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View Full Version : Rookies in playoffs



mike kennedy
01-06-2013, 06:12 PM
It's just the wild card games and I have seen alot of rookies entrusted by their coaches to go out and play their best today. I think T.C. has major issues with rookies. I don't know why but it's like they need to earn Toms respect. Toms got issues here and it had major impacts on why the Giants are not in the playoffs.
He should of sat Hicks and sat Bradshaw when he had the chance when they were not even 50%. That cost the Giants big time on offense. He says he has no clue why things ended like they did this year but after after 25 years coaching in the NFL, he should know!
His my way or the highway has cost him over the years.

mike kennedy
01-06-2013, 06:14 PM
It's just the wild card games and I have seen alot of rookies entrusted by their coaches to go out and play their best today. I think T.C. has major issues with rookies. I don't know why but it's like they need to earn Toms respect. Toms got issues here and it had major impacts on why the Giants are not in the playoffs.
He should of sat Hicks and sat Bradshaw when he had the chance when they were not even 50%. That cost the Giants big time on offense. He says he has no clue why things ended like they did this year but after after 25 years coaching in the NFL, he should know!
His my way or the highway has cost him over the years.



Why even play the draft game

Flip Empty
01-06-2013, 06:15 PM
NICKS

dave56dj
01-06-2013, 06:17 PM
exceptions not rules - and if youd like the gmen to start getting more top ten picks im sure coughlin will oblige by playing them. I realize not all of them are top ten but my god they ARE EXCEPTIONS not the rule.

ALLnygIN
01-06-2013, 06:21 PM
exceptions not rules - and if youd like the gmen to start getting more top ten picks im sure coughlin will oblige by playing them. I realize not all of them are top ten but my god they ARE EXCEPTIONS not the rule.

I think he was just saying maybe it would have been wise to use randle over nicks and let nicks heal up all those weeks he wasn't contriubuting becuase he was hurt. That deceission to play an injured vet over a rookie actually hurt us. I mean thats just one example. I don't think any of us expect every rookie to play every snap, but give them some play time. Not a snap here snap there type of stuff.

mike kennedy
01-06-2013, 06:23 PM
NICKS

Standcorrected

Diamondring
01-06-2013, 06:23 PM
Sometimes you have to look at the situation. The Skins and Seattle maybe need those rookies to step up right away and produce while we have other players like Bradsahw who is good so we may not need our rookie especially when he is not good at blocking.

ALLnygIN
01-06-2013, 06:24 PM
Sometimes you have to look at the situation. The Skins and Seattle maybe need those rookies to step up right away and produce while we have other players like Bradsahw who is good so we may not need our rookie especially when he is not good at blocking.

thats about right to.

dave56dj
01-06-2013, 06:29 PM
Yes i think randle and wilson could have seen some more time but they were worked into the season slowly as most rookies are. Usually kids play if they are top ten talents or their is a lack of personnel. The giants had experienced talented vets in front of both. Yes hakeem was hurt but i can understand there going with nicks even banged up. I would have liked to have seen D wilson way more too but again they are watching practices and not us and AB had 4.6 a carry and nice year along with AB2.

Im just saying comparing RG3 and the running back situation of the skins is a far cry from what our situation was.

mike kennedy
01-06-2013, 06:30 PM
I think he was just saying maybe it would have been wise to use randle over nicks and let nicks heal up all those weeks he wasn't contriubuting becuase he was hurt. That deceission to play an injured vet over a rookie actually hurt us. I mean thats just one example. I don't think any of us expect every rookie to play every snap, but give them some play time. Not a snap here snap there type of stuff.

example

Cruz was the best receiver in camp in 2010 (led NFL in receiving during preseason) and look how little he played that year.

mike kennedy
01-06-2013, 06:32 PM
I think TC has a weak vision on all rookies. He goes with "proven percentage"!

dave56dj
01-06-2013, 06:35 PM
Tough to play when you are on season ending IR as cruz was in 10 when he ripped up preseason third stringers (tough to call that a proven commidity too).

Hosley saw plenty of time this year - because he showed flashes and b/c we had a need at nickel and boundary corner. Hill saw time at safety too. AS did smith his rookie year - boss in his - AB in his and then of course eli (top ten) and hakeem.

Couglin will play you if he thinks you are ready and the other options aren't better

ALLnygIN
01-06-2013, 06:38 PM
Tough to play when you are on season ending IR as cruz was in 10 when he ripped up preseason third stringers (tough to call that a proven commidity too).

Hosley saw plenty of time this year - because he showed flashes and b/c we had a need at nickel and boundary corner. Hill saw time at safety too. AS did smith his rookie year - boss in his - AB in his and then of course eli (top ten) and hakeem.

Couglin will play you if he thinks you are ready and the other options aren't better


You pretty much nailed it right there. Although, I was dissapointed with the way they handled randle and wilson.

ALLnygIN
01-06-2013, 06:39 PM
but also, he at one point he put deihl in over locklear when locklear was playing much better ball.

G-MANning4Life
01-06-2013, 07:31 PM
I agree that our season may have looked different if some of our rookies had more of an opportunity to play from week to week, but is that something that will ultimately change with Tom at the helm? I think not. I just wish TC would be more consistent with his rules. When Vets aren't playing well, they can sit as well, especially when they were off all season long (C. Webster for example).

TroyArcher
01-06-2013, 07:52 PM
Alot of you have a very short memory. In the Giants last two SB runs rookies played a major role - Steve Smith, Kevin Boss, Hynoski, Bradshaw, Aaron Ross... You questioning TC is laughable. How many SB rings do you have?

TroyArcher
01-06-2013, 07:54 PM
I think TC has a weak vision on all rookies. He goes with "proven percentage"!

He goes with the best players.

BigBlueAllDay
01-06-2013, 08:13 PM
Tough to play when you are on season ending IR as cruz was in 10 when he ripped up preseason third stringers (tough to call that a proven commidity too).

Hosley saw plenty of time this year - because he showed flashes and b/c we had a need at nickel and boundary corner. Hill saw time at safety too. AS did smith his rookie year - boss in his - AB in his and then of course eli (top ten) and hakeem.


Couglin will play you if he thinks you are ready and the other options aren't better

Despite the flashy preseason of 2010, Cruz did not get much playing time for his short 2010 season. He wasn't injured in preseason, just after a couple of games into the season. Hosley saw plenty of time due to injuries to Webster,Prince this season. Heck, even Tryon got playing time at CB. Hill saw decent time after K. Phillips got hurt and when the Giants had a huge lead late in the game. AB and K. Boss did not see decent times in their rookie season until after D. Ward and Shockey got injured late in the 2007 season. D. Wilson in his rookie season has more than 3x carries of Bradshaw in 2007 that include the playoff games. Hakeem Nicks, yes, first round pick and because the Giants were in dire need of a No.1 WR after Hixon proved he could not fulfill the expectations of that role after Burress' self-exit from the team. Eli, yes, another first-round pick and so much was invested to get him while Kurt Warner was heading out the door.

mike kennedy
01-06-2013, 08:32 PM
Sometimes you have to look at the situation. The Skins and Seattle maybe need those rookies to step up right away and produce while we have other players like Bradsahw who is good so we may not need our rookie especially when he is not good at blocking.

Bradshaw was pretty hurt in 5 or 6 games as we could see watching the games but TC has a double standard with some players especially AB.

mike kennedy
01-06-2013, 08:38 PM
Despite the flashy preseason of 2010, Cruz did not get much playing time for his short 2010 season. He wasn't injured in preseason, just after a couple of games into the season. Hosley saw plenty of time due to injuries to Webster,Prince this season. Heck, even Tryon got playing time at CB. Hill saw decent time after K. Phillips got hurt and when the Giants had a huge lead late in the game. AB and K. Boss did not see decent times in their rookie season until after D. Ward and Shockey got injured late in the 2007 season. D. Wilson in his rookie season has more than 3x carries of Bradshaw in 2007 that include the playoff games. Hakeem Nicks, yes, first round pick and because the Giants were in dire need of a No.1 WR after Hixon proved he could not fulfill the expectations of that role after Burress' self-exit from the team. Eli, yes, another first-round pick and so much was invested to get him while Kurt Warner was heading out the door.

If the Giants intended on not playing Eli that first year after all they gave ip for a few years in drafts, then Reese, coaches and owners and coaches deserved to be flogged, tarred and feathered at a public city square. Could someone come up with a stay sheet and show playing time for 1st and 2nd round pics this year? I bet we are on the bottom of the list. If the GMEN had no faith on Wilson. Then they had another bad and wasted number 1 draft pick and they didn't do their homework.

mike kennedy
01-06-2013, 08:43 PM
Tough to play when you are on season ending IR as cruz was in 10 when he ripped up preseason third stringers (tough to call that a proven commidity too).

Hosley saw plenty of time this year - because he showed flashes and b/c we had a need at nickel and boundary corner. Hill saw time at safety too. AS did smith his rookie year - boss in his - AB in his and then of course eli (top ten) and hakeem.

Couglin will play you if he thinks you are ready and the other options aren't better

Cruz Played in 5 games that year and he had a head injury which the giants chose to keep him on IR even though he was ready to come back.

mike kennedy
01-06-2013, 08:52 PM
He goes with the best players.

WRONG! He goes with "already proven" players and not the best players. He is not a fan of the unknown and goes with percentages, which has turned around and bit him in the *++ a few times.

I am a TC fan but after 25 years coaching and having no idea of what went wrong at the end of this season? That does not cut it. history repeats itself with Tom, they either have second season halfs which collapse or improve but a guy who goes with percentages should look at his record for second half collapses because he excels at having teams which go south at that time of year.

Drez
01-06-2013, 09:09 PM
If the Giants intended on not playing Eli that first year after all they gave ip for a few years in drafts, then Reese, coaches and owners and coaches deserved to be flogged, tarred and feathered at a public city square. Could someone come up with a stay sheet and show playing time for 1st and 2nd round pics this year? I bet we are on the bottom of the list. If the GMEN had no faith on Wilson. Then they had another bad and wasted number 1 draft pick and they didn't do their homework.
How is letting your players develop at a natural pace not showing faith in them?

Also, we draft more around how good a player can be, not how good a player is right now​.

ELI_Iz_God
01-06-2013, 09:26 PM
He goes with the best players.

Really? cuz when David (turnsile) Diehl got hurt and Locklear outperformed him x3..he went right back to DD. so much for best player. It stood out to me as hypocritcal when TC stated he goes with the hot hand. Maybe I'm the only one who noticed this....guess I pay attention to detail or something..go figure.

Sean Montemayor
01-07-2013, 12:46 AM
49

Sean Montemayor
01-07-2013, 12:46 AM
50. Ha. Goodnight.

EnragedYouth85
01-07-2013, 01:45 AM
Bradshaw was pretty hurt in 5 or 6 games as we could see watching the games but TC has a double standard with some players especially AB.

Maybe his wife has a tattoo of him wearing an AB jersey.. lol

dave56dj
01-07-2013, 01:54 AM
Cruz was on the IR with a hammy - no head injury.

Drez
01-07-2013, 07:33 AM
Cruz Played in 5 games that year and he had a head injury which the giants chose to keep him on IR even though he was ready to come back.
He had a hamstring injury that would have kept him out at least 6 weeks. An independent doctor reviewed the case and said the Giants were in the right for putting him on IR.

Drez
01-07-2013, 07:35 AM
Really? cuz when David (turnsile) Diehl got hurt and Locklear outperformed him x3..he went right back to DD. so much for best player. It stood out to me as hypocritcal when TC stated he goes with the hot hand. Maybe I'm the only one who noticed this....guess I pay attention to detail or something..go figure.
Diehl was ready to go for a week or two before he took over for Locklear. They put Diehl back in after Locklear had been struggling for a few weeks.

Buddy333
01-07-2013, 07:39 AM
Another myth. This ranks up there with the one that says Eli plays better on the road.

GameTime
01-07-2013, 08:07 AM
if you think the Giants troubles were becausre they didnt play their rookies then............

Toadofsteel
01-07-2013, 08:26 AM
If TC truly does play the "better" player, then what he's basically saying is that a 100% Wilson is worse than a 60% Bradshaw. Hell, he's even saying that Wilson is worse than a guy off the street. I could understand Randle being kept on the bench with Cruz and Hixon still on our roster and largely unhurt all season (though Cruz got shaken up a lot). But after AB2 went down, it looked like we were going to finally unbench Wilson, who does fantastically in New Orleans. And then he makes one rookie mistake on a block (and he doesn't even miss the assignment, he just got trucked), and is instabenched for Lumpkin.

Also, TC is saying that even though Tuck is largely a non-factor at this point and Osi for the bulk of the season was more of a detriment to the team with his overpursuing, that Tracy and Ojomo weren't even worth rotational snaps. The DL is a unit much more suited to rotational play than other positions.

And don't get me started on DD...

ALLnygIN
01-07-2013, 11:21 AM
if you think the Giants troubles were becausre they didnt play their rookies then............

I understand your point and would normally tend to agree with you... but at no point in the season did I see the advantage of having Nicks play injured instead of Randle, in fact that was one of the Giants troubles for not playing a rookie. it was clear that Nicks should not have been out there playing 90% of the time this season.

jomo
01-07-2013, 12:28 PM
It's just the wild card games and I have seen alot of rookies entrusted by their coaches to go out and play their best today. I think T.C. has major issues with rookies. I don't know why but it's like they need to earn Toms respect. Toms got issues here and it had major impacts on why the Giants are not in the playoffs.
He should of sat Hicks and sat Bradshaw when he had the chance when they were not even 50%. That cost the Giants big time on offense. He says he has no clue why things ended like they did this year but after after 25 years coaching in the NFL, he should know!
His my way or the highway has cost him over the years.You sound like a guy who could a great head coach some day.

Mercury
01-07-2013, 12:38 PM
After Matt Dodge, I'm surprised TC ever allows a rookie to play again.

tdawg1413
01-07-2013, 12:41 PM
I thought Wilson and Randle could have played more, especially Wilson. Hixon played very well this year at the third spot and Brown stepped up as the second back. Either way, both will be big parts of the offense next year.

mike kennedy
01-07-2013, 04:09 PM
You sound like a guy who could a great head coach some day.

Only in the "Armchair Position"!

BigBlue wins
01-07-2013, 04:37 PM
I stopped reading after I read Hicks

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 05:03 PM
Cruz is a bad example of the giants not playing rookies, Cruz was not ready to be a big time player. Even in year 2 he wasent ready. Took him at least half the season to really start making the correct adjustments and Eli knowing where he would be.