PDA

View Full Version : Just saying....Something's going on



Laurah1275
12-28-2012, 01:04 PM
Defending SB champs....destroying NFL's elites....losing horrendously to others...you just don't plummet like that in less than a year....

Trying to shake it off, trying to pick my battles...but just saying....SOMETHING'S GOING ON!

Jahh
12-28-2012, 01:04 PM
What are you insinuating, Laurah?

Sarcasman
12-28-2012, 01:09 PM
Defending SB champs....destroying NFL's elites....losing horrendously to others...you just don't plummet like that in less than a year....

Trying to shake it off, trying to pick my battles...but just saying....SOMETHING'S GOING ON!

I agree. The team is playing poorly, that's what is going on.

It ain't like this team was a dominating dynasty.

timmytimm3
12-28-2012, 01:11 PM
The team is too old and banged up at key positions. This time last year we were getting healthy.

jomo
12-28-2012, 01:19 PM
Defending SB champs....destroying NFL's elites....losing horrendously to others...you just don't plummet like that in less than a year....

Trying to shake it off, trying to pick my battles...but just saying....SOMETHING'S GOING ON!I can think of 3 things that could result in this type of crazy performance:

1. Injuries large and small which take us out of rhythm at key moments
2. A few bad seeds in the locker room that aren't swatted down by the veterans. In the case of our team this might be a younger player who gets spanked on the field and doesn't have championship fight in their heart, so they roll over.
3. Coaches who fail to make adjustments to what other teams are doing to exploit our weaknesses.

After that, I am at a loss Laurah1275

flashnando
12-28-2012, 01:35 PM
I can think of 3 things that could result in this type of crazy performance:

1. Injuries large and small which take us out of rhythm at key moments
2. A few bad seeds in the locker room that aren't swatted down by the veterans. In the case of our team this might be a younger player who gets spanked on the field and doesn't have championship fight in their heart, so they roll over.
3. Coaches who fail to make adjustments to what other teams are doing to exploit our weaknesses.

After that, I am at a loss Laurah1275

Don't forget one key thing the Giants failed to do this offseason, they let Manningham signed a two-year, $7.5 million deal with San Francisco. Im sorry for the haters but Manningham, love him or hate him, made a huge difference for Eli. He was the perfect steve smith replacement.

Hooligans
12-28-2012, 02:07 PM
Defending SB champs....destroying NFL's elites....losing horrendously to others...you just don't plummet like that in less than a year....

Trying to shake it off, trying to pick my battles...but just saying....SOMETHING'S GOING ON!

Yeah, it's called a major choke-job.

Moke
12-28-2012, 02:07 PM
Laurah, you keep going in the chat rooms... that's what is going on.

JJC7301
12-28-2012, 11:28 PM
Don't forget one key thing the Giants failed to do this offseason, they let Manningham signed a two-year, $7.5 million deal with San Francisco. Im sorry for the haters but Manningham, love him or hate him, made a huge difference for Eli. He was the perfect steve smith replacement.
I don't think that they could have kept him for even that much. I liked MM alot, but I think their problem was using Hixon as their # 3 this year instead of Barden or RR. Or even JJ. Hixon is a #4 at best. As a # 3 MM could have some really significant games while Nicks and Cruz were double-covered or injured. Hixon doesn't have that ability.

DandyDon
12-28-2012, 11:58 PM
Defending SB champs....destroying NFL's elites....losing horrendously to others...you just don't plummet like that in less than a year....

Trying to shake it off, trying to pick my battles...but just saying....SOMETHING'S GOING ON!

I agree....SOMETHING'S GOING ON!

I think aliens have replaced Eli, Tuck, JPP, Osi , Nicks and our entire secondary with their own kind, who natrually suck at football, as their planet has no concept of balls (round or oblong).

Kind of like an X-files thing. You may be skeptical, but it's as good a theory as any I have seen on these boards or in the media. Thats my theory and I'm sticking to it.

rEaS
12-29-2012, 12:10 AM
Hey Dandy, maybe they're doing another 'space jam' type of movie and aliens gathered the powers and skills of eli, tuck, jpp, osi and nicks lol..

TheEnigma
12-29-2012, 12:51 AM
A possibility I've been personally considering is that this year (and many others) is that we are seeing the real Giants for what they are. An above average QB and WR corps with a "decent" Oline and RB group while the defense has it's elite game every once in awhile but shows it's true colors with mediocre performances more than 75% of the time. Is it possible that the Giants just overachieved in 07 and 11 with great performances by decent players while the real truth is that this team is barely a playoff contender most seasons? It doesn't diminish the Superbowl runs we've been on but I'd say a top tier team wouldn't struggle to reach the postseason like we do every year. There is a reason after all that the Giants make a great underdog story.

Rat_bastich
12-29-2012, 12:59 AM
A possibility I've been personally considering is that this year (and many others) is that we are seeing the real Giants for what they are. An above average QB and WR corps with a "decent" Oline and RB group while the defense has it's elite game every once in awhile but shows it's true colors with mediocre performances more than 75% of the time. Is it possible that the Giants just overachieved in 07 and 11 with great performances by decent players while the real truth is that this team is barely a playoff contender most seasons? It doesn't diminish the Superbowl runs we've been on but I'd say a top tier team wouldn't struggle to reach the postseason like we do every year. There is a reason after all that the Giants make a great underdog story.

Interesting idea. I have faith that the 2007 Giants were legit. The 2011 I have sometimes wondered if it wasn't a product of the crap that was going on before the season. Either way the Giants won the Super Bowl, but I understand what you are saying...kind of like the Heats winning the NBA title. This year it seems the league has balanced out.

TheEnigma
12-29-2012, 02:09 AM
Interesting idea. I have faith that the 2007 Giants were legit. The 2011 I have sometimes wondered if it wasn't a product of the crap that was going on before the season. Either way the Giants won the Super Bowl, but I understand what you are saying...kind of like the Heats winning the NBA title. This year it seems the league has balanced out.

Or the LA Kings winning the Stanley Cup last year. Other than 08, the expectations for this team have never really been high. We get some predictions to win it all in the middle of the season (when we are at our peak) but that's quickly pulled away once we have a blunder like the Bengals game or how the Saints spanked us in 11. The general public and "experts" usually don't stay on our bandwagon for long before returning to the likes of the Patriots or Packers.

SweetZombieJesus
12-29-2012, 07:56 AM
Laurah are you a new fan? This team has been schizophrenic during Coughlin's entire time here.

2005 season -- home playoff loss to Panthers 23-0
2008 season -- 1-4 after Plax shooting, lose at home in 1st round of playoffs to Eagles 23-11
2009 season -- with playoffs on the line lose the last ever game at Giants Stadium to Panthers 41-9 (and with every historic Giant imaginable on the sidelines)
2010 season -- up by 24 against Eagles with 7:30 left lose the game and lose the following week's game agains the Packers with playoffs still up for grabs 45-17

SweetZombieJesus
12-29-2012, 08:00 AM
Is it possible that the Giants just overachieved in 07 and 11 with great performances by decent players while the real truth is that this team is barely a playoff contender most seasons?

I choose to see the glass half-full -- they're underachievers who don't live up to their potential most of the time. Like the C student who is really capable of straight As if he applied himself.

They are 6-2 every danged year, and have made the playoffs most of the time (and missed once at 10-6). No losing season since 2004. Too much good to simply be overachievers.

BigBlueOnes
12-29-2012, 08:11 AM
Laurah are you a new fan? This team has been schizophrenic during Coughlin's entire time here.

2005 season -- home playoff loss to Panthers 23-0
2008 season -- 1-4 after Plax shooting, lose at home in 1st round of playoffs to Eagles 23-11
2009 season -- with playoffs on the line lose the last ever game at Giants Stadium to Panthers 41-9 (and with every historic Giant imaginable on the sidelines)
2010 season -- up by 24 against Eagles with 7:30 left lose the game and lose the following week's game agains the Packers with playoffs still up for grabs 45-17


You have this wonderful ability to post the rotten eggs about Coughlin, while never posting the winning seasons and two Super Bowls. Likewise, I could post the crushing wins over the Saints, Packers...etc over the past 7-8 years as well to prove MY point.

I think this problem starts with Perry Fewell's "bend don't break" defense, one that depends (DEPENDS) on turnovers. Then it moves to the O-line which is porous. Third, we don't have a legitimate running game for reason #2 and because of the perpetually broken feet of AB.

So,

1: No defense: we CANNOT keep the other team off the field (Osi, Tuck...you gotta go now...) Perry, great smile, but you suck as a DC.
2: Diehl, you gotta go. Baas? See ya'
3: Whoever thought BJ didn't contribute to our running game is nuts.

We get another back to compliment Wilson (Brown?) and a better O-line along with a scary defense, all other things work out. I actually think we have a good receiving core. If we can run, those receivers suddenly become very good.

SweetZombieJesus
12-29-2012, 08:20 AM
You have this wonderful ability to post the rotten eggs about Coughlin, while never posting the winning seasons and two Super Bowls. Likewise, I could post the crushing wins over the Saints, Packers...etc over the past 7-8 years as well to prove MY point.

That's kind of the WHOLE POINT. We all know about the good but we tend to try to forget about the bad, dismiss it as a bad day, et al. But the truth is there is overwhelming proof that this team self destructs when times are good, or when the stakes are high. You can't just write it off, it's endemic.

Losing is fine. I can deal with losing. I can't deal with gutless no-shows like we've had to endure in the last two weeks, 34-0 and 33-14. Not just losses, but catastrophic, dysfunctional ****-the-bed disasters, and in the most crucial spots too. 41-9 in the last ever game at Giants Stadium with playoffs on the line? Really? Who shows up like that? Who gives up a 24 point lead in under 8 minutes? Really? Who else is in the driver's seat with a 2.5 game division lead and then 3 weeks later faces not even making the playoffs at all? 2010 and 2009 all over again...

This team has a knack for it and it goes back to the beginning. Before the 2012 season, before Perry Fewell... There's a bigger problem many people refuse to see.

And nobody in a position to do anything about it can see it either, nobody has answers. They can't even tell anybody what's wrong let alone how to fix it. They're dumbfounded.

giantsfan420
12-29-2012, 08:20 AM
I don't think that they could have kept him for even that much. I liked MM alot, but I think their problem was using Hixon as their # 3 this year instead of Barden or RR. Or even JJ. Hixon is a #4 at best. As a # 3 MM could have some really significant games while Nicks and Cruz were double-covered or injured. Hixon doesn't have that ability.i agree, kinda. i think hixon could be a viable 3 on another team. its just here, we need the 3 wr to threaten a defense in a way that cant be ignored. for MM, that was his downfield quickness and explosion. Hixon, while he is fast, for whatever reason, hasnt forced defenses to have to account for him. and for whatever reason, eli2hixon hasnt taken over a game yet the way eli2mm did. i dont think its the only reason for the offensive struggles and im not trying to rag on hixon at all. just the wr unit is noticeably different and less threatening. part of that is nicks and his injuries, and the rest is the 3wr issue

Die-Hard
12-29-2012, 08:47 AM
Maybe they just arent as good of a football team as most thought?

They werent that great LAST season, despite the incredible outcome.

Redeyejedi
12-29-2012, 09:01 AM
The team is too old and banged up at key positions. This time last year we were getting healthy.Its that simple really. Tuck and Osi got old and the team is built on the backs of the pass rush. Throw in your best deep safety barely playing all season and constant upheaval at CB your defense will get shredded.
The thing that has really bothered me though is Eli Manning has done nothing to raise the play of this team. I mean Nicks being hurt is a huge blow but he has just been off all season.

nhpgiantsfan
12-29-2012, 09:12 AM
Interesting idea. I have faith that the 2007 Giants were legit. The 2011 I have sometimes wondered if it wasn't a product of the crap that was going on before the season. Either way the Giants won the Super Bowl, but I understand what you are saying...kind of like the Heats winning the NBA title. This year it seems the league has balanced out.

I agree the 2007 team was legit. But last year they over achieved.

This current team has 4 "star" players in my opinion. Eli, Nicks, Cruz, and JPP. Last year they all had huge years. This year, not so much. Cruz had decent yardage stats this year, but it was a very quiet 1000 yards, IMO. Everything else is pretty much the same. Bad Oline, little to no running game, mediocre linebacker play. The two units that really took a turn for the worse is the D line and the secondary( More so the CB's). If you think about it it's actually amazing that they still have a chance to win the same amount of regular season games as last year. Lets not forget we only went 9-7 last year. The big thing that helped us last year was that we played the AFC East and went 4-0 against them. We were 5-7 against the NFC last year.

So in summary we were pretty much the same team last year but got lucky enough to get in at 9-7 and then just clicked.

Redeyejedi
12-29-2012, 09:20 AM
Whats going on is Justin Tuck and Mathias Kiwanuka from 2008-2010 were both in the Top 5 in pass rushing productivity per snap "Tuck 2 , Kiwi 5". Now in 2012 Justin Tuck cant get within 5 feet of a QB

fletch842
12-29-2012, 09:22 AM
Whats going on is Justin Tuck and Mathias Kiwanuka from 2008-2010 were both in the Top 5 in pass rushing productivity per snap "Tuck 2 , Kiwi 5". Now in 2012 Justin Tuck cant get within 5 feet of a QB
I saw him side by side with Eli/Carr. :p

Red Dog
12-29-2012, 09:32 AM
Didn't the Giants sink like a submarine the following year after their first Coughlin SB

bELIeve_in_Giants
12-29-2012, 09:42 AM
Didn't the Giants sink like a submarine the following year after their first Coughlin SB

No, they had a really good year and were 11-1 when Plax shot himself in the leg I believe. It was downhill after that and they didn't show up in their playoff game, but I think they still had home field throughout.

It's not an uncommon phenomenon for a team to struggle the following year after a SB.

NorwoodBlue
12-29-2012, 10:36 AM
It's not really all that puzzling. Coughlin wears people out over the course of a 16 game season. His system works fine in short bursts, which is why the first half of the season usually goes well. Then, the team mentally wears down, and they choke in the second half. That has been the norm for nearly every one of Coughlin's seasons here. We got lucky twice, and he managed to have a good burst from the players at the end of the season, although they basically let their season slip and then saved the season with a short burst of good play. It's funny but the teams seem to tune Coughlin out, and need some external stimulous to play well. The 2007 run was fueled by that Army vet giving them pep talks before every game, and they responded to him. This year the young fellow comes in before the GB games, tells them to play like the Champs they are, and they respond. Last year they bought into the "all In" theme, and it worked. I just think Coughlin is so abrasive that he kills the players will to play.

Roosevelt
12-29-2012, 10:41 AM
When Eli is on and our D-line pressures our opponents QB, we win.

When this doesn't happen, we lose.

JesseJames
12-29-2012, 10:46 AM
I have to believe that there is a lot of common sense in the Giants front office (not the coaching staff) and they see what we see and know that it can't go on like this and the problem is a complete lack of consistency. This team is talented enough to win and the fact that they don't win the games they should win or have to win is on both the coaching staff and the players. What I don't like is that Fewell and Coughlin have told the media recently that its all on the players and that I don't agree with....

Roosevelt
12-29-2012, 10:46 AM
It's not really all that puzzling. Coughlin wears people out over the course of a 16 game season. His system works fine in short bursts, which is why the first half of the season usually goes well. Then, the team mentally wears down, and they choke in the second half. That has been the norm for nearly every one of Coughlin's seasons here. We got lucky twice, and he managed to have a good burst from the players at the end of the season, although they basically let their season slip and then saved the season with a short burst of good play. It's funny but the teams seem to tune Coughlin out, and need some external stimulous to play well. The 2007 run was fueled by that Army vet giving them pep talks before every game, and they responded to him. This year the young fellow comes in before the GB games, tells them to play like the Champs they are, and they respond. Last year they bought into the "all In" theme, and it worked. I just think Coughlin is so abrasive that he kills the players will to play.

If this was the Tom Coughlin of Boston College years, then yes, you may have a point. But I don't think Tom is that same guy.

Just watch a Giants post game speech. These players do not look like they have tuned him out.

Kez Simpson
12-29-2012, 10:52 AM
When Eli is on and our D-line pressures our opponents QB, we win.

When this doesn't happen, we lose.

People have been spoiled with 4th quarter comebacks, they expect that a norm. Now, we know why they are so amazing, because they are very hard to do. Not that we have been in position to do that this year. I think this season we aren't built to come from behind, because our interior D is soft against the run, or rather our D in general can't get off the field.

Buddy333
12-29-2012, 11:18 AM
Its that simple really. Tuck and Osi got old and the team is built on the backs of the pass rush. Throw in your best deep safety barely playing all season and constant upheaval at CB your defense will get shredded. The thing that has really bothered me though is Eli Manning has done nothing to raise the play of this team. I mean Nicks being hurt is a huge blow but he has just been off all season.Agree. Also, they where a 9-7 team last year and got blown of of some games. They are almost identical to last year except Eli has been off. Don't think they are far off though. Staying healthy would help along with a good draft and smart shopping in FA.

Buddy333
12-29-2012, 11:20 AM
People have been spoiled with 4th quarter comebacks, they expect that a norm. Now, we know why they are so amazing, because they are very hard to do. Not that we have been in position to do that this year. I think this season we aren't built to come from behind, because our interior D is soft against the run, or rather our D in general can't get off the field.Those 4th quarter come backs, while great, are troublesome. That's means it could have gone either way and some day your luck will run out. How about having a commanding lead and eat the clock late in the game. Nah, to easy.

Roosevelt
12-29-2012, 11:49 AM
People have been spoiled with 4th quarter comebacks, they expect that a norm. Now, we know why they are so amazing, because they are very hard to do. Not that we have been in position to do that this year. I think this season we aren't built to come from behind, because our interior D is soft against the run, or rather our D in general can't get off the field.

Totally agree.

People came to expect or rely on our offense to pull these games out and that is not a formula for success.

I tend to think that Perry Fewell's idea of defense is to live and die by the turnover. That is not sound as well.

Harooni
12-29-2012, 12:02 PM
This may explain what is going on


http://youtu.be/xKXbTJsnH-s

TroyArcher
12-29-2012, 01:36 PM
Injuries, age and lack of team leadership.

GIANTSED101
12-29-2012, 01:59 PM
I think it's been a mixture of a ton of things. The loss of Manningham and leadership of Jacobs hurt us tremendously. With Nicks being injured all season long the chemistry has been off and Eli has been forcing things again. Defenses have been doubling Cruz, since Cruz is in a contract year he's been a little jittery going over the middle since he's been getting popped a lot this year which adds to the drops and miscommunication. The o line was decent until locklear went down, once Diehl was put back in the starting line up the offensive line fell to pieces. Eli's been running for his life ever since. Let's not forget how good our runnng game was before Andre got hurt. That injury was huge, there's a reason why wilson wasn't getting a lot of snaps. The defense has been shredded by injuries. No depth at DT, DE's getting worn down because they're having to play more DT then they would have to. Webster has been absolutely horrendous which is his fault but also due to the scheme of PF. Starting safety out, our 2 fastest LB's were always out. No depth at CB because we were putting all of our eggs in a basket with the return of TT. Our rookies have contributed as much as we have hoped. Both of our SB runs were won based on the team playing as a whole unit, rookies included. Our lack of depth, injuries, and lack of play by our rookies has all contributed to our down fall (collapse).

Rusty192
12-29-2012, 01:59 PM
The team is too old and banged up at key positions. This time last year we were getting healthy.As much as no one likes to admit, this is a huge reason why.

Rusty192
12-29-2012, 02:04 PM
A possibility I've been personally considering is that this year (and many others) is that we are seeing the real Giants for what they are. An above average QB and WR corps with a "decent" Oline and RB group while the defense has it's elite game every once in awhile but shows it's true colors with mediocre performances more than 75% of the time. Is it possible that the Giants just overachieved in 07 and 11 with great performances by decent players while the real truth is that this team is barely a playoff contender most seasons? It doesn't diminish the Superbowl runs we've been on but I'd say a top tier team wouldn't struggle to reach the postseason like we do every year. There is a reason after all that the Giants make a great underdog story.I disagree. We are capable of beating/crushing any team in the league. That is, when we figure how to get out of our own way.

Rudyy
12-29-2012, 02:05 PM
People have been spoiled with 4th quarter comebacks, they expect that a norm. Now, we know why they are so amazing, because they are very hard to do. Not that we have been in position to do that this year. I think this season we aren't built to come from behind, because our interior D is soft against the run, or rather our D in general can't get off the field.Couldn't have said it any better.

45Jones
12-29-2012, 02:12 PM
The team is too old and banged up at key positions. This time last year we were getting healthy.

This is where I would go with it. Locklear was playing will in the O-line and he's gone. Diehl playing banged up, Snee limping around. Bennett has had a gimpy knee since the early-season hyper extension. Nicks doesn't have the pop, Bradshaw playing with a knee brace, Brown gone after giving some spark to the running game. Multiple injuries on defense.

The past 3 seasons they have had one of the hardest schedules in the NFL. I like the way Paul Dottino put it, "Eventually those Ni-Cad rechargeable batteries that you buy will only take so many rechargings until they only go to 30% and you have to throw them away."

BigBlue1971
12-29-2012, 02:21 PM
Defending SB champs....destroying NFL's elites....losing horrendously to others...you just don't plummet like that in less than a year....

Trying to shake it off, trying to pick my battles...but just saying....SOMETHING'S GOING ON!

1st its tough to repeat as champions.

2nd the Giants were inconsistent beyond our expectations.

3rd its still not too late!

TheEnigma
12-29-2012, 04:17 PM
I disagree. We are capable of beating/crushing any team in the league. That is, when we figure how to get out of our own way.

But more often than not, we're barely past posting a .500 record. The Vikings crushed the 49ers and Texans this year but would you really call that being a top tier team or just every dog having it's day? You could argue the same with our victories over the Pack and 49ers. In the big picture, there is no negative aspect of being an overachiever in sports because it's much sweeter as a fan when the expectations were never there. Unlike most Super Bowl champs who get a decent bandwagon movement for the title in the preseason, the 07 and 11 Giants weren't even mentioned in the playoff hunt.

gmen46
12-29-2012, 04:31 PM
I agree....SOMETHING'S GOING ON!

I think aliens have replaced Eli, Tuck, JPP, Osi , Nicks and our entire secondary with their own kind, who natrually suck at football, as their planet has no concept of balls (round or oblong).

Kind of like an X-files thing. You may be skeptical, but it's as good a theory as any I have seen on these boards or in the media. Thats my theory and I'm sticking to it.

I agree.

Your theory is not any more crazy--or less feasible--than most of the other "expert" ideas thrown around here the past month (like Eli's "rubber arm", the need to "clean house", the team is "too old", the team has "young bad seeds in the locker room"--sheesh)

FlyingTruck
12-29-2012, 04:44 PM
Don't forget one key thing the Giants failed to do this offseason, they let Manningham signed a two-year, $7.5 million deal with San Francisco. Im sorry for the haters but Manningham, love him or hate him, made a huge difference for Eli. He was the perfect steve smith replacement.How's he doing in San Fran? MM wasn't that big of a deal, and we'll have his replacement in Randle next year. He wasn't worth the money he wanted.

JesseJames
12-29-2012, 05:09 PM
Defending SB champs....destroying NFL's elites....losing horrendously to others...you just don't plummet like that in less than a year....

Trying to shake it off, trying to pick my battles...but just saying....SOMETHING'S GOING ON!

I see you're from Jersey City, what part, I was born and raised in Greenville....

Rusty192
12-29-2012, 05:50 PM
But more often than not, we're barely past posting a .500 record. The Vikings crushed the 49ers and Texans this year but would you really call that being a top tier team or just every dog having it's day? You could argue the same with our victories over the Pack and 49ers. In the big picture, there is no negative aspect of being an overachiever in sports because it's much sweeter as a fan when the expectations were never there. Unlike most Super Bowl champs who get a decent bandwagon movement for the title in the preseason, the 07 and 11 Giants weren't even mentioned in the playoff hunt.Take into consideration that we usually have the hardest schedule in the league and consistently beat many of the elite teams on the schedule. You obviously can't win em all. We don't get lucky like the Vikings and win because of a trap game. Sorry, but I disagree.

mainegiantsfan
12-29-2012, 11:31 PM
Hixon is far better than Barden or JJ. What are you watching? All you have to do is throw it his way. I would be very suprised if his ratio of catches to thrown NEAR him wan't better than the NO1 or 2 guys.