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View Full Version : Our numbers with KP and without KP are staggering...



NYG4lifeNYK
01-05-2013, 11:57 PM
Found this on BBI.



I'm not sure KP is the difference, but... Big Blue Blogger (http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=5&handle=Big Blue Blogger) : 5:20 pm

...the results suggest that he has been pretty important:

Giants with KP, 2009-2012:
2009: 2-0
2010: 10-6
2011: 12-6
2012: 4-1
Total 28-13

Giants without KP, 2009-2012:
2009: 6-8
2010: 0-0
2011: 1-1
2012: 5-6
Total 12-15

Games where he started, but wasn't around long enough to figure in the outcome, are counted in the "without" category.

drewz
01-06-2013, 12:46 AM
Quick, let's fax this over and over to Giants HQ

NYG4lifeNYK
01-06-2013, 12:50 AM
Quick, let's fax this over and over to Giants HQ

lol, I'll get right on it !

gmen0820
01-06-2013, 01:18 AM
27 missed games, that's pretty significant.

FlyingTruck
01-06-2013, 01:46 AM
And yet some people on here think he's overrated and we should let him go. Does he come up with a lot of picks like Brown did this year? Nope. But he doesn't allow big plays like Brown and the rest of the secondary.

Toadofsteel
01-06-2013, 02:18 AM
I think we should keep him but we should try to negotiate something easier on the cap for us. KP has good synergy in our 3 safety set, since he can cover deep really well in that more FS capacity, Stevie can ball hawk it like nobody's business once that deep cover is taken care of, and Rolle/Hill can play nickel corner and play in the box.

We're definitely keeping Stevie and Hill going forward. If I was forced to choose between KP and Rolle, I'd rather keep KP, as we don't have a safety with the same skill set on our roster.

moosedrool
01-06-2013, 03:15 AM
27 missed games, that's pretty significant.

There's no doubt KP is a stud when healthy. But do you shell out the big bucks for a guy that has missed that many games in 5 years? That's the question the front office will have to answer.

G-Men Surg.
01-06-2013, 04:27 AM
Found this on BBI.



I'm not sure KP is the difference, but... Big Blue Blogger (http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=5&handle=Big Blue Blogger) : 5:20 pm

...the results suggest that he has been pretty important:

Giants with KP, 2009-2012:
2009: 2-0
2010: 10-6
2011: 12-6
2012: 4-1
Total 28-13

Giants without KP, 2009-2012:
2009: 6-8
2010: 0-0
2011: 1-1
2012: 5-6
Total 12-15

Games where he started, but wasn't around long enough to figure in the outcome, are counted in the "without" category.

That's what I've been saying all along. That's the reallity. Now, can we move foward with out him? I guess but he has been a " perfect fixure " on this D for quite a while, he brings that physical style of play so few players can brings every sunday. The down side ? He's not physically the same with all those injuries he has suffered in his tenure with the Giants. Add that he's often sidelined hurt making a tough decision for FO in signing him to a long term deal, taking in count the young Stevie Brown and Will Hill already contibuting on D. If it was up to me I would make it happen finding a way to lock him up to a 4 year deal but again it seems difficult with all the safeties on the roster and the actual cap.

Out of Exile
01-06-2013, 05:23 AM
I hope they lock him up...but I got a feeling he walks. Sucks.

EnragedYouth85
01-06-2013, 06:24 AM
He is a great player but how can you pay a man that has missed 27 games in 5 years?

M00KIE
01-06-2013, 07:01 AM
I don't think he justifies a large contract. Not to mention those with/without stats are very misleading. If he goes somewhere else, we're not replacing him with CC Brown or James Butler or Micheal Johnson. Obviously when you lose a starter, you're handicapping yourself. (usually anyways)

I'm not suggesting I want him to go or that he's a bad player...Just the durability...You can't shell out a ton of cash on a guy who has been injured that much(especially knee injuries).

EnragedYouth85
01-06-2013, 07:06 AM
I don't think he justifies a large contract. Not to mention those with/without stats are very misleading. If he goes somewhere else, we're not replacing him with CC Brown or James Butler or Micheal Johnson. Obviously when you lose a starter, you're handicapping yourself. (usually anyways)

I'm not suggesting I want him to go or that he's a bad player...Just the durability...You can't shell out a ton of cash on a guy who has been injured that much(especially knee injuries).

Plus were looking at moving TT back there anyways :)

giantyankee1976
01-06-2013, 09:18 AM
And yet some people on here think he's overrated and we should let him go. Does he come up with a lot of picks like Brown did this year? Nope. But he doesn't allow big plays like Brown and the rest of the secondary.

seriously the 3 safety look with him Brown and Rolle really worked. I have always like Kenny and of course his susceptibility injury has been his only major knock IMO.

love the guy when he suits up though.

Redeyejedi
01-06-2013, 09:44 AM
Been saying this for weeks. Everyone thinks because Brown causes turnovers he is automatically a better player Giants defense also gave up a TD less this season when he played. The best move for the giants is to cut rolle and resign both Brown and Phillips with that money. Phillips,Brown and Hill should be the Giants top 3 guys

Redeyejedi
01-06-2013, 09:54 AM
He is a great player but how can you pay a man that has missed 27 games in 5 years?Pretty easily it depends on money. If he will take a deal with activators were if he plays in 14 games, the next year gets guaranteed stuff like that. Im not sure how many teams will give out huge guaranteed dollars to him

BlueReign
01-06-2013, 12:22 PM
Been saying this for weeks. Everyone thinks because Brown causes turnovers he is automatically a better player Giants defense also gave up a TD less this season when he played. The best move for the giants is to cut rolle and resign both Brown and Phillips with that money. Phillips,Brown and Hill should be the Giants top 3 guys
You're really not a fan of Rolle? I can't figure out why no one else likes this guy. Care to shed a little light on that situation?

Buddy333
01-06-2013, 12:40 PM
Been saying this for weeks. Everyone thinks because Brown causes turnovers he is automatically a better player Giants defense also gave up a TD less this season when he played. The best move for the giants is to cut rolle and resign both Brown and Phillips with that money. Phillips,Brown and Hill should be the Giants top 3 guysThe only problem is how much do you give a guy that's missed that much time?

Buddy333
01-06-2013, 12:42 PM
You're really not a fan of Rolle? I can't figure out why no one else likes this guy. Care to shed a little light on that situation?Think he did rank as one of the worse Safeties in the league. Maybe misread it but maybe someone can post it.

NorwoodBlue
01-06-2013, 12:51 PM
KP missed nearly 50% of the games in the last four years, that's really going to hurt his value. If the Giants get lucky, they can keep him and Brown; but I don't see that happening. I think Will Hill is going to be a big deciding factor in this. The coaches have had a year to see him play, and to judge if he really is over his "character issues." If they're sold on Hill, then I think KP's value to the Giants drops dramatically, only because of the injury issues. Personally, I don't think you can have Hill sitting on the bench much longer, he's just got too much talent for that. My gut feeling is that the injuries have doomed KP, and he's not going to be offered the money he wants to stay.

moosedrool
01-06-2013, 12:54 PM
You're really not a fan of Rolle? I can't figure out why no one else likes this guy. Care to shed a little light on that situation?

The 2012 PFF pass coverage grade for Rolle was -5.8, ranked 81 out of 88 safeties who played enough snaps to qualify. Add in his salary cap killing huge salary and you have the reason why.

ShakeandBake
01-06-2013, 01:04 PM
Been saying this for weeks. Everyone thinks because Brown causes turnovers he is automatically a better player Giants defense also gave up a TD less this season when he played. The best move for the giants is to cut rolle and resign both Brown and Phillips with that money. Phillips,Brown and Hill should be the Giants top 3 guys

I disargee, KP is too injury prone and I don't want what happened to our CB corps this year to happen to our Safeties next year. I am a believer that having 3 capable safeties on the roster is a must because of some of the sets we run, and KP is just too unreliable unfortunately.

ShakeandBake
01-06-2013, 01:06 PM
Also I'd like to point out that I've noticed a lot of the same people in this thread wanting KP to get resigned are some of the same people who think Nicks is injury prone...makes absolutely no sense.

GiantFanatic55
01-06-2013, 02:36 PM
Been saying this for weeks. Everyone thinks because Brown causes turnovers he is automatically a better player Giants defense also gave up a TD less this season when he played. The best move for the giants is to cut rolle and resign both Brown and Phillips with that money. Phillips,Brown and Hill should be the Giants top 3 guys

This

Jtuck
01-06-2013, 02:40 PM
Rolle takes too many bad angles on those deep passes that went for big plays! He is all mouth and no action!

NYG4lifeNYK
01-06-2013, 02:40 PM
I am ABSOLUTELY willing to roll the dice on KP's health.


He had a FREAK injury his sophomore year but recovered better than any of us ever expected. He followed that up by starting all 16 games his 3rd season and 15 games in his 4th season.


I am a HUGE KP fan and for good reason. He is a key to our secondary. We also haven't seen what he can do when he gets involved more.

Redeyejedi
01-06-2013, 02:40 PM
I disargee, KP is too injury prone and I don't want what happened to our CB corps this year to happen to our Safeties next year. I am a believer that having 3 capable safeties on the roster is a must because of some of the sets we run, and KP is just too unreliable unfortunately.That wouldnt be it. This is also a very deep safety draft and id grab a rangy deep safety as insurance. Rolle is completely overpaid he needs to be moved

Redeyejedi
01-06-2013, 02:43 PM
You're really not a fan of Rolle? I can't figure out why no one else likes this guy. Care to shed a little light on that situation?Rolle freelances far to much. When there is a breakdown in zone he is the guy im looking for. Also takes poor angles. Rolle isnt a bad player necessarily but he is really overpaid

BlueReign
01-06-2013, 02:47 PM
Rolle freelances far to much. When there is a breakdown in zone he is the guy im looking for. Also takes poor angles. Rolle isnt a bad player necessarily but he is really overpaid Fair. I believe he freelances so much due to the poor coverage of the safety next to him (Stevie).

moosedrool
01-06-2013, 04:51 PM
Fair. I believe he freelances so much due to the poor coverage of the safety next to him (Stevie).

Totally disagree with blaming Stevie Brown. Rolle has been bad in pass coverage his whole career. That's why he was moved to safety. And I've seen him take many bad angles with KP in there too.

BlueReign
01-06-2013, 05:03 PM
Totally disagree with blaming Stevie Brown. Rolle has been bad in pass coverage his whole career. That's why he was moved to safety. And I've seen him take many bad angles with KP in there too.
Agree to disagree then, because Stevie gets beat too much for my liking. Rolle is a ball hawk as well, and I thing with KP back there as well he would be an even better ballhawk than SB, not to mention the intangibles he brings. With that being said, he is a little bit overpaid for what he has produced this far.

moosedrool
01-06-2013, 05:12 PM
Rolle is a ball hawk as well.

Rolle only has 17 INT's in 8 years. That is not a ball hawk.

slipknottin
01-06-2013, 05:19 PM
Fair. I believe he freelances so much due to the poor coverage of the safety next to him (Stevie).

What? lol. Rolle is always out of position, has been for years. Its not a new thing.

Why do you think the coaches always play him up in the box and stop letting him play deep?

jomo
01-06-2013, 05:22 PM
No question we are much better with KP on the field, the eyes don't lie. The question is, is he healthy enought to give a big contract?
Thankfully, the Giants have better insight on that point than their competitors.

TroyArcher
01-06-2013, 09:22 PM
The problem is he has missed 27 games the past four years.

M00KIE
01-07-2013, 06:21 AM
What? lol. Rolle is always out of position, has been for years. Its not a new thing.

Why do you think the coaches always play him up in the box and stop letting him play deep?

Because he's not afraid to stick his nose in and make a tackle. Not to say you're wrong about him not playing well deep, I agree..But he does have value the way he's being used.

M00KIE
01-07-2013, 06:23 AM
The 2012 PFF pass coverage grade for Rolle was -5.8, ranked 81 out of 88 safeties who played enough snaps to qualify. Add in his salary cap killing huge salary and you have the reason why.

...Obvously, he didn't play a traditional safety role. You'd be better off comparing his stats to LBers.

flimflam
01-07-2013, 09:27 AM
MICROFRACTURE KNEE SURGERY. That is no small thing. He's been okay on that knee for the most part of 2 years. He is getting older and is a free agent. He is looking for a pay day. Let some other team pay him and take that chance on the knee.

While I like KP and was hoping he'd become our poor man's Ed Reed, that never came to fruition even though he's been a solid Giant, it's time to move on. I fully expect Stevie Brown to be resigned and JR drafting a safety in the middle rounds-there are some intriguing safety prospects in this year's draft.

JB456
01-07-2013, 12:22 PM
MICROFRACTURE KNEE SURGERY. That is no small thing. He's been okay on that knee for the most part of 2 years. He is getting older and is a free agent. He is looking for a pay day. Let some other team pay him and take that chance on the knee.

While I like KP and was hoping he'd become our poor man's Ed Reed, that never came to fruition even though he's been a solid Giant, it's time to move on. I fully expect Stevie Brown to be resigned and JR drafting a safety in the middle rounds-there are some intriguing safety prospects in this year's draft.

How many teams are going to shell out big bucks on a player that missed 27 games or so in the last few years? I don't think he will be expensive to resign. You wouldn't even want him back if the Giants could get a team friendly contract?