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View Full Version : Time to move Kiwi back to DE?



EliDaMANning
12-31-2012, 10:21 AM
It's time to part ways with Tuck and Osi. They've been great Giants and helped us win 2 SB. But it's time to move on as these guys are not the same players anymore. Kiwi needs to move back to his natural position.

slipknottin
12-31-2012, 10:27 AM
They will move Kiwi back, but Kiwi is only an average DE, they need to find another one.

Jahh
12-31-2012, 10:43 AM
This is what I assumed they would do.

radar-ray
12-31-2012, 10:46 AM
They will move Kiwi back, but Kiwi is only an average DE, they need to find another one. This.

Carter.525
12-31-2012, 10:55 AM
move Kiwi back to DE and take Margus Hunt in the 2nd..

EliDaMANning
12-31-2012, 11:04 AM
They will move Kiwi back, but Kiwi is only an average DE, they need to find another one.As long as an average DE can hold his own on run plays i'm fine with that.

DarkSaint
12-31-2012, 11:24 AM
He should have been playing DE this year I stead of watching Osi run himself out of the play. We need a good de on the opposite side of jpp sk tht he doesn't get doubled kr triple teamed.

slipknottin
12-31-2012, 11:25 AM
He should have been playing DE this year I stead of watching Osi run himself out of the play. We need a good de on the opposite side of jpp sk tht he doesn't get doubled kr triple teamed.

Kiwi was playing DL the entire game against the eagles. Dont think he played LB at all.

EliDaMANning
12-31-2012, 11:27 AM
Kiwi was playing DL the entire game against the eagles. Dont think he played LB at all.But he should be F/T DE on Osi's side every game. Osi is always 20 yards in the backfield for some reason.

slipknottin
12-31-2012, 11:31 AM
But he should be F/T DE on Osi's side every game. Osi is always 20 yards in the backfield for some reason.

JPP is the full time DE on Osi's side. Only reason they move JPP is because of Osi.

Kruunch
12-31-2012, 11:31 AM
They will move Kiwi back, but Kiwi is only an average DE, they need to find another one.

Disagree on the average part.

He's no Strahan, but he's been quietly one of the better DEs the Giants have had (when compared to snaps played at DE). I'd have no problem seeing JPP and Kiwi at the ends with Tuck coming in to sub on rotation. And Kiwi can play both DE spots well.

bigblue999
12-31-2012, 11:35 AM
They will move Kiwi back, but Kiwi is only an average DE, they need to find another one.

I agree, Kiwi never could take on a bigger tackle...but he was far better than OSI running 50 yards up field hoping to smack the hand of the QB on his way down.

bigblue999
12-31-2012, 11:37 AM
Disagree on the average part.

He's no Strahan, but he's been quietly one of the better DEs the Giants have had (when compared to snaps played at DE). I'd have no problem seeing JPP and Kiwi at the ends with Tuck coming in to sub on rotation. And Kiwi can play both DE spots well.

I don't think it matters if he's one of the better ones the giants have had...we need someone dominant at DE. He doesn't have the type of strength a JPP has. He's second string at best - and with an elite DE he's better off in a demarcus ware type role.

Jahh
12-31-2012, 11:43 AM
Since when do you need two elite defensive ends to win? You just need a solid player to compliment JPP.

Toadofsteel
12-31-2012, 11:43 AM
I want JPP and Kiwi as our startes, and Tracy/Ojomo taking rotational snaps and 3/4 DE sets...

slipknottin
12-31-2012, 11:44 AM
Since when do you need two elite defensive ends to win? You just need a solid player to compliment JPP.

Giants have always won by the strength of their pass rush.

Jahh
12-31-2012, 11:45 AM
Giants have always won by the strength of their pass rush.

Obviously that's a Giants priority but there are plenty of teams out there that don't win that way.

Redeyejedi
12-31-2012, 11:51 AM
Disagree on the average part.

He's no Strahan, but he's been quietly one of the better DEs the Giants have had (when compared to snaps played at DE). I'd have no problem seeing JPP and Kiwi at the ends with Tuck coming in to sub on rotation. And Kiwi can play both DE spots well. They still would need to add a edge rusher for passing downs.Have no problem with that set up on running downs. Without adding a significant pass rusher to this group the Defense will continue to suffer

slipknottin
12-31-2012, 11:54 AM
Obviously that's a Giants priority but there are plenty of teams out there that don't win that way.

Like who?

Toadofsteel
12-31-2012, 11:55 AM
They still would need to add a edge rusher for passing downs.Have no problem with that set up on running downs. Without adding a significant pass rusher to this group the Defense will continue to suffer

I think Ojomo could be that guy, if only he was given an actual chance...

Redeyejedi
12-31-2012, 11:56 AM
I think Ojomo could be that guy, if only he was given an actual chance... no u cant go into next season with that plan

gumby74
12-31-2012, 12:01 PM
IMO, we need more interior linemen. I'm sick of getting pushed 5 yards off the ball.

Jahh
12-31-2012, 12:01 PM
Like who?

Teams that don't have two elite defensive ends? I don't know. Almost everyone. When I think of nfc playoff teams this year, I don't think Packers, Skins, or Falcons have good pass rushes. If you are talking about consistent winners, I wouldn't say the Pats do.

BJacobs aka The Problem
12-31-2012, 12:02 PM
Think you guys are a little harsh on Kiwi. He's far better than average and I bet if he would have been able to stay at DE his whole career, none of you would even mention his play and average in the same sentence. If he's moved back to DE, he'd make a great compliment to JPP as both of them are very good against the run and very good pass rushers.

A lot of people forget, the season that Kiwi broke his leg(i believe the 2009 SB season), Kiwi was the leading in sacks at the time.

blu_buddha
12-31-2012, 12:07 PM
I agree, Kiwi never could take on a bigger tackle...but he was far better than OSI running 50 yards up field hoping to smack the hand of the QB on his way down.

I think he can put on some muscle and get stronger with out losing much speed in the offseason if he is going to be used at DE.

slipknottin
12-31-2012, 12:08 PM
Teams that don't have two elite defensive ends? I don't know. Almost everyone. When I think of nfc playoff teams this year, I don't think Packers, Skins, or Falcons have good pass rushes. If you are talking about consistent winners, I wouldn't say the Pats do.

All of them have two capable pass rushers.

Packers had Cullen Jenkins when they won who was great, and they just spent their 1st round pick on a guy to play opposite matthews.
Skins have two first round pass rushers too, but Orakpo is injured.

Falcons are really the only team in the playoffs who dont have a great pass rush. Abraham is a great rusher, but they have to scheme to get another guy after the QB.

slipknottin
12-31-2012, 12:08 PM
A lot of people forget, the season that Kiwi broke his leg(i believe the 2009 SB season), Kiwi was the leading in sacks at the time.

Half of his sacks came as a LB on blitzes. And it was only 4 sacks.

Jahh
12-31-2012, 12:12 PM
All of them have two capable pass rushers.

Packers had Cullen Jenkins when they won who was great, and they just spent their 1st round pick on a guy to play opposite matthews.
Skins have two first round pass rushers too, but Orakpo is injured.

Falcons are really the only team in the playoffs who dont have a great pass rush. Abraham is a great rusher, but they have to scheme to get another guy after the QB.

I agree with two capable but not two elite rushers. We just need someone formidable and I'm not sure Kiwi doesn't fit that. I'd actually want JPP paired up with more of a pure pass rusher than an all around DE.

TroyArcher
12-31-2012, 12:15 PM
I agree but I think Tuck will be back. Osi most likely gone as someone will over pay him, possibly the Jets.

BJacobs aka The Problem
12-31-2012, 12:21 PM
Half of his sacks came as a LB on blitzes. And it was only 4 sacks.

It was 4 sacks in 3 games. Also, during those 3 games, Osi only had 1, Canty .5 and Coefield had .5. Who knows what kind of year he might have had if he had been able to stay healthy.

Also at DE, Kiwi is able to get effective pressure on the QB. The sack is the tip of the iceberg and the flashiest stat, but pressuring the QB is just as effective. I know everyone has their own opinion, but mine has always been that Kiwi never got a fair shake with all the movement from DE to LB to DE. I've always thought that he's been an underrated piece on this team.

M00KIE
12-31-2012, 12:35 PM
I think Kiwi has been shafted. This LB nonsense has set him back as a DE I believe. If he had all this time progressing year in and year out as just a DE he's be much further alomg imo. But, spilled milk and all that...

radar-ray
12-31-2012, 01:00 PM
I think Kiwi has been shafted. This LB nonsense has set him back as a DE I believe. If he had all this time progressing year in and year out as just a DE he's be much further alomg imo. But, spilled milk and all that... Agree! Kiwi was screwed, but we had Strahan, Tuck and Osi when he came on board and then added JPP.