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View Full Version : I really hope JR takes care of Nicks and Cruz this offseason



gmen0820
12-26-2012, 10:32 PM
This duo is LETHAL. Cruz shouldered most of the load this year by himself, and I think he did enough to suggest he can be a #1 receiver in this league. Nicks, top 10 receiver when healthy. Unfortunately, he misses a couple games every year. I don't think that's enough to not resign this guy. If anything, now is the time to extend that contract, after his first poor year as a Giant.

Buddy333
12-26-2012, 10:35 PM
The only problem is how much do you give Nicks? When healthy he s great. He problem is he has yet to last an entire season without missing some games and he will only get older and and heal slower as injuries mount up.

gmen0820
12-26-2012, 10:37 PM
The only problem is how much do you give Nicks? When healthy he s great. He problem is he has yet to last an entire season without missing some games and he will only get older and and heal slower as injuries mount up.4-6 million per year would be a steal.

Buddy333
12-26-2012, 10:39 PM
How much for Cruz?

gmen0820
12-26-2012, 10:45 PM
How much for Cruz?Don't know if I personally would do a long-term deal with Cruz just yet. I was pleasantly surprised with how Cruz responded to the added weight this year (despite the recent slump), but I wouldn't mind giving him a two year deal at a moderate salary. If I recall, we can slap him with a restricted tag for the next two years, but that's disrespectful to a very classy Giant. 5 mil per year over 2-3 years is much more reasonable than tagging him. Cruz really doesn't have much leverage, though.

gmen0820
12-26-2012, 10:48 PM
The only thing that sucks about this whole predicament is that NY really isn't in position (cap or success wise) to just start handing out bonuses.

Buddy333
12-26-2012, 11:06 PM
Who can they cut without hurting their cap number this year? They may need to take a step back this year to rebuild.

Marvelousmik
12-26-2012, 11:17 PM
i am probably one of the few giant fans who isnt a huge fan of nicks. The way i feel about nicks at the moment is the same way i felt about steve smith when he was here. he is good, but he is a bit overrated. If we can keep him cool. if we cant, it wouldnt really bother me to see him go. Cruz is the real deal.

gmen0820
12-26-2012, 11:21 PM
Who can they cut without hurting their cap number this year? They may need to take a step back this year to rebuild.They don't necessarily have to take a step back. If they cut someone, it's because they are no good. Cutting guys like Boley really isn't "taking a step back", especially if we can draft effectively to replace those guys. Webster, Tuck, Diehl etc. same story. I mean you're not gonna save much off the cap, but nonetheless, you do save some. But that's really if the Giants actually do feel they are done.

Cutting Rolle or Canty on the other hand, that's taking a step back. Rolle's absence would resonate not only on the field -- but in the locker room.

It's gonna come down to making savvy, under-the-radar, moves in free agency, and having a solid draft with at least a couple picks that are able to start day one. Offensively, we have talented players.

Eli: Franchise QB. That's critical, because our margin for error is that much higher.

Cruz/Nicks/Randle/Hixon/Jernigan: That's a lot of proven talent, with a lot of upside as well.

Wilson: He'll be in his second year, so we should see him get more than a carry a game. He's definitely trending upwards.

OL: Okay, area of need. Needs addressing for sure.

Defensively, we are somewhat in the same boat.

DL: JPP is a blue-chip player. He is the cornerstone of our defense, and the type of talent you build a defense around. Canty/Joseph are a very solid tandem, but they NEED depth at the position, because Austin is a bust.

LBers: Williams regressed, but he's still a promising player. This group needs addressing though, because Boley is probably a goner, and Blackburn is really just a stop gap/depth player.

Secondary: KP is a guy who should be brought back with a low risk deal, Rolle is a solid safety and an emotional leader, Stevie looks like a keeper. Amukamara and Hosley are promising players as well.

gmen0820
12-26-2012, 11:25 PM
i am probably one of the few giant fans who isnt a huge fan of nicks. The way i feel about nicks at the moment is the same way i felt about steve smith when he was here. he is good, but he is a bit overrated. If we can keep him cool. if we cant, it wouldnt really bother me to see him go. Cruz is the real deal.I see where you're coming from, but I disagree. I'm a huge Nicks fan. From when he was young, he was just such a savvy player. His route running was excellent, disguised his routes well, and always possessed veteran moves (Bears game on MNF in 2010 really caught my attention).

Only problem I've had with Nicks is that his over-the-shoulder skills really don't impress me. I just feel like he drops a lot of passes when he tries to go over the shoulder.

Anyway, I think if he came at a reasonable price, he'd be one helluva steal for us, just like he was at the end of the first round.

GMENAGAIN
12-26-2012, 11:39 PM
Love Nicks, but the Giants are going to discount their offering price because of the fact that he can't stay healthy . . . . he'll get full price from another team eventually.

Marvelousmik
12-26-2012, 11:56 PM
I see where you're coming from, but I disagree. I'm a huge Nicks fan. From when he was young, he was just such a savvy player. His route running was excellent, disguised his routes well, and always possessed veteran moves (Bears game on MNF in 2010 really caught my attention).

Only problem I've had with Nicks is that his over-the-shoulder skills really don't impress me. I just feel like he drops a lot of passes when he tries to go over the shoulder.

Anyway, I think if he came at a reasonable price, he'd be one helluva steal for us, just like he was at the end of the first round.


http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&conference=null&season=2012&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1
(http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&conference=null&season=2012&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1)
If you take a look at the link above and look through the list, you will see 15 recievers with 1000+ yards on the season, and with 1 more game left you will probably see 5-7 more guys reach 1000+ yards. That does not include how many games some of them may have missed. And most of those guys dont have a top 5 qb throwing them the football.

You also see a pattern. the Majority of the receivers in this league who average 1000 yards a season are guys who have good qbs (top 10) throwing them the football. There are a few exceptions who still put up good numbers regardless and they are the ones that stand out the most to me.

basically my point is, right now with the way the NFL is turning into a passing league with all the new rules which protect the receivers, recevers are starting to become a dime a dozen. As long as you have a good Qb, you will have receivers who produce. This is one of the reasons why i am not buying into the fact the packers truly have all these weapons. I honestly think for the exception of greg jennings ( who is having a down year) those guys are pretty average.

I watch a lot of football and i watch a lot of different teams play. I honestly dont think nicks is that great. he is good dont get me wrong. when healthy i agree he is a top 10 guy. But he is 100% replaceable and i dont think we would have to look hard in the draft to find another young talented guy who would put up similar numbers.

Just keeping it real.

gmen0820
12-26-2012, 11:57 PM
Love Nicks, but the Giants are going to discount their offering price because of the fact that he can't stay healthy . . . . he'll get full price from another team eventually.That's a definite possibility, but I think there's a good chance that the Giants give him his best offer just because we know exactly what we have in Nicks, and what he means to our system.

Other teams might have a problem looking past his extensive injury history, and the fact that he's never put up really dominant numbers. He's never gone over 1200 yards, he isn't exactly a burner, he's had his share of drops, etc.

gmen0820
12-27-2012, 12:07 AM
I watch a lot of football and i watch a lot of different teams play. I honestly dont think nicks is that great. he is good dont get me wrong. when healthy i agree he is a top 10 guy. But he is 100% replaceable and i dont think we would have to look hard in the draft to find another young talented guy who would put up similar numbers. I wouldn't chalk it all up to numbers though, regardless of how convincing they can be. Look no further than the inconsistency of our offense this year, and how it pertains to Nicks. Nicks, not healthy and/or effective all year really shot this team in the foot. The back shoulder throw, that accounted for so many first downs, wasn't there. The deep crossing patterns weren't there with consistency. The redzone fades that weren't effective resulted in Tynes' leg nearly falling off. The inability for him to consistently beat man coverage has magnified our issues on the OL. Nicks means much more to our team than he does elsewhere, and while he is replaceable (who isn't?), it certainly won't be done without some suffering.

We are a far better offense with Hakeem Nicks, and I don't know about you, but I don't feel like drafting a high-upside WR early just to see Hixon play the whole time because [insert rookie's name] zig when he should have zagged.

giantsfan420
12-27-2012, 12:09 AM
This duo is LETHAL. Cruz shouldered most of the load this year by himself, and I think he did enough to suggest he can be a #1 receiver in this league. Nicks, top 10 receiver when healthy. Unfortunately, he misses a couple games every year. I don't think that's enough to not resign this guy. If anything, now is the time to extend that contract, after his first poor year as a Giant.i agree. I think tthis offseason will be our best chance at getting them at a team friendly fair price bc of nicks injured year.

gmen0820
12-27-2012, 12:11 AM
Dominant X-receivers don't grow on trees. Guys like Colston, Hartline, and Welker would struggle mightily if we isolated them vs. a solid corner.

gmen0820
12-27-2012, 12:15 AM
i agree. I think tthis offseason will be our best chance at getting them at a team friendly fair price bc of nicks injured year.Exactly. Almost nothing good can come out of waiting. If we wait on the extension because of injury concerns, and he comes out next year and balls, there is no point in resigning him. In a year, there is nothing Nicks can do to rid himself of all health concerns, so all we'd do is resign (well, try to) him at a much higher price. If he comes out and has another injury-plagued season, then the waiting game worked, but I just can't envision him having a year like this again.

Marvelousmik
12-27-2012, 12:24 AM
I wouldn't chalk it all up to numbers though, regardless of how convincing they can be. Look no further than the inconsistency of our offense this year, and how it pertains to Nicks. Nicks, not healthy and/or effective all year really shot this team in the foot. The back shoulder throw, that accounted for so many first downs, wasn't there. The deep crossing patterns weren't there with consistency. The redzone fades that weren't effective resulted in Tynes' leg nearly falling off. The inability for him to consistently beat man coverage has magnified our issues on the OL. Nicks means much more to our team than he does elsewhere, and while he is replaceable (who isn't?), it certainly won't be done without some suffering.

We are a far better offense with Hakeem Nicks, and I don't know about you, but I don't feel like drafting a high-upside WR early just to see Hixon play the whole time because [insert rookie's name] zig when he should have zagged.



Same way we fell apart when plax got hurt. But he was replaced by nicks later on. When steve smith left, he was replaced by cruz in the slot. If you lose someone during the season and you dont have a backup who can replace them, of course you will struggle. It can happen at any position.

I could make the argument that if we sat nicks and let randel play the 1 role, he would have been more productive than nicks this season. There is no question that the offense right now is better with nicks. But thats because the only other guy capable of being the outside guy is randel. And he is still learning the offense. If we looked for a guy to replace him i feel confident that the next guy would be a huge part of the offense as well. especially with Eli throwing them the ball in this offense.

And i think randel could be that next guy.

ChrisChris
12-27-2012, 12:26 AM
Same way we fell apart when plax got hurt. But he was replaced by nicks later on. When steve smith left, he was replaced by cruz in the slot. If you lose someone during the season and you dont have a backup who can replace them, of course you will struggle. It can happen at any position.

I could make the argument that if we sat nicks and let randel play the 1 role, he would have been more productive than nicks this season. There is no question that the offense right now is better with nicks. But thats because the only other guy capable of being the outside guy is randel. And he is still learning the offense. If we looked for a guy to replace him i feel confident that the next guy would be a huge part of the offense as well. especially with Eli throwing them the ball in this offense.AY MAN DONT BE DISSIN MY MAN NICKS THAT DUDE IS A BEAST MAN.

giantsfan420
12-27-2012, 12:29 AM
I will say this, having randle is a nice security blanket. Only reason I could see the giants wait is to see how randle progresses. Remember how much jr said randle reminds him of nicks? Well maybe he drafted randle with the nicks issue on his mind on top of randles skill set and talent.

gmen0820
12-27-2012, 12:36 AM
Same way we fell apart when plax got hurt. But he was replaced by nicks later on. When steve smith left, he was replaced by cruz in the slot. If you lose someone during the season and you dont have a backup who can replace them, of course you will struggle. It can happen at any position.

I could make the argument that if we sat nicks and let randel play the 1 role, he would have been more productive than nicks this season. There is no question that the offense right now is better with nicks. But thats because the only other guy capable of being the outside guy is randel. And he is still learning the offense. If we looked for a guy to replace him i feel confident that the next guy would be a huge part of the offense as well. especially with Eli throwing them the ball in this offense.Yeah, but it's unreasonable to compare Nicks' situation to Steve Smith's or Plaxico's. Plaxico was resigned to a new deal, because he was so effective for us. He's only gone because he shot himself in the leg and was arrested. Steve Smith, too, was dominate in the role we asked him to play, and the only reason he isn't a Giant anymore is because he had a major knee injury at a very unfortunate time of the 2010 season, after he turned down a contract extension.

If you trust our FO's ability to evaluate talent (like you've demonstrated with Cruz, Nicks, Smith), then you should also support them if they do decide to extend Nicks. Plax and Smith both had the satisfaction of being extended, and being offered an extenstion (respectively). Nicks will certainly be afforded the same luxury, and not because he is easily replaceable.

gmen0820
12-27-2012, 12:41 AM
I will say this, having randle is a nice security blanket. Only reason I could see the giants wait is to see how randle progresses. Remember how much jr said randle reminds him of nicks? Well maybe he drafted randle with the nicks issue on his mind on top of randles skill set and talent.Likely, but can you blame him? I mean look at the last look the Giants got at Nicks before the draft, he was dominating the NFL's elite in the playoffs. I'd be weary of our prospects to resign him (especially with our cap space), as well.

The way our salary cap is formatted, the formula suggests that we plan on surrounding Eli with young, cheap, drafted talent and hope that he and an experienced OC can get the most of them. With that said, resigning Nicks under those circumstances appears to be a longshot. Under these circumstances, 2013 offseason, we might be presented with the rare opportunity of resigning a proven dominate receiver at a reduced rate, to which I say: go for it.

giantsfan420
12-27-2012, 12:45 AM
Likely, but can you blame him? I mean look at the last look the Giants got at Nicks before the draft, he was dominating the NFL's elite in the playoffs. I'd be weary of our prospects to resign him (especially with our cap space), as well.

The way our salary cap is formatted, the formula suggests that we plan on surrounding Eli with young, cheap, drafted talent and hope that he and an experienced OC can get the most of them. With that said, resigning Nicks under those circumstances appears to be a longshot. Under these circumstances, 2013 offseason, we might be presented with the rare opportunity of resigning a proven dominate receiver at a reduced rate, to which I say: go for it.ur a pretty smart dude man agree completely

gmen0820
12-27-2012, 12:47 AM
ur a pretty smart dude man agree completelyHaha, thanks man. Hopefully he can get our boy Bennett resigned, too. We were on his bandwagon in mid-February, if I remember correctly.

Marvelousmik
12-27-2012, 12:48 AM
Yeah, but it's unreasonable to compare Nicks' situation to Steve Smith's or Plaxico's. Plaxico was resigned to a new deal, because he was so effective for us. He's only gone because he shot himself in the leg and was arrested. Steve Smith, too, was dominate in the role we asked him to play, and the only reason he isn't a Giant anymore is because he had a major knee injury at a very unfortunate time of the 2010 season, after he turned down a contract extension.

If you trust our FO's ability to evaluate talent (like you've demonstrated with Cruz, Nicks, Smith), then you should also support them if they do decide to extend Nicks. Plax and Smith both had the satisfaction of being extended, and being offered an extenstion (respectively). Nicks will certainly be afforded the same luxury, and not because he is easily replaceable.

You're missing the point. The fact is, anytime we've tried to replace a productive player in our offense, we have done so. it doesnt matter why they left. what matters is that the next guy has been more productive. Cruz is a better slot receiver than smith, and nicks has been more productive than plax, although i feel that if plax was young and he was still in this system playing with the Eli we know now, he would have been better. because eli has become a better QB than he was when plax was here. But thats a story for another time.

If they want to keep nicks im fine with that. But if they dont it wouldnt worry me. The next guy will step up.

gmen0820
12-27-2012, 12:59 AM
You're missing the point. The fact is, anytime we've tried to replace a productive player in our offense, we have done so. it doesnt matter why they left. what matters is that the next guy has been more productive. Cruz is a better slot receiver than smith, and nicks has been more productive than plax, although i feel that if plax was young and he was still in this system playing with the Eli we know now, he would have been better. because eli has become a better QB than he was when plax was here. But thats a story for another time.

If they want to keep nicks im fine with that. But if they dont it wouldnt worry me. The next guy will step up.I'm not necessarily missing the point, I'm just not fully buying in -- and not because I'm biased towards Nicks. I'm just not willing to take the two cases where we lose two stud receivers and it actually turns out to be a fortunate event for us. That is just wishful thinking. I respect Eli a lot, especially in his proven ability to take unproven players and develop them into NFL stars. With that said, I also have far too much respect for Eli to accept that we can just rid him of any talented players that he develops a rapport with because "he has proven to be able to do it before". That's just terrible management; in bureaucracies it's known as "Parkinson's Law", where exceptional work is awarded... with more work.

Like I mentioned to GF420, if Nicks dominated this year, then -- as ironic as this sounds -- I'd be more willing to move on from him. The cap situation suggests that we give Eli young -- and most importantly, cheap -- talent to develop. But Nicks might be available at a discounted rate, and that should definitely be, at the very least, investigated.

Marvelousmik
12-27-2012, 01:37 AM
Receivers are becoming a dime a dozen now. the league is turning into a passing league. the rules are changing. The next guy will step. thats my 2 cents

gmen0820
12-27-2012, 01:48 AM
Receivers are becoming a dime a dozen now. the league is turning into a passing league. the rules are changing. The next guy will step. thats my 2 centsDominant split-end receivers will always come at a premium, that's my $.02.

NYCDBS
12-27-2012, 02:10 AM
Same way we fell apart when plax got hurt. But he was replaced by nicks later on. When steve smith left, he was replaced by cruz in the slot. If you lose someone during the season and you dont have a backup who can replace them, of course you will struggle. It can happen at any position.

I could make the argument that if we sat nicks and let randel play the 1 role, he would have been more productive than nicks this season. There is no question that the offense right now is better with nicks. But thats because the only other guy capable of being the outside guy is randel. And he is still learning the offense. If we looked for a guy to replace him i feel confident that the next guy would be a huge part of the offense as well. especially with Eli throwing them the ball in this offense.

And i think randel could be that next guy.

I completely agree with your take on using Randle more this season. He has shown flashes of exceptional ability. Its a shame they didnt sit Nicks who was apparently hurt all season.

Buddy333
12-27-2012, 08:02 AM
They don't necessarily have to take a step back. If they cut someone, it's because they are no good. Cutting guys like Boley really isn't "taking a step back", especially if we can draft effectively to replace those guys. Webster, Tuck, Diehl etc. same story. I mean you're not gonna save much off the cap, but nonetheless, you do save some. But that's really if the Giants actually do feel they are done.Cutting Rolle or Canty on the other hand, that's taking a step back. Rolle's absence would resonate not only on the field -- but in the locker room. It's gonna come down to making savvy, under-the-radar, moves in free agency, and having a solid draft with at least a couple picks that are able to start day one. Offensively, we have talented players. Eli: Franchise QB. That's critical, because our margin for error is that much higher. Cruz/Nicks/Randle/Hixon/Jernigan: That's a lot of proven talent, with a lot of upside as well.Wilson: He'll be in his second year, so we should see him get more than a carry a game. He's definitely trending upwards. OL: Okay, area of need. Needs addressing for sure. Defensively, we are somewhat in the same boat.DL: JPP is a blue-chip player. He is the cornerstone of our defense, and the type of talent you build a defense around. Canty/Joseph are a very solid tandem, but they NEED depth at the position, because Austin is a bust.LBers: Williams regressed, but he's still a promising player. This group needs addressing though, because Boley is probably a goner, and Blackburn is really just a stop gap/depth player. Secondary: KP is a guy who should be brought back with a low risk deal, Rolle is a solid safety and an emotional leader, Stevie looks like a keeper. Amukamara and Hosley are promising players as well.Agree about KP but you always have to worry about his health. Not sure what to say about Rolle. He gets paid a lot. Are they really getting what they paid for. Really like Prince and Hosely. Brown is a nice player but he also got caught peeking a lot. One guy you forgot to mention is Hill. That guys the future.

RoanokeFan
12-27-2012, 08:23 AM
The only problem is how much do you give Nicks? When healthy he s great. He problem is he has yet to last an entire season without missing some games and he will only get older and and heal slower as injuries mount up.

He doesn't have to do anything with Nicks this year so he can see how he comes back next season which would be better for Nicks

RoanokeFan
12-27-2012, 08:25 AM
AY MAN DONT BE DISSIN MY MAN NICKS THAT DUDE IS A BEAST MAN.

Interesting alter ego

gumby74
12-27-2012, 09:23 AM
Neither of them are worth a very large contract. I've been saying all along that Cruz is not physical enough a WR and Nicks is injured all the time. 7 million to tops.

nycsportzfan
12-27-2012, 09:48 AM
This duo is LETHAL. Cruz shouldered most of the load this year by himself, and I think he did enough to suggest he can be a #1 receiver in this league. Nicks, top 10 receiver when healthy. Unfortunately, he misses a couple games every year. I don't think that's enough to not resign this guy. If anything, now is the time to extend that contract, after his first poor year as a Giant. Nicks is injured all the time though, how can u give a injury prone player like him that much money when its so easy to find top tier recievers? Even Cruz has been awful for a stretch now, and for all we know, could of been figured out by the league.

I'd tred lightly on ur idea here... Recievers are the easiest positon to find...

nycsportzfan
12-27-2012, 09:57 AM
Neither of them are worth a very large contract. I've been saying all along that Cruz is not physical enough a WR and Nicks is injured all the time. 7 million to tops. When this yr began, i'd of been hard pressed to disagree with the OP of this thread, but now, i don't know.. Another injury plaqued season for Nicks, and Cruz is looking very much like a guy whos just not physical enough to be in that top tier of WR grouping..

I hope they both are worth it, but i just don't know? Also, recievers are easy to find.. Look at TY Hilton, Danario Alexander, Wes Welker, Cecil Shorts, Steve Johnson, Brandon Marshall, Victor Cruz, Miles Austin, Marques Colston, Lance Moore, Desean Jackson, Vincent Jackson, Mike Wallace, Mario Manningham, Danny Amendola, Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Brandon Lloyd...etc

Those are all guys taken in RD 2 right through UDF'cy..

Again, before i might of been sold on giving Nicks nad Cruz big deals, but more i watch, the more i think its a bad idea, and when u look around the league, theres so many wr's who simply do damage becuase there given a chance, that i might shy away from paying both of em...

sportsfan554
12-27-2012, 10:01 AM
well here is my oppinion, and you know what they say about those. Cruz and nicks are valuable to this team. I feel that cruz did not have the numbers this year because of nicks being hurt. With nicks out teams were able to focus on cruz. If both of those receivers are in, teams struggle more with defending them both. I fell that if the giants are looking to make to the superbowl next year and anytime after that at least lock up these two receivers for 2-3 years tops. If after that they are not producing, then cut them loose. But as of right now I wouldnt draft any receivers because the 4 that we have now are very good.

nycsportzfan
12-27-2012, 10:05 AM
[QUOTE=sportsfan554;639738]well here is my oppinion, and you know what they say about those. Cruz and nicks are valuable to this team. I feel that cruz did not have the numbers this year because of nicks being hurt. With nicks out teams were able to focus on cruz. If both of those receivers are in, teams struggle more with defending them both. I fell that if the giants are looking to make to the superbowl next year and anytime after that at least lock up these two receivers for 2-3 years tops. If after that they are not producing, then cut them loose. But as of right now I wouldnt draft any receivers because the 4 that we have now are very good.[/QUOTE Why do so many things gotta happen for them to produce though? I mean, its always a injury to another guy or the oline or something else to as why guys don't produce..

If thats the case, then there certainly not worth the money, becuase its hard enough keeping the said player healthy, let alone all these other things that can make em obselete anyhow..

RoanokeFan
12-27-2012, 10:05 AM
well here is my oppinion, and you know what they say about those. Cruz and nicks are valuable to this team. I feel that cruz did not have the numbers this year because of nicks being hurt. With nicks out teams were able to focus on cruz. If both of those receivers are in, teams struggle more with defending them both. I fell that if the giants are looking to make to the superbowl next year and anytime after that at least lock up these two receivers for 2-3 years tops. If after that they are not producing, then cut them loose. But as of right now I wouldnt draft any receivers because the 4 that we have now are very good.

I agree pretty much with this although I might go for 4 years to give Eli consistency.

Here's are the receivers who are FAs in 2013. The players in red should be released, IMO


Cruz RFA
Hixon UFA
Barden UFA
Bennett UFA
Beckum UFA
Pascoe UFA

Buddy333
12-27-2012, 10:06 AM
When this yr began, i'd of been hard pressed to disagree with the OP of this thread, but now, i don't know.. Another injury plaqued season for Nicks, and Cruz is looking very much like a guy whos just not physical enough to be in that top tier of WR grouping..I hope they both are worth it, but i just don't know? Also, recievers are easy to find.. Look at TY Hilton, Danario Alexander, Wes Welker, Cecil Shorts, Steve Johnson, Brandon Marshall, Victor Cruz, Miles Austin, Marques Colston, Lance Moore, Desean Jackson, Vincent Jackson, Mike Wallace, Mario Manningham, Danny Amendola, Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Brandon Lloyd...etc Those are all guys taken in RD 2 right through UDF'cy.. Again, before i might of been sold on giving Nicks nad Cruz big deals, but more i watch, the more i think its a bad idea, and when u look around the league, theres so many wr's who simply do damage becuase there given a chance, that i might shy away from paying both of em...This could be why they drafted Randle and have mt given up on JJ after just drafting him last year in the 3rd round.

RoanokeFan
12-27-2012, 10:07 AM
This could be why they drafted Randle and have mt given up on JJ after just drafting him last year in the 3rd round.

Why does anyone think they've given up on Jernigan?

Joe Morrison
12-27-2012, 10:13 AM
JR should have learned his lesson last year letting BJ and Manningham go what amount to pennies and has nothing to show for it this year.

Joe Morrison
12-27-2012, 10:14 AM
Why does anyone think they've given up on Jernigan?
Jernigan is another Sincore Moss, must be good playing the other teams offense!

RoanokeFan
12-27-2012, 10:15 AM
Jernigan is another Sincore Moss, must be good playing the other teams offense!

After one season?

sportsfan554
12-27-2012, 10:17 AM
I agree. My thought is if you want to get to the playoffs every year and at least have a chance of winning a superbowl then you need chemistry. If you cut a player or players after a year you will never get any where. If you look at teams like the patriots or even the packers if I am not mistaken alot of those players have been there a long time.

Buddy333
12-27-2012, 10:19 AM
After one season?The worst thing that happened to him is Cruz became a star. Doesn't mean he might not still be a good player.

RoanokeFan
12-27-2012, 10:26 AM
I agree. My thought is if you want to get to the playoffs every year and at least have a chance of winning a superbowl then you need chemistry. If you cut a player or players after a year you will never get any where. If you look at teams like the patriots or even the packers if I am not mistaken alot of those players have been there a long time.

If you need an example, look at the Eagles.

Joe Morrison
12-27-2012, 10:28 AM
After one season?

He has been here at least 2.

RoanokeFan
12-27-2012, 10:31 AM
The worst thing that happened to him is Cruz became a star. Doesn't mean he might not still be a good player.

To equate any one year player with a 4 or 5 year failure is just...whatever

We kept Sinorice Moss, still have Barden and Beckum. We develop players, I don't understand why that's so hard to understand. Jernigan, as you say, is playing behind some established players. He's under a rookie contract and will likely play that out.

RoanokeFan
12-27-2012, 10:33 AM
He has been here at least 2.

OK, still. Barden and Beckum have been here forever, it seems. They are not going to dump Jernigan becuse he can't get ahead of Nicks, Cruz, Hixon and Randle.

gmen0820
12-27-2012, 10:51 AM
Those are all guys taken in RD 2 right through UDF'cy.. And over a span of ten years. Can't expect that to always happen. We've had Barden, Carter, Moss, and *possibly* Jernigan ALL fail on us. It's FAR from easy to replace top tier receivers with other top tier receivers.

gmen0820
12-27-2012, 10:58 AM
I'd tred lightly on ur idea here... Recievers are the easiest positon to find...We have been far from automatic when it comes to drafting receivers. For every Smith, there's a Moss. I think people are forgetting just how valuable an asset Nicks had been for us prior to this year. He just flat out dominated man coverage, and was still effective in double coverage. You're not gonna replace that with Denario Alexander/Mike Wallace/James Jones.

Redeyejedi
12-27-2012, 11:03 AM
The only problem is how much do you give Nicks? When healthy he s great. He problem is he has yet to last an entire season without missing some games and he will only get older and and heal slower as injuries mount up.I think they should roll the dice with Nicks and sign him while his value its at his lowest. I think its worth the risk

JJC7301
12-27-2012, 11:04 AM
I hope he takes care of them as well, but I also hope that the two of them give the Giants a discount for getting to stick together on one of the best coached teams in the NFL with an elite QB. Not that I expect them to or will be mad if they don't because they don't owe anyone anything, but 2 high quality WR's are a lot of money and we're going to have holes to fill this offseason.

Redeyejedi
12-27-2012, 11:07 AM
Nicks is injured all the time though, how can u give a injury prone player like him that much money when its so easy to find top tier recievers? Even Cruz has been awful for a stretch now, and for all we know, could of been figured out by the league.

I'd tred lightly on ur idea here... Recievers are the easiest positon to find... Its not easy to find receivers as good as Nicks. When he is healthy he is Top 10 in the NFL. Not signing Nicks means u have to draft another receiver in the 1st round

Redeyejedi
12-27-2012, 11:10 AM
i am probably one of the few giant fans who isnt a huge fan of nicks. The way i feel about nicks at the moment is the same way i felt about steve smith when he was here. he is good, but he is a bit overrated. If we can keep him cool. if we cant, it wouldnt really bother me to see him go. Cruz is the real deal. Umm did U watch Nicks in the playoffs last year. Steve Smith was NEVER that good. Cruz is not better then Nicks winning on the outside against the teams top corner is much more difficult then playing in the slot against lesser corners like Cruz

Redeyejedi
12-27-2012, 11:12 AM
Dominant X-receivers don't grow on trees. Guys like Colston, Hartline, and Welker would struggle mightily if we isolated them vs. a solid corner. Thank u, some sense

ShakeandBake
12-27-2012, 11:15 AM
I think we would be stupid NOT to resign Nicks, the guy will come cheaper off an injury and as others have said he is a top flight receiver when healthy. We would have to burn another high round pick to replace him, and with all of the holes we have right now, we have to use those picks elsewhere.

Redeyejedi
12-27-2012, 11:16 AM
This could be why they drafted Randle and have mt given up on JJ after just drafting him last year in the 3rd round.Randle was Nicks Insurance.I think if u can get Nicks on a friendly deal this offseason U roll the dice and do it. He may take it because he may figure if he gets hurt he never get a shot at another deal. Try to get him at 4-5 years 20 million

RoanokeFan
12-27-2012, 11:34 AM
I think they should roll the dice with Nicks and sign him while his value its at his lowest. I think its worth the risk

The CAP will have something to do with the timing

RoanokeFan
12-27-2012, 11:35 AM
I think we would be stupid NOT to resign Nicks, the guy will come cheaper off an injury and as others have said he is a top flight receiver when healthy. We would have to burn another high round pick to replace him, and with all of the holes we have right now, we have to use those picks elsewhere.

Nicks would be wiser to put in a great performance next seaon. He doens't have to accept an offer, especially not now

gmen0820
12-27-2012, 11:38 AM
Nicks would be wiser to put in a great performance next seaon. He doens't have to accept an offer, especially not nowYeah, but he'd really be betting the house on next year. His rookie deal makes the 2013 season his last under that agreement, so if he lays another egg, he'll be lucky to get half of the offer the Giants could potentially make this offseason.

BlueReign
12-27-2012, 11:40 AM
Nicks' injuries should give us some relief when trying to sign him.

ShakeandBake
12-27-2012, 11:49 AM
Yeah, but he'd really be betting the house on next year. His rookie deal makes the 2013 season his last under that agreement, so if he lays another egg, he'll be lucky to get half of the offer the Giants could potentially make this offseason.

bingo

Mercury
12-27-2012, 12:24 PM
Honestly, good WRs may be available, but we have other needs in our draft. We really can't spend a high draft pick this year on a WR. And, the odds of us finding another undrafted/late round success story aren't really that good. Nor can we afford to go on a spending spree in FA. We are CAP strapped.

We are fortunate CAP-wise that they both had a comparitively down year this year. (Yeah, it sucked in real life.) We'd have no chance to resign them both, if they had performed like in 2011 for a second year in a row.

Sit Nicks and Cruz down and give them a good talking to. Show them examples, Steve Smith, Mario Manningham, Kevin Boss, and Plaxico. Guys need a good QB to throw them the ball in order for them to be stars. Larry Fitzgerald anyone? Then show them how they need each other. Nicks and Cruz are a great tandem, take away one and the other is going to be double covered. Then show them the CAP numbers, we can't break the bank for them, even though we all love them. Finally, make them offers that are CAP responsible, yet not unrealistic/insulting.

Be prepared for them to not accept. Have a plan B. Have some WRs come in for a tryout. Show Cruz and Nicks that we are preparing for life after they are gone.

RoanokeFan
12-27-2012, 12:29 PM
Yeah, but he'd really be betting the house on next year. His rookie deal makes the 2013 season his last under that agreement, so if he lays another egg, he'll be lucky to get half of the offer the Giants could potentially make this offseason.

True, but I think the CAP plays a bigger part than we might think. You can only lay out so much cash every season. Nicks will take in $4.425 M in 2013, Cruz is getting chump change (through no one's fault). Of the two, RECENTLY Cruz has put up better numbers and isn't saddled with injuries that keep him off the field for weeks at a time.


They need to take of Cruz and, IMO, Hixon, Bennett, and Pascoe this time around. That allows for Randle and Jernigan to continue to develop and hopefully see more offensive snaps in 2013. Hixon, IMO, will continue to be the bridge until Randle or Jernigan best him.

These contracts are never easy or guaranteed in terms of a player's health.