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View Full Version : We need to build our defense to stop Rg3 or we are not winning the division for while



experto
12-30-2012, 12:46 AM
It's obvious the Redsins and Rg3 are taking the nfl by storm and are looking dynamite.That means we gota build the d in a way to stop him and the redskins head to head.Solution: we need to focus on getting faster all around on defense and perhaps going to 3 - 4 to have more lbs on the field.I think Redskins are a serious threat to take over the nfc east.

experto
12-30-2012, 12:48 AM
I don't believe pass rush is gona work vs him because he's a duel threat qb,we need to focus on getting lots of quality fast lbs that can tackle.

Toadofsteel
12-30-2012, 01:04 AM
What we need to do is clone JPP. Damn near every time RG3 took off (same with Vick earlier in the year), it was away from JPP. Usually it was Osi on the line. If we get a dominant DE run stopper to start opposite JPP against these mobile QBs, we can stop them before they even get to the second level...

Sarcasman
12-30-2012, 01:16 AM
Complete nonsense.

The Redskins are a formerly crappy team that made a smart hire in Mike Shanahan. Shanahan's program is starting to get traction and the Redskins appear to be decent this year and will likely continue to improve with him at the helm as long as Snyder stays smart which really means that Snyder doesn't meddle in what Shanahan is building. Certainly there is no guarantee about that because Snyder is an imbecile.

If all of that happens, the Redskins will become a good team and then perhaps a top tier team for many years thereafter. But they aren't even to the very good stage yet. Moreover, the QB is part of the system, not the other way around. You don't build your team to try to stop one guy, that guy doesn't win any games by himself. Have any teams changed their entire defenses to stop Adrian Peterson or Calvin Johnson? Both are bigger impact players than Griffin yet no teams have overhauled their defenses to defend either of them. You know why? Because changing your team to defend one good player - especially a rookie is stupid.

You build your team to compete at a high level for many years and to win games, not to defend a good player on another team.

Your thought about our defense needing some new direction has some merit, we have undervalued the LB position for too many years now.

experto
12-30-2012, 01:25 AM
I always believed lbs are the key to being a great defense.They anchor the defense and everyone feeds off them.

Sarcasman
12-30-2012, 01:31 AM
I always believed lbs are the key to being a great defense.They anchor the defense and everyone feeds off them.

Yeah, and we haven't had good LBs in many, many years. The D-line used to be able to cover that weakness, those days are gone.

Cloud57
12-30-2012, 01:37 AM
What we need to do is clone JPP. Damn near every time RG3 took off (same with Vick earlier in the year), it was away from JPP. Usually it was Osi on the line. If we get a dominant DE run stopper to start opposite JPP against these mobile QBs, we can stop them before they even get to the second level...JPP is a little slow.

ibbill
12-30-2012, 01:52 AM
JPP is a little slow.
He can do back flips faster than Tuck can run.

Toadofsteel
12-30-2012, 02:01 AM
JPP is a little slow.

He's also our most dominant run defender this year. That's why you have a couple people getting crazy ideas of him as a linebacker...

TheBookOfEli
12-30-2012, 02:08 AM
It's not only we SHOULD build a defense to defend RG3 but for pretty much all the other teams. The future QB of the NFL will have to be mobile and accurate. Times are changing and it's time to start adjusting.

WiIdcat
12-30-2012, 02:22 AM
What we need to do is clone JPP. Damn near every time RG3 took off (same with Vick earlier in the year), it was away from JPP. Usually it was Osi on the line. If we get a dominant DE run stopper to start opposite JPP against these mobile QBs, we can stop them before they even get to the second level...

JPP is a dominant DE run stopper. In fact PFF rates him as the best run defending DE in the entire league this year! What we need is another athletic pass rusher opposite JPP. I was thinking we could go after Michael Johnson of the Bengals who is about to have double digit sacks this year, or draft a guy like Dion Jordan out of Oregon. The 245lb Jordan needs to add another 20lbs to his frame, but at 6'7 that should be no problem. He is a freak athlete with rare speed for a player of his length and size.

nhpgiantsfan
12-30-2012, 09:57 AM
Complete nonsense.

The Redskins are a formerly crappy team that made a smart hire in Mike Shanahan. Shanahan's program is starting to get traction and the Redskins appear to be decent this year and will likely continue to improve with him at the helm as long as Snyder stays smart which really means that Snyder doesn't meddle in what Shanahan is building. Certainly there is no guarantee about that because Snyder is an imbecile.

If all of that happens, the Redskins will become a good team and then perhaps a top tier team for many years thereafter. But they aren't even to the very good stage yet. Moreover, the QB is part of the system, not the other way around. You don't build your team to try to stop one guy, that guy doesn't win any games by himself. Have any teams changed their entire defenses to stop Adrian Peterson or Calvin Johnson? Both are bigger impact players than Griffin yet no teams have overhauled their defenses to defend either of them. You know why? Because changing your team to defend one good player - especially a rookie is stupid.

You build your team to compete at a high level for many years and to win games, not to defend a good player on another team.

Your thought about our defense needing some new direction has some merit, we have undervalued the LB position for too many years now.

It's really not nonsense.. You can't compare a WR to a QB. Obviously teams don't build a defense to stop 1 WR. But I with out a doubt those teams in the NFC north are thinking about Calvin Johnson when putting together their secondary.

The Giants and the rest of the NFC east will def be thinking about the fact that they will be playing RG3 twice a year for the next decade
when they go to draft next year. Just like the Cowboys were thinking of our WR's when the overhauled their secondary this past off season.

I'm not saying you build a defense around trying to stop a specific player but he will def be a factor when they make a few personnel decisions.

miked1958
12-30-2012, 10:09 AM
Lets not jump the gun on RG3 and the Redskins. Yes we need to revamp the D some but that's just because of Dead would and aging players. As far as griffin and the Skins, lets see how he does in 2013. Tennessee looked unstoppable with Vince Young when he came out of Texas fresh off his TD run that won him an MVP and National Title after the throwing for 240 and running for 200. Had an unreal season for titans setting tons of records. Then in 2nd season NFL teams started to figure him out. He from then on started a sharp decline and today is out of the NFL or at least will never be a starter again.


Then you have Cam Newtons MVP and National Title and Heisman Trophy winner tearing up Stats and breaking Records for Carolina. Then in his 2nd season AGAIN the NFL defense showed college stuff won't work long term in the NFL. He looks average at best now.


I realize RG prob is the best all around player for arm and legs but I feel again it won't last. Either he gets figured out or he gets hurt which every comes first..

miked1958
12-30-2012, 10:12 AM
Also not saying this will happen with RG.. (To much talent) but look at least of Heisman winners over say past 15/20 years. Guys with Lots of potential coming out that most turned out to be Busts..







http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Heisman_Trophy_winners

Redeyejedi
12-30-2012, 10:27 AM
I don't believe pass rush is gona work vs him because he's a duel threat qb,we need to focus on getting lots of quality fast lbs that can tackle. No u still win in the NFL with athletic and big defensive fronts I dont care what the new offensive fad is

Redeyejedi
12-30-2012, 10:28 AM
Lets not jump the gun on RG3 and the Redskins. Yes we need to revamp the D some but that's just because of Dead would and aging players. As far as griffin and the Skins, lets see how he does in 2013. Tennessee looked unstoppable with Vince Young when he came out of Texas fresh off his TD run that won him an MVP and National Title after the throwing for 240 and running for 200. Had an unreal season for titans setting tons of records. Then in 2nd season NFL teams started to figure him out. He from then on started a sharp decline and today is out of the NFL or at least will never be a starter again.


Then you have Cam Newtons MVP and National Title and Heisman Trophy winner tearing up Stats and breaking Records for Carolina. Then in his 2nd season AGAIN the NFL defense showed college stuff won't work long term in the NFL. He looks average at best now.


I realize RG prob is the best all around player for arm and legs but I feel again it won't last. Either he gets figured out or he gets hurt which every comes first..I still think he will have a very serious leg injury. His career was almost ended a couple weeks ago

Hooligans
12-30-2012, 10:29 AM
It's obvious the Redsins and Rg3 are taking the nfl by storm and are looking dynamite.That means we gota build the d in a way to stop him and the redskins head to head.Solution: we need to focus on getting faster all around on defense and perhaps going to 3 - 4 to have more lbs on the field.I think Redskins are a serious threat to take over the nfc east.

That means good and fast linebackers....all the Giant linebackers are slow and/or suck.

GameTime
12-30-2012, 10:30 AM
So you develope your roster around two games a season and 1 player???

wrong

Redeyejedi
12-30-2012, 10:34 AM
I think the best player for the Giants is Eziekel Ansah from BYU. He is long ,very strong , athletic ,Motor thats relentless and can play the run. U draft him with JPP on the other side with solid tackling CB's the edges are protected. Then all u need is a downhill physical MLB that can tackle

Eliscruzzz
12-30-2012, 10:36 AM
I think the best player for the Giants is Eziekel Ansah from BYU. He is long ,very strong , athletic ,Motor thats relentless and can play the run. U draft him with JPP on the other side with solid tackling CB's the edges are protected. Then all u need is a downhill physical MLB that can tackleI know that guy, saw him playing ND. They were saying on t.v. that he was a raw talent but look how JPP turned out.

VBGiantsFan
12-30-2012, 10:39 AM
We would be much better if we could stop Alfred Morris with our interior line and linebacker and not be afraid to rush RGIII. Morris is the reason RGIII looks this amazing and the sole reason Cousins played as well as he did.

Ultimately, the Giants D had no response for Shannahan's zone running scheme, or really any other running scheme this season.

Redeyejedi
12-30-2012, 10:40 AM
I know that guy, saw him playing ND. They were saying on t.v. that he was a raw talent but look how JPP turned out.

Here is some videos I cut of him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O4NawUsjtc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFYELG3ItAk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEe0b0bqmAI

Eliscruzzz
12-30-2012, 10:41 AM
Here is some videos I cut of him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O4NawUsjtc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFYELG3ItAk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEe0b0bqmAIthanks.

Eliscruzzz
12-30-2012, 10:46 AM
Here is some videos I cut of him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O4NawUsjtc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFYELG3ItAk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEe0b0bqmAIYeah I would take him too. He has great range, speed, tackles good. Good at covering flats. Do you think the Giants will go there and take him??

GameTime
12-30-2012, 10:50 AM
another "freakish athelete ho is raw".........right up the Giants alley.
He may be a very high draft pick.

Redeyejedi
12-30-2012, 10:54 AM
Yeah I would take him too. He has great range, speed, tackles good. Good at covering flats. Do you think the Giants will go there and take him??I think the NY Giants will be very interested in him. This is only his 2nd year playing Football before this he was on the track team.He has the requisite size 6'5 275 and he has a relentless motor. He plays inside a lot as well and thats something the Giants really miss.Do u remember how good this Giant defense looked with Tuck rushing the QB inside on 3rd down. he was 1 of the most productive pass rushers in the NFL in terms of pressure from the 1st Super Bowl to 2010. That wrinkle in the Giants defense doesnt exist anymore. Ansah can give that back to the Giants. The way Ansah plays the run I really think this is the pick that can have the most impact on the defense as a whole. I dont think they are done though with that pick for the DLine. I still think they need to draft a speed rusher as well.

Redeyejedi
12-30-2012, 10:57 AM
another "freakish athelete ho is raw".........right up the Giants alley.
He may be a very high draft pick.I think he is less raw then JPP was

Eliscruzzz
12-30-2012, 10:57 AM
I think the NY Giants will be very interested in him. This is only his 2nd year playing Football before this he was on the track team.He has the requisite size 6'5 275 and he has a relentless motor. He plays inside a lot as well and thats something the Giants really miss.Do u remember how good this Giant defense looked with Tuck rushing the QB inside on 3rd down. he was 1 of the most productive pass rushers in the NFL in terms of pressure from the 1st Super Bowl to 2010. That wrinkle in the Giants defense doesnt exist anymore. Ansah can give that back to the Giants. The way Ansah plays the run I really think this is the pick that can have the most impact on the defense as a whole. I dont think they are done though with that pick for the DLine. I still think they need to draft a speed rusher as well.Yeah but you know what sucks about that we probably won't see him until TC wants him to play. But like you said I could see him making an impact on 3rd in the rotation.

dakotajoe
12-30-2012, 11:17 AM
Then you have Cam Newtons MVP and National Title and Heisman Trophy winner tearing up Stats and breaking Records for Carolina. Then in his 2nd season AGAIN the NFL defense showed college stuff won't work long term in the NFL. He looks average at best now.


I don't think Giants should build a team to stop one player.

On the topic of other mobile QBs like Cam, he's been tearing it up the past 5 weeks. His stats are arguably better than Eli's now while playing for a bad team. I dislike the guy, but trying to be objective here. At the beginning of the season Carolina changed their offense to something similar to what he ran at Auburn. The experiment was a failure and they have since reverted back to what he ran last year. He's been lights out since including a blowout win against ATL, a team we couldn't score a point against.

Alfred Morris could barely crack 3.0 yards a carry on 27 attempts with Cousins at QB, however, with RGIII he averages over 5. Based on evidence it seems to me RGIII makes Morris rather than the other way around.

ANON837
12-30-2012, 11:20 AM
Nevermind the defense. They need to focus on keeping their offensive drives alive. This keeps the like of RG3 on the bench. Too many 3 and outs for my liking.

BurnerNYG
12-30-2012, 11:24 AM
I don't think Giants should build a team to stop one player.

On the topic of other mobile QBs like Cam, he's been tearing it up the past 5 weeks. His stats are arguably better than Eli's now while playing for a bad team. I dislike the guy, but trying to be objective here. At the beginning of the season Carolina changed their offense to something similar to what he ran at Auburn. The experiment was a failure and they have since reverted back to what he ran last year. He's been lights out since including a blowout win against ATL, a team we couldn't score a point against.

Alfred Morris could barely crack 3.0 yards a carry on 27 attempts with Cousins at QB, however, with RGIII he averages over 5. Based on evidence it seems to me RGIII makes Morris rather than the other way around.Thank you for this post sir. I don't know what's wrong with some of these posters.

bamf
12-30-2012, 12:36 PM
Every few years there is a wailing and gnashing of teeth because some super speedy quarterback comes out and causes havoc for a season or two, usually in some college, gimmicky offense.

And every time that QB gets figured out, hurt, etc etc. What doesn't happen is a QB like that wins a Super Bowl. The last "mobile" QB to win a Super Bowl was who... Steve Young? I wouldn't even classify him as a "running" quarterback in the same way I would these others.

Building a team around one first year player and an offense that hasn't shown repeatable success is just stupid.

gmen46
12-30-2012, 12:45 PM
Every few years there is a wailing and gnashing of teeth because some super speedy quarterback comes out and causes havoc for a season or two, usually in some college, gimmicky offense.

And every time that QB gets figured out, hurt, etc etc. What doesn't happen is a QB like that wins a Super Bowl. The last "mobile" QB to win a Super Bowl was who... Steve Young? I wouldn't even classify him as a "running" quarterback in the same way I would these others.

Building a team around one first year player and an offense that hasn't shown repeatable success is just stupid.

Bingo.

(Although I would say Rogers is today's equivalent of Young. Both are/were very effective runners when they need to be, in order to move the chains when a pass play breaks down. But neither run/ran very many designed runs like RGIII or Cam as part of their game package.)

BJacobs aka The Problem
12-30-2012, 12:47 PM
Alfred Morris could barely crack 3.0 yards a carry on 27 attempts with Cousins at QB, however, with RGIII he averages over 5. Based on evidence it seems to me RGIII makes Morris rather than the other way around.

It's because of the play action. The one thing RGIII has going for him right now is his ability to completely freeze linebackers with play action. Not only does it cause the backers to sit and react to the handoff, which allows Morris to find empty holes, but it also allows him to find open receivers that would not normally have gotten open because a LB would have usually sat in that spot.

The way you go about stopping a QB like RGIII and the kind of game plan they run, is less reacting, more attacking and better tackling. That is how the Skins lost the games they have lost this seasons. Defenses were attacking the holes and making tackles. They were also attacking RGIII instead of trying to react to what he was doing.

The Skins offense is a very safe offense, hence RGIII's numbers, but if you attack him, you force him into mistakes. It was the only reason why the Giants won the first meeting. They forced him into a few mistakes. Last game against the skins, they got too cute and missed way too many tackles. I spent the whole game yelling at my TV for someone to hit him...and no one did.

As far as what this team should build around? I can tell you that this team would be so much better if they had a top tier MLB.

brad
12-30-2012, 12:52 PM
While I agree the defensive scheme needs to change, not just to stop RGIII, but to counter the way offenses use short quick passes, I don't think the Giants have the personnel to go to a 3-4. IMO, they need to draft/sign linebackers, going for more speed and ability to go into pass protection. The linebackers are still the weak link in the Giants defense and offenses have learned how to negate the pass rush.

BurnerNYG
12-30-2012, 01:13 PM
Every few years there is a wailing and gnashing of teeth because some super speedy quarterback comes out and causes havoc for a season or two, usually in some college, gimmicky offense.

And every time that QB gets figured out, hurt, etc etc. What doesn't happen is a QB like that wins a Super Bowl. The last "mobile" QB to win a Super Bowl was who... Steve Young? I wouldn't even classify him as a "running" quarterback in the same way I would these others.

Building a team around one first year player and an offense that hasn't shown repeatable success is just stupid.I didn't know a QB plays special teams and defense. Wow I learn something new everyday.

brad
12-30-2012, 01:44 PM
I didn't know a QB plays special teams and defense. Wow I learn something new everyday.

This is a thread about building the D to beat RGIII, not sure what you are suggesting, but bamf made a valid point

Sarcasman
12-30-2012, 05:37 PM
It's really not nonsense.. You can't compare a WR to a QB. Obviously teams don't build a defense to stop 1 WR. But I with out a doubt those teams in the NFC north are thinking about Calvin Johnson when putting together their secondary.

The Giants and the rest of the NFC east will def be thinking about the fact that they will be playing RG3 twice a year for the next decade
when they go to draft next year. Just like the Cowboys were thinking of our WR's when the overhauled their secondary this past off season.

I'm not saying you build a defense around trying to stop a specific player but he will def be a factor when they make a few personnel decisions.


I disagree, it is; you're welcome to your opinion. INterestingly your opinion is closer to mine than the OP's. The point of my example was to illustrate that you don't build your team to stop one player. That doesn't mean you don't take into account the other teams and their style of play, it means exactly what I said: you don't build your defense to stop one player. No one player wins games by himself and that is certainly true of Griffin and the Redskins. That team would be where they are whether it was Griffin or Cousins over center because they've been rebuilt by a guy who knows football.

But the idea that the scary Griffin should be the primary driver in how the Giants build their defense is idiotic.

Sarcasman
12-30-2012, 05:38 PM
So you develope your roster around two games a season and 1 player???

wrong

This is what I'm saying.

Sarcasman
12-30-2012, 05:42 PM
I don't think Giants should build a team to stop one player.

On the topic of other mobile QBs like Cam, he's been tearing it up the past 5 weeks. His stats are arguably better than Eli's now while playing for a bad team. I dislike the guy, but trying to be objective here. At the beginning of the season Carolina changed their offense to something similar to what he ran at Auburn. The experiment was a failure and they have since reverted back to what he ran last year. He's been lights out since including a blowout win against ATL, a team we couldn't score a point against.

Alfred Morris could barely crack 3.0 yards a carry on 27 attempts with Cousins at QB, however, with RGIII he averages over 5. Based on evidence it seems to me RGIII makes Morris rather than the other way around.

Great points on Cam. Too small a sample of Morris/Griffin.

Plus I don't believe the QB in Shanahan's system needs to be spectacular, he needs to execute the system. I think either QB in Washington can do that.

L.T.56
12-30-2012, 05:44 PM
they need to be better at stopping the run period. the redskins weren't the only team to shred them on the ground.

Sarcasman
12-30-2012, 05:44 PM
I didn't know a QB plays special teams and defense. Wow I learn something new everyday.

All the more reason why it is idiotic to build a defense around stopping one player. No one player wins anything.

rextilleon
12-30-2012, 05:46 PM
Well this theory is predicated on RG3 staying healthy. I don't think thats in the cards.

GiantWarfare
12-30-2012, 05:46 PM
You know what'd be really awesome?

Quality LBs.

'Nuff said.

giantcarll
12-30-2012, 07:27 PM
RG3 is good but think its his first year .He took every team he played by surprise just like Newton did the previous year.These coaches brought in there formations from college which made them.The Nfl will catch up to these formations as did they with Newton this year.Defenses will always adapt its just a matter of time.Plus RG3 is a runner just like Vick.In due time he will take a lot of hits and concussions because those type of QBs want to take matters into their on hands to make something happen.K.Warner said it on NFL network a while back.If the defense just goes after RG3 instead of watching the fake handoff and then just keep hitting him ,they eventually will do away with those formations.

BParcells777
12-30-2012, 07:29 PM
we have the D to stop him but the timid Fewell refused to bring the house and teach RG 3 a lesson

radar-ray
12-30-2012, 07:34 PM
we have the D to stop him but the timid Fewell refused to bring the house and teach RG 3 a lesson This. PF should have been bring lb/safety heat like he did today the rest of this season. He did the the same thing last year, playing soft the whole season until the last few games of the regular season and playoffs. Read and react sucks and does not fit the personnel on this team.

ghostoftommymaddox
12-30-2012, 07:47 PM
The need to counteract RGIII is real, but the Giants' front seven simply isn't physical enough. It's a personnel issue unrelated to who the opponent is.

bashful
12-30-2012, 07:55 PM
Really!! A good DC will put RGIII on his ***. It is called assignment football. He took the league by surprise, he wont't next season. The play to stop is the zone stretch.
Not an RGIII fan. Lets see what happens next yr. He needs to take off his Michael Jackson sleeve too

Sarcasman
12-30-2012, 08:15 PM
The need to counteract RGIII is real, but the Giants' front seven simply isn't physical enough. It's a personnel issue unrelated to who the opponent is.


The need to counter the Redskins is real. They're a division opponent.

Nobody changes their own team over one player from another team. Wait, that may not be 100% correct. Morons do.

Toadofsteel
12-30-2012, 08:28 PM
I'm thinking if we get a good linebacker or two we could do that 4-4-3 set that we saw in the ravens game... Only reason that didn't stop the run game was because it was Herzlich and Paysinger against Ray freaking Rice...

NYG216
12-30-2012, 08:35 PM
The redskins run a gimmick offense... it won't last.

Redeyejedi
12-30-2012, 08:38 PM
we have the D to stop him but the timid Fewell refused to bring the house and teach RG 3 a lessonthey scored 17 points and 1 TD was on a broken play

jaxnygmen
12-30-2012, 08:42 PM
We just need to get more speed at the LB position. We need to have a spy on him the entire time. Stay in the lanes and just contain the guy.