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sewy18
12-31-2012, 11:48 AM
Our offense is solid ...

We have so many good wide receivers.
Our tight ends are good
Our running game is pretty solid if we have Adre Brown / Bradshaw maybe even Wilson thrown in there.
Our Offensive line needs help ,but can be fixed.

Now our defense:

Our Dline is non-existent ...Tuck and Osi are tired of playing football and should leave ?
Our CB ...Prince,Webster,Hosley could do alot better
Our Linebackers give up 200 yards rushing a game and cant tackle @$$@$
Our safeties pretty are solid though no complaints.

Moke
12-31-2012, 11:50 AM
Defense is a problem we need to address with draft and signings. We never are healthy there and that costs us. Plus, we have aging players.

Offense is talented, but we need changes in the coaching.

RoanokeFan
12-31-2012, 11:52 AM
There are problems in two of the three phases of the team. Both the offenes and defense need to be tended to.

Joe Morrison
12-31-2012, 11:53 AM
LINEBACKERS

Sarcasman
12-31-2012, 12:01 PM
Our offense is solid ...

We have so many good wide receivers.
Our tight ends are good
Our running game is pretty solid if we have Adre Brown / Bradshaw maybe even Wilson thrown in there.
Our Offensive line needs help ,but can be fixed.

Now our defense:

Our Dline is non-existent ...Tuck and Osi are tired of playing football and should leave ?
Our CB ...Prince,Webster,Hosley could do alot better
Our Linebackers give up 200 yards rushing a game and cant tackle @$$@$
Our safeties pretty are solid though no complaints.


Not true. Both are problems and the offense - whether it is execution or talent - needs fixing. Part of their job is to extend drives keeping the defense off the field and put up points. They didn't do either successfully this year.

GameTime
12-31-2012, 12:04 PM
how could you even say the problem is only defense..
4th most trips into the RedZone and like 25th in TDs.....

Cloud57
12-31-2012, 12:09 PM
Our defense is old, slow, and injured. If this doesn't get fixed in the offseason we'll have another collapse and miss the playoffs.

Drez
12-31-2012, 12:09 PM
There are problems in two of the three phases of the team. Both the offenes and defense need to be tended to.

Offensively, we just need to build a solid line. The OL just hasn't been up to par the past few years. Last year we were lucky enough to make it work, this year not so much. If you take a look at the games where we've gotten decent line play (and by decent I mean at least average), we've looked fairly dominant. When they've struggled, we haven't played so well.

Defensively, I think it's a mix between under-performance by several players (namely those on the DL and CB) and scheme. PF can call a good game every once in a while, but he often tries to be too cute, like the 4-4 he ran a lot against Baltimore. We have a lot of needs to address on that side of the ball, which includes the DC.

Toadofsteel
12-31-2012, 12:09 PM
Defense can be salvaged. Maybe a Free Agent linebacker.

Offense is mostly good, except for the o-line. We need to spend all seven draft picks on the o-line. Only Beatty's job should be safe. Locklear MAYBE, if he recovers well from that nasty injury...

brad
12-31-2012, 12:10 PM
Our offense is solid ...

We have so many good wide receivers.
Our tight ends are good
Our running game is pretty solid if we have Adre Brown / Bradshaw maybe even Wilson thrown in there.
Our Offensive line needs help ,but can be fixed.

Now our defense:

Our Dline is non-existent ...Tuck and Osi are tired of playing football and should leave ?
Our CB ...Prince,Webster,Hosley could do alot better
Our Linebackers give up 200 yards rushing a game and cant tackle @$$@$
Our safeties pretty are solid though no complaints.

I would disagree, the defense is definitely a problem, you could argue scheme or players, or maybe a combination of the two. Personally I think the "read and react" is more of the problem than the players, the players quit, just like they did with Rod Rust because the scheme is horrible. You would have a hard time convincing anyone that Rust didn't have the talent, and I believe we have a similar situation today.

The offense also has some serious problems, they are extremely inconsistent, they can score at will in some games and the next go three and out on almost every possession.

Cloud57
12-31-2012, 12:11 PM
Defense can be salvaged. Maybe a Free Agent linebacker.

Offense is mostly good, except for the o-line. We need to spend all seven draft picks on the o-line. Only Beatty's job should be safe. Locklear MAYBE, if he recovers well from that nasty injury...A Free agent linebacker is just a temporary fix.

Moke
12-31-2012, 12:11 PM
Defense can be salvaged. Maybe a Free Agent linebacker.

Offense is mostly good, except for the o-line. We need to spend all seven draft picks on the o-line. Only Beatty's job should be safe. Locklear MAYBE, if he recovers well from that nasty injury...

How is our offense good? Our red-zone offense is garbage. What do you recommend fixing there? I'm curious. People aren't blaming the play-calling, but then people really can't find a good reason why the red-zone offense is so bad.

Drez
12-31-2012, 12:11 PM
Not true. Both are problems and the offense - whether it is execution or talent - needs fixing. Part of their job is to extend drives keeping the defense off the field and put up points. They didn't do either successfully this year.
And I think that points more towards OL play and Nicks/Bradshaw being banged up most of the year.

However, I think the bigger issue on this team is on the defensive side of the ball and not the offensive.

Drez
12-31-2012, 12:17 PM
How is our offense good? Our red-zone offense is garbage. What do you recommend fixing there? I'm curious. People aren't blaming the play-calling, but then people really can't find a good reason why the red-zone offense is so bad.
The RZ issues fall to the line and guys not winning their 1-1 match-ups. We lack a consistent push on short yardage situations which makes it hard to run inside the 10 (which also means that defenses can devote more attention to coverage making it even more difficult to pass on the short field). With spotty pass protection, plays aren't allowed to develop long enough for a receiver to get open if he doesn't win his route off the line.

Also, there have been plenty of times this season where guys that could have made a play just flat out haven't (including Eli). How many fades have you seen go off the finger tips of Nicks this season (I'm recalling at least 5 off the top of my head)? There were several times that Eli made the wrong read on which guy to throw it to or threw an errant pass.

Offensively, it has come down more to execution this season than anything schematically wrong with the offense. I'm of the mind that if we can improve our OL the offense will become truly dominant.

Moke
12-31-2012, 12:20 PM
The RZ issues fall to the line and guys not winning their 1-1 match-ups. We lack a consistent push on short yardage situations which makes it hard to run inside the 10 (which also means that defenses can devote more attention to coverage making it even more difficult to pass on the short field). With spotty pass protection, plays aren't allowed to develop long enough for a receiver to get open if he doesn't win his route off the line.

Also, there have been plenty of times this season where guys that could have made a play just flat out haven't (including Eli). How many fades have you seen go off the finger tips of Nicks this season (I'm recalling at least 5 off the top of my head)? There were several times that Eli made the wrong read on which guy to throw it to or threw an errant pass.

Offensively, it has come down more to execution this season than anything schematically wrong with the offense. I'm of the mind that if we can improve our OL the offense will become truly dominant.

Good point. Fair enough +1

Diamondring
12-31-2012, 12:21 PM
Defense is a problem we need to address with draft and signings. We never are healthy there and that costs us. Plus, we have aging players.

Offense is talented, but we need changes in the coaching.I think that a different OC is not necessary cause if we can get some O-linemen who can plow over defenders and pass block well, then we can do wonders with KG.

Drez
12-31-2012, 12:21 PM
Good point. Fair enough +1
Ask and ye shall receive. :cool:

Moke
12-31-2012, 12:23 PM
I think that a different OC is not necessary cause if we can get some O-linemen who can plow over defenders and pass block well, then we can do wonders with KG.

Sure, maybe... but why do we do so well in some games and then we don't the other games? I can see the patterns with the offensive-line for sure, but what about the play-calling? Even outside the red-zone, the play-calling seems way off.

joemorrisforprez
12-31-2012, 12:24 PM
When the Giants scored 21+ points, they were 9-0, and when they didn't, they were 0-7.

That tells me the defense is not good enough to bail out the offense when it struggles.

The defense at times was trampled....and stopping the run is the primary job of the linebackers.
The offense struggled at times because the offensive line had problems with pass protection and run blocking.

Eli had some rough patches too.....but that is exactly when the defense and running game needs to step the **** up...... and I don't recall a single loss where the defense or run game showed up.

Reese needs to restock the offensive line and the linebacker positions.....these were areas that many fans were concerned about last season......it shouldn't surprise anyone that the team failed to improve on it's 9-7 record when the two biggest areas of concern were not addressed.

Drez
12-31-2012, 12:26 PM
Sure, maybe... but why do we do so well in some games and then we don't the other games? I can see the patterns with the offensive-line for sure, but what about the play-calling? Even outside the red-zone, the play-calling seems way off.

Is it the play calling or the execution? I'm not saying KG is the best OC that ever lived, however I do believe that he's a top OC in the NFL. Things look a lot different when the guys on the field win their match-ups, which they didn't do enough of this season. Especially with Nicks banged up most of the year, none of our other guys really stepped up to fill his role to take any heat off of Cruz.

Drez
12-31-2012, 12:28 PM
When the Giants scored 21+ points, they were 9-0, and when they didn't, they were 0-7.

That tells me the defense is not good enough to bail out the offense when it struggles.

Reese needs to restock the offensive line and the linebacker positions.....these were areas that many fans were concerned about last season......it shouldn't surprise anyone that the team failed to improve on it's 9-7 record when the two biggest areas of concern were not addressed.
I don't even think that LB is that big of a concern, even though we do need some upgrade there. Webster just flat out got abused all season. I was a big Webster guy before this year, but he sucked this season. Big time. I think we need another pass rusher and another outside corner before we need another LB. Hell, I wouldn't even mind another DT before getting a LB.

brad
12-31-2012, 12:29 PM
The RZ issues fall to the line and guys not winning their 1-1 match-ups. We lack a consistent push on short yardage situations which makes it hard to run inside the 10 (which also means that defenses can devote more attention to coverage making it even more difficult to pass on the short field). With spotty pass protection, plays aren't allowed to develop long enough for a receiver to get open if he doesn't win his route off the line.

Also, there have been plenty of times this season where guys that could have made a play just flat out haven't (including Eli). How many fades have you seen go off the finger tips of Nicks this season (I'm recalling at least 5 off the top of my head)? There were several times that Eli made the wrong read on which guy to throw it to or threw an errant pass.

Offensively, it has come down more to execution this season than anything schematically wrong with the offense. I'm of the mind that if we can improve our OL the offense will become truly dominant.

You make some good points, however I will try to dispute a few. I agree that the O-line is an issue in the run game, they are not getting a consistent push especially in short situations. And.. that does cause issues in the red zone. However, I believe that the inconsistencies are as much on the scheme as the players.

Defenses are using press coverage against our receivers, and up until yesterday, little was done to counter that. A few quick slants and suddenly the corners backed up a little. They also made no effort to get the backs into the passing game, yesterday they did and it paid off. Players have to execute, but it is up to the coaches to put them in the best situation to execute. Far too often this year they seemed more inclined to keep trying the same things even if the defense had an answer each time. Yesterday, that changed.

Moke
12-31-2012, 12:30 PM
Is it the play calling or the execution? I'm not saying KG is the best OC that ever lived, however I do believe that he's a top OC in the NFL. Things look a lot different when the guys on the field win their match-ups, which they didn't do enough of this season. Especially with Nicks banged up most of the year, none of our other guys really stepped up to fill his role to take any heat off of Cruz.

Not sure man. There were so many instances where KG had the most questionable play-calling ever. I feel like we were perfect yesterday and on par with the play-calling. I felt like we were running more slots with VC and then we saw a few plays where Wilson and Bradshaw had a few catches in front of the line if scrimmage.

Those were a bit more creative and different than what KG usually calls.

talbot
12-31-2012, 12:31 PM
The problem, on both sides of the ball, is in the trenches. If the OL had some push, the redzone issues wouldn't be as problematic.

On defense, if the pass rush was consistent, as it was last season, the defensive backs would look a lot better. Webster's issue is getting beat deep. if the pass rush is there, there is no way in hell he looks as bad as he did. He's played really well in 3 out of the last 5 seasons (08, 10, 11). What do those years have in common? A pass rush. When he played like crap (09, 12), what wasn't there? A pass rush.

Sure, players need to win their 1v1 match ups, but the game is decided in the trenches.

joemorrisforprez
12-31-2012, 12:33 PM
Is it the play calling or the execution? I'm not saying KG is the best OC that ever lived, however I do believe that he's a top OC in the NFL. Things look a lot different when the guys on the field win their match-ups, which they didn't do enough of this season. Especially with Nicks banged up most of the year, none of our other guys really stepped up to fill his role to take any heat off of Cruz.

Gilbride deserves criticism. Among many other things, he was too little and too late in terms of Wilson and Randle....he leaned too heavily on beaten up vets like Bradshaw and Nicks.

As far as Fewell is concerned, he lacks a killer instinct on 3rd down. I'm not sure what he was watching out there in 2012, but it was painfully obvious that his 4 man pass rush was simply ineffective. I blame the players for that - Tuck and Osi failed this team this season - but dammit, stop going to a dry well.

Drez
12-31-2012, 12:42 PM
Not sure man. There were so many instances where KG had the most questionable play-calling ever. I feel like we were perfect yesterday and on par with the play-calling. I felt like we were running more slots with VC and then we saw a few plays where Wilson and Bradshaw had a few catches in front of the line if scrimmage.

Those were a bit more creative and different than what KG usually calls.
And using the backs in the passing game is a reflection that they weren't needed in pass pro like they usually are. It's hard to get the backs involved in the passing game if you need to rely on them as pass protectors, which is very frequently the case for us.

And sometimes, the questionable playcalling is more a questionable decision by Eli. I'm sure on those 3-1's where Eli goes deep that deep routes are the only ones called (though YA did find one instance where all the routes were relatively deep). Also, when he goes deep in those situations it may be because all the shorter routes are covered up.

Though I'm just guessing here, I'd wager most of the shotgun draws are audibled into by Eli at the line if he sees the defense playing 2-deep or a softer defense in the middle.

My main point is that the playcalling always looks better when the guys on the field are executing it properly.

Drez
12-31-2012, 12:44 PM
Gilbride deserves criticism. Among many other things, he was too little and too late in terms of Wilson and Randle....he leaned too heavily on beaten up vets like Bradshaw and Nicks.

As far as Fewell is concerned, he lacks a killer instinct on 3rd down. I'm not sure what he was watching out there in 2012, but it was painfully obvious that his 4 man pass rush was simply ineffective. I blame the players for that - Tuck and Osi failed this team this season - but dammit, stop going to a dry well.

How do you know that Wilson or Randle would have performed as well earlier in the season as they had later? Is it entirely impossible to believe that they just weren't quite ready to shoulder a larger role?

Diamondring
12-31-2012, 12:45 PM
Sure, maybe... but why do we do so well in some games and then we don't the other games? I can see the patterns with the offensive-line for sure, but what about the play-calling? Even outside the red-zone, the play-calling seems way off.it could be a lot of things but one of them is the competition. They have their players to.

Drez
12-31-2012, 12:48 PM
You make some good points, however I will try to dispute a few. I agree that the O-line is an issue in the run game, they are not getting a consistent push especially in short situations. And.. that does cause issues in the red zone. However, I believe that the inconsistencies are as much on the scheme as the players. Such as? Give some examples.


Defenses are using press coverage against our receivers, and up until yesterday, little was done to counter that. A few quick slants and suddenly the corners backed up a little. Umm... Isn't press coverage exactly what you need to do to disrupt a slant? Jam the receiver off the line so he can't get into his route right away allowing another defender to take away the passing lane?
They also made no effort to get the backs into the passing game, yesterday they did and it paid off. How much of that is because we need to rely on our backs in pass protection because we can't adequately block up front?
Players have to execute, but it is up to the coaches to put them in the best situation to execute. Far too often this year they seemed more inclined to keep trying the same things even if the defense had an answer each time. Yesterday, that changed. Did it really change or did the players just play better?

joemorrisforprez
12-31-2012, 01:30 PM
How do you know that Wilson or Randle would have performed as well earlier in the season as they had later? Is it entirely impossible to believe that they just weren't quite ready to shoulder a larger role?

I can only base my opinion on what I saw on the field. However, all comments I read from players in practice indicate Wilson was blowing doors as well.

Drez
12-31-2012, 01:53 PM
I can only base my opinion on what I saw on the field. However, all comments I read from players in practice indicate Wilson was blowing doors as well.
Being able to run fast in practice is different than being able to execute all aspects of the offense during a real game. As we saw even just a couple of weeks ago his pass protection still needs a fair amount of work. Seeing as we need our backs to pass pro so much (particularly since any play can be run or pass and our OL is generally poor), it very well could have been more detrimental to have him out there more.

We didn't have that problem against Philly because they couldn't generate much of a pass rush so we were able utilize him more.

joemorrisforprez
12-31-2012, 01:58 PM
Being able to run fast in practice is different than being able to execute all aspects of the offense during a real game. As we saw even just a couple of weeks ago his pass protection still needs a fair amount of work. Seeing as we need our backs to pass pro so much (particularly since any play can be run or pass and our OL is generally poor), it very well could have been more detrimental to have him out there more.

We didn't have that problem against Philly because they couldn't generate much of a pass rush so we were able utilize him more.

I saw a rookie who wasn't perfect in pass protection, but who was a spark on offense and special teams.

I saw a coaching staff that refused to give him the ball during a critical stretch.....and are now out of the playoffs.

brad
12-31-2012, 02:16 PM
Umm... Isn't press coverage exactly what you need to do to disrupt a slant? Jam the receiver off the line so he can't get into his route right away allowing another defender to take away the passing lane? How much of that is because we need to rely on our backs in pass protection because we can't adequately block up front? Did it really change or did the players just play better?

Press coverage is used to jam receivers and disrupt timing, slants are used to help get the receiver off the line with little pushing back and forth between the receiver and CB as they try to go upfield.



how much of that is because we need to rely on our backs in pass protection because we can't adequately block up front?

If the pass is getting out in 2-3 seconds, the pass rush isn't an issue, that's the reason for the quick passes to begin with. Teams do it to the Giants D all the time.



Did it really change or did the players just play better?

Or... did the players play better because it changed? If you didn't notice a change in the plays called I don't know what to tell you. In this game the deep passes were set up because they established the short passing game and negated any pass rush the Eagles might have tried to bring.

gmen46
12-31-2012, 02:37 PM
Being able to run fast in practice is different than being able to execute all aspects of the offense during a real game. As we saw even just a couple of weeks ago his pass protection still needs a fair amount of work. Seeing as we need our backs to pass pro so much (particularly since any play can be run or pass and our OL is generally poor), it very well could have been more detrimental to have him out there more.

We didn't have that problem against Philly because they couldn't generate much of a pass rush so we were able utilize him more.

Keep up the good fight, Drez. I see much logical, rational, thinking in your responses in this thread, as well as reflections of what the coaches have stated regarding these same issues (the development of Wilson as one example).

Unfortunately, you are debating with the same few who love their trees too much--as in, the inability to see the forest for the trees--and who will never willingly give up on those trees. They're too tempting and juicy.

Drez
12-31-2012, 03:11 PM
Press coverage is used to jam receivers and disrupt timing, slants are used to help get the receiver off the line with little pushing back and forth between the receiver and CB as they try to go upfield. Right, and if the defender is able to get his hands on the receiver he blows up the slant. Playing off of a slanting receiver allows him to get into his route, unless the CB is playing inside leverage, which then leaves the outside open for exploitation.



If the pass is getting out in 2-3 seconds, the pass rush isn't an issue, that's the reason for the quick passes to begin with. Teams do it to the Giants D all the time. And as I've mentioned before (possibly not this thread) if the receivers aren't winning their routes off the LoS, then the play falls apart. It doesn't matter if the play is designed to be a quick pass if the receiver isn't in a position to receive it because he hasn't won his 1-1 off the line.



Or... did the players play better because it changed? If you didn't notice a change in the plays called I don't know what to tell you. In this game the deep passes were set up because they established the short passing game and negated any pass rush the Eagles might have tried to bring. And in this game, the wind was a serious issue. We didn't press the ball down the field as much as usual because the weather didn't dictate it. So, we went with more measured shots. The deep passing game also works a lot better when the OL is opening lanes in the running game, so the defense can't just sit back and take away that deep balls, so that played into the success of the deep passes. You also just saw guys flat out win their battles. Take for instance Randle's 2nd TD. The defender (I believe Aso) had decent position, but Randle just flat out went up and got the pass. The playcalling wasn't very much different than normal, but the guys just flat out played better..

Drez
12-31-2012, 03:13 PM
Keep up the good fight, Drez. I see much logical, rational, thinking in your responses in this thread, as well as reflections of what the coaches have stated regarding these same issues (the development of Wilson as one example).

Unfortunately, you are debating with the same few who love their trees too much--as in, the inability to see the forest for the trees--and who will never willingly give up on those trees. They're too tempting and juicy.
I know it's pointless. When the offense does well it's in spite of KG. When they do poorly, is all on KG. It's like arguing with a conspiracy theorist. Any piece of data that doesn't fit their belief they disregard out of hand as being part of the conspiracy.

joemorrisforprez
12-31-2012, 03:52 PM
I know it's pointless. When the offense does well it's in spite of KG. When they do poorly, is all on KG. It's like arguing with a conspiracy theorist. Any piece of data that doesn't fit their belief they disregard out of hand as being part of the conspiracy.

I disagree. I think Gilbride deserves criticism.

This is a 9-7 team that is outside of the playoffs because there were a few games when the offense simply didn't show up.

The entire team - coaches and players - should be asking themselves what went wrong.

In my opinion, there is alot of blame to go around. For one thing, this team leaned too hard on run-down vets, and neglected rookies when injuries hit.

There were a few losses that we just more brutal than others....

Philly game: The idiotic pass play to Barden when the Giants were already in FG range....the penalty pushed the FG outside of Tynes weak leg.

Redskins game: Redskins pass defense was completely helpless......but Killdrive snatches defeat from the jaws of victory by avoiding the Redskins Achilles Heel and instead going run-heavy. Jerry Reese's policy of dumpster-diving for linebackers is exposed as the Redskins trample the Giants run defense.

Cincy: A complete no-show by pretty much everyone.

Pittsburgh: Killdrive and Fewell combine to brainfart their way from a 10 point late game lead to a deflating loss.

Atlanta: Killdrive introduces Giants fans to his "Lumpkin Attack".

Baltimore: Wilson scores to make the game 14-7....Killdrive, sensing how dangerous Wilson might be, decides to replace him with Bradshaw, who rides in from the sidelines on a Rascal. The offense promptly disappears with Wilson and the game quickly becomes a rout.

jakegibbs
12-31-2012, 03:57 PM
Our offense is solid ...

We have so many good wide receivers.
Our tight ends are good
Our running game is pretty solid if we have Adre Brown / Bradshaw maybe even Wilson thrown in there.
Our Offensive line needs help ,but can be fixed.

Now our defense:

Our Dline is non-existent ...Tuck and Osi are tired of playing football and should leave ?
Our CB ...Prince,Webster,Hosley could do alot better
Our Linebackers give up 200 yards rushing a game and cant tackle @$$@$
Our safeties pretty are solid though no complaints.

The problem with is our offense especially in the WR department. They just didn't perform up to the bar they set in the 2011 season. If they did we'd be playoff bound right now book it.

jomo
12-31-2012, 03:59 PM
Main problem is our OL. It is B grade at best, it is aging and our lack of depth is frightening.

brad
12-31-2012, 04:00 PM
Press coverage is used to jam receivers and disrupt timing, slants are used to help get the receiver off the line with little pushing back and forth between the receiver and CB as they try to go upfield. Right, and if the defender is able to get his hands on the receiver he blows up the slant. Playing off of a slanting receiver allows him to get into his route, unless the CB is playing inside leverage, which then leaves the outside open for exploitation.



If the pass is getting out in 2-3 seconds, the pass rush isn't an issue, that's the reason for the quick passes to begin with. Teams do it to the Giants D all the time. And as I've mentioned before (possibly not this thread) if the receivers aren't winning their routes off the LoS, then the play falls apart. It doesn't matter if the play is designed to be a quick pass if the receiver isn't in a position to receive it because he hasn't won his 1-1 off the line.



Or... did the players play better because it changed? If you didn't notice a change in the plays called I don't know what to tell you. In this game the deep passes were set up because they established the short passing game and negated any pass rush the Eagles might have tried to bring. And in this game, the wind was a serious issue. We didn't press the ball down the field as much as usual because the weather didn't dictate it. So, we went with more measured shots. The deep passing game also works a lot better when the OL is opening lanes in the running game, so the defense can't just sit back and take away that deep balls, so that played into the success of the deep passes. You also just saw guys flat out win their battles. Take for instance Randle's 2nd TD. The defender (I believe Aso) had decent position, but Randle just flat out went up and got the pass. The playcalling wasn't very much different than normal, but the guys just flat out played better.

Got it... so the players are bad and the coaches are great. That directly contradicts "When you draft like Jerry Reese, you don't need to spend like Daniel Snyder.". I am not one of those that calls KG "Killdrive", but I am also not one that believes that he is infallible. The collapse this season is not all on the players, coaches must also answer the question "why?". Maybe I just don't know football, as several on here want to suggest, but I have a hard time believing that 52 guys forgot how to play football for a 6 week span over at least considering the possibility that maybe, just maybe, teams learned how to scheme against what the Giants were doing and the coaches didn't make adjustments.

Drez
12-31-2012, 04:01 PM
I disagree. I think Gilbride deserves criticism.

This is a 9-7 team that is outside of the playoffs because there were a few games when the offense simply didn't show up.

The entire team - coaches and players - should be asking themselves what went wrong.

In my opinion, there is alot of blame to go around. For one thing, this team leaned too hard on run-down vets, and neglected rookies when injuries hit.

There were a few losses that we just more brutal than others....

Philly game: The idiotic pass play to Barden when the Giants were already in FG range....the penalty pushed the FG outside of Tynes weak leg.

Redskins game: Redskins pass defense was completely helpless......but Killdrive snatches defeat from the jaws of victory by avoiding the Redskins Achilles Heel and instead going run-heavy. Jerry Reese's policy of dumpster-diving for linebackers is exposed as the Redskins trample the Giants run defense.

Cincy: A complete no-show by pretty much everyone.

Pittsburgh: Killdrive and Fewell combine to brainfart their way from a 10 point 4th quarter lead to a deflating loss.

Atlanta: Killdrive introduces Giants fans to his "Lumpkin Attack".

Baltimore: Wilson scores to make the game 14-7....Killdrive, sensing how dangerous Wilson might be, decides to replace him with Bradshaw, who rides in from the sidelines on a Rascal. The offense promptly disappears with Wilson for the rest of the game.
And you know that Eli didn't check into that pass in Philly how?

We gained nearly 100 yards rushing in the first half alone against the Skins the second time around. And we were 3/13 on deep throws against that ****ty Washington pass defense. I think the defense allowing Washington to hold the ball for nearly the entire 4Q had more to do with that loss than absolutely anything KG did. Hard to score the ball if your offense is on the sidelines.

Cincy, like you said, absolutely everyone is to blame. That was one of two games I couldn't bear to watch after listening to them on the radio at work. However, from what I recall, the OL played like **** (wasn't Eli sacked 5 times that game?), and I know for a fact we very frequently leave in extra blockers, so it wasn't like we weren't trying to give the OL help. From what I could tell, Eli just flat out played like crap too that game. However, as seeing I didn't watch it, I can't say for certain how much of that was because he was under duress much of the game. The defense was absolutely horrible that game, too.

Pittsburgh, again offensively, more of it was execution and not game plan. And the defense should be able to easily defend a 10 point lead.

Atlanta, the entire team **** the bed.

Baltimore, the defense didn't allow the offense to even attempt a normal game plan after the 1Q. The OL was a complete disaster. Hard to get anything going when you get down big early and the OL can't block.

Drez
12-31-2012, 04:07 PM
Got it... so the players are bad and the coaches are great. That directly contradicts "When you draft like Jerry Reese, you don't need to spend like Daniel Snyder.". I am not one of those that calls KG "Killdrive", but I am also not one that believes that he is infallible. The collapse this season is not all on the players, coaches must also answer the question "why?". Maybe I just don't know football, as several on here want to suggest, but I have a hard time believing that 52 guys forgot how to play football for a 6 week span over at least considering the possibility that maybe, just maybe, teams learned how to scheme against what the Giants were doing and the coaches didn't make adjustments.
No, we have good players that played poorly/inconsistently this season, starting with both the OL and DL.

Everything we do on defense is predicated on the DL being able to generate pressure, which they were wont to do this season. If you notice, the games the DL were able to dominate this year were (for the most part) our best defensive performances.

The OL was wildly inconsistent and played poorly most of the season. With Nicks unhealthy all season, no one was able to step up with any consistency to help take the pressure off of Cruz. Combined with the spotty OL play, very often if a receiver didn't win his route off the LoS, plays weren't able to develop long enough for them to get open or Eli was forced to throw an early ball or throw it away. Not to mention, Eli was uncharacteristically off with his deep balls this season. There were many times when he either put a little too much or too little on them which caused us to miss some of the big play opportunities that we had.

brad
12-31-2012, 04:10 PM
No, we have good players that played poorly/inconsistently this season, starting with both the OL and DL.

Everything we do on defense is predicated on the DL being able to generate pressure, which they were wont to do this season. If you notice, the games the DL were able to dominate this year were (for the most part) our best defensive performances.

The OL was wildly inconsistent and played poorly most of the season. With Nicks unhealthy all season, no one was able to step up with any consistency to help take the pressure off of Cruz. Combined with the spotty OL play, very often if a receiver didn't win his route off the LoS, plays weren't able to develop long enough for them to get open or Eli was forced to throw an early ball or throw it away.

The defensive line created all kinds of pressure last year, yet still ranked 31st in yards and 13th in points given up. We all tend to forget that because of the playoff run, or dismiss it by saying that players played better in the playoffs last year without acknowledging that PF and the players got together at the end of last year and simplified the defense, using a more aggressive approach and using less "read and react". After they did that, the players suddenly played better, because they changed things, not because they got more pressure.