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View Full Version : No New Changes Needed at Coaching



Diamondring
12-31-2012, 12:34 PM
All we have to do is get the players for the coaches so they can perform the plays that is all. Giants should work on defense this year and maybe the O-line.

Moke
12-31-2012, 12:35 PM
I might agree on defense. Get some players for Fewell to work with.

Offense? Not much... we have a talented squad there. Gilbride is too inconsistent with play-calling.

M00KIE
12-31-2012, 12:37 PM
I hate changing OC/DC. It's very rare that it works out the first year. But sometimes it's a great change. Flip a coin.

brad
12-31-2012, 12:39 PM
I would disagree... the "read and react" defense that PF usually uses is giving me flashbacks to Rod Rust and the Ray Handley era. Anyone want to argue that Rust didn't have the talent to run a good defense? That was all on the scheme and I would argue that the defensive problems today are because of that same scheme.

BlueJayC
12-31-2012, 12:43 PM
The salary cap forces you to work with what players you have on your roster.......you can't afford to sign blue chips at every position so as coaches your game plans and preparations should reflect what personnel you have available ......I'm not buying that Fewell nor KG has done that......I think last year and this year the Giants got W's not because of those guys but in spite of them.

TroyArcher
12-31-2012, 12:45 PM
I am not a fan of PF but perhaps he learned something against the Eagles yesterday. He finally realized it is OK to mix in some blitzes when your D-line is not as good as advertised.

M00KIE
12-31-2012, 12:48 PM
I am not a fan of PF but perhaps he learned something against the Eagles yesterday. He finally realized it is OK to mix in some blitzes when your D-line is not as good as advertised.

Yeah, where the hell has that been?

Toadofsteel
12-31-2012, 12:49 PM
Yeah, where the hell has that been?

KP has been injured...

Kruunch
12-31-2012, 12:51 PM
I think the Giants need a little shake up.

Either a new DC or OC or both (I'd go with DC personally).

You could make a really strong argument for bringing in both Norv Turner and Lovie Smith to replace KG / PF.

gmen0820
12-31-2012, 12:53 PM
I think the Giants need a little shake up.

Either a new DC or OC or both (I'd go with DC personally).

You could make a really strong argument for bringing in both Norv Turner and Lovie Smith to replace KG / PF.If we fire Fewell because of his scheme, then Lovie isn't gonna be an adequate replacement.

Cloud57
12-31-2012, 12:55 PM
Will Tom still coach next year?

Moke
12-31-2012, 12:55 PM
Tom will. Obviously... he isn't the bad one IMO. I really think we should take a look at Norv

Diamondring
12-31-2012, 12:59 PM
The salary cap forces you to work with what players you have on your roster.......you can't afford to sign blue chips at every position so as coaches your game plans and preparations should reflect what personnel you have available ......I'm not buying that Fewell nor KG has done that......I think last year and this year the Giants got W's not because of those guys but in spite of them.I agree with you on what you have said about we can't get bluechips at every position but I'm not saying we should but work on defense and that can be anything like getting rid of some players, or add a couple of more pieces to the players we already have. Maybe even chaging the scheme some. Fewell's plays do work though. Even if we do get another DC, how do you know he might be good?

brad
12-31-2012, 12:59 PM
If we fire Fewell because of his scheme, then Lovie isn't gonna be an adequate replacement.

I could be wrong but Lovie doesn't use a "read and react" scheme...

Kruunch
12-31-2012, 01:06 PM
If we fire Fewell because of his scheme, then Lovie isn't gonna be an adequate replacement.

I disagree.

That's like saying why get rid of the Yugo for a Ferrari since they're both ... you know ... rear wheel drive cars.

Kruunch
12-31-2012, 01:07 PM
Will Tom still coach next year?

Tom will coach until kicked out of the building kicking and screaming or finally assassinated by Tiki Barber.

gmen0820
12-31-2012, 01:18 PM
I disagree.

That's like saying why get rid of the Yugo for a Ferrari since they're both ... you know ... rear wheel drive cars.Lovie Smith and Perry Fewell's philosophies are very similar. In large part, that's why Lovie wanted to hire Fewell in 2010 as his DC.

But now that I think of it, we aren't really firing Fewell since his contract is up. Further, considering that I respect Fewell as a DC, I wouldn't mind getting his mentor as our new DC.

joemorrisforprez
12-31-2012, 01:20 PM
I would disagree... the "read and react" defense that PF usually uses is giving me flashbacks to Rod Rust and the Ray Handley era. Anyone want to argue that Rust didn't have the talent to run a good defense? That was all on the scheme and I would argue that the defensive problems today are because of that same scheme.

Fewell needs to get his unit to a) rush the passer or b) cover.

Too many times this year, there was no pass rush, and no coverage, on the same play.

talbot
12-31-2012, 01:20 PM
I'd like to keep the staff for at least another year. The injuries really were detrimental on both sides of the ball. With a pass rush, Fewell's scheme is better. When the OL protects, the offense looks better.

KP and Nicks being hurt was huge, too.

Diamondring
12-31-2012, 01:23 PM
I'd like to keep the staff for at least another year. The injuries really were detrimental on both sides of the ball. With a pass rush, Fewell's scheme is better. When the OL protects, the offense looks better.

KP and Nicks being hurt was huge, too.By the bucketload. Plus Reuben wasn't a big threat we needed after MM left.

bearbryant
12-31-2012, 01:24 PM
Tom will coach until kicked out of the building kicking and screaming or finally assassinated by Tiki Barber.

Thats the real issue. Unless TC gets caught in mara's bedroom he will be here till 2020... And so will his OC&DC. What yesterday showed me is that even without talent changes both KG and PF have the ability to put the players in position to win. Things to be considered: Will they do that next year or will they go back to their initial philosophy that helped take us out of the tournament; and how open to change will the FO be in making changes in the roster to better this team

talbot
12-31-2012, 01:26 PM
By the bucketload. Plus Reuben wasn't a big threat we needed after MM left.

I thought Randle played admirably for a rookie coming out of a run heavy college, especially considering the complexity of the offense.

I think he'll contribute at a much higher level next season, especially if he follows the Cruz route and is at every Eli lead workout.

giantsforce
12-31-2012, 01:29 PM
I'd like to keep the staff for at least another year. The injuries really were detrimental on both sides of the ball. With a pass rush, Fewell's scheme is better. When the OL protects, the offense looks better.

KP and Nicks being hurt was huge, too.Get ready for the same results next year. Another collapse and no play offs. Bank it. Since they are keeping Coughlin, they will not bring any new coaches and they will not get any quality players due to the salary cap. As far as the draft goes, I sure they will draft a "not NFL ready" player again in the first round, while other teams 6th round picks tear another ******* on Fewell's D. Then Coughlin will have to tell us "Well, I usually figure it out myself, but this one is a little tougher than that." Really Tom? Did you ever watch film or paid attention at the game? How can you miss the atrocious play calling on offense and Fewell's D scheme that was full of holes? Or Webster being abused and nobody doing anything? Coughlin is part of the problem and certainly he is not part of the solution.

talbot
12-31-2012, 01:34 PM
Get ready for the same results next year. Another collapse and no play offs. Bank it. Since they are keeping Coughlin, they will not bring any new coaches and they will not get any quality players due to the salary cap. As far as the draft goes, I sure they will draft a "not NFL ready" player again in the first round, while other teams 6th round picks tear another ******* on Fewell's D. Then Coughlin will have to tell us "Well, I usually figure it out myself, but this one is a little tougher than that." Really Tom? Did you ever watch film or paid attention at the game? How can you miss the atrocious play calling on offense and Fewell's D scheme that was full of holes? Or Webster being abused and nobody doing anything? Coughlin is part of the problem and certainly he is not part of the solution.

The fact is, the Giants were a missed field goal away from being in the playoffs, if not winning the division. Players need to make plays. They lost to the Eagles/Skins by a combined 3 points. If there are 2 made field goals, we aren't having this conversation.

Playing on the road in Atlanta and Baltimore is very, very difficult. This team is never going to be 14-2, 13-3. The division is too tough and competitive for that to happen.

brad
12-31-2012, 01:40 PM
The fact is, the Giants were a missed field goal away from being in the playoffs, if not winning the division. Players need to make plays. They lost to the Eagles/Skins by a combined 3 points. If there are 2 made field goals, we aren't having this conversation.

Playing on the road in Atlanta and Baltimore is very, very difficult. This team is never going to be 14-2, 13-3. The division is too tough and competitive for that to happen.

The NFCE was far more difficult and competitive in the 80's and 90's... that didn't stop teams in the division from getting more than 9 wins, including the Giants. Yes, players need to make plays, but you could also argue that those games never should have come down to a field goal. I am not suggesting that the coaches all need to go, but I would like to see a change on the defense. I am also not a huge fan of KG, but he isn't going anywhere.

gmen0820
12-31-2012, 01:40 PM
The fact is, the Giants were a missed field goal away from being in the playoffs, if not winning the division. Players need to make plays. They lost to the Eagles/Skins by a combined 3 points. If there are 2 made field goals, we aren't having this conversation.

Playing on the road in Atlanta and Baltimore is very, very difficult. This team is never going to be 14-2, 13-3. The division is too tough and competitive for that to happen.Who's to say that the season plays out the same exact way if we beat Philly in week 4?

I hate when people get into scenarios like these.

BlueJayC
12-31-2012, 03:43 PM
I agree with you on what you have said about we can't get bluechips at every position but I'm not saying we should but work on defense and that can be anything like getting rid of some players, or add a couple of more pieces to the players we already have. Maybe even chaging the scheme some. Fewell's plays do work though. Even if we do get another DC, how do you know he might be good?

I don't but the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result.......I would love it if Fewell switched strategies and blitzed more often like he did towards the end of last year.....unfortunately this year he didn't.

YATittle1962
12-31-2012, 03:46 PM
I would disagree... the "read and react" defense that PF usually uses is giving me flashbacks to Rod Rust and the Ray Handley era. Anyone want to argue that Rust didn't have the talent to run a good defense? That was all on the scheme and I would argue that the defensive problems today are because of that same scheme.

when you have a great pass rush it is a highly affective defense

if the pass rush showed up at all this season everyone would be singing Fewells praises because his D would have looked completely different

DarkSaint
12-31-2012, 03:46 PM
We definitely need to make changes. I found this on Peter Kings column. Just brutal.

gmen0820
12-31-2012, 03:47 PM
We definitely need to make changes. I found this on Peter Kings column. Just brutal.Super Bowls

brad
12-31-2012, 04:03 PM
when you have a great pass rush it is a highly affective defense

if the pass rush showed up at all this season everyone would be singing Fewells praises because his D would have looked completely different

One needs only to look at last season to see that isn't true. The Giants had a great pass rush all season, but the defense wasn't exactly good until the playoffs, where they simplified the defense.

2011 rankings:
Points: 13th (21.5 per game)
Yards: 31st (383 per game)


The pass rush was certainly not a problem last year, but those numbers aren't exactly reminding anyone of the 85 Bears.

DarkSaint
12-31-2012, 04:22 PM
Super Bowls I'm happy with the superbowls but do we have a truly dominant team? I want to win 12-14 games a year and I really don't see that with this group of coaches.

TarheelKen
12-31-2012, 04:28 PM
By the bucketload. Plus Reuben wasn't a big threat we needed after MM left.

I disagree. He drew double coverage everytime he was positioned on the ends of the bench! (Wanted to type it in red but don't know how to do that.)

Down-lifer
12-31-2012, 04:28 PM
All we have to do is get the players for the coaches so they can perform the plays that is all. Giants should work on defense this year and maybe the O-line.i agree. We're not a broken team that needs to rebuild. We'll be right back in the mix of things next season.

ashleymarie
12-31-2012, 04:31 PM
I'm happy with the superbowls but do we have a truly dominant team? I want to win 12-14 games a year and I really don't see that with this group of coaches.

I don't see it either. But the coaches will stay. Giants org wants to win the SB next year in our own backyard. The best chance, they think, is to keep all intact.

brad
12-31-2012, 04:36 PM
I don't see it either. But the coaches will stay. Giants org wants to win the SB next year in our own backyard. The best chance, they think, is to keep all intact.

This may be the best argument I have heard for keeping the coaching staff intact. Not a big fan of PF but bringing in a new d-coord would cause disruptions and would take time for the players to adjust.

gmen0820
12-31-2012, 04:42 PM
I'm happy with the superbowls but do we have a truly dominant team? I want to win 12-14 games a year and I really don't see that with this group of coaches.Fair enough, eventually we will have a dominant team, with or without Coughlin.

Until then, I just hope Coughlin can keep on winning us SBs. Wether it's with a 9-7 team, or a 13-3 team isn't really important to me right now.

rtlax
12-31-2012, 04:51 PM
I agree, we get a run stopping big man and a capable O-line and this discussion isn't happening.

Dogg
12-31-2012, 05:59 PM
I'm happy with the superbowls but do we have a truly dominant team? I want to win 12-14 games a year and I really don't see that with this group of coaches. Does it matter if we win 12-14 games a year and lose in the playoffs? I don't think so.....Look at the Pats... they win 12-14 games a year and have come up short against us twice and I don't know what happened the other 3 seasons. As long as we get in and dominate, I'm happy. 2 Superbowls in 5 years is very good. Look at teams that have never won. Now they have a right to complain!
No

Toadofsteel
12-31-2012, 06:01 PM
Does it matter if we win 12-14 games a year and lose in the playoffs? I don't think so.....Look at the Pats... they win 12-14 games a year and have come up short against us twice and I don't know what happened the other 3 seasons. As long as we get in and dominate, I'm happy. 2 Superbowls in 5 years is very good. Look at teams that have never won. Now they have a right to complain!
No

Well they missed the playoffs at 11-5 the year Brady got hurt (2008). Then they lost to Sanchez... twice

NorwoodBlue
12-31-2012, 06:10 PM
i agree. We're not a broken team that needs to rebuild. We'll be right back in the mix of things next season.

In the first half of the season, then we'll choke big time the second half of the season and probably miss the playoffs. Nothing will change to eliminate the second half choke. You can't sit back and say nothing's broken when the pattern is super clear over the last nine years. The definition of insanity? Isn't it doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? So is the plan to just barely squeak into the playoffs and hope the team puts together a miracle run to the super bowl? That's already worked once more often than it ought to.

DarkSaint
12-31-2012, 06:36 PM
I don't see it either. But the coaches will stay. Giants org wants to win the SB next year in our own backyard. The best chance, they think, is to keep all intact. I agree that there is a learning curve but wasn't spags brought in after game 2 and we went on to win the superbowl ? I think that we have the talent and I really don't hate our coaches because I appreciate what they have done for our Giants but they have to re-evaluate their system and why they can only get our players to play when their backs are to the wall.

bigblue999
12-31-2012, 06:40 PM
All we have to do is get the players for the coaches so they can perform the plays that is all. Giants should work on defense this year and maybe the O-line.

This is non-sense....FEWELL has one of the most horrific def. game plans never pressuring the QB...never will produce a dominant def ... this is a sad day for Giants fans and I expect a complete failure next year....only bright spot is i hope next season we get a top 5 draft pick

talbot
12-31-2012, 06:56 PM
This is non-sense....FEWELL has one of the most horrific def. game plans never pressuring the QB...never will produce a dominant def ... this is a sad day for Giants fans and I expect a complete failure next year....only bright spot is i hope next season we get a top 5 draft pick

Don't be ridiculous. I agree that he should adjust a little better, but how can you not expect JPP, Tuck, Osi, Joseph, Canty, and Kiwi not get to the QB? How do you explain them not winning 1v1 match ups?

Some of you people are absolutely absurd.

Giant stuck in Texas
12-31-2012, 07:19 PM
I disagree.

That's like saying why get rid of the Yugo for a Ferrari since they're both ... you know ... rear wheel drive cars.

Anything could happen....
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h88/imerjauto/yugo2_zps1050220b.jpg

Harooni
12-31-2012, 07:22 PM
correction coaching changes needed but will not be done. not a year out from a SB.

jaxnygmen
12-31-2012, 07:23 PM
I agree with brad's post. This defensive scheme is not that good. we can not wait on a read and react. We will continue to get carved apart no matter who we have.

Diamondring
01-01-2013, 09:12 AM
correction coaching changes needed but will not be done. not a year out from a SB.I really doubt that the Giants would still be in the playoffs with different coaches.

RoanokeFan
01-01-2013, 09:38 AM
I really doubt that the Giants would still be in the playoffs with different coaches.

I agree.

nhpgiantsfan
01-01-2013, 09:51 AM
I really doubt that the Giants would still be in the playoffs with different coaches.

Agreed. The problem with this defense is talent.

We have ONE big time player on defense. JPP! The rest of the unit is bad or average at best.

Prince looks like he may become a big time CB, but he's not there yet.

Linval is decent but nothing special.

Stevie deserves credit for all the picks but he is not a star.

And the whole LB corps is bad..

JesseJames
01-01-2013, 11:31 AM
TC said in an interview that there would be no coaching changes, so apparently the feeling in the front office is that the problems the team had all season long is 100% on the players, nothing new there we've heard this same theory since forever...

DarkSaint
01-01-2013, 11:40 AM
You know what I didn't see on Sunday that leads me to hope that next year might be different.I didn't see run, run, corner fade and FG. Who knows? Maybe old dogs can learn new tricks.

Red Dog
01-01-2013, 12:07 PM
If no new coaches are needed, just players to do what they want done, then why is there Black Monday as was yesterday when 7 coaches got the heave-hoe. My concern with the current staff is that the team collapses for a period of time each year and this year was no different. Eli goes backward, the offenses stutters and stops, and the defense wanders through some games like they aren't there and this coaching staff admittedly says thry don't know why. Perhaps we need a couple of new coaching positions Offensive Psychiatric and Psychological Issues and Memory Coach for defense to help them remember what they are supposed to dso for 16 + games each year, and Awareness Sensibility Coach for the coaches to be aware of player changes such has, "I'm so mentally tired"