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Riverboat76
12-30-2012, 10:04 AM
Hypothetical situation here, but humor me.

Green Bay beats Minnesota.
Detroit beats Chicago.
Washington beats Dallas.

You have two options:

option #1 Giants win ugly vs the Eagles 17-16. Back into the playoffs. However, this guarantees that the entire coaching staff returns next year and there is minimal roster turnover (which would probably be the case if the Giants somehow get in).

option #2 Giants lose ugly vs the Eagles 23-13. Out of the playoffs in the most agonizing way. However, this guarantees at least one of the coordinators doesn't return (probably Fewell), and there is extensive roster turnover.


Which would you choose?

Dwinsballgames
12-30-2012, 10:08 AM
In the immortal words of Charles Portis: " I don't entertain hypotheticals. The world as it is is vexing enough."

Die-Hard
12-30-2012, 10:16 AM
Let them get in. Not a soul on this planet thought they'd win another SB last season, so I'll take that chance if given the option.

Riverboat76
12-30-2012, 10:24 AM
Let them get in. Not a soul on this planet thought they'd win another SB last season, so I'll take that chance if given the option.

Definately one way of looking at it, can't win it if you're not in it. I believe they were playing much better at the end of last season than this season (not a stretch to say). I felt pretty confident last year. This year would be shocking. I don't think they will beat Philly today, which should show you where I'm at with this team.

GameTime
12-30-2012, 10:37 AM
winning is ALWAYS better then losing....
and backing into the playoffs doesnt garauntee ****......

Riverboat76
12-30-2012, 10:42 AM
winning is ALWAYS better then losing....
and backing into the playoffs doesnt garauntee ****......

I don't think that's true at all. Sometimes losing is necessary because it brings change. It hurts more in the short-term but may be better in the long-term.

bELIeve_in_Giants
12-30-2012, 10:49 AM
Take the win and see what happens.

Riverboat76
12-30-2012, 11:06 AM
Take the win and see what happens.

I think I'm in this boat too. If the 3 early games fall into place then I will be one of the biggest Redskin fans on the planet come Sunday night.

I don't think there is a wrong answer to this question though. I don't think you are any less of a Giant fan if you welcome change.

BigBlueAllDay
12-30-2012, 11:09 AM
How is losing to the Eagles going to guarantee with absolutely no doubt that one of the coordinators is going to leave? I understand a lot of us want what is best for the team. The roster turnover is a lot more probable just because of the salary cap alone besides the team looking for improvement at certain positions.

Riverboat76
12-30-2012, 11:11 AM
How is losing to the Eagles going to guarantee with absolutely no doubt that one of the coordinators is going to leave? I understand a lot of us want what is best for the team. The roster turnover is a lot more probable just because of the salary cap alone besides the team looking for improvement at certain positions.

It's a hypothetical scenario.

M00KIE
12-30-2012, 11:13 AM
If there are coaching changes, whether it be HC/OC/DC, it will happen regardless unless we were to push far into the playoffs. If we get in and are one and done, it won't change anyones mind. These owners aren't flighty and make tough decisions based on the big picture.

Riverboat76
12-30-2012, 11:22 AM
If there are coaching changes, whether it be HC/OC/DC, it will happen regardless unless we were to push far into the playoffs. If we get in and are one and done, it won't change anyones mind. These owners aren't flighty and make tough decisions based on the big picture.

I don't think that's true. If the Giants lose to the Eagles and don't make the playoffs because of that loss (thus completing this epic collapse), then there is A LOT more motivation and pressure to make changes.

GameTime
12-30-2012, 11:23 AM
I don't think that's true at all. Sometimes losing is necessary because it brings change. It hurts more in the short-term but may be better in the long-term.

I hear what your intent is but I still hold to that priciple. Winnning is better. Because win or lose the Gianst problem are still clearly evident...and change must happen either way

M00KIE
12-30-2012, 11:26 AM
I don't think that's true. If the Giants lose to the Eagles and don't make the playoffs because of that loss (thus completing this epic collapse), then there is A LOT more motivation and pressure to make changes.

Why would you (or the owners) think we missed the playoffs because of a loss to the Eagles? They dug their hole long before todays game, it's no secret.

Riverboat76
12-30-2012, 11:29 AM
I hear what your intent is but I still hold to that priciple. Winnning is better. Because win or lose the Gianst problem are still clearly evident...and change must happen either way

I would bet you a dollar or two that if the Giants win this game and make the playoffs everybody keeps their jobs.

I would also bet that if the Giants lose to the Eagles in the same embarrasing fasion that they have lost the last two games, people will lose their jobs.

I think this is an important game for the coaching staff. I think everybody except Coughlin is vulnverable if the Giants lose this game.

Riverboat76
12-30-2012, 11:32 AM
Why would you (or the owners) think we missed the playoffs because of a loss to the Eagles? They dug their hole long before todays game, it's no secret.

Yes, they dug their hole but they can still somehow make the playoffs if the chips fall their way. If that happens then a lot of the sins of this season will be forgotten. People aren't necessarily going to remember how you make the playoffs...just that you've made the playoffs. Everybody will remember the epic collapse that prevents you from making the playoffs however.

DandyDon
12-30-2012, 11:36 AM
I would bet you a dollar or two that if the Giants win this game and make the playoffs everybody keeps their jobs.

I would also bet that if the Giants lose to the Eagles in the same embarrasing fasion that they have lost the last two games, people will lose their jobs.

I think this is an important game for the coaching staff. I think everybody except Coughlin is vulnverable if the Giants lose this game.

I agree with you. Especially if we get blown out.

giantsfan420
12-30-2012, 11:39 AM
Let them get in. Not a soul on this planet thought they'd win another SB last season, so I'll take that chance if given the option.agreed 100%. same with 07 and '11 in a lot of ways too...

Riverboat76
12-30-2012, 11:44 AM
I agree with you. Especially if we get blown out.

Can't you see a scenario where McCoy, Brown and Vick rack up like 250 yards rushing in this game? Giants can't convert third downs, settle for field goals. Eagles play hard for Reid's last game etc, etc. Giants look like listless zombies playing out the string. Tuck on the sidelines smiling, already thinking about his next SUBWAY commercial...

Another terrible game from the Giants and that would be 3 in a row to close out a season, when a win in just one of them may have been enough to get them in the playoffs. Somebody would pay with their job, players and coaches.

M00KIE
12-30-2012, 11:48 AM
Yes, they dug their hole but they can still somehow make the playoffs if the chips fall their way. If that happens then a lot of the sins of this season will be forgotten. People aren't necessarily going to remember how you make the playoffs...just that you've made the playoffs. Everybody will remember the epic collapse that prevents you from making the playoffs however.

I guess that's just where we disagree. I don't think this game will sway ownership too much. I think they will evaluate the entire season meticulously and make decisions based on that. I remember it was rumored that the Wash game (in 2006) saved TC that year, Mara always denied that was the case and I gotta believe it.

BigBlue1971
12-30-2012, 11:50 AM
I would bet you a dollar or two that if the Giants win this game and make the playoffs everybody keeps their jobs.

I would also bet that if the Giants lose to the Eagles in the same embarrasing fasion that they have lost the last two games, people will lose their jobs.

I think this is an important game for the coaching staff. I think everybody except Coughlin is vulnverable if the Giants lose this game.

personally i think win or lose the coaches keep their job but players will be shuffled!

Riverboat76
12-30-2012, 11:54 AM
I guess that's just where we disagree. I don't think this game will sway ownership too much. I think they will evaluate the entire season meticulously and make decisions based on that. I remember it was rumored that the Wash game (in 2006) saved TC that year, Mara always denied that was the case and I gotta believe it.

Like I said, most people don't remember how you get there, just that you got there. Does anybody remember two years ago...the Packers shouldn't even have been in the playoffs. Desean Jackson returns the punt vs Giants, completing that epic comeback and essentially knocking the Giants out and letting Green Bay in. Or last year, if Romo hits a wide-open Miles Austin late in the 2nd game vs NY, Giants comeback to win the game and the division. Of course the rest is history. How differently do we feel today if Dallas wins that game last year? EVERYBODY HERE would be ready to start the Bill Cowher era.

stormblue
12-30-2012, 12:07 PM
don't get your hopes up....the coaching staff is not going anywhere....playoff run or not.
unlessTC decides to make any coaching changes (ie ..Dumping PF) it would be up to him....
management ain't gonna do anything....they are not gonna pay TC 6 mil to play golf
and bounce grandchildren on his lap next year.

winning is always better than losing......and any players chosen
past the first 10 or so picks in the draft are just a crap shoot.
and ..even at that ...there are still many busts in the top 10....
and we don't have cap money for a high 1st round pick anyway.

besides , i would love to give Andy Reid a nice kick in the ice-bucket on his way out the door.
he has absolutely tortured us for a decade and a half.

gmen46
12-30-2012, 12:15 PM
Like I said, most people don't remember how you get there, just that you got there. Does anybody remember two years ago...the Packers shouldn't even have been in the playoffs. Desean Jackson returns the punt vs Giants, completing that epic comeback and essentially knocking the Giants out and letting Green Bay in. Or last year, if Romo hits a wide-open Miles Austin late in the 2nd game vs NY, Giants comeback to win the game and the division. Of course the rest is history. How differently do we feel today if Dallas wins that game last year? EVERYBODY HERE would be ready to start the Bill Cowher era.

That Dallas game last year you refer to was the first Dallas game, not the second. The difference between this year and last year--if we win today, thus having identical win-loss records--is that last year we had to win the last 2 games in order to win the division and make the post season. We did. That wasn't "backing in" to the playoffs. That was earning a post season slot on our own. This year, on the other hand, the only way we can make playoffs IS by backing in (by virtue of depending upon 3 other teams to win in addition to us winning today).

If we do make the playoffs and go one-and-done, there will be no difference to the mindset of Mara, Reese, etc, as Mookie says. One game will not make a difference to how Giants evaluate this season and players/coaching.

If you think Reese has not already at least begun to lay out a framework for their off season moves, you've not paid attention to how this organization operates. Reese, in particular, is always thinking several steps ahead in terms of personnel decisions--12 months a year, not just after Week 17..

If, however, we do get in and go all the way to the NFCCG or Super Bowl, that would alter some thinking, yes--but ONLY if we got that far. A long shot by any standard.

Riverboat76
12-30-2012, 12:19 PM
don't get your hopes up....the coaching staff is not going anywhere....playoff run or not.
unlessTC decides to make any coaching changes (ie ..Dumping PF) it would be up to him....
management ain't gonna do anything....they are not gonna pay TC 6 mil to play golf
and bounce grandchildren on his lap next year.

winning is always better than losing......and any players chosen
past the first 10 or so picks in the draft are just a crap shoot.
and ..even at that ...there are still many busts in the top 10....
and we don't have cap money for a high 1st round pick anyway.

besides , i would love to give Andy Reid a nice kick in the ice-bucket on his way out the door.
he has absolutely tortured us for a decade and a half.

I bet if the Giants lose today and the D plays the same as it has (really the whole year), Fewell will not be back.

And I don't think Coughlin will leave until he is ready to. Coughlin getting fired (this year) would be an impossibility in my eyes and I never brought that up as a possibility. I don't care about draft positioning...the Giants have talent on the team, it's simply underachieving...which is a byproduct of bad scheming and poor motivation.

TroyArcher
12-30-2012, 12:22 PM
As longs as I am breathing I am never rooting for the Giants to lose to the Eagles.

Riverboat76
12-30-2012, 12:29 PM
That Dallas game last year you refer to was the first Dallas game, not the second. The difference between this year and last year--if we win today, thus having identical win-loss records--is that last year we had to win the last 2 games in order to win the division and make the post season. We did. That wasn't "backing in" to the playoffs. That was earning a post season slot on our own. This year, on the other hand, the only way we can make playoffs IS by backing in (by virtue of depending upon 3 other teams to win in addition to us winning today).

If we do make the playoffs and go one-and-done, there will be no difference to the mindset of Mara, Reese, etc, as Mookie says. One game will not make a difference to how Giants evaluate this season and players/coaching.

If you think Reese has not already at least begun to lay out a framework for their off season moves, you've not paid attention to how this organization operates. Reese, in particular, is always thinking several steps ahead in terms of personnel decisions--12 months a year, not just after Week 17..

If, however, we do get in and go all the way to the NFCCG or Super Bowl, that would alter some thinking, yes--but ONLY if we got that far. A long shot by any standard.

I think getting to the playoffs and being one and done is miles better than not getting there at all.

And I hope you're right about Reese. If we somehow made the playoffs AND he got rid of Fewell after the season I would say the man is a genius. But I don't think that happens.

stormblue
12-30-2012, 12:36 PM
I bet if the Giants lose today and the D plays the same as it has (really the whole year), Fewell will not be back.

And I don't think Coughlin will leave until he is ready to. Coughlin getting fired (this year) would be an impossibility in my eyes and I never brought that up as a possibility. I don't care about draft positioning...the Giants have talent on the team, it's simply underachieving...which is a byproduct of bad scheming and poor motivation.

and you are probably right....i'm just saying that management won't force TC's hand.....if Fewell goes it will be because Coughlin says so.
and i certainly hope so . our offense is just in a bad funk....our defense is an abysmal embarrassment.