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WiIdcat
12-26-2012, 01:57 AM
Should the Giants just do whatever it takes to get this guy? Last year the Cowboys traded up from 14 to 6 to pick a player who they thought would be a superstar in Claibourne. The Giants will most likely pick 18-20 and could use their 2nd to get into the top 10. Some people want to say that MLBs aren't worth that high of a pick but I beg to differ. Te'o could instantly step in and make a HUGE impact on this defense. He is a great leader with the ability to not only stop the run, but also cover the pass well. Plus is he a playmaker as he proved this year by almost winning the Heisman!

The Giants are sorely missing a man to hold down the middle and have been for years. Chase Blackburn is horrible in pass coverage but according to PFF he's even worse against the run. Te'o would solve this problem.

penguinfarmer
12-27-2012, 08:29 PM
No.

GMENAGAIN
12-27-2012, 08:35 PM
Our second round pick probably would not be enough to move up from 18-20 to the top 10, plus I don't think that the Giants would move up that much for a MLB.

Our only hope is that he drops because he is not a workout warrior on the post-season circuit.

Cloud57
12-27-2012, 08:39 PM
I would love to have him on our team but unfortunately we'll probably end up with some scrub MLB

Imgrate
12-27-2012, 09:07 PM
Not interested in a mlb in the first round. We already wasted a first round pick on a low value position last year. We have to come away with a DE DT or CB

Redeyejedi
12-28-2012, 01:01 AM
Not interested in a mlb in the first round. We already wasted a first round pick on a low value position last year. We have to come away with a DE DT or CBi agree i want a pass rusher

Rat_bastich
12-28-2012, 02:05 AM
Would love to have the guy, but I don't think the Giants should give up any picks when they need help in alot of places. Defensive end is a must as well as cornerback and offensive line. Depends on what they do in free agency but tight end might be added to the list.

myles2424
12-28-2012, 03:29 AM
i agree i want a pass rusher
I'm not familiar with many guys outside of the 1st round....& it feels like Ansah and Hunt will have Alot of momentum heading into the draft & will be drafted higher than expected....who'd fit & possibly be around in the 2nd?
I can see Oline,DT,CB being more likely in the 1st

nycsportzfan
12-28-2012, 06:34 AM
Should the Giants just do whatever it takes to get this guy? Last year the Cowboys traded up from 14 to 6 to pick a player who they thought would be a superstar in Claibourne. The Giants will most likely pick 18-20 and could use their 2nd to get into the top 10. Some people want to say that MLBs aren't worth that high of a pick but I beg to differ. Te'o could instantly step in and make a HUGE impact on this defense. He is a great leader with the ability to not only stop the run, but also cover the pass well. Plus is he a playmaker as he proved this year by almost winning the Heisman!

The Giants are sorely missing a man to hold down the middle and have been for years. Chase Blackburn is horrible in pass coverage but according to PFF he's even worse against the run. Te'o would solve this problem. Nah, we gotta trade for ex picks before trading picks i think? Either way, Te'o would be a awesome additon and one that would go along way into changing our defense from where it is now and where we need it to be..

People keep saying we need to draft a DE in RD 1, but that isn't gonna help this defense if the player isn't really good.. What i mean is, team needs and what not change all the time, almost wk to wk really, and if a DE is there and seems like a logical pick, then fine, but if theres a better pure playmaker and diffrence maker out there, then go get him!

Look what Luke Kuechly is doing for the panthers defense! Hes freaking litteraly transforming them into a solid unit ever since hes been inserted into the middle of that defense.. They've been a solid unit and continue to get better... Hes been as awesome as i said he was gonna be... Hes a diffrence maker.. U need guys like that, and we have absoulutley none at any LB positon...

nycsportzfan
12-28-2012, 06:51 AM
Not interested in a mlb in the first round. We already wasted a first round pick on a low value position last year. We have to come away with a DE DT or CB A waste? Have u seen what Luke Kuechly is doing in Carolina? Single Handedly making that defense legit since hes moved to middle as a starter... I remember mad of my draft guru friends on here were trying to say he wasen't a top 10pick, and i said not only will he go in top 10, he'll be a stud.. Why? Because he changes games and makes plays and of course is all over the field...

so, u think Kuechly is a wasted pick becuase he plays MLB? Look at these numbers- 151tackles 11TFL, 2INT, 1SACK, 3FR 6Pass defended..etc

Like i said, single handedly turned that defense which has solid, but not spectacular pass rush.. Theres gonna be days u don't have a pass rush, no matter who u have, and its those games, u need to have guys who can cover, and have speed, and can hit and make plays.. Guys like Kuechly, Ogletree, Te'o, all fall in that category...

Imgrate
12-28-2012, 08:31 AM
A waste? Have u seen what Luke Kuechly is doing in Carolina? Single Handedly making that defense legit since hes moved to middle as a starter... I remember mad of my draft guru friends on here were trying to say he wasen't a top 10pick, and i said not only will he go in top 10, he'll be a stud.. Why? Because he changes games and makes plays and of course is all over the field... so, u think Kuechly is a wasted pick becuase he plays MLB? Look at these numbers- 151tackles 11TFL, 2INT, 1SACK, 3FR 6Pass defended..etc Like i said, single handedly turned that defense which has solid, but not spectacular pass rush.. Theres gonna be days u don't have a pass rush, no matter who u have, and its those games, u need to have guys who can cover, and have speed, and can hit and make plays.. Guys like Kuechly, Ogletree, Te'o, all fall in that category...How many games they win this year? When you invest alot of resources into rb and lber like the panthers , you arent going to win on a consistent basis

GMENAGAIN
12-28-2012, 08:56 AM
How many games they win this year? When you invest alot of resources into rb and lber like the panthers , you arent going to win on a consistent basis

So they didn't win a lot of games because they drafted Kuechly? That makes no sense at all

Imgrate
12-28-2012, 09:05 AM
So they didn't win a lot of games because they drafted Kuechly? That makes no sense at all Their team sucks because they continuously invest a lot of resources into low impact positions. They had josh norman starting cb and a dl littered with scrubs. Meanwhile, they have used a 1st rd pick on jon stewart, gave deangelo a huge contract and then wasted some more money on tolbert. They have two first round picks at lber in a. 4-3

nycsportzfan
12-28-2012, 09:42 AM
Their team sucks because they continuously invest a lot of resources into low impact positions. They had josh norman starting cb and a dl littered with scrubs. Meanwhile, they have used a 1st rd pick on jon stewart, gave deangelo a huge contract and then wasted some more money on tolbert. They have two first round picks at lber in a. 4-3 U do realize they drafted Chris Gamble in the first rd, Sherrod Martin in the 2nd rd, Josh Norman in the 3rd rd, Charles Godfrey in the 3rd rd, right? Thats picking up a bunch of secondary help over the yrs all in 1st-3rd rd.. Has it helped em? No.. Why? Becuase it takes more then taking ur so called "positonal importance" and leaving talent out on the draft table becuase u think a certain positon is more important..

The panthers would of been mentally handicapped had they left such a stud in Kuechly on the field and took Fletcher Cox DT Miss St.. Why? Becuase Kuechly is simply gonna be a better player and change more games.. The panthers have drafted with ur Positonal Importance for yrs, and haven't had much success.. Completely diffrent scenario with there RB picks becuase they thought they were getting a once in a lifetime type player in Williams and a Stephen Jackson esque runner in Stewart.. Those are teh kinda RB's u take a chance on.. Bottom line is u just need good players all around, and the panthers havent' gotten there yet, but are on there way...

nycsportzfan
12-28-2012, 09:44 AM
Their team sucks because they continuously invest a lot of resources into low impact positions. They had josh norman starting cb and a dl littered with scrubs. Meanwhile, they have used a 1st rd pick on jon stewart, gave deangelo a huge contract and then wasted some more money on tolbert. They have two first round picks at lber in a. 4-3 There Dline is littered with scrubs? They got the 10th and 13th NFL leading sack men on there Dline..lol Oh ya, and the leader of that Sack attack, is Greg Hardy who was drafted in the 4th or 5th rd..lol

Greg Hardy has exactly one half sack less and almost double the tackles of there big loss of Julius Peppers..lol What a huge loss for them(sarcasm)..lol

Redeyejedi
12-28-2012, 10:10 AM
There Dline is littered with scrubs? They got the 10th and 13th NFL leading sack men on there Dline..lol Oh ya, and the leader of that Sack attack, is Greg Hardy who was drafted in the 4th or 5th rd..lol

Greg Hardy has exactly one half sack less and almost double the tackles of there big loss of Julius Peppers..lol What a huge loss for them(sarcasm)..lolGreg Hardy wasnt the normal type of middle round DE pick. He just had injuries but he could of been a 1st rounder. They just took a chance on him it was a good move.

Imgrate
12-28-2012, 12:23 PM
U do realize they drafted Chris Gamble in the first rd, Sherrod Martin in the 2nd rd, Josh Norman in the 3rd rd, Charles Godfrey in the 3rd rd, right? Thats picking up a bunch of secondary help over the yrs all in 1st-3rd rd.. Has it helped em? No.. Why? Becuase it takes more then taking ur so called "positonal importance" and leaving talent out on the draft table becuase u think a certain positon is more important.. The panthers would of been mentally handicapped had they left such a stud in Kuechly on the field and took Fletcher Cox DT Miss St.. Why? Becuase Kuechly is simply gonna be a better player and change more games.. The panthers have drafted with ur Positonal Importance for yrs, and haven't had much success.. Completely diffrent scenario with there RB picks becuase they thought they were getting a once in a lifetime type player in Williams and a Stephen Jackson esque runner in Stewart.. Those are teh kinda RB's u take a chance on.. Bottom line is u just need good players all around, and the panthers havent' gotten there yet, but are on there way...They drafted gamble like ten years ago. We've drafted four corners in the first two rounds in that same timespan. The panthers absolutely would have been better off with cox. MLBs are not worth investing in. The difference in impact of a terrible 43 mlb like chase and a good one like keuchly is very small. How many turnovers has chase caused this year and how many has keuchly caused?

thegiantsrule10
12-28-2012, 01:04 PM
They drafted gamble like ten years ago. We've drafted four corners in the first two rounds in that same timespan. The panthers absolutely would have been better off with cox. MLBs are not worth investing in. The difference in impact of a terrible 43 mlb like chase and a good one like keuchly is very small. How many turnovers has chase caused this year and how many has keuchly caused?

Just because chase has caused more turnovers than Keuchly doesn't mean hes had a bigger impact. I live down south and i always watch the panthers. Since Keuchly has moved into the middle after Beason got injured he has became a leader on that defense. He has great instincts and is an all around stud, He's a type of player you want your defense built around.

Imgrate
12-28-2012, 01:12 PM
Just because chase has caused more turnovers than Keuchly doesn't mean hes had a bigger impact. I live down south and i always watch the panthers. Since Keuchly has moved into the middle after Beason got injured he has became a leader on that defense. He has great instincts and is an all around stud, He's a type of player you want your defense built around. You win the turnover battle, you tend to win the game. The nfl is all about big plays.

WiIdcat
12-28-2012, 02:30 PM
They drafted gamble like ten years ago. We've drafted four corners in the first two rounds in that same timespan. The panthers absolutely would have been better off with cox. MLBs are not worth investing in. The difference in impact of a terrible 43 mlb like chase and a good one like keuchly is very small. How many turnovers has chase caused this year and how many has keuchly caused?

Luke Kuechly in his rookie year is already 10x better than Blackburn and he has been in the league for 7 years. PFF has Kuechly as the #5 overall ILB in the league this year. Blackburn? #46 lol he is so bad.

There is no such thing as a higher position of importance, especially on defense. Good players make plays at any position on the defense. JJ Watt is about to break the sack record as an interior lineman, Aldon Smith is about to break the sack record in his second year on the outside, Ray Lewis is a member of the 40 sack/30 int club, Derrel Revis can shut down anyone, and Ed Reed has been a turnover machine at Safety... Notice the pattern here? Every position can have a huge impact on the game.

Te'o has the play-making ability and leadership qualities to be the next Ray Lewis. In the last 2 seasons he has 235 tackles, 6.5 sacks, 7 interceptions, 13 PDs, and a FF. PLAYMAKER.

myles2424
12-28-2012, 02:49 PM
They drafted gamble like ten years ago. We've drafted four corners in the first two rounds in that same timespan. The panthers absolutely would have been better off with cox. MLBs are not worth investing in. The difference in impact of a terrible 43 mlb like chase and a good one like keuchly is very small. How many turnovers has chase caused this year and how many has keuchly caused?
This whole idea that LBs arent important is ridiculous.....Take all of our LBs off the field & lets see how great our D is starting 8 instead of 11....
If your on the field,then your position is important.....I know theyre not all MLBS, but just within the past few years, Kuechly,Sean Lee,Wagner,Bowman,Weatherspoon,Lavonte David,laurenitis,Perry Riley,Akeem ayers,Burfict have all made their D's better....

WiIdcat
12-28-2012, 04:34 PM
This whole idea that LBs arent important is ridiculous.....Take all of our LBs off the field & lets see how great our D is starting 8 instead of 11....
If your on the field,then your position is important.....I know theyre not all MLBS, but just within the past few years, Kuechly,Sean Lee,Wagner,Bowman,Weatherspoon,Lavonte David,laurenitis,Perry Riley,Akeem ayers,Burfict have all made their D's better....

+1

nycsportzfan
12-28-2012, 04:57 PM
This whole idea that LBs arent important is ridiculous.....Take all of our LBs off the field & lets see how great our D is starting 8 instead of 11....
If your on the field,then your position is important.....I know theyre not all MLBS, but just within the past few years, Kuechly,Sean Lee,Wagner,Bowman,Weatherspoon,Lavonte David,laurenitis,Perry Riley,Akeem ayers,Burfict have all made their D's better.... + A GAZILLION!

Imgrate
12-28-2012, 05:04 PM
This whole idea that LBs arent important is ridiculous.....Take all of our LBs off the field & lets see how great our D is starting 8 instead of 11....If your on the field,then your position is important.....I know theyre not all MLBS, but just within the past few years, Kuechly,Sean Lee,Wagner,Bowman,Weatherspoon,Lavonte David,laurenitis,Perry Riley,Akeem ayers,Burfict have all made their D's better....It's not ridiculous at all. Look how often they get drafted, look how much they get paid. They are not valued because they aren't nearly as important as other positions.

Imgrate
12-28-2012, 05:07 PM
Luke Kuechly in his rookie year is already 10x better than Blackburn and he has been in the league for 7 years. PFF has Kuechly as the #5 overall ILB in the league this year. Blackburn? #46 lol he is so bad. There is no such thing as a higher position of importance, especially on defense. Good players make plays at any position on the defense. JJ Watt is about to break the sack record as an interior lineman, Aldon Smith is about to break the sack record in his second year on the outside, Ray Lewis is a member of the 40 sack/30 int club, Derrel Revis can shut down anyone, and Ed Reed has been a turnover machine at Safety... Notice the pattern here? Every position can have a huge impact on the game.Te'o has the play-making ability and leadership qualities to be the next Ray Lewis. In the last 2 seasons he has 235 tackles, 6.5 sacks, 7 interceptions, 13 PDs, and a FF. PLAYMAKER.Other positions have more impact on the game than mlbs. Your examples of players is all the evidence I need.

nycsportzfan
12-28-2012, 05:09 PM
Greg Hardy wasnt the normal type of middle round DE pick. He just had injuries but he could of been a 1st rounder. They just took a chance on him it was a good move. Could of been, but was instead drafted in ROUND 6.. Round 6!!!lol

nycsportzfan
12-28-2012, 05:14 PM
It's not ridiculous at all. Look how often they get drafted, look how much they get paid. They are not valued because they aren't nearly as important as other positions. are u kidding? First off, no one said a word about drafting a gazillion MLBs in rd 1, it takes special kinda talents to get into RD 1 consideration, and when u find one, they make big diffrences.. U don't just take a DE and leave a prized MLB prospect on the board.. Thats silly.. Of course, if theres a DE worthy of taking, and u need a DE horribly, and hes the better prospect then the MLB, u take em..
I'm just saying, don't leave talent on the draft board to go take antoher positon becuase u think its more important.. Thats nuts..

I'm still wondering why Greg Hardy a 6th rd pick has double the tackles, and half a sack less then Julius Peppers, the guy he replaced and was given gazillions of dollars? U think the Panthers made a bad move then letting him go? I mean, they fixed the problem with a injury prone 6th rd draft pick, and are getting more production then Peppers is getting.. Its not about the postion, but teh players u draft.. U draft good players at any positon, ur gonna eventually notice a diffrence...

nycsportzfan
12-28-2012, 05:21 PM
Luke Keuchly is in prime positon to take home NFL defensive rookie of the yr.. He just won NFL defensive Player of the wk.. I guess someone thinks hes important..


Look at the Tackle leaders in the NFL.. Kuechly is 1st, Greenway is 2nd, Bowman is 3rd, Mayo is 4th, Lauranitis is 5th.. What do they all have in common? 3of5 taken in 1st rd, and one taken early 2nd rd, and one taken in 3rd rd.. All are awesome players who would make a world of diffrence on giants..

Kuechlys on pace to have the most tackles by a rookie since 1991! THe other NFL Rookies to lead the NFL in Tackles are Demeco Ryans and Patrick Willis, and Zach Thomas.. 2of the 3 won DROY...

nycsportzfan
12-28-2012, 05:23 PM
SInce Luke Kuechlys move to MLB, the Panthers have ranked 4th in Total defense..lol 5th in pass defense and 9th in rush defense...

Argue that!

Imgrate
12-28-2012, 05:27 PM
are u kidding? First off, no one said a word about drafting a gazillion MLBs in rd 1, it takes special kinda talents to get into RD 1 consideration, and when u find one, they make big diffrences.. U don't just take a DE and leave a prized MLB prospect on the board.. Thats silly.. Of course, if theres a DE worthy of taking, and u need a DE horribly, and hes the better prospect then the MLB, u take em.. I'm just saying, don't leave talent on the draft board to go take antoher positon becuase u think its more important.. Thats nuts..I'm still wondering why Greg Hardy a 6th rd pick has double the tackles, and half a sack less then Julius Peppers, the guy he replaced and was given gazillions of dollars? U think the Panthers made a bad move then letting him go? I mean, they fixed the problem with a injury prone 6th rd draft pick, and are getting more production then Peppers is getting.. Its not about the postion, but teh players u draft.. U draft good players at any positon, ur gonna eventually notice a diffrence...Not sure what greg hardy getting drafted in the 6th round has to do with mlbs being less important than other positions. The chances of getting a top flight player in earlier rounds are significantly higher than that of later rounds. Therefore it makes the most sense to invest these picks into positions that will provide your team with the best chance of winning. There are probably 100 players in the league that provide their team with more impact than patrick willis. And none of those players are ilbs. Why would you use a pick on a great player at a position that doesnt really matter? You can have a good defense with terrible linebackers, the same cannot be said of the dl nor secondary.

Imgrate
12-28-2012, 05:31 PM
Luke Keuchly is in prime positon to take home NFL defensive rookie of the yr.. He just won NFL defensive Player of the wk.. I guess someone thinks hes important..Look at the Tackle leaders in the NFL.. Kuechly is 1st, Greenway is 2nd, Bowman is 3rd, Mayo is 4th, Lauranitis is 5th.. What do they all have in common? 3of5 taken in 1st rd, and one taken early 2nd rd, and one taken in 3rd rd.. All are awesome players who would make a world of diffrence on giants..Kuechlys on pace to have the most tackles by a rookie since 1991! THe other NFL Rookies to lead the NFL in Tackles are Demeco Ryans and Patrick Willis, and Zach Thomas.. 2of the 3 won DROY...Sacks FFs interceptions and turnovers stemming from QB hurries end drives and win games. Mlbs do not provide this nearly as much as other positions. Linebackers tackle people, cool.

Imgrate
12-28-2012, 05:32 PM
SInce Luke Kuechlys move to MLB, the Panthers have ranked 4th in Total defense..lol 5th in pass defense and 9th in rush defense...Argue that!Correlation does not mean causation.

nycsportzfan
12-28-2012, 05:34 PM
Not sure what greg hardy getting drafted in the 6th round has to do with mlbs being less important than other positions. The chances of getting a top flight player in earlier rounds are significantly higher than that of later rounds. Therefore it makes the most sense to invest these picks into positions that will provide your team with the best chance of winning. There are probably 100 players in the league that provide their team with more impact than patrick willis. And none of those players are ilbs. Why would you use a pick on a great player at a position that doesnt really matter? You can have a good defense with terrible linebackers, the same cannot be said of the dl nor secondary. Uhh, Greg Hardy has to do with the fact u said "carolinas got a putrid defensive line", without even loooking to see they got the 10th and 13th leading sack men in the league.. Thats what.. it also means, that the highest priced DE in football, who left Carolina via FA'cy is being replaced and getting out produced by a mere former injury prone 6th rd draft pick..

How'd Mario Wiliams do in Buffalo this yr? Could it be he had a better overall defense in Houston, or the makings of one at least? Why isn't buffalos defense so awesome? I mean, they got Mario Wiliams , Marcel Dareus, Mark Anderson all on the same line, right? Could it be they don't have good players around em?

Again, Kuechly is on pace to have more tackles then any other rookie since 1991, and is also probably gonna win the DROY.. Since moving to MLB, Carolina's defense is 4th in the NFL in Total defense.. What can u say to that?

myles2424
12-28-2012, 05:34 PM
It's not ridiculous at all. Look how often they get drafted, look how much they get paid. They are not valued because they aren't nearly as important as other positions.
If theyre as important as other positions is irrelevant, the argument is that theyre somehow not important regardless....
& Ofcourse theyre not draft as often, also take a look around the leauge, majority of the NFL have legit MLB's....Id go as far to say, Giants are in the bottom 5 as far as MLB's go....

nycsportzfan
12-28-2012, 05:38 PM
Correlation does not mean causation. Convient for u, i'd say.. Why do i get teh feeling God himself could tell u MLB's are important, and having good players in general make the diffrence, and u wouldent agree???lol

U didn't even have a clue what was going on in Caolina Defensivley, and ur still trying to debate.. U had no idea that Kuechlys move To MLB has coincided with Carolina being 4th in the NFL in total defense, and that there DE's rank 10th and 13th in the NFL in sacks, with the leader being a former 6th rd draft pick that replaced Julius Peppers and is doing better then Peppers in every category...

Imgrate
12-28-2012, 05:44 PM
Uhh, Greg Hardy has to do with the fact u said "carolinas got a putrid defensive line", without even loooking to see they got the 10th and 13th leading sack men in the league.. Thats what.. it also means, that the highest priced DE in football, who left Carolina via FA'cy is being replaced and getting out produced by a mere former injury prone 6th rd draft pick.. How'd Mario Wiliams do in Buffalo this yr? Could it be he had a better overall defense in Houston, or the makings of one at least? Why isn't buffalos defense so awesome? I mean, they got Mario Wiliams , Marcel Dareus, Mark Anderson all on the same line, right? Could it be they don't have good players around em? Again, Kuechly is on pace to have more tackles then any other rookie since 1991, and is also probably gonna win the DROY.. Since moving to MLB, Carolina's defense is 4th in the NFL in Total defense.. What can u say to that?Mario Williams production got replaced by jj watt, among others. I don't understand what peppers declining with age has to do with anything. At all. Buffalo sucks because buffalo sucks. I don't watch them, don't know how well any of them are playing. But if all those guys you llisted on their team are playing bad then its obvious why. Just because theyre big names doesnt mean they can't play like ****. Look at osi and tuck. Winning droy doesnt provide any evidence of positional value. All in all you really aren't saying anything about how mlbs are far less impactful on any given game when compared to other positions. The only thing that you've pointed out is that the panther dl isn't as terrible as I led on.

myles2424
12-28-2012, 05:44 PM
Convient for u, i'd say.. Why do i get teh feeling God himself could tell u MLB's are important, and having good players in general make the diffrence, and u wouldent agree???lol

U didn't even have a clue what was going on in Caolina Defensivley, and ur still trying to debate.. U had no idea that Kuechlys move To MLB has coincided with Carolina being 4th in the NFL in total defense, and that there DE's rank 10th and 13th in the NFL in sacks, with the leader being a former 6th rd draft pick that replaced Julius Peppers and is doing better then Peppers in every category...
Someone shouldve told the bears/ravens that Lewis/Urlacher were actually useless to their D & that they couldve got by with Blackburn these past years instead.......Or let 49er fans know that Willis/Bowman dont real make a difference...

Imgrate
12-28-2012, 05:47 PM
Convient for u, i'd say.. Why do i get teh feeling God himself could tell u MLB's are important, and having good players in general make the diffrence, and u wouldent agree???lol U didn't even have a clue what was going on in Caolina Defensivley, and ur still trying to debate.. U had no idea that Kuechlys move To MLB has coincided with Carolina being 4th in the NFL in total defense, and that there DE's rank 10th and 13th in the NFL in sacks, with the leader being a former 6th rd draft pick that replaced Julius Peppers and is doing better then Peppers in every category...The replacement of peppers has literally nothing to do with anything being said. I don't need god to tell me anything, I will let the FOs of every team in the nfl speak for me. What positions get paid the most? Why do they get paid more than mlbs?

Imgrate
12-28-2012, 05:49 PM
Someone shouldve told the bears/ravens that Lewis/Urlacher were actually useless to their D & that they couldve got by with Blackburn these past years instead.......Or let 49er fans know that Willis/Bowman dont real make a difference...The niners were terrible with willis until they got a pass rush and cover guys. Pass rushers will always be much more valuable than mlbs.

myles2424
12-28-2012, 05:51 PM
The replacement of peppers has literally nothing to do with anything being said. I don't need god to tell me anything, I will let the FOs of every team in the nfl speak for me. What positions get paid the most? Why do they get paid more than mlbs?
You cant argue that MLBs arent important without bringing up other positions? So someone like Kuechly's 150+ tackles dont mean anything? He's 50/60+ tackles ahead of any of out LBs, thats like having a 12th man on the field.....And these Lb's arent giving up the big plays over the middle & making life harder on our secondary like ours do...

Imgrate
12-28-2012, 05:55 PM
You cant argue that MLBs arent important without bringing up other positions? So someone like Kuechly's 150+ tackles dont mean anything? He's 50/60+ tackles ahead of any of out LBs, thats like having a 12th man on the field.....And these Lb's arent giving up the big plays over the middle & making life harder on our secondary like ours do...Importance is relative term in relation to other positions. My argument is that a first round pick on a mlb will always be the wrong decision in the long run because of the overall impact they have on the game when compared to other positions.

nycsportzfan
12-28-2012, 05:58 PM
You cant argue that MLBs arent important without bringing up other positions? So someone like Kuechly's 150+ tackles dont mean anything? He's 50/60+ tackles ahead of any of out LBs, thats like having a 12th man on the field.....And these Lb's arent giving up the big plays over the middle & making life harder on our secondary like ours do... The thing i don't get is the proof is in the fact that CAROLINA's Defense is ranked 4th in total defense since Kuechly has moved to MLB as a starter.. And then add in all his numbers which inclued a Defensive player of the week winner, and the fact hes got the most double digit tackle games outta anyone in the NFL, and someone imgrate says that it dosen't mean hes the reason why? I mean, what else is it? He said himself the secodnary is trash, and he also said the dline is trash.. Well, what else is there???lol

myles2424
12-28-2012, 05:59 PM
Importance is relative term in relation to other positions. My argument is that a first round pick on a mlb will always be the wrong decision in the long run because of the overall impact they have on the game when compared to other positions.
Are they as impactful as DE,Cbs? obviously not....But when your MLBs have been crappy as ours have been, spending a high pick on one seems necessary....You obviously dont grab one ahead of a Elite passrusher or potential shutdown CB.....But when you look at blackburn,dillard,G.jones,Goff, then yes MLB is very important....Going from junk to atleast a decent MLB would make a big difference on this D.....

nycsportzfan
12-28-2012, 06:02 PM
Someone shouldve told the bears/ravens that Lewis/Urlacher were actually useless to their D & that they couldve got by with Blackburn these past years instead.......Or let 49er fans know that Willis/Bowman dont real make a difference... well said..lol I'll also add that Sean Weatherspoon means nothing to the revitilized Falcons defense as well..lol

nycsportzfan
12-28-2012, 06:04 PM
Are they as impactful as DE,Cbs? obviously not....But when your MLBs have been crappy as ours have been, spending a high pick on one seems necessary....You obviously dont grab one ahead of a Elite passrusher or potential shutdown CB.....But when you look at blackburn,dillard,G.jones,Goff, then yes MLB is very important....Going from junk to atleast a decent MLB would make a big difference on this D..... The way i look at it, is if tehres a player whos better then a DE or CB, then u take em.. I mean, u don't take a CB or DE when u have a better looking playmaker at MLB starting u in the face... U know?

myles2424
12-28-2012, 06:07 PM
The way i look at it, is if tehres a player whos better then a DE or CB, then u take em.. I mean, u don't take a CB or DE when u have a better looking playmaker at MLB starting u in the face... U know?
Theres not the most important players on D & having a Pat willis isnt mandatory to have a great D,but when your LBs are below average, then you upgrade....As long as theyre one of the 11 men on the field & are a weakness,then you take care of the problem.....1st,round,2nd,Fa, Whatever it is, these guys arent worthy....Cant expect UDFAs,late round picks & other teams trash to put together a good corps..

Imgrate
12-28-2012, 06:09 PM
Are they as impactful as DE,Cbs? obviously not....But when your MLBs have been crappy as ours have been, spending a high pick on one seems necessary....You obviously dont grab one ahead of a Elite passrusher or potential shutdown CB.....But when you look at blackburn,dillard,G.jones,Goff, then yes MLB is very important....Going from junk to atleast a decent MLB would make a big difference on this D.....Other than jpp and linval, we have no young talent on the dl. I'm not saying take a 3rd round rated player in the first, but if there's a first round rated de dt cb then you take him, regardless of the linebackers on the board, because even if he isn't as good of a player he will still impact the game more.

Imgrate
12-28-2012, 06:11 PM
The way i look at it, is if tehres a player whos better then a DE or CB, then u take em.. I mean, u don't take a CB or DE when u have a better looking playmaker at MLB starting u in the face... U know?Completely disagree. A good corner/de/dt helps you more than a great mlb. FOs around the league agree with me.

myles2424
12-28-2012, 06:18 PM
Other than jpp and linval, we have no young talent on the dl. I'm not saying take a 3rd round rated player in the first, but if there's a first round rated de dt cb then you take him, regardless of the linebackers on the board, because even if he isn't as good of a player he will still impact the game more.

I think we'd all agree that we need youth at DE & a playmaker interior...but anyone that thinks we dont need to consider upgrades at LB because theyrent important needs watch tape of LBs that other teams have & compare to ours...

WiIdcat
12-28-2012, 07:01 PM
hey imgrate

Luke Kuechly in his rookie year is already 10x better than Blackburn and he has been in the league for 7 years. PFF has Kuechly as the #5 overall ILB in the league this year. Blackburn? #46 lol he is so bad.

There is no such thing as a higher position of importance, especially on defense. Good players make plays at any position on the defense. JJ Watt is about to break the sack record as an interior lineman, Aldon Smith is about to break the sack record in his second year on the outside, Ray Lewis is a member of the 40 sack/30 int club, Derrel Revis can shut down anyone, and Ed Reed has been a turnover machine at Safety... Notice the pattern here? Every position can have a huge impact on the game.

Te'o has the play-making ability and leadership qualities to be the next Ray Lewis. In the last 2 seasons he has 235 tackles, 6.5 sacks, 7 interceptions, 13 PDs, and a FF. PLAYMAKER.

nycsportzfan
12-28-2012, 07:27 PM
Completely disagree. A good corner/de/dt helps you more than a great mlb. FOs around the league agree with me. They do ey??lol I guess when Manti Te'o goes ahead of Ez Ansah, Okafor, and probably a few other touted DE's, and the fact Kuechly went top 10, and Willis went when he did, and so on and so fourth, will still make u right, ey?

Bottom line, u said that Carolina going from dreadful on Defense when Kuechly wasen't starting at MLB, to 4th Ranked in Total Defense with him at MLB, dosen't mean its Kuechly whos the reason. But in teh same thread, u trash Carolinas Secondary and Dline..lol Well done, my friend..

nycsportzfan
12-28-2012, 07:31 PM
hey imgrate

Luke Kuechly in his rookie year is already 10x better than Blackburn and he has been in the league for 7 years. PFF has Kuechly as the #5 overall ILB in the league this year. Blackburn? #46 lol he is so bad.

There is no such thing as a higher position of importance, especially on defense. Good players make plays at any position on the defense. JJ Watt is about to break the sack record as an interior lineman, Aldon Smith is about to break the sack record in his second year on the outside, Ray Lewis is a member of the 40 sack/30 int club, Derrel Revis can shut down anyone, and Ed Reed has been a turnover machine at Safety... Notice the pattern here? Every position can have a huge impact on the game.

Te'o has the play-making ability and leadership qualities to be the next Ray Lewis. In the last 2 seasons he has 235 tackles, 6.5 sacks, 7 interceptions, 13 PDs, and a FF. PLAYMAKER. Bingo! U start reaching for players due to u thinking its more important positon, u end up without a job... U see a Vernon Davis, Patrick Willis, Mike Iupati, Anthony Davis( TE, MLB, G, RT) and u draft them, all being positons of so called "non importance" by some, and what do u know, ur on ur way to the postseason yet again, and ur one of the best ALL AROUND young teams in the NFL...

Buddy333
12-28-2012, 10:31 PM
Anyway, the Giants are not getting him.

thegiantsrule10
12-29-2012, 12:27 AM
You can bash the panthers secondary, but you cant bash their defensive line and linebacker core.

TheEnigma
12-29-2012, 12:45 AM
Anyway, the Giants are not getting him.

Yup pretty much. I think a darkhorse possibility for him would be to the Lions. They lack leadership on the defensive side of the ball and he could be the guy to get that team in shape. I just can't see him getting past the 10th unless a serious injury issue is discovered and he has some HORRIBLE 40 time lol.

Rat_bastich
12-29-2012, 03:08 AM
Yup pretty much. I think a darkhorse possibility for him would be to the Lions. They lack leadership on the defensive side of the ball and he could be the guy to get that team in shape. I just can't see him getting past the 10th unless a serious injury issue is discovered and he has some HORRIBLE 40 time lol.

I know the guy is good but I keep getting this gut feeling he'll have workout numbers equal to Burflict(minus character issues). I don't know why but I just get that feeling.

The issue though comes down to if he is still there and someone like Ansah is sitting there. I still say you have to go Ansah, just because the 4-3 we run requires ends getting to the quarterback. As soft as our middle has been, end is still a priority.

nycsportzfan
12-29-2012, 06:31 AM
I know the guy is good but I keep getting this gut feeling he'll have workout numbers equal to Burflict(minus character issues). I don't know why but I just get that feeling.

The issue though comes down to if he is still there and someone like Ansah is sitting there. I still say you have to go Ansah, just because the 4-3 we run requires ends getting to the quarterback. As soft as our middle has been, end is still a priority. It comes down to what u think of the players on the board when u pick.. If u think a Eric Fisher is better then a Ez Ansah, u take fisher.. If u think a Ogletree is better then Ansah, u take ogletree..etc U simply don't take a player becuase u think its more important positon.. When a team has mega needs, it don't make sense to prioritize like that, becuse its not gonna make the diffrence right now anyway, and u could end with a better END down the rd, and not have the same talent to choose from at T or MLB... I see it happen all the time to the crappy teams in the league..

nycsportzfan
12-29-2012, 06:33 AM
Yup pretty much. I think a darkhorse possibility for him would be to the Lions. They lack leadership on the defensive side of the ball and he could be the guy to get that team in shape. I just can't see him getting past the 10th unless a serious injury issue is discovered and he has some HORRIBLE 40 time lol. Hes not getting by the 10th pick anymore then Luke Kuechly was last yr.. 90pct of this board would of passed on Kuechly if they were GM of the panthers, because of his positon, and the guys on his way to winning the DROY, and has since moving to MLB, helped propel Carolina into 4th in the NFL in total defense...

Buddy333
12-29-2012, 03:52 PM
Don't care what he does at the combine, he has proven to be a very good player throughout his college career.

Imgrate
12-29-2012, 07:19 PM
They do ey??lol I guess when Manti Te'o goes ahead of Ez Ansah, Okafor, and probably a few other touted DE's, and the fact Kuechly went top 10, and Willis went when he did, and so on and so fourth, will still make u right, ey?Bottom line, u said that Carolina going from dreadful on Defense when Kuechly wasen't starting at MLB, to 4th Ranked in Total Defense with him at MLB, dosen't mean its Kuechly whos the reason. But in teh same thread, u trash Carolinas Secondary and Dline..lol Well done, my friend..Look how much a good corner like brandon carr gets paid then look at willis contract. GMs agree with me.

WiIdcat
12-29-2012, 09:23 PM
Look how much a good corner like brandon carr gets paid then look at willis contract. GMs agree with me.


Patrick Willis' signing bonus was 3.5 million dollars more than Carrs lol you're an idiot. Also, you can't compare a contract of 2012 to one made in 2010. There's this thing called inflation and the fact that every year players get paid more than the last.

nycsportzfan
12-29-2012, 11:10 PM
Don't care what he does at the combine, he has proven to be a very good player throughout his college career. Coulden't agree more.. I don't care what he runs, what he lifts, what anything.. The guys a beast, end of story..

nycsportzfan
12-29-2012, 11:11 PM
Patrick Willis' signing bonus was 3.5 million dollars more than Carrs lol you're an idiot. Also, you can't compare a contract of 2012 to one made in 2010. There's this thing called inflation and the fact that every year players get paid more than the last. I know,. rigth? Whats up with his "GM's will agree with me", and then hes dead wrong with what hes saying GM's will agree with him about??lol He did that twice in this thread.. Good dude, but a bit outta it in this thread...

Imgrate
12-30-2012, 03:55 AM
. Jon beason got the "biggest" contract in '11. 25 mill guaranteed. Carr got 26.5 guaranteed.

Edit note: Willis did get 29 guaranteed

Imgrate
12-30-2012, 04:03 AM
I know,. rigth? Whats up with his "GM's will agree with me", and then hes dead wrong with what hes saying GM's will agree with him about??lol He did that twice in this thread.. Good dude, but a bit outta it in this thread...No gm in the league values a mlb over any non lber position on defense.

Redeyejedi
12-30-2012, 09:17 AM
hey imgrate

Luke Kuechly in his rookie year is already 10x better than Blackburn and he has been in the league for 7 years. PFF has Kuechly as the #5 overall ILB in the league this year. Blackburn? #46 lol he is so bad.

There is no such thing as a higher position of importance, especially on defense. Good players make plays at any position on the defense. JJ Watt is about to break the sack record as an interior lineman, Aldon Smith is about to break the sack record in his second year on the outside, Ray Lewis is a member of the 40 sack/30 int club, Derrel Revis can shut down anyone, and Ed Reed has been a turnover machine at Safety... Notice the pattern here? Every position can have a huge impact on the game.

Te'o has the play-making ability and leadership qualities to be the next Ray Lewis. In the last 2 seasons he has 235 tackles, 6.5 sacks, 7 interceptions, 13 PDs, and a FF. PLAYMAKER.I disagree there is absolutely a positional hierarchy. Almost every team in the NFL will take an elite pass rusher over an Elite anything else

GOBLUE24
12-30-2012, 09:40 AM
It simple Giants are not getting him. But the biggest piece to the Giants puzzle is getting a MLB. MLB is a NECESSITY to having a good defense. He allows the dline to not be double teamed as much due to lineman trying to get to second level to stop him. He makes them make weak blocks to ensure they get to him. Sets up defenses. I truly believe a defense has to be sound thru the middle. Dt MLB and safety this has been Philly major prob. Giants in super bowl had chase playing out of a**. Giants need a face at MLB because the core has been underachieving. Williams I like but needs to stay healthy. Thought rivers was solid when healthy. The last two weeks showed pay singer and Herzlich missed tackles and slow.

WiIdcat
12-30-2012, 02:00 PM
. Jon beason got the "biggest" contract in '11. 25 mill guaranteed. Carr got 26.5 guaranteed.

Edit note: Willis did get 29 guaranteed

So you admit you're wrong?...

nycsportzfan
12-30-2012, 10:15 PM
I disagree there is absolutely a positional hierarchy. Almost every team in the NFL will take an elite pass rusher over an Elite anything else Its funny how many of the elite DE's in this league have gone where they have though, ey? JPP middle of RD 1.. Jared Allen drafted in RD 4, John Abraham Pick 13 of RD 1, OSI Rd 2, and Tuck RD 3, Vanden BOesch RD 2, Michael Johnson RD 2, Chris Clemons Undrafted, Greg Hardy 6th rd, Cliff Avril 3rd rd, JJ Watt outside top 10, Micahel Bennett Undrafted, Cameron Wake Undrafted, Charles Johnson RD 3, Paul Kruger RD 2..etc

Those are all guys littering the top 20-23 or so in SACK LEADERS and just overall big sack careers... Theres a couple players taken in top 10 who either are doing real well this yr or have had good careers, like Mario Williams, and Demarcus Ware, but for the most part, these guys have been taken outside of RD 1, middle of RD 1, outside top 10..etc

What is so important isn't something u have to reach for.. Michael Strahan was taken in RD 2 as well.. U can find these guys at any point, just like any positon.. U shoulden't reach for guys becuase u think its so called "MORE IMPORTANT" then other positons.. Dwight Freeney went outta top 10 as wel...


My whole point is don't skip over what seems to be a better prospect at another positon just becuase u think its a more important posiotn.. All positons can be found with alittle good scouting in other rounds.. TAKE THE BETTER PROSPECTS! Obviously i added a few good pass rushers outside of DE's..

Of course, there is Von Miller as well, who was a top 10pick...

myles2424
12-30-2012, 10:44 PM
I keep hearing about ansah, anyone got any word on Margus Hunt & when you think he'll come off the board???

slipknottin
12-31-2012, 09:01 AM
I keep hearing about ansah, anyone got any word on Margus Hunt & when you think he'll come off the board???

Not really, physically hes a top 10 pick. He is going to blow up the combine.

But hes a crap football player outside of bowl games and special teams.

How do you value that. Do you think you can coach him up and get him to be more consistent? Is there some flaw in his game normally?

Ill be honest I have not watched him that much, only a couple games.

Redeyejedi
12-31-2012, 12:53 PM
Not really, physically hes a top 10 pick. He is going to blow up the combine.

But hes a crap football player outside of bowl games and special teams.

How do you value that. Do you think you can coach him up and get him to be more consistent? Is there some flaw in his game normally?

Ill be honest I have not watched him that much, only a couple games.
I dont have much of him I have the TCU game that I havent looked at yet. I dont have this years A&M game wish I did, have last years he got dominated although he blocked 2 kicks

Giantslb66
12-31-2012, 02:34 PM
SInce Luke Kuechlys move to MLB, the Panthers have ranked 4th in Total defense..lol 5th in pass defense and 9th in rush defense...

Argue that!Amen brother!! A great MLB is the heart of a great defense!

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-01-2013, 06:07 PM
Not really, physically hes a top 10 pick. He is going to blow up the combine.

But hes a crap football player outside of bowl games and special teams.

How do you value that. Do you think you can coach him up and get him to be more consistent? Is there some flaw in his game normally?

Ill be honest I have not watched him that much, only a couple games.

dont even know if he is physically a top ten pick,,,his combine will be average,,nothing special,,his value is as a defensive leader,,,If he did not play for ND I am not sure if many of us would even know about him. what I do know is that we have a realistic shot at him at 19,,,the only team with a pressing LB need ahead of us is the steelers,,,that is unless the raiders pull a fast one....my guess is he goes at 17.

slipknottin
01-01-2013, 06:08 PM
dont even know if he is physically a top ten pick,,,his combine will be average,,nothing special,,his value is as a defensive leader,,,If he did not play for ND I am not sure if many of us would even know about him. what I do know is that we have a realistic shot at him at 19,,,the only team with a pressing LB need ahead of us is the steelers,,,that is unless the raiders pull a fast one....my guess is he goes at 17.

I wasent talking about Teo, I was talking about Margus Hunt

juice33s
01-01-2013, 07:05 PM
Correlation does not mean causation.
Just fgured out who Imgrate is...It's lawl, the same moron who said he'd take amobi Okoye over Patrick Willis lol

Imgrate
01-01-2013, 07:34 PM
Just fgured out who Imgrate is...It's lawl, the same moron who said he'd take amobi Okoye over Patrick Willis lolThat's the guy!

juice33s
01-01-2013, 08:18 PM
That's the guy!
Nice welcome back, it might be time for some new material though