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View Full Version : Would moving to a 34 front solve our run defense problems?



Banks_Reasons_Carson_LT
12-24-2012, 06:24 PM
It took the skins a year to get the scheme and personal right but JPP could be moved to the LT position.

Release tuck and osi

Get three big body tackles in the inside

Need a Sam lb that can control the TE

Two stud inside LBs like wills/bowman


The 49ers have taken over from the steelers as the model defense because they do the basics well every play

M00KIE
12-24-2012, 07:05 PM
Soo basically replace the entire Dline and LBers? Sounds good, but won't happen in one offseason. We can't find a good LBer now. We haven't had a really good LBer since the 90's. That's sad. And you think we can get 4 of them? :eek:

jgrangers11
12-24-2012, 07:11 PM
I don't know if JPP can work in that LT position. I'd rather just work in the 4-3 base and find players to fit in it. Maybe we should use Kiwi to replace Osi when he leaves and possibly look for another pass rusher in the draft. We do need to fix the linebacking corp though.

Joe Morrison
12-27-2012, 10:24 AM
Guess that game against the Ravens answered that question, the Giants don't even have 3 good LB's and you want them to play 4? Don't wish for something that might come true, beat down by Ravens last week.

Toadofsteel
12-27-2012, 10:29 AM
Getting rid of Tuck and Osi, and replacing them with young blood that is hungry to get out there and punch o-lines in the mouth is how we fix our front 7...

JJC7301
12-27-2012, 11:10 AM
Oh man, I LOVE the 3 - 4. Have ever since we ran it throughout the '80s. I'd have no problem trying to make the switch, but no problem either if we stuck to the 4 - 3. It may be easier to just get another DE and DT then reshuffling the fron 7 players.

Mercury
12-27-2012, 11:23 AM
I think we could really do with a change on D, but I think we are miles away from a 3-4 D. We'd need a nose tackle, which we don't have. Guys like Canty and JPP could be DEs in a 3-4. We'd need good LBers, which we don't have. And we have Oline problems, so we can't spend all our picks on good LBers.

If we go to a 3-4, I think we'd have to draft toward that goal for a year, then make the switch heading into another draft. Even then, it would probably take a year longer to get it down right.

JJC7301
12-27-2012, 11:48 AM
I think we could really do with a change on D, but I think we are miles away from a 3-4 D. We'd need a nose tackle, which we don't have. Guys like Canty and JPP could be DEs in a 3-4. We'd need good LBers, which we don't have. And we have Oline problems, so we can't spend all our picks on good LBers.

If we go to a 3-4, I think we'd have to draft toward that goal for a year, then make the switch heading into another draft. Even then, it would probably take a year longer to get it down right.
Yep. The Giants just won a SB and are an extremely competitive team. They've got their franchise QB in the middle of his career. Making the switch to the 34 would take a few years and I don't know about doing that right now when we've got talent on this team -- enough talent to make another SB run over the next few years.

Just want to point out that Cofield has been the NT for the 'skins, and has been doing it very well, from what I've read. I'm a big Cofield supporter, so just wanted to throw that out there. Never should have let him walk. Probably the only bad decision that JR's made in terms of what talent to let go.

RoanokeFan
12-27-2012, 11:50 AM
It took the skins a year to get the scheme and personal right but JPP could be moved to the LT position.

Release tuck and osi

Get three big body tackles in the inside

Need a Sam lb that can control the TE

Two stud inside LBs like wills/bowman


The 49ers have taken over from the steelers as the model defense because they do the basics well every play

You could be out of contention for 2 - 3 years

GameTime
12-27-2012, 11:51 AM
its not the base D thats the problem.
a 3-4 wouldnt work if the players weren't good enough either.....

SweetZombieJesus
12-27-2012, 11:56 AM
Yes, putting fewer players on the line and relying on our terrible LB corps is clearly the answer.

We haven't drafted a stud LB since Jesse Armstead (1993) and you want to put 4 on the field at the same time. Brilliant!

Redeyejedi
12-27-2012, 11:56 AM
Its more about how good yours players are then whether its 3-4 or 4-3. Collect as many physically talented versatile players as U can and u will be just fine

Redeyejedi
12-27-2012, 12:00 PM
It took the skins a year to get the scheme and personal right but JPP could be moved to the LT position.

Release tuck and osi

Get three big body tackles in the inside

Need a Sam lb that can control the TE

Two stud inside LBs like wills/bowman


The 49ers have taken over from the steelers as the model defense because they do the basics well every playThe 49ers have a good defense because they have good players,are physical, and tackle well. Also health is a big asset. up till last week the 49ers started the same 11 players on Defense all year. Thats ridiculous I wouldnt be surprised if the Giants started 20

Giantslb66
12-27-2012, 12:03 PM
Soo basically replace the entire Dline and LBers? Sounds good, but won't happen in one offseason. We can't find a good LBer now. We haven't had a really good LBer since the 90's. That's sad. And you think we can get 4 of them? :eek: Jesse Armstead could STILL play better than any of our current LBs!!!

RoanokeFan
12-27-2012, 12:22 PM
Its more about how good yours players are then whether its 3-4 or 4-3. Collect as many physically talented versatile players as U can and u will be just fine

You can't leave out the line and linebacker coaches. They would have to be comfortable in that alignment as well.

Mercury
12-27-2012, 12:40 PM
Yep. The Giants just won a SB and are an extremely competitive team. They've got their franchise QB in the middle of his career. Making the switch to the 34 would take a few years and I don't know about doing that right now when we've got talent on this team -- enough talent to make another SB run over the next few years.

Just want to point out that Cofield has been the NT for the 'skins, and has been doing it very well, from what I've read. I'm a big Cofield supporter, so just wanted to throw that out there. Never should have let him walk. Probably the only bad decision that JR's made in terms of what talent to let go.

I was sorry to see Cofield go too, I think most of us were. However, you are forgetting how much it would have cost to keep him. And we had a young Linval, 2nd rounder to replace him. Can't keep a guy like that on the bench.

GoDeep80
12-27-2012, 12:51 PM
DEs- Canty, (Margus Hunt via draft)
NT- Linval
OLBs- JPP, Kiwi, with Tracy rotating.
ILB- (Draft), Boley.
CB- Prince, Hosley, ???, ???
S- Rolle, Brown, Hill/Draft rotating

Banks_Reasons_Carson_LT
12-27-2012, 02:44 PM
If we cannot stop the run we will never be in contention.

Reese needs to upgrade the linebackers in any current or future scheme

JJC7301
12-27-2012, 02:56 PM
I was sorry to see Cofield go too, I think most of us were. However, you are forgetting how much it would have cost to keep him. And we had a young Linval, 2nd rounder to replace him. Can't keep a guy like that on the bench.
I'd rather have Cofield over Canty and/or Joseph. I think that Canty stinks and that Joseph is pretty good, but Cofield is better. Plus Cofield is getting the same amount $$ per year as Canty, but at one less year.

Sorry, didn't mean to go on so much about Cofield. But he would have been a good NT since we're talking about 34 defenses for the Giants.

Hooligans
12-27-2012, 03:23 PM
It took the skins a year to get the scheme and personal right but JPP could be moved to the LT position.

Release tuck and osi

Get three big body tackles in the inside

Need a Sam lb that can control the TE

Two stud inside LBs like wills/bowman


The 49ers have taken over from the steelers as the model defense because they do the basics well every play

To Play the 3-4, you have to have monster Defensive linemen and a bunch of good linebackers.......the Giants don't have any good linebackers and just a few good Defenseive linemen...none of them monsters.

flashnando
12-27-2012, 03:42 PM
If the Giants put 34 players on the front I hope to goodness they stop the run lol (sorry couldn't help it)

AntB
12-27-2012, 03:54 PM
I don't see why Linval cant play the nose and you could have Kiwi and JPP at the DE's. Boley, Blackburn and Hertzling in the middle and Payzinger or Williams at ROL. We have the old timer to spell Linvil and Canty, OSi, Tuck and the rookie to keep the DE's a rest when they need one.

slipknottin
12-27-2012, 06:37 PM
JPP is way too big to play as an OLB. He would have to play DE.

You cant be an effective 3-4 OLB at 290+ pounds. (the mario williams problem)

Kiwi perhaps could be the strongside linebacker.

Linval perhaps as the nose.

Canty at the other end.

But the biggest problem is they have no weakside OLB, and they have no ILBs.

So ultimately they still need at least a couple linebackers, and another great pass rusher.

Which is the same needs they have with a 4-3.

But moving to the 3-4 you have everyone learning a new system, you have JPP and Canty spending time occupying blockers a lot of the time, and you dont know how any of those guys project

fourth&forever
12-27-2012, 07:35 PM
.... The 49ers have taken over from the steelers as the model defense because they do the basics well every play

If we did the basics well every play, we'd be the model 4-3. There was a time not too long ago...

radar-ray
12-27-2012, 08:10 PM
Don't have the LB talent/personel.

BlueBlooded1979
12-27-2012, 10:51 PM
Lets dispel a few myths.

Houston made the switch when they brought Wade Phillips in and they were immediately a Top 5 defense. Several years of "not contending" is asinine

JJ Watt is very disruptive as a 3-4 DE. JPP could take that role or he could drop 10-15 lbs and play OLB. Edge rushers are easier to find than an interiro player than can cause real havoc. Given his athleticism and his lack of true football history he transitions very well.

When you are talking about the 3-4 vs 4-3 then what you are talking about is run defense. Most teams run a 4 man line for passing downs and hybrid fronts in their sub packages.

I do believe that this team needs a talent infusion on the DL especially on the inside. Outside of Linval they are soft inside. Employing multiple fronts with versatile pieces is the way to go. Too many big contracts, big reputations and too little production.