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Hall of Fame
01-01-2013, 06:40 PM
I'm up in south NJ visiting family for the holidays, and I can't convince my father that Eli is a top 5 QB in this league. All he keeps saying is that Eli stinks. We watched Sunday's game together, we both saw Eli have one of his best performances he's had in a long time. After Eli would score a touchdown he would look at me and say "it was a lucky throw and he still stinks". It's unfortunate that there are people out there that feel that no matter what Eli does during his career, nothing will ever be good enough! I by far am not an Eli homer, but I am someone that knows the difference between being a good QB, who's there when you need him when it matters most, and know that my teams QB is not always going to be playing his best ball, and having a bad game once in a while is unavoidable. Please help, what can I do to change his pessimistic mind?

Sarcasman
01-01-2013, 06:51 PM
Your father is Hooligans!?!?

That's pretty cool.

radar-ray
01-01-2013, 06:54 PM
Your father is Hooligans!?!?

That's pretty cool. HA, good one!!!

gmen0820
01-01-2013, 06:55 PM
Time for the home.

Rudyy
01-01-2013, 06:56 PM
Does he go on the message board?

JustinTuckNYG91
01-01-2013, 06:56 PM
Usually the people down there in south Jersey are Eagles fans, is he one of them? :p
Would he prefer we had someone like Kent Graham, Dave Brown, Etc.? We have a durable QB, unaffected by the media here which we all know can be brutal. We've won 2 super bowls with him, he's the king of come backs. Does he have an occasional bad game where he stinks it up? Sure but so do a lot of QBs in the league, more so than Eli.

Out of Exile
01-01-2013, 06:58 PM
He's a jealous troll

ashleymarie
01-01-2013, 06:58 PM
Maybe Eli should stop wearing Romo's cologne.

I think your father has made up his mind a long time ago and is not going to change it.

ashleymarie
01-01-2013, 06:59 PM
Time for the home.

No offense meant but this is funny as he**.

JustinTuckNYG91
01-01-2013, 07:00 PM
No offense meant but this is funny as he**.
lol, it is and no offense, OP.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-01-2013, 07:02 PM
I'm up in south NJ visiting family for the holidays, and I can't convince my father that Eli is a top 5 QB in this league. All he keeps saying is that Eli stinks. We watched Sunday's game together, we both saw Eli have one of his best performances he's had in a long time. After Eli would score a touchdown he would look at me and say "it was a lucky throw and he still stinks". It's unfortunate that there are people out there that feel that no matter what Eli does during his career, nothing will ever be good enough! I by far am not an Eli homer, but I am someone that knows the difference between being a good QB, who's there when you need him when it matters most, and know that my teams QB is not always going to be playing his best ball, and having a bad game once in a while is unavoidable. Please help, what can I do to change his pessimistic mind?

who cares what he thinks,,,he's our QB,,,not his.

gmen0820
01-01-2013, 07:12 PM
lol, it is and no offense, OP.Haha nah, I'm just messing with the guy. I live in SoJo too, sometimes the anti-Eli propaganda is convincing.

jomo
01-01-2013, 07:27 PM
Your father is Hooligans!?!?

That's pretty cool.lol

Hall of Fame
01-01-2013, 07:41 PM
Does he go on the message board?

My father don't even know how to turn a computer on, lol.

Hall of Fame
01-01-2013, 07:42 PM
Usually the people down there in south Jersey are Eagles fans, is he one of them? :p
Would he prefer we had someone like Kent Graham, Dave Brown, Etc.? We have a durable QB, unaffected by the media here which we all know can be brutal. We've won 2 super bowls with him, he's the king of come backs. Does he have an occasional bad game where he stinks it up? Sure but so do a lot of QBs in the league, more so than Eli.

No he grew up in Secaucus.

Hall of Fame
01-01-2013, 07:44 PM
Haha nah, I'm just messing with the guy. I live in SoJo too, sometimes the anti-Eli propaganda is convincing.

He lives in Williamstown, all his neighbors are Eagles fans.

gmen0820
01-01-2013, 07:53 PM
He lives in Williamstown, all his neighbors are Eagles fans.Yeah, I'd imagine. All my friends are Eagle fans, which is why I hate the Eagles so much more than the Cowboys (for whenever the "who do you hate more?" debate comes up). I take so much **** for being a Giants fan around here haha

It's kind of died down recently though. I have older people (45+) come up to me when I'm decked out in Giants gear (everyday) and they'll just say: kid, had it been five years ago I'd heckle you, but now I see Giants fans and just think "good for you."

South Jersey Eagle fans have really been deflated recently.

Hall of Fame
01-01-2013, 07:59 PM
Yeah, I'd imagine. All my friends are Eagle fans, which is why I hate the Eagles so much more than the Cowboys (for whenever the "who do you hate more?" debate comes up). I take so much **** for being a Giants fan around here haha

It's kind of died down recently though. I have older people (45+) come up to me when I'm decked out in Giants gear (everyday) and they'll just say: kid, had it been five years ago I'd heckle you, but now I see Giants fans and just think "good for you."

South Jersey Eagle fans have really been deflated recently.

It died down because the Eagles stink as of late, when we first moved down in 04 they made the SB, it was crazy then. We had our cars damaged and property damaged because our vehicles had Giant stickers on them. I have since moved to Florida and there is more Giants fans down there than anything. New Yorkers are ruining Florida too.

TroyArcher
01-01-2013, 08:31 PM
No offense but your father is either a moron or Harooni or both.

gmen0820
01-01-2013, 08:35 PM
It died down because the Eagles stink as of late, when we first moved down in 04 they made the SB, it was crazy then. We had our cars damaged and property damaged because our vehicles had Giant stickers on them. I have since moved to Florida and there is more Giants fans down there than anything. New Yorkers are ruining Florida too.Yup, Eagles have blown recently, and the humble pie being dished out is just a great site.

McNabb saying a week or two ago that "Philly is finding out that getting to the playoffs isn’t easy (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/28/mcnabb-philly-is-finding-out-that-getting-to-the-playoffs-isnt-easy/)" was just icing on the cake (or pie, lol).

geonyg
01-01-2013, 09:08 PM
No offense but your father is not very smart.

Morehead State
01-01-2013, 09:57 PM
No offense but your father is not very smart.
Actually...that's extremely offensive.

Roosevelt
01-01-2013, 09:59 PM
I'm up in south NJ visiting family for the holidays, and I can't convince my father that Eli is a top 5 QB in this league. All he keeps saying is that Eli stinks. We watched Sunday's game together, we both saw Eli have one of his best performances he's had in a long time. After Eli would score a touchdown he would look at me and say "it was a lucky throw and he still stinks". It's unfortunate that there are people out there that feel that no matter what Eli does during his career, nothing will ever be good enough! I by far am not an Eli homer, but I am someone that knows the difference between being a good QB, who's there when you need him when it matters most, and know that my teams QB is not always going to be playing his best ball, and having a bad game once in a while is unavoidable. Please help, what can I do to change his pessimistic mind?


http://i2.ytimg.com/sh/elqC3mz4anc/showposter.jpg?v=5006edf6

Morehead State
01-01-2013, 10:02 PM
http://i2.ytimg.com/sh/elqC3mz4anc/showposter.jpg?v=5006edf6

I was always partial to "Make Room For Daddy".

gumby74
01-01-2013, 10:22 PM
Funny thing is that when I was at whole foods the other day shopping for groceries wearing my Giants jersey, a fellow Giants fan approached me. He said, "Thank god for Eli and all, but after 8 years you'd think that you would be able to trust what you'd be getting out of a guy!"

Morehead State
01-01-2013, 10:24 PM
Funny thing is that when I was at whole foods the other day shopping for groceries wearing my Giants jersey, a fellow Giants fan approached me. He said, "Thank god for Eli and all, but after 8 years you'd think that you would be able to trust what you'd be getting out of a guy!"
Eli = Box of chocolates

EliDaMANning
01-01-2013, 10:51 PM
Funny thing is that when I was at whole foods the other day shopping for groceries wearing my Giants jersey, a fellow Giants fan approached me. He said, "Thank god for Eli and all, but after 8 years you'd think that you would be able to trust what you'd be getting out of a guy!" 2 SB MVP. Hope he stays on this pace does better in the next 8.

JustinTuckNYG91
01-01-2013, 10:54 PM
No he grew up in Secaucus. Just busting chops.

Morehead State
01-01-2013, 11:09 PM
2 SB MVP. Hope he stays on this pace does better in the next 8.
He sucked in 2012.
In that respect. his Dad was right.

EliDaMANning
01-01-2013, 11:12 PM
On pace for 4 SB in 16 years. Future HOF, one of the GOAT and undisputed GOAT giant QB ill take it.

Sarcasman
01-02-2013, 12:57 AM
Can your Dad actually smell Eli from where he's sitting?

Eli does often have that "someone around here smells bad" look, y'know?

Your Dad might be on to something.

Harooni
01-02-2013, 01:00 AM
Son???

Line Coach
01-02-2013, 02:55 AM
Son???
LOL!!

Hall of Fame
01-02-2013, 04:36 AM
Can your Dad actually smell Eli from where he's sitting?

Eli does often have that "someone around here smells bad" look, y'know?

Your Dad might be on to something.
He actually says the other S word that rhymes with truck, but I wanted to be PC since there's probably kids on here.

Hall of Fame
01-02-2013, 04:39 AM
Son???

LMAO, my dad is 64, I am 34 and I thought you were around the same age as me. So there goes that theory folks. Maybe you guys are long lost cousins or something. He's always been pessimistic about everything. Put it this way, he likes rainy days. I do know one thing....when we won the 07 SB he was jumping up and down with me when his boy Eli threw up that game winning TD to Burress. So that can qualify him as a fair weathered fan.

Kruunch
01-02-2013, 09:09 AM
I'm up in south NJ visiting family for the holidays, and I can't convince my father that Eli is a top 5 QB in this league. All he keeps saying is that Eli stinks. We watched Sunday's game together, we both saw Eli have one of his best performances he's had in a long time. After Eli would score a touchdown he would look at me and say "it was a lucky throw and he still stinks". It's unfortunate that there are people out there that feel that no matter what Eli does during his career, nothing will ever be good enough! I by far am not an Eli homer, but I am someone that knows the difference between being a good QB, who's there when you need him when it matters most, and know that my teams QB is not always going to be playing his best ball, and having a bad game once in a while is unavoidable. Please help, what can I do to change his pessimistic mind?

Your father is trolling you.

It's one of our guilty pleasures as parents.

SweetZombieJesus
01-02-2013, 09:09 AM
Seeing your dad is in South Jersey let me make a leap -- he's an Eagles fan and even if he isn't, he's saturated in the psychopathic Philly sports media. Those guys have a view of Eli frozen in 2004 and just can't rationalize anything he's done since then so they ignore it. Anything good he does is "luck".

Tell him to stop taking what the Philly media says with any seriousness and look at what the man has done. Two Super Bowls, Two Super Bowl MVPs, two game winning Super Bowl drives, 8-3 in the playoffs, NFL record for 4th quarter TDs, a hair shy of 5000 yards last year, Giants TD record and many others, etc. Tell him to question what the vile Philly media tells him. If he doesn't hear it from the media directly it's being regurgitated by the fans. The sports in that city is one huge echo chamber of how great the Eagles are (and alternately how they should all be drawn and quartered when they fail) and how the Giants suck, are lucky, et al. Up until this season hammered home some reality, they still think it's 2001-2004, the Eagles are head and shoulders the class of the NFC East, are guaranteed to win the Super Bowl, etc.

I have a boss who has the same view, a few days of listening to WIP and I figured out the source for the river of bile, it was word for word. Those guys are bi-polar and in a state of denial about themselves and about others.

carlton5127@msn.com
01-02-2013, 09:31 AM
Tell him to Stop listening to " Mike Gill & Todd Rank "....I'm sure he knows who they are!

bigblue58
01-02-2013, 09:50 AM
I'm up in south NJ visiting family for the holidays, and I can't convince my father that Eli is a top 5 QB in this league. All he keeps saying is that Eli stinks. We watched Sunday's game together, we both saw Eli have one of his best performances he's had in a long time. After Eli would score a touchdown he would look at me and say "it was a lucky throw and he still stinks". It's unfortunate that there are people out there that feel that no matter what Eli does during his career, nothing will ever be good enough! I by far am not an Eli homer, but I am someone that knows the difference between being a good QB, who's there when you need him when it matters most, and know that my teams QB is not always going to be playing his best ball, and having a bad game once in a while is unavoidable. Please help, what can I do to change his pessimistic mind?

With all due respect, your father hasn't been paying attention and knows not too much about football if he needs to be convinced that Eli doesn't stink! Pull up the records Eli has already amassed and ask your father how a QB who stinks won us 2 SB's in the last 5 years being named MVP in both of them.
If he keeps answering that it's just "luck", then you'll have to reconcile yourself to the sad fact that your father is closed minded to an Archie Bunker-like extreme.

Morehead State
01-02-2013, 10:50 AM
With all due respect, your father hasn't been paying attention and knows not too much about football if he needs to be convinced that Eli doesn't stink! Pull up the records Eli has already amassed and ask your father how a QB who stinks won us 2 SB's in the last 5 years being named MVP in both of them.
If he keeps answering that it's just "luck", then you'll have to reconcile yourself to the sad fact that your father is closed minded to an Archie Bunker-like extreme.
Sometimes Eli really does stink. Other times he's outstanding.
Its the paradox of Eli. It always has been. It's why the entire subject of Eli elicits such ire on all sides.
Eli is the most up and down QB I've ever seen. I've never seen a guy with such high beta.
It's the one thing that keeps him from being a great QB. So yes...."Good Eli" sets records and helps his team (and it is a "team", no one "won us" 2 SB's) win 2 SB's. "Bad Eli" looks like he hasn't had a lick of coaching and plays like a rookie.
No one can really explain it but there it is. The opinions of Eli are as uneven as his play.

GameTime
01-02-2013, 10:53 AM
I'm up in south NJ visiting family for the holidays, and I can't convince my father that Eli is a top 5 QB in this league. All he keeps saying is that Eli stinks. We watched Sunday's game together, we both saw Eli have one of his best performances he's had in a long time. After Eli would score a touchdown he would look at me and say "it was a lucky throw and he still stinks". It's unfortunate that there are people out there that feel that no matter what Eli does during his career, nothing will ever be good enough! I by far am not an Eli homer, but I am someone that knows the difference between being a good QB, who's there when you need him when it matters most, and know that my teams QB is not always going to be playing his best ball, and having a bad game once in a while is unavoidable. Please help, what can I do to change his pessimistic mind?
South Jersey....must be a Philly fan

gumby74
01-02-2013, 11:08 AM
Another story is that my sister in law who barely watched any football, disliked Eli from the start. Granted, she's kind of a granola, social worker, do what's best for society, teaches for a living - choosing to work in underpriviledged neighborhoods, rah rah kind of person, but she thought that Eli didn't seem like a leader and that his performance wasn't up to par of other good QBs. Not saying that this is true, but to the casual observer, it's clear that Eli isn't exactly convincing.

Giantsin04
01-02-2013, 11:12 AM
"Please help, what can I do to change his pessimistic mind? "

----------

Probably nothing. People just don't change their mind very often

It's like a political debate. You have two guys with very different beleifs screaming at each other, trying to convince the other to see the light. They make what they think are great arguments for their side and after all the effort back and forth.... each is even more convinced that they are right.

Usually, the answer to your question is to just not try.

gumby74
01-02-2013, 11:15 AM
"Please help, what can I do to change his pessimistic mind? "

----------

Probably nothing. People just don't change their mind very often

It's like a political debate. You have two guys with very different beleifs screaming at each other, trying to convince the other to see the light. They make what they think are great arguments for their side and after all the effort back and forth.... each is even more convinced that they are right.

Usually, the answer to your question is to just not try.

Thinking of it this way. Fair or not, Eli got labeled very early on in his career by the general public. Once your labeled it's hard to get rid of. Think back to grade school. That's why people are still skeptical.

Redeyejedi
01-02-2013, 11:18 AM
I'm up in south NJ visiting family for the holidays, and I can't convince my father that Eli is a top 5 QB in this league. All he keeps saying is that Eli stinks. We watched Sunday's game together, we both saw Eli have one of his best performances he's had in a long time. After Eli would score a touchdown he would look at me and say "it was a lucky throw and he still stinks". It's unfortunate that there are people out there that feel that no matter what Eli does during his career, nothing will ever be good enough! I by far am not an Eli homer, but I am someone that knows the difference between being a good QB, who's there when you need him when it matters most, and know that my teams QB is not always going to be playing his best ball, and having a bad game once in a while is unavoidable. Please help, what can I do to change his pessimistic mind?he isnt a Top 5 QB he wasnt even Top 10 this year

Morehead State
01-02-2013, 11:25 AM
he isnt a Top 5 QB he wasnt even Top 10 this year
No he's not and no he wasn't. This was a poor season for our guy. That's 2 out of the last 3.

Lets face it folks, Eli looks really bad at times. Its not just playing badly, he actually looks like he can't play the position. Then other times he's slinging it all over the place and moving the team up and down the field.
I have my theory about it and I've shared it here, but no one can really say for sure why he is what he is.

Kruunch
01-02-2013, 11:41 AM
No he's not and no he wasn't. This was a poor season for our guy. That's 2 out of the last 3.

Lets face it folks, Eli looks really bad at times. Its not just playing badly, he actually looks like he can't play the position. Then other times he's slinging it all over the place and moving the team up and down the field.
I have my theory about it and I've shared it here, but no one can really say for sure why he is what he is.

The funny thing is in 20 years MS will be on these boards saying how amazing Eli was and how bad the current Giants QB is :D

Buddy333
01-02-2013, 11:42 AM
No he's not and no he wasn't. This was a poor season for our guy. That's 2 out of the last 3.Lets face it folks, Eli looks really bad at times. Its not just playing badly, he actually looks like he can't play the position. Then other times he's slinging it all over the place and moving the team up and down the field.I have my theory about it and I've shared it here, but no one can really say for sure why he is what he is.This thread just got interesting.

BuffyBlueII
01-02-2013, 11:59 AM
Sometimes Eli really does stink. Other times he's outstanding.
Its the paradox of Eli. It always has been. It's why the entire subject of Eli elicits such ire on all sides.
Eli is the most up and down QB I've ever seen. I've never seen a guy with such high beta.
It's the one thing that keeps him from being a great QB. So yes...."Good Eli" sets records and helps his team (and it is a "team", no one "won us" 2 SB's) win 2 SB's. "Bad Eli" looks like he hasn't had a lick of coaching and plays like a rookie.
No one can really explain it but there it is. The opinions of Eli are as uneven as his play.

You make some good points here but the best one is one is the comment about Eli looking like he hasnít had a lick of coaching. I think that is a very big point. Eli doesnít have good coaching or offensive coordinating. There is no coincidence that Eliís had his best year by far in 2011 when Peyton wasnít playing and happenned to be on the phone with Eli 3-4 times a week talking about his play. IMO that had a lot to do with his great year.

Morehead State
01-02-2013, 12:17 PM
You make some good points here but the best one is one is the comment about Eli looking like he hasnít had a lick of coaching. I think that is a very big point. Eli doesnít have good coaching or offensive coordinating. There is no coincidence that Eliís had his best year by far in 2011 when Peyton wasnít playing and happenned to be on the phone with Eli 3-4 times a week talking about his play. IMO that had a lot to do with his great year.
Everyone had a good year in 2011. There were something like 14 QB's with 4000 yards. It was a year for the passing game due to the lockout.
I'm not discounting 2011 for Eli, but the passing yards stats were clearly an anomaly.

And Eli's coaching is fine. As a matter of fact I think they have gotten probably as much out of Eli that they could get. The problem is that he is who he is. He has a fragile pshycy. His confidence is easily shattered. When it is, he absolutely sucks. When he plays with great confidence, he plays great.
Maybe its the "little brother" thing. Maybe he was dropped on his head when he was a baby. Who the hell knows.
But the kid is way too up and down. And none of us can presume to know why that is.

BParcells777
01-02-2013, 12:45 PM
The whole team was flat this year........Eli included

Mercury
01-02-2013, 12:46 PM
The old man is pushing your button's son.

Try agreeing with him to an extent, especially when he does something dumb. Don't say, "Eli stinks." Say, "That was a real bonehead move. What was he thinking?"

Hall of Fame
01-02-2013, 01:14 PM
The old man is pushing your button's son.

Try agreeing with him to an extent, especially when he does something dumb. Don't say, "Eli stinks." Say, "That was a real bonehead move. What was he thinking?"

That's not the problem....even when he plays well, he still says Eli stinks....When Eli plays bad and lays a stinker, forget about it, he will change the channel in the first quarter lol. I said "dad what's your real problem with Eli", his response is "you can't trust him, you just don't know what Eli will show up". Or I get the gem "he's a bum!"..... I can't win.

Morehead State
01-02-2013, 01:40 PM
I love all you guys who are trying to pshycho- analyze this guys Father. As if he must be crazy to think Eli stinks. Or he must be a closet Eagles fan. Or he must be "pushing his buttons".
Some here have even stooped to insulting his Dad in some way.

Maybe the guy just think Eli stinks. Ever think of that?

BParcells777
01-02-2013, 01:41 PM
That's not the problem....even when he plays well, he still says Eli stinks....When Eli plays bad and lays a stinker, forget about it, he will change the channel in the first quarter lol. I said "dad what's your real problem with Eli", his response is "you can't trust him, you just don't know what Eli will show up". Or I get the gem "he's a bum!"..... I can't win.

Ignore him and change the subject- ask him who's going to win the SB

BuffyBlueII
01-02-2013, 01:42 PM
Everyone had a good year in 2011. There were something like 14 QB's with 4000 yards. It was a year for the passing game due to the lockout.
I'm not discounting 2011 for Eli, but the passing yards stats were clearly an anomaly.

And Eli's coaching is fine. As a matter of fact I think they have gotten probably as much out of Eli that they could get. The problem is that he is who he is. He has a fragile pshycy. His confidence is easily shattered. When it is, he absolutely sucks. When he plays with great confidence, he plays great.
Maybe its the "little brother" thing. Maybe he was dropped on his head when he was a baby. Who the hell knows.
But the kid is way too up and down. And none of us can presume to know why that is.

I do disagree with you on the coaching. I think he needs a good QB coach and coordinator.

I think he does have some confidence problems at times but then again, I think there are a number of folks on this team, particularly Justin Tuck that do too. I also think that Eli Manning is in a bad system and that the system which relies on big plays has hindered him as oppossed to the system that Mike Shannahan has which breeds short passes and really builds the confidence of the QB.

Eli is streaky and that is why when he was in a groove in the Washington Reskins game, it was important to keep him throwing. I really think if we keep throwing that we win that game and Eli’s confidence is high and it carries over and he plays better the rest of the year. A lot of athletes have egos, confidence problems, etc......etc...... and that is where coaching does come in to address that. Look at how efficient Mike Vick was in 2010 when Andy Reid groomed him to come back.Since then, their offensive line collapsed and he got beat up all the time and his confidence was shaken and his game has also sufferred.

The lockout did help QBs because defenses had no time to prepare and folks had better stats but it was more than that with Eli Manning in 2011. He seemed to have a calmness and control of the game throughout the entire year. Maybe he was just confident throughour the year after he started off on a roll but I think talking Peyton regularly about his game was greatly beneficial to him. Heck, maybe the fact that Peyton didn’t play that year and Eli didn’t have worry about the comparision was what did it. Who the heck knows for sure.

Unfortunately, 2011 may have been an anomaly for Eli Manning but I tend to think it was what we can regularly get out of him if he is coached right and has that supreme confidence he displayed. Maybe it is time to just hire Timmy Tebow as a consultant to come in and give some motivational speeches before the games and during halftime. lol.......

None of us really know why Eli Manning is as up and down as he is. I really think a good QB coach and a new OC would really help.

Rudyy
01-02-2013, 01:43 PM
I love all you guys who are trying to pshycho- analyze this guys Father. As if he must be crazy to think Eli stinks. Or he must be a closet Eagles fan. Or he must be "pushing his buttons".Some here have even stooped to insulting his Dad in some way.Maybe the guy just think Eli stinks. Ever think of that?Then why do some people over analyze when some fans think Eli is a top 5 QB? Maybe they just think he is.

Morehead State
01-02-2013, 01:49 PM
Then why do some people over analyze when some fans think Eli is a top 5 QB? Maybe they just think he is.
I am very sure that those folks truly believe that Eli is all that and a bag of chips.
Its my job to convince them that they are wrong. (at least about being a great QB) And as you may have concluded already......I am prepared to be relentless.

Mercury
01-02-2013, 01:50 PM
This really has very little to do with Eli. It could be about any subject at all. The man knows his son and is purposely saying things that bother his son.

Try agreeing with your father. Once he sees the comment doesn't bother you, he will stop.

Rudyy
01-02-2013, 01:52 PM
I am very sure that those folks truly believe that Eli is all that and a bag of chips.Its my job to convince them that they are wrong. (at least about being a great QB) And as you may have concluded already......I am prepared to be relentless...Doesn't that get boring? They aren't going to change how they think, just like you won't change how you feel about Phil.

Morehead State
01-02-2013, 01:53 PM
This really has very little to do with Eli. It could be about any subject at all. The man knows his son and is purposely saying things that bother his son.

Try agreeing with your father. Once he sees the comment doesn't bother you, he will stop.
And you have a complex understanding of this fellow sufficient to come to this conclusion............how?

Morehead State
01-02-2013, 01:54 PM
..Doesn't that get boring? They aren't going to change how they think, just like you won't change how you feel about Phil.
Its important to fight the good fight.

Morehead will always fight the power!

Roosevelt
01-02-2013, 01:58 PM
That's not the problem....even when he plays well, he still says Eli stinks....When Eli plays bad and lays a stinker, forget about it, he will change the channel in the first quarter lol. I said "dad what's your real problem with Eli", his response is "you can't trust him, you just don't know what Eli will show up". Or I get the gem "he's a bum!"..... I can't win.

You're not alone.

Eli is not athletic, throws some pretty ugly passes, and his demeanor does not inspire confidence in an old school mentality.

I know many people (outside this board) who do not think highly of his game.

BuffyBlueII
01-02-2013, 02:14 PM
This thread is 7 pages long full of reasons about a guy that only the OP knows.

Has anyone thought that maybe, just maybe, the guy’s father just thinks Eli Manning sucks? lol................

EliDaMANning
01-02-2013, 02:16 PM
Then why do some people over analyze when some fans think Eli is a top 5 QB? Maybe they just think he is.yup he certainly is top 5 in my opinion.

BuffyBlueII
01-02-2013, 02:16 PM
I am very sure that those folks truly believe that Eli is all that and a bag of chips.
Its my job to convince them that they are wrong. (at least about being a great QB) And as you may have concluded already......I am prepared to be relentless.

I am curious so please indulge me. Why is it that you must convince people they are wrong about Eli? Did Eli do something to you? lol.....

DandyDon
01-02-2013, 02:28 PM
I normally ignore these idiotic eli threads, but one comment I will make is I dont think anyone can realistically say "Eli stinks." You can say inconsistant, not good at times under pressure, not moblie enough, etc. All have been true at one time or another.

But anyone who says a very clutch 2 time superbowl MVP stinks is either just a blind hater or is delusional.

No offense to the OP's dad.

Morehead State
01-02-2013, 02:55 PM
I am curious so please indulge me. Why is it that you must convince people they are wrong about Eli? Did Eli do something to you? lol.....
Has nothing to do with Eli. As I have said repeatedly, I'm fine with Eli because I accept what he is.
It started when I was attacked and called every name in the book because I don't put Eli on a level with Brady, Peyton, Brees or Rodgers. Because I dared to point out shortcomings in his game. I'm dealing with folks who say ridiculous things like "Eli makes throws that Rodgers can't make" and "I'd take Eli over any QB in the league".
Its just silliness and I hate silliness.
My problem in this MB has nothing to do with Eli. It's with the Eli Cultists.

Morehead State
01-02-2013, 02:57 PM
I normally ignore these idiotic eli threads, but one comment I will make is I dont think anyone can realistically say "Eli stinks." You can say inconsistant, not good at times under pressure, not moblie enough, etc. All have been true at one time or another.

But anyone who says a very clutch 2 time superbowl MVP stinks is either just a blind hater or is delusional.

No offense to the OP's dad.
"No offense to the OP's Dad who I just called a hater or delusional"

I love it.

Rudyy
01-02-2013, 02:59 PM
Has nothing to do with Eli. As I have said repeatedly, I'm fine with Eli because I accept what he is.It started when I was attacked and called every name in the book because I don't put Eli on a level with Brady, Peyton, Brees or Rodgers. Because I dared to point out shortcomings in his game. I'm dealing with folks who say ridiculous things like "Eli makes throws that Rodgers can't make" and "I'd take Eli over any QB in the league".Its just silliness and I hate silliness.My problem in this MB has nothing to do with Eli. It's with the Eli Cultists.But that's their opinion..why should somebody be ridiculed for having a different opinion?

gumby74
01-02-2013, 03:07 PM
But that's their opinion..why should somebody be ridiculed for having a different opinion?

For me, it's not that they have a different opinion, but how they go about rationalizing and defending it. If someone just flat out said, "Eli's my boy. As long as he's with the Giants, I'm going to think he's the best/one of the best QB in the NFL. I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks. I'm right and that's that." I'll have a lot more respect for that than say,

"Eli's WRs had dropped passes. Eli also had no oline. Eli's top target was hurt and couldn't get into a rhythm together. The offense in which Eli plays in is not condusive to good stats. Eli plays in the windy confines of the meadowlands. The WR ran the wrong route. The playcalling is holding Eli back. How can Eli do well with players consistenly getting hurt?" And on and on and on ... What would you think if you heard someone defending Romo usually similar reasons? You would probably think, "Wow what a Romo homer."

And the usage of stats in small sample sizes. What's up with that?

Morehead State
01-02-2013, 03:07 PM
But that's their opinion..why should somebody be ridiculed for having a different opinion?

Thats not whats been happening here. It started after the 2010 season when I started a thread listing the pro's and con's of Eli's game. There were like 7 or 8 "pro's", and a couple "cons". I was attacked and called every name in the book. All while most of my post was positive.
You are looking at this backwards. They went after me so now they are getting no slack from me.

And I'm sorry...when a poster says "Eli makes throws that Aaron Rodgers can't make" they have it coming.

Hall of Fame
01-02-2013, 03:13 PM
But that's their opinion..why should somebody be ridiculed for having a different opinion?

I don't think my dad says the things he says just to get under my skin. He is just the complete opposite of an Eli homer. Even when Eli plays well he still says he stinks. What he says doesn't bother me that bad, just gets irritating hearing it over and over again. I will never show him it bothers me. Again, he's not doing it to get under my skin, he's just always been like this. The man likes rainy days over a nice sunny day, he's the ultimate pessimist. Maybe I shouldn't even bother trying to change his opinion on Eli lol.

Sarcasman
01-02-2013, 03:15 PM
I don't think my dad says the things he says just to get under my skin. He is just the complete opposite of an Eli homer. Even when Eli plays well he still says he stinks. What he says doesn't bother me that bad, just gets irritating hearing it over and over again. I will never show him it bothers me. Again, he's not doing it to get under my skin, he's just always been like this. The man likes rainy days over a nice sunny day, he's the ultimate pessimist. Maybe I shouldn't even bother trying to change his opinion on Eli lol.


Your Dad is entitled to his opinion just like everybody else.

If he's a good Dad, his opinions about the quality of football players couldn't be less important.

BuffyBlueII
01-02-2013, 03:18 PM
They went after me so now they are getting no slack from me.

Sweep the leg.

You got a problem with that Mr. Lawrence?

Hall of Fame
01-02-2013, 03:23 PM
For the record, I am not an Eli homer. I'm not blind to see Eli has many flaws and is very inconsistent, but when he has a great game I call it like I see it the same way I would when he has a bad game. MS had the best comparison anyone can have, Eli = box of chocolates. Having Eli as our QB we never know what we're going to get game in and game out. So far in his career he hasn't shown us that he will be consistently consistent. Having said that, he's our QB for now, and the foreseeable future, so we will just have to deal with his shortcomings. As for my father, he is the ultimate Eli hater, no matter what he does it's never good enough. I find it funny that there are people out there like this, and one of them happens to be my immediate family member.

Rudyy
01-02-2013, 03:36 PM
Also, if people know that Eli is inconsistent, why do they act so surprised? All this "What happened to Eli?!! Omg he regressed" well um if you know he's inconsistent what's the big deal? It should be no surprise to you. Did your expectations go through the roof after last season?

Morehead State
01-02-2013, 03:41 PM
Also, if people know that Eli is inconsistent, why do they act so surprised? All this "What happened to Eli?!! Omg he regressed" well um if you know he's inconsistent what's the big deal? It should be no surprise to you. Did your expectations go through the roof after last season?
This is a good question. I can tell you that I actually thought he was past this nonsense. He was actually very consistent in the 2011 season. I thought his decision making and pocket presence was significantly better. then came 2012. Its like the old Eli came back. And its very frustrating when I thought he was gone forever.
This season has shown me that this is simply what he is. An up and down player who is overly effected by conditions around him. So I won't be getting fooled again (Sorry Roger Daultry). He's downright exasperating. I'll take the good when it comes and whine like hell when "Bad Eli" shows up.
Since the good is very good, we all will just live with it. But the bad....is really, really bad.

Kruunch
01-02-2013, 03:51 PM
I love how 4,000 yards passing, 26 TDs and 60% completion is "bad" all of a sudden.

Rudyy
01-02-2013, 03:54 PM
I love how 4,000 yards passing, 26 TDs and 60% completion is "bad" all of a sudden. I think a lot of people fell in love with the 4th quarter comebacks to be honest. Now he couldn't do that this year and he's supposedly regressed. He didnt make the big plays he made last year, and some throws this year made you scratch your head a lot but it's not like he was drastically any different.

gumby74
01-02-2013, 03:59 PM
I love how 4,000 yards passing, 26 TDs and 60% completion is "bad" all of a sudden.

Hmm true true. Eli's play wasn't nearly as bad as people made it out to be, but what made it seem worse is that he had a few really really dismal games. That and it doesn't help that his 2011 was stellar which made people's expectations rise.

Morehead State
01-02-2013, 04:00 PM
I love how 4,000 yards passing, 26 TDs and 60% completion is "bad" all of a sudden.
11 QB's had more yards. 8 QB's had more TD'd and virtually every QB had a better completion %. Many rookies had better seasons than Eli did.
By the standards that many posters suggest he upholds, this was a down year. Plus he made a lot up in week 17 where we were essentially eliminated.

BuffyBlueII
01-02-2013, 04:02 PM
11 QB's had more yards. 8 QB's had more TD'd and virtually every QB had a better completion %. Many rookies had better seasons than Eli did.
By the standards that many posters suggest he upholds, this was a down year. Plus he made a lot up in week 17 where we were essentially eliminated.

It was an off year for Eli Manning. However, he did play in a horrible offensive scheme for a miserable piece of trash useless garbage OC.

Kruunch
01-02-2013, 04:02 PM
I think a lot of people fell in love with the 4th quarter comebacks to be honest. Now he couldn't do that this year and he's supposedly regressed. He didnt make the big plays he made last year, and some throws this year made you scratch your head a lot but it's not like he was drastically any different.

Expectation versus reality definitely.

One point that Morehead State made that I agree 100% with is that you can't live, either as a team or a QB, on last minute come from behind wins. Eventually you will just fail to make those types of plays (as evidenced this year).

They look and feel great when they happen, but they aren't a game plan. To me, that was the difference between the 2011 and 2012 Giants.

BuffyBlueII
01-02-2013, 04:07 PM
Expectation versus reality definitely.

One point that Morehead State made that I agree 100% with is that you can't live, either as a team or a QB, on last minute come from behind wins. Eventually you will just fail to make those types of plays (as evidenced this year).

They look and feel great when they happen, but they aren't a game plan. To me, that was the difference between the 2011 and 2012 Giants.

We did lose some close ones this year. The Philadelphia and Washington losses really hurt us.

Kruunch
01-02-2013, 04:11 PM
11 QB's had more yards. 8 QB's had more TD'd and virtually every QB had a better completion %. Many rookies had better seasons than Eli did.
By the standards that many posters suggest he upholds, this was a down year. Plus he made a lot up in week 17 where we were essentially eliminated.

Except there were only 6 QBs who beat Eli this year in all those stats combined.

5 if you consider Romo had more picks than Eli.

Definitely a down year, but only in retrospect (i.e. had they made the playoffs and gone on to the SB, it'd be a great year) ... statistically it was fairly average for him (and fairly good all around).

Kruunch
01-02-2013, 04:12 PM
We did lose some close ones this year. The Philadelphia and Washington losses really hurt us.

Yep ... can only live on the edge so long.

SweetZombieJesus
01-02-2013, 05:36 PM
This thread is 7 pages long full of reasons about a guy that only the OP knows.

Has anyone thought that maybe, just maybe, the guy’s father just thinks Eli Manning sucks? lol................

If he can put forth an argument as to why he sucks -- A, B, and C, then fine.

But just stupidly saying "he sucks" and anything he does good is "lucky", well, that's exactly how Philly fans are programmed to react. Hard to find one who can make a convincing argument why he sucks or conversely accept that he does anything well.

I've worked with dozens of them, some for over a decade. That's how they're programmed by their media echo chamber.

Morehead State
01-02-2013, 05:44 PM
Except there were only 6 QBs who beat Eli this year in all those stats combined.

5 if you consider Romo had more picks than Eli.

Definitely a down year, but only in retrospect (i.e. had they made the playoffs and gone on to the SB, it'd be a great year) ... statistically it was fairly average for him (and fairly good all around).
thats actually a lot.
And the guy didn't have a 60% completion percentage. (Yes I know it was 59.9%) Thats deplorable in today's NFL.
It was a bad year.

Harooni
01-02-2013, 08:18 PM
LMAO, my dad is 64, I am 34 and I thought you were around the same age as me. So there goes that theory folks. Maybe you guys are long lost cousins or something. He's always been pessimistic about everything. Put it this way, he likes rainy days. I do know one thing....when we won the 07 SB he was jumping up and down with me when his boy Eli threw up that game winning TD to Burress. So that can qualify him as a fair weathered fan. haha im the same age as you , my dad likes Eli, but knows he isnt Peyton.

Rudyy
01-02-2013, 08:21 PM
haha im the same age as you , my dad likes Eli, but knows he isnt Peyton.What's up with you and aliens? lol

Harooni
01-02-2013, 08:53 PM
What's up with you and aliens? lol the new season started!!!! and Phillip has passed away of a rare fast acting cancer yet suspiciously the media has not covered it at all

Hall of Fame
01-02-2013, 10:19 PM
If he can put forth an argument as to why he sucks -- A, B, and C, then fine.

But just stupidly saying "he sucks" and anything he does good is "lucky", well, that's exactly how Philly fans are programmed to react. Hard to find one who can make a convincing argument why he sucks or conversely accept that he does anything well.

I've worked with dozens of them, some for over a decade. That's how they're programmed by their media echo chamber.

Let me reiterate, my dad moved to Williamstown in 04, he was born and raised in Secaucus, and a life long Giant fan. I know he dislikes the Eagles more than the Cowboys, because we are constantly getting Eagles propaganda shoved down our throats all the time, living here in the Philly tv market. So I assure you he is not a closet Eagles fan.

bashful
01-02-2013, 10:42 PM
Eli's biggest weakest is the offensive coordinator!!! Tell your father to look at the correct pile of ****.

Sarcasman
01-02-2013, 10:45 PM
sorry but your dad is kinda right. Eli was straight up putrid this year and everyone knows it.


There's nothing worse than a lame doppel.

Hall of Fame
01-02-2013, 10:53 PM
sorry but your dad is kinda right. Eli was straight up putrid this year and everyone knows it.

Welcome back Giggles :p

Sarcasman
01-02-2013, 11:04 PM
i dont accept mediocrity sorry.


Don't be so hard on yourself; it was hardly mediocre.

Sarcasman
01-02-2013, 11:06 PM
your right he was hardly mediocre, he was terrible.


My right what?

gmen0820
01-02-2013, 11:08 PM
My right what?Haha I was thinking the same thing

gumby74
01-02-2013, 11:12 PM
Miggles*

imposter. clear as night and day.

gmen0820
01-02-2013, 11:14 PM
no one is talking to you...Up until now that you quoted me.

Chris Christie
01-02-2013, 11:24 PM
Miggles*

Giggles is the ultimate pessimist, you shouldn't give this guy advice on his dad, if u think the same exact way as his dad lol.

Sarcasman
01-02-2013, 11:46 PM
...Up until now that you quoted me.


LOL


It's sad to watch really....

gmen0820
01-03-2013, 12:17 AM
LOL


It's sad to watch really....Sad? It's hilarious haha

gmen0820
01-03-2013, 12:20 AM
bullies on here, is this place moderated?Nice to meet ya

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 12:23 AM
bullies on here, is this place moderated?How old are you? lol.

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 12:29 AM
none yaThat's a weird number.

Harooni
01-03-2013, 12:29 AM
sorry but your dad is kinda right. Eli was straight up putrid this year and everyone knows it.

lol miggles welcome back

Harooni
01-03-2013, 12:41 AM
i dont even know you man. ok fake giggles i know , you a charger fan?

Hall of Fame
01-03-2013, 12:57 AM
bullies on here, is this place moderated?

Please don't hijack my thread, then the mods will lock it up. Hopefully they see who is starting trouble and take care of the source.
Stay on topic.

Harooni
01-03-2013, 02:46 AM
um ok..and no im not. Are you a Giorgio A. Tsoukalos fan??
yes i am

Harooni
01-03-2013, 08:44 PM
Hmm true true. Eli's play wasn't nearly as bad as people made it out to be, but what made it seem worse is that he had a few really really dismal games. That and it doesn't help that his 2011 was stellar which made people's expectations rise.

i think the op's dad is quite intuitive but perhaps too harsh.

Jtuck
01-03-2013, 11:40 PM
Everyone had a good year in 2011. There were something like 14 QB's with 4000 yards. It was a year for the passing game due to the lockout.
I'm not discounting 2011 for Eli, but the passing yards stats were clearly an anomaly.

And Eli's coaching is fine. As a matter of fact I think they have gotten probably as much out of Eli that they could get. The problem is that he is who he is. He has a fragile pshycy. His confidence is easily shattered. When it is, he absolutely sucks. When he plays with great confidence, he plays great.
Maybe its the "little brother" thing. Maybe he was dropped on his head when he was a baby. Who the hell knows.
But the kid is way too up and down. And none of us can presume to know why that is.

I think he was dropped on his head too many times! The up and down play is just maddening! It's like a split personality!

DVision
01-03-2013, 11:45 PM
Why's your father sniffing Eli? :)