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NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 06:03 PM
Just ask yourself this... since he's been vying (for years, and that is well documented) for a head coaching position than why has not a single team offered him a job? Coordinators are free game every single year. The Gilbride enthusiasts always bring up the point he's won two super bowls. So if he's so accomplished why does he not appeal to any football team in the collegiate or NFL level.

Gilbride supporters also bring up that our offense is generally always tops in the league... blah blah blah

Don't you think with a top QB in Eli and the superior talent surrounding him that we should always have top offense no matter who the OC is?


Gilbride is a good to average OC. He's nothing more, nothing less and we can absolutely do better and also do worse.

I'd love the opportunity to allow someone to do better.


He's here for at least another season so this is the last Gilbride topic I will make, scouts honor :)... and we can win despite him.

slipknottin
01-01-2013, 06:04 PM
Because hes 61 years old.

And he was in fact a head coach for a year in the NFL.

Drez
01-01-2013, 06:10 PM
Being a good HC and a good coordinator have absolute nothing to do with each other. Some guys are just not cut out to be HC's, despite being excellent coordinators, i.e. **** LeBeau.

So, can people stop bringing this subject up like it's some indictment of KG as an OC; it's just ignorant and makes you look foolish.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 06:14 PM
Because hes 61 years old.

And he was in fact a head coach for a year in the NFL.
Right, he doesn't have the fire or personality to be a HC. He's purely an X and O guy. I don't see him anything more than that but my gripe is, is his scheme is tired. Ge doesn't ever step outside of the box and I'm not talking about throwing in a flea flicker like some fans suggest every year lol. He's just so blah and bland which is predictable.

Everything is predicated on the big play and Eli Manning... you cannot rely on that every single game, it's asinine.


Teams are using his sight adjustment scheme to benefit their defense.

slipknottin
01-01-2013, 06:15 PM
If his scheme is tired, why is Mike Sullivan such a hot commodity when he is running the same system?

gmen0820
01-01-2013, 06:17 PM
If his scheme is tired, why is Mike Sullivan such a hot commodity when he is running the same system?After one year, mind you.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 06:17 PM
Being a good HC and a good coordinator have absolute nothing to do with each other. Some guys are just not cut out to be HC's, despite being excellent coordinators, i.e. **** LeBeau.

So, can people stop bringing this subject up like it's some indictment of KG as an OC; it's just ignorant and makes you look foolish.

They have more to do with each other than you like to believe.

TheEnigma
01-01-2013, 06:19 PM
If his scheme is tired, why is Mike Sullivan such a hot commodity when he is running the same system?

Surprised he is already getting HC interviews with the Bears. That was awfully quick.

Drez
01-01-2013, 06:20 PM
They have more to do with each other than you like to believe.
Such as?

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 06:21 PM
If his scheme is tired, why is Mike Sullivan such a hot commodity when he is running the same system?

Who wouldn't want a bad *** like that? The guy knows jiu jitsu and is a former marine if I remember correctly.

Kidding though..


Seriously he's still relatively young and has a lot to offer, not only as an OC. He's also a good players coach.

gmen0820
01-01-2013, 06:23 PM
Who wouldn't want a bad *** like that? The guy knows jiu jitsu and is a former marine if I remember correctly.

Kidding though..


Seriously he's still relatively young and has a lot to offer, not only as an OC.And Gilbride isn't, simple as that.

slipknottin
01-01-2013, 06:23 PM
Seriously he's still relatively young and has a lot to offer, not only as an OC. He's also a good players coach.

But i thought the scheme was the reason Gilbride didnt get any jobs?

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 06:26 PM
But i thought the scheme was the reason Gilbride didnt get any jobs?

Nope, never once said that.

I said his scheme is what's hindering us at times. If you noticed this season teams would noticeably bait Nicks and Cruz into the route they wanted them to take like using cheese to catch a mouse. They set a trap. Our division has figured out his scheme and other teams are catching on a bit.

Doesn't mean our talent cannot overcome that but that doesn't mean there is no fault there. We weren't able to this season because of Nicks' health.

slipknottin
01-01-2013, 06:28 PM
Nope, never once said that.

I said his scheme is what's hindering us at times. If you noticed this season teams would noticeably bait Nicks and Cruz into the route they wanted them to take like using cheese to catch a mouse. They set a trap. Our division has figured out his scheme and other teams are catching on a bit.

Doesn't mean our talent cannot overcome that but that doesn't mean there is no fault there. We weren't able to this season because of Nicks' health.

You just posted about how his scheme is tired and not creative enough being the reason the giants offense struggles and gilbride doesnt get a HC job.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 06:28 PM
And Gilbride isn't, simple as that.
And you don't think that if Coughlin still wanted to coach and for whatever reason left the Giants that he wouldn't be highly courted?

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 06:29 PM
You just posted about how his scheme is tired and not creative enough being the reason the giants offense struggles and gilbride doesnt get a HC job.
No.

slipknottin
01-01-2013, 06:30 PM
So you are saying the system Gilbride runs has nothing to do with why he doesnt get a HC job?

gmen0820
01-01-2013, 06:34 PM
And you don't think if Coughlin still wanted to coach and for whatever reason left the Giants that he wouldn't be highly courted?I'm just gonna stop you right here. What exactly is it that you're trying to prove by bringing this up? You said this:


Right, he doesn't have the fire or personality to be a HC. He's purely an X and O guy.

That's plausible. I would accept that claim. Why the hell are you asking though? Purely an X and O guy, fine! That skill-set is much better suited as an OC, and it's translated into a statistically successful offense, and two SBs.

TheEnigma
01-01-2013, 06:37 PM
He's an offensive Wade Phillips. He has the intelligence to put out a fantastic scheme and get the most from his 11 players but any responsibility past coordinating an offense and he struggles mightily.

moosedrool
01-01-2013, 06:37 PM
I guess ****Lebeau isn't a good DC in PIT since he hasn't been a head coach since 2002.

gmen0820
01-01-2013, 06:38 PM
I guess ****Lebeau isn't a good DC in PIT since he hasn't been a head coach yet.He has been a HC. In 2002 for the Bengals.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 06:39 PM
So you are saying the system Gilbride runs has nothing to do with why he doesnt get a HC job?
Yes.

I'm saying I don't know why he doesn't get a HC job. Aside from his age and the fact he's monotone and probably wouldn't be a great motivator he clearly isn't as great as some fans make him out to be. His scheme is great if you can execute it as well as mix in some plays. It's a great base offense to run but you need to mix it up with different routes and not just leave every play up to the receiver. Everything is predicated on the receiver beating their man and if that doesn't happen we look like ****. Not to mention you cannot wait 5-7 seconds for every play to develop down field just to get a completion. Especially if your O-line is struggling.. Defenses get paid too.

slipknottin
01-01-2013, 06:40 PM
Yes..

I dont understand the point of this thread then. Gilbride has a great system, which when in a younger coach gets a ton of praise and attention.

So the point of this thread is to what, complain that Gilbride is old?

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 06:40 PM
I guess ****Lebeau isn't a good DC in PIT since he hasn't been a head coach since 2002.

He doesn't want to be a HC smart ***... he's content with being a DC.. and a damn good one.

Gilbride has obviously been seeking a head coaching gig the past couple years.

ashleymarie
01-01-2013, 06:40 PM
They have more to do with each other than you like to believe.

True dat.

moosedrool
01-01-2013, 06:41 PM
He doesn't want to be a HC smart ***... he's content with being a DC.. and a damn good one.


Don't get all huffy when people pick apart your inept posts.



Gilbride has obviously been seeking a head coaching gig the past couple years.

Don't post stuff that you have no idea about.

TheEnigma
01-01-2013, 06:42 PM
Gilbride was already a HC once with the Chargers and failed miserably. He is what he is. Capers, LeBeau, Phillips...all guys who don't have what it takes to be a HC.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 06:43 PM
I dont understand the point of this thread then. Gilbride has a great system, which when in a younger coach gets a ton of praise and attention.

So the point of this thread is to what, complain that Gilbride is old?

I never once brought up age, someone else did. 61 is not that old especially if you're in good health which he is.'

If he's so good other teams would want him and they don't. Period.

The talent surrounding him masks his incompetence at times, that's all.

slipknottin
01-01-2013, 06:44 PM
If he's so good other teams would want him and they don't. Period.

Because hes 61. Not many teams are hiring 60+ year old head coaches.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 06:45 PM
Don't get all huffy when people pick apart your inept posts.



Don't post stuff that you have no idea about.
You didn't pick apart anything. You made a smart-*** sarcastic statement and you expected what exactly?

moosedrool
01-01-2013, 06:46 PM
The talent surrounding him masks his incompetence at times, that's all.

Mediocre at best OL.

An injured Nicks most of the year.

Nicks injury was the killer to this offense, not Gilbride.

moosedrool
01-01-2013, 06:47 PM
You didn't pick apart anything. You made a smart-*** sarcastic statement and you expected what exactly?

Slip did, and his points are right on target.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 06:47 PM
Because hes 61. Not many teams are hiring 60+ year old head coaches.

Fair enough, I just don't think that's the only criteria for his lack of vacancy.

Coughlin might be the exception to the rule but as they say age is just a number.

Roosevelt
01-01-2013, 06:49 PM
Just ask yourself this... since he's been vying (for years, and that is well documented) for a head coaching position than why has not a single team offered him a job? Coordinators are free game every single year. The Gilbride enthusiasts always bring up the point he's won two super bowls. So if he's so accomplished why does he not appeal to any football team in the collegiate or NFL level.

Gilbride supporters also bring up that our offense is generally always tops in the league... blah blah blah

Don't you think with a top QB in Eli and the superior talent surrounding him that we should always have top offense no matter who the OC is?


Gilbride is a good to average OC. He's nothing more, nothing less and we can absolutely do better and also do worse.

I'd love the opportunity to allow someone to do better.


He's here for at least another season so this is the last Gilbride topic I will make, scouts honor :)... and we can win despite him.



You'd love the opportunity?

Ok, here's your chance to sell the most important person on this change - Eli Manning. Let's hear it, and while you're at it, let's hear Eli's response as well.

Drez
01-01-2013, 06:49 PM
I guess ****Lebeau isn't a good DC in PIT since he hasn't been a head coach since 2002.

​But, he's too old.

Drez
01-01-2013, 06:52 PM
Fair enough, I just don't think that's the only criteria for his lack of vacancy.

Coughlin might be the exception to the rule but as they say age is just a number.
Or maybe, just maybe, teams realize that he's a great coordinator but not HC material. I'm sure if the Giants fired him as OC he'd be an OC somewhere else next season.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 06:55 PM
Mediocre at best OL.

An injured Nicks most of the year.

Nicks injury was the killer to this offense, not Gilbride.
No. Nicks health was a main factor in why we weren't as successful this year but it all starts with Gilbride.

He played Diehl over a healthy more effective Locklear.
He was the sole reason we lost at least 2-3 games this year because of his play calling or lack thereof. You don't continue to run the damn ball when Eli is on fire in the first half(Washington game). In the Steelers game Diehl was terrible. The Bengals game, Diehl was awful. You can't move the ball if your QB doesn't have enough time to make a decision.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 06:56 PM
You'd love the opportunity?

Ok, here's your chance to sell the most important person on this change - Eli Manning. Let's hear it, and while you're at it, let's hear Eli's response as well.
So you don't think we could do better than Gilbride?

moosedrool
01-01-2013, 06:59 PM
He was the sole reason we lost at least 2-3 games this year because of his play calling or lack thereof. You don't continue to run the damn ball when Eli is on fire in the first half(Washington game).

Ridiculous statements. You are just another armchair OC on these boards.

ashleymarie
01-01-2013, 07:04 PM
You'd love the opportunity?

Ok, here's your chance to sell the most important person on this change - Eli Manning. Let's hear it, and while you're at it, let's hear Eli's response as well.

Hahahaha. I can hear Eli telling Gilbride "I carried you last year when we won the SB. This year you are on your own, fat ***".

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 07:07 PM
Ridiculous statements. You are just another armchair OC on these boards.

And you're a blind fool.

Call it even.

Drez
01-01-2013, 07:08 PM
No. Nicks health was a main factor in why we weren't as successful this year but it all starts with Gilbride.

He played Diehl over a healthy more effective Locklear.
He was the sole reason we lost at least 2-3 games this year because of his play calling or lack thereof. You don't continue to run the damn ball when Eli is on fire in the first half(Washington game). In the Steelers game Diehl was terrible. The Bengals game, Diehl was awful. You can't move the ball if your QB doesn't have enough time to make a decision.

Locklear had been struggling the couple weeks before Diehl came back, too.

The Washington game... We ran the ball for 95 or 96 yards in the first half. We were 3/13 on deep passes against Washington that game. The biggest problem in that game was the defense couldn't get off the field in the second half. Washington held the ball for 10 minutes in the 4Q alone. That was a significantly bigger problem in the game than was play calling. That and the penalties.

Drez
01-01-2013, 07:09 PM
Ridiculous statements. You are just another armchair OC on these boards.And ignorant of the facts, too.

GentleGiant
01-01-2013, 07:14 PM
Norv turner is a great OC but a terrible HC.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 07:16 PM
Norv turner is a great OC but a terrible HC.

I'd welcome him with open arms over Gilbride

Drez
01-01-2013, 07:17 PM
I'd welcome him with open arms over GilbrideIt seems you'd welcome a wet fart over KG.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 07:17 PM
Locklear had been struggling the couple weeks before Diehl came back, too.

The Washington game... We ran the ball for 95 or 96 yards in the first half. We were 3/13 on deep passes against Washington that game. The biggest problem in that game was the defense couldn't get off the field in the second half. Washington held the ball for 10 minutes in the 4Q alone. That was a significantly bigger problem in the game than was play calling. That and the penalties.
So you wouldn't take struggling over being a complete liability? You're saying Locklear wasn't outperforming Diehl ten fold?

Drez
01-01-2013, 07:19 PM
So you wouldn't take struggling over being a complete liability? You're saying Locklear wasn't outperforming Diehl ten fold?
Not really. He was playing kinda poorly right as Diehl was getting back. Not saying that he would have played as poorly as Diehl, but I can see why the staff wanted to see what Diehl could do first. Mind you, I think this decision was more on TC than KG, as well.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 07:19 PM
It seems you'd welcome a wet fart over KG.

No, because if you actually read anything I wrote you would see I've stated numerous times that Gilbride is a good to average OC and that I would welcome a better choice. Norv Turner would be that choice.

People act like I say Gilbride is terrible. At times, yes his play calling is terrible but he's a decent OC.

We just have too much talent to be so stagnant.

Roosevelt
01-01-2013, 07:22 PM
So you don't think we could do better than Gilbride?


I see the same thing you and everyone else sees. And I know for certain that we've all went off on Gilbride in the past only to find out that it was Eli changing the plays based on his reads.

So the bottom line is I don't know what part is Eli and what part is Gilbride that's not working.

But to get back to my previous post, I'm simply asking you if you think Eli wants a new OC? Do you think he wants to learn a new system? I have a feeling Eli would have a hard time with a new system.

Drez
01-01-2013, 07:22 PM
No, because if you actually read anything I wrote you would see I've stated numerous times that Gilbride is a good to average OC and that I would welcome a better choice. Norv Turner would be that choice.

People act like I say Gilbride is terrible. At times, yes his play calling is terrible but he's a decent OC.

We just have too much talent to be so stagnant.
But, we didn't this year, or rather our talent didn't play up to their level. Our OL sucked. Our RBs were banged up all season and no receiver stepped up to fill Nicks' role or as a strong 3rd for most of the season. As much as I love Eli, his ball placement and decision making weren't as sharp this season as they were last.

To me, the stagnation falls more on the feet of the 11 on the field than KG.

Drez
01-01-2013, 07:23 PM
I see the same thing you and everyone else sees. And I know for certain that we've all went off on Gilbride in the past only to find out that it was Eli changing the plays based on his reads.

So the bottom line is I don't know what part is Eli and what part is Gilbride that's not working.

But to get back to my previous post, I'm simply asking you if you think Eli wants a new OC? Do you think he wants to learn a new system? I have a feeling Eli would have a hard time with a new system.
I think Eli would pick up a new system rather quickly; as it is we run one of the more complicated systems in the league. However, I don't think Eli would want to play under any OC that wouldn't give him full reign at the line.

moosedrool
01-01-2013, 07:24 PM
We just have too much talent to be so stagnant.

You are over rating the healthy talent. Mediocre OL and an injured Nicks does not qualify as "too much talent".

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 07:26 PM
Why can't be mix in a little of everything? Why does everything have to always be our receiver beating their man and making a tough circus catch?

It's OK to dink and dunk sometimes.


We rarely run a hot route, a wheel route, a slant, a screen with proper blocking...... everything is predicated on Eli Manning and "the big play". Nothing ever comes easy. When do you ever see us throw it outside and pick up an 8-10 yard gain? Our blocking is atrocious. The defense always flies to the football whenever we attempt to run one.

Why is it that our receivers ALWAYS have to beat their man and make a SPECTACULAR grab deep down the field in order to move the chains? Run, run, pass in the red zone when the run isn't working derails the offense in SO many ways. Why don't we ever dink and dunk to move the ball. Hynoski has good hands and is pretty agile to pick up ample yards after the catch. The Saints hardly ever run the ball, they utilize the short pass as their run game. The most annoying thing for a defense, the most obnoxious thing for a defense is to constantly allow short 4-5 yard completions in succession with no clue how to stop it. 1st down. Gee that was too easy.


If we mix in the short stuff with the deep ball, offenses will have to come closer to the box which will then open up the deep routes.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 07:28 PM
I see the same thing you and everyone else sees. And I know for certain that we've all went off on Gilbride in the past only to find out that it was Eli changing the plays based on his reads.

So the bottom line is I don't know what part is Eli and what part is Gilbride that's not working.

But to get back to my previous post, I'm simply asking you if you think Eli wants a new OC? Do you think he wants to learn a new system? I have a feeling Eli would have a hard time with a new system.
You do not give Eli nearly enough credit.

And no I do not give him too much credit.

Eli Manning is one of the smartest QB's in the NFL. Easily top 3 probably behind Peyton and Brady. H would flourish in a better offense where he could utilize the no huddle when deemed necessary, simpler routes and less predictable play calling...... ESPECIALLY in the red zone.

moosedrool
01-01-2013, 07:29 PM
When do you ever see us throw it outside and pick up an 8-10 yard gain?

I stopped reading your post after this sentence.

Drez
01-01-2013, 07:30 PM
Why can't be mix in a little of everything? Why does everything have to always be our receiver beating their man and making a tough circus catch?

It's OK to dink and dunk sometimes.


We rarely run a hot route, a wheel route, a slant, a screen with proper blocking...... everything is predicated on Eli Manning and "the big play". Nothing ever comes easy. When do you ever see us throw it outside and pick up an 8-10 yard gain? Our blocking is atrocious. The defense always flies to the football whenever we attempt to run one.

Why is it that our receivers ALWAYS have to beat their man and make a SPECTACULAR grab deep down the field in order to move the chains? Run, run, pass in the red zone when the run isn't working derails the offense in SO many ways. Why don't we ever dink and dunk to move the ball. Hynoski has good hands and is pretty agile to pick up ample yards after the catch. The Saints hardly ever run the ball, they utilize the short pass as their run game. The most annoying thing for a defense, the most obnoxious thing for a defense is to constantly allow short 4-5 yard completions in succession with no clue how to stop it. 1st down. Gee that was too easy.


If we mix in the short stuff with the deep ball, offenses will have to come closer to the box which will then open up the deep routes.
For one, we run hot routes all the time. The fact that you don't think we do makes me question how much you actually know about football.

And you are way over simplifying things and being hyperbolic at the same time.

You see what you want to see and disregard everything else.

gmen0820
01-01-2013, 07:32 PM
For one, we run hot routes all the time. The fact that you don't think we do makes me question how much you actually know about football.

And you are way over simplifying things and being hyperbolic at the same time.

You see what you want to see and disregard everything else.People watch the game on Sunday, don't re-watch it, and just make generalized assessments off of lasting images in their head.

The hot route comment cracked me up.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 07:33 PM
I stopped reading your post after this sentence.

That's funny because GB does it all the time. And don't tell me we don't have the players to do just that.

Drez
01-01-2013, 07:35 PM
I stopped reading your post after this sentence.
I only reluctantly kept reading after we never throw a hot route.

GoDeep80
01-01-2013, 07:36 PM
**** Lebeau has turned down HC Jobs. He WANTS to stay a coordinator. So don't compare it to KG.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 07:36 PM
For one, we run hot routes all the time. The fact that you don't think we do makes me question how much you actually know about football.

And you are way over simplifying things and being hyperbolic at the same time.

You see what you want to see and disregard everything else.
No we do not run hot routes all the time.

We do not call them nearly as much as we should. Over simplifying what?

You're stating opinions nothing more. Talking out of your *** actually.


Agree to disagree I guess.

gmen0820
01-01-2013, 07:37 PM
That's funny because GB does it all the time. And don't tell me we don't have the players to do just that.Rocket! Rocket!

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 07:38 PM
People watch the game on Sunday, don't re-watch it, and just make generalized assessments off of lasting images in their head.

The hot route comment cracked me up.
I re-watch the games every single season at least once, sometimes twice.

I used to make a topic after each game to summarize and point out who did what and how they performed.

Don't make assumptions.

Drez
01-01-2013, 07:38 PM
People watch the game on Sunday, don't re-watch it, and just make generalized assessments off of lasting images in their head.

The hot route comment cracked me up.
I admit, I very seldom re-watch games. However, most games I don't get to watch live, so I listen to them on the radio and watch them when I get home, so in a way I watch them more than once.

Drez
01-01-2013, 07:39 PM
No we do not run hot routes all the time.

We do not call them nearly as much as we should. Over simplifying what?

You're stating opinions nothing more. Talking out of your *** actually.


Agree to disagree I guess.
So, what do consider a hot route?

gmen0820
01-01-2013, 07:39 PM
No we do not run hot routes all the time.

We do not call them nearly as much as we should. Over simplifying what?

You're stating opinions nothing more. Talking out of your *** actually.


Agree to disagree I guess.If we don't run a hot route, it's probably because we leave a TE, and a RB into block, and if the defense's blitz doesn't get home, we have a huge chance of nailing a deep bomb versus, most likely, man coverage. Again, it depends on the formation we're in too.

So many variables that you are just overlooking to satisfy your bias against Gilbride.

GoDeep80
01-01-2013, 07:40 PM
Gilbride was already a HC once with the Chargers and failed miserably. He is what he is. Capers, LeBeau, Phillips...all guys who don't have what it takes to be a HC.These are all guys who had ONE opportunity! Bill Belicheck wouldn't be where he is if he wasn't given another chance after his horrid failure in Cleveland. Lets not forget about Pete Carroll's first run in the NFL.

Roosevelt
01-01-2013, 07:44 PM
I think Eli would pick up a new system rather quickly; as it is we run one of the more complicated systems in the league. However, I don't think Eli would want to play under any OC that wouldn't give him full reign at the line.


I don't see Eli wanting to play under a new OC, and rightfully so.

And while Eli is certainly capable of running any system, he is a creature of habit - even his bad one's.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 07:44 PM
If we don't run a hot route, it's probably because we leave a TE, and a RB into block, and if the defense's blitz doesn't get home, we have a huge chance of nailing a deep bomb versus, most likely, man coverage. Again, it depends on the formation we're in too.

So many variables that you are just overlooking to satisfy your bias against Gilbride.

I don't have a bias against Gilbride.

I've given him another chance this season and he once again let me down. He can call some good games for the most part and others are just terrible. Same thing with Fewell. Neither of them make many or enough adjustments when something isn't working.

gmen0820
01-01-2013, 07:46 PM
**** Lebeau has turned down HC Jobs. He WANTS to stay a coordinator. So don't compare it to KG.Which ones? Not trying to be a smartass, but I can't remember the last time I've seen him turn down an interview for a HC gig, or the last one he was offered, for that matter.

moosedrool
01-01-2013, 07:46 PM
I re-watch the games every single season at least once, sometimes twice.

I used to make a topic after each game to summarize and point out who did what and how they performed.

Don't make assumptions.

Well then you need to rewatch the games 5 or 6 times then.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 07:47 PM
I think Eli would pick up a new system rather quickly; as it is we run one of the more complicated systems in the league. However, I don't think Eli would want to play under any OC that wouldn't give him full reign at the line.

That's the thing. If we did get a new OC Eli would have full reign to call the offense however he pleases.

And we would THRIVE.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 07:48 PM
Well then you need to rewatch the games 5 or 6 times then.

You need to stop being such a smug smart *** and get out of my thread.

gmen0820
01-01-2013, 07:50 PM
I don't have a bias against Gilbride.

I've given him another chance this season and he once again let me down. He can call some good games for the most part and others are just terrible. Same thing with Fewell. Neither of them make many or enough adjustments when something isn't working.You gave him another chance this season? How kind of you to give a SB winning OC, who's unit was a position of strength that whole year, another chance.

Your posts certainly indicate bias against Gilbride. Have you seen the posts you make during the games? After the games? I don't necessarily draw this from the context of your posts (which support my claim for the most part anyway), but the unbelievable frequency in which you bash the offense, and the play calling!

You're right, maybe it isn't bias, maybe it's just blind disapproval.

moosedrool
01-01-2013, 07:51 PM
You need to stop being such a smug smart *** and get out of my thread.

You need to stop posting words that result in astericks replacing the words.

gmen0820
01-01-2013, 07:52 PM
That's the thing. If we did get a new OC Eli would have full reign to call the offense however he pleases.

And we would THRIVE.You do realize just how much responsibility that Eli holds in our offense now, right? It's about as full reign as it gets in this league.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 07:54 PM
You gave him another chance this season? How kind of you to give a SB winning OC, who's unit was a position of strength that whole year, another chance.

Your posts certainly indicate bias against Gilbride. Have you seen the posts you make during the games? After the games? I don't necessarily draw this from the context of your posts (which support my claim for the most part anyway), but the unbelievable frequency in which you bash the offense, and the play calling!

You're right, maybe it isn't bias, maybe it's just blind disapproval.
I'll say again, just because we won a super bowl with Gilbride doesn't mean it was because of him. He was not even close to a key reason we won. We won despite him.

I can't stand Gilbride, that's well documented on here but I left him alone this season for the most part. Until he made no adjustments in our offense when things weren't going well.

GoDeep80
01-01-2013, 07:55 PM
Which ones? Not trying to be a smartass, but I can't remember the last time I've seen him turn down an interview for a HC gig, or the last one he was offered, for that matter.From about 2005-2009 nhe was on of the most request coaches for interview. After a while it became understood that he has no intentions of being a HC and that he just wants to coach defense. Last thing I heard wast the Cardinals offering him the HC job about 2-3 years ago. He is very happy with his position and team.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 07:56 PM
You do realize just how much responsibility that Eli holds in our offense now, right? It's about as full reign as it gets in this league.
Not even close.

Peyton, Brady and Brees have full reign.

Eli does not and he should because he has the intellect and skill to execute it.

Drez
01-01-2013, 07:57 PM
I'll say again, just because we won a super bowl with Gilbride doesn't mean it was because of him. He was not even close to a key reason we won. We won despite him.

I can't stand Gilbride, that's well documented on here but I left him alone this season for the most part. Until he made no adjustments in our offense when things weren't going well.
So, for the past 30 years of Gilbride's coaching career his offenses have won and been highly ranked in spite of him? Do you understand how truly stupid that sounds?

Drez
01-01-2013, 07:57 PM
Not even close.

Peyton, Brady and Brees have full reign.

Eli does not and he should because he has the intellect and skill to execute it.
I give up on this thread. It's obvious you have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

Roosevelt
01-01-2013, 07:58 PM
You do not give Eli nearly enough credit.

And no I do not give him too much credit.

Eli Manning is one of the smartest QB's in the NFL. Easily top 3 probably behind Peyton and Brady. H would flourish in a better offense where he could utilize the no huddle when deemed necessary, simpler routes and less predictable play calling...... ESPECIALLY in the red zone.

I wasn't questioning his intelligence. I was suggesting that his familiarity is obviously with this system.

But again, what do you think Eli wants? Do you think he wants a new OC? And if he didn't, would you force a new one on him?

And along those lines, if Eli was unhappy with our system do you think he would try to change it? And if he did, do you think the Giants would be amenable to his desires?

Drez
01-01-2013, 07:59 PM
Which ones? Not trying to be a smartass, but I can't remember the last time I've seen him turn down an interview for a HC gig, or the last one he was offered, for that matter.
Well, for LeBeau, it could just be that it's understood that he's not interested so teams don't come calling.

Roosevelt
01-01-2013, 08:00 PM
Not even close.

Peyton, Brady and Brees have full reign.

Eli does not and he should because he has the intellect and skill to execute it.

Hold on. If you believe this, then you really have no clue.

Roosevelt
01-01-2013, 08:03 PM
I'll say again, just because we won a super bowl with Gilbride doesn't mean it was because of him. He was not even close to a key reason we won. We won despite him.

I can't stand Gilbride, that's well documented on here but I left him alone this season for the most part. Until he made no adjustments in our offense when things weren't going well.

You sound ridiculous.

gmen0820
01-01-2013, 08:05 PM
From about 2005-2009 nhe was on of the most request coaches for interview. After a while it became understood that he has no intentions of being a HC and that he just wants to coach defense. Last thing I heard wast the Cardinals offering him the HC job about 2-3 years ago. He is very happy with his position and team.Cardinals offered him the DC position. Again, don't remember seeing him getting interviews.


Well, for LeBeau, it could just be that it's understood that he's not interested so teams don't come calling.Yeah, I think that's what it comes down to ultimately, which is why there aren't interviews.

moosedrool
01-01-2013, 08:06 PM
Hold on. If you believe this, then you really have no clue.

You just realized this now :eek:

Marvelousmik
01-01-2013, 08:06 PM
he turns the ball over a little too much for me to consider him the 3rd smartest qb in the NFL

gmen0820
01-01-2013, 08:06 PM
I give up on this thread. It's obvious you have no idea what the hell you are talking about.You can't just leave!

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 08:10 PM
I wasn't questioning his intelligence. I was suggesting that his familiarity is obviously with this system.

But again, what do you think Eli wants? Do you think he wants a new OC? And if he didn't, would you force a new one on him?

And along those lines, if Eli was unhappy with our system do you think he would try to change it? And if he did, do you think the Giants would be amenable to his desires?
He probably doesn't want a change because no one really truthfully likes change no matter what it is. If you asked him if he could learn a new scheme rather quickly I'm sure he would say give a bland answer.

Eli is a great guy and a great teammate. He's not going to throw anyone under the bus no matter what. That doesn't mean he wouldn't thrive under a new OC.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 08:11 PM
he turns the ball over a little too much for me to consider him the 3rd smartest qb in the NFL
He doesn't mind making a mistake. That doesn't mean he's not smart. He trusts his receivers and tries to do too much when the line breaks down.

He's a winner and doesn't are about his stats.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 08:13 PM
I'd love to hear who everyone thinks is a smarter QB than Eli besides Peyton or Brady.

OX1
01-01-2013, 08:13 PM
Mediocre at best OL.

An injured Nicks most of the year.

Nicks injury was the killer to this offense, not Gilbride.

and for the 1000th time, what specifically
did killdrive do in an attempt to compensate for that.

Marvelousmik
01-01-2013, 08:14 PM
He probably doesn't want a change because no one really truthfully likes change no matter what it is.

tell that to browns fans.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 08:17 PM
tell that to browns fans.
Hahaha... you know what a mean :o

Marvelousmik
01-01-2013, 08:18 PM
I'd love to hear who everyone thinks is a smarter QB than Eli besides Peyton or Brady.

matt ryan, brees, rodgers are some names that come to mind. I think they are smarter because their overall decision making on the field is better. they dont turn the ball over as much. as far as reading defenses goes, they are all very good at it. that is why they are all productive on the field for their team.


prays: "please dont let him bring up playoff wins as if it justifies a player being smarter than another when wins come as a team. please let him give a more valid example."

Roosevelt
01-01-2013, 08:18 PM
He probably doesn't want a change because no one really truthfully likes change no matter what it is. If you asked him if he could learn a new scheme rather quickly I'm sure he would say give a bland answer.

Eli is a great guy and a great teammate. He's not going to throw anyone under the bus no matter what. That doesn't mean he wouldn't thrive under a new OC.

So you are saying you would get rid of Gilbride despite Eli's wishes. Interesting.

I guess most people think of you as being more of a homer than me, so I find it interesting that you would just fire Gilbride, while I would defer to Eli. I believe Eli is that important to this franchise.

Drez
01-01-2013, 08:19 PM
You can't just leave!
True. It does have train wreck appeal, lol.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 08:19 PM
and for the 1000th time, what specifically
did killdrive do in an attempt to compensate for that.
Nada.

Kept Diehl at RT.
Failed to use Barden or Randle when Nicks was ailing.

Rudyy
01-01-2013, 08:20 PM
matt ryan, brees, rodgers are some names that come to mind. I think they are smarter because their overall decison making on the field is better. they dont turn the ball over as much. asa far is reading defenses goes, they are do that very well. that is why they are productive on the field for their team.prays: "please dont let him bring up playoff wins as if it justifies a player being smarter than another when wins come as a team. please let him give a more valid example."I don't know if I would say smarter, probably consistent is a better word.

Roosevelt
01-01-2013, 08:20 PM
You just realized this now :eek:

:)

Sometimes I carry a lot of rope.

Drez
01-01-2013, 08:20 PM
matt ryan, brees, rodgers are some names that come to mind. I think they are smarter because their overall decision making on the field is better. they dont turn the ball over as much. as far as reading defenses goes, they are all very good at it. that is why they are all productive on the field for their team.


prays: "please dont let him bring up playoff wins as if it justifies a player being smarter than another when wins come as a team. please let him give a more valid example."
Brees throws a ton of picks, too. He's thrown 15 or more in all but like 3 or 4 seasons.

Marvelousmik
01-01-2013, 08:21 PM
Nada.

Kept Diehl at RT.
Failed to use Barden or Randle when Nicks was ailing.

this i agree with. im not sure if its his ultimate decision or TC's decision but this these were some big mistakes. Good point here

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 08:22 PM
matt ryan, brees, rodgers are some names that come to mind. I think they are smarter because their overall decision making on the field is better. they dont turn the ball over as much. as far as reading defenses goes, they are all very good at it. that is why they are all productive on the field for their team.


prays: "please dont let him bring up playoff wins as if it justifies a player being smarter than another when wins come as a team. please let him give a more valid example."

Oops forgot Rodgers.. Matt Ryan LOL please don't make me laugh.

Guy has the most unbelievable receiving corps in the league (not to mention which is probably the biggest reason for his success), Tony Gonzalez.

Brees turns the ball over just as much if not more than Eli and he has a "safe" "high percentage" offense.

Drez
01-01-2013, 08:22 PM
Nada.

Kept Diehl at RT.
Failed to use Barden or Randle when Nicks was ailing.He kept Diehl at RT for 2 games when Locklear was struggling himself. Also, I think that decision was on TC, not KG.

If he thought Barden or Randle were better options earlier, he would have used them. We used Hixon a lot this season.

ny06
01-01-2013, 08:23 PM
Some how a thread about Kevin Gilbride is now turning into an Eli Manning thread.
Damn you off-season...

Marvelousmik
01-01-2013, 08:23 PM
Brees throws a ton of picks, too. He's thrown 15 or more in all but like 3 or 4 seasons.


When i said they dont turn the ball over as much, who do you think i was comparing them to?

Drez
01-01-2013, 08:23 PM
Some how a thread about Kevin Gilbride is now turning into an Eli Manning thread.
Damn you off-season...
All because Rosie asked if Eli would want a new OC, lol.

Drez
01-01-2013, 08:25 PM
When i said they dont turn the ball over as much, who do you think i was comparing them to?
I took it as a general statement. However, Brees turns the ball over a lot.

Redeyejedi
01-01-2013, 08:25 PM
That's the thing. If we did get a new OC Eli would have full reign to call the offense however he pleases.

And we would THRIVE. LOL wow u should stop right now

Marvelousmik
01-01-2013, 08:25 PM
Oops forgot Rodgers.. Matt Ryan LOL please don't make me laugh.

Guy has the most unbelievable receiving corps in the league (not to mention which is probably the biggest reason for his success), Tony Gonzalez.

Brees turns the ball over just as much if not more than Eli and he has a "safe" "high percentage" offense.

matt ryan has the most weapons, but i still think he is a very smart qb. just watch him play . brees doesnt turn the ball over more than eli. He turns it over a lot, but still less.

Marvelousmik
01-01-2013, 08:26 PM
I took it as a general statement. However, Brees turns the ball over a lot.

Dont let that happen again.

Lol im just playing. its all good.

Roosevelt
01-01-2013, 08:28 PM
All because Rosie asked if Eli would want a new OC, lol.

Oh yeah, it's always my fault. ;]

Marvelousmik
01-01-2013, 08:29 PM
I don't know if I would say smarter, probably consistent is a better word.

i think those guys i mentioned make better decisions on the field. Eli makes great decisions and reads defenses well, but the guys i mentioned in my opinion make less mistakes. Another person who reads defenses very well, believe it or not is tony romo. However, he fits under the eli category in terms of decision making.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 08:30 PM
So you are saying you would get rid of Gilbride despite Eli's wishes. Interesting.

I guess most people think of you as being more of a homer than me, so I find it interesting that you would just fire Gilbride, while I would defer to Eli. I believe Eli is that important to this franchise.
I believe they could convince Eli to lead this offense much like Peyton does in any offense he's in.

I have that much faith in Eli, has nothing to do with being a homer. Eli doesn't get enough credit. Never has. never will. Especially not with Gilbride's offense because it's not a sexy offense.

TheEnigma
01-01-2013, 08:31 PM
Not all interceptions are because of bad decision making of the QB. A decent amount of them are bad throws whether overthrowing or undethrowing the target. Just something I think should be cleared up.

gmen0820
01-01-2013, 08:33 PM
If you're just gonna make **** up without supporting it, why settle for Eli being the third smartest QB? Why not just make him number one?

Marvelousmik
01-01-2013, 08:33 PM
Not all interceptions are because of bad decision making of the QB. A decent amount of them are bad throws whether overthrowing or undethrowing the target. Just something I think should be cleared up.

i took that into consideration. i also take the passes that shoud have been intercepted but wasnt into consideration as well.

Drez
01-01-2013, 08:35 PM
matt ryan has the most weapons, but i still think he is a very smart qb. just watch him play . brees doesnt turn the ball over more than eli. He turns it over a lot, but still less.
Over the past 3 years Brees and Eli have thrown an equal number of interceptions (55).

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 08:35 PM
matt ryan has the most weapons, but i still think he is a very smart qb. just watch him play . brees doesnt turn the ball over more than eli. He turns it over a lot, but still less.
People don't understand just how important a great TE is for a QB... how much of a security blanket a guy like Witten and Tony Gonzalez are.

If Bennett didn't need to stay in for our incompetent O-line Eli might have a misatch there.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 08:37 PM
LOL wow u should stop right now
I find nothing funny about that statement? So you think if Gilbride got a job elsewhere, the new OC we brought in would have more say in the offense than Eli?

TheEnigma
01-01-2013, 08:39 PM
i took that into consideration. i also take the passes that shoud have been intercepted but wasnt into consideration as well.

Grading a QB's decision making isn't something you can do by simply going to his ESPN stats. It's one of those attributes that you need to go to the film and review the entire 60 minutes. Schemes are huge in this regard as well because some offenses (like the Redskins) don't offer complex reads due to how they confuse the LBers so well.

Marvelousmik
01-01-2013, 08:40 PM
Over the past 3 years Brees and Eli have thrown an equal number of interceptions (55).

56 interceptions.

However. brees has thrown 321 more passes.

Drez
01-01-2013, 08:42 PM
56 interceptions.

However. brees has thrown 321 more passes.
Turnovers still kill drives.

Marvelousmik
01-01-2013, 08:43 PM
Grading a QB's decision making isn't something you can do by simply going to his ESPN stats. It's one of those attributes that you need to go to the film and review the entire 60 minutes. Schemes are huge in this regard as well because some offenses (like the Redskins) don't offer complex reads due to how they confuse the LBers so well.

i dont think there is any stat that tells u a pass should have been intercepted. Out of all the top 5 qbs, eli has made some of the most bonehead decisions you will ever see. thats my opinion. And ive seen a lot of bad decisions.

Redeyejedi
01-01-2013, 08:46 PM
I find nothing funny about that statement? So you think if Gilbride got a job elsewhere, the new OC we brought in would have more say in the offense than Eli? Do u really believe Eli already doesnt have say in the offense

Marvelousmik
01-01-2013, 08:48 PM
Turnovers still kill drives.

this fact has nothing to do with who makes better decisions.

you gave me a stat stating they have the same number of interceptions over the last 3 years, but didnt take into account how many passes were thrown by each. brees threw almost 2,000 (1,985) passes in the last 3 years. eli has thrown 1,664.

Rudyy
01-01-2013, 08:50 PM
this fact has nothing to do with who makes better decisions.

you gave me a stat stating they have the same number of interceptions over the last 3 years, but didnt take into account how many passes were thrown by each. brees threw almost 2,000 (1,985) passes in the last 3 years. eli has thrown 1,664.Interceptions are still interceptions, no matter if they were bad decisions or not.

Roosevelt
01-01-2013, 08:54 PM
I believe they could convince Eli to lead this offense much like Peyton does in any offense he's in.

I have that much faith in Eli, has nothing to do with being a homer. Eli doesn't get enough credit. Never has. never will. Especially not with Gilbride's offense because it's not a sexy offense.

I'm sure they could convince him too, but that doesn't mean he would be happy.

Is this all about Eli getting proper credit for you or is winning more important? We've certainly won our share of SB's in the last 5 years.

TheEnigma
01-01-2013, 08:55 PM
Last time I checked, Eli and Brees are both in the top 5 for Yards Traveled per Attempted Pass. I'm positive there's a correlation between deeper passes per attempt and the amount of interceptions. It's one of the reasons you see Luck with so many more interceptions versus RG3.

Marvelousmik
01-01-2013, 08:55 PM
People don't understand just how important a great TE is for a QB... how much of a security blanket a guy like Witten and Tony Gonzalez are.

If Bennett didn't need to stay in for our incompetent O-line Eli might have a misatch there.

romo still makes a lot of bad decisions in spite of having a great tight end

BuffyBlueII
01-01-2013, 08:55 PM
56 interceptions. However. brees has thrown 321 more passes.Funny how the fact that Brees throws more is not factored in by you when bringing up that he throws mores TDs but it does factor in when considering INTs.

Roosevelt
01-01-2013, 08:56 PM
Interceptions are still interceptions, no matter if they were bad decisions or not.

Who you kidding Rudyy?

In 2010 Eli didn't throw 25 INTS remember?

Marvelousmik
01-01-2013, 08:57 PM
Interceptions are still interceptions, no matter if they were bad decisions or not.

thats nice. Lions also hunt for food.

the problem with this is, it has nothing to do with the original topic. decision making.

Rudyy
01-01-2013, 08:59 PM
thats nice. Lions also hunt for food.

the problem with this is, it has nothing to do with the original topic. decision making.Ok so correct me if I'm wrong.

Drew Brees throws smart interceptions and Eli throws dumb interceptions.

Marvelousmik
01-01-2013, 09:00 PM
Funny how the fact that Brees throws more is not factored in by you when bringing up that he throws mores TDs but it does factor in when considering INTs.

i dont care about touchdown passes and i will never ever bring up how many touchdown catches, runs, or passes someone has in order to prove a person is better. Never, ever. Touchdowns are the most overrated stat in the game. You can throw a slant or a screen that goes 99 yards for a TD and be credited with a TD pass.

Rudyy
01-01-2013, 09:00 PM
Who you kidding Rudyy?

In 2010 Eli didn't throw 25 INTS remember?You can debate on a few of those interceptions, but ultimately, they were from high balls and poor decision making from Eli. Why can't the same be said to other quarterbacks who throw just as many if not more than him?

Marvelousmik
01-01-2013, 09:01 PM
Ok so correct me if I'm wrong.

Drew Brees throws smart interceptions and Eli throws dumb interceptions.

No. i just think brees has a lower percentage of bad mistakes than eli. This is why i brought up brees has thrown many more passes than eli in spite of them having the same number of picks. What do you think? You think eli's percentage of mistakes are fewer in terms of decision making?

Rudyy
01-01-2013, 09:04 PM
No. i just think brees has a lower percentage of bad mistakes than eli. This is why i brought up brees has thrown many more passes than eli in spite of them having the same number of picks. What do you think? You think eli's percentage of mistakes are fewer in terms of decision making?Never said that, but the theme around here is that Eli is the only one who makes bad decisions, but if a another quarterback outperforms him in that category there's an excuse.

Roosevelt
01-01-2013, 09:05 PM
You can debate on a few of those interceptions, but ultimately, they were from high balls and poor decision making from Eli. Why can't the same be said to other quarterbacks who throw just as many if not more than him?

You gotta be playing with me.

Marvelousmik
01-01-2013, 09:06 PM
Never said that, but the theme around here is that Eli is the only one who makes bad decisions, but if a another quarterback outperforms him in that category there's an excuse.

this is partly true. But the over whelming majority acts as the opposite. When Eli does something good hes elite and hes carrying the team but when someone else does it its because they have more weapons or because they're in a better system.

TheEnigma
01-01-2013, 09:07 PM
Never said that, but the theme around here is that Eli is the only one who makes bad decisions, but if a another quarterback outperforms him in that category there's an excuse.

Some excuses are valid like attempting more passes. One could argue that going by a QB's Interception ratio is a better indicator than total interceptions.

Rudyy
01-01-2013, 09:08 PM
You gotta be playing with me.I don't play with strangers.

Rudyy
01-01-2013, 09:11 PM
this is partly true. But the over whelming majority acts as the opposite. When Eli does something good hes elite and hes carrying the team but when someone else does it its because they have more weapons or because they're in a better system.I guess most of the comments are from the radical sides of the fan base.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 09:11 PM
If you're just gonna make **** up without supporting it, why settle for Eli being the third smartest QB? Why not just make him number one?

Because it's not bull**** it's supported by everything and you as a Giants fan shouldn't need evidence of that.

Eli's extensive time he puts in, in the film room and working with his receivers, the audibles he makes at the line and his decision making when the pass protection is good tells me everything I need to know.

Eli's not afraid to make a mistake which is why he throws a lot of INT's. He trusts his receivers too much and tries to do too much to for the team which sometimes has a negative effect.

ny06
01-01-2013, 09:11 PM
I think its the opposite. When Eli does something good hes elite and hes carrying the team but when someone else does it its because they have more weapons or because they're in a better system.
I disagree, when Eli makes a play majority of people give credit to everyone not named Eli, and when Eli makes a mistake it's all Eli's fault.
For example the last game of the season, Eli throws 5 td's and when you ask fellow fans about it they say well the Eagles quit, they suck, etc. Eli Manning is truly the Rodney Dangerfiled of the NFL.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 09:13 PM
romo still makes a lot of bad decisions in spite of having a great tight end
Please no do compare Romo to Eli.

Eli is light years ahead of Romo.

Romo since he's been in the league has grown the least out of almost any legit starting QB.

Rudyy
01-01-2013, 09:14 PM
I'm not trying to argue and make excuses for Eli's play, but I think a lot of people overreacted from last year and think he totally regressed. There were some head scratching games, but ask yourself..did anyone really play all that well this year?

Not trying to make this into an Eli thread.

Roosevelt
01-01-2013, 09:16 PM
I don't play with strangers.

Okay, I just have never heard you criticize Eli's play until now.

Marvelousmik
01-01-2013, 09:16 PM
He puts in a lot of time in the film room. He works with his receivers. He audibles at the line and his decision making is good when the pass protection is good.

Quick. which Qb am i referring to?

Rudyy
01-01-2013, 09:18 PM
Okay, I just have never heard you criticize Eli's play until now.Really?

I would if I didn't see a hundred "ELI SUXXX HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING!" threads.

Marvelousmik
01-01-2013, 09:18 PM
Please no do compare Romo to Eli.

Eli is light years ahead of Romo.

Romo since he's been in the league has grown the least out of almost any legit starting QB.

You brought up the fact that matt ryan has a great tight end and that helps with decisions making. im letting u know romo also has a good tight end.

Marvelousmik
01-01-2013, 09:19 PM
Really?

I would if I didn't see a hundred "ELI SUXXX HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING!" threads.

lol we are the complete opposite. I feel the same way about gilbride.

Roosevelt
01-01-2013, 09:20 PM
Please no do compare Romo to Eli.

Eli is light years ahead of Romo.

Romo since he's been in the league has grown the least out of almost any legit starting QB.

I disagree. Romo has grown up quite a bit.

He's played through injury and despite his late game struggles he's a good QB.

Didn't he break a few Cowboy QB's records this year?

Just think, when Eli does that, our old QB's become dirt.

Rudyy
01-01-2013, 09:20 PM
lol we are the complete opposite. I feel the same way about gilbride.Which reminds me:

Firing coaches doesn't automatically solve the problems we have. Lots of irrational and radical fans on here.

Marvelousmik
01-01-2013, 09:25 PM
Which reminds me:

Firing coaches doesn't automatically solve the problems we have. Lots of irrational and radical fans on here.

I have a solution. Lets just call the team the NY Football Eli's. Because When eli plays bad and we lose its 100% all his fault. And When we win its all Eli

Morehead gave me the idea

Rudyy
01-01-2013, 09:27 PM
I have a solution. Lets just call the team the NY Football Eli's. Because When eli plays bad and we lose its 100% all his fault. When we win its all Eli

Morehead gave me the ideaNo.

Let's actually analyze the game and players instead of having knee jerk reactions and bitter opinions.

gumby74
01-01-2013, 09:27 PM
I disagree, when Eli makes a play majority of people give credit to everyone not named Eli, and when Eli makes a mistake it's all Eli's fault.
For example the last game of the season, Eli throws 5 td's and when you ask fellow fans about it they say well the Eagles quit, they suck, etc. Eli Manning is truly the Rodney Dangerfiled of the NFL.

In 2011 when Eli played brilliantly, consistently, all season long, did people give credit to Eli? Practically everyone on this board and the media were riding his jock. Consistency breeds confidence. Inconsistency just brings about questions. Eli was inconsistent this year.

Marvelousmik
01-01-2013, 09:29 PM
No.

Let's actually analyze the game and players instead of having knee jerk reactions and bitter opinions.

id agree with this philosophy if it was possible. But the trend on here is if eli plays bad and we lose its all his fault. however if we win he carried the team. he gets almost all the blame and all the credit. Although i think gilbride takes a little more blame.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 09:31 PM
You brought up the fact that matt ryan has a great tight end and that helps with decisions making. im letting u know romo also has a good tight end.
I'm aware that's why I brought up Witten lol. Witten is still probably the best TE in the league. Tony Gonzalez is right there as well.

ny06
01-01-2013, 09:32 PM
In 2011 when Eli played brilliantly, consistently, all season long, did people give credit to Eli? Practically everyone on this board and the media were riding his jock. Consistency breeds confidence. Inconsistency just brings about questions. Eli was inconsistent this year.
And he deserved all the praise last season. If not for him the Giants would have been watching the playoffs on the couch with the rest of us.
And yes Eli was inconsistent this season, but so was the WHOLE team.

TheEnigma
01-01-2013, 09:33 PM
id agree with this philosophy if it was possible. But the trend on here is if eli plays bad and we lose its all his fault. however if we win he carried the team. he gets almost all the blame and all the credit. Although i think gilbride takes a little more blame.

This year's scapegoats seem to be Gilbride, Tuck, Bradshaw, Fewell, and Webster. Some blame is warranted but one would assume they were witches meant to be put on the stake with they way they are talked about here.

Marvelousmik
01-01-2013, 09:38 PM
This year's scapegoats seem to be Gilbride, Tuck, Bradshaw, Fewell, and Webster. Some blame is warranted but one would assume they were witches meant to be put on the stake with they way they are talked about here.

agreed. eli is getting almost all the blame now but up until recently it seemed to be just KG and fewell

Rudyy
01-01-2013, 09:38 PM
id agree with this philosophy if it was possible. But the trend on here is if eli plays bad and we lose its all his fault. however if we win he carried the team. he gets almost all the blame and all the credit. Although i think gilbride takes a little more blame.It is possible, some just choose not to do it.

TheEnigma
01-01-2013, 09:46 PM
agreed. eli is getting almost all the blame now but up until recently it seemed to be just KG and fewell

The reaction when Eli has a bad game seems to be along the lines of "Well, that's just inconsistent Eli" or "Every QB has a bad day" but the other players get it much worse from the fans. Tuck has been our best player in both of our SBs and Bradshaw has worked his butt off with several injuries to be the heart of this team but people were ready to kick them to the streets this year. I just can't feel sorry for Eli when other guys get trashed much harsher.

Rudyy
01-01-2013, 09:48 PM
The reaction when Eli has a bad game seems to be along the lines of "Well, that's just inconsistent Eli" or "Every QB has a bad day" but the other players get it much worse from the fans. Tuck has been our best player in both of our SBs and Bradshaw has worked his butt off with several injuries to be the heart of this team but people were ready to kick them to the streets this year. I just can't feel sorry for Eli when other guys get trashed much harsher.Tuck just irks me a little. He just looks like he doesn't even want to be there sometimes, just do yourself a favor and retire and I mean that in the nicest way possible. I love Justin Tuck to death but he's just not mentally there anymore.

TheEnigma
01-01-2013, 09:55 PM
Tuck just irks me a little. He just looks like he doesn't even want to be there sometimes, just do yourself a favor and retire and I mean that in the nicest way possible. I love Justin Tuck to death but he's just not mentally there anymore.

His body and career were ruined by that jerk Flozell Adams. It might be time to retire or to reduce his snaps but considering what he has done for this franchise, he deserves a little leeway like Eli gets. Same can be said for Bradshaw who everybody wanted to drop like a hot potato because of Wilson and Brown. I do think the reason Eli gets more "coddled" in the Giants fanbase is because of how he was treated and trashed prior to the 2007 Superbowl and to some extent, the 2010 regular season performance he had. There's been such a negative reaction OUTSIDE Giants nation that you now see people being hyper defensive over him even from their own fans.

RoanokeFan
01-01-2013, 10:13 PM
Just ask yourself this... since he's been vying (for years, and that is well documented) for a head coaching position than why has not a single team offered him a job? Coordinators are free game every single year. The Gilbride enthusiasts always bring up the point he's won two super bowls. So if he's so accomplished why does he not appeal to any football team in the collegiate or NFL level.

Gilbride supporters also bring up that our offense is generally always tops in the league... blah blah blah

Don't you think with a top QB in Eli and the superior talent surrounding him that we should always have top offense no matter who the OC is?


Gilbride is a good to average OC. He's nothing more, nothing less and we can absolutely do better and also do worse.

I'd love the opportunity to allow someone to do better.


He's here for at least another season so this is the last Gilbride topic I will make, scouts honor :)... and we can win despite him.

Who says he's been "vying"? I don't want to break this to you, but you need to be asking Reese and Mara, not anyone who hangs out here.

Marvelousmik
01-01-2013, 10:14 PM
Tuck just irks me a little. He just looks like he doesn't even want to be there sometimes, just do yourself a favor and retire and I mean that in the nicest way possible. I love Justin Tuck to death but he's just not mentally there anymore.

+1.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-01-2013, 10:24 PM
Who says he's been "vying"? I don't want to break this to you, but you need to be asking Reese and Mara, not anyone who hangs out here.
Beat reporters, Mike Garafolo and others over the years. It's well documented.

gumby74
01-01-2013, 10:28 PM
I disagree, when Eli makes a play majority of people give credit to everyone not named Eli, and when Eli makes a mistake it's all Eli's fault.
For example the last game of the season, Eli throws 5 td's and when you ask fellow fans about it they say well the Eagles quit, they suck, etc. Eli Manning is truly the Rodney Dangerfiled of the NFL.


In 2011 when Eli played brilliantly, consistently, all season long, did people give credit to Eli? Practically everyone on this board and the media were riding his jock. Consistency breeds confidence. Inconsistency just brings about questions. Eli was inconsistent this year.


And he deserved all the praise last season. If not for him the Giants would have been watching the playoffs on the couch with the rest of us.
And yes Eli was inconsistent this season, but so was the WHOLE team.

I agree. I was just pointing out that Eli deserves all the criticism and praise that he gets. And that there isn't some hidden agenda that the public has against Eli.

Roosevelt
01-01-2013, 11:21 PM
Really?

I would if I didn't see a hundred "ELI SUXXX HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING!" threads.

C'mon. He is responsible for all that has ever been right in Giant land. For without him our organization would be the....Jets.

Rudyy
01-01-2013, 11:24 PM
C'mon. He is responsible for all that has ever been right in Giant land. For without him our organization would be the....Jets.I don't agree with that either.

giantsfan420
01-01-2013, 11:28 PM
His body and career were ruined by that jerk Flozell Adams. It might be time to retire or to reduce his snaps but considering what he has done for this franchise, he deserves a little leeway like Eli gets. Same can be said for Bradshaw who everybody wanted to drop like a hot potato because of Wilson and Brown. I do think the reason Eli gets more "coddled" in the Giants fanbase is because of how he was treated and trashed prior to the 2007 Superbowl and to some extent, the 2010 regular season performance he had. There's been such a negative reaction OUTSIDE Giants nation that you now see people being hyper defensive over him even from their own fans.id say tucks year was about as bad as eli's rookie year...thats extreme. tuck had a terrible year tho

GameTime
01-01-2013, 11:28 PM
ehh...same with all the Fewell pissing and moaning....
its all bull****. They are the coaches and stop crying about it. Hope they do better next season along with the rest of the team....

giantsfan420
01-01-2013, 11:29 PM
i get what ur saying enigma about 44 and tuck. and agree to an extent. but man, tuck saying those things about rg3 just completely enraged me...compounded with his bad play...i dunno, the tuck ragging was warranted imo

Roosevelt
01-01-2013, 11:54 PM
i get what ur saying enigma about 44 and tuck. and agree to an extent. but man, tuck saying those things about rg3 just completely enraged me...compounded with his bad play...i dunno, the tuck ragging was warranted imo

You're so full of crap, but nice try.

OX1
01-02-2013, 08:41 AM
He kept Diehl at RT for 2 games when Locklear was struggling himself. Also, I think that decision was on TC, not KG.

If he thought Barden or Randle were better options earlier, he would have used them. We used Hixon a lot this season.

So thats it??? Killdrive has a struggling offense most of the year, so
he puts in a crappy RT and does not replace an ailing reciever?

I guess it's true he did nothing else. No one has an answer, thats for sure.

Drez
01-02-2013, 04:28 PM
So thats it??? Killdrive has a struggling offense most of the year, so
he puts in a crappy RT and does not replace an ailing reciever?

I guess it's true he did nothing else. No one has an answer, thats for sure.

Who was he going to replace Nicks with? No one stepped up to fill his role. We rotated Hixon in a lot, and he did pretty ok, but none of the receivers established themselves to replace Nicks (or as a 3rd) on a reliable basis. Sure, Randle looked good against the Eagles, but there's no saying that he would have played as well earlier in the season. So, who should have KG put in instead? It's easy to sit there and say, "Gilbride should have sat Nicks," but much another to actually have replacement for him.

What part of Locklear was struggling before Diehl came back is hard to understand? It wasn't like he was playing so lights out that it was a ridiculous notion to see what Diehl could offer. In hindsight should we have stayed with Locklear, yeah I'd say so, but at the time he wasn't playing much better than Diehl.

The problem was the guys on the field weren't taking care of their own ****. Eli's deep ball was little off most of the season, so we lost quite a few opportunities there... The OL (even with Locklear in the line-up) struggled in pass protection much of the season and had been inconsistent in run blocking. Nicks was injured all season, AB was banged up most of the year and Brown went down, leaving us a rookie RB that was suspect in pass pro and some off the street vets. The receivers had issues uncovering most of the year. All of those things combine to form an offense that struggled at times.

BlueReign
01-02-2013, 04:40 PM
Been saying this for a LONG time. The man can draw plays up with the best of them, he just has a hard time making the right calls at the right time,and needs to know when something just doesn't work.

JesseJames
01-02-2013, 04:48 PM
Just ask yourself this... since he's been vying (for years, and that is well documented) for a head coaching position than why has not a single team offered him a job? Coordinators are free game every single year. The Gilbride enthusiasts always bring up the point he's won two super bowls. So if he's so accomplished why does he not appeal to any football team in the collegiate or NFL level.

Gilbride supporters also bring up that our offense is generally always tops in the league... blah blah blah

Don't you think with a top QB in Eli and the superior talent surrounding him that we should always have top offense no matter who the OC is?


Gilbride is a good to average OC. He's nothing more, nothing less and we can absolutely do better and also do worse.

I'd love the opportunity to allow someone to do better.


He's here for at least another season so this is the last Gilbride topic I will make, scouts honor :)... and we can win despite him.

I have to agree with you about Gilbride, even though he is a good OC I also think the game has passed him by and he's no longer in touch with the game of today, I might add TC to the same list, he's a good HC and will be here til he wants to leave or gets talked into leaving but todays game has passed him by also

Drez
01-02-2013, 04:49 PM
I have to agree with you about Gilbride, even though he is a good OC I also think the game has passed him by and he's no longer in touch with the game of today, I might add TC to the same list, he's a good HC and will be here til he wants to leave or gets talked into leaving but todays game has passed him by also
I'm sure you said that before we won the SB last season, too.

CDN_G-FAN
01-02-2013, 04:54 PM
"he is a good to average oc................we can win despite him"

doesn't sound like what you would say about a good to average OC.

JesseJames
01-02-2013, 04:57 PM
I'm sure you said that before we won the SB last season, too. yeah I might have said it because I didn't like Gilbride or Fewell then either, you have to remember that you can't keep looking back at what you did last year even if you did win the SB or this league will run over you...

Drez
01-02-2013, 05:07 PM
yeah I might have said it because I didn't like Fewell then either, you have to remember that you can't keep looking back at what you did last year even if you did win the SB or this league will run over you...
This thread isn't about Fewell...

However, your stance is that the game passed both TC and KG by in one year?

dave56dj
01-02-2013, 05:19 PM
Wait wait - you skipped over the funniest part of the op's post - supporters bring up the fact that we have a top offense every year - blah blah - umm isn't that all we should care about. And no i don't think just cause we have eli means we WILL have a top 10 offense. Also let it be known Coughlin is an offensive coach first and Gilbride really runs a lot of TC's gameplan. Also comparing a 60+ coughlin being hired to Gilbride makes little sense as TC has already won 2 sb's as a coach who is 60 + where as Gilbride would just be starting his journey - the list of good coordinators bad coaches or guys who are satisfied being great coordinators is GIANT.

Spags, Phillips, Capers, Kiffin, Turner, Ryan.
I'll take the top ten offense any day - thats easier said then done even with Eli.

Drez
01-02-2013, 05:48 PM
Wait wait - you skipped over the funniest part of the op's post - supporters bring up the fact that we have a top offense every year - blah blah - umm isn't that all we should care about. And no i don't think just cause we have eli means we WILL have a top 10 offense. But not only that, they say that for the past 30 years KG led offenses have put up excellent number is spite of him. Because, yeah, that makes sense.

dave56dj
01-02-2013, 05:57 PM
Well drez he only knows x's and o's - so that makes sense - other coordinators are better at yelling and scowling.

Drez
01-02-2013, 06:14 PM
Well drez he only knows x's and o's - so that makes sense - other coordinators are better at yelling and scowling.Looks
like Patricia Traina agrees with us, as well: Jeremy S. writes…I’ve heard several people (friends and fellow fans mostly) use lack of interest in Kevin Gilbride as a head coach as an indictment of his skill as an offensive coordinator. To me, this is a foolish statement. There are many coaches who excel as coordinators, yet fail as head coaches (**** LeBeau being one prominent example). I’m of the belief that even though I don’t think that Gilbride would make a good HC, but is still a top OC in the league. Thoughts?
I agree and the proof’s in the pudding – two Super Bowls in what, now 6 years?

http://insidefootball.com/blog/archives/5797

rar57
01-02-2013, 07:05 PM
to run? This offense has to have receivers that can get open. Nicks was hobbled, Cruz was double team with a safety over the top, most games. No running game and there you have it, poor offense. Bennett could get open but drop the ball half the time. If Eli did not thread the needle, we were done this year. :)

Drez
01-02-2013, 07:11 PM
to run? This offense has to have receivers that can get open. Nicks was hobbled, Cruz was double team with a safety over the top, most games. No running game and there you have it, poor offense. Bennett could get open but drop the ball half the time. If Eli did not thread the needle, we were done this year. :)

It's Gilbride's offense and Coughlin's philosophy.

dave56dj
01-02-2013, 08:33 PM
what offense is it that doesn't need wr's to get open - we should run that one. But if we can't figure that out - I say we stay with the guy who continues to run a top ten offense year to year.

and i say we allow the "smart fans" to continue to say they can call every shotgun draw (50 percent of the time its the only way to run out of the draw all the time). Oh and it matters not if it works. Maybe sparano can come install the wildcat. Or we can run the pistol with eli instead of rg3, or maybe more tricklery like the niners? Fans will always have gripes about their coordinators cause they see lots of similar plays but that doesn't mean its easy to defend or not working. You cant put up 30-40 every game.

bashful
01-02-2013, 08:38 PM
Being a good HC and a good coordinator have absolute nothing to do with each other. Some guys are just not cut out to be HC's, despite being excellent coordinators, i.e. **** LeBeau.

So, can people stop bringing this subject up like it's some indictment of KG as an OC; it's just ignorant and makes you look foolish.

If you really believe this you are ignorant. He is average at best and has been fired everywhere he has been except for TC's love for him. We can do much better. The man gets out coached just about every game. He had nothing to do with the two SB wins both times we came from behing and it was Eli calling his own plays not the the troll.

Drez
01-02-2013, 08:39 PM
If you really believe this you are ignorant. He is average at best and has been fired everywhere he has been except for TC's love for him. We can do much better. The man gets out coached just about every game. He had nothing to do with the two SB wins both times we came from behing and it was Eli calling his own plays not the the troll.The only thing ignorant is your post.

dave56dj
01-02-2013, 08:50 PM
our offense scores just to spite gilbride - unreal. Eli may change plays - BUT THEY ARE ALL GILBRIDE AND COUGHLINS PLAYS - he is checking based on a pre box read - BASED ON THEIR OFFENSE. He doesn't draw plays up in the sand. They are top 10 almost every year - because they are talented and have good coaches, including KG. Many fans are limited in their understanding of x's and o's so they see the same plays over and over - but they are not seeing the nuances of a pulling guard or a change in a blocking scheme. Hate gilbride all you want cause you can call a shotgun draw but this is not the giants main problem.

Drez
01-02-2013, 08:52 PM
our offense scores just to spite gilbride - unreal. Eli may change plays - BUT THEY ARE ALL GILBRIDE AND COUGHLINS PLAYS - he is checking based on a pre box read - BASED ON THEIR OFFENSE. He doesn't draw plays up in the sand. They are top 10 almost every year - because they are talented and have good coaches, including KG. Many fans are limited in their understanding of x's and o's so they see the same plays over and over - but they are not seeing the nuances of a pulling guard or a change in a blocking scheme. Hate gilbride all you want cause you can call a shotgun draw but this is not the giants main problem.
Well, it seems to me most fans think that if they can call run or pass that they know the play that's being called.

dave56dj
01-02-2013, 08:58 PM
Even funnier is that they think if they can guess a play right so can the defense (which may be true)- but that doesnt mean they will stop it. The 90 team was the most predictable offense ive seen and wether or not you knew what was coming you weren't stopping it.

Hell lombardi ran sweeps left and right all day and NO ONE was able to stop it - they were machines at running it. I know I know the gun draw doesn't always work but you'd be suprised to learn that most often it does wether called or not.

Drez
01-02-2013, 09:12 PM
Even funnier is that they think if they can guess a play right so can the defense (which may be true)- but that doesnt mean they will stop it. The 90 team was the most predictable offense ive seen and wether or not you knew what was coming you weren't stopping it.

Hell lombardi ran sweeps left and right all day and NO ONE was able to stop it - they were machines at running it. I know I know the gun draw doesn't always work but you'd be suprised to learn that most often it does wether called or not.
With as much film as coaching staffs watch, I'd be surprised if much of anything comes as a surprise... Maybe a few things here or there, but for the most part opposing teams generally know what's coming both offensively and defensively.

cva14
01-02-2013, 09:18 PM
I concur with NYG4Life

Gilbride s very predictable inside the Red Oooops Green Zone. And is our offense so damn complicated that we can never work rookies into the offense like Reid's Eagles, Shanahan's Redskins, and even the Cowboys. I'm tired of this attitude towards rookies. We just can't seem to get our top three picks to shine. Stop. Start. Stutter. Sputter. A glimpse here, a glimpser there. Either they are good and they should move in and play or we didn't have a need at that position. Maybe its a GM issue. Nicks seems to be the only exception to the rule. Cruz was a bluebird. And JPP seems to have peaked. Either the player evaluation is wrong or the system is not allowing these players to reach maximum potential. Which is it?

Next, is it possible that Coughlin overtrains the team and that exlains the physical and mental sag in November? It can happen to any athlete.

dave56dj
01-02-2013, 09:29 PM
Ha we need to be more like reids eagles? We need to be more like shannahans skins? Shanny had awful offenses until a once in a lifetime qb came along. We've had numbers ever since Gilbride came here. Reid runs, RAN BEFORE HE WAS FIRED, a west coast offense which is not unique but flashier for sure and man did that work out well for the last few years WITH ALL THAT TALENT. OTHER TEAMS GET PAID TO STOP US...you dont always score - you sputter you stop you start - OUR OFFENSE IS STATISTCALLY BETTER then everything you are mentioning and yet thats what you want = oh brother.

overtrains the team? Lombardi just flipped in his grave, oh boy.

bashful
01-02-2013, 09:40 PM
The only thing ignorant is your post.

My friend you do not have a clue. You like most look at wins and losses not a quality, adjustment, etc.
Look at this guys record. If i am ignorant you are certainly took the short bus to school.

Drez
01-02-2013, 09:46 PM
My friend you do not have a clue. You like most look at wins and losses not a quality, adjustment, etc.
Look at this guys record. If i am ignorant you are certainly took the short bus to school.
Gilbride's record includes 30 years of having top ranked offenses and 2 SB titles.

Am I forgetting something?

ELIte4MVP
01-02-2013, 09:55 PM
http://m.pfref.com/m?p=XXcoachesXXGilbKe0.htm&t=1

bashful
01-02-2013, 09:56 PM
Gilbride's record includes 30 years of having top ranked offenses and 2 SB titles.

Am I forgetting something?

Yes you are he was not calling the plays in the last two superbowl wins when we had to go to a hurry up offense.. You sound like the troll the best oc in league. Stats are for sports writers and fans.
How many times has he been fired, hit in the head. TC is his only hope for work. If he were let go he would not find a job unless it was a DIII school

ELIte4MVP
01-02-2013, 09:58 PM
Yes you are he was not calling the plays in the last two superbowl wins when we had to go to a hurry up offense.. You sound like the troll the best oc in league. Stats are for sports writers and fans.
How many times has he been fired, hit in the head. TC is his only hope for work. If he were let go he would not find a job unless it was a DIII school

He's coached six teams in almost 20 years. And was long tenured in Houston. Not really like he's been tossed around like crazy

Drez
01-02-2013, 10:20 PM
Yes you are he was not calling the plays in the last two superbowl wins when we had to go to a hurry up offense.. You sound like the troll the best oc in league. Stats are for sports writers and fans.
How many times has he been fired, hit in the head. TC is his only hope for work. If he were let go he would not find a job unless it was a DIII school
If he got let go, he'd be an OC on another team next season.

Tell me this, during those two comeback wins, whose plays was Eli calling in the no huddle? Oh yeah, Gilbride's. Who installs the 2 minute drill with Eli every week and goes over possible play calls vs. expected defenses? Oh yeah, that'd be Gilbride again.

Just about every OC gets fired at some point in their careers.

Only morons bring up Ryan punching Gilbride thinking that it says something more about Gilbride than it does Ryan.

So, again, if you are looking at track record, Gilbride has a track record of running highly successful offenses for nigh 30 years in the NFL and has been the OC of not one, but two Super Bowl winning teams.

Drez
01-02-2013, 10:21 PM
He's coached six teams in almost 20 years. And was long tenured in Houston. Not really like he's been tossed around like crazy
Actually, it's only 5. He was the HC in SD.

JJC7301
01-02-2013, 10:21 PM
Maybe he just doesn't interview well. Lots of reasons why.

Look at Fassell -- guy took his team to 1 SB and while he lost, I'm shocked that he hasn't gotten another opportunity even as an OC. THAT'S crazy. Meanwhile the Chan Gailey's and Eric Mangini's of the world get multiple chances.

ELIte4MVP
01-02-2013, 10:26 PM
It's ok to be frustrated with gilbride at times. But if you were to fire him, there are only a few ocs who'd have the POTENTIAL to be better, and many of them are not available. Couple that with the fact that the risk is not worth the reward, and that's why he's still here. Plus the fact it'll take the offense almost a full season to learn a new offense, on top of any personnel changes on offense that may occur

ozzie0075
01-02-2013, 10:30 PM
It's ok to be frustrated with gilbride at times. But if you were to fire him, there are only a few ocs who'd have the POTENTIAL to be better, and many of them are not available. Couple that with the fact that the risk is not worth the reward, and that's why he's still here. Plus the fact it'll take the offense almost a full season to learn a new offense, on top of any personnel changes on offense that may occur

Exactly the you run the risk of the offense actually getting worse with a new OC.

sheepdip
01-04-2013, 07:51 AM
What is your take on why the offense was no good this year, every time someone makes a comment about the OC you guys remind us of how good he is yet you have no explanation why he is good nor do you have any reasoning why our offense struggled. ?? minus a couple of games where we really padded our stats like Saints, Eagles how would you rate our offense and what do you think the reason was.

Remember now Killdrive is a great OC and cannot be replaced and Eli is a future hall of famer, so explain to us haters what the deal is.

This should be very interesting!!! or are you just devil advocates that try to bring balance to the boards ?

Kruunch
01-04-2013, 07:52 AM
We have no short game.

sheepdip
01-04-2013, 07:56 AM
Are u a supporter of Killdrive ?

Kruunch
01-04-2013, 08:04 AM
Are u a supporter of Killdrive ?

Me? Yes. In so far as the people who call for his head usually have a really bad idea of who to replace him with.

Now if we were to get Norv Turner as an OC, I wouldn't complain.

jakegibbs
01-04-2013, 08:11 AM
What is your take on why the offense was no good this year, every time someone makes a comment about the OC you guys remind us of how good he is yet you have no explanation why he is good nor do you have any reasoning why our offense struggled. ?? minus a couple of games where we really padded our stats like Saints, Eagles how would you rate our offense and what do you think the reason was.

Remember now Killdrive is a great OC and cannot be replaced and Eli is a future hall of famer, so explain to us haters what the deal is.

This should be very interesting!!! or are you just devil advocates that try to bring balance to the boards ?

2 shortcommings that happened this year that did not happened last year.

Passing efficiency was down:
Nicks admitted yesterday or so it was reported on Big Blue Kickoff live that he was hampered more than every this year from years past with his injuries to both foot & knee. In the KG offense it is essential to have 3 viable WR's on the field on passing downs. No exceptions it's a read & react to the secondary route running that Nicks could not perfrom sucessfully. Opponent Ds watch film new this & concentrated more on Cruz who was basically shut down with double coverage. We can kid ourselves all we want to but this offense is built upon big play passing game to flip the field. Another was the fact that they had to break in a new TE again this season. Not sitting Nicks & playing Randle more hurt the passing game IMHO anyway.

Running efficiency was down:
When the NYG run offense was at its pinnacle ask yourself this question. How many RB's were used on a consistant basis? The answer was 3, remember earth wind & fire. This season we suffered more than normal with the loss of BJ then Andre Brown. No big back to soften up the D & bring the safeties closer to the line of scrimmage. We had the wind with Wilson & Fire with Bradshaw but no earth. PS: not playing Wilson more was a mistake IMHO anyway.

If all come back healthy next year I expect another season with close to 5000 yds passing & over 30 TD passing season. If they can get Earth back in the run game that will improve the short yardage problem also.

That's my opinion. I reported now you decide.

RoanokeFan
01-04-2013, 08:14 AM
2 shortcommings that happened this year that did not happened last year.

Passing efficiency was down:
Nicks admitted yesterday or so it was reported on Big Blue Kickoff live that he was hampered more than every this year from years past with his injuries to both foot & knee. In the KG offense it is essential to have 3 viable WR's on the field on passing downs. No exceptions it's a read & react to the secondary route running that Nicks could not perfrom sucessfully. Opponent Ds watch film new this & concentrated more on Cruz who was basically shut down with double coverage. We can kid ourselves all we want to but this offense is built upon big play passing game to flip the field. Another was the fact that they had to break in a new TE again this season. Not sitting Nicks & playing Randle more hurt the passing game IMHO anyway.

Running efficiency was down:
When the NYG run offense was at its pinnacle ask yourself this question. How many RB's were used on a consistant basis? The answer was 3, remember earth wind & fire. This season we suffered more than normal with the loss of BJ then Andre Brown. No big back to soften up the D & bring the safeties closer to the line of scrimmage. We had the wind with Wilson & Fire with Bradshaw but no earth. PS: not playing Wilson more was a mistake IMHO anyway.

If all come back healthy next year I expect another season with close to 5000 yds passing & over 30 TD passing season. If they can get Earth back in the run game that will improve the short yardage problem also.

That's my opinion. I reported now you decide.

I'm not sure you can say Cruz was "shut down" with almost 1,100 yards. I do agree about the 3 WR scheme.

There is no question we are better with either a tandem running game or a three back scheme

jakegibbs
01-04-2013, 08:18 AM
"Don't you think with a top QB in Eli and the superior talent surrounding him that we should always have top offense no matter who the OC is?"

All teams think they have superior talent so what's your point? Look at the dream team or the boys or the deadskins. You don't think they have superior talent?

Kruunch
01-04-2013, 08:19 AM
I'm not sure you can say Cruz was "shut down" with almost 1,100 yards. I do agree about the 3 WR scheme.

There is no question we are better with either a tandem running game or a three back scheme

Can't really say that since we haven't had the horse since Tiki.

RoanokeFan
01-04-2013, 08:53 AM
Can't really say that since we haven't had the horse since Tiki.

I'm not sure I get that. I'm saying we've recently had more success with a multiple back set. Even Tiki had Jacobs for a change up back.

Drez
01-04-2013, 09:13 AM
What is your take on why the offense was no good this year, every time someone makes a comment about the OC you guys remind us of how good he is yet you have no explanation why he is good nor do you have any reasoning why our offense struggled. ?? minus a couple of games where we really padded our stats like Saints, Eagles how would you rate our offense and what do you think the reason was.

Remember now Killdrive is a great OC and cannot be replaced and Eli is a future hall of famer, so explain to us haters what the deal is.

This should be very interesting!!! or are you just devil advocates that try to bring balance to the boards ?
This reasons for this season's offenses have been explained ad nauseum; it's just that your blind hate of KG makes you disregard those explanations out of hand.

Kruunch
01-04-2013, 09:20 AM
I'm not sure I get that. I'm saying we've recently had more success with a multiple back set. Even Tiki had Jacobs for a change up back.

The last 5 years of his career Tiki averaged over 300 carries per year. Then add to that averaging 60+ receptions per year as well.

Ahmad Bradshaw and Jacobs averaged half of that (and a third on receptions).

There's a huge difference between "spelling" and "splitting".

Either can work and no way is better than the other ... it just depends on personnel. If we had Adrian Petersen (or Tiki still for that matter), would you really want to see AB or Jacobs getting half the carries?

P.S.- Jacobs had less than 50 attempts in 2005 and less than 100 attempts in 2006 ... the years he was spelling Tiki.

RoanokeFan
01-04-2013, 09:32 AM
The last 5 years of his career Tiki averaged over 300 carries per year. Then add to that averaging 60+ receptions per year as well.

Ahmad Bradshaw and Jacobs averaged half of that (and a third on receptions).

There's a huge difference between "spelling" and "splitting".

Either can work and no way is better than the other ... it just depends on personnel. If we had Adrian Petersen (or Tiki still for that matter), would you really want to see AB or Jacobs getting half the carries?

P.S.- Jacobs had less than 50 attempts in 2005 and less than 100 attempts in 2006 ... the years he was spelling Tiki.

We clearly don't have a feature back now, IMO. That could always change, but Tiki was unique and carried this team for several years.

Tony Bruno
01-04-2013, 11:07 AM
I said I never bash KG agian after 2 SB wins... While I dont think he is the best, the team has confidence in him and the players are the ones who dont execute... Sometimes he has me scratchin my head but nothing this year made me wonder more than TC electing to go for it on 4th down 3 times int he Atlanta game when FGs could have been made...

When Eli plays like trash so does the rest of the team...

Kruunch
01-04-2013, 11:28 AM
We clearly don't have a feature back now, IMO. That could always change, but Tiki was unique and carried this team for several years.

To my point that we just don't have the horse to run a feature back set.

To be honest, I kind of miss having the all-in-one guy.

RoanokeFan
01-04-2013, 11:48 AM
To my point that we just don't have the horse to run a feature back set.

To be honest, I kind of miss having the all-in-one guy.

And I prefer the tandem/trio as it SHOULD extend their shelf life

Drez
01-04-2013, 12:06 PM
And I prefer the tandem/trio as it SHOULD extend their shelf life
To add my 2 cents, I'm impartial so long as it's working, lol. Though, I must say I do miss having a running back that's a natural receiver like Tiki was. Hoping DW can be that guy moving forward.

Diamondring
01-04-2013, 12:10 PM
And I prefer the tandem/trio as it SHOULD extend their shelf lifeI forgot to tell you that you were right abour our rb situations.

RoanokeFan
01-04-2013, 12:10 PM
To add my 2 cents, I'm impartial so long as it's working, lol. Though, I must say I do miss having a running back that's a natural receiver like Tiki was. Hoping DW can be that guy moving forward.

Success is an amazing healer lol

RoanokeFan
01-04-2013, 12:10 PM
I forgot to tell you that you were right abour our rb situations.

I don't read that very often lol

sheepdip
01-04-2013, 12:32 PM
I think we have the talent on offense even without Nicks. The issue to me is not using everyone properly or lack of changing game plans and offensive strategies.

TheShouldersOf
01-04-2013, 03:11 PM
He utilizes a variation of the 'Run and Shoot' offense, the original conception was designed for a 4 wide set and increase running abilities, his base is normally a Two wide set with the occasional Three, and a one dimensional run game,

he is not a high level Coach, and this Superbowl argument is tiresome, the offense didn't Win the Superbowl or get them into it, the defense got hot and they rode it,

he forces players into his concept which regardless if they won twenty Superbowl's it's an Egotistical way of looking at things, a complex offense for the sake of boasting complexity in the league, you have to be able to adapt to the players and incorporate their strengths and skill sets

RoanokeFan
01-04-2013, 03:17 PM
To my point that we just don't have the horse to run a feature back set.

To be honest, I kind of miss having the all-in-one guy.

But that All-In-One guy gets injured and you have to bring in someone cold off the bench. There are benefits to both, I just like having two or three guys situationally playing every game.

RoanokeFan
01-04-2013, 03:18 PM
He utilizes a variation of the 'Run and Shoot' offense, the original conception was designed for a 4 wide set and increase running abilities, his base is normally a Two wide set with the occasional Three, and a one dimensional run game,

he is not a high level Coach, and this Superbowl argument is tiresome, the offense didn't Win the Superbowl or get them into it, the defense got hot and they rode it,

he forces players into his concept which regardless if they won twenty Superbowl's it's an Egotistical way of looking at things, a complex offense for the sake of boasting complexity in the league, you have to be able to adapt to the players and incorporate their strengths and skill sets

Whose concept should be used?

Morehead State
01-04-2013, 03:25 PM
He utilizes a variation of the 'Run and Shoot' offense, the original conception was designed for a 4 wide set and increase running abilities, his base is normally a Two wide set with the occasional Three, and a one dimensional run game,

he is not a high level Coach, and this Superbowl argument is tiresome, the offense didn't Win the Superbowl or get them into it, the defense got hot and they rode it,

he forces players into his concept which regardless if they won twenty Superbowl's it's an Egotistical way of looking at things, a complex offense for the sake of boasting complexity in the league, you have to be able to adapt to the players and incorporate their strengths and skill sets

1. The only similarity to the Run and Shoot is sight adjustment routes which EVERYBODY runs. In other words, we do NOT run a variation of the Run and Shoot.

2. Since KG has been our OC, we have had the most prolonged period of offensive success I can remember as a Giants fan. Our offense is more dynamic than it has ever been.

I'm not a huge KG fan because he is (in my view) far too rigid in his philosophy, but there is no doubt that he has been a successful OC for us.

Roosevelt
01-04-2013, 03:37 PM
What is your take on why the offense was no good this year, every time someone makes a comment about the OC you guys remind us of how good he is yet you have no explanation why he is good nor do you have any reasoning why our offense struggled. ?? minus a couple of games where we really padded our stats like Saints, Eagles how would you rate our offense and what do you think the reason was.

Remember now Killdrive is a great OC and cannot be replaced and Eli is a future hall of famer, so explain to us haters what the deal is.

This should be very interesting!!! or are you just devil advocates that try to bring balance to the boards ?

The answers should be obvious to you.

1. Injuries to Hakeem Nick, OL, and RB
2. An erratic Eli Manning

RoanokeFan
01-04-2013, 03:50 PM
The answers should be obvious to you.

1. Injuries to Hakeem Nick, OL, and RB
2. An erratic Eli Manning

NO WAY

Mercury
01-04-2013, 04:00 PM
Why discount the SB argument? Isn't that the pinnicle of success and what we are trying to acheive? I'd rather win SBs with Gilbride than have the best offense and not win the big one, ala the Patriots.

Morehead State
01-04-2013, 04:01 PM
NO WAY
This just confirms what we already knew about Rosie....That he's a hater. Not just of Eli, but of all of God's creatures.

RoanokeFan
01-04-2013, 04:04 PM
This just confirms what we already knew about Rosie....That he's a hater. Not just of Eli, but of all of God's creatures.

LMAO, watch the backlash

Morehead State
01-04-2013, 04:05 PM
LMAO, watch the backlash
As you already know...I live for the backlash.

JayMas9
01-04-2013, 04:08 PM
1. The only similarity to the Run and Shoot is sight adjustment routes which EVERYBODY runs. In other words, we do NOT run a variation of the Run and Shoot.

2. Since KG has been our OC, we have had the most prolonged period of offensive success I can remember as a Giants fan. Our offense is more dynamic than it has ever been.

I'm not a huge KG fan because he is (in my view) far too rigid in his philosophy, but there is no doubt that he has been a successful OC for us.I think this is the first rational, fact filled, and legitimate reason ever posted for not being KG's biggest fan. I applaud you.

Roosevelt
01-04-2013, 05:45 PM
NO WAY

And away we go!

http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/5889/98552385.jpg

Roosevelt
01-04-2013, 05:46 PM
This just confirms what we already knew about Rosie....That he's a hater. Not just of Eli, but of all of God's creatures.

Sheepdip? He's only happy when we're down.

Morehead State
01-04-2013, 06:08 PM
Sheepdip? He's only happy when we're down.
Isn't that a "Garbage" song?
I'm Only Happy When It Rains"

Imgrate
01-04-2013, 06:31 PM
If you think kg is a bad coach then ask yourself one question. Why does TC keep him employed? Wouldn't that subsequently make tc a bad coach as well?

dave56dj
01-04-2013, 06:42 PM
Well tc has only won 2 superbowls in 9 years - so he has too be bad right - i mean i suppose we could be one of the 14 teams who have NEVER won a superbowl in their entire history or the 7 in history who have only 1 - or the 3 who have won as many in their entire history.

Sean Montemayor
01-04-2013, 07:10 PM
Because hes 61 years old.And he was in fact a head coach for a year in the NFL. What team?

Morehead State
01-04-2013, 07:46 PM
What team?
San Diego

byron
01-04-2013, 08:25 PM
1. The only similarity to the Run and Shoot is sight adjustment routes which EVERYBODY runs. In other words, we do NOT run a variation of the Run and Shoot.

2. Since KG has been our OC, we have had the most prolonged period of offensive success I can remember as a Giants fan. Our offense is more dynamic than it has ever been.

I'm not a huge KG fan because he is (in my view) far too rigid in his philosophy, but there is no doubt that he has been a successful OC for us. yeah... I think its safe to say that his philosophy today grew out of the run and shoot ...Not sure I'm saying this very well we all start with an idea adjust and grow it into something that works....just my thinking on point one....I totally agree with your other two points especially the stubborn ..old guys stubborn ...learning when to back off and accept many change is needed is the tricky part.....I hate change myself ...