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View Full Version : With FA looming, Let's compile a list of former Giants who committed 'career suicide'



NYG4lifeNYK
01-05-2013, 06:25 PM
So the topic title only allows so many words. Basically let's compile a complete list of players whose performance 'fell off' considerably the following season(s) after departing us.


I'll start..

Brandon Jacobs :(
Manningham
Shockey
Steve Smith
Bavaro (Was actually cut after the injury so really doesn't qualify, although he would of retired a Giant)
Plax
Gibril Wilson
Kevin Boss
Goff
Aaron Ross
Tollefson
Cofield (Could of had another ring)
Tiki (Retired but would have probably won a ring)
Armstead
Luke Petitgout
Ike Hilliard
Tim Carter (Although he was traded)
Will Allen
William Joseph ? Can't remember if we released him or not
Derrick Ward :( loved Ward
Will Demps


That's QUITE the long list....




List of players that have done well for themselves:

Visanthe
Jurevicus
Ron Dayne
Dhani Jones
Freddy Robbins


Add on


Basically almost everyone that departs us in one way or another would give their pay check to be back in Giants blue.

dave56dj
01-05-2013, 06:28 PM
PLax shot himself
Dont fully agree with mario - went to a good team had a decent year and got hurt - but team went further then gmen
Luke played almost his whole career with gmen and we let him go - just tried to extend his career.
Tolly and gibril just wanted pay days cant blame em - werent getting it here - guess same can be said of most guys.

i'd agree that they may have been better off in blue but these guys have to get paid and quickly the time span of a player is so small.

Its about getting paid to make a living or an entire lifetime off a bonecrunching sport. Then once the contract is signed the guys can focus on winning. But I really dont blame one of them for the former. I will say a guy like jacobs could easily have taken a couple of hundred thousand less to stay in blue and actually play. With the great deal of cash being offered .1 or .5 really has to be considered carefully if you are in a good spot (starting or rotating in) with a goodQB/ coach/ offense - like the Gmen have helping your stats

gmen0820
01-05-2013, 06:29 PM
I'm sure every team has a similar sized list.

Hassett00
01-05-2013, 06:43 PM
I would say Cameron Wake but we cut him before he even played a snap for us

ozzie0075
01-05-2013, 07:14 PM
So the topic title only allows so many words. Basically let's compile a complete list of players whose performance 'fell off' considerably the following season(s) after departing us.


I'll start..

Brandon Jacobs :(
Manningham
Shockey
Steve Smith
Bavaro (Was actually cut after the injury so really doesn't qualify, although he would of retired a Giant)
Plax
Gibril Wilson
Kevin Boss
Goff
Aaron Ross
Tollefson
Cofield (Could of had another ring)
Tiki (Retired but would have probably won a ring)
Armstead
Luke Petitgout
Ike Hilliard
Tim Carter (Although he was traded)
Will Allen
William Joseph ? Can't remember if we released him or not
Derrick Ward :( loved Ward
Will Demps


That's QUITE the long list....




List of players that have done well for themselves:

Visanthe
Jurevicus
Ron Dayne
Dhani Jones
Freddy Robbins


Add on


Basically almost everyone that departs us in one way or another would give their pay check to be back in Giants blue.

Coefield was been a very solid player for the skins.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-05-2013, 07:43 PM
Coefield was been a very solid player for the skins.

I listed him because he could have won another ring. Can't blame him for wanting a pay day though.

penguinfarmer
01-05-2013, 07:46 PM
But the title of the thread is career suicide. Cofield surely did not do that.

SimmsandLT
01-05-2013, 07:47 PM
I listed him because he could have won another ring. Can't blame him for wanting a pay day though.

He could possibly win another this year....

dave56dj
01-05-2013, 07:47 PM
NYG i think i would agree that most of these guys could have had more playing time and even more on field success with gmen but that said would it have benefited them off the field. They have to be business men first and take care of their lives. The game they play takes years off their lives and could injure them for life. I understand their need for the most money they can get. Yes sometimes guys who are making 5 mill a year could take 4.5 but its much harder for the guy making 2.9 to take 2.3 not knowing if he has much longer in the league.

How can shockey win another - he isnt in league.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-05-2013, 07:49 PM
PLax shot himself
Dont fully agree with mario - went to a good team had a decent year and got hurt - but team went further then gmen
Luke played almost his whole career with gmen and we let him go - just tried to extend his career.
Tolly and gibril just wanted pay days cant blame em - werent getting it here - guess same can be said of most guys.

i'd agree that they may have been better off in blue but these guys have to get paid and quickly the time span of a player is so small.

Its about getting paid to make a living or an entire lifetime off a bonecrunching sport. Then once the contract is signed the guys can focus on winning. But I really dont blame one of them for the former. I will say a guy like jacobs could easily have taken a couple of hundred thousand less to stay in blue and actually play. With the great deal of cash being offered .1 or .5 really has to be considered carefully if you are in a good spot (starting or rotating in) with a goodQB/ coach/ offense - like the Gmen have helping your stats

I wouldn't say Rio had a decent year at all, even before the injury. You really think he enjoyed going from Eli Mannign to Alex Smith? lol

Ah right, forgot he released Luke.

Can't blame Tollefson but Gibril had it good here. His career was over once he went the Oakland. Although he had his best season with them.... just no team success. have to wonder if he regrets that decision.

SimmsandLT
01-05-2013, 07:50 PM
How can shockey win another - he isnt in league.

He was referring to Cofield, not Shockey.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-05-2013, 07:52 PM
But the title of the thread is career suicide. Cofield surely did not do that.

That's true now that they have RG3 but again he could of won another ring.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-05-2013, 07:52 PM
He could possibly win another this year....

LOL.... come on man.

Not a chance in hell

ozzie0075
01-05-2013, 07:53 PM
I wouldn't say Rio had a decent year at all, even before the injury. You really think he enjoyed going from Eli Mannign to Alex Smith? lol

Ah right, forgot he released Luke.

Can't blame Tollefson but Gibril had it good here. His career was over once he went the Oakland. Although he had his best season with them.... just no team success. have to wonder if he regrets that decision.

Its hard to blame a guy like Gibril for taking the money. A team was willing to pay him way more than he was worth. With such a limited shelf life in this league you have to take the money when you get the chance and I would do the same if it was me. It is a job for these guys after all

dave56dj
01-05-2013, 07:55 PM
aha excusem me.

As for rio in 12 games he had 42 catches - last year in 12 games he had 39. Yards are close, more td's with gmen. Would he rather play with eli over colin - im sure but he was (pre injury) on a more successful team and was a big part of it. I believe there second leading receiver (although te had more). Still he got more money and team went further. Maybe he goes further with blue but i cant blame him for taking the money.

Gibril got the classic overpay coming off a superbowl win - took the money and ran west, cant blame him. Again the success for them is getting that pay day and setting up there lives, then the winning aspect. It may be true that more winning you do the better money success you can have too but they really cant wait on that and the late pick guys (like gibril) who dont have BIG TIME first contracts have to take advantage of there big payday opps, they usually only come once.

Flip Empty
01-05-2013, 07:55 PM
Manningham has done fine and could win another ring, Cofield has done great, Plax had a good season with the Jets, Shockey got another ring, Boss got hurt, Smith got hurt, Goff was never that good to begin with...

What are the qualifiers for "career suicide", exactly?

SimmsandLT
01-05-2013, 07:55 PM
LOL.... come on man.

Not a chance in hell

The Skins are in the playoffs, so like everyone else in the playoffs, they have a chance :)

dave56dj
01-05-2013, 07:57 PM
LOL.... come on man.

Not a chance in hell

said every non giant fan in 07 and 11

jomo
01-05-2013, 07:58 PM
I'm sure every team has a similar sized list.Probably so which makes my point that you don't win championships by signing other teams' free agents. The hit on the cap is great and the number of success stories is small compared with failures. Build through the draft and with "little" FA signings.

PS I'm not sure where the OP gets that Ron Dayne did well after his departure. If he did well, the bar is set very low.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-05-2013, 07:58 PM
Its hard to blame a guy like Gibril for taking the money. A team was willing to pay him way more than he was worth. With such a limited shelf life in this league you have to take the money when you get the chance and I would do the same if it was me. It is a job for these guys after all

I'm not saying I blame them but he does qualify for the list of players who went no where after they departed.

jomo
01-05-2013, 08:00 PM
Manningham has done fine and could win another ring, Cofield has done great, Plax had a good season with the Jets, Shockey got another ring, Boss got hurt, Smith got hurt, Goff was never that good to begin with...

What are the qualifiers for "career suicide", exactly?Manningham played below the money he got. Cofield has done great. Plax played below the money he got. shockey never earned the money he was paid after leaving. He go a ring based on what his teammates did. Boss got hurt, YES........Smith got hurt EXACTLY. Goff always sucked I agree.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-05-2013, 08:00 PM
Probably so which makes my point that you don't win championships by signing other teams' free agents. The hit on the cap is great and the number of success stories is small compared with failures. Build through the draft and with "little" FA signings.

PS I'm not sure where the OP gets that Ron Dayne did well after his departure. If he did well, the bar is set very low.

Dayne's last two years with the Texans gave his career a little resurgence.

Drez
01-05-2013, 08:05 PM
I wouldn't say Rio had a decent year at all, even before the injury. You really think he enjoyed going from Eli Mannign to Alex Smith? lol

Ah right, forgot he released Luke.

Can't blame Tollefson but Gibril had it good here. His career was over once he went the Oakland. Although he had his best season with them.... just no team success. have to wonder if he regrets that decision.
I doubt Wilson regrets getting $16m guaranteed from Oakland, as he wasn't getting that here.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-05-2013, 08:07 PM
aha excusem me.

As for rio in 12 games he had 42 catches - last year in 12 games he had 39. Yards are close, more td's with gmen. Would he rather play with eli over colin - im sure but he was (pre injury) on a more successful team and was a big part of it. I believe there second leading receiver (although te had more). Still he got more money and team went further. Maybe he goes further with blue but i cant blame him for taking the money.

Gibril got the classic overpay coming off a superbowl win - took the money and ran west, cant blame him. Again the success for them is getting that pay day and setting up there lives, then the winning aspect. It may be true that more winning you do the better money success you can have too but they really cant wait on that and the late pick guys (like gibril) who dont have BIG TIME first contracts have to take advantage of there big payday opps, they usually only come once.

Can't really use Rio's last season with us as a measure. His first two season illustrate what he's capable of, or at least was with us. He clearly regressed his last season with us.


Manningham has done fine and could win another ring, Cofield has done great, Plax had a good season with the Jets, Shockey got another ring, Boss got hurt, Smith got hurt, Goff was never that good to begin with...

What are the qualifiers for "career suicide", exactly?
Plax had an ok season with the Jets. You think he liked having Sanchez throwing to him?

Shockey missed NY but I suppose winning a ring is a nice reward.


Goff was one of the best run stopper in the NFL amongst ILB's the year before his injury.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-05-2013, 08:09 PM
I doubt Wilson regrets getting $16m guaranteed from Oakland, as he wasn't getting that here.

As I said, you can't blame them for wanting a pay day however that does not change the fact that his career was over once he left....especially with the choice he made in Oakland.

ozzie0075
01-05-2013, 08:13 PM
Can't really use Rio's last season with us as a measure. His first two season illustrate what he's capable of, or at least was with us. He clearly regressed his last season with us.


Plax had an ok season with the Jets. You think he liked having Sanchez throwing to him?

Shockey missed NY but I suppose winning a ring is a nice reward.


Goff was one of the best run stopper in the NFL amongst ILB's the year before his injury.

Rio had 4 catches for 26 yards his first season, Years 2 and 3 he was very good and has regressed a little bit in years 4 and 5 mainly due to injury.

Drez
01-05-2013, 08:14 PM
As I said, you can't blame them for wanting a pay day however that does not change the fact that his career was over once he left....especially with the choice he made in Oakland.
He was only in Oakland for a year before they realized they couldn't afford him, lol. Then he got $8m guaranteed from the Dolphins. He was only there a season, too. I don't think he regrets getting $24m (at least) in two years; you have to remember, he already had a ring, so it's not like he left that accomplishment unfulfilled.

dave56dj
01-05-2013, 08:14 PM
But the bigger point is not what they do - its about getting the money they need for their lives. You wanna argue Shockey who basically moved himself i agree. Or Jacobs who couldve gotten pt for a couple hundred thousand less upping his value, knowing gore and hunter were there I'd agree there too. But most guys need to get paid in a very small window in a very dangerous profession so what they do going fwd is really getting money and i cant blame them for this. Obviously going to oakland is not gonna help your stats and going to san fran where the passing game is much less and a lesser qb isnt gonna help your receiving stats but that doesn mean the team cant be good, and being on a good team always helps.

as for regressing - dont agree - really more a case of being nicked up and cruz's emergence.

Drez
01-05-2013, 08:16 PM
Or Jacobs who couldve gotten pt for a couple hundred thousand less upping his value, knowing gore and hunter were there I'd agree there too. Point about Jacobs... He had been due around $5m this season for us, but we cut him so we could rework a lesser deal. So, as far as he'd be concerned him signing with us for say $500k less than SF, was really like signing for $4m less than SF.

ozzie0075
01-05-2013, 08:18 PM
He was only in Oakland for a year before they realized they couldn't afford him, lol. Then he got $8m guaranteed from the Dolphins. He was only there a season, too. I don't think he regrets getting $24m (at least) in two years; you have to remember, he already had a ring, so it's not like he left that accomplishment unfulfilled.

Exactly I wouldn't call 24 mil guaranteed career suicide at all. Kinda seems like smart business to me.

dave56dj
01-05-2013, 08:18 PM
Hmm drez - didnt we cut him lose but then offer him a new deal - which was .5 less? I mean i think i understand your logic and perhaps bjac had a huge ego hit but ultimately that money was gone and then he didn't get many offers and took .5 more to go to a place where they were back heavy - or am i missing something?

Ruttiger711
01-05-2013, 08:22 PM
I'm not saying I blame them but he does qualify for the list of players who went no where after they departed.Oh he went somewhere - right to the BANK over the next 2 years with tons of money from the raiders and dolphins.


Gibril was set for life with millions more than he would have made w the GMEN. I totally get what your point of the thread is but I would hardly lump him in w he career suicide crowd.

Drez
01-05-2013, 08:24 PM
Hmm drez - didnt we cut him lose but then offer him a new deal - which was .5 less? I mean i think i understand your logic and perhaps bjac had a huge ego hit but ultimately that money was gone and then he didn't get many offers and took .5 more to go to a place where they were back heavy - or am i missing something?
No, you have the right of it. However, from his perspective, it could be seen as taking an even larger pay cut to stay here (as in, the Giants didn't value him enough to pay him his original contract, and now they want to pay even less than another team).

Drez
01-05-2013, 08:25 PM
Exactly I wouldn't call 24 mil guaranteed career suicide at all. Kinda seems like smart business to me. Considering he blew out his knee in '10, it was a smart decision.

nhpgiantsfan
01-05-2013, 08:27 PM
If you left your current employer for a big payday, one that you were never gonna get from your current employer, would you consider it career suicide. Sometimes people forget that this is employment for these players. Just like any other job, you try to put your family in the most secure position.

ozzie0075
01-05-2013, 08:29 PM
If you left your current employer for a big payday, one that you were never gonna get from your current employer, would you consider it career suicide. Sometimes people forget that this is employment for these players. Just like any other job, you try to put your family in the most secure position.

Exactly this thread fails to take into account that this is a business. And as great as winning championship are making as much money as possible is the ultimate goal for most of these guys.

dave56dj
01-05-2013, 08:30 PM
I see the ego hit for bjac - but at some point he has to realize that money is gone, im not getting offers and in san fran its gonna be hard to get pt. In Ny for .5 less (which is certainly a big hit) i can play and maybe get a new contract after. I think bjac wanted to get back at the giants and he had a small chance in san fran just didnt pan out. Be interesting to see what happens to him this offseason. Anyone want him back at vet min? Or for 1mil?

nhpgiantsfan
01-05-2013, 08:31 PM
You act like these players made a bad decision, when actually most of the players you list had no choice as the Giants really didn't pursue them.

Oh and I'm pretty sure if you ask Coefield, he's pretty happy right now.

miked1958
01-05-2013, 08:57 PM
Kevin dockery left for greener pastures after the 07 season and fell off from there.

miked1958
01-05-2013, 09:00 PM
Also James Butler and Kameika Mitchell from same season. Oh and I forgot Reggie Tabor

Drez
01-05-2013, 09:00 PM
Kevin dockery left for greener pastures after the 07 season and fell off from there.Kevin Dockery was never all that good to begin with.

miked1958
01-05-2013, 09:02 PM
Arron Ross from 2011 team. Never mind.. He was on OPs list

dave56dj
01-05-2013, 09:04 PM
Ugh while you may think of these guys as having lost - they all got more money and in a bone crunching violent sport which will cost them years on their lives most of them won in a business sense. Now you can argue that if some had stayed they could have made more money with more PT but thats a big risk in a dangerous sport.

miked1958
01-05-2013, 09:06 PM
Kevin Dockery was never all that good to begin with.well good enough that yr to help us win a SB. But like the OP said most of these guys left thinking they were superstars and found out it was the giants system and how they utilized them that made them successful. Mot of these guys failed after signing as free agents with other teams

miked1958
01-05-2013, 09:09 PM
What happened to Gerris Wilkenson? Was it season ending injury after season ending injury and finally Cut?

Flip Empty
01-05-2013, 09:09 PM
well good enough that yr to help us win a SB. But like the OP said most of these guys left thinking they were superstars and found out it was the giants system and how they utilized them that made them successful. Mot of these guys failed after signing as free agents with other teams
Sinorice Moss also helped the team win a title. Just because you played on a championship team, it doesn't mean you were any good.

If a player up and leaves for a pay day, that's the complete opposite of "career suicide".

Drez
01-05-2013, 09:19 PM
well good enough that yr to help us win a SB.
As what, our 5th CB?

laylow28
01-05-2013, 09:56 PM
Basically almost everyone that departs us in one way or another would give their pay check to be back in Giants blue. Yeah right! Don't kid yourself,usually its all bout the $$$.

BigBlueAllDay
01-05-2013, 11:10 PM
No doubt it's all about the $$$. At least 80% of that list got bigger contracts than the Giants would offer to re-sign. However, the part where the players are also good because of the Giants system will get overlooked.

GiantLegend
01-06-2013, 04:17 AM
I wish Shockey had stayed with us. I loved that guy. A shame he was kind of a basket case.

nhpgiantsfan
01-06-2013, 09:46 AM
Amazing! This team has such ability to make mediocre football players play better, yet we have only won two championships in 20+ years. Stop being homers these guy were all average players here and went on to be average elsewhere. Guys like Bavaro, Tiki, Pettigut, and Armstead, don't belong on the list. They were all done by the time they left here. The rest were bad players anyway. The only two good players that left, actually left for big contacts: Gibril and Coefield. And who can blame them.

There are 53 players on every team. The changeover is huge every year.

Redeyejedi
01-06-2013, 09:57 AM
Yeah right! Don't kid yourself,usually its all bout the $$$. Doubt Steve Smith would. Smartest thing he ever did was take that money from Philly. His career is likely over at least he got himself that 4 million

TCHOF
01-06-2013, 10:08 AM
Doubt Steve Smith would. Smartest thing he ever did was take that money from Philly. His career is likely over at least he got himself that 4 million

+1

TCHOF
01-06-2013, 10:08 AM
I wish Shockey had stayed with us. I loved that guy. A shame he was kind of a basket case.

Extremely overrated and selfish player.

nhpgiantsfan
01-06-2013, 10:25 AM
Extremely overrated and selfish player.

Shellfish yes. But he was extremely talented but couldn't stay healthy.

GameTime
01-06-2013, 10:31 AM
Coefield is doing well. MM did well in SFG this season. Hillard had a decent career after he left. Will Allen played a long time after he left.
Armsetad did ok in DC.

jomo
01-06-2013, 11:38 AM
Shellfish yes. But he was extremely talented but couldn't stay healthy.Lobster, crab, clams or mussels? :D

jomo
01-06-2013, 11:42 AM
Doubt Steve Smith would. Smartest thing he ever did was take that money from Philly. His career is likely over at least he got himself that 4 millionHe took good care of his family by leaving and I support him for doing that. Whether he stayed here or left his career would be over. For his family's sake he's got much more dough in the bank because of his decision to leave. Where are all the people who wanted us to put the high offer on the table for Smith or Boss? All it did was tie up cap space for those team that could have been used on healthy players. That's the process JR goes through every year............balancing the salary cap among healthy players who can come together as a team to chase another title. Go Blue!!

Ruttiger711
01-06-2013, 12:43 PM
He took good care of his family by leaving and I support him for doing that. Whether he stayed here or left his career would be over. For his family's sake he's got much more dough in the bank because of his decision to leave. Where are all the people who wanted us to put the high offer on the table for Smith or Boss? All it did was tie up cap space for those team that could have been used on healthy players. That's the process JR goes through every year............balancing the salary cap among healthy players who can come together as a team to chase another title. Go Blue!!

Im not so sure - remember, the Giants didnt wnat to rush him back from injury and said it would be around 6 weeks before he would see the field. I think other than the money was that Philly was also telling him that he could play much MUCH earlier. People were fuming here that part of the reason we lost him was because our medical staff didnt know what they were doing.

Had he stayed, or at least nursed that knee like he should have I think he would have had a better shot at making something out of his career.

VBGiantsFan
01-06-2013, 05:41 PM
Brandon Jacobs :( - career essentially over
Manningham - played on 2nd best team in NFC. Larger salary than Nicks and Cruz. Not shoved under the Giants depth chart
Shockey - won a Superbowl with New Orleans. Saved his career after injury and replaced bt Boss
Steve Smith - agreed, stupid choice to leave
Bavaro (Was actually cut after the injury so really doesn't qualify, although he would of retired a Giant)
Plax - shot himslef. Thankful it wasnt accidental suicide. Jets wanted him Giants didnt
Gibril Wilson - HUGE salary yo leave
Kevin Boss - HUGE salary to leave
Goff - folowed the money. Got injured again. giants would not pay him
Aaron Ross - HUGE pay day
Tollefson - HUGE pay day (relative to what Giants would pay)
Cofield (Could of had another ring) - has had an excellent career. May get another rong this year
Tim Carter (Although he was traded) - sucked hete and everywherre else
Will Allen - sucked here too
William Joseph ? Can't remember if we released him or not - worse first round bust in Giants history. Didnt have a career





List of players that have done well for themselves:

Visanthe
Jurevicus
Ron Dayne
Dhani Jones
Freddy Robbins


Add on


Basically almost everyone that departs us in one way or another would give their pay check to be back in Giants blue.[/QUOTE]