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View Full Version : Should have taken a chance on Vontaze Burfict.... :(



NYG4lifeNYK
01-05-2013, 05:09 PM
Would of got such a huge steal.... never understood why we would shy away from players with character issues as we have the coaching staff and leadership to "right them"


Hindsight is always 20/20 :mad: However whenever a guy with potential like that drops so low I feel we should grab them everytime with the stable organization we have. Instead of picking a huge project that likely won't amount to much.

TheEnigma
01-05-2013, 05:21 PM
He's not too shabby but let's not act like the kid is a beast or anything. Well, anyone playing next to Maulaluga will look like a stud.

juice33s
01-05-2013, 05:21 PM
This season it will be Tyrann Mathieu, who I I really like and want

myles2424
01-05-2013, 05:23 PM
so many late round picks turn into crap, wich is why taking a chance on a guy like Burfict in the 6th or 7th is the right thing to do....
I believe in taking BPA,especialy late in the draft, no projects..

NYG4lifeNYK
01-05-2013, 05:31 PM
so many late round picks turn into crap, wich is why taking a chance on a guy like Burfict in the 6th or 7th is the right thing to do....
I believe in taking BPA,especialy late in the draft, no projects..

Exactly.... especially with our organization.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-05-2013, 05:31 PM
He's not too shabby but let's not act like the kid is a beast or anything. Well, anyone playing next to Maulaluga will look like a stud.
Let's not act like he wouldn't be a WELCOME addition to our weak LB corps lol

dave56dj
01-05-2013, 05:36 PM
Lets be clear here - Burfict was a monster in high school and flashed some great talent in college. He was a NIGHTMARE mentally and then got the label (partially from mayock shockingly) that he was undiscplined in his game too. Not sure i agreed with him. But this guy fell from 1st rounder to undrafted - thats unreal. But i simply can't fault the gmen for passing on a known headcase. Now hindsight is 20 20, and enigma id argue he is in fact looking beastly - he had 20 tackles last week and as a rookie has been very good starting - thats rare for a rookie. Look the gmen went this route with austin(off field issues) and AB - sometimes it pans out - sometimes you end up with pacman jones (good and bad).

Juanito
01-05-2013, 05:38 PM
Seriously, for once, upgrade the linebacker positions this year, no more cheap free agents or 5th round picks.

TheEnigma
01-05-2013, 05:42 PM
Let's just wait a little longer before placing the crown on his head. He's certainly done better than I expected but you don't think it helps slightly to have Geno Atkins in front of you or one of the worst MLBs next to him to boost his tackles?

NYG4lifeNYK
01-05-2013, 05:43 PM
Lets be clear here - Burfict was a monster in high school and flashed some great talent in college. He was a NIGHTMARE mentally and then got the label (partially from mayock shockingly) that he was undiscplined in his game too. Not sure i agreed with him. But this guy fell from 1st rounder to undrafted - thats unreal. But i simply can't fault the gmen for passing on a known headcase. Now hindsight is 20 20, and enigma id argue he is in fact looking beastly - he had 20 tackles last week and as a rookie has been very good starting - thats rare for a rookie. Look the gmen went this route with austin(off field issues) and AB - sometimes it pans out - sometimes you end up with pacman jones (good and bad).

How can you justify not bringing in a guy with that much talent in say a round 6 or 7? Much less not taking him an an UDFA.

Just sucks because I want some damn LBers...... it's painful remembering our physical defense of old which revolved around our dominating LB corps....

slipknottin
01-05-2013, 05:54 PM
I have absolutely no problem with not taking a chance on him. He was an out of shape bum who had horrible interviews and his tape his senior year was awful.

Him not getting drafted may have been the wake up call he needed

But I for one would never take the chance on a player like that. There are too many good personality type players out there to start dealing with poor ones

dave56dj
01-05-2013, 06:01 PM
I guess what slip said and what i just stated - kid was beyond a head case. Also I dont understand your point - i mean every team in NFL passed and justified it 7 times over. Now you are trying some revisionist history. We can do this with so many players - it happened for a reason. In his first year burfict has looked great but does this mean he will be clean for his career who knows. He fell for a reason, cincy took a gamble and won - kudos to them.

ozzie0075
01-05-2013, 06:03 PM
Would of got such a huge steal.... never understood why we would shy away from players with character issues as we have the coaching staff and leadership to "right them"


Hindsight is always 20/20 :mad: However whenever a guy with potential like that drops so low I feel we should grab them everytime with the stable organization we have. Instead of picking a huge project that likely won't amount to much.

Giants took a chance on Will Hill who has character issues but he always played hard. Burfict played like he just didn't care.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-05-2013, 06:05 PM
I have absolutely no problem with not taking a chance on him. He was an out of shape bum who had horrible interviews and his tape his senior year was awful.

Him not getting drafted may have been the wake up call he needed

But I for one would never take the chance on a player like that. There are too many good personality type players out there to start dealing with poor ones
Thing is we have a great organization to straighten these players out and turn them into something special.

I would always probably 8/10 take a player like that in the last 2 rounds unless their character is just despicable.

dave56dj
01-05-2013, 06:08 PM
He was fairly despicable and did we stop plax from shooting himself. The guy helped win a championship so not best example but he derailed 08 postseason too. Lt ran amuck - hamitlon had issues and many others. Theres only so much you can do with some guys. Again he was passed on for a reason and all 31 teams are probably wondering why they didnt gamble but they know why and all you can do is tip your hat to marvin lewis and the bengals and move on. Gmen take gambles too - hill and ab but perhaps burfict didnt seem like a guy who was sorry - in fact all reports indicated he did not at all.

TheEnigma
01-05-2013, 06:11 PM
I suppose most of the NFL didn't like the fact Burfict's character concerns were on the field and in the locker room as opposed to Hill just partying with drugs or AB stealing a playstation. You have to be cautious with how many character risk guys you take because you can potentially become the Detroit Lions if they "infect" the team.

ozzie0075
01-05-2013, 06:12 PM
Thing is we have a great organization to straighten these players out and turn them into something special.

I would always probably 8/10 take a player like that in the last 2 rounds unless their character is just despicable.

He was considered a cancer coming out of college. During his interviews he blamed his college coaches for his poor play. Most teams don't want a guy without any accountability. That combined with his poor conditioning, being often out of position and his rep as a dirty player are all why he went undrafted and a lot of teams wouldn't touch him.

dave56dj
01-05-2013, 06:15 PM
Also hill had the year off - outside the NFL showing he wanted it and keeping his nose clean. Guy was hungry and seemed remorseful.

TheEnigma
01-05-2013, 06:19 PM
Also hill had the year off - outside the NFL showing he wanted it and keeping his nose clean. Guy was hungry and seemed remorseful.

Just wanted to take the opportunity to say Hill is going to be our best Safety in 2-3 years. I can't remember which preseason game it was but he ended up taking out the pulling lineman AND the runner at the same time. Just natural strength and playmaking ability he displayed.

Cloud57
01-05-2013, 06:25 PM
We waste draft picks on projects which are usually busts

ShakeandBake
01-05-2013, 06:27 PM
Just wanted to take the opportunity to say Hill is going to be our best Safety in 2-3 years. I can't remember which preseason game it was but he ended up taking out the pulling lineman AND the runner at the same time. Just natural strength and playmaking ability he displayed.

He took out the Fullback and the tailback in one shot, I remember that play as well it was a nice tackle

ozzie0075
01-05-2013, 06:27 PM
We waste draft picks on projects which are usually busts

Most late round picks don't work out for most teams so you can't call them busts.

dave56dj
01-05-2013, 06:36 PM
Actually reeese has done a nice job findin late round steals, but as stated lat rounders are late for a reason. Still AB (7th round)/ Boss (5th round)/ Diehl (thats accorsi 5th round ), gibril (accorsi), Hill (udfa), Cruz (UDFA), Jwill (6th round), paysinger (udfa), herzlich (udfa) chase (udfa).

These are contributors to the gmen and found in late rounds or undrafted - they are projects for just that reason, they dont have the pedigree or played as well in college and therfore slip in the draft or go undrafted but reeese has uncovered many good special teamers or rotational guys or starters and even stars. Of course late picks are projectsor gambles, all of them are.

TCHOF
01-05-2013, 06:39 PM
Also hill had the year off - outside the NFL showing he wanted it and keeping his nose clean. Guy was hungry and seemed remorseful.

Except for his 4 game suspension.

TCHOF
01-05-2013, 06:46 PM
so many late round picks turn into crap, wich is why taking a chance on a guy like Burfict in the 6th or 7th is the right thing to do....
I believe in taking BPA,especialy late in the draft, no projects..

Best Player Available? Burfict was awful his senior year. He was a bad player, with a bad work ethic and character concerns, who reportedly was horrible during his combine interviews. Every team passed on him 7 times during the draft.

I think it's great that he turned his act around, but for every guy like him that turns his act around there are 1000 that don't.

I wouldn't have touched the guy with a ten foot pole. Hindsight is 20/20 though.

dave56dj
01-05-2013, 06:49 PM
TCHOF good point on hill - i guess every guy just says aderroll and i have believed it but that doesnt mean its true.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-05-2013, 06:56 PM
What I'm saying is instead of taking a player who will struggle to even be depth on our team why not take a guy with great talent and at worst cut his *** if he doesn't shape up a bit.

If he can't make it in our organization that's saying a lot.


I'd prefer we roll the dice when a guy slips THAT much.

dave56dj
01-05-2013, 06:58 PM
I dont think the giants every draft players thinking they have no chance - they are gambles in late rounds just like burfict - the hope is they develop like AB or Jwill and pan out - they dont always work - hence the late round or undrafted label.

Drez
01-05-2013, 07:19 PM
so many late round picks turn into crap, wich is why taking a chance on a guy like Burfict in the 6th or 7th is the right thing to do....
I believe in taking BPA,especialy late in the draft, no projects..
Aren't most players late in the draft projects? I mean, if they weren't why are they drafted so low?

Drez
01-05-2013, 07:21 PM
Most late round picks don't work out for most teams so you can't call them busts.
Exactly. There's a reason they are getting drafted so late.

ShakeandBake
01-05-2013, 07:34 PM
Burfict just got flagged for a pretty blatant and unnecessary shot to the helmet

dave56dj
01-05-2013, 07:39 PM
He did but that shouldnt factor into the fact that he had a great rookie year. Those penalties will happen, especially to backers and safeties, but yes you need to see what you hit.

TCHOF
01-05-2013, 07:41 PM
What I'm saying is instead of taking a player who will struggle to even be depth on our team why not take a guy with great talent and at worst cut his *** if he doesn't shape up a bit.

If he can't make it in our organization that's saying a lot.


I'd prefer we roll the dice when a guy slips THAT much.

I'm not sure how a team would come to the conclusion that a guy who had a terrible senior season on the filed has "great" talent.

Redeyejedi
01-06-2013, 01:51 PM
Would of got such a huge steal.... never understood why we would shy away from players with character issues as we have the coaching staff and leadership to "right them"


Hindsight is always 20/20 :mad: However whenever a guy with potential like that drops so low I feel we should grab them everytime with the stable organization we have. Instead of picking a huge project that likely won't amount to much.If it was just his character but His tape was horrible last year. Not only that but coaches said he was the laziest player on the team.he also failed the combine drug test. He had horrible combine interviews. His combine numbers were crap 2. Kind of disagree he looked like a great talent

GameTime
01-06-2013, 01:54 PM
we should have taken chances on every player that this board wanted but didnt get.....:p

Buddy333
01-06-2013, 01:55 PM
Apparently 32 teams passed on him 7 times.

GameTime
01-06-2013, 01:56 PM
Apparently 32 teams passed on him 7 times.
yeah but he made a good play yesterday....damn it the giants should have had him!!!!!!!!

Cloud57
01-06-2013, 02:15 PM
yeah but he made a good play yesterday....damn it the giants should have had him!!!!!!!!our linebackers SUCKS, he would have been better that what we currently have.

slipknottin
01-06-2013, 02:16 PM
Thing is we have a great organization to straighten these players out and turn them into something special.

I would always probably 8/10 take a player like that in the last 2 rounds unless their character is just despicable.

The giants have a great org because they dont bring in problem players.

myles2424
01-06-2013, 02:37 PM
Aren't most players late in the draft projects? I mean, if they weren't why are they drafted so low?

Projects as in taking some dude thst nobodys ever heard of for some bs reason while guys thst were projected as 3rds & 4ths are on board

slipknottin
01-06-2013, 02:45 PM
Projects as in taking some dude thst nobodys ever heard of for some bs reason while guys thst were projected as 3rds & 4ths are on board

The only player Reese has drafted that nobody has heard of is J Will, and he may be the best LB on the team.

Redeyejedi
01-06-2013, 08:17 PM
The only player Reese has drafted that nobody has heard of is J Will, and he may be the best LB on the team.Adrien Robinson wasnt that well known either. JWill i was pissed i missed on tape

myles2424
01-06-2013, 09:10 PM
The only player Reese has drafted that nobody has heard of is J Will, and he may be the best LB on the team.

Just saying, we definitely dont stick to bpa in the late rounds...look back the past few drafts & williams is the only one worth a damn

GameTime
01-06-2013, 09:12 PM
our linebackers SUCKS, he would have been better that what we currently have.
and you know that just how????
oh right because he "could have" been a Giant so he must be better....
got it....

Giantslb66
01-06-2013, 09:29 PM
We waste draft picks on projects which are usually bustsWe do hear that A LOT with many of our picks after the 2nd round.

slipknottin
01-06-2013, 09:37 PM
Just saying, we definitely dont stick to bpa in the late rounds...look back the past few drafts & williams is the only one worth a damn

Its like that for every team in the league

DarceChoke
01-06-2013, 10:48 PM
We do hear that A LOT with many of our picks after the 2nd round. Late round picks all have flaws or question marks which is why they go late in the draft... So every team in the league selects "projects" in the later rounds.

GMenNFCBeasts
01-07-2013, 08:14 AM
Would of got such a huge steal.... never understood why we would shy away from players with character issues as we have the coaching staff and leadership to "right them"


Hindsight is always 20/20 :mad: However whenever a guy with potential like that drops so low I feel we should grab them everytime with the stable organization we have. Instead of picking a huge project that likely won't amount to much.
How can you say that? Just be lucky that we got JPP in the draft instead of that headcase McClain out in Oakland whom the Raiders cut already. Jerry Jones always seems to have an eye for talent and drafts studs, but they usually have huge character issues which lead to discipline problems on the field with penalties and issues off the field.

Redeyejedi
01-07-2013, 08:28 AM
I cant blame the Giants for passing on him. 2011 Season I watched Burfict's first 4 games to cut for videos. During the 4th one i was asking myself why the hell am I watching this guy every week. His tape was horrendous. What made matters worse was he didnt take to coaching at all.He could of still been drafted off some of his 2010 games if he had tested well at the combine but he showed up out of shape , interviewers couldnt stand him and he failed a drug test. Giants were supposed to ignore all that and have blind faith in he would play better , why would they.

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 09:50 AM
There are a couple types of players you can get in late rounds.

1. The complete but limited player - aka the Tyler Sash. He is probably as good as he will ever be coming out, but has almost no upside because he is physically limited. These type of players generally are ST players, perhaps spot starters or package players. Almost never turn into more.

2. the project players - aka J Will, these guys have a ways to go mentally and physically may still be developing as well, but they have the attributes that could possibly allow them to be starters one day.

3. Quality players with off the field or other issues - Bradshaw, these guys have to be kept on a short leash, have to be monitored, and very rarely pan out, usually they fight with coaching and control, or just really never get their head in it and work hard enough to turn the corner. But they are talented enough to be capable players if they ever do learn how to be an NFL player.

So the giants have taken all 3 types, and I wouldnt say one group has been any more successful than the other.