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Morehead State
02-28-2012, 04:58 PM
Also I just saw a claim recently.

it said the average cost per month for healthcare in Mass (which has done what Obama care is supposed to do just on a state level)

600$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 50 Days - Boston

it was compared to Atlanta which is a more "average" health care system.

200$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 11 Days - Atlanta

so why is the statewide healthcare plan in Mass considered a success if it's increasing cost and lowering quality of care...and if that's the case why did Obama base his plan off that one...and is that what we can all expect for everyone once it starts being implemented on a federal level?
</P>


I live in Mass Daven. I call my doctor at 9:00 and he can see me no later than 11:00. All the Mass. HC law does is insure the small minority that aren't insured now. It has absolutely NO EFFECT on the 95% of people who already have insurance.</P>


My insurance is great actually. We have a low deductable and no co pay. Its because we have good insurance through the market system.</P>


I have no idea where these numbers of yours come from. I live here.</P>




Hmm well I guess I'm glad to hear that, do you know anyone who doesn't have their own market based Insurance that uses the states?

I mean I'm hoping that the personal mandate (fine/tax thing) get's ruled unconstitutional all the way through the court system because I believe Obama care hinges on that correct?

I wonder though since you live in Mass (and I know you like Romney) are you ok with a national healthcare plan obviously not Obama care but any national health care plan I mean.
</P>


I am definately NOT OK with a national healthcare mandate of any kind and I also hope the Supreme Court rules the mandate unconstitutional. The constitution gives certain power to the Congress but it all specifically limits the power of the Federal Gov. as well. The notion that the Federal Government (and we are a "federal" government of states) can force a private citizen to buy health insurance is repugnant to me.</P>


</P>

DavenIII
02-28-2012, 05:07 PM
hixon close to signing with gmen

pappy and pizz.... discuss


Time to go home, have fun with your very beginning of the off-season moves talk :P

bigblue4417
02-28-2012, 05:31 PM
<span class="storyBody">


When pitcher A.J. Burnett was traded to the Pittsburgh
Pirates from the New York Yankees he wanted to keep his
No. 34, but unfortunately for him new teammate Daniel
McCutchen already had the number.
</p></span>



<span class="storyBody">

<p style="padding:0px; ">
As is customary, players will "buy" the number from a
teammate usually in the form of a pricey watch, an
expensive trip to Hawaii or Europe or just straight cash.
</p>


But McCutchen asked for something totally unique... a
College America 529 plan for his unborn daughter, due in
May.
</p>


College 529s are like IRAs and 401(k)s; they're a tax-free
college savings that allow parents to begin saving/earning
early instead of dropping a large chunk of change when the
kids enter college.
</p>


Sounds like a gift (or price) that'll keep on giving.
</p></span>

JPizzack
02-28-2012, 06:29 PM
hixon close to signing with gmen

pappy and pizz.... discuss


I think it's a good idea. Good insurance policy, but at what price does it become a bad deal?

It's hard to justify spending more than a million a year on the guy, right?

dezzzR
02-28-2012, 06:30 PM
http://external.ak.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQATVR7gplawSJcJ&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2 Fi3.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2F2nXJe9i70DE%2Fhqdefault.jpg
"E.L.E!!!!! EVERYBODY LOVE EVERBODY!!!!!!"

JPizzack
02-28-2012, 06:35 PM
Also I just saw a claim recently.

it said the average cost per month for healthcare in Mass (which has done what Obama care is supposed to do just on a state level)

600$ Month -* Average wait for an appointment 50 Days - Boston

it was compared to Atlanta which is a more "average" health care system.

200$ Month -* Average wait for an appointment 11 Days - Atlanta

so why is the statewide healthcare plan in Mass considered a success if it's increasing cost and lowering quality of care...and if that's the case why did Obama base his plan off that one...and is that what we can all expect for everyone once it starts being implemented on a federal level?
</P>


I live in Mass Daven. I call my doctor at 9:00 and he can see me no later than 11:00.* All the Mass. HC law does is insure the small minority that aren't insured now.* It has absolutely NO EFFECT on the 95% of people who already have insurance.</P>


My insurance is great actually.* We have a low deductable and no co pay.* Its because we have good insurance through the market system.</P>


I have no idea where these numbers of yours come from.* I live here.</P>

I've never even heard of that. That number is simply for the Obamacare he's quoting, right?

I love my insurance, and my company has done a kickass job of making sure we don't get cornholed on the premiums. little to no copays, free prescription drugs basically. My one gripe is with dental coverage, but i've never heard anyone say they like their dental insurance.

Morehead State
02-28-2012, 06:41 PM
Also I just saw a claim recently.

it said the average cost per month for healthcare in Mass (which has done what Obama care is supposed to do just on a state level)

600$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 50 Days - Boston

it was compared to Atlanta which is a more "average" health care system.

200$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 11 Days - Atlanta

so why is the statewide healthcare plan in Mass considered a success if it's increasing cost and lowering quality of care...and if that's the case why did Obama base his plan off that one...and is that what we can all expect for everyone once it starts being implemented on a federal level?
</P>


I live in Mass Daven. I call my doctor at 9:00 and he can see me no later than 11:00. All the Mass. HC law does is insure the small minority that aren't insured now. It has absolutely NO EFFECT on the 95% of people who already have insurance.</P>


My insurance is great actually. We have a low deductable and no co pay. Its because we have good insurance through the market system.</P>


I have no idea where these numbers of yours come from. I live here.</P>


I've never even heard of that. That number is simply for the Obamacare he's quoting, right? I love my insurance, and my company has done a kickass job of making sure we don't get cornholed on the premiums. little to no copays, free prescription drugs basically. My one gripe is with dental coverage, but i've never heard anyone say they like their dental insurance.</P>


I have great dental insurance.</P>

JPizzack
02-28-2012, 06:58 PM
I have great dental insurance.</P>

I dont know what to compare mine to really. I just think it's strange that if I ever needed say, surgery on my shoulder, it's significantly cheaper than having my wisdom teeth pulled.

JPizzack
02-29-2012, 08:48 AM
Today doesn't really exist.

Feel free to just not show up to work. It won't matter tmrw anyway.
Enjoy!

MattMeyerBud
02-29-2012, 09:09 AM
pizz-

i heard you say that pappys momma is so fat that when she wears her Malcom X jacket a helicopter lands on her back...

any truth to this?

MattMeyerBud
02-29-2012, 09:10 AM
pappy -

i heard you say that pizz's momma is so fat that when she sits on a rainbow, it starts raining skittles

any truth to this?

MattMeyerBud
02-29-2012, 09:12 AM
ROUND 2:

http://sixuntilme.com/blog-mt1/images/January07/mills_lane_fight.jpg

MattMeyerBud
02-29-2012, 09:17 AM
Also I just saw a claim recently.

it said the average cost per month for healthcare in Mass (which has done what Obama care is supposed to do just on a state level)

600$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 50 Days - Boston

it was compared to Atlanta which is a more "average" health care system.

200$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 11 Days - Atlanta

so why is the statewide healthcare plan in Mass considered a success if it's increasing cost and lowering quality of care...and if that's the case why did Obama base his plan off that one...and is that what we can all expect for everyone once it starts being implemented on a federal level?
</p>


I live in Mass Daven. I call my doctor at 9:00 and he can see me no later than 11:00. All the Mass. HC law does is insure the small minority that aren't insured now. It has absolutely NO EFFECT on the 95% of people who already have insurance.</p>


My insurance is great actually. We have a low deductable and no co pay. Its because we have good insurance through the market system.</p>


I have no idea where these numbers of yours come from. I live here.</p>


I've never even heard of that. That number is simply for the Obamacare he's quoting, right? I love my insurance, and my company has done a kickass job of making sure we don't get cornholed on the premiums. little to no copays, free prescription drugs basically. My one gripe is with dental coverage, but i've never heard anyone say they like their dental insurance.</p>


I have great dental insurance.</p>

further proof that your experience with healthcare isn't a good sample of the restof the country...

or were u just davening?

Morehead State
02-29-2012, 09:24 AM
Also I just saw a claim recently.

it said the average cost per month for healthcare in Mass (which has done what Obama care is supposed to do just on a state level)

600$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 50 Days - Boston

it was compared to Atlanta which is a more "average" health care system.

200$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 11 Days - Atlanta

so why is the statewide healthcare plan in Mass considered a success if it's increasing cost and lowering quality of care...and if that's the case why did Obama base his plan off that one...and is that what we can all expect for everyone once it starts being implemented on a federal level?
</P>


I live in Mass Daven. I call my doctor at 9:00 and he can see me no later than 11:00. All the Mass. HC law does is insure the small minority that aren't insured now. It has absolutely NO EFFECT on the 95% of people who already have insurance.</P>


My insurance is great actually. We have a low deductable and no co pay. Its because we have good insurance through the market system.</P>


I have no idea where these numbers of yours come from. I live here.</P>


I've never even heard of that. That number is simply for the Obamacare he's quoting, right? I love my insurance, and my company has done a kickass job of making sure we don't get cornholed on the premiums. little to no copays, free prescription drugs basically. My one gripe is with dental coverage, but i've never heard anyone say they like their dental insurance.</P>


I have great dental insurance.</P>




further proof that your experience with healthcare isn't a good sample of the restof the country...

or were u just davening?
</P>


Now you get to be forced to buy HC insurance whether you can afford it or not. Didn't you say last year that you didn't have it because is was too expensive? Starting in 2014, you don't get to decide for yourself. You will be forced to buy insurance from private insurance companies thanks to Obamacare.</P>


My point is that the HC law in Mass. has no effect on the 95% of residents that already have insurance.</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-29-2012, 09:35 AM
Also I just saw a claim recently.

it said the average cost per month for healthcare in Mass (which has done what Obama care is supposed to do just on a state level)

600$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 50 Days - Boston

it was compared to Atlanta which is a more "average" health care system.

200$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 11 Days - Atlanta

so why is the statewide healthcare plan in Mass considered a success if it's increasing cost and lowering quality of care...and if that's the case why did Obama base his plan off that one...and is that what we can all expect for everyone once it starts being implemented on a federal level?
</p>


I live in Mass Daven. I call my doctor at 9:00 and he can see me no later than 11:00. All the Mass. HC law does is insure the small minority that aren't insured now. It has absolutely NO EFFECT on the 95% of people who already have insurance.</p>


My insurance is great actually. We have a low deductable and no co pay. Its because we have good insurance through the market system.</p>


I have no idea where these numbers of yours come from. I live here.</p>


I've never even heard of that. That number is simply for the Obamacare he's quoting, right? I love my insurance, and my company has done a kickass job of making sure we don't get cornholed on the premiums. little to no copays, free prescription drugs basically. My one gripe is with dental coverage, but i've never heard anyone say they like their dental insurance.</p>


I have great dental insurance.</p>




further proof that your experience with healthcare isn't a good sample of the restof the country...

or were u just davening?
</p>


Now you get to be forced to buy HC insurance whether you can afford it or not. Didn't you say last year that you didn't have it because is was too expensive? Starting in 2014, you don't get to decide for yourself. You will be forced to buy insurance from private insurance companies thanks to Obamacare.</p>


My point is that the HC law in Mass. has no effect on the 95% of residents that already have insurance.</p>

yes but, not at 125 dollars a week. Lando was the one that can't afford the insurance. Two jobs ago when I was working for a window and door gallery 7 years ago, I think I was making like 13 an hour on a 40 hour week and it would of cost me 125 bucks a week for insurance.

This is for people caught in those situations and with the unemployment the way it is people who are out of work. So many countries do this and have success. Much like the way Daven started spilling stats of Mass, you had to correct him. Its the same thing that happens when people start talking about how health insurance is other countries that have national healthcare. THEY ALL LOVE IT.

Infact the canucks have poked in on these convos when we have had them multiple times to say they can't believe the amount of people that are against this idea in the states.

It seems like your in a good situation and i'm glad for you and you SHOULD vote against this because obviously it doesn't make sense for you personally - but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense for ALOT of other people. I can't get into the debates with you because I don't know enough facts to argue it because I haven't really been following much lately. But i'll just stick to my general rule of thumb: oppose anything that pappy and daven say

EDIT: isn't obama care being modeled after a successful healthcare model (Mass situation) in which you have just said works for you, but yet ur still not for it??

MattMeyerBud
02-29-2012, 09:38 AM
BTW - i think im going to be removed from the mod team because we break too many rules in here and i call people morons too much lol

just a heads up

ny06
02-29-2012, 09:41 AM
Bobby Valentine takes jabs at Yanks</P>


http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/7626289/2012-spring-training-bobby-valentine-takes-jabs-new-york-yankees-alex-rodriguez-derek-jeter</P>


Good luck with this guy running your team Morehead. </P>


</P>

JPizzack
02-29-2012, 09:41 AM
BTW - i think im going to be removed from the mod team because we break too many rules in here and i call people morons too much lol

just a heads up
</P>


lol. as long as we dont get regularly banned...and youre ok with your demotion....whaaaatever!</P>


they say something?</P>

JPizzack
02-29-2012, 09:45 AM
After watching a handful of documentaries about how nationalized healthcare works, and how people love it, and how doctors love it because they are compensated sometimes even better than our private doctors.....I'm kinda for it. Not that I can speak for the doctors in england and canada, but they in interviews say their jobs are satisfying because they know they have the ability to help everyone. Not just people with insurnace. Well, they said that when asked, so it was prompted obviously, but, it makes sense. thats how you know youre making a difference.

MattMeyerBud
02-29-2012, 09:45 AM
Bobby Valentine takes jabs at Yanks</p>


http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/7626289/2012-spring-training-bobby-valentine-takes-jabs-new-york-yankees-alex-rodriguez-derek-jeter</p>


Good luck with this guy running your team Morehead. </p>


</p>
sounds like somebody is still butt hurt over 2000 world series - i love it

Morehead State
02-29-2012, 09:46 AM
Also I just saw a claim recently.

it said the average cost per month for healthcare in Mass (which has done what Obama care is supposed to do just on a state level)

600$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 50 Days - Boston

it was compared to Atlanta which is a more "average" health care system.

200$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 11 Days - Atlanta

so why is the statewide healthcare plan in Mass considered a success if it's increasing cost and lowering quality of care...and if that's the case why did Obama base his plan off that one...and is that what we can all expect for everyone once it starts being implemented on a federal level?
</P>


I live in Mass Daven. I call my doctor at 9:00 and he can see me no later than 11:00. All the Mass. HC law does is insure the small minority that aren't insured now. It has absolutely NO EFFECT on the 95% of people who already have insurance.</P>


My insurance is great actually. We have a low deductable and no co pay. Its because we have good insurance through the market system.</P>


I have no idea where these numbers of yours come from. I live here.</P>


I've never even heard of that. That number is simply for the Obamacare he's quoting, right? I love my insurance, and my company has done a kickass job of making sure we don't get cornholed on the premiums. little to no copays, free prescription drugs basically. My one gripe is with dental coverage, but i've never heard anyone say they like their dental insurance.</P>


I have great dental insurance.</P>




further proof that your experience with healthcare isn't a good sample of the restof the country...

or were u just davening?
</P>


Now you get to be forced to buy HC insurance whether you can afford it or not. Didn't you say last year that you didn't have it because is was too expensive? Starting in 2014, you don't get to decide for yourself. You will be forced to buy insurance from private insurance companies thanks to Obamacare.</P>


My point is that the HC law in Mass. has no effect on the 95% of residents that already have insurance.</P>




yes but, not at 125 dollars a week. Lando was the one that can't afford the insurance. Two jobs ago when I was working for a window and door gallery 7 years ago, I think I was making like 13 an hour on a 40 hour week and it would of cost me 125 bucks a week for insurance.

This is for people caught in those situations and with the unemployment the way it is people who are out of work. So many countries do this and have success. Much like the way Daven started spilling stats of Mass, you had to correct him. Its the same thing that happens when people start talking about how health insurance is other countries that have national healthcare. THEY ALL LOVE IT.

Infact the canucks have poked in on these convos when we have had them multiple times to say they can't believe the amount of people that are against this idea in the states.

It seems like your in a good situation and i'm glad for you and you SHOULD vote against this because obviously it doesn't make sense for you personally - but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense for ALOT of other people. I can't get into the debates with you because I don't know enough facts to argue it because I haven't really been following much lately. But i'll just stick to my general rule of thumb: oppose anything that pappy and daven say

EDIT: isn't obama care being modeled after a successful healthcare model (Mass situation) in which you have just said works for you, but yet ur still not for it??
</P>


My daughter ilves in the UK. She gets the choice of the UK HC system or private insurance provided by the US gov. She says the UK HC system is a nightmare. Essentially any non life threatening conditions usually take 4-6 months for an appt, Obviously, all the US gov. employees choose private insurance.</P>


You don't know how bad it is there Matt. This comes from someone who is there. Not bogus studies by posted by Daven. Her Brit friends all hate it.</P>


You don't understand how inefficient things get when huge bureaucracies run them. Its not idealogy. Its just the way it is. We need more competition in the system, not less.</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-29-2012, 09:49 AM
BTW - i think im going to be removed from the mod team because we break too many rules in here and i call people morons too much lol

just a heads up
</p>


lol. as long as we dont get regularly banned...and youre ok with your demotion....whaaaatever!</p>


they say something?</p>

yea i got an email saying that that they don't want me not to be here but we have to hold our selves to a higher standard... bla bla bla...

so i responded and said what I had to say, but **** that man. We were suppose to get some swag and **** like that and never did, so basically i do the mod'ing completely free. Which I don't mind btw, but i'm still going to say what I want to say. People get butt hurt over the terms idiotic or moronic then that sucks for them. But with the way some of these othe rmods abuse their power and just give bans to people they don't like I think is horse****. I mean how long did it take me to boot ManningBowl. I mean he literally was spamming every thread after COUNTLESS warnings.

I dunno, hope nothing happens but if it does then I think im on my way to BBI. I can't stand their message boards though

Morehead State
02-29-2012, 09:49 AM
After watching a handful of documentaries about how nationalized healthcare works, and how people love it, and how doctors love it because they are compensated sometimes even better than our private doctors.....I'm kinda for it. Not that I can speak for the doctors in england and canada, but they in interviews say their jobs are satisfying because they know they have the ability to help everyone. Not just people with insurnace. Well, they said that when asked, so it was prompted obviously, but, it makes sense. thats how you know youre making a difference.</P>


Doctors love it? Where in God's name did you read that. Do you know how many doctors drop out of Medicare because they can't get paid AND when they do its crap amounts?</P>


Look at the research, doctors hate the Medicare system and Obamacare is Medicare on steroids.</P>


</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-29-2012, 09:49 AM
Also I just saw a claim recently.

it said the average cost per month for healthcare in Mass (which has done what Obama care is supposed to do just on a state level)

600$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 50 Days - Boston

it was compared to Atlanta which is a more "average" health care system.

200$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 11 Days - Atlanta

so why is the statewide healthcare plan in Mass considered a success if it's increasing cost and lowering quality of care...and if that's the case why did Obama base his plan off that one...and is that what we can all expect for everyone once it starts being implemented on a federal level?
</p>


I live in Mass Daven. I call my doctor at 9:00 and he can see me no later than 11:00. All the Mass. HC law does is insure the small minority that aren't insured now. It has absolutely NO EFFECT on the 95% of people who already have insurance.</p>


My insurance is great actually. We have a low deductable and no co pay. Its because we have good insurance through the market system.</p>


I have no idea where these numbers of yours come from. I live here.</p>


I've never even heard of that. That number is simply for the Obamacare he's quoting, right? I love my insurance, and my company has done a kickass job of making sure we don't get cornholed on the premiums. little to no copays, free prescription drugs basically. My one gripe is with dental coverage, but i've never heard anyone say they like their dental insurance.</p>


I have great dental insurance.</p>




further proof that your experience with healthcare isn't a good sample of the restof the country...

or were u just davening?
</p>


Now you get to be forced to buy HC insurance whether you can afford it or not. Didn't you say last year that you didn't have it because is was too expensive? Starting in 2014, you don't get to decide for yourself. You will be forced to buy insurance from private insurance companies thanks to Obamacare.</p>


My point is that the HC law in Mass. has no effect on the 95% of residents that already have insurance.</p>




yes but, not at 125 dollars a week. Lando was the one that can't afford the insurance. Two jobs ago when I was working for a window and door gallery 7 years ago, I think I was making like 13 an hour on a 40 hour week and it would of cost me 125 bucks a week for insurance.

This is for people caught in those situations and with the unemployment the way it is people who are out of work. So many countries do this and have success. Much like the way Daven started spilling stats of Mass, you had to correct him. Its the same thing that happens when people start talking about how health insurance is other countries that have national healthcare. THEY ALL LOVE IT.

Infact the canucks have poked in on these convos when we have had them multiple times to say they can't believe the amount of people that are against this idea in the states.

It seems like your in a good situation and i'm glad for you and you SHOULD vote against this because obviously it doesn't make sense for you personally - but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense for ALOT of other people. I can't get into the debates with you because I don't know enough facts to argue it because I haven't really been following much lately. But i'll just stick to my general rule of thumb: oppose anything that pappy and daven say

EDIT: isn't obama care being modeled after a successful healthcare model (Mass situation) in which you have just said works for you, but yet ur still not for it??
</p>


My daughter ilves in the UK. She gets the choice of the UK HC system or private insurance provided by the US gov. She says the UK HC system is a nightmare. Essentially any non life threatening conditions usually take 4-6 months for an appt, Obviously, all the US gov. employees choose private insurance.</p>


You don't know how bad it is there Matt. This comes from someone who is there. Not bogus studies by posted by Daven. Her Brit friends all hate it.</p>


You don't understand how inefficient things get when huge bureaucracies run them. Its not idealogy. Its just the way it is. We need more competition in the system, not less.</p>

okay and canadians have come in here and we've heard it from the horses mouth that they LOVE it

JPizzack
02-29-2012, 09:56 AM
After watching a handful of documentaries about how nationalized healthcare works, and how people love it, and how doctors love it because they are compensated sometimes even better than our private doctors.....I'm kinda for it. Not that I can speak for the doctors in england and canada, but they in interviews say their jobs are satisfying because they know they have the ability to help everyone. Not just people with insurnace. Well, they said that when asked, so it was prompted obviously, but, it makes sense. thats how you know youre making a difference.</P>


Doctors love it? Where in God's name did you read that. Do you know how many doctors drop out of Medicare because they can't get paid AND when they do its crap amounts?</P>


Look at the research, doctors hate the Medicare system and Obamacare is Medicare on steroids.</P>


</P>


</P>


There were films. One was a PBS thing called Sick Around the World, I also watched Sicko, and a BBC doc called World Service, Health of a Nation</P>


I can't take your word for it, when we've seen Canadians, in this thread say it's great.</P>

dezzzR
02-29-2012, 09:56 AM
Bobby Valentine takes jabs at Yanks</p>


http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/7626289/2012-spring-training-bobby-valentine-takes-jabs-new-york-yankees-alex-rodriguez-derek-jeter</p>


Good luck with this guy running your team Morehead. </p>


</p>Thanks for the ammo Bobby.

Morehead State
02-29-2012, 10:04 AM
Also I just saw a claim recently.

it said the average cost per month for healthcare in Mass (which has done what Obama care is supposed to do just on a state level)

600$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 50 Days - Boston

it was compared to Atlanta which is a more "average" health care system.

200$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 11 Days - Atlanta

so why is the statewide healthcare plan in Mass considered a success if it's increasing cost and lowering quality of care...and if that's the case why did Obama base his plan off that one...and is that what we can all expect for everyone once it starts being implemented on a federal level?
</P>


I live in Mass Daven. I call my doctor at 9:00 and he can see me no later than 11:00. All the Mass. HC law does is insure the small minority that aren't insured now. It has absolutely NO EFFECT on the 95% of people who already have insurance.</P>


My insurance is great actually. We have a low deductable and no co pay. Its because we have good insurance through the market system.</P>


I have no idea where these numbers of yours come from. I live here.</P>


I've never even heard of that. That number is simply for the Obamacare he's quoting, right? I love my insurance, and my company has done a kickass job of making sure we don't get cornholed on the premiums. little to no copays, free prescription drugs basically. My one gripe is with dental coverage, but i've never heard anyone say they like their dental insurance.</P>


I have great dental insurance.</P>




further proof that your experience with healthcare isn't a good sample of the restof the country...

or were u just davening?
</P>


Now you get to be forced to buy HC insurance whether you can afford it or not. Didn't you say last year that you didn't have it because is was too expensive? Starting in 2014, you don't get to decide for yourself. You will be forced to buy insurance from private insurance companies thanks to Obamacare.</P>


My point is that the HC law in Mass. has no effect on the 95% of residents that already have insurance.</P>




yes but, not at 125 dollars a week. Lando was the one that can't afford the insurance. Two jobs ago when I was working for a window and door gallery 7 years ago, I think I was making like 13 an hour on a 40 hour week and it would of cost me 125 bucks a week for insurance.

This is for people caught in those situations and with the unemployment the way it is people who are out of work. So many countries do this and have success. Much like the way Daven started spilling stats of Mass, you had to correct him. Its the same thing that happens when people start talking about how health insurance is other countries that have national healthcare. THEY ALL LOVE IT.

Infact the canucks have poked in on these convos when we have had them multiple times to say they can't believe the amount of people that are against this idea in the states.

It seems like your in a good situation and i'm glad for you and you SHOULD vote against this because obviously it doesn't make sense for you personally - but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense for ALOT of other people. I can't get into the debates with you because I don't know enough facts to argue it because I haven't really been following much lately. But i'll just stick to my general rule of thumb: oppose anything that pappy and daven say

EDIT: isn't obama care being modeled after a successful healthcare model (Mass situation) in which you have just said works for you, but yet ur still not for it??
</P>


My daughter ilves in the UK. She gets the choice of the UK HC system or private insurance provided by the US gov. She says the UK HC system is a nightmare. Essentially any non life threatening conditions usually take 4-6 months for an appt, Obviously, all the US gov. employees choose private insurance.</P>


You don't know how bad it is there Matt. This comes from someone who is there. Not bogus studies by posted by Daven. Her Brit friends all hate it.</P>


You don't understand how inefficient things get when huge bureaucracies run them. Its not idealogy. Its just the way it is. We need more competition in the system, not less.</P>




okay and canadians have come in here and we've heard it from the horses mouth that they LOVE it
</P>


You have to be kidding me.</P>


What about Danny Williams, the Premier of Newfoundland, coming to the US for heart surgery.</P>


Its meatball healthcare in Canada. And it builds complaisance. Thats the worst thing these kinds of things do. They build a dependence on government that takes away your spirit. Its all over Europe right now. Thats why we outproduce them and they come calling on us when they need military help.</P>


Americans are self reliant. And that attitude creates economic growth and prosperity. Nationalized healthcare and other huge government programs work against that. </P>


The European people have learned to depend on others. Thats why they are weak and needy. Thats why the fiscal crisis is spreading to Spain and Portugal. It will soon find its way to France and the UK.</P>


The "cradle to grave" entitilement society strips the ambition out of people. It will be discredited as time goes byespecially asgovernments go broke.</P>

dezzzR
02-29-2012, 10:05 AM
After watching a handful of documentaries about how nationalized healthcare works, and how people love it, and how doctors love it because they are compensated sometimes even better than our private doctors.....I'm kinda for it. Not that I can speak for the doctors in england and canada, but they in interviews say their jobs are satisfying because they know they have the ability to help everyone. Not just people with insurnace. Well, they said that when asked, so it was prompted obviously, but, it makes sense. thats how you know youre making a difference.</p>


Doctors love it? Where in God's name did you read that. Do you know how many doctors drop out of Medicare because they can't get paid AND when they do its crap amounts?</p>


Look at the research, doctors hate the Medicare system and Obamacare is Medicare on steroids.</p>


</p>


</p>


There were films. One was a <u>PBS</u> thing called Sick Around the World, I also watched Sicko, and a BBC doc called World Service, Health of a Nation</p>


I can't take your word for it, when we've seen Canadians, in this thread say it's great.</p>well there you go. thats why doctors "loved" it

MattMeyerBud
02-29-2012, 10:13 AM
Also I just saw a claim recently.

it said the average cost per month for healthcare in Mass (which has done what Obama care is supposed to do just on a state level)

600$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 50 Days - Boston

it was compared to Atlanta which is a more "average" health care system.

200$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 11 Days - Atlanta

so why is the statewide healthcare plan in Mass considered a success if it's increasing cost and lowering quality of care...and if that's the case why did Obama base his plan off that one...and is that what we can all expect for everyone once it starts being implemented on a federal level?
</p>


I live in Mass Daven. I call my doctor at 9:00 and he can see me no later than 11:00. All the Mass. HC law does is insure the small minority that aren't insured now. It has absolutely NO EFFECT on the 95% of people who already have insurance.</p>


My insurance is great actually. We have a low deductable and no co pay. Its because we have good insurance through the market system.</p>


I have no idea where these numbers of yours come from. I live here.</p>


I've never even heard of that. That number is simply for the Obamacare he's quoting, right? I love my insurance, and my company has done a kickass job of making sure we don't get cornholed on the premiums. little to no copays, free prescription drugs basically. My one gripe is with dental coverage, but i've never heard anyone say they like their dental insurance.</p>


I have great dental insurance.</p>




further proof that your experience with healthcare isn't a good sample of the restof the country...

or were u just davening?
</p>


Now you get to be forced to buy HC insurance whether you can afford it or not. Didn't you say last year that you didn't have it because is was too expensive? Starting in 2014, you don't get to decide for yourself. You will be forced to buy insurance from private insurance companies thanks to Obamacare.</p>


My point is that the HC law in Mass. has no effect on the 95% of residents that already have insurance.</p>




yes but, not at 125 dollars a week. Lando was the one that can't afford the insurance. Two jobs ago when I was working for a window and door gallery 7 years ago, I think I was making like 13 an hour on a 40 hour week and it would of cost me 125 bucks a week for insurance.

This is for people caught in those situations and with the unemployment the way it is people who are out of work. So many countries do this and have success. Much like the way Daven started spilling stats of Mass, you had to correct him. Its the same thing that happens when people start talking about how health insurance is other countries that have national healthcare. THEY ALL LOVE IT.

Infact the canucks have poked in on these convos when we have had them multiple times to say they can't believe the amount of people that are against this idea in the states.

It seems like your in a good situation and i'm glad for you and you SHOULD vote against this because obviously it doesn't make sense for you personally - but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense for ALOT of other people. I can't get into the debates with you because I don't know enough facts to argue it because I haven't really been following much lately. But i'll just stick to my general rule of thumb: oppose anything that pappy and daven say

EDIT: isn't obama care being modeled after a successful healthcare model (Mass situation) in which you have just said works for you, but yet ur still not for it??
</p>


My daughter ilves in the UK. She gets the choice of the UK HC system or private insurance provided by the US gov. She says the UK HC system is a nightmare. Essentially any non life threatening conditions usually take 4-6 months for an appt, Obviously, all the US gov. employees choose private insurance.</p>


You don't know how bad it is there Matt. This comes from someone who is there. Not bogus studies by posted by Daven. Her Brit friends all hate it.</p>


You don't understand how inefficient things get when huge bureaucracies run them. Its not idealogy. Its just the way it is. We need more competition in the system, not less.</p>




okay and canadians have come in here and we've heard it from the horses mouth that they LOVE it
</p>


You have to be kidding me.</p>


What about Danny Williams, the Premier of Newfoundland, coming to the US for heart surgery.</p>


Its meatball healthcare in Canada. And it builds complaisance. Thats the worst thing these kinds of things do. They build a dependence on government that takes away your spirit. Its all over Europe right now. Thats why we outproduce them and they come calling on us when they need military help.</p>


Americans are self reliant. And that attitude creates economic growth and prosperity. Nationalized healthcare and other huge government programs work against that. </p>


The European people have learned to depend on others. Thats why they are weak and needy. Thats why the fiscal crisis is spreading to Spain and Portugal. It will soon find its way to France and the UK.</p>


The "cradle to grave" entitilement society strips the ambition out of people. It will be discredited as time goes byespecially asgovernments go broke.</p>

I just disagree with your general assessment that Americans are self reliant. You have some pretty scary views moorehead, not going to lie.

And I think your living in the past. Americans arent' self reliant anymore.

Morehead State
02-29-2012, 10:13 AM
And its all a moot point. The American people would never stand for it. As I said, we are a self reliant people. Generally Americans have little or no interest is giving up the freedoms required here to have a single payer system.</P>


</P>


It is what has always seperated us from people from other countries. Self determination is the essential tenent of the American experience. It is precisely that that has created the most prosperous and just society on the planet.</P>


We will NEVER support a more entitled society. We will always choose to control our own destiny. That is what makes us inherantly American.</P>

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 10:14 AM
Not bogus studies by posted by Daven.

Hey I take offense to that, the reason I even posted it was because it was from Mass and I know you are from Mass and wanted your opinion on it because I didn't know, I never claimed it to be fact.

but it is common sense that if you cover more people with the same (or less doctors) wait times will increase...it's impossible for them not to, it's also common sense that once bureaucracy gets involved every system gets bogged down...the quality of care and length of wait both necessarily HAVE to get worse...it's simply the only logical conclusion.

about why some people claim they love their nationalized health care (Canada/UK) and some claim they hate it in the same places....I have to think they simply do not understand or have never used the alternative.

Morehead State
02-29-2012, 10:15 AM
Also I just saw a claim recently.

it said the average cost per month for healthcare in Mass (which has done what Obama care is supposed to do just on a state level)

600$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 50 Days - Boston

it was compared to Atlanta which is a more "average" health care system.

200$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 11 Days - Atlanta

so why is the statewide healthcare plan in Mass considered a success if it's increasing cost and lowering quality of care...and if that's the case why did Obama base his plan off that one...and is that what we can all expect for everyone once it starts being implemented on a federal level?
</P>


I live in Mass Daven. I call my doctor at 9:00 and he can see me no later than 11:00. All the Mass. HC law does is insure the small minority that aren't insured now. It has absolutely NO EFFECT on the 95% of people who already have insurance.</P>


My insurance is great actually. We have a low deductable and no co pay. Its because we have good insurance through the market system.</P>


I have no idea where these numbers of yours come from. I live here.</P>


I've never even heard of that. That number is simply for the Obamacare he's quoting, right? I love my insurance, and my company has done a kickass job of making sure we don't get cornholed on the premiums. little to no copays, free prescription drugs basically. My one gripe is with dental coverage, but i've never heard anyone say they like their dental insurance.</P>


I have great dental insurance.</P>




further proof that your experience with healthcare isn't a good sample of the restof the country...

or were u just davening?
</P>


Now you get to be forced to buy HC insurance whether you can afford it or not. Didn't you say last year that you didn't have it because is was too expensive? Starting in 2014, you don't get to decide for yourself. You will be forced to buy insurance from private insurance companies thanks to Obamacare.</P>


My point is that the HC law in Mass. has no effect on the 95% of residents that already have insurance.</P>




yes but, not at 125 dollars a week. Lando was the one that can't afford the insurance. Two jobs ago when I was working for a window and door gallery 7 years ago, I think I was making like 13 an hour on a 40 hour week and it would of cost me 125 bucks a week for insurance.

This is for people caught in those situations and with the unemployment the way it is people who are out of work. So many countries do this and have success. Much like the way Daven started spilling stats of Mass, you had to correct him. Its the same thing that happens when people start talking about how health insurance is other countries that have national healthcare. THEY ALL LOVE IT.

Infact the canucks have poked in on these convos when we have had them multiple times to say they can't believe the amount of people that are against this idea in the states.

It seems like your in a good situation and i'm glad for you and you SHOULD vote against this because obviously it doesn't make sense for you personally - but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense for ALOT of other people. I can't get into the debates with you because I don't know enough facts to argue it because I haven't really been following much lately. But i'll just stick to my general rule of thumb: oppose anything that pappy and daven say

EDIT: isn't obama care being modeled after a successful healthcare model (Mass situation) in which you have just said works for you, but yet ur still not for it??
</P>


My daughter ilves in the UK. She gets the choice of the UK HC system or private insurance provided by the US gov. She says the UK HC system is a nightmare. Essentially any non life threatening conditions usually take 4-6 months for an appt, Obviously, all the US gov. employees choose private insurance.</P>


You don't know how bad it is there Matt. This comes from someone who is there. Not bogus studies by posted by Daven. Her Brit friends all hate it.</P>


You don't understand how inefficient things get when huge bureaucracies run them. Its not idealogy. Its just the way it is. We need more competition in the system, not less.</P>




okay and canadians have come in here and we've heard it from the horses mouth that they LOVE it
</P>


You have to be kidding me.</P>


What about Danny Williams, the Premier of Newfoundland, coming to the US for heart surgery.</P>


Its meatball healthcare in Canada. And it builds complaisance. Thats the worst thing these kinds of things do. They build a dependence on government that takes away your spirit. Its all over Europe right now. Thats why we outproduce them and they come calling on us when they need military help.</P>


Americans are self reliant. And that attitude creates economic growth and prosperity. Nationalized healthcare and other huge government programs work against that. </P>


The European people have learned to depend on others. Thats why they are weak and needy. Thats why the fiscal crisis is spreading to Spain and Portugal. It will soon find its way to France and the UK.</P>


The "cradle to grave" entitilement society strips the ambition out of people. It will be discredited as time goes byespecially asgovernments go broke.</P>




I just disagree with your general assessment that Americans are self reliant. You have some pretty scary views moorehead, not going to lie.

And I think your living in the past. Americans arent' self reliant anymore.
</P>


And its this attitude that is the biggest problem. "Americans need to be cared for by the federal government". If this is true we are truly doomed.</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-29-2012, 10:15 AM
After watching a handful of documentaries about how nationalized healthcare works, and how people love it, and how doctors love it because they are compensated sometimes even better than our private doctors.....I'm kinda for it. Not that I can speak for the doctors in england and canada, but they in interviews say their jobs are satisfying because they know they have the ability to help everyone. Not just people with insurnace. Well, they said that when asked, so it was prompted obviously, but, it makes sense. thats how you know youre making a difference.</p>


Doctors love it? Where in God's name did you read that. Do you know how many doctors drop out of Medicare because they can't get paid AND when they do its crap amounts?</p>


Look at the research, doctors hate the Medicare system and Obamacare is Medicare on steroids.</p>


</p>


</p>


There were films. One was a <u>PBS</u> thing called Sick Around the World, I also watched Sicko, and a BBC doc called World Service, Health of a Nation</p>


I can't take your word for it, when we've seen Canadians, in this thread say it's great.</p>well there you go. thats why doctors "loved" it


like this is the typical reason why I can't stand republicans.

YOu will throw stuff that supports your theory out and I'll accept it, but then when we retort with the fact that we've had people actually in our debate say that they love it it just gets overlooked and ignored like it shouldn't matter just because it opposes your view point.

Why does MH's daughter's experience out trump bandwagons?

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 10:16 AM
And its all a moot point. The American people would never stand for it. As I said, we are a self reliant people. Generally Americans have little or no interest is giving up the freedoms required here to have a single payer system.</p>


</p>


It is what has always seperated us from people from other countries. Self determination is the essential tenent of the American experience. It is precisely that that has created the most prosperous and just society on the planet.</p>


We will NEVER support a more entitled society. We will always choose to control our own destiny. That is what makes us inherantly American.</p>

that is what we are losing as a society though Morehead...more and more people are becoming dependent on the government under this administration...and once they become dependent on the government they don't mind giving up their rights for more hand outs.

dezzzR
02-29-2012, 10:17 AM
Also I just saw a claim recently.

it said the average cost per month for healthcare in Mass (which has done what Obama care is supposed to do just on a state level)

600$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 50 Days - Boston

it was compared to Atlanta which is a more "average" health care system.

200$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 11 Days - Atlanta

so why is the statewide healthcare plan in Mass considered a success if it's increasing cost and lowering quality of care...and if that's the case why did Obama base his plan off that one...and is that what we can all expect for everyone once it starts being implemented on a federal level?
</p>


I live in Mass Daven. I call my doctor at 9:00 and he can see me no later than 11:00. All the Mass. HC law does is insure the small minority that aren't insured now. It has absolutely NO EFFECT on the 95% of people who already have insurance.</p>


My insurance is great actually. We have a low deductable and no co pay. Its because we have good insurance through the market system.</p>


I have no idea where these numbers of yours come from. I live here.</p>


I've never even heard of that. That number is simply for the Obamacare he's quoting, right? I love my insurance, and my company has done a kickass job of making sure we don't get cornholed on the premiums. little to no copays, free prescription drugs basically. My one gripe is with dental coverage, but i've never heard anyone say they like their dental insurance.</p>


I have great dental insurance.</p>




further proof that your experience with healthcare isn't a good sample of the restof the country...

or were u just davening?
</p>


Now you get to be forced to buy HC insurance whether you can afford it or not. Didn't you say last year that you didn't have it because is was too expensive? Starting in 2014, you don't get to decide for yourself. You will be forced to buy insurance from private insurance companies thanks to Obamacare.</p>


My point is that the HC law in Mass. has no effect on the 95% of residents that already have insurance.</p>




yes but, not at 125 dollars a week. Lando was the one that can't afford the insurance. Two jobs ago when I was working for a window and door gallery 7 years ago, I think I was making like 13 an hour on a 40 hour week and it would of cost me 125 bucks a week for insurance.

This is for people caught in those situations and with the unemployment the way it is people who are out of work. So many countries do this and have success. Much like the way Daven started spilling stats of Mass, you had to correct him. Its the same thing that happens when people start talking about how health insurance is other countries that have national healthcare. THEY ALL LOVE IT.

Infact the canucks have poked in on these convos when we have had them multiple times to say they can't believe the amount of people that are against this idea in the states.

It seems like your in a good situation and i'm glad for you and you SHOULD vote against this because obviously it doesn't make sense for you personally - but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense for ALOT of other people. I can't get into the debates with you because I don't know enough facts to argue it because I haven't really been following much lately. But i'll just stick to my general rule of thumb: oppose anything that pappy and daven say

EDIT: isn't obama care being modeled after a successful healthcare model (Mass situation) in which you have just said works for you, but yet ur still not for it??
</p>


My daughter ilves in the UK. She gets the choice of the UK HC system or private insurance provided by the US gov. She says the UK HC system is a nightmare. Essentially any non life threatening conditions usually take 4-6 months for an appt, Obviously, all the US gov. employees choose private insurance.</p>


You don't know how bad it is there Matt. This comes from someone who is there. Not bogus studies by posted by Daven. Her Brit friends all hate it.</p>


You don't understand how inefficient things get when huge bureaucracies run them. Its not idealogy. Its just the way it is. We need more competition in the system, not less.</p>




okay and canadians have come in here and we've heard it from the horses mouth that they LOVE it
</p>


You have to be kidding me.</p>


What about Danny Williams, the Premier of Newfoundland, coming to the US for heart surgery.</p>


Its meatball healthcare in Canada. And it builds complaisance. Thats the worst thing these kinds of things do. They build a dependence on government that takes away your spirit. Its all over Europe right now. Thats why we outproduce them and they come calling on us when they need military help.</p>


Americans are self reliant. And that attitude creates economic growth and prosperity. Nationalized healthcare and other huge government programs work against that. </p>


The European people have learned to depend on others. Thats why they are weak and needy. Thats why the fiscal crisis is spreading to Spain and Portugal. It will soon find its way to France and the UK.</p>


The "cradle to grave" entitilement society strips the ambition out of people. It will be discredited as time goes byespecially asgovernments go broke.</p>

I just disagree with your general assessment that Americans are self reliant. You have some pretty scary views moorehead, not going to lie.

And I think your living in the past. <u>Americans arent' self reliant anymore. </u>
WHAAAAT?!? maybe hippys and people living off welfare. That right there is scarier than ANYTHING mh has stated.

MattMeyerBud
02-29-2012, 10:17 AM
Also I just saw a claim recently.

it said the average cost per month for healthcare in Mass (which has done what Obama care is supposed to do just on a state level)

600$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 50 Days - Boston

it was compared to Atlanta which is a more "average" health care system.

200$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 11 Days - Atlanta

so why is the statewide healthcare plan in Mass considered a success if it's increasing cost and lowering quality of care...and if that's the case why did Obama base his plan off that one...and is that what we can all expect for everyone once it starts being implemented on a federal level?
</p>


I live in Mass Daven. I call my doctor at 9:00 and he can see me no later than 11:00. All the Mass. HC law does is insure the small minority that aren't insured now. It has absolutely NO EFFECT on the 95% of people who already have insurance.</p>


My insurance is great actually. We have a low deductable and no co pay. Its because we have good insurance through the market system.</p>


I have no idea where these numbers of yours come from. I live here.</p>


I've never even heard of that. That number is simply for the Obamacare he's quoting, right? I love my insurance, and my company has done a kickass job of making sure we don't get cornholed on the premiums. little to no copays, free prescription drugs basically. My one gripe is with dental coverage, but i've never heard anyone say they like their dental insurance.</p>


I have great dental insurance.</p>




further proof that your experience with healthcare isn't a good sample of the restof the country...

or were u just davening?
</p>


Now you get to be forced to buy HC insurance whether you can afford it or not. Didn't you say last year that you didn't have it because is was too expensive? Starting in 2014, you don't get to decide for yourself. You will be forced to buy insurance from private insurance companies thanks to Obamacare.</p>


My point is that the HC law in Mass. has no effect on the 95% of residents that already have insurance.</p>




yes but, not at 125 dollars a week. Lando was the one that can't afford the insurance. Two jobs ago when I was working for a window and door gallery 7 years ago, I think I was making like 13 an hour on a 40 hour week and it would of cost me 125 bucks a week for insurance.

This is for people caught in those situations and with the unemployment the way it is people who are out of work. So many countries do this and have success. Much like the way Daven started spilling stats of Mass, you had to correct him. Its the same thing that happens when people start talking about how health insurance is other countries that have national healthcare. THEY ALL LOVE IT.

Infact the canucks have poked in on these convos when we have had them multiple times to say they can't believe the amount of people that are against this idea in the states.

It seems like your in a good situation and i'm glad for you and you SHOULD vote against this because obviously it doesn't make sense for you personally - but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense for ALOT of other people. I can't get into the debates with you because I don't know enough facts to argue it because I haven't really been following much lately. But i'll just stick to my general rule of thumb: oppose anything that pappy and daven say

EDIT: isn't obama care being modeled after a successful healthcare model (Mass situation) in which you have just said works for you, but yet ur still not for it??
</p>


My daughter ilves in the UK. She gets the choice of the UK HC system or private insurance provided by the US gov. She says the UK HC system is a nightmare. Essentially any non life threatening conditions usually take 4-6 months for an appt, Obviously, all the US gov. employees choose private insurance.</p>


You don't know how bad it is there Matt. This comes from someone who is there. Not bogus studies by posted by Daven. Her Brit friends all hate it.</p>


You don't understand how inefficient things get when huge bureaucracies run them. Its not idealogy. Its just the way it is. We need more competition in the system, not less.</p>




okay and canadians have come in here and we've heard it from the horses mouth that they LOVE it
</p>


You have to be kidding me.</p>


What about Danny Williams, the Premier of Newfoundland, coming to the US for heart surgery.</p>


Its meatball healthcare in Canada. And it builds complaisance. Thats the worst thing these kinds of things do. They build a dependence on government that takes away your spirit. Its all over Europe right now. Thats why we outproduce them and they come calling on us when they need military help.</p>


Americans are self reliant. And that attitude creates economic growth and prosperity. Nationalized healthcare and other huge government programs work against that. </p>


The European people have learned to depend on others. Thats why they are weak and needy. Thats why the fiscal crisis is spreading to Spain and Portugal. It will soon find its way to France and the UK.</p>


The "cradle to grave" entitilement society strips the ambition out of people. It will be discredited as time goes byespecially asgovernments go broke.</p>




I just disagree with your general assessment that Americans are self reliant. You have some pretty scary views moorehead, not going to lie.

And I think your living in the past. Americans arent' self reliant anymore.
</p>


And its this attitude that is the biggest problem. "Americans need to be cared for by the federal government". If this is true we are truly doomed.</p>

hate to break it to you, but its what has alreayd happened and shown to be truth.

I'm sorry but its true. First step to solving a problem is identifying it. You've yet to identify that we have fallen from being self reliant

Morehead State
02-29-2012, 10:18 AM
Not bogus studies by posted by Daven.

Hey I take offense to that, the reason I even posted it was because it was from Mass and I know you are from Mass and wanted your opinion on it because I didn't know, I never claimed it to be fact.

but it is common sense that if you cover more people with the same (or less doctors) wait times will increase...it's impossible for them not to, it's also common sense that once bureaucracy gets involved every system gets bogged down...the quality of care and length of wait both necessarily HAVE to get worse...it's simply the only logical conclusion.

about why some people claim they love their nationalized health care (Canada/UK) and some claim they hate it in the same places....I have to think they simply do not understand or have never used the alternative.
</P>


You posted something like "the average wait time in Mass is 50 days" which is completely bogus.</P>


Mass. does not have a socialized medical system in any way. Its a myth spread by Romney haters.</P>


Mitt Romney is the most conservative candidate when it comes to fiscal policy, which is exactly what we need. He's more moderate on social issues which is fine with me.</P>

MattMeyerBud
02-29-2012, 10:20 AM
Also I just saw a claim recently.

it said the average cost per month for healthcare in Mass (which has done what Obama care is supposed to do just on a state level)

600$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 50 Days - Boston

it was compared to Atlanta which is a more "average" health care system.

200$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 11 Days - Atlanta

so why is the statewide healthcare plan in Mass considered a success if it's increasing cost and lowering quality of care...and if that's the case why did Obama base his plan off that one...and is that what we can all expect for everyone once it starts being implemented on a federal level?
</p>


I live in Mass Daven. I call my doctor at 9:00 and he can see me no later than 11:00. All the Mass. HC law does is insure the small minority that aren't insured now. It has absolutely NO EFFECT on the 95% of people who already have insurance.</p>


My insurance is great actually. We have a low deductable and no co pay. Its because we have good insurance through the market system.</p>


I have no idea where these numbers of yours come from. I live here.</p>


I've never even heard of that. That number is simply for the Obamacare he's quoting, right? I love my insurance, and my company has done a kickass job of making sure we don't get cornholed on the premiums. little to no copays, free prescription drugs basically. My one gripe is with dental coverage, but i've never heard anyone say they like their dental insurance.</p>


I have great dental insurance.</p>




further proof that your experience with healthcare isn't a good sample of the restof the country...

or were u just davening?
</p>


Now you get to be forced to buy HC insurance whether you can afford it or not. Didn't you say last year that you didn't have it because is was too expensive? Starting in 2014, you don't get to decide for yourself. You will be forced to buy insurance from private insurance companies thanks to Obamacare.</p>


My point is that the HC law in Mass. has no effect on the 95% of residents that already have insurance.</p>




yes but, not at 125 dollars a week. Lando was the one that can't afford the insurance. Two jobs ago when I was working for a window and door gallery 7 years ago, I think I was making like 13 an hour on a 40 hour week and it would of cost me 125 bucks a week for insurance.

This is for people caught in those situations and with the unemployment the way it is people who are out of work. So many countries do this and have success. Much like the way Daven started spilling stats of Mass, you had to correct him. Its the same thing that happens when people start talking about how health insurance is other countries that have national healthcare. THEY ALL LOVE IT.

Infact the canucks have poked in on these convos when we have had them multiple times to say they can't believe the amount of people that are against this idea in the states.

It seems like your in a good situation and i'm glad for you and you SHOULD vote against this because obviously it doesn't make sense for you personally - but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense for ALOT of other people. I can't get into the debates with you because I don't know enough facts to argue it because I haven't really been following much lately. But i'll just stick to my general rule of thumb: oppose anything that pappy and daven say

EDIT: isn't obama care being modeled after a successful healthcare model (Mass situation) in which you have just said works for you, but yet ur still not for it??
</p>


My daughter ilves in the UK. She gets the choice of the UK HC system or private insurance provided by the US gov. She says the UK HC system is a nightmare. Essentially any non life threatening conditions usually take 4-6 months for an appt, Obviously, all the US gov. employees choose private insurance.</p>


You don't know how bad it is there Matt. This comes from someone who is there. Not bogus studies by posted by Daven. Her Brit friends all hate it.</p>


You don't understand how inefficient things get when huge bureaucracies run them. Its not idealogy. Its just the way it is. We need more competition in the system, not less.</p>




okay and canadians have come in here and we've heard it from the horses mouth that they LOVE it
</p>


You have to be kidding me.</p>


What about Danny Williams, the Premier of Newfoundland, coming to the US for heart surgery.</p>


Its meatball healthcare in Canada. And it builds complaisance. Thats the worst thing these kinds of things do. They build a dependence on government that takes away your spirit. Its all over Europe right now. Thats why we outproduce them and they come calling on us when they need military help.</p>


Americans are self reliant. And that attitude creates economic growth and prosperity. Nationalized healthcare and other huge government programs work against that. </p>


The European people have learned to depend on others. Thats why they are weak and needy. Thats why the fiscal crisis is spreading to Spain and Portugal. It will soon find its way to France and the UK.</p>


The "cradle to grave" entitilement society strips the ambition out of people. It will be discredited as time goes byespecially asgovernments go broke.</p>

I just disagree with your general assessment that Americans are self reliant. You have some pretty scary views moorehead, not going to lie.

And I think your living in the past. <u>Americans arent' self reliant anymore. </u>
WHAAAAT?!? maybe hippys and people living off welfare. That right there is scarier than ANYTHING mh has stated.


how much money have we borrowed over the past 30 years? Whats the condition of our employment rate? What have we let the medical and academic fields become? Hows our banking and mortgage crisis doing?

If we were truly self reliant we'd be in a MUCH better place. We have tried to be self reliant but it really hasn't worked.

Morehead State
02-29-2012, 10:20 AM
Also I just saw a claim recently.

it said the average cost per month for healthcare in Mass (which has done what Obama care is supposed to do just on a state level)

600$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 50 Days - Boston

it was compared to Atlanta which is a more "average" health care system.

200$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 11 Days - Atlanta

so why is the statewide healthcare plan in Mass considered a success if it's increasing cost and lowering quality of care...and if that's the case why did Obama base his plan off that one...and is that what we can all expect for everyone once it starts being implemented on a federal level?
</P>


I live in Mass Daven. I call my doctor at 9:00 and he can see me no later than 11:00. All the Mass. HC law does is insure the small minority that aren't insured now. It has absolutely NO EFFECT on the 95% of people who already have insurance.</P>


My insurance is great actually. We have a low deductable and no co pay. Its because we have good insurance through the market system.</P>


I have no idea where these numbers of yours come from. I live here.</P>


I've never even heard of that. That number is simply for the Obamacare he's quoting, right? I love my insurance, and my company has done a kickass job of making sure we don't get cornholed on the premiums. little to no copays, free prescription drugs basically. My one gripe is with dental coverage, but i've never heard anyone say they like their dental insurance.</P>


I have great dental insurance.</P>




further proof that your experience with healthcare isn't a good sample of the restof the country...

or were u just davening?
</P>


Now you get to be forced to buy HC insurance whether you can afford it or not. Didn't you say last year that you didn't have it because is was too expensive? Starting in 2014, you don't get to decide for yourself. You will be forced to buy insurance from private insurance companies thanks to Obamacare.</P>


My point is that the HC law in Mass. has no effect on the 95% of residents that already have insurance.</P>




yes but, not at 125 dollars a week. Lando was the one that can't afford the insurance. Two jobs ago when I was working for a window and door gallery 7 years ago, I think I was making like 13 an hour on a 40 hour week and it would of cost me 125 bucks a week for insurance.

This is for people caught in those situations and with the unemployment the way it is people who are out of work. So many countries do this and have success. Much like the way Daven started spilling stats of Mass, you had to correct him. Its the same thing that happens when people start talking about how health insurance is other countries that have national healthcare. THEY ALL LOVE IT.

Infact the canucks have poked in on these convos when we have had them multiple times to say they can't believe the amount of people that are against this idea in the states.

It seems like your in a good situation and i'm glad for you and you SHOULD vote against this because obviously it doesn't make sense for you personally - but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense for ALOT of other people. I can't get into the debates with you because I don't know enough facts to argue it because I haven't really been following much lately. But i'll just stick to my general rule of thumb: oppose anything that pappy and daven say

EDIT: isn't obama care being modeled after a successful healthcare model (Mass situation) in which you have just said works for you, but yet ur still not for it??
</P>


My daughter ilves in the UK. She gets the choice of the UK HC system or private insurance provided by the US gov. She says the UK HC system is a nightmare. Essentially any non life threatening conditions usually take 4-6 months for an appt, Obviously, all the US gov. employees choose private insurance.</P>


You don't know how bad it is there Matt. This comes from someone who is there. Not bogus studies by posted by Daven. Her Brit friends all hate it.</P>


You don't understand how inefficient things get when huge bureaucracies run them. Its not idealogy. Its just the way it is. We need more competition in the system, not less.</P>




okay and canadians have come in here and we've heard it from the horses mouth that they LOVE it
</P>


You have to be kidding me.</P>


What about Danny Williams, the Premier of Newfoundland, coming to the US for heart surgery.</P>


Its meatball healthcare in Canada. And it builds complaisance. Thats the worst thing these kinds of things do. They build a dependence on government that takes away your spirit. Its all over Europe right now. Thats why we outproduce them and they come calling on us when they need military help.</P>


Americans are self reliant. And that attitude creates economic growth and prosperity. Nationalized healthcare and other huge government programs work against that. </P>


The European people have learned to depend on others. Thats why they are weak and needy. Thats why the fiscal crisis is spreading to Spain and Portugal. It will soon find its way to France and the UK.</P>


The "cradle to grave" entitilement society strips the ambition out of people. It will be discredited as time goes byespecially asgovernments go broke.</P>




I just disagree with your general assessment that Americans are self reliant. You have some pretty scary views moorehead, not going to lie.

And I think your living in the past. Americans arent' self reliant anymore.
</P>


And its this attitude that is the biggest problem. "Americans need to be cared for by the federal government". If this is true we are truly doomed.</P>




hate to break it to you, but its what has alreayd happened and shown to be truth.

I'm sorry but its true. First step to solving a problem is identifying it. You've yet to identify that we have fallen from being self reliant
</P>


I wonder how much of our social welfare experiment (which nurtures dependancy on the government) over the past 50 years has to do with it. Well we are in for a rude awakening, because running $1 trillion+ deficits will be the ruin of us. Unless that is dealt with, there will be no safety net in this country. There will only be interest payments to the Chinese.</P>


Then we will be self reliant by need.</P>

dezzzR
02-29-2012, 10:42 AM
Also I just saw a claim recently.

it said the average cost per month for healthcare in Mass (which has done what Obama care is supposed to do just on a state level)

600$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 50 Days - Boston

it was compared to Atlanta which is a more "average" health care system.

200$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 11 Days - Atlanta

so why is the statewide healthcare plan in Mass considered a success if it's increasing cost and lowering quality of care...and if that's the case why did Obama base his plan off that one...and is that what we can all expect for everyone once it starts being implemented on a federal level?
</p>


I live in Mass Daven. I call my doctor at 9:00 and he can see me no later than 11:00. All the Mass. HC law does is insure the small minority that aren't insured now. It has absolutely NO EFFECT on the 95% of people who already have insurance.</p>


My insurance is great actually. We have a low deductable and no co pay. Its because we have good insurance through the market system.</p>


I have no idea where these numbers of yours come from. I live here.</p>


I've never even heard of that. That number is simply for the Obamacare he's quoting, right? I love my insurance, and my company has done a kickass job of making sure we don't get cornholed on the premiums. little to no copays, free prescription drugs basically. My one gripe is with dental coverage, but i've never heard anyone say they like their dental insurance.</p>


I have great dental insurance.</p>




further proof that your experience with healthcare isn't a good sample of the restof the country...

or were u just davening?
</p>


Now you get to be forced to buy HC insurance whether you can afford it or not. Didn't you say last year that you didn't have it because is was too expensive? Starting in 2014, you don't get to decide for yourself. You will be forced to buy insurance from private insurance companies thanks to Obamacare.</p>


My point is that the HC law in Mass. has no effect on the 95% of residents that already have insurance.</p>




yes but, not at 125 dollars a week. Lando was the one that can't afford the insurance. Two jobs ago when I was working for a window and door gallery 7 years ago, I think I was making like 13 an hour on a 40 hour week and it would of cost me 125 bucks a week for insurance.

This is for people caught in those situations and with the unemployment the way it is people who are out of work. So many countries do this and have success. Much like the way Daven started spilling stats of Mass, you had to correct him. Its the same thing that happens when people start talking about how health insurance is other countries that have national healthcare. THEY ALL LOVE IT.

Infact the canucks have poked in on these convos when we have had them multiple times to say they can't believe the amount of people that are against this idea in the states.

It seems like your in a good situation and i'm glad for you and you SHOULD vote against this because obviously it doesn't make sense for you personally - but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense for ALOT of other people. I can't get into the debates with you because I don't know enough facts to argue it because I haven't really been following much lately. But i'll just stick to my general rule of thumb: oppose anything that pappy and daven say

EDIT: isn't obama care being modeled after a successful healthcare model (Mass situation) in which you have just said works for you, but yet ur still not for it??
</p>


My daughter ilves in the UK. She gets the choice of the UK HC system or private insurance provided by the US gov. She says the UK HC system is a nightmare. Essentially any non life threatening conditions usually take 4-6 months for an appt, Obviously, all the US gov. employees choose private insurance.</p>


You don't know how bad it is there Matt. This comes from someone who is there. Not bogus studies by posted by Daven. Her Brit friends all hate it.</p>


You don't understand how inefficient things get when huge bureaucracies run them. Its not idealogy. Its just the way it is. We need more competition in the system, not less.</p>




okay and canadians have come in here and we've heard it from the horses mouth that they LOVE it
</p>


You have to be kidding me.</p>


What about Danny Williams, the Premier of Newfoundland, coming to the US for heart surgery.</p>


Its meatball healthcare in Canada. And it builds complaisance. Thats the worst thing these kinds of things do. They build a dependence on government that takes away your spirit. Its all over Europe right now. Thats why we outproduce them and they come calling on us when they need military help.</p>


Americans are self reliant. And that attitude creates economic growth and prosperity. Nationalized healthcare and other huge government programs work against that. </p>


The European people have learned to depend on others. Thats why they are weak and needy. Thats why the fiscal crisis is spreading to Spain and Portugal. It will soon find its way to France and the UK.</p>


The "cradle to grave" entitilement society strips the ambition out of people. It will be discredited as time goes byespecially asgovernments go broke.</p>

I just disagree with your general assessment that Americans are self reliant. You have some pretty scary views moorehead, not going to lie.

And I think your living in the past. <u>Americans arent' self reliant anymore. </u>
WHAAAAT?!? maybe hippys and people living off welfare. That right there is scarier than ANYTHING mh has stated.


how much money have we borrowed over the past 30 years? Whats the condition of our employment rate? What have we let the medical and academic fields become? Hows our banking and mortgage crisis doing?
<u>
If we were truly self reliant we'd be in a MUCH better place. We have tried to be self reliant but it really hasn't worked.</u>
Its the individual Matt, and it worked for over 200 years until recently. The problem is politicians saying were all victims and we need all these social and federal programs, outsourcing jobs, a war we didnt start, and countless other things.

The founding fathers are rolling in their graves.

MattMeyerBud
02-29-2012, 11:01 AM
Also I just saw a claim recently.

it said the average cost per month for healthcare in Mass (which has done what Obama care is supposed to do just on a state level)

600$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 50 Days - Boston

it was compared to Atlanta which is a more "average" health care system.

200$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 11 Days - Atlanta

so why is the statewide healthcare plan in Mass considered a success if it's increasing cost and lowering quality of care...and if that's the case why did Obama base his plan off that one...and is that what we can all expect for everyone once it starts being implemented on a federal level?
</p>


I live in Mass Daven. I call my doctor at 9:00 and he can see me no later than 11:00. All the Mass. HC law does is insure the small minority that aren't insured now. It has absolutely NO EFFECT on the 95% of people who already have insurance.</p>


My insurance is great actually. We have a low deductable and no co pay. Its because we have good insurance through the market system.</p>


I have no idea where these numbers of yours come from. I live here.</p>


I've never even heard of that. That number is simply for the Obamacare he's quoting, right? I love my insurance, and my company has done a kickass job of making sure we don't get cornholed on the premiums. little to no copays, free prescription drugs basically. My one gripe is with dental coverage, but i've never heard anyone say they like their dental insurance.</p>


I have great dental insurance.</p>




further proof that your experience with healthcare isn't a good sample of the restof the country...

or were u just davening?
</p>


Now you get to be forced to buy HC insurance whether you can afford it or not. Didn't you say last year that you didn't have it because is was too expensive? Starting in 2014, you don't get to decide for yourself. You will be forced to buy insurance from private insurance companies thanks to Obamacare.</p>


My point is that the HC law in Mass. has no effect on the 95% of residents that already have insurance.</p>




yes but, not at 125 dollars a week. Lando was the one that can't afford the insurance. Two jobs ago when I was working for a window and door gallery 7 years ago, I think I was making like 13 an hour on a 40 hour week and it would of cost me 125 bucks a week for insurance.

This is for people caught in those situations and with the unemployment the way it is people who are out of work. So many countries do this and have success. Much like the way Daven started spilling stats of Mass, you had to correct him. Its the same thing that happens when people start talking about how health insurance is other countries that have national healthcare. THEY ALL LOVE IT.

Infact the canucks have poked in on these convos when we have had them multiple times to say they can't believe the amount of people that are against this idea in the states.

It seems like your in a good situation and i'm glad for you and you SHOULD vote against this because obviously it doesn't make sense for you personally - but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense for ALOT of other people. I can't get into the debates with you because I don't know enough facts to argue it because I haven't really been following much lately. But i'll just stick to my general rule of thumb: oppose anything that pappy and daven say

EDIT: isn't obama care being modeled after a successful healthcare model (Mass situation) in which you have just said works for you, but yet ur still not for it??
</p>


My daughter ilves in the UK. She gets the choice of the UK HC system or private insurance provided by the US gov. She says the UK HC system is a nightmare. Essentially any non life threatening conditions usually take 4-6 months for an appt, Obviously, all the US gov. employees choose private insurance.</p>


You don't know how bad it is there Matt. This comes from someone who is there. Not bogus studies by posted by Daven. Her Brit friends all hate it.</p>


You don't understand how inefficient things get when huge bureaucracies run them. Its not idealogy. Its just the way it is. We need more competition in the system, not less.</p>




okay and canadians have come in here and we've heard it from the horses mouth that they LOVE it
</p>


You have to be kidding me.</p>


What about Danny Williams, the Premier of Newfoundland, coming to the US for heart surgery.</p>


Its meatball healthcare in Canada. And it builds complaisance. Thats the worst thing these kinds of things do. They build a dependence on government that takes away your spirit. Its all over Europe right now. Thats why we outproduce them and they come calling on us when they need military help.</p>


Americans are self reliant. And that attitude creates economic growth and prosperity. Nationalized healthcare and other huge government programs work against that. </p>


The European people have learned to depend on others. Thats why they are weak and needy. Thats why the fiscal crisis is spreading to Spain and Portugal. It will soon find its way to France and the UK.</p>


The "cradle to grave" entitilement society strips the ambition out of people. It will be discredited as time goes byespecially asgovernments go broke.</p>

I just disagree with your general assessment that Americans are self reliant. You have some pretty scary views moorehead, not going to lie.

And I think your living in the past. <u>Americans arent' self reliant anymore. </u>
WHAAAAT?!? maybe hippys and people living off welfare. That right there is scarier than ANYTHING mh has stated.


how much money have we borrowed over the past 30 years? Whats the condition of our employment rate? What have we let the medical and academic fields become? Hows our banking and mortgage crisis doing?
<u>
If we were truly self reliant we'd be in a MUCH better place. We have tried to be self reliant but it really hasn't worked.</u>
Its the individual Matt, and it worked for over 200 years until recently. The problem is politicians saying were all victims and we need all these social and federal programs, outsourcing jobs, a war we didnt start, and countless other things.

The founding fathers are rolling in their graves.


oh god.

the founding fathers argument.

Lets get real about the founding fathers as well. **** that was going on 40 years ago in this country, let alone 200 years, can't be applied to the way this world and country is today.

Your right it may of worked for 200 years, did we not hit a ceiling? Are things okay? You guys can spread your Obama hate all you want, but this country's damage wasn't done over night. We were setup to fail so whats that say about what the past 200 years actually did besides just give us 200 years.

The founding fathers might as well of been the authors of the bible as well. Great basic principals to a degree but can't relate to the world we are in today. They probably couldn't even fathom what this world would be like today. None of us can fathom what the world will be like in 200 years from now either.

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 11:03 AM
You posted something like "the average wait time in Mass is 50 days" which is completely bogus.

I posted that I heard that claim, I also posted a link to the source of the claim which admittedly was just a youtube blog video....which is the entire reason I posted it here....to find out the truth from you....and then you rip on me for trying to find out the truth acting like I was saying it as if it were fact.

MattMeyerBud
02-29-2012, 11:05 AM
Also I just saw a claim recently.

it said the average cost per month for healthcare in Mass (which has done what Obama care is supposed to do just on a state level)

600$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 50 Days - Boston

it was compared to Atlanta which is a more "average" health care system.

200$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 11 Days - Atlanta

so why is the statewide healthcare plan in Mass considered a success if it's increasing cost and lowering quality of care...and if that's the case why did Obama base his plan off that one...and is that what we can all expect for everyone once it starts being implemented on a federal level?
</p>


I live in Mass Daven. I call my doctor at 9:00 and he can see me no later than 11:00. All the Mass. HC law does is insure the small minority that aren't insured now. It has absolutely NO EFFECT on the 95% of people who already have insurance.</p>


My insurance is great actually. We have a low deductable and no co pay. Its because we have good insurance through the market system.</p>


I have no idea where these numbers of yours come from. I live here.</p>


I've never even heard of that. That number is simply for the Obamacare he's quoting, right? I love my insurance, and my company has done a kickass job of making sure we don't get cornholed on the premiums. little to no copays, free prescription drugs basically. My one gripe is with dental coverage, but i've never heard anyone say they like their dental insurance.</p>


I have great dental insurance.</p>




further proof that your experience with healthcare isn't a good sample of the restof the country...

or were u just davening?
</p>


Now you get to be forced to buy HC insurance whether you can afford it or not. Didn't you say last year that you didn't have it because is was too expensive? Starting in 2014, you don't get to decide for yourself. You will be forced to buy insurance from private insurance companies thanks to Obamacare.</p>


My point is that the HC law in Mass. has no effect on the 95% of residents that already have insurance.</p>




yes but, not at 125 dollars a week. Lando was the one that can't afford the insurance. Two jobs ago when I was working for a window and door gallery 7 years ago, I think I was making like 13 an hour on a 40 hour week and it would of cost me 125 bucks a week for insurance.

This is for people caught in those situations and with the unemployment the way it is people who are out of work. So many countries do this and have success. Much like the way Daven started spilling stats of Mass, you had to correct him. Its the same thing that happens when people start talking about how health insurance is other countries that have national healthcare. THEY ALL LOVE IT.

Infact the canucks have poked in on these convos when we have had them multiple times to say they can't believe the amount of people that are against this idea in the states.

It seems like your in a good situation and i'm glad for you and you SHOULD vote against this because obviously it doesn't make sense for you personally - but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense for ALOT of other people. I can't get into the debates with you because I don't know enough facts to argue it because I haven't really been following much lately. But i'll just stick to my general rule of thumb: oppose anything that pappy and daven say

EDIT: isn't obama care being modeled after a successful healthcare model (Mass situation) in which you have just said works for you, but yet ur still not for it??
</p>


My daughter ilves in the UK. She gets the choice of the UK HC system or private insurance provided by the US gov. She says the UK HC system is a nightmare. Essentially any non life threatening conditions usually take 4-6 months for an appt, Obviously, all the US gov. employees choose private insurance.</p>


You don't know how bad it is there Matt. This comes from someone who is there. Not bogus studies by posted by Daven. Her Brit friends all hate it.</p>


You don't understand how inefficient things get when huge bureaucracies run them. Its not idealogy. Its just the way it is. We need more competition in the system, not less.</p>




okay and canadians have come in here and we've heard it from the horses mouth that they LOVE it
</p>


You have to be kidding me.</p>


What about Danny Williams, the Premier of Newfoundland, coming to the US for heart surgery.</p>


Its meatball healthcare in Canada. And it builds complaisance. Thats the worst thing these kinds of things do. They build a dependence on government that takes away your spirit. Its all over Europe right now. Thats why we outproduce them and they come calling on us when they need military help.</p>


Americans are self reliant. And that attitude creates economic growth and prosperity. Nationalized healthcare and other huge government programs work against that. </p>


The European people have learned to depend on others. Thats why they are weak and needy. Thats why the fiscal crisis is spreading to Spain and Portugal. It will soon find its way to France and the UK.</p>


The "cradle to grave" entitilement society strips the ambition out of people. It will be discredited as time goes byespecially asgovernments go broke.</p>




I just disagree with your general assessment that Americans are self reliant. You have some pretty scary views moorehead, not going to lie.

And I think your living in the past. Americans arent' self reliant anymore.
</p>


And its this attitude that is the biggest problem. "Americans need to be cared for by the federal government". If this is true we are truly doomed.</p>




hate to break it to you, but its what has alreayd happened and shown to be truth.

I'm sorry but its true. First step to solving a problem is identifying it. You've yet to identify that we have fallen from being self reliant
</p>


I wonder how much of our social welfare experiment (which nurtures dependancy on the government) over the past 50 years has to do with it. Well we are in for a rude awakening, because running $1 trillion+ deficits will be the ruin of us. Unless that is dealt with, there will be no safety net in this country. There will only be interest payments to the Chinese.</p>


Then we will be self reliant by need.</p>

i just looked it up quick.... "Welfare" took up 12% of the national budget

that 12% is made up of:

General retirement and disability insurance Federal employee retirement and disability Unemployment compensation Housing assistance Food and nutrition assistance Other income security

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 11:06 AM
how much money have we borrowed over the past 30 years? Whats the condition of our employment rate? What have we let the medical and academic fields become? Hows our banking and mortgage crisis doing?

If we were truly self reliant we'd be in a MUCH better place. We have tried to be self reliant but it really hasn't worked.


The reason we are in this situation is because over the last 30 years we've become LESS self-reliant....we need to get back to becoming more self-reliant...and the best way to do that is to reduce the size of our government.

So if you agree that we need to be more self-reliant and being more self-reliant means less government...then why are you advocating more government?

Clinton/Bush/Obama have all massively increased the size of government....and now we are in bad shape...how do you not see that reducing the size of government is what we need to do?

you keep saying things like "we tried to be self-reliant" it didn't work???? that's completely bogus...it did work...it worked for more then a hundred years...what happened is we STOPPED being self-reliant...we need to go back to it.

MattMeyerBud
02-29-2012, 11:09 AM
how much money have we borrowed over the past 30 years? Whats the condition of our employment rate? What have we let the medical and academic fields become? Hows our banking and mortgage crisis doing?

If we were truly self reliant we'd be in a MUCH better place. We have tried to be self reliant but it really hasn't worked.


The reason we are in this situation is because over the last 30 years we've become LESS self-reliant....we need to get back to becoming more self-reliant...and the best way to do that is to reduce the size of our government.

So if you agree that we need to be more self-reliant and being more self-reliant means less government...then why are you advocating more government?


how have we become less self reliant?

MattMeyerBud
02-29-2012, 11:10 AM
how much money have we borrowed over the past 30 years? Whats the condition of our employment rate? What have we let the medical and academic fields become? Hows our banking and mortgage crisis doing?

If we were truly self reliant we'd be in a MUCH better place. We have tried to be self reliant but it really hasn't worked.


The reason we are in this situation is because over the last 30 years we've become LESS self-reliant....we need to get back to becoming more self-reliant...and the best way to do that is to reduce the size of our government.

So if you agree that we need to be more self-reliant and being more self-reliant means less government...then why are you advocating more government?

Clinton/Bush/Obama have all massively increased the size of government....and now we are in bad shape...how do you not see that reducing the size of government is what we need to do?

you keep saying things like "we tried to be self-reliant" it didn't work???? that's completely bogus...it did work...it worked for more then a hundred years...what happened is we STOPPED being self-reliant...we need to go back to it.


actually, government jobs have decreased under OBama

dezzzR
02-29-2012, 11:12 AM
Also I just saw a claim recently.

it said the average cost per month for healthcare in Mass (which has done what Obama care is supposed to do just on a state level)

600$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 50 Days - Boston

it was compared to Atlanta which is a more "average" health care system.

200$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 11 Days - Atlanta

so why is the statewide healthcare plan in Mass considered a success if it's increasing cost and lowering quality of care...and if that's the case why did Obama base his plan off that one...and is that what we can all expect for everyone once it starts being implemented on a federal level?
</p>


I live in Mass Daven. I call my doctor at 9:00 and he can see me no later than 11:00. All the Mass. HC law does is insure the small minority that aren't insured now. It has absolutely NO EFFECT on the 95% of people who already have insurance.</p>


My insurance is great actually. We have a low deductable and no co pay. Its because we have good insurance through the market system.</p>


I have no idea where these numbers of yours come from. I live here.</p>


I've never even heard of that. That number is simply for the Obamacare he's quoting, right? I love my insurance, and my company has done a kickass job of making sure we don't get cornholed on the premiums. little to no copays, free prescription drugs basically. My one gripe is with dental coverage, but i've never heard anyone say they like their dental insurance.</p>


I have great dental insurance.</p>




further proof that your experience with healthcare isn't a good sample of the restof the country...

or were u just davening?
</p>


Now you get to be forced to buy HC insurance whether you can afford it or not. Didn't you say last year that you didn't have it because is was too expensive? Starting in 2014, you don't get to decide for yourself. You will be forced to buy insurance from private insurance companies thanks to Obamacare.</p>


My point is that the HC law in Mass. has no effect on the 95% of residents that already have insurance.</p>




yes but, not at 125 dollars a week. Lando was the one that can't afford the insurance. Two jobs ago when I was working for a window and door gallery 7 years ago, I think I was making like 13 an hour on a 40 hour week and it would of cost me 125 bucks a week for insurance.

This is for people caught in those situations and with the unemployment the way it is people who are out of work. So many countries do this and have success. Much like the way Daven started spilling stats of Mass, you had to correct him. Its the same thing that happens when people start talking about how health insurance is other countries that have national healthcare. THEY ALL LOVE IT.

Infact the canucks have poked in on these convos when we have had them multiple times to say they can't believe the amount of people that are against this idea in the states.

It seems like your in a good situation and i'm glad for you and you SHOULD vote against this because obviously it doesn't make sense for you personally - but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense for ALOT of other people. I can't get into the debates with you because I don't know enough facts to argue it because I haven't really been following much lately. But i'll just stick to my general rule of thumb: oppose anything that pappy and daven say

EDIT: isn't obama care being modeled after a successful healthcare model (Mass situation) in which you have just said works for you, but yet ur still not for it??
</p>


My daughter ilves in the UK. She gets the choice of the UK HC system or private insurance provided by the US gov. She says the UK HC system is a nightmare. Essentially any non life threatening conditions usually take 4-6 months for an appt, Obviously, all the US gov. employees choose private insurance.</p>


You don't know how bad it is there Matt. This comes from someone who is there. Not bogus studies by posted by Daven. Her Brit friends all hate it.</p>


You don't understand how inefficient things get when huge bureaucracies run them. Its not idealogy. Its just the way it is. We need more competition in the system, not less.</p>




okay and canadians have come in here and we've heard it from the horses mouth that they LOVE it
</p>


You have to be kidding me.</p>


What about Danny Williams, the Premier of Newfoundland, coming to the US for heart surgery.</p>


Its meatball healthcare in Canada. And it builds complaisance. Thats the worst thing these kinds of things do. They build a dependence on government that takes away your spirit. Its all over Europe right now. Thats why we outproduce them and they come calling on us when they need military help.</p>


Americans are self reliant. And that attitude creates economic growth and prosperity. Nationalized healthcare and other huge government programs work against that. </p>


The European people have learned to depend on others. Thats why they are weak and needy. Thats why the fiscal crisis is spreading to Spain and Portugal. It will soon find its way to France and the UK.</p>


The "cradle to grave" entitilement society strips the ambition out of people. It will be discredited as time goes byespecially asgovernments go broke.</p>

I just disagree with your general assessment that Americans are self reliant. You have some pretty scary views moorehead, not going to lie.

And I think your living in the past. <u>Americans arent' self reliant anymore. </u>
WHAAAAT?!? maybe hippys and people living off welfare. That right there is scarier than ANYTHING mh has stated.


how much money have we borrowed over the past 30 years? Whats the condition of our employment rate? What have we let the medical and academic fields become? Hows our banking and mortgage crisis doing?
<u>
If we were truly self reliant we'd be in a MUCH better place. We have tried to be self reliant but it really hasn't worked.</u>
Its the individual Matt, and it worked for over 200 years until recently. The problem is politicians saying were all victims and we need all these social and federal programs, outsourcing jobs, a war we didnt start, and countless other things.

The founding fathers are rolling in their graves.


oh god.

the founding fathers argument.

Lets get real about the founding fathers as well. **** that was going on 40 years ago in this country, let alone 200 years, can't be applied to the way this world and country is today.

Your right it may of worked for 200 years, did we not hit a ceiling? Are things okay? You guys can spread your Obama hate all you want, but this country's damage wasn't done over night.<u> We were setup to fail so whats that say about what the past 200 years actually did besides just give us 200 years.</u>

The founding fathers might as well of been the authors of the bible as well. Great basic principals to a degree but can't relate to the world we are in today. They probably couldn't even fathom what this world would be like today. None of us can fathom what the world will be like in 200 years from now either.


Giiiive me a break Matt. It was made to fail? Its hitting a ceiling because of all the changes that have been made to this country by both parties and never ending spending. Name one amendment in the constitution that cant be related today. Just one. Ill wait.

And you just said "if we were truly reliant wed be a MUCH better place" so why are you voting for people that want to include more government in your life?????????

MattMeyerBud
02-29-2012, 11:18 AM
And its all a moot point. The American people would never stand for it. As I said, we are a self reliant people. Generally Americans have little or no interest is giving up the freedoms required here to have a single payer system.</p>


</p>


It is what has always seperated us from people from other countries. Self determination is the essential tenent of the American experience. It is precisely that that has created the most prosperous and just society on the planet.</p>


We will NEVER support a more entitled society. We will always choose to control our own destiny. That is what makes us inherantly American.</p>

this is special case though. This isn't just a business thing its a social move as well. I just checked the numbers and nobody knows for real how much it would be a week but estimated to cost hte average american 50 bucks a week in the single pay... i pay about 35 bucks a week as it is.

Its not going to be a major hit. Also my company is owned by a French family. I just asked one dude what he thought of france's system and he said he loved it. I asked which he preferred he said France.

And we have a good healthcare situation here.

just sayin Moorehead, theres plenty of people just as happy with the national system as there are that aren't happy.

I would say that national healthcare would help more people than the current system does and thats why i'm for it.

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 11:18 AM
how have we become less self reliant?

Seriously?

Ok you realize government programs are the opposite of self reliance right? if the government is helping you then you are not being self reliant.....

The government has been supplying more and more help in too many forms to list here...but Welfare and Medicare for example...Social Security (which has been around for a while but the payments have been expanding and the revenue has been shrinking) all these government programs meant to help the poor...their cost is going up...they are paying for more people.

The deregulation of the housing market, again....the government stepping in telling business's (IE Banks) that they HAVE to help out the little guy.

"the road to hell is paved with good intentions" Matt (That's a quote from someone I don't know lol)

the point is the more the government tries to "help" the more people become dependent on that help....and over the last 30 years there has been a massive massive increase in social spending to "help" people....that's stripped those people of their self-reliance and that's why we are in a poor situation.

this is gonna sound like I'm being an *** hole but it's the truth.

people on welfare, people using food stamps, people on unemployment, people living in rent restricted housing etc etc....anyone who needs the governments help SHOULD be embarrassed...they should be trying as hard as they can to be self-reliant....that's what America's built on....people that can handle themselves without help from anyone else (including the government)

But no ones embarrassed anymore, everyone's looking for their peice of the pie, everyones looking for a way to scam the system....and it's a horrible thing...people shouldn't WANT help....but instead people that don't even need help find ways to get it anyhow...and the people that do need it are content with living on it...they don't want to pull themselves out of it.

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 11:28 AM
actually, government jobs have decreased under OBama

First off that's just false, but secondly even if it were true, government spending has still SKYROCKETED to twice what Bush was spending and that was previously by far the highest...
so the actual amount of jobs is sort of a moot point.

MattMeyerBud
02-29-2012, 11:29 AM
how have we become less self reliant?

Seriously?

Ok you realize government programs are the opposite of self reliance right? if the government is helping you then you are not being self reliant.....

The government has been supplying more and more help in too many forms to list here...but Welfare and Medicare for example...Social Security (which has been around for a while but the payments have been expanding and the revenue has been shrinking) all these government programs meant to help the poor...their cost is going up...they are paying for more people.

The deregulation of the housing market, again....the government stepping in telling business's (IE Banks) that they HAVE to help out the little guy.

"the road to hell is paved with good intentions" Matt (That's a quote from someone I don't know lol)

the point is the more the government tries to "help" the more people become dependent on that help....and over the last 30 years there has been a massive massive increase in social spending to "help" people....that's stripped those people of their self-reliance and that's why we are in a poor situation.

this is gonna sound like I'm being an *** hole but it's the truth.

people on welfare, people using food stamps, people on unemployment, people living in rent restricted housing etc etc....anyone who needs the governments help SHOULD be embarrassed...they should be trying as hard as they can to be self-reliant....that's what America's built on....people that can handle themselves without help from anyone else (including the government)

But no ones embarrassed anymore, everyone's looking for their peice of the pie, everyones looking for a way to scam the system....and it's a horrible thing...people shouldn't WANT help....but instead people that don't even need help find ways to get it anyhow...and the people that do need it are content with living on it...they don't want to pull themselves out of it.


i just wanted your answer to walk you through this:

at what point did the government start helping though, thats where you relaly need to start.

Lol your right, you did come off like a spoiled bratty ******* who really have no clue beyond his own eyes. Just curious how do u expect there NOT to be people who need those things wtih the job epidemic in this country.

I'm sorry but this self reliance **** also goes hand and hand wtih greed. Free Market is great, until you get a to a point like this. Theres a reason there isn't jobs available and it isn't because people are on welfare.

Its scary that some people actually beileve the **** that you just said in that. theres bottom feeders with everything in this world, your ignorance shines through when you drop the "EVERYONE IS LOOKING TO SCAM THE SYSTEM". Thats a sick paranoia you have. Plenty of good people can't make ends meet and need help. This whole they odn't want to pull themselves out of it is a ridiculous view point. Honestly you come off like a little rich boy who has no real grasp on anything outside of who you know.

MattMeyerBud
02-29-2012, 11:30 AM
actually, government jobs have decreased under OBama

First off that's just false, but secondly even if it were true, government spending has still SKYROCKETED to twice what Bush was spending and that was previously by far the highest...
so the actual amount of jobs is sort of a moot point.

no its absolutely true and i would love for u to bring up some stat that shows government jobs have increased under obama

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 11:35 AM
I would say that national healthcare would help more people than the current system does and thats why i'm for it.

We will lose doctors, the quality of care logically MUST decrease if you are caring for more people with less doctors.....this is not debatable...if you are ok with more people getting care but everyone getting a lower quality of care that's up to you I guess.

But it will also cost many many jobs...and it removes choice, it also leaves decisions up to people other then your doctor, when you are 50+ and need a transplant but smoked half your life you will be skipped, they will give it to someone else...and it won't matter that you needed it first.

byron
02-29-2012, 11:41 AM
how have we become less self reliant?

Seriously?

Ok you realize government programs are the opposite of self reliance right? if the government is helping you then you are not being self reliant.....

The government has been supplying more and more help in too many forms to list here...but Welfare and Medicare for example...Social Security (which has been around for a while but the payments have been expanding and the revenue has been shrinking) all these government programs meant to help the poor...their cost is going up...they are paying for more people.

The deregulation of the housing market, again....the government stepping in telling business's (IE Banks) that they HAVE to help out the little guy.

"the road to hell is paved with good intentions" Matt (That's a quote from someone I don't know lol)

the point is the more the government tries to "help" the more people become dependent on that help....and over the last 30 years there has been a massive massive increase in social spending to "help" people....that's stripped those people of their self-reliance and that's why we are in a poor situation.

this is gonna sound like I'm being an *** hole but it's the truth.

people on welfare, people using food stamps, people on unemployment, people living in rent restricted housing etc etc....anyone who needs the governments help SHOULD be embarrassed...they should be trying as hard as they can to be self-reliant....that's what America's built on....people that can handle themselves without help from anyone else (including the government)

But no ones embarrassed anymore, everyone's looking for their peice of the pie, everyones looking for a way to scam the system....and it's a horrible thing...people shouldn't WANT help....but instead people that don't even need help find ways to get it anyhow...and the people that do need it are content with living on it...they don't want to pull themselves out of it.


i just wanted your answer to walk you through this:

at what point did the government start helping though, thats where you relaly need to start.

Lol your right, you did come off like a spoiled bratty ******* who really have no clue beyond his own eyes. Just curious how do u expect there NOT to be people who need those things wtih the job epidemic in this country.

I'm sorry but this self reliance **** also goes hand and hand wtih greed. Free Market is great, until you get a to a point like this. Theres a reason there isn't jobs available and it isn't because people are on welfare.

Its scary that some people actually beileve the **** that you just said in that. theres bottom feeders with everything in this world, your ignorance shines through when you drop the "EVERYONE IS LOOKING TO SCAM THE SYSTEM". Thats a sick paranoia you have. Plenty of good people can't make ends meet and need help. This whole they odn't want to pull themselves out of it is a ridiculous view point. Honestly you come off like a little rich boy who has no real grasp on anything outside of who you know.

</P>


Let 'em have itMatt people only want to look at whats right in front of them... why are people more dependent on this gov?how many jobs went down the tubes with this one..."NAFTA" if greed wasn't behind that mother ****er then what was? and if greed wasn't behind it in the beginning it sure kicked in after it passed.....</P>

bigblue4417
02-29-2012, 11:42 AM
<font size="6">SEE WHAT YOU DID MOREHEAD!!!!!!</font>

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 11:42 AM
actually, government jobs have decreased under OBama

First off that's just false, but secondly even if it were true, government spending has still SKYROCKETED to twice what Bush was spending and that was previously by far the highest...
so the actual amount of jobs is sort of a moot point.

no its absolutely true and i would love for u to bring up some stat that shows government jobs have increased under obama


you made the claim, it's your job to support it, but I'll start by talking about the 1270 new full time employee's the IRS is hiring at a cost of 473 Million Dollars for patient protection and the affordable care act....I have a link to the IRS's actual budget request if you want it here.
<a href="http://www.treasury.gov/about/budget-performance/Documents/CJ_FY2012_IRS_508.pdf">
http://www.treasury.gov/about/budget-performance/Documents/CJ_FY2012_IRS_508.pdf</a>

Also go look at the debt clock here
<a href="http://www.usdebtclock.org/index.html">
http://www.usdebtclock.org/index.html</a>

If you doubt my claim that Obama is spending double what Bush did....it's there plain as day.

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 11:48 AM
I'm sorry but this self reliance **** also goes hand and hand wtih greed.

A little bit yes and BOTH of them are driving forces for a GOOD economy and a STRONG country....greed is NOT a bad thing...it's a necessity, greed is good for everyone living in a free market system....from the rich to the poor greed is a GOOD thing.




Its scary that some people actually beileve the **** that you just said in that.

It's scary that there are people that don't understand that what I said up there is a fundemental truth...and that it's not debatable it just is...

You are arguing for an ideological fantasy...something that can not exist in real life....and trying make it exist is detrimental to everyone.



Honestly you come off like a little rich boy who has no real grasp on anything outside of who you know.

Except that you know I'm not a rich boy who has no real grasp on anything....you know me...you know i've worked my whole life, you know I've had my serious money issues (house fire lawsuit) you know that I've lived on Ramen Noodles and Rice for years you know I've been through the ****....so ask yourself, why do I still have this opinion?

Honestly I think it's you whose coming off as the sheltered boy, the naive kid...you are the one who has his eye's closed...not me.

JPizzack
02-29-2012, 11:52 AM
I would say that national healthcare would help more people than the current system does and thats why i'm for it.

We will lose doctors, the quality of care logically MUST decrease if you are caring for more people with less doctors.....this is not debatable...if you are ok with more people getting care but everyone getting a lower quality of care that's up to you I guess.

But it will also cost many many jobs...and it removes choice, it also leaves decisions up to people other then your doctor, when you are 50+ and need a transplant but smoked half your life you will be skipped, they will give it to someone else...and it won't matter that you needed it first.
</P>


why do you continue to write off the first hand opinions of people who have both been insured free by govt, and privately here...and say natiional healthcare is better?
yousay "logically" but you dont know that for sure, since we cant predict immediately less doctors. It's like guaranteed work lol. </P>

MattMeyerBud
02-29-2012, 11:54 AM
can't talk no more... **** just got real with a family drama.. be back later

dezzzR
02-29-2012, 11:54 AM
how have we become less self reliant?

Seriously?

Ok you realize government programs are the opposite of self reliance right? if the government is helping you then you are not being self reliant.....

The government has been supplying more and more help in too many forms to list here...but Welfare and Medicare for example...Social Security (which has been around for a while but the payments have been expanding and the revenue has been shrinking) all these government programs meant to help the poor...their cost is going up...they are paying for more people.

The deregulation of the housing market, again....the government stepping in telling business's (IE Banks) that they HAVE to help out the little guy.

"the road to hell is paved with good intentions" Matt (That's a quote from someone I don't know lol)

the point is the more the government tries to "help" the more people become dependent on that help....and over the last 30 years there has been a massive massive increase in social spending to "help" people....that's stripped those people of their self-reliance and that's why we are in a poor situation.

this is gonna sound like I'm being an *** hole but it's the truth.

people on welfare, people using food stamps, people on unemployment, people living in rent restricted housing etc etc....anyone who needs the governments help SHOULD be embarrassed...they should be trying as hard as they can to be self-reliant....that's what America's built on....people that can handle themselves without help from anyone else (including the government)

But no ones embarrassed anymore, everyone's looking for their peice of the pie, everyones looking for a way to scam the system....and it's a horrible thing...people shouldn't WANT help....but instead people that don't even need help find ways to get it anyhow...and the people that do need it are content with living on it...they don't want to pull themselves out of it.
I dont think people should be embarrassed, this country is in the ****ter and a lot of people need help. BUT everything else is spot on, especially the last paragraph.

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 11:55 AM
I would say that national healthcare would help more people than the current system does and thats why i'm for it.

We will lose doctors, the quality of care logically MUST decrease if you are caring for more people with less doctors.....this is not debatable...if you are ok with more people getting care but everyone getting a lower quality of care that's up to you I guess.

But it will also cost many many jobs...and it removes choice, it also leaves decisions up to people other then your doctor, when you are 50+ and need a transplant but smoked half your life you will be skipped, they will give it to someone else...and it won't matter that you needed it first.
</p>


why do you continue to write off the first hand opinions of people who have both been insured free by govt, and privately here...and say natiional healthcare is better?
yousay "logically" but you dont know that for sure, since we cant predict immediately less doctors. It's like guaranteed work lol. </p>

No I do know that for sure, That why I keep saying logically...because it's a god damned math problem Pizz.

More patients+less Doctors = lower quality of care...period end of story there is no discussion to be had.

I'm not saying people can't think it's better there are plenty that do just as there are plenty that think it's worse.

the reason I'm writing it off is because there is an equal amount of circumstantial evidence for and against it when asking people who have lived in both systems....it's wipes clean.

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 12:00 PM
I dont think people should be embarrassed, this country is in the ****ter and a lot of people need help. BUT everything else is spot on, especially the last paragraph.


If people are content in living on unemployment medicare/medicaid and eventually social security...what reason do they have to go out there and better themselves, get a job...what's their motivation.

the point is if you are embarrassed to be on these programs you have the drive to stop needing them, you actively pursue any lead, but because soo many people are on it now and because the pay is so much above what is needed to live (and I know that for a fact) people are not actively pursuing opportunities.

I can't tell you how many people I know could have had a job but choose to turn it down because it'd be less or only marginally more then their unemployment benefits.

people are content to live off the government....no one cares about being their own person anymore.

Kase-1
02-29-2012, 12:00 PM
Forget high deductables, co-pays and long lines at the Dr office. Ya know whats REALLY rough, not having insurance

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 12:04 PM
Forget high deductables, co-pays and long lines at the Dr office. Ya know whats REALLY rough, not having insurance


Yeah, it sucks, but they can not refuse you, if you show up at the ER they will treat you, yes you will have some heinous bills to pay...but you can do monthly installments worse comes to worse you may have to go bankrupt...

whats worse then a small percentage of Americans not having insurance though is a reduction in the quality of care for ALL Americans just to cover the small portion who don't have it.

PS: Lunch Time.

dezzzR
02-29-2012, 12:05 PM
Forget high deductables, co-pays and long lines at the Dr office. Ya know whats REALLY rough, not having insurance
sick rangaz game the other night.

dezzzR
02-29-2012, 12:08 PM
Forget high deductables, co-pays and long lines at the Dr office. Ya know whats REALLY rough, not having insurance


Yeah, it sucks, but they can not refuse you, if you show up at the ER they will treat you, yes you will have some heinous bills to pay...but you can do monthly installments worse comes to worse you may have to go bankrupt...

<u>whats worse then a small percentage of Americans not having insurance though is a reduction in the quality of care for ALL Americans just to cover the small portion who don't have it.</u>

PS: Lunch Time.
and there you have it folks....

dezzzR
02-29-2012, 12:09 PM
<h6 class="uiStreamMessage uiStreamHeadline"><div class="actorDescription actorName" data-ft="{&quot;type&quot;:2}">In Reese We Trust (http://www.facebook.com/pages/In-Reese-We-Trust/204765974855)</div></h6><h6 class="uiStreamMessage" data-ft="{&quot;type&quot;:1}"> <span class="messageBody" data-ft="{&quot;type&quot;:3}">The
Raiders are $20 million over the projected cap. They have a lot of work
to do to get under the cap. One of the players that might be a cap
casualty is Rolando McClain. Should the Giants pursue if he becomes
available?</span></h6>

Kase-1
02-29-2012, 12:10 PM
Forget high deductables, co-pays and long lines at the Dr office. Ya know whats REALLY rough, not having insurance


Yeah, it sucks, but they can not refuse you, if you show up at the ER they will treat you, yes you will have some heinous bills to pay...but you can do monthly installments worse comes to worse you may have to go bankrupt...

whats worse then a small percentage of Americans not having insurance though is a reduction in the quality of care for ALL Americans just to cover the small portion who don't have it.

PS: Lunch Time.
You obviously have health insurance and pay a reasonable amount

Next time you have a minute and see how much private out of pocket health insurance is for 1 person, its DISGUSTING

And I totally disagree, it may be worse for YOU, but as a whole, the country would be much better off if we had nationwide healthcare. I think you guys can afford an extra $3 on prescriptions when you compare that situation to those who cant afford the most basic health insurance.

If we're gonna claim to be the best country in the world, we gotta help our own people 1st

Kase-1
02-29-2012, 12:13 PM
Forget high deductables, co-pays and long lines at the Dr office. Ya know whats REALLY rough, not having insurance
sick rangaz game the other night.
I missed it, I was up in VT doing some GREAT skiing in waist deep powder. Just got home last nite

Gotta say, Im THRILLED that we didnt get Nash, Colombus wanted too much for him

Morehead State
02-29-2012, 12:15 PM
Also I just saw a claim recently.

it said the average cost per month for healthcare in Mass (which has done what Obama care is supposed to do just on a state level)

600$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 50 Days - Boston

it was compared to Atlanta which is a more "average" health care system.

200$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 11 Days - Atlanta

so why is the statewide healthcare plan in Mass considered a success if it's increasing cost and lowering quality of care...and if that's the case why did Obama base his plan off that one...and is that what we can all expect for everyone once it starts being implemented on a federal level?
</P>


I live in Mass Daven. I call my doctor at 9:00 and he can see me no later than 11:00. All the Mass. HC law does is insure the small minority that aren't insured now. It has absolutely NO EFFECT on the 95% of people who already have insurance.</P>


My insurance is great actually. We have a low deductable and no co pay. Its because we have good insurance through the market system.</P>


I have no idea where these numbers of yours come from. I live here.</P>


I've never even heard of that. That number is simply for the Obamacare he's quoting, right? I love my insurance, and my company has done a kickass job of making sure we don't get cornholed on the premiums. little to no copays, free prescription drugs basically. My one gripe is with dental coverage, but i've never heard anyone say they like their dental insurance.</P>


I have great dental insurance.</P>




further proof that your experience with healthcare isn't a good sample of the restof the country...

or were u just davening?
</P>


Now you get to be forced to buy HC insurance whether you can afford it or not. Didn't you say last year that you didn't have it because is was too expensive? Starting in 2014, you don't get to decide for yourself. You will be forced to buy insurance from private insurance companies thanks to Obamacare.</P>


My point is that the HC law in Mass. has no effect on the 95% of residents that already have insurance.</P>




yes but, not at 125 dollars a week. Lando was the one that can't afford the insurance. Two jobs ago when I was working for a window and door gallery 7 years ago, I think I was making like 13 an hour on a 40 hour week and it would of cost me 125 bucks a week for insurance.

This is for people caught in those situations and with the unemployment the way it is people who are out of work. So many countries do this and have success. Much like the way Daven started spilling stats of Mass, you had to correct him. Its the same thing that happens when people start talking about how health insurance is other countries that have national healthcare. THEY ALL LOVE IT.

Infact the canucks have poked in on these convos when we have had them multiple times to say they can't believe the amount of people that are against this idea in the states.

It seems like your in a good situation and i'm glad for you and you SHOULD vote against this because obviously it doesn't make sense for you personally - but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense for ALOT of other people. I can't get into the debates with you because I don't know enough facts to argue it because I haven't really been following much lately. But i'll just stick to my general rule of thumb: oppose anything that pappy and daven say

EDIT: isn't obama care being modeled after a successful healthcare model (Mass situation) in which you have just said works for you, but yet ur still not for it??
</P>


My daughter ilves in the UK. She gets the choice of the UK HC system or private insurance provided by the US gov. She says the UK HC system is a nightmare. Essentially any non life threatening conditions usually take 4-6 months for an appt, Obviously, all the US gov. employees choose private insurance.</P>


You don't know how bad it is there Matt. This comes from someone who is there. Not bogus studies by posted by Daven. Her Brit friends all hate it.</P>


You don't understand how inefficient things get when huge bureaucracies run them. Its not idealogy. Its just the way it is. We need more competition in the system, not less.</P>




okay and canadians have come in here and we've heard it from the horses mouth that they LOVE it
</P>


You have to be kidding me.</P>


What about Danny Williams, the Premier of Newfoundland, coming to the US for heart surgery.</P>


Its meatball healthcare in Canada. And it builds complaisance. Thats the worst thing these kinds of things do. They build a dependence on government that takes away your spirit. Its all over Europe right now. Thats why we outproduce them and they come calling on us when they need military help.</P>


Americans are self reliant. And that attitude creates economic growth and prosperity. Nationalized healthcare and other huge government programs work against that. </P>


The European people have learned to depend on others. Thats why they are weak and needy. Thats why the fiscal crisis is spreading to Spain and Portugal. It will soon find its way to France and the UK.</P>


The "cradle to grave" entitilement society strips the ambition out of people. It will be discredited as time goes byespecially asgovernments go broke.</P>




I just disagree with your general assessment that Americans are self reliant. You have some pretty scary views moorehead, not going to lie.

And I think your living in the past. Americans arent' self reliant anymore.
</P>


And its this attitude that is the biggest problem. "Americans need to be cared for by the federal government". If this is true we are truly doomed.</P>




hate to break it to you, but its what has alreayd happened and shown to be truth.

I'm sorry but its true. First step to solving a problem is identifying it. You've yet to identify that we have fallen from being self reliant
</P>


I wonder how much of our social welfare experiment (which nurtures dependancy on the government) over the past 50 years has to do with it. Well we are in for a rude awakening, because running $1 trillion+ deficits will be the ruin of us. Unless that is dealt with, there will be no safety net in this country. There will only be interest payments to the Chinese.</P>


Then we will be self reliant by need.</P>

i just looked it up quick.... "Welfare" took up 12% of the national budget

that 12% is made up of:



<LI>General retirement and disability insurance
<LI>Federal employee retirement and disability
<LI>Unemployment compensation
<LI>Housing assistance
<LI>Food and nutrition assistance
<LI>Other income security</LI>





</P>


I'm not talking about "welfare" I'm talking about all social welfare programs.</P>


Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. And now Obamacare.</P>


The projections are that these will explode if left unattended over the next 10 to 20 years.</P>

Kase-1
02-29-2012, 12:22 PM
<h6 class="uiStreamMessage uiStreamHeadline"><div class="actorDescription actorName" data-ft="{&quot;type&quot;:2}">In Reese We Trust (http://www.facebook.com/pages/In-Reese-We-Trust/204765974855)</div></h6><h6 class="uiStreamMessage" data-ft="{&quot;type&quot;:1}"> <span class="messageBody" data-ft="{&quot;type&quot;:3}">The
Raiders are $20 million over the projected cap. They have a lot of work
to do to get under the cap. One of the players that might be a cap
casualty is Rolando McClain. Should the Giants pursue if he becomes
available?</span></h6>Id like him on the field, but dont we have enough gun violence in the Tri-State??

"Police said the victim told them that McClain, now a linebacker with the
NFL's Oakland Raiders, put a pistol to his head while he was lying on
the ground, and fired a shot next to his ear after he begged McClain not
to shoot him"

dezzzR
02-29-2012, 12:29 PM
<h6 class="uiStreamMessage uiStreamHeadline"><div class="actorDescription actorName" data-ft="{&quot;type&quot;:2}">In Reese We Trust (http://www.facebook.com/pages/In-Reese-We-Trust/204765974855)</div></h6><h6 class="uiStreamMessage" data-ft="{&quot;type&quot;:1}"> <span class="messageBody" data-ft="{&quot;type&quot;:3}">The
Raiders are $20 million over the projected cap. They have a lot of work
to do to get under the cap. One of the players that might be a cap
casualty is Rolando McClain. Should the Giants pursue if he becomes
available?</span></h6>Id like him on the field, but dont we have enough gun violence in the Tri-State??

"Police said the victim told them that McClain, now a linebacker with the
NFL's Oakland Raiders, put a pistol to his head while he was lying on
the ground, and fired a shot next to his ear after he begged McClain not
to shoot him"
sounds like a bad *** to me. loljk

indeed, we do have a lot of ILLEGAL gun violence.

Kase-1
02-29-2012, 12:31 PM
<h6 class="uiStreamMessage uiStreamHeadline"><div class="actorDescription actorName" data-ft="{&quot;type&quot;:2}">In Reese We Trust (http://www.facebook.com/pages/In-Reese-We-Trust/204765974855)</div></h6><h6 class="uiStreamMessage" data-ft="{&quot;type&quot;:1}"> <span class="messageBody" data-ft="{&quot;type&quot;:3}">The
Raiders are $20 million over the projected cap. They have a lot of work
to do to get under the cap. One of the players that might be a cap
casualty is Rolando McClain. Should the Giants pursue if he becomes
available?</span></h6>Id like him on the field, but dont we have enough gun violence in the Tri-State??

"Police said the victim told them that McClain, now a linebacker with the
NFL's Oakland Raiders, put a pistol to his head while he was lying on
the ground, and fired a shot next to his ear after he begged McClain not
to shoot him"
sounds like a bad *** to me. loljk

indeed, we do have a lot of ILLEGAL gun violence.
If he was an animal on the field and a ghost off of it, that would be GREAT.

Too bad it seems like he's a knucklehead, cmon we've all been in fights in our lives but being a 1st round NFL talent and then pulling out a gun in a fight and then shooting it next to someone's ear to scare em like you're Omar from 'The Wire' has gotta raise some red flags

byron
02-29-2012, 12:31 PM
Forget high deductables, co-pays and long lines at the Dr office. Ya know whats REALLY rough, not having insurance


Yeah, it sucks, but they can not refuse you, if you show up at the ER they will treat you, yes you will have some heinous bills to pay...but you can do monthly installments worse comes to worse you may have to go bankrupt...

whats worse then a small percentage of Americans not having insurance though is a reduction in the quality of care for ALL Americans just to cover the small portion who don't have it.

PS: Lunch Time.
You obviously have health insurance and pay a reasonable amount

Next time you have a minute and see how much private out of pocket health insurance is for 1 person, its DISGUSTING

And I totally disagree, it may be worse for YOU, but as a whole, the country would be much better off if we had nationwide healthcare. I think you guys can afford an extra $3 on prescriptions when you compare that situation to those who cant afford the most basic health insurance.

If we're gonna claim to be the best country in the world, we gotta help our own people 1st
</P>


Daven wants all the health care for himself.....my wife works for the federal gov...VA....we pay for part of our health insurance.....Federal Blue cross blue shieldits like an 80 % plan with copays and such....last year it <FONT color=#ffffff>notcost</FONT> us $5179.00 or about431.00 bucks a month...I don't consider this cheap and there is no way we will be able to keep this when she retires.... I have been paying for SS all working life and you can bet your *** I'll be drawing it down one day soon..or they can give me my money back </P>

Kase-1
02-29-2012, 12:39 PM
Forget high deductables, co-pays and long lines at the Dr office. Ya know whats REALLY rough, not having insurance


Yeah, it sucks, but they can not refuse you, if you show up at the ER they will treat you, yes you will have some heinous bills to pay...but you can do monthly installments worse comes to worse you may have to go bankrupt...

whats worse then a small percentage of Americans not having insurance though is a reduction in the quality of care for ALL Americans just to cover the small portion who don't have it.

PS: Lunch Time.
You obviously have health insurance and pay a reasonable amount

Next time you have a minute and see how much private out of pocket health insurance is for 1 person, its DISGUSTING

And I totally disagree, it may be worse for YOU, but as a whole, the country would be much better off if we had nationwide healthcare. I think you guys can afford an extra $3 on prescriptions when you compare that situation to those who cant afford the most basic health insurance.

If we're gonna claim to be the best country in the world, we gotta help our own people 1st
</p>


Daven wants all the health care for himself.....my wife works for the federal gov...VA....we pay for part of our health insurance.....Federal Blue cross blue shieldits like an 80 % plan with copays and such....last year it <font color="#ffffff">notcost</font> us $5179.00 or about431.00 bucks a month...I don't consider this cheap and there is no way we will be able to keep this when she retires.... I have been paying for SS all working life and you can bet your *** I'll be drawing it down one day soon..or they can give me my money back </p>And if I wanted to pay out of pocket for something like Healthy NY or a crappy bottom of the barrel insurance plan it would be nearly the same price, FOR 1 PERSON!!!!!

bigblue4417
02-29-2012, 12:40 PM
indeed, we do have a lot of ILLEGAL gun violence.

As Plaxico stands rights beneath that post. LMAO!!!

JPizzack
02-29-2012, 12:41 PM
Forget high deductables, co-pays and long lines at the Dr office. Ya know whats REALLY rough, not having insurance


Yeah, it sucks, but they can not refuse you, if you show up at the ER they will treat you, yes you will have some heinous bills to pay...but you can do monthly installments worse comes to worse you may have to go bankrupt...

whats worse then a small percentage of Americans not having insurance though is a reduction in the quality of care for ALL Americans just to cover the small portion who don't have it.

PS: Lunch Time.
You obviously have health insurance and pay a reasonable amount

Next time you have a minute and see how much private out of pocket health insurance is for 1 person, its DISGUSTING

And I totally disagree, it may be worse for YOU, but as a whole, the country would be much better off if we had nationwide healthcare. I think you guys can afford an extra $3 on prescriptions when you compare that situation to those who cant afford the most basic health insurance.

If we're gonna claim to be the best country in the world, we gotta help our own people 1st
</P>


BingOOOO</P>

dezzzR
02-29-2012, 12:41 PM
<h6 class="uiStreamMessage uiStreamHeadline"><div class="actorDescription actorName" data-ft="{&quot;type&quot;:2}">In Reese We Trust (http://www.facebook.com/pages/In-Reese-We-Trust/204765974855)</div></h6><h6 class="uiStreamMessage" data-ft="{&quot;type&quot;:1}"> <span class="messageBody" data-ft="{&quot;type&quot;:3}">The
Raiders are $20 million over the projected cap. They have a lot of work
to do to get under the cap. One of the players that might be a cap
casualty is Rolando McClain. Should the Giants pursue if he becomes
available?</span></h6>Id like him on the field, but dont we have enough gun violence in the Tri-State??

"Police said the victim told them that McClain, now a linebacker with the
NFL's Oakland Raiders, put a pistol to his head while he was lying on
the ground, and fired a shot next to his ear after he begged McClain not
to shoot him"
sounds like a bad *** to me. loljk

indeed, we do have a lot of ILLEGAL gun violence.
If he was an animal on the field and a ghost off of it, that would be GREAT.

Too bad it seems like he's a knucklehead, cmon we've all been in fights in our lives but being a 1st round NFL talent and then<u> pulling out a gun in a fight and then shooting it next to someone's ear to scare em like you're Omar from 'The Wire' has gotta raise some red flags</u>

lol

JPizzack
02-29-2012, 12:45 PM
Daven wants all the health care for himself.....my wife works for the federal gov...VA....we pay for part of our health insurance.....Federal Blue cross blue shieldits like an 80 % plan with copays and such....last year it <FONT color=#ffffff>notcost</FONT> us $5179.00 or about431.00 bucks a month...I don't consider this cheap and there is no way we will be able to keep this when she retires.... I have been paying for SS all working life and you can bet your *** I'll be drawing it down one day soon..or they can give me my money back </P>


</P>


oh jeez...you just brought a whooooooole 2nd issue into it!! lol
SS benefits. It's such a depressing moment every year when I get my SS statement that shows me my lifetime contribution, and how much my monthly benefit would be should i retire, or should i become permanently disabled, It's a nice chunk of change considering how long i've been working, and I'm only 28.....
....and then I have to think about how I'll never see that money ever again because it will be depleted=(</P>

byron
02-29-2012, 12:55 PM
Forget high deductables, co-pays and long lines at the Dr office. Ya know whats REALLY rough, not having insurance


Yeah, it sucks, but they can not refuse you, if you show up at the ER they will treat you, yes you will have some heinous bills to pay...but you can do monthly installments worse comes to worse you may have to go bankrupt...

whats worse then a small percentage of Americans not having insurance though is a reduction in the quality of care for ALL Americans just to cover the small portion who don't have it.

PS: Lunch Time.
You obviously have health insurance and pay a reasonable amount

Next time you have a minute and see how much private out of pocket health insurance is for 1 person, its DISGUSTING

And I totally disagree, it may be worse for YOU, but as a whole, the country would be much better off if we had nationwide healthcare. I think you guys can afford an extra $3 on prescriptions when you compare that situation to those who cant afford the most basic health insurance.

If we're gonna claim to be the best country in the world, we gotta help our own people 1st
</P>


Daven wants all the health care for himself.....my wife works for the federal gov...VA....we pay for part of our health insurance.....Federal Blue cross blue shieldits like an 80 % plan with copays and such....last year it <FONT color=#ffffff>notcost</FONT> us $5179.00 or about431.00 bucks a month...I don't consider this cheap and there is no way we will be able to keep this when she retires.... I have been paying for SS all working life and you can bet your *** I'll be drawing it down one day soon..or they can give me my money back </P>And if I wanted to pay out of pocket for something like Healthy NY or a crappy bottom of the barrel insurance plan it would be nearly the same price, FOR 1 PERSON!!!!!
I hear ya Kase...There was a time Kase when almost every desent job can with Insurance as part of the pay when I worked at the shipyard 70/80's "Blue Cross" was at no cost to workers ....over time companies reeled it in employers found ways not to have to have it through loop holes in the regulations...its not a simple mess this country inyou can't point to one thing as a fix the whole thing...its a mess plain and simple....

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 12:58 PM
</p>


Daven wants all the health care for himself.....my wife works for the federal gov...VA....we pay for part of our health insurance.....Federal Blue cross blue shieldits like an 80 % plan with copays and such....last year it <font color="#ffffff">notcost</font> us $5179.00 or about431.00 bucks a month...I don't consider this cheap and there is no way we will be able to keep this when she retires.... I have been paying for SS all working life and you can bet your *** I'll be drawing it down one day soon..or they can give me my money back </p>

I have no problem with you getting benefits Byron, you've payed into the system you deserve it, I have a problem with people who've never had a job or never had a job for a significant amount of time mooching off people like you and I because they are comfortable living on unemployment, shopping with food stamps and soon enough having "free" health care that you and I pay for.

when it comes to Social Security...again I think you should get yours, what I want with SS is to be able to opt out, I've been paying in for 14 years already (I know a drop in the bucket compared to you but it's not nothing) I'm willing to decline ALL my Social Security in order to just stop paying for it now, the problem is I'm going to be paying for it for another 40+ years from here on out and I'm 95% sure I'm never gonna see a dime of it...the system has been broken for years and no one wants to fix it....so let me opt out, If I'm wrong and it's there and I don't get it....that's my problem, if it's not there and I was right I saved 40 years of payments towards something that will not exist.

dezzzR
02-29-2012, 01:02 PM
Is Rolle worth 9 million next year?

Morehead State
02-29-2012, 01:04 PM
</P>


Daven wants all the health care for himself.....my wife works for the federal gov...VA....we pay for part of our health insurance.....Federal Blue cross blue shieldits like an 80 % plan with copays and such....last year it <FONT color=#ffffff>notcost</FONT> us $5179.00 or about431.00 bucks a month...I don't consider this cheap and there is no way we will be able to keep this when she retires.... I have been paying for SS all working life and you can bet your *** I'll be drawing it down one day soon..or they can give me my money back </P>




I have no problem with you getting benefits Byron, you've payed into the system you deserve it, I have a problem with people who've never had a job or never had a job for a significant amount of time mooching off people like you and me because they are comfortable living on unemployment, shopping with food stamps and soon enough having "free" health care that you and me pay for.

when it comes to Social Security...again I think you should get yours, what I want with SS is to be able to opt out, I've been paying in for 14 years already (I know a drop in the bucket compared to you but it's not nothing) I'm willing to decline ALL my Social Security in order to just stop paying for it now, the problem is I'm going to be paying for it for another 40+ years from here on out and I'm 95% sure I'm never gonna see a dime of it...the system has been broken for years and no one wants to fix it....so let me opt out.
</P>


Sorry Byron..you money was stolen by the Congess, starting in 1982 when the SS went into the black. A total of $2.6 trillion (thats trillion) has been reappropriated into the general fund, showing the illusion of a lower deficit or even a surplus for the 4 years starting in 1998.</P>


That money you paid in (along with mine) went to the general fund for things like national defense, education, Medicade and all the other government programs that were funded.</P>


We now have to rely on people like Matt to pay our SS. In other words, we better have a lot of savings. </P>

ny06
02-29-2012, 01:06 PM
Is Rolle worth 9 million next year?

</P>


No. </P>


But that's not a shot at the player Rolle is. </P>


What he did this last season for us was great. He played out of position pretty much all season. </P>


I think they should restructure his contract, there is only one safety in this league I would pay 9 million a season. And he plays for the Ravens. </P>


http://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/ed-reed-1.jpg</P>

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 01:06 PM
You obviously have health insurance and pay a reasonable amount

Next time you have a minute and see how much private out of pocket health insurance is for 1 person, its DISGUSTING

Yes I have my own I pay like 70$ a paycheck for single coverage....yes it's pretty reasonable and it's through my work, I also know people who have their own private insurance...they pay about double what I pay...yes that sucks, but you missed my point, you don't HAVE to have Health Insurance an Emergency room can not turn you away if you are in need of care regardless of your insurance situation....yes you will end up having huge bills but it's not as though they will leave you to die.



And I totally disagree, it may be worse for YOU, but as a whole, the
country would be much better off if we had nationwide healthcare. I
think you guys can afford an extra $3 on prescriptions when you compare
that situation to those who cant afford the most basic health insurance.

I wouldn't mind the 3$ extra per prescription....that's a non-issue, the problem is the wait time, right now there is a certain amount of doctors for certain amount of patients...if you nationalize the healthcare and cover everyone you are talking about millions of more patients with the same (or likely less because their pay will go down if it's government run) Doctors.....

I'm worried about a decrease in the quality of care that the 90% of Americans that current HAVE health care will see....not a miniscule increase in price....I think in general for "America" nationalized healthcare is BAD....for a small percentage it is good I guess....but it's not worth it.





If we're gonna claim to be the best country in the world, we gotta help our own people 1st

We ARE the best...that's why people come here for it...leaders from other countries...they come here because they know we are the best, do some fall through the cracks because of the system...yes...but this system provides the BEST for the most amount of Americans, no system is perfect, the system you want will provide mediocre care for all Americans and I'm not ok with that.

Kase-1
02-29-2012, 01:10 PM
I have a problem with people who've never had a job or never had a job for a significant amount of time mooching off people like you and me because they are comfortable living on unemployment, shopping with food stamps and soon enough having "free" health care that you and me pay for.


Who are those people???

Unemployment is based upon what you earned at your last job (and there is a cap), its not like they just randomly throw money at these people and 2ndly unemployment isnt something you can live on, ESPECIALLY in the Tri-State Area

And BTW they tax unemployment

byron
02-29-2012, 01:13 PM
Daven wants all the health care for himself.....my wife works for the federal gov...VA....we pay for part of our health insurance.....Federal Blue cross blue shieldits like an 80 % plan with copays and such....last year it <FONT color=#ffffff>notcost</FONT> us $5179.00 or about431.00 bucks a month...I don't consider this cheap and there is no way we will be able to keep this when she retires.... I have been paying for SS all working life and you can bet your *** I'll be drawing it down one day soon..or they can give me my money back </P>


</P>


oh jeez...you just brought a whooooooole 2nd issue into it!! lol
SS benefits. It's such a depressing moment every year when I get my SS statement that shows me my lifetime contribution, and how much my monthly benefit would be should i retire, or should i become permanently disabled, It's a nice chunk of change considering how long i've been working, and I'm only 28.....
....and then I have to think about how I'll never see that money ever again because it will be depleted=(</P> Its a system they should fix some how... I'd say they are in to deep to get rid of it....I'm looking at maybe 700.00 bucks if I make it to 67...which I doubt will happen I'll have draw out early And I will without any regrets at all These *******s should have been fixes on this**** a long time ago....Its just one of the manyproblems in a long list of things thats wrong with the system "they created" but lack the will to fix ...How many billions have we spent to bail the banks out this time so far?!!?...How many billions did we spent in Iraq!?! How many jobs went south with Nafta? and the list goes on and on....they made this mess...Its time like Kase says to take care of our own and do it without *****ing....this is America we are supost to take of our own...

Kase-1
02-29-2012, 01:24 PM
You obviously have health insurance and pay a reasonable amount

Next time you have a minute and see how much private out of pocket health insurance is for 1 person, its DISGUSTING

Yes I have my own I pay like 70$ a paycheck for single coverage....yes it's pretty reasonable and it's through my work, I also know people who have their own private insurance...they pay about double what I pay...yes that sucks, but you missed my point, you don't HAVE to have Health Insurance an Emergency room can not turn you away if you are in need of care regardless of your insurance situation....yes you will end up having huge bills but it's not as though they will leave you to die.



And I totally disagree, it may be worse for YOU, but as a whole, the
country would be much better off if we had nationwide healthcare. I
think you guys can afford an extra $3 on prescriptions when you compare
that situation to those who cant afford the most basic health insurance.

I wouldn't mind the 3$ extra per prescription....that's a non-issue, the problem is the wait time, right now there is a certain amount of doctors for certain amount of patients...if you nationalize the healthcare and cover everyone you are talking about millions of more patients with the same (or likely less because their pay will go down if it's government run) Doctors.....

I'm worried about a decrease in the quality of care that the 90% of Americans that current HAVE health care will see....not a miniscule increase in price....I think in general for "America" nationalized healthcare is BAD....for a small percentage it is good I guess....but it's not worth it.





If we're gonna claim to be the best country in the world, we gotta help our own people 1st

We ARE the best...that's why people come here for it...leaders from other countries...they come here because they know we are the best, do some fall through the cracks because of the system...yes...but this system provides the BEST for the most amount of Americans, no system is perfect, the system you want will provide mediocre care for all Americans and I'm not ok with that.
You dont think there would be more private practices and WAY more people going into the healthcare field if they gave free healthcare??

90% Id say thats BS

And we are the best so why doesnt our country have healthcare for all of its residents??

Why would healthcare all of a sudden go from Great to mediocre, because the '10%' that you talk about would flood the system?? If anything it would create a ton of jobs

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 01:24 PM
Who are those people???

6 of the 10 people I know personally who are on it? It's growing...one case for example, a guy I Bowl with, he works as a bartender at a golf club seasonally every year it's agreed upon he will get fired and then he collects unemployment for the off-season...he told me this, he talked about how funny it was, he makes like 400$ a week...yeah it's not a lot, but for him it's enough to bowl and gamble all year until he works again....this is not a one off story...it's becoming more and more common...and whats even MORE common is people who had good jobs got laid off are collecting substantially more then 400$ a week on unemployment, they are offered jobs for less then what their unemployment is and they refuse them....just happened to a friend I was trying to get a job for where I work...one of our IT guys left for china i got my friends resume brought it in, they loved it, he said they weren't willing to pay him enough and didn't take the job....he's been unemployed for 6+ Months.


Unemployment is based upon what you earned at your last job (and there is a cap)

I know this


its not like they just randomly throw money at these people and 2ndly unemployment isnt something you can live on, ESPECIALLY in the Tri-State Area

they kinda are, and it is enough to live on in the tri-state area...I was living on less then what I see some of these unemployment checks are for when first moved out of my parents place when I was 20...and I had a decent job.


And BTW they tax unemployment

Which means nothing because the unemployment money you are receiving came from taxes in the first place.

byron
02-29-2012, 01:24 PM
</P>


Daven wants all the health care for himself.....my wife works for the federal gov...VA....we pay for part of our health insurance.....Federal Blue cross blue shieldits like an 80 % plan with copays and such....last year it <FONT color=#ffffff>notcost</FONT> us $5179.00 or about431.00 bucks a month...I don't consider this cheap and there is no way we will be able to keep this when she retires.... I have been paying for SS all working life and you can bet your *** I'll be drawing it down one day soon..or they can give me my money back </P>




I have no problem with you getting benefits Byron, you've payed into the system you deserve it, I have a problem with people who've never had a job or never had a job for a significant amount of time mooching off people like you and me because they are comfortable living on unemployment, shopping with food stamps and soon enough having "free" health care that you and me pay for.

when it comes to Social Security...again I think you should get yours, what I want with SS is to be able to opt out, I've been paying in for 14 years already (I know a drop in the bucket compared to you but it's not nothing) I'm willing to decline ALL my Social Security in order to just stop paying for it now, the problem is I'm going to be paying for it for another 40+ years from here on out and I'm 95% sure I'm never gonna see a dime of it...the system has been broken for years and no one wants to fix it....so let me opt out.
</P>


Sorry Byron..you money was stolen by the Congess, starting in 1982 when the SS went into the black. A total of $2.6 trillion (thats trillion) has been reappropriated into the general fund, showing the illusion of a lower deficit or even a surplus for the 4 years starting in 1998.</P>


That money you paid in (along with mine) went to the general fund for things like national defense, education, Medicade and all the other government programs that were funded.</P>


We now have to rely on people like Matt to pay our SS. In other words, we better have a lot of savings. </P>I'm sure yourright, but it don't make it right...its justanother case of this gov not doing the right thing and now not trying to fix it ...Some of ussadly don't have big savings so we'll be at the mercy of things to come .....I'll do what I got to do if it means dieing on my feet....

JPizzack
02-29-2012, 01:25 PM
</P>


Daven wants all the health care for himself.....my wife works for the federal gov...VA....we pay for part of our health insurance.....Federal Blue cross blue shieldits like an 80 % plan with copays and such....last year it <FONT color=#ffffff>notcost</FONT> us $5179.00 or about431.00 bucks a month...I don't consider this cheap and there is no way we will be able to keep this when she retires.... I have been paying for SS all working life and you can bet your *** I'll be drawing it down one day soon..or they can give me my money back </P>




I have no problem with you getting benefits Byron, you've payed into the system you deserve it, I have a problem with people who've never had a job or never had a job for a significant amount of time mooching off people like you and me because they are comfortable living on unemployment, shopping with food stamps and soon enough having "free" health care that you and me pay for.

when it comes to Social Security...again I think you should get yours, what I want with SS is to be able to opt out, I've been paying in for 14 years already (I know a drop in the bucket compared to you but it's not nothing) I'm willing to decline ALL my Social Security in order to just stop paying for it now, the problem is I'm going to be paying for it for another 40+ years from here on out and I'm 95% sure I'm never gonna see a dime of it...the system has been broken for years and no one wants to fix it....so let me opt out.
</P>


Sorry Byron..you money was stolen by the Congess, starting in 1982 when the SS went into the black. A total of $2.6 trillion (thats trillion) has been reappropriated into the general fund, showing the illusion of a lower deficit or even a surplus for the 4 years starting in 1998.</P>


That money you paid in (along with mine) went to the general fund for things like national defense, education, Medicade and all the other government programs that were funded.</P>


We now have to rely on people like Matt to pay our SS. In other words, we better have a lot of savings. </P>


</P>


Yea, so not only do we(people my age, matt, daven, dezz, lando etc.)have to live in a broken system, not broken by us of course, or even my generation, but we're paying for it, and willreap zero benefit of it. And you complain? that's rich.
You'll collect. It's my generation that's ****ed.
And also that people do often end up collecting more than they ever put in...but that's unavoidable. You cant just stop paying people, so....</P>

Morehead State
02-29-2012, 01:26 PM
You obviously have health insurance and pay a reasonable amount

Next time you have a minute and see how much private out of pocket health insurance is for 1 person, its DISGUSTING

Yes I have my own I pay like 70$ a paycheck for single coverage....yes it's pretty reasonable and it's through my work, I also know people who have their own private insurance...they pay about double what I pay...yes that sucks, but you missed my point, you don't HAVE to have Health Insurance an Emergency room can not turn you away if you are in need of care regardless of your insurance situation....yes you will end up having huge bills but it's not as though they will leave you to die.



And I totally disagree, it may be worse for YOU, but as a whole, the country would be much better off if we had nationwide healthcare. I think you guys can afford an extra $3 on prescriptions when you compare that situation to those who cant afford the most basic health insurance.

I wouldn't mind the 3$ extra per prescription....that's a non-issue, the problem is the wait time, right now there is a certain amount of doctors for certain amount of patients...if you nationalize the healthcare and cover everyone you are talking about millions of more patients with the same (or likely less because their pay will go down if it's government run) Doctors.....

I'm worried about a decrease in the quality of care that the 90% of Americans that current HAVE health care will see....not a miniscule increase in price....I think in general for "America" nationalized healthcare is BAD....for a small percentage it is good I guess....but it's not worth it.




If we're gonna claim to be the best country in the world, we gotta help our own people 1st

We ARE the best...that's why people come here for it...leaders from other countries...they come here because they know we are the best, do some fall through the cracks because of the system...yes...but this system provides the BEST for the most amount of Americans, no system is perfect, the system you want will provide mediocre care for all Americans and I'm not ok with that.
You dont think there would be more private practices and WAY more people going into the healthcare field if they gave free healthcare??

90% Id say thats BS

And we are the best so why doesnt our country have healthcare for all of its residents??

Why would healthcare all of a sudden go from Great to mediocre, because the '10%' that you talk about would flood the system?? If anything it would create a ton of jobs
</P>


Fee healthcare? Whats that? How is it possible?</P>


And who is they?</P>

dezzzR
02-29-2012, 01:28 PM
dammit pizzle. snookie is prego. you take my balls out of your mouth for one night a look what happens!!

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 01:29 PM
You dont think there would be more private practices and WAY more people going into the healthcare field if they gave free healthcare??

90% Id say thats BS

And we are the best so why doesnt our country have healthcare for all of its residents??

Why would healthcare all of a sudden go from Great to mediocre, because the '10%' that you talk about would flood the system?? If anything it would create a ton of jobs


It would create jobs that no one would want, when Obama care passed there was a sharp decrease in people who signed up for any type of Medical Degree in colleges across America, the government will pay doctors ****, Doctors already hate Medicare because they never get payed a fair amount, Obama Care is just Medicare times 10...there will be far fewer Doctors...and the people that become doctors will not be as qualified, and there will be more patients....hence a decrease in the quality of health care for everyone.

having the best health care as a country and every single citzen having health care have nothing to do with each other...the best means we can cure the most diseases we have the best technology and the best doctors....90% of Americans get the best quality of health care in the world....(and really it's 100% because like I said they can not deny you even if you don't have Health Insurance anyhow)

dezzzR
02-29-2012, 01:31 PM
</p>


Daven wants all the health care for himself.....my wife works for the federal gov...VA....we pay for part of our health insurance.....Federal Blue cross blue shieldits like an 80 % plan with copays and such....last year it <font color="#ffffff">notcost</font> us $5179.00 or about431.00 bucks a month...I don't consider this cheap and there is no way we will be able to keep this when she retires.... I have been paying for SS all working life and you can bet your *** I'll be drawing it down one day soon..or they can give me my money back </p>




I have no problem with you getting benefits Byron, you've payed into the system you deserve it, I have a problem with people who've never had a job or never had a job for a significant amount of time mooching off people like you and me because they are comfortable living on unemployment, shopping with food stamps and soon enough having "free" health care that you and me pay for.

when it comes to Social Security...again I think you should get yours, what I want with SS is to be able to opt out, I've been paying in for 14 years already (I know a drop in the bucket compared to you but it's not nothing) I'm willing to decline ALL my Social Security in order to just stop paying for it now, the problem is I'm going to be paying for it for another 40+ years from here on out and I'm 95% sure I'm never gonna see a dime of it...the system has been broken for years and no one wants to fix it....so let me opt out.
</p>


Sorry Byron..you money was stolen by the Congess, starting in 1982 when the SS went into the black. A total of $2.6 trillion (thats trillion) has been reappropriated into the general fund, showing the illusion of a lower deficit or even a surplus for the 4 years starting in 1998.</p>


That money you paid in (along with mine) went to the general fund for things like national defense, education, Medicade and all the other government programs that were funded.</p>


We now have to rely on people like Matt to pay our SS. In other words, we better have a lot of savings. </p>


</p>


Yea, so not only do we(people my age, matt, daven, dezz, lando etc.)have to live in a broken system, not broken by us of course, or even my generation, but we're paying for it, and willreap zero benefit of it. <u>And you complain? that's rich. </u>
You'll collect. It's my generation that's ****ed.
And also that people do often end up collecting more than they ever put in...but that's unavoidable. You cant just stop paying people, so....</p><font color="#FF0000">maybe mh feels bad for us. ever think of that</font>



he has a daughter or two that could be effected by this

JPizzack
02-29-2012, 01:31 PM
I'm sure yourright, but it don't make it right...its justanother case of this gov not doing the right thing and now not trying to fix it ...Some of ussadly don't have big savings so we'll be at the mercy of things to come .....I'll do what I got to do if it means dieing on my feet....</P>


yea, we talk about how we're self-reliant, or whatever....
but....some jobs used to have pensions. Good luck finding a job with that type of benefit.
Not only do I have to try harder to find a good job, in a ****ty economy, more sothan my parents ever had to, but since I wont get a pension of any sort, and Social Security won't be available to me...I have to do all my own retirement planning. And wouldn't you know...I don't really make enough money to sock away a reasonable amount of retirement money right now? What a cycle!!</P>

Morehead State
02-29-2012, 01:32 PM
</P>


Daven wants all the health care for himself.....my wife works for the federal gov...VA....we pay for part of our health insurance.....Federal Blue cross blue shieldits like an 80 % plan with copays and such....last year it <FONT color=#ffffff>notcost</FONT> us $5179.00 or about431.00 bucks a month...I don't consider this cheap and there is no way we will be able to keep this when she retires.... I have been paying for SS all working life and you can bet your *** I'll be drawing it down one day soon..or they can give me my money back </P>




I have no problem with you getting benefits Byron, you've payed into the system you deserve it, I have a problem with people who've never had a job or never had a job for a significant amount of time mooching off people like you and me because they are comfortable living on unemployment, shopping with food stamps and soon enough having "free" health care that you and me pay for.

when it comes to Social Security...again I think you should get yours, what I want with SS is to be able to opt out, I've been paying in for 14 years already (I know a drop in the bucket compared to you but it's not nothing) I'm willing to decline ALL my Social Security in order to just stop paying for it now, the problem is I'm going to be paying for it for another 40+ years from here on out and I'm 95% sure I'm never gonna see a dime of it...the system has been broken for years and no one wants to fix it....so let me opt out.
</P>


Sorry Byron..you money was stolen by the Congess, starting in 1982 when the SS went into the black. A total of $2.6 trillion (thats trillion) has been reappropriated into the general fund, showing the illusion of a lower deficit or even a surplus for the 4 years starting in 1998.</P>


That money you paid in (along with mine) went to the general fund for things like national defense, education, Medicade and all the other government programs that were funded.</P>


We now have to rely on people like Matt to pay our SS. In other words, we better have a lot of savings. </P>


</P>


Yea, so not only do we(people my age, matt, daven, dezz, lando etc.)have to live in a broken system, not broken by us of course, or even my generation, but we're paying for it, and willreap zero benefit of it. And you complain? that's rich.
You'll collect. It's my generation that's ****ed.
And also that people do often end up collecting more than they ever put in...but that's unavoidable. You cant just stop paying people, so....</P>


</P>


And yet you seem to be encouraging a system that not only is more of the same, but actually doubles down. You are saying "expand the existing mindset, allow the inefficient bureaucracy of the federal government to expand its role" Its a recipe for disaster.</P>


The reality is that only markets and competition can reduce costs and improve service. But we have a rigged system that reduces that competition.</P>

Kase-1
02-29-2012, 01:32 PM
Fee healthcare? Whats that? How is it possible?</p>


And who is they?</p>Forgive me I meant National Health Care, not 'free'

JPizzack
02-29-2012, 01:33 PM
<FONT color=#ff0000>maybe mh feels bad for us. ever think of that</FONT>



he has a daughter or two that could be effected by this
</P>


MH doesn't feel bad for you, you little ****! =]</P>

Morehead State
02-29-2012, 01:34 PM
I'm sure yourright, but it don't make it right...its justanother case of this gov not doing the right thing and now not trying to fix it ...Some of ussadly don't have big savings so we'll be at the mercy of things to come .....I'll do what I got to do if it means dieing on my feet....</P>


yea, we talk about how we're self-reliant, or whatever....
but....some jobs used to have pensions. Good luck finding a job with that type of benefit.
Not only do I have to try harder to find a good job, in a ****ty economy, more sothan my parents ever had to, but since I wont get a pension of any sort, and Social Security won't be available to me...I have to do all my own retirement planning. And wouldn't you know...I don't really make enough money to sock away a reasonable amount of retirement money right now? What a cycle!!</P>


</P>


Every American has access to either a 401K or an IRA. I say expand the IRA system and allow all savings to grow tax free. Pesions are unsustaiable in todays mobile economy. If you pay into and IRA or 401K, you can be a millionaire by the time comes to retire.</P>

dezzzR
02-29-2012, 01:35 PM
<font color="#ff0000">maybe mh feels bad for us. ever think of that</font>



he has a daughter or two that could be effected by this
</p>


MH doesn't feel bad for you, you little ****! =]</p>no, im the "biggest mutt of all" lol

Morehead State
02-29-2012, 01:36 PM
<FONT color=#ff0000>maybe mh feels bad for us. ever think of that</FONT>



he has a daughter or two that could be effected by this
</P>


MH doesn't feel bad for you, you little ****! =]</P>


</P>


My daughter is worth more than me. She's not stupid enough to rely on the government. They have taken control of their lives. She saves and pays into her 401K. Its called being "self reliant".</P>

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 01:36 PM
</p>


Daven wants all the health care for himself.....my wife works for the federal gov...VA....we pay for part of our health insurance.....Federal Blue cross blue shieldits like an 80 % plan with copays and such....last year it <font color="#ffffff">notcost</font> us $5179.00 or about431.00 bucks a month...I don't consider this cheap and there is no way we will be able to keep this when she retires.... I have been paying for SS all working life and you can bet your *** I'll be drawing it down one day soon..or they can give me my money back </p>




I have no problem with you getting benefits Byron, you've payed into the system you deserve it, I have a problem with people who've never had a job or never had a job for a significant amount of time mooching off people like you and me because they are comfortable living on unemployment, shopping with food stamps and soon enough having "free" health care that you and me pay for.

when it comes to Social Security...again I think you should get yours, what I want with SS is to be able to opt out, I've been paying in for 14 years already (I know a drop in the bucket compared to you but it's not nothing) I'm willing to decline ALL my Social Security in order to just stop paying for it now, the problem is I'm going to be paying for it for another 40+ years from here on out and I'm 95% sure I'm never gonna see a dime of it...the system has been broken for years and no one wants to fix it....so let me opt out.
</p>


Sorry Byron..you money was stolen by the Congess, starting in 1982 when the SS went into the black. A total of $2.6 trillion (thats trillion) has been reappropriated into the general fund, showing the illusion of a lower deficit or even a surplus for the 4 years starting in 1998.</p>


That money you paid in (along with mine) went to the general fund for things like national defense, education, Medicade and all the other government programs that were funded.</p>


We now have to rely on people like Matt to pay our SS. In other words, we better have a lot of savings. </p>


</p>


Yea, so not only do we(people my age, matt, daven, dezz, lando etc.)have to live in a broken system, not broken by us of course, or even my generation, but we're paying for it, and willreap zero benefit of it. <u>And you complain? that's rich. </u>
You'll collect. It's my generation that's ****ed.
And also that people do often end up collecting more than they ever put in...but that's unavoidable. You cant just stop paying people, so....</p><font color="#FF0000">maybe mh feels bad for us. ever think of that</font>



he has a daughter or two that could be effected by this


Morehead's daughters are smarter then that, they will have savings they will be fine, the annoying part is that MH knows, MH's daughter knows, I know, everyone knows that we will not get the money we put in now back but we have to play along with the charade that we will and keep on putting in....

Morehead State
02-29-2012, 01:37 PM
</P>


Daven wants all the health care for himself.....my wife works for the federal gov...VA....we pay for part of our health insurance.....Federal Blue cross blue shieldits like an 80 % plan with copays and such....last year it <FONT color=#ffffff>notcost</FONT> us $5179.00 or about431.00 bucks a month...I don't consider this cheap and there is no way we will be able to keep this when she retires.... I have been paying for SS all working life and you can bet your *** I'll be drawing it down one day soon..or they can give me my money back </P>




I have no problem with you getting benefits Byron, you've payed into the system you deserve it, I have a problem with people who've never had a job or never had a job for a significant amount of time mooching off people like you and me because they are comfortable living on unemployment, shopping with food stamps and soon enough having "free" health care that you and me pay for.

when it comes to Social Security...again I think you should get yours, what I want with SS is to be able to opt out, I've been paying in for 14 years already (I know a drop in the bucket compared to you but it's not nothing) I'm willing to decline ALL my Social Security in order to just stop paying for it now, the problem is I'm going to be paying for it for another 40+ years from here on out and I'm 95% sure I'm never gonna see a dime of it...the system has been broken for years and no one wants to fix it....so let me opt out.
</P>


Sorry Byron..you money was stolen by the Congess, starting in 1982 when the SS went into the black. A total of $2.6 trillion (thats trillion) has been reappropriated into the general fund, showing the illusion of a lower deficit or even a surplus for the 4 years starting in 1998.</P>


That money you paid in (along with mine) went to the general fund for things like national defense, education, Medicade and all the other government programs that were funded.</P>


We now have to rely on people like Matt to pay our SS. In other words, we better have a lot of savings. </P>


</P>


Yea, so not only do we(people my age, matt, daven, dezz, lando etc.)have to live in a broken system, not broken by us of course, or even my generation, but we're paying for it, and willreap zero benefit of it. <U>And you complain? that's rich. </U>
You'll collect. It's my generation that's ****ed.
And also that people do often end up collecting more than they ever put in...but that's unavoidable. You cant just stop paying people, so....</P>


<FONT color=#ff0000>maybe mh feels bad for us. ever think of that</FONT>



he has a daughter or two that could be effected by this


Morehead's daughters are smarter then that, they will have savings they will be fine, the annoying part is that MH knows, MH's daughter knows, I know, everyone knows that we will not get the money we put in now back but we have to play along with the charade that we will and keep on putting in....
</P>


Sing it Scrappy!</P>

byron
02-29-2012, 01:39 PM
</P>


Daven wants all the health care for himself.....my wife works for the federal gov...VA....we pay for part of our health insurance.....Federal Blue cross blue shieldits like an 80 % plan with copays and such....last year it <FONT color=#ffffff>notcost</FONT> us $5179.00 or about431.00 bucks a month...I don't consider this cheap and there is no way we will be able to keep this when she retires.... I have been paying for SS all working life and you can bet your *** I'll be drawing it down one day soon..or they can give me my money back </P>




I have no problem with you getting benefits Byron, you've payed into the system you deserve it, I have a problem with people who've never had a job or never had a job for a significant amount of time mooching off people like you and me because they are comfortable living on unemployment, shopping with food stamps and soon enough having "free" health care that you and me pay for.

when it comes to Social Security...again I think you should get yours, what I want with SS is to be able to opt out, I've been paying in for 14 years already (I know a drop in the bucket compared to you but it's not nothing) I'm willing to decline ALL my Social Security in order to just stop paying for it now, the problem is I'm going to be paying for it for another 40+ years from here on out and I'm 95% sure I'm never gonna see a dime of it...the system has been broken for years and no one wants to fix it....so let me opt out.
</P>


Sorry Byron..you money was stolen by the Congess, starting in 1982 when the SS went into the black. A total of $2.6 trillion (thats trillion) has been reappropriated into the general fund, showing the illusion of a lower deficit or even a surplus for the 4 years starting in 1998.</P>


That money you paid in (along with mine) went to the general fund for things like national defense, education, Medicade and all the other government programs that were funded.</P>


We now have to rely on people like Matt to pay our SS. In other words, we better have a lot of savings. </P>


</P>


Yea, so not only do we(people my age, matt, daven, dezz, lando etc.)have to live in a broken system, not broken by us of course, or even my generation, but we're paying for it, and willreap zero benefit of it. And you complain? that's rich.
You'll collect. It's my generation that's ****ed.
And also that people do often end up collecting more than they ever put in...but that's unavoidable. You cant just stop paying people, so....</P> Like Daven says maybe an opt out of sorts as long as you do prepare for the future...I mean you could opt out spend the money never pay a dime to retirement, retire and live off all the aid programs out there and people would do that....I think they need to fix it, its a program all readyin the system that employs thousands of people make the thing work it guarantees at leastthat those who do work all their live's havesomething at the end ...not all jobs pay enough to to invest in other things other plans ...many people are just surviving with low paying jobs...

JPizzack
02-29-2012, 01:41 PM
I'm sure yourright, but it don't make it right...its justanother case of this gov not doing the right thing and now not trying to fix it ...Some of ussadly don't have big savings so we'll be at the mercy of things to come .....I'll do what I got to do if it means dieing on my feet....</P>


yea, we talk about how we're self-reliant, or whatever....
but....some jobs used to have pensions. Good luck finding a job with that type of benefit.
Not only do I have to try harder to find a good job, in a ****ty economy, more sothan my parents ever had to, but since I wont get a pension of any sort, and Social Security won't be available to me...I have to do all my own retirement planning. And wouldn't you know...I don't really make enough money to sock away a reasonable amount of retirement money right now? What a cycle!!</P>


</P>


Every American has access to either a 401K or an IRA. I say expand the IRA system and allow all savings to grow tax free. Pesions are unsustaiable in todays mobile economy. If you pay into and IRA or 401K, you can be a millionaire by the time comes to retire.</P>


</P>


I would agree 100% to that....IF we didnt have to pay into Social Security.
I'm already in a high tax bracket. How much of my actual income am I supposed to live on? I already lose 39% in taxes, SSand deductions (some of which I myself choose to like life insurance, my medical insurances, 401k etc.). If i keep increasing my contributions (which btw, are not guaranteed growth), I can't really afford to live anything other than a paycheck to paycheck lifestyle.
Now, most regular bank/CU IRAs are guaranteed/insured. but 1) interest rates are absolute **** right now, and B) youre either taxed up front (roth) or at withdrawal(traditional).
So how do middle and midlowclass effectively plan for retirement? And god forbid you have kids! lol</P>

JPizzack
02-29-2012, 01:44 PM
Like Daven says maybe an opt out of sorts as long as you do prepare for the future...I mean you could opt out spend the money never pay a dime to retirement, retire and live off all the aid programs out there and people would do that....I think they need to fix it, its a program all readyin the system that employs thousands of people make the thing work it guarantees at leastthat those who do work all their live's havesomething at the end ...not all jobs pay enough to to invest in other things other plans ...many people are just surviving with low paying jobs...</P>


hell.****ing.yes

If someone told me I had to take all my SS money and put it into a retirement account. I say where do I sign up, and how do I become first in line!!

I've actually been hoping for this to happen for the past 10 years to be honest lol</P>

dezzzR
02-29-2012, 01:45 PM
I'm sure yourright, but it don't make it right...its justanother case of this gov not doing the right thing and now not trying to fix it ...Some of ussadly don't have big savings so we'll be at the mercy of things to come .....I'll do what I got to do if it means dieing on my feet....</p>


yea, we talk about how we're self-reliant, or whatever....
but....some jobs used to have pensions. Good luck finding a job with that type of benefit.
Not only do I have to try harder to find a good job, in a ****ty economy, more sothan my parents ever had to, but since I wont get a pension of any sort, and Social Security won't be available to me...I have to do all my own retirement planning. And wouldn't you know...I don't really make enough money to sock away a reasonable amount of retirement money right now? What a cycle!!</p>


</p>


Every American has access to either a 401K or an IRA. I say expand the IRA system and allow all savings to grow tax free. Pesions are unsustaiable in todays mobile economy. If you pay into and IRA or 401K, you can be a millionaire by the time comes to retire.</p>


</p>


I would agree 100% to that....IF we didnt have to pay into Social Security.
I'm already in a high tax bracket. How much of my actual income am I supposed to live on? I already lose 39% in taxes, SSand deductions (some of which I myself choose to like life insurance, my medical insurances, 401k etc.). If i keep increasing my contributions (which btw, are not guaranteed growth), I can't really afford to live anything other than a paycheck to paycheck lifestyle.
Now, most regular bank/CU IRAs are guaranteed/insured. but 1) interest rates are absolute **** right now, and B) youre either taxed up front (roth) or at withdrawal(traditional).
So how do middle and midlowclass effectively plan for retirement? And god forbid you have kids! lol</p>Rich or poor, giving the gov 40% of what you make is ludicrous!

Morehead State
02-29-2012, 01:46 PM
I'm sure yourright, but it don't make it right...its justanother case of this gov not doing the right thing and now not trying to fix it ...Some of ussadly don't have big savings so we'll be at the mercy of things to come .....I'll do what I got to do if it means dieing on my feet....</P>


yea, we talk about how we're self-reliant, or whatever....
but....some jobs used to have pensions. Good luck finding a job with that type of benefit.
Not only do I have to try harder to find a good job, in a ****ty economy, more sothan my parents ever had to, but since I wont get a pension of any sort, and Social Security won't be available to me...I have to do all my own retirement planning. And wouldn't you know...I don't really make enough money to sock away a reasonable amount of retirement money right now? What a cycle!!</P>


</P>


Every American has access to either a 401K or an IRA. I say expand the IRA system and allow all savings to grow tax free. Pesions are unsustaiable in todays mobile economy. If you pay into and IRA or 401K, you can be a millionaire by the time comes to retire.</P>


</P>


I would agree 100% to that....IF we didnt have to pay into Social Security.
I'm already in a high tax bracket. How much of my actual income am I supposed to live on? I already lose 39% in taxes, SSand deductions (some of which I myself choose to like life insurance, my medical insurances, 401k etc.). If i keep increasing my contributions (which btw, are not guaranteed growth), I can't really afford to live anything other than a paycheck to paycheck lifestyle.
Now, most regular bank/CU IRAs are guaranteed/insured. but 1) interest rates are absolute **** right now, and B) youre either taxed up front (roth) or at withdrawal(traditional).
So how do middle and midlowclass effectively plan for retirement? And god forbid you have kids! lol</P>


</P>


The Repulicans offered a bill several years ago that would give a tax payer the option of having a part of their SS tax put in a fund that would be invested in safe funds. These accounts would be the property of the taxpayer and could be willed. They can't be confiscated by the government for any reason.</P>


The Democratic response was that the GOP wanted to throw old people in the street. You have just proposed the exact same program. There is hope for you.</P>

JPizzack
02-29-2012, 01:47 PM
by the way, MH....I agree about what you said about tax free growth on these types of accounts. We're already taxed on the income...and someone like me who doesn't have a home, or any ****-trophies....i dont get deductions or credits at tax time. my tax returns are a whopping $500-600!! yay!!
-__-
Funny how as soon as i finished school, and essentially paid off my school debt, and MAKE money, and pay MORE taxes, that i dont get anything back</P>

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 01:50 PM
The Repulicans offered a bill several years ago that would give a tax payer the option of having a part of their SS tax put in a fund that would be invested in safe funds. These accounts would be the property of the taxpayer and could be willed. They can't be confiscated by the government for any reason.</p>


The Democratic response was that the GOP wanted to throw old people in the street. You have just proposed the exact same program. There is hope for you.</p>

I remember that, I was so disappointed, I thought that bill was a step in the right direction, but Democratic fear mongering killed it :(

Morehead State
02-29-2012, 01:51 PM
by the way, MH....I agree about what you said about tax free growth on these types of accounts. We're already taxed on the income...and someone like me who doesn't have a home, or any ****-trophies....i dont get deductions or credits at tax time. my tax returns are a whopping $500-600!! yay!!
-__-
Funny how as soon as i finished school, and essentially paid off my school debt, and MAKE money, and pay MORE taxes, that i dont get anything back</P>


</P>


If you do your taxes right (which we don't either) you shouldn't have a tax return. Its an interest free loan we are giving to the government. That aside. there should be no deductions and only a few rates. Lower rates with the top rate no more than 25%. That induces people to live their lives as they choose without reward/penalty for certain behaviors. Its called liberty. They try to manipulate our behavior with the tax code. Otherwise known as social engineering. Thats called tyranny.</P>


Plus that way, no rich people can evade taxes like our tax code allows now.</P>

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 01:53 PM
hell.****ing.yes



If someone told me I had to take all my SS money and put it into a retirement account.</p>at this point I'm willing to just give up on what I've payed into SS for 15 years....just so I don't have to do it for another 40...**** it they can have however many thousands (Tens of Thousands?) of dollars I've payed in...I don't care...I'm never getting it back anyhow....just let me stop paying..please.

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 01:55 PM
If you do your taxes right (which we don't either) you shouldn't have a tax return. Its an interest free loan we are giving to the government. That aside. there should be no deductions and only a few rates. Lower rates with the top rate no more than 25%. That induces people to live their lives as they choose without reward/penalty for certain behaviors. Its called liberty. They try to manipulate our behavior with the tax code. Otherwise known as social engineering. Thats called tyranny.</p>


Plus that way, no rich people can evade taxes like our tax code allows now.</p>

This!
A million times this!

....I wish I could Upvote on these forums.

Morehead State
02-29-2012, 02:00 PM
Friggin snowing like crazy here.</P>


I don't know how, but it has to be Obama's fault.</P>

byron
02-29-2012, 02:03 PM
The Repulicans offered a bill several years ago that would give a tax payer the option of having a part of their SS tax put in a fund that would be invested in safe funds. These accounts would be the property of the taxpayer and could be willed. They can't be confiscated by the government for any reason.</P>


The Democratic response was that the GOP wanted to throw old people in the street. You have just proposed the exact same program. There is hope for you.</P>

I remember that, I was so disappointed, I thought that bill was a step in the right direction, but Democratic fear mongering killed it :(


It all boils down to the two parties coming/working together to come up with plan "good plan"/laws that will work for the people they serve ....there has to be compromise and such for that to happen.... Its to left and right and its killing this country because the will to work together just isn't there ....the people of this country need these ****s tostop playing politics and get thisthing straightened up....

Morehead State
02-29-2012, 02:08 PM
The Repulicans offered a bill several years ago that would give a tax payer the option of having a part of their SS tax put in a fund that would be invested in safe funds. These accounts would be the property of the taxpayer and could be willed. They can't be confiscated by the government for any reason.</P>


The Democratic response was that the GOP wanted to throw old people in the street. You have just proposed the exact same program. There is hope for you.</P>




I remember that, I was so disappointed, I thought that bill was a step in the right direction, but Democratic fear mongering killed it :(


It all boils down to the two parties coming/working together to come up with plan "good plan"/laws that will work for the people they serve ....there has to be compromise and such for that to happen.... Its to left and right and its killing this country because the will to work together just isn't there ....the people of this country need these ****s tostop playing politics and get thisthing straightened up....</P>


The "compromise" the Dems want will still bankrupt the country. Just may take a year or two longer.</P>


The reality is that there is a fundamental difference in philosophy between the parties. It has been enhanced by the horrible condition of our fiscal house. There has to be a fight about this.</P>


Entitlements must be completely overhauled, but the Dems are only willing to nip around the edges.</P>


The basic disagreement is that the GOP doesn't think the government (in other words taxpayers)should be in the business of giving money to people who don't need it. The Dems do. The GOP wants a safety net for those who need it but not a cradle to grave entitlement society as the Dems want.</P>


As I said, this is worth fighting for.</P>

JPizzack
02-29-2012, 02:08 PM
The Repulicans offered a bill several years ago that would give a tax payer the option of having a part of their SS tax put in a fund that would be invested in safe funds. These accounts would be the property of the taxpayer and could be willed. They can't be confiscated by the government for any reason.


The Democratic response was that the GOP wanted to throw old people in the street. You have just proposed the exact same program. There is hope for you.</P>


</P>


no no no....it's either all or nothing.
There's plenty of money still left for people collecting TO collect still. I will NOT be putting money in the pot for anyone else if I cant ever see it again.
It's not throwing old ppl in the street. it's giving them what they are still entitled, and giving the unlucky ones (me), a way to save OUR OWN money from being squandered by people who cant control it apparently.

So, what happened to this bill when we had a repub in office for 8 years? or with a repub majority? Seems like it would have made it in somehow, no?</P>

Morehead State
02-29-2012, 02:13 PM
The Repulicans offered a bill several years ago that would give a tax payer the option of having a part of their SS tax put in a fund that would be invested in safe funds. These accounts would be the property of the taxpayer and could be willed. They can't be confiscated by the government for any reason.


The Democratic response was that the GOP wanted to throw old people in the street. You have just proposed the exact same program. There is hope for you.</P>


</P>


no no no....it's either all or nothing.
There's plenty of money still left for people collecting TO collect still. I will NOT be putting money in the pot for anyone else if I cant ever see it again.
It's not throwing old ppl in the street. it's giving them what they are still entitled, and giving the unlucky ones (me), a way to save OUR OWN money from being squandered by people who cant control it apparently.

So, what happened to this bill when we had a repub in office for 8 years? or with a repub majority? Seems like it would have made it in somehow, no?</P>


</P>


The Dems killed it. It started during the Clinton administration. The Dems called it "Privatization of Social Security"</P>


The problem is that SS is not a retirement plan. You don't put in and then get it back. The money that goes in now, goes to retirees NOW. It isn't held for you. The surplus (as I said) is sent to the general fund to create the illusion of a smaller deficit. But the fund is now going back into the red and the $2.6T surplus accumulated since the early 80's has been spent and replaced by IOU's from the general fund back to the SS fund. Its a foolish shell game.</P>


Save your money Pizz..thats all I'm saying.</P>

JPizzack
02-29-2012, 02:14 PM
hell.****ing.yes




If someone told me I had to take all my SS money and put it into a retirement account.</P>


at this point I'm willing to just give up on what I've payed into SS for 15 years....just so I don't have to do it for another 40...**** it they can have however many thousands (Tens of Thousands?) of dollars I've payed in...I don't care...I'm never getting it back anyhow....just let me stop paying..please.

</P>


+1</P>


i forget what my last statement said, but it was a depressing total.</P>

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 02:15 PM
So, what happened to this bill when we had a repub in office for 8 years? or with a repub majority? Seems like it would have made it in somehow, no?</p>

I think he's talking about the Privatizing Health Care bill which was under Bush...Democratic House/Senate never got passed...Obama was Democratic House/Senate for most of his first term as well....plus he would have out right vetoed that bill.

JPizzack
02-29-2012, 02:16 PM
The problem is that SS is not a retirement plan. You don't put in and then get it back. The money that goes in now, goes to retirees NOW. It isn't held for you. The surplus (as I said) is sent to the general fund to create the illusion of a smaller deficit. But the fund is now going back into the red and the $2.6T surplus accumulated since the early 80's has been spent and replaced by IOU's from the general fund back to the SS fund. Its a foolish shell game.</P>


Save your money Pizz..thats all I'm saying.</P>


</P>


no i know exactly how it works...
but like daven said...i consider that money lost..but if i could keep what is taken from here on out, and maintain retirement myself....i totally could/ would</P>

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 02:19 PM
] It all boils down to the two parties coming/working together to come up with plan "good plan"/laws that will work for the people they serve ....there has to be compromise and such for that to happen.... Its to left and right and its killing this country because the will to work together just isn't there ....the people of this country need these ****s tostop playing politics and get thisthing straightened up....

Not in this case Byron....economically we are so far gone that there can be no compromise at this point, we can compromise elsewhere and at other times...but there are times throughout the course of history where one side must stand up and fight...the must not let what they know is wrong...and bad for EVERYONE happen...

this is one of those times...it's not fear mongering it's the truth at this point.

Morehead State
02-29-2012, 02:19 PM
hell.****ing.yes




If someone told me I had to take all my SS money and put it into a retirement account.</P>


at this point I'm willing to just give up on what I've payed into SS for 15 years....just so I don't have to do it for another 40...**** it they can have however many thousands (Tens of Thousands?) of dollars I've payed in...I don't care...I'm never getting it back anyhow....just let me stop paying..please.

</P>


+1</P>


i forget what my last statement said, but it was a depressing total.</P>


</P>


The GOP would do it in a minute. </P>


You don't get it. The more the Dem's can "give you" things, the more political power they have. The more they can convince you that you "need them". Thats why they will never allow you to take control of your own retirement by not giving them their SS payments.</P>


When the control of the lives goes back more and more to the people of this country, the less power they have to sell you on the notion that you need them.</P>


The essential difference between Dems and the GOP is simple. The GOP believes in people and the power that liberty can bring in economic growth and real justice. The Dems believe that the power of government should mitigate the power of the individual. In other words, the GOP believes in people and the Dems don't.</P>


And I was a Dem for most of my life. It took a while for me to see it. I was you when I way your age.</P>

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 02:20 PM
no i know exactly how it works...
but like daven said...i consider that money lost..but if i could keep what is taken from here on out, and maintain retirement myself....i totally could/ would</p>

the problem is, because the government spent the surplus (which they weren't supposed to do) there is nothing there besides what we put in pizz, If we stop paying now...Byron won't collect...

it's a ****ty situation...it was never supposed to get to that point.

Morehead State
02-29-2012, 02:22 PM
So, what happened to this bill when we had a repub in office for 8 years? or with a repub majority? Seems like it would have made it in somehow, no?</P>




I think he's talking about the Privatizing Health Care bill which was under Bush...Democratic House/Senate never got passed...Obama was Democratic House/Senate for most of his first term as well....plus he would have out right vetoed that bill.
</P>


Thats not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a proposal to allow people voluntarily to have 10% of their SS payments go into a private fund. If my memory is right, it started under Clinton. But I could be wrong about the timing. Point is that you need 60 senators to do it.</P>

JPizzack
02-29-2012, 02:25 PM
I would agree 100% to that....IF we didnt have to pay into Social Security.
I'm already in a high tax bracket. How much of my actual income am I supposed to live on? I already lose 39% in taxes, SSand deductions (some of which I myself choose to like life insurance, my medical insurances, 401k etc.). If i keep increasing my contributions (which btw, are not guaranteed growth), I can't really afford to live anything other than a paycheck to paycheck lifestyle.
Now, most regular bank/CU IRAs are guaranteed/insured. but 1) interest rates are absolute **** right now, and B) youre either taxed up front (roth) or at withdrawal(traditional).
So how do middle and midlowclass effectively plan for retirement? And god forbid you have kids! lolRich or poor, giving the gov 40% of what you make is ludicrous!
</P>


lmao...learn to read dezz...i said i dont see 40% of my income because of taxes, SS, AND my own personal deductions like medical benefits, life insurance, and my 401k.</P>

byron
02-29-2012, 02:30 PM
The Repulicans offered a bill several years ago that would give a tax payer the option of having a part of their SS tax put in a fund that would be invested in safe funds. These accounts would be the property of the taxpayer and could be willed. They can't be confiscated by the government for any reason.</P>


The Democratic response was that the GOP wanted to throw old people in the street. You have just proposed the exact same program. There is hope for you.</P>




I remember that, I was so disappointed, I thought that bill was a step in the right direction, but Democratic fear mongering killed it :(


It all boils down to the two parties coming/working together to come up with plan "good plan"/laws that will work for the people they serve ....there has to be compromise and such for that to happen.... Its to left and right and its killing this country because the will to work together just isn't there ....the people of this country need these ****s tostop playing politics and get thisthing straightened up....</P>


The "compromise" the Dems want will still bankrupt the country. Just may take a year or two longer.</P>


The reality is that there is a fundamental difference in philosophy between the parties. It has been enhanced by the horrible condition of our fiscal house. There has to be a fight about this.</P>


Entitlements must be completely overhauled, but the Dems are only willing to nip around the edges.</P>


The basic disagreement is that the GOP doesn't think the government (in other words taxpayers)should be in the business of giving money to people who don't need it. The Dems do. The GOP wants a safety net for those who need it but not a cradle to grave entitlement society as the Dems want.</P>


As I said, this is worth fighting for.</P> you what I'm in over my head here,I don't care about philosophies "no disrespect meant here" and sure there should be a fight, no good policy would come without one ...just get it done ...get going in the right direction and tweak things as you go make it better don't let it grow into a monstrous pig....There is no excuse for letting SS getting out of hand the way it is now ...they should have been tweaking that thing since it conception...whatever I bow out..

JPizzack
02-29-2012, 02:32 PM
I remember being 17, and having no grasp of the economy or politics...just trying to finish school and go to college....and all this talk about "What will be done with the social security surplus??" and even abck then thinking to myself "oh god, if they are discussing this, we're already ****ed, arent we..."</P>


let that **** be, it's not yours!!</P>

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 02:35 PM
So, what happened to this bill when we had a repub in office for 8 years? or with a repub majority? Seems like it would have made it in somehow, no?</p>




I think he's talking about the Privatizing Health Care bill which was under Bush...Democratic House/Senate never got passed...Obama was Democratic House/Senate for most of his first term as well....plus he would have out right vetoed that bill.
</p>


Thats not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a proposal to allow people voluntarily to have 10% of their SS payments go into a private fund. If my memory is right, it started under Clinton. But I could be wrong about the timing. Point is that you need 60 senators to do it.</p>

Oh, well then I don't remember that I was definetly thinking about when Bush pushed for privatizing it during his second term, I wasn't as interested in politics during Clinton unfortunately, I think Bush admitted that his biggest mistake during his time as president was his inability to privatize SS.

byron
02-29-2012, 02:37 PM
no i know exactly how it works...
but like daven said...i consider that money lost..but if i could keep what is taken from here on out, and maintain retirement myself....i totally could/ would</P>

the problem is, because the government spent the surplus (which they weren't supposed to do) there is nothing there besides what we put in pizz, If we stop paying now...Byron won't collect...

it's a ****ty situation...it was never supposed to get to that point.
thats right.... they need to fix it, make it work...it will keep thousands working at good paying jobs and everybody will have some SS love in the end .....

MattMeyerBud
02-29-2012, 02:41 PM
never get involved with money and family

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 02:42 PM
no i know exactly how it works...
but like daven said...i consider that money lost..but if i could keep what is taken from here on out, and maintain retirement myself....i totally could/ would</p>

the problem is, because the government spent the surplus (which they weren't supposed to do) there is nothing there besides what we put in pizz, If we stop paying now...Byron won't collect...

it's a ****ty situation...it was never supposed to get to that point.
thats right.... they need to fix it, make it work...it will keep thousands working at good paying jobs and everybody will have some SS love in the end .....

It's kinda too late I think Byron...It needed to be fixed like 30 years ago.

when it started 17 workers payed for 1 retiree, it's like 4 workers per retiree now and estimated to be 2 to 1 by 2030.

it's pretty much unfixable at this point...I want to opt out, I'm sorry the government stole your money byron...but I'm not ok with letting them steal mine too :(

JPizzack
02-29-2012, 02:46 PM
ugh...it's the worst...
As good intentioned as it may have been at it's start(well, besdies the whole IOU free $ for the gov't part), social security cant really go away without totally screwing over someone currently collecting. At this point youd wish you could jsut scrap the whole thing, but there's just not enoug left to leave people.....because well...i dont know how to put this lightly....you dont know when theyre goign to die &gt;.&lt;</P>

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 02:47 PM
This seems like a cool site that details the pro's/con's to privatizing SS.

http://socialsecurity.procon.org/

Morehead State
02-29-2012, 03:23 PM
never get involved with money and family
</P>


Sorry Matt.</P>


You try to do right and **** happens. Its the old expression."no good deed goes unpunished".</P>


Anyway, whats important is that you continue to do the right thing, regardless of the consequences.</P>

JPizzack
02-29-2012, 03:38 PM
Daven, did you see Reddit thread about Election Fraud?
Statistical probability was never really my thing, but this was kind of insane.

The thread presents the evidence, and all the statistical proof, and asks the readers to disprove it, as nobody wants to believe such a thing could be pulled off. But I must say, after doing my best to decipher it, it's a reality.</P>


http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/qb9ea/reddit_can_you_debunk_this_some_people_with/</P>


it says "voter fraud" but it's not voter fraud, it's election fraud as it has nothing to do with the actual voters. Just the handling/reporting of voting results</P>

JPizzack
02-29-2012, 03:43 PM
never get involved with money and family
</P>


Sorry Matt.</P>


You try to do right and **** happens. Its the old expression."no good deed goes unpunished".</P>


Anyway, whats important is that you continue to do the right thing, regardless of the consequences.</P>


</P>


yea, I hope everything is good with him. Family problems always get more dicey than problems with co-workers and friends.
Good luck with everything man</P>

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 04:05 PM
Daven, did you see Reddit thread about Election Fraud?
Statistical probability was never really my thing, but this was kind of insane.

The thread presents the evidence, and all the statistical proof, and asks the readers to disprove it, as nobody wants to believe such a thing could be pulled off. But I must say, after doing my best to decipher it, it's a reality.</p>


http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/qb9ea/reddit_can_you_debunk_this_some_people_with/</p>


it says "voter fraud" but it's not voter fraud, it's election fraud as it has nothing to do with the actual voters. Just the handling/reporting of voting results</p>

he seems to be putting A LOT of faith into this "Hyper-geometry" ....he knows a lot about it, more then me...but who says "Hyper-geometry" can translate into humans going in to a voting booth...

here's a point, most Ron Paul supporters are more enthusiastic then Romney supporters...they get to the poles first...so yeah Paul always starts high ends lower...the opposite can be said of Romney...since he's the "establishment" candidate he gets the "base" the people who just go out to vote when they get out of work...they aren't amped up and waiting on line...so he starts slow and finishes strong.

IF you assume this "hyper-geometry" is applicable then yes, it looks like Paul's votes are getting siphoned over to Romney in many cases, but I don't think you can base an entire conspiracy theory behind one mathematical formula that you can't even prove is applicable.


Boosh! someone already answered him...it's way more complex and informative then what I said...but it's pretty much the same thing..no one said hyper-geometry is applicable to votes.

<div class="usertext-body"><div class="md">

<font color="#0000FF">I am hijacking this comment so that people will see the rough-and-ready explanation I just spent an hour working on.</font></p>



<font color="#0000FF">Okay, here is my attempt at an explanation for why your premise (and
therefore conclusion) is basically flawed. If you care, I have a BS in
Finance, and I am currently in my second semester of an MS Finance
program. At this level, finance is at least 75% statistics and
calculus.</font></p>



<font color="#0000FF">Hypergeometric distribution information (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergeometric_distribution)</font></p>



<font color="#0000FF">Problem 1 - Nonrandom Variables First of all, note
that for the hypergeometric distribution to be applicable, the value of
the variables must be random. In the red/blue ball example, the
variables are truly random: we are equally likely to pull a red as a
blue, and the chance of pulling a red ball does not influence what the
next ball will be. This is a stark contrast to this voting data. The
most obvious reason why the votes are not random is that we know in advance
that certain candidates are going to receive the majority of votes. If
Romney won 35%, Santorum won 35%, and Gingrich and Paul each got 15%,
then we know the probability of a vote going to a certain candidate, and
it is not random. </font></p>



<font color="#0000FF">Further, I would argue that when a particular vote goes to a
candidate, that candidate is more likely to receive the next vote.
Consider that Paul campaigns almost exclusively in certain districts
where he has the best chances of winning (districts that often include
college campuses). In these areas, we expect him to perform much better
than average, and in areas where he has not campaigned we would expect
him to do more poorly. Once again, the variables are not random, so a hypergeometric function cannot be used. </font></p>



<font color="#0000FF">Problem 2 - There is a simple, logical explanation for the data This is actually related to the first problem, because the heart of the issue still that the variables are not random and so a hypergeometric function cannot be used
The explanation is this - you chose to organize your data roughly from
least-to-most urban, and Romney tends to perform better in more urban
areas. This explains why he always "benefits" in the largest districts.</font></p>



<font color="#0000FF">Please also note that these issues are why Ron Paul seems to be the
"victim" of "fraud". Your model is assuming that the votes are random,
and that each candidate should receive an even % of the vote. However,
we know in advance (from polling) that Romney will win about 35% of the
vote and Paul will win about 15% (or whatever, please stay with me
here). So it should not surprise us that the model gives Romney a very
remote chance of getting to 35% because the model thinks that, if the
election were conducted 100 times, he would receive an average of 25%.
This flawed model also overestimates Paul's chances of performing well,
because it thinks he deserves an equal share of a random vote, instead
of a smaller share of a nonrandom vote.</font></p>



<font color="#0000FF">TL;DR The variables (votes) are not random,
and so a Hypergeometric function cannot be used to analyze the data.
The premise is flawed, so the conclusion is useless.</font></p>



<font color="#0000FF">Also, think for a moment what you are suggesting - huge election
fraud that has been going on for years. This data has been analyzed and
analyzed again from Berkeley to MIT to Cambridge - if there was fraud
that statistical analysis could reveal, then some academic would have
published a paper years ago.</font></p>



<font color="#0000FF">edit: Several people have pointed out that the Hypergeometric model
could be tailored to fit data where each data point has a known percent
of the total data. (That is, 70 blue balls and 30 red balls, instead of
50/50.) Simply put, you guys are right, but I believe that this model
was clearly set up for even probabilities. However, even if that
problem were resolved, the votes are still not independent of each
other, so the model cannot be used. I look forward to
Drunken_Economist's write up.</font></p>


</p>

<font color="#0000FF"><font color="#000000">Pretty much it's like using algebra to solve a problem with someones grammar you might be able to find some sort of coincidence if you look hard enough...but algebra and grammar have nothing to do with each other so it doesn't really prove anything. </font>
</font></p>
</div>
</div>

JPizzack
02-29-2012, 04:11 PM
Daven, did you see Reddit thread about Election Fraud?
Statistical probability was never really my thing, but this was kind of insane.

The thread presents the evidence, and all the statistical proof, and asks the readers to disprove it, as nobody wants to believe such a thing could be pulled off. But I must say, after doing my best to decipher it, it's a reality.</P>


http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/qb9ea/reddit_can_you_debunk_this_some_people_with/</P>


it says "voter fraud" but it's not voter fraud, it's election fraud as it has nothing to do with the actual voters. Just the handling/reporting of voting results</P>




he seems to be putting A LOT of faith into this "Hypergeometry" ....he knows a lot about it, more then me...but who says "Hypergeometry" can translate into humans going in to a voting booth...

here's a point, most Ron Paul supporters are more enthusiastic then Romney supporters...they get to the poles first...so yeah Paul always starts high ends lower...the opposite can be said of Romney...since he's the "establishment" candidate he gets the "base" the people who just go out to vote when they get out of work...they aren't amped up and waiting on line...so he starts slow and finishes strong.

IF you assume this "hypergeometry" is applicable then yes, it looks like Paul's votes are getting siphoned over to Romney in many cases, but I don't think you can base an entire conspiracy theory behind one mathematical formula that you can't even prove is applicable.
</P>


well that all may be the case, but I think the most interesting point of it all was the whole end result numbers. Where, for some reason, as they get toward the end counting, Romney's reported numbers increase at a rate that defies percentages and probability.
oh well...just thought it was interesting.</P>

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 04:18 PM
well that all may be the case, but I think the most interesting point of it all was the whole end result numbers. Where, for some reason, as they get toward the end counting, Romney's reported numbers increase at a rate that defies percentages and probability.
oh well...just thought it was interesting.</p>

It only defies probability if you base the probability on an incorrect assumption.

The guy trying to create the conspiracy there is acting like there should be an equal chance county to county...that's not true...for example Ron Paul will jump more then 1% easily when the votes from a college town come in because that's his wheel house.

Morehead State
02-29-2012, 04:39 PM
Better get behind Mitt, Daven. He is the only chance we have to beat Obama. Santorum would not only get creamed, but he would lose the House and keep us from controlling the Senate.</P>


Gingrich would do even worse. Right now Romney has a 50/50 chance or better to win the White House. Don't kid yourself. The longer it takes for people to get behind him, the worse our chances.</P>

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 04:47 PM
Better get behind Mitt, Daven. He is the only chance we have to beat Obama. Santorum would not only get creamed, but he would lose the House and keep us from controlling the Senate.</p>


Gingrich would do even worse. Right now Romney has a 50/50 chance or better to win the White House. Don't kid yourself. The longer it takes for people to get behind him, the worse our chances.</p>

I know, but I don't like it, he's just gonna dump the money into another hole, he's not really going to reduce the size of government, he's not really about personal responsibility, personally I don't think he would make a stand on any issue, he seems so wishy washy...I do not like that in a president....I'd almost rather vote for someone I disagree with but stands for something rather then someone like Romney who in my view is just picking his sides depending on which one will get him more votes at the time.

I'll vote Romney cause I have to...but I'm not gonna like it.

Morehead State
02-29-2012, 04:59 PM
Better get behind Mitt, Daven. He is the only chance we have to beat Obama. Santorum would not only get creamed, but he would lose the House and keep us from controlling the Senate.</P>


Gingrich would do even worse. Right now Romney has a 50/50 chance or better to win the White House. Don't kid yourself. The longer it takes for people to get behind him, the worse our chances.</P>




I know, but I don't like it, he's just gonna dump the money into another hole, he's not really going to reduce the size of government, he's not really about personal responsibility, personally I don't think he would make a stand on any issue, he seems so wishy washy...I do not like that in a president....I'd almost rather vote for someone I disagree with but stands for something rather then someone like Romney who in my view is just picking his sides depending on which one will get him more votes at the time.

I'll vote Romney cause I have to...but I'm not gonna like it.
</P>


Romney has basic and first hand knowledge about how markets and the economy in general work. He's not trapped by the "government can create jobs" nonsense. He's a fiscal conservative who understands the danger of our fiscal excesses. If he wins he would also come with a GOP Senate as well. He will open up Keystone, he will expand oil exploration here and he will work to kill Obamacare. He's not exciting at all and a bit stiff. But the country will benefit from a steady albeit unexciting approach. I've had too much excitement already.</P>


But alas, he's not "cool". He doesn't have Obama's smile or his walk that chicks seem to dig. He can't sing Al Green songs in tune. He's a dork who sings America The Beautiful. But his Presidency will be the best thing for our country.</P>

DavenIII
02-29-2012, 05:05 PM
Better get behind Mitt, Daven. He is the only chance we have to beat Obama. Santorum would not only get creamed, but he would lose the House and keep us from controlling the Senate.</p>


Gingrich would do even worse. Right now Romney has a 50/50 chance or better to win the White House. Don't kid yourself. The longer it takes for people to get behind him, the worse our chances.</p>




I know, but I don't like it, he's just gonna dump the money into another hole, he's not really going to reduce the size of government, he's not really about personal responsibility, personally I don't think he would make a stand on any issue, he seems so wishy washy...I do not like that in a president....I'd almost rather vote for someone I disagree with but stands for something rather then someone like Romney who in my view is just picking his sides depending on which one will get him more votes at the time.

I'll vote Romney cause I have to...but I'm not gonna like it.
</p>


Romney has basic and first hand knowledge about how markets and the economy in general work. He's not trapped by the "government can create jobs" nonsense. He's a fiscal conservative who understands the danger of our fiscal excesses. If he wins he would also come with a GOP Senate as well. He will open up Keystone, he will expand oil exploration here and he will work to kill Obamacare. He's not exciting at all and a bit stiff. But the country will benefit from a steady albeit unexciting approach. I've had too much excitement already.</p>


But alas, he's not "cool". He doesn't have Obama's smile or his walk that chicks seem to dig. He can't sing Al Green songs in tune. He's a dork who sings America The Beautiful. But his Presidency will be the best thing for our country.</p>

I don't need exciting I need trustworthy and I don't trust that he will do any of the things you just mentioned.

I know he has a corporate background...which is good! but I think he's already indebted to lobbyists and supporters and I don't think he has the backbone to say NO to them, I think he will break down 1-1.5 years into office and start dumping money into one pit or another...he will not cut spending he will just spend it somewhere else...

I'll vote for him, but I do not trust him.

time for me to head home...good discussion today have a good night everyone :)

ps: Plus he's a Mormon WTF? (just playing Utah just playing)

JPizzack
02-29-2012, 06:20 PM
oh Jeebus...
listening to people say "i'll vote for him....but i dont like him..."
/facepalm

elections are scary things

byron
02-29-2012, 07:16 PM
no i know exactly how it works...
but like daven said...i consider that money lost..but if i could keep what is taken from here on out, and maintain retirement myself....i totally could/ would</P>




the problem is, because the government spent the surplus (which they weren't supposed to do) there is nothing there besides what we put in pizz, If we stop paying now...Byron won't collect...

it's a ****ty situation...it was never supposed to get to that point.
thats right.... they need to fix it, make it work...it will keep thousands working at good paying jobs and everybody will have some SS love in the end .....

It's kinda too late I think Byron...It needed to be fixed like 30 years ago.

when it started 17 workers payed for 1 retiree, it's like 4 workers per retiree now and estimated to be 2 to 1 by 2030.

it's pretty much unfixable at this point...I want to opt out, I'm sorry the government stole your money byron...but I'm not ok with letting them steal mine too :(
</P>


Prehaps your right and hey I don't blame any of you for not wanting to pay for a dead horse...I don't know perhaps they will change it one day..to where you will be able to opt out but don't hold your breath it could be years man...I went alongnot really thinking much about retirementand I'm notreally sure why ...Guess I just figured SS would be there and that it would be enough...And I figured I could just keep working if need be ....So much for that....This was a good discussion and it seems you young people got some kind of grip on it which is the first steptoward prepairing.....believe it or not that makes me happyfor you all....</P>

Morehead State
02-29-2012, 07:20 PM
oh Jeebus... listening to people say "i'll vote for him....but i dont like him..." /facepalm elections are scary things</P>


You don't vote for someone because you like them. You vote forsomebody because you think its the right thing for the country.</P>

byron
02-29-2012, 07:39 PM
oh Jeebus... listening to people say "i'll vote for him....but i dont like him..." /facepalm elections are scary thingsMH...... has it right above...</P>

egyptian420
02-29-2012, 09:53 PM
oh Jeebus... listening to people say "i'll vote for him....but i dont like him..." /facepalm elections are scary things</p>


You don't vote for someone because you like them. You vote forsomebody because you think its the right thing for the country.</p>
I go into an election thinking "who's robbing me less?"......all crooks

lttaylor56
03-01-2012, 09:41 AM
Friggin snowing like crazy here.</P>


I don't know how, but it has to be Obama's fault.</P>The statement that I like the best since I left on Tuesday after the hissy fight bet. you and pizz. Looks like I did not miss much.

Is Matt ok?

Kase-1
03-01-2012, 09:55 AM
Friggin snowing like crazy here.</p>


I don't know how, but it has to be Obama's fault.</p>

Of course the day after I leave New England it starts pouring snow up there, at least I got 2 AMAZING days of skiing up in Vermont at Mad River and Sugarbush

....Damn, I wanna go back right now!!!!

lttaylor56
03-01-2012, 10:07 AM
After watching a handful of documentaries about how nationalized healthcare works, and how people love it, and how doctors love it because they are compensated sometimes even better than our private doctors.....I'm kinda for it. Not that I can speak for the doctors in england and canada, but they in interviews say their jobs are satisfying because they know they have the ability to help everyone. Not just people with insurnace. Well, they said that when asked, so it was prompted obviously, but, it makes sense. thats how you know youre making a difference.</P>


Doctors love it?* Where in God's name did you read that.* Do you know how many doctors drop out of Medicare because they can't get paid AND when they do its crap amounts?</P>


Look at the research, doctors hate the Medicare system and Obamacare is Medicare on steroids.</P>


*</P>Did Someone mention steroids? lol


http://gifsoup.com/view2/3377657/slap-o.gif

lttaylor56
03-01-2012, 10:08 AM
Friggin snowing like crazy here.</p>


I don't know how, but it has to be Obama's fault.</p>

Of course the day after I leave New England it starts pouring snow up there, at least I got 2 AMAZING days of skiing up in Vermont at Mad River and Sugarbush

....Damn, I wanna go back right now!!!!
Cool, glad you had great time. Temps were perfect.

dezzzR
03-01-2012, 10:17 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc_dD_zhPE4&amp;feature=share
i weeeerk ouuuut

lttaylor56
03-01-2012, 10:23 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc_dD_zhPE4&feature=share
*i weeeerk ouuuut
wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle. haha

lttaylor56
03-01-2012, 10:42 AM
I'm cool, but I don't know about the rest of you white devils!

This was just posted a few hours ago. Obey the law.

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dezzzR
03-01-2012, 10:47 AM
matt was replaced by LT!

lttaylor56
03-01-2012, 10:57 AM
matt was replaced by LT!
lol

Morehead State
03-01-2012, 11:14 AM
Friggin snowing like crazy here.</P>


I don't know how, but it has to be Obama's fault.</P>




Of course the day after I leave New England it starts pouring snow up there, at least I got 2 AMAZING days of skiing up in Vermont at Mad River and Sugarbush

....Damn, I wanna go back right now!!!!
</P>


Used to ski Sugarbush a lot in my younger days. Not a bump skier so I stayed away from Castle Rock (on what used to be called Sugerbush North) Went down that bumpy ice wall once (on my *** mostly).</P>


Liked Jester though.</P>

JPizzack
03-01-2012, 11:18 AM
</P>


KASE!!! HOLY ****!!
You have to watch the movie "Goon" if you havent already! ****in epic!!

It's the perfect combination of comedy, and epic sports movie. And it's a hockey movie. It was SO effin good. top 3 movies i've seen in the past year.
must watch for any fan of sports, and well...just movies in general lol</P>

lttaylor56
03-01-2012, 11:25 AM
</P>


KASE!!! HOLY ****!!
You have to watch the movie "Goon" if you havent already! ****in epic!!

It's the perfect combination of comedy, and epic sports movie. And it's a hockey movie. It was SO effin good. top 3 movies i've seen in the past year.
must watch for any fan of sports, and well...just movies in general lol</P>On demand?

JPizzack
03-01-2012, 11:28 AM
</P>


KASE!!! HOLY ****!!
You have to watch the movie "Goon" if you havent already! ****in epic!!

It's the perfect combination of comedy, and epic sports movie. And it's a hockey movie. It was SO effin good. top 3 movies i've seen in the past year.
must watch for any fan of sports, and well...just movies in general lol</P>


On demand?</P>


Well I think so. The downloaded copy I got said [VODRip] which im pretty sure is video on demand. I never heard of the movie, but now that I've seen it, im not sure why it wasnt in theaters or anything(or maybe it was and i didnt know)</P>

Kase-1
03-01-2012, 11:33 AM
Friggin snowing like crazy here.</p>


I don't know how, but it has to be Obama's fault.</p>




Of course the day after I leave New England it starts pouring snow up there, at least I got 2 AMAZING days of skiing up in Vermont at Mad River and Sugarbush

....Damn, I wanna go back right now!!!!
</p>


Used to ski Sugarbush a lot in my younger days. Not a bump skier so I stayed away from Castle Rock (on what used to be called Sugerbush North) Went down that bumpy ice wall once (on my *** mostly).</p>


Liked Jester though.</p>NICE!!!!

Sugarbush is my favorite mountain, Im a HUGE glade skiier so Kase-1 goes where the trees are a plenty, LOL.... Jay is excellent too, but quite far and doesnt have a terrain park (I love my jumps)

I know you may not think it, but Kase-1 is quite the nasty skier. I spent all day Monday ripping up the 'mogul' trails which were pretty much powder fields with that beautiful 2ft of snow we got blessed with

Kase-1
03-01-2012, 11:35 AM
</p>


KASE!!! HOLY ****!!
You have to watch the movie "Goon" if you havent already! ****in epic!!

It's the perfect combination of comedy, and epic sports movie. And it's a hockey movie. It was SO effin good. top 3 movies i've seen in the past year.
must watch for any fan of sports, and well...just movies in general lol</p>Yo I wanna see that movie SOOOOO bad. I think it was getting released On Demand 1st then will be released in theatre's. When I finish up with season 1 of 'The Wire' I will def be watching it

JPizzack
03-01-2012, 11:38 AM
</P>


KASE!!! HOLY ****!!
You have to watch the movie "Goon" if you havent already! ****in epic!!

It's the perfect combination of comedy, and epic sports movie. And it's a hockey movie. It was SO effin good. top 3 movies i've seen in the past year.
must watch for any fan of sports, and well...just movies in general lol</P>


Yo I wanna see that movie SOOOOO bad. I think it was getting released On Demand 1st then will be released in theatre's. When I finish up with season 1 of 'The Wire' I will def be watching it
</P>


Is that what they are doing?? that's kinda weird, no??

The Wire!! nice!! I would rewatch the 1st season again if the episodes werent as long. It's just time consuming to rewatch something like that lol. But i'm starting to forget stuff. DAMN YOU KASE! now i HAVE to watch it!!</P>

lttaylor56
03-01-2012, 11:52 AM
</P>


KASE!!! HOLY ****!!
You have to watch the movie "Goon" if you havent already! ****in epic!!

It's the perfect combination of comedy, and epic sports movie. And it's a hockey movie. It was SO effin good. top 3 movies i've seen in the past year.
must watch for any fan of sports, and well...just movies in general lol</P>


Yo I wanna see that movie SOOOOO bad.* I think it was getting released On Demand 1st then will be released in theatre's.* When I finish up with season 1 of 'The Wire' I will def be watching it
</P>


Is that what they are doing?? that's kinda weird, no??

The Wire!! nice!! I would rewatch the 1st season again if the episodes werent as long. It's just time consuming to rewatch something like that lol. But i'm starting to forget stuff. DAMN YOU KASE! now i HAVE to watch it!!</P>I started catching up on epi #1 and #2 of Spartacus. It's taking a while to get going.

Kase-1
03-01-2012, 11:53 AM
</p>


KASE!!! HOLY ****!!
You have to watch the movie "Goon" if you havent already! ****in epic!!

It's the perfect combination of comedy, and epic sports movie. And it's a hockey movie. It was SO effin good. top 3 movies i've seen in the past year.
must watch for any fan of sports, and well...just movies in general lol</p>


Yo I wanna see that movie SOOOOO bad. I think it was getting released On Demand 1st then will be released in theatre's. When I finish up with season 1 of 'The Wire' I will def be watching it
</p>


Is that what they are doing?? that's kinda weird, no??

The Wire!! nice!! I would rewatch the 1st season again if the episodes werent as long. It's just time consuming to rewatch something like that lol. But i'm starting to forget stuff. DAMN YOU KASE! now i HAVE to watch it!!</p>Yea I started watching it halfway through season 2 back when it was on HBO. All of my buddies told me that Season 1 was the best one, so I had to get down with it.

I LOVE seeing the 1st glimpses of Prop Joe, that guy is AWESOME!!!!

Kase-1
03-01-2012, 11:55 AM
</p>


KASE!!! HOLY ****!!
You have to watch the movie "Goon" if you havent already! ****in epic!!

It's the perfect combination of comedy, and epic sports movie. And it's a hockey movie. It was SO effin good. top 3 movies i've seen in the past year.
must watch for any fan of sports, and well...just movies in general lol</p>


Yo I wanna see that movie SOOOOO bad. I think it was getting released On Demand 1st then will be released in theatre's. When I finish up with season 1 of 'The Wire' I will def be watching it
</p>


Is that what they are doing?? that's kinda weird, no??

The Wire!! nice!! I would rewatch the 1st season again if the episodes werent as long. It's just time consuming to rewatch something like that lol. But i'm starting to forget stuff. DAMN YOU KASE! now i HAVE to watch it!!</p>I started catching up on epi #1 and #2 of Spartacus. It's taking a while to get going.Ive only seen the last 2 episodes of Sparticus and I gotta say, its quite badass. My friends that have seen every episoide said the 1st 3 or so episodes are boring and all character set up kinda stuff

ShockeyShow
03-01-2012, 12:04 PM
Hola amigos! Long time, i've been busy! How's everyone been?

lttaylor56
03-01-2012, 12:04 PM
</p>


KASE!!! HOLY ****!!
You have to watch the movie "Goon" if you havent already! ****in epic!!

It's the perfect combination of comedy, and epic sports movie. And it's a hockey movie. It was SO effin good. top 3 movies i've seen in the past year.
must watch for any fan of sports, and well...just movies in general lol</p>


Yo I wanna see that movie SOOOOO bad.* I think it was getting released On Demand 1st then will be released in theatre's.* When I finish up with season 1 of 'The Wire' I will def be watching it
</p>


Is that what they are doing?? that's kinda weird, no??

The Wire!! nice!! I would rewatch the 1st season again if the episodes werent as long. It's just time consuming to rewatch something like that lol. But i'm starting to forget stuff. DAMN YOU KASE! now i HAVE to watch it!!</p>I started catching up on epi #1 and #2 of Spartacus. It's taking a while to get going.Ive only seen the last 2 episodes of Sparticus and I gotta say, its quite badass.* My friends that have seen every episoide said the 1st 3 or so episodes are boring and all character set up kinda stuff
It is a good series. i'll try to zoom thru epi 3 to get to the good stuff.

dezzzR
03-01-2012, 12:13 PM
</p>


KASE!!! HOLY ****!!
You have to watch the movie "Goon" if you havent already! ****in epic!!

It's the perfect combination of comedy, and epic sports movie. And it's a hockey movie. It was SO effin good. top 3 movies i've seen in the past year.
must watch for any fan of sports, and well...just movies in general lol</p>


Yo I wanna see that movie SOOOOO bad. I think it was getting released On Demand 1st then will be released in theatre's. When I finish up with season 1 of 'The Wire' I will def be watching it
</p>


Is that what they are doing?? that's kinda weird, no??

The Wire!! nice!! I would rewatch the 1st season again if the episodes werent as long. It's just time consuming to rewatch something like that lol. But i'm starting to forget stuff. DAMN YOU KASE! now i HAVE to watch it!!</p>I started catching up on epi #1 and #2 of Spartacus. It's taking a while to get going.Ive only seen the last 2 episodes of Sparticus and I gotta say, its quite badass. My friends that have seen every episoide said the 1st 3 or so episodes are boring and all character set up kinda stuff
geeet on that ****. one of the best written shows iv seen. it sucks because the original guy that played spartacus died of cancer(new guys filling in ok) and the hottest slaves left the show(royally pissed and i hate her replacement). but yes last episode was so awesome. the prequel is tying in with everything. so many twists and turns. i always get a kick at the odd **** people did and reasons people did things back then, very interesting. The first two episodes of the first season are little slow but it picks up fast, very fast.

Kase-1
03-01-2012, 12:21 PM
</p>


KASE!!! HOLY ****!!
You have to watch the movie "Goon" if you havent already! ****in epic!!

It's the perfect combination of comedy, and epic sports movie. And it's a hockey movie. It was SO effin good. top 3 movies i've seen in the past year.
must watch for any fan of sports, and well...just movies in general lol</p>


Yo I wanna see that movie SOOOOO bad. I think it was getting released On Demand 1st then will be released in theatre's. When I finish up with season 1 of 'The Wire' I will def be watching it
</p>


Is that what they are doing?? that's kinda weird, no??

The Wire!! nice!! I would rewatch the 1st season again if the episodes werent as long. It's just time consuming to rewatch something like that lol. But i'm starting to forget stuff. DAMN YOU KASE! now i HAVE to watch it!!</p>I started catching up on epi #1 and #2 of Spartacus. It's taking a while to get going.Ive only seen the last 2 episodes of Sparticus and I gotta say, its quite badass. My friends that have seen every episoide said the 1st 3 or so episodes are boring and all character set up kinda stuff
geeet on that ****. one of the best written shows iv seen. it sucks because the original guy that played spartacus died of cancer(new guys filling in ok) and the hottest slaves left the show(royally pissed and i hate her replacement). but yes last episode was so awesome. the prequel is tying in with the first season. so many twists and turns. i always get a kick at the odd **** people did and reasons people did things back then, very interesting. The first two episodes of the first season are little slow but it picks up fast, very fast.
Yea I heard the 1st guy that played Spartacus was much better but he died in real life so they recast and instead of the 2nd season they had a prequel season, correct??

That show is def filled with tons of gore, sex, and nudity

JPizzack
03-01-2012, 12:23 PM
Hola amigos! Long time, i've been busy! How's everyone been?

</P>


WHOODA **** IS DISS????</P>

Kase-1
03-01-2012, 12:24 PM
Im loving the Lester Freeman and Presbo team on 'The Wire'!!!!!

I always thought Presbo was a total joke, but he's got some skill off of the street.

dezzzR
03-01-2012, 12:25 PM
so any ideas on names for the new baby pizz???

dezzzR
03-01-2012, 12:27 PM
kase. they both deeeeeestroy it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgF5HvSR6Q8

ShockeyShow
03-01-2012, 12:28 PM
Hola amigos! Long time, i've been busy! How's everyone been?

</p>


WHOODA **** IS DISS????</p>

Yo' worse nightmare!

JPizzack
03-01-2012, 12:34 PM
Im loving the Lester Freeman and Presbo team on 'The Wire'!!!!!

I always thought Presbo was a total joke, but he's got some skill off of the street.
</P>


Lester is awesome. HE'S SO WISE!!
lol</P>

JPizzack
03-01-2012, 12:35 PM
so any ideas on names for the new baby pizz???
</P>


Flakey The Hooker Killer.</P>


you like?</P>

JPizzack
03-01-2012, 12:38 PM
Hola amigos! Long time, i've been busy! How's everyone been?

</P>


WHOODA **** IS DISS????</P>




Yo' worse nightmare!
</P>


Youre a civilazation composed entirely of clowns??!?!?!?!?! WHAT THE ****</P>

Kase-1
03-01-2012, 12:43 PM
Im loving the Lester Freeman and Presbo team on 'The Wire'!!!!!

I always thought Presbo was a total joke, but he's got some skill off of the street.
</p>


Lester is awesome. HE'S SO WISE!!
lol</p>Lester really is the O.G. of the show without even trying, I knew that from season 2 to the finale. Presbo on the other hand....

dezzzR
03-01-2012, 12:47 PM
my favorite character was snot boogie.

Kase-1
03-01-2012, 12:50 PM
my favorite character was snot boogie.
LMAO!!!!

bigblue4417
03-01-2012, 12:50 PM
New York Yankees (http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/_/name/nyy/new-york-yankees)
managing general partner Hal Steinbrenner says it's his goal to lower
the team's payroll to $189 million over the next few years.

Under baseball's new labor contract, the luxury tax threshold will be at $189 million after the 2013 season.</p>

Said
Steinbrenner on Thursday: "Is it a requirement with baseball that we
hit 189? No, it's not a requirement, but that is going to be the luxury
tax threshold and that's where I want to be. I don't think it's an
unrealistic goal."</p>

Steinbrenner said this season's payroll is around $210 million.</p>

The Yankees were hit with a $13.9 million luxury tax for last season. New York's final 2011 payroll was $212.7 million.</p>

bigblue4417
03-01-2012, 12:52 PM
Pirates pitcher A.J. Burnett (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/4153/aj-burnett) will undergo surgery on Friday to repair a fractured right orbital bone.

The
right-hander injured himself Wednesday at the team's spring training
facilities in Bradenton, Fla., after a bunt attempt caromed off his
face. He flew to Pittsburgh late Wednesday to be further evaluated.</p>


</p>


</p>

LMAO, nice job AJ. lol
</p>

I can't believe he actually practices bunting.
</p>

JPizzack
03-01-2012, 12:53 PM
my favorite character was snot boogie.
</P>


Bodie was definitely my favorite on the dealer side of things.

McNulty was an obvious favorite of mine also......one fo the best tv trainwrecks of all time! (and yes, i do have a list in mind lol)</P>

bigblue4417
03-01-2012, 12:54 PM
I really don't understand why the Celts would want to trade Rondo. He is the only good young player they have. I guess depending on what they get back it could make sense but still...

dezzzR
03-01-2012, 12:55 PM
Pirates pitcher A.J. Burnett (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/4153/aj-burnett) will undergo surgery on Friday to repair a fractured right orbital bone.

The
right-hander injured himself Wednesday at the team's spring training
facilities in Bradenton, Fla., after a bunt attempt caromed off his
face. He flew to Pittsburgh late Wednesday to be further evaluated.</p>


</p>


</p>

LMAO, nice job AJ. lol
</p>

I can't believe he actually practices bunting.
</p>lol gooood riddance. thanks for a solid game 2 in the 09 ws

dezzzR
03-01-2012, 12:57 PM
New York Yankees (http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/_/name/nyy/new-york-yankees)
managing general partner Hal Steinbrenner says it's his goal to lower
the team's payroll to $189 million over the next few years.

Under baseball's new labor contract, the luxury tax threshold will be at $189 million after the 2013 season.</p>

Said
Steinbrenner on Thursday: "Is it a requirement with baseball that we
hit 189? No, it's not a requirement, but that is going to be the luxury
tax threshold and that's where I want to be. I don't think it's an
unrealistic goal."</p>

Steinbrenner said this season's payroll is around $210 million.</p>

The Yankees were hit with a $13.9 million luxury tax for last season. New York's final 2011 payroll was $212.7 million.</p>You seem awfully interested in the Yankees. [:)]

Kase-1
03-01-2012, 01:00 PM
my favorite character was snot boogie.
</p>


Bodie was definitely my favorite on the dealer side of things.

McNulty was an obvious favorite of mine also......one fo the best tv trainwrecks of all time! (and yes, i do have a list in mind lol)</p>There's too many good ones to name

McNutty
Bunk
Freeman
Herc &amp; Carver combo
Jay (McNulty's fat boss)

Stringer Bell
Omar
Wee Bey
Prop Joe
Marlo
Chris
Snoop
Bubbles
Bodie

dezzzR
03-01-2012, 01:04 PM
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/columnists/view/20120301verbal_barbs_show_bobby_valentines_maneuve rability/srvc=home&amp;position=recent


If I was Jeter, every time Bob calls me out, Id just flash my 2000 ring. Simple as that.

Not even a spring training game played yet and Bobby already looks like an ***

JPizzack
03-01-2012, 01:12 PM
my favorite character was snot boogie.
</P>


Bodie was definitely my favorite on the dealer side of things.

McNulty was an obvious favorite of mine also......one fo the best tv trainwrecks of all time! (and yes, i do have a list in mind lol)</P>


There's too many good ones to name

McNutty
Bunk
Freeman
Herc &amp; Carver combo
Jay (McNulty's fat boss)

Stringer Bell
Omar
Wee Bey
Prop Joe
Marlo
Chris
Snoop
Bubbles
Bodie

</P>


Stringer and Omar are definitely in my fave's....i quote omar all the time lol
There's a UK show called Luther starring Idris Elba (stringer bell) where he's on the opposite side of things as a ****ed up detective. I only watched the first season so far, but it was pretty good.
It's so weird that he's as British as they come.</P>

lttaylor56
03-01-2012, 01:16 PM
so any ideas on names for the new baby pizz???
</P>


Flakey The Hooker Killer.</P>


you like?</P>Who's having a baby?

lttaylor56
03-01-2012, 01:17 PM
so any ideas on names for the new baby pizz???
</P>


Flakey The Hooker Killer.</P>


you like?</P>Who's having a baby?It doesn't matter, my name selection is Elijah

dezzzR
03-01-2012, 01:17 PM
so any ideas on names for the new baby pizz???
</p>


Flakey The Hooker Killer.</p>


you like?</p>Who's having a baby?pizzle and snookie.

JPizzack
03-01-2012, 01:24 PM
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/columnists/view/20120301verbal_barbs_show_bobby_valentines_maneuve rability/srvc=home&amp;position=recent


If I was Jeter, every time Bob calls me out, Id just flash my 2000 ring. Simple as that.

Not even a spring training game played yet and Bobby already looks like an ***
</P>


he's the rex ryan of baseball I guess......i suppose that would make the redsux the jets? lol(even though that's reserved for the mets typically)</P>

lttaylor56
03-01-2012, 01:29 PM
so any ideas on names for the new baby pizz???
</p>


Flakey The Hooker Killer.</p>


you like?</p>Who's having a baby?pizzle and snookie.
She is from his hometown? Must of been one of those visits a few month's ago. She could not resist all this is Pizzzzzzzzz!

JPizzack
03-01-2012, 01:32 PM
so any ideas on names for the new baby pizz???
</P>


Flakey The Hooker Killer.</P>


you like?</P>


Who's having a baby?pizzle and snookie.
</P>


lol, let me just set the record straight one last time. I've lived in Poughkeepsie my entire adultlife, and have gone out to every single bar and club in the area for over 10 years. I've never seen Snookie anywhere other than on television. She's from Marlboro...which is a half hour across the river from poughkeepsie. I have no reason to go that way unless im going to the newburgh auto auction for the car dealership lol. And there ya have it...i dont know her. never even seen her.</P>

dezzzR
03-01-2012, 01:32 PM
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/columnists/view/20120301verbal_barbs_show_bobby_valentines_maneuve rability/srvc=home&amp;position=recent


If I was Jeter, every time Bob calls me out, Id just flash my 2000 ring. Simple as that.

Not even a spring training game played yet and Bobby already looks like an ***
</p>


<u>he's the rex ryan of baseball I gues</u>s......i suppose that would make the redsux the jets? lol(even though that's reserved for the mets typically)</p>yea i guess you can say that. Hes definitely still butt hurt over 2000. [:D]

JPizzack
03-01-2012, 01:35 PM
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/columnists/view/20120301verbal_barbs_show_bobby_valentines_maneuve rability/srvc=home&amp;position=recent


If I was Jeter, every time Bob calls me out, Id just flash my 2000 ring. Simple as that.

Not even a spring training game played yet and Bobby already looks like an ***
</P>


<U>he's the rex ryan of baseball I gues</U>s......i suppose that would make the redsux the jets? lol(even though that's reserved for the mets typically)</P>


yea i guess you can say that. Hes definitely still butt hurt over 2000. [:D]
</P>


i havent really read hte interviews. are his comments about the yankees prompted? are ppl asking him?
I dont recall Francona ever rrunning his mouth...is this just a motivational tactic for him? lol</P>

Kase-1
03-01-2012, 01:41 PM
i dont know her. never even seen her.So you double bagged it????

...1 bag for her head and 1 bag for yours

dezzzR
03-01-2012, 01:44 PM
i dont know her. never even seen her.So you double bagged it????

...1 bag for her head and 1 bag for yours

lmao

JPizzack
03-01-2012, 01:54 PM
i dont know her. never even seen her.So you double bagged it????

...1 bag for her head and 1 bag for yours

lmao</P>


maybe i was raped. maybe somebody slipped me some floories =\</P>

dezzzR
03-01-2012, 01:54 PM
if youre on facebook and click on your name on the top right corner, next to find friends and home, are the people on the left hand side people that look at your page?

lttaylor56
03-01-2012, 02:00 PM
i dont know her. never even seen her.So you double bagged it????

...1 bag for her head and 1 bag for yours

lmao</P>


maybe i was raped. maybe somebody slipped me some floories =\</P>Oh god, now we have to endure you bringing that loudmouth snookie to THEE Game this year? I can see Moorehead and Snookie developing some very good conversations.

dezzzR
03-01-2012, 02:13 PM
i dont know her. never even seen her.So you double bagged it????

...1 bag for her head and 1 bag for yours

lmao</p>


maybe i was raped. maybe somebody slipped me some floories =\</p>Oh god, now we have to endure you bringing that loudmouth snookie to THEE Game this year? I can see Moorehead and Snookie developing some very good conversations.pizzle wont let mh anywhere near his baby.

lttaylor56
03-01-2012, 02:27 PM
i dont know her. never even seen her.So you double bagged it????

...1 bag for her head and 1 bag for yours

lmao</p>


maybe i was raped. maybe somebody slipped me some floories =\</p>Oh god, now we have to endure you bringing that loudmouth snookie to THEE Game this year? I can see Moorehead and Snookie developing some very good conversations.pizzle wont let mh anywhere near his baby.
Even if he promises not to talk politics? awwww shucks.

lttaylor56
03-01-2012, 02:31 PM
http://www.allmotivated.com/pictures/Demotivational-pictures-popular_Guy.jpg

JPizzack
03-01-2012, 02:47 PM
This could be the strangest conversation Thee Swag Threaders have ever had.....you ****ing weirdos

lttaylor56
03-01-2012, 02:48 PM
This could be the strangest conversation Thee Swag Threaders have ever had.....you ****ing weirdosHas it even been confirmed that you impregnated snookie? I move for a dna test. lol

JPizzack
03-01-2012, 02:53 PM
This could be the strangest conversation Thee Swag Threaders have ever had.....you ****ing weirdosHas it even been confirmed that you impregnated snookie? I move for a dna test. lol</P>


kinda hard to knock someone up if youve never even seen them before &gt;.&lt;</P>

dezzzR
03-01-2012, 02:54 PM
again when you looking at YOUR facebook page, the people on the left are people who look at your page, right or wrong?

JPizzack
03-01-2012, 02:57 PM
again when you looking at YOUR facebook page, the people on the left are people who look at your page, right or wrong?
</P>


lol how do we have any way of confirming that?? I have no idea</P>


why dont you call mark zuckerberg and ask?</P>

lttaylor56
03-01-2012, 03:05 PM
again when you looking at YOUR facebook page, the people on the left are people who look at your page, right or wrong?
</P>


lol how do we have any way of confirming that?? I have no idea</P>


why dont you call mark zuckerberg and ask?</P>What is dezz trying to say? Who of interest comes up on Pizz's facebook as an admirer. It's ok Pizz, Rockstars always make poor decisions in the heat of passion.

JPizzack
03-01-2012, 03:08 PM
again when you looking at YOUR facebook page, the people on the left are people who look at your page, right or wrong?
</P>


lol how do we have any way of confirming that?? I have no idea</P>


why dont you call mark zuckerberg and ask?</P>


What is dezz trying to say? Who of interest comes up on Pizz's facebook as an admirer. It's ok Pizz, Rockstars always make poor decisions in the heat of passion.</P>


whatI think he's asking is: if there's a way to see whos looking at your facebook profile. and last i checked, there was no way to figure that out.</P>

lttaylor56
03-01-2012, 03:13 PM
again when you looking at YOUR facebook page, the people on the left are people who look at your page, right or wrong?
</P>


lol how do we have any way of confirming that?? I have no idea</P>


why dont you call mark zuckerberg and ask?</P>


What is dezz trying to say? Who of interest comes up on Pizz's facebook as an admirer. It's ok Pizz, Rockstars always make poor decisions in the heat of passion.</P>


what*I think he's asking is: if there's a way to see whos looking at your facebook profile. and last i checked, there was no way to figure that out.</P>oh, he's not inferring that Snookie has been looking at your FB? Not that I am surprised at all if she has been, lol

JPizzack
03-01-2012, 03:17 PM
again when you looking at YOUR facebook page, the people on the left are people who look at your page, right or wrong?
</P>


lol how do we have any way of confirming that?? I have no idea</P>


why dont you call mark zuckerberg and ask?</P>


What is dezz trying to say? Who of interest comes up on Pizz's facebook as an admirer. It's ok Pizz, Rockstars always make poor decisions in the heat of passion.</P>


whatI think he's asking is: if there's a way to see whos looking at your facebook profile. and last i checked, there was no way to figure that out.</P>


oh, he's not inferring that Snookie has been looking at your FB? Not that I am surprised at all if she has been, lol</P>


lol. ppl know my last name....we're kind of a big deal, ya know? maybe shes stalking me, never know.</P>

lttaylor56
03-01-2012, 03:20 PM
again when you looking at YOUR facebook page, the people on the left are people who look at your page, right or wrong?
</P>


lol how do we have any way of confirming that?? I have no idea</P>


why dont you call mark zuckerberg and ask?</P>


What is dezz trying to say? Who of interest comes up on Pizz's facebook as an admirer. It's ok Pizz, Rockstars always make poor decisions in the heat of passion.</P>


what*I think he's asking is: if there's a way to see whos looking at your facebook profile. and last i checked, there was no way to figure that out.</P>


oh, he's not inferring that Snookie has been looking at your FB? Not that I am surprised at all if she has been, lol</P>


lol. ppl know my last name....we're kind of a big deal, ya know? maybe shes stalking me, never know.</P>I kinda jealous, Snookie doesn't care who I am.

JPizzack
03-01-2012, 03:22 PM
I kinda jealous, Snookie doesn't care who I am.</P>


I kinda hope she never knows who i am. that could be crippling to my reputation of awesomeness</P>

bigblue4417
03-01-2012, 04:38 PM
<div class="report">


Eagles applied the franchise tag to free agent WR DeSean Jackson.</p>
</div>
<div class="impact">
"We want DeSean to be an Eagle for the long
haul and this is a step ... to accomplish that," announced GM Howie
Roseman. "We will continue our efforts on getting a long-term deal done
with him." We wouldn't hold our breath on that one. The Eagles are
reportedly open to trade offers on Jackson, though the most likely
scenario is a return to Philadelphia at $9.5 million, perhaps after
missing offseason workouts in protest. If Jackson shows improved
attitude and production, the Eagles can then reward him with a long-term
deal in November.
</div>

JPizzack
03-02-2012, 09:20 AM
whattup biznatches

Kase-1
03-02-2012, 09:26 AM
Rex just said to me that he wanted me back. He did say that, so I do
know that they do want me. You know, being a free agent I do know that
it’s a business — and I’m gonna weigh my options. I’m always chasing
championships, so we’ll see what happens.”
“With all the players that they already have in place, I just see myself
going to where I could help that team win a championship,” said
Burress. “Obviously playing with Michael, we’ve known each other pretty
much since junior high school. If I go to that team and score some
touchdowns in the red zone I really believe they have the opportunity to
go to the Super Bowl and win it.”


Plax is such a clown, can someone hand him a gun and let him do the rest

ny06
03-02-2012, 09:33 AM
Rex just said to me that he wanted me back. He did say that, so I do know that they do want me. You know, being a free agent I do know that it’s a business — and I’m gonna weigh my options. I’m always chasing championships, so we’ll see what happens.”
“With all the players that they already have in place, I just see myself going to where I could help that team win a championship,” said Burress. “Obviously playing with Michael, we’ve known each other pretty much since junior high school. If I go to that team and score some touchdowns in the red zone I really believe they have the opportunity to go to the Super Bowl and win it.”


Plax is such a clown, can someone hand him a gun and let him do the rest
</P>


What's funny is Plax is lobbying himself to the Eagles. </P>


But I don't see the Eagles interested in him at all. </P>


"I’m always chasing championships"</P>


What he really means. I'm always chasing the money</P>

lttaylor56
03-02-2012, 10:06 AM
Rex just said to me that he wanted me back. He did say that, so I do know that they do want me. You know, being a free agent I do know that it’s a business — and I’m gonna weigh my options. I’m always chasing championships, so we’ll see what happens.”
“With all the players that they already have in place, I just see myself going to where I could help that team win a championship,” said Burress. “Obviously playing with Michael, we’ve known each other pretty much since junior high school. If I go to that team and score some touchdowns in the red zone I really believe they have the opportunity to go to the Super Bowl and win it.”


Plax is such a clown, can someone hand him a gun and let him do the rest
</P>


What's funny is Plax is lobbying himself to the Eagles. </P>


But I don't see the Eagles interested in him at all. </P>


"I’m always chasing championships"</P>


What he really means. I'm always chasing the money</P>Ha-ha, what a dork. The new LT sig is awesome!

JPizzack
03-02-2012, 10:14 AM
cool sig

DavenIII
03-02-2012, 10:15 AM
holy crap Pizz, 1600 Karma from one link...not bad, not bad I never make
links but with that one link you topped all my comment Karma :(



I'm gonna need to repost something to get some link Karma soon I think.

JPizzack
03-02-2012, 10:18 AM
holy crap Pizz, 1600 Karma from one link...not bad, not bad I never make links but with that one link you topped all my comment Karma :(

I'm gonna need to repost something to get some link Karma soon I think.</P>


;)</P>


</P>


haha repost karma wh0re! =P</P>

DavenIII
03-02-2012, 10:24 AM
holy crap Pizz, 1600 Karma from one link...not bad, not bad I never make links but with that one link you topped all my comment Karma :(

I'm gonna need to repost something to get some link Karma soon I think.</p>


;)</p>


</p>


haha repost karma wh0re! =P</p>

I think yours was too by the way...or at least that's what RES is telling me :P

JPizzack
03-02-2012, 10:26 AM
holy crap Pizz, 1600 Karma from one link...not bad, not bad I never make links but with that one link you topped all my comment Karma :(

I'm gonna need to repost something to get some link Karma soon I think.</P>


;)</P>


</P>


haha repost karma wh0re! =P</P>




I think yours was too by the way...or at least that's what RES is telling me :P
</P>


Well....I literally took the photo myself...soooo unless someone tried to steal it? not possible.
I can text it to you if you'd like....along with an alternate angle for proof [;)]</P>

dezzzR
03-02-2012, 10:26 AM
Ross or Thomas?

JPizzack
03-02-2012, 10:28 AM
Ross or Thomas?
</P>


youd figure it would be a clear decision...but we have no idea how Thomas will be.
doesnt that suck!??!</P>

DavenIII
03-02-2012, 10:35 AM
Well....I literally took the photo myself...soooo unless someone tried to steal it? not possible.
I can text it to you if you'd like....along with an alternate angle for proof [;)]</p>

I just started using Reddit Enhancement Suite, next to your post it says [RES Ignored duplicate Image] maybe that means someone used it as a repost then? not sure could mean nothing.

lttaylor56
03-02-2012, 10:38 AM
Ross or Thomas?
</P>


youd figure it would be a clear decision...but we have no idea how Thomas will be.
doesnt that suck!??!</P>How's snookie?

JPizzack
03-02-2012, 10:39 AM
Well....I literally took the photo myself...soooo unless someone tried to steal it? not possible.
I can text it to you if you'd like....along with an alternate angle for proof [;)]</P>




I just started using Reddit Enhancement Suite, next to your post it says [RES Ignored duplicate Image] maybe that means someone used it as a repost then? not sure could mean nothing.
</P>


i have RES on my home computer, but i dont know what all the different things mean yet really</P>

dezzzR
03-02-2012, 10:40 AM
Ross or Thomas?
</p>


youd figure it would be a clear decision...but we have no idea how Thomas will be.
doesnt that suck!??!</p>How's snookie?lmao mission accomplished.

dezzzR
03-02-2012, 10:42 AM
Ross or Thomas?
</p>


youd figure it would be a clear decision...<u>but we have no idea how Thomas will be.</u>
doesnt that suck!??!</p>Which is why it would be stupid to dump Ross. Ross sucked so bad in the beginning of the season but really turned it around.

JPizzack
03-02-2012, 10:50 AM
Ross or Thomas?
</P>


youd figure it would be a clear decision...<U>but we have no idea how Thomas will be.</U>
doesnt that suck!??!</P>


Which is why it would be stupid to dump Ross. Ross sucked so bad in the beginning of the season but really turned it around.
</P>


doesnt that piss you off?? he's like the least consistent player i've ever seen. he's had really good games against good receivers....and then gets totally beat by jobbers &gt;.&gt; wtf...</P>

lttaylor56
03-02-2012, 10:56 AM
Ross or Thomas?
</p>


youd figure it would be a clear decision...but we have no idea how Thomas will be.
doesnt that suck!??!</p>How's snookie?lmao mission accomplished.

Im not saying that reddit is not all that, but I gotta agree with the kid on stumbleupon. I surfed it for a brief time last night and I like it.

lttaylor56
03-02-2012, 10:58 AM
Ross or Thomas?
</P>


youd figure it would be a clear decision...<U>but we have no idea how Thomas will be.</U>
doesnt that suck!??!</P>


Which is why it would be stupid to dump Ross. Ross sucked so bad in the beginning of the season but really turned it around.
</P>


doesnt that piss you off?? he's like the least consistent player i've ever seen. he's had really good games against good receivers....and then gets totally beat by jobbers >.> wtf...</P>Inconsistent is perfect word for Thomas....and then there's those plays where he lays the lead on a receiver and I'm lovin him.

dezzzR
03-02-2012, 11:13 AM
Ross or Thomas?
</p>


youd figure it would be a clear decision...but we have no idea how Thomas will be.
doesnt that suck!??!</p>How's snookie?lmao mission accomplished.

Im not saying that reddit is not all that, but I gotta agree with the kid on stumbleupon. I surfed it for a brief time last night and I like it. Im looking at a naked girl with a fat *** sitting on a swing as we speak. lol

egyptian420
03-02-2012, 11:32 AM
Ross or Thomas?
</p>


youd figure it would be a clear decision...<u>but we have no idea how Thomas will be.</u>
doesnt that suck!??!</p>


Which is why it would be stupid to dump Ross. Ross sucked so bad in the beginning of the season but really turned it around.
</p>


doesnt that piss you off?? he's like the least consistent player i've ever seen. he's had really good games against good receivers....and then gets totally beat by jobbers &gt;.&gt; wtf...</p>Inconsistent is perfect word for Thomas....and then there's those plays where he lays the lead on a receiver and I'm lovin him.
Good ball hawk but terrible in coverage....I think he's a good nickle corner

JPizzack
03-02-2012, 11:37 AM
Good ball hawk but terrible in coverage....I think he's a good nickle corner
</P>


wtf....
I said this every year he played, and people wanted to burn me at the ****ing stake.
"OMG, TT had such a good season! He's our best corner!"

What is so good about getting ****ing torched on 70% of your plays?! He's a GREAT athlete, but he would be a better safety, or even a NB like you said.</P>


that being said though, i do like, but choosing between him and ross is hard, because neither of them are particularly awesome. Let's just hope that Prince ends up as good as we all knew he was in college! lol</P>

lttaylor56
03-02-2012, 11:48 AM
This Disney Rio Character cracks me up:

http://www.filmonair.com/img/video/rio_clipbirdsvsmonkey_hd.jpg

lttaylor56
03-02-2012, 11:50 AM
Ross or Thomas?
</p>


youd figure it would be a clear decision...but we have no idea how Thomas will be.
doesnt that suck!??!</p>How's snookie?lmao mission accomplished.

Im not saying that reddit is not all that, but I gotta agree with the kid on stumbleupon. I surfed it for a brief time last night and I like it. Im looking at a naked girl with a fat *** sitting on a swing as we speak. lol
lmao God Bless Stumble

dezzzR
03-02-2012, 11:54 AM
Good ball hawk but terrible in coverage....I think he's a good nickle corner
</p>


wtf....
I said this every year he played, and people wanted to burn me at the ****ing stake.
<u>"OMG, TT had such a good season! He's our best corner!"</u>

What is so good about getting ****ing torched on 70% of your plays?! He's a GREAT athlete, but he would be a better safety, or even a NB like you said.</p>


that being said though, i do like, but choosing between him and ross is hard, because neither of them are particularly awesome. Let's just hope that Prince ends up as good as we all knew he was in college! lol</p>Iv always argued against that. I always thought he was decent at best. Qbs would look right at him after the snap in 2010. 420 has it right, good ballhawk but very inconsistent in coverage. I put a lot of blame on him for the dec 19th debacle. Playing 10 yards off Maclin on your own 10?!?! That was on Perry too. My blood still boils just thinking about it.

dezzzR
03-02-2012, 01:39 PM
http://media-cdn.pinterest.com/upload/188588303115733729_ZQl56CQs_c.jpg
lol

JPizzack
03-02-2012, 01:43 PM
I like this one better...lmao
http://i.imgur.com/iXI8q.jpg</P>


sorry, pic is too big...</P>

lttaylor56
03-02-2012, 02:00 PM
lol...Just because they walk among us, we cannot assume that they are normal. lmao.

MattMeyerBud
03-02-2012, 02:06 PM
Good ball hawk but terrible in coverage....I think he's a good nickle corner
</p>


wtf....
I said this every year he played, and people wanted to burn me at the ****ing stake.
<u>"OMG, TT had such a good season! He's our best corner!"</u>

What is so good about getting ****ing torched on 70% of your plays?! He's a GREAT athlete, but he would be a better safety, or even a NB like you said.</p>


that being said though, i do like, but choosing between him and ross is hard, because neither of them are particularly awesome. Let's just hope that Prince ends up as good as we all knew he was in college! lol</p>Iv always argued against that. I always thought he was decent at best. Qbs would look right at him after the snap in 2010. 420 has it right, good ballhawk but very inconsistent in coverage. I put a lot of blame on him for the dec 19th debacle. Playing 10 yards off Maclin on your own 10?!?! That was on Perry too. My blood still boils just thinking about it.


T2 played some damn fine football for us.

Ross earned himself a real nice contract this year. Hes gone and somebody is going to pay him

Keeping T2 over ross is just because we can get a 2 year value deal off of him, otherwise its a toss up if they were at the same price. But they won't be.

QBs always tend to pick on the weaker corner.

But the dude forces fumbles, plays the run, can ball hawk - i like him. It'll be great to have him back if hes healthy