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View Full Version : Hey Reese...the best 43 defences took the linebacker position serious in the draft



Banks_Reasons_Carson_LT
01-02-2013, 06:46 PM
Quit saying we draft scrubs and expect them to perform. Go talk to Parcells who drafted banks at #4 when he already had Taylor, Carson, van pelt and Kelly.

Linebackers set the tone fo the toughness of the unit and your defense is soft.

1985 bears
Otis Wilson round 1
Wilber Marshall round 1
Mike singletary round 2

2000 ravens
Peter bouleware round 1
Ray Lewis round 1
Jamie sharper round 3

2002 bucs
Derrick brooks round 1

2007 bears
Ulacher round 1
Lance Briggs round 3

1970s steelers
Jack ham round 2
Jack lambert round 2


2001 eagles
Jessie small round 2
Byron Evans round 4
Seth Joyner round 8

Cloud57
01-02-2013, 06:56 PM
I think the Giants right now aren't good at evaluating linebackers, just pass rushers.

Harooni
01-02-2013, 06:59 PM
at this point its a little late id say go after 2 real good ones in free agency

Banks_Reasons_Carson_LT
01-02-2013, 07:00 PM
Both banks and armstead are on the giants payroll....you would at least ask their opinion????

Harooni
01-02-2013, 07:04 PM
I agree the position is very important. we should have already drafted one early to develop. now i say look to FA. as of right now we don't even have a true first string LB thats a problem.

Jppallday
01-02-2013, 07:17 PM
Everyone is awfully critical of a GM who has 2 superbowls under his belt in 5 years. We can't win the trophy every year, that's just not realistic. Reese will regroup and our squad will be better next year... Guaranteed

Drez
01-02-2013, 07:32 PM
At least 2 of the defenses you listed aren't even 43s, and 2 of them are Tampa-2s which rely heavily on a MLB that can cover the deep-middle zone.

Our defense is based around DEs, not LBs.

Toadofsteel
01-02-2013, 07:39 PM
At least 2 of the defenses you listed aren't even 43s, and 2 of them are Tampa-2s which rely heavily on a MLB that can cover the deep-middle zone.

Our defense is based around DEs, not LBs.

I think some people are just butthurt that the defense isn't exactly like it was when LT played. But the game evolves, and we have to adjust with it. If you want to see non-adjustment, look at our offense. That's stuck in the 80s and sputters out more often than it works...

That said, PF likes him some Tampa 2...

jomo
01-02-2013, 07:42 PM
at this point its a little late id say go after 2 real good ones in free agencyRight, the salary cap wouldn't allow for that. It is perplexing as to why JR places such little value on linebackers. As a fan who vividly remembers our run starting with Brad Van Pelt and ending with Armstead, it saddens me.

Toadofsteel
01-02-2013, 07:45 PM
Right, the salary cap wouldn't allow for that. It is perplexing as to why JR places such little value on linebackers. As a fan who vividly remembers our run starting with Brad Van Pelt and ending with Armstead, it saddens me.

Moreover, why does he ignore our o-line? Beatty is the only quality player on there...

RoanokeFan
01-02-2013, 07:45 PM
Right, the salary cap wouldn't allow for that. It is perplexing as to why JR places such little value on linebackers. As a fan who vividly remembers our run starting with Brad Van Pelt and ending with Armstead, it saddens me.

Which is why I don't think us old timers will ever see a linebacking corps that we consider elite

brad
01-02-2013, 07:47 PM
Which is why I don't think us old timers will ever see a linebacking corps that we consider elite


I would settle for "good" :)

jomo
01-02-2013, 07:51 PM
Moreover, why does he ignore our o-line? Beatty is the only quality player on there...Funny but he ignored safeties one year and that left us with CC Brown as a starter and a disatrous result that followed...........which led to the big contract for Antrelle and the signing of a bushell full of other safeties.

Drez
01-02-2013, 07:54 PM
Right, the salary cap wouldn't allow for that. It is perplexing as to why JR places such little value on linebackers. As a fan who vividly remembers our run starting with Brad Van Pelt and ending with Armstead, it saddens me.
Because he places more value on the front and back 4.

cva14
01-02-2013, 09:33 PM
Yeah... I would also say that Parcells liked big, very big offensive linemen. Look at the OLs he had with us, Pats, Jets, and was developing at Dallas and Miami. If the truth be known our running attack stank in the last four games of the season except when we won the SB. Our relatively small, finesse, not brute force, OL got worn down, and we couldn't win time of possession and put a rested defense on the field.

jomo
01-02-2013, 09:38 PM
Because he places more value on the front and back 4.We need to draft better at LB, that's where the good value is, not in free agency.

JJC7301
01-02-2013, 11:08 PM
Quit saying we draft scrubs and expect them to perform. Go talk to Parcells who drafted banks at #4 when he already had Taylor, Carson, van pelt and Kelly.

Linebackers set the tone fo the toughness of the unit and your defense is soft.

1985 bears
Otis Wilson round 1
Wilber Marshall round 1
Mike singletary round 2

2000 ravens
Peter bouleware round 1
Ray Lewis round 1
Jamie sharper round 3

2002 bucs
Derrick brooks round 1

2007 bears
Ulacher round 1
Lance Briggs round 3

1970s steelers
Jack ham round 2
Jack lambert round 2


2001 eagles
Jessie small round 2
Byron Evans round 4
Seth Joyner round 8
The '70s Steelers won 4 SBs, but all of those other teams either one 1 SB each or none ('01 Eagles and '07 Bears). The Giants have one 2 with their system of relying on DE's getting to the QB.

I used to be for LB's up until we won last years SB. Now, I just want to focus on the D-line (in particular DE) and pick up LB's where we can get them. We got Armstead in the 7th or 8th RD when he was drafted. Our D stunk this year because the D-Line stunk.

GoDeep80
01-02-2013, 11:16 PM
At least 2 of the defenses you listed aren't even 43s, and 2 of them are Tampa-2s which rely heavily on a MLB that can cover the deep-middle zone.

Our defense is based around DEs, not LBs.Ray Lewis and those other LBs mentioned for the Ravens were drafted when the Ravens were running a 4-3 (oOne of the Best 4-3 ever executed I might add) and we run a very similar version of the Tampa 2 but we try to cover our lack of having a Rangy LB like Urlacher and Brooks by throwing in a Safety.

GoDeep80
01-02-2013, 11:21 PM
Yeah... I would also say that Parcells liked big, very big offensive linemen. Look at the OLs he had with us, Pats, Jets, and was developing at Dallas and Miami. If the truth be known our running attack stank in the last four games of the season except when we won the SB. Our relatively small, finesse, not brute force, OL got worn down, and we couldn't win time of possession and put a rested defense on the field.Yourn right. The Typical Giants offensive lineman is about 6"5 and between 300-315. We don't draft the 325+ maulers like other teams.

Drez
01-02-2013, 11:27 PM
Ray Lewis and those other LBs mentioned for the Ravens were drafted when the Ravens were running a 4-3 (oOne of the Best 4-3 ever executed I might add) and we run a very similar version of the Tampa 2 but we try to cover our lack of having a Rangy LB like Urlacher and Brooks by throwing in a Safety.
Wasn't Urlacher a hybrid LB/S in college?

myles2424
01-02-2013, 11:28 PM
Kevin minter......do it

repeatchamps
01-02-2013, 11:50 PM
Quit saying we draft scrubs and expect them to perform. Go talk to Parcells who drafted banks at #4 when he already had Taylor, Carson, van pelt and Kelly.

Linebackers set the tone fo the toughness of the unit and your defense is soft.

1985 bears
Otis Wilson round 1
Wilber Marshall round 1
Mike singletary round 2

2000 ravens
Peter bouleware round 1
Ray Lewis round 1
Jamie sharper round 3

2002 bucs
Derrick brooks round 1

2007 bears
Ulacher round 1
Lance Briggs round 3

1970s steelers
Jack ham round 2
Jack lambert round 2


eagles
Jessie small round 2
Byron Evans round 4
Seth Joyner round 8

You cannot use the 1985 Bears and 2000 Ravens defenses as examples. They were not traditional 4-3 defenses. After that other than the 1970's Steelers you have ok not great defenses. You also have the 2001 Eagles wrong, I think you are thinking of their late 80's early 90's defenses. Also the late 80's early 90's Eagles you meant to reference were also not a traditional 4-3 defense.

GoDeep80
01-03-2013, 01:03 AM
Wasn't Urlacher a hybrid LB/S in college?Yes he was. Those Tweeners are perfect for Cover 2 systems and are Ideal. looke what Tampa did with Lavonte David, what they did with Derrick Brooks who had Safety speed and coverage ability which is why I think Alec Ogletree is the guy we need in the middle.

Banks_Reasons_Carson_LT
01-03-2013, 04:36 AM
All those defences played with a base Four down linemen irrespective of stunts and coverages.

GiantLegend
01-03-2013, 04:55 AM
Our LBers for Super Bowl 42 were Kawika Mitchell, Antonio Pierce, Reggie Torbor, and Mathias Kiwanuka.

Our LBers for Super Bowl 46 were Chase Blackburn, Michael Boley, Jacquian Williams and Mathias Kiwanuka.

LT is my all time favorite Giant and I agree the LB position is very important, but the list above from the 2 most recent Super Bowls isn't all that impressive. I know our D has had issues at times, but 2 Super Bowls in the past 5 years is pretty damn good.

Captain Chaos
01-03-2013, 05:02 AM
They need to shore up the middle in the run game and that is the bottom line, this team got run over period!

TCHOF
01-03-2013, 06:18 AM
Our LBers for Super Bowl 42 were Kawika Mitchell, Antonio Pierce, Reggie Torbor, and Mathias Kiwanuka.

Our LBers for Super Bowl 46 were Chase Blackburn, Michael Boley, Jacquian Williams and Mathias Kiwanuka.

LT is my all time favorite Giant and I agree the LB position is very important, but the list above from the 2 most recent Super Bowls isn't all that impressive. I know our D has had issues at times, but 2 Super Bowls in the past 5 years is pretty damn good.

and Kiwanuka was injured for SB 42.

M00KIE
01-03-2013, 06:34 AM
At least 2 of the defenses you listed aren't even 43s, and 2 of them are Tampa-2s which rely heavily on a MLB that can cover the deep-middle zone.

Our defense is based around DEs, not LBs.

I guess we better get a couple then, huh? :D

Banks_Reasons_Carson_LT
01-03-2013, 08:00 AM
At least 2 of the defenses you listed aren't even 43s, and 2 of them are Tampa-2s which rely heavily on a MLB that can cover the deep-middle zone.

Our defense is based around DEs, not LBs.

Tampa 2 is coverage not a front.
All those defenses above had a base 43.....go watch you tube

Banks_Reasons_Carson_LT
01-03-2013, 08:03 AM
You cannot use the 1985 Bears and 2000 Ravens defenses as examples. They were not traditional 4-3 defenses. After that other than the 1970's Steelers you have ok not great defenses. You also have the 2001 Eagles wrong, I think you are thinking of their late 80's early 90's defenses. Also the late 80's early 90's Eagles you meant to reference were also not a traditional 4-3 defense.


The 1991 eagles led the NFL in both run and pass defence

repeatchamps
01-03-2013, 10:38 AM
The 1991 eagles led the NFL in both run and pass defence

Just because a team used 4 down linemen doesn't mean they are a real 4-3 defense. I could easily argue that several of the Bears, Ravens and Eagles linebackers you reference could actually be considered extra d-linemen not lb'ers.