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RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 10:14 AM
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/giant...qMvKqFlZLrp39M (http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/giants/on_receiving_end_HNxZ5ewtqMvKqFlZLrp39M)

Excerpt: "Victor Cruz has done enough to convince the Giants he deserves to be wearing his No. 80 jersey and doing his salsa in the end zone for a long time. It is going to cost the Giants dearly, though, to get him locked up with a multi-year deal.

Cruz is set to become a restricted free agent and hes not going anywhere, as the Giants know they cannot operate their offense without his skills at receiver. They would likely tender him on a one-year deal if they cannot agree on a long-term contract.After playing for the NFL minimums the past three years, Cruz wont come cheap, not after two outstanding seasons by a 26-year-old on the upside of his career. His asking price is expected to be somewhere between $8 million and $10 million per year. Cruz made $540,000 this season and the last two years he has been the greatest bargain in the league.

I think I feel comfortable where were at, Cruz said yesterday on his weekly WFAN spot. I think Ive done enough to show them Im a good guy on and off the field and Ive done everything positive up until this point to prove that Im somebody the organization will want to keep around for a long time. Im positive things will come around and a positive outcome will come out of all this.

Cruz has previously said he wanted a new deal in place before the end of the season and revealed weeks ago that he believed the structure for such a deal was in place. Talks, he reported, got tabled for a couple weeks mainly because the two sides agreeing to disagree at the same time. Now that the season is over and the statistics are what they are I think were gonna get back and pick up the pen again and see what we can do.Cruz is one of 22 free agents for the Giants to sort through but he figures to be a top priority. Fellow receiver Hakeem Nicks was slowed all season with foot and ankle issues, allowing opposing defenses to swing the attention to Cruz. Still, he caught 86 passes for 1,092 yards and 10 touchdowns, all team highs. He hasnt missed a game in two years.

A year ago, the free agent market produced some hefty salaries for receivers and Cruz will benefit from that spending spree. After all, he compares favorably to DeSean Jackson (five years, $47 million), Robert Meachem (four years, $25.9 million) and Pierre Garcon (five years, $42.5 million). Cruz two-year totals (168 catches, 2,628 yards, 19 touchdowns) are better than any two seasons put together by Vincent Jackson and he signed a five year, $55.6 million mega deal with the Buccaneers." Read more...

drewz
01-03-2013, 10:18 AM
pass

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 10:20 AM
You realize the headline is an uneducated guess, right?

Moke
01-03-2013, 10:22 AM
That would be ridiculous. They better not even think about this, and neither should Cruz.

repeatchamps
01-03-2013, 10:22 AM
pass

It's happening get over it.

drewz
01-03-2013, 10:22 AM
yes, and I was saying at $8-10 million I would pass on Cruz

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 10:23 AM
u cant compare all the success cruz has had to a guy like vincent jackson bc scheme plays as big a part in cruz's success as anything. its not like he has a trait like speed or strength as the reason he has been successful, meaning, its not guaranteed he goes to another team and is the same player bc on another team, he wont be able to rely on scheme as a trait like a wr would speed, or size. dont get me wrong, cruz is a beast and a helluva player. 8 mil is pricing himself out of our range tho i have to believe. dammit i was hoping he'd be cool in the 5-6 mil range, i really hope he comes down a little to that number per season bc then we will re-sign him long term and then nicks too...

Moke
01-03-2013, 10:23 AM
You guys are harping on someone saying he would pass on that deal if it did come true.

People need a reality check here and stop acting like they're on top of the world.

dakotajoe
01-03-2013, 10:23 AM
How did Desean Jackson get nearly 10million a season?

repeatchamps
01-03-2013, 10:23 AM
That would be ridiculous. They better not even think about this, and neither should Cruz.

Maybe not 8-10 but 6.5 or 7 per year is likely going to happen so people better start getting used to that idea because nothing any of us here say is going to matter.

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 10:24 AM
5-6 mil per year, 5 yr deal, with a signing bonus that wont count to the cap of 10 mil. that way he gets to the 8 mil per mathematically...

repeatchamps
01-03-2013, 10:25 AM
yes, and I was saying at $8-10 million I would pass on Cruz

Fair enough.

repeatchamps
01-03-2013, 10:26 AM
You guys are harping on someone saying he would pass on that deal if it did come true.

People need a reality check here and stop acting like they're on top of the world.

No one is behaving like they're on top of the world. We all need to get used to this happening because this is likely what will end up happening.

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 10:27 AM
How did Desean Jackson get nearly 10million a season?as ridiculous as that is, djax still does have a trait he can depend on regardless of team or scheme; speed.

cruz doesnt have that elite measurement trait, and while cruz is 5x the wr djax is (imo), in the FA market, traits like speed bc the highest priced commodities. look at the mike wallace situation...

dakotajoe
01-03-2013, 10:27 AM
u cant compare all the success cruz has had to a guy like vincent jackson bc scheme plays as big a part in cruz's success as anything. its not like he has a trait like speed or strength as the reason he has been successful, meaning, its not guaranteed he goes to another team and is the same player bc on another team, he wont be able to rely on scheme as a trait like a wr would speed, or size. dont get me wrong, cruz is a beast and a helluva player. 8 mil is pricing himself out of our range tho i have to believe. dammit i was hoping he'd be cool in the 5-6 mil range, i really hope he comes down a little to that number per season bc then we will re-sign him long term and then nicks too...

I didn't read the article but I thought Roanoke said 8 million was an educated guess by the NY Post. The Post isn't the most accurate paper and is known to sensationalize stories.

I definitely wouldn't say Cruz excels mainly due to the scheme. He's the best route runner on the team and can shake a defender to get open unlike many other in the league. I rather have the skill set than a Mike Wallace/Desean Jackson type receiver.

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 10:28 AM
Reese won't overpay for anyone. Let's consider waiting for the actual details to leak out before we start chanting "Cruz Must Go."

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 10:28 AM
I didn't read the article but I thought Roanoke said 8 million was an educated guess by the NY Post. The Post isn't the most accurate paper and is known to sensationalize stories.

I definitely wouldn't say Cruz excels mainly due to the scheme. He's the best route runner on the team and can shake a defender to get open unlike many other in the league. I rather have the skill set than a Mike Wallace/Desean Jackson type receiver.

UNEDUCATED

drewz
01-03-2013, 10:29 AM
You don't overpay system players. The same people who are saying we should give Cruz ~10 million a year are probably the ones that were saying Steve Smith was irreplaceable.

Flip Empty
01-03-2013, 10:30 AM
That article is entirely speculative, don't take it as fact. Cruz's market value would be in that range but who knows what his team is actually asking for.

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 10:31 AM
That article is entirely speculative, don't take it as fact. Cruz's market value would be in that range but who knows what his team is actually asking for.

Jesus, FINALLY

CDN_G-FAN
01-03-2013, 10:35 AM
Cruz could get $10 million a season from somebody.

i'll be absolutely stunned if his contract is $6-$7 million a season. STUNNED.

the 8-10 is an uneducated guess, but its based on multiple contracts for elite WRs in the NFL.

hard to argue that Cruz isn't an elite WR.

i've been saying this for 2 years, we can't pay both WRs in the 8-10 range, and our QB $20 a season, so whatever Cruz gets will largely cast the die of what the giants plan on doing with Nicks.

rainierjef
01-03-2013, 10:35 AM
Attack this post/me all you would like, but....

Cruz! plays too small for me to warrant him a 8-10 mil a year contract, and what i mean by small is he really is scared of getting hit over the middle. Times i have watched him catch the ball and drop to the floor if he doesn't have a clear break away.
What i love about cruz, he is a smart route runner, great speed, can play all three wide out positions, great personality a true giant; classy.
I just don't think he plays big, if he does that then i would agree he is a 8-10 mil a year guy.

TheEnigma
01-03-2013, 10:38 AM
Wow, tensions are high in this thread...


cruz doesnt have that elite measurement trait, and while cruz is 5x the wr djax is (imo), in the FA market, traits like speed bc the highest priced commodities. look at the mike wallace situation...

It's explosion off the line that is valued too because those guys can separate from opposing defensive backs easier on the outside during the initial part of the route. Theoretically, you can teach route running but not speed and explosion. I guess that's how it's seen in the FA market with young receivers.

CDN_G-FAN
01-03-2013, 10:38 AM
Attack this post/me all you would like, but....

Cruz! plays too small for me to warrant him a 8-10 mil a year contract, and what i mean by small is he really is scared of getting hit over the middle. Times i have watched him catch the ball and drop to the floor if he doesn't have a clear break away.
What i love about cruz, he is a smart route runner, great speed, can play all three wide out positions, great personality a true giant; classy.
I just don't think he plays big, if he does that then i would agree he is a 8-10 mil a year guy.

i agree in principal, but are you willing to lose him based on $2-3 mill a season knowing that Nicks style of play is wearing his body down?

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 10:40 AM
Attack this post/me all you would like, but....

Cruz! plays too small for me to warrant him a 8-10 mil a year contract, and what i mean by small is he really is scared of getting hit over the middle. Times i have watched him catch the ball and drop to the floor if he doesn't have a clear break away.
What i love about cruz, he is a smart route runner, great speed, can play all three wide out positions, great personality a true giant; classy.
I just don't think he plays big, if he does that then i would agree he is a 8-10 mil a year guy.its tough for me bc i agree with that, but then i honestly think if i had to pick one wr who reminds me of jerry rice, id say itd be cruz. dont want to quantify that bc thats a diff topic altogether, point is, he can also be easily worth that money too.

he did get alligator arms sporadically, but then again, 86 catches, 1100 plus yards and 10 tds was it? after a 1500 yd season? i dunno, with the ability to go unstopped from the slot, he's a weapon we kinda need...i hope he gives us a break and drops to 6 mil with some sorta signing bonus that wont count towards the cap

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 10:42 AM
Cruz could get $10 million a season from somebody.

i'll be absolutely stunned if his contract is $6-$7 million a season. STUNNED.

the 8-10 is an uneducated guess, but its based on multiple contracts for elite WRs in the NFL.

hard to argue that Cruz isn't an elite WR.

i've been saying this for 2 years, we can't pay both WRs in the 8-10 range, and our QB $20 a season, so whatever Cruz gets will largely cast the die of what the giants plan on doing with Nicks.


The thing Nicks has to worry about though is his injury history. He can put that to rest to some extent if he stays healthy for 16 games in 2013 but that's going to factor into his contract talks.

But, since we don't operate in a vacuum, suppose Randle catches fire in 2013. Having already signed Cruz (assuming), does Nicks become expendable over a certain dollar limit?

Hooligans
01-03-2013, 10:42 AM
Well, if Cruz sticks to his demand for $8 to $10 Million per season then he won't be a Giant in 2013.

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 10:43 AM
its tough for me bc i agree with that, but then i honestly think if i had to pick one wr who reminds me of jerry rice, id say itd be cruz.dont want to quantify that bc thats a diff topic altogether, point is, he can also be easily worth that money too.he did get alligator arms sporadically, but then again, 86 catches, 1100 plus yards and 10 tds was it? after a 1500 yd season? i dunno, with the ability to go unstopped from the slot, he's a weapon we kinda need...i hope he gives us a break and drops to 6 mil with some sorta signing bonus that wont count towards the capwhoa whoa..

rainierjef
01-03-2013, 10:43 AM
i agree in principal, but are you willing to lose him based on $2-3 mill a season knowing that Nicks style of play is wearing his body down?
I would hate to lose him, but it's a little bit more than just that. We cannot keep tying up big contracts into single players, especially with this stringent cap we have. 2-3 mil might be the deciding factor in this, I have no idea what the fair amount to either party is. I am glad it is not my job

rainierjef
01-03-2013, 10:45 AM
whoa whoa..
lmao rudster..... stop it!

Toadofsteel
01-03-2013, 10:45 AM
Reese won't overpay for anyone.

Diehl
Tuck
Webster
Canty
Rolle

And that's just off the top of my head, and not counting overpaids that are on the way out like Osi...

That said, Cruz is worth 7-8M or so...

Ruttiger711
01-03-2013, 10:45 AM
Still thinking 7 year for $7mil/year for around a $50 million dollar deal.

TheEnigma
01-03-2013, 10:46 AM
i agree in principal, but are you willing to lose him based on $2-3 mill a season knowing that Nicks style of play is wearing his body down?

I think this move will come down to our current depth between the outside and slot receiver positions. If you can only keep one (and I sadly think that will be the case) do you trust Jernigan to replace Cruz or Randle to replace Nicks? Usually the tall men with elite speed (Megatron, Julio Jones, A.J. Green, etc) get the big bucks because of how they dominate with their raw athletic ability but those guys also aren't constantly dinged up or have someone like Cruz in the slot competing with them for a long term contract. It's going to be interesting.

Flip Empty
01-03-2013, 10:48 AM
Diehl
Tuck
Webster
Canty
Rolle

And that's just off the top of my head, and not counting overpaids that are on the way out like Osi...

That said, Cruz is worth 7-8M or so...
Those guys are at the end of multi-year contracts... Unfair comparison.

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 10:49 AM
Attack this post/me all you would like, but....

Cruz! plays too small for me to warrant him a 8-10 mil a year contract, and what i mean by small is he really is scared of getting hit over the middle. Times i have watched him catch the ball and drop to the floor if he doesn't have a clear break away.
What i love about cruz, he is a smart route runner, great speed, can play all three wide out positions, great personality a true giant; classy.
I just don't think he plays big, if he does that then i would agree he is a 8-10 mil a year guy.

I honestly don't know what playing "small" means and while I don't agree he's the next Jerry Rice, he's had back to back 1,000 yard games. The first season he had Nicks to take some of the pressure off. The second season he didn't and only dropped by 400 yards. I'm not saying that's worth $10M here, but it's not beyond belief to see some team coming at him with that offer.

ny06
01-03-2013, 10:49 AM
Diehl
Tuck
Webster
Canty
Rolle

And that's just off the top of my head, and not counting overpaids that are on the way out like Osi...

That said, Cruz is worth 7-8M or so...
We got a bargain on Tuck's contract. At the time when the Giants gave him an extension he was a top 5 defensive end in this league

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 10:50 AM
Diehl
Tuck
Webster
Canty
Rolle

And that's just off the top of my head, and not counting overpaids that are on the way out like Osi...

That said, Cruz is worth 7-8M or so...


No one was complaining when those contracts were entered into.

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 10:51 AM
whoa whoa..REMINDS me...im not saying he is. but cruz honestly does remind me of rice in how just running routes gets both open over n over. not the biggest or fastest could be ascribed to both, i dunno. they both wear 80...lol cruz does remind me of him. a lot.

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 10:51 AM
Well, if Cruz sticks to his demand for $8 to $10 Million per season then he won't be a Giant in 2013.

CRUZ IS N OT MAKING THAT DEMAND, that is the writer's uneducated guess

Flip Empty
01-03-2013, 10:51 AM
he's a weapon we kinda need...i hope he gives us a break and drops to 6 mil with some sorta signing bonus that wont count towards the cap
After seeing what happens when Nicks is hobbled, I really don't think the team can afford to let him go. Sad thing is, they can't really afford to let him stay, either...

Knowing Reese he'll probably give him what he wants and then restructure the hell out of the contract.

Ruttiger711
01-03-2013, 10:52 AM
Cruz could get $10 million a season from somebody.

i'll be absolutely stunned if his contract is $6-$7 million a season. STUNNED.

the 8-10 is an uneducated guess, but its based on multiple contracts for elite WRs in the NFL.

hard to argue that Cruz isn't an elite WR.

i've been saying this for 2 years, we can't pay both WRs in the 8-10 range, and our QB $20 a season, so whatever Cruz gets will largely cast the die of what the giants plan on doing with Nicks.

I think Cruz may have knocked himself off the "elite" status with his crucial drops and teams better able to counter his getting AS open with a year of film and documented tendencies behind him. His home run TD YAC catches went down to from the previous year.

Sure all receivers drop balls - and im not saying its fair, but he had some big drops IMO that probably could make the difference of $2mil or so a year.

I want him to be a Giant for life, but I dont see it for more than a 7&7 for about 50 mil.

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 10:53 AM
and its why i can argue that the diff. from 6-8 mil, or even 6 to 10 mil, is worth it when ur getting what cruz will give us every year. what he gives us wont suddenly go away, we didnt even have another true outside guy much of the year and cruz still did his thing. give him a healthy nicks and watch out...im torn. i can see both sides.

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 10:55 AM
i mean to add to the cruz reminds me of rice statement, cruz does the salsa after TDs and Rice did Dancing with the stars lol, anyone telling me they arent similar is the one needing their statement checked

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 10:57 AM
i mean to add to the cruz reminds me of rice statement, cruz does the salsa after TDs and Rice did Dancing with the stars lol, anyone telling me they arent similar is the one needing their statement checked

Oy

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 10:58 AM
I think Cruz may have knocked himself off the "elite" status with his crucial drops and teams better able to counter his getting AS open with a year of film and documented tendencies behind him. His home run TD YAC catches went down to from the previous year.

Sure all receivers drop balls - and im not saying its fair, but he had some big drops IMO that probably could make the difference of $2mil or so a year.

I want him to be a Giant for life, but I dont see it for more than a 7&7 for about 50 mil.

In PFF's top 50 free agent list, Cruz is # 3

http://nfltraderumors.co/top-50-2013-nfl-free-agents/

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 11:00 AM
i mean to add to the cruz reminds me of rice statement, cruz does the salsa after TDs and Rice did Dancing with the stars lol, anyone telling me they arent similar is the one needing their statement checkedHow is that even a correlation? Ok so they both dance, one on tv and one on the football field. That doesnt mean they are similar..

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 11:00 AM
How is that even a correlation? Ok so they both dance, one on tv and one on the football field. That doesnt mean they are similar..

I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm

TheEnigma
01-03-2013, 11:01 AM
i mean to add to the cruz reminds me of rice statement, cruz does the salsa after TDs and Rice did Dancing with the stars lol, anyone telling me they arent similar is the one needing their statement checked

Your comparison has some merit but since a good deal of people consider Rice the greatest player of all time, it just catches folks off guard. Same thing when 3-4 OLBS are compared to Taylor with such haste. Anyway, let's talk about this Cruz contract situation and all the factors.

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 11:02 AM
Oywhat i cant make jokes? well i guess since i have to ask, I guess not. but all kidding aside, it was prob a bad comparison, just yet. I see similarities, but its a strong comment. of course if someone disagrees, cant blame em. just something about how both were able to run their routes a certain way to keep getting open no matter what. both dont have some sort of trait to fall back on like speed or size, just a rare blend of skills that produce a damn effective wr

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 11:02 AM
I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm I hope it is.

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 11:03 AM
How is that even a correlation? Ok so they both dance, one on tv and one on the football field. That doesnt mean they are similar..right over ur head on that one, perhaps if i switch to DarkSaint the jokes will get funnier

Ruttiger711
01-03-2013, 11:04 AM
In PFF's top 50 free agent list, Cruz is # 3

I dont doubt it, if any receiver he reminds me of is a slightly smaller version of Fitz.

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 11:04 AM
and anyways, i was just thinking of it in that regard bc Im trying to justify why paying 10 mil is necessary if thats what it takes to keep him. i dont think his success is suddenly gonna go away. seems like the sustained sort of skill set.

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 11:05 AM
right over ur head on that one, perhaps if i switch to DarkSaint the jokes will get funnierHaving two accounts is funnier than what you said.

CDN_G-FAN
01-03-2013, 11:05 AM
The thing Nicks has to worry about though is his injury history. He can put that to rest to some extent if he stays healthy for 16 games in 2013 but that's going to factor into his contract talks.

But, since we don't operate in a vacuum, suppose Randle catches fire in 2013. Having already signed Cruz (assuming), does Nicks become expendable over a certain dollar limit?

i already think Nicks is the odd man out. i think they're counting on Randle continue to develop the way he looked like he was a the end of the season, and i don't see Nicks suddenly becoming so much more durable given his style of play. right or wrong, Cruz will be on the field more based on how he plays.

just like Osi's fate being decided by what we did with his follow positionmates, the same thing applies to Nicks. if cruz gets 8-10, then nicks won't get more than what you'd expect an older injury prone player to get.

Flip Empty
01-03-2013, 11:06 AM
Thread is collapsing like the Giants' season

Moke
01-03-2013, 11:07 AM
and anyways, i was just thinking of it in that regard bc Im trying to justify why paying 10 mil is necessary if thats what it takes to keep him. i dont think his success is suddenly gonna go away. seems like the sustained sort of skill set.

What loser makes 2-3 accounts on a forum? Rofl

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 11:08 AM
Having two accounts is funnier than what you said.some one thinking jokes about a person having 2 names is funny, is funnier. some one who erroneously believes 2 seperate people are the same, and then that jokes about that are funny, is the funniest. all for different reasons, in different ways. but its off topic, sorry. I wanted to try and make off handed quips like urs last night. i was right, it did feel pathetic. lol. ANYWAYS, back to the topic at hand, what was it again?

Cloud57
01-03-2013, 11:09 AM
$8-10 million? if that happens get used to having the 32th ranked defense for years to come since we won't be able to pay anyone.

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 11:09 AM
what i cant make jokes? well i guess since i have to ask, I guess not. but all kidding aside, it was prob a bad comparison, just yet. I see similarities, but its a strong comment. of course if someone disagrees, cant blame em. just something about how both were able to run their routes a certain way to keep getting open no matter what. both dont have some sort of trait to fall back on like speed or size, just a rare blend of skills that produce a damn effective wr

You need to lighten up, it was clear to me it was a joke which was indicated by "Oy"

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 11:11 AM
Thread is collapsing like the Giants' seasonha classic.

Just bc I feel partly responsible for other peoples sudden loss of IQ just under 80, I feel Cruz will get a 5 yr, 30 mil contract with some sort of 10 mil signing bonus, so itll equate to 8 mil a year or around there, and not hurt the cap too badly. i can see it being worth 10 mil too, but god i hope not.

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 11:11 AM
i already think Nicks is the odd man out. i think they're counting on Randle continue to develop the way he looked like he was a the end of the season, and i don't see Nicks suddenly becoming so much more durable given his style of play. right or wrong, Cruz will be on the field more based on how he plays.

just like Osi's fate being decided by what we did with his follow positionmates, the same thing applies to Nicks. if cruz gets 8-10, then nicks won't get more than what you'd expect an older injury prone player to get.

Let's see if they sign Hixon early. He gives them a dependability factor when any "elite" receiver falters.

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 11:11 AM
You need to lighten up, it was clear to me it was a joke which was indicated by "Oy"ha i was lightened on that too, i cant even kid around. <- still being sarcastic. im just not very good at it.

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 11:12 AM
some one thinking jokes about a person having 2 names is funny, is funnier. some one who erroneously believes 2 seperate people are the same, and then that jokes about that are funny, is the funniest. all for different reasons, in different ways. but its off topic, sorry. I wanted to try and make off handed quips like urs last night. i was right, it did feel pathetic. lol. ANYWAYS, back to the topic at hand, what was it again?Lol what did I just read..uh yeah anyway, I'm not sure if you truly believe Cruz is similar to Jerry Rice or not and if you do then that's fine, but that is an extremely laughable comparison. $8-10 million is a lot of money, and while Cruz is an important part to this team, he is very inconsistent.

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 11:13 AM
ha i was lightened on that too, i cant even kid around. <- still being sarcastic. im just not very good at it.

USE RED FONT lol

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 11:14 AM
$8-10 million? if that happens get used to having the 32th ranked defense for years to come since we won't be able to pay anyone.its gonna be rough. we may have to have a year of cutting some serious fat, and thatll mean we lose some great players too...its a tough situation. but id rather be in this situation than having to try and find a cruz...

CDN_G-FAN
01-03-2013, 11:15 AM
its gonna be rough. we may have to have a year of cutting some serious fat, and thatll mean we lose some great players too...its a tough situation. but id rather be in this situation than having to try and find a cruz...

GREAT POINT. GREAT.

look to the senior citizens of our boards for true perspective.

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 11:18 AM
its gonna be rough. we may have to have a year of cutting some serious fat, and thatll mean we lose some great players too...its a tough situation. but id rather be in this situation than having to try and find a cruz...

The one thing we don't have any idea about is who is Reese going to release and what's that effect on the CAP? I would imagine he already has that list penciled in.

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 11:19 AM
we all have to remember, good wrs are not tough to replace, well they are but it can be done. Its gonna be near impossible finding another "Cruz"...now, economically, we did get 2 amazing years at bargain price. economically, and solely from that angle, itd make sense to not overpay, AT ALL. and let him go if he goes over a very cap friendly number. and u can do that, if u believe u can find another Cruz, and sustain the practice of finding "him", letting him go, and finding "him" all over again.
OR, do you look at it from, itll be near impossible to find another bargain like we had with Cruz, and that to have to pay market, and jeopardize other aspects of the team, is still worth it for the sustained success he will give us...

but then, can this offense produce another aspect to have similar success? its such a tough situation, I can see it from both sides.

Harooni
01-03-2013, 11:20 AM
YOU GUYS ARE DREAMING TOP WR commands the going rate, he probably will take less to stay here but it will still be a high figure to lock him up during his prime.


now maybe some of you will see the problem with all the restructuring and bloated contracts hitting us now.

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 11:21 AM
The one thing we don't have any idea about is who is Reese going to release and what's that effect on the CAP? I would imagine he already has that list penciled in.from what i understand from people with better understanding of the issue, with how JR has backloaded a lot of the contracts with all the restructuring, we're in a position that were we to cut the players hurting our cap the most, the difference would be negligible bc of the cap penalty. Im sure JR and the FO can figure it out, but its gonna take work. which is why i can understand if JR is gonna stick to a price he wont overpay on bc we have to...

Harooni
01-03-2013, 11:24 AM
from what i understand from people with better understanding of the issue, with how JR has backloaded a lot of the contracts with all the restructuring, we're in a position that were we to cut the players hurting our cap the most, the difference would be negligible bc of the cap penalty. Im sure JR and the FO can figure it out, but its gonna take work. which is why i can understand if JR is gonna stick to a price he wont overpay on bc we have to... correct

but it was his fault for not taking those cap hits sooner and as it turned out many of those guys were already under performing. last off season he could have dumped a few. now some are on the last year or two of these contracts

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 11:25 AM
from what i understand from people with better understanding of the issue, with how JR has backloaded a lot of the contracts with all the restructuring, we're in a position that were we to cut the players hurting our cap the most, the difference would be negligible bc of the cap penalty. Im sure JR and the FO can figure it out, but its gonna take work. which is why i can understand if JR is gonna stick to a price he wont overpay on bc we have to...

I know they'll figure it out, I just wish I understood the "caponomics"(stolen word) better

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 11:25 AM
YOU GUYS ARE DREAMING TOP WR commands the going rate, he probably will take less to stay here but it will still be a high figure to lock him up during his prime.


now maybe some of you will see the problem with all the restructuring and bloated contracts hitting us now.is that the nassir nahim dude who thinks the sun is some sorta vortex? sorry id pm, but not that interested...

and we are all hoping he stays at a hometown discount, but he already gave us 2 phenomenal years at league min...lol...cant blame him if his hometown discount number is higher than what the FO has in mind

CDN_G-FAN
01-03-2013, 11:27 AM
i think cruz is a bit of a unique situation, because he's not just great on the field, the coaches and fellow players comment on how hard core his work ethic is off the field, couple that with the community stuff he does (coughlin mentioned it a couple times this year) and i think throughout the organization, if they're going to dig deep to sign a player it'll probably be him.

also, look at how he's approached this contract situation. nothing but completely professional. 100%. Flawless. Compare it to how Osi has gone about things.

i get it if we sign him to a big number, and i get it if we don't.

we also don't know what they think of nicks. are they looking forward to him getting back to 100%, or are they questioning how many games a year will he be 100% going forward? another strategy is paying one of the two the big money and then paying what you think you can afford for the other one. that could have a huge impact on what they're willing to commit to Cruz. We were paying $10 mill a season last year for the Bradshaw/Jacobs combo, maybe they have a $16 mill a year for starting WR number on their chart and they'll divide it up how they see fit? Who knows.

to me one things for sure, cruz may be willing to give the hometown discount, but he certainly doesn't have to, and reese has shown that he'll walk away from almost anyone if he doesn't think he's getting value. good news is everyone makes it sound like things are going well. thank god.

Mlerman17
01-03-2013, 11:27 AM
Another thing to consider is that Cruz is older than nicks but not injury prone. I would not overpay for Cruz. There were some alarming games this season where he simply did not show up.

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 11:29 AM
correct

but it was his fault for not taking those cap hits sooner and as it turned out many of those guys were already under performing. last off season he could have dumped a few. now some are on the last year or two of these contractsto me, that is the most fair critique of JR, that he waited and actually worsened the cap hits in some instances. but then again, can u blame him with how we won a sb? he prob figured he could squeeze another year out before wholesale changes in hopes of another SB...i think its why a lot of the guys who've been here longest have been emotional, i think the realization is we cant delay those cap hit issues any longer...but then how does a cruz situation factor?

lets not forget the RFA tender, JR can very well put this off, but then we 99% wont be able to keep both nicks n cruz unless JR does some masterful reworking of the cap

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 11:29 AM
i think cruz is a bit of a unique situation, because he's not just great on the field, the coaches and fellow players comment on how hard core his work ethic is off the field, couple that with the community stuff he does (coughlin mentioned it a couple times this year) and i think throughout the organization, if they're going to dig deep to sign a player it'll probably be him.also, look at how he's approached this contract situation. nothing but completely professional. 100%. Flawless. Compare it to how Osi has gone about things.i get it if we sign him to a big number, and i get it if we don't.we also don't know what they think of nicks. are they looking forward to him getting back to 100%, or are they questioning how many games a year will he be 100% going forward? another strategy is paying one of the two the big money and then paying what you think you can afford for the other one. that could have a huge impact on what they're willing to commit to Cruz. We were paying $10 mill a season last year for the Bradshaw/Jacobs combo, maybe they have a $16 mill a year for starting WR number on their chart and they'll divide it up how they see fit? Who knows.to me one things for sure, cruz may be willing to give the hometown discount, but he certainly doesn't have to, and reese has shown that he'll walk away from almost anyone if he doesn't think he's getting value. good news is everyone makes it sound like things are going well. thank god.Good post.

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 11:30 AM
i think cruz is a bit of a unique situation, because he's not just great on the field, the coaches and fellow players comment on how hard core his work ethic is off the field, couple that with the community stuff he does (coughlin mentioned it a couple times this year) and i think throughout the organization, if they're going to dig deep to sign a player it'll probably be him.

also, look at how he's approached this contract situation. nothing but completely professional. 100%. Flawless. Compare it to how Osi has gone about things.

i get it if we sign him to a big number, and i get it if we don't.

we also don't know what they think of nicks. are they looking forward to him getting back to 100%, or are they questioning how many games a year will he be 100% going forward? another strategy is paying one of the two the big money and then paying what you think you can afford for the other one. that could have a huge impact on what they're willing to commit to Cruz. We were paying $10 mill a season last year for the Bradshaw/Jacobs combo, maybe they have a $16 mill a year for starting WR number on their chart and they'll divide it up how they see fit? Who knows.

to me one things for sure, cruz may be willing to give the hometown discount, but he certainly doesn't have to, and reese has shown that he'll walk away from almost anyone if he doesn't think he's getting value. good news is everyone makes it sound like things are going well. thank god.i think this summarizes the situation as good as possible.

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 11:31 AM
i think cruz is a bit of a unique situation, because he's not just great on the field, the coaches and fellow players comment on how hard core his work ethic is off the field, couple that with the community stuff he does (coughlin mentioned it a couple times this year) and i think throughout the organization, if they're going to dig deep to sign a player it'll probably be him.

also, look at how he's approached this contract situation. nothing but completely professional. 100%. Flawless. Compare it to how Osi has gone about things.

i get it if we sign him to a big number, and i get it if we don't.

we also don't know what they think of nicks. are they looking forward to him getting back to 100%, or are they questioning how many games a year will he be 100% going forward? another strategy is paying one of the two the big money and then paying what you think you can afford for the other one. that could have a huge impact on what they're willing to commit to Cruz. We were paying $10 mill a season last year for the Bradshaw/Jacobs combo, maybe they have a $16 mill a year for starting WR number on their chart and they'll divide it up how they see fit? Who knows.

to me one things for sure, cruz may be willing to give the hometown discount, but he certainly doesn't have to, and reese has shown that he'll walk away from almost anyone if he doesn't think he's getting value. good news is everyone makes it sound like things are going well. thank god.

He's almost a Mara :)

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 11:32 AM
thats another reality too, JR tenders Cruz ala the Wallace situation, puts it off, and then has Nicks n Cruz's year determine who gets the contract and the other one walks...and that would be super interesting with guys like Randle and JJ on the squad bc u have to think how they develop plays a big part in the equation if it goes that route, pardon the pun

Harooni
01-03-2013, 11:34 AM
is that the nassir nahim dude who thinks the sun is some sorta vortex? sorry id pm, but not that interested...

and we are all hoping he stays at a hometown discount, but he already gave us 2 phenomenal years at league min...lol...cant blame him if his hometown discount number is higher than what the FO has in mind

agreed , i dont blame him at all

ps- thats phillip coppens - ancient alien commentator and author

Flip Empty
01-03-2013, 11:34 AM
lets not forget the RFA tender, JR can very well put this off, but then we 99% wont be able to keep both nicks n cruz unless JR does some masterful reworking of the cap
This is one thing that I think could possibly work in the Giants' favour - Cruz wants to get paid, right? Perhaps he accepts a lower rate with more security just to avoid having to risk another year before cashing in?

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 11:36 AM
This is one thing that I think could possibly work in the Giants' favour - Cruz wants to get paid, right? Perhaps he accepts a lower rate with more security just to avoid having to risk another year before cashing in?

I think they will get a long-term deal done that neither side will regret

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 11:36 AM
This is one thing that I think could possibly work in the Giants' favour - Cruz wants to get paid, right? Perhaps he accepts a lower rate with more security just to avoid having to risk another year before cashing in?

The CAP reportedly is supposed to have a significant bump in 2014

Harooni
01-03-2013, 11:38 AM
to me, that is the most fair critique of JR, that he waited and actually worsened the cap hits in some instances. but then again, can u blame him with how we won a sb? he prob figured he could squeeze another year out before wholesale changes in hopes of another SB...i think its why a lot of the guys who've been here longest have been emotional, i think the realization is we cant delay those cap hit issues any longer...but then how does a cruz situation factor?

lets not forget the RFA tender, JR can very well put this off, but then we 99% wont be able to keep both nicks n cruz unless JR does some masterful reworking of the cap

i like reese but it was pretty clear we could have replaced a few guys and saved a bit for the future, fresh off a SB win was the perfect time really.
if he again resctrutures to get under instead of cutting guys flat out and saving what he can, we then have the same problem next season and so on, and then we have no $$$ to sign much needed upgrades as well as retain our own FA.

he has his work cut out for him right now.

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 11:47 AM
i like reese but it was pretty clear we could have replaced a few guys and saved a bit for the future, fresh off a SB win was the perfect time really. if he again resctrutures to get under instead of cutting guys flat out and saving what he can, we then have the same problem next season and so on, and then we have no $$$ to sign much needed upgrades as well as retain our own FA. he has his work cut out for him right now.He has no choice now.

gumby74
01-03-2013, 11:47 AM
thats another reality too, JR tenders Cruz ala the Wallace situation, puts it off, and then has Nicks n Cruz's year determine who gets the contract and the other one walks...and that would be super interesting with guys like Randle and JJ on the squad bc u have to think how they develop plays a big part in the equation if it goes that route, pardon the pun

This x100. I think this approach is the smartest way. If I had to choose between a Healthy Nicks or a Healthy Cruz for 10 million, it would be Nicks every day. I agree with Ranier that Cruz lacks physicality. If you look at the top end WRs, they all have that physicality about them. To determine a WR's worth, the question you have to ask I think is, how well would he do on a bad team? I have no doubts that Nicks would be able to battle other defenders for poorly thrown balls in lots of traffic. Cruz? I don't think so.

Harooni
01-03-2013, 11:54 AM
if we slap cruz with a tender for example. he is still free to negotiate with other teams and if signed we get a draft pick and lose him, if we dont match that offer.

gumby74
01-03-2013, 11:57 AM
if we slap cruz with a tender for example. he is still free to negotiate with other teams and if signed we get a draft pick and lose him, if we dont match that offer.

True, but i dont' think Cruz is some immense talent that couldn't be found in the first round.

Harooni
01-03-2013, 11:59 AM
True, but i dont' think Cruz is some immense talent that couldn't be found in the first round. he is pretty unique and is a good fit with Eli. again if we dont have other ridiculous contracts and cap hits , locking him up would be a no brainer the man is in his prime

Flip Empty
01-03-2013, 12:01 PM
True, but i dont' think Cruz is some immense talent that couldn't be found in the first round.
Look at what Pierre Garon received from the Redskins. If the Giants won't pay Cruz, some other team will.

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 12:01 PM
True, but i dont' think Cruz is some immense talent that couldn't be found in the first round.Would you risk drafting a WR in the first round though knowing our holes?

CDN_G-FAN
01-03-2013, 12:09 PM
This x100. I think this approach is the smartest way. If I had to choose between a Healthy Nicks or a Healthy Cruz for 10 million, it would be Nicks every day. I agree with Ranier that Cruz lacks physicality. If you look at the top end WRs, they all have that physicality about them. To determine a WR's worth, the question you have to ask I think is, how well would he do on a bad team? I have no doubts that Nicks would be able to battle other defenders for poorly thrown balls in lots of traffic. Cruz? I don't think so.

Nicks having a healthy season doesn't mean nicks is now healthy. Everyone keeps wanting to evalute nicks as if he's 100%. he's not. his style of play is wearing him down.

and we may be in a situation where we can get cruz at a discount based on negotiating with him now. put him off for a year and subject him to potentially getting injured and reducing his market value significantly, and the trade off is if we choose to go with cruz we may have to pay alot more for him.

i'd definitely prefer a healthy nicks to cruz. few wouldn't. but that's not where we find ourselves right now.

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 12:10 PM
True, but i dont' think Cruz is some immense talent that couldn't be found in the first round.

He's a damn good talent who has worked in this system for three years and had back to back 1,000 yard seasons. I can't imagine replacing him with a draft pick and not losing ground.

If we go for WR first round, the problems we are having do not get addressed once again.

Harooni
01-03-2013, 12:11 PM
He's a damn good talent who has worked in this system for three years and had back to back 1,000 yard seasons. I can't imagine replacing him with a draft pick and not losing ground. well said

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 12:22 PM
heres a question just for the sake of debate, but it is relevant: suppose we kept nicks and let cruz go in some alternate dimension. could nicks be a slot threat the way cruz is, not in how they accomplish the end result, but in the success of the end result? in less complicated words, can nicks achieve a level of success comparable to the level of success Cruz has had from the slot, even if its through different ways? IE, using Nicks like NO uses Colston...


I only ask bc the one thing that could falsely elevate Cruz's worth is the play from the slot. Hes amazing, maybe the best at it. But a big part of that is the scheme. He's an amazing wr i hate coming from a position of letting him walk bc it feels like im slighting him, im just trying to think about it from all angles

TCHOF
01-03-2013, 12:24 PM
This x100. I think this approach is the smartest way. If I had to choose between a Healthy Nicks or a Healthy Cruz for 10 million, it would be Nicks every day. I agree with Ranier that Cruz lacks physicality. If you look at the top end WRs, they all have that physicality about them. To determine a WR's worth, the question you have to ask I think is, how well would he do on a bad team? I have no doubts that Nicks would be able to battle other defenders for poorly thrown balls in lots of traffic. Cruz? I don't think so.

.Except that it is looking like we may never get a 100% healthy Nicks for a full season, so that has to be taken into account when comparing the two.

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 12:27 PM
H
heres a question just for the sake of debate, but it is relevant: suppose we kept nicks and let cruz go in some alternate dimension. could nicks be a slot threat the way cruz is, not in how they accomplish the end result, but in the success of the end result? in less complicated words, can nicks achieve a level of success comparable to the level of success Cruz has had from the slot, even if its through different ways? IE, using Nicks like NO uses Colston...I only ask bc the one thing that could falsely elevate Cruz's worth is the play from the slot. Hes amazing, maybe the best at it. But a big part of that is the scheme. He's an amazing wr i hate coming from a position of letting him walk bc it feels like im slighting him, im just trying to think about it from all anglesWe don't know if Nicks will ever be 100% again though.

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 12:31 PM
heres a question just for the sake of debate, but it is relevant: suppose we kept nicks and let cruz go in some alternate dimension. could nicks be a slot threat the way cruz is, not in how they accomplish the end result, but in the success of the end result? in less complicated words, can nicks achieve a level of success comparable to the level of success Cruz has had from the slot, even if its through different ways? IE, using Nicks like NO uses Colston...


I only ask bc the one thing that could falsely elevate Cruz's worth is the play from the slot. Hes amazing, maybe the best at it. But a big part of that is the scheme. He's an amazing wr i hate coming from a position of letting him walk bc it feels like im slighting him, im just trying to think about it from all angles

Cruz can work anywhere on the field and is one of the best slot receivers in the League. I don't think that's where Nicks' value is to the Giants and if he worked in the slot would be be as effective as Cruz?

As with every season, you work on the player contracts you have to and take care of next season, next season.

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 12:31 PM
HWe don't know if Nicks will ever be 100% again though.that doesnt necessarily negate the question. can a less than 100% nicks attain a level of success from the slot as Cruz? thats got to be an angle looked at? and if not Nicks, then can a Randle, or JJ attain a level of success from the slot comparable to Cruz? Doesnt have to be through the same measures/ways, but the end result has to be the same; a consistent, high level of success.

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 12:33 PM
Cruz can work anywhere on the field and is one of the best slot receivers in the League. I don't think that's where Nicks' value is to the Giants and if if worked in the slot would be be as effective as Cruz?

As with every season, you work on the player contracts you have to and take care of next season, next season.oh dont get me wrong, i agree with ur cruz analysis 1000%. thats why i question if we can attain similar levels of success, even if by different measures/ways, ie like by an aggregate of a combo of players even. the reason why, is a huge part of cruzs success in our offense is his play out of the slot. If we can attain that success through different, and more importantly, cheaper means, that has a huge implication on the cruz contract situation. see what i mean?

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 12:34 PM
and to continue/add, IF nicks can be as effective out of the slot, does he become the better choice at keeping bc of his added presence on the outside?

ShakeandBake
01-03-2013, 12:37 PM
heres a question just for the sake of debate, but it is relevant: suppose we kept nicks and let cruz go in some alternate dimension. could nicks be a slot threat the way cruz is, not in how they accomplish the end result, but in the success of the end result? in less complicated words, can nicks achieve a level of success comparable to the level of success Cruz has had from the slot, even if its through different ways? IE, using Nicks like NO uses Colston...


I only ask bc the one thing that could falsely elevate Cruz's worth is the play from the slot. Hes amazing, maybe the best at it. But a big part of that is the scheme. He's an amazing wr i hate coming from a position of letting him walk bc it feels like im slighting him, im just trying to think about it from all angles

If Nicks stays healthy he can be a top 10 if not top 5 receiver in this league, from his natural "x" position. I'd say a slot receiver is more valuable than an "x" receiver in most scenarios(just because you have to be a more versatile player to play out of the slot, more routes you must be able to run effectively). Personally I think Nicks is a better player than Cruz, but this is when he is healthy so I think the difference in value that each brings to this team is marginal

NYGisBallin
01-03-2013, 12:38 PM
oh dont get me wrong, i agree with ur cruz analysis 1000%. thats why i question if we can attain similar levels of success, even if by different measures/ways, ie like by an aggregate of a combo of players even. the reason why, is a huge part of cruzs success in our offense is his play out of the slot. If we can attain that success through different, and more importantly, cheaper means, that has a huge implication on the cruz contract situation. see what i mean?

Having Cruz back in the slot and Randle with a year of experience and Nicks (A healthy Nicks that is) on the outside could be unbelievably deadly... I think Randle has fantastic upside if he puts the work in. Could be a way better option than MM IMO. Getting back to the original topic.. We HAVE to pay cruz. 8-10 million seems fair. He's been healthy (knock on wood) and consistent. His rapport with Eli is there and will always get better with practice/games. With those 3 Recivers and resigning Hixon our Recievers are more than adequate at this point.. Get it done JR!

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 12:44 PM
oh dont get me wrong, i agree with ur cruz analysis 1000%. thats why i question if we can attain similar levels of success, even if by different measures/ways, ie like by an aggregate of a combo of players even. the reason why, is a huge part of cruzs success in our offense is his play out of the slot. If we can attain that success through different, and more importantly, cheaper means, that has a huge implication on the cruz contract situation. see what i mean?

If I were Reese THIS YEAR, I'd want to sign Cruz to a fair, long term contract. I'd also want to see Nicks' play next year not only to see his stats, but his durability before negotiating his contract. To protect against Nicks having continuing health issues in 2013, I'd also sign Hixon as a dependable understudy for whoever might not play games, solid #4 WR ( assuming Randle passes him on the depth chart) and punt/kick returner. He will come relatively cheaply IMO.

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 12:45 PM
that doesnt necessarily negate the question. can a less than 100% nicks attain a level of success from the slot as Cruz? thats got to be an angle looked at? and if not Nicks, then can a Randle, or JJ attain a level of success from the slot comparable to Cruz? Doesnt have to be through the same measures/ways, but the end result has to be the same; a consistent, high level of success.I don't think so. Because Nicks plays so physical, I don't think he is ever going to be the same. Cruz is possibly one of the best slot receivers in the game..don't know if Nicks can play that position being injured all the time. Randle? Maybe. I like Randle a lot.

Riverboat76
01-03-2013, 12:46 PM
Cruz will get paid.

Nicks will not get paid, at least by the Giants.

Randle is here to replace Nicks.

ShakeandBake
01-03-2013, 12:46 PM
and to continue/add, IF nicks can be as effective out of the slot, does he become the better choice at keeping bc of his added presence on the outside?

No I don't think so. I think Cruz is a dominant slot receiver, and Nicks is dominant on the outside. Can Nicks play the slot, and can Cruz play the outside? Yes but imo they are not as effective. The way I look at it is that you could say the same thing about many other players on the team, but if they already starters and arguably dominant at their position then you aren't going to be moving them anyway, and therefore their value does not increase.

Another example would be JPP. I think everyone can agree that he is an athletic freak and could play(possibly start in on this defense) at linebacker. Does this increase his value? No because he is already great at what he does at DE, and hopefully would never think of moving him to LB. Then you could take a look at a borderline starter like Chase Blackburn, and being proficient at another position would definitely increase his value because the potential of him being moved out of his natural position is much greater than the other guys I mentioned.

Sarcasman
01-03-2013, 12:47 PM
I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm


Would you like an official ruling?

gumby74
01-03-2013, 12:48 PM
Would you risk drafting a WR in the first round though knowing our holes?

I can turn it around though and say would you rather take that risk and then using that 8 million elsewhere? Like a stud LT? Personally, I think I would. We all know that it won't matter who we have at WR as much if Eli isn't upright.

Riverboat76
01-03-2013, 12:48 PM
And I don't get those who say Cruz is not worth it. This guy is the next generation Wes Welker, with a little more explosion. And he's coming into his prime. Of course he's gonna get paid.

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 12:49 PM
agree with u rudy, rf, nygisballing, and shakenbake.

i get the feeling that the consensus is we gotta re-sign him, even if its at market price. its tough. but i certainly see and agree with the perspective that a healthy cruz, nicks, and randle will be LETHAL, especially with a Hixon and even a JJ as understudies.

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 12:50 PM
Would you like an official ruling?

As in "replay" Hell yes

Sarcasman
01-03-2013, 12:50 PM
GREAT POINT. GREAT.

look to the senior citizens of our boards for true perspective.


Hey! I resemble that remark.

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 12:51 PM
agree with u rudy, rf, nygisballing, and shakenbake.

i get the feeling that the consensus is we gotta re-sign him, even if its at market price. its tough. but i certainly see and agree with the perspective that a healthy cruz, nicks, and randle will be LETHAL, especially with a Hixon and even a JJ as understudies.

They won't release Jernigan while he's still working on his rookie contract, but Barden has to go.

ShakeandBake
01-03-2013, 12:52 PM
I can turn it around though and say would you rather take that risk and then using that 8 million elsewhere? Like a stud LT? Personally, I think I would. We all know that it won't matter who we have at WR as much if Eli isn't upright.

Yeah you have to remember this is a guy who we picked up as a UFA, and to replace him we would need to burn a high round draft pick or pickup someone in FA, and even then its not a guarantee that we will get the same type of production.

ShakeandBake
01-03-2013, 12:52 PM
They won't release Jernigan while he's still working on his rookie contract, but Barden has to go.

Barden sucks, he is Anthony Mix II

Sarcasman
01-03-2013, 12:53 PM
YOU GUYS ARE DREAMING TOP WR commands the going rate, he probably will take less to stay here but it will still be a high figure to lock him up during his prime.


now maybe some of you will see the problem with all the restructuring and bloated contracts hitting us now.

Agreed. He is a top WR. Not elite though.

In fact, I plan to start 50 threads about it....but first I want to compare his first season with Randy Moss'

gumby74
01-03-2013, 12:53 PM
True, but i dont' think Cruz is some immense talent that couldn't be found in the first round.


He's a damn good talent who has worked in this system for three years and had back to back 1,000 yard seasons. I can't imagine replacing him with a draft pick and not losing ground.

If we go for WR first round, the problems we are having do not get addressed once again.

I agree. We may not see dividends immediately, since it cometimes takes some time for WRs to get up to speed, but it will pay off in a couple years. We have the 8-10 million elsewhere to use. Everyone is clamoring over the OLine. Why not a stud LT? If all of a sudden Eli has more time to throw, will it offset the loss of Cruz? Keep in mind that we'll have Nicks for at least one more year. So it's not like we'll have 2 green WRs running around out there.

But again, Nicks healthy is a big questionmark.

TheEnigma
01-03-2013, 12:53 PM
I can turn it around though and say would you rather take that risk and then using that 8 million elsewhere? Like a stud LT? Personally, I think I would. We all know that it won't matter who we have at WR as much if Eli isn't upright.

Assuming we received a 1st round pick for Cruz's tender, the only positive would be having an additional chest piece to trade up for Jadeveon Clowney in the 2014 Draft. He's one of those players who can potentially change the way we look at the game from what he's done in college so far. Having another dominant DE would be worth losing Cruz and having more room to sign other players.

Doesn't really matter anyway because we all know that Cruz and the FO are going to make this negotiation work. Cruz has family here, media sensationalism, great market deals, etc. Cruz and Randle are the future.

Riverboat76
01-03-2013, 12:55 PM
Cruz deserves to be paid and he's not going anywhere.

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 12:56 PM
I can turn it around though and say would you rather take that risk and then using that 8 million elsewhere? Like a stud LT? Personally, I think I would. We all know that it won't matter who we have at WR as much if Eli isn't upright.Take a risk of resigning Cru? Or take the risk of going over the cap?

gumby74
01-03-2013, 12:57 PM
True, but i dont' think Cruz is some immense talent that couldn't be found in the first round.


He's a damn good talent who has worked in this system for three years and had back to back 1,000 yard seasons. I can't imagine replacing him with a draft pick and not losing ground.

If we go for WR first round, the problems we are having do not get addressed once again.


Nicks having a healthy season doesn't mean nicks is now healthy. Everyone keeps wanting to evalute nicks as if he's 100%. he's not. his style of play is wearing him down.

and we may be in a situation where we can get cruz at a discount based on negotiating with him now. put him off for a year and subject him to potentially getting injured and reducing his market value significantly, and the trade off is if we choose to go with cruz we may have to pay alot more for him.

i'd definitely prefer a healthy nicks to cruz. few wouldn't. but that's not where we find ourselves right now.

It really is a crap shoot. But at this point, I would put a 1st round tender. Worse comes to worse, we don't match it and we get a 1st round pick (potentially high one) and 8-10 million saved and see what our QB is made of. And I'm pretty confident Eli can do a decent job of it.

Ruttiger711
01-03-2013, 12:57 PM
Cruz deserves to be paid and he's not going anywhere.

Paid WHAT though?

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 12:57 PM
Agreed. He is a top WR. Not elite though.

In fact, I plan to start 50 threads about it....but first I want to compare his first season with Randy Moss'

Oy, I'm begging you........

gumby74
01-03-2013, 12:58 PM
Take a risk of resigning Cru? Or take the risk of going over the cap?

Take the risk of losing Cruz. I meant, take the risk of losing cruz and if you do lose him - using that 8-10 million saved elsewhere.

Sarcasman
01-03-2013, 12:59 PM
As in "replay" Hell yes


The review confirms the initial ruling on the board: it was sarcasm.

gumby74
01-03-2013, 12:59 PM
Assuming we received a 1st round pick for Cruz's tender, the only positive would be having an additional chest piece to trade up for Jadeveon Clowney in the 2014 Draft. He's one of those players who can potentially change the way we look at the game from what he's done in college so far. Having another dominant DE would be worth losing Cruz and having more room to sign other players.

Doesn't really matter anyway because we all know that Cruz and the FO are going to make this negotiation work. Cruz has family here, media sensationalism, great market deals, etc. Cruz and Randle are the future.

Yeah, if Randle continues his rise, I think Nicks is a goner.

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 01:00 PM
It really is a crap shoot. But at this point, I would put a 1st round tender. Worse comes to worse, we don't match it and we get a 1st round pick (potentially high one) and 8-10 million saved and see what our QB is made of. And I'm pretty confident Eli can do a decent job of it.

You're not going to get a 1st round pick to match Cruz's productivity or be in synch with Eli. WR is not a problem position for this team and if we waste a # 1 pick on one we once again ignore problems we definitely have on both lines.

Sarcasman
01-03-2013, 01:01 PM
Oy, I'm begging you........


LOL

Riverboat76
01-03-2013, 01:01 PM
I really feel people on this board can't look past the fact that he was an UFA. If he had been a first round pick and put up the same numbers that he has, EVERYBODY would be like "PAY THE MAN!". But because the Giants gave him a shot, he owes the Giants a steep hometown discount. He's already given the Giants a steep discount by performing under his current deal. He deserves to get paid and the Giants will pay him.

Morehead State
01-03-2013, 01:02 PM
$8 to $10MM seems way too high. WAY!!! to high.
He's a very good player but I see a tad less than that.
Maybe 4 years, 25MM, or something like that.

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 01:03 PM
I really feel people on this board can't look past the fact that he was an UFA. If he had been a first round pick and put up the same numbers that he has, EVERYBODY would be like "PAY THE MAN!". But because the Giants gave him a shot, he owes the Giants a steep hometown discount. He's already given the Giants a steep discount by performing under his current deal. He deserves to get paid and the Giants will pay him.Sure...8-10 million is still a lot, and we have other pieces to sign as well.

Riverboat76
01-03-2013, 01:04 PM
$8 to $10MM seems way too high. WAY!!! to high.
He's a very good player but I see a tad less than that.
Maybe 4 years, 25MM, or something like that.

It's the going rate for recievers. If V. Jackson or D. Jackson or P. Garcon can all make 8-11 million, then Cruz can ask for the same. He's better than all those guys.

TheEnigma
01-03-2013, 01:04 PM
Yeah, if Randle continues his rise, I think Nicks is a goner.

My prediction: Someone takes a chance on Nicks with a huge contract that the Giants simply won't match and he won't live up to it unfortunately because of his injuries. Panthers or Dolphins maybe.

GoDeep80
01-03-2013, 01:04 PM
If that's what Cruz is asking for than WR just became a need.

CDN_G-FAN
01-03-2013, 01:05 PM
Take the risk of losing Cruz. I meant, take the risk of losing cruz and if you do lose him - using that 8-10 million saved elsewhere.

that's if you look at these players as chess pieces, and this organization does not.

cruz will be signed, he'll probably provide a bit of a hometown discount, but it'll be close to those figures above.

the organization sees his contribution as more than onfield, they see his work ethic as leading by example in the locker room (called out Randle during the year saying if he puts in the time and work, he'll see more playing time) , they see his public community service as a benefit to the organization's image and contribution to the NJ/NY area, and they see his professional handling of the contract situation as a great example to make for other players: if you act like Cruz, you've got a much better chance of getting the contract you want vs. going the Osi route.

Cruz will get his number, i think the organization sees his value as alot more than a replacable slot receiver.

gumby74
01-03-2013, 01:05 PM
It really is a crap shoot. But at this point, I would put a 1st round tender. Worse comes to worse, we don't match it and we get a 1st round pick (potentially high one) and 8-10 million saved and see what our QB is made of. And I'm pretty confident Eli can do a decent job of it.


You're not going to get a 1st round pick to match Cruz's productivity or be in synch with Eli. WR is not a problem position for this team and if we waste a # 1 pick on one we once again ignore problems we definitely have on both lines.

I guess we'll agree to disagree. We heard similar arguements with Steve Smith. That he and Eli were on the same page. That can be taught. And I'm fairly certain that at 1st round pick can matches Cruz production and more. But he could very well be a bust also. So who knows. It's one big calculated risk and if Reese's draft history is any indicator, he'll probably find someone decent (not necessarily a start) in the first round, and with the 8-10 million "freed", we go get us another piece of the puzzle - LT, DE, what have you. I think the sum of those 2 things > Cruz.

Edit: Another reason why I'm more willing to let Cruz go is because we have Eli. We have the luxury of having a QB that can work with less talented receivers than say Arizona or Jacksonville.

Coulda shoulda woulda. No one knows for sure.

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 01:05 PM
I really feel people on this board can't look past the fact that he was an UFA. If he had been a first round pick and put up the same numbers that he has, EVERYBODY would be like "PAY THE MAN!". But because the Giants gave him a shot, he owes the Giants a steep hometown discount. He's already given the Giants a steep discount by performing under his current deal. He deserves to get paid and the Giants will pay him.

Everyone is saying pay the man, the problem is how much. BTW Cruz hasn't demanded that amount, that was an uneducated guess by the writer of the article based on what some other players recently signed for.

Riverboat76
01-03-2013, 01:05 PM
Sure...8-10 million is still a lot, and we have other pieces to sign as well.

That's why we're not going to resign Nicks. In two years it's going to be Randle and Cruz at the 1 and 2.

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 01:06 PM
That's why we're not going to resign Nicks. In two years it's going to be Randle and Cruz at the 1 and 2.How do you know we are not going to resign Nicks?

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 01:06 PM
I guess we'll agree to disagree. We heard similar arguements with Steve Smith. That he and Eli were on the same page. That can be taught. And I'm fairly certain that at 1st round pick can matches Cruz production and more. But he could very well be a bust also. So who knows. It's one big calculated risk and if Reese's draft history is any indicator, he'll probably find someone decent (not necessarily a start) in the first round, and with the 8-10 million "freed", we go get us another piece of the puzzle - LT, DE, what have you. I think the sum of those 2 things > Cruz.

Coulda shoulda woulda. No one knows for sure.

You have a guy you know fits in and produces. It's hard to imagine just dumping him and drafting his replacement.

Riverboat76
01-03-2013, 01:07 PM
Everyone is saying pay the man, the problem is how much. BTW Cruz hasn't demanded that amount, that was an uneducated guess by the writer of the article based on what some other players recently signed for.

Considering what less talented recievers have recieved in the last year, I would say 8-10 is a pretty educated guess. I would be THRILLED if the Giants signed him to less than that, but I'm not counting on that.

TheEnigma
01-03-2013, 01:09 PM
How do you know we are not going to resign Nicks?

No one here actually knows but Cruz being resigned because of his superior "health" and Randle looking promising on the outside with some more development means Nicks won't be valued here as much compared to other teams.

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 01:09 PM
I agree. We may not see dividends immediately, since it cometimes takes some time for WRs to get up to speed, but it will pay off in a couple years. We have the 8-10 million elsewhere to use. Everyone is clamoring over the OLine. Why not a stud LT? If all of a sudden Eli has more time to throw, will it offset the loss of Cruz? Keep in mind that we'll have Nicks for at least one more year. So it's not like we'll have 2 green WRs running around out there.

But again, Nicks healthy is a big questionmark.another great question. can the offense be as effective, and even more effective, if the apparent 8-10 mil used on Cruz, would be used elsewhere?

And seeing as we KNOW if the OL struggles, the entire offense struggles, its a tough question to answer.

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 01:10 PM
If that's what Cruz is asking for than WR just became a need.

That's not what Cruz is asking for, it's an uneducated guess from the writer of the article.

Riverboat76
01-03-2013, 01:10 PM
How do you know we are not going to resign Nicks?

Well, Reese hasn't consulted me on this yet, so I don't know for sure. But my guess is the Giants are not going to pay big for 2 recievers. I can't see them putting $18 million - $20 million/ year for two guys. I think Randle is a Nicks clone. He doesn't have the track record yet of Nicks, but we saw glimpses of it this year.

ShakeandBake
01-03-2013, 01:12 PM
I guess we'll agree to disagree. We heard similar arguements with Steve Smith. That he and Eli were on the same page. That can be taught. And I'm fairly certain that at 1st round pick can matches Cruz production and more. But he could very well be a bust also. So who knows. It's one big calculated risk and if Reese's draft history is any indicator, he'll probably find someone decent (not necessarily a start) in the first round, and with the 8-10 million "freed", we go get us another piece of the puzzle - LT, DE, what have you. I think the sum of those 2 things > Cruz.

Edit: Another reason why I'm more willing to let Cruz go is because we have Eli. We have the luxury of having a QB that can work with less talented receivers than say Arizona or Jacksonville.

Coulda shoulda woulda. No one knows for sure.

Steve Smith was coming off a knee injury and while he was arguably a better route runner than Cruz was, Cruz definitely has more raw talent and ability than Smith ever had.

gumby74
01-03-2013, 01:12 PM
that's if you look at these players as chess pieces, and this organization does not.

cruz will be signed, he'll probably provide a bit of a hometown discount, but it'll be close to those figures above.

the organization sees his contribution as more than onfield, they see his work ethic as leading by example in the locker room (called out Randle during the year saying if he puts in the time and work, he'll see more playing time) , they see his public community service as a benefit to the organization's image and contribution to the NJ/NY area, and they see his professional handling of the contract situation as a great example to make for other players: if you act like Cruz, you've got a much better chance of getting the contract you want vs. going the Osi route.

Cruz will get his number, i think the organization sees his value as alot more than a replacable slot receiver.

I also see them re-signing him. If not this year, then next. But self-admittedly it's a fault of my own and as a fan, I look at things very - what's the word, i don't know, i see everything as investments I guess.

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 01:13 PM
I guess we'll agree to disagree. We heard similar arguements with Steve Smith. That he and Eli were on the same page. That can be taught. And I'm fairly certain that at 1st round pick can matches Cruz production and more. But he could very well be a bust also. So who knows. It's one big calculated risk and if Reese's draft history is any indicator, he'll probably find someone decent (not necessarily a start) in the first round, and with the 8-10 million "freed", we go get us another piece of the puzzle - LT, DE, what have you. I think the sum of those 2 things > Cruz.

Edit: Another reason why I'm more willing to let Cruz go is because we have Eli. We have the luxury of having a QB that can work with less talented receivers than say Arizona or Jacksonville.

Coulda shoulda woulda. No one knows for sure.this is such a fair argument that it could very well end up being JR's reasoning. I agree. We all have seen one wr replace the other. Plex, to hixon for a bit, to smith, to nicks, to nicks n cruz, to cruz bc nicks was hurt...we won 2 games using barden and randle as the #1's...

is the risk of not being able to reproduce the results of cruz worth overpaying our set price on him? remember, thats the key thing here. not HOW the results are attained, but IF the SAME or BETTER results are attained. We dont need another guy/group of guys to do it exactly as cruz necessarily, they just have to be able to get the same end results.

TheAnalyst
01-03-2013, 01:13 PM
He has been our best WR the past 2 years. If we lock up Cruz, say goodbye to Nicks and his injury prone body. Great receiver, but can't stay healthy. I think this is why we got Randle.

jakegibbs
01-03-2013, 01:15 PM
As long is there's a stipulation in his 10 mil contract that every dropped pass cost him 1 mil I think the Giants would get off cheap or at least only 1 mil a year. Cruz is good for at least 10 drops a season based on his last 16 games anyway. Let's see 10 mil minus 10 mil for dropps = playing for nothing.

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 01:16 PM
Well, Reese hasn't consulted me on this yet, so I don't know for sure. But my guess is the Giants are not going to pay big for 2 recievers. I can't see them putting $18 million - $20 million/ year for two guys. I think Randle is a Nicks clone. He doesn't have the track record yet of Nicks, but we saw glimpses of it this year.We don't necessarily have to pay that much for 2 WR's...I'm saying if Cruz demands a little less knowing our current situation then there's a possibility we can sign Nicks as well.

Riverboat76
01-03-2013, 01:16 PM
The Giants are never going to pay premium for somebody else's free agents. It's really never been their way. So all this talk about signing some stud O-Lineman or LB is just craziness. They will pay for their own, however. So over the years, guys like Osi, Tuck, Strahan, Eli have all been taken care of. They will take care of Cruz, just like next year they will take care of JPP.

Sarcasman
01-03-2013, 01:16 PM
Considering what less talented recievers have recieved in the last year, I would say 8-10 is a pretty educated guess. I would be THRILLED if the Giants signed him to less than that, but I'm not counting on that.


$8 - $10MM is high for him based on results, but a $5-$6 base with performance incentives, I could see that getting into the $8MM neighborhood. This year didn't help his case much.

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 01:16 PM
He has been our best WR the past 2 years. If we lock up Cruz, say goodbye to Nicks and his injury prone body. Great receiver, but can't stay healthy. I think this is why we got Randle.I thought we got Randle to replace MM

Morehead State
01-03-2013, 01:17 PM
That's not what Cruz is asking for, it's an uneducated guess from the writer of the article.
Hey I love Victor Cruz, but we can't pay him 8 to 10 MM/year. Not if we want to address other needs.

And for those who think Randle is a replacement for Nicks...I disagree. He was drafted as a replacement for Manningham. Nicks is the best WR on the team and is a top 5 WR in the league as far as I'm concerned. He's probably the best WR the Giants have ever had. Certainly since I've been a fan.

His problem is health. That damned broken foot caused all kinds of related problems this season. I can see us seeing if he can get healthy this coming season before we make a huge financial commitment to him.

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 01:17 PM
another valid point i see being made is the subject of randle. i agree, he did strike me as a nicks type player, and also as a MM type player too. watch the replay of his 1rst td vs philly, the one on the PA, tell me that u can tell the difference between him and MM, i cant.

Randles play next year could be central to Nicks and maybe Cruz. The whole tender thing could be what JR does, and i agree with the posters its a crap shoot bc i can see a team forfeiting even a top 10 draft pick for cruz.

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 01:18 PM
$8 - $10MM is high for him based on results, but a $5-$6 base with performance incentives, I could see that getting into the $8MM neighborhood. This year didn't help his case much.really? i like the numbers, but disagree with the last statement.

gumby74
01-03-2013, 01:18 PM
Steve Smith was coming off a knee injury and while he was arguably a better route runner than Cruz was, Cruz definitely has more raw talent and ability than Smith ever had.

Yah. I got killed for saying that Steve Smith wasn't worth 7 million (I think the report was that he had declined a similar offer with the Giants the year before) even when healthy. For 7 million I would have rather had Greg Jennings or Vincent Jackson. I believe 7 million was the going rate for those kind of WRs back then. But yes. Cruz is definitely worth a lot more. He actually stretches the defense.

Morehead State
01-03-2013, 01:19 PM
$8 - $10MM is high for him based on results, but a $5-$6 base with performance incentives, I could see that getting into the $8MM neighborhood. This year didn't help his case much.
On this..I completely disagree. He validated his 2011 season with another outstanding season this year.

Riverboat76
01-03-2013, 01:19 PM
We don't necessarily have to pay that much for 2 WR's...I'm saying if Cruz demands a little less knowing our current situation then there's a possibility we can sign Nicks as well.

Sure, anything is possible. It's all going to be in what Nicks demands. But Nicks is a guy with an injury history. He had an awful year this year (he shouldn't have been playing IMO). If he thinks he will be paid like a top-tier receiver come next off-season, I think he's got another thing coming.

Sarcasman
01-03-2013, 01:21 PM
really? i like the numbers, but disagree with the last statement.


That's OK, we can disagree on details. He had a good year certainly not a great one. Way too inconsistent. Still if we get him for the numbers I posted, I'd lock him up.

TheEnigma
01-03-2013, 01:21 PM
We don't necessarily have to pay that much for 2 WR's...I'm saying if Cruz demands a little less knowing our current situation then there's a possibility we can sign Nicks as well.

You gotta look at the other 31 teams in the league and see their WR situation. Heck, dudes like Kevin Boss received a decent pay day so you know someone like the Dolphins or Panthers will throw big bucks at him to give their young QB a #1.

Sarcasman
01-03-2013, 01:22 PM
On this..I completely disagree. He validated his 2011 season with another outstanding season this year.

I think he slipped this year from last.

Redeyejedi
01-03-2013, 01:22 PM
By Victor no way I pay a slot receiver 10 million

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 01:22 PM
Sure, anything is possible. It's all going to be in what Nicks demands. But Nicks is a guy with an injury history. He had an awful year this year (he shouldn't have been playing IMO). If he thinks he will be paid like a top-tier receiver come next off-season, I think he's got another thing coming. His injury history doesn't help him, but he is still an elite receiver. Cruz is one of the best receivers in the game, but 8-10 is so much money. Both of them would need to demand less IMO if they want to stay with the team.

ShakeandBake
01-03-2013, 01:23 PM
Yah. I got killed for saying that Steve Smith wasn't worth 7 million (I think the report was that he had declined a similar offer with the Giants the year before) even when healthy. For 7 million I would have rather had Greg Jennings or Vincent Jackson. I believe 7 million was the going rate for those kind of WRs back then. But yes. Cruz is definitely worth a lot more. He actually stretches the defense.

Exactly. I was also one of the ones who didn't see bringing Steve Smith back as being paramount, but the situation we are in now with Cruz is completely different. Plus if we don't bring him back who is going to start in the slot? JJ?

Riverboat76
01-03-2013, 01:23 PM
Hey I love Victor Cruz, but we can't pay him 8 to 10 MM/year. Not if we want to address other needs.

And for those who think Randle is a replacement for Nicks...I disagree. He was drafted as a replacement for Manningham. Nicks is the best WR on the team and is a top 5 WR in the league as far as I'm concerned. He's probably the best WR the Giants have ever had. Certainly since I've been a fan.

His problem is health. That damned broken foot caused all kinds of related problems this season. I can see us seeing if he can get healthy this coming season before we make a huge financial commitment to him.

I don't think you draft a guy in the second round to be a 3rd or 4th reciever for a prolonged period of time. I may be giving Reese too much credit here, but I think he foresaw being able to only keep one (Cruz or Nicks) and Randle is the insurance policy. The Giants can always find a 3rd or 4th reciever in FA or later in the draft. Heck, Hixon is already on the team.

Morehead State
01-03-2013, 01:24 PM
I think he slipped this year from last.
Well he wasn't going for 1500 yards. To think that was going to happen would be silly.
What this season proved is that he's not a one year wonder. He's a solid, high quality player who can perform even if he has to be the #1 guy, with Nicks out so much.
No sir....this season enhanced his value. It did nothing to hurt it.

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 01:25 PM
You gotta look at the other 31 teams in the league and see their WR situation. Heck, dudes like Kevin Boss received a decent pay day so you know someone like the Dolphins or Panthers will throw big bucks at him to give their young QB a #1.Of course they would. I'm just saying if they want to stay with the Giants..somethings gotta give..

Morehead State
01-03-2013, 01:25 PM
I don't think you draft a guy in the second round to be a 3rd or 4th reciever for a prolonged period of time. I may be giving Reese too much credit here, but I think he foresaw being able to only keep one (Cruz or Nicks) and Randle is the insurance policy. The Giants can always find a 3rd or 4th reciever in FA or later in the draft. Heck, Hixon is already on the team.
Well put it this way, if we had signed MM there is no way we would have drafted Randle.

You draft a guy to develop and hope he helps your team. But the need for WR became more significant when MM went to SF.

Riverboat76
01-03-2013, 01:27 PM
His injury history doesn't help him, but he is still an elite receiver. Cruz is one of the best receivers in the game, but 8-10 is so much money. Both of them would need to demand less IMO if they want to stay with the team.

Ok, lets say Nicks has a good year next year. Say, 1200 yards and 9 TDs, which would be his best year statistically. What do you do? Do you pay him premium money (10 Million/year +)because he put up a good year in his contract year? Because that's what kind of money he will be asking for. Considering his history, I don't know. It doesnt seem like a Giant thing to do.

TheEnigma
01-03-2013, 01:28 PM
Of course they would. I'm just saying if they want to stay with the Giants..somethings gotta give..

We will only offer so much because of our depth (Randle) and the fact we can't tie too much into one position outside of QB. Considering what Nicks did in the 2011 playoffs and if he rebounds in 2013 with a 1k yard plus season, his agent is going to expect huge money that the Giants won't be able to match. I'm just arguing that the odds are we will see Nicks in a different uniform after 2013 but I hope I'm wrong.

Marvelousmik
01-03-2013, 01:29 PM
I didn't read the article but I thought Roanoke said 8 million was an educated guess by the NY Post. The Post isn't the most accurate paper and is known to sensationalize stories.

I definitely wouldn't say Cruz excels mainly due to the scheme. He's the best route runner on the team and can shake a defender to get open unlike many other in the league. I rather have the skill set than a Mike Wallace/Desean Jackson type receiver.

+1 ..The things people say sometimes.... if victor cruz doesnt have speed then i dont know what speed is..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek5Zyzn3Avw

Riverboat76
01-03-2013, 01:29 PM
By Victor no way I pay a slot receiver 10 million

He's not a slot reciever. He's a reciever who happens to play in the slot. Ask the Jets or the Redskins if he is explosive enough.

Morehead State
01-03-2013, 01:30 PM
Ok, lets say Nicks has a good year next year. Say, 1200 yards and 9 TDs, which would be his best year statistically. What do you do? Do you pay him premium money (10 Million/year +)because he put up a good year in his contract year? Because that's what kind of money he will be asking for. Considering his history, I don't know. It doesnt seem like a Giant thing to do.
His history of injuries (even if he stays healthy next year) will keep his value down. I see him getting far less than that.

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 01:30 PM
Well he wasn't going for 1500 yards. To think that was going to happen would be silly.
What this season proved is that he's not a one year wonder. He's a solid, high quality player who can perform even if he has to be the #1 guy, with Nicks out so much.
No sir....this season enhanced his value. It did nothing to hurt it.i agree. if anything, i think hes proven beyond a doubt, that the way he achieves his success is something he can sustain for a long time...he wont suddenly lose the ability at the styles he runs his routes, its not a speed type trait. thats why i said he reminds me of rice. rice was able to get open soley by how he ran his routes, which is so rare. cruz gets WIDE OPEN solely on how he runs his route physically...


edit- and thats from an individual skill set perspective. im not discussing how scheme is relevant in the above post. scheme and other factors play a big part too.

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 01:31 PM
Ok, lets say Nicks has a good year next year. Say, 1200 yards and 9 TDs, which would be his best year statistically. What do you do? Do you pay him premium money (10 Million/year +)because he put up a good year in his contract year? Because that's what kind of money he will be asking for. Considering his history, I don't know. It doesnt seem like a Giant thing to do.Interesting. He probably would be gone if he's demanding that much money. If that is the case, Randle should step in. The thing is, Randle was brought in to replace Manningham, not Nicks.

Sarcasman
01-03-2013, 01:31 PM
Well he wasn't going for 1500 yards. To think that was going to happen would be silly.
What this season proved is that he's not a one year wonder. He's a solid, high quality player who can perform even if he has to be the #1 guy, with Nicks out so much.
No sir....this season enhanced his value. It did nothing to hurt it.


I agree this season proved that he's not a one year wonder. Perhaps I was being too generous by assuming at the outset that he wasn't one and that he would remain at the levels of last year. If your point is that this year combined with last establishes and reinforces his range, that's fair. But he did go from top 10 (top 5/6 in some) to top 15/20 in some meaningful categories.

Riverboat76
01-03-2013, 01:31 PM
+1 ..The things people say sometimes.... if victor cruz doesnt have speed then i dont know what speed is..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek5Zyzn3Avw

Yup. The guy is crazy good AND crazy durable. Remember some of the shots he took this season?

A deal will get done. The Giants need him and he wants to stay.

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 01:33 PM
We will only offer so much because of our depth (Randle) and the fact we can't tie too much into one position outside of QB. Considering what Nicks did in the 2011 playoffs and if he rebounds in 2013 with a 1k yard plus season, his agent is going to expect huge money that the Giants won't be able to match. I'm just arguing that the odds are we will see Nicks in a different uniform after 2013 but I hope I'm wrong.That's the whole problem. He's worth a lot but at the same time he isn't lol.

Riverboat76
01-03-2013, 01:34 PM
Interesting. He probably would be gone if he's demanding that much money. If that is the case, Randle should step in. The thing is, Randle was brought in to replace Manningham, not Nicks.

Again, I don't think you spend a 2nd rounder on a guy to play 3rd or 4th reciever like MM. The Giants tend to get their skill position players later in the draft (Jacobs, Bradshaw) or not in the draft at all (Cruz). They grabbed Nicks in the first to be a #1. They grabbed Randle in the 2nd to eventually be a #1.

Morehead State
01-03-2013, 01:34 PM
i agree. if anything, i think hes proven beyond a doubt, that the way he achieves his success is something he can sustain for a long time...he wont suddenly lose the ability at the styles he runs his routes, its not a speed type trait. thats why i said he reminds me of rice. rice was able to get open soley by how he ran his routes, which is so rare. cruz gets WIDE OPEN solely on how he runs his route physically...


edit- and thats from an individual skill set perspective. im not discussing how scheme is relevant in the above post. scheme and other factors play a big part too.

He reminds me of Steve Smith (the good one)

TheEnigma
01-03-2013, 01:34 PM
Interesting. He probably would be gone if he's demanding that much money. If that is the case, Randle should step in. The thing is, Randle was brought in to replace Manningham, not Nicks.

Depends on how you look at it. More than half the league has an elite/very good receiver. About 7-10 teams have two good receivers. What we had in 2011 with Nicks, Cruz, and MM was a HUUUUUUGGGGEEE luxury. It's just not something you can expect to sustain for a long period of time. Same scenario when we had Strahan, Osi, and Tuck. In those regards, we've been spoiled and at some point, we'll have to look to replace that productivity elsewhere.

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 01:34 PM
I agree this season proved that he's not a one year wonder. Perhaps I was being too generous by assuming at the outset that he wasn't one and that he would remain at the levels of last year. If your point is that this year combined with last establishes and reinforces his range, that's fair. But he did go from top 10 (top 5/6 in some) to top 15/20 in some meaningful categories.I know what you mean. Cruz IS inconsistent. Great WR, elite IMO but inconsistent.

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 01:34 PM
Interesting. He probably would be gone if he's demanding that much money. If that is the case, Randle should step in. The thing is, Randle was brought in to replace Manningham, not Nicks.but that doesnt mean we wouldnt want him to be able to replace Nicks. i agree, i think that was part of the reasoning we had him rated as high as we did. remember, they were saying he was a serious option IN THE FIRST round...we were so lucky to get him in the 2nd. but remember all the Ross, JR comparisons made about randle to nicks? he was brought here to replace MM schematically, bc we have Nicks already. if he can give us what nicks can, of course thatll be huge imo in keeping nicks.

Marvelousmik
01-03-2013, 01:35 PM
Having 4 to 5 accounts is funnier than what you said.

fixed

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 01:35 PM
Again, I don't think you spend a 2nd rounder on a guy to play 3rd or 4th reciever like MM. The Giants tend to get their skill position players later in the draft (Jacobs, Bradshaw) or not in the draft at all (Cruz). They grabbed Nicks in the first to be a #1. They grabbed Randle in the 2nd to eventually be a #1.But is he ready to be number 1 is the question.

Riverboat76
01-03-2013, 01:36 PM
People, you don't have money to spend on 4 good recievers. The Giants are not going to spend big on Cruz and Nicks and eventually Randle. Not enough room. Somebody will go. Probably the guy who is hurt alot (if he asks for too much money, that is).

TheEnigma
01-03-2013, 01:36 PM
That's the whole problem. He's worth a lot but at the same time he isn't lol.

Exactly and his agent will overvalue him while pointing to that 2011 playoff run and comparing him to Fitz. We're not going to match that if Cruz gets a longterm deal and Randle develops.

Sarcasman
01-03-2013, 01:36 PM
I know what you mean. Cruz IS inconsistent. Great WR, elite IMO but inconsistent.


Don't steal my thunder! I'm prepping the "is he elite?" thread now.....I'm shooting for 100 pages

Riverboat76
01-03-2013, 01:37 PM
But is he ready to be number 1 is the question.

Who knows? But I assume they drafted this guy in the 2nd because Reese really liked him. Lets remember: Nicks wasn't Nicks until he became Nicks. Does that make sense?

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 01:39 PM
but that doesnt mean we wouldnt want him to be able to replace Nicks. i agree, i think that was part of the reasoning we had him rated as high as we did. remember, they were saying he was a serious option IN THE FIRST round...we were so lucky to get him in the 2nd. but remember all the Ross, JR comparisons made about randle to nicks? he was brought here to replace MM schematically, bc we have Nicks already. if he can give us what nicks can, of course thatll be huge imo in keeping nicks.That is a very huge if lol.

ShakeandBake
01-03-2013, 01:39 PM
Don't steal my thunder! I'm prepping the "is he elite?" thread now.....I'm shooting for 100 pages

Say he's not elite and then blame Eli

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 01:40 PM
Exactly and his agent will overvalue him while pointing to that 2011 playoff run and comparing him to Fitz. We're not going to match that if Cruz gets a longterm deal and Randle develops.Very true

Marvelousmik
01-03-2013, 01:40 PM
I say get rid of nicks, keep cruz, groom randel

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 01:41 PM
That is a very huge if lol.more like a wish ha...but yeah i see where u were coming from better, more in terms of what we were realistically expecting of randle.we were realistically expecting a replacement of MM *with the hope he could reach nicks level i think would be a fair amendment.

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 01:42 PM
Who knows? But I assume they drafted this guy in the 2nd because Reese really liked him. Lets remember: Nicks wasn't Nicks until he became Nicks. Does that make sense?Yeah but you are basically saying if he can do what Nicks can do then we're good to go. If he CAN then there's not a problem.

ny06
01-03-2013, 01:42 PM
I say get rid of nicks, keep cruz, groom randel
I rather get rid of dead weight on the team ( insert players name) and try and keep all three.

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 01:43 PM
Don't steal my thunder! I'm prepping the "is he elite?" thread now.....I'm shooting for 100 pagesCan't spell elite without 100 pages of nonsense!

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 01:44 PM
i can say that we are no more certain of what JR will do lol. this thread has had a ton of good points and valid perspectives, and i dunno if we're any closer to a certainty of what's gonna happen. such a tough situation it really is. whatever happens, theres gonna be tons of people who are angry/ecstatic...

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 01:44 PM
I rather get rid of dead weight on the team ( insert players name) and try and keep all three.Surprised that nobody brought this up yet.

Riverboat76
01-03-2013, 01:44 PM
Yeah but you are basically saying if he can do what Nicks can do then we're good to go. If he CAN then there's not a problem.

Im convinced he can already to more than what Nicks did last year. Not saying much, I know. Unfortunately we can't keep everybody we want.

TheEnigma
01-03-2013, 01:44 PM
That is a very huge if lol.

Again, having Nicks and Cruz level receivers as your #1 and #2 is a luxury. Most teams don't have that sort of talent and instead "move" that productivity elsewhere. Randle doesn't have to be Nicks good because we can rely on the TE more and perhaps Wilson will reach his top potential so there isn't a huge need for an elite WR duo like we had in 2011.

Marvelousmik
01-03-2013, 01:46 PM
This x100. I think this approach is the smartest way. If I had to choose between a Healthy Nicks or a Healthy Cruz for 10 million, it would be Nicks every day. I agree with Ranier that Cruz lacks physicality. If you look at the top end WRs, they all have that physicality about them. To determine a WR's worth, the question you have to ask I think is, how well would he do on a bad team? I have no doubts that Nicks would be able to battle other defenders for poorly thrown balls in lots of traffic. Cruz? I don't think so.


i think nicks is capable of being more productive on this team than cruz. However nicks is more replaceable. In other words, we can find another person to do a good job filling the 1 role (randel), but replacing cruz would be harder. Many wont agree with me on this but i really do believe nicks is a little overrated too. The guy is good but the next number 1 will step up. watch

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 01:46 PM
Again, having Nicks and Cruz level receivers as your #1 and #2 is a luxury. Most teams don't have that sort of talent and instead "move" that productivity elsewhere. Randle doesn't have to be Nicks good because we can rely on the TE more and perhaps Wilson will reach his top potential so there isn't a huge need for an elite WR duo like we had in 2011.even more valid if money can be allocated to making the OL kick ***

TheEnigma
01-03-2013, 01:47 PM
I say get rid of nicks, keep cruz, groom randel

I say we tender Cruz, get a 1st from another team, stockpile picks, and make a push for Clowney in 2014. At that point, we can laugh at the opposing QB as he gets clobbered by JPP and the Clown repeatedly.


...That's why I'm not a GM.

Rudyy
01-03-2013, 01:47 PM
Again, having Nicks and Cruz level receivers as your #1 and #2 is a luxury. Most teams don't have that sort of talent and instead "move" that productivity elsewhere. Randle doesn't have to be Nicks good because we can rely on the TE more and perhaps Wilson will reach his top potential so there isn't a huge need for an elite WR duo like we had in 2011. Agreed

gmen0820
01-03-2013, 01:48 PM
I'd tender Cruz for this year. That's too much right now.

Marvelousmik
01-03-2013, 01:49 PM
Again, having Nicks and Cruz level receivers as your #1 and #2 is a luxury. Most teams don't have that sort of talent and instead "move" that productivity elsewhere. Randle doesn't have to be Nicks good because we can rely on the TE more and perhaps Wilson will reach his top potential so there isn't a huge need for an elite WR duo like we had in 2011.

+1 insert randel as the number 1 and polish up a solid O line and the offense will be fine.

Marvelousmik
01-03-2013, 01:50 PM
I say we tender Cruz, get a 1st from another team, stockpile picks, and make a push for Clowney in 2014. At that point, we can laugh at the opposing QB as he gets clobbered by JPP and the Clown repeatedly.


...That's why I'm not a GM.

i dont watch college so im going to look up this clowney guy. i take it hes really good?

njg85m
01-03-2013, 01:50 PM
the Giants know they cannot operate their offense without his skills at receiver.

This is the craziest statement of this article.

Riverboat76
01-03-2013, 02:03 PM
This whole Cruz debate is funny.

Just wait till next year when people's heads explode because JPP wants $15 million/year.

gmen0820
01-03-2013, 02:06 PM
This whole Cruz debate is funny.Just wait till next year when people's heads explode because JPP wants $15 million/year.I wish he'd come that cheap.

Riverboat76
01-03-2013, 02:09 PM
I wish he'd come that cheap.

If he produces like he did this year he'll come cheaper.

gmen0820
01-03-2013, 02:13 PM
If he produces like he did this year he'll come cheaper.Yeah, maybe in 10 million range, but then you wonder if someone who's only had one true dominating year is worth 10 mil a year. You want someone paid like that to be the cornerstone of their respective side of the ball, not a component that shoulders more responsibility.

Ruttiger711
01-03-2013, 02:15 PM
I say get rid of nicks, keep cruz, groom randel

Nicks had an off year completely due to injuries... and missed 6 games in 3 years prior.... He is such a quality receiver I am AMAZED how undervalued he is here.

We NEED Hakeem Nicks period.

Riverboat76
01-03-2013, 02:18 PM
Yeah, maybe in 10 million range, but then you wonder if someone who's only had one true dominating year is worth 10 mil a year. You want someone paid like that to be the cornerstone of their respective side of the ball, not a component that shoulders more responsibility.

This is another conversation for another time, but last year I thought JPP was the most disruptive defensive player in the league. He was the rare defensive player that could single-handedly win games for you like he did in the first Cowboy game last year. I would have no problem paying that guy whatever he wants. This year...dissapointing to say the least. I was expecting him to do what JJ Watt and Aldon Smith did. Next year will obviously determine a lot.

Morehead State
01-03-2013, 02:23 PM
Nicks had an off year completely due to injuries... and missed 6 games in 3 years prior.... He is such a quality receiver I am AMAZED how undervalued he is here.

We NEED Hakeem Nicks period.
I completely agree with this.

gmen0820
01-03-2013, 02:30 PM
I completely agree with this.I agree. If you want to build a dominate WR unit, it's gotta be from the split-end to in, not from the slot to out. Dominating X receivers open the whole offense up. Dominating slot receivers convert first downs, and maintain drives. Cruz actually can make big plays too, which is also very valuable asset.

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 02:45 PM
I'd tender Cruz for this year. That's too much right now.

The problem with a tender is you can lose the player:

Excerpt: "Restricted free agents -- three-year players with expiring contracts -- can receive offers from other teams, but the incumbent team has a right to match. Should it not match, it is entitled to draft-choice compensation corresponding to the level of tender placed on the player.

Personnel experts usually identify the time between the third and fifth year of a player's career as the "sweet spot" in the player's performance arc, meaning there's sufficient development without excessive wear and tear. And from a front office vantage point, teams would rather pay a discounted price for a restricted free agent than pay "retail" for unrestricted free agents. Yet RFAs have been largely ignored. Let's analyze the recent past:" Read more...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7820396/nfl-restricted-free-agency-verge-extinction

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 02:47 PM
Yeah, maybe in 10 million range, but then you wonder if someone who's only had one true dominating year is worth 10 mil a year. You want someone paid like that to be the cornerstone of their respective side of the ball, not a component that shoulders more responsibility.

You don't think back to back 1,000 yard seasons is dominating?

JayMas9
01-03-2013, 02:49 PM
Nicks had an off year completely due to injuries... and missed 6 games in 3 years prior.... He is such a quality receiver I am AMAZED how undervalued he is here.

We NEED Hakeem Nicks period.Nail hit directly on head.

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 02:52 PM
Nicks had an off year completely due to injuries... and missed 6 games in 3 years prior.... He is such a quality receiver I am AMAZED how undervalued he is here.

We NEED Hakeem Nicks period.

I agree right now. But, being the Devil's Advocate, suppose Nicks continues to have injury issues in the 2013 season and Randle starts to become a play maker. Will he still be undervalued in 2014?

TuckandRolle
01-03-2013, 02:53 PM
Reese never overpays and that won't change with Cruz, the contract will be beneficial to the team and Cruz, I could see a lot of incentives involved.

Morehead State
01-03-2013, 02:55 PM
Reese never overpays and that won't change with Cruz, the contract will be beneficial to the team and Cruz, I could see a lot of incentives involved.
Antrel Rolle and Chris Canty come to minds as exceptions.

Ruttiger711
01-03-2013, 03:10 PM
I agree right now. But, being the Devil's Advocate, suppose Nicks continues to have injury issues in the 2013 season and Randle starts to become a play maker. Will he still be undervalued in 2014?

Well if 2013 is a repeat of 2012 obviously not.

...but when I hear "injury issues" or "injury prone", a player like Bradshaw is what comes to mind... he's had bad feet, he had bad feet this year and no doubt will have bad feet in the future. Nicks broke his foot THIS year, he came back nearly recovered had a 200 yard game and then had his almost fully healed foot stepped on and had obvious setbacks. Next season will tell if hes injury prone, not what happened this year.

ShakeandBake
01-03-2013, 03:13 PM
Well if 2013 is a repeat of 2012 obviously not.

...but when I hear "injury issues" or "injury prone", a player like Bradshaw is what comes to mind... he's had bad feet, he had bad feet this year and no doubt will have bad feet in the future. Nicks broke his foot THIS year, he came back nearly recovered had a 200 yard game and then had his almost fully healed foot stepped on and had obvious setbacks. Next season will tell if hes injury prone, not what happened this year.

Agreed, missing 2 games per season on average is not injury prone

gmen0820
01-03-2013, 03:16 PM
You don't think back to back 1,000 yard seasons is dominating?No, not Cruz. I was talking about JPP in that post.

gmen0820
01-03-2013, 03:19 PM
The problem with a tender is you can lose the player:

Excerpt: "Restricted free agents -- three-year players with expiring contracts -- can receive offers from other teams, but the incumbent team has a right to match. Should it not match, it is entitled to draft-choice compensation corresponding to the level of tender placed on the player.

Personnel experts usually identify the time between the third and fifth year of a player's career as the "sweet spot" in the player's performance arc, meaning there's sufficient development without excessive wear and tear. And from a front office vantage point, teams would rather pay a discounted price for a restricted free agent than pay "retail" for unrestricted free agents. Yet RFAs have been largely ignored. Let's analyze the recent past:" Read more...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7820396/nfl-restricted-free-agency-verge-extinction
Is first round the highest tender, or is it 1st and 3rd?

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 03:31 PM
Is first round the highest tender, or is it 1st and 3rd?ive always wondered how the tender is set. is it by what the giants think FO think or is their a formula for it? i'd tender him 2 first round picks lol

gmen0820
01-03-2013, 03:41 PM
ive always wondered how the tender is set. is it by what the giants think FO think or is their a formula for it? i'd tender him 2 first round picks lolI'm pretty sure the highest RFA tender is a first at 2.8 mil if no one signs him to an offer sheet.

If it's a first and third, it wouldn't be a terrible move, depending on the location of the first round pick. It'd be a shame to lose a guy like Cruz, but the added picks could change the team-dynamic on offense to rely less on the talent of our WRs, and shift to a higher dependence on an elite OL. We've won with both formulas in the past.

nycisgreat
01-03-2013, 04:42 PM
8 to 10 mill per season is a bit too much for one receiver, and to big of a hit towards the came. Cruz will definitely be back, but It will interesting to see what kind of deal get done.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-03-2013, 04:45 PM
cruz gets big signing bonus up front and less per year?

giants8493
01-03-2013, 04:51 PM
I would rather sign dwayne bowe for 3 mil a year.

gmen0820
01-03-2013, 04:53 PM
I would rather sign dwayne bowe for 3 mil a year.Three mil a year? What can we land Jennings at, 1.5 mil?

giants8493
01-03-2013, 04:55 PM
Three mil a year? What can we land Jennings at, 1.5 mil?doubt jennings would only want 1.5 a year, but If he did I would take him too.

gmen0820
01-03-2013, 04:57 PM
doubt jennings would only want 1.5 a year, but If he did I would take him too.2.5 and a gift card to The Red Lobster

giants8493
01-03-2013, 04:58 PM
2.5 and a gift card to The Red LobsterMaybe we could negotiate beer into the contract?

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 05:07 PM
Well if 2013 is a repeat of 2012 obviously not.

...but when I hear "injury issues" or "injury prone", a player like Bradshaw is what comes to mind... he's had bad feet, he had bad feet this year and no doubt will have bad feet in the future. Nicks broke his foot THIS year, he came back nearly recovered had a 200 yard game and then had his almost fully healed foot stepped on and had obvious setbacks. Next season will tell if hes injury prone, not what happened this year.

I don't think Nicks is in the same category as Bradshaw who is perennially injured. But I do think the style of play for a running back and wide receiver require different skill sets. Nicks had a broken foot which healed and then the knee. I am assuming his knee will heal up with a few months rest and or some medical procedure if indicated.

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 05:08 PM
This whole Cruz debate is funny.

Just wait till next year when people's heads explode because JPP wants $15 million/year.

He needs to have a better year than he had this season to get anything close to that.

thegreatone
01-03-2013, 05:39 PM
Maybe not 8-10 but 6.5 or 7 per year is likely going to happen so people better start getting used to that idea because nothing any of us here say is going to matter.Isn't that close to what Steve smith was offered? If so I agree I think 8 would be the absolute top dollar we'd offer. I'm fine with that as long as he concentrates on football 100%

NYGiantsFan56
01-04-2013, 02:41 PM
It looks like there is a strong probability that Cruz won't be in our future plans. It appears he is looking for 8-10 million dollars a year. I think he's worth something in that range but the Giants will never pay that to him with all their contracts coming up and no big cap increases for next year. Also they will have to give Nicks the same which they cannot afford. So unless something gets worked out, IMO next year may be his last. I hope this gets resolved because I want him to be a Giant for a long time.

BROADWAYSTORM
01-04-2013, 02:45 PM
There's like a hundred thousand threads about this.

RoanokeFan
01-04-2013, 02:52 PM
It looks like there is a strong probability that Cruz won't be in our future plans. It appears he is looking for 8-10 million dollars a year. I think he's worth something in that range but the Giants will never pay that to him with all their contracts coming up and no big cap increases for next year. Also they will have to give Nicks the same which they cannot afford. So unless something gets worked out, IMO next year may be his last. I hope this gets resolved because I want him to be a Giant for a long time.

OK, we've done this to death already. HE isn't asking for $8 - 10 M. That figure was an UNEDUCATED GUESS by a media head. We don't know what he's actually asking for but we do know from him that he's positive about his negotiations resulting in a long term deal with the GIANTS.

njg85m
01-04-2013, 03:00 PM
OK, we've done this to death already. HE isn't asking for $8 - 10 M. That figure was an UNEDUCATED GUESS by a media head. We don't know what he's actually asking for but we do know from him that he's positive about his negotiations resulting in a long term deal with the GIANTS.

While you are completely correct Roanoke, the media reports themselves are still not going to do us any good.
You have to believe that Cruz, and especially his agent, have seen all 3000 headlines by now that claim he is worth $8-10 mil a season.

Morehead State
01-04-2013, 03:01 PM
While you are completely correct Roanoke, the media reports themselves are still not going to do us any good.
You have to believe that Cruz, and especially his agent, have seen all 3000 headlines by now that claim he is worth $8-10 mil a season.
What's the relevance of that?

njg85m
01-04-2013, 03:06 PM
What's the relevance of that?

The relevance is that there are a couple teams in the league (*cough* raiders *cough*) who would be more than willing to pay that amount when Cruz starts to believe that's what he's worth. And the only thing I'm saying is that the nonstop media reports claiming that's what he's going to be asking for are definitely not helping one way or the other.

You and I both know that.