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View Full Version : So do we repair the nascar or make a new system?



appodictic
01-02-2013, 01:23 AM
Tuck and Osi may or may not be with the team next year. They may be serviceable but they are no longer the heart of the defence. So the question is, if we have JPP, do we try to make a big free agent deal and stay focuses with the nascar, or do we move forward building some defence like our three safety package.

I think the latter, Nascar needs 4 solid guys and we do not know what the entire DLine is going to look like next year, with canty etc. I think what we need to do is bring back all three rolle, phillips, brown, find someone to fill in for webster, and get one solid linebacker to solidify that unit. If we can lock in our coverage we should get a good deal of coverage sacks.

So lets think like this Cornerback, Linebacker, who can we bring in?

slipknottin
01-02-2013, 01:26 AM
I have no idea what you are asking

giantsfan420
01-02-2013, 01:29 AM
repair. tuck and or kiwi will be the situational pass rusher. i prefer tuck, bc the way I see it; yes he can play the run very well and play the pass very well. It seems that physical restrictions are preventing him from doing both. case in point, vs Philly he played 26 snaps primarily vs the pass, and he had by far his best game.
its up to PF how to use him bc hes equally as good vs the run. i just think physical limitations are hindering him. if kiwi starts, hes stout vs the run, and he also led the team in pressures one year. altho, i could easily see PF using Kiwi as the situational and Tuck as the starter and im afraid the results will be like this past year.
if we can draft a jpp type DE, JR will do it imo and keep Kiwi as the hybrid to give the rookie some snaps. theres alot of ways to fix this imo

giantsfan420
01-02-2013, 01:30 AM
I have no idea what you are askinghes asking if we should repair our nascar scheme, if its repairable, or to move more towards a coverage scheme with the focus being on the back end, presumably getting as many quality corners bc he mentions the guys we'd keep...am I close OP?

giantsfan420
01-02-2013, 01:33 AM
repair. tuck and or kiwi will be the situational pass rusher. i prefer tuck, bc the way I see it; yes he can play the run very well and play the pass very well. It seems that physical restrictions are preventing him from doing both. case in point, vs Philly he played 26 snaps primarily vs the pass, and he had by far his best game.
its up to PF how to use him bc hes equally as good vs the run. i just think physical limitations are hindering him. if kiwi starts, hes stout vs the run, and he also led the team in pressures one year. altho, i could easily see PF using Kiwi as the situational and Tuck as the starter and im afraid the results will be like this past year.
if we can draft a jpp type DE, JR will do it imo and keep Kiwi as the hybrid to give the rookie some snaps. theres alot of ways to fix this imoto add
altho i cant see JR passing on a DE that can be a bookend freak along with JPP and having strength in numbers like the WR core.

i know we all think our team sucks, but really, we're a RT and G or C away on offense as is (when nicks is healthy). On D, we're a DL that assaults an OL away. Hosely can overtake Webster or we give Webster one more shot. or we can draft a corner. JR doesnt have as many holes as believed around here.

If JR can hit on a money DE in the draft, the entire D is better. If JR can hit on money OL in the offseason, the O is better...

appodictic
01-02-2013, 01:35 AM
hes asking if we should repair our nascar scheme, if its repairable, or to move more towards a coverage scheme with the focus being on the back end, presumably getting as many quality corners bc he mentions the guys we'd keep...am I close OP? yes. That is it. Essentially we lived for years off a potent 4 man rush. With the state of the current starters it may be hard to build a dominant unit like that again. So is it time to move on?

giantsfan420
01-02-2013, 01:45 AM
i think with JPP, we can rebuild it. having that freak is step 1, ala Strahan. It took forever to get our DL to this level too dont forget, like 17 yrs for Strahan man I hope thats wrong. But I think JR thinks lol he can get 1 more year out of Tuck. Kiwi is a nice luxury. Theoretically, JR hits on 2 DE's this draft, the DL is back and better than ever. We need to replace Osi, who hadnt given us much since 2010, not to the level it cant be replaced at least. IF tucks used right, as a situational pass rusher, imo he can be extremely effective. Hes too broke down to do both, the run and pass, well consistently.
But I can see the argument, we got JPP and Tuck, maybe 1 DE, the rest in LB and secondary and worry more bout coverage personnel. we'll see itll be interesting.

imo, we'll go trying to repackage the nascar/pressure scheme

VBGiantsFan
01-02-2013, 01:48 AM
Bring in Bennett to play with his brother. Quality starter across the line from JPP. Bring Tuck in situationally and move Kiwi down from LB. We are one quality DE away from having a successful NascarPackage again IMO.

giantsfan420
01-02-2013, 01:57 AM
I agree, its got to be quality tho, like as good as possible. Don't know if Bennett is that. He'd be a nice addition, but don't know if he'd solve the pass rushing difficulties.

slipknottin
01-02-2013, 01:59 AM
There is really only one team that has a dominant defense without a very good pass rush, and thats the Jets.

And its a lot easier to find more pass rushers than it is to find a Revis.

giantsfan420
01-02-2013, 02:55 AM
thats true. itd be sweet if prince can take another step in his game...i still hold out hope, he did display at times the tools needed to be shut down. would u agree with that?

BlueSanta
01-02-2013, 03:43 AM
Nascar wont work with our current defensive backfield.

We have no corners capable of stopping quick set throws that everyone uses against us when we put the nascar in the game. This year we got owned by the 3 step drop/ shotgun quick set.

We also have not had good coverage from our Lbs nor have they taken away passing lanes very well.

giantsfan420
01-02-2013, 04:10 AM
Nascar wont work with our current defensive backfield.

We have no corners capable of stopping quick set throws that everyone uses against us when we put the nascar in the game. This year we got owned by the 3 step drop/ shotgun quick set.

We also have not had good coverage from our Lbs nor have they taken away passing lanes very well.thats valid but I think Prince and Hosely can do the job. it wasnt that we didnt have a corner capable, it was that webster wasnt capable and teams attacked him unmercilessly. Hosely showed very good mirror ability, he can be a solid starting corner and I think Prince displayed elements of shut down corner level. The DL just has to do something, they cant do nothing and expect positive results.

CDN_G-FAN
01-02-2013, 08:20 AM
given that our new #1 competition in the division is washington, and their entire offense is built on negating a passrush, this would be a good time to shift the 95% emphasis from passrush to a more balanced approach to our defense.

Redeyejedi
01-02-2013, 08:27 AM
given that our new #1 competition in the division is washington, and their entire offense is built on negating a passrush, this would be a good time to shift the 95% emphasis from passrush to a more balanced approach to our defense. Its not just the pass rush u dont think an elite DE can help against the Redskins

GoDeep80
01-02-2013, 08:27 AM
TBH I hate the Nascar because sure we might have 4 DE's on the field but we still get no pressure up the middle and QBs continue to step up and avoid the outside rushers. we need pocket collapsers on the field to avoid that.

SweetZombieJesus
01-02-2013, 08:53 AM
The team is predicated on a pass rush. Hopefuly Tracy and Odomo step up and we can draft even more DEs. Center around JPP, we still have Tuck (although his production is now questionable), move Kiwi back to DE full time to take Osi's place.

Kruunch
01-02-2013, 09:06 AM
My only problem with the Nascar is that it leaves us really soft against the run.

It was a cute wrinkle in '07 ... it's not a defensive scheme that holds up (as evidenced the past 4 years).

Toadofsteel
01-02-2013, 09:21 AM
given that our new #1 competition in the division is washington, and their entire offense is built on negating a passrush, this would be a good time to shift the 95% emphasis from passrush to a more balanced approach to our defense.

At least we know that JPP can stop the run. If we can find another run-stopping DE to start opposite JPP, you'll start seeing a lot less production out of RG3 when he comes to town, merely for the fact that he won't have Osi to run on... hell, even Kiwi is an improvement in that department.

SweetZombieJesus
01-02-2013, 09:49 AM
given that our new #1 competition in the division is washington, and their entire offense is built on negating a passrush, this would be a good time to shift the 95% emphasis from passrush to a more balanced approach to our defense.

They made Demarcus Ware look like a fool.

The rest of the NFC East is playing checkers and Shannahan is playing chess. So let's start playing chess too. Make it so either option meets the same fate, or even use their tendencies against them like a chess player would. Fake the DE rushing inside and have a ghost behind him rushing out. Have the ends learn a RB's counter move. Hit RG3 every time whether he has the ball or not.

appodictic
01-02-2013, 09:49 AM
Bring in Bennett to play with his brother. Quality starter across the line from JPP. Bring Tuck in situationally and move Kiwi down from LB. We are one quality DE away from having a successful NascarPackage again IMO. But a 4 man rush is not just 2 great ends and to "other" guys in the middle, it needs a complete solid front 4 including "the other guys"

45Jones
01-02-2013, 09:52 AM
How do you repair a National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing?

appodictic
01-02-2013, 09:52 AM
They made Demarcus Ware look like a fool.

The rest of the NFC East is playing checkers and Shannahan is playing chess. So let's start playing chess too. Make it so either option meets the same fate, or even use their tendencies against them like a chess player would. Fake the DE rushing inside and have a ghost behind him rushing out. Have the ends learn a RB's counter move. Hit RG3 every time whether he has the ball or not. I would not go that far, they beat us once by a couple points. I am not ready to crown Shannahan yet. It is all predicated on rg3 being mobile and he is already slowing down with injuries.

SweetZombieJesus
01-02-2013, 09:54 AM
How do you repair a National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing?

Make them drive something remotely related to "Stock Cars" instead of tube frame carburated dinosaurs with stickers on them.
Make them drive on road courses instead of one-constant-left-turn ovals.

bigblue58
01-02-2013, 10:01 AM
Tuck and Osi may or may not be with the team next year. They may be serviceable but they are no longer the heart of the defence. So the question is, if we have JPP, do we try to make a big free agent deal and stay focuses with the nascar, or do we move forward building some defence like our three safety package.

I think the latter, Nascar needs 4 solid guys and we do not know what the entire DLine is going to look like next year, with canty etc. I think what we need to do is bring back all three rolle, phillips, brown, find someone to fill in for webster, and get one solid linebacker to solidify that unit. If we can lock in our coverage we should get a good deal of coverage sacks.

So lets think like this Cornerback, Linebacker, who can we bring in?

The Nascar defense sucks and needs to be junked!
This was Fewell's brain child.... which is why it's inconceivable to me that he's keeping his job, when the Defensive package he created and named was so god awfully putrid that it ended up ranked 30th in the league.
I guess Coughlin considers Fewell's system a success because it wasn't ranked dead last....just NEXT to dead last.
Coughlin has lost a lot of credibility with me as a tough coach who holds people accountable. If a 30th ranked Defense doesn't get you fired as a DC, then what possible hope do we have that this team will EVER get better on Defense.

45Jones
01-02-2013, 10:17 AM
Make them drive something remotely related to "Stock Cars" instead of tube frame carburated dinosaurs with stickers on them.
Make them drive on road courses instead of one-constant-left-turn ovals.

Thank you for joining me in OT-land. Just a note, they went to fuel-injection for 2012. Maybe the Giants D-line needs a "Fewell Injection."

:gomer:

Joe Morrison
01-02-2013, 10:28 AM
Need Linebackers that can tackle, some are quick and have decent cover skills but can't tackle.

Mercury
01-02-2013, 10:45 AM
The Nascar package was a nice wrinkle for a while. Other teams weren't ready to see 4 DE on the field and unsure how to handle the situation. You can't catch any team playing us unready for it any more. And so, it has become ineffective. Plus, I think it wears out our DEs like Tuck when he has to try and split two OLinemen.

There is no need to fix the Nascar package. We need to not use it, or use it very sparingly.

bigblue999
01-02-2013, 10:59 AM
Tuck and Osi may or may not be with the team next year. They may be serviceable but they are no longer the heart of the defence. So the question is, if we have JPP, do we try to make a big free agent deal and stay focuses with the nascar, or do we move forward building some defence like our three safety package.

I think the latter, Nascar needs 4 solid guys and we do not know what the entire DLine is going to look like next year, with canty etc. I think what we need to do is bring back all three rolle, phillips, brown, find someone to fill in for webster, and get one solid linebacker to solidify that unit. If we can lock in our coverage we should get a good deal of coverage sacks.

So lets think like this Cornerback, Linebacker, who can we bring in?

NASCAR has never worked and never will work...it is a foolish concept by a foolish DC...we need tough hard nose in your face nose tackle that know how to get up field...bottom line.

BParcells777
01-02-2013, 11:02 AM
there is nothing wrong with it........the DC stubbornly insists on rushing only 4

He should have been fired

Morehead State
01-02-2013, 11:08 AM
NASCAR has never worked and never will work...it is a foolish concept by a foolish DC...we need tough hard nose in your face nose tackle that know how to get up field...bottom line.
The "NASCAR" wrinkle was introduce week 3, 2007 in Washington. All it is is using 4 DE's in passing downs.
That was Spags, not PF. They may not have called it that at the time, but that's where it started.

TrueBlue@NYC
01-02-2013, 02:12 PM
The "NASCAR" wrinkle was introduce week 3, 2007 in Washington. All it is is using 4 DE's in passing downs.
That was Spags, not PF. They may not have called it that at the time, but that's where it started.

Correct, PF didn't introduce the 4 DE package, Spags did in 2007 and it was dubbed the 4Aces package. It worked well for a while but it doesn't seem to work much now. Mainly, I don't think it works anymore b/c Tuck used to be a destroyer when rushing from the inside. Guards and centers just couldn't cope with his speed and athleticism. There's no pressure up the middle so QBs' simply step up.

It's missing that big piece of it now. It's actually a pretty common problem for teams lacking pass rush.

Toadofsteel
01-02-2013, 02:18 PM
Vick and RG3 can scramble like nobody's there, and Romo can use his legs as well. We don't have any pure pocket passers in our division anymore, and as such, Nascar isn't a good thing to use.

I was actually almost thinking about a scheme with extra DT's at one point before Kuhn got injured. The base 5-2-4 formation would be as follows:

Kiwi-Canty-Joseph-Kuhn-JPP
_____Rivers-Williams______
__Prince-Rolle-KP-Hosley__

JPP and Kiwi would stay home and contain the edges, while the three DTs push the pocket back to flush out the QB. Williams would spy the QB, while Rivers would spy the RB. KP would stay back in a deep cover 1, Rolle is in the box, and the CBs in man coverage.