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View Full Version : Statistical Difference between Eli's 2012 and 2011 regular season



Markroman
12-30-2012, 10:38 PM
If you look at the stats between 2012 and 2011 regular seasons.

Eli threw 1 less intercept, 9 less sacks, and 3 less fumbles lost in 2012 compared to 2011. There were 50 less pass attempts in 2012 but, nevertheles, Eli had fewer "bad plays" per attempt.

The real difference is Eli went from 8.4 yards per attempt to 7.4 this year.

What was gone or the big reduction was in the "big gainers". There is no doubt that it is attributable to loss of Manningham and the injury to Nicks above all else.

I also think defenses took the big gainer away from the Giants this year.

End of the day, the Giants finished 9-7 with a tough schedule and tons of key injuries. I do not think it was as bad as some posters would paint the season. I think people need to be realistic of what we achieved with what we had. I also think throwing people who won 2 Superbowls under a bus (whether it is Eli or TC or whoever) is a little short sighted.

gmen0820
12-30-2012, 10:41 PM
Never stopped to look at the numbers, but it seems pretty consistent with what I've been saying. Interesting post.

Rudyy
12-30-2012, 10:43 PM
I don't understand how he's "regressed".

ny06
12-30-2012, 10:45 PM
Consistency was the big difference from this year to last.

NYGFaninILL
12-30-2012, 10:47 PM
I can see that. Eli was supported by a great receiving corps last year. Cruz, Nicks, MM, Ballard. And the Healthy Bradshaw/Jacobs tandem. With MM and Ballard gone, and Nicks hurt 3/4 of the season, Nobody stepped up and filled the 3rd receiver well. Benett did fill in nicely for Ballard, but I think its a downgrade. Jernigan, Hixon, and randle were spotty at best this year. I think we need to go into a 2 TE set

wrek537emc
12-30-2012, 11:04 PM
we need a younger oline n nicks healthy. end of story

NYG4lifeNYK
12-30-2012, 11:06 PM
I don't understand how he's "regressed".
Neither do I.

I say the offense let him down this year more than anything.

Sarcasman
12-30-2012, 11:08 PM
Never stopped to look at the numbers, but it seems pretty consistent with what I've been saying. Interesting post.

I agree. Your point in the other thread on the difference healthy playmakers makes to this offense could easily reconcile the difference in the numbers. The WR's YAC gave Eli's stats a good boost last year, that was missing this year.

gmen0820
12-30-2012, 11:09 PM
I agree. Your point in the other thread on the difference healthy playmakers makes to this offense could easily reconcile the difference in the numbers. The WR's YAC gave Eli's stats a good boost last year, that was missing this year.Yup definitely helped the stats. Well, I mean it helped the offense as a whole.

Roosevelt
12-30-2012, 11:11 PM
If you look at the stats between 2012 and 2011 regular seasons.

Eli threw 1 less intercept, 9 less sacks, and 3 less fumbles lost in 2012 compared to 2011. There were 50 less pass attempts in 2012 but, nevertheles, Eli had fewer "bad plays" per attempt.

The real difference is Eli went from 8.4 yards per attempt to 7.4 this year.

What was gone or the big reduction was in the "big gainers". There is no doubt that it is attributable to loss of Manningham and the injury to Nicks above all else.

I also think defenses took the big gainer away from the Giants this year.

End of the day, the Giants finished 9-7 with a tough schedule and tons of key injuries. I do not think it was as bad as some posters would paint the season. I think people need to be realistic of what we achieved with what we had. I also think throwing people who won 2 Superbowls under a bus (whether it is Eli or TC or whoever) is a little short sighted.


All things considered, do you think Eli played as well as he did in 2011?

giantsfan420
12-30-2012, 11:14 PM
well done OP. nice post.

giantsfan420
12-30-2012, 11:15 PM
Neither do I.

I say the offense let him down this year more than anything.i agree with this. also feel the defense didnt help much, but they didnt last year during the reg season either...

Kez Simpson
12-30-2012, 11:15 PM
All things considered, do you think Eli played as well as he did in 2011?

I don't think he did. He tried to force things to happen that he didn't necessary need to. I think with a healthy Nicks, Cruz, Randle and Hixon going forward he will play better next year. That is also dependent on the O-line situation, which needs to be upgraded.

Harooni
12-30-2012, 11:19 PM
exactly my point , fans look at stats so when they are padded during blowouts its not an accurate assessment. sure on paper the stats are similar , but we all know he was better last season. much better overall.

same with def and off rankings. coughlin is one smart cookie but it will backfire one day when a starter goes down in a blow out and he leaves them in.

Roosevelt
12-30-2012, 11:21 PM
I don't think he did. He tried to force things to happen that he didn't necessary need to. I think with a healthy Nicks, Cruz, Randle and Hixon going forward he will play better next year. That is also dependent on the O-line situation, which needs to be upgraded.

Eli was put in a position this year to make tougher plays, and he came up short - just like the rest of our team.

Redeyejedi
12-30-2012, 11:21 PM
If you look at the stats between 2012 and 2011 regular seasons.

Eli threw 1 less intercept, 9 less sacks, and 3 less fumbles lost in 2012 compared to 2011. There were 50 less pass attempts in 2012 but, nevertheles, Eli had fewer "bad plays" per attempt.

The real difference is Eli went from 8.4 yards per attempt to 7.4 this year.

What was gone or the big reduction was in the "big gainers". There is no doubt that it is attributable to loss of Manningham and the injury to Nicks above all else.

I also think defenses took the big gainer away from the Giants this year.

End of the day, the Giants finished 9-7 with a tough schedule and tons of key injuries. I do not think it was as bad as some posters would paint the season. I think people need to be realistic of what we achieved with what we had. I also think throwing people who won 2 Superbowls under a bus (whether it is Eli or TC or whoever) is a little short sighted. I disagree he was extremely inconsistent todays games made his numbers look passable. 18 of Elis 26 TD passes game in 5 games the other 11 he had 8

Kez Simpson
12-30-2012, 11:22 PM
exactly my point , fans look at stats so when they are padded during blowouts its not an accurate assessment. sure on paper the stats are similar , but we all know he was better last season. much better overall.

same with def and off rankings. coughlin is one smart cookie but it will backfire one day when a starter goes down in a blow out and he leaves them in.

I don't think today's blowout had anything to do with stat padding. The season was over when we lost to the Ravens. Why not stomp a hole in a divisional rival who has owned you the last 3 years?

Kez Simpson
12-30-2012, 11:23 PM
I disagree he was extremely inconsistent todays games made his numbers look passable. 18 of Elis 26 TD passes game in 5 games the other 11 he had 8

I don't think he was extremely inconsistent that isn't being fair, considering our O-line play.

Redeyejedi
12-30-2012, 11:25 PM
I don't think he was extremely inconsistent that isn't being fair, considering our O-line play. he missed a lot of throws made a lot of poor decisions. He is a 20 million dollar QB he deserves a lot of the blame

Buddy333
12-30-2012, 11:32 PM
I disagree he was extremely inconsistent todays games made his numbers look passable. 18 of Elis 26 TD passes game in 5 games the other 11 he had 8Don't forget the accuracy issues. It's not bashing Eli to say these things. It just is what it is. Did the OL stink? Yeah. It's stunk last year too. The loss of Manningh hurt. The injuries to Nicks hurt. These two factors hurt Cruz even though he had a decent year. Add not being as on the money as last year and it all added up to their poor 3rd down rate and struggles in the red zone. They have playmakers though. A piece here and there, healthy players, and a more accurate Eli means playoffs next year.

Kez Simpson
12-30-2012, 11:33 PM
Don't forget the accuracy issues. It's not bashing Eli to say these things. It just is what it is. Did the OL stink? Yeah. It's stunk last year too. The loss of Manningh hurt. The injuries to Nicks hurt. These two factors hurt Cruz even though he had a decent year. Add not being as on the money as last year and it all added up to their poor 3rd down rate and struggles in the red zone. They have playmakers though. A piece here and there, healthy players, and a more accurate Eli means playoffs next year.

He was off on his throws this year. A lot of passes got away from him.

dakotajoe
12-30-2012, 11:34 PM
His numbers were right in line with what you would expect considering what arguably is his favorite target played gimpy almost the whole season. I believe it was three games into the season when Eli was the league's leading passer. It was the same week Nicks injured his knee and the passing game was never the same after that. Eli did miss a number of open receivers though.

MM had a bad year in 2011, Hixon actually outproduced him this year and Bennett outproduced Ballard. Cruz's and Nick's production dropped significantly.

I can see why people are disappointed in Eli's production. There were talks about him being a Hall of Famer before the season and how he would have a better season than Peyton. This was supposed to be the year that Eli would silence all the naysayers.

Zaggs
12-30-2012, 11:39 PM
All things considered, do you think Eli played as well as he did in 2011?

I think he did. Last year Eli alot of times threw the ball where the receiver could make a play, and they did, and it worked out (as an exampled look at Cruz's 2 TD's in the first Eagles game of 2011). This year the throws were still there, but the plays weren't being made.

G-MENBK
12-30-2012, 11:41 PM
he missed a lot of throws made a lot of poor decisions. He is a 20 million dollar QB he deserves a lot of the blame

Cruz is 2nd in the league with dropped passes; probably is tied for 1st after today. Him and Nicks were almost 1000 yards off pace from total yards they gained last season.

Eli definitely made some boneheaded plays and I'm not going to absolve him for them. However, Cruz was not as clutch as last season and Coughlin hurt this offense by allowing Nicks to play instead of somebody else.

Sarcasman
12-30-2012, 11:54 PM
he missed a lot of throws made a lot of poor decisions. He is a 20 million dollar QB he deserves a lot of the blame


I think there were a lot of plays that got made last year that didn't get made this year. Some of that is on Eli and some ain't. But he is the QB and that's the most important position on the team so that's where it goes. I think that's true regardless of dollars.

DarkSaint
12-31-2012, 12:03 AM
The difference between Eli of 2011 and 2012 is that defenses had our offense figured out. Hakeem Nicks already said so.

Zaggs
12-31-2012, 12:04 AM
The difference between Eli of 2011 and 2012 is that defenses had our offense figured out. Hakeem Nicks already said so.

Pretty sure that happens every year. That or year after year despite changes in personnel the players get really tired half way through and start that swoon we always see.

GiantRoc
12-31-2012, 12:24 AM
I love Eli, but there is no way he was as good this year as last. His throws were off target. He didn't do a good job of finding open receivers. The numbers are misleading. There are many things that lead to it. Injuries were a big part of it. Poor line play also. I think there was just a lack of confidence in the offensive playbook this year. Last year, big plays helped this team a lot. Many of those came on missed tackles and missed assignments. This year teams played to stop our big plays. That really exposed our weak O- line. Bottom line... we are a 9 & 7 team because we played bad football. I hate to say it, but Eli was a part of that bad play.

Roosevelt
12-31-2012, 12:32 AM
I think he did. Last year Eli alot of times threw the ball where the receiver could make a play, and they did, and it worked out (as an exampled look at Cruz's 2 TD's in the first Eagles game of 2011). This year the throws were still there, but the plays weren't being made.

Eli missed so many throws this year that were there IMO. He wasn't the same QB.

Drez
12-31-2012, 12:44 AM
Eli missed so many throws this year that were there IMO. He wasn't the same QB.
Eli was off, no doubt, but the receivers didn't get nearly as much YAC this year, too (even taking into account Eli's offness).

Manning
12-31-2012, 12:47 AM
There were game where the offense and I sputtered for too long. Then there were games where we had great success. It still is a consistency issue. I have to improve this, it is unacceptable.

gumby74
12-31-2012, 01:06 AM
Consistency was the big difference from this year to last.

and IMO accuracy. The reason why Eli had more yards per attempt last year is because he hit open WRs in stride.

Markroman
12-31-2012, 01:24 AM
Did Eli play as well in 2012 as 2011? I think he played about the same.

Another stat to consider:

In 2011 Eli had 5 games where his Qb rating was less than 80. In 2012, he also had 5 games where his rating was less than 80.

Eli played against weaker defenses in 2011 than 2012...the EAST Division of the AFC vs. the Steelers division this year.

Eli did not play well vs Falcons. The Ravens game was on the defense. He did play lights out against the 49ers/Packers.

Moral of story: People want to blame someone. Fact is 2011 Giants had a healthy offense. Frick...they still scored over 400 pts!

Reality is: the defense stunk out the joint in key situations.

GameTime
12-31-2012, 01:26 AM
team effort in winning and losing.
both the O and the D coughed it up this year.....

Sarcasman
12-31-2012, 01:39 AM
Reality is: the defense stunk out the joint in key situations.


Not fair! They were exhausted.

They hardly got any sleep the whole season.

Redeyejedi
12-31-2012, 08:05 AM
U guys dont have to agree with me but I think there was a very noticeable difference in the level of play from Eli Manning this season. I thought he was very average. I didnt think he was Elite ,I dont think he was even a Top 10 QB. A lot of U are saying not to take his money into account while I disagree. When u eat up the cap space that Eli manning does u expect a level of play that unquestionably raises the level of the teams play week in week out. I didnt see that anywhere near enough this season. U want to blame it on Nicks well it certainly plays a role but the Giants have enough skill players in my opinion to get the job done. Big problems i saw were accuracy based and forcing plays that werent there

Buddy333
12-31-2012, 09:07 AM
U guys dont have to agree with me but I think there was a very noticeable difference in the level of play from Eli Manning this season. I thought he was very average. I didnt think he was Elite ,I dont think he was even a Top 10 QB. A lot of U are saying not to take his money into account while I disagree. When u eat up the cap space that Eli manning does u expect a level of play that unquestionably raises the level of the teams play week in week out. I didnt see that anywhere near enough this season. U want to blame it on Nicks well it certainly plays a role but the Giants have enough skill players in my opinion to get the job done. Big problems i saw were accuracy based and forcing plays that werent thereThis.

chasjay
12-31-2012, 09:24 AM
All things considered, do you think Eli played as well as he did in 2011?

I think it is pretty clear that, overall, Eli threw the ball more consistently in 2011. I think the difference in the two years was because of overall team factors more so than Eli individually. He needed to pick them up a couple times in the 4th quarter this year that he wasn't able to. It's still a team game - as many are quick to point out when Eli does well.

nhpgiantsfan
12-31-2012, 10:18 AM
It's really all about Nicks. A healthy Nicks makes Eli and every WR on the field better. Plain and simple. No need to over analyze.

Eliscruzzz
12-31-2012, 11:09 AM
It's really all about Nicks. A healthy Nicks makes Eli and every WR on the field better. Plain and simple. No need to over analyze.+1

EliDaMANning
12-31-2012, 11:24 AM
It's really all about Nicks. A healthy Nicks makes Eli and every WR on the field better. Plain and simple. No need to over analyze.I'll take it one step further and say a healthy WR outside would've made every other player better. Forget about Nicks for a second, we saw Eli work wonders with practice team players like Hagen and Barden, why was the coaching staff being so stubborn keeping Nicks out there?

It obviously hurt Eli's stats but more importantly, cost us the season. With a healthy WR, and some competent coaching Eli would've had 35+ TD this season.

TheAnalyst
12-31-2012, 11:36 AM
I don't understand how he's "regressed".Under 4000 yards passing. Yesterdays 5 tds made his season look better, but Eli was not good this year. Id probably rank him 10-12th in the league in 2012. That is not even close to being worth 20 million dollars a year. But then you look at the other side and say he won 2 superbowls for us so, its tough.

GameTime
12-31-2012, 11:42 AM
Regressed is such a **** word. Did Brees regress??
Seems only Eli "regresses" but other QBs just have bad seasons.

Eli had a bad season......plain and simple.

Eliscruzzz
12-31-2012, 12:25 PM
Regressed is such a **** word. Did Brees regress??
Seems only Eli "regresses" but other QBs just have bad seasons.

Eli had a bad season......plain and simple.+1

gumby74
12-31-2012, 12:48 PM
Regressed is such a **** word. Did Brees regress??
Seems only Eli "regresses" but other QBs just have bad seasons.

Eli had a bad season......plain and simple.

Difference is that Brees has been playing at a consistent high level for a very long time. His level of play is now linear. The only unanimous great season Eli has had was 2011. His progression was that of improving every year. After such a huge drop off, it's only fair to say Eli might have regressed instead of having an off season.

EliDaMANning
12-31-2012, 12:54 PM
Difference is that Brees has been playing at a consistent high level for a very long time. His level of play is now linear. The only unanimous great season Eli has had was 2011. His progression was that of improving every year. After such a huge drop off, it's only fair to say Eli might have regressed instead of having an off season.Not really, outside his first couple of years he's been playing at a high level his entire career. Even in his 25 int year, Brees was right behind him with 23. But in that year there were far more tipped passes and wrong routes ran by the WR.

Eli has always been consistently in the mid teens in INT. We can expect that from him. His numbers weren't as bad considering Nicks was hurt most of the year and we have KG calling stupid plays.

IrishHothead
12-31-2012, 12:55 PM
I agree

Sarcasman
12-31-2012, 01:13 PM
U guys dont have to agree with me but I think there was a very noticeable difference in the level of play from Eli Manning this season. I thought he was very average. I didnt think he was Elite ,I dont think he was even a Top 10 QB. A lot of U are saying not to take his money into account while I disagree. When u eat up the cap space that Eli manning does u expect a level of play that unquestionably raises the level of the teams play week in week out. I didnt see that anywhere near enough this season. U want to blame it on Nicks well it certainly plays a role but the Giants have enough skill players in my opinion to get the job done. Big problems i saw were accuracy based and forcing plays that werent there


I don't agree simply because one is a performance discussion and one is a market discussion.

If you do not want a franchise QB running your team, I think that's absolutely valid. But it means you are changing the structure, personnel and philosophy of the team, not just one position.

It may well be a valid discussion. OK, so you've got your journeyman QB starting. What's next? Take me through it; what would you do next, where would you spend your money and how would you build the team?

Sarcasman
12-31-2012, 01:27 PM
Under 4000 yards passing. Yesterdays 5 tds made his season look better, but Eli was not good this year. Id probably rank him 10-12th in the league in 2012. That is not even close to being worth 20 million dollars a year. But then you look at the other side and say he won 2 superbowls for us so, its tough.


I agree, it is tough. If every player in the league played for one year contracts, I'd agree with the statement, "That is not even close to being worth 20 million dollars a year". But they don't. Therefore - as you allude in your post - something like that feels more like an oversimplification than anything else.

I believe that in order to have a valid analysis one would need to evaluate the player's performance over the life of the entire contract while reviewing that contract within the context of the market for similarly paid players of the same position.

gumby74
12-31-2012, 01:32 PM
Difference is that Brees has been playing at a consistent high level for a very long time. His level of play is now linear. The only unanimous great season Eli has had was 2011. His progression was that of improving every year. After such a huge drop off, it's only fair to say Eli might have regressed instead of having an off season.


Not really, outside his first couple of years he's been playing at a high level his entire career. Even in his 25 int year, Brees was right behind him with 23. But in that year there were far more tipped passes and wrong routes ran by the WR.

Eli has always been consistently in the mid teens in INT. We can expect that from him. His numbers weren't as bad considering Nicks was hurt most of the year and we have KG calling stupid plays.

Most people out there disagree with you. Define "high level". Playing average/above average for 56 minutes only to turn into superman for the final 2 minutes of each half/game, doesn't mean "high level" to me. Nor is it consistent. It doesn't convince other people either. See the link in my Sig.

You also can't take at individual stats by themselves. You need to put them in context.

25 INTs by itself means nothing. However, having 75 TD passes and 25 INTS is a great number. But, having 1 TD and 25INTS is terrible.

Kez Simpson
12-31-2012, 01:41 PM
Most people out there disagree with you. Define "high level". Playing average/above average for 56 minutes only to turn into superman for the final 2 minutes of each half/game, doesn't mean "high level" to me. Nor is it consistent. It doesn't convince other people either. See the link in my Sig.

You also can't take at individual stats by themselves. You need to put them in context.

25 INTs by itself means nothing. However, having 75 TD passes and 25 INTS is a great number. But, having 1 TD and 25INTS is terrible.


Please, you crusade to discredit Eli Manning is laughable. That's your whole agenda in every post regarding Eli.

With a healthy Nicks, and a solid (notice I said solid not good) O-line Eli is very consistent in his play. So GTFO with your crusade to discredit the man.

His play in the playoff last year lack consistency? Go back to your Gnome hole, in which you only come out to discredit our franchise QB.

Kez Simpson
12-31-2012, 01:45 PM
Difference is that Brees has been playing at a consistent high level for a very long time. His level of play is now linear. The only unanimous great season Eli has had was 2011. His progression was that of improving every year. After such a huge drop off, it's only fair to say Eli might have regressed instead of having an off season.

Brees is a int machine get out of here with this. They play a vertical pass first offense, where for a long part of Eli Career it was run first offense. Brees throws the majority of his TDs from the 5 yard line as does Brady, as does Rodgers. To his credit at least the Saints don't have a dink and dunk QB rating friendly offense like last two I mention.

Rudyy
12-31-2012, 01:47 PM
Under 4000 yards passing. Yesterdays 5 tds made his season look better, but Eli was not good this year. Id probably rank him 10-12th in the league in 2012. That is not even close to being worth 20 million dollars a year. But then you look at the other side and say he won 2 superbowls for us so, its tough.Slightly under 4000 yards passing is not a regression, at least to me. People say Eli regressed because he did not have all the 4th quarter comebacks.

Kez Simpson
12-31-2012, 01:50 PM
If the Offense would have capitalize the numerous chances it had in the redzone this wouldn't even be up for debate.

EliDaMANning
12-31-2012, 01:52 PM
Most people out there disagree with you. Define "high level". Playing average/above average for 56 minutes only to turn into superman for the final 2 minutes of each half/game, doesn't mean "high level" to me. Nor is it consistent. It doesn't convince other people either. See the link in my Sig.

You also can't take at individual stats by themselves. You need to put them in context.

25 INTs by itself means nothing. However, having 75 TD passes and 25 INTS is a great number. But, having 1 TD and 25INTS is terrible.Says the guy who will quickly point out Eli's 25 int year as the normality. If you want to put it into context he also threw for over 30TD that year. Mostly with a bunch of newcomers who couldn't understand the playbook.

Eli has been consistent his entire career in my opinion. He's had a couple of high INT years but for the most part he's kept it in the mid teens. He's never going to throw for 40+ TD like other QB because he doesn't play in a dome and he has an incompetent OC. One thing I respect about them is they actually try to pound the ball in from the goal line while other QB love to pad their stats.

Kez Simpson
12-31-2012, 01:53 PM
Says the guy who will quickly point out Eli's 25 int year as the normality. If you want to put it into context he also threw for over 30TD that year. Mostly with a bunch of newcomers who couldn't understand the playbook.

Eli has been consistent his entire career in my opinion. He's had a couple of high INT years but for the most part he's kept it in the mid teens. He's never going to throw for 40+ TD like other QB because he doesn't play in a dome and he has an incompetent OC. One thing I respect about them is they actually try to pound the ball in from the goal line while other QB love to pad their stats.


He won't have 40tds because we run at the 5 yard line, barely try to playaction pass. Andre Brown had 8 rushing Tds this season, which is a staple of what we do in the redzone.

jakegibbs
12-31-2012, 01:59 PM
If you look at the stats between 2012 and 2011 regular seasons.

Eli threw 1 less intercept, 9 less sacks, and 3 less fumbles lost in 2012 compared to 2011. There were 50 less pass attempts in 2012 but, nevertheles, Eli had fewer "bad plays" per attempt.

The real difference is Eli went from 8.4 yards per attempt to 7.4 this year.

What was gone or the big reduction was in the "big gainers". There is no doubt that it is attributable to loss of Manningham and the injury to Nicks above all else.

I also think defenses took the big gainer away from the Giants this year.

End of the day, the Giants finished 9-7 with a tough schedule and tons of key injuries. I do not think it was as bad as some posters would paint the season. I think people need to be realistic of what we achieved with what we had. I also think throwing people who won 2 Superbowls under a bus (whether it is Eli or TC or whoever) is a little short sighted.

+1 in order for this offense to click on all cylinders you have too repeat have to have 3 viable WR's not 2.333 or 2.5 but 3.0 viable WRs available on every offensive possession. End of story.

gumby74
12-31-2012, 02:02 PM
Please, you crusade to discredit Eli Manning is laughable. That's your whole agenda in every post regarding Eli.

With a healthy Nicks, and a solid (notice I said solid not good) O-line Eli is very consistent in his play. So GTFO with your crusade to discredit the man.

His play in the playoff last year lack consistency? Go back to your Gnome hole, in which you only come out to discredit our franchise QB.

My crusade? Point out a single post where I started to say anything bad about Eli. When he was playing well, i said he was playing well. My posts about Eli always come in response to an Eli fan coming out of left field.

Eli has been consistently great the entire season exactly once his entire career. And that was in 2011. Pretty much anyone who watches football can see that. It's just a handful that insist on thinking he's been great for a long time.

Don't you guys get tired of seeing the same thing over and over again? Eli is inconsistent. Eli is not elite. Eli is not this etc etc? Ever wonder WHY there are so many polarizing articles written about him? Do you think the entire world is out to get him? Or maybe, just maybe, there is something about Eli's play that cause people to question him. So maybe it's time YOU get your head out of the sand. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Like it or not, Eli was labeled as inaccurate and inconsistent by the common public. When you're labeled as something early on in your career, it's going to take twice as long to remove that label. It applies to school as well. Once you're labeled a geek, how hard is it going to be for a person to get that monkey off his back? Like it or not, the public sees Eli's only great season as 2011. Is that enough to convince people? Because Alex Smith had one great season, are you ready to label him as one of the great ones? No. You want to see if he can do it again.

It boggles my mind how many people love to use small sample sizes to prove their point. You're going to use a stretch of 6 games to prove your point. Really? I can do the same and show you that Mark Sanchez is consistent too. So before you tell someone to "gtfo", look at yourself in the mirror. And maybe, just maybe, you'll learn something.

EliDaMANning
12-31-2012, 02:04 PM
He won't have 40tds because we run at the 5 yard line, barely try to playaction pass. Andre Brown had 8 rushing Tds this season, which is a staple of what we do in the redzone.And that's perfectly fine. It's just annoying to see some of the people here salivate over high TD passes from stat padders like Brees and brady

gumby74
12-31-2012, 02:07 PM
Says the guy who will quickly point out Eli's 25 int year as the normality. If you want to put it into context he also threw for over 30TD that year. Mostly with a bunch of newcomers who couldn't understand the playbook.

Eli has been consistent his entire career in my opinion. He's had a couple of high INT years but for the most part he's kept it in the mid teens. He's never going to throw for 40+ TD like other QB because he doesn't play in a dome and he has an incompetent OC. One thing I respect about them is they actually try to pound the ball in from the goal line while other QB love to pad their stats.

a 1 to 1 ratio of TDs to INTs is terrible. Granted 25 INTs was an outlier for him. But I didn't bring up that stat, someone who was defending him did. Otherwise, I'd never use it as a case for my opinion.

I challenge you to look up Eli's history of performances on a game by game basis and compare that to Ben's. Compare the two and tell me if Eli is consistent. 2011 aside, you'll find that Eli's history of stringing together 2 straight games is not very good.

Buddy333
12-31-2012, 02:08 PM
My crusade? Point out a single post where I started to say anything bad about Eli. When he was playing well, i said he was playing well. My posts about Eli always come in response to an Eli fan coming out of left field.Eli has been consistently great the entire season exactly once his entire career. And that was in 2011. Pretty much anyone who watches football can see that. It's just a handful that insist on thinking he's been great for a long time. Don't you guys get tired of seeing the same thing over and over again? Eli is inconsistent. Eli is not elite. Eli is not this etc etc? Ever wonder WHY there are so many polarizing articles written about him? Do you think the entire world is out to get him? Or maybe, just maybe, there is something about Eli's play that cause people to question him. So maybe it's time YOU get your head out of the sand. Wake up and smell the coffee. Like it or not, Eli was labeled as inaccurate and inconsistent by the common public. When you're labeled as something early on in your career, it's going to take twice as long to remove that label. It applies to school as well. Once you're labeled a geek, how hard is it going to be for a person to get that monkey off his back? Like it or not, the public sees Eli's only great season as 2011. Is that enough to convince people? Because Alex Smith had one great season, are you ready to label him as one of the great ones? No. You want to see if he can do it again.It boggles my mind how many people love to use small sample sizes to prove their point. You're going to use a stretch of 6 games to prove your point. Really? I can do the same and show you that Mark Sanchez is consistent too. So before you tell someone to "gtfo", look at yourself in the mirror. And maybe, just maybe, you'll learn something.You are not allowed to say Eli had a bad season. Or at even not as good a season as last year.

Kez Simpson
12-31-2012, 02:11 PM
My crusade? Point out a single post where I started to say anything bad about Eli. When he was playing well, i said he was playing well. My posts about Eli always come in response to an Eli fan coming out of left field.

Eli has been consistently great the entire season exactly once his entire career. And that was in 2011. Pretty much anyone who watches football can see that. It's just a handful that insist on thinking he's been great for a long time.

Don't you guys get tired of seeing the same thing over and over again? Eli is inconsistent. Eli is not elite. Eli is not this etc etc? Ever wonder WHY there are so many polarizing articles written about him? Do you think the entire world is out to get him? Or maybe, just maybe, there is something about Eli's play that cause people to question him. So maybe it's time YOU get your head out of the sand. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Like it or not, Eli was labeled as inaccurate and inconsistent by the common public. When you're labeled as something early on in your career, it's going to take twice as long to remove that label. It applies to school as well. Once you're labeled a geek, how hard is it going to be for a person to get that monkey off his back? Like it or not, the public sees Eli's only great season as 2011. Is that enough to convince people? Because Alex Smith had one great season, are you ready to label him as one of the great ones? No. You want to see if he can do it again.

It boggles my mind how many people love to use small sample sizes to prove their point. You're going to use a stretch of 6 games to prove your point. Really? I can do the same and show you that Mark Sanchez is consistent too. So before you tell someone to "gtfo", look at yourself in the mirror. And maybe, just maybe, you'll learn something.


Again I say GTFO, Eli level play has improved since the 2007 superbowl, sure he had an off year 2010, but so did a lot of the great ones. Eli is the real deal, and we are lucky to have him in this organization. What is laughable is your crusade to discredit him and label him as a inconsistent QB, when he has proven he can be very consistent behind a decent O-line and healthy receiving core. I don't know what freaking games you've been watching. The pundits like glorfied stats, 4tds games, 400 yards passing that is consistent in those dink and dunk offenses. A offense we don't run, and never will.

Now, I'm not gonna sit here and act as if Eli hasn't played well for stretches, because he has, but he always bounces back, and he always gives this team the best chance to win given reasonable circumstances. So don't give me this BS crap about him being overall inconsistent, I don't buy it.

You got to be out your mind to compare Eli and Mark Sanchez run, considering Eli won the damn superbowl in both instances, so again I say GTFO with you discredit campaign. Agree with you so-called ''experts", they been wrong about Eli more than they have been right.

giantsfan420
12-31-2012, 02:12 PM
Please, you crusade to discredit Eli Manning is laughable. That's your whole agenda in every post regarding Eli.

With a healthy Nicks, and a solid (notice I said solid not good) O-line Eli is very consistent in his play. So GTFO with your crusade to discredit the man.

His play in the playoff last year lack consistency? Go back to your Gnome hole, in which you only come out to discredit our franchise QB.i love how he uses the "most people disagree with u" like its some quantifiable metric. and, to be honest, its most people disagree with gumby, he just doesnt have the capacity to understand that. anytime a qb is 1 of 5 to do something all time, the 3k and 20 tds at least over what, 8 yrs striaght now? yeah, elis consistently played at a high level, just not consistently the best and some get butt hurt over that. "every qb throws for 3k and 20 td" really> rg3 didnt

giantsfan420
12-31-2012, 02:14 PM
lol the patented gumby reasoning "pretty much every can see that." no. which is why 1 or 2 people agree with u tops, on whatever ur positions are lmfao.

giantsfan420
12-31-2012, 02:16 PM
gumby is no more correct on ANYTHING than anyone else. in fact, his reasoning actually makes him comical. we need posters like that around here. he takes the most incorrect, illogical statements and argues them to death, which makes things fun around here. hes like the last sanchez defender on the jets mb, just makes things comical and fun even if its at his expense and at him not with him.

gumby74
12-31-2012, 02:16 PM
Again I say GTFO, Eli level play has improved since the 2007 superbowl, sure he had an off year 2010, but so did a lot of the great ones. Eli is the real deal, and we are lucky to have him in this organization. What is laughable is your crusade to discredit him and label him as a inconsistent QB, when he has proven he can be very consistent behind a decent O-line and healthy receiving core. I don't know what freaking games you've been watching. The pundits like glorfied stats, 4tds games, 400 yards passing that is consistent in those dink and dunk offenses. A offense we don't run, and never will.

Now, I'm not gonna sit here and act as if Eli hasn't played well for stretches, because he has, but he always bounces back, and he always gives this team the best chance to win given reasonable circumstances. So don't give me this BS crap about him being overall inconsistent, I don't buy it.

You got to be out your mind to compare Eli and Mark Sanchez run, considering Eli won the damn superbowl in both instances, so again I say GTFO with you discredit campaign. Agree with you so-called ''experts", they been wrong about Eli more than they have been right.

It's just you (and a handful) against the world huh? Go nuts boss and dig your head deeper into the sand. Just like I told another poster, I challenge you to go back in Eli's career and show me how many times (save 2011) Eli has had back to back "good" games. And compare him to Ben. It's not even close. I promise you. You want proof? Go look it up.

So let's see. You say that Eli hasn't played well in stretches, but he always bounces back. If that doesn't wreak of inconsistency, I don't know what does.

GreenZone
12-31-2012, 02:17 PM
Without Pierre Garçon in the Redskins lineup, the team was 1-5 and with him in the lineup 9-1.

How injuries play a part in professional sports is a factor which cannot be understated. And if you include the players playing the game, but playing injured, the level of play of each team varies wildly based on both the seen (player out of the lineup) and unseen (players playing, but injured).

So, with that said, not only do I believe that Hakeem Nicks injury is the difference in the Giants making the playoffs or not, but the entire injury situation, particularly both lines, had a dramatic impact on the season, as well as Eli's performance.

Many people forget that there are 31 other teams full of draft choices that many here coveted while in college and of which players are also paid a lot of money to play the game.

Kez Simpson
12-31-2012, 02:18 PM
a 1 to 1 ratio of TDs to INTs is terrible. Granted 25 INTs was an outlier for him. But I didn't bring up that stat, someone who was defending him did. Otherwise, I'd never use it as a case for my opinion.

I challenge you to look up Eli's history of performances on a game by game basis and compare that to Ben's. Compare the two and tell me if Eli is consistent. 2011 aside, you'll find that Eli's history of stringing together 2 straight games is not very good.





105
2011
1
2011-09-11 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201109110was.htm)
30-251
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)
@
WAS (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was/2011.htm)
L 14-28
*
18
32
56.3%
268
0
1
70.8
8.38
6.97
1
2
2.00
1
1
6


106
2011
2
2011-09-19 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201109190nyg.htm)
30-259
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)

STL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/ram/2011.htm)
W 28-16
*
19
30
63.3%
223
2
1
94.2
7.43
7.27
4
-12
-3.00
0
0
0


107
2011
3
2011-09-25 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201109250phi.htm)
30-265
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)
@
PHI (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/phi/2011.htm)
W 29-16
*
16
23
69.6%
254
4
0
145.7
11.04
14.52
3
-3
-1.00
0
0
0


108
2011
4
2011-10-02 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201110020crd.htm)
30-272
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)
@
ARI (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/crd/2011.htm)
W 31-27
*
27
40
67.5%
321
2
0
108.4
8.03
9.03
3
-3
-1.00
0
0
0


109
2011
5
2011-10-09 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201110090nyg.htm)
30-279
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)

SEA (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sea/2011.htm)
L 25-36
*
24
39
61.5%
420
3
3
91.8
10.77
8.85
3
5
1.67
0
0
0


110
2011
6
2011-10-16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201110160nyg.htm)
30-286
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)

BUF (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2011.htm)
W 27-24
*
21
32
65.6%
292
0
0
94.8
9.13
9.13
2
-1
-0.50
0
0
0


111
2011
7
2011-10-30 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201110300nyg.htm)
30-300
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)

MIA (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/mia/2011.htm)
W 20-17
*
31
45
68.9%
349
2
0
106.6
7.76
8.64
4
-3
-0.75
0
0
0


112
2011
8
2011-11-06 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201111060nwe.htm)
30-307
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)
@
NWE (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/2011.htm)
W 24-20
*
20
39
51.3%
250
2
1
77.9
6.41
6.28
3
11
3.67
0
0
0


113
2011
9
2011-11-13 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201111130sfo.htm)
30-314
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)
@
SFO (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sfo/2011.htm)
L 20-27
*
26
40
65.0%
311
2
2
84.5
7.78
6.53
2
4
2.00
0
0
0


114
2011
10
2011-11-20 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201111200nyg.htm)
30-321
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)

PHI (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/phi/2011.htm)
L 10-17
*
18
35
51.4%
264
1
1
74.0
7.54
6.83
0
0

0
0
0


115
2011
11
2011-11-28 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201111280nor.htm)
30-329
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)
@
NOR (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nor/2011.htm)
L 24-49
*
33
47
70.2%
406
2
1
101.9
8.64
8.53
1
4
4.00
0
0
0


116
2011
12
2011-12-04 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201112040nyg.htm)
30-335
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)

GNB (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/2011.htm)
L 35-38
*
23
40
57.5%
347
3
1
100.7
8.68
9.05
0
0

0
0
0


117
2011
13
2011-12-11 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201112110dal.htm)
30-342
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)
@
DAL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal/2011.htm)
W 37-34
*
27
47
57.4%
400
2
1
90.7
8.51
8.40
2
-2
-1.00
0
0
0


118
2011
14
2011-12-18 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201112180nyg.htm)
30-349
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)

WAS (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was/2011.htm)
L 10-23
*
23
40
57.5%
257
0
3
45.5
6.43
3.05
0
0

0
0
0


119
2011
15
2011-12-24 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201112240nyj.htm)
30-355
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)
@
NYJ (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2011.htm)
W 29-14
*
9
27
33.3%
225
1
1
61.5
8.33
7.41
1
-1
-1.00
0
0
0


120
2011
16
2012-01-01 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201201010nyg.htm)
30-363
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)

DAL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal/2011.htm)
W 31-14
*
24
33
72.7%
346
3
0
136.7
10.48
12.30
6
14
2.33
0
0
0



----

Week 2, Week 3 and Week 4 he played great posting 94, 105, and 148, Week 5 we lost still had a qb rating of 91, Week 6 qb rating of 94, week 7 106. So what is this BS argument of not being able to to put two consistent games together. Please man, I heard enough.

Kez Simpson
12-31-2012, 02:21 PM
It's just you (and a handful) against the world huh? Go nuts boss and dig your head deeper into the sand. Just like I told another poster, I challenge you to go back in Eli's career and show me how many times (save 2011) Eli has had back to back "good" games. And compare him to Ben. It's not even close. I promise you. You want proof? Go look it up.

So let's see. You say that Eli hasn't played well in stretches, but he always bounces back. If that doesn't wreak of inconsistency, I don't know what does.

Every QB, great ones have bad stretches, does that mean they are inconsistent? Its not me against the world, your point of view is a very small minority in the Giants fanbase. I don't care about the world and their fantasy football stat crazed fandom. I did look it up since you were to lazy, yet you make arguments based on no relevant facts or statistical data.

giantsfan420
12-31-2012, 02:21 PM
i dunno bout anyone else, but the last person id pick to detail elis career is the guy who says "eli has a below avg. arm strength and is one of the weaker arms in the league" while being completely unable to provide any data to back it up. so gumby says elis inconsistent and bens consistent lmfao. who cares, makes things fun around here. kinda like the last sanchez defender on the jets mb, he gives everyone the ability to lol at moronic claims...just go with it. he doesnt offer any quantitative proof for any of his claims so, i mean, just dont take them seriously bc they dont deserve to be.

gumby74
12-31-2012, 02:21 PM
105
2011
1
2011-09-11 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201109110was.htm)
30-251
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)
@
WAS (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was/2011.htm)
L 14-28
*
18
32
56.3%
268
0
1
70.8
8.38
6.97
1
2
2.00
1
1
6


106
2011
2
2011-09-19 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201109190nyg.htm)
30-259
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)

STL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/ram/2011.htm)
W 28-16
*
19
30
63.3%
223
2
1
94.2
7.43
7.27
4
-12
-3.00
0
0
0


107
2011
3
2011-09-25 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201109250phi.htm)
30-265
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)
@
PHI (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/phi/2011.htm)
W 29-16
*
16
23
69.6%
254
4
0
145.7
11.04
14.52
3
-3
-1.00
0
0
0


108
2011
4
2011-10-02 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201110020crd.htm)
30-272
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)
@
ARI (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/crd/2011.htm)
W 31-27
*
27
40
67.5%
321
2
0
108.4
8.03
9.03
3
-3
-1.00
0
0
0


109
2011
5
2011-10-09 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201110090nyg.htm)
30-279
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)

SEA (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sea/2011.htm)
L 25-36
*
24
39
61.5%
420
3
3
91.8
10.77
8.85
3
5
1.67
0
0
0


110
2011
6
2011-10-16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201110160nyg.htm)
30-286
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)

BUF (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2011.htm)
W 27-24
*
21
32
65.6%
292
0
0
94.8
9.13
9.13
2
-1
-0.50
0
0
0


111
2011
7
2011-10-30 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201110300nyg.htm)
30-300
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)

MIA (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/mia/2011.htm)
W 20-17
*
31
45
68.9%
349
2
0
106.6
7.76
8.64
4
-3
-0.75
0
0
0


112
2011
8
2011-11-06 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201111060nwe.htm)
30-307
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)
@
NWE (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/2011.htm)
W 24-20
*
20
39
51.3%
250
2
1
77.9
6.41
6.28
3
11
3.67
0
0
0


113
2011
9
2011-11-13 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201111130sfo.htm)
30-314
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)
@
SFO (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sfo/2011.htm)
L 20-27
*
26
40
65.0%
311
2
2
84.5
7.78
6.53
2
4
2.00
0
0
0


114
2011
10
2011-11-20 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201111200nyg.htm)
30-321
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)

PHI (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/phi/2011.htm)
L 10-17
*
18
35
51.4%
264
1
1
74.0
7.54
6.83
0
0

0
0
0


115
2011
11
2011-11-28 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201111280nor.htm)
30-329
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)
@
NOR (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nor/2011.htm)
L 24-49
*
33
47
70.2%
406
2
1
101.9
8.64
8.53
1
4
4.00
0
0
0


116
2011
12
2011-12-04 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201112040nyg.htm)
30-335
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)

GNB (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/2011.htm)
L 35-38
*
23
40
57.5%
347
3
1
100.7
8.68
9.05
0
0

0
0
0


117
2011
13
2011-12-11 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201112110dal.htm)
30-342
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)
@
DAL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal/2011.htm)
W 37-34
*
27
47
57.4%
400
2
1
90.7
8.51
8.40
2
-2
-1.00
0
0
0


118
2011
14
2011-12-18 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201112180nyg.htm)
30-349
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)

WAS (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was/2011.htm)
L 10-23
*
23
40
57.5%
257
0
3
45.5
6.43
3.05
0
0

0
0
0


119
2011
15
2011-12-24 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201112240nyj.htm)
30-355
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)
@
NYJ (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2011.htm)
W 29-14
*
9
27
33.3%
225
1
1
61.5
8.33
7.41
1
-1
-1.00
0
0
0


120
2011
16
2012-01-01 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201201010nyg.htm)
30-363
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2011.htm)

DAL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal/2011.htm)
W 31-14
*
24
33
72.7%
346
3
0
136.7
10.48
12.30
6
14
2.33
0
0
0




----

Week 2, Week 3 and Week 4 he played great posting 94, 105, and 148, Week 5 we lost still had a qb rating of 91, Week 6 qb rating of 94, week 7 106. So what is this BS argument of not being able to to put two consistent games together. Please man, I heard enough.

What part of 2011 aside didn't you understand? It's obvious that 2011 was an abnormality.

gumby74
12-31-2012, 02:25 PM
Every QB, great ones have bad stretches, does that mean they are inconsistent? Its not me against the world, your point of view is a very small minority in the Giants fanbase. I don't care about the world and their fantasy football stat crazed fandom.

and that's what you don't get. Every QB has bad stretches, but those QBs who are given passes have a long history of consistent great production. Eli has yet to show that he can do that day in and day out. Like I said, just you against the world and keep your head in the sand. A label is given by the public whether you like it or not. So if you're going to take offense to a label, you better not turn a blind eye to the "world".

Kez Simpson
12-31-2012, 02:27 PM
What part of 2011 aside didn't you understand? It's obvious that 2011 was an abnormality.

Lmao, please man I know very well what I saw in 2011, if you what to remove that and his improvement from 2007 to now, then you are even a big clown then I thought. 16 game season leading to a superbowl is not an abnormality. YOu think the teams just lay down and let Eli do this? Please, you have nothing to base your argument on. The only thing consistent is your constant discredit of Eli, in any Eli thread that pops up. May it be his arm his weak or his is sole responsible for this season demise. Stop comparing Eli to Break Ben who can't play a full season, who takes sacks he shouldn't. Two different systems, and most of his stats come from broken plays, and dink and dunks.

giantsfan420
12-31-2012, 02:27 PM
and that's what you don't get. Every QB has bad stretches, but those QBs who are given passes have a long history of consistent great production. Eli has yet to show that he can do that day in and day out. Like I said, just you against the world and keep your head in the sand. A label is given by the public whether you like it or not. So if you're going to take offense to a label, you better not turn a blind eye to the "world".i havent seen anyone making the claims uve made...dunno why ur so confident in being aligned with the majority. even ian oconner who rips him still calls him an elite qb. i dont know where u get this stuff from, can u provide any sort of data or is this like us having to blindly follow what ur eyes tell u lmao...

giantsfan420
12-31-2012, 02:29 PM
Lmao, please man I know very well what I saw in 2011, if you what to remove that and his improvement from 2007 to now, then you are even a big clown then I thought. 16 game season leading to a superbowl is not an abnormality. YOu think the teams just lay down and let Eli do this? Please, you have nothing to base your argument on. The only thing consistent is your constant discredit of Eli, in any Eli thread that pops up. May it be his arm his weak or his is sole responsible for this season demise. Stop comparing Eli to Break Ben who can't play a full season, who takes sacks he shouldn't. Two different systems, and most of his stats come from broken plays, and dink and dunks.he never provides any sort of logical argument to his positions. its always the "im right ur wrong take ur head out of the sand." like i said, enjoy it. everyone else laughs at it/him, u might as well too

Kez Simpson
12-31-2012, 02:29 PM
and that's what you don't get. Every QB has bad stretches, but those QBs who are given passes have a long history of consistent great production. Eli has yet to show that he can do that day in and day out. Like I said, just you against the world and keep your head in the sand. A label is given by the public whether you like it or not. So if you're going to take offense to a label, you better not turn a blind eye to the "world".

I have yet to see this "label" you speak of, you keep roaming in your land of lala. Any other sports fan I talk to, has nothing but good things to say about Eli, and I interact with many perspectives given the nature of my job. Keep thinking what you want.

gumby74
12-31-2012, 02:30 PM
What part of 2011 aside didn't you understand? It's obvious that 2011 was an abnormality.


Lmao, please man I know very well what I saw in 2011, if you what to remove that and his improvement from 2007 to now, then you are even a big clown then I thought. 16 game season leading to a superbowl is not an abnormality. YOu think the teams just lay down and let Eli do this? Please, you have nothing to base your argument on. The only thing consistent is your constant discredit of Eli, in any Eli thread that pops up. May it be his arm his weak or his is sole responsible for this season demise. Stop comparing Eli to Break Ben who can't play a full season, who takes sacks he shouldn't. Two different systems, and most of his stats come from broken plays, and dink and dunks.

The only thing we're talking about is his consistency. This has nothing to do with if he's elite or not. For the record, I still think he's a top 6 QB in this league. Don't turn this into something more than what it is. Consistency. That's all we're talking about.

Kez Simpson
12-31-2012, 02:30 PM
he never provides any sort of logical argument to his positions. its always the "im right ur wrong take ur head out of the sand." like i said, enjoy it. everyone else laughs at it/him, u might as well too

I'm seeing that now. He tells me to look up data, instead of pulling up data to support his argument of the majority, of whom I don't know who he is referring too.

gumby74
12-31-2012, 02:31 PM
I have yet to see this "label" you speak of, you keep roaming in your land of lala. Any other sports fan I talk to, has nothing but good things to say about Eli, and I interact with many perspectives given the nature of my job. Keep thinking what you want.

Are you really suggesting that you dont' recall any articles about Eli and his inconsistency?

Kez Simpson
12-31-2012, 02:31 PM
The only thing we're talking about is his consistency. This has nothing to do with if he's elite or not. For the record, I still think he's a top 6 QB in this league. Don't turn this into something more than what it is. Consistency. That's all we're talking about.

How can you been Top anything if you are not consistent at some point or some type of long stretch in your career..? Doesn't make sense to me. I'm done, believe what you want.

BeatYale
12-31-2012, 02:32 PM
Almost half of his TD's last season (2011) were from big plays outside of the redzone. That stat, compared to other franchise QB's, was an anomaly. It showed how dependent our offense was on big plays because we weren't (and still aren't) the type of offense that would regularly put up methodical drives leading into the endzone, hence why we stall in the redzone. I posted the numbers a while ago in one of those epic 20+ page threads about our offense; Eli has been among the worst QB's in the league in redzone completion % and INTs over the last 3 years. Our offense just doesn't seem to do well when defenses take away the big play and in the redzone it's a similar situation because there's less field to work with. I think Eli could use a new OC.

gumby74
12-31-2012, 02:32 PM
I'm seeing that now. He tells me to look up data, instead of pulling up data to support his argument of the majority, of whom I don't know who he is referring too.

I've pulled up data comparing Ben vs Eli countless times. I even gave Ben the "Eli handicap". A good game for Ben is considered a QB rating of 90. For Eli it was 80. Now compare over the course of their careers how many times they had consecutive good back to back games. Try it. I don't have the time for it again.

Edit: It was something ridiculous like Ben had 6 times the number of 3 "good" games in a row and 3 times as many back to back good games. Remove the "Eli handicap" and it would have looked even worse.

gumby74
12-31-2012, 02:35 PM
How can you been Top anything if you are not consistent at some point or some type of long stretch in your career..? Doesn't make sense to me. I'm done, believe what you want.

And that's why he's such an enigma. And that's why there are so many articles questioning him.

Kez Simpson
12-31-2012, 02:36 PM
I've pulled up data comparing Ben vs Eli countless times. I even gave Ben the "Eli handicap". A good game for Ben is considered a QB rating of 90. For Eli it was 80. Now compare over the course of their careers how many times they had consecutive good back to back games. Try it. I don't have the time for it again.

Edit: It was something ridiculous like Ben had 6 times the number of 3 "good" games in a row and 3 times as many back to back good games. Remove the "Eli handicap" and it would have looked even worse.


Again, why are you comparing him to Big Ben? Two different offense systems, two different playing styles, Eli doesn't dink and dunk, he doesn't scramble from the pocket. As another poster said, our offense is heavily reliant on the big play that was not clicking this year like last year. Big Ben's offense throws first, and they throw more in the redzone than our offense. I don't see how a Big Ben and Eli comparison is relevant to what we are talking about.

If anything, how consistent is Big Ben at staying healthy relative to Eli, would that be a fair argument?

gumby74
12-31-2012, 02:47 PM
I've pulled up data comparing Ben vs Eli countless times. I even gave Ben the "Eli handicap". A good game for Ben is considered a QB rating of 90. For Eli it was 80. Now compare over the course of their careers how many times they had consecutive good back to back games. Try it. I don't have the time for it again.

Edit: It was something ridiculous like Ben had 6 times the number of 3 "good" games in a row and 3 times as many back to back good games. Remove the "Eli handicap" and it would have looked even worse.


Again, why are you comparing him to Big Ben? Two different offense systems, two different playing styles, Eli doesn't dink and dunk, he doesn't scramble from the pocket. As another poster said, our offense is heavily reliant on the big play that was not clicking this year like last year. Big Ben's offense throws first, and they throw more in the redzone than our offense. I don't see how a Big Ben and Eli comparison is relevant to what we are talking about.

If anything, how consistent is Big Ben at staying healthy relative to Eli, would that be a fair argument?

I compare him to big ben because #1) He's the closest to Eli in terms of years played, weather conditions, playoff success, and in general the "level" that people generally categorize the QBs. I could compare Eli to Brees, but that would hardly be fair. Remember what I've been saying, stats mean nothing if you have nothing to compare them against. One poster brought up 25 INTs. Well, what does it mean if it has no context? It could be a great stat or a poor stat.

When making these statements, there is no 100% fool proof way of proving anything. All we have are indicators. QB rating is a great indicator, but it's very flawed. Chances are a QB with a rating of 100 did better than a QB with a rating of 80. It usually is, but that's not always the case. There are reasons around everything. Different offenses, blah blah. You can defend Sanchez too. The only reason why I even bring up "public perception" is because that's what a lot of these adjectives are based on. Weak armed. Inconsistent. Accuracy. All of it is perception. Some more educated guesses than others, but there is no hard proof. In this case, you are what people say you are.

Remember, this is football. It's not physics where you're proving the earth is round. It's not rocket science.

Hooligans
12-31-2012, 03:50 PM
If you look at the stats between 2012 and 2011 regular seasons.

Eli threw 1 less intercept, 9 less sacks, and 3 less fumbles lost in 2012 compared to 2011. There were 50 less pass attempts in 2012 but, nevertheles, Eli had fewer "bad plays" per attempt.

The real difference is Eli went from 8.4 yards per attempt to 7.4 this year.

What was gone or the big reduction was in the "big gainers". There is no doubt that it is attributable to loss of Manningham and the injury to Nicks above all else.

I also think defenses took the big gainer away from the Giants this year.

End of the day, the Giants finished 9-7 with a tough schedule and tons of key injuries. I do not think it was as bad as some posters would paint the season. I think people need to be realistic of what we achieved with what we had. I also think throwing people who won 2 Superbowls under a bus (whether it is Eli or TC or whoever) is a little short sighted.

Eli stunk in 2012 as he had some games with a lot of stats, but 5 or 6 horrible games that resembled his rookie year....it was a bad year for Eli, and many of the Giants......but Eli was the worse of them all....he regressed, and once again looked erratic, inaccurate and lost in 5 of the Giants last 8 games.

jakegibbs
12-31-2012, 04:08 PM
Eli stunk in 2012 as he had some games with a lot of stats, but 5 or 6 horrible games that resembled his rookie year....it was a bad year for Eli, and many of the Giants......but Eli was the worse of them all....he regressed, and once again looked erratic, inaccurate and lost in 5 of the Giants last 8 games.

You can't have a productive offense when you don't have the right cogs in the wheel. Look at 1st 8 games stats & you'll see Eli & a semi healthy WR corp had put up over 2300 yds of passing offense which was on pace for another 4500 yard plus season. Playing a less than 75% healthy Nicks allowed opposing teams to take Cruz out of the game & load up on the run stopping. Add those up & sure he regressed. They could have went with Randle & who knows what might have happened. We got a small sample of that yesterday against the Eagles but we will never ever know now will we. It's all purely speculation at this late point of the game.

Markroman
12-31-2012, 04:10 PM
Eli had 5 games where he threw more than 1 pick.

Giants record in those 5 games was 3-2.

I would say the difference in seasons 2012 vs. 2011. The Giants D did not stop the other team late to give Eli the ball on the last series.

Giants Red Zone was hurt with no Nicks or Manningham presence. Its not more or less complicated than that.

Drez
12-31-2012, 04:19 PM
Eli stunk in 2012 as he had some games with a lot of stats, but 5 or 6 horrible games that resembled his rookie year....it was a bad year for Eli, and many of the Giants......but Eli was the worse of them all....he regressed, and once again looked erratic, inaccurate and lost in 5 of the Giants last 8 games.
And how much of that was the fact that the OL was a sieve?

EliDaMANning
12-31-2012, 04:25 PM
a 1 to 1 ratio of TDs to INTs is terrible. Granted 25 INTs was an outlier for him. But I didn't bring up that stat, someone who was defending him did. Otherwise, I'd never use it as a case for my opinion.

I challenge you to look up Eli's history of performances on a game by game basis and compare that to Ben's. Compare the two and tell me if Eli is consistent. 2011 aside, you'll find that Eli's history of stringing together 2 straight games is not very good.Eli doesn't have a 1 to 1 ratio. What the hell are you talking about now?

Eli has put together some solid game by game stats. I can post the stats from weeks 11-13 this year alone.

jakegibbs
12-31-2012, 04:26 PM
Eli was put in a position this year to make tougher plays, and he came up short - just like the rest of our team.

What do you mean tougher plays??? His recievers didn't make the tougher plays like they did last year was the biggest difference. Did you watch the Manningham catch in last years SB or the Ballard Catch against the Pats during reg season or the Nicks catch & run against ATL or the Nicks Catch against the Pack, or the Cruz catch & run against the hated JETS & on & on & on & on last year but this year they kept falling helplessly to the ground over & over & over & over.

Big plays are made by big players. This year as a team not enough big plays when called upon. Even the 50yd FG that came up inches short against philly would have them in the playoffs right now. Think about it. hmmmmm... I have....

gumby74
12-31-2012, 04:51 PM
Says the guy who will quickly point out Eli's 25 int year as the normality. If you want to put it into context he also threw for over 30TD that year. Mostly with a bunch of newcomers who couldn't understand the playbook.

Eli has been consistent his entire career in my opinion. He's had a couple of high INT years but for the most part he's kept it in the mid teens. He's never going to throw for 40+ TD like other QB because he doesn't play in a dome and he has an incompetent OC. One thing I respect about them is they actually try to pound the ball in from the goal line while other QB love to pad their stats.


a 1 to 1 ratio of TDs to INTs is terrible. Granted 25 INTs was an outlier for him. But I didn't bring up that stat, someone who was defending him did. Otherwise, I'd never use it as a case for my opinion.

I challenge you to look up Eli's history of performances on a game by game basis and compare that to Ben's. Compare the two and tell me if Eli is consistent. 2011 aside, you'll find that Eli's history of stringing together 2 straight games is not very good.


Eli doesn't have a 1 to 1 ratio. What the hell are you talking about now?

Eli has put together some solid game by game stats. I can post the stats from weeks 11-13 this year alone.

See bold blue. You said he threw 25 INTs but he also threw 30 TDs. That's very close to a 1 to 1 ratio no? If you want to measure consistency take his entire career into account. You can't just take a select handful of games. This small sample size gathering has to stop.

EliDaMANning
12-31-2012, 04:52 PM
See bold blue. You said he threw 25 INTs but he also threw 30 TDs. That's very close to a 1 to 1 ratio no? If you want to measure consistency take his entire career into account. You can't just take a select handful of games. This small sample size gathering has to stop.Yeah so lets take a look at the 2 previous years where it was 2:1.

1:1 never happened.

gumby74
12-31-2012, 04:54 PM
See bold blue. You said he threw 25 INTs but he also threw 30 TDs. That's very close to a 1 to 1 ratio no? If you want to measure consistency take his entire career into account. You can't just take a select handful of games. This small sample size gathering has to stop.


Yeah so lets take a look at the 2 previous years where it was 2:1.

1:1 never happened.

How about you look at his entire career instead? I'm talking about consistency again. As for your comment about the ratios, I'm assuming you're kidding.

jomo
12-31-2012, 04:56 PM
If you look at the stats between 2012 and 2011 regular seasons.

Eli threw 1 less intercept, 9 less sacks, and 3 less fumbles lost in 2012 compared to 2011. There were 50 less pass attempts in 2012 but, nevertheles, Eli had fewer "bad plays" per attempt.

The real difference is Eli went from 8.4 yards per attempt to 7.4 this year.

What was gone or the big reduction was in the "big gainers". There is no doubt that it is attributable to loss of Manningham and the injury to Nicks above all else.

I also think defenses took the big gainer away from the Giants this year.

End of the day, the Giants finished 9-7 with a tough schedule and tons of key injuries. I do not think it was as bad as some posters would paint the season. I think people need to be realistic of what we achieved with what we had. I also think throwing people who won 2 Superbowls under a bus (whether it is Eli or TC or whoever) is a little short sighted.I think the yards per attempt have nothing to do with Manningham but surely Nicks' health has had an impact plus the big pops to Cruz were gone this year except for the big one vs. Washington. You can add a tougher schedule to the reason's for lower YPA and it makes his reduction in picks more meaningful.

Interesting stats, thanks.

rtlax
12-31-2012, 04:57 PM
He didn't "regress". the O-line got worse. Nicks was out all year. The Giants got lazy and went to the well too many times. Eli is the one of the best play action QBs alive, how you let your O-Line slip knowing this is beyond me.

G-MENBK
12-31-2012, 05:12 PM
And how much of that was the fact that the OL was a sieve?

That, and Cruz couldn't come down with the ball, Nicks played hurt, neither of them could create any spacing between defenders or gain additional yards after the their receptions, Coughlin still preferring Nicks over Randle, Hixon, and even Barden.

Don't get me wrong, there definitely were some throws made that made you just sick to your stomach - that always has been the case with Eli, sadly - but overall, there were games where Eli had nothing to work with.

Roosevelt
12-31-2012, 05:19 PM
What do you mean tougher plays??? His recievers didn't make the tougher plays like they did last year was the biggest difference. Did you watch the Manningham catch in last years SB or the Ballard Catch against the Pats during reg season or the Nicks catch & run against ATL or the Nicks Catch against the Pack, or the Cruz catch & run against the hated JETS & on & on & on & on last year but this year they kept falling helplessly to the ground over & over & over & over.

Big plays are made by big players. This year as a team not enough big plays when called upon. Even the 50yd FG that came up inches short against philly would have them in the playoffs right now. Think about it. hmmmmm... I have....

Bad choice of words. Eli didn't get as much help is what I meant.

DarkSaint
12-31-2012, 05:42 PM
Eli didn't regress, the Oline play was terrible and the system that we run made things worse. The coaching staff's player evaluation also has to be questioned. Why was nicks playing hurt when we got better performances from Barden and Randle. The coaching staff was blinded by Nicks talent and the Browns game and kept forcing Eli to throw to him until the final game. Killdrive's system will reduce anyone's stats and if you don't think the system and OC makes a difference look at Bree's. His completion percentage dropped from 70% to 63%. We have a lot of low percentage plays in our playbook and the long developing plays increases the ineffectiveness of our Oline. If there is anything that regressed this year it is the collective IQ points of our coaches.

Buddy333
12-31-2012, 11:44 PM
They had the same OL and OC last year when they won the Super Bowl.

DarkSaint
01-01-2013, 12:34 AM
We won 9 games last year and 9 games this year with a tougher schedule. I'm not happy with 9 wins are you? With a better OL and OC we are playing next week.

gmen0820
01-01-2013, 12:41 AM
9 games this year with a tougher schedule. So if we win 9 games with a harder schedule, are you trying to say the team improved?

fizzlesticks
01-01-2013, 01:17 AM
It's really all about Nicks. A healthy Nicks makes Eli and every WR on the field better. Plain and simple. No need to over analyze.

No it isn't, they're 7-1(?) without him on the field. The problem was the terrible Oline, no running game and ridiculous amount of drops.

Redeyejedi
01-01-2013, 01:34 AM
Regressed is such a **** word. Did Brees regress??
Seems only Eli "regresses" but other QBs just have bad seasons.

Eli had a bad season......plain and simple.
Brees statistically was way better then Eli in every single category

This is Brees regressive season 43 TD's 19 Int 5177 yards

Rudyy
01-01-2013, 01:39 AM
Brees statistically was way better then Eli in every single categoryThis is Brees regressive season 43 TD's 19 Int 5177 yardsYou do realize the Saints throw it a LOT more than we do.

Redeyejedi
01-01-2013, 01:42 AM
You do realize the Saints throw it a LOT more than we do. The Ratios, YPC ,QB Rating all better comparing Eli to Brees is laughable

Rudyy
01-01-2013, 01:44 AM
The Ratios, YPC ,QB Rating all better comparing Eli to Brees is laughableI'm not saying Eli is better than Brees, but the Saints are way more passer friendly than the Giants.

Redeyejedi
01-01-2013, 01:47 AM
I'm not saying Eli is better than Brees, but the Saints are way more passer friendly than the Giants.What does that have to do with efficiency . Brees not only puts up better numbers but he is more efficient in reaching them

Rudyy
01-01-2013, 01:52 AM
What does that have to do with efficiency . Brees not only puts up better numbers but he is more efficient in reaching themDon't you think the system he is in helps that?

GMenNFCBeasts
01-01-2013, 03:12 AM
It has been feast or famine with Eli in 2012. That's what is referred to as inconsistency.

Eli had ONE game in 2011 with a QB rating below 60. These were his game QB ratings in the 2nd half of the 2012 season alone:

Week 8 Dallas - 58.4
Week 9 Pitts - 41.1
Week 10 Cinc - 56.0
Week 15 - Atl - 38.9

0 TDs in 4 of the last 9 games

2 TDs total in 6 of the last 9 games

And as ESPN points out: The Giants are 9-0 this season when they score at least 21 points, and 0-7 when they score 20 points or fewer.

greenca190
01-01-2013, 04:54 AM
I don't think anyone really regressed this year. I think defenses looked at our game tape, and opposing coordinators told their players if you don't ****ing tackle them when they catch the ball, they will run with it, and it will be even tougher to get them after that.

After the first game of the year, I said that's exactly why Dallas beat us. They tackled us when we had the ball in our hands.

Basically, the recipe to beat fundamental football, is to play better fundamental football.

giantsfan420
01-01-2013, 05:00 AM
What does that have to do with efficiency . Brees not only puts up better numbers but he is more efficient in reaching themwhen over 50% of ur passes are going to the rb's whp turn a 5 yd checkdown into 45 yards after catch yes it helps efeciency. id love seeing eli in the N.O offense

giantsfan420
01-01-2013, 05:02 AM
Eli didn't regress, the Oline play was terrible and the system that we run made things worse. The coaching staff's player evaluation also has to be questioned. Why was nicks playing hurt when we got better performances from Barden and Randle. The coaching staff was blinded by Nicks talent and the Browns game and kept forcing Eli to throw to him until the final game. Killdrive's system will reduce anyone's stats and if you don't think the system and OC makes a difference look at Bree's. His completion percentage dropped from 70% to 63%. We have a lot of low percentage plays in our playbook and the long developing plays increases the ineffectiveness of our Oline. If there is anything that regressed this year it is the collective IQ points of our coaches.

this.

BuffyBlueII
01-01-2013, 05:36 AM
I've pulled up data comparing Ben vs Eli countless times. I even gave Ben the "Eli handicap". A good game for Ben is considered a QB rating of 90. For Eli it was 80. Now compare over the course of their careers how many times they had consecutive good back to back games. Try it. I don't have the time for it again.

Edit: It was something ridiculous like Ben had 6 times the number of 3 "good" games in a row and 3 times as many back to back good games. Remove the "Eli handicap" and it would have looked even worse.

Hmmmm. So how did Rapistfatburger perform in SuperBowls? I guess he must have as many or more SuperBowl MVP Trophys than Eli Manning.

BuffyBlueII
01-01-2013, 05:39 AM
What do you mean tougher plays??? His recievers didn't make the tougher plays like they did last year was the biggest difference. Did you watch the Manningham catch in last years SB or the Ballard Catch against the Pats during reg season or the Nicks catch & run against ATL or the Nicks Catch against the Pack, or the Cruz catch & run against the hated JETS & on & on & on & on last year but this year they kept falling helplessly to the ground over & over & over & over.

Big plays are made by big players. This year as a team not enough big plays when called upon. Even the 50yd FG that came up inches short against philly would have them in the playoffs right now. Think about it. hmmmmm... I have....

That FG is one I have thought about quite a bit lately. I had a bad feeling when Tynes missed it that it would haunt us. Another mess was our garbage OC hancuffing our offense against Washington Redskins in 2nd half of the game at Fedex Field this year.

BuffyBlueII
01-01-2013, 05:42 AM
They had the same OL and OC last year when they won the Super Bowl.

Which shows how great Eli Manning truly is. He got advice from Peyton regularly during 2011 and IMO that was a huge difference. Lets just keep our fingers crossed that Eli Manning gets a good QB coach and a good OC this year.

BuffyBlueII
01-01-2013, 05:43 AM
The Ratios, YPC ,QB Rating all better comparing Eli to Brees is laughable

How about comparing SuperBowl wins. How laughable is that stat?

Hooligans
01-01-2013, 07:33 AM
Eli was terrible in 2012, and there is no excuse for it.

BuffyBlueII
01-01-2013, 02:16 PM
Eli was terrible in 2012, and there is no excuse for it.

Eli Manning did have an off year but you keep brininging up statistics and if we go by your base, he had a damn good year.

Eli Manning was inconsistent in 2012. There were a great many things wrong with us in 2012 and plenty of blame to go around but as far as players go, Eli Manning gets the most blame. He is our QB and leader and he should have addressed the issues on offense as well as our miserable piece of garbage OC.

brad
01-01-2013, 02:23 PM
How about comparing SuperBowl wins. How laughable is that stat?

In the end, all that matters is Super Bowls... however those aren't won by individuals, they are won by teams. If you are comparing individuals Brees > Eli. That is OK with me, we don't need the best QB to win the SB, we need the best team. Marino was arguably among the best that ever played the game, but he had no rings, so I am just fine with having Simms at QB over Marino in that era.

BuffyBlueII
01-01-2013, 02:25 PM
In the end, all that matters is Super Bowls... however those aren't won by individuals, they are won by teams. If you are comparing individuals Brees > Eli. That is OK with me, we don't need the best QB to win the SB, we need the best team. Marino was arguably among the best that ever played the game, but he had no rings, so I am just fine with having Simms at QB over Marino in that era.

Both times that we have won with Eli Manning, he had to bring us back in 4th quarter and he had to bail the defense out in both SuperBowls. He is the main reason we won them.

brad
01-01-2013, 02:36 PM
Both times that we have won with Eli Manning, he had to bring us back in 4th quarter and he had to bail the defense out in both SuperBowls. He is the main reason we won them.

No question, Eli has played games where he is absolutely phenomenal, although I would disagree that he was "bailing out the defense"... as bad as the defense has been in the regular season for the past two years, they were outstanding in the post season last year and going up against a great offense.

Back to Eli, yes he has great games, he also has games like the ones against Cincy and ATL where even his staunchest supporters would agree he was pretty bad. You will have to go back a long way to find a game where Brees played like Eli did in those games... and I doubt you will ever find a game where he did that multiple times in one year. I am all for supporting your favorite players, and if you choose to believe that Eli is the greatest QB of all time, good for you. For me, I choose to believe he is the best QB for this team, but can acknowledge that there are other great QBs in the league and that some might be better.

BuffyBlueII
01-01-2013, 02:50 PM
No question, Eli has played games where he is absolutely phenomenal, although I would disagree that he was "bailing out the defense"... as bad as the defense has been in the regular season for the past two years, they were outstanding in the post season last year and going up against a great offense.

Back to Eli, yes he has great games, he also has games like the ones against Cincy and ATL where even his staunchest supporters would agree he was pretty bad. You will have to go back a long way to find a game where Brees played like Eli did in those games... and I doubt you will ever find a game where he did that multiple times in one year. I am all for supporting your favorite players, and if you choose to believe that Eli is the greatest QB of all time, good for you. For me, I choose to believe he is the best QB for this team, but can acknowledge that there are other great QBs in the league and that some might be better.

I have never claimed that he is the best QB in NFL. He is a great fit for this team and he has been hindered due to our garbage OC. With a better OC and QB coach, Eli Manning becomes much better. That being stated, once again, the biggest blame in regard to the players for 2012 is Eli Manning. He should have fired up our offense and he should have addressed the issue of our garbage OC. Eli Manning is our leader and QB.

Our defense that played so “great” was in fact bailed out by Eli Manning and in part by Wes Welker in SuperBowl XLVI. Our “great” defense gave up 17 points in 21 minutes and if it weren’t for the fact that Eli Manning led the offense in a TOP oriented keep Tom Brady on the sidelines strategy that he executed brilliantly, we would have probably lost the game.

Roosevelt
01-01-2013, 03:02 PM
Both times that we have won with Eli Manning, he had to bring us back in 4th quarter and he had to bail the defense out in both SuperBowls. He is the main reason we won them.

I would never describe Eli's performance in the Super Bowls as bailing out anybody. Our defense came up big against one of the greatest offenses in the game.

Maybe you should re-watch the 4th quarter of SB XLII again. If anyone got bailed out in that game, it was Eli as Asante Samuel let that 'duck' bounce right off his fingers.

As a long time Giants fan, it puzzles me as to why you insist on trying to inflate Eli's career while taking shots at our defense. Sorry man, but you sound more like a distant cousin of Eli's and not a true Giants fan.

Buddy333
01-01-2013, 04:02 PM
Which shows how great Eli Manning truly is. He got advice from Peyton regularly during 2011 and IMO that was a huge difference. Lets just keep our fingers crossed that Eli Manning gets a good QB coach and a good OC this year.It shows he was better last year than this year.

GMenNFCBeasts
01-01-2013, 04:04 PM
Both times that we have won with Eli Manning, he had to bring us back in 4th quarter and he had to bail the defense out in both SuperBowls. He is the main reason we won them.Giants offense scored 3 points in the first 3 quarters to compete against the highest-scoring offense in NFL history in Super Bowl 42. Giants offense scored 13 points in 3 quarters in Super Bowl 46. The defense shutting down those Patriots offensive teams had nothing to do with the Giants beating the Patriots twice. It was all Eli.

Redeyejedi
01-01-2013, 04:19 PM
No question, Eli has played games where he is absolutely phenomenal, although I would disagree that he was "bailing out the defense"... as bad as the defense has been in the regular season for the past two years, they were outstanding in the post season last year and going up against a great offense.

Back to Eli, yes he has great games, he also has games like the ones against Cincy and ATL where even his staunchest supporters would agree he was pretty bad. You will have to go back a long way to find a game where Brees played like Eli did in those games... and I doubt you will ever find a game where he did that multiple times in one year. I am all for supporting your favorite players, and if you choose to believe that Eli is the greatest QB of all time, good for you. For me, I choose to believe he is the best QB for this team, but can acknowledge that there are other great QBs in the league and that some might be better. All Im saying was last year Eli Manning played much better than this season. I dont think Eli had a Top 10 QB season this year. I dont see the best QB's in the NFL have as many dreadful games in a season as Eli had this season. I dont get why people make excuses for him. When u get paid like Eli does he is expected to raise the level of his team I dont think Eli did that enough this season. That Falcon game he was putrid

Buddy333
01-01-2013, 04:31 PM
All Im saying was last year Eli Manning played much better than this season. I dont think Eli had a Top 10 QB season this year. I dont see the best QB's in the NFL have as many dreadful games in a season as Eli had this season. I dont get why people make excuses for him. When u get paid like Eli does he is expected to raise the level of his team I dont think Eli did that enough this season. That Falcon game he was putridAgree 100%. Been saying the same thing. Doesn't mean he can't come back next year and be better. He just didn't have a good season this year.