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View Full Version : Killdrive lovers part 150 where are you ?



sheepdip
12-26-2012, 12:21 PM
Thought so. I hate being right but he needs to be replaced. Giants playmakers arent taking 10 yard plays for 80 yard tds anymore and the league has easily shut our offense down and Killdrive has no clue how to fix the problem. He has only been coaching for how many years???? He needs guys on offense to bail him out like Cruz did all last year or nicks did in the playoffs. This team couldnt go 80 yards down the field methodically as the offense is built for hope and pray plays down the field. I am beyond frustrated with this offense and the lack of being able to make a simple play or get a couple of first downs. Why is the browns offense better then ours ? KC's offense is probably better then ours. Players or System ???.
Its funny Baltimore and Atlanta seemed to have an idea on offense what they will run and to attack certain players or when to call plays vs our blitzes or whatever. Do you ever get the sense we have a single plan on offense to attack other teams ?? It is almost like we have no plan.... Judging by the body of work our offense cant even get a first down. Do you ever see Brady or Brees or whoever have that much difficulty ? win or loose it doesnt matter the fact that we are incapable of making a first down is scarry. We had what 180 yards most of them garbage yards and 1 play that got us 43 yards which was a hope and pray throw up in the air ?? seriously that is alarming. Ravens defense isnt the same ravens defense of old but of course we made them look like the 85 bears.

I think we need to get rid of the OC bigtime and get some new idea and get rid of this down field passing cr ap. Its not working. Dallas I think exposed us on this and provided the blue print on how to stop our offense.

Buddy333
12-26-2012, 12:27 PM
Those are stats from a game. What about the stats of where the offense has ranked with him as the OC?

M00KIE
12-26-2012, 12:27 PM
I dunno man. In a way I completely agree, I'd like to see a change at OC regardless. But I have a hard time using ATL and Ravens as the examples. Nobody has beat either of them at home this year. They are good teams. It's not like the Raiders whooped us. But the general idea of a change, I think it's time.

Cloud57
12-26-2012, 12:28 PM
I dunno man. In a way I completely agree, I'd like to see a change at OC regardless. But I have a hard time using ATL and Ravens as the examples. Nobody has beat either of them at home this year. They are good teams. It's not like the Raiders whooped us. But the general idea of a change, I think it's time.The Steelers and Broncos beat the Ravens at home this year.

M00KIE
12-26-2012, 12:30 PM
The Steelers and Broncos beat the Ravens at home this year.

You're right, my mistake.

sheepdip
12-26-2012, 12:37 PM
I dunno man. In a way I completely agree, I'd like to see a change at OC regardless. But I have a hard time using ATL and Ravens as the examples. Nobody has beat either of them at home this year. They are good teams. It's not like the Raiders whooped us. But the general idea of a change, I think it's time.

What about Redzone issues which has cost us some games not to mention has been an issue for a few years ?

I am not just talking about scoring tons of points. What about some consistency on offense some type of identity or being able to get a first down. I dont care who we are playing. We seem to struggle to get a first down. Its that challenging for us right now. Yet other teams in the league on offense whether they win or loose seem to have some direction on offense. Please tell me I am not alone on this one ??

Just because we won the SB doesnt mean we have to say with the same group forever. ? Some times you take your gains and move on. Its a business.

I personally would get rid of the entire coaching staff. TC won us 2 SB thats great but he also has brought in Killdrive and Fewel and if he stays they probably stay so if that is the case good bye to all of them. Its time to move on.

Our offense seems like its a step behind all the defenses out there and we are kind of dated on offense and stubborn to boot.

I know it seems harsh and people might think I am being ungrateful but maybe its time to try something else. I havent even started on my thoughts about the defense. yikes.

giantsfan420
12-26-2012, 12:48 PM
1 thing I despise about him is when she starts a game he doesn't script the opening 2 drives. He uses the opening drive to run vanilla plays to get an idea of what to defense is going to be doing. From there he decides the best way to attack. I I hate that because we always trail early and have to come back.

jomo
12-26-2012, 12:51 PM
..........quick, second and 9, what's the playcall?

Marvelousmik
12-26-2012, 12:56 PM
..........quick, second and 9, what's the playcall?

shotgun draw

Mercury
12-26-2012, 01:31 PM
The offense was putrid this year, however, I defend KG. We have often been a top 10 offense with him as our OC, and he's a big part of why we won 2 SBs. I think our problems are execution of the plays that are called. I'd start with the Oline. It's been patched for too many years. They need a real infusion of talent this off-season. Add in the injuries to key players such as: Locklear, Bradshaw, Snee, and Nicks, and you have an offense that can't execute the play called, whatever the play is. No need to stack the box, because we can't run. Double Cruz, and no one else can be relied on to convert a third down. Those are the real issues with the offense, not KG.

Hooligans
12-26-2012, 01:33 PM
Thought so. I hate being right but he needs to be replaced. Giants playmakers arent taking 10 yard plays for 80 yard tds anymore and the league has easily shut our offense down and Killdrive has no clue how to fix the problem. He has only been coaching for how many years???? He needs guys on offense to bail him out like Cruz did all last year or nicks did in the playoffs. This team couldnt go 80 yards down the field methodically as the offense is built for hope and pray plays down the field. I am beyond frustrated with this offense and the lack of being able to make a simple play or get a couple of first downs. Why is the browns offense better then ours ? KC's offense is probably better then ours. Players or System ???.
Its funny Baltimore and Atlanta seemed to have an idea on offense what they will run and to attack certain players or when to call plays vs our blitzes or whatever. Do you ever get the sense we have a single plan on offense to attack other teams ?? It is almost like we have no plan.... Judging by the body of work our offense cant even get a first down. Do you ever see Brady or Brees or whoever have that much difficulty ? win or loose it doesnt matter the fact that we are incapable of making a first down is scarry. We had what 180 yards most of them garbage yards and 1 play that got us 43 yards which was a hope and pray throw up in the air ?? seriously that is alarming. Ravens defense isnt the same ravens defense of old but of course we made them look like the 85 bears.

I think we need to get rid of the OC bigtime and get some new idea and get rid of this down field passing cr ap. Its not working. Dallas I think exposed us on this and provided the blue print on how to stop our offense.

Don't know about Kilbride but his quarterback has played like crap, his offensive line has done nothing and looked more like Spanish Matadors, than NFL linemen, and the WRs, when not hurt, were dropping the ball. As for the running game, his lead RB has been listed as Questionable to play for 2 1/2 years now, with broken feet and ankles.........and you blame Gilbride for the offense playing worse than the Jets?!?! How could Gilbride call the right play with garbage on the filed?

GMENAGAIN
12-26-2012, 01:33 PM
Thought so. I hate being right but he needs to be replaced. Giants playmakers arent taking 10 yard plays for 80 yard tds anymore and the league has easily shut our offense down and Killdrive has no clue how to fix the problem. He has only been coaching for how many years???? He needs guys on offense to bail him out like Cruz did all last year or nicks did in the playoffs. This team couldnt go 80 yards down the field methodically as the offense is built for hope and pray plays down the field. I am beyond frustrated with this offense and the lack of being able to make a simple play or get a couple of first downs. Why is the browns offense better then ours ? KC's offense is probably better then ours. Players or System ???.
Its funny Baltimore and Atlanta seemed to have an idea on offense what they will run and to attack certain players or when to call plays vs our blitzes or whatever. Do you ever get the sense we have a single plan on offense to attack other teams ?? It is almost like we have no plan.... Judging by the body of work our offense cant even get a first down. Do you ever see Brady or Brees or whoever have that much difficulty ? win or loose it doesnt matter the fact that we are incapable of making a first down is scarry. We had what 180 yards most of them garbage yards and 1 play that got us 43 yards which was a hope and pray throw up in the air ?? seriously that is alarming. Ravens defense isnt the same ravens defense of old but of course we made them look like the 85 bears.

I think we need to get rid of the OC bigtime and get some new idea and get rid of this down field passing cr ap. Its not working. Dallas I think exposed us on this and provided the blue print on how to stop our offense.

You haven't been right about a single thing that you have ever posted on these boards and your perfect record remains intact.

Hooligans
12-26-2012, 01:33 PM
1 thing I despise about him is when she starts a game he doesn't script the opening 2 drives. He uses the opening drive to run vanilla plays to get an idea of what to defense is going to be doing. From there he decides the best way to attack. I I hate that because we always trail early and have to come back.
Why should he script th eopening drives moron...what does that do?

CGYgiant
12-26-2012, 01:40 PM
Thought so. I hate being right but he needs to be replaced. Giants playmakers arent taking 10 yard plays for 80 yard tds anymore and the league has easily shut our offense down and Killdrive has no clue how to fix the problem. He has only been coaching for how many years???? He needs guys on offense to bail him out like Cruz did all last year or nicks did in the playoffs. This team couldnt go 80 yards down the field methodically as the offense is built for hope and pray plays down the field. I am beyond frustrated with this offense and the lack of being able to make a simple play or get a couple of first downs. Why is the browns offense better then ours ? KC's offense is probably better then ours. Players or System ???.
Its funny Baltimore and Atlanta seemed to have an idea on offense what they will run and to attack certain players or when to call plays vs our blitzes or whatever. Do you ever get the sense we have a single plan on offense to attack other teams ?? It is almost like we have no plan.... Judging by the body of work our offense cant even get a first down. Do you ever see Brady or Brees or whoever have that much difficulty ? win or loose it doesnt matter the fact that we are incapable of making a first down is scarry. We had what 180 yards most of them garbage yards and 1 play that got us 43 yards which was a hope and pray throw up in the air ?? seriously that is alarming. Ravens defense isnt the same ravens defense of old but of course we made them look like the 85 bears.

I think we need to get rid of the OC bigtime and get some new idea and get rid of this down field passing cr ap. Its not working. Dallas I think exposed us on this and provided the blue print on how to stop our offense.

The best part of people like you is going to be when Eli still throwing interceptions like he ALWAYS has to the other team when we do get a new coordinator. That and making boneheaded decisions on the norm.

Will that be the next offensive coordinators fault too? probably. I mean after all. Its not like Eli never checks into a half-back draw when he see's two safeties in the middle of the field. Thats ridiculous. Its all Gilbride, duh. However, if the play works its definitely because of l Eli. Makes sense.

Paradroid
12-26-2012, 01:54 PM
The offense was putrid this year, however, I defend KG. We have often been a top 10 offense with him as our OC, and he's a big part of why we won 2 SBs. I think our problems are execution of the plays that are called. I'd start with the Oline. It's been patched for too many years. They need a real infusion of talent this off-season. Add in the injuries to key players such as: Locklear, Bradshaw, Snee, and Nicks, and you have an offense that can't execute the play called, whatever the play is. No need to stack the box, because we can't run. Double Cruz, and no one else can be relied on to convert a third down. Those are the real issues with the offense, not KG.

That's the problem with KG. He's not creative. He doesn't make adjustments. Look at Green Bay this year. They suffered injuries to Cedric Benson, Jordy Nelson, and Greg Jennings, and that's just off the top of my head. Yet they're 11-4 and on their way to the playoffs. Obviously they have an advantage at quarterback, but that's good coaching, too. Adjusting. Not having the same game plan whether or not your best receivers are hurt.

Defending KG by saying, "he's great when everyone is healthy and executing perfectly!" is a pretty lame defense.

And the playcalling was flat out incompetent at times. The 4th down calls against Atlanta were atrocious.

Mercury
12-26-2012, 02:22 PM
That's the problem with KG. He's not creative. He doesn't make adjustments. Look at Green Bay this year. They suffered injuries to Cedric Benson, Jordy Nelson, and Greg Jennings, and that's just off the top of my head. Yet they're 11-4 and on their way to the playoffs. Obviously they have an advantage at quarterback, but that's good coaching, too. Adjusting. Not having the same game plan whether or not your best receivers are hurt.

Defending KG by saying, "he's great when everyone is healthy and executing perfectly!" is a pretty lame defense.

And the playcalling was flat out incompetent at times. The 4th down calls against Atlanta were atrocious.

KG offers more upside than downside. Saying "he's not creative and doesn't make adjustments, when the players aren't executing," is a pretty weak attack. Can't you see that we do not have a running game that is a threat? The Oline gets no push. There is nothing to draw the safety in, he knows he needs to stay deep, because the LBers will take care of the run. With Nicks injured, who do you think the Giants have established as a threat aside from Cruz? They double Cruz and everyone else can't beat single coverage consistently. The players need to step up and win those one on one battles.

You asked where are the KG supporters. I reply, "here I am." I still support him. If you don't agree with this, that's fine. We can agree to disagree.

giantsfan420
12-26-2012, 02:27 PM
Why should he script th eopening drives moron...what does that do?pls, we all know ur the moron and ur post easily is an example.

Gb, ne, atl, dallas, NO etc etc script their opening two drives, 20 plays. Now i know one must know football to know that, which explains why u dont. Nothing more needed to say to u...except, its quite obvious ur a troll. Calling me a moron bc of that post? Are u upset that u been called out and tagged?
I wonder how pathetic a life must be to be like that smh

And what it does is score points early. The reason we receive whenever we win the toss imo is bc tc knows this. If we defer, tc realizes the d could conceded two scores before kg gets going. Btw this is by kgs own admission that he uses the first couple series to get an idea of what the d is doing before he formukates his plan of attack

OX1
12-26-2012, 02:28 PM
KG offers more upside than downside. Saying "he's not creative and doesn't make adjustments, when the players aren't executing," is a pretty weak attack. Can't you see that we do not have a running game that is a threat? The Oline gets no push. There is nothing to draw the safety in, he knows he needs to stay deep, because the LBers will take care of the run. With Nicks injured, who do you think the Giants have established as a threat aside from Cruz? They double Cruz and everyone else can't beat single coverage consistently. The players need to step up and win those one on one battles.

You asked where are the KG supporters. I reply, "here I am." I still support him. If you don't agree with this, that's fine. We can agree to disagree.

So your saying killdrive is helpless? There is not ONE thing he can do to help with scheme or playcalling
when he knows his players are hurt/old/not talented, etc......?

Mercury
12-26-2012, 03:18 PM
So your saying killdrive is helpless? There is not ONE thing he can do to help with scheme or playcalling
when he knows his players are hurt/old/not talented, etc......?

Don't put words in my mouth. You are the one saying he is helpless. You are the one badmouthing him. I'm saying the players aren't making plays. They aren't executing. You blame KG when a play fails. I blame the players for not getting the job done. There are times when I get frustrated with the playcalling too. KG is not perfect. You and I don't see eye to eye on this. However, I'm not posting threads titled, "Where are all the Killdrive haters part 150?" after we win a SB. Yet you chose to call me out when things aren't going well? You are implying I am an idiot for supporting KG, I'm telling you, there is another view point.

Tell me, when it's third and one and we go deep and we score a TD is that good or bad play calling? Because I bet my house when it's third and one and we go deep and it's incomplete, you think KG is an idiot.

CDN_G-FAN
12-26-2012, 04:12 PM
Don't put words in my mouth. You are the one saying he is helpless. You are the one badmouthing him. I'm saying the players aren't making plays. They aren't executing. You blame KG when a play fails. I blame the players for not getting the job done. There are times when I get frustrated with the playcalling too. KG is not perfect. You and I don't see eye to eye on this. However, I'm not posting threads titled, "Where are all the Killdrive haters part 150?" after we win a SB. Yet you chose to call me out when things aren't going well? You are implying I am an idiot for supporting KG, I'm telling you, there is another view point.

Tell me, when it's third and one and we go deep and we score a TD is that good or bad play calling? Because I bet my house when it's third and one and we go deep and it's incomplete, you think KG is an idiot.

great post.

the problem is when you're biased against someone or something, everything you see is completely tainted by it.

which is why when we run up the gut on 3rd and short gilbride gets ripped for being predictable, and when he runs outside or throws the ball on 3rd and short he gets ripped fro being passhappy or overcomplicating the playbook.

point is, either way, when something doesn't go right its because of Gilbride, and when it does go right it's in spite of him.

the guy can't win. Sorry, the guy can't win something other than superbowls.

Imgrate
12-26-2012, 04:17 PM
Absolutely cannot stand the mass amounts of coordinator hate threads but the lack of TC hate threads. If you have a problem with kg or pf then you inherently have a bigger problem with TC. Noone has the balls to say anything about TC, and it's trendy to rag on coordinators. Grow up. TC hired these guys, oversees them, and has fired 3 other coordinators that did a terrible job.

sheepdip
12-26-2012, 04:21 PM
That's the problem with KG. He's not creative. He doesn't make adjustments. Look at Green Bay this year. They suffered injuries to Cedric Benson, Jordy Nelson, and Greg Jennings, and that's just off the top of my head. Yet they're 11-4 and on their way to the playoffs. Obviously they have an advantage at quarterback, but that's good coaching, too. Adjusting. Not having the same game plan whether or not your best receivers are hurt.

Defending KG by saying, "he's great when everyone is healthy and executing perfectly!" is a pretty lame defense.

And the playcalling was flat out incompetent at times. The 4th down calls against Atlanta were atrocious.

wow finally someone gets it.

DandyDon
12-26-2012, 04:29 PM
pls, we all know ur the moron and ur post easily is an example.

Gb, ne, atl, dallas, NO etc etc script their opening two drives, 20 plays. Now i know one must know football to know that, which explains why u dont. Nothing more needed to say to u...except, its quite obvious ur a troll. Calling me a moron bc of that post? Are u upset that u been called out and tagged?
I wonder how pathetic a life must be to be like that smh

And what it does is score points early. The reason we receive whenever we win the toss imo is bc tc knows this. If we defer, tc realizes the d could conceded two scores before kg gets going. Btw this is by kgs own admission that he uses the first couple series to get an idea of what the d is doing before he formukates his plan of attack

I'm confused about this. How can you possibly script your first 2 drives? I mean, I understand if you have an idea or a list of plays you want to use. But a script is...like a movie script, where everything that will happen is set in stone?

What if the script fails the first 2 plays and you are 3rd a 25. Keep with the script that says run off tackle on the 3rd play?

Sorry, but I totally do not understand this :confused:

Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by a sc

sheepdip
12-26-2012, 04:31 PM
Bottom line is we have no identity on offense. have no plan B cant score tds only Fgs. Cannot manage to get first downs consistently. Never know when to run or pass. Sounds like a great offense ?? who is in charge of this offense ?? I wonder who.

If ppl are continuing to support him based on his other successes then they should be able to be honest and say he isnt cutting it now. Works both ways.

Your telling me the reason why our offense was ranked high last year wasnt because of guys like Cruz pulling off miracle catch and runs ? you think we scored all those points by engineering tons of 80 yard drives where Killdrive out smarted the opposition. Guys dont you get it teams took away our deep passing game and we have no answer. Dont blame o line, maybe the oline has to hold blocks too long because we are so focused on 30 yard plays down the field. He hasnt changed his logic or strategy and as a result we are struggling. I wont mention another word on the guy. its a waste of time.

CDN_G-FAN
12-26-2012, 04:43 PM
you can't say it works both ways and then attribute good years to players and bad years poor coaching. we all have our points of view and interpret the facts to suit our own purposes.

point is some people trust coughlin and some don't. coughlin wants gilbride as his OC, and that's all i need to continue to support him.

bashful
12-26-2012, 05:00 PM
..........quick, second and 9, what's the playcall?

A good OC on his play card has 2nd 9 plus 50 - 50 at least the troll has neither so it takes forever to get a play in

Cloud57
12-26-2012, 05:09 PM
Absolutely cannot stand the mass amounts of coordinator hate threads but the lack of TC hate threads. If you have a problem with kg or pf then you inherently have a bigger problem with TC. Noone has the balls to say anything about TC, and it's trendy to rag on coordinators. Grow up. TC hired these guys, oversees them, and has fired 3 other coordinators that did a terrible job.I don't hate TC but the problem with TC is that he lets his coordinators do whatever they want and he trusts that they are doing the right thing even when it doesn't work out. A HC is suppose to step in and say this or that isn't working and that they should try something else. In his presser he doesn't even have answers as to why things aren't going well. A HC is suppose to identify the problems and fix it.

sharick88
12-26-2012, 06:59 PM
Thought so. I hate being right but he needs to be replaced. Giants playmakers arent taking 10 yard plays for 80 yard tds anymore and the league has easily shut our offense down and Killdrive has no clue how to fix the problem. He has only been coaching for how many years???? He needs guys on offense to bail him out like Cruz did all last year or nicks did in the playoffs. This team couldnt go 80 yards down the field methodically as the offense is built for hope and pray plays down the field. I am beyond frustrated with this offense and the lack of being able to make a simple play or get a couple of first downs. Why is the browns offense better then ours ? KC's offense is probably better then ours. Players or System ???.
Its funny Baltimore and Atlanta seemed to have an idea on offense what they will run and to attack certain players or when to call plays vs our blitzes or whatever. Do you ever get the sense we have a single plan on offense to attack other teams ?? It is almost like we have no plan.... Judging by the body of work our offense cant even get a first down. Do you ever see Brady or Brees or whoever have that much difficulty ? win or loose it doesnt matter the fact that we are incapable of making a first down is scarry. We had what 180 yards most of them garbage yards and 1 play that got us 43 yards which was a hope and pray throw up in the air ?? seriously that is alarming. Ravens defense isnt the same ravens defense of old but of course we made them look like the 85 bears.

I think we need to get rid of the OC bigtime and get some new idea and get rid of this down field passing cr ap. Its not working. Dallas I think exposed us on this and provided the blue print on how to stop our offense.

Anyone that loves Gilbride also loves their spouse after they cheated on them endlessly

byron
12-26-2012, 07:08 PM
Anyone that loves Gilbride also loves their spouse after they cheated on them endlessly TC would be lost without KG they concocted this offensive scheme together and I don't think TC likes change at all..... I'd be real surprised if we see any coaching changes

giantsfan420
12-26-2012, 07:15 PM
I'm confused about this. How can you possibly script your first 2 drives? I mean, I understand if you have an idea or a list of plays you want to use. But a script is...like a movie script, where everything that will happen is set in stone?

What if the script fails the first 2 plays and you are 3rd a 25. Keep with the script that says run off tackle on the 3rd play?

Sorry, but I totally do not understand this :confused:

Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by a sc I mean is the offenses coordinator generates a plan for the first 20 or so plays he will follow that like a script. They are able to do this because they understand the opposing defense enough to know how best to attack right off the bat. I'm not making this up. Holmgrem was one of the best I seen at it. The Reason I guess they choose to do this is to ensure they can score early to get a lead or not fall behind. They understand how best to exploit a matchup right off the bat. I know it might not be easy to understand, but I assure you the best offensive coaches are generating their First 20 or so plays and I wish we did more of this. We almost always waste the first few drives so KG can try and figure how to attack. When really, he should've done that the week leading up to the game.

YATittle1962
12-26-2012, 07:35 PM
Why should he script th eopening drives moron...what does that do?

it is very common in the NFL

less common than it was say 10 or 15 years ago.....but still quite common

Bill Walsh was widely known for this ......and sticking to it always

and Gilbride does do this ....but does not always stick to it

a couple articles on the topic

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/02/01/coordinators-hold-power-to-script-opening-plays

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/giants/post/_/id/3108/first-drive-isnt-just-all-about-td-to-gilbride

sc_markt
12-26-2012, 07:50 PM
Thought so. I hate being right but he needs to be replaced. Giants playmakers arent taking 10 yard plays for 80 yard tds anymore and the league has easily shut our offense down and Killdrive has no clue how to fix the problem. He has only been coaching for how many years???? He needs guys on offense to bail him out like Cruz did all last year or nicks did in the playoffs. This team couldnt go 80 yards down the field methodically as the offense is built for hope and pray plays down the field. I am beyond frustrated with this offense and the lack of being able to make a simple play or get a couple of first downs. Why is the browns offense better then ours ? KC's offense is probably better then ours. Players or System ???.
Its funny Baltimore and Atlanta seemed to have an idea on offense what they will run and to attack certain players or when to call plays vs our blitzes or whatever. Do you ever get the sense we have a single plan on offense to attack other teams ?? It is almost like we have no plan.... Judging by the body of work our offense cant even get a first down. Do you ever see Brady or Brees or whoever have that much difficulty ? win or loose it doesnt matter the fact that we are incapable of making a first down is scarry. We had what 180 yards most of them garbage yards and 1 play that got us 43 yards which was a hope and pray throw up in the air ?? seriously that is alarming. Ravens defense isnt the same ravens defense of old but of course we made them look like the 85 bears.

I think we need to get rid of the OC bigtime and get some new idea and get rid of this down field passing cr ap. Its not working. Dallas I think exposed us on this and provided the blue print on how to stop our offense.

We got two superbowls under him. I'm fine with him. I would like to see him use the run, run, and then pass a little less...

OX1
12-26-2012, 11:33 PM
Don't put words in my mouth. You are the one saying he is helpless. You are the one badmouthing him. I'm saying the players aren't making plays. They aren't executing. You blame KG when a play fails. I blame the players for not getting the job done. There are times when I get frustrated with the playcalling too. KG is not perfect. You and I don't see eye to eye on this. However, I'm not posting threads titled, "Where are all the Killdrive haters part 150?" after we win a SB. Yet you chose to call me out when things aren't going well? You are implying I am an idiot for supporting KG, I'm telling you, there is another view point.

Tell me, when it's third and one and we go deep and we score a TD is that good or bad play calling? Because I bet my house when it's third and one and we go deep and it's incomplete, you think KG is an idiot.

I asked 2 legitimate questions that have not been answered in detail by anyone that I recall.
(BTW, it is pretty difficult to "puts words in someone's mouth" by asking a question)

I am not beyond completely changing my opinion if presented with all the facts.

gmen0820
12-26-2012, 11:53 PM
It's not about loving him, it's about realizing that the system puts so much responsibility on the players. Sometimes, this is called for. Sometimes, it isn't.

Example: when you have a 100% healthy Hakeem Nicks, and he's practicing every day with Eli, and their timing is more effective than a clock -- yeah, put it all on Eli. But when Nicks isn't healthy, and isn't practicing, and he isn't dominating corners, don't dial up calls that require timing -- such as a back-shoulder throw, or endzone fade route. Those plays are lethal when the duo is clicking, but it's frustrating when it isn't.

But there are aspects of Gilbride's coaching that I defend which depicts me as a Gilbride "lover" (which believe me, I'm not, I watch games in frustration like the rest of you).

Example: 3rd and 20, shotgun draw. People think that is the worst possible call, but strategically, it's the right call and it's frequently made in the NFL. Converting a 3rd and 20 is such a long shot, that the additional yards (especially with an astounding punter) is the best move to make in that situation rather than risking an interception, sack-strip, WR deflection in congested zones, etc. There's also the possibility you catch your opponent off guard and convert it. Is it a good call on 3rd and 8? Only when it works, but mostly not. Nonetheless, people seem to think that a play like that alone is firing-worthy -- it's not!

The shotgun draw on 3rd and 1 is predictable, but that means nothing. If any defense gears up to stop it, Eli will just burn them over the top. The predictability means absolutely nothing, and the fact that they spread the field only displays a lack in confidence with the OL. We can't line up, hat on a hat, and just overpower a team for one yard, we need to get them in a nickel defense and hopefully create a crease for the back to get through.

giantsfan420
12-27-2012, 12:17 AM
it is very common in the NFL

less common than it was say 10 or 15 years ago.....but still quite common

Bill Walsh was widely known for this ......and sticking to it always

and Gilbride does do this ....but does not always stick to it

a couple articles on the topic

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/02/01/coordinators-hold-power-to-script-opening-plays

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/giants/post/_/id/3108/first-drive-isnt-just-all-about-td-to-gilbridei didn't think kg ever did it. I remember reading of kg and Eli discussing how kg will take the first series or two to see what the defenses will be doing and that he will call vanilla plays. I think it's part of the reason why Asante Samuel has three first pass attempt of the game ints on Eli. I will say this, on the rare occasion we score on our opening drive, it did seem like the tempo was quicker and seemed more effective than usual like he really did script it but I don't know for sure bc I have only read of state he doesn't script the first couple drives. And I hate that bc we almost never score on our first drive. It's why IMO TC receives if he can bc he understands the offense needs a series or two before things get going and if w defer and concede an opening score,wed be in danger of falling behind by two or more scores early.

ChrisChris
12-27-2012, 12:22 AM
KILLDRIVE NEEDS TO GO NOW!
TIRED OF HIM MESSIN UP MY TEAM MAN. MIGHT BE A JETS FAN IF HE KEEP THIS UP.

gmen46
12-27-2012, 01:23 AM
KILLDRIVE NEEDS TO GO NOW!
TIRED OF HIM MESSIN UP MY TEAM MAN. MIGHT BE A JETS FAN IF HE KEEP THIS UP.

Nobody's stopping you. In fact, I insist. Go be a (perennially miserable, oxygen-wasting) Jets fan.

YATittle1962
12-27-2012, 01:27 AM
i didn't think kg ever did it. I remember reading of kg and Eli discussing how kg will take the first series or two to see what the defenses will be doing and that he will call vanilla plays. I think it's part of the reason why Asante Samuel has three first pass attempt of the game ints on Eli. I will say this, on the rare occasion we score on our opening drive, it did seem like the tempo was quicker and seemed more effective than usual like he really did script it but I don't know for sure bc I have only read of state he doesn't script the first couple drives. And I hate that bc we almost never score on our first drive. It's why IMO TC receives if he can bc he understands the offense needs a series or two before things get going and if w defer and concede an opening score,wed be in danger of falling behind by two or more scores early.

you obviously didn't read the articles I just posted

and yes Gilbride has always done it

gmen0820
12-27-2012, 01:27 AM
Nobody's stopping you. In fact, I insist. Go be a (perennially miserable, oxygen-wasting) Jets fan.You just couldn't help yourself...

joemorrisforprez
12-27-2012, 01:58 AM
I'm praying that some team takes Gilbride off our hands, and the past 2 games are a big reason why.

People say "Gilbride can't catch the ball, make the block, etc., etc.".......and I agree, sometimes, these players make Gilbride look bad.

But then again, the reverse is true......there have been many occasions when Eli will throw up a gorgeous deep ball that Nicks and Cruz pull down for a huge gain.

In Super Bowl 42 and 46, it came down to Eli running a superb 2 minute drill to win both games.

Last weekend was a perfect example of why I think a change is needed. The Giants finally seemed to have a heartbeart after Wilson ripped off a sweet TD run. The score at the time was 14-7.

So, what do the Giants do?.......instead of going back to the well, and playing the hot hand, they stick Wilson back on the bench to cool off, and turn back to Bradhshaw, who was clearly not healthy enough to contribute. Bradshaw's blocking v. the Falcons was worse than anything I saw this entire season from Wilson.

I really think I've seen everything I'm going to see from Gilbride. I don't expect his approach to change....I don't expect to see any game-time adjustments, or new plays.

Games fall into one of several categories:

1) Eli is on, and makes Gilbride look like a genius.....and I'll admit, Gilbride's scheme works great when Eli is playing lights-out.
2) Eli struggles, and Gilbride does nothing to bail him out.

I can't remember the last play-action, the last reverse, the last flea-flicker, the last time they went no-huddle to trap an opponent's defense in an unfavorable personnel package.

Gilbride has spent too many seasons placing all his eggs in Eli's basket.

Buto
12-27-2012, 02:24 AM
..........quick, second and 9, what's the playcall?

Bubble screen!

EliDaMANning
12-27-2012, 08:40 AM
you obviously didn't read the articles I just posted

and yes Gilbride has always done itMakes a lot of sense now that we're always down by double digits in the first quarter.

sheepdip
12-27-2012, 09:31 AM
I'm praying that some team takes Gilbride off our hands, and the past 2 games are a big reason why.

People say "Gilbride can't catch the ball, make the block, etc., etc.".......and I agree, sometimes, these players make Gilbride look bad.

But then again, the reverse is true......there have been many occasions when Eli will throw up a gorgeous deep ball that Nicks and Cruz pull down for a huge gain.

In Super Bowl 42 and 46, it came down to Eli running a superb 2 minute drill to win both games.

Last weekend was a perfect example of why I think a change is needed. The Giants finally seemed to have a heartbeart after Wilson ripped off a sweet TD run. The score at the time was 14-7.

So, what do the Giants do?.......instead of going back to the well, and playing the hot hand, they stick Wilson back on the bench to cool off, and turn back to Bradhshaw, who was clearly not healthy enough to contribute. Bradshaw's blocking v. the Falcons was worse than anything I saw this entire season from Wilson.

I really think I've seen everything I'm going to see from Gilbride. I don't expect his approach to change....I don't expect to see any game-time adjustments, or new plays.

Games fall into one of several categories:

1) Eli is on, and makes Gilbride look like a genius.....and I'll admit, Gilbride's scheme works great when Eli is playing lights-out.
2) Eli struggles, and Gilbride does nothing to bail him out.

I can't remember the last play-action, the last reverse, the last flea-flicker, the last time they went no-huddle to trap an opponent's defense in an unfavorable personnel package.

Gilbride has spent too many seasons placing all his eggs in Eli's basket.

Thank you for knowing whats up its a real relief that some people here get it.

sheepdip
12-27-2012, 09:32 AM
What happens when teams take away our deep passing game ?? you are witnessing it now and we are awful on offense. Want another year of the same offense. ?

ChrisChris
12-27-2012, 09:34 AM
KILLDRIVE SHOOD BE ASHAMED OF HIMSELF MAN.

YATittle1962
12-27-2012, 10:08 AM
Makes a lot of sense now that we're always down by double digits in the first quarter.

how so ?

every team in the league for the past 40 years or so has scripted the first 15

it has proven to be a very strategic way to get a feel for how defenses will react to certain formations

but somehow when Gilbride does it ...it's no good?

...if anything it proves that this offense couldn't execute a death row inmate

DandyDon
12-27-2012, 10:30 AM
it is very common in the NFL

less common than it was say 10 or 15 years ago.....but still quite common

Bill Walsh was widely known for this ......and sticking to it always

and Gilbride does do this ....but does not always stick to it

a couple articles on the topic

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/02/01/coordinators-hold-power-to-script-opening-plays

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/giants/post/_/id/3108/first-drive-isnt-just-all-about-td-to-gilbride

Interesting articles, thanks. It sounds like they do it just as much to see how the D reacts to certain formations or movement as to score. Also, it indicates that 3rd down is not part of the script (which resolves the situation I posted earlier).

Mercury
12-27-2012, 10:37 AM
So, all those who want KG fired, who do you have in mind as his replacement? What makes them better/more qualified than a man who consistently runs a top ten offense and has won 2 SBs?

What "creative" play do you want to see on 3rd and 1? The Flea-flicker?

JJC7301
12-27-2012, 11:00 AM
Thought so. I hate being right but he needs to be replaced. Giants playmakers arent taking 10 yard plays for 80 yard tds anymore and the league has easily shut our offense down and Killdrive has no clue how to fix the problem. He has only been coaching for how many years???? He needs guys on offense to bail him out like Cruz did all last year or nicks did in the playoffs. This team couldnt go 80 yards down the field methodically as the offense is built for hope and pray plays down the field. I am beyond frustrated with this offense and the lack of being able to make a simple play or get a couple of first downs. Why is the browns offense better then ours ? KC's offense is probably better then ours. Players or System ???.
Its funny Baltimore and Atlanta seemed to have an idea on offense what they will run and to attack certain players or when to call plays vs our blitzes or whatever. Do you ever get the sense we have a single plan on offense to attack other teams ?? It is almost like we have no plan.... Judging by the body of work our offense cant even get a first down. Do you ever see Brady or Brees or whoever have that much difficulty ? win or loose it doesnt matter the fact that we are incapable of making a first down is scarry. We had what 180 yards most of them garbage yards and 1 play that got us 43 yards which was a hope and pray throw up in the air ?? seriously that is alarming. Ravens defense isnt the same ravens defense of old but of course we made them look like the 85 bears.

I think we need to get rid of the OC bigtime and get some new idea and get rid of this down field passing cr ap. Its not working. Dallas I think exposed us on this and provided the blue print on how to stop our offense.
I've been a KG supporter, and still am. It's not KG's fault that Eli hasn't had a good year, that Nicks has been playing injured and that Cruz hasn't been the same since that blast he took against the Bengals. Not KG's fault that our talent on the o-line is very mediocre. Not his fault that AB is constantly playing on bad feet. The Giants have had some of the highest scoring offenses since he's been our OC, and we've won 2 SB's with him.

BigBlue wins
12-27-2012, 11:33 AM
I've been a KG supporter, and still am. It's not KG's fault that Eli hasn't had a good year, that Nicks has been playing injured and that Cruz hasn't been the same since that blast he took against the Bengals. Not KG's fault that our talent on the o-line is very mediocre. Not his fault that AB is constantly playing on bad feet. The Giants have had some of the highest scoring offenses since he's been our OC, and we've won 2 SB's with him.

No, but its KG's fault for calling as many shotgun draws as he does. If it doesn't work, stop using it!

JJC7301
12-27-2012, 11:43 AM
No, but its KG's fault for calling as many shotgun draws as he does. If it doesn't work, stop using it!
He's not perfect, but I'll take him.

OX1
12-27-2012, 04:29 PM
The shotgun draw on 3rd and 1 is predictable, but that means nothing. If any defense gears up to stop it, Eli will just burn them over the top. The predictability means absolutely nothing, and the fact that they spread the field only displays a lack in confidence with the OL. We can't line up, hat on a hat, and just overpower a team for one yard, we need to get them in a nickel defense and hopefully create a crease for the back to get through.

Multiple times this year our pass rush has been burned by an efficient short passing game.
I can't believe Eli can not be as good at this, as anyone in the league if it was incorporated
into the playbook early in the season (or better yet the off season).

I realize gilbride could not have known that Nicks would be injured all season
(although he has been out a lot, so he could have guessed), which took away a huge
part of his scheme. But I for the life of me can not believe he did not know his O-line
was going to be barely adequate and that is was one (maybe 2) injury away from horrible.

I keep asking, but no one answers as to what GB did to try an alleviate that situation??
It seemed to me the plan was

1. Max protect with only TE/RB's that can not block.
2. Play one and a half top tier receivers and multiple unknowns @ 3rd (cept Hix, who did very well).
3. Never pass to RB's unless already under complete pass rush duress.

What I don't get is if you have multiple injuries and the scheme is not working.
Why not take huge chances on something else and see what happens.

I'm not going to argue that many of the players underperfromed, but the
number of them can not be fixed by next year. Are GB supporters telling me
this organization is going to do everything exactly the same as this year,
hoping to god that the players can execute next year. No backup plan
just in case? If that's so, it's just ridiculous. No successful business
would ever run with that plan, especially when that plan has already failed them.

JayMas9
12-27-2012, 05:46 PM
I am not a crazy Gilbride hater, he's been a good OC. However the stretches this season where our offense has had a basic inability score TD's in the redzone, not be able to compete in shootouts, and the last two weeks not do anything at all...should all have KG looking in the mirror. Regardless of whether it's more of an execution problem, gameplan, or scheme problem, it's his job as the OC to take a long look at it this offseason and fix it. An offense that has this much talent, and this qb, should not be failing to compete in shootouts or have the output they've had the last two weeks. It's mind-boggling.

ELI_Iz_God
12-28-2012, 02:35 AM
lot of people must of missed the article on the coordinators seeking answers.....15 games into the season and the OC/DC are just now figuring out that there is a problem. With Bubba Gump "PF" and Killdrive leading the way..it's a wonder we got 2 rings off these circus freaks(Granted Pf was only with one but I consider him to be Sheridan 2.0 and the only thing differentr is his skin complexion). TC is just here to yell at the sideline and throw challenge flags.

It's gonna be a long time before us giants fans know what it's like to consistantly have 13-3. 12-4, 11-5 seasons but I will tell you this....you'll never see it happen with this freak show leading the charge...and the sad thing is...Eli's talent clock is ticking down....TICK TOCK TICK TOCK

If PF and KG staying on this teams only holdup is TC wants them to stay...then he needs to go too. I love TC but if that's the scenario....then he's part of the problem..not the solution.

Furthermore...I don't know where Reese stands in all this...apparently he only worries about the draft and then blindly trusts everything else will work itself out...way to go buddy...way to see it through! I guess making the tough business decisions (Either your productive or your dead weight) is not on your agenda...it's not that hard, you just simply tell that person he no longer has a job anymore...in this economy it's a pretty common thing now-a-days. Don't mind us fans we're just a meaningless part of the equation.


//signed//
A meaningless fan apparently

gfanblue
12-28-2012, 08:26 PM
The offense was putrid this year, however, I defend KG. We have often been a top 10 offense with him as our OC, and he's a big part of why we won 2 SBs. I think our problems are execution of the plays that are called. I'd start with the Oline. It's been patched for too many years. They need a real infusion of talent this off-season. Add in the injuries to key players such as: Locklear, Bradshaw, Snee, and Nicks, and you have an offense that can't execute the play called, whatever the play is. No need to stack the box, because we can't run. Double Cruz, and no one else can be relied on to convert a third down. Those are the real issues with the offense, not KG.my problem is the lack of adjustment. If you can't pass protect, call more timed three step drops and BANG get the ball out. 5 yards at a time adds up......