Paterno is the most important person at Penn State. Anyone there knows that. If he went straight to Joe Paterno himself, he showed a lot of guts.</P>


And this happened many years ago as I understand. Joe Pa was much younger. I don't think you understand the significance of Joe Paterno at PSU. You make it sound like he's in some kind of middle management. "Reporting to higher ups" THERE IS NO FRIGGIN HIGHER UP THAN JOE PA.</P>


How is it you don't get this.</P>

JPizzack
11-09-2011, 02:22 PM
im just annoyed that it seems like Paterno is taking MORE heat than that guy. I mean at thee end of the day it was all stories to Joe Pa, he didn't see it happen that guy did
</P>


No, I understand....but he's the name here....idk who the other guy really was. It's a media thing. Like i said earlier thought: in the eyes of the law, it won't Paterno taking all the heat.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 02:22 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</p>


dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>

Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.
listen, its easy to sit here and say what we all would have done but we dont know the individuals. if im a wr coach, i hear/see this atrocious act, what do i do? do i go over my coach and straight to the police which could get me fired? do i go over my coach and go to the dean who may think im nuts with no proof which could also get me fired? or do i go to coach whos been here forever and let him go to the dean.

im sorry but i most likely would have done the same thing.


no offense, <u>i think if u see that and the first thought in your mind is your job then your a scumbag.</u> Thats the one truth I think I could say 100% definitly. If I saw it with my own two eyes, I would go over there and try to stop it and then report it, zero doubt in my mind
its easy to say without a kid and family to support.


no its easy to say whenever

money isn't everything dezz. We're not talking about stealing a pack of twizzlers from 7-11 we're talking about a 12 year old kid having some 60 year old guy stick a **** in his *** against his will

That will never be a decision in my life on whats more important
like i said we dont know any of these individuals. and youre not a scumbag if you dont want to get involved in a certain situation and its not like wr coach kept it to himself. he went and told the head coach, who lets be honest, has more pull in the school. maybe the wr coach felt he could handle it better or know what to do. wr coach is innocent.


<u>yea i dont want to get involved in a car accident, but if some ****** TBones me at a cross section on my way home from work, i'm involved</u>

Theres nothing this guy could do, hes involved against his will. Sometimes **** drops on your lap. I would judge anybody who didn't feel the need to stop a rape or do something to make sure that the scumbag got his.

On the level of the guy who saw it happen - who the g**** cares if he went to the head coach. Joe Paterno is the god of Penn State, not God. This may of happened AT Penn State with a Penn STate employee, but this isn't a Penn State matter.

IT became one when this guy decided to tell Joe Pa instead of the police, Joe Pa handled accordingly at first. Either way, this guy saw it happen and its incredible to me that you could say that he wa slooking out for his job and that makes it okay
totally irrelevant. totally. the wr coach would be a witness on the street. if this is a car accident the kids the one that got tboned.

and how is that joe pa handled this "accordingly at first" but the wr coach didnt? the wr coach did the same thing as joe pa!!! he went to his supervisor!!


its not irrelevant at all. Once you witness a crime like that, you are involved. Thats the bottom line.


Because who the **** goes to their supervisor aft4er seeing a kid raped? Joe Pa was a middle man who had allegations dropped on his lap.
<u>
The Coach was a wtiness in a crime. </u>
being a witness doesnt make you the perp, or just as guilty. at the end of the day we KNOW the wr coach told SOMEONE with enough power to do something about it.


when u witness a grown *** man raping a child<u> and u do nothing t</u>o stop it or to even really report it - it makes u just as guilty. You let it happen.

Its like your living the life of denial for him with these responses. Enough power? I didn't realize you couldn't be a WRs coach, but had to be a head coach of a college football team to report a rape...


good to know
stop saying he did nothing cause its not true. he told the coach. power, respect of the dean, whatever it is joe has more of it than the wr coach.


hes the guy that should of been to the police. How long did this case happen agian? Hes said nothing since then? He let Sandusky finish instead of stopping it from happening?

oh but he told Joe P, ur right. What a guy. Joe has ZERO more power when it comes to the court of law. Infact seeing as how this guy is an eye witness, he actually has more power

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 02:23 PM
Joe Paterno is the highest "higher up" there is at Penn State.</p>

Doesn't matter whose higher up in Penn state, this is a criminal offense it's not in "Penn States" jurisdiction, the WITNESS had a moral obligation to make sure this ******* got what he deserved....the WITNESS failed to do so, he went to Joe Paterno who may or may not have believed his story...but followed Penn State protocol.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 02:25 PM
another guy HEARD it happened.
</p>


dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>




Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.

You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.
listen, its easy to sit here and say what we all would have done but we dont know the individuals. if im a wr coach, i hear/see this atrocious act, what do i do? do i go over my coach and straight to the police which could get me fired? do i go over my coach and go to the dean who may think im nuts with no proof which could also get me fired? or do i go to coach whos been here forever and let him go to the dean.

im sorry but i most likely would have done the same thing.


no offense, <u>i think if u see that and the first thought in your mind is your job then your a scumbag.</u> Thats the one truth I think I could say 100% definitly. If I saw it with my own two eyes, I would go over there and try to stop it and then report it, zero doubt in my mind
its easy to say without a kid and family to support.


no its easy to say whenever

money isn't everything dezz. We're not talking about stealing a pack of twizzlers from 7-11 we're talking about a 12 year old kid having some 60 year old guy stick a **** in his *** against his will

That will never be a decision in my life on whats more important
like i said we dont know any of these individuals. and youre not a scumbag if you dont want to get involved in a certain situation and its not like wr coach kept it to himself. he went and told the head coach, who lets be honest, has more pull in the school. maybe the wr coach felt he could handle it better or know what to do. wr coach is innocent.


<u>yea i dont want to get involved in a car accident, but if some ****** TBones me at a cross section on my way home from work, i'm involved</u>

Theres nothing this guy could do, hes involved against his will. Sometimes **** drops on your lap. I would judge anybody who didn't feel the need to stop a rape or do something to make sure that the scumbag got his.

On the level of the guy who saw it happen - who the g**** cares if he went to the head coach. Joe Paterno is the god of Penn State, not God. This may of happened AT Penn State with a Penn STate employee, but this isn't a Penn State matter.

IT became one when this guy decided to tell Joe Pa instead of the police, Joe Pa handled accordingly at first. Either way, this guy saw it happen and its incredible to me that you could say that he wa slooking out for his job and that makes it okay
totally irrelevant. totally. the wr coach would be a witness on the street. if this is a car accident the kids the one that got tboned.

and how is that joe pa handled this "accordingly at first" but the wr coach didnt? the wr coach did the same thing as joe pa!!! he went to his supervisor!!


its not irrelevant at all. Once you witness a crime like that, you are involved. Thats the bottom line.


Because who the **** goes to their supervisor aft4er seeing a kid raped? Joe Pa was a middle man who had allegations dropped on his lap.
<u>
The Coach was a wtiness in a crime. </u>
being a witness doesnt make you the perp, or just as guilty. at the end of the day we KNOW the wr coach told SOMEONE with enough power to do something about it.


when u witness a grown *** man raping a child and u do nothing to stop it or to even really report it - it makes u just as guilty. You let it happen.

Its like your living the life of denial for him with these responses. Enough power? I didn't realize you couldn't be a WRs coach, but had to be a head coach of a college football team to report a rape...


good to know
</p>


Did I hear the reports wrong? I heard he reported it to Joe Paterno himself.</p>




no he did report to Paterno and PAterno reported it to the AD

but who gives a ****. Why would he even go to Paterno?

the real questions u should ask your self is:

1) Why didn't he try to stop it?

2) Why did he report it to Paterno and not the police?

this wasn't some second hand story he heard, he saw this **** happen with his own eyes
</p>


Because Joe Paterno is the most important person at Penn State. Anyone there knows that. If he went straight to Joe Paterno himself, he showed a lot of guts.</p>


And this happened many years ago as I understand. Joe Pa was much younger. I don't think you understand the significance of Joe Paterno at PSU. You make it sound like he's in some kind of middle management. "Reporting to higher ups" THERE IS NO FRIGGIN HIGHER UP THAN JOE PA.</p>


How is it you don't get this.</p>

WHO THE **** CARES WHO THE MAN IS AT PEN NSTATE?!

Honestly, what the **** does that have to do with anything

This guy just saw a little kid get raped and your talking to me about the heirarchy and politics of a college, what the **** is wrong with you. What does that have to do with this guy not going to the police or stopping the rape when he saw it?

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 02:27 PM
and when it comes to any type of issue like this, from any type of crime big or small Joe P has ZERO say in it I would think. Just because hes the face of the school, you think he makes every decision?

And I also disagree that it was hard. It may be of been very easy for him to go to Joe P.

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 02:29 PM
Quite honestly....Paterno should have used his name power to do the right thing...

Youre an AD...you gonna fire Joe Paterno? THE HELLYOUARE! lol......
Nobody would fire Paterno for bringing this to light, hence why I feel it WASN'T handled right.</p>

Exactly Pizz. If people won't listen to him then who will they?

I honestly can't believe you are even taking this stance Matt....don't know why?

It's kind of ridiculous. It's a matter of morals, not of chain of command.

He didn't say anything because it would shatter the football program, scholarships and most importantly money. Everyone involved turned their back to it. Maybe the kid didn't say anything to anyone else but Joe because he knew no one would believe him. They would believe Joe and he didn't do ****. That is why he is more at fault in my eyes. He is the most trusted guy there and did nothing. If he would have walked in the shower and seen it himself he probably would have made the same choice unfortunately because that is basically what he did. Imagine how many other victims he could have saved as well. Lord knows how many more times after this sick **** did things to kids.

I can't even read this **** anymore. I wish I never brought it up. I have lost respect for some people today honestly.

JPizzack
11-09-2011, 02:30 PM
WHO THE **** CARES WHO THE MAN IS AT PEN NSTATE?!

Honestly, what the **** does that have to do with anything

This guy just saw a little kid get raped and your talking to me about the heirarchy and politics of a college, what the **** is wrong with you. What does that have to do with this guy not going to the police or stopping the rape when he saw it?
</P>


yupppp and thats exactly why i said ALL the people were in the wrong here. NOBODY did ANYTHING.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 02:31 PM
Joe Paterno is the highest "higher up" there is at Penn State.</p>

Doesn't matter whose higher up in Penn state, this is a criminal offense it's not in "Penn States" jurisdiction, the WITNESS had a moral obligation to make sure this ******* got what he deserved....the WITNESS failed to do so, he went to Joe Paterno who may or may not have believed his story...but followed Penn State protocol.


lol I really think Moorehead is mistaking the pull of Joe Paterno as soimething hes not. Theres reports he doesn't even recruite or even really coach anymore. Hes on the sidelines without headphones on. Hes basically a glorified cheerleader at this point. He basically has minimal coaching duties and doesn't even know his players by name.

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 02:32 PM
Joe Paterno is the highest "higher up" there is at Penn State.
This is what you don't understand Matt.

It's like Coach K at Duke. They run the mother****er. There is no one higher.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 02:33 PM
WHO THE **** CARES WHO THE MAN IS AT PEN NSTATE?!

Honestly, what the **** does that have to do with anything

This guy just saw a little kid get raped and your talking to me about the heirarchy and politics of a college, what the **** is wrong with you. What does that have to do with this guy not going to the police or stopping the rape when he saw it?
</p>


yupppp and thats exactly why i said ALL the people were in the wrong here. NOBODY did ANYTHING.</p>

i disagree...

JP wasn't a witness. He was approached as an employee by an employee and followed the chain of command. Once nothing was done is where he dropped the ball. It wasn't Paterno;s place to call the police, he didn't witness the crime and has no clue if theres any validity to the charges. NOW we know its true, but at the time he probably didn't

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 02:36 PM
Quite honestly....Paterno should have used his name power to do the right thing...

Youre an AD...you gonna fire Joe Paterno? THE HELLYOUARE! lol......
Nobody would fire Paterno for bringing this to light, hence why I feel it WASN'T handled right.</p>

Exactly Pizz. If people won't listen to him then who will they?

I honestly can't believe you are even taking this stance Matt....don't know why?

It's kind of ridiculous. It's a matter of morals, not of chain of command.

He didn't say anything because it would shatter the football program, scholarships and most importantly money. Everyone involved turned their back to it. Maybe the kid didn't say anything to anyone else but Joe because he knew no one would believe him. They would believe Joe and he didn't do ****. That is why he is more at fault in my eyes. He is the most trusted guy there and did nothing. If he would have walked in the shower and seen it himself he probably would have made the same choice unfortunately because that is basically what he did. Imagine how many other victims he could have saved as well. Lord knows how many more times after this sick **** did things to kids.

I can't even read this **** anymore. I wish I never brought it up. I have lost respect for some people today honestly.


well whatever. Your being emotional with 20/20 hindsight, your not being realistic. First off it should of never been brought to Joe P. Once it was, he brought it to the people he should have. Once they swept it under the run, thats when Joe P should of stepped up and he didnt and thats where he was wrong morally.

Im sorry but u've completely ignored the scenerio we brought up that this guy wasn't telling the truth and none of this really happened. You can' tjust take somebodies word for it and go to the lengths with it. That would of been morally wrong of Paterno. Had it not happened and Paterno did that, he would of ruined SAnduskys life and the kids life, while also destroying a respectable place.

And not for nothing, if this definitly happened who could even fathom going to PAterno about it and not to the police. Completey understand PAternot being hesitant at first

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 02:37 PM
Also,

You, Daven and Dezz make it sound like this happened a year or 2 ago. This happened in the 90's. Before the days of lawsuits and defamation and all that. All he would have had to do is say something and everyone would have been all over him. If the kid says something they might look at him like a moron and nothing happens. He showed alot of guts to go to Joe.

Life now is not like it was when this happened and came to light. The kids are heroes for coming forward. I hope Penn St gets a death sentence for this. It's a ****ing embarrassment to America.

I certainly hope everyone in here would speak up god forbid something happened to someone you know. Whether it was someone you never met in your life or your best friend. It's a sick world...

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 02:37 PM
and lando i thin kur bat **** crazy for not taking issue from the source of all of this (besides sandusky obviously) and thats the WR coach WHO SAW THIS HAPPEN and didn't go to stop it and who thought it would be a better idea to go to somebody that could actually do NOTHING as oppose to going to the police.

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 02:38 PM
Because Joe Paterno is the most important person at Penn State. Anyone there knows that. If he went straight to Joe Paterno himself, he showed a lot of guts.</p>


And this happened many years ago as I understand. Joe Pa was much younger. I don't think you understand the significance of Joe Paterno at PSU. You make it sound like he's in some kind of middle management. "Reporting to higher ups" THERE IS NO FRIGGIN HIGHER UP THAN JOE PA.</p>


How is it you don't get this.</p>

When you see a Pedophile sodomize a child in front of your eyes "reporting it to higher ups" simply is NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

You need to stop it then and there yourself baring that..say you panic like wuss and fail to save the child right then and there....you go to the COPS if he wants to stop by and let Paterno know thats up to him...but you go to the ****ing police you don't tell the Head Coach.

This has NOTHING to do with Penn State University this has to do with a Pedo raping a child...a criminal offense.

I will not put the same responsibility on Paterno hearing the story as I do the Coach who WITNESSED the act.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 02:39 PM
Also,

You, Daven and Dezz make it sound like this happened a year or 2 ago. This happened in the 90's. Before the days of lawsuits and defamation and all that. All he would have had to do is say something and everyone would have been all over him. If the kid says something they might look at him like a moron and nothing happens. He showed alot of guts to go to Joe.

Life now is not like it was when this happened and came to light. The kids are heroes for coming forward. I hope Penn St gets a death sentence for this. It's a ****ing embarrassment to America.

I certainly hope everyone in here would speak up god forbid something happened to someone you know. Whether it was someone you never met in your life or your best friend. It's a sick world...


your really not reading anything that me or daven is saying. Read what we say then make your comments because from your past two posts I can't even fathom you actually grasping our points

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 02:39 PM
Joe Paterno is the highest "higher up" there is at Penn State.
This is what you don't understand Matt.

It's like Coach K at Duke. They run the mother****er. There is no one higher.


your a ****in fool if u think that.

I bet u said the same thing about Jim TRessell

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 02:40 PM
Because Joe Paterno is the most important person at Penn State. Anyone there knows that. If he went straight to Joe Paterno himself, he showed a lot of guts.</p>


And this happened many years ago as I understand. Joe Pa was much younger. I don't think you understand the significance of Joe Paterno at PSU. You make it sound like he's in some kind of middle management. "Reporting to higher ups" THERE IS NO FRIGGIN HIGHER UP THAN JOE PA.</p>


How is it you don't get this.</p>

When you see a Pedophile sodomize a child in front of your eyes "reporting it to higher ups" simply is NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

You need to stop it then and there yourself baring that..say you panic like wuss and fail to save the child right then and there....you go to the COPS if he wants to stop by and let Paterno know thats up to him...but you go to the ****ing police you don't tell the Head Coach.

This has NOTHING to do with Penn State University this has to do with a Pedo raping a child...a criminal offense.

I will not put the same responsibility on Paterno hearing the story as I do the Coach who WITNESSED the act.



absolutely, thank u for summarizing everything i've been saying

+100000%

JPizzack
11-09-2011, 02:45 PM
WHO THE **** CARES WHO THE MAN IS AT PEN NSTATE?!

Honestly, what the **** does that have to do with anything

This guy just saw a little kid get raped and your talking to me about the heirarchy and politics of a college, what the **** is wrong with you. What does that have to do with this guy not going to the police or stopping the rape when he saw it?
</P>


yupppp and thats exactly why i said ALL the people were in the wrong here. NOBODY did ANYTHING.</P>




i disagree...

JP wasn't a witness. He was approached as an employee by an employee and followed the chain of command. Once nothing was done is where he dropped the ball. It wasn't Paterno;s place to call the police, he didn't witness the crime and has no clue if theres any validity to the charges. NOW we know its true, but at the time he probably didn't
</P>


honestly matt...i dont care...
If one co-worker came up to me for some reason and told me that they witnessed another co-worker molesting a child. if that person didn't call the police right there....youre ****ing right I would make that phone call. i have more allegiance to helplesschildren than I do my coworkers.
I dont care about the feelings of someone I'm accusing....let the authorities sort it out. A college is not the authorities. If someone is innocent, great...they can prove it.
IT IS NOT ANY PERSON'S PLACE TO MAKE A JUDGMENT CALL ON WHETHER OR NOT THE CRIME WAS COMMITED OTHER THAN POLICE, DETECTIVES, etc., LAWYERS, JUDGES AND JURY.....that's it. plain and simple. the school has absolutely NO busines in this situation.</P>

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 02:48 PM
<div class="report">


Although he did not practice, Hakeem Nicks (hamstring) was able to run "full speed" for the second straight day on Wednesday.</p>
</div>
<div class="impact">
He's now hoping to participate in individual drills
on Thursday, but sounds like a long-shot to turn in a full practice.
Nicks is looking much more questionable for Week 10 than originally
expected, and could end up being a game-time decision. His status could
change in a hurry the next two days, but it's clear you need to have an
alternative ready.
</div>

lttaylor56
11-09-2011, 02:48 PM
Quite honestly....Paterno should have used his name power to do the right thing...

Youre an AD...you gonna fire Joe Paterno? THE HELLYOUARE! lol......
Nobody would fire Paterno for bringing this to light, hence why I feel it WASN'T handled right.</p>


ok, I think I'm out of ways to continue discussing this. I played all my cards =P</p>You do have a good point there.

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 02:49 PM
<div class="report">


Andre Johnson (hamstring) did no running at
Texans practice Wednesday, and coach Gary Kubiak expects him to be a
"weekend decision" for Week 10.</p>
</div>
<div class="impact">
The Texans elected to take things easy with Johnson
today after he ran four of the past five days. He is expected to work
out on Thursday, but will not practice. Unless his hamstring huge
progress in the next two days, it's hard to see the Texans activating
Johnson against the Bucs. His most likely return date remains Week 12.
</div>

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 02:50 PM
Also, You, Daven and Dezz make it sound like this happened a year or 2 ago. This happened in the 90's. Before the days of lawsuits and defamation and all that.

http://alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/jpg/misc-seriously.jpg

Seriously? you think defamation lawsuits didn't exist before the 90's? Cmon Lando.




All he would have had to do is say something and everyone would have been all over him. If the kid says something they might look at him like a moron and nothing happens. He showed alot of guts to go to Joe.

No he showed a LACK of guts going to Joe, what he should have ****ing done is that this guy by the back of his neck and put his head through a god damn urinal short of that he should have called 911 while looking at the guy in the ****ing face or holding the door to the god damn locker room closed and made ****ing sure he was caught....that would have been showing a lot of guts.




Life now is not like it was when this happened and came to light. The kids are heroes for coming forward. I hope Penn St gets a death sentence for this. It's a ****ing embarrassment to America.

I certainly hope everyone in here would speak up god forbid something happened to someone you know. Whether it was someone you never met in your life or your best friend. It's a sick world...

The point isn't whether you would speak up god forbid something happen, I think EVERYONE would....the point is did Paterno actually believe something happened at all? he was told a story by someone by all rights he probably barely knew...he knew the perpetrator better then the person who told him the story...and yet he STILL went to the AD "just incase"

Paterno at first did the right thing, not following up on it was wrong morally (not at all legally)

The Coach who witnessed it...he is a god damn disgrace.

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 02:50 PM
<div class="report">


Darren McFadden (foot) did not participate in the Raiders' Wednesday walkthrough.</p>
</div>
<div class="impact">
Barring a miracle, McFadden will miss his
second straight game Thursday. Michael Bush will carry the load against
the Chargers, though rookie Taiwan Jones could get 4-to-5 touches in a
change-of-pace role. McFadden will be 28 days removed from his injury
when the Raiders take on the Vikings in Week 11, and should most likely
be ready to return. Just remember that nothing is ever a given when it
comes to DMC and injuries.
</div>

Morehead State
11-09-2011, 02:52 PM
Because Joe Paterno is the most important person at Penn State. Anyone there knows that. If he went straight to Joe Paterno himself, he showed a lot of guts.</P>


And this happened many years ago as I understand. Joe Pa was much younger. I don't think you understand the significance of Joe Paterno at PSU. You make it sound like he's in some kind of middle management. "Reporting to higher ups" THERE IS NO FRIGGIN HIGHER UP THAN JOE PA.</P>


How is it you don't get this.</P>




When you see a Pedophile sodomize a child in front of your eyes "reporting it to higher ups" simply is NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

You need to stop it then and there yourself baring that..say you panic like wuss and fail to save the child right then and there....you go to the COPS if he wants to stop by and let Paterno know thats up to him...but you go to the ****ing police you don't tell the Head Coach.

This has NOTHING to do with Penn State University this has to do with a Pedo raping a child...a criminal offense.

I will not put the same responsibility on Paterno hearing the story as I do the Coach who WITNESSED the act.
</P>


No one cares about some janitor that no one ever heard of. For all we know he was afraid to get fired. Or he though reporting to Joe Pa was the best thing to do because he's Joe Pa. No one knows. They guy was old at the time and has dementia now.</P>


But we do know about Joe Paterno. We know he had it reported to him and all he did was inform his AD. He never asked if it went to the cops...nothing. He was told that the one time D coordinator and personal friend,who had his charity based at PSU, was molesting young boys and he passed it on like forwarding an email.</P>


We all know why thats all he did. We know he was afraid it would harm the program and he was willing to riskmore harm to morekids with the hope that it would die down.</P>


I always loved Joe Paterno but thats horrible behavior and beneath the image he has always maintained.</P>


The "he passed it on to higher ups" excuse won't wash.</P>

lttaylor56
11-09-2011, 02:53 PM
I can't believe that no one commented on Mooreheads helicopter pilot from San Fran, Cali

http://www.allmotivated.com/pictures/Demotivational-pictures-nothanks.jpg

dezzzR
11-09-2011, 02:55 PM
i dont know, i just think its bs how people can put just as much blame on a witness as the perp. wr coach went to someone he thought could do something about it. thats it. doesnt make him just as guilty because he didnt dial 911.

dezzzR
11-09-2011, 02:55 PM
I can't believe that no one commented on Mooreheads helicopter pilot from San Fran, Cali

http://www.allmotivated.com/pictures/Demotivational-pictures-nothanks.jpgi hope that yellow thing is another joy stick

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 02:57 PM
and lando i thin kur bat **** crazy for not taking issue from the source of all of this (besides sandusky obviously) and thats the WR coach WHO SAW THIS HAPPEN and didn't go to stop it and who thought it would be a better idea to go to somebody that could actually do NOTHING as oppose to going to the police.

He probably thought Joe would do something and use his name to back him up. I can't speak for the guy. If he would have not said anything to anyone and kept it to himself that is sick and wrong as well. The fact that he told someone, anyone makes the person who heard it just as guilty as him for not contacting the cops in my eyes. I don't fault that kid for not contacting the police anymore than I do Joe. Whether you saw it or heard about it the cops need to know. I do take issue with the kid for not calling the cops. But he probably thought no one would believe him and it would be a great big coverup. That is why I think he went to Joe and he thought he could be trusted to use his "power" and get the right thing done.

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 02:57 PM
No one cares about some janitor that no one ever heard of. For all we know he was afraid to get fired. Or he though reporting to Joe Pa was the best thing to do because he's Joe Pa. No one knows. They guy was old at the time and has dementia now.</p>

Excuses, you see sodomy of a child in front of you, worrying about your job is not something that should enter the equation, and maybe your right maybe he was worried noone would believe him, so go to Joe Pa, that's fine...get him to help you out, but ****ing make a report to the cops as well...don't just drop it in someone else's hands....he WITNESSED it.
</p>


</p>



But we do know about Joe Paterno. We know he had it reported to him and all he did was inform his AD. He never asked if it went to the cops...nothing. He was told that the one time D coordinator and personal friend,who had his charity based at PSU, was molesting young boys and he passed it on like forwarding an email.</p>

What we don't know is whether he ever even believed the Janitor in the first place, he may have been reporting it as a "just incase" but never thought there was a chance in hell that there was any truth to it, it's the guy who actually SAW it happens responsibility not some guy he told the story too...even if that guy is Joe Pa.
</p>


</p>



We all know why thats all he did.</p>

No Morehead...we don't...you know better then that.
</p>


</p>


</p>

Morehead State
11-09-2011, 03:01 PM
No one cares about some janitor that no one ever heard of. For all we know he was afraid to get fired. Or he though reporting to Joe Pa was the best thing to do because he's Joe Pa. No one knows. They guy was old at the time and has dementia now.</P>


Excuses, you see sodomy of a child in front of you, worrying about your job is not something that should enter the equation, and maybe your right maybe he was worried noone would believe him, so go to Joe Pa, that's fine...get him to help you out, but ****ing make a report to the cops as well...don't just drop it in someone else's hands....he WITNESSED it.
</P>



</P>



But we do know about Joe Paterno. We know he had it reported to him and all he did was inform his AD. He never asked if it went to the cops...nothing. He was told that the one time D coordinator and personal friend,who had his charity based at PSU, was molesting young boys and he passed it on like forwarding an email.</P>


What we don't know is whether he ever even believed the Janitor in the first place, he may have been reporting it as a "just incase" but never thought there was a chance in hell that there was any truth to it, it's the guy who actually SAW it happens responsibility not some guy he told the story too...even if that guy is Joe Pa.
</P>



</P>



We all know why thats all he did.</P>


No Morehead...we don't...you know better then that.
</P>



</P>



</P>


</P>


Joe Pa failed in his obligations to himself, his school and his community. "I didn't believe him" doesn't wash either.</P>


He has a damn obligation to do something more than pass it on to the AD. He's friggin Joe Paterno.</P>

lttaylor56
11-09-2011, 03:01 PM
I can't believe that no one commented on Mooreheads helicopter pilot from San Fran, Cali

http://www.allmotivated.com/pictures/Demotivational-pictures-nothanks.jpgi hope that yellow thing is another joy stick
lmao-that is going to be my new avatar. I'll bet he is a very accomplished pilot-People should not be judge based on their appearance. lol

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 03:02 PM
Joe Paterno is the highest "higher up" there is at Penn State.
This is what you don't understand Matt.

It's like Coach K at Duke. They run the mother****er. There is no one higher.


your a ****in fool if u think that.

I bet u said the same thing about Jim TRessell

Did you watch Matt Millen on SportsCenter when he broke down?

He went to Penn St, is a board member on Sandusky's charity and knows almost everyone at the school. He himself said there is no one higher at Penn St than Joe Pa except maybe the President of Penn St and that is debatable. Is that a credible enough source for you?

Jim Tressel is no Joe Pa Matt. You know better than that. There is no one more associated to a franchise in College Football more than Joe Pa. Would you agree? I was listening to talk radio today and they thought he more recognizable than Lombardi to the Packers.

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 03:03 PM
The fact that he told someone, anyone makes the person who heard it just as guilty as him for not contacting the cops in my eyes.

Well then you need Glasses, because Legally and Morally you are just wrong in my opinion by saying that.

Hearing a story about something....versus actually witnessing it are completely and separate things.

I've heard tons of stories not all of them were true and unless I truly believe them I'm not gonna act upon them....but I act upon **** I SEE go down with my own eyes.

Morehead State
11-09-2011, 03:05 PM
Joe Paterno is the highest "higher up" there is at Penn State.
This is what you don't understand Matt.

It's like Coach K at Duke. They run the mother****er. There is no one higher.


your a ****in fool if u think that.

I bet u said the same thing about Jim TRessell

Did you watch Matt Millen on SportsCenter when he broke down?

He went to Penn St, is a board member on Sandusky's charity and knows almost everyone at the school. He himself said there is no one higher at Penn St than Joe Pa except maybe the President of Penn St and that is debatable. Is that a credible enough source for you?

Jim Tressel is no Joe Pa Matt. You know better than that. There is no one more associated to a franchise in College Football more than Joe Pa. Would you agree? I was listening to talk radio today and they thought he more recognizable than Lombardi to the Packers.
</P>


Its reasonable toconclude that Joe Paterno was far more interested in protecting his program than protecting future victims.</P>

JPizzack
11-09-2011, 03:08 PM
Joe Paterno is the highest "higher up" there is at Penn State.
This is what you don't understand Matt.

It's like Coach K at Duke. They run the mother****er. There is no one higher.


your a ****in fool if u think that.

I bet u said the same thing about Jim TRessell

Did you watch Matt Millen on SportsCenter when he broke down?

</P>


i did, and it was heartbreaking to see it tear that poor guy apart.

BUT, he DID get very angry about how it was handled.</P>

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 03:08 PM
Joe Pa failed in his obligations to himself, his school and his community. "I didn't believe him" doesn't wash either.</p>


He has a damn obligation to do something more than pass it on to the AD. He's friggin Joe Paterno.</p>

I don't necessarily disagree with that, he should have done more....but his failure pales in comparison to the failure of those who actually witnessed the events take place....they are not even remotely on the same level.

ny06
11-09-2011, 03:11 PM
Joe Paterno is the highest "higher up" there is at Penn State.
This is what you don't understand Matt.

It's like Coach K at Duke. They run the mother****er. There is no one higher.


your a ****in fool if u think that.

I bet u said the same thing about Jim TRessell

Did you watch Matt Millen on SportsCenter when he broke down?

He went to Penn St, is a board member on Sandusky's charity and knows almost everyone at the school. He himself said there is no one higher at Penn St than Joe Pa except maybe the President of Penn St and that is debatable. Is that a credible enough source for you?

Jim Tressel is no Joe Pa Matt. You know better than that. <FONT color=#0000ff>There is no one more associated to a franchise in College Football more than Joe Pa. Would you agree?</FONT> I was listening to talk radio today and they thought he more recognizable than Lombardi to the Packers.
</P>


Eddie Robinson may disagree. </P>


But I do see your point. </P>

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 03:14 PM
Its reasonable toconclude that Joe Paterno was far more interested in protecting his program than protecting future victims.

It's a reasonable or logical thought, that doesn't make it correct...

I'm not saying Paterno doesn't deserve his fair share of criticism on this, but we don't know how or what he was told, we knew he was told something but if some tweaker came up to me in a dark alley somewhere and told me my brother had killed someone I wouldn't believe him...

what we DO know is someone witnessed the rape of a small child and didn't do everything in his power to stop the rape and or to make sure the person was brought to justice....and that's a terrible terrible thing.

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 03:17 PM
Joe Paterno is the highest "higher up" there is at Penn State.
This is what you don't understand Matt.

It's like Coach K at Duke. They run the mother****er. There is no one higher.


your a ****in fool if u think that.

I bet u said the same thing about Jim TRessell

Did you watch Matt Millen on SportsCenter when he broke down?

He went to Penn St, is a board member on Sandusky's charity and knows almost everyone at the school. He himself said there is no one higher at Penn St than Joe Pa except maybe the President of Penn St and that is debatable. Is that a credible enough source for you?

Jim Tressel is no Joe Pa Matt. You know better than that. There is no one more associated to a franchise in College Football more than Joe Pa. Would you agree? I was listening to talk radio today and they thought he more recognizable than Lombardi to the Packers.
</p>


Its reasonable toconclude that Joe Paterno was far more interested in protecting his program than protecting future victims.</p>
Of course, the football program would have been demolished. 100's of lost scholarships and millions of dollars lost. He turned his back and so did everyone else for the same reason.

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 03:19 PM
The fact that he told someone, anyone makes the person who heard it just as guilty as him for not contacting the cops in my eyes.

Well then you need Glasses, because Legally and Morally you are just wrong in my opinion by saying that.

Hearing a story about something....versus actually witnessing it are completely and separate things.

I've heard tons of stories not all of them were true and unless I truly believe them I'm not gonna act upon them....but I act upon **** I SEE go down with my own eyes.


Legally yes. Morally no.

Hearing it and seeing it are 2 different things. But right and wrong isn't.

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 03:21 PM
Joe Paterno is the highest "higher up" there is at Penn State.
This is what you don't understand Matt.

It's like Coach K at Duke. They run the mother****er. There is no one higher.


your a ****in fool if u think that.

I bet u said the same thing about Jim TRessell

Did you watch Matt Millen on SportsCenter when he broke down?

</p>


i did, and it was heartbreaking to see it tear that poor guy apart.

BUT, he DID get very angry about how it was handled.</p>
I watched all 11 minutes and yea it was pretty sad. He was so angry and hurt.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 03:21 PM
WHO THE **** CARES WHO THE MAN IS AT PEN NSTATE?!

Honestly, what the **** does that have to do with anything

This guy just saw a little kid get raped and your talking to me about the heirarchy and politics of a college, what the **** is wrong with you. What does that have to do with this guy not going to the police or stopping the rape when he saw it?
</p>


yupppp and thats exactly why i said ALL the people were in the wrong here. NOBODY did ANYTHING.</p>




i disagree...

JP wasn't a witness. He was approached as an employee by an employee and followed the chain of command. Once nothing was done is where he dropped the ball. It wasn't Paterno;s place to call the police, he didn't witness the crime and has no clue if theres any validity to the charges. NOW we know its true, but at the time he probably didn't
</p>


honestly matt...i dont care...
If one co-worker came up to me for some reason and told me that they witnessed another co-worker molesting a child. if that person didn't call the police right there....youre ****ing right I would make that phone call. i have more allegiance to helplesschildren than I do my coworkers.
I dont care about the feelings of someone I'm accusing....let the authorities sort it out. A college is not the authorities. If someone is innocent, great...they can prove it.
IT IS NOT ANY PERSON'S PLACE TO MAKE A JUDGMENT CALL ON WHETHER OR NOT THE CRIME WAS COMMITED OTHER THAN POLICE, DETECTIVES, etc., LAWYERS, JUDGES AND JURY.....that's it. plain and simple. the school has absolutely NO busines in this situation.</p>

well that would be pretty wreckless of you to just fully accept what a person tells you like that. Either way future reference you should make THEM make the call.

ANd honestly if u really didn't believe them and still did that u would be borderline insane. And If your coworker came up and said one of your boys raped a kid and u wouldn't of thought that to be true of your boy - im sorry i really doubt u'd be so quick to clal the cops

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 03:25 PM
Quite honestly....Paterno should have used his name power to do the right thing...

Youre an AD...you gonna fire Joe Paterno? THE HELLYOUARE! lol......
Nobody would fire Paterno for bringing this to light, hence why I feel it WASN'T handled right.</p>


ok, I think I'm out of ways to continue discussing this. I played all my cards =P</p>You do have a good point there.


its really not

What if it was wrong and PAterno didn't go through the proper channels. He did bring it to light, to the AD which is what he was supose to do.

And don't kid yourselves, there have been talks of Paterno for the past ten yearsbeing asked to leave. Hes a mascot. Theres so many whispers tha the does nothing. He may even be asked to leave before the season ends and he DID follow protocol

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 03:25 PM
Legally yes. Morally no.

Hearing it and seeing it are 2 different things. But right and wrong isn't.


Morally yes, if you are willing to ruin a goods friends life over some crazy story told to you by some crackhead you found in the gutter then morally yes..you are wrong.

and to me that's what you are saying.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 03:26 PM
i dont know, i just think its bs how people can put just as much blame on a witness as the perp. wr coach went to someone he thought could do something about it. thats it. doesnt make him just as guilty because he didnt dial 911.


i can't believe that u think the guy that witnessed the rape and made no attempt to stop it "tried to do something about it" by going to Joe PAterno instead of the police and telling them what he saw

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 03:28 PM
Penn St. head football coach Joe Paterno
just announced that he will retire at the end of the current football
season ... calling the child molestation scandal, "one of the great
sorrows of my life" and saying, "I wish I had done more."

Paterno
released a statement saying, "I am absolutely devastated by the
developments in this case. I grieve for the children and their families,
and I pray for their comfort and relief."

He added, "I have
decided to announce my retirement effective at the end of this season.
At this moment the Board of Trustees should not spend a single minute
discussing my status. They have far more important matters to address. I
want to make this as easy for them as I possibly can."

"This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more."

"My
goals now are to keep my commitments to my players and staff and finish
the season with dignity and determination. And then I will spend the
rest of my life doing everything I can to help this University."

Officials say Paterno had knowledge that former Penn State assistant coach Jerry Sandusky had allegedly sexually abused a pre-teen boy in the showers in the Penn State locker room back in 2002.



Paterno reported the incident to the athletic director at Penn State -- but failed to notify the police.

The
police commissioner says Paterno has not been accused of legal
wrongdoing, but claims Paterno did NOT fulfill his "moral
responsibility."

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 03:30 PM
and lando i thin kur bat **** crazy for not taking issue from the source of all of this (besides sandusky obviously) and thats the WR coach WHO SAW THIS HAPPEN and didn't go to stop it and who thought it would be a better idea to go to somebody that could actually do NOTHING as oppose to going to the police.

He probably thought Joe would do something and use his name to back him up. I can't speak for the guy. If he would have not said anything to anyone and kept it to himself that is sick and wrong as well. The fact that he told someone, anyone makes the person who heard it just as guilty as him for not contacting the cops in my eyes. I don't fault that kid for not contacting the police anymore than I do Joe. Whether you saw it or heard about it the cops need to know. I do take issue with the kid for not calling the cops. But he probably thought no one would believe him and it would be a great big coverup. That is why I think he went to Joe and he thought he could be trusted to use his "power" and get the right thing done.


okay thats fine - to back his name up...

doesn't he have to come out and tell somebody besides JP then for that theory to be right?

Wow you really need to wrap your head around the truths of this. You shouldn't take issue with the victim for not calling the cops because they are too young to really understand and process what happened. MOST rape victims actually don't even notify anybody of their rape, especially children.

Why do u not take issue with the witness who did nothing to stop it? I've yet to hear u speak on that.

WHat ****in power do u need to say u saw somebody rape someone? IU mean was Joe Pa going to hav eSandusky beat up? Was he going tpo have him thrown in jail with no judge or jury? I mean whats the POWER of JP that was going to fix this? You hguys are just going for the biggest name in this thing and having generic arguments

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 03:31 PM
TBH honest Lando you are scaring me a little, what if I told you some story in jest one day...one you just go run to the cops with it?

What if one of my Ex-Gf's had a vendetta against me and told you a completely untrue story about me...would you go running to the cops?

you seem a little bit insane here....you just believe everything everyone says to you immediately and are willing to ruin lives over it just because "it's the right thing to do" it's not that simple.

If you believe it...YES do it go to the cops, but remember it's just a story you are hearing.

if you SEE it...it's TOTALLY different...if you don't then follow through by reporting it then you are just a terrible person.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 03:31 PM
No one cares about some janitor that no one ever heard of. For all we know he was afraid to get fired. Or he though reporting to Joe Pa was the best thing to do because he's Joe Pa. No one knows. They guy was old at the time and has dementia now.</p>


Excuses, you see sodomy of a child in front of you, worrying about your job is not something that should enter the equation, and maybe your right maybe he was worried noone would believe him, so go to Joe Pa, that's fine...get him to help you out, but ****ing make a report to the cops as well...don't just drop it in someone else's hands....he WITNESSED it.
</p>



</p>



But we do know about Joe Paterno. We know he had it reported to him and all he did was inform his AD. He never asked if it went to the cops...nothing. He was told that the one time D coordinator and personal friend,who had his charity based at PSU, was molesting young boys and he passed it on like forwarding an email.</p>


What we don't know is whether he ever even believed the Janitor in the first place, he may have been reporting it as a "just incase" but never thought there was a chance in hell that there was any truth to it, it's the guy who actually SAW it happens responsibility not some guy he told the story too...even if that guy is Joe Pa.
</p>



</p>



We all know why thats all he did.</p>


No Morehead...we don't...you know better then that.
</p>



</p>



</p>


</p>


Joe Pa failed in his obligations to himself, his school and his community. "I didn't believe him" doesn't wash either.</p>


He has a damn obligation to do something more than pass it on to the AD. He's friggin Joe Paterno.</p>

ultimately he did, but not at first...

again - had the AD done its job, would u be hurry looking to hang JP? No you wouldn't

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 03:34 PM
Joe Paterno is the highest "higher up" there is at Penn State.
This is what you don't understand Matt.

It's like Coach K at Duke. They run the mother****er. There is no one higher.


your a ****in fool if u think that.

I bet u said the same thing about Jim TRessell

Did you watch Matt Millen on SportsCenter when he broke down?

He went to Penn St, is a board member on Sandusky's charity and knows almost everyone at the school. He himself said there is no one higher at Penn St than Joe Pa except maybe the President of Penn St and that is debatable. Is that a credible enough source for you?

Jim Tressel is no Joe Pa Matt. You know better than that. There is no one more associated to a franchise in College Football more than Joe Pa. Would you agree? I was listening to talk radio today and they thought he more recognizable than Lombardi to the Packers.


Jim Tressel was absolutely as recognizable as Joe Pa and did it in about half the time.

Okay,and if something happened (like it did) there are those there more powerful than him that can remove him from his HC spot, could they not?

So obviously hes not invincable.

It doesn't ****in matter though, Joe Pa doesn't have anymore power than you and I would in this situation. His power of Penn STate has nothing to do with any of this. It also is meaningless because he still reports to others

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 03:35 PM
Joe Paterno is the highest "higher up" there is at Penn State.
This is what you don't understand Matt.

It's like Coach K at Duke. They run the mother****er. There is no one higher.


your a ****in fool if u think that.

I bet u said the same thing about Jim TRessell

Did you watch Matt Millen on SportsCenter when he broke down?

He went to Penn St, is a board member on Sandusky's charity and knows almost everyone at the school. He himself said there is no one higher at Penn St than Joe Pa except maybe the President of Penn St and that is debatable. Is that a credible enough source for you?

Jim Tressel is no Joe Pa Matt. You know better than that. There is no one more associated to a franchise in College Football more than Joe Pa. Would you agree? I was listening to talk radio today and they thought he more recognizable than Lombardi to the Packers.
</p>


Its reasonable toconclude that Joe Paterno was far more interested in protecting his program than protecting future victims.</p>

if that was completely true, then why even pass it on to the AD?

Why wouldn't you just keep this wrapped up?

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 03:36 PM
Joe Pa failed in his obligations to himself, his school and his community. "I didn't believe him" doesn't wash either.</p>


He has a damn obligation to do something more than pass it on to the AD. He's friggin Joe Paterno.</p>

I don't necessarily disagree with that, he should have done more....but his failure pales in comparison to the failure of those who actually witnessed the events take place....they are not even remotely on the same level.


absolutely

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 03:38 PM
The fact that he told someone, anyone makes the person who heard it just as guilty as him for not contacting the cops in my eyes.

Well then you need Glasses, because Legally and Morally you are just wrong in my opinion by saying that.

Hearing a story about something....versus actually witnessing it are completely and separate things.

I've heard tons of stories not all of them were true and unless I truly believe them I'm not gonna act upon them....but I act upon **** I SEE go down with my own eyes.


Legally yes. Morally no.

Hearing it and seeing it are 2 different things. But right and wrong isn't.


morally just as wrong because you don't know the truth because theres no evidence and its somenbodys word vs somebody elses word

now that we know its true for the most part you can say that. At the time you couldn't and so thats why your wrong. Your hindsight is perfect

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 03:39 PM
Penn St. head football coach Joe Paterno
just announced that he will retire at the end of the current football
season ... calling the child molestation scandal, "one of the great
sorrows of my life" and saying, "I wish I had done more."

Paterno
released a statement saying, "I am absolutely devastated by the
developments in this case. I grieve for the children and their families,
and I pray for their comfort and relief."

He added, "I have
decided to announce my retirement effective at the end of this season.
At this moment the Board of Trustees should not spend a single minute
discussing my status. They have far more important matters to address. I
want to make this as easy for them as I possibly can."

"This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more."

"My
goals now are to keep my commitments to my players and staff and finish
the season with dignity and determination. And then I will spend the
rest of my life doing everything I can to help this University."

Officials say Paterno had knowledge that former Penn State assistant coach Jerry Sandusky had allegedly sexually abused a pre-teen boy in the showers in the Penn State locker room back in 2002.



Paterno reported the incident to the athletic director at Penn State -- but failed to notify the police.

The
police commissioner says Paterno has not been accused of legal
wrongdoing, but claims Paterno did NOT fulfill his "moral
responsibility."

i know u think this helps ur point and hurts ours, but thats also because like i've said 12 times u haven't grasped what we are saying.

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 03:41 PM
The fact that he told someone, anyone makes the person who heard it just as guilty as him for not contacting the cops in my eyes.

Well then you need Glasses, because Legally and Morally you are just wrong in my opinion by saying that.

Hearing a story about something....versus actually witnessing it are completely and separate things.

I've heard tons of stories not all of them were true and unless I truly believe them I'm not gonna act upon them....but I act upon **** I SEE go down with my own eyes.


Legally yes. Morally no.

Hearing it and seeing it are 2 different things. But right and wrong isn't.


morally just as wrong because you don't know the truth because theres no evidence and its somenbodys word vs somebody elses word

now that we know its true for the most part you can say that. At the time you couldn't and so thats why your wrong. Your hindsight is perfect


The worst part about what Lando is saying, and what scares me a little....is he's willing to take ANYONE word on anything, and is willing to literally ruin a good friends life...without even talking to him about it first...it's not even like he's taking the word of some random person over his good friends word...which would be bad enough...what Lando seems to be saying is that he won't even listen to his friend in the first place.

Some random person tells Lando that you did something horrible Matt, he's not even going to ask you if you did, he's just going to go straight to the cops and bang your life is over (even if your proven innocent your life is over)

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 03:43 PM
i hate the fact that because JP is the most popular person at Penn State people think he has his hand in legal, financial, and every other aspect of the place. Its actually scary to hear that from you guys

Morehead State
11-09-2011, 03:44 PM
The fact that he told someone, anyone makes the person who heard it just as guilty as him for not contacting the cops in my eyes.

Well then you need Glasses, because Legally and Morally you are just wrong in my opinion by saying that.

Hearing a story about something....versus actually witnessing it are completely and separate things.

I've heard tons of stories not all of them were true and unless I truly believe them I'm not gonna act upon them....but I act upon **** I SEE go down with my own eyes.


Legally yes. Morally no.

Hearing it and seeing it are 2 different things. But right and wrong isn't.


morally just as wrong because you don't know the truth because theres no evidence and its somenbodys word vs somebody elses word

now that we know its true for the most part you can say that. At the time you couldn't and so thats why your wrong. Your hindsight is perfect


The worst part about what Lando is saying, and what scares me a little....is he's willing to take ANYONE word on anything, and is willing to literally ruin a good friends life...without even talking to him about it first...it's not even like he's taking the word of some random person over his good friends word...which would be bad enough...what Lando seems to be saying is that he won't even listen to his friend in the first place.

Some random person tells Lando that you did something horrible Matt, he's not even going to ask you if you did, he's just going to go straight to the cops and bang your life is over (even if your proven innocent your life is over)
</P>


I'd believe it in a heartbeat.</P>

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 03:46 PM
and lando i thin kur bat **** crazy for not taking issue from the source of all of this (besides sandusky obviously) and thats the WR coach WHO SAW THIS HAPPEN and didn't go to stop it and who thought it would be a better idea to go to somebody that could actually do NOTHING as oppose to going to the police.

He probably thought Joe would do something and use his name to back him up. I can't speak for the guy. If he would have not said anything to anyone and kept it to himself that is sick and wrong as well. The fact that he told someone, anyone makes the person who heard it just as guilty as him for not contacting the cops in my eyes. I don't fault that kid for not contacting the police anymore than I do Joe. Whether you saw it or heard about it the cops need to know. I do take issue with the kid for not calling the cops. But he probably thought no one would believe him and it would be a great big coverup. That is why I think he went to Joe and he thought he could be trusted to use his "power" and get the right thing done.


okay thats fine - to back his name up...

doesn't he have to come out and tell somebody besides JP then for that theory to be right?

Wow you really need to wrap your head around the truths of this. You shouldn't take issue with the victim for not calling the cops because they are too young to really understand and process what happened. MOST rape victims actually don't even notify anybody of their rape, especially children.

Why do u not take issue with the witness who did nothing to stop it? I've yet to hear u speak on that.

WHat ****in power do u need to say u saw somebody rape someone? IU mean was Joe Pa going to hav eSandusky beat up? Was he going tpo have him thrown in jail with no judge or jury? I mean whats the POWER of JP that was going to fix this? You hguys are just going for the biggest name in this thing and having generic arguments



I do take issue with that Matt. I already said that. Let's say he calls the cops. They come and Sandusky says the kid has mental issues and can't be trusted. Ruins the guys rep and fires him. Then he just keeps on doing what he does and abusing these kids and that guy is gone.

Then lets say the guy goes to Joe Pa because he could use his name and then back up the person who saw it happen. They go to the cops together or with the AD and press charges on the guy and get an investigation going to stop all the abuse.

Or everyone could just turn there back and do nothing. I am glad the whole thing is crashing. I don't think Joe Pa should even coach another game. He is a ****ing embarrassment. Everyone should already be fired. It's not like he is innocent until proven guilty. There are 8 kids with more coming forward.

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 03:48 PM
i hate the fact that because JP is the most popular person at Penn State people think he has his hand in legal, financial, and every other aspect of the place. Its actually scary to hear that from you guys


I disagree with this, I do believe that is the case, that is (from what I hear) how it works.

whats scary to hear from these guys is that they don't put any faith in their good friends...that they are willing to believe some crackpot story and just ruin their friends lives on a whim, that they blame someone in a position of power...purely because he's in a position of power and don't look at the circumstance...the fact that the person in power probably hears stories just like the one told to him by this (Janitor/Coach) everyday...and only a small percentage of them end up being true...and yet this person...is at fault more so then the person who was an eye witness to the event and did the bare minimum (less then that in my opinion) to make sure the criminal he SAW commit the heinous crime get what get deserve.

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 03:50 PM
I'd believe it in a heartbeat.

Yestarday I would have laughed and thought you were being sarcastic...today...I'm not so sure.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 03:50 PM
The fact that he told someone, anyone makes the person who heard it just as guilty as him for not contacting the cops in my eyes.

Well then you need Glasses, because Legally and Morally you are just wrong in my opinion by saying that.

Hearing a story about something....versus actually witnessing it are completely and separate things.

I've heard tons of stories not all of them were true and unless I truly believe them I'm not gonna act upon them....but I act upon **** I SEE go down with my own eyes.


Legally yes. Morally no.

Hearing it and seeing it are 2 different things. But right and wrong isn't.


morally just as wrong because you don't know the truth because theres no evidence and its somenbodys word vs somebody elses word

now that we know its true for the most part you can say that. At the time you couldn't and so thats why your wrong. Your hindsight is perfect


The worst part about what Lando is saying, and what scares me a little....is he's willing to take ANYONE word on anything, and is willing to literally ruin a good friends life...without even talking to him about it first...it's not even like he's taking the word of some random person over his good friends word...which would be bad enough...what Lando seems to be saying is that he won't even listen to his friend in the first place.

Some random person tells Lando that you did something horrible Matt, he's not even going to ask you if you did, he's just going to go straight to the cops and bang your life is over (even if your proven innocent your life is over)


I agree. Lando is being emotional and using his hindsight. I have to be honest if he was Joe Pa, I would HIGHLY doubt he would of called the cops at that moment

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 03:52 PM
TBH honest Lando you are scaring me a little, what if I told you some story in jest one day...one you just go run to the cops with it?

What if one of my Ex-Gf's had a vendetta against me and told you a completely untrue story about me...would you go running to the cops?

you seem a little bit insane here....you just believe everything everyone says to you immediately and are willing to ruin lives over it just because "it's the right thing to do" it's not that simple.

If you believe it...YES do it go to the cops, but remember it's just a story you are hearing.

if you SEE it...it's TOTALLY different...if you don't then follow through by reporting it then you are just a terrible person.

You are going a little overboard here Daven.

You know I'm a sensible person. Joe Pa took it sincere enough to pass it on to the AD. That tells you everything you need to know. He was concerned enough to pass it on, just not do what needed to be done because he knew it would ruin the program.

THEN - Still lets the guy have access to everything in the University and not question him or wonder what he is doing when he takes the kids down there. Think to himself that he is doing it again and he is still turning his back to it. Not only did anyone not say anything, they let it continue.

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 03:54 PM
Penn St. head football coach Joe Paterno
just announced that he will retire at the end of the current football
season ... calling the child molestation scandal, "one of the great
sorrows of my life" and saying, "I wish I had done more."

Paterno
released a statement saying, "I am absolutely devastated by the
developments in this case. I grieve for the children and their families,
and I pray for their comfort and relief."

He added, "I have
decided to announce my retirement effective at the end of this season.
At this moment the Board of Trustees should not spend a single minute
discussing my status. They have far more important matters to address. I
want to make this as easy for them as I possibly can."

"This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more."

"My
goals now are to keep my commitments to my players and staff and finish
the season with dignity and determination. And then I will spend the
rest of my life doing everything I can to help this University."

Officials say Paterno had knowledge that former Penn State assistant coach Jerry Sandusky had allegedly sexually abused a pre-teen boy in the showers in the Penn State locker room back in 2002.



Paterno reported the incident to the athletic director at Penn State -- but failed to notify the police.

The
police commissioner says Paterno has not been accused of legal
wrongdoing, but claims Paterno did NOT fulfill his "moral
responsibility."

i know u think this helps ur point and hurts ours, but thats also because like i've said 12 times u haven't grasped what we are saying.



You don't grasp what I am saying Matt. I do understand what you are saying and have said that.

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 03:54 PM
Then lets say the guy goes to Joe Pa because he could use his name and then back up the person who saw it happen. They go to the cops together or with the AD and press charges on the guy and get an investigation going to stop all the abuse.

Me and Matt BOTH think that is what he should have done already (well beyond putting the guys head thru the urinal himself on the spot) the point is whether Joe PA comes with him to the cops or not...he still has a moral responsibility to go there himself...**** his reputation and his job...he saw a young boy get raped he needs to make a report...whether or not he goes to Joe Pa is irrelevant morally.

Could going to Joe Pa. help the case...sure..and he should do so, but that's thinking to far into it, first comes first...you HAVE to take it to the end you have to make sure you do everything you can as a witness to get this guy convicted.....**** your job and your rep that doesn't matter.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 03:55 PM
and lando i thin kur bat **** crazy for not taking issue from the source of all of this (besides sandusky obviously) and thats the WR coach WHO SAW THIS HAPPEN and didn't go to stop it and who thought it would be a better idea to go to somebody that could actually do NOTHING as oppose to going to the police.

He probably thought Joe would do something and use his name to back him up. I can't speak for the guy. If he would have not said anything to anyone and kept it to himself that is sick and wrong as well. The fact that he told someone, anyone makes the person who heard it just as guilty as him for not contacting the cops in my eyes. I don't fault that kid for not contacting the police anymore than I do Joe. Whether you saw it or heard about it the cops need to know. I do take issue with the kid for not calling the cops. But he probably thought no one would believe him and it would be a great big coverup. That is why I think he went to Joe and he thought he could be trusted to use his "power" and get the right thing done.


okay thats fine - to back his name up...

doesn't he have to come out and tell somebody besides JP then for that theory to be right?

Wow you really need to wrap your head around the truths of this. You shouldn't take issue with the victim for not calling the cops because they are too young to really understand and process what happened. MOST rape victims actually don't even notify anybody of their rape, especially children.

Why do u not take issue with the witness who did nothing to stop it? I've yet to hear u speak on that.

WHat ****in power do u need to say u saw somebody rape someone? IU mean was Joe Pa going to hav eSandusky beat up? Was he going tpo have him thrown in jail with no judge or jury? I mean whats the POWER of JP that was going to fix this? You hguys are just going for the biggest name in this thing and having generic arguments



I do take issue with that Matt. I already said that. Let's say he calls the cops. They come and Sandusky says the kid has mental issues and can't be trusted. Ruins the guys rep and fires him. Then he just keeps on doing what he does and abusing these kids and that guy is gone.

Then lets say the guy goes to Joe Pa because he could use his name and then back up the person who saw it happen. They go to the cops together or with the AD and press charges on the guy and get an investigation going to stop all the abuse.

Or everyone could just turn there back and do nothing. I am glad the whole thing is crashing. I don't think Joe Pa should even coach another game. He is a ****ing embarrassment. Everyone should already be fired. It's not like he is innocent until proven guilty. There are 8 kids with more coming forward.


First off, Joe Pa hasn't been coaching for almost 10 years now. Hes been the Mascot of Penn State

Secondly you whole scenerio makes ZERO sense and you haven't addressed the fact that this guy did nothing to stop the rape.

So now lets see what would of happened in the moment had this guy gone and stopped the rape and then called the police. So now you have somebody who physically had to stop it and saw it go down, you have the victim, and the victim would still have evidence for a rape kit.

So now all of a sudden with all of that on there, Joe Pa wouldn't oif backed this guy up? That makes no sense.

Regardless out of all your disgust and emotion you have yet to ONCE address this guy and going to stop the rape to continue any longer.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 03:58 PM
TBH honest Lando you are scaring me a little, what if I told you some story in jest one day...one you just go run to the cops with it?

What if one of my Ex-Gf's had a vendetta against me and told you a completely untrue story about me...would you go running to the cops?

you seem a little bit insane here....you just believe everything everyone says to you immediately and are willing to ruin lives over it just because "it's the right thing to do" it's not that simple.

If you believe it...YES do it go to the cops, but remember it's just a story you are hearing.

if you SEE it...it's TOTALLY different...if you don't then follow through by reporting it then you are just a terrible person.

You are going a little overboard here Daven.

You know I'm a sensible person. Joe Pa took it sincere enough to pass it on to the AD. That tells you everything you need to know. He was concerned enough to pass it on, just not do what needed to be done because he knew it would ruin the program.

THEN - Still lets the guy have access to everything in the University and not question him or wonder what he is doing when he takes the kids down there. Think to himself that he is doing it again and he is still turning his back to it. Not only did anyone not say anything, they let it continue.


your not being sensible with this at all though.

Joe Pa did what he is suppose to do as an employee of Penn State. He played it by the books. It wasn't that he was concerned enough it was that when something like that is reported to you its your job to report it to those above you.

It wans't his place to call the cops and its a very logical situation. Your arguing these points wtih all the knowldge you have right now, not what JP had at the time. Hence why your not being sensible, your being emotional.

And like I said thats why JP **** the bed.

Morehead State
11-09-2011, 03:58 PM
TBH honest Lando you are scaring me a little, what if I told you some story in jest one day...one you just go run to the cops with it?

What if one of my Ex-Gf's had a vendetta against me and told you a completely untrue story about me...would you go running to the cops?

you seem a little bit insane here....you just believe everything everyone says to you immediately and are willing to ruin lives over it just because "it's the right thing to do" it's not that simple.

If you believe it...YES do it go to the cops, but remember it's just a story you are hearing.

if you SEE it...it's TOTALLY different...if you don't then follow through by reporting it then you are just a terrible person.

You are going a little overboard here Daven.

You know I'm a sensible person. Joe Pa took it sincere enough to pass it on to the AD. That tells you everything you need to know. He was concerned enough to pass it on, just not do what needed to be done because he knew it would ruin the program.

THEN - Still lets the guy have access to everything in the University and not question him or wonder what he is doing when he takes the kids down there. Think to himself that he is doing it again and he is still turning his back to it. Not only did anyone not say anything, they let it continue.
</P>


I completely agree. Joe Pa had a larger obligation. And I don't care if he's a mascot or not.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 03:59 PM
Penn St. head football coach Joe Paterno
just announced that he will retire at the end of the current football
season ... calling the child molestation scandal, "one of the great
sorrows of my life" and saying, "I wish I had done more."

Paterno
released a statement saying, "I am absolutely devastated by the
developments in this case. I grieve for the children and their families,
and I pray for their comfort and relief."

He added, "I have
decided to announce my retirement effective at the end of this season.
At this moment the Board of Trustees should not spend a single minute
discussing my status. They have far more important matters to address. I
want to make this as easy for them as I possibly can."

"This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more."

"My
goals now are to keep my commitments to my players and staff and finish
the season with dignity and determination. And then I will spend the
rest of my life doing everything I can to help this University."

Officials say Paterno had knowledge that former Penn State assistant coach Jerry Sandusky had allegedly sexually abused a pre-teen boy in the showers in the Penn State locker room back in 2002.



Paterno reported the incident to the athletic director at Penn State -- but failed to notify the police.

The
police commissioner says Paterno has not been accused of legal
wrongdoing, but claims Paterno did NOT fulfill his "moral
responsibility."

i know u think this helps ur point and hurts ours, but thats also because like i've said 12 times u haven't grasped what we are saying.



You don't grasp what I am saying Matt. I do understand what you are saying and have said that.


okay but you understand him saying he wish he did more completely plays into the fact that he probably felt like he did he due dilligence by informing the AD. He probably wish he did more once he saw it went no where.

I highly doubt he regrets not calling the police right away

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 04:01 PM
You know I'm a sensible person.

well I thought so before today....



Joe Pa took it sincere enough to pass it on to the AD. That tells you everything you need to know.

No lando...that tells me absolutely nothing, Joe Pa probably handled hundreds if not thousands of complaints just like this during his tenure, and likely handled most of them the same way....by passing them on to the AD...whether he believed it or not...because that's his job.


He was concerned enough to pass it on, just not do what needed to be done because he knew it would ruin the program.

I refuse to make that leap....you can if you want, but I'm not just going to assume the worst in him...it may be the case...but there is not evidence of it.


Still lets the guy have access to everything in the University and not question him or wonder what he is doing when he takes the kids down there. Think to himself that he is doing it again and he is still turning his back to it. Not only did anyone not say anything, they let it continue.


This is where I have have a problem with Joe Pa....how could he not notice...I agree.

but that type of thing, him not noticing something he should have...that's NOTHING in comparison to the failures of the guy who literally witness the rape and did almost nothing about it.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 04:02 PM
TBH honest Lando you are scaring me a little, what if I told you some story in jest one day...one you just go run to the cops with it?

What if one of my Ex-Gf's had a vendetta against me and told you a completely untrue story about me...would you go running to the cops?

you seem a little bit insane here....you just believe everything everyone says to you immediately and are willing to ruin lives over it just because "it's the right thing to do" it's not that simple.

If you believe it...YES do it go to the cops, but remember it's just a story you are hearing.

if you SEE it...it's TOTALLY different...if you don't then follow through by reporting it then you are just a terrible person.

You are going a little overboard here Daven.

You know I'm a sensible person. Joe Pa took it sincere enough to pass it on to the AD. That tells you everything you need to know. He was concerned enough to pass it on, just not do what needed to be done because he knew it would ruin the program.

THEN - Still lets the guy have access to everything in the University and not question him or wonder what he is doing when he takes the kids down there. Think to himself that he is doing it again and he is still turning his back to it. Not only did anyone not say anything, they let it continue.
</p>


I completely agree. Joe Pa had a larger obligation. And I don't care if he's a mascot or not.</p>

nobody had a bigger obligation tha nthe witness who:

A) Could of prevented the rape from continuing

and

B) calling the police to say what he witnessed. JP didn't witness it.

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 04:02 PM
The fact that he told someone, anyone makes the person who heard it just as guilty as him for not contacting the cops in my eyes.

Well then you need Glasses, because Legally and Morally you are just wrong in my opinion by saying that.

Hearing a story about something....versus actually witnessing it are completely and separate things.

I've heard tons of stories not all of them were true and unless I truly believe them I'm not gonna act upon them....but I act upon **** I SEE go down with my own eyes.


Legally yes. Morally no.

Hearing it and seeing it are 2 different things. But right and wrong isn't.


morally just as wrong because you don't know the truth because theres no evidence and its somenbodys word vs somebody elses word

now that we know its true for the most part you can say that. At the time you couldn't and so thats why your wrong. Your hindsight is perfect


The worst part about what Lando is saying, and what scares me a little....is he's willing to take ANYONE word on anything, and is willing to literally ruin a good friends life...without even talking to him about it first...it's not even like he's taking the word of some random person over his good friends word...which would be bad enough...what Lando seems to be saying is that he won't even listen to his friend in the first place.

Some random person tells Lando that you did something horrible Matt, he's not even going to ask you if you did, he's just going to go straight to the cops and bang your life is over (even if your proven innocent your life is over)

You are only as good as your word. I would talk to someone first before accusing them and ruining there life. I would not just run with a random persons accusations but I would get to the bottom of it. If one of my good friends that I trust told me something that someone was doing to kids or their wife and I could tell with conviction they were in danger you bet your *** I'm going to do something. It's my moral obligation to my friends, family and community.

Similar to domestic violence. If I told you Matt was beating Amanda would you believe me or would you turn your eye to it and figure I didn't know what I was talking about. Would you ask Matt? If you did nothing and saw her with a bruise on her eye would you do something then? Would you feel bad you never said anything or would you think she just fell?

Or if you met someone at a bar that knew Amanda and said they thought Matt was beating her what would you do then? Same thing or different? It depends on how much I trust the source.

It was his WR's coach that saw it. Pretty trustworthy source and he was reportedly distraught when he told Joe.

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 04:02 PM
I completely agree. Joe Pa had a larger obligation. And I don't care if he's a mascot or not.

Ridiculous.

the person who heard a story from some random janitor has a larger moral obligation to seek justice then the janitor who witnesses the act himself?

you are either Trolling or you've become temporarily insane.

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 04:05 PM
i hate the fact that because JP is the most popular person at Penn State people think he has his hand in legal, financial, and every other aspect of the place. Its actually scary to hear that from you guys

He has been the Coach since 1966. He is Penn St. How could you think he didn't?

Your negligence is weird considering how much you really know about football.

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 04:06 PM
I would HIGHLY doubt he would of called the cops at that moment


That hurts...

Morehead State
11-09-2011, 04:08 PM
TBH honest Lando you are scaring me a little, what if I told you some story in jest one day...one you just go run to the cops with it?

What if one of my Ex-Gf's had a vendetta against me and told you a completely untrue story about me...would you go running to the cops?

you seem a little bit insane here....you just believe everything everyone says to you immediately and are willing to ruin lives over it just because "it's the right thing to do" it's not that simple.

If you believe it...YES do it go to the cops, but remember it's just a story you are hearing.

if you SEE it...it's TOTALLY different...if you don't then follow through by reporting it then you are just a terrible person.

You are going a little overboard here Daven.

You know I'm a sensible person. Joe Pa took it sincere enough to pass it on to the AD. That tells you everything you need to know. He was concerned enough to pass it on, just not do what needed to be done because he knew it would ruin the program.

THEN - Still lets the guy have access to everything in the University and not question him or wonder what he is doing when he takes the kids down there. Think to himself that he is doing it again and he is still turning his back to it. Not only did anyone not say anything, they let it continue.
</P>


I completely agree. Joe Pa had a larger obligation. And I don't care if he's a mascot or not.</P>




nobody had a bigger obligation tha nthe witness who:

A) Could of prevented the rape from continuing

and

B) calling the police to say what he witnessed. JP didn't witness it.
</P>


So what? Call him every name in the book. He's at a hospital with dementia.</P>


Now back to Joe Paterno.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 04:08 PM
The fact that he told someone, anyone makes the person who heard it just as guilty as him for not contacting the cops in my eyes.

Well then you need Glasses, because Legally and Morally you are just wrong in my opinion by saying that.

Hearing a story about something....versus actually witnessing it are completely and separate things.

I've heard tons of stories not all of them were true and unless I truly believe them I'm not gonna act upon them....but I act upon **** I SEE go down with my own eyes.


Legally yes. Morally no.

Hearing it and seeing it are 2 different things. But right and wrong isn't.


morally just as wrong because you don't know the truth because theres no evidence and its somenbodys word vs somebody elses word

now that we know its true for the most part you can say that. At the time you couldn't and so thats why your wrong. Your hindsight is perfect


The worst part about what Lando is saying, and what scares me a little....is he's willing to take ANYONE word on anything, and is willing to literally ruin a good friends life...without even talking to him about it first...it's not even like he's taking the word of some random person over his good friends word...which would be bad enough...what Lando seems to be saying is that he won't even listen to his friend in the first place.

Some random person tells Lando that you did something horrible Matt, he's not even going to ask you if you did, he's just going to go straight to the cops and bang your life is over (even if your proven innocent your life is over)

You are only as good as your word. I would talk to someone first before accusing them and ruining there life. I would not just run with a random persons accusations but I would get to the bottom of it. If one of my good friends that I trust told me something that someone was doing to kids or their wife and I could tell with conviction they were in danger you bet your *** I'm going to do something. It's my moral obligation to my friends, family and community.

Similar to domestic violence. If I told you Matt was beating Amanda would you believe me or would you turn your eye to it and figure I didn't know what I was talking about. Would you ask Matt? If you did nothing and saw her with a bruise on her eye would you do something then? Would you feel bad you never said anything or would you think she just fell?

Or if you met someone at a bar that knew Amanda and said they thought Matt was beating her what would you do then? Same thing or different? It depends on how much I trust the source.

It was his WR's coach that saw it. Pretty trustworthy source and he was reportedly distraught when he told Joe.


so now bring the grand scheme of things. Some guy you work with, is accusing your best friend who you've worked wtih longer. You've never seen anything like that to support your theory.

Your just making the leap to say that the source is pretty trustworthy because it helps your argument but its doubtful that hes more trustworthy then somebody your close to.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 04:09 PM
I completely agree. Joe Pa had a larger obligation. And I don't care if he's a mascot or not.

Ridiculous.

the person who heard a story from some random janitor has a larger moral obligation to seek justice then the janitor who witnesses the act himself?

you are either Trolling or you've become temporarily insane.


<font color="#ff0000">only if hes really really famous</font>

Morehead State
11-09-2011, 04:09 PM
I completely agree. Joe Pa had a larger obligation. And I don't care if he's a mascot or not.

Ridiculous.

the person who heard a story from some random janitor has a larger moral obligation to seek justice then the janitor who witnesses the act himself?

you are either Trolling or you've become temporarily insane.
</P>


Well two guys got carted off in handcuffes because they didn't do anything about this "story".</P>


</P>

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 04:11 PM
Penn St. head football coach Joe Paterno
just announced that he will retire at the end of the current football
season ... calling the child molestation scandal, "one of the great
sorrows of my life" and saying, "I wish I had done more."

Paterno
released a statement saying, "I am absolutely devastated by the
developments in this case. I grieve for the children and their families,
and I pray for their comfort and relief."

He added, "I have
decided to announce my retirement effective at the end of this season.
At this moment the Board of Trustees should not spend a single minute
discussing my status. They have far more important matters to address. I
want to make this as easy for them as I possibly can."

"This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more."

"My
goals now are to keep my commitments to my players and staff and finish
the season with dignity and determination. And then I will spend the
rest of my life doing everything I can to help this University."

Officials say Paterno had knowledge that former Penn State assistant coach Jerry Sandusky had allegedly sexually abused a pre-teen boy in the showers in the Penn State locker room back in 2002.



Paterno reported the incident to the athletic director at Penn State -- but failed to notify the police.

The
police commissioner says Paterno has not been accused of legal
wrongdoing, but claims Paterno did NOT fulfill his "moral
responsibility."

i know u think this helps ur point and hurts ours, but thats also because like i've said 12 times u haven't grasped what we are saying.



You don't grasp what I am saying Matt. I do understand what you are saying and have said that.


okay but you understand him saying he wish he did more completely plays into the fact that he probably felt like he did he due dilligence by informing the AD. He probably wish he did more once he saw it went no where.

I highly doubt he regrets not calling the police right away

Then that just makes him an even more sick and disgusting ****ing peace of ****. Clearly he felt that way or he would have done more Matt, hence why he regrets it. lol HENCE, why he is getting the ****storm on him.

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 04:12 PM
If one of my good friends that I trust told me something that someone was doing to kids or their wife and I could tell with conviction they were in danger you bet your *** I'm going to do something. It's my moral obligation to my friends, family and community.

OF COURSE ya big dummy, but what if it was some crackhead who told you it? or some random Ex-GF of the person...or some enemy of his...what then?

You say you understand our point but you don't.



Similar to domestic violence. If I told you Matt was beating Amanda would you believe me or would you turn your eye to it and figure I didn't know what I was talking about. Would you ask Matt? If you did nothing and saw her with a bruise on her eye would you do something then? Would you feel bad you never said anything or would you think she just fell?

If YOU told me I would get to the bottom of it...if Jill told me I'd ****ing ignore the ****...because it's most likely she's just trying to get matt's *** beat in revenge...I might bring it up as a joke in passing to see how he reacts to it at worst...


Or if you met someone at a bar that knew Amanda and said they thought Matt was beating her what would you do then? Same thing or different? It depends on how much I trust the source.

THAT's our god damn point Lando...did Joe Pa. trust the source? probably not...it's just some Janitor...and this guy that commited the atrocity was a long time friend and colleague of Joe's.



It was his WR's coach that saw it. Pretty trustworthy source and he was reportedly distraught when he told Joe.

So YOU say...so now you know who Joe Pa. trusts and who he doesn't....stop the bull**** man, the point is you wouldn't always run to the cops from a STORY you heard....but you WOULD if you saw it yourself correct?

well the witness saw it himself and never went to the cops...HE is at fault...more so then Joe Pa...

it's not even debatable if you think otherwise your just wrong.

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 04:12 PM
Joe Pa probably handled hundreds if not thousands of complaints just like this during his tenure.
Really? Handled hundreds if not thousands of complaints like the DC raping a young boy in the shower.


LMAO, and I'm not the sensible one.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 04:12 PM
I would HIGHLY doubt he would of called the cops at that moment


That hurts...


im sorry but say a good friend works with you and another guy u work with vaguely comes at you with osme crazy thing like he saw ur good friend raping a kid in the bathroom and you have never seen evidence of this guy doing anything like that ever: I highly doubt u would call the cops right then and there.

I just think that u hearing the story of somebody else, knowing what we know now about the situation that you think it would be a no brainer. But in the moment it wouldn't of been

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 04:14 PM
I completely agree. Joe Pa had a larger obligation. And I don't care if he's a mascot or not.

Ridiculous.

the person who heard a story from some random janitor has a larger moral obligation to seek justice then the janitor who witnesses the act himself?

you are either Trolling or you've become temporarily insane.
</p>


Well two guys got carted off in handcuffes because they didn't do anything about this "story".</p>


</p>

And I'm not saying that's wrong, what I'm saying is that it's worse not to do anything about something you SAW then not to do something about a story you heard from someone....

and don't give me he went to Joe Pa....that's not enough...he was right in doing that but wrong in not going further, he should have stopped it then in there or should have went to the cops...without doing either of those things he's in the wrong...morally, and more so then Joe Pa.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 04:14 PM
i hate the fact that because JP is the most popular person at Penn State people think he has his hand in legal, financial, and every other aspect of the place. Its actually scary to hear that from you guys

He has been the Coach since 1966. He is Penn St. How could you think he didn't?

Your negligence is weird considering how much you really know about football.


for the simple reason right now:

the penn state committee is meeting right now to see if they'll let him finish out the season. Its not in his control. Your ****in nuts if you think one person has that much power. As much respect and love and all of that he gets for waht hes done there hes not the king in the sense that he actually rules everything there. This isn't the 1970s anymore

Morehead State
11-09-2011, 04:15 PM
Joe Pa probably handled hundreds if not thousands of complaints just like this during his tenure.
Really? Handled hundreds if not thousands of complaints like the DC raping a young boy in the shower.


LMAO, and I'm not the sensible one.
</P>


Yeah...we all have to hear thousands of man/boy rape cases in our lives every day. Its really hard to sort them out. How could Joe Pa be expected to?</P>

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 04:15 PM
Joe Pa probably handled hundreds if not thousands of complaints just like this during his tenure.
Really? Handled hundreds if not thousands of complaints like the DC raping a young boy in the shower.


LMAO, and I'm not the sensible one.


Yes, he probably did, do you think fake reports don't exist? do you think people don't try to get people in trouble? and when they do that who do they go to....oh that's right Joe Pa....and he has to report it to the AD...and they sort out whose telling the truth and who isn't.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 04:15 PM
Joe Pa probably handled hundreds if not thousands of complaints just like this during his tenure.
Really? Handled hundreds if not thousands of complaints like the DC raping a young boy in the shower.


LMAO, and I'm not the sensible one.


no but im suuuuure hes dealt with MANNNNNY Rape cases with players...

i think he was speaking in general. Any type of legal situation with his team and staff has been handled the same way

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 04:16 PM
I completely agree. Joe Pa had a larger obligation. And I don't care if he's a mascot or not.

Ridiculous.

the person who heard a story from some random janitor has a larger moral obligation to seek justice then the janitor who witnesses the act himself?

you are either Trolling or you've become temporarily insane.
</p>


Well two guys got carted off in handcuffes because they didn't do anything about this "story".</p>


</p>

yea the people who are suppose to handle these things didn't. Notice JP wasn't in cuffs?

Morehead State
11-09-2011, 04:17 PM
I completely agree. Joe Pa had a larger obligation. And I don't care if he's a mascot or not.

Ridiculous.

the person who heard a story from some random janitor has a larger moral obligation to seek justice then the janitor who witnesses the act himself?

you are either Trolling or you've become temporarily insane.
</P>


Well two guys got carted off in handcuffes because they didn't do anything about this "story".</P>


</P>




And I'm not saying that's wrong, what I'm saying is that it's worse not to do anything about something you SAW then not to do something about a story you heard from someone....

and don't give me he went to Joe Pa....that's not enough...he was right in doing that but wrong in not going further, he should have stopped it then in there or should have went to the cops...without doing either of those things he's in the wrong...morally, and more so then Joe Pa.
</P>


Obviously not. Since Joe Pa passed it along like an email forward.</P>


Maybe he expected more from the most important man in PSU history.</P>

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 04:17 PM
Joe Pa probably handled hundreds if not thousands of complaints just like this during his tenure.
Really? Handled hundreds if not thousands of complaints like the DC raping a young boy in the shower.


LMAO, and I'm not the sensible one.


no but im suuuuure hes dealt with MANNNNNY Rape cases with players...

i think he was speaking in general. Any type of legal situation with his team and staff has been handled the same way


Exactly....It may not have been the DC....but how many women in the college do you think claimed the star QB or RB raped them...or was the bady daddy or whatever man....Joe Pa. has had to deal with these issues for years and years and years....and they are dealt with the same way...passed along.

but when you SEE something lando...when you see it, the standards on how far you are willing to go are different.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 04:18 PM
Penn St. head football coach Joe Paterno
just announced that he will retire at the end of the current football
season ... calling the child molestation scandal, "one of the great
sorrows of my life" and saying, "I wish I had done more."

Paterno
released a statement saying, "I am absolutely devastated by the
developments in this case. I grieve for the children and their families,
and I pray for their comfort and relief."

He added, "I have
decided to announce my retirement effective at the end of this season.
At this moment the Board of Trustees should not spend a single minute
discussing my status. They have far more important matters to address. I
want to make this as easy for them as I possibly can."

"This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more."

"My
goals now are to keep my commitments to my players and staff and finish
the season with dignity and determination. And then I will spend the
rest of my life doing everything I can to help this University."

Officials say Paterno had knowledge that former Penn State assistant coach Jerry Sandusky had allegedly sexually abused a pre-teen boy in the showers in the Penn State locker room back in 2002.



Paterno reported the incident to the athletic director at Penn State -- but failed to notify the police.

The
police commissioner says Paterno has not been accused of legal
wrongdoing, but claims Paterno did NOT fulfill his "moral
responsibility."

i know u think this helps ur point and hurts ours, but thats also because like i've said 12 times u haven't grasped what we are saying.



You don't grasp what I am saying Matt. I do understand what you are saying and have said that.


okay but you understand him saying he wish he did more completely plays into the fact that he probably felt like he did he due dilligence by informing the AD. He probably wish he did more once he saw it went no where.

I highly doubt he regrets not calling the police right away

Then that just makes him an even more sick and disgusting ****ing peace of ****. Clearly he felt that way or he would have done more Matt, hence why he regrets it. lol HENCE, why he is getting the ****storm on him.


no because had he reported it to his superiors and then nothing happened (like it did) and then he came back out and did osmething about it instead of letting it get swept under the run he would of been viewed as the hero

your in denial if u think he hasn't to report rape cases before

Morehead State
11-09-2011, 04:18 PM
I completely agree. Joe Pa had a larger obligation. And I don't care if he's a mascot or not.

Ridiculous.

the person who heard a story from some random janitor has a larger moral obligation to seek justice then the janitor who witnesses the act himself?

you are either Trolling or you've become temporarily insane.
</P>


Well two guys got carted off in handcuffes because they didn't do anything about this "story".</P>


</P>




yea the people who are suppose to handle these things didn't. Notice JP wasn't in cuffs?
</P>


If he had not passed it on to the AD, he would have. Although his legal exposure is low, the expectations of decent society will not be as lax.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 04:20 PM
I completely agree. Joe Pa had a larger obligation. And I don't care if he's a mascot or not.

Ridiculous.

the person who heard a story from some random janitor has a larger moral obligation to seek justice then the janitor who witnesses the act himself?

you are either Trolling or you've become temporarily insane.
</p>


Well two guys got carted off in handcuffes because they didn't do anything about this "story".</p>


</p>

And I'm not saying that's wrong, what I'm saying is that it's worse not to do anything about something you SAW then not to do something about a story you heard from someone....

and don't give me he went to Joe Pa....that's not enough...he was right in doing that but wrong in not going further, he should have stopped it then in there or should have went to the cops...without doing either of those things he's in the wrong...morally, and more so then Joe Pa.



lol its baffling

GUY ONE: Witness. Saw the act happen and told some other guy - off the hook

GUY TWO: Boss. Somebody told him what happened, he told his superior - BURN HIM!

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 04:21 PM
Obviously not. Since Joe Pa passed it along like an email forward.</p>


Maybe he expected more from the most important man in PSU history.</p>

it's morally reprehensible that he had to depend on any other human being to take care of this at all Joe Pa. or not, he should have smashed his face right there...but baring physical violence which some people are against he should never have stopped telling everyone Joe Pa...sure...but the cops included...until this man was brought to justice.

Having seen the act being committed himself...HE is most responsible for making sure that man gets what he deserves, be it through Joe Pa....the Cops...or even himself if need be...but he can't stop until it's done.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 04:22 PM
wait a minute now im ****in lost here... lando said one thing pappy said the other

WHO was the guy who saw this and went to Joe Pa?

Pappy is saying it was a janitor and so was someone else

and Lando said it was a coach who is now the WRs coach at Penn St.

Morehead State
11-09-2011, 04:23 PM
wait a minute now im ****in lost here... lando said one thing pappy said the other

WHO was the guy who saw this and went to Joe Pa?

Pappy is saying it was a janitor and so was someone else

and Lando said it was a coach who is now the WRs coach at Penn St.
</P>


I understand that the janitor went to Joe Pa. At least thats what it seemed to me.</P>

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 04:23 PM
I completely agree. Joe Pa had a larger obligation. And I don't care if he's a mascot or not.

Ridiculous.

the person who heard a story from some random janitor has a larger moral obligation to seek justice then the janitor who witnesses the act himself?

you are either Trolling or you've become temporarily insane.
</p>


Well two guys got carted off in handcuffes because they didn't do anything about this "story".</p>


</p>

And I'm not saying that's wrong, what I'm saying is that it's worse not to do anything about something you SAW then not to do something about a story you heard from someone....

and don't give me he went to Joe Pa....that's not enough...he was right in doing that but wrong in not going further, he should have stopped it then in there or should have went to the cops...without doing either of those things he's in the wrong...morally, and more so then Joe Pa.



lol its baffling

GUY ONE: Witness. Saw the act happen and told some other guy - off the hook

GUY TWO: Boss. Somebody told him what happened, he told his superior - BURN HIM!



It's literally insanity...there is something wrong with people today, I'm almost disgusted...I'm holding onto the hope that they simply don't understand what we are saying ...because the alternative is that they do and their values are seriously in question then.

Morehead State
11-09-2011, 04:25 PM
Obviously not. Since Joe Pa passed it along like an email forward.</P>


Maybe he expected more from the most important man in PSU history.</P>




it's morally reprehensible that he had to depend on any other human being to take care of this at all Joe Pa. or not, he should have smashed his face right there...but baring physical violence which some people are against he should never have stopped telling everyone Joe Pa...sure...but the cops included...until this man was brought to justice.

Having seen the act being committed himself...HE is most responsible for making sure that man gets what he deserves, be it through Joe Pa....the Cops...or even himself if need be...but he can't stop until it's done.
</P>


I really don't know about that. A lowely janitor seeing a powerful member of the PSU community doing something like that could be very scary.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 04:25 PM
I completely agree. Joe Pa had a larger obligation. And I don't care if he's a mascot or not.

Ridiculous.

the person who heard a story from some random janitor has a larger moral obligation to seek justice then the janitor who witnesses the act himself?

you are either Trolling or you've become temporarily insane.
</p>


Well two guys got carted off in handcuffes because they didn't do anything about this "story".</p>


</p>




yea the people who are suppose to handle these things didn't. Notice JP wasn't in cuffs?
</p>


If he had not passed it on to the AD, he would have. Although his legal exposure is low, the expectations of decent society will not be as lax.</p>

I agree he ultimately should of never let it rest but what do you mean? What will society do to him?

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 04:26 PM
wait a minute now im ****in lost here... lando said one thing pappy said the other

WHO was the guy who saw this and went to Joe Pa?

Pappy is saying it was a janitor and so was someone else

and Lando said it was a coach who is now the WRs coach at Penn St.


Honestly it's irrelevant...whether it was a Janitor or the WR's coach either way it's his responsibility to make sure this guy was brought to justice any way he could....more so then Joe Pa....who just heard the story....and didn't witness it himself.

Morehead State
11-09-2011, 04:28 PM
I completely agree. Joe Pa had a larger obligation. And I don't care if he's a mascot or not.

Ridiculous.

the person who heard a story from some random janitor has a larger moral obligation to seek justice then the janitor who witnesses the act himself?

you are either Trolling or you've become temporarily insane.
</P>


Well two guys got carted off in handcuffes because they didn't do anything about this "story".</P>


</P>




yea the people who are suppose to handle these things didn't. Notice JP wasn't in cuffs?
</P>


If he had not passed it on to the AD, he would have. Although his legal exposure is low, the expectations of decent society will not be as lax.</P>




I agree he ultimately should of never let it rest but what do you mean? What will society do to him?
</P>


Get him fired...have him lose his reputation. The things that societies do.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 04:29 PM
Obviously not. Since Joe Pa passed it along like an email forward.</p>


Maybe he expected more from the most important man in PSU history.</p>




it's morally reprehensible that he had to depend on any other human being to take care of this at all Joe Pa. or not, he should have smashed his face right there...but baring physical violence which some people are against he should never have stopped telling everyone Joe Pa...sure...but the cops included...until this man was brought to justice.

Having seen the act being committed himself...HE is most responsible for making sure that man gets what he deserves, be it through Joe Pa....the Cops...or even himself if need be...but he can't stop until it's done.
</p>


I really don't know about that. A lowely janitor seeing a powerful member of the PSU community doing something like that could be very scary.</p>

It just makes no sense to me where u want to see the buck stop and where you give your passes to me. Status in the community, specifically the Penn State community, should have ZERO impact on this situation.

Its not about a Penn State worker committing rape, its about a child being raped

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 04:30 PM
TBH honest Lando you are scaring me a little, what if I told you some story in jest one day...one you just go run to the cops with it?

What if one of my Ex-Gf's had a vendetta against me and told you a completely untrue story about me...would you go running to the cops?

you seem a little bit insane here....you just believe everything everyone says to you immediately and are willing to ruin lives over it just because "it's the right thing to do" it's not that simple.

If you believe it...YES do it go to the cops, but remember it's just a story you are hearing.

if you SEE it...it's TOTALLY different...if you don't then follow through by reporting it then you are just a terrible person.

You are going a little overboard here Daven.

You know I'm a sensible person. Joe Pa took it sincere enough to pass it on to the AD. That tells you everything you need to know. He was concerned enough to pass it on, just not do what needed to be done because he knew it would ruin the program.

THEN - Still lets the guy have access to everything in the University and not question him or wonder what he is doing when he takes the kids down there. Think to himself that he is doing it again and he is still turning his back to it. Not only did anyone not say anything, they let it continue.
</p>


I completely agree. Joe Pa had a larger obligation. And I don't care if he's a mascot or not.</p>

nobody had a bigger obligation tha nthe witness who:

A) Could of prevented the rape from continuing

and

B) calling the police to say what he witnessed. JP didn't witness it.

Holy **** Matt. No one is arguing that. We all believe you! It's the truth.

Once JP was told, he should have done something more than contacting the AD. Then after the AD did nothing he should have gone to the police himself.

His word holds more weight than anyone's.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 04:31 PM
I completely agree. Joe Pa had a larger obligation. And I don't care if he's a mascot or not.

Ridiculous.

the person who heard a story from some random janitor has a larger moral obligation to seek justice then the janitor who witnesses the act himself?

you are either Trolling or you've become temporarily insane.
</p>


Well two guys got carted off in handcuffes because they didn't do anything about this "story".</p>


</p>




yea the people who are suppose to handle these things didn't. Notice JP wasn't in cuffs?
</p>


If he had not passed it on to the AD, he would have. Although his legal exposure is low, the expectations of decent society will not be as lax.</p>




I agree he ultimately should of never let it rest but what do you mean? What will society do to him?
</p>


Get him fired...have him lose his reputation. The things that societies do.</p>

So hes not untouchable? Doesn't that kind of trump your all holy powerful PAterno points?

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 04:31 PM
wait a minute now im ****in lost here... lando said one thing pappy said the other

WHO was the guy who saw this and went to Joe Pa?

Pappy is saying it was a janitor and so was someone else

and Lando said it was a coach who is now the WRs coach at Penn St.


Honestly it's irrelevant...whether it was a Janitor or the WR's coach either way it's his responsibility to make sure this guy was brought to justice any way he could....more so then Joe Pa....who just heard the story....and didn't witness it himself.


i just want to know what happened

I mean i want the story cleared up, maybe we all have different details and thats why we are missing each other

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 04:31 PM
I really don't know about that. A lowely janitor seeing a powerful member of the PSU community doing something like that could be very scary.</p>

You can't be serious, I know you would have done more then just tell Joe Pa....and then let it drop and never bring it up again if nothing happened.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 04:33 PM
TBH honest Lando you are scaring me a little, what if I told you some story in jest one day...one you just go run to the cops with it?

What if one of my Ex-Gf's had a vendetta against me and told you a completely untrue story about me...would you go running to the cops?

you seem a little bit insane here....you just believe everything everyone says to you immediately and are willing to ruin lives over it just because "it's the right thing to do" it's not that simple.

If you believe it...YES do it go to the cops, but remember it's just a story you are hearing.

if you SEE it...it's TOTALLY different...if you don't then follow through by reporting it then you are just a terrible person.

You are going a little overboard here Daven.

You know I'm a sensible person. Joe Pa took it sincere enough to pass it on to the AD. That tells you everything you need to know. He was concerned enough to pass it on, just not do what needed to be done because he knew it would ruin the program.

THEN - Still lets the guy have access to everything in the University and not question him or wonder what he is doing when he takes the kids down there. Think to himself that he is doing it again and he is still turning his back to it. Not only did anyone not say anything, they let it continue.
</p>


I completely agree. Joe Pa had a larger obligation. And I don't care if he's a mascot or not.</p>

nobody had a bigger obligation tha nthe witness who:

A) Could of prevented the rape from continuing

and

B) calling the police to say what he witnessed. JP didn't witness it.

Holy **** Matt. No one is arguing that. We all believe you! It's the truth.

Once JP was told, he should have done something more than contacting the AD. Then after the AD did nothing he should have gone to the police himself.

His word holds more weight than anyone's.


well this is where i have my issues with your view point

A) The only place that JP holds more water than his assistnat coach is at penn state in the college football world: NOT WITH THE LAW. So thats just complete horse****

B) The fact that your still somehow more upset with Paterno, rather than the person not trying to stop the rape is beyond ****in moronic. Stop losing sight of what this is about. Its like your really playing the headline game with this and your better than that

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 04:36 PM
Holy **** Matt. No one is arguing that.


you are incorrect that is EXACTLY what people are arguing, Morehead in particular is arguing that Joe Pa. bares a larger portion of the blame/responsibility then the actual witness...

and that's what me and Matt are arguing against....actually witnessing the event puts more of the responsibility on you then the guy you tell the story too....that is all me and Matt are saying.

we recognize that Joe Pa...didn't go far enough...we aren't arguing against that.

Morehead State
11-09-2011, 04:36 PM
Heres part of an article I looked up. Evidentally the janitor reported to "superiors" and the grad asst. reported 2 years later of another incident he witnessed.</P>
<DIV id=content>
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<LI>Stumble (http://www.stumbleupon.com/submit?url=http://www.npr.org/2011/11/08/142111804/penn-state-abuse-scandal-a-guide-and-timeline&amp;title=Penn+State+Abuse+Scandal%3A+A+Guide +And+Timeline)[/url]</LI>[/list]</DIV></LI>[/list]
<DIV class=spacer> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=storytitle>
<H1>Penn State Abuse Scandal: A Guide And Timeline</H1>
<DIV id=storybyline class=storylocation>
<DIV id=res142112332 class="bucketwrap byline">
<P class=byline>by [url="http://www.npr.org/people/14562108/bill-chappell"]<SPAN><FONT color=#000000>Bill Chappell</FONT></SPAN> (javascript: window.print(); void(1);)</P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=dateblock>
<DIV class=textsize>text size A (javascript: void();) A (javascript: void();) A (javascript: void();) </DIV><SPAN class=date><FONT color=#999999>November 8, 2011</FONT></SPAN> </DIV>


Former Penn State defensive coordinator Gerald "Jerry" Sandusky has been charged with sexually abusing eight boys following a grand jury investigation that also led to charges against two university officials. Athletic director Tim Curley and a vice president, Gary Schultz, are accused of perjury and failing to report suspected child abuse. Both have stepped down from their posts.</P>


The scandal has shocked the Penn State community, where legendary head football coach Joe Paterno has long been credited for running a successful by-the-rules program. Pennsylvania Attorney General Linda Kelly says the investigation is ongoing but that Paterno is "not regarded as a target." However, pressure is mounting for the coach to resign; he has announced that he will retire at the end of the 2011 season.</P>
<HR>



Key Figures</P>


Jerry Sandusky: The former defensive coordinator was charged with sexually abusing eight boys over a 15-year period. Sandusky, 67, maintains he is innocent. He played football at Penn State and was a coach there for 32 years 23 of them as the team's defensive coordinator. He and his wife, Dottie, raised six adopted children.</P>


Tim Curley: The Penn State athletic director, 57, denies being told of sexual misconduct by Sandusky in 2002 but is accused of covering up allegations tied to the scandal. He was named athletic director on Dec. 30, 1993. Curley went on administrative leave the day before his Nov. 7 arraignment.</P>


Gary Schultz: As the school's senior vice president for finance and business which gives him oversight of university police Schultz, 62, has been charged with covering up abuse allegations. He served as Penn State's senior vice president and treasurer from 1993 to 2009, when he retired. Schultz returned to the same job in 2011, on a temporary basis. In early 2010, the university named a campus child care center after Schultz, who retired again on Nov. 6.</P>


Joe Paterno: "Joe Pa," 84, has been an assistant or head coach at Penn State University since 1950. Coming under increasing pressure to resign in the wake of the scandal, he plans to retire at the end of the 2011 season. In a statement, Paterno said, "This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more." Law enforcement officials say he is not a target in their investigation. Paterno has five children, all of whom attended Penn State.</P>


Graham Spanier: Spanier, 63, became the university's president in 1995, after serving at universities in Oregon, Nebraska, and New York. A faculty and staff member at Penn State from 1973 to 1982, Spanier's academic background is in sociology and family counseling.</P>


Mike McQueary: In 2002, the then-graduate assistant told Paterno that he had witnessed Sandusky abusing a boy in a Penn State locker room shower. Paterno informed Curley, who later met with the graduate assistant and Schultz. McQueary, who is now an assistant coach at Penn State, reiterated his statement to the grand jury.</P>


Jim Calhoun: A temporary worker whose job as a janitor at Penn State lasted only eight months, Calhoun told co-workers and a supervisor in 2000 that he witnessed Sandusky engaging in sexual activity with a boy in a campus locker-room shower. Several staff members later said that Calhoun, a veteran of the Korean War, was visibly shaken by what he reported seeing. He now resides in an assisted living facility and reportedly has dementia.</P>


Ray Gricar: Declared legally dead in July, Gricar was the Centre County district attorney from 1985 to 2005, when he disappeared. He chose not to prosecute Sandusky in 1998 after allegations of inappropriate contact with young boys surfaced. The decision helped to end a police investigation into the report.</P>


Wendell Courtney: The former general counsel for Penn State University is also the longtime lawyer for Sandusky's charity foundation, The Second Mile. He was working for both organizations when, according to Schultz, he reviewed the 1998 university police report about Sandusky's behavior with boys.</P>
<HR>



Timeline Of Events</P>


1977: Jerry Sandusky establishes <FONT color=#3366cc>The Second Mile</FONT> (http://www.thesecondmile.org/) in State College, Pa., "as a group foster home devoted to helping troubled boys," <FONT color=#3366cc>according to the grand jury's findings</FONT> (http://www.npr.org/assets/news/2011/11/sandusky_presentment.pdf). The program evolves into a statewide charity whose honorary board members include Paterno and other sports figures.</P>


1993: Tim Curley becomes Penn State's athletic director. That same year, Gary Schultz is named the school's treasurer and senior vice president.</P>


1994: A boy identified as Victim 7 in the grand jury report meets Sandusky through the Second Mile program. Now 26, Victim 7 says that after a couple of years in the program, he often spent Friday nights at Sandusky's house and attended football games with him the next day. He says Sandusky touched him in ways that made him uncomfortable, primarily during car rides and when the two showered after a workout.</P>


1998: An 11-year-old boy returns home with wet hair after an outing with Sandusky. Victim 6 tells his mother he took a shower with Sandusky and that the coach hugged him several times. The boy's mother contacts university police, triggering an investigation.</P>


On May 13 and May 19, Det. Ronald Shreffler records the boy's mother during a call with Sandusky. Court papers say Sandusky acknowledges that he showered with the boy, as well as with others. When the mother cuts off contact with Sandusky after a second call, he tells her, "I wish I were dead," according to court papers.</P>


On June 1, Jerry Lauro, an investigator from the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare, takes part in an interview of Sandusky by Shreffler. According to the grand jury report, Sandusky admits to hugging the boy in the shower, and says he will not shower with children again.</P>


Shreffler speaks to another boy who reports similar treatment to that reported by Victim 6. But the investigation ends after District Attorney Ray Gricar decides the case warrants no criminal charges. Shreffler tells the grand jury that Thomas Harmon, who headed the campus police, told him to close the inquiry.</P>


1999: Sandusky retires from Penn State's football program, but with an "emeritus" label that allows him continued access to campus facilities, including the locker room and an office in the Lasch Football Building. Schultz has testified that the timing of Sandusky's retirement was not related to the university police investigation a year earlier.</P>


2000: Jim Calhoun, a janitor at the Lasch building, tells a co-worker and his supervisor that he saw Sandusky engaged in sexual activity with a boy in the assistant coaches' shower. The boy, referred to as Victim 8 in court papers, has never been identified.</P>


Calhoun's colleague Ronald Petrosky, who reported seeing Sandusky's car in the parking lot later that night in the fall of 2000, says that members of the janitorial staff were concerned that they might lose their jobs if they spoke out about what had happened.</P>


After Calhoun told his supervisor, Jay Witherite, what he had seen, Witherite told him whom he could report the incident to, if he chose to do so.</P>


2002: A graduate assistant reports seeing Sandusky sexually assaulting a boy in the showers at Lasch Football Building on the Penn State campus, around 9:30 p.m. on Friday, March 1. The assault on the boy, who Kelly said "appeared to be about 10 years old," is reported to Paterno the next day. Paterno, in turn, passes the information to Curley one day later.</P>


The graduate assistant, who has since been identified as current Penn State assistant coach Mike McQueary, meets with Curley and Schultz, but not Paterno, some 10 days later. According to McQueary, he told them that he had seen Sandusky having sex with a boy in the showers. No report is made to police or to any child protection agency a breach of state law, prosecutors say.</P>


Two weeks later, Curley tells McQueary that Sandusky's keys to the locker room have been taken away and that the incident was reported to The Second Mile charity.</P>


Sandusky is banned from bringing children onto the Penn State campus in a decision reviewed and approved by Spanier, the university president.</P>


2009: The mother of the boy identified by court papers as Victim 1 calls a high school in Clinton County to report that her son was sexually abused by Sandusky. The school district bans Sandusky from any of its campuses, and the police are notified.</P>


2010: In December, the graduate assistant who had reported the 2002 assault testifies before a grand jury investigating Sandusky, detailing what he saw and what he told Paterno, Schultz and Curley.</P>


And in 2010 or 2011, Victim 7 tells the grand jury that prior to his testimony, he received voice mails from Sandusky, his wife and a friend of Sandusky's. Victim 7 says he did not return any of the calls.</P>


2011: In his Jan. 12 grand jury testimony, Curley says the graduate assistant reported only "inappropriate," not "sexual" conduct, calling the conduct "horsing around."</P>


Also testifying on Jan. 12, Schultz says he met with Curley and Paterno about the abuse allegations. But he tells the grand jury that he was unsure about the details of what had happened and that he thought Sandusky and the boy might have been wrestling when the inappropriate contact occurred.</P>


Saturday, Nov. 5: The investigation into Sandusky, Curley and Schultz becomes public, with prosecutors accusing the former assistant coach of making inappropriate sexual advances or assaults on eight boys, from 1994 to 2009.</P>


Sunday, Nov. 6: Curley and Schultz vacate their university posts following an emergency meeting with school officials.</P>


Monday, Nov. 7: Curley and Schultz are arraigned on charges of making false statements to the grand jury and failing to report the possible abuse of a child.</P>


Wednesday, Nov. 9: Paterno, coming under increasing pressure to resign in the wake of the Sandusky scandal, announces that he will retire at the end of the 2011 season, when his three-year contract expires. In a statement, Paterno said, "This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more."</P>


Sections of this timeline are based on events as described by <FONT color=#3366cc>the investigating grand jury's findings</FONT> (http://www.npr.org/assets/news/2011/11/sandusky_presentment.pdf).</P></DIV>
<DIV id=storyspan03 class=storylocation>
<DIV id=res142138524 class="bucketwrap listtext">
<DIV class=bucket>


Former Penn State defensive coordinator Gerald "Jerry" Sandusky has been charged with sexually abusing eight boys following a grand jury investigation that also led to charges against two university officials. Athletic director Tim Curley and a vice president, Gary Schultz, are accused of perjury and failing to report suspected child abuse. Both have stepped down from their posts.</P>


The scandal has shocked the Penn State community, where legendary head football coach Joe Paterno has long been credited for running a successful by-the-rules program. Pennsylvania Attorney General Linda Kelly says the investigation is ongoing but that Paterno is "not regarded as a target." However, pressure is mounting for the coach to resign; he has announced that he will retire at the end of the 2011 season.</P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=res142139951 class="bucketwrap listtext">
<DIV class=bucket>
<UL class=edTag>
<LI class=tab-open jQuery162020348447415275034="1">Key Figures</LI>
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<H3 class=hed>Key Figures</H3>
<UL>
<LI>
<DIV id=res142130482 class="bucket listitem simplelistitem">
<H3>Jerry Sandusky</H3>
<DIV id=res142134826 class="bucketwrap photo138">http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2011/11/08/sandusky_mug_sq.jpg?t=1320772183&amp;s=1
<DIV class=captionwrap><SPAN class=creditwrap><SPAN class=rightsnotice>AP</SPAN></SPAN>


</P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=bucketblock>


The former defensive coordinator was charged with sexually abusing eight boys over a 15-year period. Sandusky, 67, maintains he is innocent. He played football at Penn State and was a coach there for 32 years 23 of them as the team's defensive coordinator. He and his wife, Dottie, raised six adopted children.</P></DIV></DIV></LI>
<LI>
<DIV id=res142131382 class="bucket listitem simplelistitem">
<H3>Tim Curley</H3>
<DIV id=res142134569 class="bucketwrap photo138">http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2011/11/08/curley_sq.jpg?t=1320772202&amp;s=1
<DIV class=captionwrap><SPAN class=creditwrap><SPAN class=credit>Patrick Smith</SPAN>/<SPAN class=rightsnotice>Getty Images</SPAN></SPAN>


</P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=bucketblock>


The Penn State athletic director, 57, denies being told of sexual misconduct by Sandusky in 2002 but is accused of covering up allegations tied to the scandal. He was named athletic director on Dec. 30, 1993. Curley went on administrative leave the day before his Nov. 7 arraignment.</P></DIV></DIV></LI>
<LI>
<DIV id=res142131667 class="bucket listitem simplelistitem">
<H3>Gary Schultz</H3>
<DIV id=res142134841 class="bucketwrap photo138">http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2011/11/08/schultz_sq.jpg?t=1320772217&amp;s=1
<DIV class=captionwrap><SPAN class=creditwrap><SPAN class=credit>Patrick Smith</SPAN>/<SPAN class=rightsnotice>Getty Images</SPAN></SPAN>


</P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=bucketblock>


As the senior vice president for finance and business which gives him oversight of university police Schultz, 62, has been charged with covering up abuse allegations. He served as Penn State's senior vice president and treasurer from 1993 to 2009, when he retired. Schultz returned to the same job in 2011, on a temporary basis. In early 2010, the university named a campus child care center after Schultz, who retired again on Nov. 6.</P></DIV></DIV></LI>
<LI>
<DIV id=res142131834 class="bucket listitem simplelistitem">
<H3>Joe Paterno</H3>
<DIV id=res142131996 class="bucketwrap photo138">http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2011/11/08/paterno_sq.jpg?t=1320769204&amp;s=1
<DIV class=captionwrap><SPAN class=creditwrap><SPAN class=credit>Justin K. Aller</SPAN>/<SPAN class=rightsnotice>Getty Images</SPAN></SPAN>


</P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=bucketblock>


"Joe Pa," 84, has been an assistant or head coach at Penn State University since 1950. Coming under increasing pressure to resign in the wake of the scandal, he plans to retire at the end of the 2011 season. In a statement, Paterno said, "This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more." Law enforcement officials say he is not a target in their investigation. Paterno has five children, all of whom attended Penn State.</P></DIV></DIV></LI>
<LI>
<DIV id=res142132019 class="bucket listitem simplelistitem">
<H3>Graham Spanier</H3>
<DIV id=res142132800 class="bucketwrap photo138">http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2011/11/08/Graham_Spanier_sq.jpg?t=1320769862&amp;s=1
<DIV class=captionwrap><SPAN class=creditwrap><SPAN class=credit>Gene J. Puskar</SPAN>/<SPAN class=rightsnotice>AP</SPAN></SPAN>


</P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=bucketblock>


Spanier, 63, became the university's president in 1995, after serving at universities in Oregon, Nebraska, and New York. A faculty and staff member at Penn State from 1973 to 1982, Spanier's academic background is in sociology and family counseling.</P></DIV></DIV></LI>
<LI>
<DIV id=res142132327 class="bucket listitem simplelistitem">
<H3>Mike McQueary</H3>
<DIV id=res142134813 class="bucketwrap photo138">http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2011/11/08/mcqueary_sq.jpg?t=1320772238&amp;s=1
<DIV class=captionwrap><SPAN class=creditwrap><SPAN class=credit>Chris Gardner</SPAN>/<SPAN class=rightsnotice>Getty Images</SPAN></SPAN>


</P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=bucketblock>


In 2002, the then-graduate assistant told Paterno that he had witnessed Sandusky abusing a boy in a Penn State locker room shower. Paterno informed Curley, who later met with the graduate assistant and Schultz. McQueary, who is now an assistant coach at Penn State, reiterated his statement to the grand jury.</P></DIV></DIV></LI>
<LI>
<DIV id=res142132335 class="bucket listitem simplelistitem">
<H3>Jim Calhoun</H3>
<DIV class=bucketblock>


A temporary worker whose job as a janitor at Penn State lasted only eight months, Calhoun told co-workers and a supervisor in 2000 that he witnessed Sandusky engaging in sexual activity with a boy in a campus locker-room shower. Several staff members later said that Calhoun, a veteran of the Korean War, was visibly shaken by what he reported seeing. He now resides in an assisted living facility and reportedly has dementia.</P></DIV></DIV></LI>[/list]</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 04:38 PM
Jerry Sandusky: The former defensive coordinator was
charged with sexually abusing eight boys over a 15-year period.
Sandusky, 67, maintains he is innocent. He played football at Penn
State and was a coach there for 32 years 23 of them as the team's
defensive coordinator. He and his wife, Dottie, <font size="6">raised six adopted
children.</font>



jesus god, i dont even want to think about it

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 04:38 PM
LANDO


I completely agree. Joe Pa had a larger obligation. And I don't care if he's a mascot or not.

Do you agree with that.

do you think Joe Pa who heard the story from the witness, had a larger obligation to make sure this guy got what he deserved then the witness himself?

(morally?)

Morehead State
11-09-2011, 04:39 PM
Holy **** Matt. No one is arguing that.


you are incorrect that is EXACTLY what people are arguing, Morehead in particular is arguing that Joe Pa. bares a larger portion of the blame/responsibility then the actual witness...

and that's what me and Matt are arguing against....actually witnessing the event puts more of the responsibility on you then the guy you tell the story too....that is all me and Matt are saying.

we recognize that Joe Pa...didn't go far enough...we aren't arguing against that.
</P>


I'm not arguing that at all. I'm arguing that Joe Pa had a far greater responsibility that he took on by meerly passing it on to the AD, and then working alongside the guy after that.</P>


I don't give 2 ****s about what an unknown temp. worker does.</P>

Morehead State
11-09-2011, 04:40 PM
LANDO


I completely agree. Joe Pa had a larger obligation. And I don't care if he's a mascot or not.

Do you agree with that.

do you think Joe Pa who heard the story from the witness, had a larger obligation to make sure this guy got what he deserved then the witness himself?

(morally?)

</P>


What I meant is that he had a larger obligation than to simply pass it on to the AD.</P>

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 04:46 PM
I completely agree. Joe Pa had a larger obligation. And I don't care if he's a mascot or not.

Ridiculous.

the person who heard a story from some random janitor has a larger moral obligation to seek justice then the janitor who witnesses the act himself?

you are either Trolling or you've become temporarily insane.
</p>


Well two guys got carted off in handcuffes because they didn't do anything about this "story".</p>


</p>




And I'm not saying that's wrong, what I'm saying is that it's worse not to do anything about something you SAW then not to do something about a story you heard from someone....

and don't give me he went to Joe Pa....that's not enough...he was right in doing that but wrong in not going further, he should have stopped it then in there or should have went to the cops...without doing either of those things he's in the wrong...morally, and more so then Joe Pa.
</p>


Obviously not. Since Joe Pa passed it along like an email forward.</p>


<font color="#0000FF">Maybe he expected more from the most important man in PSU history.</font></p>
I don't understand why they can't grasp this?

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 04:47 PM
This is the order I put them in Morehead.

Morally Wrong worst to best.

Worst - Jerry Sandusky (obviously on a whole different level)

Then - Schultz and Curly for intentionally covering it up.

Then - Mike McQueary and Jim Calhoun for not making sure the guy got what he deserved after witnessing the crimes themselves.

Then - Paterno and maybe Spainer ... for only doing the minimum... and not taking it upon themselves to investigate the allegations further.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 04:48 PM
LANDO


I completely agree. Joe Pa had a larger obligation. And I don't care if he's a mascot or not.

Do you agree with that.

do you think Joe Pa who heard the story from the witness, had a larger obligation to make sure this guy got what he deserved then the witness himself?

(morally?)

</p>


What I meant is that he had a larger obligation than to simply pass it on to the AD.</p>

even after reading that timeline?

It seems that the sexual misconduct that occured was witnessed by the janitor who reported it to his superior and that it went no where.

The assistant said that he saw them horsing around. I mean it seems to me that just from this that Joe Pa knew they were showering together. Im not sure what he was suppose to do wtih that? I mean at that time he wasn't working there, there was no sexual conduct, they banned him, took away his privilidges, and informed the charity.

Which is kind of confusing how Matt Millen could be so surprised by this if hes on the board since they were notified

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 04:50 PM
I completely agree. Joe Pa had a larger obligation. And I don't care if he's a mascot or not.

Ridiculous.

the person who heard a story from some random janitor has a larger moral obligation to seek justice then the janitor who witnesses the act himself?

you are either Trolling or you've become temporarily insane.
</p>


Well two guys got carted off in handcuffes because they didn't do anything about this "story".</p>


</p>




And I'm not saying that's wrong, what I'm saying is that it's worse not to do anything about something you SAW then not to do something about a story you heard from someone....

and don't give me he went to Joe Pa....that's not enough...he was right in doing that but wrong in not going further, he should have stopped it then in there or should have went to the cops...without doing either of those things he's in the wrong...morally, and more so then Joe Pa.
</p>


Obviously not. Since Joe Pa passed it along like an email forward.</p>


<font color="#0000ff">Maybe he expected more from the most important man in PSU history.</font></p>
I don't understand why they can't grasp this?


because i don't expect more from someone just because they are bigger names. To be honest, I expected more out of the Janitor who SAW this happen and did nothing. Cover ups and lies from a football coach - if ur expecting something more then your just in denial

but either way - we were all arguing misinformed points. When the assistant coach informed Paterno, it was not about sexual misconduct.

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 04:50 PM
Obviously not. Since Joe Pa passed it along like an email forward.</p>


<font color="#0000FF">Maybe he expected more from the most important man in PSU history.</font></p>
I don't understand why they can't grasp this?


I don't understand why you can't grasp the fact that seeing something happen is different then having someone tell you about it...so we are even.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 04:52 PM
i just fail to see what popularity has to do with any aspect of this case

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 04:53 PM
LANDO


I completely agree. Joe Pa had a larger obligation. And I don't care if he's a mascot or not.

Do you agree with that.

do you think Joe Pa who heard the story from the witness, had a larger obligation to make sure this guy got what he deserved then the witness himself?

(morally?)

</p>


What I meant is that he had a larger obligation than to simply pass it on to the AD.</p>

Oh well that's fine.

All I'm arguing is that Calhoun and Mc whatever his name is the WR Coach are "More" morally wrong in this situation then Paterno is...not that Paterno is squeaky clean...but that those who actually witnessed the events take place have a larger moral responsibility then someone who was told about it.

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 04:53 PM
As the fate of Penn State football coach Joe Paterno (http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/joe-paterno-faces-growing-penn-state-scandal-14910253)
hangs in the balance, new details have emerged about how the university
failed to report the child sexual assaults allegedly committed by his
former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky.
</p>


According to prosecutors, Penn State had multiple opportunities to stop
Sandusky's alleged abuse. In 1998 two boys reportedly came forward to
say Sandusky had fondled them in the team's showers. Campus police had
eavesdropped on a conversation between Sandusky and one boy's mother.
That mother recently described the exchange to local reporter Sara Ganim
with the Patriot News.
</p>


"He admitted to taking the shower, he admitted to some extent something
bad happened," the woman, who was not identified, said. "He asked her
for forgiveness. He said 'I probably won't get it from you,' and then he
said 'I wish I were dead.'"
</p>The allegations against Sandusky include eight named victims who
have testified that the coach befriended them through the charitable
organization he founded, tried to mentor the boys, plied them with
gifts, trips to sporting events and access to the Penn State football
facilities, and then sexually assaulted them.



</p>

In 2002, <font color="#0000FF" size="4">graduate assistant coach</font> Mike McQueary allegedly saw Sandusky
in the shower of the football team's locker rooms sexually assaulting a
boy of about 10. McQueary told Paterno what he saw, and rather than tell
the police, Paterno reported the information to his boss, Curly, and
then never spoke of the incident again, according to a grand jury
presentment.
</p>Curly and his supervisor, Gary Schultz, did not report the incident to
police. They then told Spanier that Sandusky had been seen acting
inappropriately with a boy in the showers and had therefore restricted
his access to campus grounds. Spanier approved, and did not contact the
police.




</p>


</p>


</p>


</p>

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 04:55 PM
As the fate of Penn State football coach Joe Paterno (http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/joe-paterno-faces-growing-penn-state-scandal-14910253)
hangs in the balance, new details have emerged about how the university
failed to report the child sexual assaults allegedly committed by his
former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky.
</p>


According to prosecutors, Penn State had multiple opportunities to stop
Sandusky's alleged abuse. In 1998 two boys reportedly came forward to
say Sandusky had fondled them in the team's showers. Campus police had
eavesdropped on a conversation between Sandusky and one boy's mother.
That mother recently described the exchange to local reporter Sara Ganim
with the Patriot News.
</p>


"He admitted to taking the shower, he admitted to some extent something
bad happened," the woman, who was not identified, said. "He asked her
for forgiveness. He said 'I probably won't get it from you,' and then he
said 'I wish I were dead.'"
</p>The allegations against Sandusky include eight named victims who
have testified that the coach befriended them through the charitable
organization he founded, tried to mentor the boys, plied them with
gifts, trips to sporting events and access to the Penn State football
facilities, and then sexually assaulted them.



</p>

In 2002, <font color="#0000ff" size="4">graduate assistant coach</font> Mike McQueary allegedly saw Sandusky
in the shower of the football team's locker rooms sexually assaulting a
boy of about 10. McQueary told Paterno what he saw, and rather than tell
the police, Paterno reported the information to his boss, Curly, and
then never spoke of the incident again, according to a grand jury
presentment.
</p>Curly and his supervisor, Gary Schultz, did not report the incident to
police. They then told Spanier that Sandusky had been seen acting
inappropriately with a boy in the showers and had therefore restricted
his access to campus grounds. Spanier approved, and did not contact the
police.




</p>


</p>


</p>


</p>

that conflicts with what moorehead said about what McQueary saw

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 04:55 PM
i just fail to see what popularity has to do with any aspect of this case




Apparently for Morehead and Lando...Popularity means that you are held to a different moral standard then if you are relatively unknown.

I don't agree with that, I think everyone should be held to the same moral standards....I guess we are weird.

MattMeyerBud
11-09-2011, 04:58 PM
forget it i misread - it completely goes along with what moorehead said

my eyes are crossing

i got no work done today

i will talk to u guys later

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 05:02 PM
I'm not arguing that at all. I'm arguing that Joe Pa had a far greater responsibility that he took on by meerly passing it on to the AD, and then working alongside the guy after that.

I'm not disagreeing with that, but I can see after years of dealing with similar issues (and I'm quite certain he has maybe not on quite the same scale in retrospec but similar) he became jaded and said...welp time to send another complaint form to the AD...and that IS wrong....BUT..




I don't give 2 ****s about what an unknown temp. worker does.</p>

Not as wrong as this guy...who literally watched the crime take place...the fact that this guy didn't do everything in his power to make sure the Sandusky got what he deserves is morally reprehensible...it's many times worse then Joe Pa's indifference to a vague complaint.
</p>


</p>

DavenIII
11-09-2011, 05:03 PM
I'm out, I'm sure this will be continued tomorrow...later.

Morehead State
11-09-2011, 05:05 PM
i just fail to see what popularity has to do with any aspect of this case


</P>


Its not popularity, its standing. With great standing comes great responsibility.</P>

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 05:06 PM
i just fail to see what popularity has to do with any aspect of this case




Apparently for Morehead and Lando...Popularity means that you are held to a different moral standard then if you are relatively unknown.

I don't agree with that, I think everyone should be held to the same moral standards....I guess we are weird.

When your job is working with and mentoring kids. Establinshing foundations and building things that represent a University you do have a higher moral obligation. Athletes admit that all the time. I have to be better, I have kids that look up to me. I could find you countless quotes I'm sure. People in positions of power are held to a different standard than regular people. It's a fact of life, not a belief. Everyone should be held to the same moral standards but it's not the same in the real world. Joe Pa was told this was happening and turned his back to it along with many other people. There were 10's of warning signs and proof and no one did anything. Everyone is just as bad as the next guy but the most identifiable figure at Penn St will be held more accountable in a court of public opinion. Go read the comments on any ESPN story or any other site.

The issue is that Paterno should have also gone to the police. Telling
his bosses only did nothing more than relive him of his reporting
duties. He probably thought by telling his bossess only, it was their
baby now. Morally, he should have gone to authorities. He was made
aware of a crime and did not report it. How many other boys were abused
simply because he didn't report the crime?

Paterno is an extremely powerful man and could have demanded that
something so awful be addressed as the horrific crime that it is. He
knew, but turned away. He may be spared "legally", but the man is a
pathetic human being.

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 05:09 PM
i just fail to see what popularity has to do with any aspect of this case


</p>


Its not popularity, its standing. With great standing comes great responsibility.</p>
How do they not understand that?

The leader of Penn St is held to a higher standard and responsibility than a Janitor.

No one protected those poor kids...

Morehead State
11-09-2011, 05:13 PM
i just fail to see what popularity has to do with any aspect of this case


</P>


Its not popularity, its standing. With great standing comes great responsibility.</P>



How do they not understand that?

The leader of Penn St is held to a higher standard and responsibility than a Janitor.

No one protected those poor kids...
</P>


I don't know Lando. Itis interesting that its the two parents on one side and two non parents on the other.</P>


Not sure if that'r relevant or not.</P>

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 05:54 PM
Does Paterno have grandkids? (Yes, 17.) How would he feel if it were one
of his grandkids in that shower with the coach? What would he have done
then?

byron
11-09-2011, 08:02 PM
Does Paterno have grandkids? (Yes, 17.) How would he feel if it were one of his grandkids in that shower with the coach? What would he have done then?

Not taking action against this **** is a crimein not doing so theyaided and abeded him to continue molesting god knows how many children ..lock'em all up.. bunch of losers and JP heads the list.. imo..I'm pretty sure I would have got that **** of thatkid either with myhands or a mop handle up his ***... but hey one can never be sure how they would handle such a thing till it happens...but I'm pretty sureI ain't standing there watching......what a nasty ****ing subject.....</P>


on a side note I got players!!! ;) here is the deal I'd move some of them for a RB2 type player no guarentees I see a trade I like I'll take its really simple I don't like to barter somake your best offer yourfirst....I know thats notfun butswhat can I tell ya... thats the way I am....I also will understandif nobody wants to play that way... no problem....just putting it out there thatI ain't hiding under a rock I'm sitting on it....help me help you ;)</P>


some one said Iwon't trade...he'dbe wrong</P>


so I'll leave it at this I'm going to shut up and play thegame therest of the way....good luck down the stretch everybody !</P>


ps I have used every player on my current roster "except for bennett"multiple times</P>

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 10:56 PM
One key question has been why Paterno and other top school officials
didn't go to police in 2002 after being told a graduate assistant saw
Sandusky assaulting a boy in a school shower.</p>

"I am absolutely
devastated by the developments in this case. I grieve for the children
and their families, and I pray for their comfort and relief,"
"<font color="#0000FF">This is a tragedy,</font>" Paterno said in a statement earlier Wednesday.<font color="#0000FF"> "It
is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I
wish I had done more."</font></p>


</p>

"If it turns out that some people at the school knew of the abuse and did
nothing or covered it up (which we already know, she just has to say that), that makes it even worse. <font color="#0000FF">Schools and school officials have a legal
and moral responsibility to protect children and young people from
violence and abuse."</font> U.S. Education Secretary Arne Duncan said.
</p>


</p>

<font color="#0000FF">"There are the obligations we all have to uphold the law. There are then
the obligations we all have to do what is right,"</font> the editorial board
wrote about Penn State President Graham Spanier's role in the sex abuse
scandal, along with Paterno's.</p>

Pennsylvania state police commissioner
Frank Noonan said Monday in Harrisburg that Paterno fulfilled his legal
requirement when he relayed to university administrators that a graduate
assistant had seen Sandusky attacking a young boy in the team's locker
room shower in 2002. But the commissioner also questioned whether
Paterno had a moral responsibility to do more.</p>

<font color="#0000FF">"Somebody has to
question about what I would consider the moral requirements for a human
being that knows of sexual things that are taking place with a child,"
Noonan said.</font></p>

<font color="#0000FF">"I think you have the moral responsibility, anyone.
Not whether you're a football coach or a university president or the guy
sweeping the building. I think you have a moral responsibility to call
us."</font></p>

Paterno has referred to his grand jury testimony in which he
testified that he was informed by a graduate assistant that he had
witnessed an incident in the shower of the team locker room. Prosecutors
have said Paterno passed on the information to Curley.</p>

But Paterno said specific actions alleged to have occurred in the grand jury report were not relayed to him.</p>

<font color="#0000FF">"It
was obvious that the witness was distraught over what he saw, but he at
no time related to me the very specific actions contained in the grand
jury report," </font>Paterno said in the statement. "<font color="#0000FF">Regardless, it was clear
that the witness saw something inappropriate involving Mr. Sandusky.</font> As
coach Sandusky was retired from our coaching staff at that time, I
referred the matter to university administrators."</p>

<font color="#0000FF">Then they just turned their back on all those victims. <font color="#000000">He is basically saying, I knew something terrible was happening and I reported it so I'm off the hook. </font>
</font></p>

bigblue4417
11-09-2011, 11:12 PM
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2011/1107/espn_e_Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf

Here is the real ****. I will caution you, it is EXTREMELY graphic and disgusting. That Sandusky guy is about as close to the devil as you can get in my eyes. Schulz is terrible also. He covered the whole damn thing up. Joe Pa did what he was supposed to legally. But he knew all this was happening and said nothing to the police. He let it go. It's horrible. Everyone else lied about it to. This story is probably one of the worst things that will ever happen in sports and Penn St is tarnished forever. I would hate to say I even knew that guy let alone have been mentored by him. Joe Pa knew that **** happened and didn't say **** once no one did anything. So did the coach, I get that but that is Joseph Paterno!

Read that Matt and Daven. Then tell me what you think?

"Can they say 'Success with Honor' anymore?" asked Rebecca Durst, owner
of Rinaldo's Barber Shop, a fixture in State College since 1926.

ny06
11-09-2011, 11:14 PM
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2011/1107/espn_e_Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf

Here is the real ****. I will caution you, it is EXTREMELY graphic and disgusting. That Sandusky guy is about as close to the devil as you can get in my eyes. Schulz is terrible also. He covered the whole damn thing up. Joe Pa did what he was supposed to legally. But he knew all this was happening and said nothing to the police. He let it go. It's horrible. Everyone else lied about it to. This story is probably one of the worst things that will ever happen in sports and Penn St is tarnished forever. I would hate to say I even knew that guy let alone have been mentored by him. Joe Pa knew that **** happened and didn't say **** once no one did anything. So did the coach, I get that but that is Joseph Paterno!

Read that Matt and Daven. Then tell me what you think?

"Can they say 'Success with Honor' anymore?" asked Rebecca Durst, owner of Rinaldo's Barber Shop, a fixture in State College since 1926.
</P>


I read that today. </P>


He's a monster....</P>

Morehead State
11-10-2011, 08:20 AM
Does Paterno have grandkids? (Yes, 17.) How would he feel if it were one of his grandkids in that shower with the coach? What would he have done then?

Not taking action against this **** is a crimein not doing so theyaided and abeded him to continue molesting god knows how many children ..lock'em all up.. bunch of losers and JP heads the list.. imo..I'm pretty sure I would have got that **** of thatkid either with myhands or a mop handle up his ***... but hey one can never be sure how they would handle such a thing till it happens...but I'm pretty sureI ain't standing there watching......what a nasty ****ing subject.....</P>


on a side note I got players!!! ;) here is the deal I'd move some of them for a RB2 type player no guarentees I see a trade I like I'll take its really simple I don't like to barter somake your best offer yourfirst....I know thats notfun butswhat can I tell ya... thats the way I am....I also will understandif nobody wants to play that way... no problem....just putting it out there thatI ain't hiding under a rock I'm sitting on it....help me help you ;)</P>


some one said Iwon't trade...he'dbe wrong</P>


so I'll leave it at this I'm going to shut up and play thegame therest of the way....good luck down the stretch everybody !</P>


</P>


I love it when Byron talks smack.</P>


"Help me help you"!!!! Thats friggin awesome.</P>

JPizzack
11-10-2011, 08:42 AM
morning *****esssss!

lttaylor56
11-10-2011, 08:48 AM
Does Paterno have grandkids? (Yes, 17.) How would he feel if it were one of his grandkids in that shower with the coach? What would he have done then?

Not taking action against this **** is a crimein not doing so theyaided and abeded him to continue molesting god knows how many children ..lock'em all up.. bunch of losers and JP heads the list.. imo..I'm pretty sure I would have got that **** of thatkid either with myhands or a mop handle up his ***... but hey one can never be sure how they would handle such a thing till it happens...but I'm pretty sureI ain't standing there watching......what a nasty ****ing subject.....</p>


on a side note I got players!!! ;) here is the deal I'd move some of them for a RB2 type player no guarentees I see a trade I like I'll take its really simple I don't like to barter somake your best offer yourfirst....I know thats notfun butswhat can I tell ya... thats the way I am....I also will understandif nobody wants to play that way... no problem....just putting it out there thatI ain't hiding under a rock I'm sitting on it....help me help you ;)</p>


some one said Iwon't trade...he'dbe wrong</p>


so I'll leave it at this I'm going to shut up and play thegame therest of the way....good luck down the stretch everybody !</p>


</p>


I love it when Byron talks smack.</p>


"Help me help you"!!!! Thats friggin awesome.</p>Jerry McGuire

lttaylor56
11-10-2011, 08:52 AM
morning *****esssss!Morning JPizznatch! What's cooking?

lttaylor56
11-10-2011, 09:03 AM
So Paterno is no more. I think he would of coached until he dropped, wild horses were not going to pull him out of there. It's a shame, they should of allowed him a press conference, resign and step down that way.

lttaylor56
11-10-2011, 09:08 AM
What is all this crap about Steve Smith returning?

JPizzack
11-10-2011, 09:14 AM
morning *****esssss!Morning JPizznatch! What's cooking?
</P>


nothing much...just practicing the DENNIS system of seducing women...
it's simple really...

<FONT size=6>D</FONT>emonstrate value
<FONT size=6>E</FONT>ngagephysically
<FONT size=6>N</FONT>urture Dependance
<FONT size=6>N</FONT>eglect emotionally
<FONT size=6>I</FONT>nspire hope
<FONT size=6>S</FONT>eperate entirely</P>

Morehead State
11-10-2011, 09:20 AM
morning *****esssss!Morning JPizznatch! What's cooking?
</P>


nothing much...just practicing the DENNIS system of seducing women...
it's simple really...

<FONT size=6>D</FONT>emonstrate value
<FONT size=6>E</FONT>ngagephysically
<FONT size=6>N</FONT>urture Dependance
<FONT size=6>N</FONT>eglect emotionally
<FONT size=6>I</FONT>nspire hope
<FONT size=6>S</FONT>eperate entirely</P>


</P>


I guess the "be yourself" system wasn't working. I can see that.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-10-2011, 09:28 AM
What is all this crap about Steve Smith returning?


i think it could happen if we don't resign mario.

But personally I think Smith would be a perfect fit in Carolina

lttaylor56
11-10-2011, 09:31 AM
morning *****esssss!Morning JPizznatch! What's cooking?
</p>


nothing much...just practicing the DENNIS system of seducing women...
it's simple really...

<font size="6">D</font>emonstrate value
<font size="6">E</font>ngagephysically
<font size="6">N</font>urture Dependance
<font size="6">N</font>eglect emotionally
<font size="6">I</font>nspire hope
<font size="6">S</font>eperate entirely</p>Who is this getting practiced on at work? ha. Here's what I find to be most important.

<font color="#0000FF">PERCEPTION:</font> Key Ingredient: Whether it's good or bad-that's the vibe the woman will receive from you. Actors are great at this. Potential suitor says about Justin: "JP is such a great guy-He's always positive and finding the bright side of things. I want to spend time with a guy that makes me feel good like that"

D-I agree with. Demonstrate and build your value--nothing more important that demonstrating a positive outlook. Also very important is the way that you react to problems, and NEGATIVE news.
Majority of times this is my nature anyway-but very important. Spin everything into a positive.

Keep in mind, when presented with a problem, most women do not analyze every single detail that will be needed in order solve or correct the problem...that's a man thing. So don't burden them with that...they don't want to know about what it takes to fix it.

<font color="#0000FF">Sexual Tension</font>: This when used correctly at the right times is awesome. First you establish your value as above-next you push her buttons. This works really well for you single guy's.....once kids are running all over the house and they have sports schedules, appts, etc.--you have to create and store tension for a later time. Maybe 50% of the time you get lucky.

lttaylor56
11-10-2011, 09:32 AM
morning *****esssss!Morning JPizznatch! What's cooking?
</p>


nothing much...just practicing the DENNIS system of seducing women...
it's simple really...

<font size="6">D</font>emonstrate value
<font size="6">E</font>ngagephysically
<font size="6">N</font>urture Dependance
<font size="6">N</font>eglect emotionally
<font size="6">I</font>nspire hope
<font size="6">S</font>eperate entirely</p>


</p>


I guess the "be yourself" system wasn't working. I can see that.</p>lol-You only be yourself with the one you want to marry--These guy's are having fun MH....remember those days? I barely do.

Morehead State
11-10-2011, 09:35 AM
morning *****esssss!Morning JPizznatch! What's cooking?
</P>


nothing much...just practicing the DENNIS system of seducing women...
it's simple really...

<FONT size=6>D</FONT>emonstrate value
<FONT size=6>E</FONT>ngagephysically
<FONT size=6>N</FONT>urture Dependance
<FONT size=6>N</FONT>eglect emotionally
<FONT size=6>I</FONT>nspire hope
<FONT size=6>S</FONT>eperate entirely</P>


Who is this getting practiced on at work? ha. Here's what I find to be most important.

<FONT color=#0000ff>PERCEPTION:</FONT> Key Ingredient: Whether it's good or bad-that's the vibe the woman will receive from you. Actors are great at this. Potential suitor says about Justin: <FONT size=4>"JP is such a great guy-He's always positive and finding the bright side of things. I want to spend time with a guy that makes me feel good like that"

</FONT>D-I agree with. Demonstrate and build your value--nothing more important that demonstrating a positive outlook. Also very important is the way that you react to problems, and NEGATIVE news.
Majority of times this is my nature anyway-but very important. Spin everything into a positive.

Keep in mind, when presented with a problem, most women do not analyze every single detail that will be needed in order solve or correct the problem...that's a man thing. So don't burden them with that...they don't want to know about what it takes to fix it.

<FONT color=#0000ff>Sexual Tension</FONT>: This when used correctly at the right times is awesome. First you establish your value as above-next you push her buttons. This works really well for you single guy's.....once kids are running all over the house and they have sports schedules, appts, etc.--you have to create and store tension for a later time. Maybe 50% of the time you get lucky.


</P>


In other words........JP being himself won't work.</P>


</P>

Morehead State
11-10-2011, 09:37 AM
morning *****esssss!Morning JPizznatch! What's cooking?
</P>


nothing much...just practicing the DENNIS system of seducing women...
it's simple really...

<FONT size=6>D</FONT>emonstrate value
<FONT size=6>E</FONT>ngagephysically
<FONT size=6>N</FONT>urture Dependance
<FONT size=6>N</FONT>eglect emotionally
<FONT size=6>I</FONT>nspire hope
<FONT size=6>S</FONT>eperate entirely</P>


</P>


I guess the "be yourself" system wasn't working. I can see that.</P>


lol-You only be yourself with the one you want to marry--These guy's are having fun MH....remember those days? I barely do.
</P>


I guess if you objective is to get laid, I agree. If your objective is to have a meaningfull life with quality relationships...I disagree.</P>

ny06
11-10-2011, 09:38 AM
So Paterno is no more. I think he would of coached until he dropped, wild horses were not going to pull him out of there. <FONT color=#0000ff>It's a shame, they should of allowed him a press conference, resign and step down that way.
</FONT></P>


You can't be serious?</P>


They could not have fired him quick enough. </P>

lttaylor56
11-10-2011, 09:39 AM
morning *****esssss!Morning JPizznatch! What's cooking?
</p>


nothing much...just practicing the DENNIS system of seducing women...
it's simple really...

<font size="6">D</font>emonstrate value
<font size="6">E</font>ngagephysically
<font size="6">N</font>urture Dependance
<font size="6">N</font>eglect emotionally
<font size="6">I</font>nspire hope
<font size="6">S</font>eperate entirely</p>


</p>


I guess the "be yourself" system wasn't working. I can see that.</p>


lol-You only be yourself with the one you want to marry--These guy's are having fun MH....remember those days? I barely do.
</p>


I guess if you objective is to get laid, I agree. If your objective is to have a meaningfull life with quality relationships...I disagree.</p>I do concurr with that Sir. My advice is purely for a bachelor playing the field. After he get's her, if he likes her ---he can of course try being himself.

Morehead State
11-10-2011, 09:41 AM
morning *****esssss!Morning JPizznatch! What's cooking?
</P>


nothing much...just practicing the DENNIS system of seducing women...
it's simple really...

<FONT size=6>D</FONT>emonstrate value
<FONT size=6>E</FONT>ngagephysically
<FONT size=6>N</FONT>urture Dependance
<FONT size=6>N</FONT>eglect emotionally
<FONT size=6>I</FONT>nspire hope
<FONT size=6>S</FONT>eperate entirely</P>


</P>


I guess the "be yourself" system wasn't working. I can see that.</P>


lol-You only be yourself with the one you want to marry--These guy's are having fun MH....remember those days? I barely do.
</P>


I guess if you objective is to get laid, I agree. If your objective is to have a meaningfull life with quality relationships...I disagree.</P>


I do concurr with that Sir. My advice is purely for a bachelor playing the field. After he get's her, if he likes her ---he can of course try being himself.
</P>


Yes I get it. JP needs a good woman. Maybe he should just allow the natural metrosexual in him to come out.</P>

JPizzack
11-10-2011, 09:42 AM
lol..guys, it's a shtick from the show "Always Sunny in Philadelphia"....Dennis is one of the characters, he considers himself a playboy.

anywaaaaaay.....

lttaylor56
11-10-2011, 09:42 AM
So Paterno is no more. I think he would of coached until he dropped, wild horses were not going to pull him out of there. <font color="#0000ff">It's a shame, they should of allowed him a press conference, resign and step down that way.
</font></p>


You can't be serious?</p>


They could not have fired him quick enough. </p>I dunno-give him the opportunity to state to the public that he used improper judgement, wrong choices, mistake, sincerely apologize, yada-yada-yada. Then step down with some dignity.

ny06
11-10-2011, 09:45 AM
So Paterno is no more. I think he would of coached until he dropped, wild horses were not going to pull him out of there. <FONT color=#0000ff>It's a shame, they should of allowed him a press conference, resign and step down that way.
</FONT></P>


You can't be serious?</P>


They could not have fired him quick enough. </P>


I dunno-give him the opportunity to state to the public that he used improper judgement, wrong choices, mistake, sincerely apologize, yada-yada-yada. Then step down with some dignity.
</P>


He has no dignity. </P>


And I don't want to hear what this senile old man has to say. </P>


He will just say the typical response he has been giving, "I wish I did more" Really Joe? You did nothing....</P>


</P>

Morehead State
11-10-2011, 09:46 AM
lol..guys, it's a shtick from the show "Always Sunny in Philadelphia"....Dennis is one of the characters, he considers himself a playboy.

anywaaaaaay.....</P>


Its OK Pizz.....We know the unspoken truth in your post. Give us a hug.</P>

dezzzR
11-10-2011, 09:47 AM
lol..guys, it's a shtick from the show "Always Sunny in Philadelphia"....Dennis is one of the characters, he considers himself a playboy.

anywaaaaaay.....that episode was funny. "and after im done with them i give em to frank, you should see him fest, hes like a mantis."

Morehead State
11-10-2011, 09:49 AM
So Paterno is no more. I think he would of coached until he dropped, wild horses were not going to pull him out of there. <FONT color=#0000ff>It's a shame, they should of allowed him a press conference, resign and step down that way.
</FONT></P>


You can't be serious?</P>


They could not have fired him quick enough. </P>


I dunno-give him the opportunity to state to the public that he used improper judgement, wrong choices, mistake, sincerely apologize, yada-yada-yada. Then step down with some dignity.
</P>


He has no dignity. </P>


And I don't want to hear what this senile old man has to say. </P>


He will just say the typical response he has been giving, "I wish I did more" Really Joe? You did nothing....</P>


</P>


</P>


He should have resigned immediately yesterday instead of forcing the school to do it for him. He is completely out of touch with the seriousness of this.</P>


He could have prevented more kids from being victimized. For some reason his ego won't allow him to come to grips with this.</P>


Maybe his age is getting the best of him.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-10-2011, 09:50 AM
So Paterno is no more. I think he would of coached until he dropped, wild horses were not going to pull him out of there. <font color="#0000ff">It's a shame, they should of allowed him a press conference, resign and step down that way.
</font></p>


You can't be serious?</p>


They could not have fired him quick enough. </p>

u do realize he wasn't the one who actually raped the kid and he wasn't the one the witnessed the rape, chose not to stop it, and never went to the police --- right?

JPizzack
11-10-2011, 09:51 AM
lol..guys, it's a shtick from the show "Always Sunny in Philadelphia"....Dennis is one of the characters, he considers himself a playboy.

anywaaaaaay.....that episode was funny. "and after im done with them i give em to frank, you should see him fest, hes like a mantis."
</P>


lmao...
"I get the scraps!"
"ooooh mantis! yea yea call me that!!"</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-10-2011, 09:51 AM
So Paterno is no more. I think he would of coached until he dropped, wild horses were not going to pull him out of there. <font color="#0000ff">It's a shame, they should of allowed him a press conference, resign and step down that way.
</font></p>


You can't be serious?</p>


They could not have fired him quick enough. </p>I dunno-give him the opportunity to state to the public that he used improper judgement, wrong choices, mistake, sincerely apologize, yada-yada-yada. Then step down with some dignity.


he does have that outlet whenever he wants though...

he could have a press conference from his front porch - i just doubt he would want that

MattMeyerBud
11-10-2011, 09:53 AM
So Paterno is no more. I think he would of coached until he dropped, wild horses were not going to pull him out of there. <font color="#0000ff">It's a shame, they should of allowed him a press conference, resign and step down that way.
</font></p>


You can't be serious?</p>


They could not have fired him quick enough. </p>


I dunno-give him the opportunity to state to the public that he used improper judgement, wrong choices, mistake, sincerely apologize, yada-yada-yada. Then step down with some dignity.
</p>


He has no dignity. </p>


And I don't want to hear what this senile old man has to say. </p>


He will just say the typical response he has been giving, "I wish I did more" Really Joe? You did nothing....</p>


</p>

hindsight is awlays 20/20

what u should be more disgusted with is McQeaury (the guy who made no attempt to stop it after he actually saw the rape take place and never contacted the police) is still working at penn state

ny06
11-10-2011, 09:53 AM
So Paterno is no more. I think he would of coached until he dropped, wild horses were not going to pull him out of there. <FONT color=#0000ff>It's a shame, they should of allowed him a press conference, resign and step down that way.
</FONT></P>


You can't be serious?</P>


They could not have fired him quick enough. </P>




u do realize he wasn't the one who actually raped the kid and he wasn't the one the witnessed the rape, chose not to stop it, and never went to the police --- right?


</P>


And you do realize he was told by not one person, but two about what was going on. </P>


And I guess speaking to your higher ups is more important then doing the right thing, going to the police. </P>


Have you seen the interviews with Joe Paterno? It made me sick to see his responses, and then he gave the Penn State rally call?? Pathetic!!!!</P>


edit: There all <U>scum</U> in my eyes Matt...</P>

byron
11-10-2011, 09:54 AM
So Paterno is no more. I think he would of coached until he dropped, wild horses were not going to pull him out of there. <FONT color=#0000ff>It's a shame, they should of allowed him a press conference, resign and step down that way.
</FONT></P>


You can't be serious?</P>


They could not have fired him quick enough. </P>I dunno-give him the opportunity to state to the public that he used improper judgement, wrong choices, mistake, sincerely apologize, yada-yada-yada. Then step down with some dignity.
Didn't he do that yesterday when he said he would be stepping after the football season...just saying LT....Penn State done the right thing by firing him imo....

MattMeyerBud
11-10-2011, 09:55 AM
So Paterno is no more. I think he would of coached until he dropped, wild horses were not going to pull him out of there. <font color="#0000ff">It's a shame, they should of allowed him a press conference, resign and step down that way.
</font></p>


You can't be serious?</p>


They could not have fired him quick enough. </p>


I dunno-give him the opportunity to state to the public that he used improper judgement, wrong choices, mistake, sincerely apologize, yada-yada-yada. Then step down with some dignity.
</p>


He has no dignity. </p>


And I don't want to hear what this senile old man has to say. </p>


He will just say the typical response he has been giving, "I wish I did more" Really Joe? You did nothing....</p>


</p>


</p>


He should have resigned immediately yesterday instead of forcing the school to do it for him. He is completely out of touch with the seriousness of this.</p>


He could have prevented more kids from being victimized. For some reason his ego won't allow him to come to grips with this.</p>


Maybe his age is getting the best of him.</p>

i just love pappys view point on this - next time I see a rape i'm going to contact Derek Jeter so he can handle the situation. I mean he has power in NY

Morehead State
11-10-2011, 09:55 AM
So Paterno is no more. I think he would of coached until he dropped, wild horses were not going to pull him out of there. <FONT color=#0000ff>It's a shame, they should of allowed him a press conference, resign and step down that way.
</FONT></P>


You can't be serious?</P>


They could not have fired him quick enough. </P>




u do realize he wasn't the one who actually raped the kid and he wasn't the one the witnessed the rape, chose not to stop it, and never went to the police --- right?


</P>


No one would suggest he is anywhere near as guilty as the POS who did this. But the bottom line is that he could have prevented further abuse and he turned a blind eye. It was disgraceful.</P>


Whats interesting is that the parents in our group (Me, Lando, NY06 and Byron) think he should be fired, and the non parents (Matt and Scrappy) don't.</P>


Not sure if thats significant or not.</P>

MattMeyerBud
11-10-2011, 09:56 AM
lol..guys, it's a shtick from the show "Always Sunny in Philadelphia"....Dennis is one of the characters, he considers himself a playboy.

anywaaaaaay.....that episode was funny. "and after im done with them i give em to frank, you should see him fest, hes like a mantis."


i refuse to watch that show just because it has Philadelphia in its na,me

MattMeyerBud
11-10-2011, 09:57 AM
So Paterno is no more. I think he would of coached until he dropped, wild horses were not going to pull him out of there. <font color="#0000ff">It's a shame, they should of allowed him a press conference, resign and step down that way.
</font></p>


You can't be serious?</p>


They could not have fired him quick enough. </p>




u do realize he wasn't the one who actually raped the kid and he wasn't the one the witnessed the rape, chose not to stop it, and never went to the police --- right?


</p>


No one would suggest he is anywhere near as guilty as the POS who did this. But the bottom line is that he could have prevented further abuse and he turned a blind eye. It was disgraceful.</p>


Whats interesting is that the parents in our group (Me, Lando, NY06 and Byron) think he should be fired, and the non parents (Matt and Scrappy) don't.</p>


Not sure if thats significant or not.</p>

further proof u don't actually read what we say and u just respond

ny06
11-10-2011, 09:57 AM
So Paterno is no more. I think he would of coached until he dropped, wild horses were not going to pull him out of there. <FONT color=#0000ff>It's a shame, they should of allowed him a press conference, resign and step down that way.
</FONT></P>


You can't be serious?</P>


They could not have fired him quick enough. </P>




u do realize he wasn't the one who actually raped the kid and he wasn't the one the witnessed the rape, chose not to stop it, and never went to the police --- right?


</P>


No one would suggest he is anywhere near as guilty as the POS who did this. But the bottom line is that he could have prevented further abuse and he turned a blind eye. It was disgraceful.</P>


<FONT color=#0000ff>Whats interesting is that the parents in our group (Me, Lando, NY06 and Byron) think he should be fired, and the non parents (Matt and Scrappy) don't.</FONT></P>


Not sure if thats significant or not.</P>


</P>


Great Point..</P>

Morehead State
11-10-2011, 09:58 AM
So Paterno is no more. I think he would of coached until he dropped, wild horses were not going to pull him out of there. <FONT color=#0000ff>It's a shame, they should of allowed him a press conference, resign and step down that way.
</FONT></P>


You can't be serious?</P>


They could not have fired him quick enough. </P>


I dunno-give him the opportunity to state to the public that he used improper judgement, wrong choices, mistake, sincerely apologize, yada-yada-yada. Then step down with some dignity.
</P>


He has no dignity. </P>


And I don't want to hear what this senile old man has to say. </P>


He will just say the typical response he has been giving, "I wish I did more" Really Joe? You did nothing....</P>


</P>


</P>


He should have resigned immediately yesterday instead of forcing the school to do it for him. He is completely out of touch with the seriousness of this.</P>


He could have prevented more kids from being victimized. For some reason his ego won't allow him to come to grips with this.</P>


Maybe his age is getting the best of him.</P>




i just love pappys view point on this - next time I see a rape i'm going to contact Derek Jeter so he can handle the situation. I mean he has power in NY
</P>


You are generally a very insightful and thoughtful poster. This comment is not a good example of that.</P>

Morehead State
11-10-2011, 10:00 AM
So Paterno is no more. I think he would of coached until he dropped, wild horses were not going to pull him out of there. <FONT color=#0000ff>It's a shame, they should of allowed him a press conference, resign and step down that way.
</FONT></P>


You can't be serious?</P>


They could not have fired him quick enough. </P>




u do realize he wasn't the one who actually raped the kid and he wasn't the one the witnessed the rape, chose not to stop it, and never went to the police --- right?


</P>


No one would suggest he is anywhere near as guilty as the POS who did this. But the bottom line is that he could have prevented further abuse and he turned a blind eye. It was disgraceful.</P>


Whats interesting is that the parents in our group (Me, Lando, NY06 and Byron) think he should be fired, and the non parents (Matt and Scrappy) don't.</P>


Not sure if thats significant or not.</P>




further proof u don't actually read what we say and u just respond
</P>


You spent a lot of time yesterday defending him Matt. Saying that since he "reported to high ups" he did the right thing. If your view is different than that, I welcome it.</P>

lttaylor56
11-10-2011, 10:00 AM
So Paterno is no more. I think he would of coached until he dropped, wild horses were not going to pull him out of there. <font color="#0000ff">It's a shame, they should of allowed him a press conference, resign and step down that way.
</font></p>


You can't be serious?</p>


They could not have fired him quick enough. </p>

u do realize he wasn't the one who actually raped the kid and he wasn't the one the witnessed the rape, chose not to stop it, and never went to the police --- right?


I know nothing he says or does will take away the pain and harm that came to those kids, but my opinion is that he acted accordingly by notifying his superior of the incident that he was made aware of by another party. Where he failed was by not following up on the progress of the case with his superiors or the authorities.

lttaylor56
11-10-2011, 10:00 AM
So Paterno is no more. I think he would of coached until he dropped, wild horses were not going to pull him out of there. <font color="#0000ff">It's a shame, they should of allowed him a press conference, resign and step down that way.
</font></p>


You can't be serious?</p>


They could not have fired him quick enough. </p>

u do realize he wasn't the one who actually raped the kid and he wasn't the one the witnessed the rape, chose not to stop it, and never went to the police --- right?


I know nothing he says or does will take away the pain and harm that came to those kids, but my opinion is that he acted accordingly by notifying his superior of the incident that he was made aware of by another party. Where he failed was by not following up on the progress of the case with his superiors or the authorities.