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View Full Version : Kiwanuka stud pass rusher or bust?



moosedrool
01-03-2013, 10:08 PM
I was looking through the year end PFF stats and sorted 4-3 OLB's by pass rush grade. Kiwanuka was the lowest graded. I know he is playing out of position, but you would think a guy drafted for his pass rush ability would have graded much higher and recorded more than 3 sacks.




Name

Team

Snaps

Rush



1

Von Miller

DEN

996

51.4



2

Philip Wheeler

OAK

1043

8.6



3

Akeem Ayers

TEN

874

6.8



4

Sean Weatherspoon

ATL

846

5.0



5

Jerod Mayo

NE

1073

4.8



6

Dont'a Hightower

NE

542

3.8



7

JoLonn Dunbar

SL

1088

2.6



8

Kevin Burnett

MIA

1096

2.2



9

Erin Henderson

MIN

701

1.7



10

Manny Lawson

CIN

362

1.4



11

Russell Allen

JAX

1011

1.3



12

Kaluka Maiava

CLV

498

1.2



13

Lance Briggs

CHI

1025

1.0



14

James-Michael Johnson

CLV

294

0.7



15

Wesley Woodyard

DEN

908

0.6



16

Zach Brown

TEN

643

0.4



17

Nigel Bradham

BUF

402

0.1



18

K.J. Wright

SEA

890

-0.1



19

Jonathan Vilma

NO

410

-0.2



19

David Hawthorne

NO

325

-0.2



21

Chad Greenway

MIN

1158

-0.3



21

DeAndre Levy

DET

729

-0.3



23

Nick Roach

CHI

434

-0.6



23

Stephen Nicholas

ATL

890

-0.6



23

Craig Robertson

CLV

628

-0.6



23

Mychal Kendricks

PHI

955

-0.6



27

Leroy Hill

SEA

514

-0.7



27

Akeem Jordan

PHI

342

-0.7



29

Jacquian Williams

NYG

299

-1.4



30

Bryan Scott

BUF

604

-1.8



31

Julian Stanford

JAX

353

-2.1



32

Thomas Davis

CAR

798

-2.2



32

Justin Durant

DET

875

-2.2



34

James Anderson

CAR

528

-2.5



35

Quincy Black

TB

300

-2.6



36

Michael Boley

NYG

859

-2.8



37

Rocky McIntosh

SL

456

-2.9



38

Lavonte David

TB

1090

-3.0



38

Koa Misi

MIA

559

-3.0



38

Vontaze Burfict

CIN

905

-3.0



41

Miles Burris

OAK

893

-3.8



42

Nick Barnett

BUF

1024

-3.9



43

Mathias Kiwanuka

NYG

539

-5.5

jomo
01-03-2013, 10:28 PM
Neither

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 10:33 PM
Do they grade him at DE where he's split his time?

giantsfan420
01-03-2013, 10:44 PM
he didnt really start to play much DE until the SF, and kiwi also had some nagging injuries plague him this year. hes been out of position for a while as far as im concerned. he led the team in pressures one year when he actually played a full year healthy. hes still young. no way hes a bust. he will be fine wherever we use him.

egyptian420
01-03-2013, 10:54 PM
I like him more as a DE, as I'm sure he does as well

NYGisBallin
01-03-2013, 10:55 PM
Much better DE... With osi out.. I would assume he'll get more PT there.

RoanokeFan
01-03-2013, 10:59 PM
Much better DE... With osi out.. I would assume he'll get more PT there.

Makes sense

BROADWAYSTORM
01-04-2013, 02:44 AM
You do realize 90% of those guys play on 3-4 defenses which pad linebacker stats? However I do agree he is better as a DE and enough is enough with him at linebacker where he is just ok. Now that Osi is gone let him play from the 3 point stance.

slipknottin
01-04-2013, 02:53 AM
You do realize 90% of those guys play on 3-4 defenses which pad linebacker stats? However I do agree he is better as a DE and enough is enough with him at linebacker where he is just ok. Now that Osi is gone let him play from the 3 point stance.

Von Miller and Kiwi are the only guys on that list that spend most of their pass snaps rushing the passer


Kiwi had a really poor year. Both at LB and DL

Kruunch
01-04-2013, 09:14 AM
Von Miller and Kiwi are the only guys on that list that spend most of their pass snaps rushing the passer


Kiwi had a really poor year. Both at LB and DL

Kiwi had much more snaps at SAM than he did as DE (not to mention he was dropped into coverage a few times on zone blitzes).

Another reason I hate PFF ... stupid to rank someone who was part time at best and to equate a passing rushing OLB in a 3-4 and a SAM LB in a 4-3 is moronic.

Kiwi plays best at the line. While not a "stud" pass rusher, he's a very good compliment guy. I'd love to see him replace Tuck in the main rotation at strong side DE. JPP's sacks would shoot back up.

Redeyejedi
01-04-2013, 09:45 AM
He isnt either of those things.

moosedrool
01-04-2013, 03:13 PM
Another reason I hate PFF ... stupid to rank someone who was part time at best and to equate a passing rushing OLB in a 3-4 and a SAM LB in a 4-3 is moronic..

You obviously don't understand how PFF calculates their pass rush grade. Only plays where they rush the passer are included in the pass rush grade, so regardless of where the starting point is, each rush is evaluated. Did he beat his man? Did he get stacked? Did he get a pressure? Did he get a QB hit? Did he get a sack? All those things are considered and a grade assigned for each pass rush. -5.5 for the year is really bad.

moosedrool
01-04-2013, 03:18 PM
You do realize 90% of those guys play on 3-4 defenses which pad linebacker stats?.

Wrong. This list is for 4-3 OLB's. There is a separate list for 3-4 OLB's.

BROADWAYSTORM
01-04-2013, 03:37 PM
Inside 3-4 LB's rush the passer too on blitzes and I see many of them on that list.

moosedrool
01-04-2013, 04:02 PM
Inside 3-4 LB's rush the passer too on blitzes and I see many of them on that list.

Many? Who?

Diamondring
01-04-2013, 04:30 PM
He isnt either of those things.I'm right with you on that.

TroyArcher
01-04-2013, 04:44 PM
He is a DE not an LB. If he goes DE all the time I think he is OK, middle of the pack.

fourth&forever
01-04-2013, 09:24 PM
Kiwi has a down year and the OP has the gall to use the word bust. As if he sucks and we should discard him. Blasphemy!

gmen0820
01-04-2013, 09:26 PM
Neither, he's a solid player. I think he's fulfilled expectations reasonable after being a late first-round pick. If he permanently switches back to the DL, he should have moderate success as a DE, and provide versatility when we kick him in the middle on passing downs.

joemorrisforprez
01-04-2013, 10:16 PM
When Osi leaves, Kiwi should take his spot, and maybe draft a legitimate linebacker.

alentown pa
01-04-2013, 11:11 PM
when he played DE in 08, I thought he was very good not great, good rushing the passer, I think he had 8 sacks but played the run well too..they have moved him around too much imo, and he has never complained, a true team player..I think he has been a very good player for us.

radar-ray
01-04-2013, 11:12 PM
They have screwed Kiwi's potential up. He is a DE.

alentown pa
01-04-2013, 11:12 PM
I hate ripping coordinators, but I have never been a fan of fewell, too loose in coverage at times it seems, maybe im wrong but he doesnt seem to push the rite buttons, I know we won a superbowl with him, but something is off.

joemorrisforprez
01-04-2013, 11:13 PM
when he played DE in 08, I thought he was very good not great, good rushing the passer, I think he had 8 sacks but played the run well too..they have moved him around too much imo, and he has never complained, a true team player..I think he has been a very good player for us.

I agree....he was always a solid DE.....good defending the run, and a good pass rusher too. I always thought he was a more complete DE than Osi.....it's just Osi's one trick (the strip sack) was such a disruptive play.

alentown pa
01-04-2013, 11:18 PM
I agree....he was always a solid DE.....good defending the run, and a good pass rusher too. I always thought he was a more complete DE than Osi.....it's just Osi's one trick (the strip sack) was such a disruptive play.

agreed 100%..osi was an excellent speed rusher and made big plays for us but play in and play out I felt Kiwi was solid.